President Trump Suggests Kurds Deliberately Releasing ISIS Militants To Draw U.S. Back Into Syria
[guest post by Dana]
Given U.S. troop withdrawal last week, it seems inevitable that Islamic State affiliates and supporters would begin to escape their confines during the ensuing chaos:
More than 800 suspected IS detainees escaped the Ayn Issa camp in northern Syria on Sunday, Kurdish forces said in a statement, five days into Turkey’s military incursion into the region.
Jelal Ayaf, co-chair of Ayn Issa camp, told local media that 859 people “successfully escaped” the section of the camp holding foreign nationals. He also said that attacks were already being carried out by “sleeper cells” that had emerged from inside the camp, which holds IS prisoners, internally displaced persons (IDPs), and families or affiliates of IS fighters. While some of the escaped could be recaptured, he described the situation in the camp as “very volatile.”
[F]ive ISIS militants successfully fled from Jirkin prison in Qamishli. Turkish shelling was blamed for their escape.
After Fox News anchor and a co-host of Fox & Friends, Brian Kilmeade continued to criticize Trump’s decision to pull U.S. troops from Syria, Trump suggested that Kurdish forces may be deliberately releasing ISIS militants as a way to regain U.S. support and presence in northern Syria:
….Kurds may be releasing some to get us involved. Easily recaptured by Turkey or European Nations from where many came, but they should move quickly. Big sanctions on Turkey coming! Do people really think we should go to war with NATO Member Turkey? Never ending wars will end!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) October 14, 2019
Meanwhile, the Kurds have turned to Damascus and Russia for help in pushing back Turkish forces:
Kurdish troops turned to the Syrian government and Russia for help Sunday, according to a Kurdish military official, in a move that could increase Russian President Vladimir Putin’s influence in Syria, deal a substantial blow to the Kurds’ ambitions of independence in the region, and be seen as a win for Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.
The announcement represents a major shift in alliances for Syria’s Kurds, who were longtime partners with the U.S. in the fight against ISIS. The decision also sets up a potential clash between Turkey and the Syrian government and raises the possibility of a resurgent Islamic State group.
“Nobody supports us. This is why we made an agreement with the Russians and the Syrian government,” said Ismat Sheik Hassan, a Kurdish official who leads the Kobani Military Council.
Mazloum Abdi, the commander in chief of the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces, wrote in an article for Foreign Policy on Sunday that “we know that we would have to make painful compromises with Moscow and Bashar al-Assad if we go down the road of working with them.”
“But if we have to choose between compromises and the genocide of our people, we will surely choose life for our people,” he said.
(Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.)
–Dana
Hello.
Dana (05f22b) — 10/14/2019 @ 12:03 pmOh Putin got a new ally too huh. He really is benefiting an awful lot from this mess that makes the USA look awful, screws up NATO, gains a grater Russian foothold, and even helps Iran screw with Saudi Arabia (Russian energy competitor).
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm
Dustin (6d7686) — 10/14/2019 @ 12:04 pmSomeone is playing 14-dimensional chess here, but it isn’t our Great Leader.
He’s just one of the pawns.
Dave (1bb933) — 10/14/2019 @ 12:14 pmWow, he really did do this in the stupidest way possible. Even if he’s right that they’re doing this on purpose why wasn’t there a plan for entirely foreseeable consequence? How freaking incompetent is this guy?!?!
Time123 (ca85c9) — 10/14/2019 @ 12:20 pmto make matters worse, after his stupidly executed decision he went golfing??!
Time123 (ca85c9) — 10/14/2019 @ 12:22 pmAnyone else here have a job where their boss expects them to work hard on big problems when they pop up? What a weak lazy jerk.
If he would golf all day, every day, we’d be a lot better off.
Dave (1bb933) — 10/14/2019 @ 12:28 pmI can’t wait til we get back to a president who communicates through the press, runs every announcement through pollsters and focus groups first, and follows whatever the smartest guys in the room are saying.
That way, our prestige will be restored and we won’t commit foreign policy blunders like, for example, the Iraq war.
Munroe (d6175a) — 10/14/2019 @ 12:33 pm@7 Munroe, I can’t decide if your point is
1. This is a mistake on par with the 2nd Iraq war.
or
2. Since other presidents have made mistakes in the past it’s pointless to ever criticize a mistake now or in the future.
Can you help me understand which of the equally silly points you intended?
Time123 (ea2b98) — 10/14/2019 @ 12:39 pm@8: Time, as you don’t seem to be focused on criticizing the mistake but instead how the mistake was executed, those silly points are your silly points. Go wrestle with them.
Munroe (d6175a) — 10/14/2019 @ 12:46 pmTrump is a lying POS, less believable than the media. And of course Erdogan would want ISIS fighters to escape and rearm. They’re his Islamist buddies and he’s fine as long as they stay in Syria and make trouble for Assad, the Kurds, and us.
nk (dbc370) — 10/14/2019 @ 12:46 pmTrump, a half-hour ago:
Dana (05f22b) — 10/14/2019 @ 12:49 pmErdogan finally called Trump’s bluff after Trump repeatedly called Erdogan’s bluff, but Erdogan waited until for international forces to wipe out the ISIS caliphate:
Dana (05f22b) — 10/14/2019 @ 1:03 pmI can’t get past the unfiltered stupidity of “never-ending wars will end.”
Leviticus (efada1) — 10/14/2019 @ 1:05 pmThe Kurds’ Prisons and Detention Camps for ISIS Members, Explained
This is a pretty up-to-date backgrounder, with good links to a number of earlier stories:
Guns, Filth and ISIS: Syrian Camp Is ‘Disaster in the Making’
Horrid Conditions in Syria Camp Where ISIS Families Fled Risk Fostering Extremism
Basically ISIS and their families were like colonists in the territories where they tried to establish their “Islamic State”. Having defeated and imprisoned the fighters in prison facilities, the Kurds guard an estimated 70,000 of their wives, girlfriends and children in a huge refugee camp. Many of them are radicalized, and their home countries do not want them back, so they have nowhere else to go.
Trump claimed that US had removed “high-value” militants, but that was essentially a lie. The US took custody of only two captured ISIS militants before the Kurds reciprocated our refusal to cooperate and told us to sod off.
Dave (1bb933) — 10/14/2019 @ 1:06 pmSo what is your point? Mine was that Trump’s poor execution made this into a huge mess.
Time123 (ea2b98) — 10/14/2019 @ 1:10 pmI mean seriously and snark aside, your comment is sort of snarky / funny but do you have an actual point?
Time123 (ea2b98) — 10/14/2019 @ 1:13 pmThis is a pretty poignant photo of a military cemetery where Kurds who died fighting ISIS (i.e. *our* enemies) in Kobani are buried.
But they didn’t help us at Normandy, so screw them.
Dave (1bb933) — 10/14/2019 @ 1:18 pmGraham & Cherney are into their ‘mushroom cloud’ act; all the cablers, nightly, two-drink minimum; Trump just imposed sanctions via Twitter. And so it goes…
DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/14/2019 @ 1:22 pmContrary to Trump’s claims that the Kurds are releasing ISIS prisoners to lure us back into Syria, Foreign Policy is reporting that Turkish-backed forces are releasing ISIS prisoners:
Dana (05f22b) — 10/14/2019 @ 1:24 pmBusiness Insider: Trump has delivered what Russia wants in Syria — at zero cost — and ‘Putin likely can’t believe his luck’
Dave (1bb933) — 10/14/2019 @ 1:33 pmTrump is a colossal idiot, and his reckless foreign policy will have reverberations for years to come. But a very small part of me is tickled that he is using the language of the left (and the Rand Paul libertarian right) to defend his bad decisions:
I hope nobody with one of those “End
JVW (54fd0b) — 10/14/2019 @ 1:37 pmlessthis war!” bumper stickers on their car is criticizing the President for these blunders.He forgot to preface that with “In my great and unmatched wisdom…”, but I guess he was in a hurry.
Q: Is he going to impose sanctions on himself, as a person “contributing to Turkey’s destabilizing actions”?
Dave (1bb933) — 10/14/2019 @ 1:39 pmAs I understand it, the critters in Congress never gave their authorization for our troops to be in Syria, but now they’re working like the devil to prevent their extraction.
Typical.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/14/2019 @ 1:44 pmthey never take responsibility for anything, they abjured the 2002 authorization, as if they had never signed it, podesta and gates, protested in their memoirs, but not related any on the record deliberations,
narciso (d1f714) — 10/14/2019 @ 1:48 pmTrump should have imposed sanctions on the Turkish officials before he removed the handful of US Soldiers frok the region. He is such an idiot. It is completely impossible that he played Turkey into taking an offensive posture that the world wouldn’t let go unnoticed allowing him to be aggressive towards a NATO ally.
BuDuh (f0cd3e) — 10/14/2019 @ 2:02 pmthere are already were sanctions, that’s why their currency is crashing plus Charles ponzi would marvel at how jury rigged their economy is,
narciso (d1f714) — 10/14/2019 @ 2:04 pm#21
My irony meter broke when liberal/left castigate Trump for withdrawing… Pepperidge farm remembers the anti-war crowd during the Bush/Obama years and can’t quite square their outrage today.
whembly (fd57f6) — 10/14/2019 @ 2:10 pmI’d place sanctions on Adam Schiff… https://youtu.be/M4ONTvw_dac
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/14/2019 @ 2:10 pmI didn’t like him since I saw him on ’24 a decade ago,
narciso (d1f714) — 10/14/2019 @ 2:16 pmThat is not a small number. That’s a small city of radicalized wives, girlfriends, and children. What would be the optimal plan here? Is this really sustainable with the conflict we’re seeing between the Kurds and Turks?
And to hopefully avoid the inevitable; I’m not advocating releasing ISIS fighters, nor advocating for the release of any other groups or individuals who would be a threat to peace-loving people everywhere. The question is no more or less than I’ve stated above. Agreeing that for the moment that this is a bad situation if anyone chooses to respond can I get more than some version of “I don’t know but it’s all Trump’s fault and the problem will be solved by impeaching him”?
Frosty, Fp (f27e97) — 10/14/2019 @ 2:35 pmSince Pat’s recent declaration that we shouldn’t post wall-o-texts, I’ll just link the article with a snippet.
Yes, its from a Federalist, but I believe it’s worth reading and debating:
whembly (fd57f6) — 10/14/2019 @ 2:47 pmhttps://thefederalist.com/2019/10/14/why-trump-is-absolutely-right-to-get-u-s-troops-out-of-syria/
30… should be an interesting read.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/14/2019 @ 2:53 pmYeah, sanctions, that’ll stop the Turks.
Rip Murdock (657d44) — 10/14/2019 @ 2:58 pmHe is in the abstract correct about China, but
Kishnevi (65c56e) — 10/14/2019 @ 2:58 pm1) ISIS as generator of terror is, and will be, an ongoing threat to the US. And as long as oil in important to the world economy, the Middle East will not be a “strategic backwater”.
2) Turkey, Russia, and Iran not balancing each other out. They are the coalition now, and it’s in their own interests to counter, not each other, but Saudi Arabia and the US.
“Trump can pull out of the Middle East, conserve his resources, and focus all his attention to the growing menace of China, that is more farsighted a move than any post-Cold War American president thus far, and should be applauded.”
Trump literally just sent 2800 troops to Saudi Arabia at the same time all this is happening in Syria.
Davethulhu (fab944) — 10/14/2019 @ 2:59 pmDavethulhu, they know. Their goal is not to win, but to muddy the waters and make it so it’s not obvious Trump was not behaving in our best interests, but in Russia’s. If there’s even an argument on his side, then it’s not so bad. If there’s doubt about information, it’s not so bad. If Code Pink was right all along, not so bad. But Trump is no isolationist many of these guys were saying the literal opposite of what they are saying today. We’ve gone from Muslim Ban to ‘think of the ISIS Children’
Dustin (877abe) — 10/14/2019 @ 3:02 pmThat trick won’t work this time. Usually when one partisan side is hypocritical, it can say the other side is also being hypocritical, because they both oppose eachother on everything. But in this case, there was simply no reason to promise a ‘Safe Zone’ to our Kurdish allies if they demolished their fortificiations, and then abandon and betray them, while complaining it’s not our fault ISIS is getting free. That makes no sense and is a gift to our enemies. If Trump was such a thoughtful man of peace he could have told the Kurds this and left intelligently and without favoring the Islamist Turkish and Russia (and even Iran if you think about it).
Dustin (877abe) — 10/14/2019 @ 3:05 pmTrump’s now decided to keep the 1,000 troops that remain in Syria, in Syria.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/14/2019 @ 3:06 pmIt turns out this is not the first or only refugee camp in the Middle East.
Ideally, we would work with regional partners and humanitarian organizations to find permanent homes for the people there who are willing to live in peace. That will not be all of them, and it may not even be most of them.
For the remainder, we do our best to provide the most humane conditions possible and make sure they are no threat to anyone else. Identifying and removing (to more strict confinement) those who are particularly violent and irreconcilable would probably be wise.
Dave (1bb933) — 10/14/2019 @ 3:18 pm…where we now (thanks to him) have zero (0) allies.
Pure genius!
Dave (1bb933) — 10/14/2019 @ 3:24 pmTrump changed his mind again guys. Too bad he didn’t play this out with the military strategists before deciding that he wants our troops in Syria after all.
Dustin (877abe) — 10/14/2019 @ 3:27 pm#34
Maybe “strategic backwater” is too strong… but I don’t think he’s quite overselling it either.
All you have to do is look at the recent Iranian attack on that Saudi oil refinery…where it knocked out the largest refinery that knocked down the productivity by half. Just 10 years ago, that would’ve caused global panic…such that we’d be seeing 5$ a gallon or more now. You can thank that frackers that made the US net exporters for that.
All the more reason to get out of that love triangle, imo. Otherwise, we’re risking a real war against a NATO ally.
whembly (fd57f6) — 10/14/2019 @ 3:28 pmOver the past week, several commenters here have said (and I’ll paraphrase) “Trump betrayed the Kurds” which implies
there’s some sort of an agreement in effect. What is this agreement?
Does an instance of our troops fighting alongside another force somehow forge an obligation to continue this in perpetuity? Logically, the answer has to be no. So… just what was the nature of the agreement that is needed for there to have been a “betrayal”?
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/14/2019 @ 3:34 pmOT-
Today’s Biden Gaffe:
“No one in my family will have an office in the White House.” – Joe Biden.
Except your wife, eh, Joey-Bee?
Idiot.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/14/2019 @ 3:36 pmwell we know examples where this can go wrong, anyone remember Beirut, onstensibly we were neutral, but we were supporting the Gemayel govt, against various factions, including the Iranian proxy that is Hezbollah,
narciso (d1f714) — 10/14/2019 @ 3:38 pmSo the Kurds found some dirt on Biden?
Dave (1bb933) — 10/14/2019 @ 3:39 pmOMG the Kurds will rush into the arms of Putin. America is finished. What will we do without the Kurds in OUR arms? We were so happy together. it was “USA and kurds sitting in a tree. K-I-S-S-I-N-G.” And now we’re jilted lovers, and the Kurds are with Putin now. They’re in HIS arms. Sads.
Just when you thought people couldn’t get anymore childish, its romper room time again. These ISIS fighters are from Europe. The Euros didn’t even care enough to pay for their prison. So now, they’re the Euros responsibility. How sad that the USA can’t do everything for everybody.
rcocean (1a839e) — 10/14/2019 @ 3:41 pmIf Syria is so important, let Miss Lindsey and Nancy declare war. Given that neither of them care about the USA and what’s going on here, I also suggest Trump turn the war over to them. Maybe we can make MIttens a General and he can over take charge.
rcocean (1a839e) — 10/14/2019 @ 3:44 pmNews: Trump is imposing sanctions on Turkey to stop any war crimes and for humanitarian reasons.
Nevertrumper: that is not good enough. We must bomb Istanbul. We must increase troops in Syria. And if anything goes wrong, we must blame Trump! But if it turns out OK, we will blame Trump anyway for not doing it sooner.
rcocean (1a839e) — 10/14/2019 @ 3:51 pmnever in the course of human events have so many, had so many opinions, with so little information.
rcocean (1a839e) — 10/14/2019 @ 3:55 pm@43 The Kurds removed their forces from the border (2 months ago) because we told them we were holding a safe zone there. Then, without warning the Kurds to allow them to secure their borders again, Trump withdrew the forces holding the promised safe zone. There was a post about this last week, I think you commented on the thread.
Nic (896fdf) — 10/14/2019 @ 3:56 pmNevertrumper: that is not good enough. We must bomb Istanbul. We must increase troops in Syria. And if anything goes wrong, we must blame Trump! But if it turns out OK, we will blame Trump anyway for not doing it sooner.
The threat of brushfires is way too heightened for you to irresponsibly burn down so many strawmen, rcocean.
JVW (54fd0b) — 10/14/2019 @ 3:56 pmWasn’t it you that wrote a few days ago that the “TTP” [sic] was a trade agreement with China?
Dave (1bb933) — 10/14/2019 @ 4:01 pmhttps://www.flagsimporter.com/kurdistan-flag-3x5ft-poly?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIlfWNje6c5QIVA2yGCh3PNwLCEAkYASABEgJrZPD_BwE
mg (8cbc69) — 10/14/2019 @ 4:05 pmviva kurd nation
Make Constantinople Great Again
mg (8cbc69) — 10/14/2019 @ 4:06 pmPerhaps Narciso can offer some insights vis-a-vis the Bay of Pigs.
Dave (1bb933) — 10/14/2019 @ 4:21 pmWhy didn’t the kurds execute the isis terrorists like we did at mai lai and kent state?
lany (88995d) — 10/14/2019 @ 4:25 pm@38 I’d like to see some more information on that but I don’t think it means what’s Dave and Dustin think it means.
It looks like the WaPo has something about 1000 troops staying in region. It sounds like we’re redeploying troops from the conflict area in the north to an area not between the Turks and the Kurds.
Don’t worry, you still get to be upset about the Kurds, the ISIS detention facilities, and Putin’s happiness. And have cheer, now you get to argue Trump isn’t “bringing them home” as promised. It’s a win-win for NeverTrump.
Frosty, Fp (85a156) — 10/14/2019 @ 4:28 pm“ Perhaps Narciso can offer some insights vis-a-vis the Bay of Pigs.”
No, I wouldn’t bother narciso with what appears to be a ridiculous analogy. We funded, provided training and logistical support through the CIA before Kennedy pulled the rug out from under the rebel Cubans. These PKK-allied Kurds are grassroots, they were fighting there for many years before we showed up, and they will continue fighting for many years in the future.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/14/2019 @ 4:49 pm51… non-answer…
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/14/2019 @ 4:52 pm59… but I would never attempt to speak for narciso, he’s welcome to weigh in.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/14/2019 @ 4:53 pmThe owners of two Trump towers in Istanbul better improve security as they just became prime targets for the PKK.
Trump Towers, Istanbul, Sisli is a landmark in the historic city of Istanbul. With two towers rising in Mecidiyekoy, one of the city’s most vibrant areas, the property captures the utmost in luxury. The residential tower, just under 40 stories, consists of over 200 residences, and will feature the expansive layouts, meticulous eye for design and lavish finishes synonymous with the Trump name. Forest, city and Bosporus views will be extraordinary through the vista of floor-to-ceiling windows.
In addition, residents will enjoy a full service spa and fitness center, an indoor pool, a 24-hour doorman, a business center, and a vast range of additional amenities. The office tower, also 40 stories, will offer commercial luxury at its finest, with a private entrance, a beauty center, fitness area and pool for those working in the building. A luxury retail component of over 400,000-square-feet rests at the base of both towers, offering residents and visitors the best in retail and dining with personalized service incomparable to anything in Istanbul.
Rip Murdock (657d44) — 10/14/2019 @ 5:12 pm@60 He wanted something that would leave them vulnerable and promised to protect their vulnerability, then broke that promise.
It’s literally the dictionary definition of betrayl: https://www.dictionary.com/browse/betrayal
Nic (896fdf) — 10/14/2019 @ 5:19 pmHistory doesnt repeat, 1919, 1963, 1975 1991, but it does rhyme.
narciso (d1f714) — 10/14/2019 @ 5:20 pmMalcolm nance already suggested that nance, the most disreputable buds since jedse ventura
narciso (d1f714) — 10/14/2019 @ 5:21 pmNo loyalty.
nk (dbc370) — 10/14/2019 @ 5:36 pmNo honor.
Sodomy, venery, and venality.
Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin, and well-deserved too.
That is an answer. Perhaps one you don’t like or agree with but, if so, explain why.
DRJ (15874d) — 10/14/2019 @ 5:52 pmBreaking:
Rip Murdock (657d44) — 10/14/2019 @ 5:53 pmMcKinley to testify Wednesday; Trump’s campaign manager calls impeachment inquiry a ‘seditious conspiracy’
He was ambassador in afghanistan whennthijgs were going pearshaped, of course parscale is right.
narciso (d1f714) — 10/14/2019 @ 6:03 pmTrump is a seditious conspiracy.
nk (dbc370) — 10/14/2019 @ 6:10 pmIt runs in the family.
Granddaddy Trump was a draft-dodger and a brothel-keeper.
Daddy Trump was a draft-dodger and a war profiteer.
Daffodil is a draft-dodger and a venal degenerate.
America should be ashamed that he got even one vote.
Say, maybe Haiku has a point.
Does Trump have a literal contract with the Kurds that was notarized that he wouldn’t betray them when he negotiated that safe zone? No? Then it’s OK to kill the Kurds.
Does Trump have a literal contract with the voters that he won’t collude with Russia or obstruct justice or screw us over any way he can? No? Then it’s OK. With his fans.
Dustin (877abe) — 10/14/2019 @ 6:13 pmOne could say that basic morality is a form of a social obligation. When we start saying a very beloved and racially charged leader does not have those responsibilities, that’s historically not great.
Dustin (877abe) — 10/14/2019 @ 6:14 pmAnd you know what? Knowing what I know about Trump now, I believe the Russian hooker report in the Steele dossier. For one thing, those kind of women are “his type”. He married two of them and had very public liaisons with another two. But more significantly, he is “the type”. The type that would make dirty deals with Putin over dinner and snuggle up with a couple of hookers at bedtime.
nk (dbc370) — 10/14/2019 @ 6:25 pm@73 Now? You mean you went all the way through Russiagate not believing it but today, nay, this very hour you’ve seen the error of your ways and joined the faithful?
Frosty, Fp (f27e97) — 10/14/2019 @ 6:31 pmPretty much, yes, Frosty. Not necessarily this very hour, although it’s the first that I have articulated it. The switch clicked when I first heard of Trump’s perfidy to the Kurds. It was an epiphany. I realized clearly, beyond any doubt, that he has no soul.
nk (dbc370) — 10/14/2019 @ 6:41 pmSpeaking of literal contracts, here is an informative bit of research and opinion from 2018:
https://warontherocks.com/2018/06/the-roadmap-to-nowhere-manbij-turkey-and-americas-dilemma-in-syria/
I believe each side can pick their favorite quote to claim the author was a Trump-humper or a Nardless NeverTrump. My takeaway is that the Middle East has no perfect solutions.
BuDuh (f0cd3e) — 10/14/2019 @ 6:41 pmThats called a concussion, should get it lpoked at.
narciso (d1f714) — 10/14/2019 @ 6:42 pmMy takeaway is that the Middle East has no perfect solutions.
Obviously. But my takeaway is that Turkey is not necessarily the sort of ally we want as an ally.
Kishnevi (573b0b) — 10/14/2019 @ 6:56 pmIf not a concussion, then a slap in the face. The face of everything that makes America a country to be proud of.
A while back, the Sarah Jeong Times published an op-ed, under Vladimir Putin’s byline, deriding American exceptionalism. The orange slug has done all that is in his power to prove them right.
nk (dbc370) — 10/14/2019 @ 6:57 pm51…67… the U.S. is a signatory to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization and has allied itself with Turkey, for better or worse (it’s been for worse since Erdogan took power), as part of that. We have no formal alliance with the Kurds.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/14/2019 @ 7:00 pmBut my takeaway is that Turkey is not necessarily the sort of ally we want as an ally.
We don’t need them as an ally. We can make them a tributary. Make them do what we want instead of what they want. But it would take a strong leader to do that. A Fifth Avenue pimp is not up to the job.
nk (dbc370) — 10/14/2019 @ 7:01 pmI think you will enjoy the opinion piece in its entirety. It is very thorough on that thought and I wholeheartedly agree. But the author does point out that the Kurdish faction we aligned with is on our US list of terrorist organizations. Also probably not the sort of ally we want as an ally. But the US managed to get into bed with both of these groups.
BuDuh (f0cd3e) — 10/14/2019 @ 7:04 pm@71 A contract? Do you mean do we have something like a treaty with the Kurds? You know, one of those things we’ve got with the Turks?
Frosty, Fp (f27e97) — 10/14/2019 @ 7:05 pmAnd the mek was regarded as same, yet their political arm provides useful info, politics isnt bean bag over there.
narciso (d1f714) — 10/14/2019 @ 7:09 pm80 cntd…
And what about all those ISIS prisoners? I’ve read that most of the 10,000 plus prisoners being held by the Kurds are Euro citizens. The U.S. has been trying to get the Europeans to accept responsibility for their citizens, take them into custody and prosecute them. Why in Hell should this become America’s problem? If you recall, WE put our terrorist prisoners in Gitmo and most of the world – including much of old Europe – vilified us for it.
It’s time they stepped up.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/14/2019 @ 7:15 pmSyria. The ISIS prisoners should have been turned over to Syria. That’s the country whose laws they broke, whose citizens they murdered, whose territory they tried to seize, and … and … and that’s where they ARE! This “send them back to Europe” BS is nattering of an ignorant buffoon who needs Kellyanne to unzip him when he goes potty.
nk (dbc370) — 10/14/2019 @ 7:24 pmCol H…
Kishnevi (573b0b) — 10/14/2019 @ 7:25 pmI have heard exactly the opposite…that the vast majority of ISIS fighters are not from Europe but from other parts of the Mideast. (Would you really trust most Mideastern governments to keep them longterm?) Also, it seems the 10,000 figure includes the wives and kids of the fighters.
We (meaning grahan and co) gave these other syrian militias 500 million, dont know if it ended up in cypress
narciso (d1f714) — 10/14/2019 @ 7:27 pmEdit…
Kishnevi (573b0b) — 10/14/2019 @ 7:32 pmAccording to this, the 10,000 figure does not include family members, but that only 2,000 are from Europe, while the rest are from Iraq or Syria.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/14/isis-prisoners-are-escaping-from-camps-in-syria-amid-turkish-offensive.html
Here’s another take on the situation in Syria… Thomas Wictor… this fellow’s name rings a bell, I’m now researching why
https://social.quodverum.com/@ThomasWic/102962919525947116
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/14/2019 @ 7:37 pmHe grew up in venezuela, has rather unorthodox views. Dorsey takes him off twitter but keeps the black bloc, curious.
narciso (d1f714) — 10/14/2019 @ 7:52 pmI think Narciso used to link him.
He seems, er, unduly optimistic would be a polite way of saying it.
Kishnevi (d8763f) — 10/14/2019 @ 7:54 pmTurkey In The Straw: Trump orders Pence to Ankara on peace mission.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/14/2019 @ 8:01 pm89… it looks like you have the correct number, kishnevi, I was wrong. Here’s another take on the ISIS prisoners…
KEY TAKEAWAYS
1. Many ISIS terrorists ended up in camps being run by Syrian Kurds in northern Syria.
2. To the frustration of the U.S., the Europeans have shown no desire to take back their citizens.
3. Europe, not the U.S., should bear the primary responsibility with coming up with a solution about what to do with their jihadis.
https://www.heritage.org/terrorism/commentary/why-europe-refuses-take-back-captured-isis-fighters
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/14/2019 @ 8:02 pm“ He seems, er, unduly optimistic would be a polite way of saying it.”
He could very well be. But just a change of pace from the Adderall-addled news media and apparent Friends of Bill takes.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/14/2019 @ 8:06 pmYes, hes got some interesting as does montes bradley, but dorsey doesnt have tolerance for him either.
narciso (d1f714) — 10/14/2019 @ 8:10 pmI met the sr montes bradley on a number of occassions, hes a very versatile gent.
narciso (d1f714) — 10/14/2019 @ 8:11 pmOh really:
https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/465431-gabbard-rips-trumps-syria-decision-kurds-are-now-paying-the-price
narciso (d1f714) — 10/14/2019 @ 8:15 pmThe guy contributed to Russia Direct, a Kremlin propaganda site, he has a pro-Putin perspective on Ukraine, he is silent on to Putin’s victory in Syria and he is silent regarding the Iraqi Kurds, also our best Muslim ally in the Middle East. The guy is a pro-Putin hack.
Paul Montagu (00daa1) — 10/14/2019 @ 8:27 pmThe Coconut Dream was for the pullout before she was against it? A lot of that going around for a long time.
How come her skin tone varies by a full quarter turn of the light meter from video to video?
nk (dbc370) — 10/14/2019 @ 8:29 pmNow has she finished her tour in aceh, kopassus makes turkish forces seem like boys scouts
narciso (d1f714) — 10/14/2019 @ 8:40 pmPreparation for the Bay of Pigs operation began in March, 1960 and the abortive invasion was launched 13 months later.
We’ve not just been training and providing logistical support for the Kurds, we’ve been fighting alongside them, patrolling with them, sometimes bleeding with them in the field, for five years.
In terms of shared adversity, trust and each side putting their lives in the others’ hands, there is no comparison with the throw-away CIA black-op.
And the Cubans were fighting each other with insurgency and counter-insurgency for many years before the CIA started training the hapless exiles.
Dave (1bb933) — 10/14/2019 @ 9:54 pm.” In terms of shared adversity, trust and each side putting their lives in the others’ hands, there is no comparison with the throw-away CIA black-op.”
Yes, that’s just a bit of why your analogy doesn’t work. So… why did you suggest it, Dave?
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/14/2019 @ 10:19 pmBreaking:
NYT: Bolton Objected to Ukraine Pressure Campaign, Calling Giuliani ‘a Hand Grenade’
The effort to pressure Ukraine for political help provoked a heated confrontation inside the White House last summer that so alarmed John R. Bolton, then the national security adviser, that he told an aide to alert White House lawyers, House investigators were told on Monday.
…….
One of the most dramatic moments (Fiona Hill) described came in the July 10 meeting in Mr. Bolton’s office that included Mr. Sondland; Kurt D. Volker, then the special envoy for Ukraine; Rick Perry, the energy secretary; and two Ukrainian officials.
The purpose of the meeting was to talk about technical assistance to Ukraine’s national security council. The Ukrainians were eager to set up a meeting between Mr. Trump and Mr. Zelensky, who was elected on a promise to clean up corruption and resolve the country’s five-year war with Russian-armed separatists.
Mr. Bolton was trying to not commit to a meeting, according to Ms. Hill’s testimony. Mr. Sondland got agitated, Ms. Hill testified, and let out that there was an agreement with Mr. Mulvaney that there would be a meeting if Ukraine opened up the investigations the White House was seeking………
Rip Murdock (657d44) — 10/14/2019 @ 10:48 pmOT, I know, but heck, you just gotta laugh at this…
Tonight: Schiff says whistleblower testimony ‘might not be necessary’…
Two weeks ago, SNL: watch this– about 3:30 in:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiKrWUoTq4s
‘A whistleblower? Oh he gonna go missin’.” – ‘Quincy Maddox’
And I thought ‘Ain’t nuttin’ gonna happen’ couldn’t be topped… It’s the best spot on skit they’ve done since the Kavanaugh hearings cold open last year…
DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/14/2019 @ 11:42 pmSpeaking of Giuliani, he collected a cool half-mil from the indicted Mr. Parnas. It’s unlikely that that money came from Parnas’ own earnings, so the question is whether Giuliani’s big payday was from Firtash or “Foreign National 1”. Either way, Giuliani’s windfall has a smell to it.
Paul Montagu (00daa1) — 10/15/2019 @ 12:25 amThe US abandonment of the exiles, who we trained, but never actually fought side-by-side with, is generally considered a betrayal.
The US abandonment of the Kurds is worse in every respect, due to a longer and closer relationship. Hence it too is a betrayal, and in fact a far more profound and inexcusable betrayal.
Dave (1bb933) — 10/15/2019 @ 12:29 am“Not a single one of those Mexicans at the Bay of Pigs was with Colonel Travis and Davy Crockett at Los Alamos on D-Day.” — Typical Trump supporter
nk (dbc370) — 10/15/2019 @ 4:25 amAnd the US government of the time was warned that dealing with Russo-Syrian Cold War leftovers was not a viable long-term strategy in terms of dealing with ISIS or bringing a measure of stability to NE Syria and western Iraq.
Iraqi and Turkish Kurds warned you. Syrian Arabs who protested Assad warned you. Other NATO members warned you.
Syrian Kurds weren’t quite as loud or clear in their warnings because a lot of them “couldn’t complain”, as it were.
But no. Their warrior women are lovely and they occasionally drink and the SF guys trained with them and they wear US flags and aren’t big on the Allah Snackbar deliverances. All the bumf about an “anti-capitalist” community, the weird omnipresence of Apo in town squares and on classroom walls, the levelling of purportedly unreliable villages, the disappearances, the silencing of journalists, the closing of the border with Iraq to prevent Kurds from fleeing “liberated” rule under the PYG. These were just quirks.
Throw a mercurial dolt like Trump making policy by tweet and everyone feels betrayed.
It’s striking that people here think the SDF somehow speaks for “the Kurds”, as though they’ve won free and fair elections and don’t go about murdering political opponents. These same ideologues refused to negotiate with Ankara through Barzani and the KRG to establish a more representative political arrangement in areas under their control – and thought it was hilarious to attack Turkish and Iraqi positions and villages.
Apparently their leadership is now negotiating with Damascus.
We have seen how Damascus treats co-belligerents, much less “reconciled” rebels.
Ah well. It is good to know that sending SDF grunts to be cannon fodder for Assad and his cronies will be pro-Kurdish and shame the unshameable Trump.
Because that’s what matters here.
JP (24566b) — 10/15/2019 @ 4:54 amA good piece by the consistently pro-Trump WSJ, but they’re still not absolved for the lengths they’ve gone in defending the guy.
Paul Montagu (00daa1) — 10/15/2019 @ 5:05 amQuincy Maddox voted for Jill Stein.
urbanleftbehind (b8ba15) — 10/15/2019 @ 5:42 amAll the bumf about an “anti-capitalist” community, ….
bumf
/bəmf/
noun INFORMAL•BRITISH
useless or tedious printed information or documents.
Bowdlerized spelling in edited writing: b-u-m-p-h (See etymology below)
First Known Use of bumf: Circa 1889, in the meaning defined above.
History and Etymology for bumf: From “bumf”, toilet paper, short for bumfodder, from “bum” + “fodder”.
nk (dbc370) — 10/15/2019 @ 6:06 amFirst seen by your humble correspondent in the short story “The Man Who Hated Banks” by Michael Gilbert. 😉
nk (dbc370) — 10/15/2019 @ 6:09 amNk, re visiting your post #100 about hula princess…she might be one of these.
urbanleftbehind (b8ba15) — 10/15/2019 @ 6:17 amThe various factions of the Kurds and other militias were fighting for their lives in Iraq and Syria and the U.S. provided assistance that helped them prevail. The Kurds will continue to squabble amongst themselves for land and ideology. They’re not close to a provisional governing structure stage in their fight for liberation.
Again, Turkey, for better or worse, is our NATO ally.
We should wish the Kurds well and continue to provide assistance to the Kurdish people where appropriate, but IMO, their liberation is not worth the life of one American soldier.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/15/2019 @ 6:29 amOh, that’s a witch’s daughter who is not herself a trained witch. Who inherited the face-changing ability but does not consciously control it. There’s a popular Greek song about one, much older than the Seinfeld episode. Go ahead and play it, it’s a nice tune even if you don’t understand the words.
nk (dbc370) — 10/15/2019 @ 6:38 amWe do not need to support all the Kurds. We do not need to even acknowledge the existence of all the Kurds. Just the ones who defeated ISIS in Syria for us, to whom we promised a safe zone, the ones whom Trump betrayed.
nk (dbc370) — 10/15/2019 @ 6:41 am@115,
Last Tuesday we had a strained working relationship with our ally Turkey. We had a functional working relationship with our Kurdish Allies. Many Isis prisoners were contained. We were not sustaining US casualties. There was minimal fighting in the region. We were viewed as a reliable partner in the region. Our opponents in the region, Russia and Syria, had limited influence.
Today we have
a strained working relationship with our ally Turkey. We had a functional working relationship with our Kurdish Allies. Many Isis prisoners were contained.We are not sustaining US casualties.There was minimal fighting in the region. We were viewed as a reliable partner in the region. Our opponents in the region, Russia and Syria, had limited influence.Again, the goal might be worthy, but Trump has gone about it in the stupidest way possible.
Time123 (b0628d) — 10/15/2019 @ 6:47 am“Just the ones who defeated ISIS in Syria for us, to whom we promised a safe zone, the ones whom Trump betrayed.”
Is this promise documented? Who made it?
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/15/2019 @ 6:50 amNot worth a single American’s life.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/15/2019 @ 6:52 amIf America is going to back down to a sh!thole like Turkey, then America is the place which is not worth a single American’s life.
nk (dbc370) — 10/15/2019 @ 7:07 amThat’s a perfectly defensible position.
what isn’t defensible is to tell them to take down their defenses because we will provide a safe zone and then remove that safe zone weeks later without telling them first.
Time123 (b0628d) — 10/15/2019 @ 7:08 amHere’s an AP news piece from early Sept that discusses the safe zone. Because it’s from 9/4 none of the current political implications were known and I’m treating it like a straight news piece on a topic the AP wouldn’t expect many people to care about deeply.
Key passages
Time123 (b0628d) — 10/15/2019 @ 7:19 amI worry about the bruised psyches of those who defend Trump all the time. Can your soul pull a hamstring from violent contortions caused by galloping whataboutery?
Appalled (1a17de) — 10/15/2019 @ 7:23 amHaiku,
In August 2019, the US, Turkey, and SDF (Kurdish Syrian Democratic Force) agreed to establish a “security mechanism” zone along the Syrian-Turkey border. The US military seemed to consider it important and binding. Just two days before Trump pulled the plug, the military tweeted about the “concrete steps” taken in the “security mechanism framework.”
DRJ (15874d) — 10/15/2019 @ 7:33 amApparently Erdogan wasn’t that pleased with the agreement so he lobbied Trump to breach it.
DRJ (15874d) — 10/15/2019 @ 7:34 amThe Kurdish SDF forces claim they had agreed because the US had guaranteed their safety.
DRJ (15874d) — 10/15/2019 @ 7:37 amGood info DRJ.
Why is Trump such a wimp?
Time123 (ca85c9) — 10/15/2019 @ 7:37 amThank you, Time123 and DRJ.
nk (dbc370) — 10/15/2019 @ 7:39 amalso, before MG or CH start accusing me of not caring about the lives of our soldiers, there was ZERO work done or threats made about sanctions or other non-military deterrents in advance of this. Nor any that involved loaning the Kurds money to buy better weapons that might deter the Turks.
I wonder if a drafted senate bill to arm the Kurds with cruise missiles would have been a deterrent? Would Turkey have taken that chance?
Time123 (ca85c9) — 10/15/2019 @ 7:41 amI think Trump doesn’t pay close attention to his briefings — if he even allows briefings on things like this — and he thinks he is so smart that he often acts without consulting his advisers. IMO that is the opposite of the way a wimp acts. Harm resulting from conduct like that is so grossly reckless that the law considers it to be intentional harm.
DRJ (15874d) — 10/15/2019 @ 7:44 amStay classy, Mr President!
Kevin M (19357e) — 10/15/2019 @ 7:46 amWhy is Trump such a wimp?
The explanation is in nature. There are two survival instincts: Fight or flight. The wolf fights, the rabbit runs. Trump runs.
There are several species survival mechanisms: The wolf’s is being the most dangerous thing to try to eat. The rabbit’s is to “breed” a lot. Trump “breeds” a lot.
nk (dbc370) — 10/15/2019 @ 7:47 amGood point but very unfair to rabbits.
DRJ (15874d) — 10/15/2019 @ 7:52 am125… well then… thanks for the info. Trump has screwed the pooch and our NATO “ally” should be dealt with in a serious way.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/15/2019 @ 7:56 amDRJ, I think you’re partly right in that he’s not working very hard to come up with good plans. But when push comes to shove on external events he’s consistently picked the path of least resistance (like a wimp) and then put his energy into telling everyone how tough he is, how well this is working, how unfair it is everyone is picking on him etc.
He seems very reluctant to take action outside the arena of PR and the Media when that action might make him accountable for the results.
Here are some other examples where he’s shown a lack of political courage; Gun Control, The Replacement for Obamacare, a plan for DACA/immigration reform, the wall for his first 2 years and his trade wars. Once the low hanging fruit like the Paris accords was gone he was done. His MO now seems to be to get whatever he scraps he can and then work to market them as a steak dinner.
Time123 (ca85c9) — 10/15/2019 @ 7:57 amWe still need to leave Syria. Not our fight.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/15/2019 @ 8:04 amHe does not lack confidence like a wimp. He is a fool.
DRJ (15874d) — 10/15/2019 @ 8:09 amIt appears the Euros may now be stepping up. Erdogan’s Turkey doesn’t seem to consider itself an ally.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/15/2019 @ 8:16 amhttps://www.hughhewitt.com/deputy-assistant-to-the-president-victoria-coates-senior-director-for-the-middle-east-on-the-national-security-council/
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/15/2019 @ 8:18 amThe security mechanism agreement may have ultimately led to the US leaving Syria, Haiku. It may have been designed to effectively create a demilitarized zone between Turkey and Syria, with a peacekeeping force such as the U.N. I don’t know if we will ever leave now but if we do, this means we will definitely expand our presence in Saudi Arabia.
DRJ (15874d) — 10/15/2019 @ 8:24 amIt also heightens our concerns over having so many military assets at Incirlik.
DRJ (15874d) — 10/15/2019 @ 8:28 amIf what Erdogan is perpetrating is domestically popular, what does that say about Turkey’s membership in NATO and viability as an ally? Who knows what the next few weeks will hold.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/15/2019 @ 8:33 am142… to say the least.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/15/2019 @ 8:33 amSure, just ask current members of the Free Syrian Army. If you can find any.
This isn’t helpful either.
If you want to resolve the multitude of Syria’s problems with NATO and regional allies, particularly the Turks, the US needs a presence.
And to think for want of a no-fly zone a lot of these local and now exported problems – the refugee floods, the gassing, the destruction of whole cities and towns, ethnic cleansing, mass executions, ISIS bases and recruitment centres – could have been greatly minimized.
A tinpot dictator dropping chemical weapons on children wasn’t a Western concern, apparently.
JP (24566b) — 10/15/2019 @ 9:21 amWhat can I say I’m fancy
JP (24566b) — 10/15/2019 @ 9:33 am“A tinpot dictator dropping chemical weapons on children wasn’t a Western concern, apparently.”
The “West”, including members of NATO, sure, it should be a concern. It should be a concern for all the civilized world. Collectively. The world has depended on the US maintaining unfettered access to ME oil for decades. It’s way past time for this responsibility to be shared by more of the beneficiaries. IMO.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/15/2019 @ 9:41 amyou mean the two airstrikes that happened in khan sheikhoun and eastern Damascus, as opposed to no airstrikes in the Obama years, yes they spent 500 million on the free Syrian army,
narciso (d1f714) — 10/15/2019 @ 9:43 amSure. Realistically who can provide a replacement for US strength and deterrence, though? The nearest regional powers in the Levant are – ironically, given the current uproar – Turkey and Israel.
Closer to home, it’s fair to say that some of those beneficiaries do far more than you think, even while accepting that more can be done generally.
It’s also fair to say that a lot of those beneficiaries follow America’s lead. If America retreats, others follow.
JP (24566b) — 10/15/2019 @ 9:58 amTrump complains about closed-door depositions as another witness testifies
Maybe Trump should volunteer to be deposed.
Rip Murdock (657d44) — 10/15/2019 @ 10:41 amAttention turns to Bolton after former aide told impeachment probe he fought Giuliani’s shadow operation in Ukraine
The House’s impeachment inquiry is turning attention toward former national security adviser John Bolton, after a former top aide delivered explosive testimony Monday describing how he was infuriated by a shadow operation being conducted by the president’s allies and his lawyer in Ukraine to dig up dirt on the president’s political rivals.
Fiona Hill, who was the National Security Council’s top Russia and Europe adviser under Bolton, told investigators that Bolton likened President Trump’s lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani, a driving force behind the efforts, to a “hand grenade,” according to two people familiar with her testimony.
Hill also testified that Bolton wanted to make clear he was not involved and very opposed to the “drug deal” between the White House’s acting Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney and U.S. Ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland, who were also involved in the effort, the people said. ….
Rip Murdock (657d44) — 10/15/2019 @ 10:48 am“Closer to home, it’s fair to say that some of those beneficiaries do far more than you think, even while accepting that more can be done generally.”
True… very close to home. I’m talking about those who fall well short.
Colonel Haiku (ec41b2) — 10/15/2019 @ 11:06 am