Patterico's Pontifications

8/7/2019

Ahead Of Dayton and El Paso, Trump Claims His Rhetoric Brings People Together

Filed under: General — Dana @ 9:12 am



[guest post by Dana]

Which people would that be?

Before boarding Marine One for President Trump spoke to reporters:

Speaking before departing for El Paso and Dayton, Ohio, the site of another weekend mass shooting, Trump accused his opponents of “looking for political gain” by tying his comments to the shooting in Texas and insisted he would like to “stay out of the political fray” even as he sought to link the Dayton shooter to prominent Democrats.

“I don’t think my rhetoric does at all. I think my rhetoric brings people together. Our country is doing really well,” Trump said at the White House when asked by reporters if his comments contribute to violence.

Trump also told reporters:

“I am concerned about the rise of any group of hate. I don’t like it. Any group of hate — whether it’s white supremacy, whether it’s any other kind of supremacy, whether it’s Antifa” — a leftist group, he said. “And I’ll do something about it.”

We’ll see how well his rhetoric brings together the people of Dayton and El Paso today.

(Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.)

–Dana

66 Responses to “Ahead Of Dayton and El Paso, Trump Claims His Rhetoric Brings People Together”

  1. Good morning.

    Dana (fdf131)

  2. Trump 101: yesterday is gone; tomorrow is a maybe; there is only today –the here and now– with this fella.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  3. Why do we even bother paying attention to what the shooters claim to support? Look at how little the El Paso shooter helped Trump. All he did was cement the notion that opposition to illegal immigration is extremely evil (which it isn’t). All he did was ruin any chance for the GOP to win on the issue for several years. It’s actually profound. If someone was devoted enough to ruin so many families and his own for a cause, why wouldn’t he be devoted enough to pretend to be on the opposite side of the issue than he really is?

    The only real solution is to completely ignore the views of these bastards.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  4. Yep. Every D Candidate is calling Trump a “hater” a “racist” and a “Supporter of white nationalists” and the problem is Trump. If only he would agree with his critics or maybe attack racism it would all go away.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  5. Trump is doing what Presidents do. But the D’s don’t think Trump is a legitimate President. Only D’s are Legitimate presidents. People forget the D hatred toward Bush II. It was at a lower level because Bush II was a liberal establishment type in many ways. But he still go hammered as “Bush-Hitler” and the man who stole the election in 2000.

    The Level of hate toward Trump is off the charts. The level of lies and hate in the MSM and contempt for the Presidency is off the charts. We’re never coming back from this.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  6. Dayton Shooter was antifa. But its all about “White supremacy” according to Booker and David French. They agree a lot these days, don’t they? Its almost like David French is really a liberal, who just plays a conservative for Profit now and then. But that’s too cynical.

    The key point is Biden, Booker, the MSM, repeat the same slanders of Trump no matter what he says or does. They don’t even want to join with him and healing the country after a couple of mass killings. If we went to war with Iran, would they help Iran to hurt Trump? I wouldn’t be surprised.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  7. RC, have you found any evidence that the Dayton shooter was motivated by politics? Not arguing he wasn’t, I’m genuinely looking for a better explanation.

    Time123 (c9382b)

  8. You make a good point, Dustin.

    Dana (fdf131)

  9. We’re never coming back from this.

    sure people will. As soon as Trump isn’t president and they have a new mascot the articles about how trump wasn’t really a conservative and never reflected the GOP will start. At one point in time Romney was the conservative’s conservative.

    Time123 (c9382b)

  10. Trump is doing what Presidents do

    Just to have some clarification, Trump is doing what presidents do with regard to his visit to Dayton and El Paso? Or Trump is doing what presidents do with regard to using rhetoric?

    Dana (fdf131)

  11. Six of the nine people the Dayton shooter shot and killed wereblack. But he was at an anti Ku Klux Klan rally in May, and wanted Joe Biden to die (a natural death)

    He contacted the Socialist Rifle Association for a technical question aout bump stocks back in December.

    In reality, he was fascinated by mass murders, and felt an urge to commmit onw, according to an ex
    girl friend.

    He finally gave in to his compulsion.

    Sammy Finkelman (d542b2)

  12. The Dayton shooter had obtained a weapon that fell within a loophole in the law: An AR-15 pistol that operated like a rifle.

    Sammy Finkelman (d542b2)

  13. Time123, I’ve wavered between were the friends of the sister red-pillers/TPUSA and trying to get him to change or whether it may an “all these black dudes taking the white women”. One Asian guy out in NE Ohio got busted writing threatening letters to black athletes with white WAGS (Wives And Girlfriends) several years ago, and anecdotally (spent a couple years at tOSU) that seemed to be a thing I saw with greater frequency than most places.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  14. Trump is a ridiculous, ineffectual and incompetent buffoon. His verbal diarrhea (it does not deserve the dignity of “rhetoric”) brings people together to form two different groups: The Democrats, and enough Trumpkins to keep him from being primaried. He is a piece of New York sewer garbage who is doing great harm to America and to conservatism.

    nk (dbc370)

  15. Dustin, while that might earn you a tinfoil hat from many, it does leave open the question of whether the EPS was a law enforcement asset gone haywire from exposure to rhetoric they were assigned to investigate or monitor, much like many American-born Islamic informants who eventually get roped in on bombing plots.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  16. “RC, have you found any evidence that the Dayton shooter was motivated by politics?”

    Even CNN has admitted he was Antifa. But those guy aren’t motivated by politics. Its a literary society.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  17. RC, i agree he was a lefty. He was also a misogynist, and creepy guy that created a rape list and a kill list in high school. At this point I’m agnostic about what motivated him to commit mass murder and I’m genuinely looking for info on that. I’m going to assume you don’t have anything new.

    Time123 (c9382b)

  18. Dustin, while that might earn you a tinfoil hat from many, it does leave open the question of whether the EPS was a law enforcement asset gone haywire from exposure to rhetoric they were assigned to investigate or monitor, much like many American-born Islamic informants who eventually get roped in on bombing plots.

    What are you trying to say here?

    Time123 (c9382b)

  19. Dustin appears to mention the possibility that the person was a left/liberal who wanted to impugn the right’s message of opposing illegal immigration with this extreme murder act. I added that another possibility in that vein was that the EPS was a monitor or informant for either a law enforcement agency or an outfit like the SLPC that got turned out and turned on over time and exposure to those he was investigating.

    urbanleftbehind (41024a)

  20. But he still got hammered as “Bush-Hitler” and the man who stole the election in 2000.

    Neither party cares about policy. Just about being in power and having control of the money hose.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  21. Urban, Got it. Unless there’s some evidence he worked with or for law enforcement I’m going to say this infowars talk.

    To me it seems more likely that he wanted to use force to halt an invasion to Latinos. He was pretty clear in what he wrote in his manifesto on that. He’s obviously mentally ill. No healthy person does something like this. But it looks pretty clear so far on El Paso

    The Dayton shooter not so much.

    Time123 (89dfb2)

  22. Dayton Shooter was antifa.

    He supported Antifa, but no evidence he was a participant, and it’s unlikely his shooting spree was politically motivated, not after two ex-girlfriends said he was nuts.

    Paul Montagu (35419a)

  23. The only real solution is to completely ignore the views of these bastards.

    And the bastards themselves. Closed anonymous trial, bullet in the back of the head in the basement and cremation. Yeah, I know, Constitution, Rule of Law, blah blah blah, but we are letting civilization get in front of Civilization.

    See also Dean Ing’s Soft Targets

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  24. He supported Antifa, but no evidence he was a participant, and it’s unlikely his shooting spree was politically motivated, not after two ex-girlfriends said he was nuts.

    FWIW, Snopes thinks he was a leftist.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  25. @14. ‘… great harm to America and to conservatism.’

    To America? Not really. Americans are doing it to themselves- 61 million citizens voted for him– yet more voted for his opponent and thanks to the peculiarities of a self-imposed, antiquated system, the popularly elected winner lost. Would you have preferred her? What a dull show that would have been.

    Trump, OTOH, is endlessly entertaining. For in this day an age, Americans don’t want to be governed– they wish to be entertained. And it has been a helluva show.

    Harm to conservatism- at least the hollowed echo chamber known as the ‘modern ideological conservative movement’- you bet, but not as much as they did to themselves by believing for far too long their own press clippings and radio talkers. How many candidates did they run? 15? 16? A large part of the electorate was hungry for a Trump steak, not weenies or that slab of Canadian bacon. Our Captain is conservatism’s Frankenstein. He is their creation; their horror; the inner ‘id’ revealed, with the bark off. Fox flipped; Will was dumped, Kristol’s rag folded; 20-plus Nat’l Review’s NeverTrump columnists outted and now out-of-favor… ‘Conservatism’ collapsed like a house of cards. Because there is no there, there. It was long overdue. And it is glorious.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  26. Call them “unlawful combatants” (the El Paso clown thought he was fighting a war after all), and toss them into a pit somewhere.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  27. If this punk offered to sell you Girl Scout cookies you wouldn’t trust him. That’s before he hurt all those people. Now that we know he has nothing but the absolute worst intentions towards us as a society, why believe the one thing about him that is causing the most immense impact on society? He’s not stupid.

    As far as ULB’s worry this was an informant gone nuttier, I didn’t have that in mind, but that kind of thing has happened. Frankly, I think the people who are effective at threat mitigation know they have to take risks and get their hands dirty. That sounds cavalier, but I really think sometimes it’s very hard to control these nutty variables. That thought is a lot farther than we should go (and if that were the case, I wonder if we would ever learn about it). But it’s not exactly impossible.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  28. To America? Not really. Americans are doing it to themselves- 61 million citizens voted for him– yet more voted for his opponent and thanks to the peculiarities of a self-imposed, antiquated system, the popularly elected winner lost

    She only won due to the same antiquated system, based on antiquated state lines (e.g. California) where millions of her opponents didn’t bother voting since it would not matter.

    We can play this shoulda-woulda-coulda game all day and it is still utter wank.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  29. He’s not stupid.

    He also mostly shot Americans.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  30. well you all seem to make common cause with democrats, the congressman who are surrendering to the democrats, of course dems mixing up illegal and legal democrats doesn’t help things.

    the shooter had a 100 round magazine, so who knows what his final intent was, the truth is he fell through the cracks like every instance back to 1996,

    narciso (d1f714)

  31. Are we really arguing that political rhetoric is contributing to these shootings?

    It seems that in doing so, we’re not properly ascribing agency to the shooter’s own actions.

    Am I wrong on this?

    whembly (4605df)

  32. @28. Perhaps you should learn to simply count: she got more votes. And if you do learn to count, you’ll discover the tally of ‘conservatives’ is much smaller than the echo chamber and radio talkers have led you to believe.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  33. @32, like two wolves and a sheep voting on what’s for lunch.

    Colliente (05736f)

  34. that’s not the way the system works disco, did they not teach civics in Pittsburgh,

    narciso (d1f714)

  35. just like twit seal Malcolm nance, who suggested targets for Islamic state,

    https://dailycaller.com/2019/08/06/msnbc-analyst-numerology-trump-flags/

    narciso (d1f714)

  36. There’s no specific evidence the El Paso Shoooter was killing people specifically for political reasons. Show me his words. There’s no evidence it was motivated purely by politics. Same with the Dayton shooter. No evidence shooting was purely political. But somehow being Antifa means nothing, while posting some anti-immigrant talk means everything.

    See, anyone can play your game.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  37. @34. See #25, narcissy; English a second language; did they not teach you to read in ‘Cuber?’

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  38. he was three bags crazy, immigration, but he also believed in climate change and a basic income,

    I think he wanted to do what the Christchurch shooter did, put gun owners in a world of hurt, he didn’t particularly adore china, that we can surmise,

    narciso (d1f714)

  39. I’m assuming you don’t understand basic principles, or you work at MSNBC same difference,

    narciso (d1f714)

  40. DCSCA —

    Your message is inconsistant. “Americans” want to be entertained, yet the dullest candidate since sliced Wonder Bread is the one who got more votes.

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  41. Early prediction: Biden is fading; the ‘cadaver look’ doesn’t sell well; Kamala is a name for a hurricane, not a president; Warren will get the nomination.

    It’ll be ‘The Scold vs. The Old;’ ‘Mrs. Gideon vs. Cuthbert J. Twillie’… Margaret Hamilton vs. WC Fields.

    Bet on Bill for the win.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  42. this is why john morgan, is pushing for recreational marijuana (surprise) he wants all the dopes to vote,

    narciso (d1f714)

  43. @40. It’s consistent w/t the ‘rules’ in place: lost.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  44. ^she lost.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  45. DCSCA —

    It will be the revenge of the soccer moms that will bring the Dem candidate over. No matter how much time Pence spends on his knees.

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  46. @40. Look at it this way: the choice was between ‘Dallas’ or ‘Mawde’– both had good runs.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  47. @45. I believe Trump will dump Pence for Haley– and she’ll jump at the gig to bail out of Boeing. He changes staff like wives and underwear, anyway. Pence is bland dead weight anymore– adds nothing for 2020; Haley brings color, her gender and placates a lot of the festering issues.

    All Trump cares about is the win.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  48. Ever see a cadaver in a dark suit give a speech asleep on his feet? JoeyBee is doing it right now on the TeeVee. It’s like a lecture at a funeral.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  49. @45. I believe Trump will dump Pence for Haley– and she’ll jump at the gig to bail out of Boeing. He changes staff like wives and underwear, anyway. Pence is bland dead weight anymore– adds nothing for 2020; Haley brings color, her gender and placates a lot of the festering issues.

    All Trump cares about is the win.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 8/7/2019 @ 11:56 am

    I love me some Haley… but, I seriously doubt she’d want to join Trump again. She’s like the only Trump staff who remains unscathed by her association with Trump.

    I think she’s eyeing the 2024 election.

    whembly (51f28e)

  50. @49. It won’t be about him- it’ll be about her; as VEEP, she’d get the hih level experience and slide through the primaries for 2024 w/ease. If she’s offered the gig, she’ll jump at it. Heck, even w/her limited Boeing experience it would be a good fit for running the Space Council. If she doesn’t take it if offered, she’s toast.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  51. #46

    JR wuld have been the second coming of LBJ without the stupid war. Equating him with Trump is an insult to his memory.

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  52. Rc, I read this and came to the conclusion that he was motivated by politics. I think it’s the answer to your question.

    Do you see it otherwise?

    Time123 (1e51c3)

  53. For those that don’t click the link

    In general, I support the Christchurch shooter and his manifesto. This attack is a response to the Hispanic invasion of Texas. They are the instigators, not me. I am simply defending my country from cultural and ethnic replacement brought on by an invasion. Some people will think this statement is hypocritical because of the nearly complete ethnic and cultural destruction brought to the Native Americans by our European ancestors, but this just reinforces my point. The natives didn’t take the invasion of Europeans seriously, and now what’s left is just a shadow of what was. My motives for this attack are not at all personal. Actually the Hispanic community was not my target before I read The Great Replacement. This manifesto will cover the political and economic reasons behind the attack, my gear, my expectations of what response this will generate and my personal motivations and thoughts.

    Time123 (1e51c3)

  54. @41. Yep. Agree the nominee will be Warren. Question, how much will “Pocohontas” damage her? I think it will hurt but not enough for Trump to lose. I think Dem turnout, esp in the suburbs, and esp among fed-up women, will give her the election, by a sliver.

    on the other hand, what do I know, I thought Trump would go the way of Herman Cain.

    JRH (52aed3)

  55. not enough for Trump to *win. D’oh im a clumsy sonofab*&*^

    JRH (52aed3)

  56. There’s no specific evidence the El Paso Shoooter was killing people specifically for political reasons.

    The shooter’s manifesto contained this sentence:

    This manifesto will cover the political and economic reasons behind the attack, my gear, my expectations of what response this will generate and my personal motivations and thoughts.

    Emphases mine. He actually has a section titled “Political Reasons”. If you’ll agree that words mean things, manifesto means a “public declaration of policy and aims, especially one issued before an election by a political party or candidate.”

    Paul Montagu (35419a)

  57. Actually, words mean things whether you agree or not.

    Paul Montagu (35419a)

  58. BTW, No-class Beto. Mr. “The USA is a white supremacist nation (except for me and my Billionaire Wife)” waited till Trump had his No Press/No Pictures meeting with Hospitalized shooting victims, to have public filmed “comfort session” with one of the Walmart Shooting Survivors.

    Should I be surprised that Mr. Profanity in Public, Mr. Skateboard, Mr. Liberal Democrat has ZERO Class? Even the TV reporter seemed a little shocked at the Grandstanding.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  59. I’m with Dustin, Paul. Who cares what the gallowsbird wrote and what reason do they have to 1) believe any of it and 2) promulgate it for him?

    nk (dbc370)

  60. Well, nk, a statement was made and I fact-checked it, and quite easily. And I somewhat disagree about manifestos. At the least, we’re afforded the opportunity to see what was in the nut’s head before his swansong. I think we all would have rather seen a manifesto or GBCW from the Dayton shooter than not see one. It would’ve taken out some of the guesswork.

    Paul Montagu (35419a)

  61. He does bring normal, responsible, and moral people with families who love this country together.

    However, the aggrieved, the privileged, the weak-willed, the mercenary and the alienated have to settle for a fractious coalition kept together only by threats, money, and shared hatreds and insecurities. And it’s easy for Dayton types to string them along till the slaughter.

    Doxx Castro (91c2dc)

  62. Hes a blunt instrument which is what’s required now, an imperfect vessel.

    Narciso (72d34b)

  63. An imperfect vessel for an imperfect world.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  64. Paul Montagu (35419a) — 8/7/2019 @ 4:42 pm

    I think we all would have rather seen a manifesto or GBCW from the Dayton shooter than not see one. It would’ve taken out some of the guesswork.

    He didn’t really have a cause.

    If he did a manifesto is important to a terrorist, because otherwise we wouldn’t know if it was intended as an action in favor of animal righs or in opposition to plastic straws.

    The Orlando nightclub killer was at pains to make sure we knew his killing spree was in support of ISIS and not based on hatred of homosexuality.

    Sammy Finkelman (d542b2)

  65. 3. Dustin (6d7686) — 8/7/2019 @ 9:27 am

    3.Why do we even bother paying attention to what the shooters claim to support?

    Looking for patterns. If you mean WHO the shooters claimed to support, that gives you some clues. Sometimes it means nothing.

    Look at how little the El Paso shooter helped Trump. All he did was cement the notion that opposition to illegal immigration is extremely evil (which it isn’t).

    it is, and t he democrats aren’t wlling to say so, instead accusing Trump of supporting white supremacy, which he doesn’t. It’s exactly the ame thing, morally.

    And if you say that it is illegal immigration that he opposes, and that somehow the situation of being illegal, no matter under what circumstances t arose, this is disproven by the fact that Trump also wants to reduce legal immigration (whenever a bill for something like a wall comes closer to passage he demands “reform” and achange to “merit-based immigration. If it was ony illegal immigration that he opposed, he would propose making as much of it as pssible legal. So it is immigrants he opposes. And Trump must exaggerate and lie and use tropes thatt we would not tolerate with regard to any other subset of oeople to justify it.

    Now the interestung thing is, Trump says different things than the killer did. And while some of what the killer said is said by some conservatves ((like that Democrats wants Hispancs in the United states because they;ll vote for them and that’s evil) Trump himself does not make such claims. He does not say immigration shold be restricted because it will help the Republcan Party. Otehrs say that, not Trmp. And it is not Trump who says that illegal (and legal) immmmigrants should not be eligible for health care. Oehrs do, By the way, exluding people from medical care (which seems to be the idea – it’s more that tan trying to bankruot medical providers and hospiatsl) is extremely eveil ad halfwayy along the way to just outright killing them.

    Now he killer rechesfor any argument he can find.

    He says that people who oppose him killing people (if they agree with his premise about how terrible immigration is, and he assumes most people do) are hypocrites.

    America is full of hypocrites who will blast my actions as the sole result of racism and hatred of other
    countries, despite the extensive evidence of all the problems these invaders cause and will cause.

    People who are hypocrites because they support imperialistic wars that have caused the loss of tens of thousands of American lives and untold numbers of civilian lives. The argument that mass murder is okay when it is state sanctioned is absurd. Our government has killed a whole lot more people for a whole lot less.

    Of course, what he really means to say is:

    “The argument that mass murder is okay ONLY when it is state sanctioned is absurd.”

    But he can’t get out that argumet because it’ too obviosu that somethig is wrong with an argument like that.

    And also, another thing: That America has killed “untold numbers” of (non-American) civilians, is a lie. And I don’t think this person cared at all whether it was the truth or not. He was just reaching for ajusf=ification. It;’s alie, although, of course, if he wanted to, he could always cite Hiroshima and Nagasaki as the government of Iran likes to do.

    All he did was ruin any chance for the GOP to win on the issue for several years.

    No, the democrats are afraid that that issue could gve them trouble wth gaining back people who voted for Obama and then Trump, so theya re nischaracterizing the killer’s ideology as whote supremacy.

    It’s actually profound. If someone was devoted enough to ruin so many families and his own for a cause, why wouldn’t he be devoted enough to pretend to be on the opposite side of the issue than he really is?

    Because he is an idiot, and had been led into this by other men. The crucial delusion he has: That a lot of other people share his beliefs.

    The only real solution is to completely ignore the views of these bastards.

    If you want to destroy an ideology you have to try to understand how it spreads.

    The biggest lie he told is that he acted alone, and didn’t contemplate this for more than a month.

    Sammy Finkelman (d542b2)

  66. One intersting question, (going as to when he wrote his manifesto)

    He refers to the “first” Democratic debate. Is that the second round of the June 26 and 27 debates where they all raised their hands and said they supported including illegal immigrants in their health care progam, or does this refer to the July 30 debate somehow? (the first of two the previous week)

    Here’s what the killer wrote:

    They have already begun the transition by pandering heavily to the Hispanic voting bloc in the 1st Democratic Debate. They intend to use open borders, free healthcare for illegals, citizenship and more to enact a political coup by importing and then legalizing millions of new voters. With policies like these, the Hispanic support for Democrats will likely become nearly unanimous in the future. The heavy Hispanic population in Texas will make us a Democrat stronghold. Losing Texas and a few other states with heavy Hispanic population to the
    Democrats is all it would take for them to win nearly every presidential election.

    (He then clarifies that the Republican Party isn’t all that great.)

    So he decided to kill Hospanics in order to scare them into leaving the United States:

    Statistically, millions of migrants have returned to their home countries to reunite with the family they lost contact with when they moved to America. They come here as economic immigrants, not for asylum reasons. This is an encouraging sign that the Hispanic population is willing to return to their home countries if given the right incentive. An incentive that myself and many other patriotic Americans will provide. This will remove the threat of the Hispanic voting bloc which will make up for the loss of millions of baby boomers. This will also make the elites that run corporations realize that it’s not in their interest to continue p??? off Americans.

    When analyzing this, you have to kind of ignore that it is not only evil, but nonsense. Nonsense about people losing contact with their families, when in realit they even send reittances. Nonsense about the only two reasons for coming to the United States being “economic” or “ssylum” Nonsense about the places they would go to being safer. Nonsense about that because a lot of Mexicans have gone back to Mexico in the last ten years (which is true) most Hispanics would be ready to pick up and leave if only given a little push. Nonsense about there being many people who think like him, and will kill Hispanics to chase them out and keep Texas from going blue.

    Sammy Finkelman (d542b2)


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