Patterico's Pontifications

6/27/2019

Thinking about the Dem Debate, Part 2: Thursday

Filed under: General — JVW @ 4:22 pm



[guest post by JVW]

Tonight comes the second group of ten Democrats who will debate each other to win the love and admiration of party activists who will select one of them to face President Trump in just about sixteen months from now. Following the procedure established last night, I want to place each of these candidates in the context of someone whom many (if not most) of us might have encountered in high school. So without further ado, here we go (once again, listed alphabetically by last name):

Michael Bennett – His family moved into town just before his senior year, and he pretty much kept to himself and left no record of having accomplished anything. Sat next to you in Chemistry II, but you don’t recall having more than maybe six verbal exchanges with him the entire year.

Joe Biden – Quarterback of the varsity football team that finished with a 2-8 record. Threw for five touchdown passes with eighteen interceptions and lost seven fumbles. Carried a 2.1 GPA and scored a 16 composite on the ACT, but nevertheless claimed that he was being recruited to play at Dartmouth. Dressed like the cool kids all dressed ten years earlier and drove a slightly run-down muscle car that he worked on himself, even though he didn’t know the first thing about auto mechanics.

Pete Buttigieg – Friendly and earnest fellow whose best friends were all girls. You appointed him refreshments chairman for the homecoming dance, and he bought a really nice cake but forgot to buy any drinks, so you had to give him $30 out of your own pocket so he could go get a couple of cases of Hawaiian Punch which nobody drank. He still says it was the best dance he ever attended and now wants to chair the prom committee.

Kirsten Gillibrand – Her sophomore year she became the lackey/toady for a snobbishly tiresome but oddly popular senior girl, and somehow parlayed that to entry into the “in” crowd after she dropped her Future Farmers of America friends. She promoted herself for homecoming queen quietly behind the scenes, but legend has it she received exactly zero votes. Was frenemies with every other girl in your class.

Kamala Harris – Rumored to have been secretly dating an administrator at the high school, which purportedly landed her positions as the head cheerleader and homecoming queen. Noticeably lacked enthusiasm for a cheerleader, and left the homecoming dance immediately after pictures were taken for the newspaper. Was always assumed to have a bright future ahead of her, even though her grades and test scores were only average.

John Hickenlooper – President of DECA and manager of the school store. Worked hard to keep it profitable even though it was known that everyone stole from it, but was lucky enough to make a high margin on brownies and therefore always break even. Nice enough guy, but extremely awkward to speak to, and had an annoying habit of agreeing with everyone with whom he spoke.

Bernard Sanders – Believed to have been held back two years because he seemed so much older than the rest of his peers. Kept circulating petitions to make school lunches “free” by doubling the price on the Coke machine. Furthermore, wants to provide “free” pencils and notebook paper by doubling the price on the Coke machine, and to have yearbooks distributed for “free,” subsidized by doubling the price on the Coke machine. Also wants the Coke machine replaced with water fountains which are healthier and better for the environment, as well as being free. Wrote an outraged op-ed in the school newspaper declaring the concept of a valedictorian was imperialist and should be abolished. A group of disaffected freshmen worships him.

Eric Swalwell – You had honestly never heard of this guy until the day he called the principal an asshole to his face and became a legend in his own mind just because a few popular kids chuckled. You quickly realized he was of extremely limited intelligence, and to this day you don’t know or care what happened to him.

Marianne Williamson – Cute chick who read Jonathan Livingston Seagull and listened to Dan Fogelberg, whose music she thought had really, really deep meaning. Believed strongly in using crystals for health and healing. You wanted to like her, but her thoughts were so banal and silly that you limited yourself to smiling and waving at her when you saw her in the hall. Spent most of her time in the art studio making stained glass doodads and painting rainbows and peace signs.

Andrew Yang – Fun guy who was excessively nerdy but usually made you laugh. Always had some off-the-wall scheme that he insisted would work if people would just “break out of their paradigms” and give it a try. Ignored by the jocks, the partiers, the pretty people, and the go-getters, but managed to become a success in business, even if many of his ideas continued to be risible.

So that’s it. I don’t think that I will watch this one either, so I’ll be interested in hearing what you all have to say.

– JVW

137 Responses to “Thinking about the Dem Debate, Part 2: Thursday”

  1. It’s Night 2 of Democratic Debate Bingo!

    Visit this page to generate and print your own randomized Bingo card, or go here to play along online during the debates.

    If you didn’t win last night, don’t worry – tonight’s cash prizes are DOUBLED!

    Dave (1bb933)

  2. I don’t understand why Swalwell is running; he’s reasonably effective in the House and would do more good if he stayed there. (I’m writing this from inside his Congressional district).

    I don’t understand why Hickenlooper is running for President rather than Senate; for any of the Democrats to achieve their great visions, they need to retake the Senate and eject Mitch McConnell from the leadership, and Gardner’s up for re-election and vulnerable. Why not run for that seat? And why should I, as a Democratic party voter, be willing to trust your judgment if you won’t prioritize that?

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  3. Hilarious, JVW.

    mg (8cbc69)

  4. aphrael, I think that so many people are running because the lesson of 2016 is that anything can happen and we can no longer just expect the same-old same-old to emerge from the primaries.

    I am intrigued that Tulsi Gabbard was apparently the most searched name last night and that she won plaudits from libertarians and the Drudge crowd for her performance. Granted, neither group is going to play a prominent role in the Dem primaries, but if she makes it to the next debate all bets might be off. Aloha means “I love you” too, you know.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  5. Simply cannot believe this garish set was agreed to by the DNC and greenlighted by NBC.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  6. aloha is used in departing, as well…

    mg (8cbc69)

  7. Simply cannot believe this garish set was agreed to by the DNC and greenlighted by NBC.

    Despite their artistic pretensions, Democrats aren’t generally known for sober-minded taste in these sort of things. Here is how P.J. O’Rourke described the Dems’ 1988 Convention stage in Parliament of Whores:

    There was an overblown podium that could be moved up and down to make Michael Dukakis look shorter. The convention’s production designers thought, according to Maureen Dowd of the New York Times, that red, white and blue would look “cheap” on television. Therefore, they painted this vast ziggurat salmon, eggshell and azure. A nice patriotic touch.

    Same team must have done this stage.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  8. The ying and the Yang of it: respect the viewers who’ve invited you into their living rooms:

    “We usually require a tie at this table… if you don’t have one we can get you one.” – Doyle Lonnegan [Robert Shaw] ‘The Sting’ 1973

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  9. JoeyBee claps like my grandfather… who has been dead 35 years.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  10. I’m following the debate on Twitter by reading reactions to what the candidates apparently said. Did Kamala Harris really insinuate that the government puts bread on our table?

    JVW (54fd0b)

  11. Ol’JoeyBee want to keep ‘ya alive so you keep payin’ into Social Security.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  12. 10/10 universal healthcare for illegal aliens

    Dave (1bb933)

  13. Is Hickenlooper wearing a toupee?

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  14. Biden seems to have problem raising his hand. Or perhaps it’s a hearing issue. Still, no sign of a scar from his brain surgery.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  15. IOW, Dole without the valor and lucky to tally up mid 100 EVs

    urbanleftbehind (82d2e3)

  16. BINGO!

    Dave (1bb933)

  17. Right-wing Twitter is lit-up with incredulity that Democrats are all on record wanting open borders and free health care regardless of immigration status, as if that might be a really, really, difficult thing to pull off. There’s still a long way to go until the election, but my Lord, is that party self-destructing right before our eyes?

    JVW (54fd0b)

  18. What the hell is the matter w/JoeyBee’s feeble right arm? Does he want the moderator’s attention or just have to go? There’s an Ensure break at the top of the hour.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  19. Much more talk on immigration in this debate.

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  20. @18. It is pretty amazing to watch.

    Predict a Trump-Haley ticket for the win. She’ll bail out of the Boeing BoD w/t plane problem and parachute into the VEEP spot. Pence’s act is old and his usefulness minimal anymore.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  21. Shots fired

    Dave (1bb933)

  22. JoeyBee: if you be explainin’ – you be losin’.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  23. Predict a Trump-Haley ticket for the win.

    I will seriously consider voting for that ticket. Then I’ll hope that President Trump decides he’s bored with Washington life, hangs it up, and heads back to Florida.

    It sounds like this debate has turned into a real hey-nonny-nonny and a hach-ach-ha.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  24. If Nikki runs with him she’s dead to me.

    Dave (1bb933)

  25. Gillibrand won’t shut up…

    Dave (1bb933)

  26. I would think the ratings for this would be through the roof if it was televised across central america.

    mg (8cbc69)

  27. Sounds like Sen. Gillibrand let out a whopper on abortion. It appears that somehow her echo chamber is smaller than that of even Kamala Harris or Elizabeth Warren. Fascinating.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  28. If Nikki runs with him she’s dead to me.

    Expand your imagination: she could be the Calvin Coolidge to Trump’s Warren Harding.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  29. I really wish one of them would take a page out of Trump’s playbook and promise that Canada will pay the bill for their signature issue.

    Dave (1bb933)

  30. Robert VerBruggen – @RAVerBruggen

    A four-hour Marianne Williamson vs. Donald Trump debate is what America really deserves.

    7:26 PM – 27 Jun 2019

    JVW (54fd0b)

  31. @25. She’s toast if she stays at Boeing.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  32. When you’ve lost the lunatic left in your own party:

    Sen. Mike Gravel – @MikeGravel

    “What’s the one issue you’ll focus on as president?”

    “Defeating Donald Trump.”

    Joe Biden is an idiot.

    7:28 PM – 27 Jun 2019

    JVW (54fd0b)

  33. Nah, we need to get Trump into a bidding war with the guy who wants to mail us checks every month.

    Dave (1bb933)

  34. Ramesh Ponnuru – @RameshPonnuru

    Assault-weapons confiscation Swallwell is defending is the spot in the Venn diagram where political impossibility and practical uselessness intersect.

    7:35 PM – 27 Jun 2019

    JVW (54fd0b)

  35. First, I love your description of Bernie.

    Second, the last decade has changed both Parties: For example, the left’s indignation after Joe Wilson yelled “You lie!” when Obama said ObamaCare would not cover illegals (it did). Yet as Dave noted above, every one of tonight’s Democratic candidates promised illegals would get healthcare.

    DRJ (15874d)

  36. ‘How do I make this about me muses The Donald???’ I’ll FedEx Yang one of my Trump Ties.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  37. Pin pulled; grenade tossed: Maddow trips up Biden w/last question.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  38. This telecast is crying out for Oprah.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  39. First, I love your description of Bernie.

    Thanks DRJ. I probably spent the most time on that one, and it went through the greatest number of iterations.

    And you’re right: a whole lot of then-scandalized progressives should acknowledge that Rep. Wilson was right all along.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  40. Yes, good post, JVW, and the Bernie paragraph was the crown jewel among many gems.

    Which one is Tracy Flick? Tulsi Gabbard? There’s always at least one Tracy Flick.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  41. Very unimpressive bunch tonight.

    First time I’ve seen Buttigieg on TV – he’s intelligent and well-spoken, too bad he’s a lib.

    Biden seemed out of it at times and seriously underperformed IMO. Harris really went for the jugular, and I don’t think she got the worst of it.

    Dave (1bb933)

  42. Which one is Tracy Flick? Tulsi Gabbard? There’s always at least one Tracy Flick.

    Nah, it’s Gillibrand, only Gillibrand is an even less-likable version.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  43. Fogelberg and healing crystals……My vote is hers to lose!

    harkin (58d012)

  44. Hilarious. Except Mayor Pete was friends with all the “fat chicks” in HS. The Cheerleaders had nothing to do with him.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  45. So everyone in the leftist party is now an open borders, international communist? They aren’t even bothering to hide it anymore. How interesting.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  46. Harris is tracy flick with an Indian accent.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  47. What’s astounding is there are no “Moderates” among the serious D candidates. Biden signed on to every crazy Leftist idea. Bernie was surrounded by a lot of “me toos” Warren, booker, Harris, Mayor Pete, Bennett, etc.

    Free everything, open borders, no Tariffs, Paris accords, no fossil fuels, war with Putin, and lots of Gun Control. AND every D candidate if elected will come to your house with a Doctor and give you a free abortion.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  48. Never trumpers must be thinking: “Hey I can agree with 50% of this”.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  49. 11. JVW (54fd0b) — 6/27/2019 @ 6:36 pm

    Did Kamala Harris really insinuate that the government puts bread on our table?

    It was a play on words (instead pf having a food fight) and also what every politician says (because they say the government is responsible for he economy)

    One candidate said Trump is bad because he rates the economy by the value of stock in the stoock market while (poor people don’t own stock o something like that) and people should talk about unemployment – people have two jobs and it should be possible to have a roof and clothing with one job. I think Kamala Harris said the latter.

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  50. Youse guys don’ know nuffin from nuffin. Trump has so destroyed the Republican brand that the Presidency will be a safe Democrat seat for the next fifty years. All the Democratic nominee needs to win is the Democratic nomination, and that’s by being as far to the left as possible.

    nk (dbc370)

  51. Trump has so destroyed the Republican brand that the Presidency will be a safe Democrat seat for the next fifty years.

    And Bill weld is helping speed the process.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  52. Seriously though, how does open borders and free health care for illegal immigrants put Wisconsin, Michigan, Iowa, Ohio, or Pennsylvania back into the Democrats’ column? Do Dems just expect that they will win Texas, Arizona, and Florida on that platform and can thus just write off the upper Midwest?

    JVW (54fd0b)

  53. 48. rcocean (1a839e) — 6/27/2019 @ 8:58 pm

    . Biden signed on to every crazy Leftist idea.

    Except busing ordered by the Department of Education several decades ago. He said that wouldn’t have stopped Kamala Harris from attending her elementary school because there that was a decision made by the local city council. But busing isn’t an active issue now.

    None of them had a good answer as to what they would do if the Supreme Court overturned Roe v Wade, but it wasn’t a good question. One (Bernie Sanders I think) said that while he was against packing the Supreme Court, it wouldn’t be unconstitutional to rotate justices off and on it. Sounds like something that’s been discussed somewhere. And he wouldn’t name anyone to the Supreme Court that wasn’t committed to Roe v Wade.

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  54. The Iowa that flipped even after Mollie Tibbetts? The upper midwest is sometimes a loud bark but usually a soft bite on that issue for several reasons – paucity of scut farm labor, bigger issues with blacks and refugee groups (Somalis, Hmong). They’re betting on the lany theory that black voters in those states wont have crime bill Hillary to punish by not showing up.

    urbanleftbehind (82d2e3)

  55. I can’t believe everyone isn’t supporting the guy who wants to send us a check for $1K every month.

    How cool would that be?

    /sarc

    Dave (1bb933)

  56. NJRob still not willing to supply his definition of “leftist,” lol.

    Leviticus (fc1e8b)

  57. ‘NJRob still not willing to supply his definition of “leftist,” lol.’
    Leviticus (fc1e8b) — 6/27/2019 @ 9:57 pm

    Shouldn’t we nail down the definition of “man” and “woman” first?

    Munroe (3d09c0)

  58. Leviticus,

    did you read my post? I think what I said was pretty clear and based on the candidates running for President.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  59. Off-topic but at least about Democrats, and a genuine and pleasant surprise: House clears border aid bill after Pelosi bows to McConnell: The overwhelming vote in favor of the bill comes after the speaker fought with Republicans and members of her own caucus:

    The House cleared a $4.6 billion emergency aid package Thursday to address the humanitarian crisis at the southern border, sending the bill to President Donald Trump for his signature after Speaker Nancy Pelosi bowed to Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell.

    The 305-102 vote in favor of the legislation came after Pelosi fought Republicans and members of her own caucus to push for additional language to protect migrant children as part of the package, but then was forced to take up the Senate bill, which didn’t include such restrictions.

    ….

    In a stunning move, Pelosi was forced to halt a planned vote earlier Thursday on the House Democrats’ version of the border aid bill as she and her deputies faced a revolt by a group of more than 18 Democratic centrists, who vowed to tank the bill on the floor.

    In a high-profile surrender to end her faceoff with McConnell, Pelosi sent a letter to her caucus explaining her rationale.

    “The children come first. At the end of the day, we have to make sure that the resources needed to protect the children are available,” she wrote. “Therefore, we will not engage in the same disrespectful behavior that the Senate did in ignoring our priorities. In order to get resources to the children fastest, we will reluctantly pass the Senate bill.”

    My take: Politicians on both sides of the aisle are waking up to how thoroughly politically toxic this whole issue can be to any and all of them. It’s the political equivalent now of nerve gas, as dangerous to one side as the other depending on the shifting of the winds.

    She’d been placating, rather than confronting, her caucus’ most extreme elements in a sort of passive sidestep, as if time were unlimited and its passage favored her side. But that was not at all the sense of a substantial majority of her own caucus, so they forced her hand and queued right up to shake hands just this once with the Old Snapping Turtle, who actually had already gotten a clean funding bill through his chamber with bipartisan votes, a bill that came out of the Appropriations Committee with an overwhelmingly biparisan vote of 30-to-1.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  60. The format was far from ideal, but I’ll give the moderators decent marks. They often tried to get candidates to address questions they’d filibustered, and the “show of hands” questions were quite effective and left no room for hedging.

    Dave (1bb933)

  61. @53. Why did 16 weenies lose to Trump in 2016? Same reason 24 weenies will lose to Trump in 2020.

    Even with a little Adolph’s Meat Tenderizer, a Trump Steak beats any weenie, any time.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  62. Best line of the night:

    “My time is up.” – Joe Biden, 6/27/19

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  63. None of the sane ones can win. None of the insane ones either, probably. There is so much fakeness here, Trump is going to eat them all alive.

    JRH (4be6f7)

  64. also, hilarious post.

    JRH (4be6f7)

  65. @53 I think the Dems are hoping for their own version of Trump to win in 2020. They are content to let the rust belt working class go in favor of someone extreme who will (they tell themselves) increase turnout, excite the base. It’s the Trumpification of the Democratic Party, in mirror image. Or the AOC-ization, if you prefer. The lunatics are running things. These effing idiots have no clue. They will live to see Trump nominate another SCOTUS justice or two and forget that it was their own damn fault.

    JRH (4be6f7)

  66. Well, I didn’t watch either of these debates, because I have no intention of voting for a Democrat. I never have since I was eligible to vote in 1980. Not at the state or federal level, I mean. At the city and county level, oftentimes down here there are only Democrats on the ballot, and this congressional district has never elected a Republican since it was created in 1913–in one-fourth of the elections since then a Republican didn’t even bother to run.

    But I’m in a quandary now. I will not vote for any Democrat, however I will not vote for Trump or any Republican who sucks up to him. Do not try to lump me in with those Neo-Con Never Trumpers, who are complete idiots. My revulsion is far deeper and more profound than theirs.

    I’ve been reading a lot of Harold Bloom lately, along with Ralph Waldo Emerson, Henry David Thoreau and Walt Whitman. It has left me wondering, what happened to classical scholarship and the original American spirit? Both seem to have been utterly destroyed over the last forty years or so, within my lifetime. This is not the America I grew up in as a child.

    The Democratic party has gone off the deep end, but they haven’t yet fallen as far as the Republican party has under Trump. I refused to vote for him in 2016, because I saw him for what he is from the beginning–a total fraud. The Republicans who support him have exposed themselves as total frauds as well.

    I am a man without a party, because I can’t vote for either in this duopoly. So I’m waiting to see who emerges as the nominee in the Libertarian party. If he or she is an actual conservative-libertarian, then I’ll vote Libertarian. If not, then I’ll do what I did in 1992. Then it was G. H. W. Bush vs. Bill Clinton. The Libertarian candidate was Dick Brodie. Even though I voted for Bush in 1988, because I thought he would continue the Reagan revolution, I would not vote for him again after I found out I was wrong. Voting for Clinton was unimaginable. Brodie was unacceptable. So I asked for a paper ballot and wrote myself in for president.

    You can do that, you know. Ask for a paper ballot and write yourself in for any elected office. It’s a futile endeavor, I know. I only got one vote out of millions in a landslide loss. It was a protest vote, and at least it was registered. Discounted obviously, but registered nonetheless.

    I am a classical liberal, now called a libertarian. I believe in liberty, which is the absence of tyranny, and freedom, which is individual rights. I believe in free people living freely and engaging freely in an open market for the free exchange of ideas, goods and services.

    But then utopia is nowhere, and dystopia is everywhere. Thus, I cannot support either party, because neither espouses these ideals and principles.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  67. Again, the winner by default – Trump.
    Get used to it.

    mg (8cbc69)

  68. Was any spanish lingo blurted out last night?

    mg (8cbc69)

  69. Precious little Harris was a fraud even last night, what she will deliver is mourning in America.

    Narciso (30eb7e)

  70. The reality 1844, people voted for the liberty candidate instead of clay, they got the mexicam war and within a generation the civil war, you always make a choice even when you dont chose your guy

    Narciso (30eb7e)

  71. The dems are like the British labour party circa 1983 full nationalization full disarmament read a rant by Salman rushdie about magpie Maggie for flavoring, there were other options David steels alliance he was preselected in 2017 for covering up sexual assaults and his partner David owen became a lord and proposed that feckless peace plan with cigar store Indian vance

    Narciso (30eb7e)

  72. Some candidates admittedly are more feckless than others say McCain in 08, who checked out and left the heavy lifting to others,

    Narciso (30eb7e)

  73. Well, if we had William Jennings Bryant i/o William McKinley, WJB might not have given two spits about losing a ship in Havana harbor, then there’d be no legal dichotomy distinguishing the external hydration of one’s feet in South Florida.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  74. #71

    The lesson in 1844 for freedom-loving Northern Whigs, then, was suck it up and live with slavery. Um, that’s quite an argument.

    I really wonder how you and some others would be talking had the candidate been Jeb. You’d probably be openly backing the Trump third party noisily promoted by the Trump News Network.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  75. Likely he wouldn’t have sent a boat there, wetfoot/dryfoot was a classic Clinton equivocation, like I didnt inhale

    Narciso (30eb7e)

  76. No vote for clay, that would have prevented more slave holding territories gah, I would have probably voted for jeb and watch him get beat like a red headed step child

    Narciso (30eb7e)

  77. Its still a question of who wins and what they pick, Adam’s wins in 1828, no taney for treasury no us supreme court and probably no dred Scott in that same way.

    Narciso (30eb7e)

  78. With Democrats like mencken Said ‘you get what you want, good and hard’ with Republicans not so easy.

    Narciso (30eb7e)

  79. Narciso,

    I tend to think the big trends in history happen, even if certain triggers don’t. If a President Clay does not fight the Mexicans for Texas, the Democrat that gets elected after him does. Remember, the first GOP Presifdential candidate was Fremont, who was a reckless backer of manifest destiny.

    Abolitionism wasn’t going away. Neither was the Southern elite’s economic dependence on slavery.

    Appalled (c9622b)

  80. In California they dissolved the people and elected another, there is no opposition. That matters and they wont be, you can do anything to them and they’ll cry out for more.

    Narciso (30eb7e)

  81. Fremont was a proto-Lincoln and being greatly more maniacal in support of Abolition probably would have had no compunction to spare his Southern TWANLOC – Andersonvilles for Dixie’s POWs AND its non-combatants would be the picture under Concentration Camp in the dictionary.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  82. 75-That must be some potent ganja your inhaling to even consider Jeb would have a chance at a nomination for president. A billion wouldn’t get him elected toilet cleaner.

    mg (8cbc69)

  83. Hey Buchanan had all the credentials, who does that sound like,

    Narciso (30eb7e)

  84. Yes, Biden said he was against Busing in the late 70s and early 80s. That was the popular opinion. of course, he was against Bork and any conservative judge that would have actually ruled against busing. I’d love to know how active he was in Congress on the issue or whether it was all campaign rhetoric. I’d suspect the later.

    If you listen to campaign rhetoric McCain was actually for a border fence and border security. Which of course, was a lie.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  85. Well, if we had William Jennings Bryant i/o William McKinley, WJB might not have given two spits about losing a ship in Havana harbor, then there’d be no legal dichotomy distinguishing the external hydration of one’s feet in South Florida.

    Excerpt from The Secret History Of The United States:

    Subsequent to the Spanish-American War of 1898, the United States and Spain fought five more wars over possession of the island of Puerto Rico. Spain won all of them.

    nk (dbc370)

  86. 75 – lol Jeb. Those Hillary SCOTUS justices would currently be dancing around the flames of a constitution burn w Ginsberg, Kagan, Sotomayor and Breyer.

    __ _

    58 – “Shouldn’t we nail down the definition of “man” and “woman” first?”

    The Left is tearing itself in half over that one as we speak:

    https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=13386
    _

    harkin (0db537)

  87. I doubt that would be, Spanish was in its sick man of Europe phase, but Germany might have taken the phillipines, they were prowling around there.

    Narciso (30eb7e)

  88. “Subsequent to the Spanish-American War of 1898, the United States and Spain fought five more wars over possession of the island of Puerto Rico. Spain won all of them.”

    Wut

    harkin (0db537)

  89. 86, one can wish, no Luis G, no AOC…Franco might have been a good elixir had the mother country still been in the expanse of mid-century

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  90. That’s ahistorical, now weyler may well have crushed the revolt in Cuba with the reconcentraciones, Puerto Rico wasnf going anywhere.

    Narciso (30eb7e)

  91. ..in possession of the island in the expanse (1939 – 1975) mid-Century

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  92. In that capacity the phillipines might have faced the maxim guns like the hereros in namibia

    Narciso (30eb7e)

  93. The mother country was being racked with anarchism, read the alienist followup

    Narciso (30eb7e)

  94. Wanna think about it? Spain WON and MADE AMERICA KEEP Puerto Rico.

    Man, you guys sure are a tough audience.

    nk (dbc370)

  95. No that doesn’t work in any alternate universe, they had no real interest in that isle one way or another.

    Narciso (30eb7e)

  96. Trump should put Puerto Rico on waivers, if he could get a couple cases of Rum, I’d do it.

    mg (8cbc69)

  97. The same thing with Minnesota and Canada. For the last 150 years, the United States have been placing the U.S./Canada border markers on the Northern border of Missouri and specially-formed detachments of Canadian komitaji have been putting them back on the Northern border of Minnesota.

    nk (dbc370)

  98. 93, that may be, but speaking of cinematic presentation, I dig the last stanza of The Last Samurai, when the modernized Japanese army breaks out the golden gatling guns, overseen in the field by none other than Tony Goldwyn playing to type.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  99. 71. Narciso (30eb7e) — 6/28/2019 @ 6:12 am

    The reality 1844, people voted for the liberty candidate instead of clay, they got the Mexican war and within a generation the civil war, you always make a choice even when you don’t chose your guy

    Sounds like the primary race this week for Queens District attorney – you had the extreme radical anti-law enforcement candidate; you had the organization candidate who was getting close to some of her opponent’s issues, Queens Borough President Melinda Katz, who is term limited as of 2021; and you had the good candidate endorsed by a newspaper or two, Gregory L. Lasak. He got about 15%.

    Nobody got 40% but there’s no runoff in this race. Melinda Katz narrowly lost, although absentee and affidavit ballots still need to be examined and counted and maybe there’ll be a recount, which she
    is unlikely to win.

    One candidate pulled out at the last minute and endorsed Melinda Katz, but it was too late. It’s Alexandria Ocasio’s Cortez’s victory over Joe Crowley all over again. Governor Andrew Cuomo said it’s the result of low turnout – he won AOC’s district by three times the vote os hios opponent.

    https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2019/06/25/queens-district-attorney-results-2/

    You could detect the surprise – and also disappointment, because the people familiar with the news seemed to consider this bad news, you could tell that by the way WINS kept updating the results around 10:30 pm the night of Tuesday June 25. By the tone of voice and repeated updates every time another 1% of the Election districts reported.

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  100. Beldar @60.

    My take: Politicians on both sides of the aisle are waking up to how thoroughly politically toxic this whole issue can be to any and all of them. It’s the political equivalent now of nerve gas, as dangerous to one side as the other depending on the shifting of the winds.

    I think it’s what they used to (wrongly) call Social Security – the “third rail” of American politics – you touch it and you die.

    (Unless you’re Donald Trump. He gets an advantage in that almost nobody’s willing to take a logical, consistent position – and if someone does forthrightly argue for some different policy, he almost immediately concedes.)

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  101. 80. Appalled (c9622b) — 6/28/2019 @ 6:52 am

    I tend to think the big trends in history happen, even if certain triggers don’t. If a President Clay does not fight the Mexicans for Texas, the Democrat that gets elected after him does.

    The United States never annexed the Dominican Republic, as President Grant wanted to do in 1870. On the other hand when President Grover Cleveland rejected the annexation of Hawaii in 1893, after a group of Americans had overthrown the monarchy, it was nevertheless annexed in 1898. If a decision is irreversible, the proponents get more than one chance, but they don’t get an unlimited number of them – the proponents may stop trying.

    Abolitionism wasn’t going away. Neither was the Southern elite’s economic dependence on slavery.

    What caused the Civil War was not the prospect of the immediate abolition of slavery, which wasn’t about to happen, nor was it the prospect of fugitive slaves not being returned – as Lincoln asked, how would secession help them with that?

    It was the prospect of being locked out of national office because any supporter of slavery was considered morally repugnant to people outside the South, and they couldn’t not support slavery

    Because freedom of speech on that question in the south had been destroyed. Soon they were to discover that freedom of speech on the question of secession was also lost.

    The people who didn’t want it, though, did succeed in taking the positions that the Southern “Fire-Eatera” had wanted. The true secessionists got their separate country, but they didn’t get the jobs they wanted, by and large.

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  102. narciso @76. I think wetfoot/dryfoot was Jimmy Carter’s policy after the Mariel boatlift. (continued by Reagan and Bush I, all the way through Obama, who ended it very late in his term.)

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  103. 67. Gawain’s Ghost (b25cd1) — 6/28/2019 @ 5:35 am

    So I asked for a paper ballot and wrote myself in for president.

    You can do that, you know.

    I don’t think you can – and have it count as a vote – because, in the general election, you are actually voting for a slate of Electors pledged to the candidate whose name is on the ballot.

    As for the mechanics, that could be different in every state or locality. Many paper ballots now come with a line where you can write in a name. It’s gotten easier because of lawsuits.

    It was a protest vote, and at least it was registered. Discounted obviously, but registered nonetheless.

    Not necessarily for president in a November election. You need to check the law in your state. It could just be counted as spoiled ballot (but these undervotes are counted)

    I believe in free people living freely and engaging freely in an open market for the free exchange of ideas, goods and services.

    In hermetically sealed markets, or not?

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  104. At 98, that should have been “Northern birder of Iowa” not Northern border of Missouri”. Poor Iowa, the forgotten state. I bet none of you guys caught it, either.

    nk (dbc370)

  105. biorder

    nk (dbc370)

  106. no it wasn’t it happened under Clinton, writ large, like elian was writ small,

    narciso (d1f714)

  107. nk @105

    Iowa? Don’t you mean Minnesota?
    ————————————

    Someone who called the Rush Limbaugh show noted that the name Barack Obama was not mentioned in the debate. Rush said that could be because of Biden. I think it’s something bigger.

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  108. narciso @107. Didn’t Jimmy Carter make an agreement with Castro to return Cubana to Cuba?

    Elian Gonzalez concerned child custody when the mother fleeing with her child died but the father was still in Cuba. He was dry foot.

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  109. DRJ — I think a lot of the left’s indignation at Joe Wilson was the fact that he interrupted the state of the union to say what he said, which was a massive violation of decorum and which we believed would not have happened had the President been anyone else (and which we believe would have resulted in a massive angry reaction from the right if the same disrespect had been shown to a Republican president during the state of the union). Saying the same thing in an interview with Fox after the SOTU would not have resulted in nearly the same level of indignation.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  110. > Ask for a paper ballot and write yourself in for any elected office. It’s a futile endeavor, I know. I only got one vote out of millions in a landslide loss.

    you may very well not even have gotten one vote. in order to prevent ‘mickey mouse’ and the like from showing up in election results, many states have rules which say that in order for a write-in vote to be counted, it has to be cast for a candidate who has filed some paperwork to become a ‘qualified write-in’. this is absolutely the case in california.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  111. > I’d love to know how active he was in Congress on the issue or whether it was all campaign rhetoric.

    He repeatedly introduced bills in the Senate to ban the practice.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  112. didn’t matter, sammeh, one might say that Clinton was colluding through greg craig, (that name sounds familiar) and eric holder, in rendering state property, because that’s what children are in Cuba,

    narciso (d1f714)

  113. aphrael (e0cdc9) — 6/28/2019 @ 11:24 am

    The left’s attention to decorum is legendary. I think it’s creatively phrased as “talking truth to power”, and it’s trademarked so only they can use it.

    Munroe (3ecb78)

  114. Joe Wilson should have yelled “Lock Him Up”

    mg (8cbc69)

  115. So how does JoeyBee top Thursday night? Pour $3/gallon gasoline on himself Friday afternoon and strike a match:

    Goes to a Chicago luncheon and says over and over, ‘folks, here’s the deal’ it’s about “the future”– at a Jesse Jackson function– and then ramble about Bobby Kennedy, JFK, MLK, how his city was the only one ‘burning’ back in ’68, what a great guy Barack was… and praise his own support for legislation quilled– in 1974.

    “My time is up.”- Joe Biden, 6/27/19

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  116. it was like the last 15 minutes of animal house, I leave it to who is d day, otto, Bluto and flounder,

    narciso (d1f714)

  117. 114. But most of it was court ordered or consent decrees. That still might be practical, if DOE was considering ordering that in Delaware.

    Sammy Finkelman (385c0e)

  118. narciso The link you gave seems to say wet foot dry foot started in 1995, but what was the policy between 1980 and 1995? Elian Gonzalez went beyond that.

    Sammy Finkelman (385c0e)

  119. Open acceptance, Clinton had been burned by ft Chafee in 1980, he obliged Lawton chiles

    Narciso (30eb7e)

  120. What did Florida Senator Lawton Chiles want? Who was sent back to Castro between 1980 and 1995?

    Sammy Finkelman (385c0e)

  121. Only those in prison in places like atlantam

    Narciso (30eb7e)

  122. Before Castro wouldn’t accept criminals.

    Sammy Finkelman (385c0e)

  123. aphrael 112,

    My point isn’t that Democrats were indignant about Wilson’s outburst. Wilson apologized and members of both parties condemned his heckling. But Democrats were also indignant that anyone would accuse Obama of lying, and now not only does ObamaCare cover illegals … it’s Democratic policy.

    DRJ (15874d)

  124. The law in my state? It’s federal law that anyone can choose to write-in a vote for any candidate, including oneself. If I don’t want to vote for any of the candidates on the ballot, I can write-in whomever I prefer. I know, because I’ve done it. And I’ll do it again, whenever necessary. Yes, writing in myself for president is as ridiculous as writing in Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck, as others have done.

    When I was at UT, there was this guy, Paul Begala, who was running for president of the student council. He kept walking around campus, saying “vote for me,” holding rallies, giving speeches on the steps of the West Mall, and what not. He was very annoying. So we, the students, which in this analogy are the voting public, got together amongst ourselves and decided to write in a cartoon character from the Daily Texan. Calvin won the election with 70% of the vote.

    A cartoon character from a student newspaper overwhelmingly won the election for president of the student council. That happened. Not that it mattered, since a cartoon character obviously cannot hold office, but it did matter, because we made our voice clear–none of the above.

    So don’t pretend to lecture me about voting rights, Sammy. If you are a lawyer, you’re not a very good one, because apparently you don’t know the law. Every voter in America can vote for whomever they choose. Any voter can write-in a vote for any candidate, even a cartoon character.

    I voted for myself once, and perhaps I am a cartoon character, since I only got one vote. But my vote was counted and discounted. It was for none of the above.

    I fully realize it is a futile endeavor. But my vote will be counted, even if it is discounted.

    I believe in freedom and liberty, individual rights. Perhaps you cannot grasp that concept, but then that is more a reflection on you than it is on me. I can and will vote for whomever the hell I choose to vote for. And my vote is for none of the above.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  125. No, Late Sir Gawain, it is you who do not know the law. There is no “federal law that anyone can choose to write-in a vote for any candidate, including oneself”, except maybe in the broadest First Amendment flag-burning sense of “It’s my ballot and I’ll deface it if I want to”.

    In fact, the issue has gone to the U.S. Supreme Court and the court ruled the other way around. From Hawaii or some such place. You can write in whatever you want but it won’t be counted unless your local election laws provide a mechanism for counting it, and no federal law obligates them to have such a mechanism.

    nk (dbc370)

  126. Well, nk, I voted for Calvin in the student council election at UT, and I voted for myself in the presidential election in 1992. I asked for a paper ballot, was given one, and was perfectly free to write in any candidate I chose. There is no federal or state law to prevent me from doing so. Every registered voter can vote for whomever they choose. It’s called freedom in a democratic republic.

    Perhaps you don’t understand the concept any more than Sammy does. I can and will vote for whomever I choose to vote for. I’ve done it before, and I’ll do it again. When neither party nominates a candidate I would vote for, I will write someone else in. That is my right, and I can and will exercise it at my discretion, because I am a free man.

    I submit to no party, because I will not be subjugated, certainly not by mob mentality. I can and will vote for whomever I damn well choose. I could choose to not vote, sit out the election, but that is not an option for me. I always vote, and in the elections when none of the above is acceptable, I write in the candidate of my choice.

    Popular opinion means nothing to me. I don’t follow the pack like dog. I am an independent individualist, a free American, and I do what I do, precisely because I am free. I can and will vote for whomever I choose to vote for, a cartoon character or myself. I have that right, that freedom, and I exercise it at my will.

    I choose not to vote for any Democrat. I choose not to vote for any Trumpublican. Perhaps the Libertarian party will nominate someone I would vote for, but that’s questionable. Either way, I will vote in the election, and I will cast my ballot for whomever I choose. I’ve done it before, and I’ll do it again. I’ll do it in every election, regardless of the outcome. Because I am free to vote for whomever I damn well please.

    Show me any statutory federal or state law that says I can’t. There is none.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  127. I’m sorry to be this blunt, Gawain’s Ghost, but that’s absolute nonsense, a completely inaccurate statement of the law of the land.

    (a) The US Supreme Court, in a 6-3 opinion written by Justice White (joined by Justices Rehnquist, O’Connor, Scalia, Souter, and Thomas, over the objections of Justices Kennedy, Blackmun, and Stevens) held that Hawaii’s *absolute ban* on write-in candidates was constitutional.

    https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/504/428/

    (b) In California, as in many states, the election code prohibits the counting of write-in votes for candidates unless they have met certain other requirements:

    > 13541. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, no name written upon a ballot in any election shall be counted for an office or nomination unless the candidate whose name has been written on the ballot has complied with Part 3 (commencing with Section 8600) of Division 8.

    > 8600. Every person who desires to be a write-in candidate and have his or her name as written on the ballot of an election counted for a particular office shall file:
    > (a) A statement of write-in candidacy which contains the following information: ….
    > (b) The requisite number of signatures on the nomination papers, if any, required to Sections 8062, 10220, and 10510 …

    This section of state code has survived every legal challenge ever mounted against it.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  128. Furthermore, again using California as an example because it’s the state I’m most familiar with, in general elections, there isn’t even a space to write in a candidate for statewide races, state legislative races, or congress. there’s no way you can write in a name for those offices in the general election.

    *That* law withstood a constitutional challenge, too.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  129. Illinois has pretty much the same law as California, aphrael, however the candidate must file his statement in every county.

    I wrote in McMullin in 2016 after checking that he had registered in Cook County. In the runoff for Mayor of Chicago earlier this year, I just stayed home.

    nk (dbc370)

  130. Now, if you want to argue that this *shouldn’t* be the law, and that there are very good small-d-democracy reasons why such laws are bulls**t, I can get behind that (although I’ll draw an exception for runoff elections, and note that the CA general elections are technically runoffs — if you want to write someone in, write them in the primary. :))

    I’d also support a ‘none of the above’ option on most ballots.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  131. In 2016, California had several “registered write-in candidates” for president who had submitted full slates of electors.

    McMullin was among them, and I wrote in his name electronically, using the same spinny gizmo you use to select candidates who are actually on the ballot. He got a total of about 40k votes in California.

    Dave (1bb933)

  132. Some states allow write-in votes for anyone:

    Thinking of casting a write-in vote for president? It may not be counted.

    You can write in anyone on the ballot in 10 states and Washington, D.C., the Washington Post reports. But you will face more hurdles if you want your write-in to count in other states.

    Eight states don’t even have a line for write-ins, according to the article. Thirty-two states won’t count write-ins unless a candidate is registered with the state before the election.

    The jurisdictions allowing write-ins for anyone are: Alabama, the District of Columbia, Iowa, Mississippi, New Hampshire, New Jersey, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont and Wyoming.

    Texas doesn’t count write-in votes unless the candidate is declared.

    DRJ (15874d)

  133. 128. Gawain’s Ghost (b25cd1) — 6/28/2019 @ 4:16 pm

    It’s federal law that anyone can choose to write-in a vote for any candidate, including oneself.

    Where is there such a law, and for what offices? I do think there seems to be some sort of rule that a write-in vote must be possible. This was very hard when they had the lever voting machines, but that was a way.

    But here we are talking about voting for president. In a November presidential election, you do not vote for president, but for electors pledged to the person whose name is on the ballot. If you vote for yourself, you’re at most just voting for yourself as an Elector, and just one when there’s a minimum of three.

    I fully realize it is a futile endeavor. But my vote will be counted, even if it is discounted.

    Not necessarily. In that UT student election, it was? By the way, didn’t Paul Begala later on got to work for Bill Clinton?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Begala

    Paul Edward Begala (born May 12, 1961) is an American political consultant and political commentator, best known as the former adviser to President Bill Clinton.

    Begala was a chief strategist for the 1992 Clinton–Gore campaign, which carried 33 states and made Clinton the first Democrat to occupy the White House in twelve years. As counselor to the President in the Clinton White House, he coordinated policy, politics, and communications.

    Begala gained national prominence as part of the political consulting team Carville and Begala, along with fellow Clinton advisor James Carville.

    I believe in freedom and liberty, individual rights. Perhaps you cannot grasp that concept, but then that is more a reflection on you than it is on me. I can and will vote for whomever the hell I choose to vote for. And my vote is for none of the above… While at the University of Texas, Begala was a candidate for student government president. However, he finished second to a write-in campaign for Hank the Hallucination, a character from the campus comic strip Eyebeam. Following his loss, Begala wrote a tongue-in-cheek complaint for the Daily Texan, arguing “I cannot help but feel Hank’s platform is illusory at best…I must say that the candidate himself lacks substance”. Begala was declared the winner, following a ruling that imaginary characters could not hold the position.[3]

    Why didn’t people vote for anyone who actually could win?

    BTW: Does Wikipedia have the name of the winning cartoon character wrong?

    Sammy Finkelman (0d0ca8)


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