Patterico's Pontifications

9/13/2019

Joe Biden: The, Uh, Constitutional Candidate

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:34 am



Every time I wonder whether I could vote for Joe Biden, I remember how he behaved as the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee during the hearings of good men like Robert Bork and Clarence Thomas. I’m not sure I’ll ever get over that.

But I have nevertheless come to the conclusion that the hair-sniffing old coot is the guy Republicans should hope becomes the Democratic nominee. For one thing, although I think Trump is likely to be re-elected, people have to realize that whoever the Democratic nominee is might win. And Biden is super old, so if he wins, there’s no way he serves a second term.

The other thing is: he’s not as crazy as the rest of them. I’ll give the mic to Matt Welch:

Let us not now pretend that Joe Biden brought anything like coherence to Thursday night’s Democratic presidential debate in Houston.

At some point near the exhausted end of the nearly three-hour affair, the 76-year-old former vice president blurted out within the space of a few seconds the sentences “Make sure that kids hear words,” and “I know Maduro.” Confronted with the Obama administration’s unlovely record on deportation, he just lied about it: “We didn’t lock people up in cages. We didn’t separate families.” And at the close of one particularly free-associative word salad that hopped from the Afghanistan surge to Pakistani bases to weapons inspectors to the authorization for the use of force in Iraq, the perennial presidential contender simply concluded, “I said something that was not meant the way I said it.” We feel you, Joe.

Yet the Democratic front-runner also played a starring role in what was arguably the most clarifying exchange of the night. Moderator David Muir, addressing the cavalier gun-grabber Sen. Kamala Harris (D–Calif.), asked her to address Biden’s recent assertion that “There’s no constitutional authority to issue that executive order when they say ‘I’m going to eliminate assault weapons,'” because, “you can’t do it by executive order any more than Trump can do things when he says he can do it by executive order.”

“Well, I mean,” Harris began, failing to suppress a smug laugh, “I would just say, ‘Hey, Joe, instead of saying no we can’t, let’s say yes we can!”

As the crowd hooted and applauded, Delaware’s favorite son attempted to interject: “Let’s be constitutional! We’ve got a Constitution.” Ha ha, what?

I too found that very striking. Not that Pappy Joe’s record is one of fealty to the Constitution. But the fact that someone is actually bothering to mouth the words, rather than ignore them in a blatant demagogic pander the way the loathsome Harris did last night, is important. I actually think Joe is less likely to simply pen something to grab your guns in a ridiculously unconstitutional matter. And that means something.

Joe Biden is truly the only candidate who doesn’t spend all his time in a debate pandering to the crowd. I find myself warming to the plagiarizing oatmeal-brained old guy.

But then there is his incoherence. My God, the incoherence. Americans simply aren’t going to vote for an old white guy who reminds them on a daily basis that his mind is mush.

Oh.

[Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.]

89 Responses to “Joe Biden: The, Uh, Constitutional Candidate”

  1. One term Joe. Just keeping telling yourself that. One term Joe.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  2. Then he best pick a young Joe (S. Brown, R. Casey, a 2018 suburban congressperson) as VP b/c old+ crazy/”dark” waiting in the wings aint gonna do it for a lot of people.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  3. Tapping prejudice against old folks for Teh Win.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  4. There’s every reason to believe Biden will pick a “person of Color” probably Harris or Booker to be his VP. so there’s a good chance they’d become POTUS since “SLow Joe” will be almost 80 on Jan 2021. Second, Biden’s record is NOT one of moderation or standing up to the Left. His record is one of “appearing” to be moderate. that’s what he’s doing now. His path to the POTUS is by playing the moderate.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  5. I can’t think of one conservative thing about Biden. He was a 100% ADA rating. But i guess if you pine for the days of Obama (who was held in check for 6 years by R Congress) then go for it. Maybe David French and Bill Kristol will make the “conservative case for Biden-Booker” in 2020. After all, Orange man bad.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  6. Trump didn’t embolden only the right-wing crazies. He also emboldened the Democrat crazies. Taught them well, too: “Just lie! If somebody calls you out on your lie, double down, mock him, call him the liar!”

    nk (dbc370)

  7. This is where we are. A moderate Dem is one who has to remind the mob we have a constitution.

    harkin (58d012)

  8. Fixodent for Teh Win!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  9. You look at i am legend debate, and then miss the target.

    Narciso (7658f4)

  10. Anybody who supports an orange fruit-loop who (repeatedly) said he could eliminate birthright citizenship by executive order, ain’t got no face to talk when some Democrat Trump-imitators say they can take away guns by executive order.

    nk (dbc370)

  11. Nk,

    They’ve been doing that for decades or do you not remember “it depends on what the meaning of is is.”

    If anything, they’ve gotten more honest as now they admit they are socialists who want to take away your rights and enslave you.

    NJRob (030960)

  12. They abolished the incandescent light bulb based on some computer models and scare mongering from man bearpig, what wont they do to ward off the skydragon

    Narciso (7658f4)

  13. Trump is no Bob Hope, but for heaven’s sake, he was joking in that clip. (Trump has the occasional moment of self-depracating humor.)

    I worry about how we will all be once Trump is done. The things we will be used to. The constant calling out of people. The expectation of racism and corruption, even if we can’t fairly attribute it to that politician we loathe. The expectation of racism and corruption in people we support, so actual evidence of the same barely makes a dent.

    Appalled (c9622b)

  14. RIP – Edward Mahoney aka Eddie Money

    harkin (58d012)

  15. 14… yes, how IT all falls apart when Trump is gone. No one to point the finger of blame at.

    Silly wabbitz

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  16. I wonder if Trump airbrush tans his belly

    https://amazingribs.com/tested-recipes/pork-recipes/going-whole-hog-what-you-need-know

    I went out with a girl whose mom was a big proponent of “if you can’t lose it, brown it”.
    Not “orange” it.

    steveg (354706)

  17. Young black folks will keep on being murdered in ChiTown by the hundreds and ward politicians will still keep greasing palms.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  18. “My God, the incoherence. Americans simply aren’t going to vote for an old white guy who reminds them on a daily basis that his mind is mush.”

    What was once a petty argument all through eight years of Bush Jr suddenly becomes a salient point.

    Munroe (732181)

  19. It takes courage, munroe…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  20. 15… two tickets one ticket to Paradise

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  21. Courage and an underdeveloped sense of humor.

    Colonel Haiku (e3be5c)

  22. And Biden is super old, so if he wins, there’s no way he serves a second term.

    Well, then, the question of who is his vice president becomes very important.

    I think we can (almost – never say never) safely say now that it won’t be Kamala Harris.

    Sammy Finkelman (8dcc71)

  23. “although I think Trump is likely to be re-elected”

    Whoa, there. What’s the famous saying from Tennessee— or is itTexas?

    Fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me … … you can’t get fooled again.

    Munroe (732181)

  24. “Make sure that kids hear words,”

    I know exactly what that’s all about,

    I know what this is about. The idea that children who have heard more words spoken to them have a higher capacity to learn easily had a higher vicabulary.

    But that didn’t count playing the radio or a record.

    By the way, does he think parents should play Caedmon records – perhaps the Kennedy Nixon debate or is music with lyrics also OK?

    And is music on the radio just the same as talk radio?

    I think the research doesn’t really say that any words, even from people not there, but on television (Biden did pull back on television, like television is specially deficient, but he left the radio) counts the same as from people in the room.

    But Biden or his people aren’t good at putting together and thinking about unrelated research.

    Children who hear a language spoken learn it but not if they only heard it on television.

    But you can’t really blame Biden for getting that research wrong.

    Sammy Finkelman (8dcc71)

  25. “I know Maduro.”

    Well, tjat means he met him. I don’t know, is that untrue?

    Now whether meeting Maduro in person actually adds anything, I don’t know. I think it dds an opportunity to get fooled.

    Sammy Finkelman (8dcc71)

  26. See #2, Sammy…a few of my Facebook feeders got the knives out for Castro (if only Trump could realistically capitalize on that brand of intra-Dem cattiness) and I get the feeling they dont want to scare away the middle with a POC or a crazy as next-in-line. That’s why I say a mini-young Biden or a proven winner in the suburbs.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  27. not for dems, you can have a cigar indian, and they did, thus endeth the lesson,

    narciso (d1f714)

  28. “I said something that was not meant the way I said it.”

    That means that, while at one time, he said something that sounded like he had initially spported Gulf War IIm he hadn’t and that;s not what he meant. he supported the authorization for the use of force on Iraq to put pressure on Iraq.

    The thing is, it did.

    But Saddam Hussein didn’t cave on the inspectors.

    Biden wanted only to bluff, and continue with sanctions.

    Sammy Finkelman (8dcc71)

  29. urbanleftbehind (5eecdb) — 9/13/2019 @ 9:19 am

    That’s why I say a mini-young Biden or a proven winner in the suburbs.

    Amy Klobuchar? That would follow the precedent Obama set of picking someone else who ran in the primaries, but did not get many votes.

    Sammy Finkelman (8dcc71)

  30. The problem with Biden is that if he is the nominee then the Democrats’ division between the old school grifters and the angry socialists is only going to get worse. And I don’t see Biden bridging the gap by selecting somebody like Stacey Adams as his VP.

    Both parties are due for a reckoning as they are rapidly splintering into factions that have trouble getting along with each other and are only united by their disdain for the other side.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  31. I don’t think enough Americans will vote for a woman President to see one elected right now. Someday but not now.

    DRJ (15874d)

  32. JVW,

    We thought that with Obama and Hillary, but Obama found new voters to bridge the gap.

    DRJ (15874d)

  33. 26… just name-dropping Qatar attraction for Dems…

    Colonel Haiku (e3be5c)

  34. 26… star attraction, wow…

    Colonel Haiku (e3be5c)

  35. We thought that with Obama and Hillary, but Obama found new voters to bridge the gap.

    I think Obama had the intersectionality cred to bring Democrats together, in a way that Dinosaur Joe most certainly will not. That’s why he will probably want a minority woman as his VP. Too bad Kamala has been such a jerk to him these past several months, but it would surprise me at all if she tries to weasel her way back into his good graces.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  36. True Conservative® Max Boot for the Authentic Win… https://static.pjmedia.com/instapundit/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/BOOT-600×204.png

    Colonel Haiku (e3be5c)

  37. Harris is running neck and neck with Castro for most unlikeable.

    Colonel Haiku (e3be5c)

  38. you can’t make this up,

    https://t.co/N9APEGjNzY

    narciso (d1f714)

  39. tulsi’s absence was strongly felt don’t you agree, if these yutzes can get on the leaderboard,

    narciso (d1f714)

  40. @32. ‘I don’t think enough Americans will vote for a woman President to see one elected. Someday but not now.’

    Revisit the popular vote totals in the last general DRJ; by that metric, more than enough Americans have shown they can, will and did vote for a ‘woman President;’ it was the structure of an arcane system that denied the popular vote winner the election.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  41. 6. rcocean (1a839e) — 9/13/2019 @ 7:57 am

    I can’t think of one conservative thing about Biden. He was a 100% ADA rating.

    He often took policy positions because he was supposed to, but he tried to be rational and tried to avoid conflicts with reality, and tried to limit the damage.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  42. CNN’s post-debate meet w/some Iowa voters said it all; they’d sat through the three DNC debates and most all, when asked last night, said they’d ‘caucus’ for Warren.

    It’s gonna be “The Scold vs., The Old;” Margaret Hamilton vs., W.C. Fields. Bet on Bill for the win.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  43. 32. DRJ (15874d) — 9/13/2019 @ 9:56 am

    I don’t think enough Americans will vote for a woman President to see one elected right now. Someday but not now

    I think the vast vast, majority, are way past the point of caring.

    It is an evaluation of the individual.

    The only limiting factor may possibly be that there may be alightly higher, or harder to remove, perception of inexperience, which every candidate starts with.

    In the primaries, when you are talking about making the debates, women have a slighht advantage because some women tend to name them more becase they are interested in this idea of awoman president or governor or whatever. I’m talking about reaching 2% or 3%.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  44. 27. POC? I had to look it up. POC = Person of Color.

    It would be a gimmick, and actually possibly tend to turn people off including gerting peole to worry about distorted government policy.

    Biden is actually counting on Obama to keep the black vote during the primaries. As long as that doesn’t break for someone else, he’s really got a solid base, and black elected officials are mostly solidly in his corner – because they want to win, for one thing, and because what have they got to do with Kamala Harris or Cory Booker? Or anyone else that’s a “minority”?

    The argument for the general election would be turnout but would be a guess and give up other advantages from naming someone else. Low turnout of black voters may not be the weakness they are worrying about. And besides, once people vote in one election, they continue to vote in similar elections. That’s why people over age 60 have high turnout.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  45. @31. The JoeyBee takeaway from last night: “‘JFK, MLK’… and ‘record players.'”

    Which is more entertaining on camera:

    Biden yelling at the crabgrass or Trump chipping out of it w/a 9-iron and denying there is any growing on his courses to begin with.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  46. “To be clear, they should have them. If you purchased that AR-15, if you own it, keep it. Continue to use it responsibly. I think Texas has a real opportunity to lead on this issue right now, because we so jealously guard that Second Amendment. We believe in it, we’ll defend it.”Beto O’Rourke 2018

    All my guns have been involved in less crimes than Beto’s car.
    _

    harkin (8f010c)

  47. Kind of funny watching the radical Dems saying Joe is too frail to be President three years after supporting a nominee who could barely give a speech without a coughing fit and who was thrown into a van like a sack of spuds.

    harkin (8f010c)

  48. 13. Narciso (7658f4) — 9/13/2019 @ 8:10 am

    what wont they do to ward off the skydragon </blockquote. the key point is that it's got to be personal sacrifice, but not intolerable, at least for the people who propse this; and it should sound easy to do (because you can say in ashort sentence) but be very hard to do, so they can make a career out od campaigning for it.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  49. Talk about leftists groups:

    And then we have agroup here now that is against killing rats. Drowning them in new trap addvised by Brooklyn orough President Eric Adms is being critcized on he grounds that there’s no crueler way to kill amammal.

    An activist group (not yet dominant) proposes sterilizing them, like mosquitoes I suppose. I suppose they’d release sterilized rats into the wild.

    https://nypost.com/2019/09/05/brooklyn-bp-eric-adams-has-new-secret-weapon-in-rat-war-and-the-bodies-to-prove-it

    https://www.brooklynpaper.com/stories/42/37/dtg-animal-advocates-react-rats-2019-09-13-bk.html

    But while Adams, himself a vegan, hailed the traps as “humane” because of their rapid rat-killing abilities and the boozy delirium they induce, activists argued that the contraptions cause the rodents undue suffering.

    “Rats are intelligent, sentient animals who feel pain, and suffer, just like all other animals,” the activists wrote in the letter, signed by dozens of animal rights and veganism advocates. “Rats live emotionally rich lives, form strong inter-species bonds, have rituals, and mourn family losses.”

    Rather than kill the rats, the animal lovers proposed that the city work to improve rat-proof infrastructure, implement sterilization programs, and even teach residents to see the bright side of life with rats and live in harmony with the pesky critters.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  50. Kamala Harris was almost bulled into advocating the banning of plastid straws at the CNN town hall on climate policy Now why didn’t she want to doit?

    Because plastic straws have a use.

    Nobody wants to reduce plastic used in industry. That has a use I guess people will say.

    So do plastic bags and plastic straws. They make peoples’ lives better. They really do, And that is legitimate. And the plastic in the United states doesn’t get into the ocean for the most pat.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  51. Robert “Beta” O’Rourke: looks like Bobby, drives like Teddy, talks like me in 8th grade Spanish class.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  52. 32: They will if the woman is like Thatcher, but then the left will denounce her as inhuman etc.

    Harcourt Fenton Mudd (0c349e)

  53. Wonder how them animal activists feel about the potential for an ‘emotionally rich life’ of a fetus or just-born baby……

    harkin (8f010c)

  54. And what else to ward off the skydragon?

    No drilling, no fracking no more natural gas which means create onstacles like nor approving pipelines. In New York City it may soon not be possible to add new gas connections.

    https://www.utilitydive.com/news/national-grid-says-no-new-nyc-gas-customers-until-state-approves-pipeline/555283/

    https://insideclimatenews.org/news/09092019/natural-gas-pipeline-rejected-new-york-climate-change-national-grid-wililams-electrification

    National Grid, which is under intense scrutiny in its home market after a major blackout last month, contends it needs the pipeline to meet a 10 percent increase in gas demand over the next decade as New York’s economy grows and building owners abandon oil as a source of heat. A coalition of environmental groups have pressured Cuomo to block it.

    And yes to electric cars. Even though electricity has to come from some fuel also. For the most part.

    now some f this can be made to work. Improed batteries could do soemthing.

    One of these days they’ll say that solar power is bad because it causes global warming.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  55. 42:
    YESTERDAY: People wailing about “long established” practices, in response to the Supreme Court decision on immigration.

    TODAY: Loathing an “arcane system” that-aside from working for 200 years–“denied the popular vote winner the election.”

    Harcourt Fenton Mudd (0c349e)

  56. Albondigas! No me digas… donde esta la biblioteca?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  57. My mom made a great albondigas. But her chicken tacos, goulash and kahlua cake were the apex.

    harkin (8f010c)

  58. OT- Now here’s an education:

    Huffman sentenced to 14 days in jail.

    Yes, kids, cheaters win out in the end.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  59. 14 days in prison: Caged Heat!

    Colonel Haiku (e3be5c)

  60. My nephew got his face burned by opening a steaming olla to grab some albondigas. He’s the famous last link of the family to USX employment and earlier got run out of a foreman gig at a Arizona cement plant for not being paisa enough.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  61. Good, the Laura Prepon character in OINTB can grab her broom handle.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  62. I’m a fan of hamburgesas, specially the fritas (sliders with fries) but not the picadillo (ground beef) in general,

    ot, I caught a glimpse of Sherilyn fenn, from twin peaks, has gone a little down hill, on a guest episode of swat,

    narciso (d1f714)

  63. One term Joe. Just keeping telling yourself that. One term Joe.

    Well, there is always apoplexy.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  64. His record is one of “appearing” to be moderate. that’s what he’s doing now. His path to the POTUS is by playing the moderate.

    Like when he told the NAACP that Romney wanted to put black folk back in chains.

    He’s also a complete bullsh*tter, and a good one. If he debated Trump he wouldn’t be caught trying to remember facts to refute — he’d make up custom ones.

    I still remember when Palin talked about Article I of the Constitution being about Congress and Biden slapped her down, basically saying “You ignorant slut, it’s about the Executive.” And Palin was off-balance forever after, even though she was right.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  65. Huffman sentenced to 14 days in jail.

    And she’ll do 3.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  66. “Well, I mean,” Harris began, failing to suppress a smug laugh, “I would just say, ‘Hey, Joe, instead of saying no we can’t, let’s say yes we can!”

    Well, she’ll get Sotomayor’s vote, but even Kagan has standards. The rest of the court will be Federalists, so 8-1 against.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  67. 69. Harris’ comment was boob bait. It’s kind of Trumpian.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  68. no she was confident, the press disgraced themselves cleaning up after this cigar store indian,

    narciso (d1f714)

  69. We are truly living in a kakistocracy, rule by the most unfit amongst us.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  70. corporations do not care for their customer’s feelings,

    https://amgreatness.com/2019/09/13/145-gun-executives-beg-senate-for-gun-control/

    narciso (d1f714)

  71. What gun executives?

    the heads of 145 companies, including Levi Strauss, Twitter and Uber, say in the letter, which was shared with The New York Times.

    If you are interested in some of the letter signers here are a few high profile ones: Apple, Facebook, Google, JPMorgan Chase and Wells Fargo along with “Thrive Capital, whose founder, Joshua Kushner, is the brother of Jared Kushner, President Trump’s son-in-law, and Bain Capital, the private equity firm co-founded by Senator Mitt Romney, Republican of Utah.”

    Fake-ass clickbait from fake-ass gold digger Trumphumper site.

    nk (dbc370)

  72. “Both parties are due for a reckoning as they are rapidly splintering into factions that have trouble getting along with each other and are only united by their disdain for the other side.”

    JVW

    It’s almost like we could use more political parties. Gee, if only there were some way to identify the structural mechanism that is forcing people into this two party system that doesn’t suit them or represent them.

    Leviticus (8f640b)

  73. We are at the end of a party-system, which has happened, so they say, 6 times in our history. It’s an inflection point, generally following a complete failure of one or both parties to take care of business. Trump is the harbinger, not the event itself.

    Both parties turned their backs on large segments of the population, including large sections of manufacturing workers and tradesmen. They disagreed on the Culture Wars but they saw eye to eye on economics after Clinton adopted Reagan’s globalism.

    Not that globalism is bad, per se, but the damage it did to manufacturing here was never addressed and compounding it with open borders eventually took its toll. The necessary mitigation (there IS a point to government, sorry Libertarians) never happened. And in a democracy where everyone votes, a failure by leaders to deal with a problem that affects millions will eventually result in an election choosing new leaders.

    So, both parties are suffering an identity crisis. The one that sorts sh1t out sooner will find itself with a majority. Will it be the socialists? Is that what people want? Or will it be the Trumpians? Or will it be someone else. At this point in time it is NOT a two-valued choice, although the system will probably allow both parties time to come to their senses before a third party has a shot.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  74. It would probably be a good idea to form a new centrist party though, just in case the Ds and Rs fail to come to their senses.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  75. It rarely happens in the uk the alliance which became the liberal democrats, which may be to the left of labour, macrons en marche party, largely from socialist defectors, but with aspects of the old radicals

    Narciso (7658f4)

  76. Both parties turned their backs on large segments of the population, including large sections of manufacturing workers and tradesmen.

    What does it mean “turned their backs”? Isn’t the whole point of conservatism to leave people alone to live their own lives without interference?

    Unemployment is 4%, so again I ask you where is this lost generation of starving, indigent manufacturing workers and tradesmen?

    I’ll tell you where: sitting on the sofa in their air-conditioned living rooms, watching their 60-inch plasma TVs and checking the social media accounts on their iPhones so they can read on Twitter about how oppressed they are, while their late-model F-150s (and SUVs for the missus) sit in the driveway.

    Trade has raised the standard of living immeasurably: more affordable and higher quality clothing, food, electronics, appliances, cars – you name it – makes everyone better off.

    I agree with you, of course, that politics is effed-up at the moment, but I think that’s because people believed they lies they were being bombarded with and lost their minds in 2016. The pre-Trump GOP wasn’t perfect, but under sane leadership it would have been more than capable of pushing incremental change to move the country in the right direction.

    But instead people freaked out because they weren’t getting 100% of what they wanted in a country divided 51/49.

    Dave (1bb933)

  77. Dave, perhaps you’re just cloistered and don’t see what went on over the last 30 years among these blue-collar workers.

    Get out and talk to an English-speaking residential construction worker. If you can find one. Or a blue-collar manufacturing plant employee. These were jobs — good jobs — that people without the wit or inclination to go to college could get and raise a family on. Until some time in the 90s.

    By that time both parties were allowing American’s jobs be taken by cheap foreign competitors, and even assisted the take-overs. Maybe not intentionally, but that was the effect.

    Either they let people come from Mexico who would work under the table for half what a US tradesman needed to survive, or they treated the overseas manufacturing investments of US businesses as something to encourage if not underwrite. Perhaps they thought those profits would be taxed (hint: they weren’t).

    You can argue all day that this made economic sense, that the affected workers should have found other lines of work, or ways to compete, or whatever.

    But in the end they just voted the fu**ers out of office.

    Reflect on your errors. I have, and realize that when things seemed to be going just fine, under the surface it was fracturing.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  78. I have a friend that argues that all too soon most people won’t have jobs because there will be nothing for them to do. Robots, efficiency, Internet, etc. Capital will see less and less reasons for employing people, and more and more ways to save without them. All kinds of economic sense, and per capita income will be gigantic, and used in part to pension off most of the workforce (“guaranteed annual income”, “basic”, whatever you want to call it).

    Perhaps. The classic 1940’s story “With Folded Hands” (Jack Williamson).

    Or perhaps, long before it gets to that, the proles will vote themselves a new set of leaders. I see part of this brewing here in 2020.

    Kevin M (19357e)

  79. Technology had as much to do with that as politicians, and Chinese wage scales did the rest.

    And finding other lines of work was in fact the traditional approach. Isn’t “government will make sure you have a job” a progressive thing?

    Kishnevi (1b4366)

  80. Or perhaps, long before it gets to that, the proles will vote themselves a new set of leaders.

    And it will still happen with the new leaders.

    Diocletian tried to save the Roman Empire by freezing prices and wages, and freezing people into the jobs they had. Didn’t work.

    Kishnevi (1b4366)

  81. Isn’t “government will make sure you have a job” a progressive thing?

    No, it’s a communist thing. The progressive thing is a guaranteed minimum income for people unable or unwilling (sic) to work.

    nk (dbc370)

  82. 81… I was thinking about this in a more abstract way as I was trying to remain interested in the debate last night. I’ve read that the wide scale automation, robotics – however it’s described – will cause a sea change in what we know employment to be… and a potential for social unrest the likes of which we haven’t witnessed before. I have to think (hope?) that there are think tanks or other entities that are studying this to help develop plans to mitigate the effects as much as humanly possible.

    One more issue for our country and the rest of the developed world to deal with

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  83. Diocletian was about two centuries late, but that is a concern, blade runner of course takes the side of the replicants

    Narciso (7658f4)

  84. Just curious, what new line of work are the lawyers here going to pursue once AI has decimated your profession?

    lee (f8d029)

  85. 83. Kishnevi (1b4366) — 9/13/2019 @ 7:57 pm

    Diocletian tried to save the Roman Empire by freezing prices and wages, and freezing people into the jobs they had. Didn’t work.

    What he was trying to stop was inflation.

    This led to feudalism. I learned that in 1974.

    The same regulations affceted the Roman Empire when it changed its capital and moved to the east.

    The automation argument is just wrong. At one time people worked on farms and most of those jobs were lost. Also many of those in the cities.

    But there are always things for people to do.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  86. 76. Kevin M (19357e) — 9/13/2019 @ 6:30 pm

    .We are at the end of a party-system, which has happened, so they say, 6 times in our history. It’s an inflection point, generally following a complete failure of one or both parties to take care of business. Trump is the harbinger, not the event itself.

    There are institutional barriers now to the replacement of political parties or else the Republican Party should ahve come to ane dn woth the Great Depression. Instead ut remained as a very weak party in national elections for 20, no really 50 or even 60 years.

    Note also that in south after the 1960s, the same two parties continued to exist.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)


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