Patterico's Pontifications

6/6/2019

75th Anniversary of D-Day

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 12:01 am



Today is June 6, 2019, the 75th anniversary of the D-Day landing, which occurred on June 6, 1944. My family was fortunate enough to visit the area of the Normandy landings in 2013, and I shared some of the pictures with my readers on the 70th anniversary of the invasion. I don’t think I can do any better than to basically repeat and update that post, starting with pictures of the Normandy American Cemetery:

Screen Shot 2013-08-25 at 7.34.21 PM

I’m going to put the rest of the pictures beneath the fold for bandwidth purposes. Just click on “more.”

More of the Normandy American Cemetery:

Screen Shot 2014-06-06 at 7.16.38 AM

Screen Shot 2014-06-06 at 7.16.11 AM

Here is Pointe du Hoc, where brave Rangers scaled the cliffs.

Screen Shot 2014-06-06 at 7.12.36 AM

Screen Shot 2014-06-06 at 7.13.17 AM

At the top of the cliff, the land was bombarded by shells so large they left giant craters that continue to pockmark the countryside:

Screen Shot 2014-06-06 at 7.14.20 AM

Screen Shot 2014-06-06 at 7.15.02 AM

The Longue-sur-Mer battery:

Screen Shot 2014-06-06 at 7.17.46 AM

You can imagine the Germans looking to the sea and anticipating what was coming:

Screen Shot 2014-06-06 at 7.18.25 AM

It is a shame that our representative at this anniversary is Trump, a small man who uses soldiers as props to avoid debates and tries to cheat them out of charity money.

But this day is larger than Trump. Raise a glass to the memory of those bold men from the Greatest Generation.

75 Responses to “75th Anniversary of D-Day”

  1. ‘It is a shame that our representative at this anniversary is Trump…’

    His election was unexpected; so was what just concluded in Normandy:

    President Trump delivered what is likely the finest address of his presidency.

    Stunning. Catch a full replay on CSPAN.

    Now please, Captain, sir– don’t spoil it with tweets!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  2. The horror of that day…I can’t begin to imagine what was going through the minds of those soldiers…should be mandatory viewing for all those who wish to vote in any election…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmiphUYwL_0

    Horatio (0035b4)

  3. 1. Funny how we mocked Obama for using a teleprompter, isn’t it?

    Gryph (08c844)

  4. I always found the statement Ike drafted, taking responsibility in case the attack failed, to strangely moving:

    “Our landings in the Cherbourg-Havre area have failed to gain a satisfactory foothold and I have withdrawn the troops. My decision to attack at this time and place was based upon the best information available. The troops, the air and the Navy did all that Bravery and devotion to duty could do. If any blame or fault attaches to the attempt it is mine alone.”

    A leader taking responsibility for his mistake – another stark contrast with what we have today.

    Dave (1bb933)

  5. I had reserved a spot in an all-day tour to visit Normandy when I was in Paris two years ago. But after getting up at 6am and paying for a taxi across the city from my hotel, they informed us the bus driver had called in sick (it happened to be Bastille Day, so you can guess the truth of the matter) and they would have to cancel the excursion and refund our money (but not the $30 taxi fare…).

    !#$@%#^ surrender monkeys…

    Dave (1bb933)

  6. His election was unexpected; so was what just concluded in Normandy:

    President Trump delivered what is likely the finest address of his presidency.

    Stunning. Catch a full replay on CSPAN.

    Chance of that: zero.

    Hooray that the moron managed to read a TelePrompTer. So what? This is grading on a curve to an extreme.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  7. Here’s how I ended the post 5 years ago:

    It is a shame that our representative at this anniversary is Obama, a small man who thinks of soldiers as “children” and “kids” and whose representatives deride honorable soldiers as potential “psychopaths.”

    But this day is larger than Obama.

    Just so you understand that I am an equal opportunity hater.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  8. As Gryph said in another thread: “The only things that Trump has ever said that sounded clever or profound are pretty obviously the things someone else wrote for him.” True of most recent presidents, of course, but never so true as it is with this chucklehead. But whatever. I mentioned him only because I mentioned Obama 5 years before and the sentiment still felt correct, but now I wish I hadn’t mentioned him in this post at all. Focus on the day, not the idiot.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  9. The speech would’ve had a deeper, more solemn, meaning had it been Romney or Cruz reading the TelePrompTer.

    Munroe (7122ae)

  10. “It really was one of those moments that I think Donald Trump needed to rise to in order to walk away from this cemetery, walk away from this hallowed ground, and have people back home saying, you know what—no matter what I think about the current President of the United States, he said the right thing at Normandy, he did the right thing at Normandy,” – Jim Acosta CNN

    harkin (470cbb)

  11. . . . the bus driver had called in sick (it happened to be Bastille Day, so you can guess the truth of the matter) and they would have to cancel the excursion. . .

    Only in France would they not have a contingency plan for a sick bus driver. OK, maybe in Italy too. But geeze, it’s not like taking tourists on bus trips through Normandy is a big tourist draw for that area or anything, right?

    JVW (54fd0b)

  12. You can imagine the Germans looking to the sea and anticipating what was coming:

    Indeed. It’s like those movies where the defenders of a city look over the walls and see a massive army preparing to storm the gates. I wonder how many young German boys, conscripted to fight for Hitler, knew in their heart of hearts that this would be their final hours on Earth.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  13. JVW, I think you’d like this story, if you haven’t already read it.

    https://dailycaller.com/2019/06/05/d-day-normandy-veteran-andy-andrews-story/

    Munroe (7306d9)

  14. So many sacrificed so much to allow our nation to be torn asunder.

    NJRob (5a4bbc)

  15. Great read. Thanks, Munroe.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  16. Not as many as you might think. For one thing, they were not necessarily boys. For another thing, they were not necessarily Germans.

    from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normandy_landings

    Nazi Germany had at its disposal fifty divisions in France and the Low Countries, with another eighteen stationed in Denmark and Norway. Fifteen divisions were in the process of formation in Germany.[47] Combat losses throughout the war, particularly on the Eastern Front, meant that the Germans no longer had a pool of able young men from which to draw. German soldiers were now on average six years older than their Allied counterparts. Many in the Normandy area were Ostlegionen (eastern legions) – conscripts and volunteers from Russia, Mongolia, and other areas of the Soviet Union. They were provided mainly with unreliable captured equipment and lacked motorised transport.[48][49] Many German units were under strength.[50]
    —————
    Nearly 160,000 troops crossed the English Channel on D-Day,[28] with 875,000 men disembarking by the end of June.[187] Allied casualties on the first day were at least 10,000, with 4,414 confirmed dead.[188] The Germans lost 1,000 men.[189] The Allied invasion plans had called for the capture of Carentan, St. Lô, Caen, and Bayeux on the first day, with all the beaches (other than Utah) linked with a front line 10 to 16 kilometres (6 to 10 mi) from the beaches; none of these objectives were achieved.[31] The five beachheads were not connected until 12 June, by which time the Allies held a front around 97 kilometres (60 mi) long and 24 kilometres (15 mi) deep.[190] Caen, a major objective, was still in German hands at the end of D-Day and would not be completely captured until 21 July.[191] The Germans had ordered French civilians other than those deemed essential to the war effort to leave potential combat zones in Normandy.[192] Civilian casualties on D-Day and D+1 are estimated at 3,000.[193]

    Wikipedia doesn’t give a complete total of how many German soldiers were defending the landing, but it would seem to be in the neighborhood of 35,000, including those Ostlegion soldiers. But proportionately the Germans had perhaps the half the casualty rate that the Allies did–which should not surprise anyone, since the Allies were attacking, and the Germans defending, fortifications–and there were more civilian casualties than German casulaties.

    kishnevi (9ce8ca)

  17. Just had to take a shot at Trump. Because it was appropriate to do so. At least he didn’t trade 5 terrorists for a traitor to celebrate the occasion.

    PTw (cbfa7c)

  18. #17 should see #8.

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  19. Indeed. It’s like those movies where the defenders of a city look over the walls and see a massive army preparing to storm the gates. I wonder how many young German boys, conscripted to fight for Hitler, knew in their heart of hearts that this would be their final hours on Earth.

    The first German to spot the Allied invasion fleet was supposedly Major Werner Pluskat, whose freaked-out reaction is dramatized in The Longest Day.

    He calls his commander back at headquarters, and tells him the Allies must have at least 5000 ships.

    The smug superior officer, sipping an espresso, tells him to calm down, and that the Americans and British don’t have 5000 ships between them. Then he mockingly asks where these 5000 ships are going, and Pluskat replies “Straight at me!”

    (According to Wikipedia, Pluskat was a consultant who was on the set during filming of The Longest Day.)

    Dave (1bb933)

  20. This is grading on a curve to an extreme.

    Obviously you never sat through a speech by LBJ.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  21. The speech would’ve had a deeper, more solemn, meaning had it been Romney or Cruz reading the TelePrompTer.

    Reagan, however, read his speech using index cards.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  22. I am glad that Trump avoided saying something like “They aren’t war heroes. They’re war heroes because they died. I like soldiers that didn’t die.”

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  23. I wonder: do people here have a personal connection with that day? A relative who landed, or someone else in their lives?

    I only know of one: my wife’s late uncle landed with an engineering battalion on June 6th. He never wanted to speak much of the details, but I do know that by D+5 the engineers had suffered casualties around 40%.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  24. kishnevi–

    It is said that Germany lost the war on December 11th, 1941 when Hitler, without consulting anyone, ordered the declaration to be announced. With that, the combined might of two continental powers was against him.

    MAYBE if the Germans had knocked Russia out during 1942 they could mounted a defense in the west, but Hitler screwed that up too, by ordering the capture of Stalingrad. By D-Day, they were being rolled up in the east and had robbed the west of much of its strength.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  25. MFA Russia 🇷🇺
    @mfa_russia
    #Zakharova: The Normandy landings were not a game-changer for the outcome of WWII and the Great Patriotic War. The outcome was determined by the Red Army’s victories – mainly, in Stalingrad and Kursk. For three years, the UK and then the US dragged out opening the second front
    __ _

    Fred Wellman
    @FPWellman
    Replying to
    @mfa_russia
    @RusEmbUSA
    Cool. Remember when Stalin collaborated with Hitler and then you occupied Poland and murdered thousands of their soldiers? Here’s a funny story from an actual Russian historian about how U.S. Lend Lease saved the Soviet Union when you lost all your tanks.
    __ _

    Nick Stolte
    @StolteNick
    People also willfully ignore the fact that the Soviets conspired with the Nazis, allowing them early success in the wars. They not only divided up Europe, but they supplied Germany with an absurd amount of raw materials for their war machine.

    _

    Tovarich!

    harkin (470cbb)

  26. The ceremonies were broadcast on CBS starting at about 5 am Eastern time. Trump spoke at about 6:30 and Trump’s speech was so-so. If that was the best speech of his presidency that doesn’t say much for his other speeches. The D-Day anniversary speech by an American president that is supposed to have been the best was the one delivered by Ronald Reagan in 1984, written for him by Peggy Noonan.

    Sammy Finkelman (9974e8)

  27. Yes, and the victory at Kursk was, in part due to all of Hitler’s reserves being suddenly sent to Italy to stop the Allied advances there. Were America not in the war, every last German division would have been in the East and all those Soviet victories would be different.

    Also, Russia benefited greatly from some terrible strategic blunders by Hitler. His generals, left to themselves, would have crushed Stalin with the resources they had.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  28. The Normandy landing may indeed be played up a little bit more than what it’s worth. And it came very late, in June 1944. It was however, the biggest of the American and British troops in the Euroean theare at least and it did mean the end, albeit almost a year later because General Patton didn’t get enough gasoline in September.

    And maybe the herism is played up too much. They did what they had to. They weren’t volunteers, or they felt that they had to volunteer because of the time and the place they were in.

    Honoring veterans has been a big thing in the United States, at least since the Civil War. Politicians did all sorts of things and gave all sorts of goodies to veterans, and I suppose REASON magazine could criticize it, and others could wonder why you need the excuse of compensating veterans to help people (maybe it saves money to limit it to veterans, and veterans are or were better organized. There was the Grand Army of the republic which played abig role for about 30 years after the Civil War, and remember, at that time, only men could vote. After that, politicians had t organzie people around other organizations.)

    So anyway we had pensions, (although Grover Cleveland vetoed many private pension bills in his first term, 1885-1889) and the GI Bill of Rights in 1944, which paid for college education.

    Sammy Finkelman (9974e8)

  29. Everything that Donald Trump does should be judged on its own merits.

    Some things may be very wrong; some may have flaws but be overall good; some may be close to just the right thing.

    Only after doing that should you give an overall evaluation,

    Here you can say these words in the speech are good, this is not so good, this shuld have been said like that, this was missing, this was avery good thing to say etc. And that’s the way to do it.

    Now there’s similarity or carryover between what he does one place and wat he does another but only because you’ve got the same person with the same kind of thinking doing different things.

    and noticing that in two different things you hav the same problem is also after the fact.

    Sammy Finkelman (9974e8)

  30. Any Trump speech which doesn’t include the words “I resign the presidency, effective immediately” is of no interest to me.

    Dave (817a71)

  31. @6/7 ‘So what?’

    ‘We salute rank, not the man.’ – Dick Winters

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  32. Any Trump speech which doesn’t include the words “I resign the presidency, effective immediately” is of no interest to me.”

    https://www.theissue.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/scream-helplessly-at-the-sky.png

    harkin (470cbb)

  33. Any Trump speech which doesn’t include the words “I resign the presidency, effective immediately” is of no interest to me.

    Oh, I think I’d perk up at “I declare war on….”

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  34. @10. Bingo.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  35. Sammy, many of the men who landed or dropped on D-Day were members of units that you had to volunteer for (airborne, rangers, engineers, etc) and meet special requirements. They did not volunteer in the sense of “I choose to land at Utah Beach”, but they could have stayed in the basic ranks, and did not.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  36. The Normandy landing may indeed be played up a little bit more than what it’s worth. And it came very late, in June 1944.

    Without that landing (or the US in the fight) the Germans would have had much more to fight with on the Eastern Front. It was utterly necessary to ensure the defeat of Germany.

    But even if you take the attitude that the Soviets would have defeated the Nazis on their own, it was still utterly necessary or Stalin would have controlled all of Europe in the end.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  37. Dave (35),

    And this is why I say that impeachment charges should not have to rely on finding some statute that has been violated. Impeach him for the reasons that you have, not some you found or made up.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  38. @23. There’s several notables you’d recognize who participated in the Overlord operation in 1944. You can look them up on the web. No, not Reagan nor Wayne, but Canadian James ‘Scotty’ Doohan, Charles Durning, Alec Guinness and several others. Most interesting was British actor Richard Todd, who served in John Howard’s glider assault team on the Pegasus Bridge and later played the role of Howard in the film, ‘The Longest Day.’ The beret Todd wore in the movie was the same one he wore in the 1944 assault.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  39. Without that landing (or the US in the fight) the Germans would have had much more to fight with on the Eastern Front. It was utterly necessary to ensure the defeat of Germany.

    It’s an interesting historical question, but I’m not so convinced. The Germans were in retreat on the Eastern Front from November 1942, long before American involvement became meaningful in scale or had any effect on the deployment of German forces.

    Of course, it made a difference. Massive shipments of supplies and weapons to the Soviets, and the diversion and subsequent destruction of the German air force over Western Europe may have been equally or more important.

    There are quite detailed and historically accurate simulations of WWII (some of which I have helped design); generally, if Russia survives 1942, they can eventually crush Germany no matter what the Western Allies do (short of surrender).

    Of course, these conclusions, even if you agree with them, all flow from hindsight. At the time of D-Day, nobody knew that Germany’s atomic weapons program was a bust despite the head start they enjoyed at the beginning of the war, and the Germans still controlled most of Europe and were only about 50 miles from Leningrad and 200 miles from Moscow.

    But even if you take the attitude that the Soviets would have defeated the Nazis on their own, it was still utterly necessary or Stalin would have controlled all of Europe in the end.

    No doubt about that.

    Dave (1bb933)

  40. 36. Kevin M (21ca15) — 6/6/2019 @ 1:07 pm

    36.Sammy, many of the men who landed or dropped on D-Day were members of units that you had to volunteer for (airborne, rangers, engineers, etc) and meet special requirements. They did not volunteer in the sense of “I choose to land at Utah Beach”, but they could have stayed in the basic ranks, and did not

    I think people liked that because they could make a more significant (individual) contributon toward winning the war in a special unit – what they did would matter. And also probably it somehow felt safer: The risks were periodic, and more under their control. They wouldn’t be cannon fodder.

    Sammy Finkelman (9974e8)

  41. @12. Interesting POV. While living in Britain back in the day, visited Normandy a few times and the most powerful memory, at least for me, wasn’t so much the view from France, but the sight of that thin, grey approaching coastline from the ship as we crossed a choppy channel. Still gives me a chill recalling it and picturing the hellfire they were sailing into. Felt the same way at Waterloo– and Gettysburg.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  42. 40. Re: simulations.

    They may not be too good. During the Cold War, in simulations, NATO always lost conventionally to the Soviet Union, and I think the United States even lost to Iraq in 1990.

    And then there was the computer game Balance of Power in which, if I am right, if anything remotely similar to what atually happened in 1989, happened in the game, the world would blow up.

    Sammy Finkelman (9974e8)

  43. nobody knew that Germany’s atomic weapons program was a bust despite the head start they enjoyed at the beginning of the war

    Actually they may have known, but didn’t tell the scientists for fear they’d let up. Quite a few of them were Jewish and the idea of Hitler with a nuclear bomb was extra special bad.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  44. Sammy (43),

    I am reminded of a line by James Baker, meeting with the Soviets, regarding Saddam’s invasion of Kuwait: “[W]e might have been in earlier days viewing this very tragic action through an East-West prism.”

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  45. The Western Allies could’ve signed a non-aggression pact with Hitler and sat idly by, just as the Russians had done five years earlier, but they didn’t.

    That’s the significance of D-Day, as compared to anything the Russians did on the Eastern Front.

    Munroe (afb19e)

  46. Actually they may have known, but didn’t tell the scientists for fear they’d let up.

    That was later, after D-Day, when the Alsos mission, a elite squad of fanatical physicist/commandos(*), started ransacking captured German labs and interrogating captured scientists.

    They got a bit of information from Italian scientists in 1943, but nothing conclusive until the capture of Paris and Strasbourg.

    As Samuel Goudsmit, the lead physicist on the team, wistfully observed after capturing and inspecting the main German uranium lab in April 1945:

    It was so obvious the whole German uranium set up was on a ludicrously small scale. Here was the central group of laboratories, and all it amounted to was a little cave, a wing of a small textile factory, a few rooms in an old brewery. To be sure, the laboratories were well equipped, but compared to what we were doing in the United States it was still small-time stuff. Sometimes we wondered if our government had not spent more money on our intelligence mission than the Germans had spent on their whole project.

    Toward the end of the war, their mission evolved into seizing and spiriting sensitive uranium-related documents, equipment and personnel out of areas slated for occupation by the Russians and French(!).

    (*) Okay, not really, but they did have physicists!

    Dave (1bb933)

  47. The Western Allies could’ve signed a non-aggression pact with Hitler and sat idly by, just as the Russians had done five years earlier, but they didn’t.

    As democratic governments, I don’t see how the Western Allies could possibly have done that.

    Churchill was subject to removal from office by a vote of no confidence at any time.

    Dave (1bb933)

  48. rip dr. john,

    narciso (d1f714)

  49. Reading all the coverage of the anniversary of D-Day and all the memorialization by the US and Britain and France, I can’t help but wonder what Eastern Europeans think about the “beginning of the end” for Hitler and the Third Reich when the defeat of Nazi Germany for them simply meant exchanging one oppressor for another. With the exception that they only had to put up with the Germans for a few years and the Soviet Union lasted for generations. There’s no question in my mind that the Soviet Union won WWII – they got half of Europe out of the deal. I wouldn’t blame the average Eastern European for thinking the whole “liberation of Europe” was a little of a raw deal for them.

    Jerryskids (702a61)

  50. Jerryskids (702a61) — 6/6/2019 @ 4:49 pm

    No doubt, although history didn’t begin in September 1939, either.

    It was the western countries who “sat idly by” while Germany, Italy and Japan did whatever they pleased between 1935 and 1939, and the Nazi-Soviet Pact was not the first attempt to buy peace with Hitler at somebody else’s expense – that would be the Munich Agreement.

    Dave (1bb933)

  51. USA Today has a spread of photos taken during D-Day itself.
    https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/1365312001

    Kishnevi (e266d6)

  52. elite squad of fanatical physicist/commandos

    Also rock stars, including one Buckaroo Banzai.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  53. Churchill was subject to removal from office by a vote of no confidence at any time.

    By all accounts, Churchill was the only reason Britain didn’t quit after Dunkirk. Lord Halifax, who had declined the PM’s job, was quite in favor of a negotiated peace. It’s a really good thing that Edward VII had abdicated, too, since he was on good terms with Herr Hitler before the war.

    More than a few alternate history books have hinged on Britain bowing out early, letting Hitler win.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  54. By all accounts, Churchill was the only reason Britain didn’t quit after Dunkirk.

    “History will be kind to me for I intend to write it.”
    – Churchill

    Dave (1bb933)

  55. None of the post-war Soviet Bloc were innocent. They were Hitler’s co-belligerents. Even Poland. Little taught fact, since somebody mentioned Munich: When Hitler grabbed the Sudetenland, Poland also took the opportunity to grab a piece of Czechoslovakia in the Northeast. Britain and Poland were buddies at the time, and it may have contributed to Chamberlain’s softness at Munich.

    Yugoslavia was on both sides, but Tito first wiped out the Croats and Bosnians who had fought for the Nazis, and then broke with Stalin in 1949. He was his own despot; he was not under the Soviet heel.

    Germany and Austria got off easy. Waaay too easy, and they have the West’s fear of Stalin to thank for that.

    nk (dbc370)

  56. “and the Nazi-Soviet Pact was not the first attempt to buy peace with Hitler at somebody else’s expense – that would be the Munich Agreement.”
    Dave (1bb933) — 6/6/2019 @ 5:17 pm

    Which documentary covers the British invasion of Czechoslovakia?

    Munroe (c9d085)

  57. None of the post-war Soviet Bloc were innocent. They were Hitler’s co-belligerents.

    And often enough they were co-criminals in the Holocaust. (Poland had pogroms under the early Communist regime.) France doesn’t come out looking very well, of course. But ironically the two regimes who were officially allies of Hitler at the start of the war, Hungary and Italy, were more resistant to the German plans for the Jews than most of the countries that the Germans occupied and used puppet fascist regimes. Horthy’s resistance to the genocide was apparently a major reason for the Nazi takeover of Hungary.

    Kishnevi (e266d6)

  58. Horthy and Mussolini did enact antiSemitic programs, of course, but mostly in response to German pressure, and seem to have tried to send as few Jews as possible to the death camps (Horthy was quite willing to expel Jews from Hungary and let them live in brutal conditions, but the Nazis procured his agreement to send Jews to Auschwitz only after they had kidnapped his son, and not long after took Hungary under their direct control.)

    Kishnevi (e266d6)

  59. Gotta give Horthy credit – he somehow held the rank of Admiral in a completely land-locked country…

    Dave (1bb933)

  60. Which documentary covers the British invasion of Czechoslovakia?

    The one in which Czechoslovakia was part of Britain for hundreds of years, invaded by a neighboring country eighteen years before, and annexed at gunpoint, I guess.

    Dave (1bb933)

  61. Horthy was an actual naval officer in an actual navy, that of Austria Hungary, before 1918

    Apparently I misremembered a few important facts
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikl%C3%B3s_Horthy

    Kishnevi (e266d6)

  62. Lol

    harkin (470cbb)

  63. Horthy was an actual naval officer in an actual navy, that of Austria Hungary, before 1918

    Yeah, I figured. It’s still pretty funny though.

    I wonder if they at least had a few gunboats on the Danube for him to command?

    Dave (1bb933)

  64. For Steve57, wherever he is.

    felipe (023cc9)

  65. “History will be kind to me for I intend to write it.”
    – Churchill

    And all the other historians fell in line, since the arch-conservative, socialist-hating, Empire-loving Churchill was their kind of guy.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  66. I wonder if they at least had a few gunboats on the Danube for him to command?

    The Empire had plenty of ports on the east side of the Adriatic, as it contained most of Yugoslavia until 1945.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  67. Oops. as it contained most of Yugoslavia until 1945 1918. I guess that’s what you meant.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  68. British intelligence tried to convince the Nazis that there was a faction in Britain that wanted to settle – that worked so well it caused Rudolph Hess, who had been sidelined, to parachute into England in May, 1941. He wound up (unintentionally) actually saving himself from the gallows that way because e bailed out bfore the worst crimes were committed.

    Sammy Finkelman (9974e8)

  69. It;s slowly becoming clear that there was a very high death rate in the initial landing and they knew.

    Eisenhower didn’t do the things like the British and French generals generals during World War I – sending men “over the top” by the trenches, but the Normandy landing was an exception to that.

    Sammy Finkelman (9974e8)

  70. Trump’s speech would’ve been much better if Hillary had Given it.

    /S/ Bill Kristol

    rcocean (1a839e)

  71. Remember Obama’s D-day speech in 2009 and 2014? Neither do I. What’s odd is the BIG D-DAY speech should’ve been made in 1994. 50th aniversery and all that. Yet, I don’t have the slightest recollection of Bill Clinton’s speech. Do you?

    rcocean (1a839e)

  72. Eisenhower didn’t do the things like the British and French generals generals during World War I – sending men “over the top” by the trenches, but the Normandy landing was an exception to that.

    Ike approved the “November ’44” offensive which included the bloodbath at the Hurtgen Forest. 10,000 USA KIA. His rationale? maybe we would succeed, but even if we didn’t the Krauts couldn’t afford losses and we could.

    That’s what the British Generals said during Passchendaele.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  73. CSpan has the tape
    https://www.c-span.org/video/?57592-1/president-clinton-day-speech-normandy-american-cemetery-1994

    In the scale of things, these speeches are usually forgettable. Trump’s will be forgotten as quickly as Obama’s.

    When you come down to it, only two speeches of this sort have had a lasting impact. One was given by Pericles in 430 BCE, the other by Lincoln on November 19, 1863.

    Kishnevi (8c41bd)


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