Patterico's Pontifications

8/7/2019

Follow-Up: Joaquin Castro’s Big Mess

Filed under: General — Dana @ 12:58 pm



[guest post by Dana]

First, Joaquin Castro tried to do some clean-up this morning while defending the release of his target list:

“My post was actually a lament. If you look at my language, I said that it’s sad that these folks, many of whom are prominent business owners in San Antonio, a city that’s about 65 percent Hispanic — their customers, the people that have made them wealthy, their employees, the people that have worked for them for years, many of those folks are Hispanic. And they’re giving their money to a guy who’s running ads talking about Hispanics invading this country.”

And then there was this admonishment:

“Unless you support the white nationalism and the racism that Donald Trump is paying for and fueling, then I hope you, as a person of good conscience, will think twice about contributing to his campaign,” said Castro.

Or else what?

Also, on MSNBC with Willie Geist, Castro said that he didn’t want anyone to be “harassed,” and that that had not been his “intention”:

MSNBC’s Willie Geist pointed out the risk during a Wednesday morning interview with Castro, who is the campaign chairman for his brother, 2020 presidential hopeful Julian Castro.

“What do you say to those people this morning who said I made a campaign donation and now I’m going to be harassed, I’m going to have people protesting outside my business or perhaps even my home … what do you want from them?” Geist asked.

Castro said his intention was not to put anyone in danger, claiming, “I don’t want anybody harassed.”

“But they will be because you put their names in public,” Geist said.

Castro again said, “That was not my intention,” and Geist again insisted, “But that’s what will happen.”

If we give Castro the benefit of the doubt that he really didn’t intend for anyone to be harassed, why didn’t he consider the unintended consequences of his tactics before releasing his target list? How does anyone, let alone an elected official, *not* think about that? Castro may claim that it wasn’t his intention that individuals get harassed as a result of his stunt, but the angry Trump-hater who just needed a nudge to action really doesn’t really care about Castro’s “intentions”. By providing targets, Castro has made their task that much easier. And certainly the individuals on the list don’t care about Castro’s so-called “intentions”. All they know is that they are now in a vulnerable position because of him. Also, when weighing out Castro’s “intentions,” consider this: If the point of Castro’s tweet was to encourage boycotts of pro-Trump businesses, not personal threats, ask yourself why retirees were on there?

Yesterday I wondered whether Castro’s target list included any of his own supporters. It was confirmed today that, yes, it did:

One of those Trump donors even revealed he’s also been a supporter of local Democratic lawmakers—including Castro himself.

Wayne Harwell, the owner of a local real estate development company whose name appeared on the list Castro shared on Monday night, told Fox News…that he donated money to Castro’s congressional campaign. But he suggested that after Castro outed him in a bid to shame Trump supporters, he won’t be supporting Castro anymore.

“I was also on a list of people that gave to Castro and if he dislikes me enough that he wants to put my name out there against Trump, I’m not going to give money to him… Obviously Castro feels pretty strongly against me.”

According to Federal Election Commission records, Harwell donated $1,000 to Castro’s campaign in September 2011.

“I’m pretty independent, but I support Trump,” Harwell explained.

So Castro took a thousand dollar contribution from a Trump supporter. Does that make Castro a supporter of white supremacy??

Anyway, Castro, who is charged with representing everyone in his district, made one of his constituents who had donated to his campaign open to harassment. Castro should immediately return Harwell’s donation if the money is so tainted. I would also say he should also apologize to Harwell, but just the thought of suggesting it made me laugh.

(Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.)

–Dana

96 Responses to “Follow-Up: Joaquin Castro’s Big Mess”

  1. If I hear one more pundit, journo, Dem, or Castro himself justify his tactics by saying: The list is already public information – as if that’s the point – I’m going to scream.

    Dana (fdf131)

  2. #1

    OK — if I hear a loud noise from points west, I figure you are airing your grievances. Because that’s all we’ll here. DCSCA will have a record of “That’s Life” playing in the background.

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  3. Good catch on donors who contribute to both Trump and Castro. I’ll bet Castro never considered that. Also, it doesn’t matter what Castro’s intentions are if they don’t align with the present political climate. I’m sure Obama didn’t intend for people to lose the health plans they wanted to keep, but Obamacare itself prevented that from happening.

    Paul Montagu (35419a)

  4. Dana… maybe another way to distill why Castro’s actions is problematic is that there’s a power/influence dynamic here.

    If DCSCA tweeted the exact same thing as Castro… his impact is much smaller than an account managed by a US Representative. (assuming that he doesn’t have nearly the same number of followers as C

    Furthermore, it’s the tone-deafness aspect if this… he tweeted this the day after the shooting.

    whembly (fd57f6)

  5. I’m torn on this. People probably will use this information to harass or boycott these donors and that will drive an unnecessary wedge between neighbors. But it is public information and having an open society means there can be undesirable consequences.

    Overall, though, it tells us something about both Castro twins and how far they will go to win, even if they hurt their neighbors. I guess they only care about certain kinds of neighbors. That isn’t racism but it might be tribalism, and it is just as bad.

    DRJ (15874d)

  6. Yes, whembly, re the power/influence dynamic. I feel that Castro and friends are desperately spinning to make sure no one picks up on that. Again, this is an elected official, not an anonymous individual with no power to widely influence others.

    Dana (fdf131)

  7. many of those folks are Hispanic and they’re giving their money to a guy who’s running ads talking about Hispanics invading this country.

    Why is everything determined solely about ethnicity?

    Trump is speaking out against illegal, and uncontrolled immigration. Why would some Hispanics not agree with that?

    I can easily see some Hispanics say, I or my family waited our turn and came here legally. And others should do the same.

    (Conversely, if, hypothetically, 2 million poor, uneducated white Canadians were try to force their way over the Northern border, does anyone think Trump would say, “hey guys, your white, so come on over.”)

    Bored Lawyer (998177)

  8. DRJ,

    It’s that an individual with much more power and influence than either you or I has done this. To me, it’s entirely different than if John Doe culled a list and released it. How many people would see it? How many average people have the same sized political platform as Castro (or any elected official)? And how much influence do they have?

    It’s not necessarily that the info is available to the public, it’s that an elected official has used it to publicly shame and invite trouble upon people with less power and ability to fight back. If Castro were in the same position, he would have the Capitol police or a security detail assigned to protect him. The people on the list don’t have that luxury, and are essentially sitting ducks until something actually happens.

    Dana (fdf131)

  9. But we blame the people who harass or attack, right?

    DRJ (15874d)

  10. #5 I’m torn on this. People probably will use this information to harass or boycott these donors and that will drive an unnecessary wedge between neighbors. But it is public information and having an open society means there can be undesirable consequences.

    Overall, though, it tells us something about both Castro twins and how far they will go to win, even if they hurt their neighbors. I guess they only care about certain kinds of neighbors. That isn’t racism but it might be tribalism, and it is just as bad.

    DRJ (15874d) — 8/7/2019 @ 1:29 pm

    I don’t know if I agree with disclosing these sorts of information is a requirement of having an “open society”. This is the basis of the argument in that landmark NAACP vs Alabama case.

    I think we need to make the distinction between Joe Schmoe donating $1000 vs. someone like Bill Gates. The latter can afford protections (physical and/or legally)… when the former would be vulnerable. Again, I want to reiterate Dana’s point that there is a power dynamic involved here.

    I would argue that we need to “find that line” that determines outsized influence and make that public. But keep the others confidential.

    whembly (fd57f6)

  11. *ninja’ed by Dana…

    whembly (fd57f6)

  12. You really don’t– or won’t get it and kep piping out this nonsense. Fox News whined but this for hours, too.

    Castro did nothing wrong. Outing a perfectly legal public list of donors to an apparent racist and bigot is something NeverTrumpers and supposed out-of-favor conservatives should be cheering. Unless, of course, you believe secrecy; that there really were no card carrying members of the Nazi Party in Germany raising Hitler to power; he did it all on his own good looks alone. Maybe instead of carrying water for Fox and Friends with all this faux outrage, try reading Phyllis Bottome’s The Mortal Storm— or simply watch the film.

    Let the donors explain their motives to their local press for donating if they choose to, or not– and say nothing.

    What’s to hide?

    Aren’t they proud of the hilarious move of sending their hard-earned money to a billionaire? Aren’t the proud of cheerfully attending Trump rallies festooned in MAGA hats and letting themselves be publicly televised worldwide waving Trump placards, chanting along with his lengthy rants for the TeeVee? There’s absolutely nothing wrong with knowing who in your community supports a fella stoking racism and bigotry.

    As Truman said, if those donors can’t stand the heat, stay the out of the kitchen!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  13. I agree it is a bad idea, just as Trump’s rhetoric is a bad idea. They can do it and we can criticize their judgment and decide they are not good choices for leadership roles.

    #ImpeachJoaquinCastro trending nationally.

    DRJ (15874d)

  14. #9 But we blame the people who harass or attack, right?

    DRJ (15874d) — 8/7/2019 @ 1:39 pm

    Of course.

    Now I disagree with others that what Castro did rises to the level if literal incitement. But man, there’s very little daylight between the two…

    whembly (fd57f6)

  15. You really don’t– or won’t get it and kep piping out this nonsense

    You really don’t get the “No personal attacks” rule , do you?

    Be gone.

    DRJ (15874d)

  16. meanwhile Puerto rico, found their Hawaiian supreme court, back on their heads,

    narciso (d1f714)

  17. #12 You really don’t– or won’t get it and kep piping out this nonsense. Fox News whined but this for hours, too.

    Castro did nothing wrong. Outing a perfectly legal public list of donors to an apparent racist and bigot is something NeverTrumpers and supposed out-of-favor conservatives should be cheering. Unless, of course, you believe secrecy; that there really were no card carrying members of the Nazi Party in Germany raising Hitler to power; he did it all on his own good looks alone. Maybe instead of carrying water for Fox and Friends with all this faux outrage, try reading Phyllis Bottome’s The Mortal Storm— or simply watch the film.

    Let the donors explain their motives to their local press for donating if they choose to, or not– and say nothing.

    What’s to hide?

    Aren’t they proud of the hilarious move of sending their hard-earned money to a billionaire? Aren’t the proud of cheerfully attending Trump rallies festooned in MAGA hats and letting themselves be publicly televised worldwide waving Trump placards, chanting along with his lengthy rants for the TeeVee? There’s absolutely nothing wrong with knowing who in your community supports a fella stoking racism and bigotry.

    Then those donors are free to engage however they want and their political opponents are free to convince them otherwise.

    But you are still refusing to address the power dynamic here.

    Why?

    As Truman said, if those donors can’t stand the heat, stay the out of the kitchen!

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 8/7/2019 @ 1:41 pm

    So… your appeal to authority is a racist President? A presidential tenure where the actual Supreme Court case of NAACP vs Alabama was decided?

    I don’t think this strengthens your arguments here…

    whembly (fd57f6)

  18. (Conversely, if, hypothetically, 2 million poor, uneducated white Canadians were try to force their way over the Northern border, does anyone think Trump would say, “hey guys, your white, so come on over.”)

    Bored Lawyer (998177)

    Unfortunately, I think he might.

    DRJ (15874d)

  19. Castro: Nice little business you got here Trump supporter. Y’know it’d be a real shame if you got harassed or maybe attacked. Or called a Latino traitor. Yeah, a real shame. ‘Course I’m completely against that, understand. I abhor violence.

    Maybe if you gave us some money and not Trump, you’d safer. Protected maybe. course that’s up to you. And remember, I’m not threatening. That’s not my intent.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  20. I honestly don’t think so, as it’s so diametrically opposed to his anti-illegal immigration stance.

    whembly (fd57f6)

  21. Hmmm… my 8/7/2019 @ 1:48 pm seems stuck in moderation. Did I hit a bad word filter that I’m not aware of?

    whembly (fd57f6)

  22. The Declaration of Independence signers pledged their lives, fortunes and sacred honor in support of their positions– but didn’t say, “hey, don’t print our names for the public to see– we have businesses to run.”

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  23. Yeah, Castro – an elected official – was just doing it for their own good. A public service. Is this clown going to be in the next debate, or his 15 minutes of fame almost over?

    rcocean (1a839e)

  24. he also owned the property where some of the crimes occurred,

    https://dailycaller.com/2019/08/07/jeffery-mark-epstein-democratic-representatives/

    narciso (d1f714)

  25. His bit about Hispanics giving $ to Trump is insane. 33% of Hispanics voted for Trump. That’s millions of people. He reminds me of those Creeps who out Gay Guys “for their own good” or because they decide “They are traitors to Gays”.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  26. This target list was posted so close to when crazies apparently on both fringes of the political spectrum killed a bunch of people. The idea that Castro didn’t know posting a list would put people in danger is simply not true. He’s trying to intimidate people away from participating in the political process. I wouldn’t give Trump a nickel, but I think Castro should apologize now, and every time one of the people on the Castro target list is harassed or harmed. He should be impeached.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  27. The real test of that theory is the remaining white South Africans, though a 13% African-American population might give them pause. That would be the cudgel I would use with Congressional Black Caucus and judges with regard to asylum restrictions.

    urbanleftbehind (5a1d9c)

  28. Take it up with Patterico, DCSCA. Until then, I will release your comments when I have time and your comments will stay moderated for two days. Telling Dana not to keep “piping nonsense” is not explaining or discussing a disagreement, it is an attack.

    DRJ (15874d)

  29. @ DCSCA,

    You really don’t– or won’t get it and kep piping out this nonsense. Fox News whined but this for hours, too.

    I’ve let a few of your personal insults slide by the past two days, but no more. You are in moderation until P can decide any further action. I have attempted to remain gracious in spite of your insults and sneering at me but clearly that doesn’t matter. Question for you: If I’m spouting off nonsense, why do you keep reading it?

    Dana (fdf131)

  30. Outing a perfectly legal public list of donors to an apparent racist and bigot is something NeverTrumpers and supposed out-of-favor conservatives should be cheering

    The problem is that people do not have perfect knowledge, and therefore do not have perfect blameworthiness.

    I know that Trump’s a racist POS. I do not know that every one of his supporters are. In fact, I have dear friends and loved ones who support Trump. Same as I have who supported Obama. I don’t know anybody who liked Hillary, left, right or middle, which is kinda hilarious.

    Hell, there are people who supported Trump and Castro at the same time. They aren’t Nazis. They are just imperfect people trying to participate in an imperfect system. They may just oppose Hillary. They might just be tired of the way the left has treated them like crap (and indeed, this post is an excellent example of democrats treating people like crap).

    Perfectly legal is an excuse for a-hole behavior. I’m not cheering.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  31. This:

    I know that Trump’s a racist POS. I do not know that every one of his supporters are. In fact, I have dear friends and loved ones who support Trump. Same as I have who supported Obama. I don’t know anybody who liked Hillary, left, right or middle, which is kinda hilarious.

    Hell, there are people who supported Trump and Castro at the same time. They aren’t Nazis. They are just imperfect people trying to participate in an imperfect system. They may just oppose Hillary. They might just be tired of the way the left has treated them like crap (and indeed, this post is an excellent example of democrats treating people like crap).

    Perfectly legal is an excuse for a-hole behavior. I’m not cheering.

    Also, as every adult knows, or should know: because it’s lawful doesn’t make it right.

    Dana (fdf131)

  32. You really don’t get the “No personal attacks” rule , do you?

    Not my call, of course, but I took “nonsense” as an opinion on your content on this subject, not on you personally, going by the Bull Durham commenting rules.

    Paul Montagu (35419a)

  33. But on second thought, “don’t– or won’t get it” does cross the line into personal.

    Paul Montagu (35419a)

  34. You really don’t– or won’t get it and kep piping out this nonsense. Fox News whined but this for hours, too.

    It’s hard not to see this as a personal attack given that he specifically referred to my opinions on the subject as “nonsense,” and then equated my “nonsense” with Fox “whining” (for hours) about it. And, that I “don’t” or “won’t” get it, implies I am dumb or incapable of getting it.

    Dana (fdf131)

  35. like you knew O’Donnell was corrupt, actually the guy who went to work for al Jazeera, proved that point, and of course chris coons turned out to be harry reid’s poodle after all,

    narciso (d1f714)

  36. The republicans fail at not getting numbers in front of the camera to denounce these tactics.
    Some things will never change with that party. Trump is no republican.

    mg (8cbc69)

  37. # 18 “Unfortunately, I think he might.”

    What is your basis for that? I have little regard for Trump, but from what I have seen thus far, his objection, and that of most of his supporters, is that our borders need to get under control. The whole race thing is a dodge, IMO.

    Bored Lawyer (998177)

  38. Be gone.
    DRJ (15874d) — 8/7/2019 @ 1:43 pm

    Thank you for that. His attack on Dana, and on others merited it.

    Especially: DCSCA (797bc0) — 8/7/2019 @ 11:38 am

    I am glad that it was unnecessary to lodge a complaint.

    felipe (023cc9)

  39. All discussions of the ethics of this stunt aside, I think that Castro’s ‘It wasn’t my intention that anyone be harassed’ proves pretty conclusively that he’s a liar, and idiot, or both.

    C. S. P. Schofield (9eb8bc)

  40. I don’t see how anyone can give Castro the benefit of the doubt. It’s beyond me that a grown man who releases names of people financially contributing to a loathed president wouldn’t know that they would be targeted.

    Dana (fdf131)

  41. Who cares if he apologizes? “Oh, my bad. Sorry if you took my well meaning actions the wrong way”. What does that accomplish?

    Just remember what he did.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  42. I’m waiting for David french’s “the conservative case for Joaquin Castro”.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  43. Looks like the Castro brothers created a perfect fundraising list for their next opponents.
    “Yes sir, I’m running against Joaquin Castro in the 20th Congressional district and was wondering if I could count on your support?”

    Stacy0311 (3d63e6)

  44. In addition to my comment at 40: It’s not like Castro doesn’t know politics and hasn’t been fomenting his own attacks on Trump. Pleading innocent, as hs essentially is, reeks of every teenager trying to plead innocence for that which everyone under the sun knows he is as guilty as hell.

    Also, his vested interest: candidate Julian Castro. They have a huge personal investment in all of this.

    Dana (fdf131)

  45. Stacy 0311 @44. Unfortunately, slimy little worms like the Castros already know how to weaponize that too: “My opponent’s campaign is funded by Trump mega-donors.”

    nk (dbc370)

  46. Why does DCSCA hide behind a fake name? He should be willing to publish his real name and address here. it really is no big deal, right?

    kaf (bd613c)

  47. What do you do about it? You can’t turn tables on them–leftists in Democratic strongholds have no reason to fear donation doxing. Right wing thugs aren’t going to vandalize their homes. No one is going to harass or assault them in restaurants. You can’t exactly prosecute them because they’re merely collating public data. Again, this is only a variation of what was done to Brendan Eich–he donated to the effort to define marriage in California as heterosexual union. Then gays pressured his employer to fire him.

    That is why they are doing this in this way. You can’t do anything about it, any more than you can shame Hollywood celebs for maxing their donations to left wing candidates. (Boycott their tentpoles? Good luck.)

    We are going to see this kind of escalation on every front, with rhetoric leading the way. All Trump supporters are “white supremacist”, and Trump “supported” Charlottesville. A word about this rhetoric: you might think it’s disingenuous, that they understand it’s an overstatement, but it isn’t. They have talked themselves into believing it, believing it is a deeply emotional response that has evolved out of escalation of liberal moral rhetoric. (This is a good demonstration of how moral belief intensifies.) And because they believe it, major understandings about the limits of political action will disappear–have already disappeared.

    The deplatforming will increase and so will the ramifications of public political expression. Revolutions happen when people en masse stop believing in the legitimacy of authority–and this relationship mirrors the link between civil disorder and moral belief. Guess what? You’ve been drafted into a war, and your first step is to understand the power balance. The conceptual rural-urban divide is now quite literal, in that a different set of laws prevails in one setting vs. another–but not as mirrors of each other (in other words you can’t do the same thing back at hicklibs).

    The correct response is to understand what we are facing–and then to adapt strategies to it. Don’t worry about “fair” or “unfair”–we’re well beyond that kind of complaint. This will push the rightist mind to work a lot harder than it has been accustomed to. But we will have to in order to preserve or recapture any kind of legitimate order. The path forward lies in convincing people in the middle just how dangerous this escalation is, and that it is the right that offers a secure and balanced vision, not the left.

    Doxx Castro (7ff815)

  48. UPDATE: Not just one donor on the list supported Joaquin Castro or his brother Julian, but there were 6 of them :

    A Washington Examiner review of Federal Elections Committee filings found three individuals on the list who gave $5,600 to Trump, the maximum available by law for the primary and general election, and Joaquin Castro, a congressman from San Antonio who also leads the presidential campaign of his brother, a former San Antonio mayor.

    Another three individuals on the list told the Washington Examiner that they supported Julián Castro’s mayoral campaigns. Julián Castro served as San Antonio mayor from 2009 to 2014, before being tapped as HUD secretary for the final two-and-a-half years of President Barack Obama’s administration.

    It is just amazing to me that he would do that,” said William Greehey, a philanthropist and former CEO of Valero Energy, who donated $5,000 to Joaquin Castro’s congressional campaign in 2013, covering the primary and general elections.

    “Then he’s calling me a racist because I’m supporting Trump. I mean, this is just ridiculous.” said Greehey, who noted he started a $100 million homeless campus project that mostly serves Hispanic individuals. “There’s a lot of things you don’t like about the president and his tweeting, but here Castro is doing the same thing with his tweeting.”

    Dana (fdf131)

  49. 44. Stacy0311 (3d63e6) — 8/7/2019 @ 4:14 pm

    44.Looks like the Castro brothers created a perfect fundraising list for their next opponents.

    It’s illegal to use FEC data as amailing or other fundraising list.

    Sammy Finkelman (d542b2)

  50. Its not FEC data anymore.
    Think of it like the Pentagon Papers.

    steveg (354706)

  51. “I did not know it was FEC data… its something I read in a tweet by a congressman”

    steveg (354706)

  52. r23. cocean (1a839e) — 8/7/2019 @ 1:55 pm

    Is this clown going to be in the next debate, or his 15 minutes of fame almost over?

    Joaquin Castro is not the candidate for president. It’s his twin brother, Julian. Joaquin is his campaign manager, I think.

    And, yes. Julian Castro is likely to qualify for the third debate in September, which probably also means the fourh debate in October. They have the same terms.

    This time the candidate has to meet both the unique individual donor threshhold and the polling threshhold, both of which are double what it was for the first and second debates. Julian Castro has reached the donor thresshold of 130,000 and he’s topped the required 2% minimum (as a first choice) in 3 of the 4 necessary qualifying polls. Only polls from certain pre-selected organizations count, but they can be either national polls or polls of one of the early voting primary states polls and any combination of them.

    Julian Castro He has until August 28 to get 2% in his last poll. (this controversy might help, actually.)

    If someone drops in the polls, they could qualify for the third and not the fourh, and, conversely, someone also could qualify for the fourth and not the third debate.

    Sammy Finkelman (d542b2)

  53. I don’t think it matters whether a campaign obtains the list forst or second hand. And it doesn’t matter too much whether they know what it is or not. There will be a fine awaiting.

    They made it illegal either to protect politicians or mailing list companies (cynical reason) or to pretect contributors from being harassed by friendly callers or mail.

    Not so much the latter, as it’s OK if the original campaign sells its contribution list – or rents it rather. The second campaign on;;y gets to see the names of people who respond. Still, requiring the first campaign’s consent limits the number of approaches and wold tend to make sure they were friendly.

    Sammy Finkelman (d542b2)

  54. 49 – Dana: You may have disproven the 2nd biggest myth about Hispanics (the biggest being natural family values conservative voters) – a majority Hispanic-serving homeless initiative. Partially in jest, I thought they (we in my case) always crammed in somewhere or stayed with relatives before chancing it in the streets. Sad thing, its probably a lot more long-time Tejanos than recien llegados.

    urbanleftbehind (847a06)

  55. DCSCA has apologized. I believe he is sincere but I will leave the final decision to Dana.

    DRJ (15874d)

  56. @64. Absolutely, DRJ. Didn’t mean to bark at Dana at all. Not for publication but it has been a helluva long day and we’re starting to deal with that ‘end is near’ stuff here.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  57. Sorry to hear about your mom, DCSCA. I know others who have been through what you are going through (including my own mother with my late grandmother), and I have some inkling of how tough it is. I hope she has comfort and peace as she nears the end. Best wishes to your family.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  58. DRJ, I made my comments directly to DCSCA, and stated that I would moderate him as a result of his personal insults. I also read his apology earlier this evening as I have been checking the moderated comments for one.

    DCSCA, here was your apology:

    DRJ, if that is construed as a personal attack I of course apologize– but it certainly wasn’t meant or intended to be. But if you’d like to explain how outing a list of Trump donors is BAD, considering how badly conservatives despise him, I’m all ears.

    Followed by:

    @31. I’ve posted an apology.

    And that was followed by:

    Dana. I posted an apology.

    Except that you didn’t apologize directly to me. Telling DRJ that you apologize is not the same thing as telling the person you personally attacked. She is not the gatekeeper. I am the one you made it personal with. I wouldn’t normally normally nitpick about this but today is the second day you’ve been unkind and insulting, and it’s disappointing. I happily agree to disagree with you about issues, and do so without personally insulting you. I expect the same from you. More importantly, those the Patterico’s rules.

    Dana (fdf131)

  59. @66. Thanks, JVW. It’s a bit like a Twilight Zone thing. Since that tidbit got out, I’m, genuinely open to any advice from any regulars who have had some experience with this- particularly the ‘diaper shredding- thing’ – which is a compulsive behavior and part of the dementia disease. Watching some one do it and asking them if they know what they’re doing and they say yes but don’t know why is just plain spooky. And messy. Not to get too deep into it, but aside from the prescribed meds, I’ve read about trying everything from mittens to boxing gloves but if anyone else has a suggestion or tried something else, I’m all ears.

    And Dana, again sorry for barking. In fact, apologies to everyone.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  60. Ok, so I missed this comment that must have been released at some point later today:

    I posted an apology– twice.

    I’ll cop to being over the line and decidedly irritable today– and with Dana– not for publication- real world issues just got a little overwhelming– [redacted] is a living nightmare 24/7, as Dana may appreciate.

    That said, no excuse for venting angst on the blog– which you guysknow I appreciate and enjoy the banter between us all. Would like to believe that goes both ways.

    This is my final attempt at an apology.

    Now I feel like shit for what I said at 60 because I absolutely do understand and appreciate what you are going through, DCSCA. And I will tell you this: When all is said and done, you will have no regrets knowing that you did right by your mom, and God will bless you abundantly for your kindness. With that, may your week be better, and may we all remember to ask for help when we need it, let others know (including us here!) that it’s just a shit time in our lives, and then revel in the tsunami of hope and encouragement and grace that will wash over us as a result.

    Tomorrow will be better. I will be here, and DCSCA, I certainly hope you will be too.

    Dana (fdf131)

  61. P.S. Perhaps to avoid such confusion with releasing putting people in moderation/releasing comments, the moderator who has been personally attacked should handle it. I feel badly that I didn’t realize that the comment had been online. I would have immediately responded in kindness.

    Dana (fdf131)

  62. Dana is absolutely right.

    felipe (023cc9)

  63. P.S. DRJ, I just found out that it was P who released DCSCA’s comments.

    Dana (fdf131)

  64. I wish I had advice for you, DCSCA, but I was away in college when my grandmother died and my mom never told me any of the details of her final year. I just know it was tough on both of them. Hopefully someone else can pass along some words of encouragement.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  65. @79. JVW, some how my posts aren’t getting though and I just don’t know who else to apologize to.

    OTOH, I’m trying to keep my sense of humor– boxing gloves?! Yep.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  66. @69. Thanks for the kind words, Dana. I’m sorry for be so irritable to you. My bad. And as you likely know this just goes on around the clock- week in and out.

    So sorry for all this cross-posting, too. Will welcome any suggestions.

    So far, ‘don’t get old’ seems the most pragmatic.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  67. You are now free from moderation, DCSCA. Take care and be sure to get some rest.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  68. I was wrong for venting on you on both Tuesday and Wednesday, Dana.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  69. Thanks JVW. Maybe I’ll use those boxing gloves and smack myself!

    And to everybody– especially the long tm regulars, I sincerely apologize for directing any of this at all of you.

    At leat the cat was grateful– it wasn’t kicked! 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  70. No worries, DCSCA. Sometimes life just gets hard and overwhelming. You’re in a mean season right now so it’s important to take some time for yourself and recharge the batteries. Prayers for grace and patience for you.

    Dana (fdf131)

  71. BTW, JVW, I was snippy w/you too and that was part of this and I apologize to you, too- you’re a good egg.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  72. @85. Thanks, Dana. Now, if only I could stop these August snowstorms!! Who knew so much cotton was packed into a little disposable diaper! It’s unreal.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  73. BTW, JVW, I was snippy w/you too and that was part of this and I apologize to you, too- you’re a good egg.

    Don’t worry for one moment about that. I can be quite curt myself, much to my later regret. Take care and keep commenting here.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  74. I’ve dealt with a similar issue for over 25 years (due to autism, not dementia), DCSCA. First, it’s no fun but you can do it. Second, this behavior is common but the causes vary. It can be sensory-based, anxiety, diet or medication so experiment with each. I will try not to be too specific for privacy, but I can say more if needed. For instance:

    1. Sensory – the feel bothers them so they pick at it. Try old-fashioned cloth or different brands or washable options or experiment with layering all of the above.

    2. Anxiety – they may be bored/scared so look for activities that help them mentally (by relaxing, challenging, or distracting). The changing mental status means what works may also change over time, so you have to be flexible and creative. I think dementia patients tend to regress so maybe make many copies of old family photos to put in a scrapbook or even to shred?

    3. Diet/medication – these can actually cause side effects like this. Review with her doctor but my experience is you will have better luck talking to a dietician and/or pharmacist.

    4. Other – if it can be done safely, encourage frequent bathing/showers and toilet time. Get a comfortable portable toilet for bedside and encourage them to stay there (again, if it is safe).

    5. Consult online dementia forums and local resources. Is Hospice an option? Home health? Don’t hesitate to ask for help. They have seen everything.

    6. The real comfort comes from talking to God. He is always there for us.

    God bless you.

    DRJ (15874d)

  75. As for cleaning up shredded stuff like that, the temptation is to use wet things to clean it up but that makes it worse. Use a broom to get it in one area, preferably a corner with tile, and pick up as much as possible manually. A pillowcase is a good size to cover debris, grab, and dump in the trash. Then the pillowcase can be tossed in the washer. Use a hairdryer to dry out any remaining stuff on the floor and, once dry, it can be vacuumed.

    If the shredded stuff is in the bedding, I would change the bedding and shake off any shredded debris outside before washing. You can put the bedding directly in the dryer and the lint filter should catch most of the remaining debris. Be sure to clean the filter frequently during drying to keep the dryer from overheating and clean out any residue in the bottom of the dryer. You may still have to wash the bedding but most of the paper/lint should be off.

    Finally, you can use wide sticky tape, anti-static spray and/or dryer sheets like Bounce to clean up shredded paper debris. It is basically lint and those all clean up lint.

    DRJ (15874d)

  76. I doubt you feel like humor right now, DCSCA, but a “Big Mess” post is the right place for this discussion!

    PS – I moved your earlier comment back to the filter, and redacted part of the quote from it above.

    DRJ (15874d)

  77. What is your basis for that? I have little regard for Trump, but from what I have seen thus far, his objection, and that of most of his supporters, is that our borders need to get under control. The whole race thing is a dodge, IMO.

    Bored Lawyer (998177)

    His history, but especially this. More about that here. I understand not everyone finds that convincing and I respect that, but I do.

    Having said that, I don’t think his immigration policies are necessarily based on race. I think he sees immigration as an issue he can use for personal advantage.

    DRJ (15874d)

  78. 78. DRJ (15874d) — 8/8/2019 @ 2:15 am

    I don’t think his immigration policies are necessarily based on race.

    I don’t think they are based on race at all. Not that they are based on anything at all, except that people won’t disagree with his stated goals, but neither do they support them. And fif they do, he can alwasys come up with something outlandish, like Mexico will pay for the wall, where the best someone can do is argue they won’t, but not that there is no reason that they should, and that last (that Mexico won’t but not that Mexico shouldn’t) just makes whoever says it look weak.

    I think he sees immigration as an issue he can use for personal advantage.

    That’s what I have always seen with this. Now if Democrats would only acknowedge that none of this started with Trump. Trump tacked on to something that already existed. But they won’t even acknowledge it is something other than white supremacy.

    The birtherism he joined in 2011 (and didn’t start!) was also based on anti-immigration sentiment) There’s a thing about that that wants to get people in trouble for no reason at all. (at the time I thought he was genuinely doubtful)

    Sammy Finkelman (d542b2)

  79. DSCSA…have had a parent with dementia…there comes a point where it just will be too much, and you need to step back and bring in a home health aide to handle things.
    When that point is you will have to decide for yourself, but remember that the important thing is ensuring your parent is taken care of, that who takes care of them is secondary.

    And the worst part is the moment you realize your parent has no idea of who you are, and not only does not remember your name but doesn’t remember you are their child,

    Kishnevi (49889c)

  80. 53. correcton or clarificaton:

    Joaquin Castro is the campaign chairman, not the campaign manager, for his brother, Julian
    Castro.

    That’s a much less active role.

    Sammy Finkelman (d542b2)

  81. 17. NAACP vs Alabama was decided in Eisenhower;s time.

    It was precipitated by the resistance to Brown v Board of Education.

    All that Truman did was integrate he army, and run on a Civil Rights platform in 1948. (He did come from a family sympathetic to the Confedracy in Missouri)

    Another southern president before Jimmy Carter, to go along with Woodrow Wilson (present on Georgia in 1864 when sherman was marching though it) and Lyndon Johnson.

    Sammy Finkelman (d542b2)

  82. @89. Oh yes, thanks DRJ!!!!

    Yes, the doc says the shredding this is compulsory behavior and I’ve tried that replacement thing– gave her a newspapers, magazines– even old towels and fabrics to tear. Anything I can think of. The doc prescribed some meds that can ease it but it is sort of a hit or miss thing. Have plastered the rom w/old photos and there’s DVD running w/old family films as well to ease he anxieties, too. Spikes around 3ish– part of that sundowners syndrome… We’ve carbed her up on the diet thing– doc says to put weight on her so she’s eating like Garfield- lots of lasagna and ice cream. LOL Plenty of grazing snacks, too. Yes, do the shake-out and clean up daily, too. Do two loads of wash a day– so much for conserving water. LOL So we do the best we can. Have set up one of those ‘babycams’ to monitor activity into the wee hours of the night, too. And have looked online at some of those sites you mentioned– one suggested using the boxing gloves over night. LOL

    Growing old does not look fun. And yes, thank God– especially for our sense of humor.

    @91. ROFLMAO DRJ- that actually crossed my mind, too.

    Thanks— but you know, in a way, I’m sorta okay with it getting out as you, Dana, JVW the long time regulars here are good eggs w/some experience with this and comfortable welcoming the feedback from y’all. It’s all such uncharted territory. Back in the day, when in my 20s and I’d be sailing w/my Dad, after a few beers he’d go into that talk I’m sure we’ve all experienced–‘if anything ever happens to me, take care of your mother!’ When you’re 22 and young, you say yeah, yeah, sure, okay–and that time seems a million years off. It arrived a lot faster. So you keep your promise and deal with it. Bu thanks to everyone for input and apologies again to all.

    ________

    94. K– yes, thanks– that is on the list and we’re prepared for that and monitor for it. Do a memory test daily to ‘exercise’ the brain. It is astonishing how she can recall details from, say, WW2 times -even the lyrics to obscure radio commercials- but cannot recall what she had for lunch 20 minutes earlier. Televised baseball and golf, movies and such peak her attention- cable news less so, chiefly due to the repetitive nature of it. The inner workings of the mind are truly a wonder.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  83. Your house sounds like my house, including the baby cam. I think there are a lot of us. I’m glad you decided to share it with us. We do care.

    Do you want me to put your earlier comment back online or leave it alone? I am happy to do whatever you decide.

    DRJ (15874d)

  84. You are a very good son to take care of your mother, DCSCA. And a good man.

    Chin up!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  85. One more suggestion. Have her checked for a kidney or urinary tract infection. It can cause problems like this in dementia patients and the elderly. Not everything is actually dementia.

    DRJ (15874d)

  86. @98. I’m okay with it up, DRJ– and truly glad you and everyone else all are giving feedback and input. It’s been helpful.

    We all wish there as just ‘a pill’ for this sort of stuff– but there just isn’t.

    Maybe some day there will be.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  87. It is astonishing how she can recall details from, say, WW2 times -even the lyrics to obscure radio commercials – but cannot recall what she had for lunch 20 minutes earlier.

    One thing has to do with remembering; the other with memorizing.

    Have you tried speaking to her on the telephone? That might help. Put a (old fashioned Western Electric landline) teephone next toher and call her up and talk.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  88. @99. Thanks, Colonel. It’s that promise made on the sailboat decades ago–keeps echoing– and by chance, got it on videotape, too, so there’s no escape! LOL.

    @100- Yeah, DRJ, she get’s a check-up every six weeks.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  89. @DCSCA These message numbers are way too high. Your #89 is responding to 99 and 100 and your 83 responds to 89, 93 and 94.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  90. There are comments in moderation that DCSCA can see but others can’t. Ignore the numbers.

    DRJ (15874d)

  91. My Dad had regular checkups, too, but they never screened for infections unless there was a fever present. However, the elderly do not always present the way younger people do.I had to really really argue for a urinalysis and the doctors resisted for weeks, but it was positive. Dad’s crazy behavior was dramatically better, literally in days.

    And he was acting crazy. It was out of character and every doctor said it was dementia, but it wasn’t. His end of life issues were much worse before he was treated, but the last months were actually special for him and us with treatment. (BTW, most require continuing prophylactic antibiotics when this happens.)

    I had hospice folks and home health nurses tell me they see it a lot. We had good doctors but I have looked online and while this can exacerbate problems, missing it seems to be common. You have to push for testing.

    DRJ (15874d)

  92. @106. Yes, she gets the urinalysis at each check-up and the lab calls w/t results withina few days so the doc seems to be on top of that. And her chief beverage is cranberry juice as is.

    Autism is a hard road to manage, through, too. It just make you love them all the more. You’re doing good. That ‘babycam’ gadget is great, too, isn’t it?!?! Really helps avert more problems.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  93. @102. She’s in the next room, Sammy. Telephones ringing totally spook her- doc says it’s the ‘out-of-routine’ noise and it takes me an hour to calm her down after one rings so we try to avoid it.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  94. Good for you. Your team is handling this better than ours did.

    For us, the autism/dementia paths were surprisingly similar. It was a blessing in a way.

    DRJ (15874d)

  95. I second Kishnevi at # 80.
    Keep the faith, DCSCA.

    mg (8cbc69)


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