As Turkey Begins Its Military Offensive, Trump Faces Criticism From Prominent Evangelicals
[guest post by Dana]
Last night, Washington Post columnist David Ignatius tweeted:
A bad situation in Northeast Syria is about to get much worse. Sources tell me that US officials have just informed the Syrian Kurds that Turkey is likely to attack on air and ground in next 24 hours. The US will do nothing. Targets are Tal Abyad and Ras al Ayn….
…Ironically Tal Abyad was the main supply route for ISIS in 2014-15 through an open border from Turkey. Turkey refused repeated requests from US to shut border. That’s a big reason why US decided to partner with SDF, which took the town in the summer of 2015.
…I’m also told that Turkish attack appears coordinated with the Russians. Russian-backed forces are mobilizing to invade the Kurdish area from the south — towards Tabqa and other spots. Meanwhile, ISIS is mobilizing sleeper cells in Raqqa and attacks have taken place tonight.
…And finally there is the scary issue of the thousands of ISIS detainees and families, who may be breaking out of camps and prisons after Turkish attack–with NO American back-up plan. This is a major disaster coming at us because of Trump’s decisions. Hours left to stop it…
A planned Turkish military operation in northern Syria has now begun, the country’s president announced Wednesday, as Kurdish fighters say warplanes are already bombing civilian areas in the region.
President Recep Tayyip Erdogan tweeted that the maneuvers being carried out against Syrian Kurdish forces – which Ankara considers terrorists allied with a Kurdish insurgency within Turkey – are part of Operation Peace Spring.
“Our mission is to prevent the creation of a terror corridor across our southern border, and to bring peace to the area,” he said in a tweet. “#OperationPeaceSpring will neutralize terror threats against Turkey and lead to the establishment of a safe zone, facilitating the return of Syrian refugees to their homes.”
A spokesperson for the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces says Turkish warplanes have “started to carry out airstrikes on civilian areas”, causing a “huge panic among people of the region.”
Pentagon officials have confirmed that the U.S. will not be flying air support for the Kurds, in spite of the Kurds having requested the help. Fox News is reporting that U.S. military officials said that President Trump has ordered them to not get involved:
The US military has been ordered by President Trump not to help. https://t.co/Fm0J7H9BBJ
— Jennifer Griffin (@JenGriffinFNC) October 9, 2019
Meanwhile, President Trump is facing widespread disapproval within the GOP for his decision to pull U.S. troops from the region in advance of Turkey’s military offensive. Now, some prominent members of the evangelical community are also breaking with him on the decision. This is significant given how readily evangelical leaders have rationalized the President’s foul treatment of women and minorities, as well as choosing to look the other way with regard to his less than honorable character. Some are directly criticizing Trump for his decision, while others are taking a more diplomatic approach and carefully avoiding any direct criticism of Trump:
President Trump has committed an egregious act of betrayal in what he is doing to the Kurds. Shame on him.
— Erick Erickson (@EWErickson) October 9, 2019
From Pat Robertson, host of the 700 Club:
“The president who allowed Khashoggi to be cut in pieces without any repercussions whatsoever is now allowing the Christians and the Kurds to be massacred by the Turks,” Robertson said. “And I believe — and I want to say this with great solemnity — the president of the United States is in danger of losing the mandate of heaven if he permits this to happen.”
TODAY join me in praying as the Turkish army has invaded Syria in the area that the US military withdrew from. The Turks have a dismal record on human rights & they can’t be trusted. Pray for the Kurds, Christians, & other minorities in this region. https://t.co/f0LKuCeYLs
— Franklin Graham (@Franklin_Graham) October 9, 2019
And of course, some die-hard loyalists are still willing to carry water for the President:
.@realDonaldTrump @DanScavino https://t.co/EQO9slN4rw pic.twitter.com/aD8QJlgWLG
— Jerry Falwell (@JerryFalwellJr) October 8, 2019
After Trump complimented Turkey on Twitter as a “big trading partner,” the White House announced that President Erdogan will visit the United States on Nov. 13 at the invitation of President Trump. In light of what happened outside the Turkish ambassador’s residence after Erdogan’s first official meeting with Trump at the White House, demonstrators should be prepared.
(Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.)
–Dana
Good morning.
Dana (05f22b) — 10/9/2019 @ 10:03 amyes, and the turks were striking the kurds in Kurdistan, at the heart of the Iraq war, when he had 150,000 troops, maybe Robertson should get some perspective,
narciso (d1f714) — 10/9/2019 @ 10:13 amLeaving our allies, the Kurds, to be slaughtered by Turkey… on a whim. And Jerry Falwell Jr.
Disgusting.
noel (f22371) — 10/9/2019 @ 10:30 amTrump is not only selling out the Kurds. He has been selling out America since the day he took office. Impeached? He should be tried for treason, “adhering to our enemies giving them aid and comfort”, and executed.
nk (dbc370) — 10/9/2019 @ 10:39 amIt is disgusting, Noel. When you realize that Trump set them up a few weeks ago by getting them to agree to Safe Zones before betraying them. There are hundreds of ISIS prisoners that could possibly be freed here. Trump has no valid US interest to his decision. We had what, 50 troops here? The ISIS operation wasn’t really using our people. We will have a hard time pulling that off now that no one trusts us. But the need might be back soon.
What’s interesting is that whenever Syria comes up, we seem to be acting as Putin’s puppet. And with AG Barr lying to us about Trump’s collusion and obstruction, it’s easy to see what is going on here. They don’t think Trump will be in office for too much longer, so they are just using him up.
If the GOP doesn’t reject Trump loudly, it will be a long term issue for the party.
Dustin (6d7686) — 10/9/2019 @ 10:40 amTurkey – for better or worse – is our NATO ally, with American nukes based within their country. We are bound by treaty to defend them, if they are attacked.
Provide strong support for a Kurdish state, let Middle Eastern people sort out the Middle East or plan on U.S. boots on the ground in perpetuity.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/9/2019 @ 11:01 amWhat do/did we have in that area, 50 troops?
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/9/2019 @ 11:09 amThere are approximately 10,000
Dana (5a97fa) — 10/9/2019 @ 11:13 am#4
I take it you are a vote for William Weld then?
Appalled (1a17de) — 10/9/2019 @ 11:18 amLiterally the talking points.
Of course we also know that Turkey is the bad guy, the Kurds are the good guys, and a few months ago that was part of Trump’s talking points. Trump is saving ISIS and helping Russia at the expense of people Trump promised safety to. The administration used the expression “Safe Zone.” This is wrong. Muddy the waters with talk of alliances all you want. Kids are being bombed. We betrayed friends who helped us when we asked.
It is deeply dishonest to tell the middle east people we will keep them safe, so toss your fortifications, and then a few weeks later abandon them, saying it’s up to them to figure this out. Russia has won such a generational victory over this.
You thought Carter screwed Iran up? Trump says hold his 16 boxes of sudafed and watch this.
Dustin (6d7686) — 10/9/2019 @ 11:20 amSo will the House now be launching a lawsuit over the Constitutional issue of whether or not a President may refuse to wage a war duly declared by the House? Although, now that I think about it, I don’t remember exactly who it was the House declared war on here – was it Syria or Turkey or the Kurds? It would be silly to think that the House would abrogate their Constitutional duty to declare war by essentially writing a blank check to the President and just allow him to wage war against whoever he pleased in whatever means he felt like – and then have the nerve to complain when the President cashes the check. As silly as a President signing an agreement of some sort with a foreign country without getting the Constitutionally-required advice and consent of the Senate in order to have an actual binding treaty with the United States, and then complaining when the next President to come along simply withdraws from the agreement on the basis that it’s not actually a binding agreement with the US.
Jerryskids (702a61) — 10/9/2019 @ 11:21 am…ISIS prisoners in Northern Syria, that is…
Dana (5a97fa) — 10/9/2019 @ 11:24 amTrump on the situation this morning, in part:
Dana (5a97fa) — 10/9/2019 @ 11:32 am12… so it is 50 troops then. Is the U.S. the only nation responsible for keeping ISIS in check? We are the only nation that should be concerned? What is our interest in Syria?
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/9/2019 @ 11:33 amThey struck Military Targets (depots). It is the first thing you do before entering. Remember, Turkey is attacking Syria. They’ve been doing it for centuries and Trump knows it. These two have to learn how to be neighbors.
Mark (57ef87) — 10/9/2019 @ 11:38 amYou know how some people lie in a bizarre way, where they bring up specifically what they feel most guilty for lying about? Trump does not expect Turkey to protect the USA by keeping their buddies in prison. The Kurds that Turkey is murdering are bitter enemies of ISIS.
And Trump just said (if you put these claims together) that keeping ISIS in custody does not benefit the USA. That it’s not a problem we should be concerned with.
Remember, Trump’s praised the Clinton foreign policy more than any other. That’s the foreign policy of ‘it’s the economy stupid.’ It’s the foreign policy where we ignored Al Qaeda. Since 1999, Islamic State has pledged allegiance to Al Qaeda, as they are both the same people with the same goals.
Put all that aside. In a few years we’ll need help in the Middle East and promise safety and alliance. I hope those we ask see Trump as an anomaly and work with the USA. If not, that means Americans go and fight. Trump’s attitude is that ignoring the issue will protect American lives. That’s basically Neville Chamberlain’s idea. In the short term, he’s right, and in the long term, he’s wrong.
This is such a political and strategic loser for everyone but Putin and Turkey and ISIS.
Dustin (6d7686) — 10/9/2019 @ 11:43 amChina does the same thing to its people every day and I look forward to speaking out against them. Turkey and China both need to be punished for their anti-liberty behavior. If only we had a way to do so.
NJRob (ba88af) — 10/9/2019 @ 11:52 amIt figures that Putin is taking up the southern flank. Thanks, Donald, for selling out the most democratic Muslim-majority region in the ME for a couple of dictators.
Paul Montagu (f9d74d) — 10/9/2019 @ 11:52 amOh, and Trump is lying about Turkey being a big trading partner. They aren’t even in the top 30.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_trading_partners_of_the_United_States
We had 150,000 troops at the height of the iraq war, didnt prevent the decimation of the christian population notably the assyrians,
narciso (d1f714) — 10/9/2019 @ 11:52 amTHIS makes the evangelicals criticize Trump? Not the serial philandering, or consorting with prostitutes, or the lying, or all the other tawdry behavior?
What took them so long?
Chuck Bartowski (bc1c71) — 10/9/2019 @ 11:55 amAgreed 100%. Of course the President of the USA is demanding impeachment for a US Senator who criticized him, which is utterly unconstitutional. It’s not like in the Reagan days where the president recovers from being shot like a champ and calls for us to be an ideal and example. Trump was in a porno mag praising the strength of China’s tienanmen square massacre.
I’d like to meet you halfway and just drop the US Politics aspect, but there’s a reason Russia and China are worse today than they were even with Obama.
Dustin (6d7686) — 10/9/2019 @ 12:04 pmI think that as soon as Trump made the decision to withdraw American troops, he endorsed the attack. And as soon as he got off the phone with Erogdan, he endorsed the attack.
Dana (05f22b) — 10/9/2019 @ 12:12 pmAnd why would Turkey care whether the U.S. thinks it’s a bad idea, when the decision to pull American soldiers out of the region spoke more loudly and honestly than any words?
To our allies caught in a soon to be war zone, these words – There are no American soldiers in the area – must be some of the most devastating and demoralizing words a people can hear. That those American soldiers, albeit small in number, were able to hold the peace, also speaks loudly to the power and might of the U.S. military.
Dana (05f22b) — 10/9/2019 @ 12:16 pmGreat point.
But that is a perception thing. We save a whole lot of our own lives by being perceived as tough. We can back it up… but not instantly and not without taking risks. Benghazi is a good example.
Next time we need to stop thousands of ISIS I bet it takes something more like Operation Iraqi Freedom. And of course, there will be a next time. Had this sorted but it limited Putin so we had to get rid of it. Trump won’t feel a lick of guilt about it either. After all, he had his own personal Vietnam.
Dustin (6d7686) — 10/9/2019 @ 12:21 pmProbably music the the American soldiers ears. The latest Trump-hate seems to not care about them.
BuDuh (b9b9a0) — 10/9/2019 @ 12:22 pmAnd this is the inevitable outcome as defenses are stretched thin with both the maintaining the detention of ISIS prisoners and as well as focusing on Turkey:
Dana (05f22b) — 10/9/2019 @ 12:27 pmDana… if we were to stay there to “protect the Kurds”… my question is this:
For how long should we stay there?
When do we leave?
Are we prepared to carve out a state (or safe zone) from a legit country? (we should’ve done that in Iraq, but didn’t have the will).
Did Congress really have a say in this? (this is my issue).
I feel like no one is asking “okay… and then what next?”.
whembly (51f28e) — 10/9/2019 @ 12:46 pmOf all the things evangelicals could criticize Trump on, they choose THIS?
Gryph (08c844) — 10/9/2019 @ 12:49 pmIts a policy issue, meanwhile at this time you all were agog over the whole khashoggi matter, as if that was the worse thing. Turkey iran and russia form an axis against egypt jordan israel and the gulf states sans qatar.
narciso (d1f714) — 10/9/2019 @ 12:54 pmIt is pretty funny when it you put like that. The USA has never had a sleazier slimier president. Debate a Trump fan long enough and the justification they give will be nihilism (who cares if he’s moral… if he’s on our side).
I’ll give them one thing: the religious right needs those Supreme Court nominations, and Trump gave them that. Since we live in the craziest political times, I expect RBG to die on election day for a Lame Duck extravaganza.
Dustin (6d7686) — 10/9/2019 @ 12:58 pmRight the guy who put a nambla supporter in the education department who extorted the sisters of the poor and hobby lobby,
narciso (d1f714) — 10/9/2019 @ 1:03 pmNo, she’ll go disco granny at the Warren party, and as the covered gurney leaves the ballroom floor, Hawaii’s returns will merit a recount due to ballot-blanking by dejected Tulsi partisans (she didnt nab the VP nom).
urbanleftbehind (5eecdb) — 10/9/2019 @ 1:06 pmwhembly,
As I said the other day, what an absolute mess, and pointed out Cooke’s commentary that Congress has avoided, evaded, and all together abdicated its responsibility with regard to the lack of
a coherent foreign policy:
With regard to abandoning our allies, it seems to me that we have allies around the world, and often times they do the fighting on behalf of us. Abandoning them off comes at a high price:
Dana (05f22b) — 10/9/2019 @ 1:16 pmSdp 1/erdogan 0
https://mobile.twitter.com/lummideast/status/1182025205876690944
narciso (d1f714) — 10/9/2019 @ 1:17 pmIf dubya had not invaded iraq none of this would have happened. Had all the votes been counted in floriduh instead of stopped by republicans on supreme court and gore became president 9-11 and afganistan war would never have happened as gore unlike bush didn’t need a second “pearl harbor” as the neo-cons did to invade iraq.
lany (1128c8) — 10/9/2019 @ 1:19 pmOr perhaps the American soldiers who fought to push back ISIS and defeat them would feel that, by abandoning the Kurds and increasing the liklihood of ISIS prisoners breaking free, they are not cared about, nor the immense sacrifices they made were worth it. Further, would it really be music to those soldiers’ ears to see their work and sacrifice undone as a result of, not ending the war nor sending troops home, but a decision made by POTUS that goes directly against his military leadership and advisers, and that even loyal members of his own party are criticizing?
Dana (05f22b) — 10/9/2019 @ 1:22 pmLet’s accept for the sake of argument that the USA shouldn’t get involved in the fight between ISIS and the Kurds. Shouldn’t we at least be honest about it? If we’re going to abandon the fight, should be promise to enforce a safe zone that con’s ISIS’s enemies into exposing themselves terribly? Doesn’t this kind of deception eventually force the US to fight without allies, exposing ourselves to greater casualties?
Sure, the families of those 50 troops are probably glad to get them home (if they did go home). If you take that slice and ignore the big picture, Code Pink was right all along. Are we supposed to flip flop on this kind of basic stuff just because the president is erratic?
Dustin (6d7686) — 10/9/2019 @ 1:26 pmNo idea what you’re referencing, but it’s amazing how there’s an example of Trump doing all the bad things we can name about democrats. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-former-miss-arizona-tasha-dixon-naked-undressed-backstage-howard-stern-a7357866.html
Dustin (6d7686) — 10/9/2019 @ 1:27 pmTurkey on the attack. Who could have foreseen this?
noel (f22371) — 10/9/2019 @ 1:29 pmRand Paul 2015:
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/rand-paul-on-the-kurds-then-and-now/
Paul Montagu (f9d74d) — 10/9/2019 @ 1:29 pmDamn straight they deserve their own country. They deserve it more Assad and any of their neighbors.
And in 2019, Paul used his MD and gave himself a ball-ectomy.
https://thefederalist.com/2019/10/09/trump-gave-turkey-a-choice-on-syria-cooperate-with-the-u-s-productively-or-risk-catastrophe/
Ted Cruz’s sensible reaction is at the link as well.
BuDuh (b9b9a0) — 10/9/2019 @ 1:29 pmVladimir Vladimirovich Putin. You sly dog. I’ll bet you never thought this would be so easy, did ya?
noel (f22371) — 10/9/2019 @ 1:33 pmI am really confused on your answer regarding “to what end.”
Do you know of a specific strategy that Trump’s “military leadership and advisers” had prepared that would have been music to the ears of US soldiers?
BuDuh (b9b9a0) — 10/9/2019 @ 1:38 pmErdogans economy is spent, the opposition is making headway and the sdf is formidable.
narciso (d1f714) — 10/9/2019 @ 1:38 pmHe won’t let you see his taxes. He refused to cooperate with the Mueller probe. And now, he is stonewalling Congress on an impeachment inquiry.
Somebody once said…. “You see the mob takes the Fifth, If you’re innocent, why are you taking the Fifth?”
Who was it? Who said that? I’m almost there. I will remember shortly. Hmm. Nope.
noel (f22371) — 10/9/2019 @ 1:49 pmSorry. Commented on wrong article.
noel (f22371) — 10/9/2019 @ 1:51 pmSay, what was the last name you commented here under? Cruz Supporter?
Trump promised to fight ISIS via allies. ISIS=the guys who flew planes into the World Trade Center. We were succeeding at this with 50 troops and some willpower.
Why did Trump support this if it’s such a bad idea? I am really confused.
Dustin (6d7686) — 10/9/2019 @ 1:52 pmEither you have forgotten that Patterico weighed in on this already, or this is malicious. He already informed you that I have only ever commented under this name.
BuDuh (b9b9a0) — 10/9/2019 @ 1:59 pm41… very interesting info at the link, BuDuh. Cruz’s comments and reactions to them, as well.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/9/2019 @ 2:00 pm@Dana… yes, it’s a mess and yes we will pay for it in the future with respect to our ability to form allies.
However, if we don’t have clear objectives and the full public support, it puts our armed forces in a very compromised position.
If we cannot answer why we’re there and for how long (as in, a clear winning objective), our armed forces shouldn’t be put in that hotbed of a mess.
However, I’m on team Kurds here. I do wish there’s a better policy here… I’m just not sure what that looks like.
If it is our responsibility, the our leaders need to articulate that for public support.
whembly (51f28e) — 10/9/2019 @ 2:00 pmSo more fallout from Obama’s dealings with those corksoakers in Iran, etc. Wonderful.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/9/2019 @ 2:04 pmHow about less headlines from sources, like mr. Henry frese fmrly of the dia, and those who would print like miss macias and miss kube
narciso (d1f714) — 10/9/2019 @ 2:15 pmThe pesh merga are tough, unlike the folks lindsay lavished 500 million on, they ran like scalded cats
narciso (d1f714) — 10/9/2019 @ 2:17 pmI know its not up to the standards of the beast or just security, being a first hand source
https://en.interfax.com.ua/news/press-conference/617936.html
narciso (d1f714) — 10/9/2019 @ 2:23 pmA Ukrainian source using English, narciso!?!? An obvious fake, the Bidens have done nothing wrong.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/9/2019 @ 2:31 pmYou’re right, it’s not up to the standards. Interfax-Ukraine is a Moscow-based pro-Russian news agency. Nobody else has reported on this “story” because Ukrainians know they’re full of sh*t. Rosemont Seneca Partners is Hunter’s firm, not Joe’s, so it’s not news that money from Burisma went there. But those Moscow-based “news” agencies can’t be bothered with little details like that. They’re too busy churning out their pro-Putin propaganda.
Paul Montagu (88b43e) — 10/9/2019 @ 3:10 pmI take it by your oblique non-denial that I’m correct.
Dustin (6d7686) — 10/9/2019 @ 3:12 pmand he’s an independent parliament member, of course the kyev post, the ukrinform, any local site, that a third rate stringer analyst would reference,
narciso (d1f714) — 10/9/2019 @ 3:18 pm“We cannot leave our troops in foreign theaters forever.” – Ted Cruz
Really Senator Yesbut?? As long as you keep borrowing from China to finance a protectorate for corporate interests, of course you can– see Germany, or Japan, or South Korea–etc., etc., for details.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/9/2019 @ 3:19 pmThe ‘bring them home’ argument made sense in some areas, but with the Kurds we only had a few dozen people there. They were leveraging power and people incredibly well. Given that we’ll have to send a lot more people later, and we barely had anyone there now, this just isn’t a good faith argument. Are we bringing home everyone in South Korea and Japan? On every ship with more than 50 sailors? Why not?
Dustin (6d7686) — 10/9/2019 @ 3:32 pm@28. That is pretty funny; religious zealots have always been an irrational lot.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/9/2019 @ 3:32 pm@60
Ted “Carpet Bomb ISIS” Cruz? No way.
Davethulhu (fab944) — 10/9/2019 @ 3:34 pmThe “bring them home” argument is not an argument. It’s a LIE. Trump is not bringing any American troops home. He is giving a license to the Turks to slaughter Kurds with a promise that we will not interfere. He is also giving a green light to the Syrian government and Russian troops to move in without any fear of confrontation with the United States. He is a treacher to the Kurds and a traitor to America.
nk (dbc370) — 10/9/2019 @ 3:41 pm@62- postscript; re#28: wait ’til they learn NASA has discovered life on Mars. That should blow a few fuses. [Follow the water.]
DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/9/2019 @ 3:41 pmwhat I discovered is how well connected burisma, is in European capitals, represented by the annual conference in Monaco, hosted by prince albert, which features fmr german foreign ministers, Italian prime ministers et al, figures on the left, although there is a randy corrupt wet tory named Pritchard, who is part of the organization that sends elections observers here,
narciso (d1f714) — 10/9/2019 @ 3:45 pmPer the Dept. of Defense, the troops are being moved out of the way:
That doesn’t sound like they’re coming home to me. Further, it would only stand to reason that, if they were indeed being sent home, Trump would be crowing about it because it would be part of fulfilling his promise to reduce U.S. forces abroad.
Dana (05f22b) — 10/9/2019 @ 3:50 pmit’s a little more complicated then that,
https://heavy.com/news/2019/10/henry-kyle-frese/
between this duo and ali Watkins is their honest reporting on the national security front,
narciso (d1f714) — 10/9/2019 @ 3:52 pmThe how dare you sect goes off the rails daily.
mg (8cbc69) — 10/9/2019 @ 3:59 pmYour mouth is running off ahead of your brain, narciso. Interfax-Ukraine claimed that Joe Biden is involved with Rosement Seneca Partners, which is a lie.
Paul Montagu (88b43e) — 10/9/2019 @ 4:00 pmI’m not seeing that in the timeline:
https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/timeline-the-rise-spread-and-fall-the-islamic-state
BuDuh (b9b9a0) — 10/9/2019 @ 4:02 pmGood word, treacher. I won’t call Trump a traitor, but I have repeatedly said that he is unpatriotic and un-American, and that his motto should be Trump First, America Second.
Paul Montagu (88b43e) — 10/9/2019 @ 4:03 pmThis from Jennifer Griffin Fox News:
Dana (05f22b) — 10/9/2019 @ 4:05 pmHow is “I have only ever commented under this name” an oblique non-denial?
This is a personal attack that is not only unclever, it shows unseriousness. Maybe the moderators would like to apply the rules?
BuDuh (b9b9a0) — 10/9/2019 @ 4:07 pmErdogan is an Islamist,
Everybody keeps forgetting that.
nk (dbc370) — 10/9/2019 @ 4:11 pmwell you all forgot about it, last year at this time, along with Qatar, which we are disengaging from, they sourced 80% of the khashoggi kerfluffle, which isn’t surprising they stick up for an Ilkwan,
narciso (d1f714) — 10/9/2019 @ 4:14 pmBut buduh said that they would like this move!
I guess it turns out the people who sign up to defend our country from ISIS are actually fans of … doing that.
Dustin (6d7686) — 10/9/2019 @ 4:18 pmThat sounds like a great environment to leave 50 US soldiers. To what end? Congress declares war on Turkey?
BuDuh (b9b9a0) — 10/9/2019 @ 4:19 pmI agree I’m not being clever, though in my defense, I don’t see any need to be. I do not understand why you think it’s a personal attack. Obviously I interpret your non-denial normally. Not sure why you didn’t expect this.
Dustin (6d7686) — 10/9/2019 @ 4:22 pmThat sounds like a great environment to leave 50 US soldiers.
Which Trump created! Trump created the environment. He gave Erdogan permission to invade and promised the United States would not interfere. And he is still leaving American troops in harm’s way.
WTF! Trump didn’t get this much coddling from his parents as he’s getting from his butt gerbils. At least his father put him in a military school in an effort to make a man out of him. A futile effort.
nk (dbc370) — 10/9/2019 @ 4:25 pmThey are heroes for signing up to face risk, lose dear friends, all to stop ISIS. When Obama abandoned the cause in Iraq, I thought about my friends who didn’t come back. It wasn’t “music to my ears” as you describe it.
This need of the same folks to defend literally anything Trump does, even when he’s blatantly flip flopping, and never admit a flaw in Trump no matter how they have to twist, is truly the most amazing thing about the Trump presidency.
Trump had these guys fighting ISIS for a long time. Fighting ISIS was actually a significant aspect of his candidacy. Why was that a good thing, something the same people defending this move in this thread were praising not long ago (those who kept the same handle anyway)? How does it just so happen that everything Trump does is just right, and everyone criticizing him must be shut down? Obviously because a lot of Trump’s fans are crazy hacks. We all know it, but it’s really fascinating to me. Of all the US Presidents to get this kind of loyalty, it’s that one?!?
Dustin (6d7686) — 10/9/2019 @ 4:26 pmThe timeline I posted at 4:02 notes everytime the Turkish military engaged and killed ISIS fighters. Why is it assumed that they would let the ISIS prisoners escape with their lives?
BuDuh (b9b9a0) — 10/9/2019 @ 4:26 pmwell the turks allowed sanctuary to Islamic state and nusra front, in the past, including access to medical care, why are they still in nato,
narciso (d1f714) — 10/9/2019 @ 4:31 pmBecause you didn’t say it. You quoted someone else saying it about you (probably with some qualification you didn’t include, not that I really know or recall or even care).
You could have just said “nope!” Instead you said “well he said I wasn’t! and how DARE you ask me! RULES!!!” Seems like you’re both touchy and non-denialish.
You’re also clearly the same dude. A statistical analysis of your comments shows a 99.7% correlation in punctuation and syntax.
Dustin (6d7686) — 10/9/2019 @ 4:32 pmBecause I have never commented under any other name. If I were to always engage your posts with “weren’t you the guy who posted as happyfeet,” would you understand the personal nature of using such a falshood strictly as an ad hominem device?
BuDuh (b9b9a0) — 10/9/2019 @ 4:32 pmYou do know what the I in ISIS stands for, right? It’s very relevant to an understanding of Turkish policy these days.
Dustin (6d7686) — 10/9/2019 @ 4:33 pmWhat are you talking about? You don’t make any sense.
I will reward your personal attack effort and quit commenting here again.
BuDuh (b9b9a0) — 10/9/2019 @ 4:36 pmOn second thought you guys don’t really sound anything alike anyway.
Dustin (6d7686) — 10/9/2019 @ 4:39 pmNo doubt, it does appear to be a questionable move, and most of what I’ve read states as much, although in more descriptive terms. The Kurds will have to stand alone at some point and the US isn’t the only nation with an interest in keeping ISIS constrained.
The cost effective way to do this, of course, would be to show these ISIS prisoners – every single one of them – the same mercy they showed the prisoners they took from the start of their activities.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/9/2019 @ 4:45 pmAgree with Haiku for once. If we just executed all the ISIS guys and then came home, that would be something. I don’t think we should be a murderous nation, but I do think the current strategy was often too gentle and takes too long, with nation building we’ll never persevere long enough like we had 50 years ago.
Polls show a 5% jump in GOP support for removing Trump.
That means most Americans want Trump removed from office. And now the Senators have a pretty good reason.
Dustin (6d7686) — 10/9/2019 @ 4:51 pmyes, but then the western Europeans would complain, like the ones who had an Charlie Hebdo attacker on staff at the highest levels of domestic security, I know news down the memory hole,
narciso (d1f714) — 10/9/2019 @ 4:53 pmSo basically Erdogan said he was sending people in and instead of calling his bluff, Trump capitulated and ran away. Wonderful.
Can you imagine what it would have been like if he had been President on 9/11? “I called up the leader of the Taliban and he said that they didn’t have any al quaeda in their country. I know the CIA says different, but they are deep-state traitors so I asked him and he said there weren’t any. What can I do? Plus they make really great blankets there. Really nice, excellent blankets. Great trading partner. No Al quaeda.” OBL would be drinking a really nice sparkling cider in Dubai tonight.
Nic (896fdf) — 10/9/2019 @ 4:59 pmEveryone in the USA should start calling this the “New Turkish Genocide” and comment on how it is barely 100 years since their last one.
Kevin M (19357e) — 10/9/2019 @ 4:59 pmThis is an interesting take from an ME POLICY specialist…
”Over the last few days, a host of former Obama officials have been repeating this story, which is highly misleading, to say the least. Rice and her colleagues would have us believe that Team Obama created a highly effective plan for stabilizing the Middle East by working through groups like the YPG, and Trump, mercurial and impulsive, is throwing it all away by seeking a rapprochement with Ankara. That’s nonsense. In fact, the close relationship with the YPG was a quick fix that bequeathed to Trump profound strategic dilemmas. Trump inherited from Obama a dysfunctional strategy for countering ISIS, one that ensured ever-greater turmoil in the region and placed American forces in an impossible position.
To be sure, the YPG are good fighters, and the American soldiers who have fought alongside them hold them in very high esteem. But the decision to make them the primary ally for defeating ISIS came at a hidden cost: the alienation of one of America’s closest allies. The YPG is the Syrian wing of the PKK, the Kurdish separatist group in Turkey.”
https://nypost.com/2019/10/08/how-obamas-team-set-up-trumps-syrian-dilemma/
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/9/2019 @ 5:01 pmJimmy Carter’s foreign policy was bad.
James Buchanan’s foreign policy was worse (once the South seceded).
But Trump doesn’t HAVE a foreign policy. He has Calvinball.
Kevin M (19357e) — 10/9/2019 @ 5:03 pmBut Obama! But Clinton! But Chicago!
nk (dbc370) — 10/9/2019 @ 5:05 pmI have the tallest building in New York guys! And I will ruin the economy of anyone who takes credit for 9/11! Which my friends in Russia tell me is Georgia!
—
Also, this betrayal started about a month ago when the administration tricked the Kurds with the safe zone stuff. That was an actual devious plan. John Bolton resigned a month ago tomorrow. I bet this is a really big part of what he’s going to want to write about.
Soon, one way or another, Trump will be back on the sidelines, bashing the GOP, and some, hopefully most, of his fans will be acting like they never liked him. Surreal.
Dustin (6d7686) — 10/9/2019 @ 5:09 pmGood grief!
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/trump-says-little-as-his-gop-allies-condemn-turkeys-incursion-into-syria/2019/10/09/c46210f6-eaab-11e9-9306-47cb0324fd44_story.html
nk (dbc370) — 10/9/2019 @ 5:10 pmDa Cubz… da Bearz… da Bullschiff…
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/9/2019 @ 5:12 pm27: Those are all excellent questions. And here are some more:
1. Do we (meaning the country, not armchair warriors prepared to send US troops everywhere at the snap of some fingers) prepared to oppose Turkey on the ground to save the Kurds?
as part of 1, what percent of the 10,00 troops there are combat troops, versus, MP’s, cooks, clerks, comm specialists, etc. If past wars are a guide, barely 1,000 (if that) can be considered combat troops.
as part of that, how many more (total)do we need to oppose Turkey on the ground?
2. Do we kick Turkey out of NATO to protect the Kurds? (what happens to our airbase there?)
3. Will the EU agree with those 2? Or just stand by as usual?
4. What is the long term interest of the US, esp. as it relates to containing Putin? Being with Turkey or the Kurds?
If the sum of all those is “Damn it, I guess we stick with the Turks,” then doesn’t all the outrage over what Trump has done boil down to more of the same?
“We don’t like what he did, he did it abruptly, inelegantly, he did not pay ritualistic tribute to “our allies, the Kurds,” and we can’t see how it could be done differently, but it offends us.”
Harcourt Fenton Mudd (0c349e) — 10/9/2019 @ 5:12 pmThis is CNN… https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/cnn-tries-to-get-interior-department-official-fired-for-opposing-jihad-violence/
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/9/2019 @ 5:18 pm“Can you imagine what it would have been like if he had been President on 9/11?”
Nic (896fdf) — 10/9/2019 @ 4:59 pm
Yeah, sure dodged a bullet there.
Instead we got one of those WMD/invasion thingies. Now, we just happen to have ISIS, Syria chaos, and the Kurds — by sheer coincidence!
BTW, if Bush Jr thought hating Trump would buy him any friends, it’s really not working out:
Munroe (53beca) — 10/9/2019 @ 5:18 pmhttps://www.buzzfeed.com/stephenlaconte/mark-ruffalo-ellen-degeneres-george-bush-kindness
Trump only fights Americans.
nk (dbc370) — 10/9/2019 @ 5:22 pm@100
1. You don’t trick the Kurds into leaving themselves vulnerable by pledging your support and then getting them to leave the border unmanned.
2-4. You tell Erdogan you aren’t moving your people out and any attack against your people is an attack against the US. Then you stand on the Kurd side of the border and stare him down. Erdogan would not have crossed if we had taken a stand.
Trump either got backed down by a bluff or he sold the Kurds down the river for something we don’t know about yet.
Nic (896fdf) — 10/9/2019 @ 5:22 pmSome time in May or June, the USA And Kurds begin negotiating about a Safe Zone.
June 17, Iran blows up a Japanese Tanker,
June 20, Iran shoots down a drone. We have a retaliation strike underway that is called off for completely mysterious reasons.
July 17, Iran hijacks Adrian Darya-1 Tanker, which goes to Syria. We don’t do anything about it.
September 4, the Kurds agree to a Safe Zone. There’s a massive withdrawal from strategic border positions.
September 7, John Bolton accuses Iran of funding Russia ally Assad, claims the tanker was diverted there, not far from Tartus, a permanent Russian naval base in Syria.
September 8, we learn that Trump invited the ISIS allied Taliban to Camp David
September 10, John Bolton tweets “the Iranian regime are working overtime on deception.”
September 10 is also when Trump claimed he fired Bolton.
October 8, Trump abandons the Kurds in Syria. Turkey begins an operation to quote “clear” the kurds from NE Syria.
October 9, the Kurds abandon their effort to fight ISIS because they can’t face them and the Turkish military at the same time. Russia’s 63,000 soldiers in the area are the only major military presence.
—
I think Trump was under the impression he was brokering some kind of huge peace with Iran, the Taliban, and the Turkish, based on advice from his Russian friends. I think they made a deal with the Kurds to pull back from its positions and waited a calendar month before backstabbing them. I think Trump doesn’t even understand that he got played, and Bolton bailed on the naive plan so it wouldn’t define his career.
Dustin (6d7686) — 10/9/2019 @ 5:25 pm@102 It sounds like you are saying we should’ve let Al Quaeda get away with killing thousands of Americans. Is that what you are saying?
Nic (896fdf) — 10/9/2019 @ 5:25 pmToo many of those dates show weird action or inaction on our part. It all seems to be coming directly from Trump himself. I wouldn’t be surprised if Putin went ahead and further destablized our government when he has no use for Trump. It would only make them look more powerful if they did reveal a lot of this was their doing.
Iraqis voting. Which under their religious views, leads to a lot of dumb things, but over time, they would have worked it out. Over time, a more accountable government would have produced an advanced nation. But that would have taken decades, and Obama wasn’t going to let that happen, so now everyone just knows the whole effort was pointless. I guess it was.
If you really want to fix the region, they really do need democracy. I know we can’t succeed at forcing it on them, but that’s mainly a result of our partisanship.
Dustin (6d7686) — 10/9/2019 @ 5:30 pm104
“1. You don’t trick the Kurds into leaving themselves vulnerable by pledging your support and then getting them to leave the border unmanned.
a. a US pledge of support at one time is thus a permanent, non-revocable pledge by the US for all time, then?
2-4. You tell Erdogan you aren’t moving your people out and any attack against your people is an attack against the US. Then you stand on the Kurd side of the border and stare him down. Erdogan would not have crossed if we had taken a stand.
a. so we prefer a battlefield ally against a treaty ally, and hope you’re right that Turkey won’t, act;
b. We feed in kids from Iowa and Los Angeles etc., if you’re wrong. And congratulate ourselves on being in another armed conflict of no apparent value to the US.
c. Sounds tough. Sounds dangerous.
d. PS: Have a look at the patience of the US for such events: Vietnam; Iraq….the public will not support them very long. And we don’t have the draft anymore. And sorry, I was never asked if I want to devote US dollars to an “ally” forever, or lose Turkey as a NATO member for the Kurds.
Trump either got backed down by a bluff or he sold the Kurds down the river for something we don’t know about yet.”
a. I think anyone looking at the relative value of the Kurds, versus Turkey, and the practicality and cost–political and financial– of facing off against Turkey, can do it in their head.
Harcourt Fenton Mudd (0c349e) — 10/9/2019 @ 6:49 pm@108
1a. It’s been less than 2 months. I think we could probably have kept it up for just a little while longer, you know.
2a. If they are an ally, they won’t act. If they act, they aren’t an ally and it’s better to know it now than later.
2b. This is always a risk in every diplomatic move that is even slightly risky. If you aren’t a coward, you hold the line.
2c. When you play with the big boys, you have to wear your big boy pants.
2d. If Turkey chose to attack a fellow NATO ally over the Kurds, that would be their choice. And if they did, they wouldn’t be much of an ally.
extra a. You do it right, you get both. Now we will have lost the Kurds, Turkey (TURKEY!) thinks they can walk over us and the entire ducking world thinks we are dishonorable cowards (and they’d be right). Nice play. For Turkey.
Nic (896fdf) — 10/9/2019 @ 7:06 pmWhen Trump is impeached and removed, I think it would be very wise to lock him up incommunicado in Gitmo so he won’t be able to give all our nuclear codes to Putin or Xi or Kim or all of them and who knows whom else. That’s what I think.
nk (dbc370) — 10/9/2019 @ 7:10 pmHFM, you are basing your views on the idea that “Turkey in NATO” is a good thing. I tend to disagree, especially with an authoritarianism Islamist who is hostile to our other major ally in the area (Israel).
I’d just tell the Kurds they can have their state if they accept the fact that none of it will come from Turkish ruled areas. And tell the Turks they will just have to live with the Kurds as neighbors, period.
Kishnevi (31ec7b) — 10/9/2019 @ 7:13 pmI was curious to see if there’s been any reaction from the Israelis. So far none…whether because of Yom Kippur or other factors (like the fact they’re still trying to put together a government coalition).
But there was this
Kishnevi (31ec7b) — 10/9/2019 @ 7:16 pmhttps://www.timesofisrael.com/live-stream-of-german-synagogue-attack-shows-brutal-yet-bumbling-assault/
Maybe Trump could keep his word for more than a few weeks? The timing is so close and helps Turkey clear out the NE with the Kurds having abandoned strategic positions. Clearly the “safe zone” promise was made in bad faith. It was a deceptive promise of truce. You can’t defend that. These people fought and many of them died fighting ISIS with our promise of alliance, and we used the trust build in that war to screw them.
Time for what’s left of the GOP to ask Pelosi to vote on impeachment ASAP. Let’s get this over with.
Dustin (6d7686) — 10/9/2019 @ 7:22 pmI don’t think people realize how big the NBA is in Turkey. Can’t jeopardize that over some middling Kurds.
Munroe (53beca) — 10/9/2019 @ 7:23 pmDescribing Jerry Falwell Jr. as a “prominent evangelical leader” is a hoot. He has no religious degree, but is lawyer who has been involved in self-dealing and nepotism with university funds and property, as well as some very unChristian activities with his wife. He is also a practicing hypocrite:
According to several people with direct knowledge of the situation, Falwell—the president of a conservative Christian college that frowns upon co-ed dancing (Liberty students can receive demerits if seen doing it) and prohibits alcohol use (for which students can be expelled)—was angry that photos of him clubbing made it up online.
No wonder he and Trump are best buddies.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/09/09/jerry-falwell-liberty-university-loans-227914
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/09/10/jerry-falwell-nightclub-photos-miami-228054
Rip Murdock (ad4321) — 10/9/2019 @ 7:23 pmLOL
That was a good one.
Dustin (6d7686) — 10/9/2019 @ 7:28 pm“HFM, you are basing your views on the idea that “Turkey in NATO” is a good thing. I tend to disagree, especially with an authoritarianism Islamist who is hostile to our other major ally in the area (Israel).”
Although they’ve been mostly a disappointment under Erdogan’s leadership, still probably a damn sight more valuable than Greece in the alliance.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/9/2019 @ 7:37 pmAfter the Kurds, who will be betrayed next?
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/08/world/middleeast/israel-us-syria-kurds.html
Rip Murdock (ad4321) — 10/9/2019 @ 7:38 pmRalph Reed’s new book:
According to the book’s description, obtained by POLITICO, the original title for the book was “Render to God and Trump,” a reference to the well-known biblical verse, “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s.” The message from Jesus in Matthew 22, has been used in contemporary politics to justify obedience to government — or in the case of Reed’s book, to Trump.
In his book, Reed will “persuasively” argue evangelicals have a duty to defend the incumbent Republican leader against “the stridently anti-Christian, anti-Semitic, and pro-abortion agenda of the progressive left,” according to the description.
He will also rebut claims by religious and nonreligious critics that white evangelical Protestants “revealed themselves to be political prostitutes and hypocrites” by overwhelmingly backing Trump, a twice-divorced, admitted philanderer, in 2016.
https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/09/ralph-reed-trump-book-040920
Rip Murdock (ad4321) — 10/9/2019 @ 8:00 pmI’d be happy to do so if it is done in good faith. Do you think Ukraine agrees with you?
NJRob (ba88af) — 10/9/2019 @ 8:17 pmIt’s so huge that Erdogan has harrassed Turkish NBA player Enes Kanter, and accused him of “terror ties”.
Paul Montagu (88b43e) — 10/9/2019 @ 8:35 pmSac Kings used to have Hedo Türkoğlu, a damn good player.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/9/2019 @ 8:44 pmRip Murdock (ad4321) — 10/9/2019 @ 7:38 pm
Not before 11/2020. Kurds don’t vote in US elections, but Americans who have made aliyah do vote, and while small in number, they are generally very proTrump and have strong influence on Americans Jews who haven’t made aliyah.
Kishnevi (7595ea) — 10/9/2019 @ 8:53 pmNote to Pat Robertson. Romans 13:1 says all leaders are appointed by God. This is one of those “uncomfortable” verses, because if “all” means all, that means even the most evil and corrupt have been chosen by the Almighty. The “Heavenly mandate” isn’t decided by any human, least of all cash-grabbing self-promoting televangelists.
JRH (52aed3) — 10/10/2019 @ 3:56 amI suspect, in fact I’m almost certain, that St. Paul was trying to save the most zealous of the early Christians from Nero’s tunica molesta, an old Roman punishment for arsonists which became notorious under Nero for its use against Christians who may or may have not desecrated pagan shrines.
nk (dbc370) — 10/10/2019 @ 5:22 amPaul had a network of informants in the imperial court
narciso (d1f714) — 10/10/2019 @ 6:41 amThat was the conjecture in taylor caldwells novel, i dont quite buy it
narciso (d1f714) — 10/10/2019 @ 6:47 amI initially thought he was second-rate version of Stoyakovich, but Turkoglu has had a good NBA career.
Paul Montagu (88b43e) — 10/10/2019 @ 7:07 amErdogans persecuting kanter was obvious last yeae
narciso (d1f714) — 10/10/2019 @ 7:23 am@125. Interesting, nk. my Trump-loving relatives love to use that verse to justify everything Trump does and says 🙂
JRH (52aed3) — 10/10/2019 @ 8:02 amI mad for this gay((
Alex (e8b4e7) — 10/10/2019 @ 8:17 amYou can also remind them of the older Scripture:
As well as Christ’s admonition to the Apostles
to help them better understand what St. Paul might have intended.
nk (dbc370) — 10/10/2019 @ 8:18 amWhile the left uses the church to sell abortion, singlepayer and disarmament, and the pontiff cant get a clue even if it was given for free?
narciso (d1f714) — 10/10/2019 @ 8:31 amBe better, not bitter.
DRJ (15874d) — 10/10/2019 @ 8:42 am82. BuDuh (b9b9a0) — 10/9/2019 @ 4:26 pm
It’s more scary than the idea of Turkey murdering prisoners of war. For a similar reason, it’s argued that letting Syrian refugees languish in refugee camps means that children growing up there will become terrorists. There need to be several more steps for that to happen.
Sammy Finkelman (5b302e) — 10/10/2019 @ 9:33 am93. Kevin M (19357e) — 10/9/2019 @ 4:59 pm
The great and powerful Wizard of Oz has told us that if Turkey goes too far, and he’s not letting them know what exactly that is, he’ll wreck their economy, and now he told us how:
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1181553630354259968
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1181553636444426240
Sammy Finkelman (5b302e) — 10/10/2019 @ 9:48 amhttps://www.nationalreview.com/2019/10/turkey-and-the-kurds-its-more-complicated-than-you-think/
All of this.
whembly (fd57f6) — 10/10/2019 @ 10:47 amThe fact of the matter is, if he’d just kept 50 to 100 troops there, (really more) that would have been enough to stabilize the situation – and what is point of letting bad things haopen and then punishing Turkey? How is that a good outcome?
Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca) — 10/10/2019 @ 11:04 amTo me, the problem is that Trump acts precipitously, even rashly, and does not think things through. It may or may not be wise to exit Syria, but doing it this way puts the Kurds who helped us and many civilians in danger. It also risks releasing dangerous terrorists who can find refuge in the area.
Using American power in ways that knowingly ignores collateral damage may be legitimate but it is not good for America’s interests. I suspect that, while foreigners in the future will still trust America and want American help, I doubt our traditional allies will trust Trump.
DRJ (15874d) — 10/10/2019 @ 11:07 am#111
steveg (354706) — 10/10/2019 @ 2:01 pmAfter Trump leaves the WH in early 2025 someone in the press will write a breathless sensationalist article, quoting whistleblowers who heard from someone who might know something about what someone else said about how these other guys had to change all of the nuclear codes as Trump was leaving due to deep and wide reaching national security concerns. It will be one paragraph of obvious, of course they change the codes, its not like every President since Ike has shared the same code, but the footnotes will detail the great concern and the great danger we’d been in as they scrambled to keep our country from plunging into the abyss like a Peruvian school bus.
72 hours later everyone will finally realize it was all just routine protocol and then come up with a story about how Melania might have stolen a gravy boat from Camp David…. because “we cannot find it!!!!”
Dustin, “the Kurds” who control this strip of Syria – a collection of ideologues who have been armed and supported by Damascus over the decades – have done appalling things to political dissenters and confessional minorities under their care. They have made a point of attacking Turkish Kurdish settlements and army outposts across the border (a big thing in the 90s was the deliberate targeting of village teachers) and they murder ex-members in Europe on a regular basis.
Virtually every sin that the Turkish state has committed against Kurds has been committed by the SDF and its affiliates in north and eastern Syria, against “their own people” and others, and that includes destruction of villages and resettlement of populations. Turkish and Iraqi Kurds, with their own concerns about central authorities in Ankara and Baghdad, are well aware of the atrocities that have been perpetrated by Syrian Kurdish militants and don’t allow these groups to speak for them. The estimated 300,000 Syrian Kurdish refugees in Turkey might also have some views about “Rojava” and its implications for their safety and those of their relatives.
That American foreign policy commentators who should know better are apparently unaware of this ugly history is unfortunate. Trump’s habitual unpredictability and oafishness hardly helps, but it doesn’t really excuse it either.
JP (24566b) — 10/12/2019 @ 10:38 amI’d just tell the Kurds they can have their state if they accept the fact that none of it will come from Turkish ruled areas. And tell the Turks they will just have to live with the Kurds as neighbors, period.
Kishnevi (31ec7b) — 10/9/2019 @ 7:13 pm
Yes, this is how I see it as well. The Turks may well find out, the hard way, that the Kurds are there to stay.
felipe (023cc9) — 10/12/2019 @ 10:45 amTime for what’s left of the GOP to ask Pelosi to vote on impeachment ASAP. Let’s get this over with.
Dustin (6d7686) — 10/9/2019 @ 7:22 pm
I think so, too. But if history has taught me anything about politics, it is that nothing is ever over. I wish I could compel all of Congress to wander for 40 years in the desert. they are a stiff-necked people.
felipe (023cc9) — 10/12/2019 @ 10:49 am“I wish I could compel all of Congress to wander for 40 years in the desert. they are a stiff-necked people.”
They have to be stiff-necked, how else will they get their heads so far up their backsides?
Colonel Haiku (111e13) — 10/12/2019 @ 10:53 am“Describing Jerry Falwell Jr. as a “prominent evangelical leader” is a hoot. He has no religious degree…”
First, no one is perfect.
felipe (023cc9) — 10/12/2019 @ 11:43 amSecond, no one is perfect.
Third, as far as a degree is required to be a religeous leader:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckdevore/2018/12/07/paris-is-burning-over-climate-change-taxes-is-america-next/?fbclid=IwAR2-JCoFtPTPp77e0DiFknRDLTaOxGPAK0E-3j6RrwU_Y9kFxty1lo7ZCB0#5b0e7739632e
narciso (d1f714) — 10/12/2019 @ 11:50 amIn my advanced years, I hold my remaining time as precious. So when I saw the wall-o-text at #137, I scrolled down to see the author’s name. The name “whembly” has proved, to me, reliable, reasonable, and of such good faith that I read the whole comment. It was worth it. Thank you, Whembly. I found your thoughts to be well ordered, constructive, and ultimately persuasive.
felipe (023cc9) — 10/12/2019 @ 11:56 amColonel Haiku (111e13) — 10/12/2019 @ 10:53 am
felipe (023cc9) — 10/12/2019 @ 12:08 pmHeh, amen, brother.
narciso (d1f714) — 10/12/2019 @ 11:50 am
That’s just evidence of someone pushing the Overton window. $49 tax/gal too much? ok, let’s make it $10.
felipe (023cc9) — 10/12/2019 @ 12:17 pm