Patterico's Pontifications

7/17/2019

Unsurprising: Increased Republican Support For Trump After Incendiary Tweets

Filed under: General — Dana @ 7:13 am



[guest post by Dana]

If you’re surprised by this, then you haven’t been paying close attention these past two years. When President Trump taps into an issue that has been simmering under the surface of his loyalist base, and then launches an attack on the focus of their frustration, it increases his popularity:

The national survey, conducted on Monday and Tuesday after Trump told the lawmakers they should “go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came,” showed his net approval among members of his Republican Party rose by 5 percentage points to 72%, compared with a similar poll that ran last week.

Among independents, about three out of 10 said they approved of Trump, down from four out of 10 a week ago. His net approval – the percentage who approve minus the percentage who disapprove – dropped by 2 points among Democrats in the poll.

Trump’s overall approval remained unchanged over the past week. According to the poll, 41% of the U.S. public said they approved of his performance in office, while 55% disapproved.

Comparatively speaking:

The public response to Trump’s statements appeared to be a little better for him than in 2017, after the president said there were “very fine people” on both sides of a deadly white nationalist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia.

In that instance, Trump’s net approval dropped by about 10 points a week after the Charlottesville rally.

[Ed. Base support for Trump dropped 3% after his Charlottesville comments. For those who voted for Trump in 2016, 80 percent still supported him. ]

Note: While Democrats (and some Republicans) view the president’s tweets as racist, consider this analysis of perception and interpretation:

“To Republicans, Trump is simply saying: ‘Hey, if you don’t like America, you can leave,” Hutchings said. “That is not at all controversial. If you already support Trump, then it’s very easy to interpret his comments that way.”

Given the increase in support after his comments, it’s a reasonable to believe that President Trump is “doing exactly what Republicans want him to do,” by “taking on groups that they oppose.”

Additionally, while Trump lobbied the GOP for a unified front before the Democratic-led House vote to condemn his remarks, GOP members avoided the president’s political fury by voting against the House resolution yesterday. Only four members crossed party lines to vote with the Democrats:

Two days after Trump tweeted that four Democratic freshmen should “go back” to their home countries — though all are citizens and three were born in the U.S.A. — Democrats muscled the resolution through the chamber by 240-187 over near-solid GOP opposition.

At the end of the day, President Trump is revealing his strategy for 2020, and so far, it resembles 2016:

For all the tumult and anger that President Trump’s verbal attacks on four minority lawmakers have caused, he has been clear about his political motives: Drive a wedge through the country that forces each side to its corner.

Trump is betting he can repeat the formula that won him election in 2016, widening the nation’s racial, cultural and ideological divides to eke out victory with a strong showing among older conservative white voters.

(Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.)

–Dana

117 Responses to “Unsurprising: Increased Republican Support For Trump After Incendiary Tweets”

  1. Good morning.

    Dana (bb0678)

  2. Can we agree yet that Trump has inadvertently united the Democrats by his lack of restraint on Twitter?

    Dana (bb0678)

  3. Trump can’t get his approval ratings above the mid-40s, so he’ll need the support of independents if he wants to win. Unfortunately for Trump, independents didn’t cotton to his racist tweets.
    In this poll, over two-thirds of Americans found Trump’s racist tweets “offensive”, and only 57% of Republicans gave his racist tweets a thumbs up. Importantly, among independent voters, that sizable block whom Trump will need in 2020, Trump’s racist tweets were “un-American” by a 2-1 margin.

    Paul Montagu (fc91e5)

  4. Because we care about substance over form, the fedayeen mean to demolish the system, and replace in the guise of the regimes they have expressed support for Chavez venezuela the plo

    Narciso (09b0bf)

  5. Trump’s tweets were a step-on-the-rake moment but if the Dems are going to unite around calling everyone supporting border enforcement a Nazi and encouraging violent attacks against same then it’s best to get it out in the open.

    “The other day, The Babylon Bee joked that Trump’s reelection campaign will “simply air unedited footage of Democrats talking”….

    …..And it appears that’s EXACTLY what will happen. Here’s the RNC’s latest ad on the Squad using their exact words (or in the case of the Antifa terror attack on an ICE facility in Tacoma, WA, their silence) against them. Check it out:

    https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2019/07/17/new-rnc-ad-uses-the-squads-own-words-against-them-and-its-brutal/

    harkin (b0f43e)

  6. 3 – wow four “racist tweets” in one comment.

    You’re certainly on-message.

    harkin (b0f43e)

  7. Paul,

    You and I may think that he needs to expand his base and grab Independents, but bizarrely, he doesn’t think so:

    President Donald Trump said in a recent interview with TIME Magazine that he believes his core base of supporters is so solid, he doesn’t think he needs to reach out to swing voters at all in 2020.

    “I think my base is so strong, I’m not sure that I have to do that,” he told TIME when asked if his campaign had a strategy in place to win over Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents, including people who voted for Democrats in last year’s congressional midterm elections.

    Dana (bb0678)

  8. #2 Can we agree yet that Trump has inadvertently united the Democrats by his lack of restraint on Twitter?

    Dana (bb0678) — 7/17/2019 @ 7:18 am

    Yup.

    But not in a good way.

    Democrats have had opportunities to separate themselves a bit from the controversial Squad, but in the Democrats zeal to oppose anything&everything about Trump (aka… OrangeManBadz!) they’re essentially buying-in every controversial aspect of the Squad.

    The RNC/Trump will hang the albatross that is the Squad over Democrat’s head in the next election.

    I think what we’re witnessing is Trump/RNC/supports taking this lemon (Trump’s tweets) and making lemonaide.

    This is raw political power we’re witnessing here…

    whembly (fd57f6)

  9. Pressley supports disrespect for the flag, Medicare for all, and dismantlement of ice, presumably not like the Dutch folksinger, buy who knows.

    6/10 Mexicans dont want the migrants in their country.

    Narciso (09b0bf)

  10. 2… that remains to be seen, but they may’ve been united for a few days…

    Colonel Haiku (5243a2)

  11. They’ll have “solidarity” for a few days, maybe a week.

    Colonel Haiku (5243a2)

  12. You’re certainly on-message.

    Thank you. Oh, and did I mention that Trump’s tweets were racist?
    Dana, I agree. Trump is convinced that he can be as outrageous as he wants and none of his base will slough off, and I think he’s also convinced that he can beat any of the Dem candidates, even though the head-to-heads say otherwise.

    Paul Montagu (fc91e5)

  13. Republicans will cntinue to sign on to Trump’s racist crud, his out in full view corruption and nationalist/protectionist nonsense until it starts losing them elections, and really, it would need a major thrashing before GOP politicians swear off this garbage.

    Independents will come to this conclusion. And conservatism will take a major hit in 2020 as a result. I am not thrilled by that — the Democrats have their own liberty-hating madness going on right now, and their economics is for the birdies. But a racist right, beyond being just wrong and evil, isn’t going to be able to govern a pluralistic country, without trying to substantially curtail liberty for the people they don’t like. So the choices for a 2nd Trump administration is chaos, or attempted authoritarianism.

    So, sorry. This GOP has to lose.

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  14. Good job, Kellyanne!

    Yes, that’s right! Kellyanne. Like Trump would have the compos mentis to figure something like this himself. Snort!

    nk (dbc370)

  15. Trump didn’t mention race when he tweeted about the Jihad Squad. And does anyone seriously think THIS media and the Democrats wouldn’t be calling Trump – or any other Republican president – a racist, etc., absent this kerfuffle?

    Colonel Haiku (5243a2)

  16. If you hear dog whistles, you just might be the dog.

    Colonel Haiku (5243a2)

  17. Haiku:

    This tweety nonsense sounds like a plot for an early Archie Bunker episode, where Archie complains about “those people” and he wonders “why don’t they just get out if they don’t like it”.

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  18. As harkin pointed out with the RNC ad, the Jihad Squad’s own words will hang them er, show them for what they are

    Colonel Haiku (5243a2)

  19. Trump got the Dems to stand shoulder to shoulder with anti Semitic, socialist, race baiting clowns.

    Frank (90a91c)

  20. In a Gallup poll released last month, only 27% of respondents self-identified as Democrat, and 26% self-identified as Republican. Both are record lows.

    https://reason.com/2019/07/16/the-last-few-days-exemplify-why-im-libertarian-and-why-you-should-be-too/

    So partisan politics is a dead end. Divide and conquer doesn’t work anymore. Neither party can win without the votes of Independents, many of whom are swing voters.

    If the Democrats nominate a moderate centrist, which is unlikely but possible, he or she will win. If they nominate a radical socialist, he or she will lose.

    However, Trump is playing a dangerous game here. 72% approval from 26% of the electorate is not much of a margin for victory. His actual base, or cult if you will, is small. Any credible contender will crush him in the election.

    As for third parties, the Libertarian is the only one on the ballot in all fifty states. But even they don’t want Amash on the ticket.

    https://reason.com/2019/07/15/libertarian-presidential-candidates-prefer-each-other-over-justin-amash/

    Not that they have any chance of election, only of disruption. But, hey, vote your conscience, go with your principles. That’s what I say.

    I won’t be voting for Trump or any Republican who supports him. He is a total fraud and a disgrace, so too is the party that welcomes him.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  21. the Jihad Squad’s bald-faced lies about US immigration and detention policies are beneath contempt, but there’s so much more.

    Colonel Haiku (5243a2)

  22. 17… and yet the Jihad Squad’s own verbiage is right out of the terlet…

    Colonel Haiku (5243a2)

  23. they like to twiddle with a straight razor, one wishes he wasn’t the only one out there, of course murkowski will sell you down the river, and have you pay the freight, hurd didn’t learn that his road trip with beto, didn’t prevent a deplatforming on his subject of expertise,

    narciso (d1f714)

  24. Can we agree that Trump’s tweets were incendiary…not because they were racist (everyone keeps bastardizing this word)… but, because there were spoken from a nativist/nationalistic view/context?

    whembly (51f28e)

  25. Hurd is what the CBC was in the mid 1980s ala William Gray, Augustus Hawkins, some of the old NYC pols like Percy Sutton. Key difference is he has to run and win like a San Antonio mayoral candidate.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  26. they’re incendiary, because the dems don’t want to address what they support, which is islamist terrorism, amnesty, abortion on demand, and the demolition of the health care system,

    narciso (d1f714)

  27. #27 — They are incendiary because Trump implicitly questions their citizenship and their right to be in this country. Sort of like he did with Obama.

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  28. Like Trump would have the compos mentis to figure something like this himself. Snort!

    Heh.

    Dana (bb0678)

  29. #28 #27 — They are incendiary because Trump implicitly questions their citizenship and their right to be in this country. Sort of like he did with Obama.

    Appalled (d07ae6) — 7/17/2019 @ 8:24 am

    I think you’re reading too much into that.

    But, Trump opens himself up with these criticisms, so he’s not blameless here.

    whembly (51f28e)

  30. Great post.

    DRJ (15874d)

  31. Just saw that prosecutors dropped investigation on whether Trump violated campaign finance laws…

    Was that the Cohen payoff connections?

    whembly (51f28e)

  32. yes, that was what we were assured was going to be the end, it’s like a cliffhanger, tune in tomorrow,

    narciso (d1f714)

  33. meanwhile gov rosello, discovers the Hillary email trick doesn’t work for him, the whole uproar, reminds of the scene in airplane, where the steward provokes a brawl, when she tells the passengers they are out of coffee,

    narciso (d1f714)

  34. Trump got the Dems to stand shoulder to shoulder with anti Semitic, socialist, race baiting clowns.

    … and Republicans to stand shoulder to shoulder with a misogynist, fascist, race baiting clown.

    Great success!

    Dave (1bb933)

  35. Trump is convinced that he can be as outrageous as he wants and none of his base will slough off

    We all know that Trump believes he never does anything particularly wrong, because he has told us so.

    We know that he expects unconditional, personal loyalty from his base, because he has boasted about it.

    His base has mostly adopted his own ethical code: Whatever is good for Donald Trump is good. Whatever throws any shade on Donald Trump is bad and anti-American.

    They fervently defend him when he does what they condemn in others – and that includes calling the United States a hellhole, an international joke, and likens it to a Third World country.

    Trump and his enablers and cultists have firmly stamped the GOP and “conservatism” with the image of gross hypocrisy and dishonesty, ugliness and amorality. They think that pointing to the sins of the Democrats justifies it all, but millions of independents (and the subset of non-cultist Republicans) see it otherwise.

    Radegunda (f133c3)

  36. “because the dems don’t want to address what they support, which is islamist terrorism”

    https://twitter.com/TheOnion/status/1151215696602435586

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  37. Radegunda (f133c3) — 7/17/2019 @ 8:53 am

    Exactly!

    Dave (1bb933)

  38. “They are incendiary because Trump implicitly questions their citizenship and their right to be in this country.”
    Appalled (d07ae6) — 7/17/2019 @ 8:24 am

    No, it’s incendiary because he questions why someone would want to turn the U.S. into Somalia when there’s already a country called Somalia, and those that are asked that question are uncomfortable with answering it honestly. But, a response of “racist!” wins with a lot of people.

    Munroe (0b2761)

  39. By base you mean the entire Republican party, right?

    NJRob (4d595c)

  40. Watch how the media lines up, why it’s as if they are in cahoots with the DNC!

    Journalists should maintain a professional distance from the characterizations provided by politicians and political activist types.

    Colonel Haiku (5243a2)

  41. Trump is betting he can repeat the formula that won him election in 2016, widening the nation’s racial, cultural and ideological divides to eke out victory with a strong showing among older conservative white voters.

    Disgusting lie and deliberately trying to twist reality to divide people by race. This is clearly an issue where Marxists want to destroy our nation as they have always tried to do and others who want to keep the nation as the shining city on the hill.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  42. Munroe —

    Where did Ilhan Omar (or any of the other Squad members) say she wanted to change the US into Somalia? if she didn’t exactly say it — tell us, preferably spcifically, what gives you the basis of saying she wants that?

    You’ve made a pretty specific charge. I am curious to see what you have that backs that up.

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  43. “and Republicans to stand shoulder to shoulder with a misogynist, fascist, race baiting clown.”

    and Super-Anklebiters continue to lash out in cahoots with leftwing media (BIRM) and Democrats, repeating their talking points verbatim…

    Colonel Haiku (5243a2)

  44. Same story, different day.

    The GOP’s self-flagellation section is mortified at something.

    Back in the world, queer poetry departments swell in size on student loans that cannot be repaid. Those voters will be in thrall to a party that proposes debt relief. Republicans, having ignored the problem for years while being mortified at their own people, will predictably oppose debt relief for the problem they helped sire.

    State employee unions have unsustainable pensions; our aircraft carriers are too big; the Democratic party is tipping into super-Keynesianism and anti Americanism.

    But hey! The GOP self abasement division and Never-Trumpers will prove again why they marginalized themselves from 1988 to now. (Altogether: “We’re crass! He is, but not us!”)

    They’ll spend the week apologizing to people who reject their apologies, demean their beliefs (whatever they might be), and call them far worse.

    Harcourt Fenton Mudd (6b1442)

  45. Back in the world, queer poetry departments swell in size on student loans that cannot be repaid. Those voters will be in thrall to a party that proposes debt relief. Republicans, having ignored the problem for years while being mortified at their own people, will predictably oppose debt relief for the problem they helped sire.

    State employee unions have unsustainable pensions; our aircraft carriers are too big; the Democratic party is tipping into super-Keynesianism and anti Americanism.

    Granted! What has the orange done about these things?

    nk (dbc370)

  46. Rasmussen shows 50% but carry on,

    Narciso (09b0bf)

  47. Back in the world, queer poetry departments swell in size on student loans that cannot be repaid. Those voters will be in thrall to a party that proposes debt relief. Republicans, having ignored the problem for years while being mortified at their own people, will predictably oppose debt relief for the problem they helped sire.

    State employee unions have unsustainable pensions; our aircraft carriers are too big; the Democratic party is tipping into super-Keynesianism and anti Americanism.

    If you’re dissatisfied with America as it is, you need to leave the country instead of criticizing it.

    Especially (and I’m not saying you do or you don’t) if you have dark-colored skin.

    Dave (1bb933)

  48. Inspied by #46…

    “Same story, different day.”

    People in the GOP feel vaguely distressed by Trump. They long for the day when they might actually say something about it, or talk sternly to a New York Times reporter off the record, or even, (quelle horreur), tweet a Biblical verse.

    They do nothing. But people blame them for terminal never-Trumpism and self-abasement anyway, and even post screeds in National Greatness or blog comment sections about them.

    They read them. Smile sadly. If only they had the courage to actually do anything like what they are accused of. But…no. They have to beware of what the President might tweet, or what Tucker might say. So

    “They’ll spend the week apologizing to people who reject their apologies, demean their beliefs (whatever they might be), and call them far worse.”

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  49. We’re going to be hearing about the ‘racist tweets’ from now until at least the election, it’s wrong but it’s jyst how they roll.

    “Keith Woods, NPR’s vice president for newsroom training and diversity, argues that journalists should not be using the term “racist” to describe the president’s tweets. ”

    “His words mirror those of avowed racists and xenophobes that date back to the birth of this country. Was that moral judgment, my last sentence? I would argue no. I’d call it context, and it doesn’t require my opinion, just a basic understanding of history. That’s an alternative to labels: Report. Quote people. Cite sources. Add context. Leave the moral labeling to the people affected; to the opinion writers, the editorial writers, the preachers and philosophers; and to the public we serve.

    We just have to do journalism.

    https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2019/07/17/413380545/opinion-report-on-racism-but-ditch-the-labels?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20190717
    __
    There’s still someone at NPR who gets it.
    _

    harkin (b0f43e)

  50. I mean who’d think what he said was racist. Oh, wait federal law does. And one the specific example…

    Examples of potentially unlawful conduct include insults, taunting, or ethnic epithets, such as making fun of a person’s foreign accent or comments like, “Go back to where you came from.”

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  51. “Rasmussen”

    lol

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  52. Interesting link, Herr Oberschlafendorfer. Not that it has anything to do with Trump’s tweets. The last paragraph which shows the legal under which employers of illegals operate.

    nk (dbc370)

  53. legal *burden* or legal *cover*, your choice.

    nk (dbc370)

  54. Granted! What has the orange done about these things?

    So what have you done for me lately? Perhaps, just perhaps, if he wasn’t distracted by all of this nonsense he might, just maybe, be able to get to that. Just a thought. I could be wrong. But perhaps if the NeverTrump crowd would stop shooting at him while at the same time shooting themselves in the foot, more things could get done. I mean, when you consider that all previous GOP Presidents made promises to do many of the things he has actually ACCOMPLISHED (looking at embassy in Jerusalem as the simplest example), perhaps he should be granted a little leeway on the other things.

    If you want to complain about the man, criticize him at every turn, fine. But don’t then turn around and whine because he has “failed” in two years to solve the debt problem (or whatever happens to be starching your shorts today) that no one in the GOP has EVER taken seriously. Many speak of NeverTrumper’s betrayal of Trump but to me what is much, much worse is how the GOPe usurped the Tea Party while continuing to suck on the government t. Had they not tossed aside the Tea Party, perhaps they could be taken a little more seriously about their current “concerns”.

    PTw (e093e4)

  55. The Four Horsewomens of teh Acrapofflips…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  56. ‘Incendiary tweets…’

    “Base”-icks:

    Douse w/gas, strike match, ignite base, feel the ‘burn.’

    “I love it when a plan comes together.” – Hannibal Smith [George Peppard]’The A-Team’ NBC TV 1983-87

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  57. 25. whembly (51f28e) — 7/17/2019 @ 8:18 am

    25.Can we agree that Trump’s tweets were incendiary…not because they were racist (everyone keeps bastardizing this word)… but, because there were spoken from a nativist/nationalistic view/context?

    That;s more or less waht I woild say, but Nancy Pelosi didn’t want to. Everybody now agrees that racism is wrong – but not so much the other thing. The Democratic consultants think some people who voted for Barack Obama and Donald Trump don’t think that’s bad.

    So there we are.

    Sammy Finkelman (0cf810)

  58. PTw,

    I think you are confused about the people here, plus do you really think Presidents cannot be effective if they are criticized?

    DRJ (3a8a8a)

  59. I consider the use of “white privilege” as racist and demeaning. So when is the government going to add it to the list.

    bud (b48f3e)

  60. “You’ve made a pretty specific charge. I am curious to see what you have that backs that up.”
    Appalled (d07ae6) — 7/17/2019 @ 9:41 am

    Somalia was an example — an obvious one.

    No, I don’t have a link where she’s quoted as saying “I want the U.S. to become like Somalia”, but nor has she ever said specifically “I don’t like Jewish people”. Therefore, what?

    Let me put it this way. If I lived in CountryX and was significantly unhappy with it (not unhappy at the margins, but fundamentally), and there was a CountryZ that was better, I would leave. That’s not a hypothetical, as our immigrant ancestors can attest — people who made exactly that decision.

    If there is no CountryZ — a better country — I would at least acknowledge that, and explain why I believe that, while griping about CountryX.

    She has done none of that. Why do you think that is?

    Munroe (237eb2)

  61. I looked, and there before me was a white horse. Its rider held a loudspeaker and she was given a crown, and she rode out as a yapper bent on the limelight… Then another horse came out, a fiery red one. Its rider was given power to take peace from the earth and to make men slay each other. To her was given a hijab. Before me was a black horse. Its rider was holding a pair of jackboots in her hand. Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, ‘For those who choose to work, a living wage. And to those who choose not to work, a living wage and do not damage the hash oil or the wine!’… I looked and there before me stood a pale horse. Its rider was named Tilapia, and Hamas was following close behind her…. They were given power over both coasts of the US to kill by sloth, famine, and plague and by the wild rats of the earth.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  62. Prose is better than free verse,corinello now as little Ricky rosello is finding out, dont try this at home,

    Narciso (09b0bf)

  63. Interesting link, Herr Oberschlafendorfer. Not that it has anything to do with Trump’s tweets. “
    _

    Its almost like they don’t expect anyone to read their links.

    Dood at NPR said it best:

    it doesn’t require my opinion, just a basic understanding of history. That’s an alternative to labels: Report. Quote people. Cite sources. Add context. Leave the moral labeling to the people affected; to the opinion writers, the editorial writers, the preachers and philosophers; and to the public we serve.

    We just have to do journalism.

    harkin (b0f43e)

  64. I think you are confused about the people here, plus do you really think Presidents cannot be effective if they are criticized?

    Eh? Confused about what?

    And do you really think Presidents cannot be effective if they are criticized is a very simplistic, if not simple minded, inference from my comment, especially in regard to the volume and the intensity of the criticisms to which I refer. When people are actively engaged in activities, be they impeachments or harassing FBI investigations based on zero, zippo, nadda, nothing, to call these things simple “criticisms” is to pretend to be living in a different universe. Cheerleading in a REAL “I hope he fails” manner, hey, it’s your right. But to join in the chorus of the “I hope he fails” and constantly calling the man an idiot, to THEN whine because he hasn’t solved, like with magic or something, one of the stickiest political issues that even the great Ronald Reagan (PBUH) could not adequately address (and he had nowhere near this degree of distraction), is chutzpah to say the least.

    PTw (e093e4)

  65. Munroe —

    Now, if I had said something like “prove Ilhan Omar had said something anti-semitic” you would have been able to come up with a multitude of links very quickly. (Hint — follow AG Conservative on Twitter). So, I will call shenanigans on that comparison.

    The issue is that you were claiming that Omar wants America to be like Somalia (and Trump busted her on it in those tweets). And that’s nonsense. Which I think you now admit.

    I have no brief for Omar, but she does claim she loves this country:

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/ilhan-omar-i-probably-love-this-country-more-than-anyone-that-is-naturally-born

    Trump, who I guess loves this country, is not afraid of agreeing with those who do not:

    https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/andrewkaczynski/trump-in-2014-american-exceptionalism-is-a-very-dangerous-te

    Trump added, “And I can tell you that there are many countries throughout the world that are extremely angry with that term American exceptionalism. Countries that are doing better than we are—far better than we are. You’re looking to get along with the world, and you say you’re exceptional? So I never particularly like the term. I think you can think it, but I’m not sure it’s something that you should necessarily be talking so much about.”

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  66. I understand you believe everything you’ve said is correct, but do you see any way you might be exaggerating or incorrect about … anything?

    DRJ (3a8a8a)

  67. 34. narciso (d1f714) — 7/17/2019 @ 8:51 am

    meanwhile gov rosello, discovers the Hillary email trick doesn’t work for him,

    He didn’t use a personal, private e-mail server! Instead he left them on Telegram.

    There never was any email in the history of email as secure as that left on clintonemail.com, anything that James Comey or anybody else says to the contrary notwithstanding. It was secure not only from hackers, but also from subpoenas. As it is, Governor Ricardo Rosselló didn’t even protect it from hackers.

    https://www.elnuevodia.com/english/english/nota/disclosedchatcontentssparkwidespreadcondemnationofpuertoricogovernor-2505328

    Following the Saturday morning leak of a 889-page private group chat between Puerto Rico governor Ricardo Rosselló and some of his closest collaborators, reactions have been swift among the island’s political class, with opposition leaders and fellow members of the New Progressive Party (NPP) almost universally condemning the contents of the explosive document and calling for Rosselló’s resignation or “re-evaluation” of his position as governor.

    The document — which details conversations made through the messaging app Telegram from late 2018 to January 20 of this year — is filled with profanity-laced, misogynistic, homophobic, and sexual comments from Rosselló and other members of the group attacking opposition leaders, fellow party members, journalists and activist groups. The conversation also reveals efforts to manipulate public perception of the administration through public polls and a so-called “troll network” on social media.

    THEY EVEN JOKED ABOUT KILLING A POLITICAL OPPONENT.

    But if he can’t copy Hillary Clinton, he can copy Virginia Governor Ralph Northum and just refuse to resign.

    https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Northam-Holds-First-Listening-Session-in-Northern-Va-Since-Blackface-Controversy-512811261.html

    While members of the same Puerto Rican political party may affiliate with different political parties, Ricardo Rosselló iis registered nationally as a Democrat, and the logo of his party is blue. It split off many yeasr ago from the Statehood party which used to be considered Republican.

    The blue was originally because of the United Nationa flag, and now they say the U.S flag and it got bluer in 2014. It features a blue palm tree.

    Sammy Finkelman (0cf810)

  68. As for being confused about people, please name those here who consider themselves NeverTrump.

    DRJ (3a8a8a)

  69. Let me put it this way. If I lived in CountryX and was significantly unhappy with it (not unhappy at the margins, but fundamentally), and there was a CountryZ that was better, I would leave. That’s not a hypothetical, as our immigrant ancestors can attest — people who made exactly that decision.

    If there is no CountryZ — a better country — I would at least acknowledge that, and explain why I believe that, while griping about CountryX.

    She has done none of that. Why do you think that is?

    Do you feel compelled to preface every complaint about things that bother you with “This is the greatest country in the world, but …”? Having read your comments for quite a while, I don’t recall your doing that very often, if ever (and neither do I, for that matter).

    In any case, Omar said this two days ago:

    “Something that I get criticized for all the time … it is that I am anti-American because I criticize the United States, And, I believe as an immigrant, I probably love this country more than anyone that is naturally born.”

    She did go on to mix criticism with praise:

    “And [it’s] because I am ashamed of it continuing to live in its hypocrisy that I work so hard to make sure that others who’ve [said] that like ‘be American — why don’t you be more like an American,’ can continue to say that. Because it used to be a very positive thing. We export American exceptionalism … but we don’t live those values here, so that hypocrisy is one that I’m bothered by. I want America the great to be America the great.”

    If someone’s ideas are bad, and plenty of hers are, then criticize the ideas. Attacking the person on the basis of their ethnicity and/or the country they or their forbears came from is un-American and wrong.

    Dave (1bb933)

  70. As for being confused about people, please name those here who consider themselves NeverTrump.

    *raises hand helpfully*

    Dave (1bb933)

  71. 21. Gawain’s Ghost (b25cd1) — 7/17/2019 @ 8:11 am

    So partisan politics is a dead end. Divide and conquer doesn’t work anymore. Neither party can win without the votes of Independents, many of whom are swing voters.

    Each party is counting on making the other party, or the other party’s presidential nominee, unacceptable to such voters, and both may succeed.

    There could be an opening here for a good, or at least half decent, third party presidential candidate. He must be a billionaire to get some credibility, and get on the ballot, or at least his vice presdential running mate must be) but the billionaire may prefer one party to the other. so so far, it’s not happening.

    Sammy Finkelman (0cf810)

  72. Republican party is now party of trump. The populists have driven out the libertarian free trade conservatives neo-conartists multi-nationalists and their donors who were never more then 15% of the party but controlled the party by financing republican candidates. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out. Never trumpers when are you going to get the message the republican party doesn’t want you GET OUT!

    lany (288dba)

  73. Dave,

    Thanks. I don’t care who supports Trump and who is NeverTrump so I don’t know how to categorize people here (and don’t see the point anyway). I think Patterico has said that while he detests Trump, he is not NeverTrump. I don’t know about anyone else.

    DRJ (3a8a8a)

  74. Does it matter? I thought the arguments are what matter.

    DRJ (3a8a8a)

  75. “I have no brief for Omar, but she does claim she loves this country“
    Appalled (d07ae6) — 7/17/2019 @ 12:29 pm

    Rather thin gruel, don’t you think? She doesn’t say why. A lack of anything specific seems to satisfy you. What do you think she loves about this country? Is that clear to you, or do you accept it at face value?

    She also claims to be at one with Jewish allies on the whole anti-semitism thing, where someone said something.

    “Anti-Semitism is real and I am grateful for Jewish allies and colleagues who are educating me on the painful history of anti-Semitic tropes. My intention is never to offend my constituents or Jewish Americans as a whole”

    You also find this convincing? Yes, no? Why?

    Munroe (237eb2)

  76. lany,

    That is a clear position and I appreciate being released from that Binary Choice in 2020. i am equally glad you and Trump don’t need me anymore!

    DRJ (3a8a8a)

  77. Does it matter? I thought the arguments are what matter.

    Not sure if this is addressed to me.

    I am not “NeverTrump” for policy reasons, although I disagree with quite a few of his.

    Even if Trump and I agreed on every last nuance of policy, I would still oppose him for being an evil, bigoted Russian stooge, unfit to lead the greatest country in the world.

    Dave (1bb933)

  78. DRJ not only trump but republican party says shape up or ship out with your free trade libertarian conservative bull sh*t go vote for AOC or ilhan omar.

    lany (288dba)

  79. You know, sammy at 75, Im starting to think the Tempe Police Starbucks incident was made up, just a way to drench whatever embers remained of a Howard Schultz candidacy, lest the demand became too great.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  80. not only trump but republican party says shape up or ship out with your free trade libertarian conservative bull sh*t go vote for AOC or ilhan omar. Is this for real?

    Dana (bb0678)

  81. Munroe,

    A good general does walk back his positions to a perimeter he can defend. That’s what you seem to be doing.

    You’ve gone from Ilhan Omar wants America to be Somalia to well, she doesn’t really mean it when she says loves this country. I suspect, if you make some effort, you can find links defending that position, and I suspect, if I felt like it, I could argue the contrary pretty well. But Snopes already did that.

    I don’t like Ms. Omar, and think her district would be better served by somebody else. So, I think I am going to leave it now. Dave may take up the fight, though.

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  82. If ‘Memorex’ serves, The Big Dick was a bigot; a divider… and won re-election in a landslide.

    History rhymes:

    ‘The Great Silent Majority’ is listening.

    And watching.

    And white.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  83. DRJ not only trump but republican party says shape up or ship out with your free trade libertarian conservative bull sh*t go vote for AOC or ilhan omar.

    How very NSDAP of you, how much of their 25 point manifesto do you agree with?

    These seem to hew closely with you rhetoric.

    –Only Germans may be citizens of the Germany. Only those of the German races may be members of the nation, their religion does not matter. No Jew may be a citizen.
    –Non-citizens may live in Germany, but there will be special laws for foreigners living in Germany.
    –Only citizens can vote for parliament and councils, or vote on laws. Everyone who works for the German government, a state government or even a small village must be a citizen of Germany. We will stop giving people jobs because of the political party they are in, only the best people should get a job.
    –We think that the government’s first job is to make sure every citizen has a job and enough to eat. If the government cannot do this, people who are not citizens should be made to leave Germany.
    –No-one who is not of a German-race should be allowed to live in Germany. We want anyone who is not of a German-race who started living in Germany after 2 August 1914 to leave the country.
    –We want the law to stop politicians from being anti-German, and newspapers from writing about them. To make a German national press we demand:
    *that all editors of, and writers in the German language newspapers are members of the nation (of a German race);
    *Foreign newspapers need permission from the government. They must not be printed in the German language;
    *Non-Germans cannot own or control German newspapers;
    *Any non German who does own or control a newspaper will be made to leave Germany, and the newspaper closed down;
    *Newspapers which criticise the country or the government are not allowed.
    *Art and books which support foreign ideas, should be banned.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  84. DRJ not only trump but republican party says shape up or ship out with your free trade libertarian conservative bull sh*t go vote for AOC or ilhan omar.

    LOL

    AOC and Ilhan Omar are free trade libertarian consevatives now?

    (I have this mental picture of lany as Bluto, frothing at the mouth about the Germans bombing Pearl Harbor…)

    Dave (1bb933)

  85. @76. Oooooo! The ‘Spirit of #76!, eh?!?;” Looks like sipping some Orange Julius put a little goose in your step today!! 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  86. sometimes I don’t know who is the performance artist, is it perry the Stalinist, ted knight aka man of mystery, or some people I used to take seriously, now the fedayeen are like angler fish, you can find their mindset in gillebrand, who fashions herself as the most woke girl in Westchester county, the one with the papa in the real hellfire club, my personal fave is gabbard, ideological objections aside, but she can’t get arrested,

    narciso (d1f714)

  87. “the one with the papa in the real hellfire club”

    Her papa was a rolling bone?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  88. I dismiss the atom splitting physicist, just because, I mean this place used to pride itself on analysis of the news, not accepting the given narrative, but it’s easier to set up strawmen, and pretend that one is brave and repeating the rostrums of the other 99,

    narciso (d1f714)

  89. He can’t stray off the plantation, narciso.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  90. not only trump but republican party says shape up or ship out with your free trade libertarian conservative bull sh*t go vote for AOC or ilhan omar. Is this for real?

    Dana (bb0678) — 7/17/2019 @ 1:40 pm

    I vehemently disagree with perspective.

    The GOP needs everyone. You can support the good things that the GOP/Trump does, while at the same time put on your umpire uniform and call a “strike” a bloody strike.

    We’re not free from constructive criticisms and we shouldn’t expect that from politicians that we support either.

    whembly (51f28e)

  91. like I say performance art, I do find not enough concern, about what their mindset leads to, as for alternatives, we know now paul singer will not allow ted cruz to advance to the final match, john Kasich and larry Hogan, are quixotic exercises, and as for bill weld, the less said the better,

    narciso (d1f714)

  92. lany,

    That is a clear position and I appreciate being released from that Binary Choice in 2020. i am equally glad you and Trump don’t need me anymore!“

    I have never read a comment from lany and thought for one second he and Trump were together on anything.

    harkin (b0f43e)

  93. Hillary wasn’t Stalinist enough, he may have been a stein voter,

    narciso (d1f714)

  94. lany is Perry who would be a Bernie Bro if Bernie were not such a fascist capitalist running dog, if you get the idea. He “supports” Trump the way he would support Ebola at the Republican National Convention. Isn’t that right, Perry?

    nk (dbc370)

  95. he probably voted for the far left candidate in 2000

    narciso (d1f714)

  96. Ya’ll should read this Jake Tapper thread on the 4 anonymous democrats….

    @jaketapper
    House Democrats appeared unified in their votes this week but I’ve spent the day talking to a bunch of them and many are extremely frustrated. All agree POTUS’s tweets needed to be condemned; they spoke under condition of anonymity so they could be candid. (Thread)

    @jaketapper
    2/ “The president won this one,” said House Dem 1 of the Trump v Squad (AOC, Tlaib, Omar & Pressley) showdown. “What the president has done is politically brilliant. Pelosi was trying to marginalize these folks and the president has now identified the entire party with them.”

    @jaketapper
    3/ Another issue: what are Dems focused on? Is it what will help the class of 2018 (largely more moderate than the Squad) get reelected?

    Dem Rep 2: “The president’s words and actions speak for themselves. We need to focus on the issues that got them here: jobs, health care…”

    @jaketapper
    4/ “…instead of the issues the president brings up deliberately. Anything that takes away from bread and butter issues is playing into his hands.”

    @jaketapper
    5/ Other House Democrats are conflicted about having to defend the Squad given things they’ve said and done. House Dems cited: talk of supporting challengers to incumbent Dems in primaries, AOC’s use of the term “concentration camps,” anti-Semitic comments by Tlaib & Omar.

    @jaketapper
    6/ This perceived selective outrage rankled some Dems.

    “Everybody was completely outraged by what the president said,” said House Dem 3, “and everybody thought it was appropriate to criticize him…

    @jaketapper
    7/ “…but this was the *first* time the House has taken action to criticize him in any way, We couldn’t even bring ourselves to have a resolution exclusively condemning anti-Semitism uttered by one of those members” — Omar — “but we leapt to their defense here.”

    @jaketapper
    8/ A few House Dems noted that Omar and Tlaib just introduced a resolution affirming the right of Americans to boycott, perceived as an expression of support for the anti-Israel BDS (boycott, divest, and sanction) movement that most House Dems oppose.

    @jaketapper
    9/ “So we’ll hear a tirade of attacks on Israel from the same group,” said House Dem 3. “Hopefully they won’t be anti Semitic.”

    House Dem 4 also brought up that bill coming “from someone with a history of anti-Semitism” — Omar — “So yeah it’s challenging.”

    @jaketapper
    10/ House Dem 4 recalls that “less than 2 weeks ago when members of our caucus were trying to support funds for children at the border,” the Squad was arguing that “we’re pro-putting kids in cages, we’re against human rights. So there’s frustration.”

    @jaketapper
    11/ Others noted that this week the House Democratic Caucus stood by a group that is not perceived as standing by them.

    “I can’t tell you the number of Members who are angry and annoyed about them criticizing us,” said House Dem 3.

    @jaketapper
    12/ AOC, in particular “gives her chief of staff license to get candidates to run against her colleagues and to go after them on social media. It makes people’s skin crawl,” said House Dem 3.

    House Dem 4 summed it up: “We were there for them; they should stop attacking us.”

    whembly (4605df)

  97. Whembly – I just came in here specifically to post Tapper’s tweets 1 & 2.

    Even some of the Dems think he’s playing 5-level chess (I personally don’t. I think the Dems problem is that they fail to realize that their entire party is even more dishonest, delusional, self-absorbed and around the bend than Trump and The Squad is just pure infantile lunacy on roids).

    harkin (b0f43e)

  98. Trump went to NC for a big rally to celebrate. The crowd chanted ‘Send her back’ about Ilhan Omar.

    DRJ (15874d)

  99. House Dem 4 summed it up: “We were there for them; they should stop attacking us.”

    Said the frog to the scorpion. LOL

    Munroe (0b2761)

  100. Whembley and harkin… sure doesn’t sound like there’s much unity.

    Sad.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  101. If only, DRJ…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  102. “There’s a constant struggle oftentimes with people who have power about sharing that power. We are not really in the business of asking for the share of that power. We’re in the business of trying to grab that power.”

    — Ilhan Omar at Nutroots

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  103. This from a member of my music forum in response to an article that video footage of Trump and Epstein partying together in the early 90s has surfaced

    Attempting to tie Epstein to Trump will just result in ~42% of the electorate adopting a stance in favour of pedophilia. I’m not sure if that’s better or worse than the current situation.

    Kishnevi (64dd45)

  104. Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 7/17/2019 @ 6:32 pm

    She’s explaining politics as it is practiced now, and has been practiced for three centuries, in this country. And in most of the world for almost all of human history.

    Are you suddenly angry that a politician is honest for once?

    Kishnevi (64dd45)

  105. Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 7/17/2019 @ 2:14 pm

    An interesting phenomenon is going on here. Being antiIsrael is now being labelled by some people, including some commenters here, as being anti-American.

    It’s almost as if they want to turn Omar’s antiSemitic lie around and make it a fact.

    Kishnevi (64dd45)

  106. Kishnevi (64dd45) — 7/17/2019 @ 6:38 pm

    our president donald mr trump always says please and always shares especially when it comes to power because he’s a good person and loves everyone

    Dave (55e817)

  107. And pro Hamas and pro Taliban as well as al shabaab, they will plead mere justice at first but as we’ve seen in rotherdam and rochdale, malmo and cologne they demand something else

    Narciso (09b0bf)

  108. An interesting phenomenon is going on here. Being antiIsrael is now being labelled by some people, including some commenters here, as being anti-American.

    Israel is not her country, mine either, I’m all for supporting them when our interests align, but I care more about American interests than some other country’s; Israel, Saudi Arabia, Haiti, or Alabama. I’d expect an Israeli to do care more about Israel’s too.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  109. The two go together. Most of the Tlaib-Ilhan ilk hate America because of our support of Israel.

    nk (dbc370)

  110. Speaking of ilks, I wonder what happened to SPQR. I haven’t seen him at SayUncle for a while now, either.

    nk (dbc370)


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