Patterico's Pontifications

4/11/2019

Assange Arrested After Ecuador Withdraws Asylum — How Will the Two Parties of the Old GOP React?

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:20 am



BBC:

Wikileaks co-founder Julian Assange has been arrested at the Ecuadorian embassy in London.

Mr Assange took refuge in the embassy seven years ago to avoid extradition to Sweden over a sexual assault case that has since been dropped.

The Met Police said he was arrested for failing to surrender to the court and following a US extradition request.

Ecuador’s president said it withdrew his asylum after repeated violations of international conventions.

But Wikileaks tweeted that Ecuador had acted illegally in terminating Mr Assange’s political asylum “in violation of international law”.

Mr Assange was initially taken to a central London police station before appearing at Westminster Magistrates’ Court on Thursday afternoon.

The reaction to this will be interesting. Conservatives used to despise lawbreakers like Assange. But the old GOP has now broken into two parties: one pro-Trump and one anti-Trump. I’m not sure which party has more core, committed members. But these days, the pro-Trump party claims the vast majority of members, given that (to paraphrase the words of the great Tom Lehrer about Wehrner von Braun) their allegiance is ruled by expedience. And the two parties will react quite differently, as they do to many things.

I’m generalizing here quite a bit, but the anti-Trump party (my party) consists of the few people who believe in positive principles like limited government, the free market and the rule of law. We will applaud Assange’s arrest and cheer on his prosecution.

The core of the pro-Trump party — cretins like Sean Hannity and the biggest Trump superfans — are the folks obsessed with Muslims and defeating the left and “winning.” They don’t have many principles other than crushing the left — and if the left came out in favor of free markets (for example) they would be against free markets. (You may think I’m joking or exaggerating, but their support for Trump’s tariff’s proves I’m dead serious and exactly right.) These folks will decry Assange’s arrest and portray him as a political prisoner for revealing the truth about Hillary.

My belief is that the vast majority of current members of the pro-Trump party, and most readers here, are “Wehrner von Braun” members, whose membership is predicated on the fact that Trump is president. These folks assess him to be doing a mostly good job, while reviews of his personality are mixed. Some like his combativeness but most are put off by his tweeting and self-obsession. They’ll generally sign on to most of the core Trumpers’ hypocritical arguments defending Trump as a person, excusing his rampant lying and fraud as typical of politicians and nowhere near as bad as those evil and awful leftists like Hillary. They care far more about policy, and positively support some of Trump’s policies, like his defense of the country’s sovereignty.

These folks care a lot (I think far too much) about his main contributions to policy, which are mainly inconsequential nods to the base — things that matter very little to the big picture, but make a guy drinking a beer say “hell yeah!” Here I’m talking about the multitude of Trumpian gestures to the cultural aspects of the right. Stuff like yelling at football players for taking a knee and that kind of nonsense. But these folks also still remember, distantly, what it’s like to care about things like the free market and the debt, and that’s why their defense of tariffs tends to be halfhearted, and they show some embarrassment if the issue of federal spending comes up. And they’re sometimes in favor of the rule of law, as long as it doesn’t affect Trump, and especially if the rule of law hurts a leftist.

These are the people whose reactions will be most interesting, and the comments here ought to be reflective of their views. My guess is that their take will be that Assange did a lot of good stuff in revealing the “truth” about Hillary, but maybe they’ll be OK with his arrest and prosecution too. Who knows? It will be interesting to see.

Although this post is nominally about Assange and his arrest, the bigger question here is the schism caused by Trump. Because if I’m right about the vast majority of pro-Trumpers, the question is: what happens when he’s no longer president? I think the singular figure of Trump matters to these people far more than his dopey policies like tariffs, or kissing the ass of every murderous dictator in sight, or his desire to literally close the entire border in places, even to legal commerce that American car companies depend on. Once he’s gone, there will be no more allegiance to such idiotic policies.

But what will happen? I’ve given up prognostication, for the most part, but it will be interesting. I think a lot depends on who comes along next, unfortunately. I say unfortunately because I see practically nobody who could bring the two parties back together.

There is so much bad blood these days. I feel no kinship whatsoever with Trump or the core pro-Trumpers, and I react with excessive distress at the way that the expedient crowd has also gone along with Trumpism. I’m writing a blog mostly for people who aren’t part of my party, and who don’t like me. Think about that. Many readers have left as a result and the readership is down, and I mainly write for the small number of the core anti-Trump party that remains, as I respect them more than anyone. Otherwise, it’s as if I’m suddenly writing for Democrats — not that pro-Trumpers are Democrats, but they are a different party. Imagine what it would be like to write a blog and suddenly have 85% of your readers become Democrats. You’d feel alienated and dispirited — but especially happy about the 15% who remain ideologically in tune with you.

I don’t feel I have changed. I used to hang out with people like Ace of Spades and Charles C. Johnson. The latter had posting privileges here. They both now make my skin crawl. Did I change or did they? I submit that we all changed, but that they changed far more.

Anyway, when you start to ramble and you need to get to work, that’s when it’s time to end the post.

[Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.]

160 Responses to “Assange Arrested After Ecuador Withdraws Asylum — How Will the Two Parties of the Old GOP React?”

  1. Shouldn’t you address that to the guardian the times and the post that celebrated him till 2016.

    Narciso (2de9c6)

  2. I guess that includes enforcing the immigration laws (no not the idiot flores settlement) which makes the latter impossible.

    Narciso (2de9c6)

  3. 2. As far as enforcing immigration laws, Trump has done a lot more talk than action.

    Gryph (08c844)

  4. I dont think its so much about Assange himself, but about which particular transgression earns him the gibbet. Trumpians want him hanged for the receipt and divulgence of information provided by now-Chelsea Manning, and Democrats want him hanged for his purported divulgence of Hillary Clinton information.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  5. He skipped bail.
    He was a co-conspirator of Manning and Snowden.
    Whether the Swedish #MeToo (now dropped) charges which led to his detention had merit is irrelevant to me.
    Whether he likes Trump or Trump likes him is likewise irrelevant to me.
    Did I say he was a co-conspirator of Manning and Snowden? Screw him!

    nk (dbc370)

  6. Ding and ding!!! It is almost irrelevant what he hath wrought since, though in a non-capital punishment theatre, those charges would add years behind bars.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  7. Speaking for myself, I have a lot of mixed feelings about Assange. He crusaded for the truth, but that doesn’t change the fact that he was (is?) a habitual lawbreaker throughout the world. I won’t shed a single salty tear if he gets put away for the rest of his natural life.

    Gryph (08c844)

  8. Will those papers give back their pulitzers fruit of the poison tree, gettaouthere.

    Narciso (2de9c6)

  9. I count myself among the 15%. I read every post you put up, and appreciate your commitment to those things we once considered indefensible conservative ideals.

    What passes for ‘conservatism’ nowadays is unrecognizable to me. I often feel like a man without a party, which I guess I am since I no longer caucus with the republicans. I appreciate the appeal to liberty of the libertarians, but grow weary of their drug induced ‘taxation is theft’ ideology.

    Thank you for your sane voice of reason in this screwed up world.

    Glenn (37a55d)

  10. indispensable, not indefensible.

    Glenn (37a55d)

  11. FWIW, you’d likely call me a “leftist”, although I really don’t see it that way. I started reading you quite a while back, don’t remember how I found you. I still read because you’re smart, not talking-point driven, not insane (most of the time), and not dishonest.

    Seems like most of the country disagrees with this now, but I feel that if you don’t listen to smart people you disagree with, you’re an idiot.

    grumbles (cd2753)

  12. It’ll be good to see Assange held to account by the British, but also interesting to see if Assange is found to be subject to the Espionage Act. Assange is not an American citizen… is he duty bound to safeguard America’s secrets? There’s no denying the harm he, Snowden and Manning were responsible for.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  13. Drawing and quartering without the hanging might be the perfect compromise. You get a limb, you get a limb, she gets a limb, he gets a limb!

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  14. 12. Espionage can be committed by aliens (defined as any non-citizen). Treason, on the other hand, I would think is a little more limited in scope.

    Gryph (08c844)

  15. “Conservatives used to despise lawbreakers like Assange.“

    The media used to love them, but then he exposed the likes of Maggie Haberman, Glenn Thrush, Gloria Borger, etc. and it wasn’t so fun for them anymore.

    Munroe (5bb9c3)

  16. I don’t consider myself a Trumpist by any means, although on policy I prefer him to the alternatives.

    But I have yet to see anyone, Trumpist or not, defend Assange. First of all, he was involved in leaking sensitive U.S. military information back in 2010. So that alone is enough to condemn him (although legally I acknowledge that is going to be tricky.)

    Second, in 2016, he stated that choosing between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump is like choosing between cholera or gonorrhea. So he is hardly a Trump fan.

    So the guy is a criminal, except that some of his criminal acts happened to help Trump. So what?

    Bored Lawyer (998177)

  17. is he duty bound to safeguard America’s secrets?

    Not sure that is the right question. If he encouraged and helped American citizens (especially those in the military) to reveal secrets, then he has criminal liability. Not sure if the facts and evidence support that, we will see.

    (Although I get the impression the British have their own issues with him.)

    Bored Lawyer (998177)

  18. Assange probably has good memories of…gonorrhea

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  19. TL;DR Manning only. One count of conspiracy.

    nk (dbc370)

  20. You could just ban opposing views, as you seem to allow those who slander this country and its traditions

    narciso (d1f714)

  21. I read you for years back at RedState and would say you haven’t changed your outlook or core views much, although I would say your focus has shifted from mostly criticizing Democrats you disagree with to doing a lot more criticizing Republicans you disagree with. But I largely chalk that up to Republicans doing a lot more that you disagree with than they used to, with the Democrats not changing much in your view.

    nate_w (8f526f)

  22. You could just ban opposing views, as you seem to allow those who slander this country and its traditions

    If this is addressed to Patrick, it is horribly unfair and inaccurate.

    Also, some, including me, would consider the sewage that flows out Donald Trump’s mouth, for instance drawing a moral equivalence between the United States and Putin’s Russia, admiration for the butchers of Tiananmen Square, or professing love for the dictator of North Korea, and the fawning praise of the same by his fans, as slander to this country and its traditions.

    Dave (1bb933)

  23. When i thought Assange was some sort of ‘free speech / free information’ activist I had some respect for him. But as time went on it looked more and more likely that he was greatly motivated by an opposition to my country. I’ll admit I’m an partisan for the United States and have no good will for those working against our interests just because they’re in our interests.

    I think he released stolen information in a way intended to harm Clinton’s campaign and cause disruption to our election process. I think he succeeded. INAL so I don’t know what criminal statue he violated, but I’d like it to be well known doing that has negative consequences.

    Time123 (b87ded)

  24. You could just ban opposing views, as you seem to allow those who slander this country and its traditions

    narciso (d1f714) — 4/11/2019 @ 8:59 am

    You’re such a class act.
    Which tradition are you most but hurt about? Honesty? Fidelity? Humility? Free Speech?

    Time123 (b87ded)

  25. I should not have posted comment 24.

    Narciso i apologize for my sarcastic comment and I won’t insult you again.

    Time123 (af99e9)

  26. These folks will decry Assange’s arrest and portray him as a political prisoner for revealing the truth about Hillary.

    His original problems started in 2010 and the Chelsea Manning leaks. The Hillary leaks happened in 2016 and he had been in asylum in since 2012.

    I won’t shed a single salty tear if he gets put away for the rest of his natural life.

    Obama commuted Manning’s 35-year sentence with 7 years served.

    he was a co-conspirator of Manning

    In 2011 the government produced chat logs in the Manning case that they allege are with Assange but these allegations are unproven. We may get evidence linking Assange to Manning if the US brings Assange to trial.

    Democrats want him hanged for his purported divulgence of Hillary Clinton information

    There is no evidence so far that WikiLeaks, or Assange specifically, acted in any way different than the NYT or any other traditional publisher who deals with leaked information. Bartnicki is still good law correct?

    the anti-Trump party (my party) consists of the few people who believe in positive principles like limited government, the free market and the rule of law. We will applaud Assange’s arrest and cheer on his prosecution.

    Snowden provided evidence that the US government was systematically spying on US citizens and had lied to Congress about it. The Afghan War documents were also released to The Guardian, NYT, and Der Spiegel none of which are accused of espionage. The information released by WikiLeaks generally shows the US government to be anything but limited. In fact it reveals a lot of unethical, immoral, and potentially illegal activity.

    frosty48 (6226c1)

  27. Prediction post-Trump: The hard-core Trump supporter will…once again….look for the least conventional candidate….probably another celebrity know-nothing….that can talk for days and say nothing of much value….just mining people’s prejudices and packaging them up for mass appeal. The soft-core Trump supporter…..those that defend their vote as a binary choice….will probably drift back toward more conventional candidates….Nikki Haley, Marco Rubio, maybe a Greg Abbott…with a clear preference for someone who…in some way…kissed the ring….and stayed on the team. Those that sat out team Trump will try to emphasize experience, knowledge, and character….and hope that that comes back into vogue. Whoever they gather around will immediately be deemed suspect by the other groups. It will be difficult for these groups to coalesce around a good candidate…some part of this coalition will splinter off from disgust…or apathy….or boredom.

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  28. he was a co-conspirator of Manning

    In 2011 the government produced chat logs in the Manning case that they allege are with Assange but these allegations are unproven. We may get evidence linking Assange to Manning if the US brings Assange to trial.

    I linked the indictment @ 19.

    nk (dbc370)

  29. @28 I read it and thanks for posting the link. Is it any different from the allegations they made in the Manning case? The allegation, #7, is that Assange personally helped him crack a password. They may be able to prove that but right now it’s still an unproven allegation.

    frosty48 (6226c1)

  30. I think the Governors will be in play, to take a page each from both AJ-L and DCSCA – Abbott perhaps, but I see Ron DeSantis vs. Doug Ducey as the semi-final binary choice. Florida is less GOP and more Trump, to varying degrees thats what the dual-flow-migratory Sun Belt firewall of AZ-TX-GA-FL have become.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  31. These folks will decry Assange’s arrest and portray him as a political prisoner for revealing the truth about Hillary.

    Let me know when anyone makes that charge.

    Given that we have a Trump Administration, and the DOJ is now headed by William Barr, this charge seems like a stretch.

    Bored Lawyer (998177)

  32. Seems like near beer, for an indictment, manning and Snowden were the perpetrators like the unnamed players in the paradise and paradise papers

    Narciso (4ea712)

  33. Trump is doing a spectacularly good job, his astonishing string of accomplishments in the face of the combined overt and covert Left’s attemped coup d’etat demonstrates the steadfastness and indomitable spirit Americans most admire in the leaders they trust to occupy the nation’s highest office.

    Moreover, the rise and persistent bitter attacks on Trump and his supporters by disgruntled ‘NeverTrumpers’ cloaking their personal disappointments and animosities behind repiticous claims of ‘high minded’ adherence to ‘conservative primciples’ is hogwash. Straight up.

    It’s the catherwauling of stubborn losers who choose to hold a grudge and grind their axes in public rather than join the celebration of Conservatism’s greatest victory since The Gipper was elected.

    ropelight (297b4a)

  34. One is struck how the puzzle palace nor army intelligence learned anything from Christopher boyce or pyle.

    Narciso (4ea712)

  35. I applaud for Assange’s arrest and won’t shed a tear if he’s in prison either.

    Our host wrote: Because if I’m right about the vast majority of pro-Trumpers, the question is: what happens when he’s no longer president? I think the singular figure of Trump matters to these people far more than his dopey policies like tariffs, or kissing the ass of every murderous dictator in sight, or his desire to literally close the entire border in places, even to legal commerce that American car companies depend on. Once he’s gone, there will be no more allegiance to such idiotic policies.

    Yup… I think that’s right.

    For me, it was him or Hillary. So Trump winning gets a lot of leeway from me. If that makes me hypocritical (it does)… so be it.

    whembly (51f28e)

  36. “Deep state! Trump state! Deep state! Trump state!”— watch the fur fly.

    BTW, Patterico, expect plenty of befuddled Trumpsters to query, ‘Who are Tom Lehrer and Wernher Von Braun?” 😉
    _____________

    “I see practically nobody who could bring the two parties back together.”

    Patience and cultivation. You can’t run 16 GOP weenies in primaries and expect a coalescence. Two or three, tops. Trump took advantage of that weakness, though suspect he did not expect to win but profit on the loss. [Accordingly, expect the Dem-field of 18 weasels and hedgehogs to suffer a similar fate.] After all, the GOP upheaval has really only been three years… though it has been stewing for many more years since Reagan left office 30 years ago-[Buchannan, Perot… even Palin, etc.,]. Still, the GOP remaining is getting the judgeships they crave.

    After Goldwater wrestled the nom and lost in a landslide back in ’64, it took a decade and a half – and some “luck” w/Watergate and Carter for Reagan and his people to thread a path and ascend– then bond ‘the two parties’ together, by taking GHWB Bush along as his Veep. These things cycle through in time– but the individual who’ll break out for the 21st century likely isn’t at the national level, but in a state house or a governorship– and you may not even know their name– yet. Plan for 2024 and beyond; aside from the judges, the teens are a lost decade.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  37. Nikki Haley is someone I would watch out for…

    whembly (51f28e)

  38. “These folks will decry Assange’s arrest and portray him as a political prisoner for revealing the truth about Hillary.”

    It appears that the plan is to memory hole him.

    “I know nothing about Wikileaks. It’s not my thing.” – Donald Trump

    Meanwhile, Hannity deletes every tweet mentioning Assange or WikiLeaks.

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  39. #39 “These folks will decry Assange’s arrest and portray him as a political prisoner for revealing the truth about Hillary.”

    It appears that the plan is to memory hole him.

    “I know nothing about Wikileaks. It’s not my thing.” – Donald Trump

    Meanwhile, Hannity deletes every tweet mentioning Assange or WikiLeaks.

    Davethulhu (fab944) — 4/11/2019 @ 11:13 am

    Too late… Trump is on camera during the campaign saying that he loves wikileaks.

    whembly (b9d411)

  40. I believe in positive principles like limited government, the free market, and the rule of law. I did not vote for Donald Trump in either the CA primary or the general election. I think he is untruthful and obsessed with himself. Yet I do support many of the policies he has advocated and/or implemented since his election.

    For example, I believe in free trade. But I credit Trump for his strong stand against China’s trade policies and its large scale theft of US intellectual property. I don’t think any of the 2016 Republicans, including Ted Cruz whom I supported, and certainly none of the Democratic candidates would have confronted the Chinese.

    As to Assange, he has been indicted. Like anyone accused of a crime, he is presumed innocent and entitled to a fair trial. If he is convicted, he should be punished according to law. I don’t care what political effect his leaks had on Hillary’s campaign.

    Stu707 (a0c2d4)

  41. @38. In this day and age, a GOP woman who can win must be telegenic, articulate, post-menopausal w/a voice void of shrillness, smart, firm but not macho, properly coiffed hair, not an overt feminist nor momma-matronly yet hip to the techn-o-world we live in and have a good sense of self- and sense of humor. Thatcher-types don’t grow on trees.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  42. Although I get the impression the British have their own issues with him

    The Brits want him for jumping bail on the Swedish extradition. I don’t think they’ve got anything else.

    frosty48 (6226c1)

  43. @41. Know your voting target audience:

    Cruz = Snidely Whiplash.

    Trump = Bullwinkle.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  44. My first guess would be that this is connected with Mueller report, and that possibly Assange he was arrested because:

    1) Attorney General William Barr was anxious to release as much of the Mueller report as he can, but one cnstraint he has given himsellf is that it shouldn;t reveal pending investigations. The Mueller Report probably contains a great deal about Wikileaks, but so long as the as much of indictment was sealed, William Barr would feel he couldn’t mention anthing about it.

    But if the indictment of Juliam Assaunge was made public, he would feel more comfortable redacting less.

    He was probably in contact with the white House about this.

    2) So the United States – that is the Trump administration – put more pressure on Ecuador to give up Julian Assange.

    And Ecuador co-operated because it wants the United States to do more about Venezuela.

    Ecuador is allied with Guaido, but the crisis causes difficulty. Officials in Ecuador say Venezuelan leader Nicolas Maduro’s administration gave ex-President Rafael Correa a hefty sum. Lenin Moreno was actually Rafael Correa’s chosen successor two years ago but the two have broken and Moreno is now more allied wth his old opposition.

    Sammy Finkelman (30b6b6)

  45. 43. The Brits are going to be but the first in a long chain of falling/fallen dominoes where Assange is concerned. Nobody will take him now unless they are willing to prosecute.

    Gryph (08c844)

  46. I would guess that Assange was indicted because of Bradley Manning, and maybe Snowden, because that’s the only place – there may be less well known cases, also of course – where he could be accused of espionage – actually encouraging spying.

    But he was intensively investigated because of the 2016 political anti-Hillary leaks.

    Assange had nothing to do with obtaining that information, but only leaking it, and he was in fact, Russia’s second choice, so the indictment would not focus on that.

    Sammy Finkelman (30b6b6)

  47. Ecuador co-operated because it wants the United States to do more about Venezuela

    This might be the heart of it. I don’t know the exact timeline but I think this started before the release of the Mueller report. Ecuador started making back-channel ‘anonymous’, and some not, claims about WikiLeaks making it look bad and acting in bad faith, WikiLeaks responded to that criticism, and Ecuador pointed to the response as evidence of WikiLeaks saying it was acting in bad faith and they were trying to make them look bad.

    frosty48 (6226c1)

  48. 38. 40.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 4/11/2019 @ 11:22 am

    @38. In this day and age, a GOP woman who can win must be telegenic, articulate, post-menopausal w/a voice void of shrillness, smart, firm but not macho, properly coiffed hair, not an overt feminist nor momma-matronly yet hip to the techn-o-world we live in and have a good sense of self- and sense of humor.

    By 2024, but not by 2020, Nikki Haley (born January 20, 1972) will be post-menopausal.

    Sammy Finkelman (30b6b6)

  49. #41

    Ditto

    Bored Lawyer (998177)

  50. nk (dbc370) — 4/11/2019 @ 7:45 am
    Pretty much my feelings. Assange helped Snowden commit treason. Snowden has been embrasser l’arrière of Putin ever since his arrival in Moscow, so clearly his claims of idealistic motivation are fake.

    Only a real leftist would defend Assange. Anyone else who does I have to consider really confused.

    Kishnevi (1c16da)

  51. 48. frosty48 (6226c1) — 4/11/2019 @ 11:33 am

    I don’t know the exact timeline but I think this started before the release of the Mueller report. Ecuador started making back-channel ‘anonymous’, and some not, claims about WikiLeaks making it look bad and acting in bad faith.. </blockquote. Yes, Ecuador started trying to be less allied with Assaunge some time ago (they cut off Julian Assnge;s Internet access, I remember)

    But what must have pushed them to making a complete break with Assange was Venezuela, where Trump's desire to do nothing remotely too strong was prolonging the crisis more than Ecuador wanted.

    Sammy Finkelman (30b6b6)

  52. I think Ecuador doesn’t like the strategy Trump has chosen for getting rid of Maduro. It’s not working.

    Sammy Finkelman (30b6b6)

  53. I would guess that Assange was indicted because of … maybe Snowden

    Snowden leaked to The Guardian. The link between Assange and Snowden is that WikiLeaks facilitated his stay in Hong Kong and his flight to Russia, i.e. his attempt to avoid extradition to the US. Hong Kong says the request to detain Snowden wasn’t valid because of a technicality.

    frosty48 (6226c1)

  54. FWIW, my ‘prediction,’ post Trump – who is a transient to be sure- is the next successful GOP candidate for the top spot will be what we once called a ‘Rockefeller Republican.’

    For those too young to know the particulars of same, Google it; it’s all there.

    Much of what they advocated then [and now] is beginning to resurface and can take a lot of the wind out the opposition’s sails.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  55. Stu707 (a0c2d4) — 4/11/2019 @ 11:22 am

    . But I credit Trump for his strong stand against China’s trade policies and its large scale theft of US intellectual property.

    But the trouble is, Trump is more interested in the trade numbers. That would be one issue where Trump is maybe good, bu you don’t know if he has staying power. Maybe because you’re not even sre whether he’s fully signed on.

    But there are also human rights issues, and the rising threat of extradition of people from Hong Kong, and the military build-up, and the man-made islands in the South China Sea, and their coaching of North Korea.

    Sammy Finkelman (30b6b6)

  56. “Imagine what it would be like to write a blog and suddenly have 85% of your readers become Democrats. You’d feel alienated and dispirited — but especially happy about the 15% who remain ideologically in tune with you.”

    Speaking only for myself, I continue to follow this blog not necessarily out of agreement with Patterico all the time but because I respect his intelligence and honesty as well as that of a number of commenters like DRJ and Leviticus, among others. I’m all too willing to give Trump a pass on things sometimes. When Patterico points out what I would, probably too charitably, call my blind spots about Trump, I appreciate being reminded what conservative principles actually are, even if the partisan in me has difficulty following them. So, Patterico, you are appreciated — keep up the good work.

    RL formerly in Glendale (40f5aa)

  57. “I know nothing about Wikileaks. It’s not my thing.” – President Donald J. Trump, 4-11-19.

    Priceless.

    “Something familiar; Something peculiar; Something for everybody: Comedy tonight!”- Stephen Sondheim; ‘A Funny Thing Happened On The Way To The Forum’ 1966

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  58. the anti-Trump party (my party) consists of the few people who believe in positive principles like limited government, the free market and the rule of law.

    Less those who take a pragmatic approach (“ruled by expedience” if you want to be pejorative) and decide they won’t try to ride the horse sideways.

    A major party has wings. Often the people in the party detest one or more of the other wings, but grudgingly allow them to participate so long as they back the eventual nominees. Trump is not an aberration here, but maybe an extreme example. He’s from what I call the “car dealer” wing of the GOP — populist, often redneck, and concerned with main street values.

    The libertarian wing and the country club wing doesn’t like him. The “good-government” centrist wing (think Elliot Richardson) abhors him, as do the Internationalists. There is some intersectionality here, but some of these folks have formed what out host calls the anti-Trump wing. Most of the party, though, and including some of these groups, have accepted Trump as the current standard-bearer with varying degrees of enthusiasm. What our host sneers at as “expedient.”

    The problem is that a broad-based party that splits like this descends into factionalism that may take years to recover from, or may overreact and lose itself. Goldwater’s nomination was as traumatic for the GOP as Trump is today. The reaction was Nixon, Ford and the wilderness. It wasn’t until Reagan that the party could reunite. THe Democrats went through much the same process with McGovern.

    The problem is that the “anti-Trump” folks don’t stand for anything except “not Trump.” In the 1820’s, the dominant Democrat-Republican part shattered over Jackson. The first split was in 1824 when they stole Jackson’s plurality and Congress put JQ Adams in instead. When Jackson won outright in 1828 & 32, “the anti-Jackson” wing formed the Whig party and ran an alternative list. They had some success, but died eventually because they didn’t really believe in anything except they hated Jacksonites. The Presidents they elected are ALL ranked in the bottom 10%.

    The question that arises is: will the anti-Trump faction run a viable nominee within the GOP in 2020, will they split off and run an independent, or will they suck it up and tolerate this fool’s re-election run? There are people in the “pragmatic” camp who might support an alternative, but lacking one the anti-Trumps should STFU and soldier on.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  59. My apologies if the above is seem as a digression.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  60. I dont get how they can charge they didnt charge the times for sterling and kirikaou.

    Narciso (4ea712)

  61. No goldwater was the reaction, Nixon and Ford were the restoration same as witn Bush sr after Reagan

    Narciso (4ea712)

  62. There’s lots here in this post, and I’m going to respond in pieces.

    1) I’ve been reading this blog since the beginning, and it is one of a very few blogs I continue to read (Ace is not one of them). Our host exasperates me at times, and I him, but I do understand where he’s coming from. “Expedient” is not the word I would use for my divergence; I prefer “pragmatic.” This is informed by the time I spent in the Libertarian Party before deciding that the only path to change was through the GOP, as noxious as it sometimes is.

    There have been worse GOP candidates, or even nominees than Trump. Dole was and is a terrible person and a terrible candidate. The various Moral Majority types that ran in the 90’s made my skin crawl. Santorum, Hucklebee, Kasich. Buchanan. All worse than Trump, either in policy, honesty or core principles.

    Dole and Buchanan drove me to the LP. I regret not staying and working for someone else. I have no illusions that my puny efforts would have changed things, but statistics start with the individual choice. I will not wash my hands and move on again.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  63. I guess there should have been a 2). My bad.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  64. #56 Sammy Finkelman

    True, I don’t know if Trump has staying power, assuming you mean the staying power of his ideas and policies implemented by executive actions. In fact, I doubt it. After he leaves office it is likely he will be succeeded by a Democrat. The GOP will return to control by the GOPe who disdain Trump as much if not more than Democrats.

    There is little the US can do about human rights inside China. The threat China poses to freedom of the seas can be countered by strengthening the US Navy (which he is trying to do) and alliances with Asian countries opposed to Chinese hegemony.

    Stu707 (a0c2d4)

  65. I adopt and incorporate by reference nk’s remarks (#5) as if they were my own.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  66. I find I have to agree entirely with Stu @41.

    I believe in Free Trade, but know that there is no such thing in the world. What we have is Free-ish Trade. Every country has quotas, tariffs or non-tariff barriers on something. Some have lots, some have few. No one has none.

    Some of Trump’s tariffs (e.g. steel) are either pandering, corrupt, economically illiterate or stupid. Possible all of the above. But I will note that all but a few candidates support sugar import barriers, corn price supports and corn-based ethanol. Cruz and McCain did not, and both had the guts to say so in Iowa.

    As for China, there comes a time when a tantrum is in order, and over the last few decades China has been seeing just how far it could go before that happened. Now they know. This “trade war” will be concluded, as most business deals are. Walking away from the table, while it scares the hopelessly co-opted, is just part of the process. Trump may not know much, but he does understand hardball negotiation. China needs us FAR more than we need China. Be of good cheer.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  67. Meh. These spats make great memories; one Thanksgiving, many, many, many, many moons ago, granddad liked Truman; grandmother preferred Dewey; Dad liked Ike, Mom campaigned for Goldwater and the much younger me was ‘bang-zoom-to-the-moon,’ all the way w/JFK. ‘Ya shudda seen the mashed potatoes fly. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  68. 16: No and maybe No.

    DRJ (15874d)

  69. Assange is journalism at its best. what the government doesn’t want you to know is news. what they want you to know is propaganda. journalist all over the world are persecuted for bring the truth to the people. the first amendment is for this very purpose.

    lany (0bb0e1)

  70. 15… munroe nails it… many of the “journalists” were exposed as the shills they were and continue to be.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  71. “The problem is that the “anti-Trump” folks don’t stand for anything except “not Trump.” ”

    No I would argue that most Republicans who did not vote for Trump…including me…..have not changed much from what policies they supported or from what behavior they expect from the President. Depending on how conservative or moderate they are, they were perfectly happy somewhere on the Cruz-Rubio-Bush-Kasich spectrum of candidates and remain so. They tend to be less reactionary on immigration, trade/tariffs, Muslims, and spending….and will have a deeper appreciation for why the Federalist Society recommended Gorsuch and Kavanaugh for the vacancies. As I have done for every election cycle previously, I will be looking for an experienced candidate, articulate and knowledgeable on the policies I care about, with sufficient personal discipline.

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  72. Oh, yes, Assange. Bring him here. Charge him. Maybe he has a “Pentagon Papers” defense, maybe he doesn’t. Not my call. The papers that Manning stole and that Assange released were extremely damaging the the United States.

    I regret that Manning is not still in prison. What he did could have been charged as treason. Is Assange culpable for distributing it? Not sure about the law, but he also did great damage.

    IIRC, the NY Times and WaPo were not given an automatic pass over the Pentagon Papers, but the value to the public during a failing war was high and THAT made the difference. Charges against Ellsberg were thrown out due to government misconduct, not because he wasn’t guilty of stealing TS documents.

    The Wikileaks releases were mostly diplomatic cables that were embarrassing to all concerned, but there was little redeeming social value. I think Assange will have problems with that kind of defense.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  73. I wish Trump would stop increasing the debt.

    mg (8cbc69)

  74. She may be throwing her hijab into the ring any day now… https://twitter.com/ReaganBattalion/status/1116390602546003973

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  75. No I would argue that most Republicans who did not vote for Trump…including me…..have not changed much from what policies they supported or from what behavior they expect from the President.

    Then find a candidate and get him or her to run a real campaign, not just a protest vote. As long as the choice is Trump or Communism, the choice isn’t even hard.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  76. BTW … Nikki Haley will be the first woman President. I know centrist Democrats (there are still some left) who are impressed with her. She won’t challenge Trump in 2020 — no wish to burn her bridges with the Trumpies — but is a sure contender in 2024.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  77. Choosing between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump is like choosing between cholera or gonorrhea

    AIDS or gonorrhea is closer to it. Trump’s damage is curable. Hillary’s would be with us for the rest of our shorter lives.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  78. “the bigger question here is the schism caused by Trump. Because if I’m right about the vast majority of pro-Trumpers, the question is: what happens when he’s no longer president?”

    Who knows, maybe everyone will start following the example set by NeverTrump. When we don’t get the candidate we want, we pick up our marbles and go home, all the while pointing to everyone else and mumbling something about “schism”.

    Munroe (141125)

  79. @77. 2024? Perhaps. But 6 or 7 years on the side lines is a 600 or 700 lifetimes in politics; and she’s ‘out’ of the arena now– been nominated to the BoD of Boeing; a DoD contractor w/a 737 max 8 problem hitting the fan blades– a huge chunk of that firms profitability rests w/sales of that aircraft. Peruse her background, too; won’t find any previous experience in aeronautics or civil or military aviation to speak of. Still, it makes for a safe parking space to network.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  80. “Then find a candidate and get him or her to run a real campaign”

    Any plausible alternative to Trump will be eviscerated in 2020…..FNC, Talk Radio, and the Religious Right are duly invested in Trump….and as you commented later, all of the hard-core Trump supporters would view opposition as disloyalty…if not heresy. So unless some new stink emerges on Trump, the new GOP base is in till the end. A blue-stater like Hogan may run in the primary…and that may be good signaling for the GOP…but his low profile would not portend much success.

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  81. Who knows, maybe everyone will start following the example set by NeverTrump. When we don’t get the candidate we want, we pick up our marbles and go home

    Well, this was EXACTLY the treat Trump and his supporters used in 2016. Trump refused to promise to support the party’s nominee OR to rule out running as an independent. Most NeverTrumps voted for Trump if it mattered in their state, becsue they were also #ToHellWithHillary. If they hadn’t he would have lost.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  82. *threat

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  83. Any plausible alternative to Trump will be eviscerated in 2020…..FNC, Talk Radio, and the Religious Right are duly invested in Trump….and as you commented later, all of the hard-core Trump supporters would view opposition as disloyalty…if not heresy.

    So it would have to be someone who doesn’t give a frack about a political future. Which leaves Romney, maybe Ryan, and those already without a political future like Kasich.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  84. Now, if the Trump supporters are going to stay home, like many of them did in 2012, or falsely claim that some GOP did in battleground states in 2016, then maybe you have a point.

    But for the same people who cried “It’s Trump or Hillary” to say “Who cares if it’s a Communist!” would be the height of hypocrisy, not to mention stupidity.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  85. “Nikki Haley will be the first woman President. I know centrist Democrats (there are still some left) who are impressed with her. She won’t challenge Trump in 2020 — no wish to burn her bridges with the Trumpies — but is a sure contender in 2024.”

    Any female who runs as a Republican will be Agnes Hitler 24/7 according to Dems and their media accomplices during the campaign. That’s just the way it is plus NO FREAKING WAY they’ll allow the first female President to be from the GOP.

    harkin (e15868)

  86. Assange is journalism at its best.

    I wasn’t aware that lany was a die-hard Trumper.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  87. “Well, this was EXACTLY the treat Trump and his supporters used in 2016. Trump refused to promise to support the party’s nominee OR to rule out running as an independent.”
    Kevin M (21ca15) — 4/11/2019 @ 2:21 pm

    There are threats, and then there’s what actually happened. How did the candidates on the other side of the “schism” do? Those principled ones who signed the pledge.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/05/06/jeb-bush-donald-trump/84037504/

    Munroe (1d0605)

  88. McMuffin 2020!!!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  89. paul singer, was trying to knock out both cruz and trump from the line up, that’s the stuff that roger stone picked up from the short end,

    narciso (d1f714)

  90. Gary Johnson: Stupefying Blasts of Intoxication 2020!?!?!?!?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  91. hypothetical dialog …

    me: I love America. Truth, Justice, and the American Way, hells yes! WikiLeaks: Are you aware of … me: Whoa, wow. I’m glad I know that now. That is some sketchy stuff. I’m not sure we should be doing some of that. Maybe we should talk about it.

    GOPe: I love America. Truth, Justice, and the American Way, hells yes! WikiLeaks [in 2010]: Are you aware of … GOPe: Traitor. You should hang. WikiLeaks [in 2016]: Are you aware of … GOPe: Those e-mails are interesting. Traitor. You should hang.

    HRC/Obama: I love America. Truth, Justice, and the American Way, hells yes! WikiLeaks [in 2010]: Are you aware of … HRC/Obama: Can we drone strike this guy? WikiLeaks [in 2016]: Are you aware of … HRC: Russian agent! What was the problem with drone striking this guy?

    anti-Trump Republicans: I love America. Truth, Justice, and the American Way, hells yes!WikiLeaks [in 2016]: Are you aware of … anti-Trump Republicans: This guy could really sink HRC and stick us with DJT … squirrel … you know these pro-Trump guys are in favor of WikiLeaks [wink-wink] traitors [nudge-nudge] say no more.

    frosty48 (6226c1)

  92. we know how the establishment, behaved in 2010 and 2012, acting like the fainting damsel when their candidates, didn’t get the nod,

    narciso (d1f714)

  93. There are threats, and then there’s what actually happened. How did the candidates on the other side of the “schism” do? Those principled ones who signed the pledge.

    Most of the candidates, and most Republicans, voted for Trump. If they hadn’t he would have lost places like PA and WI. Where it didn’t matter — CA, NY, etc — people were able to show their displeasure. It was one of the reasons Trump lost the popular vote — Hillary’s margin in CA alone was bigger than her overall margin.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  94. 92… are you the author of Hi and Lois, Frosty? Because you are making me laugh…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  95. Except for a few things frosty. In 2010 what was released was highly classified, but mostly uninteresting unless you really cared about sugar negotiations with Brazil, or what our SoS said to the leader of Uzbekistan. In 2016, none of it was classified. Just embarrassing to Hillary.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  96. “maybe everyone will start following the example set by NeverTrump”

    In three years, I’ve never referred to my self as “NeverTrump”….always holding out hope that Trump would change….minimize his Tweeting, learn something about policy, keep good people in key positions, and dial back the self-absorbed rhetoric. He may remain better than any Democrat in some categories, but embarrassingly under-prepared and reckless in others. He just hasn’t won me over as a leader….and the direction he seems to be taking the Party is not one that I am interested in following. I will always be there if the GOP wants to re-brand and reach out to me. I’ll continue to watch for signs that it cares about what I care about….and how it is perceived. But for now, count me as an interested observer waiting for that boring president that Trump promised….

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  97. @96

    The Collateral Murder video was released in April, 2010 showing US troops firing on a group and killing several men who turned out to be reporters. Then firing on a van that stopped to help the first group. The van was later found to contain children.

    Documents relating to the war in Afghanistan were released in July. I can’t objectively describe this information but it was more interesting than sugar negotiations.

    Documents relating to the war in Iraq were released in October. I can’t objectively describe this information but it was more interesting than sugar negotiations.

    Documents relating to various diplomatic cables were released in November. This might have included information about sugar negotiations.

    frosty48 (6226c1)

  98. OT: AOC defends Omar over 9/11 comments, rips NY Post cover.

    Enjoy your primaries, ladies.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  99. frosty–

    And all of those came from Manning?

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  100. Manning had a lot. He had access to evrything thst was secret but not top secret.

    The indictment avoids assigning Manning a sex.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  101. those came from manning’s trove, and the lead item was subject to interpretation, there is an interesting view because the names of assets were not in English, they weren’t compromised, as if farsi or Urdu names wouldn’t stick out,

    the others came from snowden, there was the leak of the company’s tool chest, that may have been the last straw, for those uncynically minded,

    https://www.enca.com/business/imf-approves-42bn-loan-ecuador?fbclid=IwAR2_3jynzZpbOh1BEIf4klmwkUV_Gy1sc_Cq7l2PqPKJ2YkAaA67fkzqtAE

    narciso (d1f714)

  102. https://www.wired.com/story/julian-assange-arrest-indictment-hacking-cfaa/

    This claims that Assange a indicted on only one count.

    But the essence is he’s accused of encouraging “Chelsea Manning, formerly known as Bradley Manning”, to obtain secret information and give it to him.

    The indictment does call Manning “she” in brackets, so I guess they slipped up on totally avoiding sex ppronouns for Manning.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  103. Manning had military records – and he also diplomatic cables. With every leak, Assange gave the impression that was all.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  104. @100

    The Collateral Murder video; Manning was convicted for this.

    The Afghanistan documents; Assange says they do not know the source and their system is designed to not keep that, the US tried to determine the source and listed Manning as a possible suspect, Manning was not convicted for this.

    The Iraq documents; same. I don’t know and I haven’t done enough research to be willing to speculate.

    The cable leaks; same. I don’t know.

    One theory is that Manning released all of these, possibly in one or a few batches, and that WikiLeaks restructured them into these groups and decided the release schedule.

    frosty48 (6226c1)

  105. there was speculation, by Charlie martin, at the time, who has some insight into the matter, that the volume of material was such that manning couldn’t have been the only source, again since the pentagon papers case, no publisher has been found liable, the times notably with kirikaou, who leaked the names of his colleagues to gitmo detainee counsel and the new York times, or sterling who revealed operation merlin to james risen, on a slightly similar level was that Korean asset and james rosen,

    narciso (d1f714)

  106. The diplomatic cables actually caused the Arab Spring. Something Assange had probbably not intended.

    Today the dictator of the Sudan (President Omar al-Bashir) was toppled. There were 4 months of protests and he had no outside country helping him. The armed forces was still all Sudanese, too. probably

    The protesters are not happy. So maybe this is like Zimbabwe.

    cf: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/16/opinion/sudan-protests-bashir.html

    https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-africa-47849618

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/11/world/africa/omar-bashir-sudan.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  107. the new boss, ibn awf is also wanted for war crimes like the old boss,

    I wouldn’t be so sure, sammeh, Assange knows what happened when the Bolsheviks published the diplomatic understandings that included sykes picot, and nearly 60 years later, the hostage takers, revealed the cable traffic re the Bhutto coup among others,

    narciso (d1f714)

  108. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_diplomatic_cables_leak

    On July 30, 2013, Chelsea Manning was convicted for theft of the cables and violations of the Espionage Act, in a court martial proceeding, and sentenced to 35 years imprisonment….The publication of the cables was the third in a series of U.S. classified document “mega-leaks” distributed by WikiLeaks in 2010, following the Afghan War documents leak in July, and the Iraq War documents leak in October. Over 130,000 of the cables are unclassified, some 100,000 are labeled “confidential”, around 15,000 have the higher classification “secret”, and none are classified as “top secret” on the classification scale.

    Assangefrst relased the military information (and someof it actually helped the United States’ reputation.)

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  109. The Collateral Murder video, and story. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/apr/05/wikileaks-us-army-iraq-attack

    It’s not the worst atrocity American soldiers have committed; but nothing to dispel the argument that they’re scum who joined the Army as an alternative to welfare or prison, either.

    nk (dbc370)

  110. Assange maybe expected other tings (harmful to the United States) Cablegate caused the Arab Spring because it revealed what the U.S. Ambassador to Tunisia sad about its government.

    So Sudan is like Zimbabwe so far. Still better than Syria or Venezuela.

    As I said I think Assange’s arrest may have been caused by Ecuador wanting the U.S. to listen to more of what it says; and by Trump’s desire to get the full Mueller report out so it can’t be said there are damaging hidden allegations in there. It was probably Mueller’s investigation that resulted in the indictment of Assange.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  111. 110.The Collateral Murder video refuted the notion that it was on purpose, and made clear it was an honest mistake.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  112. Congrats to David Morales for his new judgeship in the Southern District of Texas.

    mg (8cbc69)

  113. They were too callous – but they thought it was enemy soldiers.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  114. They had no idea anyone was a reporter there, or not aiming anything at them.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  115. The Noeing 737 max had some software put in there so that less well trained pilots wouldn’t cras the plane , but it caused crashes. I don’t know that there is any way for Boeing to sove the problem.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  116. 110… I don’t know, nk… never having served in the military – especially in a time of war – I would hesitate to impugn the motivation or actions of those who have.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  117. Having said that, it did not look good. But they claimed the ROE were followed. 2007 was a pretty crazy time over there.

    Lesson One: never be a part of a gathering of young males. I have a friend who was there in Iraq on business during the Summer of 2003… looking at what was left of telecommunications infrastructure… the photos of the damage and overall conditions he forwarded were sobering.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  118. Mostly I’m in a bad mood because nobody will explain the “I Love Wednesdays” post to me.

    nk (dbc370)

  119. @120 there are several options; one is that it is a variation of the Rebecca Black – Friday meme.

    frosty48 (6226c1)

  120. Just be grateful this twit is president in April, 2019 and not April, 1942.

    Or October, 1962.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  121. With the demand for rubber due to the war effort, what did you use for your bicycle tires in April ’42, DCSCA?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  122. A humorous take on this

    Totally safe for work

    Chuck Bartowski (a2c25f)

  123. Donald J Trump
    @realDonaldTrump

    Fake News Media going CRAZY! Went to see My Gal Sal. Great time!

    11:54 PM – April 30, 1942
    21.8K 13K people are talking about this

    frosty48 (6226c1)

  124. @123. Will ask the maid if the chauffeur recalls.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  125. @125. LOL

    Donald J Trump
    @realDonaldTrump

    12:01 AM – April 1, 1942
    I’d date Rita. Great gams. But Orson: what a load. Loser. Sad. MAGA/backtheattack

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  126. nk- follow the link in the second comment and you will find that the videos are from an NPR podcast that releases every Wednesday.

    kaf (8d3b64)

  127. Haiku might know “Friday” Rebecca Black (shes from Anaheim Heights).

    urbanleftbehind (871cef)

  128. Thank you, kaf and frosty48. I did follow the link. I guess it’s me.

    nk (dbc370)

  129. Guess Assange won’t be leaking Putie-Cat’s unredacted copy of the Mueller Report. Just drop the thumb drive in the mail to the NY Times, Vlad.

    … and Putin smiled.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  130. 129… only if her mama’s name is Denise…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  131. Anaheim Hills?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  132. I dunno, all these little cities now in that part of the county. Laguna Woods.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  133. It’s not the worst atrocity American soldiers have committed…

    It wasn’t an atrocity. It was war and done within the rules of engagement. There were military-age men with rifles and RPGs in proximity of American soldiers. I remember the argument well.
    http://theforvm dot org/diary/username/they-hate-us-our-freedom#comment-213167

    Paul Montagu (7968e9)

  134. French is on a roll. The final paragraph:

    It’s become increasingly clear that there exists a class of Americans who view their fellow citizens — including politicians from the opposing political party — as almost an existential threat to the American republic. In that case, the enemy of their enemy becomes their friend, even when that “friend” is the actual entity trying to undermine American security, divide American society, and even threaten American lives. Julian Assange was a window into America’s polarized soul, and the view he revealed is ugly, petty, and deeply dispiriting.

    Trump in 2016: “Oh, we love WikiLeaks”
    Trump earlier today: “I know nothing about WikiLeaks”

    Paul Montagu (7968e9)

  135. Come to think of it, it’s probably true that Trump loves Wikileaks and knows nothing about it.

    Paul Montagu (7968e9)

  136. Has French had his water checked for fluoridation?! Has he figured out why the Rooskies targeted infiltrating the NRA?!

    It’ll dawn on him.

    Some day.

    Sad.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  137. There are no coincidences; there’s a reason Ecuador rescinded Assange’s asylum now– and it ain’t because of his stink or his stinking kitty.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  138. 122)Um RFK was fooled by a gru operative who worked for tass, bolshakov who told him there were no missiles in cuba

    And needless to say if Yamamoto had been a little luckier we might have lost the carriers at pearl.

    Narciso (f03fe6)

  139. @140. Um, Trump: Helsinki.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  140. 73 90% of republicans voted for trump as did 90% of democrats voted for clinton ;however 6 million less democrats voted in 2016 then voted in 2012

    lany (0cd529)

  141. 87 I voted third party. assange went after the truth both in 2010 and 2016 that is the news media’s job except at msnbc which has been attacking assuage.

    lany (0cd529)

  142. FWIW, my ‘prediction,’ post Trump – who is a transient to be sure- is the next successful GOP candidate for the top spot will be what we once called a ‘Rockefeller Republican.’

    IOW ‘A Loser.’

    Pinandpuller (9e3ea8)

  143. Assange is journalism at its best. what the government doesn’t want you to know is news. what they want you to know is propaganda. journalist all over the world are persecuted for bring the truth to the people. the first amendment is for this very purpose.

    lany (0bb0e1) — 4/11/2019 @ 1:28 pm

    I like the way you think. It’s all just a Luciferian Puppet Show.

    Pinandpuller (9e3ea8)

  144. And needless to say if Yamamoto had been a little luckier we might have lost the carriers at pearl.

    Narciso (f03fe6) — 4/11/2019 @ 9:40 pm

    Yeah, good thing we had the Japanese codes, huh?

    Pinandpuller (9e3ea8)

  145. 144 the republican party before trump was an empty shell run by 10% of party that had the money and power. neo-cons and wealthy libertarian conservatives like koch brothers. the republican base were social conservative populists. The 10% could run the party by buy candidates with campaign money bush 2000/romney 2012. when a populist with money (trump) came along jeb bush’s 100 million dollars was meaningless. throwing a bone to the gun and anti-abortion base no longer worked. after trump not rockefeller republicans but populists as base won’t put up with free trade pro immigration corporate establishment donor class candidates.

    lany (0cd529)

  146. You know who had the worst news, right? Poor Stormy. If she had any hope of recovering the $293,000 she owes Trump’s lawyers from Avenatti, it vanished now that he is definitely on his way to the pokey.

    nk (dbc370)

  147. Not initially pin, I remember that from cryptonomicon

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/barr-brings-accountability-11555022792

    Narciso (177328)

  148. Still recycling Carl oglesby through Kirkpatrick sale Perry, he put the Nixon rise through a struggle between wasp Yankees (typified by Kennedy and rickefeller) and western figures (Nixon and goldeater)

    Narciso (177328)

  149. Niki Hoeky Stormy Hoeky by PJ Prober

    Stormy, Stormy, Stormy Hoeky
    Your lawyer’s doin’ time in the pokey
    Your sellin’ yo ass
    You’re lookin’ so crass
    Little girl you ain’t smellin’ too good
    You ooh boog-a-boo you
    You ooh boog-a-boo you, little girl
    Get hip to the consultation of the bourgeoisie

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  150. Morrison kirikaou and sterling were convicted because they were the sources Jane’s defense the times were not implicated:
    Sacred stone steps associated with Jesus Christ’s crucifixion uncovered for first time in 300 years
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/04/11/sacred-stone-steps-associated-christs-crucifixion-uncovered/

    Narciso (5d05fe)

  151. 137. Paul Montagu (7968e9) — 4/11/2019 @ 8:48 pm

    Come to think of it, it’s probably true that Trump loves Wikileaks and knows nothing about it.

    It would be more correct to say that Trump loved Wikileaks in 2016, except that probably wasn’t really true either. He just loved one thing they did. Or rather hoped his potential voters did. And he was making amistake if he thought Wikileaks did much odamage Hillary’s reputation – that was the emails, and things obtained by the Associated Press, the Western Journalism Center, and the Republican National Commmittee.

    It’s true though, that talking about Wikileaks, kept attention on the general issue of trust or character with regard to Hillary Clinton. But it wasn’t Wikileaks, mostly. It made undeniable that the DNC had tried to rig the primary for Hillary. It revealed her speeches to Goldman Sachs, which actually stopped talk on that issue. It revealed that someone working for the Clintons called it Clinton Inc.

    Sammy Finkelman (30b6b6)

  152. “I’m generalizing here quite a bit, but the anti-Trump party (my party) consists of the few people who believe in positive principles like limited government, the free market and the rule of law. We will applaud Assange’s arrest and cheer on his prosecution.”

    Of all the reasons to applaud Assange’s arrest, this is the most vile and Satanically contradictory reason I can imagine.

    “Imagine what it would be like to write a blog and suddenly have 85% of your readers become Democrats.”

    ‘Arresting Assange for a charge that was previously dropped on the actual guilty party and would lead to the immediate imprisonment of a majority of journalists is a classically limited, liberatarian and lawful decision!’

    …is the type of thing I expect to hear from washed-up Democrats who don’t care anymore, or perhaps washed up moderate Republicans who never really cared to begin with.

    Most Republicans hated Manning and Snowden (the traitors who actually did the hacking and the stealing) much more than the foreign national who simply published it, thankfully with far more discretion than expected. And after four years of the national security state having less and less to recommend it, the anger by everyone except the national security state cooled considerably.

    Julian Assange is in prison not because people gained a new appreciation for liberty but because he angered too many powerful people, and that’s the long and short of it.

    Jerrod (0f94ad)

  153. OT, but seems to be big news:

    “Attorney General William Barr shocked official Washington Wednesday by saying what previously couldn’t be said: That the counterintelligence investigation into the Trump campaign in 2016 involved “spying.”
    The spying, which Barr vowed to investigate, is not the only significant possible violation of investigative rules and ethics committed by agents, lawyers, managers, and officials at the FBI and the Department of Justice. A catalogue of those abuses can be found in recently released testimony that ex-FBI official Edward William Priestap provided to Congress in a closed-door interview last summer.

    From the end of 2015 to the end of 2018, Bill Priestap was assistant director of the FBI’s Counterintelligence Division, which meant he oversaw the FBI’s global counterintelligence efforts. In that role, he managed both of the bureau’s most politically sensitive investigations: the inquiry into Hillary Clinton’s handling of classified information and the probe into whether Donald Trump or his campaign conspired with Russia to steal the 2016 presidential election. His testimony provides rare insight into the attitudes and thoughts of officials who launched the Russia probe and the probe of Special Counsel Robert Mueller, whose final report is expected to be released very soon.

    More important, his testimony contains extensive indications of wrongdoing, including that the FBI and DoJ targeted Trump and did so with information it made no effort to verify. It paints a portrait of the Obama-era bureau as one that was unconcerned with political interference in investigations and was willing to enlist the help of close foreign allies to bring down its target. And, perhaps presaging a defense to Barr’s claim that American officials had spied on the Trump campaign, it showcases the euphemisms that can be used to disguise “spying.”

    Filling In the Blanks

    Priestap’s testimony took place on June 5, 2018, in Room 2226 of the Rayburn House Office Building. The questioning, by congressmen and House committee staff, focused on whether the FBI had applied the same rigor to the Clinton investigation that it had to the Trump probe.

    The transcript the public can read today contains not only those questions and Priestap’s responses, but also the tell-tale redactions of anxious bureaucrats. One thing that is very clear is that the Sharpie brigades at the Federal Bureau of Investigation and Department of Justice really, really didn’t want anyone to know where Bill Priestap was a week into May 2016.”

    Read the whole enchilada: https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2019/04/11/fbi_mans_testimony_points_to_significant_wrongdoing_beyond_spying.html

    Colonel Haiku (6a972a)

  154. And of course, the predictable corporate media response was various versions of THIS IS A SHOCK, AN OUTRAGE, UNPRECEDENTED, IT’S NOT TECHNICALLY WIRETAPPING IF WE DON’T TAP THE LANDLINES!!!

    So many deserving repercussions to deliver to these shameless ghouls, so little time. Hopefully Trump dumps every single alien he’s forced to release directly into their city centers. If they won’t defend the Kate Steinles of the nation, they deserve as many opportunities to have more as they can get.

    Jerrod (4a2db3)

  155. The smart money is this is the easy out for Assange. Even if convicted of the hacking charge that might not result in any significant penalty. If Trump wanted to get Assange out and about this is the best way to do it. A pardon has blowback. If he goes to trial and they can’t prove he’s the one that helped Manning there’s no blowback on him. In fact, you should start preparing yourself for another discussion of what innocent, not guilty, and exonerated.

    frosty48 (acc0e0)

  156. It’s actually dubious considering the section 1030 charge, but statute of limitations and other elements dont apply look at the Manafort tax indictments, 10 years later no one was arrested for the burning of the hintrsses xhurch.

    Narciso (c31c88)

  157. Jumping bail in the UK is a wrist slap — we’re talking custodial punishments of weeks if at all — so we’ll be seeing what happens with the extradition pretty soon no matter what. I will laugh and laugh and laugh if in the end, we, like the Swedes, decline to prosecute and it turns out the dweeb gave himself a seven-year prison sentence.

    nk (dbc370)


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