Patterico's Pontifications

1/9/2019

Why This Wall Fight Now? Good Question!

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:52 am



From Matt Walsh:

As a reminder: a year ago, Schumer and Trump were discussing a deal for $25 billion, not $5 billion. Negotiations blew up with a lot of finger-pointing in the aftermath:

During the Friday meeting, Trump and Schumer agreed that most of the $25 billion would be appropriated at the start, with more doled out in the future, according to a person familiar with the meeting who spoke on the condition of anonymity to talk frankly about the exchange.

Aides to Schumer would not comment on the exact price tag.

Over the weekend, Schumer described the meeting several times in public remarks, saying that Trump “picked a number for the wall, and I accepted it.” At other points Schumer said he “reluctantly” agreed to discuss constructing a wall — but never revealed the sum.

But Office of Management and Budget Director Mick Mulvaney said: “Once Schumer started talking about the president backing away from the deal that never existed, he said he offered the president everything on the wall and the military. That just wasn’t true. . . . The president knew Schumer was mistreating him.”

Matt House, a spokesman for Schumer, said Mulvaney “once again isn’t telling the truth. Senator Schumer offered the president everything he asked for on the border and more than he asked for on defense.”

One major sticking point was Stephen Miller’s insistence on chain migration being part of any compromise:

At the White House, the administration said Tuesday that it expects Congress to move beyond a bipartisan deal to protect the undocumented immigrants that the president rejected during a vulgar exchange with lawmakers nearly two weeks ago.

“It’s totally unacceptable to the president and should be declared dead on arrival,” press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders said during a White House news briefing of a plan being crafted by Sens. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.) and Richard J. Durbin (D-Ill.).

She said their plan, not yet written into formal legislation, would not sufficiently secure the border and would increase legal family-based immigration, a practice that conservatives are hoping to curb to dissuade migrants from entering the country.

You don’t hear much about that these days. One gets the sense that if Schumer offered the same deal today — $25 billion for legislative DACA — Trump would jump at it.

Instead, Mr. Art of the Deal let the moment pass. And here we are, with Democrats in control of the House, in a far worse negotiating position.

So he chooses to make a stand now?

Remember when Republicans passed legislation to repeal ObamaCare when Obama was in office, he refused to pass the same legislation when Trump was in office?

This is what Republicans do. They fake support for things. That’s what this shutdown is about. Convincing you they care, when they don’t.

[Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.]

225 Responses to “Why This Wall Fight Now? Good Question!”

  1. It’s what happens when a president is a glandular instead of strategic thinker. Had he budged on DACA and a couple of other things, he would’ve had his wall.

    Paul Montagu (ebcdfb)

  2. with Mitt Romney’s favorite friday night playtoy Paul Ryan as speaker there was never no sense in pursuing a wall

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  3. And here we go again. Thanks for trying, Patterico.

    Simon Jester (3575b9)

  4. Who’ll mow the grass at the country clubs, eh? Or bus the tables? You people! You just look after your own interests. You don’t know what it’s like to ask for a Bombay Sapphire martini at the 19th hole and be told they only have Gordon’s.

    nk (dbc370)

  5. the better question what never really got asked is why did slicked-up-and-ready baby boy Paul Ryan refuse to step down as speaker even after announcing his retirement

    this was unprecedented lame duckery in the history of the whole entire national country of America

    what was so important that he didn’t step aside

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  6. Give it a rest, happyfeet.
    — A good tactic is one your people enjoy.
    — When a tactic drags on too long it becomes a drags.
    Rules to comment by.

    nk (dbc370)

  7. How do we know the votes for a reconciliation “wall” bill were even there? 51 Republicans included Flake, McCain, etc., plus several other (R-Chamber of Commerce) types. Its an entirely open question what would have happened.

    Nor do we know what Trump passed up vis-a-vis Schumer. Nobody says that they were the unreasonable one after a failed negotiation.

    Trump would have happily signed the 2015 health care legislation, incidentally.

    bates (dddb3b)

  8. becomes a drags

    nk (dbc370)

  9. nonono Mr. nk both of my comments are 100% on point and they are also very cogent

    I’m awesome!

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  10. Never did Ryan work for the American People he worked for Donohue and the CoC. These ingrates would rather see Trump dead than secure our borders.

    mg (8cbc69)

  11. This is not just what Republicans do…it is what every politician does, with very few exceptions. A large part of the Republicans’ problem is that decades of abuse from The Democrats and the Media (but I repeat myself) have trained them to worry about losing the support of people who are’t going to support them anyway. They don’t ACTUALLY want to repeal Obamacareless because that might make somebody upset with them. Never mind that the people who support Obamacareless would mostly rather eat ground glass than vote Republican.

    Trump seems to have this LESS than most politicians. Maybe not a lot less, buy I’ll take what we have. You work with the clay you’ve got, not the gold you want. We weren’t offered a choice between Trump and some shining Libertarian Statesman. We were offered a choice, first, between Trump and a bunch of Republicans who apparently couldn’t shrug off the MSM, and then between Trump and a leather-lunged, criminal bitch whose ostentatious stupidity alone disqualified her.

    Seriously; You can think of your opponent’s supporters as a ‘basket of deplorables’ . There may well be an argument for the thought. But you don’t friggin’ SAY it where it will get out and inspire every single person who even THOUGHT about voting for Trump to drag themselves to the polls. You don’t DO that…unless you’re an idiot.

    C. S. P. Schofield (531c3d)

  12. “Had he budged on DACA and a couple of other things, he would’ve had his wall.”
    Paul Montagu (ebcdfb) — 1/9/2019 @ 8:01 am

    To believe this is to go on record believing Schumer and his spokeshole. There was never any deal last year, nor was there ever going to be.

    Munroe (fc4a14)

  13. I just listened to California congressman Tom McKlintock say 4,000 Americans had been murdered by illegal aliens and another 100,000 subjected to violent assaults by same.

    And the adverse impact to our schools, healthcare and social services is not negligible.

    I’d like to see a wall built and other safeguards/tools be implemented or strengthened, the sooner the better.

    Colonel Haiku (3116bd)

  14. I like Tom McClintock but would like to see where he’s getting his numbers from.-

    Dana (023079)

  15. These ingrates fail to count the drug deaths due to drugs coming across the border as murder.

    mg (8cbc69)

  16. Trump doesn’t want a wall. He wants ‘the wall’ to still be an issue he can campaign on again.

    Bob (f2f128)

  17. Trump doesn’t want a wall. He wants ‘the wall’ to still be an issue he can campaign on again.

    no he wants a wall

    he did a whole speech on it last night

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  18. I wonder what the death count needs to be for these imbeciles on the left to cave?

    mg (8cbc69)

  19. Impeach the mother_____! If we’re going to have an incompetent in the Oval Office, let’s at least have one who does not turn our stomachs.

    nk (dbc370)

  20. Trump doesn’t want a wall. He wants ‘the wall’ to still be an issue he can campaign on again.

    I agree. He wants his base fired up about something, anything, so they’ll come out and vote. Not happy and content with the way things are because then they’ll stay home.

    nk (dbc370)

  21. If the wall doesn’t get built Trump has no chance in 2020. Thats why the left and the no trumper cohorts are in on it together.

    mg (8cbc69)

  22. Voting matters? Not in this sh!thole country.

    mg (8cbc69)

  23. Both parties want this issue.

    Colonel Haiku (3116bd)

  24. If the wall doesn’t get built Trump has no chance in 2020. Thats why the left and the no trumper cohorts are in on it together.

    You know that because you are an intelligent and perspicacious person, mg, but does Trump know it?

    nk (dbc370)

  25. 17. A whole speech? I listened, and I thought it was only about 3/4 of a speech. Anyone with half a brain knows you can’t get anything done in DC without multiple whole speeches.

    Gryph (08c844)

  26. 21. Very cute. I’d like to see the wall built on principle. And I will not be voting for Trump in 2020 whether it gets built or not. Thank you, please pull ahead.

    Gryph (08c844)

  27. 14… no context/timeframe given, but I suspect it is a yearly average based on extrapolation of GAO numbers

    Colonel Haiku (3116bd)

  28. The republicans are about to fold. Trump was done when he didn’t shut the government down earlier to stop the national deficit from rising. The republican party and its sheep have ruined the country forever. My goal is to finish fencing all my properties, take down the signs that say you may hunt with permission and put up KEEP OUT and NO TRESPASSING signs. In Minnegoshoo I might not even own my land anymore.

    mg (8cbc69)

  29. Excellent point. If the wall was so crucial, Trump should have pushed it when he had his own party control Congress. Not necessarily through a compromise with Schumer and Pelosi, but go on TV and give the same speech he gave last night, only two years ago.

    Bored Lawyer (998177)

  30. i listened too and it was so good

    even famous lawyer Mr. Mirengoff says so

    this is an epochal shift in national security to where we’ll finally not have terrorists and head lice streaming over the border like a macabre epidemic of death and nits

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  31. Really really interesting to hear Trump *not* say “May God Bless America” or some variant last night. As a Christian who hates pandering politicians, I think this is a good thing. There is a part of me that would really like to like Trump.

    JRH (fe281f)

  32. The wall is just one part of the equation as Stephen Miller made clear with trying to limit chain migration.

    Telling illegal aliens they are breaking the law and are not welcome is the point. California and New York just did the opposite and are in rebellion. They need to be deal with accordingly.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  33. DEMOCRATS 2020: “We’re Wrinkled We’re White and We’re Wrong”

    Colonel Haiku (3116bd)

  34. Patterico – You omit the fact that Schumer withdrew his offer after getting hard flak from his left on DACA/Dreamers. The hard left were adamant that all the “Dreamers” be included in the deal, not just the ones who qualified for DACA status. They also don’t like the idea of reducing the loopholes in legal immigration that bring in low-income, less educated Hispanic minorities that tend to vote Democratic.

    CygnusAnalogMan (9c66ec)

  35. 29… Better late than never.

    Colonel Haiku (3116bd)

  36. @ Bored Lawyer – that was part of the problem – the Republicans taking their marching orders from the CoC didn’t want a wall because it would upset their friends on K Street and the media.

    CygnusAnalogMan (9c66ec)

  37. SACRAMENTO (CBSLA/AP) – California’s new governor is promising the most populous state will be a “sanctuary to all who seek it” in a direct affront to President Donald Trump’s immigration policies…….

    …..Even as he needled Trump, Newsom offered an overture to voters in rural California, millions of whom voted for Trump and John Cox, Newsom’s Republican rival in November. “I recognize that many in our rural communities believe that Sacramento doesn’t care about them — doesn’t even really see them,” he said. “I see you. I care about you. And I will represent you with pride.”

    https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2019/01/07/gavin-newsom-california-governor-2/

    He actually said both those things at the same time.

    Yeah, represent them with pride while he stabs them in the back……he sees their bank accounts and that’s about it.

    harkin (fd4b68)

  38. You can choose to take drugs, you can’t choose a drunk on the road coming head-on or plain sneak attack or armed robbery gone wrong.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  39. Ryan could not be bothered I guess like with Gowdy who will collect his check from Nelson munns, to either pass the repeal or enforce the law.

    Narciso (97514a)

  40. I like Tom McClintock but would like to see where he’s getting his numbers from.-

    Dana (023079) — 1/9/2019 @ 8:30 am

    Have contrary numbers been presented? If so, by whom and where did they get their numbers from?

    To be clear I am not in blind allegiance to McClintock and his numbers, I’m just curious if anyone is proving him wrong. You would think this data would be finite.

    BuDuh (a3ca36)

  41. Wall or fence your property. What will stop them from migrating on your bought and paid for land? Trump and congress… lmmfao.

    mg (8cbc69)

  42. that was part of the problem – the Republicans taking their marching orders from the CoC didn’t want a wall because it would upset their friends on K Street and the media

    That is true of some but not all Republicans. But, more importantly, if you cannot get a wall through when the Republicans control Congress, how in the world could it happen when the Dems control the House?

    Point is, Trump should have given this speech two years ago, and pushed the public and his party to do it. He didn’t, and that is a strategic failure.

    Bored Lawyer (998177)

  43. 1 little strand of electric fence can put a bull on its knees.

    mg (8cbc69)

  44. two years ago?

    cowardly liar John McCain would’ve never voted for a wall he would have filibustered like the traitorous weak sister he always was

    he’d already lied about supporting the wall many times!

    he was a liar and a traitorous coward, you see, and he wasn’t about to do *anything* that would redound to the benefit of America’s national security

    so President Trump wisely understood that he had to pick his battles

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  45. Why now? Two things:

    1) Schumer was getting absolutely excoriated by the left of even daring passing something that Trump would claim credit. Did we all forget that he pulled his support of that bill in the last second? I think that happened when everyone realized that Trump/MAGA peeps would take credit for fixing DACA…

    2) Trump is convinced that this is his “Read my lips…” thing… it’s either this, or he won’t have a chance at his re-election.

    whembly (b9d411)

  46. rbg not showing up for work is another case of – Don’t you know who I am?
    pathetic

    mg (8cbc69)

  47. “Point is, Trump should have given this speech two years ago, and pushed the public and his party to do it. He didn’t, and that is a strategic failure.”

    You’re right. It’s the difference between leadership and brinksmanship. Same thing with Healthcare. He didn’t have a vision or a plan on healthcare, or any will or inclination to come up with one. Between you me and the fencepost, I don’t think he cares about a wall either, or immigration. But his base does, and he doesn’t want to lose their adulation, which he truly cares about.

    JRH (fe281f)

  48. That might have been useful down in New Orleans, mg. A large contingent from here may still be basking in victory.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  49. Beautiful looking steer.

    mg (8cbc69)

  50. 49… say… didn’t Bob Seger write a song about that?

    Colonel Haiku (3116bd)

  51. new year new wall new you

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  52. @51. New world order: done more in two years than one could have dreamed for in forty. Love that Trump, Mr. Feet! But President Winfrey will bring us together.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  53. Just keep soon to be Madame President away from the backstage spread, DCSCA, or else: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bmDLT6tAWc

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  54. The Democrats are less likely to make a deal now, too, because their base is *really* strongly opposed to a wall, and that opposition gets stronger the more the media focus on the wall. It’s one thing for the Democrats to agree to wall funding in exchange for DACA when it’s done kinda quietlty in the background, it’s another entirely to do it when it’s in the middle of a media circus.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  55. To believe this is to go on record believing Schumer and his spokeshole.

    And Trump was for DACA before he was against it. You could say that Schumer was only trying to help Trump keep his word.

    Paul Montagu (ebcdfb)

  56. OK, I’ll bite. Why is Trump’s negotiating position poor? It’s Democrat oxen being gored by this shutdown; why should he care?

    Kevin M (cb624b)

  57. aphrael (#55):

    Yes, but it’s the federal workers who are biting the bullet for this posturing. It’s not that the base is against the wall, it’s that the base is against Trump. He could offer a program to cure AIDS and they’d fight it.

    The image I see is that the Democrats are willing to sacrifice loyal constituents to ensure continued illegal immigration. I can’t see the trade unions being happy either.

    How do you spin this so it’s not about Trump and not about illegal immigration?

    Kevin M (cb624b)

  58. Kevin M – this is because you don’t have close enough ties to Democrats to understand the issue as we see it. :)

    From the perspective of the Democratic base, the wall is nothing more than a monument to Trump, which isn’t needed to solve the problem of illegal immigration, is incapable of solving the problem of illegal immigration, and has been rhetorically justified by unreasonable fear mongering that seems designed to cast collective blame on an entire ethnic group for the behavior of some. Any Democrat who is *seen* to cave on this issue will be viewed as an establishment sellout by the activists, will face a primary challenge from the left, and may see large numbers of voters *sit out* the next election they’re running in, in response.

    Pelosi wouldn’t lose her job if she caved. TJ Cox *would* … and Pelosi’s a smart enough politician to know that, so she’s not going to cave.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  59. Trump should care because the majority of the public isn’t with him on the issue and blames him for the shutdown; over time, it’s going to chew up his remaining political capital. But more to the point, over time, the continued shutdown is going to hurt his allies in Congress.

    I continue to think the most likely outcome — not a more-likely-than-not, just a more-likely-than-any-single-other-outcome — is that this drags on for months and eventually both houses pass a bill that looks an awful lot like what the Senate passed in December, and then Trump either signs it or it’s passed over his veto.

    But it’ll take months to get there.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  60. republicans are gutless saps and are well on the way to extinction

    mg (8cbc69)

  61. 59… sounds like it’s time for some leadership, instead of excusing and abetting the rabble.

    Colonel Haiku (3116bd)

  62. Aphrael makes a good pragmatic point, but jeez what a mess.

    Trump’s done well with media manipulation, and I think he preserved this issue instead of solving it. All those times Ted Cruz said Trump couldn’t be trusted on his signature promises (balanced budget, ending Obamacare, wall, ending ISIS) we saw how clumsily Trump gas lighted us with “lyin’ ted”. Now we’re at ‘better late than never’ when late means never, and a couple of years ago a wall was a lot more realistic. I agree a wall doesn’t solve all of the problem, but Trump was elected on that and should have delivered on his promises by having an honest, realistic plan when he made his promises.

    If Trump wants to make the shutdown work, he needs to start firing people in these departments and agencies, and demand a balanced budget. Start renting out the offices of the USGS and the EPA to H&R Block and GEICO. What’s the point of a guy like Trump if he can’t fire thousands of people? I do feel terrible for those employees, but if we’re going to ever get the budget balanced, we need to shrink and eliminate most departments and agencies. Make a display of that every day, and the wall becomes a bit more realistic.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  63. Colonel Haiku — funny, from our side, it looks like *Trump* who is *inflaming* the rabble, in pursuit of an irrational and unnecessary policy the majority of the country doesn’t want.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  64. Another thought: all those closed parks and monuments, services like TSA, could be contracted out. Let some entrepreneurs handle these tasks. The federal involvement could be 1% of the size it is today if it were quality control. See of those restrooms are working. See if you can smuggle a thing on a plane. But let the actual labor force be private. Shutdowns seem to happen all the time so why is that our plan A for all these services?

    Dustin (6d7686)

  65. Yes yes the wall’s gonna help us do more with less, and going forward we’ll be able to streamline and optimize all of the relevant processes. This is why it’s such a great policy, and certainly we can all join in a round of applause for President Trump and the initiative he’s taken on this.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  66. That’s an interesting perspective Patterico.

    But I think Ezra Klein has a point too (from a tweet 01/08/18 yesterday)

    If Donald Trump wanted the wall, he’d have negotiated away something of value to get it. Or at least tried to do so.

    He doesn’t want the wall. He wants the fight over the wall. He wants to be seen going to war over the wall. That’s what tonight is about.

    This is all about that base, that base.

    Tillman (61f3c8)

  67. If Trump wants to make the shutdown work, he needs to start firing people in these departments and agencies, and demand a balanced budget. Start renting out the offices of the USGS and the EPA to H&R Block and GEICO. What’s the point of a guy like Trump if he can’t fire thousands of people? I do feel terrible for those employees, but if we’re going to ever get the budget balanced, we need to shrink and eliminate most departments and agencies. Make a display of that every day, and the wall becomes a bit more realistic.
    Thank You, Dustin.
    Thumbs up.

    mg (8cbc69)

  68. 68. You speak as if the shutdown is a tool that Trump can use if he’s savvy enough, instead of a rather blatant failure of Trump’s dealmaking skills, which is what it really is.

    Gryph (08c844)

  69. 64… yes, aphrael, that’s certainly the way the Democrat operatives with bylines, IOW the Media, are framing this. So you are all on the same page.

    Colonel Haiku (3116bd)

  70. Has anyone seen numbers on the federal government employee headcount reduction for the last two years?

    Colonel Haiku (3116bd)

  71. JuiceBox Mafia for the loss!

    Colonel Haiku (3116bd)

  72. But think about it, there is no such thing as H&R Block or its more rapacious and unscrupulus competitor Jackson Hewitt if not for our overcomplicated and over-progressive (still) tax code.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  73. @aphrael,

    The Democrats are less likely to make a deal now, too, because their base is *really* strongly opposed to a wall, and that opposition gets stronger the more the media focus on the wall.

    AOC Made it pretty clear in her interview that she and her wing of the Democratic Party want no borders, but open ones instead. What will be interesting to see us how Pelosi handles these renegades. Pelosi knows there can’t be open borders, even Schumer knows that, but the party is now so solidly divided between the old school Dems and uber-progressives, that something’s got to give.

    What gets lost in all the noise on the right and the left is the fact that a majority of people on the border want some kind of wall and better border security. It’s grossly unfair to make determinations of pros and cons, and identifying people for and against a wall from Washington or any other part of the country that’s not immediately and directly impacted by lax borders. But of course that doesn’t play to the media well

    Dana (023079)

  74. Of course opposition to a wall get stronger the more the media focuses on it. One just has to look at *how* the media focuses on it, and *how* the media frames the issue to know that. That the media has not heavily influenced Democrats and open borders faction, is unquestionable. That Trump waited too long to confront this due to a lack of will, knowledge, and inability to fully grasp what he was dealing with, also isn’t surprising. Also, I think that he believed the “best people“ that he hired would do the heavy lifting for him, and satisfy his base as a result. I think he thought all he needed to do was take the applause for meeting the goal of an important policy plank. Unfortunately, he didn’t seem to realize a presidents role in this, especially with a Congress seemingly unable and unwilling to impact much change. I think he’s probably annoyed that he has to be so involved, and that others haven’t nearly paved the way for him, and I also don’t think his is as fully committed to border security as he pretends to be. This is all a result of making big promises to his grab his base in 2016, and trying to keep that base intact for 2020. Without success with a wall, he loses his base. And there goes 2020.

    Dana (023079)

  75. Dana, don’t try to say that Democrats are for open borders. AOC is is very far left, representing a deep blue district, and most Democrats do not agree with all her views, including border security (assuming that she is indeed for completely open borders).

    Tillman (61f3c8)

  76. Never too late to do the right thing

    john morrissey (df7604)

  77. Tantrum Trump storms out of meeting when denied mrican funds to pay for the wall.

    Here’s the deal, Captain: Mexico pays for the wall.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  78. ^ American.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  79. @75. Nonsense. Nice try but don’t blame “media” for focus on a ‘wall’- blame our Captain. It’s been his brain-child, his chant, his rally cry for several years– and MEXICO is going to pay for it.

    Not American taxpayers.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  80. President Trump’s about so much more than just border security he does good prosperity too and he’s extricating our hapless tatters from the humiliating Bush wars.

    All in all he’s just really great.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  81. #44 – This 2010 video campaign ad is all that you have to see to know about John McCain. GLZ.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0lwusMxiHc

    Gary L. Zerman (ab669e)

  82. he’s just a loathsome and disgusting human being

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  83. Amen to privatizing the TSA. Lame, rude, ineffective, loutish.

    JRH (fe281f)

  84. @63. Fine. Start w/DoD.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  85. #76 Dana, don’t try to say that Democrats are for open borders. AOC is is very far left, representing a deep blue district, and most Democrats do not agree with all her views, including border security (assuming that she is indeed for completely open borders).

    Tillman (61f3c8) — 1/9/2019 @ 12:37 pm

    If that were true, then it wouldn’t be an issue for Democrats to pass something for wall.

    We’re witnessing raw politics here… and it’s really which side blinks.

    …and it might be the House democrats because I’m sure they’re anxious to work on other things now…

    whembly (b9d411)

  86. whembly, the Democrats don’t think that a wall is a good idea. A wall is not the only solution.

    Tillman (61f3c8)

  87. Amen to privatizing the TSA. Lame, rude, ineffective, loutish.

    another lovely aspect of the filthy Bush family legacy

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  88. @63. Fine. Start w/DoD.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 1/9/2019 @ 1:07 pm

    I see North Korea, Iran, China, and Russia seem more of a threat than they were a few years ago. Defense is a necessary thing our government needs to provide. It often costs much more to get defense back in shape than to be prepared in advance, which can actually prevent conflict.

    Therefore, the place to start is all those agencies that aren’t necessary things for our government to provide. Let’s start there. I don’t disagree that there’s waste in the military too, but it’s a poor place to start.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  89. There haven’t been nearly enough conservatives demanding Trump explain why he waited for two years, until Democrats controlled the house, to take this stand about the wall. Nice speech last night. He could have given it a year ago. Why didn’t he?

    That’s not a very telling question.

    The short answer is because he’s stupid and ignorant, of course (a trait he shares with most politicians)

    The long answer is:

    First, he waited some time because he waits for everything – firing FBI Director Comey, tearing up the Iran deal, moving the U.,S. Embassy in Israel to Jerusalem, pulling out of Afghanistan and Syria, even cancelling the Paris climate agreement, which he didn’t do till May, 2017

    Second, it took till now for people at the Department of Homeland Security to propagandize him. he’s willingly accepts it but still he’s being propagandized. I think Trump actually believes a lot of the nonsense he cites and falls prey to fallacies in fact and in ethics. He doesn’t know that many of his statements about immigration are glaringly false. Not that anybody in washington really tries to correct him.

    Third, he tried other things and it only proved that border control is broken.

    It maybe has to be broken, in the nature of things, but it is broken, and a “wall” won’t fix it. (Trump actually knows that, and wants more than a wall.)

    There is now a situation where many people have to be let into the country. Not a big problem, but a problem if you want everything legislated by Congress to always prevail. A problem maybe if you area a bureaucrat with that sort of a job, or a union that wants to lobby for more members.

    People can cross the border, willingly surrender, and ask for asylum and as Trump said:

    We are out of space to hold them, and we have no way to promptly return them back home to their country.

    This is one of his truer statements in his speech. All true, if you leave out the preceding sentence, which was:

    Every day, Customs and Border Protection agents encounter thousands of illegal immigrants trying to enter our country

    Thousands per day?

    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/01/08/border-apprehensions-of-migrant-families-have-risen-substantially-so-far-in-2018/

    Maybe one thousand. Not two.

    And then what he said about fentanyl coming in…. through Mexico? I thought it ws delivered by mail from China. Heroin is not fentanyl.

    And by the way, the growing death rate from opioids happened because smuggling drugs from Mexico became harder – and fentanyl is more dangerous, especially as the exact chenmical keeps on changing, but it is more commpact. Also of course, because the supply of legal and safe prescription opioids has been cut off. Or people go to rehab and get detoxified and then don’t know their fatal dose.

    Anyway, the Catch-22 situation with regard to people crossing the border didn’t become extremely clear to Trump until recently. The wall, Trump apparently thinks, will prevent people from corssing the border in the first place (he also doesn’t want to allow people to cross at legal prots of entry and ask for asylum there.)

    Fourth, the change in control did motivate him – he was losing leverage, and he shut down the government BEFORE control of the House changed.

    The only thing is, he couldn’t force Congess to do what he wanted even before the change in control – the House did what he wanted but he was stymied in the Senate.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  90. But Trump…perhaps not he directly…need to go from bottom up on the Dem side.

    Rather than deal with Pelosi/Schumer head to head – no not the AOCs and the Star Wars Cantina crowd, but the new Pennsy gerrymanders, some of the newly elected suburban/exurban upstarts etc and just promising to give them any ish they want in return for his wall. To me, they hold the power, not Chucksy, because they can go 21st Century dixiecrat and switch to either the Rs or find the remaining RINOs get some other Rs and form the largest plural party. They also have a longer window to be seen as viable “higher office” candidates and thus a longer window to make Dem partisans forgot why exactly they have new shiny things in their district.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  91. What’s the point of a guy like Trump if he can’t fire thousands of people? I do feel terrible for those employees, but if we’re going to ever get the budget balanced, we need to shrink and eliminate most departments and agencies.

    If every cent of non-defense discretionary spending was cut, it wouldn’t balance the budget.

    Today non-defense discretionary spending is 1.5% of GDP LESS than the last year we had a balanced budget. The problem is that entitlements eat up over 4% MORE.

    To paraphrase Jimmy Carville, “It’s the entitlements, stupid.”

    (Not calling Dustin stupid, although his suggestion is very misguided)

    Dave (1bb933)

  92. Dustin @89. The Defense Department is not affected by the shutdown, because that was one of the 6 departments that were fully funded before the shutdown.

    The only kind of military people affected are in the Coast Guard, because they are not in the Department of Defense, but in Homeland Security, and first they heard they’d get their next paycheck after December 21, and then they heard they wouldn’t – because the December 28 paychecks went out but the January 11 won’t, but Coast Guard people get paid on the first. But then Trump told people to solve it and they juggled things around somehow and they got their January 1 paychecks.

    But now the SEC, the FTC and other things like that are going on hiatus. The State Department is affected but the shutdown but they are probably mostly considered essential except maybe for people who issue new passports.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  93. The short answer is because he’s stupid and ignorant, of course (a trait he shares with most politicians)

    Another way of looking at this is that he’s very smart and capable, and he’s succeeded in elevating the subject of border security to the very apex of the American political discussion.

    This would never have happened if we’d elected a coward like John McCain or an amoral satanic abomination like Mhitt Rhomney.

    Sometimes it takes a president. But sometimes it takes President Donald Trump.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  94. All that has to happen to end the shutdown is for Republicans to be prepared to override Trump vetoes.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  95. “whembly, the Democrats don’t think that a wall is a good idea. A wall is not the only solution.”

    I suspect there’s no one here who contends that it is the only solution. But it is part of the solution.

    Democrats want to have as many immigrants – especially those from south of the border – as they can get admitted to the country. They realize that once in, there’s no way to prevent non-citizens from voting in the most populated states, given what they’ve done with motor-voter laws, etc. there’s no follow-up.

    Immigrants from Eastern Europe who’ve had the experience of living under Socialism and want nothing to do with it will never be the focus of Leftwing largesse.

    Colonel Haiku (3116bd)

  96. whembly, the Democrats don’t think that a wall is a good idea. A wall is not the only solution.

    Tillman (61f3c8) — 1/9/2019 @ 1:09 pm

    Tillman… The wall wasn’t the only thing the Trump administration has asked for… in addition to 234 miles of physical barrier, they’ve asked for:
    -75 additional immigration judges and support staff to reduce the immigration backlog,

    -750 additional Border Patrol agents,

    -2,000 additional law enforcement personnel and support staff to address gang violence, smuggling, trafficking, and the spread of drugs,

    -52,000 detention beds,

    -$800 million to address urgent humanitarian needs,

    -$675 million for “Non-Intrusive Inspection (NII) technology at inbound lanes at U.S. Southwest Border Land Ports of Entry” to “allow CBP to deter and detect more contraband, including narcotics, weapons, and other materials that pose nuclear and radiological threats”

    -statutory changes to permit in-country processing capacities for asylum processing

    Saying it’s just a “wall” is purposely being obtuse about this situation.

    whembly (b9d411)

  97. But Sammy, there’s less of that type of Repub in the chamber nowadays, hence I think its easier that Trump-friendly forces try to convince/entice/buy off the more in-danger 1/2 of the new Dems, peel off much of the CBC, whatever it takes.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  98. The wall is the primary issue in contention. I’m pretty certain that the Democrats would give him the additional judges, the additional border patrol agents, the money for humanitarian needs, and the money for the non-intrusive inspection tech pretty much in exchange for nothing. They’d demand something in exchange for the law enforcement personnel, but Trump could get that.

    that leaves the wall, the in-country processing capacity for asylum processing, and the detention beds. democrats won’t cave on the wall or the detention beds.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  99. @89. On the contrary; it’s by far the richest place to start.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  100. “Saying it’s just a “wall” is purposely being obtuse about this situation.”

    Do you think Trump would agree to all of the above except the wall?

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  101. The Dems can ratchet it up to everything but the wall, but that has to get past the radicals, this isnt Nancy or Chuck themselves talking, its Nancy and Chuck initimated by the Star Wars Cantina group. Steny Hoyer had to put Luis G in his place a few times back in the 2006-2010 era, you need more of that.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  102. intimidated

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  103. The GOP’s perennial inability to grasp anything important to American voters (student loans for micro-aggression studies, loss of culture, proliferating debt, campus attacks on free speech) is no surprise. Ryan had no clue. So of course, voters look to the one man who seems to get it.

    Meanwhile, in the state that does not need a wall, 44% of Californians speak a language other than English at home. California has a very high percentage of America’s poor, and the voters have become a docile pool of high tax, insane project voters (“lets build a $63 billion train!”). The GOP in Calif is for all purposes, extinct. Crimes are routinely committed by illegals who were previously deported more than once.

    But hey-we don’t need a wall.

    Harcourt Fenton Mudd (5e0a82)

  104. “Saying it’s just a “wall” is purposely being obtuse about this situation.”

    Do you think Trump would agree to all of the above except the wall?

    Davethulhu (fab944) — 1/9/2019 @ 1:38 pm

    No… he want’s his wall and is willing to give something else to Dems.

    Except, the Dems don’t want to facilitate a successful Trump campaign promise.

    We have a Mexican Standoff here…

    whembly (b9d411)

  105. whembly (b9d411) — 1/9/2019 @ 1:31 pm

    Of course the whole argument is about the wall. So you’re the one being obtuse.

    Tillman (61f3c8)

  106. whembly (b9d411) — 1/9/2019 @ 1:31 pm

    Of course the whole argument is about the wall. So you’re the one being obtuse.

    Tillman (61f3c8) — 1/9/2019 @ 1:57 pm

    O.o

    You said:

    whembly, the Democrats don’t think that a wall is a good idea. A wall is not the only solution.

    Tillman (61f3c8) — 1/9/2019 @ 1:09 pm

    I’m just responding to your point here…

    whembly (b9d411)

  107. @97. The wall? So far he is only insisting American taxpayers fund it– and actually, furloughed U.S. gov’t employees and contract workers are ‘paying for it’ the hard way already. After all, his chant for years was ‘Mexico will pay for the wall.” But a master negotiator known for ‘the art of the deal’ can cut the deck and play this game blindfolded, right?! He said 20 minutes… or is it 45 today. He wouldn’t lie to us, would he?!

    “I will never lie to you.” – Donald Trump, August 18, 2016

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  108. whembly (b9d411) — 1/9/2019 @ 2:01 pm

    You understand that our Russian Poodle goes around talking about the wall as if it is the only point of contention and all that matters to him on this issue. So you’ll forgive me for making it clear that the wall is all he really cares about and our only real issue here.

    Tillman (61f3c8)

  109. @97. The wall? So far he is only insisting American taxpayers fund it– and actually, furloughed U.S. gov’t employees and contract workers are ‘paying for it’ the hard way already. After all, his chant for years was ‘Mexico will pay for the wall.” But a master negotiator known for ‘the art of the deal’ can cut the deck and play this game blindfolded, right?! He said 20 minutes… or is it 45 today. He wouldn’t lie to us, would he?!

    “I will never lie to you.” – Donald Trump, August 18, 2016

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 1/9/2019 @ 2:03 pm

    I knew he was bs’ing us when he’d proclaimed that Mexico would pay for the wall.

    Guess what? He lies.

    Know who else lies? Other politicians.

    That’s not whattaboutism… that’s describing reality.

    whembly (b9d411)

  110. Texas and Florida will be blue in 2020. Its all over for you republicans. I am excited to watch the elite republicans mow the lawn and clean the house.

    mg (8cbc69)

  111. @110. Reality?!?!

    Guess what:

    American taxpayers aren’t going to pay for it.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  112. Chuck S. looks like a full packard brisket.

    mg (8cbc69)

  113. 112. One way or another, I think we will. It gives me no pleasure, but I really think We The People will pay for that wall.

    Gryph (08c844)

  114. I still dont think felons -due to a large PWT/old Cuban contingent plus the more wary red-pilled black-ex-offenders – are a slam dunk for Dems in FL and Trump is revered across groups down there. TX I’d worry about a little more, because of the rhetoric and the damage to NAFTA-enabled commerce.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  115. But maybe the Wall is MasterCard commercial level priceless in the long run.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  116. If every cent of non-defense discretionary spending was cut, it wouldn’t balance the budget.

    Today non-defense discretionary spending is 1.5% of GDP LESS than the last year we had a balanced budget. The problem is that entitlements eat up over 4% MORE.

    To paraphrase Jimmy Carville, “It’s the entitlements, stupid.”

    (Not calling Dustin stupid, although his suggestion is very misguided)

    Dave (1bb933) — 1/9/2019 @ 1:23 pm

    Suppose a family realizes they need to adjust their budget. Mommy tells daddy to stop going to the strip club once a week, and stop eating Taco Bell on his commute home every day. Daddy points out that the total spending on Taco Bell and Chicas Bonitas is only $500 per month, and this is half the cost of their mortgage, and therefore “mommy, i’m not calling you stupid, but this suggestion is misguided.” Mommy might suspect there were a hidden passive aggressive insult in there, and also a hidden agenda as well.

    Daddy wants to see Cinnamon dance again. You want the huge leviathan government. You both fall for the fallacy of zero + zero = zero. These tiny incidents of spending seem like nothing, but add them up and they are enormous.

    non-defense discretionary spending is 1.5% of GDP LESS than the last year we had a balanced budget

    This in particular is such a strained and weird statistic. Who made the 1990s the metric of this particular kind of spending? Who cares if the spending is ‘discretionary?’ Who cares if it’s ‘non-defense’?

    If someone needs the services of the TSA, the USGS, EPA, the D of Edu, and the like, just let a state government or private entity do it. Most of this stuff is unconstitutional anyway, permitted under a dishonest understanding of the commerce clause.

    You also misunderstand the true cost of these agencies. Many of them get in the way, creating lots of work for an endless bureaucracy. But back to my example: mommy and daddy can’t get out of their mortgage easily, even if they did buy a bigger house than they needed. GOP and Democrat cannot reform social security right now, even if they really should. That doesn’t mean that in 20 years we won’t be better off if we cut as much other spending as we can. If you want to fantasize about the idea, let’s give DCSCA his point too. Every penny that’s wasted in the military, in entitlements, and in less useful federal departments should all be cut.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  117. well we could prioritize the budget bills, but if you go after medicare in any significant way even in texas, well you’re likely to get yellow jacket treatment, or worse,

    https://www.steynonline.com/9132/the-real-crisis

    now one of these days they’ll find someone more adept than O’Rourke, since the dem party is almost entirely prog, and you’ll have substantial fire arms restrictions, and similar on grounds of political and religious expression,

    narciso (d1f714)

  118. It’s areral impasse. But the parties are finding out what the other party ereally thinks. Trump walked out of meeting with Pelosi and Schumer saying it was a total waste of time.

    I would think maybe Trump could settle for the election issue, if the Democrats gave it to him. But they’d have to come out foursquare for non-enforcement.

    I mentioned other ways this could be resolved:

    1) The Democrats succeed in carving away things from the shutdown, until there’s nothing left. Possibly with the help of Republicans overriding or threatening to override vetoes.

    2) “Go Fund Me” A new IRS form is created whereby people can dedicate $200 or so of their tax to Trump’s proposals.

    Or there’s Trump using a declaration of emergency – which could go into court. The 1976 law provides for a vote in Congress but requires two thirds to reverse. It’s probably entirely unconstitutional.

    It won’t end with the Democrats caving away on something that Nancy Pelosi sees as an issue of principle and Chuck Schumer sees as a question of Congressional prerogatives (to not sepnd money or pass legislation unless they want to)

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  119. there is a distinction between what they can’t do, and what they are unwilling to do,

    narciso (d1f714)

  120. Eliminate the Foreign ag service
    merge all 4 ag outreach and research programs into one and cut the budget in half.
    fund the food safteyinspecting services wither fees
    replace farm subsidies with farmer savings accounts and upgraded crop insurance.
    All little things add up.

    mg (8cbc69)

  121. the sleazy trashy men and women of the dirty fbi should all be fired and placed on a no hire list

    this would save money and cut down on corruption at the same time

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  122. to top having the Houthi spokesman as post columnist, they pick Yehia hamid who is that a fmr minister in morsi’s govt, remember the people boot and wehner and kristol vouched for,

    narciso (d1f714)

  123. well I applied for the foreign service, I thought they didn’t take me because of exotic languages or a masters degree, then you see who they did take, same with marie harf of the company,

    narciso (d1f714)

  124. Trump should care because the majority of the public isn’t with him on the issue and blames him for the shutdown; over time, it’s going to chew up his remaining political capital. But more to the point, over time, the continued shutdown is going to hurt his allies in Congress.

    And this is where you miss the feelings on the right. The wall is an act of utter frustration with the lies and delays of the left on the issue of illegal immigration. They are seen as actively encouraging this invasion for partisan advantage, and nothing they say is believed. The wall isn’t a monument, it’s a WALL. Brute force approach to a problem where decades of nuanced responses have been subverted by people who are actively on the other side.

    Trump will lose his support by caving. His remaining political capital is BASED on building a wall. He can keep (5% of) the government shit down forever and his base will cheer. They will feed off of government workers’ tears.

    Impasse. And Trump has a veto.

    Kevin M (cb624b)

  125. Suppose a family realizes they need to adjust their budget. Mommy tells daddy to stop going to the strip club once a week, and stop eating Taco Bell on his commute home every day. Daddy points out that the total spending on Taco Bell and Chicas Bonitas is only $500 per month, and this is half the cost of their mortgage, and therefore “mommy, i’m not calling you stupid, but this suggestion is misguided.”

    Bad analogy.

    Look, anything that is wasteful is indefensible. But you seem to think that contracting out, for example, airport security would somehow make it free. It won’t. It will simply redistribute the costs. Since the contracted service provider will need to make a profit as an incentive, it could well raise the costs instead. Or lower the level of security by cutting corners.

    Airport security is an essential service that protects us all. You ignore the fact that the TSA allows the government to share intelligence collected by sensitive means with the people doing the job. Could it be done by private contractors? Probably. Could it be done as effectively and efficiently? Far less clear.

    Who made the 1990s the metric of this particular kind of spending?

    You want a balanced budget. The last time we had one would seem like a relevant point of reference.

    Dave (1bb933)

  126. @116. Let Trump be Trump: borrow pesos for the wall from Mexico; ‘See, they paid for it’… then sucker’em by defaulting the loan. “Ay, carumba!” It’s the ‘Bart-of-the-deal,’ Trump-style. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  127. @126. Can $14 billion aircraft carriers w/$6 billion/yr., annual operating budgets still be sunk by $2.5 million Exocet missiles? Asking for a friend. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  128. Trump should care because the majority of the public isn’t with him on the issue and blames him for the shutdown

    And this just isn’t true. The majority of people are in favor of border security, although they may not support the exact solution of a wall (although that’s still about 50-50).

    The majority is most definitely NOT in favor of open borders. What they are in favor of is dependent upon how gullible they are, or maybe just how much attention they’ve been paying.

    Kevin M (cb624b)

  129. the person in the link, had the dubious record of the worst parliamentary defeat in Canadian history up to that point,

    narciso (d1f714)

  130. @126. Can $14 billion aircraft carriers w/$6 billion/yr., annual operating budgets still be sunk by $2.5 million Exocet missiles? Asking for a friend

    Sure. Can a $3 trillion megacity be destroyed by a $100 million ICBM? That, too.

    Kevin M (cb624b)

  131. Trump should care because the majority of the public isn’t with him on the issue and blames him for the shutdown; over time, it’s going to chew up his remaining political capital. But more to the point, over time, the continued shutdown is going to hurt his allies in Congress.

    And this is where you miss the feelings on the right. The wall is an act of utter frustration with the lies and delays of the left on the issue of illegal immigration. They are seen as actively encouraging this invasion for partisan advantage, and nothing they say is believed. The wall isn’t a monument, it’s a WALL. Brute force approach to a problem where decades of nuanced responses have been subverted by people who are actively on the other side.

    Trump will lose his support by caving. His remaining political capital is BASED on building a wall. He can keep (5% of) the government shut down forever and his base will cheer. They will feed off of government workers’ tears.

    Impasse. And Trump has a veto

    *reposted due to typo triggering Nanny)

    Kevin M (cb624b)

  132. *First paragraph above in a quoteback

    Kevin M (cb624b)

  133. @131. My. That would bring real estate values down to ground zero level; not good for all those Russian rubles invested in Trump Tower apartments.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  134. @132. Trump won’t cave; he’ll blame a cave-in on GOP senators crumbling. ‘Duck and cover’ – the Turtle will be safe in his shell.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  135. Can $14 billion aircraft carriers w/$6 billion/yr., annual operating budgets still be sunk by $2.5 million Exocet missiles?

    The dubious “$6 billion/yr annual operating budget” includes all the ships of the support group, which would not be sunk by single Exocet.

    So no.

    Dave (1bb933)

  136. Trump’s “strategic communications director” had a brief lapse of honesty today:


    Taxpayers will pay for wall, White House aide acknowledges

    US taxpayers will foot the bill for a border wall, White House strategic communications director Mercedes Schlapp acknowledged in an interview on Wednesday.

    “Yes,” Schlapp said when pressed by CNN’s Jim Sciutto about taxpayers paying for the wall.

    In her defense, it’s unfair to expect any mere mortal to lie as constantly and consistently as Donald Trump.

    Dave (1bb933)

  137. we don’t know for sure who’ll pay for the wall but we know who pays for not having one

    ALL of us!

    and some of us PAY WITH OUR LIVES and leave Angel Moms and Angel Dads and Angel Wives and Angel Husbands and Angel Sisters and Angel Brothers behind (senseless tragedy)

    so when you ask me who will pay for the wall

    I say I don’t know probably Mexico

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  138. But, boy, will Mexico pay for us paying for it. It would have been lower if they paid for it in the first place. Trust me.

    Kevin M (cb624b)

  139. we don’t know for sure who’ll pay for the wall but we know who pays for not having one

    I pretty much figure we’ll pay both ways, in sequence. And probably again for tearing it down when a Democrat comes into office, then putting it back up when ….

    Kevin M (cb624b)

  140. @137. Exocets are bank shots. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  141. Mexico will pay for the wall. Or there will be no wall.

    The rest is theatre.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  142. A Huge BP Find: 1B Barrels of Crude

    BP higher-ups say that pumping money into new seismic and data processing tech deserves credit for helping the company ID the discovery at Thunder Horse in weeks, instead of taking up to a year.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  143. “CNN’s Jim Sciutto”

    Now that Obama admin shill/tool is mos def the go-to guy for honest brokering, constantly sought out by rock-ribbed conservatives. Good catch!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  144. Former Obama state department official Jim sciutto. I guess an 8-10 minute window doesn’t allow a whole lot of info

    Narciso (267def)

  145. narciso… I’m waiting for the first link to Bulwark being posted here. That will be quite a tell right there.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  146. Well the bulwinkle is unintentional humor, tKe Charlie Sykes and pushing the last narrative. They do recognize intentional
    humor with Dave barry.

    Narciso (267def)

  147. Hard for a deflated media to factcheck or to question the 266,000 arrests of aliens with criminal records, 100,000 assaults, 30,000 sex crimes, 4,000 violent killings, the 1 in 3 women sexually assaulted in the trek through Mexico, or the 20,000 miigrant children illegally brought into the country last month, many used by coyotes and gangs. Facts are facts.

    A lot of late night booty calls to collusion by the media last night.

    Perhaps one day people will get serious about this.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  148. Now that Obama admin shill/tool is mos def the go-to guy for honest brokering, constantly sought out by rock-ribbed conservatives. Good catch!

    LOL.

    Another fact-free, thought-free ad hom

    Dave (1bb933)

  149. Oh wait… factcheckers did determine it isn’t 1 in 3 women getting raped on the trek, it’s really 4 in 5.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  150. Well since Ben rbodes brother was replaced at CBS news they had a fact check, which pointed out that trump had low balled a stat and they subsequently memory holes it.

    Narciso (267def)

  151. Sciutto has quite a record, quite a trail, google is your friend.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  152. Sciutto has quite a record, quite a trail, google is your friend.

    So you believe he falsified the quote, or …?

    Dave (1bb933)

  153. If Democratic leaders are saying it, rest assured reporters are saying it too… in most cases word for word.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  154. If Democratic leaders are saying it, rest assured reporters are saying it too… in most cases word for word.

    Whereas the most powerful Republican repeats what people on the TV say word for word, instead of the other way around…

    Dave (1bb933)

  155. @159. More the radio of late- it’s such a Rush for ‘the most powerful Republican,’ too.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  156. Between Steyer Bloomberg and omidyar add Paul singer, the odds one can approach the truth before it has been ‘curated’ is highly unlikely. We saw the journolist the Iran echo chamber, the rizzotto tray press.

    Narciso (267def)

  157. It doesn’t matter who’s to blame!!!1! If Trump can’t get the job done, what do we want him in the White House for? For his good looks? For his extraordinary charm and grace? For his exemplary character? He’s only good to us if he can do good things for us!

    Impeach!

    nk (dbc370)

  158. President Trump’s added a tremendous amount of value and improved the quality of life of even the most wretched and downtrodden Americans.

    People say, but why isn’t there a big wall on the border?

    The answer is obvious: the wall hasn’t been built … yet.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  159. He’s only good to us if he can do good things for us!

    How Trump can do good things for you:

    1) Listen to what he says.

    2) Pretend some of it is true.

    3) ?????

    4) Mmm, MAGA!

    Dave (2a1c05)

  160. More softheaded negativity. Just the ticket.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  161. Meanwhile the fact that Islamic state had a hitman living in Oakland for the last two years almost doesn’t bear mentioning, ot would revise that bogus DHS memo.

    Narciso (267def)

  162. “Our beleaguered President can’t secure our border and end a national security and humanitarian crisis.” Sound familiar?

    And the withdrawal from Syria turned to be so much moonshine and wet dreams too.

    nk (dbc370)

  163. President Trump’s added a tremendous amount of value and improved the quality of life of even the most wretched and downtrodden Americans.

    Fact check: True!

    Dave (2a1c05)

  164. Some credit should be given, for taking this stand, we know Ryan did his best to derail any enforcement with the curbelo bill, a grenade that exploded in his face.

    Narciso (267def)

  165. Better late than never. Congressional Republican inaction shouldn’t be relegated to the equivalent of page A-19 either.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  166. One gets the sense that if Schumer offered the same deal today — $25 billion for legislative DACA — Trump would jump at it.

    get the sense that a lot of media people think so, and I think they have no reason whatsoever for thinking that.

    What’a more, if Trump used tthe 1976 emergencies act to authorize construction of wall, that still wouldn’t end it. Trump would refuse to sign any appr=priation bill until Congress enacted some changes in immigration law he wanted.

    This will most likely end when Republicans in Congress decide it must end,

    Sammy Finkelman (39af9b)

  167. According to #FakeNewsCNN Lindsay Graham is trying to save Trump by cooking up a deal that gives Dems DACA and anything else they want in return for a tiny sliver of his fake wall.

    Thus Trump will end up trading away multiple concessions that actually matter in return for a useless face-saving symbol that won’t.

    Whadda maroon!

    Dave (2a1c05)

  168. Trump has been a total loss on immigration since Day 1.

    It’s about time that we started applying the same rule to him that he has been applying to all the people who work for him, from his cabinet to his lawyers: “What good are you to me now?”

    nk (dbc370)

  169. As opposed to who is still on the board, what about abominable Pritzker, he hasn’t said anything as cringeworthy as diblasio or never grewsome.

    Narciso (267def)

  170. When Pritzker doesn’t build that wall he promised on the Illinois-Kentucky border, I’ll clamor for his impeachment too.

    nk (dbc370)

  171. This is the deal that was derailed by the vekakte country thing, that Durbin picked out of his meester same place he kept the notes of meeting with hopkinson?

    Narciso (267def)

  172. I’m joking. I’m no more responsible for Pritzker than you are for Alcee Hastings.

    nk (dbc370)

  173. I was never in his district, it was bad enough I was in dubious debbies.

    Narciso (267def)

  174. Pat, you aren’t very smart are you?

    Rock Bottom (5a4596)

  175. Rock Bottom (5a4596) — 1/9/2019 @ 7:59 pm

    Bless your heart!

    Dave (1bb933)

  176. “I would encourage the Never Trumpers to try to put their country ahead of their egos and try to control their emotional outbursts.”

    — Mark Levin

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  177. I would encourage Mark Levin to get new batteries for his butt plug. Trump is failing our country, that’s the problem.

    nk (dbc370)

  178. Impossible coronello, much like zach snyder helming a decent DC film

    Narciso (267def)

  179. Meanwhile the fact that Islamic state had a hitman living in Oakland for the last two years almost doesn’t bear mentioning, ot would revise that bogus DHS memo.

    Would the Wall have kept him out?
    Fact is, building the Trump Wall will do nothing to keep out drugs and terrorists. Nor will it keep out other people who want to immigrate. And contrary to GOP mythology, letting in more of those other people is the best way to cut down on illegal immigration. All those asylum seekers are showing more gumption and more effort to improve their lives than almost any Trumpnik.

    It doesn’t matter why the Democrats are against the Wall. Just a basic application of conservative principles says we need more immigrants, not fewer.

    Kishnevi (9ffe18)

  180. Anyone who still talks about how Trump said Mexico would pay for the wall is a Democrat, repeating Democrat Shibboleths. Kinda like the guys who still talked about “Voodoo Economics” in 1986.

    Kevin M (cb624b)

  181. Wasn’t “Rock Bottom” the Professor’s stooge on Felix the Cat?

    Kevin M (cb624b)

  182. And more immigrants will keep out terrorist and drug dealers whatever.

    Narciso (267def)

  183. Narciso, you do realize that half of the UK thinks Brexit is completely wrong?

    Kishnevi (9ffe18)

  184. Trump is failing our country, that’s the problem.

    It’s closer to “he has no idea how this thing works” that is the problem. Even if you agree with his platform, and it’s not all bad, you have to admit that he is woefully ineffectual at getting things done.

    Reagan had an opposition House the whole 8 years and he made enormous changes while defeating the Soviets. Top marginal tax rates down from 70% to 28%, the world made safe for capitalism, global trade, and the US military recovered from the ashes of Viet Nam.

    Trump can’t build a wall.

    Kevin M (cb624b)

  185. Exactly, Kevin.

    nk (dbc370)

  186. Trump can’t build a wall.

    Trump does not want to build a wall.
    He wants people to think he is building a wall.

    Kishnevi (9ffe18)

  187. And more immigrants will keep out terrorist and drug dealers whatever.
    If you are not fixated on keeping out normal people it’s a lot easier to focus on keeping out the abnormal people.

    Kishnevi (9ffe18)

  188. It’s closer to “he has no idea how this thing works” that is the problem.

    Even that would be manageable if he had the ability to learn and the desire to do his job well.

    He lacks both, utterly.

    And that is due to obvious character defects that should have prevented anyone with a modicum of sense from voting for him.

    Dave (1bb933)

  189. Dave, you are forgetting the fact that Hillary intended to declare a Communist dictatorship on 1/21/2017 had she been elected.

    Kishnevi (9ffe18)

  190. The Congress writes multitrillion dollar signing statements refuses to reverse egregiously malicious legislation or enforce existing law that’s how things are suppose to work?

    Narciso (d02ef1)

  191. Dave, you are forgetting the fact that Hillary intended to declare a Communist dictatorship on 1/21/2017 had she been elected.

    “I know Hillary and I think she’d make a great president”
    – Donald Trump

    Dave (1bb933)

  192. There are no boll weevils or else Obamacare doesn’t get passed, the design of the stimulus is unlike any serious project man could conceive. There was a tiny moment where there was an attempt at real budget reform but he was booted out and replaced by a pork obsessed mass sexual assaulter

    Narciso (d02ef1)

  193. “Wasn’t “Rock Bottom” the Professor’s stooge on Felix the Cat?”

    You are dating yourself, Pops.

    Colonel Haiku (3116bd)

  194. “Even that would be manageable if he had the ability to learn and the desire to do his job well.”
    Dave (1bb933) — 1/9/2019 @ 8:54 pm

    Trump hasn’t learned the value of simply declaring “Mission Accomplished”.

    Only after doing his job so well that an AOC succeeds him as president, with a supermajority, can he truly achieve Bush League status.

    Munroe (d5ebcc)

  195. “Anyone who still talks about how Trump said Mexico would pay for the wall is a Democrat, repeating Democrat Shibboleths. Kinda like the guys who still talked about “Voodoo Economics” in 1986.“

    And lacking the stones to be honest and admit it.

    Colonel Haiku (3116bd)

  196. Anyone who still talks about how Trump said Mexico would pay for the wall is a Democrat, repeating Democrat Shibboleths.

    Not sure I follow your logic.

    He doubled down on it (dishonestly, of course) last night in his big speech, and it’s somehow off-limits to talk about today?

    Dave (1bb933)

  197. Bill press on Russia TV, is as foolish as Charlie sykes

    Narciso (d02ef1)

  198. Fact is, building the Trump Wall will do nothing to keep out drugs and terrorists. Nor will it keep out other people who want to immigrate. And contrary to GOP mythology, letting in more of those other people is the best way to cut down on illegal immigration. All those asylum seekers are showing more gumption and more effort to improve their lives than almost any Trumpnik.

    It doesn’t matter why the Democrats are against the Wall. Just a basic application of conservative principles says we need more immigrants, not fewer.

    Kishnevi (9ffe18) — 1/9/2019 @ 8:27 pm

    Does any nation have a right to enforce its borders and decide who is allowed to live there? If so, which?

    NJRob (4d595c)

  199. In point of fact, they don’t believe in borders if they ever did, its disappointing that 40 possums had to be put into a pie, before anyone reacted

    Narciso (d02ef1)

  200. Wow, Kishnevi’s fevered postings of stridently shrill conventional wisdom are like an almost perfect inverse of both the truth and what’s likely to happen, you may be able to use him as a Paul Krugman of political prognostication.

    Father Jerry (b60126)

  201. Dave – You do understand you are the smartest person in the universe. Where does your expertise rise from? I can tell you have many qualities. Do you drive a beamer? What year? What color? Do you favor flares or bell-bottoms? shoes or sandals? Sandals and a robe, I bet.

    mg (8cbc69)

  202. 209 why are people who drive bmw’s recession proof? answer because you can deliver pizza really fast in them. what is the difference between a bmw and a porcupine? answer on a porcupine all the pricks are on the outside.

    lany (42b732)

  203. @ Kishnevi at 194 – “If you are not fixated on keeping out normal people it’s a lot easier to focus on keeping out the abnormal people”

    Have you some sort of ability to tell the criminals and the terrorists from the normal folks that us sheeple don’t have? I don’t seem to recall criminals and terrorists being absolute dunderheads waving signs announcing their evil intent?

    CygnusAnalogMan (9c66ec)

  204. mg (8cbc69) — 1/10/2019 @ 12:17 am

    Thank you for the personal attack.

    Dave (1bb933)

  205. prayers for everyone involved

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  206. They dont heck thr fellow at the ft. Lauderdale airport shootout walked into the Anchorage bureau office and they let him go. Too busy chasing Carter page intl superspy I guess.

    Narciso (0b1c92)

  207. Check, the fellow with Islamist affiliations as with Orlando and San bernadino,

    Narciso (0b1c92)

  208. The fact that we have reach back into Obama epoch for such references is indicative of:
    A. response by would be islamophile terrorists to the strong horse of Trump
    B. directives of not to engage from favored regimes and figures e.g. MBS/Saudi Arabia
    C. a suspension of actvisies by known wolves choosing to “chill” whilst central American Hispanics are the bad group
    D. focus on the low hanging fruit of Western Europe

    urbanleftbehind (fd650f)

  209. The problem is the dems don’t want to stop chain migration or reduce the number of migrants from suspect countries or any other effective measure and they’ve been attacking ice on top of it.

    Narciso (0b1c92)

  210. 209… Prius with a bumper sticker: “If Dis Prius Be Rockin’, Don’t Bother Knockin’ “

    Colonel Haiku (3116bd)

  211. I hope it had all around tinted windows.

    urbanleftbehind (fd650f)

  212. Oh, come on! Everybody knows that every terrorist attack has been plotted and carried out by The Government in order to frighten the people into giving up more and more of our freedoms. The reason we haven’t had any since Trump became President is because he is as ineffectual in this area as he is at everything else.

    nk (dbc370)

  213. I’m assuming basic incompetence not deliberate malice.

    Narciso (0b1c92)

  214. or 5. the personnel’s motivation for joining the FBI finally reflects the War on Terror. This is the rationale for Italian mob investigations and Black Klansman-like takedowns well into the new millenium when one can argue cartels, new wave Latino gangs, and islamic terrorists have a far higher threat. The expertise might have finally cleared its respective background checks around the time of administration transition.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  215. I see slag on some of those, I think someone meant ‘cut’. Slag is a by product of plasma cutting which would make more sense with that concrete fill. Mistake or lie!

    Rich (de9149)

  216. If not a wall the military can plant anti personel mines between barb wire fence. see which democrats prefer.

    az jay (8eedb4)


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