Patterico's Pontifications

7/20/2019

Trump: I Disagree With That ‘Send Her Back’ Nonsense. Also Trump: Those ‘Send Her Back’ Supporters Are Incredible Patriots

Filed under: General — Dana @ 7:26 am



[guest post by Dana]

One day after his supporters chanted “send her back” at this week’s rally in North Carolina, and after taking heat from Melania and Ivanka Trump about it,
President Trump sought to distance himself from the supporters :

“I was not happy with it. I disagree with it,” Trump told reporters at the White House.

He also told reporters that he “felt badly” about the chanting.

Yet, the following day, Trump reversed course, and touted the chanting supporters:

Trump also praised his supporters who chanted at a rally, “Send her back!,” a refrain directed at one of the lawmakers, Somali-born Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-Minn.). The president called the campaign crowd “incredible patriots” — a day after saying he disagreed with the chant.

Those are incredible people. Those are incredible patriots,” the president said…

“She’s lucky to be where she is, let me tell you,” he said. “And the things that she has said are a disgrace to our country.”

Asked about his unhappiness with the rally chant, Trump said: “You know what I’m unhappy with? I’m unhappy with the fact that a congresswoman can hate our country. I’m unhappy with the fact that a congresswoman can say anti-Semitic things.”

Reporters asked Trump if he believed that the “Send her back!” chant was racist.

“No, you know what’s racist to me? When somebody goes out and says the horrible things about our country, the people of our country, that are anti-Semitic, who hate everybody, who speak with scorn and hate,” Trump said. “ . . . We’re dealing with people who hate our country.”

Here is video of the president sharing with reporters his complete list of things that he is unhappy about with regard to the Democratic congresswomen:

Trump also bizarrely warned about criticizing the United States on his watch:

Trump said Friday that criticism of the United States is unacceptable and that the four congresswomen “can’t get away with” it.

“I can tell you this, you can’t talk that way about our country, not when I’m the president,” he told reporters outside the White House.

Every American has the right of free speech under the First Amendment of the Constitution, a reporter pointed out — and the president acknowledged that.

“We have First Amendment rights also ­— we can . . . say what we want,” Trump said. It was unclear who he was referring to as “we.”

As is standard practice, the media was also targeted by Trump:

In tweets earlier Friday, Trump characterized media coverage of his rally in Greenville, N.C., as “crazed” and complained that the media was “totally calm & accepting” of what he said were “vile and disgusting statements” made by Omar and the three other minority congresswomen whom he has repeatedly criticized in recent days.

Trump also complained that the media covered the return of Omar to her home state Thursday. She was greeted at the Minneapolis−St. Paul International Airport by a crowd chanting, “Welcome home, Ilhan!”

(Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.)

–Dana

125 Responses to “Trump: I Disagree With That ‘Send Her Back’ Nonsense. Also Trump: Those ‘Send Her Back’ Supporters Are Incredible Patriots”

  1. What a difference a day makes…

    Dana (bb0678)

  2. You mean the mendaciousness of the media abetgung the gang, no just a day ending in y.

    You picked up the #deport Melania meme didnt you, touted by the

    Narciso (c67b88)

  3. You picked up the #deport Melania meme didnt you, touted by the

    No. What I’ve done in this post is to share what Trump said one day, then said the folowing day about the same subject. If you have an issue about his disavowing his disavowal, maybe take it up with the president.

    Dana (bb0678)

  4. Russiam truther louise mensch right?

    Narciso (c67b88)

  5. Dems and NeverTrump: I disagree with Omar’s anti-Semitic nonsense. Also Dems and NeverTrump: Omar is being attacked because of her race.

    Munroe (0b2761)

  6. I dont think it’s that big a deal, the fact that the left has gone after a patriot like dr. Gorka and the first lady is more significant.
    His father fought the nazis and andropov thugs ai naturally they paint him as a nazi.

    Narciso (c67b88)

  7. Russiam truther louise mensch right?

    Louise Mensch?? Seriously? What are you talking about, narciso? Trump said one thing one day, the next day he flipped and said something different about the same thing. Everything isn’t some super-duper, multi-layered strategical complexity that only his enlightened can see. Sometimes it’s just Trump turning on a dime. Let’s let him own that.

    Dana (bb0678)

  8. They self selected themselves she came here through fraud, she spits on americam servicemen who died trying to protect food convoys in her godforsaken country, from thugs like aidid, who enabled al queda to take their first shot.

    Narciso (c67b88)

  9. Trump says one thing one day and reverses course the next. I think we can agree on that, as it has been highlighted many, many times.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  10. I’m pretty sure it’s because he can’t remember what he said the previous day. I am also pretty sure that he could not pass the cognitive test for dementia if it were administered by any doctor other than a Rear Admiral who wanted to be Surgeon General.

    nk (dbc370)

  11. If Trump first said they weren’t patriots before then saying they were patriots, he would have reversed course.

    If Trump first said he didn’t like the chat before then saying that he did like the chant, he would have reversed course.

    He did neither.

    BuDuh (4f9117)

  12. Trump says one thing one day and reverses course the next. I think we can agree on that, as it has been highlighted many, many times.

    So why believe anything he says?

    Dana (bb0678)

  13. So why believe anything he says?

    Because it feels good!

    Dave (1bb933)

  14. I’m providing the subtext, now the nets will not do it, even the Washington examiner will do it apologetically, not even citing powerline’s research,

    narciso (d1f714)

  15. There’s no law or rule that patriots can’t be gullible. Or, for that matter, there’s no law that says radical socialists can’t be gullible. So those who believe that John Kerry was unfairly “Swift Boated” might be patriots. Those who think Obama’s literary agent lied about his author’s birthplace might be patriots. Those who affirm that Sarah Palin once said she could see Russia from her porch might actually be patriots.

    Pouncer (df6448)

  16. So, our national rhetoric has finally descended into an absolute sewer. I’ve been worried about this.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  17. So why believe anything ANY ONE OF THEM says?

    “Good government” is an oxymoron. Sometimes it’s just a bit clearer.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  18. I believe half of what any politician says. I want to see what they do.

    And I’ve been pleasantly surprised by most of what Trump has accomplished against all odds the last couple of years.

    Colonel Haiku (89ebb5)

  19. I do not fault Trump’s political instinct in focusing attention on the Squad, and in trying to portray it as being representative of the Democratic Party broadly and whomever it nominates to run against him in particular. Picking the most noxious or ridiculous or misguided from among one’s opponents, and trying to use that target to frame the debate is absolutely commonplace in politics and always has been, surely going back at least to the Roman Senate.

    In Munroe’s formulation, I disagree with Omar’s anti-Semitic nonsense, and with a great deal of her other nonsense. I certainly believe the growing instability within the Democratic Party, and the ever increasing likelihood that the Squad or its allies will indeed dominate Democratic Party politics from the far fringes — in much the same way Trump is trying, with considerable success, to dominate the GOP from the far fringes — is a good reason for doubtful Democrats or independents to vote for GOP candidates instead in 2020, all the way down the national and state tickets from U.S. Senate to precinct dog-catcher. I not only believe in, but observe the objective reality that ours is, a two-party system, and focusing on the Squad’s and its allies’ policies and bad judgment as part of an opposition to the Democratic Party is as much as part of two-party politics as is touting one’s own Party’s candidates.

    I except out the very top of the ticket; I don’t intend to vote for Trump either in the GOP primary nor the general election, no more than I would vote for any Democratic Party nominee for POTUS. I can’t therefore urge people to vote for someone whom I consider unfit for any public office, someone who daily does damage to America’s long-term interests both tangible and intangible.

    It is entirely consistent with that, however, to express revulsion and condemnation for Trump’s use of national origin and race, rather than policies and judgment, to frame his attacks.

    I’ve written before that I don’t believe Trump is a racist, nor for that matter, an extreme nationalist — and he’s certainly not a patriot. He’s a con man, and he lacks sufficient empathy for anything or anyone but himself, Trump (addressing himself in the royal third person) aka “the Trump Brand.” To be a racist or a nationalist — or for that matter, a Democrat or Republican or a moderate or an extremist or a free-trader or pro-tariff or pro-life or pro-choice — Trump would have to give at least one tiny sh!t about other people affected by any of those issues. To be a racist, for example, he’d have to identify with people of his own race. He doesn’t identify with anything but Trump — period, no exceptions, including his own flesh and blood.

    But he certainly doesn’t want to leave those racist, extreme nationalist, pro-tariff, pro-life votes just laying on the floor, does he? Oh, no — how could any good con man write off those members of these constituencies who are suckers enough to believe him and, more importantly, believe in him? No, that would be bad — bad for the Trump Brand to waste those votes, wouldn’t it?

    Trump isn’t reversing himself. He’s not just doing 180-degree flips, he’s constantly doing a full 360-degree somersault, insisting upon having it both ways, all the time.

    It’s like he has a gigantic neon sign, an arrow in purple and yellow and green and scarlet pulsing up and down, lit like the sun and pointed at him, with the words “CON MAN” strobing into the sky like lasers at a rock concert. But the more obvious it is, the more his cult worships him and each other, all bathing in corrupt, sickening cross-confirmations to make them all feel better about the crap they’re swallowing by the metric ton.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  20. one wishes there was a way to raise these issues, but frankly no one else is bringing them up,

    https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/us-considers-dna-tests-for-some-refugees/

    any executive order gets countermanded by a democratic apparatchiks, or a sympathetic atty general, that’s how the ny redistricting case came to be,

    narciso (d1f714)

  21. Dana: So why believe anything he says?

    Beldar: Trump isn’t reversing himself. He’s not just doing 180-degree flips, he’s constantly doing a full 360-degree somersault, insisting upon having it both ways, all the time.

    I agree with both these thoughts, but I think Simon Jester is right. It is no longer about truth/falsity, right/wrong, or consistent/inconsistent. It is about which tribe you are in, because each tribe thinks they are the only ones who know how to save America and the way of life they believe in.

    The end justifies the means for tribes. Inconsistency in the service of the greater good is not wrong, and may even be good.

    DRJ (15874d)

  22. People would get high on snake oil elixirs.

    nk (dbc370)

  23. Is it mean to want him to be in DC today?

    nk (dbc370)

  24. having learned nothing from the last four years:

    https://legalinsurrection.com/2019/07/merkel-slams-trump-sides-with-attacked-congresswomen/

    maybe she had ideological kinship,

    narciso (d1f714)

  25. The ends justifies the means for Trump loyalists. It is why they are so easily able to look the other way when he lies, when his corruption and hypocrisy are exposed, and when he talks out of both sides of his mouth. It. Doesn’t. Matter. What matters in this symbiotic relationship is that someone is listening to their frustrations and anger and telling them that of course, he’ll build that wall. And whether he is simply tapping into their emotions and exploiting them for his own gain, doesn’t matter either. It’s enough. That’s how the low bar is that too many Americans are willing to settle for.

    Dana (bb0678)

  26. The other option is to resist tribal membership altogether, and experience frustration, apathy, and exclusion while patiently waiting for the political pendulum to swing back toward a once-familiar center. And the pendulum is always in motion. Hopefully the wait won’t be too long…

    Dana (bb0678)

  27. young women, middle-aged women, old women, bring them all on

    mr. donald the president also known as trump isn’t scared of any of them and i love him so much for it

    nk (dbc370)

  28. Beldar and DRJ are making sense, but I think there’s enough body of work to agree to disagree on his racism. He can be a con man and a bigot.

    Paul Montagu (dbd3cc)

  29. Agree with 19. Trump’s not a racist, just an opportunist willing to use race to gin up his base. He’s not principled enough to be a racist. His only principle is “Me.” More him, all the time. The GOP and for that matter the country are willing to bend over and let him have his way with them as long as (they think) they are getting what they want.

    JRH (2f7df9)

  30. 25… to continue this exercise in ascribing the worst possible depiction of the motivation of others, or you may choose to bend over, grab your anklesand take the punishment a do-nothing Congress and a two term far-left Democrat in the White House will bring.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  31. It’s not inconsistent for someone to be an incredible patriot and also use an inappropriate chant. BTW I predict that Trump’s criticism of that chant means it won’t be used in subsequent rallies.

    David in Cal (0d5a1d)

  32. After three years of this feltercarb, their perseverance is incredible.

    Narciso (c67b88)

  33. Col Haiku @ 30,

    You may not see it this way, but I see a clear distinction between “Trump loyalists” and people who voted for Trump (just to keep Hillary out).

    Dana (bb0678)

  34. Trump’s not a racist, just an opportunist willing to use race to gin up his base.

    I see.

    So I guess Louis Farrakhan and David Duke aren’t racists either then, just “opportunists willing to use race to gin up their respective bases”.

    If using peoples’ race/ethnicity to vilify and demean them isn’t enough, what would Trump need to do to qualify as an actual racist, in your view?

    Reinstitute chattel slavery? Build gas chambers?

    Dave (1bb933)

  35. I’m not convinced Trump holds any beliefs that are actually rooted in any philosophical principles or beliefs. That’s not who he is. And it’s nothing he has an interest in exploring. The immediate response to any situation that arises, is how does this benefit me and how can I use it promote myself . Everything else stems from that. And on occasion, there may be the happy coincidence of him using it to benefit and promote his brand also benefits the people of the U.S. And that’s what a large swath of Americans have accepted as governing. Happy coincidences.

    Dana (bb0678)

  36. When a person says all these things about our United States, I say send him back, especially when the guy was working a real estate deal with a hostile foreign power while running for this nation’s highest office. Unpatriotic and un-American.
    “Our country is in serious trouble. We don’t have victories anymore.”
    “We’re becoming a third-world country.”
    “Other nations and other countries don’t want to hear about American exceptionalism. They’re insulted by it.”
    “You think our country’s so innocent?”

    Paul Montagu (dbd3cc)

  37. I don’t know whether Trump is a racist or bigot. It was commonplace in past generations for people to fit today’s definition of those terms, and he is older.

    What matters to me is whether he acts or talks like a racist/bigot, because IMO that makes it more likely he will govern that way. He does, from back in the 1970’s when he and his father discriminated against blacks, all the way to the present with his walk-the-racist-tightrope rhetoric. Trump would make me worry if I were a black or brown American now.

    DRJ (15874d)

  38. The end justifies the means for tribes. Inconsistency in the service of the greater good is not wrong, and may even be good.

    From Dana:

    I see a clear distinction between “Trump loyalists” and people who voted for Trump (just to keep Hillary out).

    Isn’t a hold-your-nose vote a perfect example of “end justifies the means?”

    BuDuh (4f9117)

  39. Isn’t a hold-your-nose vote a perfect example of “end justifies the means?”

    Dana can answer for herself, but to me “the ends justify the means” is a way of rationalizing a good outcome achieved by doing something you acknowledge is bad.

    I think Dana’s “NeverHillary” voter, on the other hand, is under no illusion that they are accomplishing something good. Rather, they are choosing a bad outcome to avoid what they believe would be a worse outcome.

    Dave (1bb933)

  40. I think the motivations are different. Loyalists loved Trump from Day 1. They believe he spoke their language, and he *got them*. The voters in the latter category were motivated by voting by the lesser of two evils, not because they were enthralled by Trump. Some I know were even disgusted with him throughout the campaign, up until voting day. Yet they voted Trump because they felt they had to keep Hillary from winning at all costs. While Trump loyalists rationalize, defend and provide cover for his corruption and dishonesty, voters in the latter category are disgusted with him, and feel he is corrupt and divisive.

    Dana (bb0678)

  41. I was writing while you were commenting, Dave, but, yes. See my 41.

    Dana (bb0678)

  42. 39. I actually tend to agree. That’s why I didn’t vote for Trump OR Hillary. One of the most odious aspects of modern politics to me is the holding up of the RepubliCrat uniparty as a necessary evil when it is no more than a tradition.

    Gryph (08c844)

  43. What matters to me is whether he acts or talks like a racist/bigot, because IMO that makes it more likely he will govern that way.

    Trump loyalists go back and forth between: “He tells it like it is!” and “We don’t care what he tweets! He’s just trolling!” The more highbrow Trump defenders give us some version of the latter.

    It’s quite remarkable that thinking people – and people whose trade depends heavily on the effective use of language – would choose to believe that the way someone regularly speaks and behaves in public tells us nothing important about what motivates that person’s actions.

    Radegunda (f133c3)

  44. Nothing can change two things. First, most of the people whining about “Send her back” are unpatriotic. Second, most of those on the other side are fine American Patriots. Trump has it right.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  45. I think all the people having the vapors and clutching their pearls over “Send them back” should vote Democrat in 2020 or stay home. Just like they did in 2016.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  46. “America -love it or leave it” was a proud slogan that was seen everywhere in the 1970s. I’m sure Ronald Reagan endorsed it. Now suddenly, its racist.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  47. The immediate response to any situation that arises, is how does this benefit me and how can I use it promote myself . Everything else stems from that.

    This is the glaringly obvious, core trait of Donald Trump that legions of fans choose to ignore, telling themselves that he’s sacrificing everything for love of them.

    I think Trump’s self-worship and self-serving inclination are more fundamental to his character than any opinions or sentiments about race. Thus, Diamond and Silk and Kanye et al. can be on his “good” list by praising him.

    But that doesn’t mean he has no racial prejudice. (See #28 above.) Or that he won’t ever act on prejudice.

    Assuming that native-born Americans must have come from somewhere else and that their primary attachment or responsibility must be to some other country,

    because of their ethnicity

    , is categorically racist.

    Radegunda (f133c3)

  48. I’ve just added video of the president telling reporters all that he is unhappy with concerning the four Democratic congresswomen. Instead of an update at the bottom of the post, I fit it into the appropriate spot in the body of the post. It’s worth watching.

    Dana (bb0678)

  49. 47: Can you explain why it was fine for Trump to trash-talk America up until he was inaugurated – and even afterward – but it’s cool for Trump to say “You can’t talk bad about our country, not when I’m the president”?

    If America was so “broken,” “in a mess,” a “laughingstock,” “going to hell” etc. before Jan. 2017, why didn’t Trump follow his own (current) advice and get the heck out?

    And why do so many Trump loyalists equate any criticism of Trump with “hating America”?

    Radegunda (f133c3)

  50. Radegunda (f133c3) — 7/20/2019 @ 11:53 am

    Logic isn’t really their strong suit.

    Dave (1bb933)

  51. Isn’t a hold-your-nose vote a perfect example of “end justifies the means?”

    BuDuh (4f9117) — 7/20/2019 @ 10:17 am

    Maybe. I think it depends on how you define “The ends justify the means.” So let’s discuss the more traditional usage of this phrase, at least the way I was taught:

    The end excuses any evil. ” — Sophocles.

    As this quote suggests, we should discriminate between bad/evil means and good/well-intentioned means. And isn’t that really the thrust of the phrase? Don’t people sometimes justify doing things they know are evil, or they don’t care about the evil, because they want to get a specific end?

    You know I reluctantly voted for Trump — something you enjoy teasing/trying to provoke me about — so I suspect anything I say about that will irritate you. Millions of Americans voted for Trump. Some voted in the hope he would be great, some saw him as the lesser of two evils, some applauded him for standing up for America and certain values, and some thought his willingness to say and do bad things was his best feature. IMO only the last group are “means/end” voters as I understand the phrase.

    DRJ (15874d)

  52. You can’t speak about our country the way those four congressmen — they said, “garbage.” They say things about Israel that’s so bad I’m not even going to repeat them right now. They can’t get away with that act.

    Does he know that when he talks, it’s almost like he forgets which country is his? Not that I believe he has a single care whether Israel actually exists, outside of a talking point, but he needs to keep track of which talking point he’s lying about when he says them, else there may be some confusion. Israel is an ally, as is Canada, Australia, France, Belgium, but someone told him it might get him a few votes if he tries to tie the “squad” against Israel in some way, of which 2 of the three have said little about, the 3rd, barely anything, and Omar lots of stuff, just not what he claims, or seems to claim as he actually only talks about things “People say they said”, even when there are actual examples of general antipathy from Omar.

    I think these four congressmen — and I could say some worse than others — but if you look at the statements they’ve made, when they call the people of our country and our country “garbage,” when they hit Israel the way they’ve hit Israel so hard, so horrible — I think, to me, that’s a disgrace. And we should never forget it. We’re dealing with people that hate our country.

    Yeah. If you go back to the four congresswomen, the things they’ve said about our country are terrible. What they’ve said about Israel are just terrible.

    I don’t know — I can’t say for sure — but certainly a lot of people say they hate our country. And I think it’s a disgrace what they’ve said. I think you can’t talk that way about the United States.

    So I think, frankly, to say that about Israel — you know, we just gave the embassy in Jerusalem, making Jerusalem the capital of Israel. I just gave Golan Heights — recognized Golan Heights for Israel. I’ve done all of this for Israel.

    And then you have these people — I think that Omar — I find it hard to believe — but I hear Omar today put in, or yesterday put in a sanctions bill against Israel, and other things beyond sanctions. So, when I hear that, you just can’t talk about our country that way. And when people are angry at them, I fully understand them.

    Again, I’m not sure he knows which is his country, he is a moron, so probably not. And when did he get to name Israels capital, and give them land?

    Q Mr. President, did the First Lady approve of your tweets about the congresswomen?

    THE PRESIDENT: The First Lady feels very strongly about our country. The First Lady thinks that it’s horrible what they’ve said about Israel and horrible what they’ve said about our country — these congresswomen.

    They can’t call our country and our people “garbage.” They can’t be anti-Semitic. They can’t talk about “evil Jews,” which is what they say: “evil Jews.”

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  53. “America -love it or leave it” was a proud slogan that was seen everywhere in the 1970s. I’m sure Ronald Reagan endorsed it. Now suddenly, its racist.

    rcocean (1a839e) — 7/20/2019 @ 11:38 am

    These aren’t the same thing to me. “America, love it or leave it” told people who didn’t like traditional American policies and values that they should choose to leave. (I was alive in those years, and that’s how I think it was intended and received.)

    Meanwhile, “Send them back” says Americans who don’t like traditional American policies and values should be forced to leave. That’s very different, isn’t it?

    DRJ (15874d)

  54. “America -love it or leave it” was a proud slogan that was seen everywhere in the 1970s. I’m sure Ronald Reagan endorsed it. Now suddenly, its racist.

    You’re sure of that eh? Please, provide the reason you are so sure, like an instance of Reagan actually endorsing it.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  55. These aren’t the same thing to me. “America, love it or leave it” told people who didn’t like traditional American policies and values that they should choose to leave.

    Good thing the founding fathers didn’t take that advice, eh?

    “Bad-mouthing Parliament and the King, is it? After all England has done for you lot? Move to France or Spain then, you bloody ingrates!”

    Ditto for the abolitionists who eventually moved the country away from its repugnant acceptance of slavery.

    Ditto for the women who insisted on their equality under the law.

    Ditto for the descendants of the slaves and others who fought for civil rights and turned the soaring rhetoric of the Declaration of Independence from a cruel joke into a reality.

    The beauty of America is that if you’re unhappy with the government, you don’t have to run away. In fact, you’re not supposed to run away, which is the coward’s way out.

    We mock the limousine liberals who “threaten” to flee to Canada if this or that politician or policy they oppose gains ascendance, and rightly so.

    As the saying goes, we’ll only remain the Land of the Free as long as we’re the Home of the Brave. Rather than “America, love it or leave it,” I prefer: “These colors don’t run”.

    Dave (1bb933)

  56. True. I don’t think Americans should leave over politics, but being American means we get to choose and we can’t be sent away just because of our beliefs.

    DRJ (15874d)

  57. The nuremberg rallys are back on! AOC I am not going to auschwitz I am staying here!

    lany (ebb95a)

  58. You do understand that the next generation does not even grasp the basic notions of liberty because of the curriculum they have been fed, often by the likes of bill ayers, which have soviet designs to them,

    they understand microagression, but not freedom of speech, they acknowledge worship but not any real freedom of religion, the need for personal defense is foreign to them, this is what we see in the uk, where they have drifted away from family, from faith, from love of country, but they do worship the national health service, and they follow the bbc’s rostrums, the Church of England is mostly a dead letter,

    narciso (d1f714)

  59. America, love it or leave it: it was first popularized by Walter Winchell in defense of McCarthyism during the 1940s and 50s.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  60. I referred a few weeks ago, to ben Judah’s rather illuminating look at London, where many of these trends manifest itself, where public safety is at a premium, where economic security is in danger,
    even the nine years of tory presence, have not noticeably improved such circumstances, notice I don’t say rule, because they haven’t behaved like they should,

    the earlier links about omar’s bds bill tells you what she believes, and the fact that Pelosi is not strongly opposed tells you where the party is, I didn’t take Al green seriously but some people did because day ending in y, I have stated I see trump as an imperfect vehicle, for these reforms, but perfection isn’t at hand, I would support Cruz in another campaign, but the party establishment will not allow him to get to the final round, that would be singer and Epstein associate wexner for many of the same reasons,

    narciso (d1f714)

  61. I did not mean to give the impression that “Love it or Leave it” is a good sentiment. My point is that “Send them back” is, to me, an escalation of that sentiment because it implies your speech can get you sent away, i.e., deported.

    DRJ (15874d)

  62. “America, love it or leave it” on a church marquee is a bit disconcerting. If I’m being charitable, one assumes that it is motivated by nothing more than love of country. However, given that it’s the “Friendship” Baptist Church displaying the slogan in Appomattox, VA, makes me wonder.

    Dana (bb0678)

  63. Heh. Good point. Maybe they are going with the “friendlier” version.

    DRJ (15874d)

  64. Yes that’s a little disconcerting, but outreach is hard, when many have been trained to hate ‘true faith’ and the likes of Marianne Williamson, snake oil salesman, have risen so far, I could substitute Oprah, depak chopra, et al,

    narciso (d1f714)

  65. To me, “send them back” is worse because it implies that someone has the power over the individual – and in Omar’s case, an American citizen, to “send them back” because they aren’t ticking off the patriotic boxes. That should be chilling in this context. The obvious beauty and strength of America is that we have the freedom to be unpatriotic and to complain bitterly about this country. As distasteful as it might be to hear it, especially coming from elected officials. But in that case, blame the American voters for putting such people in office.

    Dana (bb0678)

  66. Now you know miss omar’s provenance, ocasio cortez’s is a little more perplexing, they are all cenk uygur’s puppets, there is nothing grass roots about here, except the rotten boroughs that fifty years of democratic dominance have yielded, Crowley btw is now working alongside Boehner, both representing angola, the erstwhile soviet puppet for patton boggs, lanny davis and ron browns own firm,

    narciso (d1f714)

  67. “Good thing the founding fathers didn’t take that advice, eh?”
    Dave (1bb933) — 7/20/2019 @ 1:02 pm

    They didn’t? How do you think states like Kentucky, Utah and California were created? Do you think the founders and their ancestors got here because they were happy with where they were?

    Good thing your ancestors did take that advice, otherwise you wouldn’t be here.

    There are no lack of countries that are more in line politically with what “the squad” apparently prefers. The suggestion that they likely would find more enjoyment living in those countries should be regarded as helpful advice, even if it’s following an example set by dead white males.

    Munroe (0b2761)

  68. They didn’t? How do you think states like Kentucky, Utah and California were created? Do you think the founders and their ancestors got here because they were happy with where they were?

    The Mormons were an exception, but the settlers of Kentucky, California and other western states didn’t migrate because they wanted to escape the US political system. Suggesting that they did is ludicrous.

    Kentucky and California were both within the borders of the United States when (European) settlement began in earnest.

    There are no lack of countries that are more in line politically with what “the squad” apparently prefers.

    Yes, and it’s a pity that apartheid fell by the wayside, isn’t it? Trump’s chanting bigots don’t have anywhere else to go.

    Dave (1bb933)

  69. Dave (1bb933) — 7/20/2019 @ 3:18 pm

    Dave, the ranks of our founders are replete with those that fled persecution in Europe. They were told to like their country or leave it, and they left. My ancestors did exactly that. Sorry if that doesn’t square with your historical revisionism.

    I see your apartheid and bigot cards are played.

    Munroe (0b2761)

  70. There are no lack of countries that are more in line politically with what “the squad” apparently prefers.

    The same could be said of many other people that Trump would never have told to “go back” to the countries from which they “originally came,” because he wouldn’t have regarded them as foreigners.

    Radegunda (f133c3)

  71. I see your apartheid and bigot cards are played.

    If the racists are prancing around tweeting, saying, cheering, chanting racist things, and you point at said racists and describe them as racist, that isn’t the race card, that’s just what they are, even if they aren’t wearing a Casper the ghost costume with a pointy hat.

    Donald Trump is a racist because of the words coming out of his face hole and tweeter thumbs. I don’t care/know what’s in his heart, his mouth noises say enough. The defense of the racist being that other people who were bigger racist existed, so it makes his racism fine, is also racist.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  72. Dave, the ranks of our founders are replete with those that fled persecution in Europe. They were told to like their country or leave it, and they left. My ancestors did exactly that. Sorry if that doesn’t square with your historical revisionism.

    Yeah, and I read somewhere that 11 states that felt the same way Trump’s dog-molesters do tried to leave America in 1860, as well. So why don’t Trump’s dog-molesters hoist their stars and bars one more time and march their asses out of our country? Whistling “Dixie” optional.

    nk (dbc370)

  73. Willie Horton.

    Kanye: “George Bush doesn’t care about black people.”

    Is the bigot card ever poorly played?

    Munroe (0b2761)

  74. Dave, the ranks of our founders are replete with those that fled persecution in Europe. They were told to like their country or leave it, and they left. My ancestors did exactly that. Sorry if that doesn’t square with your historical revisionism.

    Right. They fled because there was no mechanism to prevent their persecution or protect their rights in those places where they lived. The tyrants who ruled those places only gave them the same choice Trump is offering those who disagree with him: shut up and obey, or get out.

    It’s the same reason people flee Cuba, North Korea, South Sudan, etc today, and why they fled Eastern Europe and Nazi Germany before that.

    America is not like those places people had to flee. That is the whole point.

    Dave (1bb933)

  75. Is the bigot card ever poorly played?

    Especially not when said card has a picture of a bigot on it. Or are you saying Trump’s not a bigot. Say it out loud, don’t hedge. Is Trump a bigot, or are you talking about some hypothetical other person?

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  76. Trump isn’t a bigot, Klink.

    Are neither Bush Sr and Jr bigots? Tell me. Don’t hedge, Klink.

    I don’t think they are, but who knows where media narratives will lead you?

    And, when media narratives cast your future favorite candidate a bigot, rest assured it will be a LOL moment.

    Munroe (0b2761)

  77.  Don’t people sometimes justify doing things they know are evil, or they don’t care about the evil, because they want to get a specific end.

    Yes. I agree. And I think this accurately describes the end-justifies-the-means tribe comprised of persons who voted for Trump (a known evil to them) because they wanted to keep Hillary out of office (a specific end.)

    BuDuh (4f9117)

  78. just a small sample of where things are going wrong,

    https://www.nctm.org/equityandsocialjustice/

    narciso (d1f714)

  79. Trump isn’t a bigot, Klink.

    Snake oil salesmen did not drink their own nostrums, either. They only peddled them to the marks.

    nk (dbc370)

  80. how is your delightful governor, btw, is there anything he has yet to tax, how about his dubai papers connection,

    narciso (d1f714)

  81. OK, Trump’s not a bigot in your eyes, or more to the point, in your view, all the things he’s said aren’t racist, so how could they show he’s a bigot. And then you say some stuff about other people because…

    Bigot: one who regards or treats the members of a group (such as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.

    When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.

    “Why don’t they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came. Then come back and show us how it is done.”

    “They don’t look like Indians to me.”

    “Our current president came out of nowhere, came out of nowhere. The people who went to school with him—they never saw him; they don’t know who he is.”

    “Who the f knows? I mean, really, who knows how much the Japs will pay for Manhattan property these days?”

    and on and on and on. But some other people who are not Donald Trump aren’t racists so how could he be.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  82. From mid-2018…

    DOJ: 26% of Federal Prisoners Are Aliens

    https://cis.org/Huennekens/DOJ-26-Federal-Prisoners-Are-Aliens

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  83. “Nearly 3 percent of illegal immigrants in Arizona end up in state prison or jail during the course of a year four times the rate of U.S. citizens and legal residents, according to a study that uses federal reimbursements for prisons and jails to try to calculate one of the most important yet elusive statistics in the immigration debate.

    In New Jersey, illegal immigrants are incarcerated five times more often, and rates on the West Coast are triple that of legal residents and citizens, according to the study by the Federation for American Immigration Reform.”

    https://www.apnews.com/b78a2a3c7b9d28c765ca3542e4581382

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  84. Yes. I agree. And I think this accurately describes the end-justifies-the-means tribe comprised of persons who voted for Trump (a known evil to them) because they wanted to keep Hillary out of office (a specific end.)

    BuDuh (4f9117) — 7/20/2019 @ 4:17 pm

    Based on your description, I see that as people voting for the lesser of two evils, so they are voting for the person who they think has more positive qualities (or fewer negative qualities) than the other candidate. Plus I don’t think voting is evil per se. What makes it evil is voting for someone because they are bad or will do bad things.

    DRJ (15874d)

  85. Hes an admittedly flawed candidate, show me someone better.

    Narciso (c67b88)

  86. So there specific end is to have less evil in the Whitehouse by voting for certain evil nonetheless?

    Is Cheif Splitting Hairs in charge of this tribe?

    :-)

    BuDuh (4f9117)

  87. Chief

    BuDuh (4f9117)

  88. And “their.”

    I wish there was an edit feature.

    BuDuh (4f9117)

  89. In the Sophocles play, Electra was contemplating killing her mother who had already killed Electra’s father and was now planning to kill Electra’s brother as well. Not whether some Fifth Avenue clown should park his orange podex in the Oval Office.

    BTW, nobody else has wondered why Trump’s patriots left out “to Africa”?

    nk (dbc370)

  90. From mid-2018…
    DOJ: 26% of Federal Prisoners Are Aliens

    From a week ago: it’s 19.4%, comprising a total of 34,806 inmates.

    And that includes all non-citizens, including those with legal status.

    That the percentage has fluctuated so dramatically (from 26% to 19% in a year) suggests that a lot of them are people held for a short time.

    Not clear what your point is.

    According to the most recent community survey data from the Census Bureau, there were 20.5 million non-citizens in the US as of mid-2017. That means about 99.8% of them are NOT in a federal prison.

    Dave (1bb933)

  91. *20.5 M non-citizens over 18 years old

    Dave (1bb933)

  92. In the Sophocles play, Electra was contemplating killing her mother who had already killed Electra’s father and was now planning to kill Electra’s brother as well.

    You make a compelling case for a total and complete shutdown of Greeks entering the United States until our country’s representatives can figure out what the hell is going on.

    Sending the ones already here back to the totally broken and crime infested place they came from might not be such a bad idea either…

    Dave (1bb933)

  93. Is it splitting hairs to see a difference between:

    1. Voting for Candidate A because you think s/he will support more policies you believe in than Candidate B, and

    2. Voting for Candidate A because you think s/he will do more to hurt your opponents than Candidate B?

    DRJ (15874d)

  94. Is Greek-American joke. I tell now:
    — What is a DP*?
    — Is someone who came to America five years after you did.

    *Pejorative term for immigrant, from “displaced person”, now archaic.

    nk (dbc370)

  95. Which comment did I miss or missread that was making your point at 5:52, DRJ?

    My original comment pointed out that Dana defined a group that fit your description of a quality of a tribe.

    BuDuh (4f9117)

  96. Going back to this Trumpian verbiage

    When somebody goes out and says the horrible things about our country, the people of our country, that are anti-Semitic, who hate everybody, who speak with scorn and hate,

    Now really, DJT criticizing anyone else for atque illi loqui cum odio is truly vocant in ollam nigri ollae

    But from the day he announced his candidacy, he’s indulged repeatedly and constantly in nativist bigotry. It’s not really racism, but rather fear and hatred of “others”.

    Kishnevi (704a68)

  97. He’s your average 70+ year old man.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  98. Buduh,

    My “tribe” analogy is based on the idea that sometimes people care more about their tribe than about morality. Voting doesn’t mean they are part of a tribe. Voting for an immoral reason does that.

    DRJ (15874d)

  99. …sometimes people care more about their tribe(NeverHillary) than about morality (voting for a corrupt, dishonest, racist, bigot, womanizing, xenophobe, etc Trump)

    BuDuh (4f9117)

  100. BuDuh (4f9117) — 7/20/2019 @ 9:31 pm

    Choosing to have your parent put to death rather than your child (if confronted with that horrible choice) does not make you member of any “anti-parent tribe”.

    It makes you someone forced to choose the lesser of two evils, recognizing that neither choice has any redeeming qualities on its own. Either choice will be regretted, but one will be regretted less.

    Trump cultists, on the other hand, see the opportunity to vote for a morally degenerate bigot as a positive good.

    Dave (1bb933)

  101. Well, I already gave one reason why I don’t believe the “lesser of two evils” tripe the Trumpkins are peddling: Whether Hillary’s wrinkled old ass or Trump’s wrinkled old ass sits in the Oval Office is not important enough to get your hand dirty voting for one over the other.

    The other reason is that once the Trumpkins elected Trump, they did not hold him to his promise (and he did promise!) to change. They not only let him go on being the same old scum-bucket, they cheered him for it, they cheered him on, and they want him just the same old scum-bucket he’s always been for a second term.

    No, Bored Lawyer said it yesterday. Trump is the Trumpkins’ middle finger to the world, the middle finger of low IQ stone losers with no other recourse.

    nk (dbc370)

  102. would you rather had clinton if so blame jill stein she was the difference in michigan, pennsylvania and wisconsin.

    lany (f3278a)

  103. Do we have to be gaslighted all the time.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1152747469844783104

    Narciso (c67b88)

  104. I think you know the answer to that, narciso… what constitutes the Left has spread and their slime has only grown nastier…

    “Flashback 2001. City Journal reports:
    Today’s liberal left discovers racism not just behind opposition to racial preferences but behind most conservative ideas and policy recommendations. When the Newt Gingrich-led Republicans wanted to cut taxes and pursue welfare reform in the mid-nineties, the New York Times excoriated Gingrich for his “race-based, anger-charged politics” and compared him to southern segregationist George Wallace. Harlem’s Democratic congressman Charles Rangel attacked Republican tax cuts as pure race hatred. “It’s not ‘spic’ or ‘n*gger’ anymore,” Rangel growled. “They say, ‘Let’s cut taxes.’ ” More recently, speaking on ABC’s This Week, feminist and high-paid Gore consultant Naomi Wolf casually accused George W. Bush’s advisors—by whom she meant City Journal’s editor—of being “racist.” Wolf’s evidence? The truthful observation that some members of the underclass, because of their dysfunctional worldview, ignore the economic opportunities blossoming all around them.”

    https://nalert.blogspot.com/2019/07/flashback-2001-before-donald-trump-left.html

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  105. Racist, bigoted, tools of oppression sons of b*tches!

    https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=13471

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  106. it’s what r Emmett tyrell called the kultursmog, they create these phantasms out of thin air, like mysterio’s holographic projections, ngo was beat into unconsciousness, buzzfeed and the human rights fund ‘cover with a pillow’ Zimmerman was fighting for his life, abc edits the police footage, (the reporter responsible gutman, then brought pillows to san Bernardino)

    narciso (d1f714)

  107. A link, but it is on topic:

    ‘Send her back!” they chanted, meaning Representative Ilhan Omar, the Somalia-born Jew-hating weirdo elected to Congress by the ghastly fruitcakes who run things in Minneapolis. President Donald J. Trump, elected president by the ghastly nut cutlets who run things in much of the rest of the country, basked in the chant, glowing like a gopher sauntering forth from Chernobyl — he was, in effect, hearing his own daft words shouted back at him ecstatically, and he has a real weakness for that sort of thing.

    Much has been made about whether the episode and Trump’s words inspiring it were racist; my own view is that Donald Trump is incapable of being a racist in the traditional sense of that word, because racism is derived from a perverted and misapplied sense of loyalty, a sentiment from which President Trump is manifestly immune. What is more interesting — and more troubling — is what the exchange says about our eroding sense of citizenship.

    The American Revolution was the process by which our Founding Fathers elevated themselves from subjects to citizens, and citizenship is the foundation of the American identity. You can become an American because you can become a citizen — you can move to Poland or China, but you cannot become Polish or Chinese, no matter how long you live there, no matter how the state classifies you, no matter how well you learn the language, even if you make a really mean bigos or niu za tang. America is not an idea or a collection of documents, but neither is it a closed ethnolinguistic set. It is a nation in which relations among the people and between the individual and the state are defined by the terms of citizenship.

    Citizenship is a precious thing. To be a citizen is more dignified and more honorable than to be a subject. When the Romans lost their republic and slid into empire, it was not democracy they were losing — they never suffered from that particular superstition — but their status as citizens. There were things the Roman state could not do to a Roman citizen — crucifixion, for example. The state had to respect the citizen because the citizen was the building block out of which the republic was built. The conversion of the Roman republic into an empire under god-emperors was a catastrophe for the Roman citizen — not only politically but also culturally and spiritually and, eventually, economically. God-emperors are not traditionally real big on property rights and due process.

    The idea that Ilhan Omar could — even as a matter of mass-dunderhead rhetoric — be treated as a non-citizen because the president and his admirers do not like her politics (which are quite unlikeable) does violence to the idea of citizenship per se. In that much, it is fundamentally and literally un-American.

    I not only agree, I whole-heartedly approve.

    DRJ (15874d)

  108. There is more at the link — specifically, about how Obama was worse than Trump — so Trump folks won’t hate it all.

    DRJ (15874d)

  109. Williamson couldn’t have been more right about Obama wrongly and unpatriotically targeting an American citizen for death, without due process or even an indictment.

    Paul Montagu (dbd3cc)

  110. Given all the people bum-rushing the border, it appears Omar did, at least, follow the rules on the path to citizenship. If an investigation proves otherwise. So she is a citizen.

    It is important that citizenship be cherished and safeguarded by clear-thinking Americans, given its apparent unimportance to Democrats and their operatives in the media and popular culture.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  111. Should’ve read “If an investigation proves otherwise, it should be dealt with at that time.”

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  112. But getting to the heart of the matter…

    “The French movie ‘Hiroshima Mon Amour’ is based on human memory and forgetfulness as recounted by two lovers. The tale of the congresswoman who calls herself Ilhan Omar is a tale of an anti-Semite bred-in-the-bone corruptocrat whose rise in political power rests very largely on complicity by the media’s airbrushing of her history because they thought this physically attractive African Moslem “refugee” was just the ticket to defeat Donald Trump. The media counts on our forgetfulness and ignorance.

    Hard work by independent media, however, has exposed her and her media apologists and the Democrats have little choice: Condemn her and remove her from her committee assignments or suffer the consequences. Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s repeated defense of her, (doubtless for fear of being targeted by the leftist nutjobs in her ranks) has placed her party’s continued majority in serious jeopardy.”

    https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2019/07/mogadishu_mon_amour.html

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  113. DRJ (15874d) — 7/21/2019 @ 9:21 am
    Williamson: “Maybe it was a mistake to let her into the club — I am open to the argument that we should be far choosier about whom we offer the honor and dignity of American citizenship. I might even ask some pointed political questions: Are you a Communist? Are you a Jew-hating weirdo? But we didn’t do that.”

    Yes, we did, and do. Maybe not specifically “Jew-hating weirdo”.

    https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/communist-membership-affects-eligibility-naturalized-us-citizenship.html

    Munroe (0b2761)

  114. actually they removed that question, before she entered the state, I don’t know exactly which would be the said barre faction, she belonged to, in cuba the orthodoxo was the traditional party, and the autenticos the outside liberal one,

    narciso (d1f714)

  115. Can you explain your point, Munroe? I interpreted that part of Williamson’s article as our government did not or could not vet Ilahn Omar, not that the government wasn’t allowed to vet her. I agree we can and should screen immigrants for subversive or anti-American beliefs but Omar came here at 12 and was naturalized at 15. Her beliefs probably developed after that, when she was a citizen, don’t you think?

    DRJ (15874d)

  116. would you rather had clinton if so blame jill stein she was the difference in michigan, pennsylvania and wisconsin.

    Nah, blame the 47% that actually voted for the moron, not the 1% that voted for the other Russian stooge. Or blame the idiots who voted for Trump in the primary so that he was an option that made a vote “of evils” a requirement, because they had more than a dozen other, better, choices. I know he certainly wasn’t my choice in the primary, because he’s a moron, and wasn’t in the general because he was still a moron. 2020 will be 3rd time most Republican’s will have had a choice between evils thy name is Trump, and it seems will be the 3rd time most chose evil.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  117. “Trump is the Trumpkins’ middle finger to the world, the middle finger of low IQ stone losers with no other recourse.”

    Yes, the so-called “Deplorables”…

    We now return you to your moral panic…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  118. DRJ (15874d) — 7/21/2019 @ 10:49 am

    It didn’t sound like Williamson knew what he was talking about. That was my point.

    Munroe (0b2761)

  119. Williamson said, “I might even ask …” not ” The law asks … ” so, to me, that is Williamson talking about what ought to be, not what is. Trump does that, too. I am glad you agree it should be pointed out when someone does that.

    DRJ (15874d)

  120. Of course, they could, they have no desire to do so, like with the Syrian that tried to bomb the church in north Philadelphia, or the Kazakh sniper who was a big shot with Islamic State,

    narciso (d1f714)

  121. On This Week, George Stephanapolous pushed Congressman Elijah Cummings, the chair of the House Oversight Committee into using the word racist by pointdly asking him if he would

    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/week-transcript-21-19-rep-elijah-cummings-mercedes/story?id=64462439

    And what it does when Trump does these things, when the president does these things, it brings up the same feelings that I had over 50 some years ago and it’s very, very painful. It’s extremely divisive and I just don’t think that this is becoming of the president of the United States of America, the leader of the entire world.

    We can do better than that and I – and I don’t care what anybody says. And I think our Republican friends have to stand up and say not that – just that it might be inappropriate, no, you got to go further than that and say Mr. President, you’re absolutely wrong.

    …STEPHANOPOULOS: Do you believe President Trump is a racist?

    CUMMINGS: I believe he is — yes, no doubt about it. And — and I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt, but I got to tell you, George — let me tell you, I get — when I think about what he said to these young ladies who are merely trying to bring excellence to government and trying to make sure that generations yet unborn have an opportunity to experience a true democracy, when I hear those things it takes me back, like I said. And — and — and I can still remember bleeding from my forehead when people were throwing bottles — and these were adults, throwing bottles and saying go home [racial slur].

    And — and — and it just — and again, there’s the — he — the president has to set the tone. He needs to be a role model. I would say to the president right now — right now, Mr. President, we want you to be a role model, we want somebody in that White House who our children can be proud of, who are children can emulate, who our children will look up to, and that is not the kind of example that you’re setting, and I’m telling you, Mr. President, you and we, our nation is better than that. …

    … You’ll never hear me — you’ll rarely hear me say the word racist. You — you will never hear me call somebody a liar, for example. And the reason why I don’t is that — is I know how people take things. They then — they get so caught up in the tone or in the language that they don’t even hear the message. And I want to be effective in —

    STEPHANOPOULOS: But you did just say that President Trump is a racist.

    CUMMINGS: Oh, I — that’s — my point is, that’s — and that’s very — what I’m trying to point out to you is that’s very significant.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)


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