Patterico's Pontifications

4/18/2019

Mueller Report Appetizer

Filed under: General — Dana @ 9:42 am



[guest post by Dana]

Our host will be posting his thoughts on the Mueller report this evening. In the meantime, here’s something for you to chew on. Or chew up:

Untitled

(Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.)

–Dana

215 Responses to “Mueller Report Appetizer”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (7d6d05)

  2. Cool graphic.

    nk (dbc370)

  3. In the meantime, here’s something for you to chew on. Or chew up:

    I’m gonna hurl!

    It seems clear from reading volume 2 that the only reason Trump wasn’t charged with obstruction is that they decided at the outset that he would not be so charged, regardless of the evidence. The report says this, explicitly.

    Dave (1bb933)

  4. Dave, can you point me to where the report says that?

    Time123 (a7a01b)

  5. The reaction of the Democrat contenders looks like it was provided by Journolist. They have their talking points and they will use them no matter how they fit the facts.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  6. Cool graphic.

    Using the Game of Thrones font may not be the best karma.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  7. Karma, karma, karma, karma, karma comedians
    The Dems all blow, the Dems all blow

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  8. well lewis black was moderately amusing, but randy credico well he turned out to be leftwing gadfly,

    https://twitter.com/JordanSchachtel/status/1118888060471713792

    narciso (d1f714)

  9. We already knew the ending. And it’s been November 9, 2016 all over again for the Democrats for a while already.

    nk (dbc370)

  10. Interesting that the Whitehouse hasn’t demanded any executive privilege at all.

    I think this will have legs on the Democratic House:

    whembly (fd57f6)

  11. I would say it’s the ending to kingsman, but not enough matter to matter,

    narciso (d1f714)

  12. oh wait that was an argument:

    https://twitter.com/seanmdav/status/1118925772746567685

    narciso (d1f714)

  13. kingpin has to render his view:

    https://twitter.com/Doranimated/status/1118882115377094657

    narciso (d1f714)

  14. #16 apparently, it still is:

    https://www.conservativereview.com/news/team-mueller-enlists-faulty-logic-final-failed-attempt-resuscitate-russia-hoax/

    narciso (d1f714) — 4/18/2019 @ 10:33 am

    Not entirely convinced of the author’s point. That is:

    But the conclusion from Mueller’s prosecutors is largely misleading and it fails the logic test. It was not Mueller’s job to prove a negative – that the president did not commit a crime. His job was to determine whether the president did commit a crime.

    Definitively establishing that the president or his team did not obstruct justice or collude with Russia is an impossible task, or would entail a decades-long investigation, given the endless variables it would have to take for Team Mueller to prove a negative.

    Is that a bit…overwrought?

    whembly (fd57f6)

  15. I wonder if, next time he fires an untrustworthy political weasel, Trump will have the sense to say “Today I fire an untrustworthy political weasel” rather than go on and on about his gripes with the guy.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  16. Definitively establishing that the president or his team did not obstruct justice or collude with Russia is an impossible task

    Overwrought? How can the simple truth be “overwrought”?

    Prove that Bill Clinton and Loretta Lynch did NOT talk about Hillary’s email problems on that tarmac meeting, and what Lynch might be offered for deep-sixing them.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  17. Dave, can you point me to where the report says that?

    Volume 2, page 2 (page 1 is also relevant).

    Third, we considered whether to evaluate the conduct we investigated under the Justice Manual standards governing prosecution and declination decisions, but we determined not to apply an approach that could potentially result in a judgment that the President committed crimes.

    Then in the conclusion of the Executive Summary of Volume 2, on V2 page 8:

    Because we determined not to make a traditional prosecutorial judgment, we did not draw ultimate conclusions about the President’s conduct. The evidence we obtained about the President’s actions and intent presents difficult issues that would need to be resolved if we were making a traditional prosecutorial judgment. At the same time, if we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the President clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state. Based on the facts and the applicable legal standards, we are unable to reach that judgment. Accordingly, while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crim, it also does not exonerate him.

    Dave (1bb933)

  18. remember who wrote this section, the one who ‘burn Arthur Anderson to the ground’ then the court said oops,

    https://twitter.com/HudsonInstitute/status/1118906694241792002

    narciso (d1f714)

  19. “Accordingly, while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crim, it also does not exonerate him.”

    Mueller’s laying out the foundation for endless investigations here. As was his intent.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  20. So it was rigged … but in Trump’s favor.

    Dave (1bb933)

  21. #21: Overwrought? How can the simple truth be “overwrought”?

    Prove that Bill Clinton and Loretta Lynch did NOT talk about Hillary’s email problems on that tarmac meeting, and what Lynch might be offered for deep-sixing them.

    Kevin M (21ca15) — 4/18/2019 @ 10:44 am

    Heh… point taken.

    I guess what it’ll all boil down to is this: Is this enough for House Democrats to invoke articles of impeachment?

    whembly (b9d411)

  22. At the same time, if we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts positive proof that the President was cryogenically frozen in suspended animation for all relevant time periods we could clearly state he did not commit obstruction of justice.

    nk (dbc370)

  23. I’d always thought investigations were normally to end in a finding of “guilty” or “not guilty”. Perhaps that’s not the case.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  24. Wait! What about telepathy?

    nk (dbc370)

  25. They are going to spin, spin in all directions
    Won’t be nothing
    Nothing you can measure anymore
    The blizzard, the blizzard of words
    Has crossed the threshold
    And it has overturned
    The meaning of truth
    When they said (they said) confess (confess), confess (confess)
    I thought they meant the press
    When they said (they said) confess (confess), confess (confess)
    I thought they meant the press
    When they said (they said) confess (confess), confess (confess)
    I thought they meant the press

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  26. 3. Dave (1bb933) — 4/18/2019 @ 9:47

    It seems clear from reading volume 2 that the only reason Trump wasn’t charged with obstruction is that they decided at the outset that he would not be so charged, regardless of the evidence. The report says this, explicitly.

    That;s not the only reason, but it TRUMPS all the other reasons.

    They decided, bit not at the outset, but only after getting arguments from Trump’s lawyers, that they were bound by Justice Department policy against indicting asitting president. Mueller invesigated it anyway, because Trump might still be indicted after leaving office, or Congrewss might us that as grounds for impeachment, and the result was inconclusive and he left wit up tp Rosnstein and Barr. Mueller looked into 10 episodes that could be characerized as obstruction, most of which are not new to us. Rosenstein and Barr decidd that they did not need to rely on that policy in order not to indict Trump.

    Barr said that, given that Mueller concluded that the evidence does not establish that the president was involved in an underlying crime, wanting to stop an investigation because the president was sincere in his belief that it could undermine his presidency, and was propelled by his political opponents, and fueled by illegal leaks is not a corrupt motive.

    Sammy Finkelman (30b6b6)

  27. Hey! I ordered teh calamari!!!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  28. Best parts so far:

    Chris Christie telling the president on Feb. 14, 2017 (v2, p38) “there was no way to make an investigation shorter, but a lot of ways to make it longer.”

    Trump told Christie, “I fired Flynn, it’s over,” and Christie laughed at him. Christie told him it would be impossible to make Flynn go away, “like gum on the bottom of your shoe”.

    Trump rages over Sessions’ recusal, and says he wishes he had Roy Cohn as his attorney (v2, p50)

    Steve Bannon warned him (v2,p64) that firing Comey would not end the investigation because “you can fire the FBI director but you can’t fire the FBI.”

    The President’s steadfast determination to disregard every piece of good advice he was given really permeates Volume 2.

    Dave (1bb933)

  29. Filed under “Pursuit of teh Pony in teh Pile”…

    “We know it wasn’t a criminal conspiracy with the Russians, but then what was it? Because Robert Mueller spent 22 months looking at it, and if there was nothing, I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t have taken 22 months to say nothing.”

    — Nicolle Wallace, MSLSD

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  30. The Russian government sponsored efforts to interfere with the 2016 election campaign

    Trump and his campaign did not collude or co-operate with Russian attempts to interfere with the 2016 election

    Nobody from Trump’s campaign or associated with the campaign conspired with operations to hack Democratic National Committee and Clinton campaign emails

    Russia’s GRU gave stolen emails to Wikileaks for publication – but no member or affiliate of the Trump campaign illegally encouraged or played a role in these dissemination efforts

    Special Counsel did not find any conspiracy to violate U.S. law between Russian-linked persons and the Trump campaign
    Mueller recounts ten ‘episodes’ involving Trump which could have been considered to obstruct justice – and said that he had not

    Trump ‘was frustrated and angered by his sincere belief that the investigation was undermining his presidency, propelled by his political opponents and fueled by illegal leaks’

    Trump’s personal counsel viewed the redacted version of Mueller’s report but requested no redactions.

    The president did not assert executive privilege to make any redactions.

    The redactions in the report are tied to ‘ongoing investigations and criminal cases,’ such as the case against longtime Trump confident Roger Stone.

    A select, bipartisan group of lawmakers will get to see a version of the report ‘with all redactions removed except those relating to grand-jury information.’

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6936383/Attorney-General-Bill-Barr-reveals-redacted-Mueller-report.html

    harkin (e15868)

  31. Funniest to me so far is verification that there was, in fact, a (fake) pee tape.

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  32. Dave, thank you for helping me out with the quote. I haven’t had a chance to read it yet.

    Time123 (53ef45)

  33. “In assessing the President’s actions discussed in the report, it is important to bear in mind the context. President Trump faced an unprecedented situation. As he entered into office, and sought to perform his responsibilities as President, federal agents and prosecutors were scrutinizing his conduct before and after taking office, and the conduct of some of his associates. At the same time, there was relentless speculation in the news media about the President’s personal culpability. Yet, as he said from the beginning, there was in fact no collusion. And as the Special Counsel’s report acknowledges, there is substantial evidence to show that the President was frustrated and angered by a sincere belief that the investigation was undermining his presidency, propelled by his political opponents, and fueled by illegal leaks. Nonetheless, the White House fully cooperated with the Special Counsel’s investigation, providing unfettered access to campaign and White House documents, directing senior aides to testify freely, and asserting no privilege claims. And at the same time, the President took no act that in fact deprived the Special Counsel of the documents and witnesses necessary to complete his investigation. Apart from whether the acts were obstructive, this evidence of non-corrupt motives weighs heavily against any allegation that the President had a corrupt intent to obstruct the investigation.”

    — William Barr, AGOTUS

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  34. To repeat my takeaways from Barr’s press conference this morning:

    It’s basically an expanded version of his 4-page March 24 letter.

    He says there are not too many redactions, and each of the redactions is labeled with what category it falls into, whc=ich can be: Intelligence related; ongoing case related; harming the reputation of peripheral persons (only if they asked for it?); or grand jury information not known any other way.

    The intelligence community may have asked for some redactions. While the White House saw it,, it did not ask for any. The reason the White House had it, (in the last day or two?)was not because they asked for it, but because Justice Department ethics guidelines require it (because it concerns Trump, the person, and other people in the White House. This could mean other people mentioned in it saw parts concerning them, too.

    The version seen by Congress will have redactions limited to grand jury information.

    I paid careful attention to what Barr does not say.

    For some things he says no American was involved, and for some things he says something like no person in the Trump campaign. I assume the identity of other people involved in the leaking of the hacks is grand jury information and/or they are peripheral people who may have asked their names not be released.

    Barr said dcleaks and Guccifer [Guccifer 2.0 I think he means] were controlled by Russia, but does not say the same thing about Wikileaks, and mentions no other people or organizations involved in disseminating the results of the hacking, which doesn’t mean nobody was.

    Further:

    1. He specifically discusses the leaking. Which he notes would not be a crime if the persons concerned were not involved in the hacking. He;s still caefully choosing his words, so as not to exclude knowing help by some U.S. persons not associated with Trump.

    2. He notes that Nueller considered 10 possible acts of obstruction. We have a number. We also know from before that most of these ten incidents are publicly known already.

    3. He and Rosenstein did not agree with all of Mueller’s theories as to how acts could be obstruction. Some of them did not meet the legal definiton of obstruction.

    4. Trump had a non-corrupt motive for wanting to halt the investigation in not wanting his presidency under a shadow. (if it didn’t need to be, it goes without saying.) Wanting to stop an investigation because it is the result of attempts to undermine his presidency, propelled by his political opponents and fueled by illegal leaks is not a corrupt motive if there is no underlying crime.

    5. The ongoing cases because of which there might be some redactions include the Internet Research Agency sockpuppeting case and the Roger Stone case.

    Sammy Finkelman (30b6b6)

  35. Much of the redactions concern the Concord catering matter that will never be fully examined
    And surprisingly squid you still get it rlwrong.

    Narciso (035467)

  36. ”Attorney General William Barr doesn’t take any nonsense, especially from the liberal media. After his remarks to the press, Barr opened the floor for some questions. One reporter asked about how Barr has presided over the release of this report, noting on concerns about the redaction process, as Barr’s remarks about spygate are being used in Trump fundraising emails, he’s exonerated him on collusion, he’s cleared him of obstruction, and had words that were generous to the president.

    What do you say to people on both sides of the aisle, who are concerned that you are trying to protect the president,” she asked.

    “It just seems there’s a lot of effort to go out of your way to acknowledge how this was difficult for him,” quoting the portion of the remarks where Barr said, Trump “faced an unprecedented situation.”

    “Well, is there another precedent for it?” replied Barr.

    “No, but it’s unusual that…,” replied the reporter.

    “Okay, so unprecedented is an accurate description, isn’t it,” said Barr.

    https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2019/04/18/smackdown-attorney-general-barr-shuts-down-reporter-who-tried-to-insinuate-he-wa-n2545010

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  37. Barr’s performance was spin.

    Patterico (3ba0dc)

  38. All the people who believed Sarah Sanders’ bullshit about how Comey was hated in the FBI, or who mocked the NYT story saying Trump ordered McGahn to fire Mueller: you’re all ready to issue your mea culpas, right?

    Patterico (3ba0dc)

  39. It’s hilarious when people whose job it is to lie for Trump are actually forced to tell the truth to federal investigators. Go look up the story about how Sarah Sanders made shit up about Comey.

    Patterico (3ba0dc)

  40. X’s performance was spin.

    where X is the set of all people talking on the fancy box with the moving pictures

    frosty48 (6226c1)

  41. narciso @40 I had to lok that up

    Concord Management and Consulting is acompany owned by Yevgeniy Prigozhin, a Russian businessman who was earlier known as “Putin’s chef” It was indicted for trolling or sockpuppeting, and wet into court to challenge the indictment.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/us-judge-refuses-to-toss-mueller-probe-case-against-russian-firm-owned-by-putins-chef/2018/11/15/0a41e2a2-e8ed-11e8-b8dc-66cca409c180_story.html

    https://splinternews.com/a-guide-to-the-mueller-investigation-for-anyone-whos-on-1832882135

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  42. Barr’s performance was spin.

    I’d go further, Barr was lying, blatantly.

    I can’t read the redacted parts obviously, but having read the thing cover to cover, it clearly states that there was, in fact, collusion, but there isn’t enough direct evidence of a crime. Trump’s right, collusion isn’t a crime, but it happened.

    On obstruction, it plainly says there was evidence of obstruction, but the counsel acknowledges that it is not their option to charge the president with the crime.

    Congress is the appropriate venue to weigh these charges as “high crimes and misdemeanors”. I have zero faith that it will occur, but there are about 7 billion times more reasons to try the president for impeachment in this case, than in Clinton’s lady drama.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  43. About an illegitimate investigation that covered up real criminal offenses by the Clintons, about sting operations using Henry Greenberg and felix saters, about dezinfirma recycled into govt documentation

    Narciso (035467)

  44. It’s hilarious when people whose job it is to lie for Trump are actually forced to tell the truth to federal investigators. Go look up the story about how Sarah Sanders made shit up about Comey.

    Spicer too (v2, p70).

    “It was all [Rosenstein]. No one from the White House. It was a DOJ decision.”

    More comedy gold (v2, p 72):

    When McCabe met with the president that afternoon [a couple days after Comey was fired], the President, without prompting, told McCabe that people in the FBI loved the President, estimated that at least 80% of the FBI had voted for him, and asked McCabe who he had voted for in the 2016 presidential election.

    I’m guessing that an uncomfortable silence ensued…

    Dave (1bb933)

  45. PDF f the Mueller Report (as redacted)

    https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/books/1131278152?ean=9781454938125

    Attorney Work Product crossed out.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  46. Barr’s performance was spin.

    Patterico (3ba0dc) — 4/18/2019 @ 12:16 pm

    Are you surprised? This is a political appointee where the target of the investigation was his boss.

    whembly (fd57f6)

  47. Know your audience: “The gray middle America– they’re suckers.” – Richard Nixon, May 4, 1972

    _____________

    Patriot Games

    The score:

    Rule of Men: 37
    Rule of Law: 0

    “You will be better advised to watch what we do, not what we say.” – Nixon Administration Attorney General & convicted felon John N. Mitchell, 1969- jailed in 1975 for conspiracy, obstruction of justice & perjury for his role in covering up Watergate crimes known as the ‘White House horrors.’

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  48. Best line of the day [so far]— “Baghdad Barr.” – NBC News.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  49. And here I thought the two years of claiming Trump was guilty of colluding with the Russians was the spin.

    harkin (e15868)

  50. . . . there are about 7 billion times more reasons to try the president for impeachment in this case, than in Clinton’s lady drama.

    Overwrought hyperbole isn’t really all that helpful right now. Let’s leave that to the Trumpers and the Resisters and vow to have a more measured and rational discussion here.

    JVW (04dc29)

  51. Regarding the Mueller Report and Trump in comparison to the Starr Report and Clinton, I think what is a common theme in both cases is how ridiculously hard it is to charge a President with crimes that would lead to impeachment and removal. Perhaps that is how it ought to be.

    Had Hillary been elected we might have had a Special Counsel’s report released this week that says, yes, Hillary and her team did in fact seek to obstruct justice by crafting lies and destroying evidence, but the Special Counsel would not file charges and would instead leave it up to Congress as to deal with the matter.

    JVW (04dc29)

  52. Overwrought hyperbole isn’t really all that helpful right now. Let’s leave that to the Trumpers and the Resisters and vow to have a more measured and rational discussion here.

    Yes, 7 billion is hyperbolic, how about just more justification.

    As a private citizen, Trump would be facing a jury, Clinton a divorce attorney. If, you know, either he or his wife cared. Heck, Trump did the same in his private life and did see a divorce attorney for 2 of the 3 that cared.

    Of course, as a private citizen, he wouldn’t have had a reason to obstruct justice, just a bit more financial fraud, and tax evasion.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  53. The Mueller Report says, on page one, that Russian interference in the election principally in two forms:

    1 – A Russian entity carried out a social media campaign that favored presidential candidate Donald J. Trump and disparaged presidential candidate Hillary Clinton. Is that not what thousands of interested Americans also did?
    2 – A Russian intelligence operation hacked “entities, employees and volunteers working on the Clinton Campaign” and then released stolen documents, primarily through WikiLeaks. Translation: the Russians exposed the truth about the Clinton campaign and the DNC, by revealing information Mrs Clinton would rather have kept secret.

    Apparently the Russians wanted Mr Trump to win the election, and Mrs Clinton to lose it; so did 63 million American citizens.

    Of course, we knew all of that already, and I’ll say again what I’ve said many times before: if it was Russian interference which provided the tipping point which kept Hillary Clinton a private citizen, we owe Vladimir Putin a debt of gratitude which can never be fully repaid.

    Donald Trump is an [insert slang term for the rectum here], but I don’t care that he’s a personal scumbag; that’s a problem for those who interact with him. Hillary Clinton, on the other hand, is a dishonest scheming person, whose policies would have negatively affected the entire country. We are much better off with Mr Trump as President.

    The patriotic Dana (10ea9e)

  54. No collusion. Refusal to carry out obstruction by staff. good but…

    lany (de78b2)

  55. if it was Russian interference which provided the tipping point which kept Hillary Clinton a private citizen, we owe Vladimir Putin a debt of gratitude which can never be fully repaid.

    What a disgusting comment.

    Dave (1bb933)

  56. @56. Unless you have self-incriminating tapes, of course. Plug either Clinton or Obama’s name into this narrative and the Right would already have the articles drawn up by dusk- and a rope over a tree limb.

    OTOH, some guys can ‘beat the rap’ relying on their charm and wit — just as they have all their lives: “This is the end of my Presidency. I’m fvcked.”- President Donald J. Trump

    Too funny.

    [Expletive deleted!] – Richard Nixon

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  57. ‘Course in school rooms and universities across Russia, China, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, North Korea and assorted lands of dubious distinction, this will be just another teachable example of why ‘that system’ doesn’t work well.

    … and Putin smiled.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  58. 34. Colonel, as a ‘gray middle American’ – better you not know there’s horse meat in you chili, Haiku.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  59. don’t teach philosophy kids:

    https://twitter.com/alimhaider/status/1118944706652790786

    narciso (d1f714)

  60. “It seems clear from reading volume 2 that the only reason Trump wasn’t charged with obstruction is that they decided at the outset that he would not be so charged, regardless of the evidence.”

    Such was, in fact, true from the very beginning, as the SC no longer had the authority to charge after Congress found it highly inconvenient for the Clintons of the world. Fair…is fair!

    On the other hand, they also found no prior crimes (‘obstruction of justice’ or anything post-investigation is, of course, laughable for all those familiar with the usual procedures) in their highly generalized investigation to speak of. Investigations without crimes, of course, are the type of thing you normally see in banana republics, but that seems to be the governing structure that corporations prefer: easy to bribe for or against any inconvenient target with a minimum of responsibility falling back on you. Congressional authority is held as of paramount importance: the mass of weakmen who take your bribes for cheap must be ever set against the strongmen who don’t.

    So the NeverTrumpers have, as usual, earned their derision and exile from the mainstream. Feel free to join the violent and rebellious left in their rotten and lawless districts and continue to talk high-mindedly about the separation of powers and the duty to treat everyone the same. We’ll be sure to send your rebellious provinces, gated communities, and ‘sanctuary’ districts every criminal you shamefully failed to provide the cash to jail, without discrimination or favoritism.

    Johnny Law (0e55f9)

  61. now do Loretta lynch, re the Clinton investigation, or eric holder, re fast and furious,

    narciso (d1f714)

  62. an investigation, re a current and future official, who committed multiple prima facie felonies, n

    narciso (d1f714)

  63. Had Hillary been elected we might have had a Special Counsel’s report released this week

    I’m not sure there is an alternate reality where this is true but I know it’s not in this one. She lost the election to someone who campaigned on putting her in jail and she’s still out laundering money she pulled in during her time in office. Winning the election would not have caused something that was already swept under the rug to be dragged back out.

    frosty48 (8c6334)

  64. Dave wrote:

    if it was Russian interference which provided the tipping point which kept Hillary Clinton a private citizen, we owe Vladimir Putin a debt of gratitude which can never be fully repaid.

    What a disgusting comment.

    Oh, I knew that some here would dislike my statement, as it received negative comments previously. But keeping Mrs Clinton a private citizen is something that most conservatives saw as vitally important, and a tremendous benefit to our nation and the world. I just happen to be the one plain-spoken enough to say it.

    Interestingly enough, according to The Washington Post, the Russians also tried to help Bernie Sanders:

    The report provides a fresh look at allegations that the Russian-based Internet Research Agency not only interfered in the 2016 campaign on social media on behalf of Donald Trump but also to help Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), a candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination.

    Internal IRA documents “referred to support for the Trump campaign and opposition to candidate Clinton,” according to the report. While much of this section of the report is redacted, it cites directions to IRA operators not to harm Sanders.

    “Main idea: Use any opportunity to criticize Hillary [Clinton] and the rest (except Sanders and Trump — we support them),” quotes the report.

    Seems as though President Putin really didn’t like Mrs Clinton, which is fair enough: the same is true about me, and I suspect the same is true about most of the denizens of this fine site. We are clearly much better off with Mrs Clinton signing autographs than we would have been with her signing executive orders.

    The very patriotic Dana (10ea9e)

  65. “All the people who believed Sarah Sanders’ bull about how Comey was hated in the FBI, or who mocked the NYT story saying Trump ordered McGahn to fire Mueller: you’re all ready to issue your mea culpas, right?”

    Well, if any of us still cared about those two nitpicks at this time, we’re not all on Permanent Mueller Vendetta mode and getting one or two points closer to right than wrong while getting most of the rest of the case and the outcome completely wrong is probably cold comfort for you at this point.

    And we’re not in a particularly magnanimous mood, given that you’re not showing yourself all that apologetic or understanding on the things you were wrong…or at least wrongheaded, on.

    And after all, many of the most responsible parties have still redacted their names and locations concerning what they were doing prior to the “start” of the investigation on July 31, 2016. (Spoiler: The answers are “in London” and “using foreign intelligence to spy on Trump”.)

    Johnny Law (b9ed36)

  66. “Go look up the story about how Sarah Sanders made sh!t up about Comey.”
    Patterico (3ba0dc) — 4/18/2019 @ 12:26 pm

    Had she been smart, she would’ve put the made up sh!t in a dossier and peddled it through a DOJ connected spouse, so as to become instantly legit and FISA ready.

    But, she’s dumb.

    Munroe (f6fb40)

  67. As a private citizen, Trump would be facing a jury, Clinton a divorce attorney.

    Please, Colonel Klink, don’t fall into the trap that all Bill Clinton did was lie about a little ol’ matter of sex. He committed perjury himself and he suborned perjury from Betty Curie and who-all knows who else. I know it’s been a long time, but I think there were also matters in which he attempted to conceal and destroy evidence, such as asking Monica to return the gifts that he gave her. Democrats have spent the last two decades insisting that Clinton was impeached simply because he received fellatio from a White House intern; we’re supposed to be the people who know better and have more respect for the law.

    I honestly don’t know enough about the Mueller Report or the whole Trump-Russia thing to have formed a definite opinion, but it certainly wouldn’t surprise me if there is plenty of stuff in Trump’s business and personal life for which a man of lesser means would have been convicted.

    JVW (04dc29)

  68. The big question is, will enough voters care to make a difference in 2020? IMO yes, and if you’re a Trump supporter, that’s why his malfeasance oughta bother you, though I know for most it doesn’t. I kinda hope Bernie Sanders is the nominee and he wins. Y’all would deserve that :) . I mean, if we’re gonna go bankrupt anyway, might as well get some free college and healthcare :0) w00t.

    JRH (14e837)

  69. The Dana who likes to try to divert attention

    Hey, hey, look at this other thing over here that is not this thing, but look at it. Whatabout a thing that I can pose as a strawman that…squirrel…

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  70. Yeah, yeah, ah, yeah
    He runs his mouth like there’s no tomorrow
    And all he’s got, ain’t no big deal
    Pray he won’t be holdin’ a bag o’ sorrow
    Yes he’s spinnin’ at a pace that kills
    Ooh, yeah
    (Ahh)
    Runnin’ with the Schiffer
    (Ahh-hah, yeah)
    (Woo-hoo-oo)
    Runnin’ with the Schiffer

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  71. You really have to wonder why Putin would be so upset with HRC. It’s not like she interfered in Russian politics or anything.

    If only we had our own local expert on Putin’s emotions so that we could work it out.

    frosty48 (8c6334)

  72. now we are expected to credit Robert mueller for not indicting, well ask dr. Stephen hatfill about that,

    narciso (d1f714)

  73. well he was told to expect more flexibility, and it didn’t turn out that way.

    narciso (d1f714)

  74. I hope the host brought his Rolaids to work today.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  75. JRH wrote:

    I kinda hope Bernie Sanders is the nominee and he wins.

    Given that the Mueller Report states that the Russians tried to help Mr Sanders against Mrs Clinton, I’m guessing that his campaign just turned to toast, and not just any toast, but toast that has fallen on the floor, buttered side down.

    The very amused Dana (10ea9e)

  76. I imagine there was much agita among his coworkers,

    https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2019/04/did-mueller-predetermine-not-to-say-trump-committed-a-crime.php

    the truth is the evidence for the assertions were lacking, it’s more assertion,

    narciso (d1f714)

  77. “Had she been smart, she would’ve put the made up sh!t in a dossier and peddled it through a DOJ connected spouse, so as to become instantly legit and FISA ready.”

    Word.

    harkin (e15868)

  78. “The Attorney General is not the president’s personal lawyer, although he may feel he is.”

    —- Adam Schiff

    If you are of a mind that this is a sensible position to hold, you’ve lost your marbles.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  79. And one final reminder for all those ‘OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE!!!’ criers:

    “Trump being angry they were trying to pull a soft coup on him that would see him and his family jailed and ruined for all time is just proof he was guilty!!” is the kind of thing that really does start the kind of civil unrest that quickly goes to war.

    Johnny Law (b7b602)

  80. Now that we have the report,
    “‘Taint true,” the Democrats snort!
    They have waxed wroth
    While Republicans scoff
    “Ain’t nothing’ that can go to court!

    The Limerick Avenger (10ea9e)

  81. The Mueller Report
    Ain’t all it’s cracked up to be
    Trump will have two terms

    The Haiku Avenger (10ea9e)

  82. Sam Stein
    @samstein
    Senior House Dem aide tells me the messaging from Dems is that Mueller needs to come to the Hill and that full documents are needed. Hoyer ruling out impeachment was “clearly off message.”

    Sorry, chief, it’s PR all the way down!

    Johnny Law (b5377a)

  83. @58. ‘… and Mrs. Clinton to lose it; so did 63 million Americans.’

    Actually, nearly 66 million Americans voted for HRC and wanted her to win. But go figure, ‘soviet-style,’ eh, comrade…

    ‘…we owe Vladimir Putin a debt of gratitude…’

    Yes, plenty of ‘gratuities’ due from oligarchs and Trumpeters– at 15% interest. When are you scheduled to guest lecture at Moscow University, comrade?

    … and Putin smiled.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  84. Hill’ry screamed “It’s just like I said!
    Putin and Trump were in bed!
    It’s just a sin
    That I didn’t win,”
    But her hopes are still very dead.

    The Limerick Avenger (10ea9e)

  85. they just have to get those votes in Wisconsin, ohio and michigan, this time, instead of racking up extra votes in California,

    narciso (d1f714)

  86. Anyone who posts the Trump “This is the end of my presidency, I’m f****d” quote without adding the following comments for context:

    Everyone tells me if you get one of these independent counsels it ruins your presidency. It takes years and years and I won’t be able to do anything. This is the worse thing that ever happened to me.’”

    …..can go play their TDS kazoo.

    Which means kazoo sales through da roof.

    harkin (e15868)

  87. I kinda hope Bernie Sanders is the nominee and he wins.

    Hey, you’re in good company! Ann Coulter hopped on the Bernie Bus today (well, conditionally…)

    She “doesn’t care about the rest of the socialist stuff.” Allahpundit wonders if she’s thought this through:

    Tell me this. Among the various arguments made by righties against illegal immigration — cultural, economic, political — one that turns up in almost every critique of comprehensive immigration reform is electoral, namely, the fear that millions of illegals will vote Democratic once they’re granted citizenship. “They come from statist systems. Give them a ballot in the U.S. and they’ll opt for statism here too, especially with Democrats promising them the sun, moon, and stars in benefits to win their votes. We’ll end up with socialism.” Now here’s Coulter claiming that the alleged nightmare scenario, socialism, is actually … just fine as a trade-off so long as it means keeping low-skilled Mexicans out. What’s left of the electoral argument against amnesty?

    Dave (1bb933)

  88. DCSCA wrote:

    When are you scheduled to guest lecture at Moscow University, comrade?

    It’s Moscow State University, not Moscow University. Why? Do you want tickets?

    I tried to post this in Russian, but the system rejected it. :(

    The Dana who speaks Russian (10ea9e)

  89. It was University Of Idaho last time I was in Moscow.

    harkin (e15868)

  90. What we’ve got here is the classic glass-half-full verse glass is full of $%#! situation. One group says there is a lot of good information produced by a score of highly trained people from the DOJ who spent two years trying to find a smoking gun. These highly trained people, some would say top men, have reported that they didn’t not find a smoking gun and that they did, in fact, find many gun-shaped objects and some others that are emitting things that some people under certain conditions might report as smoking.

    The other group is looking around for some rubber gloves and some place to dump $%#!.

    frosty48 (8c6334)

  91. but but but but but
    there’s a pony in that pile!
    no that’s a donkey

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  92. “For most everyday Americans — except those Democrats and media members who remain intent on doubling down on their false narrative — the Mueller report will end the Russia collusion debate, once and for all.

    On the question of obstruction, there is a less satisfying conclusion but still some important lessons, starting with Trump.

    As commander in chief, his words matter and can be construed as orders, good or bad. Temper tantrums might be fine in the confines of a CEO’s office or a board room. But on the national and global stages, where the U.S. president is the world’s most powerful figure, they are inappropriate coming from the Oval Office.

    Mueller’s report won’t resolve the question entirely of obstruction. Democrats will spin the Barr-Rosenstein decision as an effort to protect the president, and Republicans will declare victory. Mueller’s whiff on a final, independent call actually may have been a disservice to us all.

    But one lesson from this debacle, which Americans might find applicable to both the courts of law and public opinion, is worth grasping: A guilty man’s conduct to get rid of prosecutors, to impact witnesses or to impugn an investigation looks a lot more like obstruction than an innocent man’s similar actions during an effort to defend himself from bogus allegations.

    In the absence of provable charges, the presumption of innocence still reigns supreme.”

    The Lesson On Mueller: An innocent man’s defense can look like a guilty man’s obstruction

    https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/439529-the-lesson-of-mueller-an-innocent-mans-defense-can-look-like-a-guilty

    harkin (e15868)

  93. @86 and @93; I get the feeling that there are a lot of Republicans who’s biggest issue with Trump is that he doesn’t roll over. It sets a bad precedent. This is why it’s so important to mock the ‘He Fights!’ strawman. Got to make sure everyone knows Republicans aren’t supposed to do that.

    frosty48 (8c6334)

  94. Oh, noes! Teh hated john solomon!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  95. “Democrats will spin the Barr-Rosenstein decision as an effort to protect the president…”

    Democrats and other goofy mooks…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  96. no that’s a donkey

    It’s not just any donkey. It’s a very upset donkey that’s made it across from Tijuana seeking asylum.

    frosty48 (8c6334)

  97. clearly he’s mr. neutron,

    https://twitter.com/jabeale/status/1118926154327560192

    for all that trouble, he should have shouldered the rosneft deal, he would have made a decent commission, and it wouldn’t have gone sidewise,

    narciso (d1f714)

  98. Those Tijuana donkeys are probably happy right where they are!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  99. the donkey from doom patrol (is that too obscure a reference,

    narciso (d1f714)

  100. In the absence of provable charges, the presumption of innocence still reigns supreme.

    Except it’s now “presumption of not exonerated”. That other thing is obsolete.

    Munroe (9700fc)

  101. Anyone who posts the Trump “This is the end of my presidency, I’m f****d” quote without adding the following comments for context:

    “Everyone tells me if you get one of these independent counsels it ruins your presidency. It takes years and years and I won’t be able to do anything. This is the worse thing that ever happened to me.’”</em.

    Only thing one can add to this, is, remember Raymond Donovan. (You can Google it.)

    Bored Lawyer (998177)

  102. “In the absence of provable charges, the presumption of innocence still reigns supreme.”

    Let’s not overstate this. The presumption of innocence is a rule in criminal court. It is not a rule in the court of public opinion.

    There are millions of people who think OJ Simpson got away with murder. The “presumption of innocence” has nothing to do with it.

    Bored Lawyer (998177)

  103. they haven’t blamed the Russians yet, but give them time:

    https://twitter.com/ezralevant/status/1118941100553723905

    narciso (d1f714)

  104. The Dems didn’t get their colludin’
    And they won’t get any obstruction
    Their dreams in the sh!tter
    But Schiff’s not a quitter
    Though pencil-neck may require reconstruction

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  105. For the June 9 Trump Tower meeting (volume 1, pages 182-188) the report says that solicitation of assistance from the Russian government to influence the election

    “… could implicate the federal election-law ban on contributions and donations by foreign nations 52 USC 30121(a)(1)(A) [which is the precise statute I’ve cited here multiple times]. Specifically, Goldstone passed along an offer purportedly from a Russian government official to provide “official documents and information” to the Trump campaign for the purposes of influencing the presidential elections. Trump Jr. appears to have accepted that offer and to have arranged a meeting to receive these materials. Documentary evidence in the form of email chains supports the inference that Kushner and Manafort were aware of that purpose and attended the June 9 meeting anticipating the receipt of helpful information to the Campaign from Russian sources.

    The Office considered whether this evidence would establish a conspiracy to violate the foreign contributions ban, in violation of 18 USC 371; the solicitation of an illegal foreign-source contribution; or the acceptance or receipt of ‘an express or implied promise to make a [foreign -source] contribution.’ both in violation of 52USC30121(a)(1)(A),(a)(2). There are reasonable arguments that the offered information would constitute a “thing of value” within the meaning of these provisions, but the Office determined that the government would not be likely to obtain and sustain a conviction for two other reasons: first, the Office did not obtain admissible evidence likely to meet the government’s burden to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that these individuals acted “willfully,” i.e. with general knowledge of the illegality of their conduct; and, second, the government would likely encounter difficulty in proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the value of the promised information exceeded the threshold for a criminal violation.”

    The report goes on to make a fairly detailed legal argument that the actus reus was present but then concludes that proving the mens reus would have been difficult. In effect, he says it would be a possible defense to argue that Jr, Kushner and Manafort were too stupid to know that enlisting Russian government agents to help the campaign was against the law.

    Overall it sounds a lot like Comey’s stated rationale for declining to prosecute Hillary.

    Dave (1bb933)

  106. the Toynbee convector explains that bizarre fever dream, that she put up on the intercept,

    narciso (d1f714)

  107. Narciso, going real low on both exits would explain that stumpy ethnic rotund goof’s apparent “game” with semi famous slender blonde women (G. Conway dated Laura Ingraham and was good friends with A. Coulter).

    urbanleftbehind (6a358f)

  108. well coulter has gone jerry Garcia crazy for Bernie, reasons, (yes it’s a double metaphor, since she was a dead head)

    narciso (d1f714)

  109. Schiff now says he “continue[s] to think impeachment is not in the national interest.”

    What. A. Douche.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  110. and hoyer says nay, but the cannibals must feed (the apocalypse now reference is intentional)

    narciso (d1f714)

  111. From Ben Shapiro… who rarely if ever has a love for Trump.

    Pretty amazing how quickly the media have swiveled away from Russian collusion — the purported cause of this entire shebang — to obstruction, which is largely based on the president acting angrily and erratically regarding collusion accusations.

    I think if you want to understand the great unwashed and their willingness to give a pass to Trump on whatever there is there on obstructing, you have to see that people get angry when they have to defend themselves over something they did not do (collusion), so when Trump does it, they think that is normal. Of course, he’s mad and wants it to stop. Who doesn’t feel that way? Of course, Trump was mad they were going after his family… what Father wouldn’t be?

    Chris Christie gave the President some good advice when he told Trump there was no way to make the investigation end sooner, but there were a lot of ways to make it go longer. Trump was angry, I don’t know if I’d call him erratic but at times he for sure has poor impulse control and in this setting, Trump is lucky he backed off and didn’t fire anyone beyond Comey.
    As it stands, obstruction here turned out to be a pretty weak sauce, but Trump came close to letting anger get the best of him.

    steveg (e7a56b)

  112. how long did the bridge investigation go on for again, there’s a reason I called him stay puft,

    narciso (d1f714)

  113. narciso… I guess we just need to remember that the folks who will now spin, rant and rave about obstruction are the same crowd who were ranting and raving about collusion for well over two years.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  114. A wealthy woman was once approached by a man offering to sell a rare painting.

    The wealthy woman declined.

    And like Democrats and today’s vexed anti-Trumpians, the man screeched: “But you HAVE to buy it! My wife’s been painting months to make it!”

    Harcourt Fenton Mudd (5e0a82)

  115. Trump should send Schiff a jar of Vaseline without sand in it.

    nk (dbc370)

  116. @95. 66 million… 63 million… details, details… You’re in the running for MVP, today comrade:
    ___________

    Patriot Games

    Running score:

    Rule of Men: 88
    Rule of Law: 0

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  117. And in the cases of McDonnell Stevens delay and Chisholm’s deferred witchhunt what was the score?

    Narciso (5407cd)

  118. Better for 100 guilty men to go free than for one Democrat not to get apoplexy in frustration.

    nk (dbc370)

  119. @127. “Baghdad Barr” [copyright pending, NBC News] can lend him his– there’s still a little left.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  120. On the eve of Easter and Passover, too, when it’s not as convenient to make the talking head rounds.

    nk (dbc370)

  121. @130. … and Putin smiled.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  122. I think that what all of the Trumpers are failing to realize is just how damaging the Mueller report really is. For example, and I’m just taking the easy stuff here, if you go to page 32, take all of the words and rearrange them you’ll get the IRA recruited Trump. And that’s just if you just look at a single page. If you take the document as a whole there are plenty of iron-clad reason to impeach.

    frosty48 (8c6334)

  123. Not to mention that if you rearrange T-R-U-M-P and make the R an I and the M an N, you get P-U-T-I-N.

    nk (dbc370)

  124. “Actually, nearly 66 million Americans voted for HRC and wanted her to win.”

    Allegedly. The investigation also sucked a lot of oxygen out of the abuse of the typical urban machine politics, but with some smarter census questioning and voter roll cleaning, we’ll soon find out just how many of those 66 million were real, live, and vetted Americans who pay taxes and have families and not ringers, coolie labor, hirelings, slaves, and Excel padding.

    “and Putin smiled.”

    Putin can smile all he wants, his geopolitical influence and reach is negligible and he’s not doing anything nefarious on China’s scale. His existence does seem to trigger the Lefty petit-bourgeoise class who thought the Soviets would ensure Russia remained forever an ally, though.

    But they get far madder over a simple corrupt strongman who may have occasionally skull bashed a few journalists than a dictator who murders millions, writes and rewrites his own country’s history wholesale, builds gigantic and all-consuming surveillance systems that the US has only recently caught up to, or insists beyond evidence and reason that Taiwan is totally China.

    Which is a good lesson for those who would ever be tempted to listen to them. Charlatans studiously avoid any talk of magnitude or comparison, there is only good and badman.

    Johnny Law (58fd72)

  125. You see this every day in a court: The prosecutor lays out the evidence and if he is unable to prove the defendant is innocent of the crime, he’s probably guilty. Right? Or have a missed something?

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  126. “Actually, nearly 66 million Americans voted for HRC and wanted her to win.”

    And how many voters in blue states didn’t bother to show up? We can play this game all you want, but the actual numbers don’t matter — it’s like hits in baseball.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  127. 317. Pfft. Thanks for playing, comrade.

    Vat do whee have for his dacha, Natasha?!?!..

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  128. There are millions of people who think OJ Simpson got away with murder. The “presumption of innocence” has nothing to do with it.

    As did the jury in the civil suit. Poor example.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  129. ^137. typo.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  130. What IS a rule in the court of public opinion is whether you are a D or an R, given who the “lawyers” are.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  131. @139. Showing up is 90% of the game.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  132. Go look up the story about how Sarah Sanders made shit up about Comey.

    Especially when it was hardly necessary.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  133. @143. See #61.

    Censure or impeachment w/Senate acquittal; our Captain wins either way and wears it as a winning badges of honor. There are no patriots in Congress today.

    Check the score…

    Rule of Men: 99
    Rule of Law: 0

    … and Putin beams.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  134. I must remember to bowdlerize our host’s language when quoting him at times. There’s a comment stuck at 144.5

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  135. So, the report says 1) That there is a lot of smoke, but no fire regarding collusion and 2) that it is hard to determine what Trump’s motives were in potential acts of obstruction.

    Clearly the failure on point one made a difference. Acts taken by an innocent man, that would be obstruction if done by a guilty man, are far more ambiguous when there are other explanations (e.g. “Comey screwed up the Hillary thing, he’s screwing this up, too.”)

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  136. Thing I found interesting in reading the Executive summary of V1 of the Mueller report.

    1. I still can’t stop thinking Irish Republican Army when I see IRA. (I have a similar problem with BLM being Bureau of Land Management in my brain)

    2. The Less-than-brilliant people who spent the last three years repeating pro-Trump Russian propaganda still don’t realize they are repeating pro-Trump Russian propaganda.

    3. One of the reasons the Trump campaign is said to have not quite conspired with the Russians is that they failed at it. They intended to, but they failed. (V1, pg 6, 1st full paragraph)

    4. Jared Kushner’s friend conspired with the Russians and Jared passed the plan his friend and a Russian agent came up with to Bannon and Tillerson. (are they still friends? I don’t think I’d want to be friends with someone who almost got me thrown in jail) (V1, pg 7, post election section)

    5. The Mueller investigation did, in fact, have a rather narrow scope. (V1, pg 8)

    6. There were A LOT of caveats in the decision to charge or not to charge Trump (V1, pg 8/9)

    7. All these people influencing these things for Russia and being influenced by Russia were totally totally acting independently.

    8. There’s a lot of information still out there that the team couldn’t get to due to reasons. (V1, pg 10)

    Nic (896fdf)

  137. Seeing as the only confirmed source propaganda formed the base of this investigation, its amusing, the trump tower meeting was from ths same crew that commissioned the dossier, which had an open pass granted by Loretta lynch,

    Narciso (5407cd)

  138. “If we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that _________ clearly did not commit ________________, we would so state,” the report read. “Based on the facts and the applicable legal standards, we are unable to reach that judgment.”

    This is, of course, the time-honored opening line of every prosecutor in the land. After all, disproving the charge is what prosecutors do!

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  139. He should recognize the mo from places like Cairo and Algiers

    https://mobile.twitter.com/Doranimated/status/1119021559937732610

    Narciso (5407cd)

  140. I have not read the report and have no plans to. Can somebody help a brother out and tell me if there’s a section about how Bernie can still be declared the winner of the 2016 election?

    nk (dbc370)

  141. Well, Bernie did come out of it in a much better place among his party for 2020.

    American Sammy (66c665)

  142. No, he was way too sluggish to take advantage of the opportunity, the unspecified trolls did provide a leveling of resources

    Narciso (5407cd)

  143. Things I found interesting when reading The Mueller Report V1 Part 1

    1. There are two people that were focuses of the investigation that we don’t know about.

    2. There’s a lot of STUFF still outstanding. Ongoing processes, investigations, evidence of other possible crimes passed on to other agencies, etc.

    3. There were way more subpoenas and search warrants than we heard about.

    4. It possible that there was quite a bit of foreign intelligence that we gained due to the investigation.

    Nic (896fdf)

  144. The Russians are coming.

    mg (8cbc69)

  145. Mueller is still chasing down this swizz subsidiary of an Israeli firm, which specialized in middle east consultancy

    Narciso (5407cd)

  146. I think Andrew McCarthy is spot on here:
    https://nypost.com/2019/04/18/mueller-completely-dropped-the-ball-with-obstruction-punt/

    Particularly this:

    if he had been satisfied that there was no obstruction crime, he said, he would have so found. He claimed he wasn’t satisfied. Yet he was also not convinced that there was sufficient proof to charge. Therefore, he made no decision, leaving it to Attorney General William Barr to find that there was no obstruction.
    This is unbecoming behavior for a prosecutor and an outrageous shifting of the burden of proof: The constitutional right of every American to force the government to prove a crime has been committed, rather than to have to prove his or her own innocence.

    This is exactly why prosecutors should never speak publicly about the evidence uncovered in an investigation of someone who isn’t charged. The obligation of the prosecutor is to render a judgment about whether there is enough proof to charge a crime. If there is, the prosecutor indicts; if there is not, the prosecutor remains silent.

    If special counsel Mueller believed there was an obstruction offense, he should have had the courage of his convictions and recommended charging the president. Since he wasn’t convinced there was enough evidence to charge, he should have said he wasn’t recommending charges. Period.

    Anything else was — and is — a smear. Worse than that, it flouts the Constitution.

    whembly (f68468)

  147. I thought Bill Kristol was the distilled essence of the prototypical NeverTrumper attitude, but…BUT!!! I was, in fact, sexistly ignoring the pioneering contributions of women to this field:

    https://i.imgur.com/gy3ErZj.jpg

    American Sammy (3818c7)

  148. If you support the Rule of Law, the proper plan of procedure is for the Dem controlled House to hold hearings on the content of the full report, pass through drafted articles of impeachment if necessary, carry through to a trial in the Republican controlled Senate and force sitting GOP senators to vote for acquittal on the record.

    But the Dems won’t do that; not w/an election 18 months away. Any more than GOP leaders did by stalling a Dem SCOTUS nom for a year, which makes both these parties and its minions champions of Rule by Men.

    Censure? Impeachment? Term Two ahead; ‘Trump Luck’ is in the air– buy that lottery ticket, kids.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  149. @149

    “As set forth in detail in this report, the Special Counsel’s investigation established that Russian interfered in the 2016 presidential election principally through two operations. First, a Russian entity carried out a social media campaign that favored presidential candidate Donald J. Trump and disparaged presidential candidate Hillary Clinton.” pg1. Page 1. The First Page.

    “The IRA later used social media accounts and interest groups to sow discord in the US political system through what is termed ‘Information Warfare.’ The campaign evolved from a generalized program designed in 2014 and 2015 to undermine the US electoral system, to a targeted operation that by early 2016 favored candidate Trump and disparaged candidate Clinton.” (pg4)

    Nic (896fdf)

  150. Notice how meticulous Mueller was to whitewash Comey, his “brother in arms”?

    Yes, I know you noticed, where did you think I got it from?

    nk (dbc370)

  151. They go back as far as 2004, in the plame matter, along with goldsmith, wray (yes that guy) and co.

    Narciso (5407cd)

  152. If you support the Rule of Law, the proper plan of procedure is for the Dem controlled House to hold hearings …

    That’s not the Rule of Law, for one simple reason: The House is a legislative body, not a judicial body.

    It would be the Rule Of Politicians Who See No Further Than Their Re-Election Every Two Years.

    nk (dbc370)

  153. if there’s a section about how Bernie can still be declared the winner of the 2016 election?

    Well, he certainly could be appointed President of the new nation of Pacifica, comprising San Francisco and several bordering counties. There’s lots of OPM there to spend.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  154. Rule Of Politicians Who See No Further Than Their Re-Election Every Two Years.

    …and in this case not too well, either.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  155. @164: And all this was mere noise in the constant din from the media, which were programmed “Vote for Hillary” 24/7.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  156. IRA, not Radio Free America, Nic?

    nk (dbc370)

  157. Suppose we had a Special Prosecutor looking into the collusion among America’s giant media corporations to favor Hillary and disparage Trump in the 2016 election. Since any Democrat will tell you that Freedom of Speech and the Press does not apply to corporations (see Citizen’s United), this could be devastating. It would probably be easy to prove that Hillary had constant contact with them, too.

    The fact that Trump has not proposed any such investigation is OBVIOUSLY obstruction.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  158. The pivot from “collusion” to “obstruction” deserves mocking.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  159. @166. Except it is ‘belief in Rule of Law’ – they don’t have to pass out articles, hence hearings nd deliberations; to suggest otherwise is simply the convenience of immediacy in flank support of Rule by Men. Sad. But John Mitchell would be proud.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  160. Nadler looks like he’s regaining the weight he lost. Even with a complete stomach bypass, you still need to stick to your diet an exercise.

    nk (dbc370)

  161. So the ira is like dick tuck, (a real name your parents) on steroids.

    Narciso (5407cd)

  162. @170. IRA… half the Trumpsters will check in w/Fox Business; the other half will want Hannity’s take on Sinn Fein’s involvement.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  163. Things I found interesting in reading the Mueller report V! part 2

    1. Wow! The propaganda campaign was extensive. (Narciso, this is pg 14 and 15 if you care to read) Side-eye your facebook, instagram, Tumblr, youtube, and twitter if you belong to any of those.

    2. The IRA is still under investigation.

    3. Yep, the IRA was definitely pro-Trump (and Sanders). Per the following quote from an internal IRA doc, “Main idea: Use any opportunity to criticize Hillary [Clinton] and the rest (except Sanders and Trump – we support them),” Ted Cruz people should be pissed about this one.

    4. Dear God they reached a lot of people. No, really, side-eye your social media.

    5. GO READ THIS PART (vol 1 part 2)! IGNORE THE TRUMP STUFF IF YOU WANT, JUST LOOK AT THE METHOD OF OPERATION!

    6. A lot of the propaganda got to legit public political accounts (because people will apparently retweet anything that reinforces their ideas).

    7. The Trump campaign helped out some of these organizations but didn’t seem to realize they were foreign propaganda groups because apparently no one does back-ground checks.

    Nic (896fdf)

  164. Ask your parents, you know what straight up Soviet propaganda, nuclear winter, aids created at ft. Dietrich, much of the Kennedy conspiracies that Oliver stone trawled in. Get a clue and some sense of prospective

    Narciso (5407cd)

  165. @170 I believe I said something similar in an earlier thread, but if the people of countries choose to investigate Radio Free America, it is within their purview. People are free to object to violations of their own laws should they choose to do so.

    OTOH, nk, if you are fine with Russian interference in US elections, that’s your choice. However it isn’t mine.

    Nic (896fdf)

  166. Climate change.

    nk (dbc370)

  167. Now some half baked rumors handed from oligarchs to a burnt british spy, they succeeded more than Putin could have dreamed.

    Narciso (5407cd)

  168. “Staggering ignorance or willful indifference:”

    Maybe they should read “two corinthians.”

    Davethulhu (9847a2)

  169. @172 The MSM, every politician, etc. who pimped russia-gate should be double-checked if they say the sun is shining and you can’t see it at the same time.

    Continuing to gaslight on this deserves relentless mocking.

    If Trump is so horrible why did we need russia-gate and an IC to take him down? If he’s so incompetent why didn’t it work? If his policies are so bad they should be easy to pull apart no?

    I’ve got issues with Trump but when I show up at the Trump complaint room and it’s full of clowns I keep walking. Not a fan of clowns.

    frosty48 (6226c1)

  170. @178 You mean my dad? The 70-something former Republican retired Army Colonel who has been reading this thing all day and sending me more and more infuriated texts the more he reads? That parent? The one who is incredibly furious at the Republicans willing to sell out the country he risked his life to protect to the country he risked his life protecting our country against? That parent? Or my mom whose response to this was “I had to turn off the TV. Your dad was yelling at that pudgy anchor on Fox and I was afraid he was going to have another heart attack. Fox just tells lies, I don’t know why your father watches them.” Which of those parents do you think would lend me your prospective?

    Nic (896fdf)

  171. No use, they see the five lights,

    You were close half of the anti fracking propaganda came from Russia, to be fair so did the Michael mann ‘hide the decline’ revelation

    Narciso (5407cd)

  172. Cant call that audible but an uncle was the battlefield at giron beach, the betrayal struck him so hard he shot himself 28 years later. Others I knew were the pilots who flew in ths Congo against ches forces

    Narciso (5407cd)

  173. And who is still spouting that ouvno, practically the entire democratic field including super star ocasio Cortez,

    Narciso (5407cd)

  174. I dont find anything amusing or cute about communists, which is the democratic touchstone when it’s not Islamists, we can tell the difference

    Narciso (5407cd)

  175. Yet he was also not convinced that there was sufficient proof to charge.

    This is exactly wrong. It is a lie by McCarthy, who has been a dishonest shill for Trump from the beginning.

    The report says they ruled out charging the president with obstruction from the beginning, and under no circumstances, regardless of the evidence, would they have said there was sufficient proof to charge:

    Third, we considered whether to evaluate the conduct we investigated under the Justice Manual standards governing prosecution and declination decisions, but we determined not to apply an approach that could potentially result in a judgment that the President committed crimes. [emphasis added]

    The investigation was rigged, but it was rigged in Trump’s favor.

    Dave (1bb933)

  176. Not exactly, Mr. Dave. Here it is in plain English:
    “We decided not to follow the usual police and prosecutorial procedure of collaring a suspect and building a case against him while he’s cooling his heels in the pokey, because although that works with most of the riffraff we pick up off the streets it wouldn’t work against the President of the United States.”

    nk (dbc370)

  177. Things I thought were interesting in reading the Mueller report V1 part 3

    1. The GRU has way too many fingers in the cyber world. Can we just punch the entire country of Russia in the face? Better, lets punch their bank accounts in the face and confiscate enough money to pay for this AND any ongoing investigations AND the cost of converting every voting machine in the country to optical scanners that use paper ballots. How about we do that?

    2. People running computer networks should be knowledgeable about malware and data leaks and monitor outgoing and incoming data and how to track packet loss and memory leaks (which are not the same as data leaks).

    3. All the people who thought Guccifer 2.0 and DCLeaks weren’t russian were Wrong Wrong Wrong.

    4. I wish I were surprised that Wikileaks is terrible. But I watched that original interview with Assange and I knew he was a weasel.

    5. Seeing the vague outline of how they used cyber investigative techniques is interesting.

    6. At the end of this section, I’m not even interested in the interactions between the Trump campaign and Wikileaks. I really want a more muscular response toward Russian interference and for whoever our people are to pry all those GRU fingers off of US stuff and then brick the GRU servers. Brick them hard.

    10. Hillary Clinton was NOT for sale. Otherwise Putin would have just bought her instead of trying to influence both ends of the political spectrum.

    Nic (896fdf)

  178. The Chinese stole 20 million confidential dossiers that overlaps with the 143 million lost from Equifax, we actually lost a whole network of assets in China in that interval

    Narciso (5407cd)

  179. Wikileaks was just a venue when the army decides that mentally disturbed persons deserve a uniform much less an intelligence bullet and make ready access possible, the puzzle palace didnt heed the lesson four years later, but Assange was celebrated then.

    Narciso (5407cd)

  180. nic @184. Narciso @178 meant ask your parents (if they know, and if they are informed they should know) about previous Russian – then Soviet – propaganda efforts compared to which this effort at influencing the 2016 election pales in comparison.

    There was:

    1. Nuclear winter.

    A claim that nuclear weapons are terrible (which we kind of knew anyway) but it was that they’re terrible for a new reason – if there is nuclear exchange, not only will many millions or a high percentage of the world’s population be killed and the atmosphere poisoned, but it will be very cold for several years and therefore we must have a “nuclear freeze” which means cancelling Reagan’s planned deployment of more nuclear weapons.

    2. AIDS created at Ft. Dietrich,

    This was a meme that originated in the Soviet Union – that AIDS was created in a U.S. government laboratory. It was abig prblem in U.S. relations with the soviet Union, although it didn’ get too much publicity becuse the means by which this was monitored were secret. Russia is probably behind the anti-vaccination propaganda nowadays, too.

    3.Much of the Kennedy conspiracies that Oliver stone trawled in. [although the champion was te Natioal Enquirer.]

    Yes, the Soviet Union was spreading Kennedy assassination theories – ones that blamed anti- Castro Cubans rather than the more logical pro-Castro Cubans – I mean which side was Oswald on??

    The only plausible conspiracy is, at least at the operational level, Texas Democrats, led by the Chairman of the Executive Committee of the Texas Democratic Party, the former college roommate and friend of Texas Governor John Connally, Eugene Locke, with thhe goal of making Lyndon Baines Johnson president, but operating behind LBJ’s back, and, in fact, tricking Governor Connally into playing a crucial role in the conspiracy by making sure the parade route passed the Texas School Book Depository. See Footnote 1 on page 25 of William Manchester’s The Death of a President and apprpriate text. And because the first plan fell apart, this involved recruiting Oswald as a last resort substitute killer under a false flag by fooling him into thinking he was acting on behalf of the KGB. Oh, if so, Locke tried to keep Governor Connally out of the car with President Kennedy, but he couldn’t tell LBJ the real reason so although LBJ had a heated argument about that, he gave in and stopped arguing, and Locke’s friend and best connection John Connally got shot and early got killed by his plot. This would make a much better movie.

    Sammy Finkelman (30b6b6)

  181. I’ll take “Things that didn’t age well” for $500, Alex.

    There was perhaps Ukrainian free lance hackers they use the x agent. Guccifer was clearly Romanian and Bryce the head of criwdstrstrike should have known that.

    Narciso (c31c88) — 4/14/2019 @ 4:15 pm

    Davethulhu (9847a2)

  182. half the Trumpsters will check in w/Fox

    Whenever the near-monolithic liberal media is brought up, the liberals make a beeline for “what about Fox”. Kind of like the Soviets going on about Samizdat.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  183. Based on what intact devi e did they base that determination, that’s right there is none.

    Narciso (5407cd)

  184. ‘Maybe they should read “two corinthians.” ‘

    AKA In religious circles as Second Corinthians…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  185. The funny thing coronello is they still dont know what it’s about.

    Narciso (5407cd)

  186. It’s the attendant sneer as that against Bryan in the scopes trial, by darrow.

    Narciso (5407cd)

  187. “AKA In religious circles as Second Corinthians…”

    Yes, that’s the joke.

    https://www.cnn.com/2016/01/20/politics/donald-trump-tony-perkins-sarah-palin/index.html

    Bonus Trump blaming someone else and making things up.

    Davethulhu (9847a2)

  188. Not a good day for the fugazy owner. LOL.

    Lol (526aa5)

  189. Yes CNN isnt evidence of anything except shallow thinking

    http://meaninginhistory.blogspot.com/2019/04/mueller-on-obstruction.html?m=1

    Narciso (5407cd)

  190. The investigation was rigged, but it was rigged in Trump’s favor.

    It was truly amazing to see that spread through the standard conspiracy outlets today. Wasn’t Mueller being in on it one of the Q theories?

    The investigation was rigged only to the degree the choices of outcome were limited. To the degree that rigged implies Mueller, or anyone in the investigation, was trying to clear Trump, i.e. in his favor, it is not an accurate statement.

    under no circumstances, regardless of the evidence, would they have said there was sufficient proof to charge

    This is simply not supported by the report. The report says they wouldn’t charge. The second consideration says they’re collecting information for the possible future prosecution of the President and if individuals other than the President committed an obstruction offense, they may be prosecuted at this time. Was anyone indicted for obstruction?

    There are a lot of people hanging their hat on the fourth consideration. But the fourth consideration details a standard of proof from fantasy land. The prosecutor has to have confidence that clearly no crime occurred. What sort of standard is that given that here intent plays such a large role?

    If you want to hold on to this crap feel free. But it’s toxic to your critical thinking skills and overall wellbeing.

    frosty48 (6226c1)

  191. “Yes CNN isnt evidence of anything except shallow thinking”

    Well, you’re not wrong in this case, because it has a bunch of Trump quotes.

    Davethulhu (9847a2)

  192. Hillary Clinton was NOT for sale. Otherwise Putin would have just bought her instead of trying to influence both ends of the political spectrum.

    She wasn’t for sale to Russia. She’s already going back and forth between the Chinese and one of the Saudi factions.

    frosty48 (6226c1)

  193. It’s never been purely a monetary transaction with the Clintons. The relationship is deeper and relies on a long history and on trust.

    Putin became convinced Hillary was committed against him and/or thought she had principles. That Hillary let him think so might be chalked up to incompetence perhaps.

    The reason he thought Hillary was dead set against him is probably because Victoria Nuland was instrumental in the Maiden Revolution of February 2014 which overhrtew the government of Ukraine. He thought she was one of Hillary’s women and and been acting on her instructions. But Victoria Nuland was not part of her coterie, or oherwise she would have left the State Department with her.

    Putin may have felt Hillary Clinton double-crossed him. Hillary did not disabuse Putin of this notion because she didn’t want Putin to understand her network.

    Sammy Finkelman (30b6b6)

  194. “Apparently it’s not criminal to help foreign agents carry out their plans to disrupt an election,” said campaign manager Robby Mook.

    Says someone who managed the campaign of someone who worked with foreign agents to disrupt the very same election. Most ironic statement of the day? I don’t know. The bar is pretty high today.

    frosty48 (6226c1)

  195. In the case of the Hillary Clinton campaign, it was their plan to use foreign agents. * Mook is referring to foreign agents’ plans using American citizens. Not the same thing.

    * Which they are still not upfront about, by the way – they want people to think some Republican = the Washington Free Beacon first hired Christopher Steele although it’s really too late to pretend that.

    Sammy Finkelman (30b6b6)

  196. Things I thought were interesting in reading the Mueller report V1 part 4

    1. There were way way too many connections between members of the Trump campaign and the Russian connected people. Way way too many.

    2. Why didn’t someone in the campaign care about this. Like, anyone?

    3. It’s very hard to tell how involved Trump himself was or was not in the Moscow deal. It could be that he expected his people to deal with all the details of things independently and just give him broad overviews. It could be that Cohen was hoping to basically give Trump the done deal as a present. It could be that the Trump organization was trying to use a presidential campaign that they didn’t believe was going anywhere as a lever for a lucrative deal and then dropped it when they realized the campaign was going somewhere. I’m inclined to say that this was not a deal likely to influence the Trump organization at least from their viewpoint.

    4. Why can’t they do proper background checks AND hire competent people?

    5. The Trump campaign was only mostly stupid, not entirely stupid.

    6. It was absolutely correct to prosecute Papadopoulos. Also, he was quite young, why did anyone think he was an expert on anything?

    7. Clovis claiming he couldn’t remember attending the TAG summit is a transparent lie. This leads me to believe he is probably lying about everything else regarding Papadopoulos and Russia.

    8. Papadopoulos is an idiot.

    9. Why the hell couldn’t they have hired some people who did business in the US? Or Italy, or something? Why is everyone they hired in business with Russia? Are they all blacklisted by US banks?

    10. Clovis is definitely someone we should know more about. Why don’t we know more about him. He connects the campaign to both the Page Russia stuff and the Papadopoulos stuff. I bet there’s something hiding in the “grand jury” redactions that would tell us more about what he was doing.

    11. The CNI stuff seems more normal and above board that the rest of the weird things in this section.

    12. It looks like Don jr. intended to conspire at the Trump tower meeting. But he failed at it. He did not quid his pro quo well enough. It also looks like there were some attempts at possible obstruction around this in 2017, but they never went anywhere.

    13. I thought the change to the party platform re Russia and Ukraine was weird and, yep, still weird, but I don’t think you can say it was illegal or anything.

    14. Sessions meeting with Kislyak appears to have basically been appropriate.

    15. Manafort was obviously compromised. Obviously. Why, again, can’t they manage to hire competent people without Russian connections? Why is that so hard?

    16. My conclusion: The Trump campaign was definitely compromised by it’s ties to Russia and none of them should have any part in foreign policy decision making or any kind of security clearance, but I don’t know that the campaign as a whole was criminally compromised, though I think they were criminally negligent. They are all dumb dumb dumb and those that haven’t violated the law seem to have only managed not to quite violate the law by accident and luck (or at least not get caught by luck). However the preponderance of evidence seems to suggest the campaign itself probably violated the law at some point, but that isn’t beyond a reasonable doubt. They are all terrible. And lousy Americans.

    17. This section was very long.

    Nic (896fdf)

  197. Unlike halper mifsud and downer (one might consider him a Chinese asset re huawei) Manafort was the second campaign manager just to poach delegates, remember what happened to the first
    .

    Narciso (5407cd)

  198. 210.

    1. There were way way too many connections between members of the Trump campaign and the Russian connected people. Way way too many.

    That’s true, and we don’t have an explanation for it. The best explanation would be some kind of a common source for getting into the campaign. But who, what, where, when and why?

    It looks like Don jr. intended to conspire at the Trump tower meeting. But he failed at it. He did not quid his pro quo well enough. It also looks like there were some attempts at possible obstruction around this in 2017, but they never went anywhere.

    Don jr. was told Russia already supported Trump, and this part of it, so there was no need to agree to do anything. And maybe no decision was reached as to what to do with anything they might be told. It was promoted to them as a leak coming from the chief prosecutor of Russia. Which doesn’t fit well with that being part of Russia’s – that is, Putin’s support. Anyway, several people were there to hear what this was all about.

    The thought that occurs to me is that they intended to lie to Don Jr (and to protect the lie, ask him to not tell anyone) – which would result in Don Jr feeling he had a trusted source in Russia, and he;d later believe other stuff that came from the same person(s).

    continuing…and that the Russians changed their mind when they found ot a number of people were going to be there, including possibly someone smarter or less gullible than Don Jr.

    When this first came out (as a result of obtaining all ssrts of records – records which were not soughtt for from people in the Clinton campaign – who knows what they may have bene up to>) at foirst Don Jr is sued apublic statement that his father supervised the writing of – that told only what happene, not what they went to the meeting expecting to happen.

    When that was not received well, they told the truth, as happened in anumber of incidents involving Trump. Don Jr released the email chain – then his father praised his openness and so on. Except that he had probably told Don Jr to do it probably in consultation with his lawyers.

    Sammy Finkelman (30b6b6)

  199. In reading the report, it looked to me like they wanted a firm commitment on the Magnitsky act and Don jr didn’t give them one, only a vague statement about how things might be different if Trump were elected, but it’s certainly possible they were hoping to play him.

    Nic (896fdf)


Powered by WordPress.

Page loaded in: 0.7558 secs.