Does Identity Politics Work?
[Headline from DRJ]
Is Trump’s Use Of Identity Politics An Effective Strategy?
“We don’t really know” is an unsatisfying answer, but I think it’s an important one. That uncertainty explains why this question of how effective Trump’s stances on issues of race and identity remains so prominent in coverage of national politics, why the two parties, particularly the Democrats, are experiencing such internal friction about their possible electoral strategies and why that friction is unlikely to end until Election Day next year.
— DRJ
How do you define what “works?” If by “it worked,” you mean it got him elected in 2016, it most certainly did. If you’re asking if it will work in that manner in 2020, it is simply impossible to predict the future with 100% certainty.
Gryph (08c844) — 7/26/2019 @ 7:02 am— Is Trump’s Use Of Identity Politics An Effective Strategy?
nk (dbc370) — 7/26/2019 @ 7:09 am— You betcha! That’s how he got elected in the first place, and that’s how he has maintained his momentum with his base. I guarantee you it hasn’t been for giving tax cuts to his rich buddies, appointing Ivy League judges, or demonstrating exceptional character and intellect.
2. His buddies are his buddies precisely because he does favors for them. That didn’t start with his presidency. And as Pat has pointed out on multiple occasions, Trump doesn’t know enough about the judiciary to pick judges. He just gets the credit for the work and research of people demonstrably smarter than he is. And lastly…character? And intellect?!
*GUFFAW*
Gryph (08c844) — 7/26/2019 @ 7:28 amI’m not so sure. The article addressed Trump’s win in 2016 and outlines other ways to view it, primarily the result of partisanship (which fits the BINARY CHOICE argument we saw so much). Here is the conclusion but there is more at the link:
DRJ (15874d) — 7/26/2019 @ 7:45 amDoes being a racist bigot help Trump win elections? As if point of the question is to actually get an answer.
Munroe (0b2761) — 7/26/2019 @ 7:55 amTrolling today?
DRJ (15874d) — 7/26/2019 @ 7:56 amWell that’s the way the poll is phrased, now is trump addressing questions of immigration and culture that others arent even trying to, we know the dems want full amnesty, now not yesterday
Narciso (f848af) — 7/26/2019 @ 7:58 amTrump is not a racist bigot anymore than a snake oil salesman suffers from ‘the ague’ and ‘the rheumatiz’ his own self. If you know what I mean and I think you do.
nk (dbc370) — 7/26/2019 @ 7:58 amWorks for a dummy like me.
mg (8cbc69) — 7/26/2019 @ 8:03 amThe Democrats view it like Munroe:
DRJ (15874d) — 7/26/2019 @ 8:03 amIs Trump’s Use Of Identity Politics An Effective Strategy?
Projecting today?
PTw (e093e4) — 7/26/2019 @ 8:28 amI realize that 527 exists to make politics a science, rather than an art, but I don’t think this question gets us very far with analyzing Trump’s appeal. Imagine Jeb or Romney running the same sort of campaign. Think either would have won?
Trump has fused rather “moderate” positions on the budget and entitlements with very vocal “far right” positions on things important to talk radio hosts in the front lines of the Culture War. Identity politics is a component of that, but not the whole of it.
Appalled (c9622b) — 7/26/2019 @ 8:31 amWhat’s so far right about them, actual policies I mean or even statements because the Atlanta journal says so.
Narciso (f848af) — 7/26/2019 @ 8:35 amIn the Culture War, Trump is 4-F, Section 8, and Fifth Column.
nk (dbc370) — 7/26/2019 @ 8:37 amWhen the opposition party is 24/7 100% identity politics and yet it’s projected on Trump….
Why not just go full Simple Jack and ask if racist tweets and concentration camps will backfire with minority voters?
harkin (58d012) — 7/26/2019 @ 8:41 am_
“The Democrats view it like Munroe”
DRJ (15874d) — 7/26/2019 @ 8:03 am
I’m sorry — what??
Munroe (0b2761) — 7/26/2019 @ 8:45 amThe thing to remember when analyzing Trump’s approach and its effectiveness is that recent history demonstrates that if the Mainstream Media cannot find anything a Republican has said or done that is racist, sexist, or homophobic, they are perfectly prepared to make something up. So, playing nice is NEVER an effective option.
C. S. P. Schofield (9eb8bc) — 7/26/2019 @ 9:04 amMaybe the answer is a question: “What else does he have besides identity politics?” And the answer is: “Nothing!”
You can pick any person at random from the telephone book who is more qualified to be President. More intelligent, more competent, more moral, more educated, more articulate, more hard-working, more even-tempered, more patriotic, more caring, more conscientious, more sane, more physically fit, more hair, more everything.
What that person won’t have is Trump’s 14,015,993 deplorables who gave him the primary in 2016 and are staving off a primary challenge now.
nk (dbc370) — 7/26/2019 @ 9:18 amThat headline was not written by me. Are you projecting?
DRJ (15874d) — 7/26/2019 @ 10:26 amMunroe,
Trump constantly injects identity and race into public discussion. Accepting that fact and addressing it is not like “When did you last beat your wife?” I chose to link an article that actually tries to cut through the emotion and discuss it based what little facts we have. Would you rather I link Andrew Napolitano’s opinion?
DRJ (15874d) — 7/26/2019 @ 10:36 amThat headline was not written by me. Are you projecting?
Did I say it was? Though perhaps now you are. Perhaps. Just maybe.
PTw (e093e4) — 7/26/2019 @ 10:36 amThen I missed your point. What is it?
DRJ (15874d) — 7/26/2019 @ 10:37 amOh, I get it. You are responding to my “Trolling today?” comment with this troll. Got it.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/26/2019 @ 10:39 amTroll. The cop-out answer. Scroll past harkin’s valid point at 15, re When the opposition party is 24/7 100% identity politics and yet it’s projected on Trump…. (essentially what I was saying) and Shofield’s at 17 to play your own little troll game. So no, you don’t “Got it”.
“It” is the absurdity of taking at face value a 527 assertion that Trump is the guy using identity politics…well exactly what harkin said at 15. Trump has considerable support among blacks, hispanics, (hindu)Indians, West Indians, women, etc. without pandering to them. But OK. Troll.
PTw (e093e4) — 7/26/2019 @ 10:54 am538 not 527….whatevs…
PTw (e093e4) — 7/26/2019 @ 11:03 amTrump: These fake news polls showing me trailing Biden are obviously rigged by … FoxNews!
(h/t: Allahpundit)
Dave (1bb933) — 7/26/2019 @ 11:03 amI’m copping out by posting something that says Trump did not win because of identity politics or race, because … race. Got it.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/26/2019 @ 11:10 amWho thinks Trump never injects identity politics or race in the national debate, but “it’s projected on Trump”? Help me understand your view.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/26/2019 @ 11:15 amAlso, in the future should I avoid articles like this that are more nuanced and go straight to Fox News (like my Napolitano link)?
DRJ (15874d) — 7/26/2019 @ 11:18 amYou blasphemed the Sacred Orange with less than unreserved praise, that’s what you did, DRJ.
nk (dbc370) — 7/26/2019 @ 11:20 amRevisionist history is nonpartisan.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/26/2019 @ 11:21 amThe problem with Trump isn’t just race as much as bullying everyone who isn’t completely subservient, and now the GOP is joining in by celebrating how they bullied a sick old man.
I don’t know if this is true about Mueller but only cads brag about hurting the old, the sick or the weak.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/26/2019 @ 11:32 amLike I said in the other thread, Mueller had Trump scared shiftless for two years. Their mockery now their way of “getting even”.
nk (dbc370) — 7/26/2019 @ 11:40 am*is* their way
But that’s all Trump is good for, anyway. Trash-talk.
nk (dbc370) — 7/26/2019 @ 11:42 am“and now the GOP is joining in by celebrating how they bullied a sick old man.”
DRJ (15874d) — 7/26/2019 @ 11:32 am
If Papadopoulos, Trump, et al had been sick old men, surely Mueller wouldn’t have bullied them. I think that’s your point.
Munroe (0b2761) — 7/26/2019 @ 11:55 amthe media, the schools, even corporate America, pushes identity politics, 24/7, only of the woke sjw kind, so a tiny pushback is warranted,
narciso (d1f714) — 7/26/2019 @ 12:11 pmGOP is joining in by celebrating how they bullied a sick old man.
Lord. This is the new line now, isn’t it? Mueller was the guy who was going to nail Trump, hit him hard. Mueller, he’s our man. Then suddenly, tragically, the night before (or maybe the morning of?) his appearance before congress, he was struck down. Struck down hard, with Sudden Onset Dementia Syndrome. Also known as SODS. The poor bugger. But the D’s and NT’s sent him on in that morning anyway to face the mean, meanest meanies that ever meanied a mean room, the Full Throated All Supporting God Emperor Trumpeteeters. Look how weak and frail he is. Look at what mean, mean bullies they are. Why, when you think of it he’s only a few years younger than Vincent Gigante was when he died. Sad. And if there’s one thing you can say for Mueller, he never bullied anyone. Never ever. And if he did, well they deserved it.
“Bullied a sick old man”. That’s how it’s going to be now. Have you no sense of self-respect? At long last, have you left no sense of self-awareness? But that’s not the point here isn’t it? This itself is just a passive-aggressive troll. Keep stating absurdities until someone calls you on them and then cry that they hurt you and ban them. And then the echo chamber can keep believing whatever it wishes. OrangeManBad.
PTw (e093e4) — 7/26/2019 @ 12:18 pmAndrew Napolitano:
Trump doesn’t make distinctions on the basis of race. he makes distinctions in the basis on national origin.
Except that he tries sometimes to put people into the “other” category who don’t belong.
Maybe because distinction on the basis of national origin or citizenship or original citizenship doesn’t have any emotional resonance.
Sammy Finkelman (102c75) — 7/26/2019 @ 12:23 pmMueller – a republican showed how far the party has fallen.
mg (8cbc69) — 7/26/2019 @ 12:24 pmPorky Gaetz; the only chubster in Congress who can make Louis Gohmert sound like Einstein.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 7/26/2019 @ 12:24 pm32… that’s pretty weak. Mueller’s team went out of its way to bleed several people to near destitution and you write this. Really a stretch.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 7/26/2019 @ 12:27 pmThe apotheosis of 2019 is going to be how whining and bullying is combined into one neat package, without even a comma to separate the two approaches.
Appalled (c9622b) — 7/26/2019 @ 12:33 pm“The apotheosis of 2019 is going to be how whining and bullying is combined into one neat package, without even a comma to separate the two approaches.”
Appalled (c9622b) — 7/26/2019 @ 12:33 pm
You mean NeverTrump still has untapped potential?
Munroe (0b2761) — 7/26/2019 @ 12:37 pmIt’s actually pretty bi-partisan. The lefty kids at the colleges had this perfected first. (And to be NeverTrump, don’t you have to be GOP? I’m one of those independents people used pander to, before base pandering turned into a thing)
Appalled (c9622b) — 7/26/2019 @ 12:51 pmPTw doesn’t strike me as a straight shooter.
Dustin (e01605) — 7/26/2019 @ 12:52 pmNo not necessarily:
https://libertyunyielding.com/2019/07/25/ilhan-omar-made-false-racist-claim-about-killings/
Narciso (f848af) — 7/26/2019 @ 12:58 pmJust because he represents Florida (and the panhandle at that) doesnt mean you should besmirch a fine film franchise, DCSCA (your #40).
urbanleftbehind (5eecdb) — 7/26/2019 @ 2:03 pmDo you feel better now? Then look at my link:
The Trump supporters in the GOP were so proud of what they did that they spiked the ball about having bullied a sick old man to win.
As I said, I don’t know if that is what happened here. All I know is that is what they think happened, and they are proud of it.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/26/2019 @ 3:02 pmhow it plays out specially in central florida,
https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/latino/kathleen-krumhansl/2019/07/26/spanish-nets-covering-puerto-rico-crisis-spotlight
narciso (d1f714) — 7/26/2019 @ 3:04 pmTell me, PTw, so it is perfectly clear where you stand: Are you still asking me, “Have you no sense of self-respect?” Or should you be asking that of the Trump supporters who celebrated this?
DRJ (15874d) — 7/26/2019 @ 3:12 pmYou can answer that, too, Munroe.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/26/2019 @ 3:14 pmBy the way, I am not banning anyone. It isn’t my blog and I have no interest in doing that. I simply want you to think about other points of view. You seem to think I am your (or maybe Trump’s) enemy but you are wrong. However, I do expect an answer.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/26/2019 @ 3:18 pmanother sterling performance by boot,
https://twitter.com/amber_athey/status/1154765915516493824
narciso (d1f714) — 7/26/2019 @ 3:19 pmpeople who don’t answer mueller, exactly the way some other source have told him, have been known to lose their liberty, so I’m not sorry in the latest, he was asked about the subject of an investigation that he has spent 40 million dollars, and has enabled multiple instance of omissions of key facts from the record, re papadopolous page manafort caputo, et al,
narciso (d1f714) — 7/26/2019 @ 3:25 pmWould you answer my question, narciso? I am interested in what your answer might be. It is often hard for me to tell what you think.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/26/2019 @ 3:31 pmmaybe Allah’s representation wasn’t entirely complete,
“I told my colleagues to expect him to be like a wolverine and they’d better know every chapter and verse and citation for every question,” he said.
He has been the well remunerated counsel for major global corporations. it’s his name on the report, he should be accountable for it,
narciso (d1f714) — 7/26/2019 @ 3:41 pmThe nerve of those Republicans bullying Mueller into admitting he wasn’t familiar with Fusion GPS.
harkin (58d012) — 7/26/2019 @ 3:56 pm“You can answer that, too, Munroe.”
DRJ (15874d) — 7/26/2019 @ 3:14 pm
Answer what? So confused.
Did I question someone’s self respect? Or, are you questioning mine? What?
Munroe (0b2761) — 7/26/2019 @ 4:03 pmone must genuflect at all times, ignore his cavalier abuse of public power on multiple occasions, the lives he has ruined through action or omission, now this isn’t unique to mueller, Lawrence walsh and pat fitzgerald were the same way, when democrats are in the cross hairs, they become the prey, clown nose off, clown nose on,
narciso (d1f714) — 7/26/2019 @ 4:07 pmso is that an accurate reflection of what matt gaetz said, or is allah misrepresenting the gist of the interview, so the subject isn’t the utter lack of due process that has been going on for three years, but the feelings of some people,
narciso (d1f714) — 7/26/2019 @ 4:16 pmMunroe,
Your comment 35 purports to explain “my point” regarding bullying, so I am asking you to respond to the same question I asked PTw about it at comment 49. You were interested enough to comment on the topic, right?
DRJ (15874d) — 7/26/2019 @ 4:39 pmI guess one could chalk this up to oikophobia,
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/14585/the-english-job-jack-straw
narciso (d1f714) — 7/26/2019 @ 4:41 pmThat was Ed, not Allah, narciso. Here is the Washington Times’ article with the original story:
That doesn’t sound like Fake News to me.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/26/2019 @ 4:44 pm“Patting themselves on the back” is another quote I didn’t use, out of kindness to the GOP and Trump. Just as I linked an article that concludes Trump’s win may not be due to racial or identity politics. In response, Trump supporters claim I have no self-respect and use race/identity politics against Trump.
FWIW I won’t change my beliefs or how I blog or treat commenters because of this. I know not everyone has time to read every link, but why attack the post or other comments if you don’t bother to read things?
DRJ (15874d) — 7/26/2019 @ 4:52 pm‘Your comment 35 purports to explain “my point” regarding bullying, so I am asking you to respond to the same question I asked PTw about it at comment 49.’
DRJ (15874d) — 7/26/2019 @ 4:39 pm
I never questioned your self respect. There’s my answer.
Are you questioning mine? There’s my question.
Munroe (0b2761) — 7/26/2019 @ 4:53 pmI never questioned yours.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/26/2019 @ 4:55 pmNo Allah deliberately left that sentence out of gaetz interview, just like explanatory material Eis left out of these soarks the press turns into a brishfire.
Narciso (f848af) — 7/26/2019 @ 4:58 pmDo you agree with PTw’s comment 37, Munroe?
DRJ (15874d) — 7/26/2019 @ 4:58 pmnarciso,
I told you it was Ed, not Allah, and what sentence was left out?
DRJ (15874d) — 7/26/2019 @ 5:00 pmYou understand that when blogs link and summarize articles, you have to read the linked article. They won’the tell you everything in the summary. Right?
DRJ (15874d) — 7/26/2019 @ 5:04 pm“Do you agree with PTw’s comment 37, Munroe?”
DRJ (15874d) — 7/26/2019 @ 4:58 pm
Why don’t you just take my comments at face value, rather than asking me to own someone else’s?
Had Papadopoulos been an old frail man, do you think Mueller would’ve taken his shoe off that guy’s neck?
I’m guessing Mueller was in much better shape two years ago, which means he could’ve saved himself and NeverTrump much embarrassment had he ended the nonsense then.
Munroe (0b2761) — 7/26/2019 @ 5:05 pm67. Methinks you presume on your audience’s intelligence.
Gryph (08c844) — 7/26/2019 @ 5:05 pmThe one I cited, specifically, it’s very convenient that Mueller pretended not to know the basis of this report, considering a reptesementationd have been challenged recently
Narciso (f848af) — 7/26/2019 @ 5:06 pmYes but people dont always read the source,
Narciso (f848af) — 7/26/2019 @ 5:12 pmA palate cleanser:
https://youtu.be/mQKRAJTgEuo
Narciso (f848af) — 7/26/2019 @ 5:19 pm“Sure, his service as a Marine destroying damn communists in the ’60s goes a long way, but then spearheading, in a figurehead sort of way, the dishonorable destruction of the lives of many, many decent Americans for the unforgivable crime of daring to work with a president our elite disdains more than balances out the good. Mueller made a choice to play along with the soft coup because, like so many other useless DC creatures, he felt that his caste had the right to countermand the will of the electorate.
So, don’t expect me to shed any tears for his tattered reputation. When all those innocent people he trashed in his quest to undo the 2016 election get their reputations back – and when they get made whole from being impoverished by the lawyer bills they were forced to incur – I’ll start caring that Robert Mueller’s legacy will be that of a doddering oaf who scratched his scattered head and wondered aloud what that newfangled “Fusion GPS” was.
Oh boy, he locked up Manafort, but not any Podestas or anyone else not associated with Trump. Dossier? What dossier?
The fix was in, except he and his band of I’m With Her prosecutors couldn’t even pull off the frame.
To the extent I was glad that the GOP inquisitors eventually eased up on him when it became obvious that he was a sad joke manipulated by the Felonia Milhous von Pantsuit donors who made up his staff, it was only because, as a trial lawyer, I know that sometimes too much righteous wrath, no matter how righteous, has the effect of generating sympathy for those who deserve none. He offered no mercy to his victims, only payoffs to those who groveled for him – Joseph Mifsud lied to him multiple times and yet he remains unindicted. Mike Flynn, after decades of military service that meant nothing to the people constantly trumpeting Mueller’s, didn’t lie (according to the FBI agents he allegedly lied to), but he got threatened into pleading out to save his son from Mueller’s pack of jackals.”
https://townhall.com/columnists/kurtschlichter/2019/07/26/good-riddance-to-bob-mueller-n2550676
harkin (58d012) — 7/26/2019 @ 5:21 pmPapadopoulos was a Russian asset who perjured himself repeatedly to protect his masters.
Mueller wasn’t.
Dave (1bb933) — 7/26/2019 @ 5:24 pmTrump just now in the Oval Office:
– Subpoena all of Obama’s records.
– Subpoena all of the records having to do with Hillary Clinton.
– Subpoena the Clinton Foundation.
– Look into the book deal that President Obama made.
– GOP will hold House, Senate & White House.
https://twitter.com/bennyjohnson/status/1154854056894054400
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 7/26/2019 @ 5:30 pmI think it’s all horsesh!t. I think Mueller is sharper and healthier than the orange. But orange-lovers to project almost as much as they love the orange.
BTW, the orange is getting his spike fence. https://www.foxnews.com/politics/supreme-court-paves-way-for-trump-administration-to-use-military-funds-for-border-wall
nk (dbc370) — 7/26/2019 @ 5:30 pmNo he was an oil analyst summoned by Alex downer,
Narciso (f848af) — 7/26/2019 @ 5:31 pmHaving received info from mifsud who ran an intelligence training center for various agencies
Narciso (f848af) — 7/26/2019 @ 5:34 pm74… tenacious digging and still no pony!
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 7/26/2019 @ 5:35 pmQuite an admission from her:
Narciso (f848af) — 7/26/2019 @ 5:37 pmhttps://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2019/07/former_msnbc_host_admits_the_network_got_deep_into_russia_conspiracy_theories_and_damaged_the_dems.html?fbclid=IwAR0maNKWqiacmSrju-dIC1WlbEwSH7lEwsn6Gdb29aMyi0g4xTbo8I-M5nk
No collusion… no conspiracy… no obstruction…
No $ale.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 7/26/2019 @ 5:37 pm75. The White House has subpoena power? Wow!
nk (dbc370) — 7/26/2019 @ 5:38 pmThe fisa court apparently doesn’t mind being treated like mushrooms, neither Vance nor bhaara nor Schneiderman were even curious about the foundations the servers or anything of the kind. Of course Loretta lynch ran interference.
Narciso (f848af) — 7/26/2019 @ 5:48 pmDuh. Haven’t you read Article 2? It says so right there: the President can do whatever he wants.
Dave (1bb933) — 7/26/2019 @ 5:49 pmIt’s his right!
Dave (1bb933) — 7/26/2019 @ 5:51 pm74… Papadopoulos was such a nefarious asset that he served a full 14 day sentence.
Mifsud’s communications with his handlers tell of how innocuous his discussions with this guy were. But, by all means… keep on with the derangement syndrome.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 7/26/2019 @ 5:52 pm2.2 % chance of obtaining the desired result…
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 7/26/2019 @ 5:56 pmNow people dont always know not to take MSNBC seriously
Narciso (f848af) — 7/26/2019 @ 5:57 pmhttps://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/gregory-price/2019/07/26/msnbc-republican-strategist-you-need-attack-and-scare-republicans
But Scott Petersen was surprised
Narciso (f848af) — 7/26/2019 @ 6:10 pmhttps://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/parkland/florida-school-shooting/fl-ne-school-searched-cruz-for-weapons-20190726-vhke4pzynbfmvm33vhtgpfrfm4-story.html
Narciso (f848af) — 7/26/2019 @ 5:57 pm
Attack a pundit for saying something she didn’t say…
Kishnevi (df17af) — 7/26/2019 @ 6:15 pmStandard Internet practice.
A federal hack in black judge in Kentucky Friday threw out a defamation lawsuit filed against The Washington Post by Covington Catholic High School student/racist punk Nicholas Sandmann…
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 7/26/2019 @ 6:40 pmMunroe:
You commented on the same topic as PTw so I asked you if you agreed with his comment. That is not asking you to own his comment — it is the opposite, in fact, because I asked you if you agreed. Do you want to discuss things or not?
DRJ (15874d) — 7/26/2019 @ 6:58 pmLike with Brexit, they decide a vote is illegitimate and because they have the preponderance of the educational and media and legal establishment they shape the resistance that has been going on for three years.
Narciso (f848af) — 7/26/2019 @ 7:12 pmWell with Brexit they also have half the country thinking Brexit is a really bad idea, even if it wasn’t going to be implemented by a troop of clowns.
Kishnevi (df17af) — 7/26/2019 @ 7:24 pmWell half and half didnt and they’ve been gaslighting the one that did.
Narciso (f848af) — 7/26/2019 @ 7:49 pm