Patterico's Pontifications

12/8/2018

Rex Tillerson’s Candid Comments About President Trump Are What Most Of Us Already Thought

Filed under: General — Dana @ 11:12 am



[guest post by Dana]

Former first secretary of State Rex Tillerson, who learned of his dismissal via a tweet from President Trump, had less than positive things to say about his former boss in an interview with CBS News’s Bob Schieffer this week. Tillerson openly discussed the President’s lack of self-discipline, and let’s call it laziness with regard to his obvious disinclination toward becoming a more educated and informed leader:

“What was challenging for me coming from the disciplined, highly process-oriented ExxonMobil corporation,” Tillerson said, was “to go to work for a man who is pretty undisciplined, doesn’t like to read, doesn’t read briefing reports, doesn’t like to get into the details of a lot of things, but rather just kind of says, ‘This is what I believe.’ ”

Tillerson said Trump believes he is acting on his instincts rather than relying on facts. But Tillerson seemed to suggest that it resulted in impulsiveness.

“He acts on his instincts; in some respects, that looks like impulsiveness,” Tillerson said. “But it’s not his intent to act on impulse. I think he really is trying to act on his instincts.”

Perhaps the most damning quote came when Tillerson talked about how Trump as president regularly attempted to do things that violated the law.

“So often, the president would say, ‘Here’s what I want to do, and here’s how I want to do it,’ ” Tillerson said, according to the Houston Chronicle, “and I would have to say to him, ‘Mr. President, I understand what you want to do, but you can’t do it that way. It violates the law [and treaties].’”

Is it really the “most damning quote” when it’s looked at more objectively and without an assumed intention to break the law: Anyone going into the presidency who has not been a student of history, has not attended law school, (nor has a firm grasp on civics) is going to be in the dark at some level when it comes to knowing what would or wouldn’t violate specific laws or treaties. So to say that President Trump “regularly attempted to do things that violated the law” may be true on one hand, on the other, it lacks a bit of context. But, even when one takes that into consideration, I think we all know that President Trump, who has at his disposal any number of experts on any number of issues pertinent to executing his duties, has never been the least bit interested in taking advantage of these opportunities, for any reason.

No one who has been paying attention and isn’t bound by partisan loyalty should be surprised by Tillerson’s observations.

Finally, about Trump’s Twitter habits, Tillerson made a general observation, yet one which clearly included his former boss:

“I will be honest with you: It troubles me that the American people seem to want to know so little about issues — that they are satisfied with 128 characters,” Tillerson said.

Also not surprising, and simultaneously validating Tillerson’s point to some degree, President Trump picked up his phone and accessed that same 128-character vehicle to insult his former secretary of State:

trump

This is too easy: dumb as a rock? And who hired that “dumb as a rock” individual? Why, the person who famously bragged that he hired only “the very best people” of course! The back porch of the White House is now littered with those very best people. All hired by the same individual.

Exit question: Why do the “very best people” willingly accept a position in the Trump administration, when they know full-well that they too will be publicly humiliated by their boss when things go south? Perhaps this is a question Chief of Staff John Kelly will soon be pondering…

UPDATE BY PATTERICO: Kelly is out by the end of the year.

(Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.)

–Dana

143 Responses to “Rex Tillerson’s Candid Comments About President Trump Are What Most Of Us Already Thought”

  1. Reminder: A whole of us here criticized President Obama for skipping out on his security briefings…

    Dana (023079)

  2. Dana,

    since you bring up Obama… he’s one of those people who attended law school that you seem to think makes you knowledgeable.

    Anyone going into the presidency who has not been a student of history, has not attended law school, (nor has a firm grasp on civics) is going to be in the dark at some level when it comes to knowing what would or wouldn’t violate specific laws or treaties.

    Reality showed otherwise.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  3. I brought up Obama because people here criticized him for not attending his security briefings, which is similar to Trump not taking the time to read briefing reports, no?

    Also, I think I could easily assert that Obama was more knowledgeable about how government functioned, laws and processes. That ins spite of believing his decisions and stands were counter to my own, as well as at times, skirting the law. He knew, but also knew he would get cover for it. Trump doesn’t know. Period.

    Dana (023079)

  4. tillerson was feckless and incompetent but what lingers most is the general impression of him as a very weak man of poor character

    i don’t think he’ll ever shake that

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  5. Trump announced Kelly’s departure ‘at the end of the year’ on his way to the Army/Navy game.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  6. This ignores what Tillerson was likely blocking was an exit from the Iran deal or the climate accord.

    Narciso (d5f237)

  7. In sports, they always say unsuccessful coaches get fired because “you can’t fire the whole team”.

    Trump is showing us what happens when the incompetent coach keeps his job and you do keep firing all the players…

    Dave (1bb933)

  8. I disagree Dana. The difference between the 2 presidents was that Obama had established people working in support of his agenda and the media running cover for it. Imagine Trump trying to pull the wool over people’s eyes with a similar Obamacare proposal, with Nancy’s “gotta pass it to find out what’s in it” and his “if you like your plan, you can keep your plan” and “it’ll save everyone $2,500″ a year.

    Or his illegal order to give amnesty to criminal aliens because they were kids at one point that the court says Trump can’t repeal.

    Rinse, wash, repeat.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  9. And that doesn’t include Obama giving aid and comfort to terrorists, Cuba and Iran.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  10. “Dumb as a rock.”

    Would that be oil shale or gold ore, Captain, sir?!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  11. since you bring up Obama… he’s one of those people who attended law school that you seem to think makes you knowledgeable.

    It’s a fair question as to which is worse: (1) the guy understands the Constitution and was still willing to breach the document that he swore to defend and uphold or (2) the idiot who doesn’t understand the document that he swore to defend and uphold, and doesn’t have any interest in learning about that document, or the rule of law in general. To me, both are pretty bad because of the abuse of power.

    Paul Montagu (8afb2a)

  12. Imagine Trump trying to pull the wool over people’s eyes with a similar Obamacare proposal

    Imagine Trump knowing anything at all about the details of a policy proposal.

    During the healthcare and tax cut fiascos, when he briefly tried to appear engaged, underlings had to pull him aside, on camera, to remind him what “his” position was…

    Dave (1bb933)

  13. Just like the garbage 39 billion pound Brexit ransom, which no one wants they asked for a clean brexit.

    Narciso (d5f237)

  14. the eu’s like clinton herpes you never get rid of it

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  15. but you can dare to defy

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  16. Alphas don’t work for Betas. Trump is a Beta male and neither the Electoral College nor Article II can change that. So real leaders will not work for him for very long before they become sick of him and he becomes resentful of them. The only ones who will stick with him are women and other Beta males.

    nk (dbc370)

  17. Perhaps the most damning quote came when Tillerson talked about how Trump as president regularly attempted to do things that violated the law.

    I am interested in what this was all about. Too bad there was no follow up.

    AZ Bob (885937)

  18. DACA was bad policy and a power-grab, but there was nothing “unconstitutional” about it.

    Deferred action was a thing since the Reagan administration, and the ability to grant work permits to people subject to deferred action was already on the books when Obama took office too.

    Obama’s “innovation” was systematically applying something that was already possible to an entire (large) group of people meeting a specified set of criteria.

    Dave (1bb933)

  19. UPDATE BY PATTERICO: Kelly is out by the end of the year.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  20. Perhaps the most damning quote came when Tillerson talked about how Trump as president regularly attempted to do things that violated the law.

    I am interested in what this was all about. Too bad there was no follow up.

    There are so many things he could have been talking about…

    Patterico (115b1f)

  21. i wonder if Trump ever asked him to have the dirty men and women of the fbi raid the house of a government whistle-blower

    that would be really something

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  22. After listening to Tillerson speak I can’t see how anyone cannot think him pretty intelligent but if he objected to pulling out of the Iraq and Paris deals, then intelligence does not equal common sense, reason and promoting the welfare of the world.

    harkin (65fb70)

  23. There are so many things he could have been talking about…

    Yes. Known and unknown to him whether or not they violated the law. Not that that would really matter to him. Dishonest in business, why not dishonest in the WH? This specific comment of Tillerson’s makes clear that not only is the President too lazy to learn (for the betterment of the nation), but without someone willing to tell him “no,” he would be attempting to do whatever unlawful thing crossed his mind. And depending with whom he was speaking at any given moment, he could easily be persuaded by a thuggish leader that he looks up to. Which sadly includes several possibilities.

    Dana (023079)

  24. “I will be honest with you: It troubles me that the American people seem to want to know so little about issues — that they are satisfied with 128 characters,” Tillerson said.

    It troubles me that Tillerson would join the anti-Deplorable chorus. Should the people be more satisfied if the president’s views were distilled through an incurious and hostile media?

    Munroe (c6002b)

  25. It amusing that Trump tweeted this back in 2012:

    3 Chief of Staffs in less than 3 years of being President: Part of the reason why @BarackObama can’t manage to pass his agenda.

    We’ll see what the next two years bring. Of course he might flip this around as a justification for why he hasn’t gotten a number of agenda items done…

    Dana (023079)

  26. Munroe,

    Why do you assume that Tillerson is “anti-Deplorable,” whatever that means? Why can’t he be seen through a non-partisan lens as someone who had first-hand knowledge of the President? Also, he seems to simply be reinforcing what anyone can find out by reading Trump’s comments, watching interviews, etc., etc. It’s not hard.

    Dana (023079)

  27. No he is mischaracterizing policy, because they can’t defend the obstruction of policy, remember how he protected niac supporters at foggy bottom.

    Narciso (d1f714)

  28. Recall how mcmaster also purged pro trump officials by depriving them of security clearances

    https://www.conservativereview.com/news/state-department-approved-anti-trump-articles-pro-iran-deal-official/

    Narciso (d1f714)

  29. While allowing Susan rice and company to keep theirs for their unethical even illegal conduct (the unmasking of surveilled persons).

    Narciso (d1f714)

  30. After listening to Tillerson speak I can’t see how anyone cannot think him pretty intelligent but if he objected to pulling out of the Iraq and Paris deals, then intelligence does not equal common sense, reason and promoting the welfare of the world.

    The Paris deal imposed no commitment on us beyond filing inconsequential reports. Pulling out gained us, and the world, nothing, in return for a lot of bad PR. It was a stupid move that hurt the US to gratify Trump’s cultists by antagonizing their political opponents.

    Staying in the Iran deal gave us strong enforcement mechanisms to investigate and sanction violations. Now we have none of that. Instead, Iran gains the benefits of continued trade with the other parties to agreement and freedom from any accountability to us. Pulling out gained us nothing, and will make it harder keep Iran in check. It was a stupid move that hurt the US to gratify Trump’s cultists by antagonizing their political opponents.

    Dave (1bb933)

  31. The Paris climate change accords were complete garbage and would’ve been used by the left and leftist courts to further enslave the public to the toxic anti-energy luddite agenda that is now causing riots in France. Never allow the watermelon communists to achieve their agenda.

    Pulling out of the sham Iran deal puts the Iranians back where they really are as supporters of terrorism trying to get a bomb to nuke Israel. Pretending that deal was anything but submission to an evil regime is a joke and only fools and anti-Trump loons would claim otherwise.

    NJRob (3a305f)

  32. Appointing Tillerson was another Trump Blunder. Trump really seems to be dazzled by glib, “Can-do” talkers and never seems to understand he needs people who SUPPORT his positions.

    Tillerson as Exxon CEO was used to being the “Guy in charge”, and he wanted to make his own mark as Secretary of State. And not just follow Trump. Further, he was captured by the Dept of State Bureaucracy and supported dumb stuff like the Paris Climate accords and the Iran Deal.

    Sessions was similar. He wasn’t a hard worker and was more interested in his legal reputation then in supporting Trump.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  33. Tillerson left State, and Sessions left the AG, and have things gotten worse at either place?

    No. It just shows that, neither were really doing much of anything.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  34. All Cabinet heads end of in two situations:

    1) They represent the POTUS views and impose them on their Department; or
    2) They get ‘captured’ by the Department and represent its views to the POTUS.

    Tillerson and Sessions fell into the second category and got the ax.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  35. The Paris climate change accords were complete garbage and would’ve been used by the left and leftist courts to further enslave the public to the toxic anti-energy luddite agenda that is now causing riots in France. Never allow the watermelon communists to achieve their agenda.

    The only thing the Paris climate accords required us to do was submit reports. If the reports said “We plan to do nothing,” we would have been in compliance. We gained nothing except bad will by pulling out.

    Pulling out of the sham Iran deal puts the Iranians back where they really are as supporters of terrorism trying to get a bomb to nuke Israel. Pretending that deal was anything but submission to an evil regime is a joke and only fools and anti-Trump loons would claim otherwise.

    Pulling out leaves the Iranians in a far better position than they were in before it was signed. They are free to trade with the whole world (except us) now. If signing the deal was stupid, unilaterally pulling out instead of enforcing it is (stupid)^2.

    Dave (1bb933)

  36. The Paris climate change accords were complete garbage and would’ve been used by the left and leftist courts to further enslave the public to the toxic anti-energy luddite agenda that is now causing riots in France. Never allow the watermelon communists to achieve their agenda.

    Pulling out of the sham Iran deal puts the Iranians back where they really are as supporters of terrorism trying to get a bomb to nuke Israel. Pretending that deal was anything but submission to an evil regime is a joke and only fools and anti-Trump loons would claim otherwise.

    Ah, so your response is to shout at the sky louder, with more stridency, still with no understanding. That is the call of the Trumpster savior. Knowing things helps to solve problems, tantrums are what 12 year olds do to solve problems. Trump is a 12 year old, if you’re going trust in the judgment of a preteen, you’re going to get the results of a preteen.

    Trump’s policies are beginning to take effect, the economy is begining to stagnate because of trade fears based on his lack of any understanding of what he’s doing. Foreign policy, both security and political, is becoming even more erratic, the Kingdom fiasco is just another self-inflicted wound. Fiscal sanity, good governance, is now the enemy of the Trump party, law and order, constitutionality be damned.

    Hmm, a basket of deplorables, maybe that was the single most accurate thing Hillary said in her entire life.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (68437d)

  37. Before the Iran deal was signed, the whole world had sanctions on Iran, and they were supposedly two years from having a bomb.

    Now we are the only ones sanctioning them. How is that a setback for them? How are we better off?

    Dave (1bb933)

  38. general mattis is another one of them climate change pansies with no backbone

    he should just put on a dress and call himself suzie

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  39. he should just put on a dress and call himself suzie

    if he’s smart he’ll go sleeveless

    Dave (1bb933)

  40. If these sanctions weren’t hurting Iran, they woudn’t be making threats and Rouhani wouldn’t be losing his schiff on the world stage.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  41. “Why do you assume that Tillerson is “anti-Deplorable,” whatever that means? Why can’t he be seen through a non-partisan lens as someone who had first-hand knowledge of the President? Also, he seems to simply be reinforcing what anyone can find out by reading Trump’s comments, watching interviews, etc., etc. It’s not hard.”
    Dana (023079) — 12/8/2018 @ 1:19 pm

    Why do you assume the quote was a comment on Trump? It wasn’t. It was a swipe at the people who voted for him. Read it again. No, it’s not hard.

    I don’t doubt that Tillerson has first-hand knowledge of Trump. I also don’t doubt that he has the same first-hand knowledge of the electorate that the person who coined “Deplorable” (i.e., Hillary) has.

    Munroe (589f00)

  42. ‘… attempted to do things that violated the law…’ could be a conversational ‘turn of phrase’ w/T-Rex and certainly an Exxon/Mobil CEO likely has experienced similar banter among executives in the privacy of corporate suites. Any specifics regarding President Trump brainstorming extreme options w/advisors current or past would be revealing– but unsurprising given the grease-the-wheel practices of NYC real estate wheeler-dealers. Perhaps T-Rex will do a book. Presidents, in private, can pose pushing issues to the edge– and then over it- if they can get away w/it- as the Nixon tapes revealed.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  43. Ah, so your response is to shout at the sky louder, with more stridency, still with no understanding. That is the call of the Trumpster savior. Knowing things helps to solve problems, tantrums are what 12 year olds do to solve problems. Trump is a 12 year old, if you’re going trust in the judgment of a preteen, you’re going to get the results of a preteen.

    Trump’s policies are beginning to take effect, the economy is begining to stagnate because of trade fears based on his lack of any understanding of what he’s doing. Foreign policy, both security and political, is becoming even more erratic, the Kingdom fiasco is just another self-inflicted wound. Fiscal sanity, good governance, is now the enemy of the Trump party, law and order, constitutionality be damned.

    Hmm, a basket of deplorables, maybe that was the single most accurate thing Hillary said in her entire life.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (68437d) — 12/8/2018 @ 2:47 pm

    Direct personal attack.

    NJRob (3a305f)

  44. If these sanctions weren’t hurting Iran, they woudn’t be making threats and Rouhani wouldn’t be losing his schiff on the world stage.

    So making unhinged threats and freaking out is a sign of weakness and desperation? Interesting.

    Dave (1bb933)

  45. they are threatening because their economy, is in a shambles, their people are still in the streets, despite the legacy press refusing to cover it,

    narciso (d1f714)

  46. Direct personal attack.

    A critique of your response is not a personal attack.

    Your response to Dave was to more stridently state the exact same factually inaccurate thing, then say…

    Pulling out of the sham Iran deal puts the Iranians back where they really are as supporters of terrorism trying to get a bomb to nuke Israel. Pretending that deal was anything but submission to an evil regime is a joke and only fools and anti-Trump loons would claim otherwise.

    Now, that is closer to a personal insult but probably doesn’t make the cut.

    Trump was mad about the Paris climate accords for an inarticulated reason and lashed out, with zero alternatives, again couldn’t even state a reason, or at least one that aligned with reality. The accords impacted the United States not one whit, and being the only country on the planet to shake our fists at the sky and shout NO!!! is pretty silly. Trading international influence for tantrums and sulking isn’t going to help shape global policy.

    And to replace a problematic Iranian agreement, that at least had international buy-in, without any alternative, is completely the opposite of productive. What was the follow-up step, sanctions? Well, the rest of the world is ignoring them, and Trump’s own proposal exempts those countries that trade with Iran anyway. I would call it moronic, but Trump’s a 12-year-old, they lack sophistication and an ability to think rationally about even the short-term ramifications of their actions.

    If you’re not at the table, it’s kind of hard to play your cards.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c)

  47. Trump was mad about the Paris climate accords for an inarticulated reason

    In this case, and the Iran deal, I think the fact that it was associated with Obama made it easy fodder for the tribe.

    If you’re not at the table, it’s kind of hard to play your cards.

    The way I heard it was: “If you’re not at the table, you’re on the menu.”

    Dave (1bb933)

  48. the climate change hoax is no good

    even french people understand this

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  49. @50. Place Frogs in water and raise the temperature, they tend to boil, Mr. Feet.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  50. it’s collective delusion that is spreading to Holland as well as Belgium, whereas those who speak out about real threats, are shut out of the government, merkel’s mini me, is an example,

    narciso (d1f714)

  51. Pele, the goddess of fire used more carbon credits in 1 month than the world has to date.

    mg (21de20)

  52. “Pele, the goddess of fire used more carbon credits in 1 month than the world has to date.”

    Incorrect.

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/earthtalks-volcanoes-or-humans/

    Davethulhu (c2a30b)

  53. You can’t tax a volcano, mg, and it won’t buy carbon credits from you.

    Socialism masquerading as environmentalism, fake science, fraud, and hypocrisy.

    nk (dbc370)

  54. UPDATE BY PATTERICO: Kelly is out by the end of the year.

    Patterico (115b1f) — 12/8/2018 @ 12:47 pm

    Oh, please someone, anyone, tell me that Kelly got the phone call while he was in the toilet!

    nk (dbc370)

  55. That thin line between clever and stupid

    https://mobile.twitter.com/hereforthejava/status/1071535570872979456

    Narciso (d1f714)

  56. A lot of these things that people say are ‘against the law’ or ‘against treaties’ are not.
    They are just against the ‘common wisdom’ or ‘the way we’ve done things’.

    For example, the whole ‘born on US soil to an illegal immigrant’ thing. There’s no law passed by any Congress dealing with that. It’s just dicta in a Supreme Court ruling that was about fully legal residents. But it has the power of law conjured out of whole cloth.

    And that Paris Accords thing. Sure, it wasn’t enforceable on paper – but it would very rapidly have been enforced by our bureaucracies and the courts backing them up.

    So I don’t go with Tillerson’s accusations without exact details of each case. We elected Trump so he could break that ‘conventional wisdom’ for us because it looks like we’re getting screwed by it.

    Ingot9455 (0433d6)

  57. You forget ‘the first to denounce’ rule here,

    Narciso (d1f714)

  58. For example, the whole ‘born on US soil to an illegal immigrant’ thing. There’s no law passed by any Congress dealing with that. It’s just dicta in a Supreme Court ruling that was about fully legal residents. But it has the power of law conjured out of whole cloth.

    Umm, ever heard of the 14th Amendment? The SCOTUS had nothing to do with it, plus the US Nationalization Acts of 1797,98, and 1802, all prior to the 14th Amendment being ratified. This has all been covered before, as Trump has learned, hence he did nothing with his proposed executive order, he has no recourse. The only way to invalidate the Constitution is to pass an amendment and have it ratified.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (ab0951)

  59. Sure, it wasn’t enforceable on paper – but it would very rapidly have been enforced by our bureaucracies and the courts backing them up.

    There was nothing to enforce. It only required writing periodic reports.

    Dave (1bb933)

  60. Wasn’t there something like we had to give them $5 billion too?

    nk (dbc370)

  61. In any event, it was illegal because Obama did not submit it to the Senate for ratification. Even if that, by itself, was not illegal, spending U.S. taxpayer dollars on the periodic reports would have been.

    nk (dbc370)

  62. So Dave lines up with Bob Corker. Winning!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  63. Shocker coronello, isn’t it striking Schaeffer doesn’t ask to give one example, well not if you know him.

    Narciso (d1f714)

  64. I am shocked.

    Has anyone heard from lanyperry? https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/us-news/woman-arrested-naked-sitting-man-13700904

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  65. Sean Spicier
    @sean_spicier
    Too bad Obama didn’t have Tillerson around to stop him from doing illegal stuff…wouldn’t have lost so many 9-0 decisions at the Supreme Court

    harkin (1161c2)

  66. Wasn’t there something like we had to give them $5 billion too?

    Optional.

    Dave (1bb933)

  67. bob corker jew-hated his corrupt ass out of the senate

    life’s as big as you make it

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  68. I think it ended 30 fold that quantity.

    Narciso (d1f714)

  69. Ah, so your response is to shout at the sky louder, with more stridency, still with no understanding. That is the call of the Trumpster savior

    I’m not entirely sure what this means, but it seems edging towards personal attack. Be careful please.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  70. Anyways there are reasons not to take Tillerson’s assertions at face value.

    Narciso (d1f714)

  71. Germany, France and others were illegally funding Iran during the sanctions. Pretending they weren’t is silly. We hold nations accountable through sanctions whether other nations do or not. There are several on here that want to use the Magnitsky act to hold the Saudi’s accountable and it doesn’t pertain to other nations doing so. Funny how that works.

    Iran is a terrorist supporting regime. Just because Trump agrees doesn’t mean we should support them. Unless you think supporting terrorists is a good idea.

    CAGW is a lie and just an attempt to control the behavior of the populace. The scam is losing steam. Look at France for further proof. Anyone who signs on to punishing the people for this scam just has dictatorial tendencies.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  72. “tillerson was feckless and incompetent but what lingers most is the general impression of him as a very weak man of poor character”

    Tillerson’s previous work destroying one of America’s last remaining naturally conservative organizations by forcing the Boy Scouts to accept enough gays to completely destroy themselves should have been all the evidence needed to support that thesis. But the Senate has to confirm all picks, and they do have a history of preferring weakmen who can mouth all the legalisms.

    And the Secretary of State historically doesn’t smarm about saying ‘well we can’t do that, that’s ILLEGAL’, they say yes, then find ways to do something close to the thing they want to do within the legalities tolerated by other sovereign nations. Maybe a CEO can worry excessively about the letter of the law, but in that position, you’re the one making the diplomatic law, and an unwilligness to do so is indeed further evidence of a weak, feeble, and yes, beta character.

    “Trump was mad about the Paris climate accords for an inarticulated reason and lashed out”

    Apparently so did everybody in the streets of Paris. Trump seems to have better instincts on these things than most!

    “Knowing things helps to solve problems, tantrums are what 12 year olds do to solve problems.”

    12-year olds can force more action on solutions by being constantly annoying about the problems than many silent and compliant men will ever do in their whole lives. Trick is getting them to holler about the important things.

    Nicol (e8f48b)

  73. “for an inarticulated reason”

    I’d also like to add that this “we tried to engage but we couldn’t understand” is SUCH a managerial excuse, extremely typical of people who hold pointless meetings and send pointless emails and call it ‘engagement’ with perfect seriousness. If you had ever learned to take an up or down vote and accept the ‘no’ rather than constantly trying to ‘get to yes’ in fundamentally dishonest and underhanded ways then you might be able to engage with Deplorables without them inevitably holding a permanent vendetta against you and your institutions.

    Nicol (86e335)

  74. mr. donald trump the best president ever did not like mr. rex tillerson

    that is all you need to know

    if you love mr. donald trump the best president ever

    the way i love him

    more than hasenpfeffer on a bed of bratkartoffeln

    nk (dbc370)

  75. Knowing Tillersons agenda subsequent to his appointment is a clue:

    https://www.americanthinker.com/

    Narciso (d1f714)

  76. “Hmm, a basket of deplorables, maybe that was the single most accurate thing Hillary said in her entire life.”

    It’s certainly accurate that many on the left consider those who seek to preserve our freedoms and uphold our laws are deplorable.

    harkin (1161c2)

  77. Speaking of the crime family matriarch….

    “his [President Barack Obama’s] State and Justice Departments fell far short. So far short that the court questions, even now, whether they are acting in good faith. Did Hillary Clinton use her private email as Secretary of State to thwart this lofty goal [Obama announced standard for transparency]? Was the State Department’s attempt to settle this FOIA case in 2014 an effort to avoid searching – and disclosing the existence of – Clinton’s missing emails? And has State ever adequately searched for records in this case?

    At best, State’s attempt to pass-off its deficient search as legally adequate during settlement negotiations was negligence born out of incompetence. At worst, career employees in the State and Justice Departments colluded to scuttle public scrutiny of Clinton, skirt FOIA, and hoodwink this Court.

    __ _

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/judge-suggests-justice-state-colluded-to-protect-hillary-clinton-in-email-scandal

    harkin (1161c2)

  78. There was nothing to enforce. It only required writing periodic reports.

    Not only that, each country chose their own emissions goals, and those goals are voluntary and unenforceable, and they could change those goals at a whim. Trump could just as easily stayed in accords and changed our goals to “status quo” as our CO2 emissions are going down anyway. It was stupid of Trump to withdraw because he took away our leverage against the huge polluters like India and China. We could have conditioned trade and other agreements to their sticking by their Paris Accord goals, for example, but now we can’t do that. I doubt he spent more than ten minutes “learning” about the accords before coming to some very wrong conclusions.

    Paul Montagu (8afb2a)

  79. Just like that ‘voluntary’ carbon plan they voted down in your state

    Narciso (d1f714)

  80. Paul,

    the Accords as you so helpfully claim have no substance to them, are voluntary and unenforceable, so why stick to them? By doing so, you’re giving them unearned legitimacy and the power of a treaty that was never passed by the Senate. You are also giving the left an extremely useful tool for hurting American citizens when they gain power because people foolishly believe they aren’t that dangerous.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  81. Asked and answered, Rob: Leverage. We could’ve used our participation in the Accords to our advantage in negotiations on all kinds of matters, and which would hopefully raise the cost of doing business for India and China. As for when Democrats take over, they won’t need a Paris Accords to push their “clean” agenda, it’s already baked in.

    Paul Montagu (cbbfc4)

  82. Paul… participating in the Paris Accord would not create leverage. It was window dressing at best.

    At worst, it would be used as a justification for future unwanted changes and hand-waving your own country’s faults.

    The absolute best thing for the US to do, is to get out of that accord AND lead the world by our own very actions to reduce Co2.

    Countries don’t need an accord like this to make the changes themselves.

    whembly (d40ad5)

  83. this virtue signaling can get expensive:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46499996

    narciso (d1f714)

  84. Now that we’re out of the Accords, anytime that we bring up bad polluting behavior by any other country, we would just get laughed at and dismissed out of hand, because all a foreign leader would have to say is, “You have no business saying this when you won’t even voluntarily agree on emissions.” It’s ridiculous being a pariah on this subject when the cost of being in the Accords is minimal.

    Paul Montagu (cbbfc4)

  85. NJRob (4d595c) — 12/9/2018 @ 8:53 am Paul Montagu (cbbfc4) — 12/9/2018 @ 8:58 am
    whembly (d40ad5) — 12/9/2018 @ 9:09 am

    Voluntary, voluntary; one thing we all should know by now is, where socialism is concerned, what is voluntary today is required tomorrow. Let us not forget that there was substantial financing (read: redistribution of wealth) involved. Withdrawal not only diminished legitimacy of the accord, but constrained the opportunity to redistribute power as well.

    felipe (023cc9)

  86. except our carbon is lower than the prime countries, this is procrustean logic, montagu,

    narciso (d1f714)

  87. A pariah? Hahaha.

    Felipe, well said.

    NJRob (3a305f)

  88. Paul Montagu (cbbfc4) — 12/9/2018 @ 9:46 am

    Oh no! “laughed at?” Who cares? What, never done drugs, what could you know about it? What you used to be a drug addict? Hypocrite, get thee hence from me.”

    felipe (023cc9)

  89. Withdrawal not only diminished legitimacy of the accord, but constrained the opportunity to redistribute power as well.

    Except that, the world being what the world, withdrawing from the Accords and the Iran treaty merely diminished the legitimacy of what the US says in the world, and effectively redistributed power away from us.

    The UK is learning a similar lesson with Brexit. Being inside a bad system with some chance of control is better than being outside that system with no chance of control.

    kishnevi (bb03e6)

  90. the world couldn’t find a way to condemn hamas, with Brexit, germany wants to continue what it could not achieve by force of arms, in two wars, domination of the continent, and may agrees otherwise she wouldn’t have come up with this 39 billion pound ransom demand,

    narciso (d1f714)

  91. I understand what you say, and I would only add that legitimacy is a subjective condition; subject to membership. One need not be a slave to express opposition to slavery. it is fine with me if the slave cartel say to us; “mind your own business, you have no say.”

    felipe (023cc9)

  92. t is fine with me if the slave cartel say to us; “mind your own business, you have no say.”

    More likely is that the slave cartel says to us, “do what we say, you have no say”.

    kishnevi (bb03e6)

  93. may agrees otherwise she wouldn’t have come up with this 39 billion pound ransom demand,

    May is confronting the problem of having to deliver on utopian promises made by people who knew they would never be the ones set the task of delivering on the promises.

    kishnevi (bb03e6)

  94. Withdrawal not only diminished legitimacy of the accord, but constrained the opportunity to redistribute power as well.

    Except that, the world being what the world, withdrawing from the Accords and the Iran treaty merely diminished the legitimacy of what the US says in the world, and effectively redistributed power away from us.

    The UK is learning a similar lesson with Brexit. Being inside a bad system with some chance of control is better than being outside that system with no chance of control.

    kishnevi (bb03e6) — 12/9/2018 @ 9:59 am

    So the Soviet states were wrong to leave the Soviet Union and were diminished accordingly?

    Every nation needs the United States. Period. End stop.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  95. kishnevi (bb03e6) — 12/9/2018 @ 9:59 am

    It seems reasonable on the surface, but I bristle at the suggestion, and these are my words only, that change in the KKK is better accomplished as a member, than as an outsider. For even when change is effected, the mission remains. I, for one, am at odds with what I consider the real mission of the accord; the redistribution of wealth and power by central fiat rather than by free and independent cooperation.

    felipe (023cc9)

  96. kishnevi (bb03e6) — 12/9/2018 @ 10:13 am

    Yes, I agree.

    felipe (023cc9)

  97. that would be china, what price have they paid for the deal, it’s an extortion scheme mostly against the west, not surprising who created the eu infrastructure, an avowed infrastructure, Spinelli,

    narciso (d1f714)

  98. logic would dictate, if you want to keep the uk in the eu, for reasons unclear, they should pay, but that’s not the way a wet tory thinks,

    narciso (d1f714)

  99. So the Soviet states were wrong to leave the Soviet Union and were diminished accordingly?

    They were in a bad system with no chance of control (to continue the phraseology I used above).

    Every nation needs the United States. Period. End stop.

    Not so. There is no such thing as an indispensable nation. And the effect of Trump’s foreign policy is to make the US more dispensable, not less.

    kishnevi (bb03e6)

  100. narciso (d1f714) — 12/9/2018 @ 10:20 am

    And felipe smiled. (that’s a compliment to some – a curse to others!)

    felipe (023cc9)

  101. logic would dictate, if you want to keep the uk in the eu, for reasons unclear, they should pay, but that’s not the way a wet tory thinks,

    The real problem is that half the people of the UK think Brexit is a very bad idea, and half think Brexit is a very good idea.

    Brexit was premised on the idea that the UK is more important to Europe than Europe is to the UK. A very faulty premise.

    kishnevi (bb03e6)

  102. thanks felipe,

    https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2018/12/09/when-the-nyt-stumbles-they-really-stumble-nyt-piece-on-why-obamacare-enrollment-is-down-is-just-precious/

    if the us was not around, the west would have won world war 2, the cold war, or would they be speaking german, and Russian under duress?

    narciso (d1f714)

  103. yes, that portion lost, the problem is the nominally tory parliament, wants to ignore the people, just as they did with Obamacare,

    narciso (d1f714)

  104. kishnevi (bb03e6) — 12/9/2018 @ 10:24 am

    “Indispensable” is not what I took from the statement. I read it thus:

    Every nation needs [something from] the United States. Period. End stop.

    e.g.

    Paris: your signature, please
    Iran: your destruction!
    Canada: cheap medicine and timely doctors appointments.

    felipe (023cc9)

  105. 106
    Russia would have defeated the the Nazis, and then found it might be influential in Western Europe but did not have the reach to actually control anything outside Eastern Europe.

    kishnevi (bb03e6)

  106. except our carbon is lower than the prime countris, this is procrustean logic, montagu,

    It’s not. Only China cranks out more CO2 than us.

    the real mission of the accord; the redistribution of wealth and power by central fiat rather than by free and independent cooperation.

    Fear-mongering noted. Voluntary participation was as far as anyone wanted to go.

    Paul Montagu (cbbfc4)

  107. kishnevi (bb03e6) — 12/9/2018 @ 10:32 am

    That is so true, I believe Russia kicked Germany’s butt anyway and took half of Berlin – wasn’t there a race to get to Hitler?

    felipe (023cc9)

  108. (that’s a compliment to some – a curse to others!)

    Lest any one be offended, this is a paraphrase of a line uttered by Merlin in the movie Excalibur.

    “A dream to some – a nightmare for others!”

    felipe (023cc9)

  109. mr nk,

    Greetings from Beloit, WI, home of the Locked, Uncocked and Unloaded IYKWIMAITYD.

    My best hope is that all the bad cops in IL are at home now beating their wives after church.

    Pinandpuller (daa564)

  110. The Paris Accord are stupid. It was stupid for America to be in them. Trump pulling us out of them may be a case of blind hogs and acorns and stopped clocks twice a day, but it was the right thing to do.

    nk (dbc370)

  111. It’s a beautiful day, Pinandpuller. Drive carefully.

    nk (dbc370)

  112. I guess there was no one left to tell the tale.

    felipe (023cc9)

  113. i bet Jheff Fhlake and his disgustingly racist dog-killer family would tell the tale if you asked nicely

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  114. The Hawaiian Judge would have mandated our CO2 payments. It would take 5 years to get to the Supreme Court, by which time the payments would be ‘standard’.

    Ingot9455 (53079b)

  115. happyfeet (28a91b) — 12/9/2018 @ 12:24 pm

    Hmmm. The insertion of “h.” Is that feet-latin?

    felipe (023cc9)

  116. just feels right like the extraneous h in diarrhea

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  117. “Paul, the Accords as you so helpfully claim have no substance to them, are voluntary and unenforceable, so why stick to them?”

    For teh Virtue Signaling, of course…

    Colonel Haiku (af8791)

  118. 88… our emissions have been reduced, while those who signed have increased theirs. Seems like we’re doing much better than them, sans teh virtue signaling.

    Colonel Haiku (af8791)

  119. Another lovely day in Carmel-by-teh-Sea…

    Colonel Haiku (af8791)

  120. our emissions would be even lower if we didn’t have so many illegal head lice people doing carbon footprint all over everything

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  121. mr narciso

    My daughter turned me on to Cholula and I bought it at Wal Mart in Casper, WY.

    mr nk

    I made it through your lovely state in one shot. It is good to be back in the Free States of America where I can be judged by 12 Great Americans.

    I’m headed for Shapiro’s by the Indy Airport where I will be available to autograph sandwich wrappers and take pictures with fans.

    Pinandpuller (daa564)

  122. Breaking- CNN reports Nick Ayers says ‘thanks, but no thanks’- won’t take gig replacing Kelly as Trump’s Chief of Staff. Attention Fox News employees- y’all are still in the running.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  123. lol, pin

    remember power, who made the blood run red from Syria to north Africa, well she escapes accountability,

    narciso (d1f714)

  124. DCSCA @ 128. LOL Mrs. Ayers didn’t raise no fool after all.

    nk (dbc370)

  125. Leverage. We could’ve used our participation in the Accords to our advantage in negotiations on all kinds of matters, and which would hopefully raise the cost of doing business for India and China.

    Baloney. This is what “clever” people always say. It NEVER works out that way. People used to say the UK could get more by joining the EU and “cleverly” manipulating things for their own benefit. They said the USA should stay in the UN to “cleverly” manipulate things.

    None of this “cleverness” ever happens.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  126. At least Trump was gracious about it:

    I am in the process of interviewing some really great people for the position of White House Chief of Staff. Fake News has been saying with certainty it was Nick Ayers, a spectacular person who will always be with our #MAGA agenda. I will be making a decision soon!

    Which upset Jack Dorsey’s maggot farm (the trolls on Trump’s Twitter feed) no end.

    nk (dbc370)

  127. That is so true, I believe Russia kicked Germany’s butt anyway and took half of Berlin – wasn’t there a race to get to Hitler?

    That sort of speculation would need to factor out the big contribution in arms and machinery we made to the Soviets, and the effect of the three fronts–North Africa, Italy, Normandy–which the US operated against the Germans while Russia was fighting in the East. There is also the question of Japan and Asia.

    But I think it would have been a much longer much bloodier slog that would end in an impoverished Soviet Union looking at a devestated Europe, too weak to control whatever happened west of the Rhine.

    If you doubt it, remember Aleksandr I was able to organize the Empire in 1813 to successfully support a campaign that eventually reached Paris after defeating Napoleon in Germany. Austria, Prussia, Sweden, and the UK helped, especially after Aleksandr got his forces into Germany…but the effort and leadership was mostly Aleksandr.

    Kishnevi (ad994a)

  128. Why do you assume the quote was a comment on Trump? It wasn’t. It was a swipe at the people who voted for him. Read it again. No, it’s not hard.
    BTW, I read Tillerson’s comment as a swipe aimed at all sides, both Maga and #resistance.

    Kishnevi (ad994a)

  129. Without lend lease Russia runs out of supplies pretty quickly the German make it either the Caucasus or run over the Brits in Egypt and seize the big prize.

    Narciso (d1f714)

  130. The Germans would run out of supplies too. The push to the Caucasus was essentially an effort to reach the oil fields.

    And the big prize was not so big. Remember that the Brits established their empire before they took over the Canal (which started out as a French enterprise).

    Kishnevi (7c118c)

  131. The big prize being the Saudi oil fields, any ways pretend that without the us it would have ended better for any decent party involved. That’s just fantasy.

    Narciso (d1f714)

  132. Three quick things:

    If you want deli at the Indy airport your ticket needs to read ‘Sky West’ not ‘Now Serving Number 12.’

    I was going 85 on I65 S in KY when a KY State Patrol passed me to pull over a guy laying up in the left lane. Conclusion: God hates those people as much as I do.

    I made it home safe. Someone killed the fatted kangaroo rat and left it on the back porch but I’m almost certain that’s not Kosher.

    Pinandpuller (7120e8)

  133. mr kishnevi

    A Basket of Dispensibles?

    Pinandpuller (7120e8)

  134. “In launching their now successful protests against President Emmanuel Macron’s gas hike, the French gilets jaunes (yellow jackets) have revived their country’s reputation for rebelling against monarchial rule. It may well foreshadow a bitter, albeit largely avoidable, battle over how to address the issue of climate change.

    Macron’s approach may have made him a favorite of editorial writers, who see him as the new “sun king,” but he is far more disliked by his own people than Trump is by Americans. The new French rebellion parallels the revolutionary resentments that ultimately overthrew aristocratic and clerical privilege that allowed them to live in splendor while the Third Estate, the middle class, suffered.

    Macron’s policies rest on the notion on-going climate catastrophe embraced by media, the academy and the intelligentsia. Every time weather takes a nasty turn as it often does — heat waves, downpours, forest fires, floods — it’s often attributed to climate change.

    This leads to the notion that we need to embrace climate “hysteria,” as one New York Times reporter suggested recently. This does not seem the best basis to create an enduring and workable policy. Like other pressing issues, environmental concerns need to be addressed in a rational and equitable manner. The mainstream media has become the biggest obstacle here, as evidenced by coverage of a recent report suggesting a huge economic hit from climate change. As President Obama’s undersecretary of energy for science, physicist Steven Koonin, suggests, these projections reflected only highly improbable worse case scenarios based on such things as ever growing coal usage and no significant technological improvement.

    Who pays for environmental virtue?

    The gilets jaune revolt begs the issue: who pays to save the planet? The Paris accords absolved the very countries driving emission increases — China and India — from mandating emissions cuts until 2030, leaving the burden largely on the backs of the West’s own middle and working classes.

    Yet many of these people need fossil fuels to get to work or operate their businesses. Tourists may gape at the high-speed trains and the Paris Metro, but the vast majority get to work in cars. More than 80 percent of the Paris metropolitan area population lives in the suburbs and exurbs, in an area nearly the size of Connecticut and Rhode Island combined.

    Like the revolutionaries of 1789, people are enraged by the hypocrisy of their betters. In pre-revolutionary times, French aristocrats and top clerics preached Christian charity while indulging in gluttony, sexual adventurism and lavish spending. Today they see the well-off and well-connected buying their modern version of indulgences through carbon credits and other virtue-signaling devices. Meanwhile, as many as 30 percent of Germans and as many as half of Greeks are spending 10 percent or more of their income on energy, the definition of “energy poverty.” This is occurring while these policies prove sadly ineffective in reducing emissions while the much disdained US leads the large countries in cuts”

    https://www.ocregister.com/2018/12/09/the-first-shots-in-the-climate-wars/

    Colonel Haiku (af8791)

Leave a Reply

Comment moderation is enabled. Your comment may take some time to appear.


Powered by WordPress.

Page loaded in: 0.4515 secs.