Patterico's Pontifications

1/31/2019

Note From The Left: No One Is “Self-Made”

Filed under: General — Dana @ 1:15 pm



[guest post by Dana]

Untitled

By this logic, if you’ve ever driven on a highway, attended a public school, or utilized any other taxpayer funded program, you can never claim to be self-made – even if you become a billionaire through sheer determination, hard work and a belief in yourself. As such, the term “self-made” no longer has any meaning or value in our society.

Here are some more examples of how Schultz’s accurate claim of being “self-made” has angered those on the left:

“Howard Schultz: I’m a self-made billionaire. Also Howard Schultz: The federal government paid for my housing,” tweeted Jamison Foser, who serves currently as a senior adviser to the Tom Steyer-founded political action committee NextGen America.

New York Times magazine’s Nikole Hannah-Jones said elsewhere that “Growing up in government-(i.e. taxpayer) subsidized housing is actually the opposite of making it by yourself. Your fellow Americans put in so your parents could provide you decent housing.” She was re-tweeted in this anti-poor sentiment by no less than MSNBC’s Chris Hayes.

“No one is self-made,” grumbled economist David Rothschild. “‘Projects in Brooklyn’ are government funded housing. Government also educated him, etc. [Starbucks] thrives because US military ensures the security of our international trade, police/fire protect its buildings, roads/sidewalks transport their customers.”

Also, here is More:

Growing up in government-(ie taxpayer)subsidized housing is actually the opposite of making it by yourself. Your fellow Americans put in so your parents could provide you decent housing.

Beckett Adams sums up ridiculousness of it all:

We’re really going to do this? We’re going to stupidly pretend that “self-made” means something other than “I did not inherit my wealth”? It’d be one thing if these critics were aiming to tear down the idea of individualism. It’d be one thing if they sought to underscore a contradiction between Schultz’s personal story and his position on whether social safety nets ought to be eliminated (he hasn’t advocated for this).

But they’re not doing any of those things. Their complaints amount to nothing more than: You’re not “self-made” if you were once poor enough to qualify for government assistance. As New York magazine’s Ezekiel Kweku notes, this is just as stupid as saying, “you’re not self-made, your parents didn’t let you starve to death.”

At this rate, it’s a guarantee we’ll see even dumber attacks on the most vanilla personality ever to mull a presidential bid in the United States. For now, though, dunking on kids from the projects is the low point of the Left’s anti-Schultz freak out.

Wealth envy is such an unattractive quality. But hey, it’s so much easier to attack someone else for having the grit and fortitude to propel themselves from poverty to being a creator of wealth rather than push the big rock uphill and create one’s own wealth.

(Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.)

–Dana

160 Responses to “Note From The Left: No One Is “Self-Made””

  1. Government-by-envy. It’s what we’ve had going on since at least 1913. And it’s only gotten worse. That’s how Occasional-Cortex and Burn-me Sanders manage to feed at the government trough by being elected.

    Gryph (08c844)

  2. I’m amused by the left side of the aisle’s tailspin over Schultz.

    Dana (023079)

  3. 2. I know, right? It’s almost like they fear him or something. Donald Trump redux.

    Gryph (08c844)

  4. They would be so much happier if government had all the money rather than individuals daring to be “self-made” and putting a serious kink in the plan for cradle to grave care.

    Dana (023079)

  5. I’m offended. Brandon Friedman is saying that I’m not a billionaire because i’m some kind of slacker. And I didn’t even get the benefit of growing up in government projects! So, I was cheated, too.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  6. It’s almost like they fear him or something.

    What they fear is him splitting the liberal vote, resulting in Trump being reelected. And this time, Trump will have a plurality of the popular vote, and they won’t have that cudgel to use against him.

    Chuck Bartowski (bc1c71)

  7. The whole Schultz reaction really evidences the fractures within the Democratic Party.

    Dana (023079)

  8. Jack Douchey’s twatter makes people stupid

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  9. I think the claim of being self-made is grating, at best, to the left, because it implies an enormous disrespect to the people who helped the claimant along the way, a blindness to the social services which made success possible, and a blindness to the things they started out with.

    Let me use myself as an example.

    I have a reasonable claim to being a self-made man. I grew up the child of a single mother who never made more money any year in her life than i did my first year out of college. She was married repeatedly to a series of abusive men, and in short-term relationships with other abusive men. Once I ran away from home at age 17, I relied on her for nothing, and I’ve never met my father. What money I’ve received from my extended family I got well after I was already successful in my career (and was in no way necessary to my financial stability). At the same time, I’m a successful software engineer, and i’m a licensed but nonpractising lawyer.

    But, outside the confines of this example, I would never, ever, ever describe myself as a self-made man. Because i’m not, in this sense:

    * my ability to pay for college was due entirely to some assistance provided by my high school guidance counselor who got me treated as independent for financial aid purposes even though under the general rules i shouldn’t have been so treated
    * my education was largely paid for by loans subsidized by the state
    * my initial career choice was an accidental by product of college employment which was chosen essentially at random
    * my ability to do well in my profession is at least in part a result of skills and thought processes imparted by my extended family when i was a child, without which i would not be as competent or as capable as i am
    * i spent several summers during college living essentially on the charity of my friends and their families

    to claim to be self-made would be to deny all of these, and to allege that i *did it all myself*. But I didn’t — I worked hard, and I was successful, but absent the help I received from others, I wouldn’t have been, and claiming to be self-made kicks sand in the face of those who helped me.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  10. 9. I don’t have a problem with the wealthy claiming to be self-made. What I have a problem is when they utterly lie about it.

    One of the biggest douchebags I’ve ever had the dubious privilege of working for is a fourth-generation grocer in my hometown. To hear him talk, you’d think he’s the hardest working man in the entire city of 28,000+ — and he inherited his entire fortune. He’s the very living definition of “trust fund baby.”

    On the other hand, I do view people such as Steve Jobs to be self-made. Yes, he would not have made it as he did without the help of Steve Wozniak, Mike Markkula, and others, but even accepting help from Woz and Mike was a conscious decision on Jobs’ part. It’s not as though Jobs was forced to accept their help. And that three-legged stool was the foundation of an empire that was built from scratch any way you cut it.

    And as for you Aphrael, don’t shortchange yourself. When it comes to being a self-made man, however you define the term, you are a product of the decisions you made and the actions you took. And you seem to have turned out okay, at least as near as I can tell. 😉

    Gryph (08c844)

  11. It’s interesting that Tom Steyer’s goon (not to mention a guy named Rothschild) attacks Schultz for having the benefit of government housing, public schools and other public service.

    Steyer himself never had that kind of help, having to suffer through Philips Exeter and Yale on his way to Stanford Business School and a partnership at a private equity firm. I guess he hates to hear people who started with less “self-made” when the proper term is “social climber”.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  12. 11. “Old money” has been mocking “new money” since before the unsinkable Molly Brown.

    Gryph (08c844)

  13. This is a dumb enough argument that I wonder if it was intentionally so. It forces the reader to think about how this guy really did accomplish something impressive by working his way up from ‘the projects’ to the CEO of a very successful company. If you think you figured that out for yourself, the thought will persist for a long time.

    Either way, of course every Americans success rests in some way on how great this country is. Who cares?

    Anyone supporting Trump really has no basis to complain about this man. None. It’s going to be interesting watching all the GOP shills over the next few years tell us that someone who is clearly a better man or woman than Trump isn’t good enough.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  14. 13. “Better than Trump” isn’t a high bar when we’re talking about politics.

    Gryph (08c844)

  15. Anyone who thinks that Schultz will “split the liberal vote” is whistling past the graveyard. He will take the vote from the independents and the centrists of both parties. How much will depend on who the Democrats nominate and how untenable Trump’s position remains in 2020.

    There are a lot of GOP voters who chose Trump because they could not stomach Clinton. There are a loty of Democrat voters who chose Clinton because they could not stomach Trump. There are others who voted independent or third-party rather than choose between two turkeys (e.g. our host and myself).

    I support Trump as president because we only get one president at a time, and he does things I like more often than not. But he is decidedly suboptimum.

    I doubt I would vote for the Communists that the Dems are considering. Maybe they’ll choose someone who isn’t utterly terrible, but I wouldn’t bet on it. If the choice were Trump vs Biden, it is not clear to me which way I’d vote in a state where it matters, although a Dem Congress would make any Dem president a nightmare.

    Give me another choice, and I’ll consider it.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  16. Your point is well taken, aphrael. Very few, if any, of us are truly self-made, but at the same time those who believe strongly in the beneficence of big government have a gross habit of overstating how integral government support is in our lives. I think a lot of us on the right are seeing this who brouhaha over Schultz’s words to be just a continuation of the battle a few years back when first Elizabeth Warren and then Barack Obama let loose with the “you didn’t build that” narrative, and we aren’t about to let that tired canard make a comeback.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  17. For those who think that Trump is a shoo-in in 2020, note that the Democrats are so sure he isn’t that they’ll have 20 candidates before long. They see a repeat of 2008.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  18. 15. I’m not smart enough to predict how Schultz could affect a three-way run. What I do know is that there was a third candidate running in 2016 whose name was on all 50 state ballots. It didn’t really matter then.

    Gryph (08c844)

  19. Wow, liberals really hate Schultz.

    Paul Montagu (cbbfc4)

  20. 19. Before the 2016 election cycle, I would have thought that would be enough reason for me to like him. Now? The libs hated Trump solely because of the R behind his name which hadn’t even been there that long. It’s like Richard Nixon all over again; he’d be a liberal dream candidate if not for running in the wrong party.

    Gryph (08c844)

  21. Yes, he would not have made it as he did without the help of Steve Wozniak, Mike Markkula…

    But there were a lot of Wozniaks available in the Valley. Ste34ve was nore in the right place at the right time than critical to Apple’s success. Jobs, on the other hand was the indispensable man, something that the Board proved by firing him. He then founded two successful companies, as Apple tanked, and they begged him to come back to avert bankruptcy.

    Jobs succeeded at everything he touched other than soap.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  22. Anyone who thinks that Schultz will “split the liberal vote” is whistling past the graveyard. He will take the vote from the independents and the centrists of both parties.

    The other effect Shultz might have if he gains some traction is that Democrats might have to dial back the class warfare rhetoric a bit and maybe Republicans might get serious about deficit reduction again. Without Ross Perot, does anyone think the deficit would have played as large a role in the 1992 election as it ultimately did? According to some of the early books of the Clinton Administration by Bob Woodward and Elizabeth Drew, it really forced Clinton to pare back his ambitions for lots and lots of new government spending, including on nationalized health insurance, and I think most of us agree that it set the course for the GOP’s takeover of Congress in 1994.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  23. 21. …succeeded to varying degrees. The entire concept of graphical user interface was founded at the Xerox Palo Alto Research Center, practically a stone’s throw from Cupertino. Jobs recognized its commercial potential while no one at Xerox did.

    And if you asked Jobs himself who was most responsible for Apple’s success, he’d be happy to tell you it wasn’t necessarily Jobs himself:

    I had the ideas and Woz made them happen, but without major financial backing from Mike there would be no Apple, Incorporated.

    As for Markkula, he retired a multi-millionaire several times over after retiring from Intel and previously serving on the board of Fairchild Semiconductor. He had some technical expertise in his own right and was almost singlehandedly responsible for the adoption of the Disk][ floppy drive system in the Apple II computers when he realized cassette tapes just wouldn’t cut it for loading VisiCalc.

    As for Jobs’ post-Apple success? His success, such as it was, came from taking ideas that he had started working with while he was still at Apple. And the NExT station never enjoyed the widespread commercial success of anything he did at Apple; at least not until he took elements of the NExT’s operating system and folded it back into what would become the Iphone. But by then, of course, the Apple/NExT merger had brought him back into the fold years prior.

    Gryph (08c844)

  24. Gryph, don’t underestimate Jobs’ other major success, Pixar.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  25. to claim to be self-made would be to deny all of these, and to allege that i *did it all myself*

    That is not what “self-made” means. None of the benefits you cite were unavailable to others, or unusual. A person who inherits $400 million has a leg up over nearly everyone. A person who gets a student loan gets nothing special.

    What they are saying is that NO AMERICAN can be called self made, not even a rap star from Watts. It’s a totally socialist point of view, which sees the State as the source of all good, and claims that the State’s “investment” in a public education for, say, Steve Jobs (who grew up in a blue-collar family) is the main basis for his later accomplishment.

    Which is a load of crap.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  26. 24. Jobs didn’t found Pixar. Pixar was an offshoot of Industrial Light and Magic’s computer graphics division. Jobs’ major contribution to what would become Pixar was the NExT, which was able to do pretty much everything the Mac could do at a fraction of the price.

    Fun fact: The first WorldWideWeb software — server and client — written by Tim Berners Lee at CERN ran on CERN’s NExT workstations, which at the time were virtually terminal on the campus.

    Gryph (08c844)

  27. JVW,

    But Perot took mostly from Bush Sr, as his balanced budget message pulled the deficit hawks out of the GOP coalition but really didn’t speak to many Democrats.

    What woke up both parties though is that 1 out of 5 voters chose Perot and this was a direct threat to the duopoly.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  28. What a stupid argument. Who cares? The guy grew and ran a successful company. Whether he used inherited money, angel/venture money, friends and family money, or printed it in his basement (just kidding!), who cares?
    I don’t go to Starbucks, but somehow someone convinced most of the U.S. and part of the rest of the planet that spending $3.00 to $5.00 (or more?) on a cup of coffee was a wonderful thing. Starbucks led a resurgence of coffee houses, internationally — what’s not to like?

    Argue about his politics (druggies shooting up in SB restrooms is a good thing to permit?), or his prescriptions for future federal policies, okay. But to argue about whether he became successful on his own or whether he “did not build that,” is downright ludicrous.

    ColoComment (b48a15)

  29. NeXT and Pixar were separate companies, and both were lead by Jobs to success. NeXT was eventually sold, ending up iirc as part of AMD. Pixar is now part of Disney.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  30. I’ve always taken “self-made man” as being going from a poor or disadvantaged background to financial success through hard work and perseverance. If you grew up in public housing, then you are economically disadvantaged relative to someone who lives in the middle-class suburbs or in a gated community. If you attend public school, then you are disadvantaged relative to someone who attends a private school or has private tutors. This is just an assessment of what resources did you and your family have while you grew up….and on that question clearly Schultz qualifies as financially disadvantaged.

    The question should be, how much of Schultz’s later financial success is actually rooted in his family’s government subsidies or his family’s personal wealth? The answer is very little. His financial success is rooted in a shrewd understanding of the marketplace, a clever idea, hard work, and a bit of luck. The fact that his family qualified for aid…or that he went to public school….or that he drove on public highways…is not what made him a billionaire…or else you would find more billionaires with such backgrounds. The Left just doesn’t understand how money is made….and we have to keep remembering that when they seek power. “You didn’t build this” just doesn’t apply to Schultz….in fact…yes he did.

    AJ_Liberty (3c84de)

  31. brandon friedman, was the lefty hack of votevets, who minimized the va scandal, when it came out from his perch at hud, you have to work at being a purer hack

    narciso (d1f714)

  32. Oh. NEXT went to Apple. I had them confused with another startup whose employees ended up at AMD.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  33. 29. NeXT actually got bought lock stock and Barrel by…
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    Wait for it…
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    Apple, Inc.

    It was Apple’s 1996 purchase of NeXT that resulted in Jobs coming back into the fold. After years of plummeting Mac sales the chuckleheads on the Apple board gave up on trying to improve the MacOS without Jobs’ input so they decided to use the parts of the NeXT development environment that they liked, and the easiest way to do that was to buy the whole thing — including Jobs.

    Pixar is part of Disney, but Jobs did not found Pixar nor did he have much in the way of creative control. Inasmuch as the NeXT workstations made Pixar’s success possible, you might say that Jobs did have a hand in it. But his “leadership” at Pixar consisted of basically buying his way on to the board and selling them [relatively] inexpensive computers with which to do their graphical rendering. By his own admission, Jobs knew nothing about making movies and showed little inclination towards learning.

    Gryph (08c844)

  34. @AJ_Liberty

    Yes, your comment is the sensible, common-place understanding of “self made.”

    It is really shocking how much adolescent twaddle passes for intelligent commentary. According to these morons, unless you were abandoned on a rock at birth and given no help by anyone ever, you cannot be called “self-made.” (Reminds me of “you didn’t make this” by a certain president whose name begins with a vowel.)

    Bored Lawyer (998177)

  35. Bill Gates had the benefit of a affluent family, a decent education, and some seed capital ($1 million, iirc). Is he self-made?

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  36. (Reminds me of “you didn’t make this” by a certain president whose name begins with a vowel.)

    The State is Mother. The State is Father…

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  37. 35. Bill Gates was also a monumental douchebag. Go google “Bill Gates Mugshot” and read the story behind it.

    He could have had a decent education, but he dropped out of Harvard and was successful despite his lack of a college degree.

    Gryph (08c844)

  38. NexGen is the company that went to AMD. I had them confused with NeXT.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  39. Bill Gates was also a monumental douchebag.

    He got arrested for running a staked-out stop sign at 17 (and ranting at the cop) and was held incommunicado in jail for hours. His dad — a big deal lawyer — went after the officer for abuse of authority and got him fired.

    Monumental? Hardly.

    Douchebag? The cop thought so, I’m sure.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  40. Aside from the already noted public facilities and enterprises Schultz has availed himself to through his professional and personal life, he peddled an end product derived from a raw material, the vast bulk of which, is grown outside of the United States. Just like a drug cartel. It’s ripe Trump tariff and tax territory.

    The smooth and mellow Schultz is being properly roasted; but does deserve credit for being a successful marketer, providing people a pricey fix of caffeine; the world’s most widely consumed psychoactive drug. That’s about it.

    Never been to a Starbucks. Only a chump would pay $5 for a thirty-five-cent-cuppa-joe in a paper cup. Buy American first, like our Captain does, and get your daily jolt of the ‘Big-C’ from Georgia-born Diet Coke. Try it on your Frosted Flakes… ‘they’re grrreat!’

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  41. 39. That was the mugshot incident, yes. There were also multiple other times that he spent nights in jail for unpaid traffic tickets and bench warrants. Daddy Gates got tired of bailing him out and Billy boy didn’t straighten out his act until Dad made it clear that Bill III couldn’t rely on his help anymore.

    I’m sure Paul Allen laughed about long before his passing, but Bill crashed two of Allen’s cars that at the time were virtually irreplaceable.

    Gryph (08c844)

  42. “He could have had a decent education, but he dropped out of Harvard and was successful despite his lack of a college degree.”

    Maybe he got an education that was still decent but just didn’t happen to be the Harvard version.

    I’ve learned much more about dealing with life and being self-sufficient from my experiences outside the university.

    Said a version of this in a previous thread but I’ll say it again: Schultz is about to have everything he’s ever said, written or done examined through the gotcha microscope by the sort of people who think photos of coal miners are racist.

    harkin (97db13)

  43. when reality is not a self limiting principle, it’s like the matrix, anything can be stated:

    http://invisibleserfscollar.com/systematizing-human-nature-via-internalized-marxian-standards-of-truth-goodness-and-beauty/

    narciso (d1f714)

  44. His coffee is awful.

    mg (8cbc69)

  45. 44. And it still made him a billionaire. I guess American tastes aren’t too discerning.

    Gryph (08c844)

  46. You know, if [commenter name removed as per rule] was the centrist he claimed to be rather than the leftwing troll that he emulates, he’d be all for Schultz. But instead, he attacks him, as he does anything done by a non-leftist.

    Try on the shoe.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  47. 45. No, but they are still searching for that good 35-cent cup of coffee that DCSCA alludes to.

    Good, cheap, convenient, pick any two.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  48. Starbucks is a great business model, but I agree their coffee ain’t great. Providing a second living room to hang out, where you can buy ten cents worth of coffee for $4, is genius. Dunkin has better coffee. Hell, McDonalds has better coffee if you find a good one. My HEB grocery store sells coffee by the cup for a buck, and its quality blows Starbucks out of the water.

    Like burgers and steaks, if coffee is a big deal to you, make your own.

    But that doesn’t change that Shultz, like Romney, probably has some capability to run things. Does he believe in a balanced budget? I seem to recall he refused to answer questions about this, so he’s a non-starter for me.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  49. You know, if [commenter name removed as per rule] was the centrist he claimed to be rather than the leftwing troll that he emulates, he’d be all for Schultz. But instead, he attacks him, as he does anything done by a non-leftist.

    Try on the shoe.

    Kevin M (21ca15) — 1/31/2019 @ 3:41 pm

    That’s a personal attack, and passive aggressively pretending you didn’t insult him doesn’t help. You’ve been disrespectful towards me as well lately. Whatever has gotten into you lately, you need to lighten up about different views. It’s not a big deal that he’s a “leftist” or not. Who cares? It’s a big country.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  50. Actually, since I spend about 60 cents for each fresh cup of Starbucks-brand Pike’s that I brew in my Keurig, I guess you CAN have good, cheap and convenient.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  51. Is it a personal attack to note that a commenter is inconsistent with what he claims to be? If, when lied to, I say “That’s a lie!” am I attacking the person? Or the dishonest way he is presenting his argument?

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  52. something like 99.6% of the coffee we consume is imported so the starbucks douche is single-handedly responsible for a huge gob of trade deficit

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  53. Trump’s hotels sell coffee, too. Probably partner with Starbucks to do it, too.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  54. passive aggressively pretending

    is as much of a personal attack, you know.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  55. God so ugly. It gets so tiresome.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  56. > NO AMERICAN can be called self made

    I think the argument is actually that *no person* can be called self-made; that being self-made is a myth propogated by people who confuse legitimate and justified pride in their own accomplishments with the fiction that they did it themselves, without any help from anybody. We’re not isolates! We’re individuals, but we’re in a network of connections to other people, and that means that our successes aren’t ever entirely our own; they may be *mostly* ours, but that’s not the same thing.

    > It’s a totally socialist point of view, which sees the State as the source of all good

    Not at all! The allegedly but not actually “self-made” man was only successful because of contributions (financial, emotional, physical) from his family and friends, or from his church, or from the neighbor down the street who took him in and taught him the things his parents couldn’t, etc, etc. Support from *the state* is by no means the issue; the issue is having the humility and honesty to recognize that other people contributed to your success, and that while those contributions were not *sufficient* for your success, they were *necessary*.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  57. @45. Whadda Kroc. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  58. Like burgers and steaks, if coffee is a big deal to you, make your own.

    it used to be but now i make this disgusting yet oddly tasty concoction i’ve given the dystopian label of “morning beverage”

    you take half a mug of fairly thick rice milk and add a teaspoon of turmeric, 4 teaspoons of instant coffee, some cayenne (or ground jalapeno), a pinch of salt (kosher) and an ungodly amount of splenda. Then I top that off with water, stir, and nuke for 2 minutes, watching closely cause it like to jump out dat cup.

    I don’t even have a rationale for this it wakes me up and it forestalls any further breakfast and i did my turmeric, which may or may not really have any benefit to it. But I did it.

    And I think I’m a stick with this.

    I waited for awhile then just this week i packed up my nespresso machine.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  59. mg, at 44: i don’t like starbucks drip coffee. their espresso is acceptable but not great.

    but the big win for me, from starbucks, is that with the widespread success of starbucks it’s now possible to get espresso-based drinks basically everywhere. i can remember when this wasn’t the case — when the best coffee in the ontario airport, for example, was nasty diner-style coffee that had been sitting on a burner for hours. Time was, outside of the northwest and college towns, espresso was impossible to find, and if you didn’t have dunkin’ donuts, you probably only had mediocre drip coffee, too.

    the entire ecosystem of modern independent coffee shops owes an enormous debt to starbucks. and if they’re honest with you, most independent roasters and home roasters will acknowledge that debt even while complaining about how starbucks’ coffee is mediocre.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  60. To be clear: I have no problem with Schultz per se. He’s a serious, successful businessman whose work has improved my life, and he’s a reasonable candidate.

    Doesn’t mean I’ll vote for him; it’s too early to tell. As with all candidates not named Trump, i’m not taking sides for or against until much later in the primary, when I’ve had time to look at their platform and what they’re arguing for and arguing against; a rush to judgment helps nobody.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  61. > Actually, since I spend about 60 cents for each fresh cup of Starbucks-brand Pike’s that I brew in my Keurig, I guess you CAN have good, cheap and convenient.

    home roasting is also good, cheap, and convenient, and i highly recommend it.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  62. I never heard of any of those people mouthing off about Schultz that Dana cites in the post (except for Tom Steyer and he’s not the one mouthing off, it’s one of his lackeys).

    nk (dbc370)

  63. it used to be but now i make this disgusting yet oddly tasty concoction i’ve given the dystopian label of “morning beverage”

    you take half a mug of fairly thick rice milk and add a teaspoon of turmeric, 4 teaspoons of instant coffee, some cayenne (or ground jalapeno), a pinch of salt (kosher) and an ungodly amount of splenda. Then I top that off with water, stir, and nuke for 2 minutes, watching closely cause it like to jump out dat cup.

    I don’t even have a rationale for this it wakes me up and it forestalls any further breakfast and i did my turmeric, which may or may not really have any benefit to it. But I did it.

    And I think I’m a stick with this.

    I waited for awhile then just this week i packed up my nespresso machine.

    happyfeet (28a91b) — 1/31/2019 @ 3:59 pm

    This is a new one. I am trying to cut my artificial stuff, but I’ll give it a try. I take a tumeric supplement with my coffee so it’s not that far from the status quo.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  64. let me know what you think

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  65. > something like 99.6% of the coffee we consume is imported.

    this is absolutely true. coffee basically doesn’t grow in the US outside of Puerto Rico and Hawai’i, and the stuff from Hawai’i is insanely expensive. I can buy green coffee beans from Africa for around $6/pound, but green beans from Hawai’i run $16-25 per pound. That’s *green*, before anyone’s roasted them — and beans similar to those I buy for $6/pound go for $18/pound roasted at Peets, w hich suggests that roasted Hawai’ian coffee is simply not feasible for most people.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  66. @47. Allude to Aisle 3: Kroger Medium Blend – ‘smooth and mellow’ 30.5 oz., brews 235 cups: $5.99.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  67. You didn’t pick that!

    Which raises the question: Is Juan Valdez the only self-made coffee drinker?

    nk (dbc370)

  68. meh. colombian coffee is really bland. give me east african or southeast asian coffee any day!

    aphrael (3f0569)

  69. I hope that Schultz runs and runs to win. I’d vote for him over Trump and every Democrat I’ve ever heard of.

    nk (dbc370)

  70. @58. Coffee, black. White mug, brown stained; bases covered, Mr. Feet.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  71. NK, my biggest concern with a third party candidate of any name is the risk of splitting the electoral votes and throwing it to the House, which (because the House would vote *by state* rather than *by congressperson) would (a) all but guarantee a Trump win in (b) the most controversial possible way that would do the most possible to undermine the public legitimacy of the system.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  72. you know the stain thing is interesting

    as stainy as it looks, turmeric is used as a teeth whitener actually, and I kinda suspect adding it to the coffee makes it less stainy on your teeth

    i’m not 100% sure but it’s a theory

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  73. Very few, if any, of us are truly self-made, but at the same time those who believe strongly in the beneficence of big government have a gross habit of overstating how integral government support is in our lives.

    “Government’s the only thing that we all belong to” – DNC video, 2012

    I think a lot of us on the right are seeing this who brouhaha over Schultz’s words to be just a continuation of the battle a few years back when first Elizabeth Warren and then Barack Obama let loose with the “you didn’t build that” narrative, and we aren’t about to let that tired canard make a comeback.

    Maybe they’ll make a sequel to “The Life of Julia”, taking credit for “The Life of Howard”…

    Dave (1bb933)

  74. Howard Schultz grew up iun the projects while they were still somewhat good.

    By self-made anyway he would mean beyond the basics.

    You might as well say anyone who ever attended public schools owed everything to the government.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  75. which (because the House would vote *by state* rather than *by congressperson) would (a) all but guarantee a Trump win in (b) the most controversial possible way that would do the most possible to undermine the public legitimacy of the system.

    I don’t know how we got into this mindset that Presidents are popularly elected. The Constitution says no such thing. The States chuse (sic) the President, not the People, and no state is required to hold a Presidential erection (sorry, couldn’t resist). The legislatures can form their slates of Electors any way they choose.

    And the solution to your concern is simple, no Constitutional Amendment needed. States can renounce their winner-take-all rules and divide up their slates of Electors. Maine already does it.

    nk (dbc370)

  76. Even though Starbucks is a Seattle company, count me as NeverSchultz. He betrayed Seattle when he sold the Sonics to that OK City guy after he was denied a new arena by the city council. If he’ll betray a city, what else will be betray?
    BTW, I boycotted Starbucks for five years but finally gave up. I actually like their drip and iced coffees (I don’t drink lattes or mochas or frappucchinos, etc.), and I usually get their French Roast at Costco.

    Paul Montagu (27e440)

  77. I hope that Schultz runs and runs to win. I’d vote for him over Trump and every Democrat I’ve ever heard of.

    I’d want to find out more about him, but probably, yeah.

    I don’t think he has a snowball’s chance, though

    NK, my biggest concern with a third party candidate of any name is the risk of splitting the electoral votes and throwing it to the House, which (because the House would vote *by state* rather than *by congressperson) would (a) all but guarantee a Trump win in (b) the most controversial possible way that would do the most possible to undermine the public legitimacy of the system.

    (a) is a much bigger concern than (b), as far as I’m concerned.

    Contingent elections (I recently learned that presidential elections decided by the House are called that…) are perfectly legitimate. It’s how Thomas Jefferson was elected, fer crissakes!

    Dave (1bb933)

  78. If he’ll betray a city, what else will be betray?

    Business is business.

    Dave (1bb933)

  79. Good grief! He “betrayed” a city a by moving a bunch of half-naked young black men bouncing a ball around to another city? Please tell me you were joking, Paul.

    nk (dbc370)

  80. aphrael (3f0569) — 1/31/2019 @ 4:16 pm
    Fresh Market sells a 12 oz bag of Kona blend coffee for about $6. I presume from the taste they have just enough actual Kona in there to meet the legal requirements for calling it Kona, but not more than that. Their Blue Mountain blend is priced about the same, but has some Blue Mountain taste to it. Or you can get the 100% Blue Mountain for about $30, which is worth the price if you want to spend that much. I stick with the Blue Mountain blend.

    Kishnevi (14a2e1)

  81. Good grief! He “betrayed” a city a by moving a bunch of half-naked young black men bouncing a ball around to another city? Please tell me you were joking, Paul.

    Wasn’t it more a case of not getting the city to pay what he wanted them to pay for his arena, so he went looking for a city that would?

    Which instance of corporate welfare might put at least a little ping in his self-made armor.

    Kishnevi (14a2e1)

  82. Business is business.

    The Sonics were highly profitable, even in Key Arena. This was about Schultz’s ego and his childish response when city officials said “no”. Given the egos of government types he would up against in DC, his track record does speak well.

    Paul Montagu (f1c2b9)

  83. Wasn’t it more a case of not getting the city to pay what he wanted them to pay for his arena, so he went looking for a city that would?

    No, he chose to sell to an out-of-town buyer. There are a number of rich folks in Seattle who would’ve been glad to take the team off his hands, but he didn’t go that way. His actions were out of spite, and sports fans and businesses in Seattle paid the price.

    Paul Montagu (f1c2b9)

  84. Please tell me you were joking, Paul.

    Not one bit. The Sonics winning the NBA championship in ’79 was an epic moment in our city’s history, and Schultz sullied it by what he did. At the time, the Mariners and Seahawks were new franchises with losing records and uncertain futures.

    Paul Montagu (f1c2b9)

  85. Washington State is a weird place these days. They legalized marijuana and criminalized tobacco. Who would want to live with people like that?

    nk (dbc370)

  86. kishnevi — it’s a wierd, wierd, wierd day when i buy prereoasted beans. i usually roast my own.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  87. Kona blends are not required to be more than 10% kona.

    I’ve never understood the appeal of blue mountain, myself. it’s smooth, sure, but it’s hella bland.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  88. Good thing Schultz didn’t have to deal with building an arena in Boston

    On May 8, 1992, Delaware North announced that it had secured funding for a new arena, in the form of $120 million worth of loans evenly split between Bank of Boston, Fleet Bank of Massachusetts, and Shawmut National Corporation.[12] That December, a bill approving construction of the new arena was killed in the Massachusetts Senate by Senate President William M. Bulger. Legislative leaders and Delaware North attempted to reach an agreement on plans for the new arena, but in February 1993 Delaware North owner Jeremy Jacobs announced that he was backing out of the project as a result of the legislature’s demand that his company pay $3.5 million in “linkage payments”.[13] Then-Governor of Massachusetts, Bill Weld, lent strong support to a “Chapter 15″ piece of legislation that included a “section 7″ that mandated that Jeremy Jacobs of Delaware North to, as the legislation termed it, ““administer, produce, promote and sponsor no less than three charitable events per year at the New Boston Garden” and pay the proceeds from such events to the formerly-titled Metropolitan District Commission (MDC), today’s Department of Conservation and Recreation department of Government of Massachusetts.[14] Two weeks later, after a new series of negotiations, the two sides finally came to an agreement, and on February 26 the Legislature passed a bill that allowed for construction of a new sports arena.[15]

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TD_Garden

    Given that the Garden is built over North Station, I am surprised it wasn’t even more complicated. (The New York parallel would be having Madison Square Garden built on top of Penn Station or Grand Central Station.)

    Sequel to that fundraiser thing

    In the spring of 2017, a group of local teenagers from the Hyde Square Task Force group investigated the terms of TD Garden’s original development agreement, and concluded that its owners had never satisfied a legal requirement to host three fundraisers a year to benefit the agency that oversees Boston’s recreational facilities.[35] By mid-August 2017, the Massachusetts governor at the time of the TD Garden’s original construction, Bill Weld, reminded Jeremy Jacobs about the deal he had made with the state’s government in 1993 concerning the agreement.[14] As a result, in August 2017, the TD Garden agreed to pay the Massachusetts Department of Conservation and Recreation nearly $2 million.[36]

    Kishnevi (14a2e1)

  89. Actually, Schultz wasn’t making money, but he’s a billionaire and he still violated a trust with the people of Seattle. I don’t accept his apology. Schultz was partly responsible for the losses anyway because he didn’t fire the worst GM in the NBA, Wally Walker.

    Paul Montagu (f1c2b9)

  90. kishnevi — it’s a wierd, wierd, wierd day when i buy prereoasted beans. i usually roast my own.

    Kindred spirit! I take the freshness seal off my jar of Maxwell House instant coffee by myself too.

    nk (dbc370)

  91. heh.

    i have one of these – https://www.roastmasters.com/sr700.html – that i set up on my fire escape and roast maybe 1-1.5 lbs in a series of small batches.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  92. Aphrael, Blue Mountain is possibly the richest tasting coffee you will commonly find. Possibly it doesn’t travel well, so we in Florida have an advantage if it doesn’t.
    Try getting a bag of 100% BM and share it only with those friends you would share an a bottle of $100 scotch with.

    Kishnevi (14a2e1)

  93. Kindred spirit! I take the freshness seal off my jar of Maxwell House instant coffee by myself too.

    They updated the look of their Haggadah a year or two ago, btw.

    Kishnevi (14a2e1)

  94. Washington State is a weird place these days.

    Eastern Washington is conservative but western Washington can get weird, but Seattle is off the charts. The city council tried and failed to pass an income tax and then a head tax, but they did pass a tax on Big Gulps and other carbonated beverages, and they banned plastic straws. They also raised the minimum wage to $15 an hour, with low-income folks hardest hit. BTW, the marijuana shops really aren’t that big of a deal, and the commercial real estate market has benefited. By referendum, voters did away with state-operated liquor stores so now we can get our brown liquor at Costco and Safeway. Progress. FTR, I live in a ruralish area in the county north of Seattle, so their rank liberalism doesn’t affect me.

    Paul Montagu (f1c2b9)

  95. The one on top that looks like a piece of stovepipe, in the fireplace, was the kind my parents used until I was eleven. And this type of grinder.

    nk (dbc370)

  96. That late 70s Sonics team was one of my favorites. And that run by the NBA Pacific where only the Suns failed to get the rings (lost in finals to the Celtics) was amazing.

    Shelton, Gus Williams, DJ, Sikma, Jack Johnson and Downtown Freddie Brown. What a great lineup. I’d put those guards against anyone’s.

    It wasn’t the fans’ fault the team moved, and it certainly wasn’t all on Schultz. The OKC team didn’t get to keep the Sonics brand but at least they still play on the USA.

    harkin (97db13)

  97. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if every kid – wherever the kid grew up, projects, tract housing, whatever – had the motivation, work ethic, creativity and vision to build a business, cure disease, whatever it might be?

    I heard a simple proverb early this morning that I found valuable enough to pass along to my adult children:

    “Vision without action is a daydream. Action without vision is a nightmare.”

    Colonel Haiku (61b436)

  98. Banning plastic straws is no longer wierd, it’s becoming quite common.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  99. Treading on dscsa territory (totally OT. Or perhaps not.)
    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna965416

    Kishnevi (b0adf2)

  100. Some people are more self-made, some people less. Schulz seems to fall in the more category. I’ll wait and see what he says about his positions. What I’ve heard so far is a bit word-salady for me. Also, I preferred Seattle’s Best back in the day so my choice is not Starbucks if there is an option.

    Nic (896fdf)

  101. “Banning plastic straws is no longer wierd, it’s becoming quite common.”

    San Francisco has been setting the trend for weird for several decades now…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  102. Chicago has a 7 cent tax on plastic grocery store bags. Some people responded by getting reusable shopping bags. So my local Jewel checkout now asks, “Will you be needing any bags, today?” I say, “Yes, please. The cheap, turtle-killing ones.” They smile.

    nk (dbc370)

  103. My big thin is espresso, but for a while I got hooked on vietnamese coffee, but there’s only one shop for 10 miles around here.

    You think the left cant say anything stupider, well I lose.

    Narciso (430e3d)

  104. 102… that’s a keeper! 🤠

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  105. it used to be but now i make this disgusting yet oddly tasty concoction i’ve given the dystopian label of “morning beverage”

    i too imbibe a disgusting yet oddly tasty concoction i’ve given the dystopian label of “diet coke”

    if it’s good enough for our Dear Leader, it should be good enough for everyone

    Dave (1bb933)

  106. home roasting is also good, cheap, and convenient, and i highly recommend it.

    My problem is that I want 2 or three cups a day, widely spread out in time. Hence the Keurig.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  107. Allude to Aisle 3: Kroger Medium Blend – ‘smooth and mellow’ 30.5 oz., brews 235 cups: $5.99.

    Or, if you only drink 1 cup out of every pot, maybe 20 cents a cup and a lot of waste. But heck, if Kroger is your brand, it’s still a deal!

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  108. Maybe their thing Is with caribou, you know what charming fellow was on their board effendi quradawi?

    Narciso (430e3d)

  109. And the solution to your concern is simple, no Constitutional Amendment needed. States can renounce their winner-take-all rules and divide up their slates of Electors. Maine already does it.

    If every state had used the CD formula, and awarded the extra 2 “Senate” votes to the state-wide winner, Mitt Romney would have won in 2012, W would still have won in 2000, and Trump would have won handily in 2016.

    This has something to do with the fact that CD’s are often gerrymandered, by both parties.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  110. I’d want to find out more about him, but probably, yeah.

    Dave may find this hard to believe, but ditto. And I don’t find it hard to see him winning, either, assuming that the Democrats nominate someone their base will support (i.e. a total nutjob).

    About 25% of people will vote for a rapist, if Democrats nominates him. About 25% of the voters will vote for an abortionist if he is the Republican nominee. The other 50% actually care who the nominee is. In a Trump versus Harris campaign, someone in the middle (call it the Romney-to-Biden spectrum, center-right to center-left) has a really good chance if they can come off as sane, competent and moderate. Especially if they aren’t starved for money.

    Crazy gadfly Ross Perot for 19% of the vote, running against 2 capable candidates. George Wallace took the South in a protest vote. Most 3rd party candidates are on the nose-bleed fringe and attract few voters. Someone in the middle who can BE independent should do better than Perot, especially given the clowns that will be running.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  111. Of course, if Trump retires, or the GOP primaries dump him, then things will change.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  112. Banning plastic straws is no longer wierd, it’s becoming quite common.

    Why is a posture with utterly no impact on anyone, other than inconvenience, spreading. Is there a virus? I live 1000 miles from the nearest ocean. WTF good does it do here. This is another “picnic” issue, if you’ve ever been in that debate. Utter gobsmacking nonsense on stilts. Even in a coastal city it’s nonsense.

    99% of plastic trash in the oceans comes from open sewers in the third world, now that New York has stopped with the trash barges.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  113. If a state’s going to split its EVs, splitting them proportionally makes sense. splitting them by EV simply magnifies the effect of gerrymandering, and is terrible.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  114. Why focus on the offal in the city.

    Narciso (430e3d)

  115. My problem is that I want 2 or three cups a day, widely spread out in time. Hence the Keurig.
    For when you need to replace the Keurig:

    I have a $39.99 single serve coffee machine from Black and Decker. I got it at Target. It does robotically brew a cup for me to be ready when I stumble downstairs in the morning, but I don’t need that. It takes normal coffee grounds and K cups.

    What I don’t get are those K cup teas. There are, after all, tea bags.
    (Actually on those mornings I don’t have to work, loose leaf English breakfast tea is the choice.)

    Kishnevi (35d300)

  116. Does *not* robotically brew

    Kishnevi (35d300)

  117. Seattle’s Best is now owned by SBUX.

    If i want to go out and buy coffee i’ll go to Peets.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  118. We have Peets as a brand in the supermarket. Is it any good?

    Kishnevi (35d300)

  119. @117 I know. Sigh. Peets or local.

    Nic (896fdf)

  120. That late 70s Sonics team was one of my favorites. And that run by the NBA Pacific where only the Suns failed to get the rings (lost in finals to the Celtics) was amazing.

    It was short-lived for the Sonics because Magic became a Laker the next year, and he made history. Also, Dennis Johnson was dissatisfied in 1980 with his contract or something and we had to give him away, and he eventually grew up and made it to the Celtics.

    Paul Montagu (27e440)

  121. Yes that was when schultz was In high school.

    Narciso (851766)

  122. So foser is a former dnc and media mutters drone, with a Georgetown degree.

    Narciso (851766)

  123. The rest of these critics are even less significant, its like journolist not ready for prime time.

    Narciso (851766)

  124. In a Trump versus Harris campaign, someone in the middle (call it the Romney-to-Biden spectrum, center-right to center-left) has a really good chance if they can come off as sane, competent and moderate. Especially if they aren’t starved for money.

    I wanna believe there’s an alternative to Trump or another Democrat, but I just can’t see it.

    In American politics ca. 2020, the only thing in the middle of the road is yellow lines and dead armadillos…

    As I see it, a third party candidate would have to talk about Supreme Court nominations. Anything less than Full Metal Scalia means you’ll be painted as the Second Coming of Obama by the right. Anything less than federally funded abortion up to the point the child reaches puberty means you’ll be painted as the Second Coming of Adolf Trump by the left. If you try to hedge, you’ll just get it from both sides. As a practical matter, there is simply no middle ground here.

    I personally think the Supreme Court is overrated. Of course it’s important. But I’m hard-pressed to think of a Supreme Court decision in the last 20 or 30 years, except for Bush v. Gore, that made any real difference in my life.

    Dave (1bb933)

  125. @107. Waste?

    Day old brew; iced coffee. ‘Good to the last drop.’

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  126. Hilarious that Democrats can move from Ecumenically Pander Unto All to “AYN RAND WASN’T LIBERTARIAN ENOUGH, IF YOU TOOK ANY GOVERNMENT MONEY AT ANY TIME IN YOUR LIFE, YOU DIDN’T BUILD THAT!” when someone comes along whose polling crosstabs can pull all the female urbanites who weren’t going to vote for Trump anyway.

    As for Schultz himself, no, no, no, no, no. The acumen that leads you to realize ‘people will pay way more for a simulacrum of Authenticity(TM) with their overpriced coffee’ is absolutely unsuited for ‘this starvation for authenticity is a BAD THING, lets try to solve the underlying problem rather than just building profit structures for me and mine on top of wandering and desperate people while everything else goes to hell.’

    Teferi (c78427)

  127. CNN reports that Cadet Bonespurs will finally go to Vietnam after all – to meet his sweetheart Kim!

    Very smart (good genes, good genes) – see, if the preliminary talks fall through, he can get another letter from his doctor and stay home, just like last time!

    Dave (1bb933)

  128. In American politics ca. 2020, the only thing in the middle of the road is yellow lines and dead armadillos…

    The two parties have never been this far apart. There’s a huge vacuum at the center. When it was Clinton vs Bush Sr, the two men could have a civil conversation (and later, did, frequently). Perot, got 19% of the vote attacking the middle and Clinton WON with 43%.

    Between Trump and Harris there is a yawning void. They are incapable of civility towards each other. They both repel a goodly deal of the electorate, and they are so ideologically driven that their program seems to many from another planet entirely.

    There has never been a better time for a centrist candidate. As for the Supreme Court, trading Breyer and Ginsberg for 2 more Kennedies would be a vast improvement, and much better for both sides than what they fear.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  129. Cadet Bonespurs

    Considering how many Americans hid out in Canada, or Oxford, I really don’t see the issue here. The VietNam War was a clusterfrack of Biblical proportions and the people behind it (e.g. McNamera) should have been convicted of war crimes, or treason, or whatever was handy and shot.

    Even Bush Sr, a true war hero, helped his son avoid it. It’s a cheap shot that doesn’t give the shooter much credit.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  130. if you were abandoned by your family and grew up in a forrest and came out wearing a business suit and didn’t exploit your fellow man or government and became a billionaire then claim your a self made man.

    lany (f300f3)

  131. Day old brew; iced coffee. ‘Good to the last drop.’

    Everyone to their own standards, I think.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  132. What I don’t get are those K cup teas. There are, after all, tea bags.

    I use both, but prefer the bags. And not everything comes in K-cups (e.g. Constant Comment), but Red Rose does now. I have to be pretty lazy to use the machine though.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  133. then claim your a self made man.

    So, we define it down to meaninglessness so that rich men’s sons like Trump or Steyer don’t feel snubbed and ne’er-do-wells (like Bernie) don’t have to explain why they never did well. Got it.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  134. I do folgers in a french press. I used to be a coffee snob but can’t afford to be anymore so folgers it is, and it’s not too bad.

    JRH (fe281f)

  135. i also used to work for Starbucks and think Schultz built a hell of a company that treats its employees right, and Democrats are dad blamed idiots.

    JRH (fe281f)

  136. Not the rank and file. The fools that want to be elected.

    JRH (fe281f)

  137. well some of the rank and file ok I’ll shut up now.

    JRH (fe281f)

  138. Between Trump and Harris there is a yawning void. They are incapable of civility towards each other. They both repel a goodly deal of the electorate, and they are so ideologically driven that their program seems to many from another planet entirely.

    And to the supporters of each, the election of the other will be sold as the end of the universe, just like in 2016. Flight 93 is now boarding all rows.

    If Schultz follows the trajectory of most 3rd party candidates, he will never reach viability to win the election, and his support will be strongly influenced by strategic considerations (“…if I vote for Schultz instead of the main party candidate I hate less, the main party candidate I hate more has a better chance of winning…”).

    If he does, by some miracle, ever reach the point of appearing to have a credible shot at winning the electoral college, all bets are off, of course.

    Dave (1bb933)

  139. aphrael-
    right on about roasting your own, been roasting at home for about 20 years.
    Macdonalds used to have the best cup of coffee when they sold Paul Newman beans.
    I enjoy a Ethiopian Yergecheffe mixed with a Sumatra, my version of mocha-java.
    Am also fond of some Cental American beans.
    And no coffee is more overrated than Hawaiian and the Jamaican Blue Mnt.

    mg (8cbc69)

  140. I heard Harris on Maddow and was not that impressed. i find her boring and not all that quick on her feet. I think Biden might be the Dems best chance. Yeah he’s old, but he’s old school, can (maybe) wrest the working class back, is a seasoned campaigner, and not so far left as Warren and company. I know he has #metoo issues but there isn’t a male running who won’t have them imo.

    JRH (fe281f)

  141. I also think Biden has the best chance not to be sliced and diced by Trump, who will destroy most comers. Beto? Warren? no chance.

    JRH (fe281f)

  142. Shocking report reveals that 95% of plastic polluting the world’s oceans comes from just TEN rivers including the Ganges and Niger

    Massive amounts of plastic bits that imperil aquatic life are washing into the oceans and even the most pristine waters.

    But how it all gets there from inland cities has not been fully understood.

    Now a study shows the top 10 rivers – eight of which are in Asia – accounted for 88 to 95 per cent of the total global load because of the mismanagement of waste.

    The team calculated halving plastic pollution in these waterways could potentially reduce the total contribution by all rivers by 45 per cent.“

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4970214/95-plastic-oceans-comes-just-TEN-rivers.html

    harkin (97db13)

  143. Will fiscal responsibility be popular? I would hope so….but I’m skeptical. Elections have grown to become all about what new benefit will come to the middle class…..rather than tough talk about getting our budget in order. The zeitgeist drives this…..and pollsters and strategists understand this. If talk of raising the social security eligibility age, cutting military bases, and reducing civilian government workers was popular…you sure would of seen it come out of Trump’s mouth. Anyone facing cuts or suffering a negative impact is paraded on TV for maximum political effect….and the extreme wing fans the flame….and the blogs fill with righteous indignation. We have to fix how we do politics before a rational centrist has a shot. This is part of the problem with the age of Trump and, to a lesser extent, with Obama. There is no good will….and no interest in compromise….and government needs both of those…

    AJ_Liberty (165d19)

  144. 143… “you sure would of wood have seen it come out of Trump’s mouth.”

    Minor corrections above…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  145. The right would be flaming govt cutbacks in what universe, now we saw how the house reacted to modest discretionary increases.

    Biden presided over 1 trillion in unreviewed stimulus which looked like a ponzu scheme, he challenged mccryatals counterinsurgency strategy, playing shotgun in Afghanistan, his coked up son was in the bucket of a Russian controlled oil company.

    Narciso (aacfac)

  146. 144… “you sure would of wood have seen it come out of Trump’s mouth.”

    Minor corrections above…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  147. For those who think that Trump is a shoo-in in 2020, note that the Democrats are so sure he isn’t that they’ll have 20 candidates before long. They see a repeat of 2008.

    Cory Booker just threw his Amprenavir into the ring.

    nk (dbc370)

  148. If he does, by some miracle, ever reach the point of appearing to have a credible shot at winning the electoral college, all bets are off, of course.

    In 1992, Perot led the race in late spring. Then he dropped out, claiming a conspiracy was targeting his daughter’s wedding, and re-entered a couple months later and STILL got 19% of the vote.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  149. I also think Biden has the best chance not to be sliced and diced by Trump

    If the Dems go with Biden vs Trump, there is no room for Schultz. I think Biden wins that; Trump’s negatives are legion and the media will make Biden look a safe choice.

    But they won’t run Biden if the Dem primaries have anything to say about it. They’re just lucky AOC isn’t old enough to run. The Democrat base is far more radicalized than they were in 2016 with Bernie, and they want someone FAR to the left of Hillary.

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  150. Anyone who gets to ask questions of Dems should ask this, in hopes of starting a “I’m crazier” contest:

    “What should be the top income tax rate?”

    Kevin M (21ca15)

  151. From the cell phone ad to the end of the story, a sample of Democratana. https://abcnews.go.com/beta-story-container/US/jersey-man-caught-camera-faking-slip-fall-filing/story?id=60772406

    nk (dbc370)

  152. I heard Booker, Harris and Warren formed a trio. Maybe that guy in Jersey could join and make it a quartet.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgAkGWuyIHo

    JRH (fe281f)

  153. i hadn’t heard about this

    the dirty chinesers have a starbucks competitor

    The news comes a few weeks after it was reported that Luckin plans to open 2,500 new locations in China this year to overtake Starbucks in the country. Luckin Chief Marketing Officer Yang Fei said at a presentation in Beijing, according to a past Reuters report, “What we want at the moment is scale and speed.” Amid its strategy for quick expansion, the retailer has homed in on delivery, discounts and technology.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  154. Dave, at 124: as a gay man with family in Texas who I like to visit from time to time, _Lawrence_ was pretty important to me.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  155. point taken

    Dave (1bb933)

  156. Anyone who gets to ask questions of Dems should ask this, in hopes of starting a “I’m crazier” contest:

    “What should be the top income tax rate?”

    Heh. Better be ready with the follow-up:

    “How will ‘their fair share’ be determined?”

    Dave (1bb933)

  157. 138, Schultz, or many third party candidates, easily could wind up polling second in California,
    and thus have a real chance of carrying the state. But there’s have to be something important to distinguish him from the Democrat – not that “Medicare for All” costs too much. That is not the problem with it, and is he saying many people shouldn’t get health care?

    I doubtHoward Schultz even realizes what is wrong with some of the ZDem Party sacred cows. He’s got to find something seriously wrong with the Democratic platform or likely actions of the candidate.

    Sammy Finkelman (b0ece0)

  158. 124. A third party candidate needs intellectual coherence, but I don’t see it in anyone mentioned so far.

    Maybe he could come out against campaign finance laws as they are.

    Sammy Finkelman (b0ece0)

  159. I’ve heard tell that if you put a frog in boiling water he will jump out, but if you put him in tepid water and bring it to a boil slowly he will stay in until he’s cooked.

    nk (dbc370)

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