Patterico's Pontifications

9/24/2019

Update: Trump, Biden And Pelosi Moving Into Position (UPDATE ADDED)

Filed under: General — Dana @ 12:00 pm



[guest post by Dana]

The principal players are getting into position.

From the Biden camp today:

Joe Biden, in a Delaware speech today, is expected to say Congress has “no choice but to impeach” if Donald Trump doesn’t fully comply with ongoing investigations, including into Ukraine.

While the remarks are not as forceful as some of Biden’s Democratic competitors in the 2020 race, his comments mark a shift by the former vice president, who said on Saturday said he was not yet ready to call for impeachment.

“He’s going to make the point that Trump’s latest abuses are on top of all of his prior abuses,” said an aide with the Biden campaign. “He’s going to call on Trump to comply with all of Congress’ outstanding, lawful requests for information — in the Ukraine matter, and in the other investigations. And if Trump does not comply, Congress has no choice but to impeach.”

Further, facing increasing pressure from her Democratic caucus, Nancy Pelosi, who has been resisting moves toward impeachment, has been polling her leaders to see where they stand on the issue of impeachment. She is expected to make an announcement later today after discussing options with leadership:

Fox News reports that a Democratic aide said of Pelosi: “She’s all but out of options”.

And finally, this morning Rep. John Lewis called for an impeachment investigation into President Trump:

In an emotional speech on the House floor, Rep. John Lewis, D-Ga., called for an impeachment investigation, saying he “has waited.”

“Sometimes I’m afraid to go to sleep for fear that I will wake up and our democracy will be gone, will be gone, and never return,” he said. “This administration demonstrates complete disregard and disdain for ethics, for the law and for the constitution. They have lied under oath, they have refused to account for their action and appear before (a) legislative body, who have the constitutional right to inquire about their activities.”

He added: “We cannot delay. We must not wait. Now is the time to act.”

“The future of our democracy is at stake. There comes a time when you have to be moved by the spirit of history to take action to protect, preserve the integrity of our nation,” he continued. “I believe, I surely believe the time to begin impeachment proceedings against this president has come. To delay or to do otherwise would betray the foundation

Note:

There are now 164 House Democrats who have signaled strong support for possible impeachment proceedings. (235 Democrats and 198 Republicans are in the House, with one independent — and a majority would be required to successfully impeach the president. An unlikely two-thirds vote in the GOP-controlled Senate would be needed to convict and remove the president.)

UPDATE: Nancy Pelosi announced a formal impeachment inquiry of President Trump this afternoon:

“This week the president has admitted to asking the president of Ukraine to take actions which would benefit him politically,” Pelosi said.

“The actions of the Trump presidency revealed the dishonorable fact of the president’s betrayal of his oath of office, betrayal of our national security, and betrayal of the integrity of our elections,” she continued. “Therefore, today I am announcing the House of Representatives is moving forward with an official impeachment inquiry.”

Download the NBC News app for breaking news and politics

Pelosi said she was formally directing the House’s six committees that have jurisdiction over impeachment, oversight and other related matters to “proceed with their investigations under that umbrella.”

“The president must be held accountable,” she said. “No one is above the law.”

Trump responded to Pelosi’s announcement:

(Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.)

–Dana

150 Responses to “Update: Trump, Biden And Pelosi Moving Into Position (UPDATE ADDED)”

  1. Given that everything is in a state of flux, I’ll make efforts to keep updating the post.

    Dana (05f22b)

  2. “The President will release transcripts…”

    Welcome to 1974.

    History rhymes.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  3. This isn’t about impeachment. It is, as always, about keeping him on his back feet and running out the clock on his Presidency. Trump’s challenge to the global establishment must be crushed.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  4. Trump has two options now:

    1. Persevere Bull through and win re-election, then stuff all this down their throats, or

    2. Resign now, with a backroom deal, and let someone else carry out the will of the Party, with Trump as the martyr.

    I’d prefer the second.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  5. There was more than just a single phone call the whistleblower reported on, so Trump’s release of one transcript carries little meaning. It’s a deflection, an attempt to turn peoples’ attention away from the fact that Trump is still stonewalling on the release of the ICIG report.
    A panel on the Senate Intel Committee is going to interview the whistleblower (link). This will out, sooner than later.

    Paul Montagu (f2c051)

  6. If there’s anyone who will thrive under impeachment proceedings it will be Trump. He’ll love it. Basking in the attention, troll-tweeting in the morning, Hannity and Carlson running cover. Oh it’s going to be glorious.

    JRH (52aed3)

  7. The “How Dare You” never trumpers can’t beat orange man. lmao

    mg (8cbc69)

  8. @4. The Big Dick would have ‘bulled’ through– until he learned support in the Senate evaporated.

    There is no evidence that the current GOP Senate majority has any interest in no longer carrying water for our Captain. If it actually comes to a televised trial, it would be highly entertaining watching Cruz, Cornyn, McConnell and the ever effervescent, bayberry-scented-center-square-to-block Lindsey Graham defend Trump as the Republican Party abandons the “rule of law” to embrace ‘allegiance ruled by expedience’ for judgeships – courtesy of the great Tom Lehrer.

    He’ll love the ratings and ride to re-election.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  9. #8

    You may be right on the GOP, but the suburban Republican women will not sign off on term #2. Which ought to make you happy.

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  10. Appalled…you forget the calvacade of clowns currently competing for the Democratic nomination.

    None of them inspire.

    kishnevi (496414)

  11. #10

    In my many years of paying attention, at no time did a large number of folks running for president look like anything than a cavalcade of clowns. Our system drives candidates to make the most awful collection of promises in the primaries.

    Whoever wins will manage to get some impressive gravitas.

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  12. Oh no, teh walls are clsoing in on Trump this time!111.

    Just wait till we get that transcript. Of course, Trump will have “Doctored” it, so we will need have the original inspected by totally objective Democrat Operatives. And even if they find nothing, that still means Trump was crooked and bad. We need to have meetings in Congress with the Whistleblower. And anyone who knew the Whistleblower, and anyone who knew anyone who knew the Whistleblower

    Because Orange man bad. Just remember that.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  13. Queen nancy I will do what ever it takes to stay on the throne! Sorry establishment donor class but liberal base tells me shape up or ship out!

    lany (b374c9)

  14. Needless to say the backstabbing RiNO’s in the so-called Intelligence Committee are trying to support a Democrat investigation. We need a “Bi-partisan” look at this. Remember how Burr deferred to Warner on Trump-Russia? He’s doing it again. Anything to trash Trump – indirectly.

    BTW, where is their Trump-Russia report? ‘member how Don Jnr had to testify because the Senate intel committee in JUne because was going to get Intel Committee was trying to get its Russia-Trump report out by August? Well, where is it?

    rcocean (1a839e)

  15. @9. Depends on where those suburban women lay within that pesky ol’Electoral College thingy. Last time ’round he lost the popular vote but won thanks to it.

    The problem here is there’s no viable, energetic and equally entertaining challenger.

    Would you prefer a lying old man railing at the crabgrass ‘“cause here’s the deal, folks, this is the United States of America!!!” [WTF?] — or a lying old man chipping out of that crabgrass with his 9-iron and insisting on camera it’s ‘fake news’ that there is any growing on his golf courses.

    In this era, Americans don’t want to be governed; they wish to be entertained.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  16. Is Mueller still available? Lets start Mueller Ukraine!

    rcocean (1a839e)

  17. Yes, I yearn for the days when we had grown-up Presidents getting lewinsky’s in the White House. Or lying under oath. Or starting useless wars. Or playing endless games of golf, BB, and smoking cigarettes. To have gone from Giants like Obama and Bush II to Trump…so sad. If only, Hillary had been elected. Or Mitt had Run again. Now, there is a man.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  18. mittens/how dare you teen/2020

    mg (8cbc69)

  19. Here’s what I’ve discovered in the last 2.75 years. No matter how crazy left the New York Times and WaPo are, Conservatism Inc. will keep rushing left to keep up with them. They always have to hit that sweet spot of Liberals sometimes wrong, Trump ALWAYS wrong. Its tough being “reasonable”.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  20. No need for Mueller they have Barr in place to whitewash the whitewash.

    mg (8cbc69)

  21. @#6. Yep.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  22. #15 —

    I think there are plenty of such women in Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania. And I can see North Carolina or Georgia surprising this election.

    Lurking here can distort your perception on how America really feels. (As can, in the opposite direction, Twitter). As far as the Trup Presidency goes, we are in the third season of StarTrek, the last season of Dexter…you get the drill. And we still have never had the very special Infrastructure episode.

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  23. BTW, I do not think it’s a sure thing the Senate will acquit. A number of GOP Senators will vote AYE, however sadly. I’d be surprised if any Democrat voted to acquit.

    Romney, Collins, Lee, Murkowsky, Graham, Cassidy, Gardner, Paul, Rubio, Sasse, Hoeven, Capito, Portman, Sullivan, Lankford, Tillis, Toomey, Moran, Cochran, Alexander and Tim Scott have all been more critical of Trump than supportive. Some very critical.

    Yes, they’d all have to vote to convict, but it’s not IMPOSSIBLE they would depending on the charges and the public mood. So far I’ve not seen any criminal charge that merits impeachment (censure, perhaps).

    Impeachment on the basis of temperament, suitability, character, irrationality or being too-stupid-for-words is always available. Being crazy and in control of nuclear weapons IS a high crime, just not sure whose high crime.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  24. @13. She began her comments at a previously scheduled Atlantic referencing JFK; shades of Rotary-Phone-Joey.

    JFK? Seriously???? The stink of these old major party farts linger too long on the stage.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  25. “If there’s anyone who will thrive under impeachment proceedings it will be Trump.”
    JRH (52aed3) — 9/24/2019 @ 12:45 pm

    Kavanaugh is the big winner. The laser pointer is off him for now, and the little kittens are doing what kittens do.

    Munroe (53beca)

  26. I think the Dem timetable is to run the impeachment through next October, although if they REALLY wanted to get rid of him, they’d do so by the end of this year so the GOP could choose a candidate. But I think it’s more about the Dem base.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  27. Kavanaugh is the big winner. The laser pointer is off him for now, and the little kittens are doing what kittens do.

    Trump will find a way to get the SC to rule on impeachment.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  28. Here’s the real dilemma of impeachment: Trump is divisive. He is clearly missing some hinges. The GOP is losing many voters (not necessarily to the very crazy Democrats, but maybe to TV binging) as a result of Trump, and gaining some others. The old rank and file is not the new rank and file.

    Who does the GOP Senate throw down with? They lose either way in the short term, but the long term doesn’t seem to be with Trump.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  29. @23. Believe they would– if it even comes to a trial. “Criticism” isn’t removal from office. At best they’d cover their a$$es w/a “censure”– but don’t bet on even that. No way they’re going torpedo Trump; particularly those close to re-election. “When you strike at a king…” etc., etc.

    He has a long memory.

    “He’s vindictive as hell, Henry…” – ‘Kid Twist’ [Harold Gould] ‘The Sting’ 1973

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  30. “The President will release transcripts…”

    DCSCA: Welcome to 1974.

    In this case, there are no tapes, only transcripts.

    Because of 1973-4.

    Sammy Finkelman (27cd2c)

  31. 15: or just left alone! I feel saved! Trump’s tweets suck the effort out of the High Tax, Debt Max, Ban Heat, Ban Meat, Ban Cars, Trans Loo, MeToo far left-wing zealots

    Harcourt Fenton Mudd (0c349e)

  32. 5. Paul Montagu (f2c051) — 9/24/2019 @ 12:39 pm

    5.There was more than just a single phone call the whistleblower reported on, so Trump’s release of one transcript carries little meaning.

    There’s oter issues of course.

    Rudolph Guliani was alsmot an official U.S. government envoy.

    But the big question is: Was he after truth or lies, and did he think he got truth, or lies?

    http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/giuliani-suggests-he-was-mission-the-state-department

    [On Hannity] GIULIANI: The State Department called me and said, would I take a call from Mr. Yermak, who’s number two or three to the president-elect, now the president. I was put together with Mr. Earmach. [sic. Should be spelled Yermak.]

    I talked to him he gave me enormously important facts. I conveyed them all to the State Department – unlike the media lies, fake news, I wasn’t operating on my own. I was operating at the request of the State Department.

    mian

    It’s a deflection, an attempt to turn peoples’ attention away from the fact that Trump is still stonewalling on the release of the ICIG report.
    A panel on the Senate Intel Committee is going to interview the whistleblower (link). This will out, sooner than later.

    Sammy Finkelman (27cd2c)

  33. The impeachment effort is kicking up steam because there’s an election barely 13 months away and NeverTrump’s worst nightmare is having to leave this in the hands of a deplorable electorate. Lordy, can’t have that.

    Munroe (53beca)

  34. “He’s vindictive as hell, Henry…”

    Unlike Nixon.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  35. It seems like a bit of a gamble given the transcript of the phone call is hanging out there as a wild card and the whistleblower will be force to admit that he/she has no first hand information, and the other end of the call contains Ukranians who don’t want to annoy the US in the short term, given that the US is the only nation powerful enough to keep Putin from going all repo man on border areas.

    PS: You are all welcome for the run on sentence

    steveg (354706)

  36. To someone who knows how impeachment proceedings work:

    1. Does Trump or a Trump senator call Hunter Biden and Joe as witnesses to get to the bottom (a), how a kid ousted from the Navy in 2014 is being paid 50K a month from someone in the Ukraine, (b) what Joe did for that? (nothing? Really?)(do we have malfeasance here? )(c), why Eliz Warren didn’t “do something” to stop it (c), how can a US president get such infor w/o enlisting a foreign government?

    2. How will Democrats look in seeking to impeach someone for trying to investigate malfeasance in the highest reaches of government?

    3. How can Hillary/Bill and Obama be dragged back into this? What foreign favors did she do while SOS? (Other than the Uranium Sale State approved when she was there, although I am supposed to believe it wasn’t important enough for her to know about, and $ just flowed thereafter from Russian backed companies for now reason to Bill and the Fdn.)

    Harcourt Fenton Mudd (0c349e)

  37. Breaking news: day-late-and-dollar-short-Pelosi wastes ten minutes announcing the decision to form a committee.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  38. Lordy, can’t have that.

    Not if they see the deplorable electorate choosing a Communist government rather than Trump.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  39. @30. Of course there are tapes, Sammy- the call was recorded and the transcript lifted from same.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  40. It’s a deflection,

    It’s not a deflection – it was the princple accusation of how Trump was supposed to be putting pressure on Ukraine, but it turns out to be almost nothing in itself. and nowehere is theree any indication Trump wants Ukraine to cook up a false case.

    an attempt to turn peoples’ attention away from the fact that Trump is still stonewalling on the release of the ICIG report.

    Well, he might want to do that if it made accusations that are not true. There were legal grounds for considering the complaint not to be made in the right forum.

    A panel on the Senate Intel Committee is going to interview the whistleblower (link).

    Who may not actually know anything beyond the bare facts.

    This will out, sooner than later.

    It probably will. But they should go into everything. And can’t just dismisss Giulani’s accusatons out of hand. Now Giuliani may look a lot worse after they’ve been examined, but they have got to be examined. and then whatever’s false or misleading must be traced back to its source.

    For instance, who was it that first came up with the idea that Joe Biden’s speech to the Council on Foreign Relations on January 23, 2018 contained a boast and an admission of obstruction of justice?
    It’s very important who thought that up. Because anyone really familiar with the speech and the events in Ukraine would know that’s not the case (also anyone with a grain of common sense.)

    That story was too good to be true. It could not possibly mean what it was being touted as meaning. A person simply does not say things like that in a public speech.

    Sammy Finkelman (27cd2c)

  41. #37: The House appoints prosecutors (“managers”) and they call their witnesses as they may. The Chief Justice presides and may rule on procedure, subject to override by a majority vote of Senators. Trump would presumably have defense counsel and witnesses.

    However, the decision is political, the Senate is NOT a jury. No exact crime needs to be proven to anyone, and no Senator needs to vote as a juror would. In the end it’s a test of raw political power and each Senator’s polical calculations.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  42. DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/24/2019 @ 2:12 pm

    Of course there are tapes, Sammy- the call was recorded and the transcript lifted from same.

    No, no, you can have a good senographer taking notes, as in a courtroom, and if there are tapes, I think they routinely destroy the tapes after the transcripts are made. We could check this out. It’s probably public knowledge.

    Sammy Finkelman (27cd2c)

  43. 38. DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/24/2019 @ 2:08 pm

    38.Breaking news: day-late-and-dollar-short-Pelosi wastes ten minutes announcing the decision to form a committee.

    Do you mean she’s taking this away from the House Judiciary Committee, or is it that she doesn’t want this to start off as an impeachment inquiry?

    Sammy Finkelman (27cd2c)

  44. This is just a way for Nadler to get the full house impeachment vote so he can access the Mueller grand jury documents. He can’t get it without the vote.

    mg (8cbc69)

  45. Nadless

    mg (8cbc69)

  46. Tom Brady obstructing justice

    “Tom Brady has clout, and his indignation may have saved the NFL’s 100th season from being ruined by the refs even though he backtracked like he was avoiding Shaq Barrett .

    Yellow flags flew at an alarming rate over the first two weeks of the season, and Shawn Hochuli’s crew called 20 infractions Thursday night in the Titans-Jaguars game — starting on the very first play from scrimmage — that kicked off Week 3.

    With 15 flags thrown in the first half, eight of them for offensive holding, Brady said he’d seen enough and was turning off the game .

    By the time the Bears bamboozled Case Keenum into five turnovers Monday night, officials were throwing half as many flags for offensive holding as they had been before the weekend.”

    steveg (354706)

  47. Nad.
    As in half sack

    steveg (354706)

  48. The other 1/2 sack Bolton is probably the whistle blowing crybaby.

    mg (8cbc69)

  49. 37.

    1. Does Trump or a Trump senator

    It’s going to be a House Committee, although one or more of the regular Senate committees (particularly the Intelligence committeee) may get into this. Thw witness list would probably be established by the committee and it matters whetehr awitness askes to be called or not.

    call Hunter Biden and Joe as witnesses to get to the bottom (a), how a kid ousted from the Navy in 2014 is being paid 50K a month from someone in the Ukraine, (b) what Joe did for that? (nothing? Really?)

    It was an emolument in the sense the contained in the United States constitution., Otherwise known as a sinecure. They gave it to Joe Biden’s son because neither Obama or any member of his family or Biden or Biden’s wife could or would take a job like that.

    I had the thought that Biden may not have tried to stop his son very much because he thought maybe his son would commit a crime if he didn’t get a large sum of money.

    What did Biden do in exchange? Nothing. It was insurance.

    The idea was that Biden’s son would see it in his self interest that that company stayed in business. And help might come if it was in trouble. If not, the company had other insurance as well. Like Jeffrey Epstein.

    (c), why Eliz Warren didn’t “do something” to stop it

    That’s not her specialty.

    (c), how can a US president get such infor w/o enlisting a foreign government?

    The queston would better be: Suppose something like that was true – what do you do? If there is something to now, shouldn’t it be known?

    2. How will Democrats look in seeking to impeach someone for trying to investigate malfeasance in the highest reaches of government?

    The question devolves into whether it was legitimate or not.

    Now in 2016 – we all know what happened with Christopher Steele, and comparisons will be made.

    3. How can Hillary/Bill and Obama be dragged back into this?

    Just ask the question.

    Giuliani has bought into the theory, which might even have a little truth to it, that people in Ukraine were trying to hurt Donald Trump’s campaign, because Putin was perceived to be helping Trump. But that’s not corrupt.

    What foreign favors did she do while SOS?

    Big question. That was the reason Bill Clinton arranged for his surprise meeting at the Phoenix airport with Attorney General Loretta Lynch. He wanted to know if he was the subject of a RICO investigation. If she great pains to avoid meeting him the answer would be yes. If she didn’t run away from him, the answer would be no. It was important she not have the opportunity to refuse in advance but have some opportunity to refuse on the spot.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  50. It’s an impeachment inquiry and the House Judiciary Committee will be incharge (although maybe they’ll hire special staff, or maybe not)

    https://nypost.com/2019/09/24/pelosi-launches-official-impeachment-inquiry-into-trump

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  51. podesta and weber, get off, we were naïve to expect justice,

    narciso (d1f714)

  52. Sammy, I think the question was about the Senate trial.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  53. this is the schrodinger complaint, generated by the usual suspects,

    narciso (d1f714)

  54. 52 -Not me narciso – Barr is Deep State – The Whitewash General

    mg (8cbc69)

  55. I’m all for impeachment. Let the poison come out and splash whomever it may. When the posturing gets too annoying, I’ll turn off the electronic and pick up a book.

    nk (9651fb)

  56. This won’t lower the price of gas, or milk or interest rates. It won’t add to your 401K nor increase the value of your home or add to your bank account.

    It’s all just inside-the-beltway games.

    The chattering class, late night comics and the cablers will have fresh fodder to feed on for months. Trump will unleash a climate change level of tweet storms… and Americans will be…
    entertained.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  57. I’ve updated the post.

    Dana (05f22b)

  58. @41 Re: Biden’s speech. “That story was too good to be true. It could not possibly mean what it was being touted as meaning. A person simply does not say things like that in a public speech.”

    Perhaps you haven’t been paying attention to Biden in his (limited by his handlers) appearances in public on the campaign trail the past few months.

    Pete (3aedd6)

  59. Perhaps you haven’t been paying attention to Biden in his (limited by his handlers) appearances in public on the campaign trail the past few months.

    Biden had made a few mistatedments, but this would not be a misstatement.

    If it meant what it is being said it meant, it would make him look very bad. The point is, even before you go into it, a person should realize it can’t mean what’s being touted.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  60. Pelosi chums; Trump feeds; media takes bait; audience entertained!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpG3-hLJTwU

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  61. @61 We will never find the truth about what happened to that prosecutor and why, given the corruption cesspool that is Ukraine and the disarray in our politics.
    However, I also don’t believe that as the point man for the Obama Administration on Ukraine and heavily involved with China policy, Biden was 1) unaware of what his son’s “business dealings” in those countries were, and 2) that Hunter Biden was hired for any reason in those two places other than the possible influence he could have with his father.

    Pete (3aedd6)

  62. BTW, they’ve just released the most unredaced McCabe memos from May 2017. Looks like DAG Rosenstein offered to wear a wire to “entrap” trump. Not only that, but Ron Rosey Rosenstein had 2 Special Counsels lawyer (MUeller of course was one) “On Tap” and ready to hit the ground running. That’s on the day Trump fired Comey. IOW, the SC appointment was prepared before Trump fired COmey.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  63. Laws don’t apply to Deep State.

    mg (8cbc69)

  64. History repeats itself. the first time as tragedy, the second time as farce. This is repeat of Trump Russia and its already a Joke. They’ll get the transcripts and say its not enough. They’ll want to interview people in the call. They’ll want OTHER transcripts of OTHER talks. They’ll get the Whistleblower report. They’ll interview him/her in “secret session” and we’ll get all kinds of whispers and leaks that Trump did something really bad, but we can’t say what because “National security” very “Hush hush, don’t you know” IOW Muler-Trump-Russia all over again.

    Look for the Never trumpers to keep wringing their hands and talking about Trump’s a gonner this time.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  65. The Senate R’s joined Schumer to demand Trump release the WB report. Do the Senate D’s EVER join the R’s and do anything we want? NEVER. Bipartisan = R joining D’s to give them what they want. They never “reach across the aisle” . In this case, its probably because Mcconnell and some R’s are getting paid off by Ukraine. Mitch was VERY CONCERNED the Ukraine wasn’t getting its $$ handout.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  66. So what is the Republican party play on this? Obviously for the Dems, they have reached the point where they believe that not impeaching is likely to be more damaging than impeaching and they’ve played their hand.

    The Republicans, though, they have yet to play and some time to consider their move. Is Trump, regardless of his guilt or innocence, more harmful than good for them at this point, so they will just put on a good show so they don’t look like they are throwing him over, mount a token defense, eat the next 4 years, and come back stronger in 2024, or do they think that the Trump effect is either neutral or is a positive so that they can possibly win in 2020 and not crash in 2024 either? Will they go to the mattresses?

    Obviously the Trump people response will be of course they will go to the mattresses, but we are talking big-time establishment politics here, calculated politics. So what is the real play

    Nic (896fdf)

  67. 56: “Let the poison come out and splash whomever it may.”

    Tiberius Claudius Caesar Augustus Germanicus said it best:

    https://youtu.be/gMKSwcZNpd8

    harkin (58d012)

  68. “Such an important day at the United Nations…”

    LOL

    Dave (1bb933)

  69. @22. Don’t be so sure. A change in the cast-[bye-bye Pence, hello, Haley]- can juice up the show. And just remember, the ‘polls’ had him losing– right up until the November evening he won.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  70. Regardless of what happens the republican party is a joke.

    mg (8cbc69)

  71. The “Rule” of law… Felicity Huffman will do more time than Donald Trump.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  72. The Senate R’s joined Schumer to demand Trump release the WB report. Do the Senate D’s EVER join the R’s and do anything we want? NEVER. Bipartisan = R joining D’s to give them what they want. They never “reach across the aisle” . In this case, its probably because Mcconnell and some R’s are getting paid off by Ukraine. Mitch was VERY CONCERNED the Ukraine wasn’t getting its $$ handout

    The coverup is the crime.

    Congress has the right to view certain things. The President doesn’t have the right to refuse them, even if the demand is motivated by pure partisanship.

    So stonewalling is itself an reason to impeach Trump, even if the underlying conduct was totally legitimate and proper.

    The proper response is therefore not to complain about GOP senators defending the power of Congress to do something the Constitution gives it the power to do. The proper response is to point out that the Democrats had no problems when Obama stonewalled.

    Kishnevi (7c7aed)

  73. #64, Pete (3aedd6) — 9/24/2019 @ 5:00 pm

    We will never find the truth about what happened to that prosecutor and why, given the corruption cesspool that is Ukraine and the disarray in our politics.

    It’d maybe not impossible, or at least something closer to the truth than that Vice President Joe Biden caused him to be fired for personal reasons.

    That said, it is indeed a cesspool, or maybe a wilderness of mirrors, and Rudy Giuliani, as a prosecutor, was never really all that good at getting to the bottom of things when things are that complicated.

    Giuliani was not dishonest, but he was not all that great, although he was better than a lot of others, and then he quit to run for mayor, leaving either less competent, or less honest, or less dedicated underlings in charge.

    And Robert B. Fiske Jr, lawyer for Goldman Sachs, whom Bill Clinton later tried to put in charge of all investigations concerning himself but was thwarted by three federal judges, although not before he had made a report about the Vincent Foster case, outmanuvered everyone.

    Robert B. Fiske Jr successfully headed off one of the two principal investigations of insider trading that Giuliani was pursuing (the other was Michael Milken adnd Drexhal Burnham Lambert)

    This was the case that would have implicated Robert E. Rubin, head of arbitrage trading for Goldman Sachs, for insider trading. He ended the investigation, after Giuliani had left, by inventing a crime that never happened, (that naturally therefore led nowhere) for someone he represented, Robert Freeman, to plead guilty to. (he complained about a leak but I think he’s the one who leaked it. You have to read Den oof Thieves very, very carefully to see this because I don’t think James B. Stewart realizes this But see pages 492-95)

    Sammy Finkelman (27cd2c)

  74. Regardless of what happens the republican party is a joke.

    Tru8mp has made it such. Pointing fingers elsewhere won’t help.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  75. However, I also don’t believe that as the point man for the Obama Administration on Ukraine and heavily involved with China policy, Biden was 1) unaware of what his son’s “business dealings” in those countries were, I think he found out something but not from his son.

    From people in the State Department. Biden knew his son was involved with an unsavory company.

    and 2) that Hunter Biden was hired for any reason in those two places other than the possible influence he could have with his father.

    There really couldn’t be any other reason, but Joe Biden did not know that. He didn’t know if they had maybe found something useful, possibly unethical, but hopefully not illegal for his son to do. (he asked his son if he knew what he was doing)

    I don’t think it dawned on Joe Biden that his son was not hired for himself. Hunter Biden had been a lobbyist, after all.

    Sammy Finkelman (27cd2c)

  76. Felicity Huffman will do more time than Donald Trump.

    DCSCA, do you really think it would be a good idea to start jailing former Presidents? Talk about pouring gasoline on the dumpster fire. We’ll start having elections like India where bombs go off.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  77. One quote from #64 by Pete not set off.

    It should read:

    However, I also don’t believe that as the point man for the Obama Administration on Ukraine and heavily involved with China policy, Biden was 1) unaware of what his son’s “business dealings” in those countries were

    I think he found out something, but not from his son.

    Sammy Finkelman (27cd2c)

  78. Whose pointing fingers? I have consistently said for years the republican party is a joke. Boosh, juanny mac and mittens made it a farce. Trump has never been a republican. Just American.

    mg (8cbc69)

  79. In a Senate impeachment trial, the Senate doesn’t call witnesses, the House managers (and the president alao because they’re not going to have kangaroo court trial) calls witnesses.

    Except that the way they did it in the Clinton impeachment they avoided the time concuming job of hearing witnessess.

    What they did is have only closing statements, which coudl include excerpts from videotaped testimony, and before that Senators could look at the evidence as much or as little as they wanted to.

    Sammy Finkelman (27cd2c)

  80. 81. mg (8cbc69) — 9/24/2019 @ 7:33 pm

    Trump has never been a republican. Just American.

    American, as in the political party of the 1850s?

    Sammy Finkelman (27cd2c)

  81. As if we didn’t already know.

    A senior Trump administration official told Fox News late Tuesday that the administration will release a document showing the intelligence community inspector general found the whistleblower who leveled an explosive accusation against President Trump concerning his talks with Ukraine had “political bias” in favor of “a rival candidate” of the president.

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-impeachment-inquiry-whistleblower-complaint-release-congress-white-house

    Munroe (53beca)

  82. Do you really believe that everyone who has ever come forward with anything or worked on anything that turned out not to be in Trump’s favor is doing it because they are dishonest, rabid partisans from the other side?

    Nic (896fdf)

  83. This isn’t about impeachment. It is, as always, about keeping him on his back feet and running out the clock on his Presidency. Trump’s challenge to the global establishment must be crushed.

    Poor Trump!

    And to think: all he did to prompt this was absolutely nothing ask a foreign leader to investigate his political opponent!

    Kevin: if the guy didn’t act like a fucking moron he wouldn’t be in this situation. Dramatically characterizing him as all put upon is absurd and utterly laughable.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  84. And if your view is that they would come after him anyway, well, if they came after him and he had never given them any reason to, I’d have his back. As it is, he can go to hell.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  85. Do you really believe that everyone who has ever come forward with anything or worked on anything that turned out not to be in Trump’s favor is doing it because they are dishonest, rabid partisans from the other side?

    That is what these people think. Trying to talk them out of it using logic and reason is pointless. Emotions rule their mental lives completely.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  86. Poor Trump!

    And they ruined his important day at the UN too, the meanies.

    Dave (1bb933)

  87. @61 We will never find the truth about what happened to that prosecutor and why, given the corruption cesspool that is Ukraine and the disarray in our politics.
    However, I also don’t believe that as the point man for the Obama Administration on Ukraine and heavily involved with China policy, Biden was 1) unaware of what his son’s “business dealings” in those countries were, and 2) that Hunter Biden was hired for any reason in those two places other than the possible influence he could have with his father.

    This is a reasonable observation.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  88. “And to think: all he did to prompt this was ask a foreign leader to investigate his political opponent!”
    Patterico (115b1f) — 9/24/2019 @ 7:51 pm

    It must be nice when the intel community does this on your behalf, “by the book”.

    Munroe (53beca)

  89. It must be nice when the intel community does this on your behalf, “by the book”.

    Is this supposed to be a justification, or excuse, for Trump’s actions? Those are words, just in the order you’re using them they have no meaning

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  90. We will never find the truth about what happened to that prosecutor and why, given the corruption cesspool that is Ukraine and the disarray in our politics.
    However, I also don’t believe that as the point man for the Obama Administration on Ukraine and heavily involved with China policy, Biden was 1) unaware of what his son’s “business dealings” in those countries were, and 2) that Hunter Biden was hired for any reason in those two places other than the possible influence he could have with his father.

    Noted. Now is it cool for Trump to ask specifically for a foreign country to reopen a closed investigation on Trump’s opponent; or they’d not get the aid congress already granted? There is no question he did it, he’s said he did it, Guily backed him up, SecState has corroborated it. Now, was it OK that Trump did it?

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  91. “Do you really believe that everyone who has ever come forward with anything or worked on anything that turned out not to be in Trump’s favor is doing it because they are dishonest, rabid partisans from the other side?”
    Nic (896fdf) — 9/24/2019 @ 7:49 pm

    Would it be better if they were doing it because they’re smugly partisan, a weasel and a snake ?

    Munroe (53beca)

  92. @94 Did you just attempt to not answer my question by asking what about Patterico’s opinion of Barr?

    Nic (896fdf)

  93. 93
    Fact 1: Trump thought it was a good idea for the new Ukraine President to open an investigation of corruption in the Ukraine govt.
    Fact 2: I have seen repeatedly over the last 4 days that Biden was thoroughly investigated concerning their Ukraine dealings and completely exonerated.

    Fact 1 + Fact 2 = President Trump encouraging the new President of the Ukraine to investigate corruption in the Ukraine govt, would have nothing to do with Bidens political outcome in the United States.

    iowan2 (9c8856)

  94. “Did you just attempt to not answer my question by asking what about Patterico’s opinion of Barr?”
    Nic (896fdf) — 9/24/2019 @ 8:42 pm

    Are you inclined to call out certain verbiage only when it doesn’t fit your narrative?

    Come to think of it, Nic — are YOU the whistleblower???

    Munroe (53beca)

  95. Munroe (53beca) — 9/24/2019 @ 7:40 pm

    The same IG thought the whistleblower’s complaint had enough validity that he thought it needed to go to Congress urgently.

    IOW, whether the whistleblower voted for Hillary or Cruz or whoever didn’t actually matter.

    Kishnevi (954c2e)

  96. @79. Why not!? If he ever does pop somebody on Fifth Avenue, see what happens. Unless a lifetime on ‘double-secret-probation’ fits your pistol instead. The guy has beaten the rap[s] all his life. So ‘catch him if you can.’

    “You know why the Yankees always win, Frank?… ’cause the other teams can’t stop staring at those damn pinstripes.” – Frank Abangale Sr., [Christopher Walken] ‘Catch Me If You Can’ 2002

    ____

    @86. He’s no moron; His act is his own; original. The ‘moron’ is the known plagiarist -a thief- running for a third time and so empty of any rationale why other than, “I’m not him” that he has to steal from other people for content and has been repeatedly gets caught at it.

    “I’ll beat him like a drum!”– is just an echo of: “I’ll whip his azz!!”

    “Here’s the deal, folks! This is the United States of America!!”

    Now there’s a vision for the future – whatever the hell it means.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  97. @97 Parsing that, I see that the answer to my question at 95 is “yes”.

    While I probably could get a fairly high security clearance without too many issues and I do have a coworker who was once recruited by the CIA, I’m afraid that I don’t fit your criteria for the whistleblower in two ways. 1. I am not employed by the federal government. 2. I am not a hyper partisan dishonest person.

    Nic (896fdf)

  98. Meanwhile…..the Des Moines Register discovers cancel culture can also expose hypocrisy and lack of professionalism.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/DMRegister/status/1176705031468457985
    _

    harkin (58d012)

  99. Fact 1: Trump thought it was a good idea for the new Ukraine President to open an investigation of corruption in the Ukraine govt.

    That’s a belief, not a fact, and hardcore Trump supporters are a faith-based community, not fact-based.
    Trump’s “concern” about corruption is selective and self-serving. It’s quite the coincidence that Trump’s feelings of “concern” are solely focused on one investigation of one person in one country, and that the person he wants investigated just happens to be his most likely 2020 political rival.

    Paul Montagu (f2c051)

  100. “Later today I will make an announcement after I meet with my chairmen, my leadership and my caucus.”

    I read that too quickly and thought she said “…my leadership and my circus.”

    Truer words have never been almost spoken.

    Actually I think the Russians did it.

    Patricia (3363ec)

  101. Six committees, hachi machi, pirandellos pursuit.

    Narciso (cf3695)

  102. Suspect Never Trumpers like Romney would love to vote for impeachment and get back to the old timey Washington Generals routine of endless war, senseless spending and unfettered immigration. Now Trump has thus far not really followed through on those things. But even the hint that he wants to change things is enough for the old school GOP to hate him fouling up their arrangements. Romney is Tessio, trying to grab the brass ring by lining up with his partner’s enemies. They do not grasp, and Trump certainly does, is there is no going back to ANY of that. You cannot make common cause with people who really do want to destroy you. The myth of Reagan and Tip O’neill sharing a cocktail at the end of the day was always a myth. Really this hatred began in earnest during Bush Jr.’s term, but there is still a cadre of GOP establishment types that think they can go along and get along.

    Hunter BIden is a blasted fool. I this was so above board, why did he not simply get a check instead of washing it through 2 countries. And Joe Biden,arguably a bigger fool. You go the money, you were out, YOU WON. And it wasn’t enough for his ego. Biden was never all that sharp, but it is past time to golf, play with the grandkids and sip margaritas on the beach(and I hear his former boss has such a place, global warming be damned,a margarita blender and some tequila is great housewarming gift). This campaign has put his family in the crosshairs, not only legal, but of the Left.

    Trump knows now that the deep state will stop at nothing. to end him We spy on our own president; that is a dangerous precedent no matter who the president is.

    Bugg (ebf485)

  103. Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin.

    nk (9651fb)

  104. The writing is on the wall.

    nk (9651fb)

  105. Muck Fichelle Falkin, nothing more than an edumacated Tia Tequila

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  106. We spy on our own president; that is a dangerous precedent no matter who the president is.

    The whistle blower followed the law. They filed a formal complaint internally. They didn’t leak to the media. They didn’t send memo’s to a friend to leak for them. They followed the rules. Than the inspector general, a Trump appointee, reviewed the information and determined that it needed to be shared with Congress. This isn’t the same thing as spying. This is someone following the rules we put in place for when an executive branch employee believes something is wrong.

    After that Trump and his personal attorney made a bunch of public statements that are by themselves cause to suspect crime was committed.

    Time123 (b4d075)

  107. Trump’s “concern” about corruption is selective and self-serving. It’s quite the coincidence that Trump’s feelings of “concern” are solely focused on one investigation of one person in one country, and that the person he wants investigated just happens to be his most likely 2020 political rival.

    Yeah, this is one of the areas I had hoped he might do some good. He wasn’t beholden to traditional Washington. His cult of personality was strong enough that he could afford to offend / push out Republican’s if he wanted to. He could have come and pushed hard to enforce our existing anti-corruption laws. Funded the appropriate parts of the DOJ, funded the SEC, added staff to the IG offices. Used his bully pulpit to name and shame elected officials guilty of self dealing. He could even have proposed new laws to tighten up the stuff that’s legal but smelly, such as the Biden mess could be. But he did none of that.

    Time123 (b4d075)

  108. So stonewalling is itself an reason to impeach Trump, even if the underlying conduct was totally legitimate and proper.

    It is not a good reason to impeach. I agree that congressional oversight is weak and needs to be strengthened. But I think impeachment is the wrong tool for that.

    Time123 (14b920)

  109. Here is a Ukranian point of view of our current scandal. It’s helpful in understanding whether Hunter Biden was ever in any legal jeapordy (no) and how this whole scandal unspooled in Kiev.

    https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/trump-whistleblower-scandal-explained-from-ukraine.html

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  110. 86. Patterico (115b1f) — 9/24/2019 @ 7:51 pm

    all he did to prompt this was absolutely nothing ask a foreign leader to investigate his political opponent!

    The problem is that they’re trying to make that, and that alone grounds for impeachment, characterizing that as trying to enlist a foreign power to help his re-election campaign.

    It doesn’t matter whether or not he tried to force or pressure the foreign power to investigate.

    Yes, there’s that accusation, but the charge is so stated, it works without it!

    It doesn’t matter whether or not the accusations against his political rival are true or not.

    It doesn’t matter whether he thought they were true or not.

    It doesn’t matter whether he thought there was a reasonable possibility they were true or not.

    It doesn’t matter whether or not he was trying to concoct false charges against his rival, or whether he simply hoped for, or expected, only an honest investigation.

    It doesn’t matter whether or not the foreign country thought they were being asked to come up with some charges, or just to get at the truth.

    It doesn’t matter whether or not the foreign country actually started an investigation into whether his political rival had covered something up or not.

    It doesn’t matter whether an investigation would have involved an extraditable offense or something prosecutable in the United States, or whether it merely could hsve conceivably damaged his rival’s reputation.

    It’s all the same: It’s sufficient to remove him just that he tried to get them to investigate his political rival.

    And if the parties were reversed?

    Then they’d say that any attempt to prevent or slow down an investigation, any investigations, including ones by a foreign country, amounted to obstruction of justice.

    And we all know it.

    Sammy Finkelman (27cd2c)

  111. That ignores a judge reopened the investigation into zylochevsky in june,
    https://mobile.twitter.com/TerryDugue/status/1176614226913370112

    Narciso (cf3695)

  112. #115 —

    narciso — I assume you are reacting to me. And I have to ask, by “June”, do you mean “June, 2019″? Or some other June. If it’s June, 2019, what does that have to do with anything?

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  113. 113. At last, we’re getting a source that actually knows something.

    Where did the accusations against Biden first come from? Is the source credible?

    In March 2019, Ukraine’s then-prosecutor general, Yuriy Lutsenko, implied in an interview with the Hill’s John Solomon that Biden had pressured the Ukrainian government to fire his predecessor, Shokin, to protect Burisma Holdings…By burnishing his image in the West, Lutsenko was likely angling to keep his job in a new administration. With little knowledge of Ukrainian politics, Solomon appears to have taken his claims at face value.

    How is it connected to the Manafort case?

    Let’s go back to the second claim Giuliani has made: Ukrainian interference in the 2016 U.S. presidential election to help Trump’s opponent, former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.

    This narrative stems from an article published in January 2017 by the Politico news site, which claimed that Ukrainian officials tried to undermine confidence in Trump’s fitness for the presidency and published documents implicating lobbyist Paul Manafort, who served as Trump’s campaign chair for six months in 2016, in corruption…

    ..Starting earlier this year, Giuliani began to raise the matter in media interviews. At some points, his claims seemed almost incoherent.

    In a May interview with Fox News, Giuliani…was referring to ex-Ukrainian lawmaker Serhiy Leshchenko, a former investigative journalist who used his time in office to back many reformist and anti-corruption initiatives. In May 2016, Leshchenko published information from the Party of Region’s “black ledger,” which showed the party paying Manafort over $12 million off the official books between 2007 and 2012. These revelations would lead to Manafort’s resignation from the Trump campaign in August 2016. Later, he would be sentenced to 7.5 years in prison for tax and bank fraud, amongst other charges.

    Was Leshchenko convicted of interfering in the U.S. presidential election? No, he wasn’t — although a Ukrainian court attempted.

    This goes into other things too.

    Sammy Finkelman (27cd2c)

  114. 113. 115. The Kyiv Post says that two or the four cases against Zylochevsky are still open in some way. It doesn’t say that either or them was closed and then re-opened. Perhaps his name got more directly iinvolved in June.

    There were four criminal cases involving Zlochevsky and subsidiaries of his Burisma Holdings….Two cases prosecuting corruption by officials of the Ministry of Ecology during Zlochevsky’s tenure as minister are active but are not going well, according to the National Anti-Corruption Bureau, which received the cases from the General Prosecutor’s Office in 2016.

    Sammy Finkelman (27cd2c)

  115. Yes they reopened them after z was back in the country and communications with porochenko werr disclosed.

    Narciso (cf3695)

  116. 110. Time123 (b4d075) — 9/25/2019 @ 6:06 am

    They filed a formal complaint internally. They didn’t leak to the media. They didn’t send memoes to a friend to leak for them. They followed the rules.

    Since the complaint was not forwarded to Congress, somebody had to leak to somebody for this to come up in a Congressional hearing, and then further leak to the media.

    And it may not, or the important things may not, have fallen within the purview of the whistleblower protection statute, which doesn’t involve accusations against the president.

    It may have been made in this fashion rather than, say, directly contacting some senior member(s) of Congress, in an attempt to come under that law – and the person who filed the whistleblower complaint may not actually be the person who originally wanted to, but rather someone who decided with other people, that he/she should be the one to handle that hot potato.

    Sammy Finkelman (27cd2c)

  117. narciso @119. Which case, the four the Kyiv Post mentioned involving Mykola Zlochevsky, are you talking about?

    The Kyiv Post artile says he left the country (for Russia, or wss it Belarus?) in 2014 and returned in 2018. So what does that mean? he could be back in legal jeopardy? Biden’s son couldn’t help im in 2018.

    Sammy Finkelman (27cd2c)

  118. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/09/24/democrats-investigation-might-do-more-hurt-biden-than-trump/

    Is it bad when anybody does it? Or, is it only when Trump does it?

    Frankly, I think what we’re seeing is the ugly underside of gutter politics that the wool is being tugged from our eyes.

    whembly (51f28e)

  119. Yes he did, this guy is the biggest player in ukraine, derioasha and firtash are small ball.

    Narciso (cf3695)

  120. 93. Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c) — 9/24/2019 @ 8:05 pm

    Now is it cool for Trump to ask specifically for a foreign country to reopen a closed investigation on Trump’s opponent;

    There never was any investigation into Joe Biden or Joe Biden’s son, although
    Viktor Shokin, who in reality had a universally held reputation of protecting historical cases involving corruption, has claimed that he was going to question Hunter Biden, and furthermore, that. then-Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko told him he was fired because he had a problem with Joe Biden.

    For Biden to arrange for him to be fired as a result of his (supposed) plans to question Hunter Biden:

    1) Hunter Biden would have to know of this.

    2) Hunter Biden would have to have told his father, United States Vice president Joe Biden.

    3) And Joe Biden would have had to act to try to get him fired on his own iniatitive.

    Sammy Finkelman (27cd2c)

  121. 2. 30, 40, 43.

    Re: the released trancript linked @122.

    @DCSCA.

    Ntice it says:

    Notetakers: The White House Situation Room

    No recording mentioned.

    And it says:

    CAUTION: A Memorandum of a Telephone Conversation.· (TELCON) is not a verbatim transcript of a discussion. The text in this document records the notes and recollections of Situation Room Duty “Officers and-NSC policy staff assigned to listen and memorialize the conversation in written form as the conversation takes place. A numper of factors can affect ‘the accuracy of the record, including poor telecommunications connections and variations in accent and/or interpretation.

    The word “inaudible” is used to indicate portions of a conversation that the notetaker was unable
    to hear.

    It’s made like like a court transcript, except that if the court reporter is unable to hear something he/she I think asks the speaker to repeat it. (or not?)

    Sammy Finkelman (27cd2c)

  122. A number of factors also apparently can affect how accurately Google Chrome reads a PDF file.

    Sammy Finkelman (27cd2c)

  123. The first thing Trump asks Zelenskyy [sic] to look into is Crowdstrike. Not clear what this is about 0 this requires an Internet search engine.

    Trump als says:

    As you saw yesterday, that whole nonsetise ended with a very poor performance by a man named Robert Mueller, an incompetent performance, but they say a lot of it started with Ukraine. Whatever you can do, it’s very important that you do it if that’s possible.

    Trump apparently suspects that some of Christopher’s Steels sources were in Ukraine. That’s a new one. Or there may be some more specific allegation that he heard from Giuliani.

    Crowdstrike is the company the DNC hored that traced the hacking to Russia.

    Sammy Finkelman (27cd2c)

  124. Looks like the president is trying to investigate and police the intel guys.

    Isn’t that supposed to work the other way around?

    Munroe (53beca)

  125. Quic custodies custodium, ‘who watches the watchers.

    Crowdstrike could not ascertain the malware was ukrainian, this who mueller relied on.

    Narciso (cf3695)

  126. Next request — transcripts of the calls from Barr and Giuliani to the Ukraine.

    No quid pro quo, I can see, but the who chatter feels very corrupt. You don’t ask the head of sovreign nation for dirt on your opponents. Sheez.

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  127. Like durbin leahy and memendez, oh the journal didnt fill you in on that.

    Narciso (cf3695)

  128. “You don’t ask the head of sovreign nation for dirt on your opponents.”
    Appalled (d07ae6) — 9/25/2019 @ 8:02 am

    Well, who do you ask?

    Halper, Mifsud, Azra Turk, etc. had other commitments.

    Munroe (53beca)

  129. Hardcore liberals and Trump supporters hate fact-checkers, and for the same reasons. But the reality is that, if done appropriately, another word for fact-checking is reporting. This morning, Glenn Kessler reported on the string of false statements regarding Ukraine and Biden and military aid. Such as…
    Trump: “But my complaint has always been — and I’d withhold again, and I’ll continue to withhold until such time as Europe and other nations contribute to Ukraine. Because they’re not doing it; it’s the United States.”
    The truth: Europe is doing it. The EU has given more than twice as much as US.
    Trump: “I’m leading in the polls; they have no idea how they stop me.”
    The truth: Biden beats Trump by double digits, but Trump may be right that the Dems have no idea how to stop him.
    Trump: “The only way they can try is through impeachment. This has never happened to a president before.”
    The truth: Two words, Bill Clinton.
    Trump: “That call was perfect. It couldn’t have been nicer. And even the Ukrainian government put out a statement that that was a perfect call.”
    The truth: The foreign minister demurred in a TV interview, saying that “if they [American investigators] think that our president has been pressured, they can establish this.” He also said the call was “long” and “friendly”, but not “perfect”. Granted it was a Democrat talking, but Zelensky told Senator Murphy that he was pressured to investigate Biden.
    Trump: “There was no pressure put on them whatsoever.”
    The truth: Trump expressly asked Zelensky to investigate Biden.
    Trump: “What Joe Biden did for his son, that’s something they should be looking at.”
    The truth: There’s zero evidence that Biden did anything to protect his son.
    Here’s another truth, and I may have said this before: Trump’s comments should be presumed false until proven true. It’s easier that way.

    Paul Montagu (f2c051)

  130. Ah glenn kessler, the guy who checked out for the first four years of obama

    Narciso (cf3695)

  131. Zelensky does not say to Trump he will concoct charges or give him results he will like.

    He says he won’t protect people.

    I guarantee as the President of Ukraine that all the investigations will be done openly and candidly. That I can assure you.

    The President: Good, because I heard you had a prosecutor who was very good

    [Yes that’s what he heard but it’s not the truth. Also note Trump doesn’t remember his name and Zelensky may not know which prosecutor he is talking about] and he was shut down and that’s really unfair.

    A lot of people are talking about that, the way they shut your very good prosecutor down and you had some very bad people involved. Mr. Giuliani is a highly respected man. He was the mayor bf New York City, a great mayor, and I would like him to call you. I will ask him to call yoti along with the Attorney General.

    Rudy very much knows what’s happening and he is a very capable guy. If you could speak to him that would be great. The former ambassador from the United States, the woman, [Trump can;t remember her name]

    was bad news and the people she was dealing with in the Ukraine were bad news

    [I think she would probably have a different point of view on that. Later, Zelensky agrees that she is bad]

    so I just want to let you know that.

    The other thing, there’s a lot of talk about Biden’s son

    In the bubble Donald Trump is in maybe. that Eiden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great.

    Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it It sounds horrible to me.

    President Zelenskyy: I wanted to tell you about the prosecutor. First df a11 I understand and I’m knowledgeable about it the situation. Since we have won the absolute majority in our Parliament the next prosecutor general will be 100% my person, my candidate, who will be approved, by the parliament and will start as a new prosecutor in September. He or she will look into the situation, specifically to the company that you mentioned in this issue.

    [Trump has not mentioned in this call the name of the company Hunter Biden was involved with.]

    The issue of the investigation of the case is actually the issue of making sure to restore the honesty [sic] so we will take care of that and wi11 work on the investigation of the case.

    On top of that, I would kindly ask you if you have any additional information that you can provide to µs, it would be very helpful for the investigation to make sure that we administer justice in our country.

    With regard to the Ambassador to [sic] the United States from Ukraine [sic] Or are they talking about two different people? Probably not. As far as I recall, her name was Ivanovicli. It was great that you were the first one who told me that she was a bad ambassador because I agree with you 100%.

    Her attitude towards me was far from the best as she admired the previous President and she was on his side. She would not accept me as a new President well enough. [Zelenskyy evidently means her acceptance was not the way it should be. Zelenskyy was a comedian before he was elected president of Ukraine]

    The President: Well, she’s going to go through some things.

    I will have Mr. Giuliani give you a call and I am also going to have Attorney General Barr call and we will get to the bottom of it.

    So Trump is only asking for the truth. I don;t thnk the next few words have adouble meaning.

    I’m sure you will figure it out. I heard the prosecutor was treated very badly and he was a very fair prosecutor so good luck with everything….

    Sammy Finkelman (27cd2c)

  132. Ah glenn kessler, the guy who checked out for the first four years of obama

    That’s an easily provable lie, narc, but your ongoing efforts to whatabout, deflect and make s**t up are noted.

    Paul Montagu (f2c051)

  133. narc:

    Please don’t do the whattabout thing. It’s tiresome.

    We have a representation of what the President did. It’s hardball with a little country in order to benefit his own domestic political situation. Such a patriot, our President is.

    Love to see how you would have reacted if Obama had had a call like this with Netanyahu. (see, I can play whatabout too…)

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  134. narc:

    Please don’t do the whattabout thing. It’s tiresome.

    We have a representation of what the President did. It’s hardball with a little country in order to benefit his own domestic political situation. Such a patriot, our President is.

    Love to see how you would have reacted if Obama had had a call like this with Netanyahu. (see, I can play whatabout too…)

    Appalled (d07ae6) — 9/25/2019 @ 8:31 am

    So, for consistency sake, was Obama’s off-mic to Medvedev that he needed ‘space’on missile defense until after the election… rises to the same level of Trump asking Ukraine to investigate things related to his political sphere?

    whembly (51f28e)

  135. *note: my take on Obama’s hot mic thing, while detestable, is no where near impeachable. It’s politics… even for his own good.

    whembly (51f28e)

  136. Speaker Pelosi had been hesitant to initiate impeachment proceedings because she rightfully saw the political risk involved. She is a shrewd politician and wants to maintain her party’s majority in the House. She waited until a large enough number of members of her caucus called for impeachment to begin proceedings, thus giving her political cover.

    Even then, she did not call for impeachment, although she assuredly would like to; rather, she called for inquiries to draft articles of impeachment. The House has not yet formed a special committee for impeachment. The inquiries conducted by several committees will be coordinated through the judiciary committee, as they should, making Chairman Nadler the point man.

    What the formal announcement of inquiries does is empower the House and its investigative committees. Because the Trump administration has been ignoring subpoenas, withholding evidence and documents, blatantly refusing to provide testimony under oath, and suing to avoid disclosure, now they have no defense in court. The House is asserting its oversight responsibilities. The chairmen of investigating committees can now argue that information, evidence, documents, and transcripts must be disclosed, because its all related to an impeachment inquiry.

    Anyone who thinks this is all based on one phone call to the Ukraine is a fool. It pertains to everything–tax returns, violations of the emoluments clause, fraud, self-dealing, obstruction of justice as outlined in the Mueller report. Trump can sue all he wants, but he will lose in court.

    Trump has previously called for and willingly accepted foreign interference in an election, now he’s coercing foreign interference in an election. That alone warrants impeachment.

    He can scream witch hunt all day long, but the truth will out. Pelosi is playing it smart. Hold committee hearings, air it all out in public, then draft articles of impeachment, and force Republicans to defend the indefensible.

    These next few months will be entertaining, watching Trump squirm. I can’t wait for the Tweet storm. The stammering, irrational excuses spewed on TV by his sycophants. (Giuliani is a worse personal attorney than Cohen, by the way.)

    In the end, this is not about impeaching the president. It’s about exposing him as the fraud and incompetent malignant narcissist he is. And all before the primaries. Gee, isn’t politics fun? Or funny, I should say.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  137. So far the Democrat strategy has been to try to impeach Trump for every candidate of theirs he takes out.
    First Hillary
    Now Biden

    The Democrats have decided that their losses are too hard for them to fathom and Trump winning must be an impeachable offense.

    steveg (354706)

  138. @26. Sammy, love ‘ya, but if you don’t believe there’s a recording of all these calls someplace- at the NSA, CIA– in the Kremlin or on some server in Utah — perhaps even on an ‘Omerosa pocket pen’– then there’s a bridge in Brooklyn available to sell you.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  139. ^126.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  140. curious if i can post from here…tst

    PTw (894877)

  141. So getting “site cannot be reached” from different networks and different devices when trying to post to the ” White House Releases Account of Trump’s Call with Ukraine President” topic. Odd.

    PTw (894877)

  142. works now. never mind.

    PTw (894877)

  143. I am most concerned by the way Washington insiders get away with leaking and turning themselves into whistleblowers.
    You want to turn your 3 hand gossip into a must act by an IG?
    Learn from an attorney exactly how to frame and construct your “complaint”…
    What to learn to leak like James Comey…. get a lawyer and your station to turn your friend into a consultant with FBI clearance so he or she can be told anything, but without the nastiness of signing non disclosures and other paperwork.
    I know, I know, far be it from lawyers to weasel around the laws meant to protect us in order to feather their own nests

    steveg (354706)

  144. Trump tweets, “Such an important day at the United Nations, so much work and so much success, and the Democrats purposely had to ruin and demean it with more breaking news Witch Hunt garbage.”

    “The Democrats purposely had to ruin and demean it…”??

    Reality…… The whistleblower exposed this corruption. The White House and Justice Dept. tried to cover it up. Then the WHITE HOUSE is forced to release it. But the President is saying that it’s the Democrats who are ruining his big day?

    Of course we all know by now that the Emperor has no clothes. It’s understandable that some of you want to avert your eyes. What I don’t get is how FoxNews, Rush and Sean just keep complimenting the new attire.

    noel (f22371)

  145. This burns the narrative that the investigation in Burisma was over by the time Biden got Shokin fired.
    https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/463307-solomon-these-once-secret-memos-cast-doubt-on-joe-bidens-ukraine-story

    steveg (354706)


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