Patterico's Pontifications

6/16/2019

Mexico Takes on Trump and Immigration

Filed under: Immigration,International — DRJ @ 4:03 pm



[Headlines from DRJ]

ReutersMexico detains 791 undocumented migrants, National Guard starts to patrol southern border:

Mexico’s National Migration Institute (INM) said in a statement late on Saturday that 791 foreign nationals were found in four trucks stopped in the eastern state of Veracruz, confirming earlier reports about a mass detention.

The apprehension came as Mexico steps up efforts to reduce a surge of migrants toward the U.S. border under pressure from U.S. President Donald Trump, who vowed to hit Mexican goods with tariffs if Mexico does not do more to stem illegal immigration.

As part of those efforts, Mexico has pledged to deploy 6,000 National Guard members along its border with Guatemala.

I like this. Marc Thiessen says it shows “Trump’s Mexican-Tariff Move Was A True Victory.” It will be a victory when the Mexican government makes it official policy that lasts more than 45 or 90 days.

UPDATE / RELATED: Record number of African migrants coming to Mexican border. Yemenis, too. Sometimes they are called special interest aliens.

— DRJ

60 Responses to “Mexico Takes on Trump and Immigration”

  1. 691 stopped as 6910 walk past.

    lany (5d313c)

  2. I updated the post.

    DRJ (15874d)

  3. It wasn’t really the tariff – it was the threat to slow down the border (which he tariff would have done – it could even be 1% and it would create alarge number of problems. It would interfere with the supply chain.

    The previous agreement, back around March, was stimulated by Trump’s threat to close the border

    Sammy Finkelman (d542b2)

  4. Take heart; was in line at a CVS the other day when the customer ahead started speaking and the cashier responded firmly, “I don’t speak Spanish.”

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  5. And if he did, at full guey/cabron/pinche glory… then what, old man? I like the cut of your jib, but its snide rote anti-Mex crap like this as to why I cant have the 24 hour disco station on pre-set.

    urbanleftbehind (37a780)

  6. @5. It’s discourteous if not outright lazy to even effort to speak the prevailing language of the country you’ve chosen to live in and those who refuse to enable same deserve accolades. My great grandfather was German; my uncle, from Wales, but neither walked around Pittsburgh speaking their native tongue attempting to get goods and services; to survive and thrive, they learned English.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  7. Had your great grandfather lived in Milwaukee, he probably would have had no need to speak English. Had your uncle stayed in Wales, he would have needed to speak English most of the time.

    Your ignorance of how immigrants acculturate is truly Trumpian in its extent. And if it’s not ignorance, then it’s merely malice.

    Kishnevi (779a41)

  8. Meanwhile this struck me as a good image of Trumpian policymaking.
    http://lifeinisrael.blogspot.com/2019/06/picture-of-day_16.html

    Kishnevi (779a41)

  9. Take heart; was in line at a CVS the other day when the customer ahead started speaking and the cashier responded firmly, “I don’t speak Spanish.”

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 6/16/2019 @ 5:02 pm

    I sure hope this “take heart” wasn’t directed at me because I would always try to help someone communicate if I can, whether they speak Spanish, French, German, ASL, or even New York City-ese.

    DRJ (15874d)

  10. Well we’re reverting to Mexico’s policy before 14, when an army bayonet was the welcome now since daca they figured you could rush the gate

    Narciso (9cdaa3)

  11. @7 Don’t know about Millwaukee, but my father told me his parents forbid speaking German at anytime, and his parents never spoke in public unless they could use simple English. They considered themselves Americans, not visitors from Germany.

    iowan2 (d4dcd5)

  12. 11, was that before or after the now 2nd most famous Zimmerman slipped up?

    urbanleftbehind (37a780)

  13. @7. Nonsense. Can’t speak to the Milwaukee on the 1920s but in Pgh., they had to learn English, to conduct commerce, paperwork and especially to communicate and work in the steel mills. As for Wales, they speak Welsh in Wales– which my late father could still quote from my uncle’s dinner table prattle and bedtime tales and he made a point to learn English — become an American citizen and a union official at J&L– forging steel to fight the Axis.

    Learning the language of the country you’ve chosen to live in is a plus. Making excuses not to is a crutch.

    @9.Correct; generalized.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  14. Seeing as the border is allowing people as far as China and Bangladesh with many otms that first go through the Darien camp, there is the concern.

    Narciso (9cdaa3)

  15. @11. Sounds like the same rule-of-thumb for my Pittsburgh clan.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  16. I guess Chicago relative to western PA was screwed from get-go…in the early 1900s, USS’ South Works plant (4 uncles plus my dad at a subsidiary short haul RR may he RIP) had notices and safety warnings in 18 languages

    urbanleftbehind (37a780)

  17. As ulb implied, the main stimulus to the decline of German were the two World Wars. Public schools taught in German and newspapers were published in German well into the first half of the 20th century. Here’s a quickie history of one town.
    http://mentalfloss.com/article/13026/wisconsin-town-didnt-learn-english-five-generations

    According to Wikipedia, Wisconsin even managed to develop its own dialect of German, which is still in use.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisconsin_German

    Kishnevi (779a41)

  18. @13. Postscript, in fact, among the fonder memories of my late father and uncle is, when as kids, they’d, say to us- or to their wives and themselves- almost every evening: “amser-gwely.” – or as we’d pronounce it, “Sir-quilly.”

    That’s Welsh.

    For ‘bedtime.’

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  19. Still misses the fact that the language of the Sassanach conquerors has been the language of daily life in Wales for a long time, and your uncle would have needed to speak English even if he never left Cymru.

    Wikipedia

    English is widely used throughout the country and is the native language of most people in the South and the North East of the country; in the West and North, Welsh is the dominant native language. Nevertheless, there are a number of communities throughout the country to which these generalisations do not apply. For example, despite being located in the overwhelmingly English-speaking city of Swansea, 45% of Mawr’s residents speak Welsh as their native language.

    According to the 2011 census, Welsh is spoken by 19% of the population and English is spoken by 99% of the population.[7][2]

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Wales

    Kishnevi (779a41)

  20. @19. 2011? Howzabout 1890. Save you electrons and don’t try to tell me what I know and lived.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  21. Even in 1890, your uncle would have learned English before he left Wales, unless he came to America as a kid.
    What you “know and lived” is actually atypical. And one can still know English, but prefer to use Spanish or other birth language when discussing important stuff like how to take medications.

    Kishnevi (779a41)

  22. Context is important, ranging from whether it was a serious discussion about medication dosage or if it a less serious case- a female cashier shooting down game from a dude desperate for papers or perhaps somebody in the Cher or Kim K category having many people mistake their ancestry.

    urbanleftbehind (37a780)

  23. @21. Don’t tell me what I know. Both he and my great aunt, also from Wales, spoke only Welsh, no English, when they bolted out of Wales- and apparently in quite a hurry- and arrived by steamer at Ellis Island and them on through on to Pgh. We’ve got the dates- even the name of the steamer they took. And yes, they were young, and yes, we have all the documentation of same, what they did and where they worked in Pgh.;everything from a bakery to laying brick streets; sis-in-law made a hobby of all this- it can be tedious to research- right up into the U.S. citizenship papers before WW2- which we found in shoebox- and his unio times at J&L Steel– the citizenship paperwork of the time, BTW, is quite eloquent and worth framing.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  24. Take heart; was in line at a CVS the other day when the customer ahead started speaking and the cashier responded firmly, “I don’t speak Spanish.”

    In SoCal, you will have trouble getting a job in retail if you only speak one language.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  25. True about the last point. I started saying “y’all” so people would not think I was a Spanish speaker. Though I once had a co-worker someone, born in North Carolina to Cuban parents, who spoke Spanish with a pronounced Southern drawl and English with a slight Spanish accent.

    But you know something? I have worked with Spanish speaking customers for years, some immigrants, some tourists, and learned some basic and rather limited Spanish, enough for essential communication with them (las palabras importantes, I call it). Because, you see, they are spending their money with me.

    Kishnevi (779a41)

  26. My CVSes are, respectively, (1) at Cermak and Harlem and (2) at Pulaski and Milwaukee. The Mexican cashiers think I’m Puerto Rican, the Puerto Rican cashiers think I’m Polish, and the Polish cashiers think I’m Puerto Rican. Thank you very much, George Chakiris and Anthony Quinn.

    nk (dbc370)

  27. Take heart; was in line at a CVS the other day when the customer ahead started speaking and the cashier responded firmly, “I don’t speak Spanish.”

    If his next words were not “but let me get someone who can” he might find that his bosses didn’t find it so heartening. I think most corporations would discipline an employee who acted out his politics in their store.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  28. Because, you see, they are spending their money with me.

    That’s Bank of America’s excuse, too: press three for profits.

    And no complaints about raising taxes to fund multilingual middle school classes and text books.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  29. Same in Florida. And fluency in either Kreyol or Brasiliero is a plus.
    And other languages too.
    There are apparently enough Koreans in my area to support a Korean language Presbyterian church.

    Kishnevi (779a41)

  30. @27. Everything isn’t politics- the cashier said she didn’t speak Spanish. I don’t either. The lesson here is learn English or bring along a friend who does and don’t hold up the line.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  31. @24. No. You won’t. Not at minimum wage.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  32. Is the point to absolve Mexico’s responsibility at this, and the illegal/distinction, that is why they are’screaming like banshees’ ar the Court after all.

    Narciso (9cdaa3)

  33. 30, most if the time, that’s bs… The Spanish to Spanish convo is usually faster than any English one between known parties. And don’t get me started on how much binge watching on apps I could get done with between placing the order and getting the food at a black-staffed fast food drive thru.

    urbanleftbehind (37a780)

  34. And no complaints about raising taxes to fund multilingual middle school classes and text books.

    Why not? Immigrants who come here with limited English are one thing. It’s how they are, and it will take them some time to get a handle on English. Their assimilation will be slow and probably incomplete. Retailers and others who want their business need to accommodate them.

    OTOH, teaching their kids in the same foreign language is designed to keep them from assimilating. It’s not only wrong, it’s immoral.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  35. Nk – 26, I thought Rep. Steve King had a differing theory about that.

    urbanleftbehind (37a780)

  36. @33. It’s the way it happened. She could have used the autocheckout gizmo.

    But no.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  37. @34. Who says it has to be “slow”; Von Braun and his people made an effort to learned English P-D-Q. It’s a matter of motivation and retailers don’t ‘need’ to accommodate them at all. It actually hurts them.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  38. I thought Rep. Steve King had a differing theory about that.

    What would that be, urbanleftbehind?

    BTW, that should have been *the Polish cashiers think I’m Mexican*.)

    nk (dbc370)

  39. Von Braun and his people made an effort to learned English P-D-Q.

    They were not ordinary people, and Europeans tend to lean more than one language unless they’re French. Most US immigrants come from monolingual countries.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  40. Hey, how about those polls. Bernie up by 9 over Trump, according to Fox.

    This goes on too long and Trump is going to get some strong challenger. A Cruz who said he’d do what Trump failed to do might get some traction in disappointed Trumpland.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  41. @39. It’s not so much they weren’t ordinary people as they were motivated to assimilate PDQ. Understand what you’re saying but it’s that need/necessity to ‘assimilate’ which gets stymied when retailers/banks and so forth make it easy for themselves. Late grandfather was a banker for 50 years at PNC in Pgh., through those years pre-and post WW2, and he would bring this up on occasion as the bank pressed for new revenue stream ideas. Yes, it was a fresh path to expand business in neighborhoods but he’d often say the price would cost more in the long run as a disincentive to assimilate the neighborhoods into the broader city culture. It was a ‘tough love’ – a ‘sink or swim’ type POV, but then, he’d seen it at work through the war years.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  42. 40. Wait ’til the weenies hit the debate skillet. The only person who can beat Trump… is Trump.

    He’ll eat’em alive. Unless Oprah runs.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  43. Pretty obvious why we are losing our culture when so many expect us to assimilate to a foreign culture so they can comfortably spend their dollars.

    But one of the requirements of citizenship is passable knowledge of the English language. Funny how that works.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  44. @43. Yep. Not to much to ask, is it, and you want to encourage them to use it. There’s two ways to look at it- the ‘tough love’ aspect or provide the convenience, usually for profit. It’s just human nature- if you make it easier for newcomers to conduct the business of daily life in their native tongue, they’ll do it– any of us would–for short term convenience sake but it prolongs the desired process of assimilation. There was a reason our German teacher steadfastly prohibited any English to be spoken in her classroom; she wanted us to learn German.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  45. 40. Wait ’til the weenies hit the debate skillet. The only person who can beat Trump… is Trump.

    Sorry, but Trump’s act isn’t original any more and all his promise have failed. Absolutely nothing has moved Trump’s way except judges. He couldn’t even get his AG to charge Hillary with a crime, let alone lock her up.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  46. @45. The act isn’t original any more…’

    Neither was the original ‘Dallas’ after two years– and it ran 13 seasons. The Donald is still entertaining and can run 8. Like JR Ewing, Trump’s the ‘bad boy’ “folks” either love or love to hate. And as long as the economy is percolating along, he doesn’t start any wars and keeps getting away with beating all the raps while suckered underlings take the falls, he’s likely to get another term. A Trump steak trumps 24 weenies any day.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  47. So which Trump kid is the equivalent of the Dallas 2011 reboot and what “channel” will it run on?

    urbanleftbehind (37a780)

  48. Bill weld whose family started in the China trade, who managed Mueller at the Boston office is your own player, Hogan and kasich bowed out.

    Narciso (9cdaa3)

  49. Cliff barnes kid keeps getting away with buying into Chinese aviation company and Ukrainian oil company.

    Narciso (9cdaa3)

  50. @47 TRUMP TV of course. Which by the way is Fox News, MSNBC, CNN, and all three networks rolled into one right now. Trump has pulled a Jeff Bezos and used the existing media infrastructure to run his own 24/7 advertising. For all their bellyachin’ about each other, the media loves TRUMP and he loves them. NYTIMES and WaPo included. Ratings are way up for everyone.

    JRH (52aed3)

  51. If 2020 doesnt work out, Trump has a good odds possibility to repeat a historical feat (and perhaps another one or few) achieved by another zaftig man from New York state.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  52. 50. JRH (52aed3) — 6/17/2019 @ 6:36 am

    NYTIMES and WaPo included.

    Trump claims they’ll go out of business when he’s no longer president.

    This is not true, although it could be a problem for Stephen Colbert.

    Trump also said on Twitter that he couldn’t decide which is worse. (note: it’s clearly the Washington Post. It’s run improbable stories. Different people leak to the two papers, and the NYT is more careful. And was actually very fair the other day on public attitudes toward abortion.)

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/15/us/politics/abortion-debate-pennsylvania.html

    Trump also claimed his own polls were better for him than public polls, then, apparently the polls were leaked and he fired his pollster. (if I got that right)

    Sammy Finkelman (d542b2)

  53. “It will be a victory when the Mexican government makes it official policy that lasts more than 45 or 90 days.”

    Everything in Mexico is done ‘manana’ unless you threaten them regularly and credibly, drug dealers and New York real estate agents can figure this out, seems lawyers haven’t really yet.

    Boulevard (24ced3)

  54. Pretty obvious why we are losing our culture when so many expect us to assimilate to a foreign culture so they can comfortably spend their dollars.

    It’s that hard Leftist idea known as the free market in operation.

    kishnevi (9ce8ca)

  55. Except this is less labor than other factor driven:

    https://www.ftportfolios.com/blogs/EconBlog/2019/6/17/better-signs

    Narciso (9cdaa3)

  56. 55

    Summary: Keep investing because we need the fees and commissions.

    There are a number of assumptions and circular reasonings in that. Among other things, retail sales growth of only half a percent is very weak. A retailer would call it breaking even.

    kishnevi (9ce8ca)

  57. 45: so let’s elect Hillary or Romney who won’t even try?

    Harcourt Fenton Mudd (6b1442)

  58. Amazing how the Democrats and NEver trumpers seem to be A-OK with illegals – many of them criminals or ill with God knows what – pouring over the border.

    Oh well, who cares about the USA. If Orange Man supports border security – they’re against it.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  59. the two banned candidate, are in the the lead:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-48621524

    narciso (d1f714)

  60. Boulevard is Steppe Nomad.

    DRJ (15874d)


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