Patterico's Pontifications

1/8/2019

Networks Give Airtime To Trump To Make Case For Wall, And Give Democrats Time For Rebuttal

Filed under: General — Dana @ 8:11 am



[guest post by Dana]

Responding to pressure from Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer, the networks will be giving the Democrats airtime to rebut any claims the president makes tonight during his primetime address to the nation concerning border security:

Several major networks announced on Tuesday morning that they will air the Democratic response to President Donald Trump’s prime-time Oval Office address on immigration.

So far, CBS, NBC, and CNN have said they will carry the response. On Monday, all of of the major networks said they would air the president’s speech, prompting Democratic leaders to call for space to rebut him.

“Now that the television networks have decided to air the President’s address, which if his past statements are any indication will be full of malice and misinformation, Democrats must immediately be given equal airtime,” House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer said in a joint statement on Monday.

Vice President Mike Pence said the president will use his speech to “explain to the American people that we have a humanitarian and security crisis at our southern border.”

CNN is reporting that Nancy Pelosie and Chuck Schumer will be giving the response for the Democrats tonight. And before anyone cries foul, Dave Weigel reminds us that the networks gave the GOP airtime to give a rebuttal to a non-SOTU speech (by President Obama) concerning the debt limit.

Ilya Somin considers whether the president can claim emergency powers in order to use eminent domain to build his wall without congressional authorization:

President Donald Trump claims he can use an “emergency” declaration to secure funding to use eminent domain to acquire land for his border wall, even without any additional congressional authorization. The validity of this claim is dubious at best. It is far from clear that emergency powers can be used to build the wall. Even if they can, it is questionable whether that would authorize the use of eminent domain to seize private property. And if the president succeeds in using an emergency declaration for such dubious purposes, it would set a precedent that conservative Republicans are likely to have reason to regret the next time a liberal Democrat occupies the White House.

In a recent New York Times op ed, Yale Law School Prof. Bruce Ackerman outlines some reasons why it would be illegal for Trump to use an emergency declaration to build the wall: President Trump on Friday said that he was considering the declaration of a “national emergency” along the border with Mexico, which he apparently believes would allow him to divert funds from the military budget to pay for a wall, and to use military personnel to build it…

Begin with the basics. From the founding onward, the American constitutional tradition has profoundly opposed the president’s use of the military to enforce domestic law. A key provision, rooted in an 1878 statute and added to the law in 1956, declares that whoever “willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force” to execute a law domestically “shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years” — except when “expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress….”

In response to the Hurricane Katrina disaster in New Orleans, Congress created an express exception to the rules, and authorized the military to play a backup role in “major public emergencies.” But in 2008 Congress and President Bush repealed this sweeping exception. Is President Trump aware of this express repudiation of the power which he is threatening to invoke?

The statute books do contain a series of carefully crafted exceptions to the general rule. Most relevantly, Congress has granted the Coast Guard broad powers to enforce the law within the domestic waters of the United States. But there is no similar provision granting the other military services a comparable power to “search, seize and arrest” along the Mexican border.

Not everyone agrees:

…Ackerman’s Yale colleague John Fabian Witt argues that the issues are not as clear as the former suggests:

The truth is that the White House’s emergency gambit reveals the full extent of Congress’s dangerous delegation of emergency powers to the executive branch of the federal government. Elizabeth Goitein of the Brennan Center has collected a daunting list of statutes authorizing emergency powers, which is super helpful on this point. (Liza summarizes the statutes in a recent article at The Atlantic.) The upshot? Declaring a national emergency to build the president’s ridiculous wall would be a national embarrassment. It ought to be unlawful, too. But whether declaring a national emergency to build a wall actually is unlawful under current circumstances turns out to be much closer question than it should be. The key statutory provisions are 10 U.S.C. 2808 (authorizing emergency reallocation of certain military construction funds) and 33 U.S.C. 2293 (authorizing emergency reallocation of certain civil works project funds).

Somin urges consideration of the long-term unintended consequences that could come back to haunt conservatives:

I would tentatively conclude that Trump cannot use these provisions to appropriate funds for the construction of a border wall – even if he does declare a “national emergency.” However, courts often give presidents undue deference on national security and immigration issues, and that problem could recur here. I would be lying if I said I could confidently predict the outcome of a legal battle over this issue. I should also emphasize that I am far from being an expert on the full range of dubious emergency powers Congress has delegated to the president. So it’s possible I am overlooking some other possible source of wall-building authority….If Trump is able to overcome legal obstacles and use an emergency declaration to secure funds for the wall without congressional authorization and use eminent domain to seize the land he needs, conservatives are likely to have good reason to regret the precedent it would set. The same powers could easily be used by the next Democratic president for purposes that the right would hate.

Consider a scenario where Elizabeth Warren wins the presidency in 2020, but Republicans in Congress refuse to allocate funds she claims are necessary to combat climate change and institute the gigantic “Green New Deal” program many progressives advocate. President Warren could then declare climate change to be a “national emergency” and start reallocating various military and civilian funds to build all kinds of “green” construction projects. She could declare that climate change is a threat to national security, and use the Army Corps of Engineers and other military agencies to participate in the project.

Anyway, tonight Trump addresses the nation “on the humanitarian and national security crisis on our Southern border,” (this during the 3rd week of the shutdown). On Thursday, he will head to the Southern border “to meet with those on the frontlines of the national security and humanitarian crisis.”

Reading a variety of reports from media outlets “representing” both sides of the aisle (while attempting to appear neutral), what constitutes a “national security and humanitarian crisis” on the border sure appears to be up for grabs.

(Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.)

–Dana

194 Responses to “Networks Give Airtime To Trump To Make Case For Wall, And Give Democrats Time For Rebuttal”

  1. Good morning.

    Dana (023079)

  2. “The same powers could easily be used by the next Democratic president for purposes that the right would hate.”

    As if the Left ever holds back waiting for the Right to set a precedent. LOL

    Munroe (111b6a)

  3. They just do it, and then come up with the rationale afterward.

    Narciso (591339)

  4. Even I know that there is neither a national security nor a humanitarian crisis at the border, there is only an incompetent moron in the White House who, if he had really wanted a Wall all that badly, wasted the first two years of his Presidency fighting with his own Party, when he had both Houses of Congress, and even now does not know whether to sh!t or go blind and is just mewling and flailing about worse than when Roy Cohn mistook the Ben-Gay for Vaseline.

    nk (dbc370)

  5. “Why bother with the facts”

    Trump admin: “4000 terrorists”

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  6. dirty Mitt Romney’s bought-and-paid-for play toy Paul Ryan didn’t want a wall so he made sure that didn’t happen

    all he did was bust the caps to slop the filthy trash military

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  7. What if he doesn’t use eminent domain and just builds the wall where there is fencing? Then the eminent domain issue is not on the table.

    Tanny O'Haley (8a06bc)

  8. As if the Left ever holds back waiting for the Right to set a precedent. LOL

    Well, all of these rules were in place since Katrina, so a pretty liberal guy was in the White House for 8 years and didn’t do this. National healthcare is more of a crisis than the border, so it would be more of a justification, still complete BS, be only a metric ton as opposed to an imperial ton.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  9. Elizabeth Warren? Elizabeth Warren?!!? She is to be trusted ten times over Donnie Demento with fake emergency decrees. She might give us the Sitting Bull Memorial Solar Farm but Trump will give us the Sheldon Adelson Border Detention Canter And Casino For The Undocumented Gambler.

    nk (dbc370)

  10. the eminent domain thing’s a red herring

    that’s just fake news meant to give nevertrump filth like Jonah Goldberg a wee tiny morsel of talking point he can use to frame his juvenile nevertrump oppositionalism as something virtuous and principled

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  11. ‘Trump admin: “4000 terrorists”’
    Davethulhu (fab944) — 1/8/2019 @ 8:46 am

    Because if it were really only 4 terrorists… meh.

    Munroe (111b6a)

  12. Eminent domain is inevitable. The Wall will not be built without it. A large part of the border is private property.

    nk (dbc370)

  13. But given there is no national emergency escape clause in the Constitution, how would that work?

    Dana (023079)

  14. What if he doesn’t use eminent domain and just builds the wall where there is fencing? Then the eminent domain issue is not on the table.

    There is already a wall there, fence, Trump has been saying “steel slats” lately, so fence, because that’s what most of the fences are. Plus there are more than a thousand miles of nothing, so build 2 fences on the same ground, and leave the rest with nothing, or realize that any problem at the border is actually less now than any time in 47 years, and a $50B boondoggle is not needed. When an estimate is $25B in today’s dollars, when there is zero planning done, you can expect that to at least double, and then there’s the annual upkeep too.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  15. Just impeach the mother_____ and end this nightmare!

    nk (dbc370)

  16. it’s a wall just like thousands of other countries have

    no need to problematize it

    even the incompetent failmerican military has engineers capable of building a decent sturdy wall, though yes given how corrupt they are it would definitely cost several times more than it should

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  17. How did the first parts of the barrier built initially without eminent domain?

    Narciso (591339)

  18. I’d say that a careful reading of the relevant statutes by Congress may allow Trump to re-allocate unused military construction funds to build the wall. I think the eminent domain idea will be a poison pill for Republicans, but Trump is on record as liking Kelo because of that pesky dislike of paying market rate for wanted land or forcing owners to sell when they don’t want to.

    It’s also interesting to me to see the tongue bathing the media is giving the Democrats over their negotiating leverage in the shutdown. Republicans played the same playbook when they were only in control of the House in 2013 and were excoriated by the media as “not compromising”. Now? Well, its good negotiating tactics!

    CygnusAnalogMan (9c66ec)

  19. I live in a one-party (Democrats) state that limits the amount of soda a child can drink, has the highest gas prices in the Union, the worst roads, limits my 2nd Amendment Rights, makes me pay for illegal aliens’ healthcare, deprives me of water, prevents me from drinking with a straw, but by golly, I can crap on the streets of San Francisco and not get in trouble.

    Without even waiting for their usual dissembling response, I know the Democrats have no answers and do not deserve my trust.

    Colonel Haiku (3116bd)

  20. They were? You know, eminent domain most of the time does not mean a judge’s deed. Those are the rarest instances. The government can make an offer of just compensation for the land or an easement and the owner just signs twice — the grant and the back of the check.

    nk (dbc370)

  21. why would you want the land on either side of you to have a wall while your land become the rape and tuberculosis highway of the americas

    that makes no sense

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  22. UPDATE to post:

    CNN is reporting that Nancy Pelosie and Chuck Schumer will be giving the response for the Democrats tonight.

    Dana (023079)

  23. oops *becomes* the rape and tuberculosis highway i mean

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  24. Comment #21 x 100

    Colonel Haiku (3116bd)

  25. why would you want the land on either side of you to have a wall while your land become the rape and tuberculosis highway of the americas

    That’s why it’s “eminent domain”. “We don’t care what you want, take the money and shut up.”

    nk (dbc370)

  26. @ Colonel Haiku – You could snag one of those poop patrol jobs with the City and be self-funded into eternity! 😛

    CygnusAnalogMan (9c66ec)

  27. * dirty Mitt Romney’s
    * bought-and-paid-for play toy Paul Ryan
    * filthy trash military
    * nevertrump filth like Jonah Goldberg
    * incompetent failmerican military

    Please stop the abuse! cried adjectives everywhere.

    Good advice. You might actually get people to consider your point of view then, as well as take you seriously. Assuming that is your goal anyway…

    Dana (023079)

  28. We know pikachu is a performance act, like Michael flatley, is he still a thing?

    But Romney learns no lessons from his experience, except to join the lynch mob

    Narciso (591339)

  29. Maybe California cities should familiarize themselves with the concept of public restrooms.

    nk (dbc370)

  30. i just like to use describer words for emphasis is all

    it also helps with cadence

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  31. A fake emergency to build a fake wall.

    Makes total sense.

    Dave (1bb933)

  32. “Now? Well, its good negotiating tactics!”

    Trump couldn’t get a Republican congress to pay for the wall for the last 2 years, why should Democrats pay for it now?

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  33. why do people not understand and I’m including you in this group Mr. Dave

    the wall’s not just good for border security it’s a very forthright means to a very forthright end you see

    and that end is to bring america to a place where we can begin to rebuild a consensus on immigration policies

    our friendly wall won’t just stop the spread of invasive species like head lice

    it will reframe the whole discussion!

    and this is why it’s so thoughtful for President Trump to build this wall for us

    please to let me know if you have any questions, because once you understand this it all makes sense

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  34. There is already a wall there, fence, Trump has been saying “steel slats” lately, so fence, because that’s what most of the fences are.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c) — 1/8/2019 @ 9:15 am

    What if he just retrofits all the fences to the wall? My understanding is that they are already doing that at the California Mexico border.

    Tanny O'Haley (8a06bc)

  35. If invasion isn’t a national security issue, what is?

    NJRob (4d595c)

  36. Gee, if the ratings are good, he could get a series outta this!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  37. # 29

    You might actually get people to consider your point of view then, as well as take you seriously. Assuming that is your goal anyway…

    I’ve often suspected that Mr. Feet’s real goal is to test the lower limits of intellectual substance and moral integrity that will be taken as a plausible representation of Trumpista super-fandom.

    Radegunda (694c3c)

  38. Patterico — I’m sorry if I’ve just violated the rules against personal attacks. I should have thought a bit more about that.

    Radegunda (694c3c)

  39. Naw hes been like this, as far as I can recall toward woman candidates, as well as serviceman Christians any combination of these.

    Narciso (591339)

  40. @37. Know a sweet old conservative lady- a Goldwater Girl no less- who considered the ‘British Invasion’ a “national emergency”– even forbid her kids to buy Beatles records.

    We never let Mom forget it.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  41. The number of invaders has been dropping since 2007.

    Time123 (ae9d89)

  42. Whether or not it’s legal, it is politically inadvisable to use emergency powers in this case.

    1) The shutdown is a wedge within the Democrat Party, as their 100% loyal federal workforce is being harmed in order to further illegal immigration. This doesn’t play well with trade unions either.

    2) Using emergency powers may not work, will certainly be enjoined by some district judge claiming national powers (it is interesting that a national injunction stands even in circuits that have ruled against a similar injunction from a local district judge).

    3) It confuses the issue, putting process arguments in front of cause and utility.

    Trump should set a deadline for Congress to give him his funds, stating that after that time he will veto any bill extending shutdown pay to furloughed workers.

    Kevin M (cb624b)

  43. @ 34 Dave – isn’t it interesting that you assume the Democrats have a moral obligation to stop the wall from happening because the Open Borders/Country Club/NeverTrump portion of the GOP managed to drag its collective feet. Of course, these are the same folks who lead the kabuki Surrender!, then Play Fight! portion of the GOP during Obama’s presidency. Don’t get me wrong, I like what Cocaine Mitch is doing with getting judges confirmed and such, but if he, Bob Corker and the rest of the moderate Senate Republicans had found their spine during Obama’s presidency, we might have had a wall, a defunded ACA, etc. Instead, they lay there supine because the powers that be said so. I’ll say this about our clueless niece from the Bronx, AOC; she may be totally clueless how economics work, but she does what she believes to be morally right, not what is politically expedient and obedient to large corporate donors.

    CygnusAnalogMan (9c66ec)

  44. lawyers and legalized weed, NJRob.

    mg (8cbc69)

  45. “The same powers could easily be used by the next Democratic president for purposes that the right would hate.”

    Tell me again what powers Obama used to shut down all offshore oil production after the Gulf spill.

    Kevin M (cb624b)

  46. Well, all of these rules were in place since Katrina

    Not so. Repealed in 2008.

    Kevin M (cb624b)

  47. 60K plus every month attempting to illegally cross that border. A wall is an impediment to the smuggling of people, drugs, etc. Add additional agents and electronic tools and it will help even more.

    Colonel Haiku (3116bd)

  48. But given there is no national emergency escape clause in the Constitution, how would that work?

    Well, it does talk about invasion. Article I, Section 9 implies an emergency power in times of rebellion or invasion. Article IV, Section 4 requires the federal government to protect states against invasion, presumably by military means. Lincoln certainly used these.

    Uninvited people coming in droves over the border can be called an “invasion” without bending words too badly.

    Kevin M (cb624b)

  49. We wouldn’t be in this mess if Democrats had heeded Bill Clinton’s advice and followed his prescription 20 years ago

    Colonel Haiku (3116bd)

  50. eminent domain

    All this says is that a fair price must be paid. The constitution does NOT say a thing about the process. I see no reason why, in an emergent situation, the government could not just take the land, issue a voucher and say “come see us after the dust settles.” I imagine the courts would tack on a premium for their trouble. So long as they get paid a fair amount, there is no constitutional issue. Again, ask Lincoln.

    Kevin M (cb624b)

  51. @20. A ‘careful reading’ of speeches and tweets might be more appropriate: ‘Mexico will pay for the wall’… not U.S. taxpayers. Besides, he wouldn’t dare lie to us, would he?!?!

    “I will never lie to you.” – Donald Trump, August 18, 2016

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  52. Um because they werent serious about it then, remember Clinton had enabled a whole cohort of voters to be able to vote in 96.

    Narciso (591339)

  53. Maybe California cities should familiarize themselves with the concept of public restrooms.

    But what about paraplegic transsexuals? There needs to be an attendant of the correct gender just in case they need to use the public facility. And of course, it’s demeaning not to have a full complement of such attendants at each facility, and each of them MUST be equipped with all devices that might be required.

    So, we the defenders of equality of all marginalized people will prevent ANY public restroom until a just and fair system is created!

    Kevin M (cb624b)

  54. ‘Mexico will pay for the wall’

    He didn’t say when, or how.

    Kevin M (cb624b)

  55. That was the cycle where dornan was challenged as well as Jenkins in Louisiana with obviously illegal voting.

    Narciso (591339)

  56. If imminent doom isn’t a national security issue, what is?

    (I’m talking about climate change.)

    Leviticus (efada1)

  57. Good to see LA county had to purge their voter rolls of 1,500,000 – yes 1.5M ineligible voters.

    Thanks, Judicial Watch!

    Colonel Haiku (3116bd)

  58. So they can say most anything, what do they put their prestige behind:

    https://amp.dailycaller.com/2019/01/08/veselnitskaya-trump-tower-fusion?__twitter_impression=true

    Narciso (591339)

  59. 59… what changes have you and your family made in your lifestyle to combat this insidious issue, Leviticus?

    Asking for a friend…

    Colonel Haiku (3116bd)

  60. When Hollywood gives up their cars houses, heads their houses by candle light, them we’ll listen to them,

    Narciso (591339)

  61. It’s good that the “equal time” will be given to Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer – will they take it themselves? – instead of a nobody.

    The question is, will it be a response to the speech, or at least deal with the controversy, instead of the usual irrelevant speech that could have been delivered before the presidential speech?

    It might have bene better actually to give them the time a day later.

    How tru what they will say, or whether they will chalelnger certain ideas and claims head on, is another question.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  62. ‘Networks give airtime to Trump to make case for wall…’

    Of course. So stay-tuned; the more things change, the more they stay the same.

    “For God’s sake, Diana, we’re talking about putting a manifestly irresponsible man on national television.” – Frank Hackett [Robert Duvall] ‘Network’ 1976

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  63. dirty Mitt Romney’s bought-and-paid-for play toy Paul Ryan didn’t want a wall so he made sure that didn’t happen

    It was Trump who didn’t make it happen when he refused to allow DACA kids a path to citizenship. Had he budged, he would’ve gotten $25 billion for his wall (link).

    Paul Montagu (157021)

  64. Mexico will pay for the wall’

    58. Kevin M (cb624b) — 1/8/2019 @ 11:44 am

    He didn’t say when, or how.

    Trump has been saying now for a week or more, that Mexico is in fact paying for the wall, through the replacement for Nafta (which Nancy Pelosi called “the trade agreement formally known as Prince” because Trump is not calling it Nafta 2.0.)

    Here’s an example of Trump making the claim, as repeated last Friday:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/01/08/president-trumps-desperate-nonsensical-claim-that-mexico-is-paying-wall/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.92a49352e9a6

    “What we save on the USMCA — the new trade deal we have with Mexico and Canada — what we save on that, just with Mexico, will pay for the wall many times over just in a period of a year, two years and three years. … So I view that as, absolutely, Mexico is paying for the wall.”

    — Trump, remarks during a news conference, Jan. 4, 2019

    Trump doesn’t even seem to be talking about taxes, but about USMCA benefitting the U.S. economy.

    There are a number of good responses to that idea, but you know what the Democratic Party talking point (which you can tekll through it reappearing in articles by columnnists) is:

    It’s not yet ratified!

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  65. have you donated to go fund me the wall. trump should ask tonight and write a check himself.

    lany (855b76)

  66. Maybe California cities should familiarize themselves with the concept of public restrooms.

    I think most of the homeless in San Francisco don’t like them, aand they prefer to go as in Calcutta although they were probably not brought up that way, but another problem is they all have to be wheelchair accessible, and free. Maybe by law and certainly in any case if you’re agood progressive.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  67. Well no that’s not how it any of it works, montagu.

    Narciso (591339)

  68. 67… unless things have changed, direct links to Politico are frowned upon… even when linked by rock-ribbed conservatives who choose to consort.

    Colonel Haiku (3116bd)

  69. I think it’s a flexible standard like the shields in dune:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/JordanSchachtel/status/1082708578040012802

    Narciso (591339)

  70. I see no reason why, in an emergent situation, the government could not just take the land, issue a voucher and say “come see us after the dust settles.”

    Here in WA State, they call it adverse possession, where the government takes the property and the parties settle up later.

    Paul Montagu (157021)

  71. Former Congressman and current law professor Tom Campbell sees the endgame as follows: House Democrats pass a bill that increases spending on border security and expended fencing, to try and demonstrate that they are not gung-ho in favor of open borders. They will insist, however, that the money is for fencing (especially their obsession on “virtual fencing”) and not for a border wall. Trump will sign the bill in order to reopen government, then he will take the Democrats’ increased funding and apply it to a border wall. Dems will sue, but according to Campbell and based upon his experience suing the Clinton Administration back when he was in Congress, the House Democrats should be told that they lack standing to bring the lawsuit. It’s an interesting argument in as much as it puts an end to the silly Kabuki Theater, and would plausibly allow both sides to claim that they stayed true to principle.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  72. the land on the border is mostly scrubby and you can’t grow tasty avocados

    at night the chupacabra howls mournfully

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  73. Well no that’s not how it any of it works, montagu.

    We agree. Trump’s not engaging in the normal give-and-take of crafting law did not work.
    Oh, and Trump flip-flopped on DACA.

    Paul Montagu (157021)

  74. That’s a plausible scenario, but you underestimate an apparatchik giving them standing

    Narciso (591339)

  75. Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c) — 1/8/2019 @ 9:15 am

    What if he doesn’t use eminent domain and just builds the wall where there is fencing?

    Chuck Schumer has no real objection to that, so long as you don’t call it a wall, a fence or a barrier but “improved border security” and never get specific about what you are doing in your public statements, but what Trump wants is 150 miles worth of fencing where is none now.

    That 150 miles, of course, would not cover the entire remaining land border with Mexico, although Trump isn’t hinting at that. He’s claimed in fact, the work would all be done by the time of the November, 2020 election.

    That 150 miles is in addition to the 14 miles where a contract scheduled to be signed or soemthing, as soon as the Department of Homeland Security gets its appropriations – that’s even without new money for a wall or barrier. And now Trump wants also more prison beds and immmigration judges. But the Democrats are not for tougher enforcement of current law.

    Trump has been saying “steel slats” lately

    Mick Mulvaney has discovered that legally, steel slats are different from a wall. So now what he wants is (up to?) 150 miles of far from shovel ready barrier. Definitely no longer a wall, or at least he;’ll let teh democrats claim that is not wall, but a more aesthetically pleasing steel barrier that will increase employment in the U.S. steel industry and which no one will be able to claim is an eyesore.

    Plus there are more than a thousand miles of nothing, so build 2 fences on the same ground,

    There are now 654 niles worth of fencing. Trump wants 150 more miles, and the Democrats are adamant that no more miles be added (except maybe for the 14 miles already planned) although they are willing to provide money from more multiple layers of fencing or stronger barriers where there already is one.

    and leave the rest with nothing,

    That’s the Democratic proposal! Reinforce what fencing there already is and leave the rest with nothing. While Trump wants 150 more miles.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  76. They didn’t want a solution, that’s why they cooked up the!@$%$@$%% countries gambit, and fiund a judge to give it to them anyways

    Narciso (591339)

  77. 75. JVW (54fd0b) — 1/8/2019 @ 12:34 pm

    Former Congressman and current law professor Tom Campbell sees the endgame as follows: House Democrats pass a bill that increases spending on border security and expended fencing, to try and demonstrate that they are not gung-ho in favor of open borders. They will insist, however, that the money is for fencing (especially their obsession on “virtual fencing”) and not for a border wall.

    He could have had that deal on December 21.

    Trump will sign the bill in order to reopen government, then he will take the Democrats’ increased funding and apply it to a border wall.

    That might be if Trump wanted the wall rather than the argument with the Democrats, and was willing to let the Democrats (and his base) think he caved till he double crossed the Democrats after some weeks had passed.

    He would get a court case, an impeachment resolution (that would not be brought up to the House floor for a vote) and an injunction.

    Trump might try this thing anyway, using military appropriations.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  78. Billy Kristol and his band of gypsies have a new home and they have your backs, Never-Trumpinistas! https://pjmedia.com/trending/aoc-owns-the-cons-new-never-trump-website-off-to-a-shaky-start/

    Colonel Haiku (3116bd)

  79. You know that’s just embarrassing like elaine dancing.

    Narciso (591339)

  80. at night the chupacabra howls mournfully

    actually that’s ann coulter

    Dave (b1f139)

  81. I think this will end either by:

    A) Congress overriding Trump’s veto of appropriation bills, or signing them when he is warned by Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell that they will be. (this is an obvious way out that somehow nobody is talking about, but it will sink in taht’s taht’s way out in early February, unless Trump chooses Option E.

    B) Congress passing one appropriation bill at a time, and Trump signing them, or his veto being overidden, till nearly everything except a wall is carved away.

    The Democrats first ploy was one big bill for everything except Homeland Security, which would have a continuing resolution lasting till Feb 8.

    Now the Democrats have switched to the more likely to succeed ploy of passing appropriatoon bills one by one, starting with Treasury. They started with the Department of the Treasury because the IRS was not able to send people tax refunds (they prefered to go first with that in reference to teh Department of Agricukture because of Food Stamps – they wanted something for working people)- Refunds would normally start being sent in very late January but the OMB ruled in previous shutdowns that they can’t be sent.

    Trump has now reversed the previous ruling by the OMB that refunds could not be sent during a governmnet shutdown and the IRS is prepared to unfurlough some workers, although audits will remain halted.

    Trump is trying to keep as much going as he can without having to sign anything that might be sent to him by Congress.

    C) Trump being satisfied with losing for now, but getting an election issue.

    D) An idea nobody has thought of which an be called: Go Fund Me.

    That is, a new IRS Form WA-11 where people can dedicate say, $250 of their taxes to a fund to be used for bulding a wall (like the Presidential Election campaign fund, not paying anything additional) possibly combined with other funds like for electric car rebates. It won’t actually raise much money but the argument can be made if half the public supports Trummp, all the wall he wants will get funded. They can fight it out over time.

    And finally,

    E) Trump unilaterally re-appropriating money for whatever purposes on the basis of a 1976 law, and risking a court case, and then signing whatever bills re-opening the government that Congress will pass.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  82. I had a chance to catch up with my community college professor nephew over the holidays and he promised to do his best to stifle soft-headed academia’s long march to a socialist future.

    Colonel Haiku (3116bd)

  83. I think the most likely scenario in which Trump retreats is that he agrees to end the shutdown without a wall, but in return he tells the Democrats that there will be no movement on DACA legislation until a wall is funded. I’m assuming here that the courts (maybe the Supreme Court in a year or two) will ultimately agree that Trump is within the President’s Constitutional authority to rescind the Obama DACA order, at which point Democrats will have to think long and hard about whether this is a good campaign issue for them or whether they will be seen as continuing to jerk around the DACA recipients for political gain.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  84. Trump should be consulting with Uncle Vito about this shutdown and wall, he could do a lot worse!

    https://youtu.be/3EexW-JEHvA

    Colonel Haiku (3116bd)

  85. Speakin’ of school – and I was – I was asked to share my thoughts with my alma mater around what I had learned over my near 7 decades. I was the only speaker to show up, so I had the stage to myself. I talked about staying in school, getting good grades and all the usual good advice. I had plenty of time, since those other guys didn’t show, and I threw it open for questions.

    The last one asked was, “Can you give us a couple of your life’s philosophical beliefs?”

    I said, “That’s an easy one. Looking back over my lifetime, I’ve spent most of my money on guns, airplanes, fast cars, women and whiskey. The rest I just wasted.”

    Then I was escorted out without getting to finish my last two rules to live by:

    1) If it flies, floats, or f*cks, it’s cheaper to rent it.

    2) If it has tits or tires, you’re gonna have problems with it.

    I hope they invite me back next year so I can finish. They need to know this stuff!

    Colonel Haiku (3116bd)

  86. “what changes have you and your family made in your lifestyle to combat this insidious issue, Leviticus?”

    – Colonel Haiku

    Probably as many as NJRob has made to combat the “invasion” that he referenced.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  87. Two notrumpers are having a conversation about how few things are made in America and one says I just bought a new TV and it said built in antenna, and replied, I don’t even know where antenna is.

    mg (8cbc69)

  88. We mostly have a consensus on immigration, it’s just in the middle so nobody gets to go “rah rah base!” and nothing gets done. And “but the Dems will misuse it” is a utilitarian argument to escape having to make a definite values statement.

    Do we want a president, any president, to declare a national emergency when there is none in a fit of pique in order to override congress and appropriate money they haven’t given him. Is that a thing we want? Even if it gets us A Thing we want, do we want to break the governmental system in order to do that? My opinion is no, this is not a thing we want. We have a system for appropriating money. If we want Congress to appropriate the money for the wall, then we have elections to elect people to do that (especially since they were already there and could have appropriated the money any time before last week). There is no more border emergency now than there was 2 years ago, than there will be in 2 years. Trump’s fit at Democrats is self serving because it’s the Republicans who didn’t give him the funding for the wall. They could have done it and they didn’t.

    Do we live in a republic or do we live in a dictatorship? Do we have representatives who have independent thought, even if it goes against the President or the party leader or do we not? Is there a reason the ability to over-ride a veto exists or is there not? Sometimes valuing that system means we don’t get everything we want. Sometimes it means that people can buy a gun if they want to. Sometimes it means that people can get an abortion if they want to. My personal belief that thing A is best for the country and everyone who doesn’t agree is an unAmericn communist/fascist traitor doesn’t get to override the votes of everyone else, even if 40% of the country agrees with me. You value the system, you have to live with the system, EVEN IF IT GOES AGAINST YOU SOMETIMES. /rant

    Nic (896fdf)

  89. 90… Rob can’t build a wall, but he can support likeminded leaders and policy makers with his money and votes.

    I’ve read there are all sorts of actions an average person who fears climate change and mankind’s contribution to it can take:

    Eschew the automobile (sell them!) and make use of mass transit
    Avoid meat and become a vegetarian or vegan and insist others in your household do the same
    If your domicile is not already so equipped, install solar panels, high grade insulation, dual pane windows
    Keep your thermostat at 60 degrees during winter and forego the use of air conditioning

    Just a few of the things that come to mind… this issue IS one that you can do your part to mitigate.

    Colonel Haiku (3116bd)

  90. Just a reminder- now is a good time to order your vegetable seeds for spring.
    Fresh is best.

    mg (8cbc69)

  91. Walla-Walla-Washington: shiny object; big distraction. Just like a Russian sputnik, eh, Captain sir?! Coincidence… or collusion?!?!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  92. The buck stop here: ‘Mexico will pay for the wall.’

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  93. French is on a roll. If Trump declares a national emergency and starts taking property, he’ll get challenged in court and most likely lose.

    Paul Montagu (157021)

  94. “limits the amount of soda a child can drink” is untrue, Colonel Haiku @21. nobody is running around asking parents how much their children drink and punishing them or their children if some limit is exceeded.

    furthermore, the voters had the option of repealing the most recent gas tax increase and chose not to.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  95. Kevin M, at 53: the fifth amendment says no person shall be deprived of property without due process of law. Taking the land and issuing a voucher is unlikely to comport with the requirements of due process.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  96. Sammy, at 70:

    in most of San Francisco, there are no publically available restrooms at all after something like 9pm at night, and in most of the city, there are no publically available restrooms *at any time of day* unless you’re willing to pay money to buy something from a proprietor. Homeless people can reasonably be assumed to not be able to pay. Actual free-to-use restrooms are extremely rare.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  97. 87 JVW (54fd0b) — 1/8/2019 @ 1:23 pm

    .I think the most likely scenario in which Trump retreats is that he agrees to end the shutdown without a wall, but in return he tells the Democrats that there will be no movement on DACA legislation until a wall is funded.

    That’s pretty much where things stood before this started.

    All sorts of columnists keep on writing about a solution where wall funding is agreed to in exchange for DACA legalizastion, but that is non-starter, as Trump himself has recognized (speaking the truth here)

    The Democrats are not at this time interested in DACA legislation.

    Right now there is a court case claiming that Trump cannot revoke work permits for the Dreamers because he didn’t follow the Administrative Procedures Act. It’s weak but they are sympathetic litigants. So everything is on hold.

    If a 3-year work permit, as Lindsey Graham proposes, were legislated this would throw away the case. The leaders or spokespeople for the Dreamers do not want that. They could lose the case but they are willing to gamble on something saving them. The politics of actually starting deportation proceedings against any of them are very bad. Besides, they want other people included. The Democrats don’t want any opposition from that quarter.

    Lindsey Graham did not propose at this time a “path to citizenship” = green card or permanent residence status – because that was rejected by Trump last year.

    Trump wanted two things to go with that:

    1) An end to the diversity lottery, which Democratic leaders are willing to give, but only as part of a much bigger deal, and

    2) More limits on family re-unification, which Democrats are not willing to give into at all, on the contrary, they want legal immigration liberalized.

    In the meantime Trump has upped the ante, asking, in addition to funding more wall: More beds to keep people locked up, more immigration judges, changes in asylum law at ports of entry, and, in the last duiscussion with Democrats on Sunday, overriding the Flores consent decree that said that minors could not be imprisoned more than 20 days was talked about. (Trump also wants more Border Patrolmen hired, but that’s not controversial.)

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  98. In any case, the Democratic line now is:

    1) No discussion about anything until government funding is restored, and

    2) No votes on any legislation in the Senate until the bills to re-open the government are voted on.

    Schumer says he will even vote against cloture on a bill about the Middle East that supports Israel, Maybe he’s got other reasons.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/congress/senate-gops-1st-bill-on-israel-boycotts-divides-democrats/2019/01/08/21995b2e-1309-11e9-ab79-30cd4f7926f2_story.html?utm_term=.38d615899c5a

    The bipartisan package backed by Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., had initially drawn widespread support ahead of Tuesday’s vote. It included measures supporting Israel and Jordan and slapping sanctions on Syrians involved in war crimes at a time of growing unease in Congress over the Trump administration’s shifts in the region. But Democrats are split over the addition of Republican Sen. Marco Rubio’s “Combatting BDS Act,” which seeks to counter the global Boycott, Divest and Sanctions movement against Israel over its treatment of Palestinians and the settlements.

    For now, the package has stalled on a vote of 56-44, not enough to clear the 60-vote hurdle needed to advance.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  99. Senator Schumer is basically characterizing this now as a power struggle: Can a President force Congress to pass legislation?

    If he were a more of a traditional constitutional thinker, he’d claim that Trump is trying to deorive Congress of the power of the purse. He’s talking about any kind of legislation.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  100. How to cheapen the term ‘crisis’ – by raising cash and ratings; Deadline report suggests Trump fundraising letter/email implies address will highlight southern border ‘crisis’ and need for ‘wall’ but not declare ‘nat’l emergency.’ “Stay-tuned, folks!”

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  101. 101. aphrael (e0cdc9) — 1/8/2019 @ 4:06 pm

    in most of San Francisco, there are no publically available restrooms at all after something like 9pm at night, and in most of the city, there are no publically available restrooms *at any time of day* unless you’re willing to pay money to buy something from a proprietor. Homeless people can reasonably be assumed to not be able to pay. Actual free-to-use restrooms are extremely rare.

    What i read is they installed some (it didn’t say they were free) at some particularly notorious location, but they weren’t used much. I assumed there was something unsatisfactory about them. It couldn’t be that some people got so used to doing things Calcutta style they no longer were interested in using restrooms.

    Somehow in other cities whatever else is going on, we don’t have this problem, even though public restrooms are rare to non-existent.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  102. They weren’t free, you had to deposit quarters (and ONLY quarters) in them.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  103. 105. I don’t expect Trump to declare a “national emergency” Sometimes (maybe often if you listen carefully) Trump says what he means, and he said that might hapen after a few days depending on how things go. And it’s not enough days since.

    I think the (hints?) about declaring a national emergency got the networks to cover this live (broadcast networks did not carry an Obama speech about immigration – where he announced DACA?

    Trump will mainly say how terrible things are and that the situation on the border is creating a humanitarian crisis too (for the migrants.) and that controlling the border and stopping illegal immigration is vitally necessary for such and such pressing reasons. (drugs, crime, terrorism, and maybe he’ll mention money) and to do that he needs to build a wall. Maybe that Democrats really agree with him.

    Then the two Democratic leaders will give their spin on the government shutdown.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  104. 107.They weren’t free, you had to deposit quarters (and ONLY quarters) in them.

    so there was misleading spin about them.

    The argument for pay toilets is that people keep them cleaner, but homeless people may not be willing to spend money even if they panhandle. You would think they would try a dime, or a nickel. Even free tokens that people could get some place.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  105. 99… “The California legislature recently passed a bill banning restaurants from selling soda and juice with kids’ meals and instead requires them to offer a cup of milk or water in an effort to fight childhood obesity. But, the purchaser of the meal may still buy an extra soda or juice and hand the drink to the child”

    Soda pop is also banned from K-12 campuses, if I understand it correctly.

    The way that repeal of the gas tax was written up in the voter info and the way it was characterized in TV and radio ads was extremely disingenuous, aphrael. They certainly know their LCD demographic.

    Colonel Haiku (3116bd)

  106. 56. Kevin M (cb624b) — 1/8/2019 @ 11:43 am

    So, we the defenders of equality of all marginalized people will prevent ANY public restroom until a just and fair system is created!

    that’s the situation in New York City (but there are stores or other places that people can use – maybe. Not everywhere.

    They tried pay toilets in San Francisco charging 25 cents (and only accepting quarters, no combination of dimes and nickells as pay phones used to do) but that didn’t work. And when it didn’t work, they didn’t go back to the drawing board, but I heard on the radio, they started oroducing maps for tourists telling them where human excrement could be found.

    There are people whose jobs are to clean it up, but they have to do it over and over again because no sooner than it taken away, there’s more.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  107. “not allowed in the public schools” and “not allowed as the default option for childrens’ meals sold by fast food outlets” is hardly the same thing as “limit on the amount they’re allowed to drink”.

    i don’t know how prop 6 was portrayed in the ads, as i don’t watch tv and my radio listening is either the local npr station or podcasts, and neither of them really had ads on the subject. and i suspect that a clean repeal without the 2/3 majority vote requirement might have been more successful.

    but the point remains: the public voted on this one. the public chose to keep the tax in place.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  108. Trump has said that some former presidents told him they were sorry they didn’t build a wall.

    What presidents?

    He didn’t meet any of them till GHWB;s funeral.

    Carter, Clinton and Obama deny any such thing.

    GHWB was too ill for much of anything the last two years.

    Trump spoke to W on December about condoelnces for his fatehr and to talk about the funeral, but his office told teh New York times that the subject nmatter of the wall didn’t come up.

    George W Bush indeed proposed a wall, and built a lot, but at the same tiem he said that couldn’t solve the problem –

    Trump’s people started saying Trump was talking about some remarks they may have made about border security. Which is not teh same thing as anyone – even W saying he regretted not building moire miles of wall.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  109. Dec 5

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  110. Soda isn’t banned on K-12 campuses, it can’t be sold as part of school lunch and there can’t be soda machines selling it, but kids can bring it themselves and it can be given out during after school activities.

    Nic (896fdf)

  111. the self-cleaning public toilets *were* useful for tourists or non-homeless people who happened to be wandering around those parts of town. just not for the homeless.

    the hot new thing in a lot of coffee shops, etc, is an app that you install on your phone to get a code to use the bathroom in the store.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  112. 59… what changes have you and your family made in your lifestyle to combat this insidious issue, Leviticus?

    I remember working for a small company which offered no medical. Yet one of the partners was a zealot about how government ought to force companies to provide medical to their workers. Apparently, though, he wouldn’t do it until everyone else did.

    Kevin M (cb624b)

  113. Trump being satisfied with losing for now, but getting an election issue.

    Barring the argument that Trump is an idiot, what on earth would possess him to cave on this? Not one single thing he cares about (and many many things the Democrats care about) is affected.

    Kevin M (cb624b)

  114. President Trump is a magnificence and this is why America’s spiraling upwards and upwards to greater and greater heights of prosper.

    And now he says we shall buildeth a walleth.

    And so it shall be!

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  115. Kevin M, at 53: the fifth amendment says no person shall be deprived of property without due process of law. Taking the land and issuing a voucher is unlikely to comport with the requirements of due process.

    In the Civil War, the US Government issued “greenbacks” which they asserted were legal tender even though they were wildly inflated. The army took what they wanted and paid with these at par.

    As for due process of law, what about a voucher isn’t “due process”? Let’s ask Professor Bork.

    Kevin M (cb624b)

  116. The army took what they wanted and paid with these at par.

    and not much has changed except the dirty corrupt mil-thugs can’t even pass an audit these days

    they don’t even *pretend* to keep legal books

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  117. 112… yes they did, just as the people of San Francisco are good with having to be Olympic hopscotchers hopping over feces-encrusted homeless campgrounds. No accounting for good taste or even sanity.

    Colonel Haiku (3116bd)

  118. “the self-cleaning public toilets *were* useful for tourists or non-homeless people who happened to be wandering around those parts of town. just not for the homeless”

    I understand they worked well for the folks who shoot-up hard drugs and then wander the Streets of San Francisco… mos def not a Quinn Martin Production…

    Colonel Haiku (3116bd)

  119. It doesn’t inspire confidence, that they know their own interests, the fact that Pelosi has been elected umpteenth times doesn’t either.

    Narciso (b483cb)

  120. 115… “Soda isn’t banned on K-12 campuses, it can’t be sold as part of school lunch and there can’t be soda machines selling it, but kids can bring it themselves and it can be given out during after school activities.”

    Let teh Bells of Freedumb ring!

    Colonel Haiku (3116bd)

  121. they don’t even *pretend* to keep legal books

    President Trump is the head of the military

    i’m afraid he might be a crook

    Dave (1bb933)

  122. “the hot new thing in a lot of coffee shops, etc, is an app that you install on your phone to get a code to use the bathroom in the store”

    I hear the hottest app, aphrael, is one that tells you which SF streets are clear of teh human poop. And no, I am not making this up.

    Colonel Haiku (3116bd)

  123. OT – Beard Acquisition before announcing Presidential run….check (and bonus that she looks like that new chica loca).

    urbanleftbehind (847a06)

  124. … but the point remains: the public voted on this one. the public chose to keep the tax in place.

    aphrael (e0cdc9) — 1/8/2019 @ 4:42 pm

    The ballot title as submitted to the public to be added as a proposition to the ballot was:

    Repeal the Gas Tax

    This was changed by the California state attorney general Xavier Becerra to:

    Eliminates Recently Enacted Road Repair and Transportation Funding by Repealing Revenues Dedicated For Those Purposes. Requires Any Measure to Enact Certain Vehicle Fuel Taxes and Vehicle Fees Be Submitted to and Approved By the Electorate. Initiative Constitutional Amendment.

    Do you think the change of title might have something to do with the proposition not passing? What people don’t know is that the gas tax that was passed includes automatic increases and does not have to be used for road repairs.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_California_Proposition_6

    Tanny O'Haley (8a06bc)

  125. I don’t know about Human Poop, but Chicago’s Hyde Park neighborhood was notorious for dog poop covering most of the parkway in front of buildings and sometimes in the middle of the sidewalks. That was my Vietnam, going from my H.S. building back and forth to the 53rd St businesses for lunch and hopscotching doggy doo. And in Humboldt Park, stay on the sidewalks and concrete paths at night because those parkways were full of rats.

    urbanleftbehind (847a06)

  126. Tanny: it seems true to me that the measure would eliminate funding by repealing the law that authorized the tax *and* the spending. and it was *clearly* true that the constitutional amendment would change the rules in the future, requiring any new gas tax to get a 2/3 majority vote of the voters.

    I can understand that the “eliminates recently enacted road repair funding” language puts the focus on not spending the money rather than keeping the focus on not raising the money; that’s a fair objection. On the other hand, any short title which didn’t mention the fact that it was changing the vote requirement for future tax increases was outright misleading. So i’ll concede half the point.

    That said — is anyone actually swayed by the ballot title? In *my* communities, we get together and talk about the initiatives, and the LAO’s analysis features prominently; the ballot title is ignored, and the arguments pro/con are derided (pretty much regardless of the position they take, because they are usually not reasoned, and are in fact emotional polemics which display little understanding of the law in question). But my communities are … not representative, in this regard.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  127. 129… I bet they didn’t mention that on NPR, Tanny!

    I have a good friend who owned a beautiful home overlooking the Pacific Ocean down in Carlsbad, CA who – after this repeal was voted down – decided to sell his home and move he and his wife to Montana, saying “when the majority of voters of this state aren’t smart enough to know when they are being lied to and fleeced, it is time to move to a better situation.

    Now his main concerns are bears and bear spray.

    Colonel Haiku (3116bd)

  128. I hear the hottest app, aphrael, is one that tells you which SF streets are clear of teh human poop. And no, I am not making this up.

    Colonel Haiku (3116bd) — 1/8/2019 @ 5:43 pm

    There is a website called Human Wasteland that documents where human feces is in San Francisco. There’s also a problem with used needles for drugs on the streets. I don’t believe the site is being maintained and the person who wrote it put up a big banner because her original intent was to highlight the homeless problem in San Francisco.

    Tanny O'Haley (8a06bc)

  129. @118. It’s like saving coal: one doesn’t cave; one tries to transfer blame for the cave in.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  130. the weather lined up in chicago where we got a ton of rain this week and now a ton of wind

    i never seen everything look so clean here

    it’s kinda nice

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  131. “No way to send them back…”

    Planes, trains and automobiles… bring back bussing, eh, Captain, sir?!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  132. Probably as many as NJRob has made to combat the “invasion” that he referenced.

    Leviticus (efada1) — 1/8/2019 @ 2:19 pm

    Ahh, so you were directly targeting me with your remarks, but in a passive aggressive manner where you didn’t mention my name.

    How remarkable.

    NJRob (8cb5b0)

  133. Hostage video; very entertaining!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  134. There is something about basic hygiene standards that seems problematic.

    Narciso (b483cb)

  135. Well said, President Trump.

    mg (8cbc69)

  136. Climate change?
    It was 45 in Chicago today. It was in the 50s yesterday.
    We have had one snowstorm, only one, so far this winter.
    We’ve mostly had temperatures above freezing.
    Lots of cool, clean rain to replenish the water table.
    Climate change? Did you say climate change?
    Give me all you can spare!

    nk (dbc370)

  137. That was well-said.

    Colonel Haiku (3116bd)

  138. So, no Russian missiles in Cabo San Lucas… just rockets-at-the-ready in Mueller’s office, eh, Captain, sir?!

    Sleep well, America.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  139. I just received this text (along with a photo of a MAGA hat) from a number I do not recognize:

    The 2020 Campaign IS ON. You heard it directly from our President tonight. He is absolutely steadfast in protecting us. We need to have his back. Democrats are raising and spending millions to undermine President Trump and the America First Agenda. The President needs you to have his back tonight.

    If you can contribute at least $35 we’ll send you an embroidered MAGA hat tomorrow morning!

    PRESIDENT TRUMP NEEDS YOU. Click The link below to contribute!

    [not passing on link]

    Msg&data rates may apply. Text ‘STOP’ to quit.

    harkin (fd4b68)

  140. tomorrow the dawn will greet us with -1 wind chill

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  141. Good thing I bought a legitimate puffy coat, not one of those packables.

    urbanleftbehind (2d4cdd)

  142. Just wait five minutes.

    nk (dbc370)

  143. yes we’ve had a lot of variety the past couple three weeks

    but i’m ready for a blizzy blizzy blizzard

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  144. -1, did you bring a light saber,

    Narciso (b483cb)

  145. That was a big meh… did the same sock party that got to Tucker Carlson also get to Bizzaro Pauly Shore?

    urbanleftbehind (2d4cdd)

  146. Our wampas contrast with the snow, so we got an extra split second with either a light saber or a blaster.

    urbanleftbehind (2d4cdd)

  147. Poor Accoster… almost feel sorry for him…

    https://twitter.com/CalebJHull/status/1082765840133640192

    Colonel Haiku (3116bd)

  148. I think the Democrats made a mistake interrupting CNN’s rebuttal with their less credible one.

    Kevin M (cb624b)

  149. I’m concerned about my landscapers who eke out their living shoveling snow in the winter. They charge by the visit, not by the season like the commercial ones.

    nk (dbc370)

  150. Wrong 2,they needed the near impossible for the rebuttal, younger, whiter, less coastal and totally uninterested in a run for even-higher office or reelection.

    urbanleftbehind (2d4cdd)

  151. Really irks me how Chuck and Nancy say such mean things about President Trump.

    After he donated all that money to them.

    Dave (1bb933)

  152. Sit close to the wood stove with a cup of sleppytime tea.

    mg (8cbc69)

  153. sleepy

    mg (8cbc69)

  154. For the rebuttal they needed a pair of illegal aliens who employ people and pay taxes.

    Kevin M (cb624b)

  155. Didn’t they look OLD?

    Kevin M (cb624b)

  156. @144. That pretty much affirms what Deadline reported was happening a few hours ago.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  157. It is after blizzards that I was jelly of my “harboring” neighbors with 4 cars in front of a 2-car garage. If their renters had early shift, those guys got stuck shoveling before the main/official homeowners wokeup.

    urbanleftbehind (2d4cdd)

  158. So, that’s where the “!” went.

    Kevin M (cb624b)

  159. Mobs. They’re a French thing, you wouldn’t understand.

    nk (dbc370)

  160. ALERT–ALERT–NATIONAL EMERGENCY: BUILD THE WALL TODAY
    …or start to get some design proposals, laying out where it should go, get the design approved, start taking people’s land by eminent domain. That way by 2025 a wall contractor will be chosen, by 2030 some construction will have begun, by 2040 we’ll have duplicated the existing fencing with new wall, by 2050 the land to build the wall will be purchased and the court cases settled and be ready for construction, by 2060, 2075 latest, we’ll have a wall.

    ALERT–ALERT–IT’S AN EMERGENCY

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  161. Praise the Prophet Mohamhead.

    mg (8cbc69)

  162. “by 2060, 2075 latest, we’ll have a wall.”
    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c) — 1/8/2019 @ 8:42 pm

    You’re overlooking that by 2030 a border wall will be deemed a civil rights violation.

    Munroe (1d0605)

  163. Poll: Few Americans believe Trump’s false statements

    For months, President Trump has claimed that U.S. Steel has announced plans to build more than six new plants. Throughout the midterm election, he repeatedly said that Democrats had signed onto an “open borders” bill. And he has long charged that millions of fraudulent votes were cast in the 2016 election.

    None of these claims is true. What’s more, most Americans don’t believe them, according to a new Washington Post Fact Checker poll.

    Fewer than 3 in 10 Americans — including fewer than 4 in 10 Republicans — believe these or several other prominent claims by the president, according to the poll.

    Only among a pool of strong Trump approvers — about 1 in 6 adults in the survey — did majorities accept several, though not all, of his falsehoods as true.

    Among adults who say Fox News is one of their top two sources for political news, 33 percent believe in Trump’s false claims tested in the poll, on average, compared with 21 percent of those who say Fox is not a main news source.

    Dave (1bb933)

  164. Polls lie more than Trump does.

    nk (dbc370)

  165. We are at the mercy of The Misinformation Age.

    nk (dbc370)

  166. Where nothing is real.

    nk (dbc370)

  167. Like Santa Claus. He’s not real, either.

    nk (dbc370)

  168. How about Harvey the six foot rabbit.

    Narciso (b483cb)

  169. I’m keeping an open mind.

    nk (dbc370)

  170. Where nothing is real.

    Potato is real. You give me.

    Dave (1bb933)

  171. So, which will happen first? The wall is completed, or the Moonbeam Express has its inaugural run from LA to SF?

    Kevin M (cb624b)

  172. Potato fields forever.

    nk (dbc370)

  173. If trump supporters donate $20 dollars for go fund me the wall the problem is solved.

    lany (855b76)

  174. gonna get me some sharia law in them united states hee haw sharia law coming to a home near you yahoo

    mg (8cbc69)

  175. Your feel-good story of the day:

    Some schmuck with a fake gun cut out of cardboard in his pocket tried to rob this fetching Brazilian lass.

    His problem? She’s a professional mixed martial-arts fighter.

    From the looks of things the police saved his life, not hers, when they finally showed up…

    Dave (1bb933)

  176. the no trumpers and democrats don’t want border security because they make so much money on trafficking kids and dealing drugs.

    mg (8cbc69)

  177. The eyebrows of Pelosi are headed towards the Canadian Border.

    mg (8cbc69)

  178. Dude with the cardboard gun should have waited a few months more into the Bolsanaro administration, he could have got a real one with little hassle.

    urbanleftbehind (2d4cdd)

  179. The electorate opposes a border wall by a 40-60 margin. A good bit of the difference is that people are unhappy with Trump’s leadership….and don’t want to give him one of his more controversial proposals…..and flipped the House to emphatically make the point (despite the economy doing fairly well…except for the tariffs…and no erosion of foreign affairs…except for the tariffs). I suppose with divided government, we are at the point of symbolic gestures…and playing to the base. It’s time for the administration to take what they can get from the rest of their proposals (ICE and border guards, immigration judges, etc.) and declare victory…let 2020 determine whether there will be a wall….or a new President…

    AJ_Liberty (165d19)

  180. LEADING CP FORUM

    9tl.ru/kGISN

    Andrester (53904a)

  181. Whereas dirty weak George W. Bush (Yale 1968; Harvard 1975) brought us only endless war and brutal recession, killing thousands of our own hapless tatters in the process, President Trump’s brought peace and prosperity, providing good jobs to people who no longer have to resort to becoming cannon fodder in America’s humiliating wars of choice.

    advantage: President Donald Trump!

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  182. Jeff, MacKenzie Bezos Say They’re Divorcing After 25 Years

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  183. GWBush is the ultimate murder man who should be behind bars. Ive often wondered why the boooshes bough all that property in Paraguay? Perhaps since it sits on the largest aquifer in South America he plans on selling the water to Drug growers. 300,000 acres will get you some water for nefarious needs.

    mg (8cbc69)

  184. yeah that whole family just went rotten at some point

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  185. I thought James Bond had stopped that scheme. SPECTRE’s. To corner all the water in South America.

    nk (dbc370)

  186. I’ll tell you something else, too. The Gala apples and California navel oranges I’ve bought the last couple of times are the best I’ve seen in years. Thank you, Sky Dragon!

    nk (dbc370)


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