Patterico's Pontifications

7/3/2019

President Trump: Reports About Pursuing Citizenship Question Are FAKE!

Filed under: General — Dana @ 9:20 am



[guest post by Dana]

President Trump tweeting this morning:

census

Interesting, considering that Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross said yesterday that the new questionnaires are already being printed – without the question:

“The Census Bureau has started the process of printing the decennial questionnaires without the question,” he said. “My focus, and that of the Bureau and the entire Department is to conduct a complete and accurate census.”

(Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.)

–Dana

77 Responses to “President Trump: Reports About Pursuing Citizenship Question Are FAKE!”

  1. Does he not understand how this works? Is he not in communication with his people? He doesn’t strike me as thinking ahead to the next census (when he would be long out of office, whether he wins in 2020 or not). What am I missing here?

    Dana (bb0678)

  2. Dana, his base likes that he “fights for them”. He seems to feel that “winning” is part of who he is. So, he’s telling his base that the fight is still on and that he hasn’t lost yet. The factual accuracy of his statement is in no way relevant.

    Time123 (d54166)

  3. Dana,

    He watched Fox News, or somethng else, and saw reports that he had lost or conceded, and additional reports that he didn’t have to cave yet. So he’s reversing himself. The people who report that earlier position are FAKE NEWS,

    The question is — does he actually reverse the printing of the census, or just rely on the base’s willingness to swallow even his most obvious lies. Who knows? Guess we’ll find out in a few days.

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  4. A few days before they said they could print a revised questionaiire as late as October, but they would start printing now with the old version.

    The thing is, it isn’t realistic to expect that a revised questionaiire could pass all the court tests by October.

    Of course Trump could try to send people a second questionaire. Or put it in the online version (which they want people to use to answer – people would enter he form number online)

    Sammy Finkelman (0d0ca8)

  5. It is probably true that Donald Trump never signed on to abandoning the court fight at the point, and Wilbur Ross’s statement that they are going rp pint the old form was misconstrued.

    Sammy Finkelman (0d0ca8)

  6. Sammy, that may be true, but is also irrelevant. He doesn’t say things because they’re true, or reflect his intentions, or reflect what happened. He says them because they help his brand or sound good at the moment.

    Time123 (d54166)

  7. I thought this should be clear:

    Trump is not reversing the printing of the Census forms, but he reserves the right to later print a different version and throw out the first printings (or perhaps add a second piece of paper to be included in the mailing, maybe stapled to rest of it) should a court uphold the right to ask the multi-choice citizenship question.

    Yes, the multi-choice citizenship question:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/02/us/trump-census-citizenship-question.html

    As drafted by the administration, the census would have asked: “Is this person a citizen of the United States?” Options were to include: “Yes, born in the United States”; “Yes, born in Puerto Rico, Guam, the U.S. Virgin Islands, or Northern Marianas”; “Yes, born abroad of U.S. citizen parent or parents”; “Yes, U.S. citizen by naturalization”; or “No, not a U.S. citizen.”

    Sammy Finkelman (0d0ca8)

  8. This is not the first time he has publicly pulled the rug out from his leadership.

    Dana (bb0678)

  9. Also, if there is an explanation to clear this up, why haven’t they released it?

    Time123 (d54166)

  10. This is an easy one: Trump is lying.

    nk (dbc370)

  11. 6. Time123 (d54166) — 7/3/2019 @ 9:57 am

    He doesn’t say things because they’re true, or reflect his intentions, or reflect what happened. He says them because they help his brand or sound good at the moment.

    But to sound good they have be at least the truth;s second cousin.

    Trump, of course, could have clarified exactly what is going on. They have contingency plans for asking that quesiton should a court allow it. There’s also not too much chance it’ll be allowed in time to do it. A day or two before Trump was pondering postponing the April 1 date for the Census.

    Of course he could go to Congress for permission, not that he’d get it. Either for changinbg the questionaire, or moving the census to July or September. The constitution only says within ten years of the previous census. It wasn’t alwsays in April.

    Sammy Finkelman (0d0ca8)

  12. nk, I guess I can still caught off guard by what an unabashed liar he is.

    Dana (bb0678)

  13. 9. Time123 (d54166) — 7/3/2019 @ 9:57 am

    , if there is an explanation to clear this up, why haven’t they released it?

    He doesn’t want to clear things up because his target audience won’t like it as much as what his tweet implies.

    But reporters can ferret it out. If the Administration is pressed, they will explain exactly what is going on.

    Expect to see stories clarifying things in a day or two.

    Sammy Finkelman (0d0ca8)

  14. Does he not understand how this works?

    No, why would he change the trend of not understanding? He’s a moron. And yes, a known moron was elected president.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  15. “The great Trump has spoken! Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!”

    Dave (1bb933)

  16. The only rug that wsas ouklled out was from Commerce Department people who should have known beter who wriote teh stateent for wilbur Ross and gave the wrong answer to reporters.

    The Administration had already said that July 1 wasn’t a hard and fast drop dead deadline for deciding, but they would start printing July 1.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/27/us/census-printing.html

    The Census Bureau has said that it needs to begin printing forms in July, setting a deadline of Monday. But one senior census official has said the bureau could wait until as late as Oct. 31 to begin if necessary, an assessment that some experts have disputed.

    The deadline for completing the job is only months away. The first census forms must be distributed in Alaska in January; by law, the count must be completed by Dec. 31, 2020….

    ….Margo Anderson, a census historian and the author of “The American Census: A Social History,” said she has seen two mock-ups of the 2020 census questionnaire, one form with the citizenship question and one without it. Census officials planned to begin printing the forms after they got the Supreme Court’s decision.

    “Basically what they’ve planned is, there are two forms, the printer has both mock-ups, and when we get the court’s decision, they’ll push the button on this one and not that one,” she said.

    The reporters are all ignoring that Census official (probably apolitical appointee) who said they could wait until October. It’s disputed, but people do alot of things under deadline.

    The simplest thing would be to send the form with a supplementary page, and include it in the online version, not allowing the online version to be sent without answering that question, at least with a don’t know. (same as whatever the case is for not putting in a date of birth. Required field, except they wouldn’t want to stop people from answering altogether.)

    So they’d allow it to be filed online with the citizenship question not answered, but if not answered, they’d get a follow up telehone call (if number was provided) or email (if provided) or a letter or a visit. a lot of people could be uncertain how to answer that question.

    The Census, by the way, asks both a date of birth and an age, to catch or prevent mistakes and rounding.

    Sammy Finkelman (0d0ca8)

  17. “Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of the American citizenry?” -eh, Captain, sir?!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  18. No, they are not asking about anyone who is no longer a citizen.

    In fact, the circumstances of anyone who is not a citizen is not asked. But if someone a citizen, the proposed question is multiple choice.

    It would have looked something like this:

    “Is this person a citizen of the United States?” (check one box)

    1. Yes, born in the United States,

    2. Yes, born in Puerto Rico, Guam, the U.S. Virgin Islands, or Northern Marianas.

    3. Yes, born abroad of U.S. citizen parent or parents.

    4. Yes, U.S. citizen by naturalization

    5. No, not a U.S. citizen,

    I think, if you study this, you can see that this question is badly worded, or requires the assistance of a lawyer.

    Sammy Finkelman (0d0ca8)

  19. Sammy @11 do you have an example of a trump statement was rejected by his base because it lacked sufficient accuracy?

    Time123 (d54166)

  20. Requires the assistance of a lawyer for some people.

    Questions arise:

    1. Isn’t Puerto Rico part of the United States?

    2. If by “the United States” you mean a place that has Electoral votes, does it have to have had Electoral votes at the time when the erson was born?

    3. What about someone born on a military base, overseas or in the Paama Canal Zone or Guantanamo Bay? Well, that may have an obvious answer, but it may not be all that clear to some people

    4. What if somebody is a citizen because their parents were naturalized? (it means they too were naturalized.)

    Sammy Finkelman (0d0ca8)

  21. 19. Time123 (d54166) — 7/3/2019 @ 10:57 am

    Sammy @11 do you have an example of a trump statement was rejected by his base because it lacked sufficient accuracy?

    Do we have any polls on that?

    I think Trump himself is careful. He is avoiding too pointed critcism.

    Sammy Finkelman (0d0ca8)

  22. do you have an example of a trump statement was rejected by his base because it lacked sufficient accuracy?

    That’s not really how it works. Their conditioning does not really allow them to “reject” his statements outright.

    Rather, when it becomes obvious, even to the True Believers, that it’s simply impossible to defend one of his lies any longer (c.f. releasing his taxes, locking up Hillary, Mexico paying for the wall, replacing Obamacare with much cheaper universal coverage, eliminating the national debt in eight years, etc), they claim that, well, of course we never took him literally and how could you nevertrumpers be so foolish as to suggest that he actually meant something he said repeatedly?

    Dave (1bb933)

  23. NeverTrump just hates all the lying.

    https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/4cddf669-6d9d-4ac7-83c6-40787fb41c33

    Munroe (796dfd)

  24. @Time123

    Maybe this one:

    Donald J. Trump
    @realDonaldTrump

    I know Mark Cuban well. He backed me big-time but I wasn’t interested in taking all of his calls.He’s not smart enough to run for president!

    8:23 AM – Feb 12, 2017

    Source:

    https://time.com/5116461/donald-trump-twitter-tweets-poll-yougov (posted JANUARY 24, 2018)

    In fact, the only Trump tweet with a negative numerical value among Republicans under the YouGov system was the one attacking Cuban.

    Sammy Finkelman (0d0ca8)

  25. That seems like a good one Sammy. I still think the factual accuracy of his statements isn’t a goal to him, or his supporters. When he says something easily proven false they just sort of fling out random noise and misdirects.

    Time123 (d54166)

  26. In fact, the only Trump tweet with a negative numerical value among Republicans under the YouGov system was the one attacking Cuban.

    So he can insult PoWs, defecate on the First Amendment and fellate brutal dictators…but by God, the new Republican Party draws the line at disrespecting Mark Cuban!

    Dave (1bb933)

  27. Sad fact: Trump doesn’t lie any more than your typical politician. He just does it in a direct manner, rather than couching it in weasel words run through a focus group. If Trump weren’t a total moron, he’d learn the art of weaselness, so he could impress the easily duped.

    Munroe (1eabc4)

  28. Mark Cuban is a sports and entertainment figure, whom more people have a previous not very unfavorable) opinion of.

    Sammy Finkelman (0d0ca8)

  29. 27. The fact that he isn’t a weasel is precisely what seems to impress his base. They’re not being duped. They’re being lied to and they just don’t care.

    Gryph (08c844)

  30. It’s how you do the weaseling, because at the end of they day, that’s what it is. Weaseling.

    Dana (bb0678)

  31. According to David Thornton, it was because of an unfavorable ruling by the Supreme Court. Chief Justice Roberts, writing for the majority, explains his ruling.

    https://theresurgent.com/2019/07/03/trump-shelves-citizenship-census-question/

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  32. Reuters is reporting that Maryland’s Judge Hazel is concerned about Trump’s tweet:

    First word from Maryland judge’s census call: Judge seemed “concerned” about Trump’s tweet & has given parties until 2pm Friday to come up with stipulation saying that citizenship Q will not be on census. Otherwise, equal protection claims will move forward – per lawyer involved

    Also Judge Furman in NY is asking the same of Trump administration.

    Dana (bb0678)

  33. https://twitter.com/mjs_DC/status/1146526462075375617

    “Justice Department lawyer: Trump’s census tweet this morning “was the first I had heard of the President’s position on this issue.”

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  34. Welp, we don’t need a census question to know that the fake “supporters” shown in the Trump campaign’s Facebook ads aren’t citizens:

    A series of Facebook video ads for President Donald Trump’s re-election campaign shows what appears to be a young woman strolling on a beach in Florida, a Hispanic man on a city street in Texas and a bearded hipster in a coffee shop in Washington, D.C., all making glowing, voice-over endorsements of the president.

    “I could not ask for a better president,” intones the voice during slow-motion footage of the smiling blonde called “Tracey from Florida.” A man labeled on another video as “AJ from Texas” stares into the camera as a voice says, “Although I am a lifelong Democrat, I sincerely believe that a nation must secure its borders.”

    There’s just one problem: The people in the videos that ran in the past few months are all actually models in stock video footage produced far from the U.S. in France, Brazil and Turkey, and available to anyone online for a fee.

    Trump 2020: No Lie Is Too Big!

    Dave (1bb933)

  35. The voice is separate from the picture?

    And the voice has to be a paid actor anyway.

    You’d think they were selling prescription medicine. There people know it’s not real peole, ecause when it is real people, the company says so in the advertisement.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  36. it’s funny how little they care about citizens, who are the ones who are eligible to vote, I know it would cut down on the money train,

    narciso (d1f714)

  37. And thus does Trump — incomparable idiot and always his own worst enemy — begin to create the new record of noncompliance with the Administrative Procedure Act. There are five votes on the current SCOTUS for the proposition that the question may be asked. But one of them is Chief Justice Roberts, who last go-around called out the Trump Administration for its clown-car incompetence in making a record of proper compliance with the steps legally necessary to accomplish that. By flagging all the stupid things the Trump Administration did the first time around, Chief Justice Roberts gave them a detailed road map of what pitfalls and embarrassments to avoid the next time around. And yet Trump — utterly ridiculous, utterly incompetent, and utterly inconsistent — can’t follow, won’t follow, the damned map. Instead, he saws off the limb underneath the government lawyers who’ve been telling the relevant judges that this dispute is moot and the Commerce has given up asking the question during this Census by immediately going on Twitter to hand the other side fresh new evidence that it will need to whip his sorry stupid flabby butt in court yet again.

    This is just world-class stupidity and incompetence. It’s mind-boggling. But will Trump accept any responsibility when his tweets are exhibits in the next court challenge on grounds of pretext? No, it will be anyone and everyone else’s fault! Blame John Roberts! Blame Hillary! Blame anyone but the actual person responsible — that idiot, that oaf, Donald J. Trump!

    Beldar (fa637a)

  38. @ Munroe, who wrote, in part (#27): “… so he could impress the easily duped.”

    Thank you for that self-identification. Munroe, you’re at a poker table where you don’t know who’s the mark. That means: It’s you.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  39. 37. Beldar (fa637a) — 7/3/2019 @ 3:53 pm

    Instead, he saws off the limb underneath the government lawyers who’ve been telling the relevant judges that this dispute is moot

    I think nobody told Trump the dispute was moot.

    Last he was heard from before on the issue, Trump tweeted he was asking government lawyers if the Census could be postponed:

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1144298731887628288

    Donald J. Trump
    @realDonaldTrump

    Seems totally ridiculous that our government, and indeed Country, cannot ask a basic question of Citizenship in a very expensive, detailed and important Census, in this case for 2020. I have asked the lawyers if they can delay the Census, no matter how long, until the…..

    10:37 AM – 27 Jun 2019

    …..United States Supreme Court is given additional information from which it can make a final and decisive decision on this very critical matter. Can anyone really believe that as a great Country, we are not able the ask whether or not someone is a Citizen. Only in America!

    10:37 AM – 27 Jun 2019

    Sammy Finkelman (845007)

  40. Beldar:

    and the Commerce has given up asking the question during this Census by immediately going on Twitter to hand the other side fresh new evidence that it will need to whip his sorry stupid flabby butt in court yet again.

    II don’t think getting beaten in court really matters to him, if he can keep on fighting longer. The opponents were saying already that they weren’t going to give up he cases in case this was not dead.

    This is just world-class stupidity and incompetence. It’s mind-boggling. But will Trump accept any esponsibility when his tweets are exhibits in the next court challenge on grounds of pretext? No, it will be anyone and everyone else’s fault! Blame John Roberts! Blame Hillary! Blame anyone but the actual person responsible — that idiot, that oaf, Donald J. Trump

    All Trump said was that it wasn’t over.

    Now anofficial has said it’s not over.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/doj-says-it-will-reevaluate-adding-citizenship-census-question/

    Here is the court transcript:

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Y6GBkBKojPTN_mqhKnWEh4kSMCJFSite/view

    According to this Trump also gave an nterview in which he said he wanted the question so he government could istinuish between citizens and illegal aliens, which the
    plaintiff’s attorney said was nonsensical besides leding the public to believe that the goermentw ould violate – does he mean the guanrantee by law of the confidentiality of the answers for 72 years?

    Sammy Finkelman (845007)

  41. “Thank you for that self-identification.”
    Beldar (fa637a) — 7/3/2019 @ 3:56 pm

    Moi? Sir, I’m very unimpressed by weaselness. I was identifying others — those who have a distaste for the direct and uncouth lie, but who lap up the lie drowned in a fetid soup of weasel flavorings.

    An example to illustrate the point:
    “As soon as I take office, I will begin the process of moving the United States ambassador to the city Israel has chosen as its capital.”

    Bush had no intention of ever moving the embassy, but the false impression he creates is made palatable (to the willingly duped) by the secret spice, the phrase “begin the process”, which allowed the slop to be downed with satisfaction by so many of his superfans.

    Munroe (b22c42)

  42. 38 & 41

    If Trump isn’t impressing the easily duped, how else would you characterize the first term of his presidency so far? Or is it that I’m right, and his “marks” don’t care if they’re being conned? I shouldn’t be surprised, really. Every time I think my fellow Americans have plumbed the depths of ignorance and depravity, someone somewhere ends up surprising me nonetheless.

    Gryph (08c844)

  43. The definition of “mark” includes actively refusing to admit to themselves or to others that they are being conned.

    There was one Super Trumpkin here, posting long comments, some under a male identity and some under female one (that was weird), who said that Trump may be a conman but the people he is conning are the ones who don’t trust him and he is taking their money and giving it to the people who do. I swear.

    nk (dbc370)

  44. 43. So if you know someone is conning you, and you embrace it — simply not caring — what should we call that?

    Gryph (08c844)

  45. Mr. Donald the President also known as Trump calls it “low IQ stone loser” and that’s why I love him.

    nk (dbc370)

  46. In a way the Trumpniki are not being conned.
    They want someone who will expose what they think of as the hypocrisy and lies of everyone else in politics. They think of themselves as having been conned by the GOPe, and Trump is their weapon to expose the lies. This also gives them the right to think that things like truth and integrity are merely slogans to be deployed strategically against others.

    Sad thing is that Trump has done just that. But not in the way they think he has.

    Sadder yet is the spectacle of people (some of them right here on this blog) who don’t claim to be Trumpkins yet fully embrace the program of jettisoning principle from politics.

    Kishnevi (17be14)

  47. Munroe, that you could assert with a straight face that “Trump doesn’t lie any more than your typical politician” shows how deeply in denial you actually are, sir.

    I recommend — again, because I’ve touted it here before — Maria Konnikova’s January 2016 book, The Confidence Game: Why We Fall for It … Every Time. It was not written about Trump in particular, but rather, con men — and their marks — in general. But reading it, one cannot help but be struck by its thorough-going applicability to Trump and his fans. She devotes part of one chapter, entitled “The Blow-Off and the Fix,” to the astonishing continuing loyalty of the victims to their con man: even after they’ve been thoroughly fleeced, they “denied that any deception had even taken place.” She writes that “the same force that makes people loath to disclose they’ve been had can sometimes make those same people into grifters in their own right.”

    (Some of them go on the internet to bond with fellow marks, all of whom re-assure themselves and others with statements like “Trump doesn’t lie any more than your typical politician.”)

    In describing “the blow-off and the fix” and the other recognizable part of every successful con artist’s bag of tricks, earlier in the book she writes (italics mine):

    The confidence game starts with basic human psychology. From the [con] artist’s perspective, it’s a question of identifying the victim (the put-up): who is he, what does he want, and how can I play on that desire to achieve what I want? It requires the creation of empathy and rapport (the play): an emotional foundation must be laid before any scheme is proposed, any game set in motion. Only then does it move to logic and persuasion (the rope): the scheme (the tale), the evidence and the way it will work to your benefit (the convincer), the show of actual profits. And like a fly caught in a spider’s web, the more we struggle, the less able we become to extricate ourselves we become (the breakdown). By the time things begin to look dicey, we tend to be so invested, emotionally and often physically, that we do most of the persuasion ourselves. We may even choose to up our involvement ourselves, even as things turn south (the send), so that by the time we’re completely fleeced (the touch), we don’t know quite what hit us. The con artist may not even need to convince us to stay quiet (the blow-off and fix); we are more likely than not to do so ourselves. We are, after all, the best deceivers of our own minds. At each step of the game, con artists draw from a seemingly endless toolbox of ways to manipulate our belief. And as soon as we become more committed, with every step we give them more psychological material to work with.

    Throughout history, some people have had a predisposition to worship “a strong man on a horse” — Alexander the Great, Napoleon, Mussolini, etc. The spectacular depth and breadth of Trump’s con, though, is that he’s gotten these same people to worship a fat man in a golf cart.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  48. @ kishnevi,

    In a way the Trumpniki are not being conned.
    They want someone who will expose what they think of as the hypocrisy and lies of everyone else in politics. They think of themselves as having been conned by the GOPe, and Trump is their weapon to expose the lies. This also gives them the right to think that things like truth and integrity are merely slogans to be deployed strategically against others.

    Sad thing is that Trump has done just that. But not in the way they think he has.

    Sadder yet is the spectacle of people (some of them right here on this blog) who don’t claim to be Trumpkins yet fully embrace the program of jettisoning principle from politics

    Overall, I agree with this. What I would add is that both parties, Trump and his supporters, mutually use one another for their own benefit and gain. And neither party’s goals can be counted on as being in the nation’s best interest. Trump is the mouthpiece for their frustrations and they provide him the accolades and affection he craves. To have so much of oneself invested in any president is mind-boggling. But to have so much of oneself invested in this particular one just doesn’t compute with me.

    Dana (bb0678)

  49. “Throughout history, some people have had a predisposition to worship “a strong man on a horse” — Alexander the Great, Napoleon, Mussolini, etc. The spectacular depth and breadth of Trump’s con, though, is that he’s gotten these same people to worship a fat man in a golf cart.”
    Beldar (fa637a) — 7/3/2019 @ 7:21 pm

    The dark night of tyranny is always descending in the personage of Trump and yet lands only in the form of those trying to undermine him.

    As for Konnikova, she may as well be describing Bush Jr., or just about any other huckster politician. Or, is there really only one?

    Munroe (f6fb40)

  50. But to have so much of oneself invested in this particular one just doesn’t compute with me.

    I’m repeatedly astonished by how deeply it irks some people when Trump is criticized — no matter how indefensible the actions or how loony the words that drew the criticism. There’s a desperate need to sustain the illusion that Trump is always right, and always running circles around all his critics and opponents.

    Many say they support Trump because they’re sick of condescension and scorn by the “liberal elite.” But it’s hard to see how the remedy for that scorn could be to bestow fervent loyalty on someone who tends to confirm the worst stereotypes that Democrats have attached to Republicans. “Now it’s obvious what they really were all along” is a sort of comment I frequently see from the left nowadays.

    Radegunda (d8a738)

  51. The dark night of tyranny is always descending in the personage of Trump and yet lands only in the form of those trying to undermine him.

    That’s more obscure and impenetrable than even narciso’s most cryptic observations.

    Try saying what you mean in straight-forward terms. Are you seriously trying to argue that those who criticize Trump are proponents of tyranny? If so, for what would-be tyrant? Is there someone else making “jokes” about being entitled to ignore the Constitution and stay a couple of extra years, just because so many people have been mean to him?

    As for undermining Trump: As I’ve pointed out as forcefully as I’m able, time after time, Trump does more to undermine himself and his administration than all his enemies put together. He did so again today. Are you going to pretend that his flip-flop, his cutting off of his own administration officials without warning at the knees, is a mark of leadership? Of basic competency?

    At least this is the last we’ll ever hear from you, Munroe, about “binary choices” and how awful Hillary was since — since you think there’s really only one politician. I will grant you that both Hillary and Trump are thoroughly awful, easily the two worst nominees ever fielded by either major party for the presidency. But if you can’t tell the difference between them and any other politicians, you’re just embarrassing yourself. (Good thing you’re shameless, like Trump and, for that matter, Hillary.)

    Beldar (fa637a)

  52. Thanks, too, Munroe, for your review of the book I linked. You’ve read it, right?

    Or did you just feel like the rest of us can’t possibly live without your spectacularly uninformed opinion about a book you’ve never read?

    Beldar (fa637a)

  53. “This is not the first time he has publicly pulled the rug out from his leadership”

    Seriously? He’s pulling the rug out from his leadership here? In an echo chamber it must be hard to hear yourself think.

    Ptw (cf8508)

  54. Also exactly what Monroe said at 27 and 41.

    Ptw (cf8508)

  55. I read where justin amash quit the republican party, he must have found out his son wants to be his daughter.

    mg (8cbc69)

  56. It was Gunther grass’s statement about prog pretensions related to Jean jacques revel, in Tom wolfes purple decades, right up there with Bernstein’s panther love.

    Narciso (d68160)

  57. When you all start sounding like Robert scheer or Michael hiltzik without any context, its discouraging

    Narciso (d68160)

  58. Prediction: Trump will manage to get the Census enjoined into 2021, and if he’s not re-elected it will be “bad luck” when the Democrats pad all the blue-state numbers with statistical estimates.

    Kevin M (61459c)

  59. If it wasn’t for bad luck hard working taxpayers wouldn’t have any luck at all.

    mg (8cbc69)

  60. In an echo chamber it must be hard to hear yourself think.

    Ptw (cf8508) — 7/4/2019 @ 2:41 am

    Is that a personal attack on Patterico.com commenters who you disagree with? It sounds like it.

    DRJ (15874d)

  61. To denounce trump isnt brave, its what’s more breakfast lunch and dinner, ABC CBS NBC CNN, MSNBC young Turks post times journal Gannett

    Narciso (dc0f8d)

  62. Is classifying commenters here (as for or against Trump) the new binary choice?

    DRJ (15874d)

  63. ‘Is there someone else making “jokes” about being entitled to ignore the Constitution and stay a couple of extra years, just because so many people have been mean to him?’
    Beldar (fa637a) — 7/3/2019 @ 11:52 pm

    As a republic, we should be relieved if all Horowitz, Durham and Huber find are “jokes”.

    Munroe (505c89)

  64. That was for out swedish friend, I’m not crazy about tariffs I dont think thr pas de doux will work out, nor this Marshall plan for the Palestinians that’s three areas of disagreement. That dont take three paragraphs

    Narciso (dc0f8d)

  65. Is classifying commenters here (as for or against Trump) the new binary choice?

    That’s obviously the binary choice for a lot of people who comment elsewhere. “Anti-Trump” is a catchall for all kinds of badness. If you’re “anti-Trump,” or if you have ever criticized Trump, it means you’re “deranged,” and not credible on any topic. It means you “hate America.”

    But “not a cult!” they say. No, it’s everyone else who’s the “cult.”

    Cultists always deny they’re in a cult. They believe they’re following the True Prophet of the One Truth, and that everyone outside the cult is deluded (or “deranged”).

    Radegunda (d8a738)

  66. The dark night of tyranny is always descending in the personage of Trump and yet lands only in the form of those trying to undermine him.

    That’s more obscure and impenetrable than even narciso’s most cryptic observations.

    That’s just a ripoff of a Tom Wolfe quote from the essay”The Intelligent Coed’s Guide to America” pg 115 of the collection “Mauve Gloves & Madmen, Clutter & Vine” in 1976. The actual unadulterated quote is “the dark night of fascism is always descending in the United States and yet lands only in Europe.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  67. Thanks, Colonel Klink (#65). I was familiar with the Wolfe quote, but I still can’t process Munroe’s mangled version of it.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  68. #62 is another one of Munroe’s spectacular non sequiturs. First he quotes something I’ve written. Then he makes a 90 degree pivot to some completely different subject, without ever actually responding to or addressing what I’ve written. It’s one of his habits. If he’s going to blather, I’d rather he not pretend that he’s blathering specifically to or about me.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  69. “This is not the first time he has publicly pulled the rug out from his leadership”

    Seriously? He’s pulling the rug out from his leadership here? In an echo chamber it must be hard to hear yourself think.

    Ptw (cf8508) — 7/4/2019 @ 2:41 am

    Well, what do you call it when a sitting president says pretty much the exact opposite of what his commerce secretary says? Actually, I think “undermined” was more specific and I wish I had gone with my original wording, but “pulled the rug out” seemed a little less confrontational for the more sensitive Trump supporters.

    Dana (bb0678)

  70. I do not have a Trumpese to English translator, but the quote from Kasspar is unrelated to any Trumpian context that I can discern.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  71. 68. I don’t think your efforts to be less confrontational will bear any fruit, Dana. Go with your gut.

    Gryph (08c844)

  72. Very simple, do we let the fmr deputy us atty for Baltimore determine who has the franchise, I say no, that is George hazel,

    Narciso (dc0f8d)

  73. 69. Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c) — 7/4/2019 @ 10:37 am

    I do not have a Trumpese to English translator,

    I can translate that pretty easily. He’s much easier to decode than some other presidents and politicians. Virtually transparent. (as in teh prhase “transparent lies.” I think most peole wold agree his lies are transparent.)

    Sammy Finkelman (845007)

  74. By the way, I wouldn’t say Trump pulled the rug from under his Cabinet members and government lawyers.

    They didn’t consult their principal, when they should have. Maybe they got pushed too much by the lawyers on the other side. But they didn’t.

    The word “undermined” is completely correct, whether or not they deserve some of the blame for getting ahead of themselves. A few days before officials were telling Trump he would win in court.

    And when the decision came out, all analysis said there wass a way to proceed (at least theoretically)

    So why’d they give up, or tell the court they’d given up, without consulting Trump?

    I also don’t understand why starting the printing was considered the equivalent of abandoning the effort to ask this question.

    Sammy Finkelman (845007)

  75. I can translate that pretty easily. He’s much easier to decode than some other presidents and politicians. Virtually transparent. (as in teh prhase “transparent lies.” I think most peole wold agree his lies are transparent.)

    You don’t need much translation for Donald Trump, nothing is mysterious, it’s gibberish, but not clever. It’s the Trumpists who twist the gibberish into something else, some deeper meaning with a Crackerjack decoder and then back into English.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  76. The interesting thing is that Donald Trump had kind words for Jimmy Carter, who said recently that Donald trump didn’t actually win in 2016 but was put in office because Russia interfered.

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/06/28/jimmy_carter_donald_trump_is_an_illegitimate_president.html

    As told by USa TODAY’s Susan Page:

    Susan Page
    @SusanPage

    NEW: Former president Jimmy Carter says a full investigation “would show that Trump didn’t actually win the election in 2016….He was put into office because the Russians interfered.” Does that mean he’s an illegitimate president? “Based on what I said, which I can’t retract.”

    9:36 AM – Jun 28, 2019

    Trump’s response:

    https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/450990-trump-dismisses-jimmy-carter-criticism-as-a-democrat-talking-point

    “Look, he was a nice man. He was a terrible president,” Trump told reporters in Japan during the Group of 20 summit.

    “He’s a Democrat. And it’s a typical talking point. He’s loyal to the Democrats. And I guess you should be,” he added. “As everybody now understands, I won not because of Russia, not because of anybody but myself.”

    Sammy Finkelman (845007)


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