Bush Funeral Open Thread [Updated]
[guest post by JVW]
I forgot how much I like former Canadian PM Brian Mulroney. I remember his excellent eulogy at Ronald Reagan’s funeral, and he’s doing a bang-up job right now. He even had a very gracious shout-out to President Trump when he mentioned that NAFTA had been improved upon by subsequent administrations.
Jenna Hager Bush is just a lovely and graceful woman. There was a nice moment when she was doing her reading and the camera focused on her father, who had a look of tremendous pride on his face.
Please feel free to add your observations.
UPDATE: Here is the great eulogy from 43.
– JVW
Since Mrs. Thatcher is no longer with us, I assume that Mr. Mulroney will have to suffice for world leaders of President Bush’s era.
JVW (42615e) — 12/5/2018 @ 9:01 am“There are wooden ships, there are sailing ships, there are ships that sail the sea. But the best ships are friendships, and may they always be.”
oh man
happyfeet (28a91b) — 12/5/2018 @ 9:14 amRonan Tynan, the Irish tenor, is having problems buttoning his suit jacket over his gut. I can relate, brother.
JVW (42615e) — 12/5/2018 @ 9:16 amBrian Mulroney, Canadian election night all those years ago. Dancing a jig onstage and kicking those balloons around like a happy kid. You knew those guys were grownups, so once in a while that happy boys could show up.
Rock Bottom (5a4596) — 12/5/2018 @ 9:18 am“The idea is to die young, as late as possible.” Great line.
JVW (42615e) — 12/5/2018 @ 9:19 amGod, Bill Clinton looks worse and worse every time I see him. Do you suppose he’s suffering from some malady that they aren’t disclosing? He’s only 72.
JVW (42615e) — 12/5/2018 @ 9:22 amI was pleasantly surprised that the Bohemian Rhapsody film did not have any subtle digs at the Iron Lady.
urbanleftbehind (380f76) — 12/5/2018 @ 9:28 amBill is lucky he doesn’t poof out like Al Capone.
I love Justice Clarence Thomas.
mg (ebf6c2) — 12/5/2018 @ 9:28 amThank You, Mr. President.
I’m not a big fan of clapping for a eulogy, but if it were ever appropriate, George W. Bush’s eulogy was deserving.
JVW (42615e) — 12/5/2018 @ 9:31 amBill is lucky he doesn’t poof out like Al Capone.
Zing!
Someone needs to tell him (because you know Hillary won’t) that sitting with your mouth agape makes you look senile.
JVW (42615e) — 12/5/2018 @ 9:33 amMikhail Gorbachev issued a very gracious statement last weekend, but I imagine travel to the funeral would be difficult for him at age 87.
When Gorbachev passes, I imagine his funeral will be quite the event too.
Dave (1bb933) — 12/5/2018 @ 9:40 amWhen Gorbachev passes, I imagine his funeral will be quite the event too.
Probably not if Putin has anything to say about it.
JVW (42615e) — 12/5/2018 @ 9:45 amHmmm, do you think that George H.W. Bush picked out this pop song himself? I mean, it’s a good song, but it doesn’t really scream Greatest Generation, does it?
JVW (42615e) — 12/5/2018 @ 9:51 amTrump is the only Episcopalian among the ex-Presidents, yet he is also the only one who didn’t join in reciting the creed. Curious.
JVW (42615e) — 12/5/2018 @ 9:53 amall right let’s see which of the Bushes has to cheat and look at the words of the Apostles Creed.
JRH (f51cae) — 12/5/2018 @ 9:53 amah jinx on the creed comment. Funny that Trump didn’t even try.
JRH (f51cae) — 12/5/2018 @ 9:56 amOne can truly believe in God without all the prayers.
mg (ebf6c2) — 12/5/2018 @ 9:59 amGeorge W is now a Methodist and Jeb has converted to Catholicism, so I’ll give them a break on not knowing it.
JVW (42615e) — 12/5/2018 @ 9:59 amHe’s waiting for his little cracker.
Dave (1bb933) — 12/5/2018 @ 10:06 amThe servicemen carrying the casket was stunning.
JRH (f51cae) — 12/5/2018 @ 10:12 amColor commentary on a funeral. Spectator sports have too much of an influence on our culture.
But just out of curiosity … what was the pop song? 😉
nk (dbc370) — 12/5/2018 @ 10:20 amThe servicemen carrying the casket was stunning.
Wonder if it’s the same honor guard they have been using since the lying in state on Monday. They are obviously very impressive.
JVW (42615e) — 12/5/2018 @ 10:21 amColor commentary on a funeral.
From us or the networks? I made the good decision to watch on C-SPAN, so I am blessedly free of any network commentary.
JVW (42615e) — 12/5/2018 @ 10:22 amJVW (42615e) — 12/5/2018 @ 9:59 am
All Catholics are taught the Apostles creed as well as the Nicene Creed.
felipe (5b25e2) — 12/5/2018 @ 10:24 amhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=IDtvtJxsbuc
Felipe and others, I think you’d appreciate this. Beautifully done.
NJRob (4d595c) — 12/5/2018 @ 10:25 amIt’s not the same honor guard every time, unless one of them got a serious suntan since Monday…
Dave (1bb933) — 12/5/2018 @ 10:25 amBut just out of curiosity … what was the pop song?
Apparently it is called “Friends.” Don’t know who wrote it, and I don’t recall having ever heard it before. But I do know it is far superior to a reworking of “Candle in the Wind” as far as funeral pop songs go.
JVW (42615e) — 12/5/2018 @ 10:26 amAll Catholics are taught the Apostles creed as well as the Nicene Creed.
There are slight differences, though. Especially in the new liturgy that came into effect six or seven years ago.
JVW (42615e) — 12/5/2018 @ 10:27 amThe cathedral bells ringing is really very beautiful.
JVW (42615e) — 12/5/2018 @ 10:29 amThe ceremonial units of all the services are a special elite with no other duties except to look perfect.
nk (dbc370) — 12/5/2018 @ 10:31 amDoesn’t anybody know Brian Mulrooney was corrupt?
https://www.amazon.com/Take-Crime-Corruption-Greed-Mulroney/dp/0770427081 From the Amazon description of the book:
Sammy Finkelman (102c75) — 12/5/2018 @ 10:34 am“Someone needs to tell him (because you know Hillary won’t) that sitting with your mouth agape makes you look senile.”
A little known medical fact is that this malady is a result of teh repeated biting of one’s lower lip.
Colonel Haiku (5b7649) — 12/5/2018 @ 10:36 amDoesn’t anybody know Brian Mulrooney was corrupt?
We do know, Sammy. But George H.W. Bush was friends with Don Rostenkowski, who also was notoriously corrupt, and he famously became friends with Bill Clinton, who takes sleaze to new levels. George H.W. Bush reminds us that there is humanity among the fallen sinner, a lesson that we should all learn even as we joyfully ridicule those who fall short of our expectations.
JVW (42615e) — 12/5/2018 @ 10:39 amit is called “Friends.” Don’t know who wrote it
Michael W. Smith, a friend of GHW Bush. Friends (are friends forever).
nk (dbc370) — 12/5/2018 @ 10:39 am“All Catholics are taught the Apostles creed as well as the Nicene Creed”
How about teh Apollo Creed?
Colonel Haiku (5b7649) — 12/5/2018 @ 10:41 amThe problem with George Herbert Walker Bush was that, although a well-intentioned man, he was incompetent. As Bob Dole said, he had a resume, not a record. I thoughthe was stupid from the time he wsas Ambassador to the United Nations. he had no idea of the evil of the Mao regime.I mean he really had no idea.
He showed his incomptence time after time after time. I don’t think GHWB understood much. If you claim he made a good decision occasionally I would say that was only because he was going with the flow. he intervened with Kuwait onlyt after Margeret Thatcher said to him not to be wobbly.
He lost the 1992 election because he had directed that no negatve information was about Bill Clinton wass to be looked at by his campaign.he never understood how the Democrats were using the words “out-of-the-loop” with a different meaning than what it had in 1986. and was picking Dan Quayle a wise choice? He rose to be president in spite of his incompetence.
Sammy Finkelman (102c75) — 12/5/2018 @ 10:41 am33. George HW Bush did not know that Bill Clinton was a sinner.
Sammy Finkelman (102c75) — 12/5/2018 @ 10:42 amHow about Kissinger or scowcroft, my view is the China card was less valuable then what it enabled being the Khmer rouge takeover.
Narciso (d1f714) — 12/5/2018 @ 10:43 amIt was a good service, on balance,
Narciso (d1f714) — 12/5/2018 @ 10:45 amI am just glad that the day has not yet come when Jimmy Carter gets a funeral. It’ll be full of lies.
Sammy Finkelman (102c75) — 12/5/2018 @ 10:45 amBeautiful eulogy. Just beautiful. Especially loved W noting that his father valued character over pedigree.
Dana (023079) — 12/5/2018 @ 10:47 amWhat was really bad regarding the Khmer Rouge is that the United States enabled it – and later in 1977 Jimmy Carter stopped Thialnd from invading Cambodia.
Then, for tenn years after Hanoi destropyed tyhe Pol Pot regime, (being evil they were disssuadable by the United States) the United States maintained an opposition to the overthrow of Pol Pot, and voted with China to give it a vote in the United Nations starting when carter wss president
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1980/09/16/us-to-support-pol-pot-regime-for-un-seat/58b8b124-7dd7-448f-b4f7-80231683ec57/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.170eee076e97
but continuing through the Reagan Administration.
The war was ended dutring the Bush Adminsitration.
http://articles.latimes.com/1991-10-24/news/mn-299_1_peace-treaty
https://www.culturalsurvival.org/publications/cultural-survival-quarterly/diplomatic-dance-cambodia-international-stage
September 1990
So there could be ne thing Bush did, although it was probably reallyZ ajmes Baker.
. A minor war was fought for that vote.
I am niot sure what stopped it.
Sammy Finkelman (102c75) — 12/5/2018 @ 10:55 amHow about teh Apollo Creed?
They call it The Hippocratic Oath. Look it up if you don’t believe me.
nk (dbc370) — 12/5/2018 @ 10:56 amNJRob (4d595c) — 12/5/2018 @ 10:25 am
Thanks, that was beautiful. Several people came running over because they recognized it.
felipe (5b25e2) — 12/5/2018 @ 11:02 amGuaranteed Carters funeral will be a Wellstone moment.
mg (ebf6c2) — 12/5/2018 @ 11:02 amColonel Haiku (5b7649) — 12/5/2018 @ 10:41 am
Heh. Don’t worry, colonel, nk knows about the other Apollo Creed.
felipe (5b25e2) — 12/5/2018 @ 11:08 amDidn’t he sing “Ain’t No Sunshine When She’s Gone”?
nk (dbc370) — 12/5/2018 @ 11:15 am“Even then, their bias tilted left, although their double standard has reached new depths in recent years. I believe the press corps’ lapdog approach to Barack Obama and attack-dog approach to Trump are part of why Americans have become so polarized.
Indeed, many Trump voters explain their support for him as a reaction to left-wing press bias and the failure of other Republicans to fight back the way Trump does.
The heydays of press hatred for Bush and McCain came during their presidential campaigns. Long before they were saluted for their late-in-life stances against Trump, Bush 41 and McCain were declared unfit to be president.
The New York Times, which last endorsed a Republican for president in 1956, backed the hapless Michael Dukakis over Bush in 1988, and Bush went on to win in a landslide, picking up more than 53 percent of the popular vote and 426 electoral votes.
Four years later, the paper supported Bill Clinton, ripping Bush’s economic management as “exasperating” and his positions on individual rights as “infuriating.” It accused him of stoking racial resentment, of going to “radical extremes” in supporting right-to-life measures, and said his “capacity to govern has collapsed.”
When Bush nominated Clarence Thomas to the Supreme Court in 1991, he and Thomas got the same kind of character smearing that Trump and Brett Kavanaugh got this year.
Now, in his coffin, Bush is a model of American greatness.
https://nypost.com/2018/12/04/democrats-really-do-love-republicans-when-theyre-dead/
harkin (fbc353) — 12/5/2018 @ 11:23 amYes they cheered him for breaking his tax pledge, which they beat him upside the head for it, for downplaying Reagan’s policy that got him there.
narciso (d1f714) — 12/5/2018 @ 11:27 amI was busy working, but my wife watched and recorded it and says I must watch it and she’s thrown down a challenge that says I won’t be able to hold back tears at the end.
Colonel Haiku (5b7649) — 12/5/2018 @ 11:30 amHe was a good man and they took advantages of his good will, which was not reciprocated.
https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/scott-whitlock/2018/12/05/nasty-nbc-uses-bush-funeral-bash-dan-quayle-hardly-best
narciso (d1f714) — 12/5/2018 @ 11:33 amOne last mission; our Captain was schooled today by a naval aviator and his family.
This is how it is done, Donald.
CAVU forever, Mr. Bush.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 12/5/2018 @ 12:53 pm. . . she’s thrown down a challenge that says I won’t be able to hold back tears at the end.
It’s tough, but now that you know it’s coming you might be able to fight off the sniffles.
JVW (42615e) — 12/5/2018 @ 1:01 pmEspecially loved W noting that his father valued character over pedigree.
You not supposed to ever have to say this about anybody, not in America
happyfeet (28a91b) — 12/5/2018 @ 1:07 pmI somehow never had Col. Haiku pegged as a sentimentalist.
Dave (1bb933) — 12/5/2018 @ 1:09 pmso gate 41 at IAH is closed today
that really brings it home
happyfeet (28a91b) — 12/5/2018 @ 1:30 pmWonderful ceremony, not a false note, not one hokey nod to our wokey new age. It struck me as an assertion of the beauty and grandeur of our tradition and civilization, too, if that is not stretching it too far. Also loved Jenna’s reading. Wonder which version of the bible it was.
I too am surprised Bill Clinton is still with us. They both got old fast.
Patricia (3363ec) — 12/5/2018 @ 1:36 pmSo long as it’s not LAX, happyfeet
mg (ef2c8e) — 12/5/2018 @ 1:40 pmPresident Bush was not the first, nor will be the last, to misunderestimate the nature and pervasiveness of evil. Incredible irony that he nearly gave his life to fight it.
I met him very briefly when he was Vice-President. He was visiting a local dignitary who happened to live across the street from my best friend. When he emerged from the house, there were about 10 of us who broke into applause of respect and approval. Instead if just giving us a friendly wave, and to the consternation of the Secret Service protectors, he walked out around his armored vehicle and across the residential street to shake our hands in gratitude and thanks.
That’s the man I heard described today. RIP, patriot.
Ed from SFV (6d42fa) — 12/5/2018 @ 2:03 pmCan’t be helped apparently
Narciso (d1f714) — 12/5/2018 @ 2:15 pmhttps://pjmedia.com/video/montage-liberal-media-figures-use-george-h-w-bush-to-attack-donald-trump/
that’s exactly the same thing they did at mccain’s multiple hate-fests
happyfeet (28a91b) — 12/5/2018 @ 2:36 pmColor commentary on a funeral.
From us or the networks? I made the good decision to watch on C-SPAN, so I am blessedly free of any network commentary.
JVW (42615e) — 12/5/2018 @ 10:22 am
Amen. I am about to watch it on C-span now, since I have a few hours to devote to this. I cringe at the thought of color commentary from a network.
felipe (023cc9) — 12/5/2018 @ 3:00 pmyes, felipe they think the event is about them not the departed, of course they have to relate their own insights, like bush sr. was ‘brave’ to commit seppuku breaking the tax pledge, metaphorically speaking,
narciso (d1f714) — 12/5/2018 @ 3:16 pmSad to see bush go. willie
willie horton (582454) — 12/5/2018 @ 3:28 pmDid anyone catch Hillary’s face when Trump sat down? Chiseled stone, looking straight ahead while Bill greeted Melania and Trump.
Kevin M (a57144) — 12/5/2018 @ 3:35 pmhillary would be in jail if the dirty corrupt men and women of the sleazy Comey FBI hadn’t covered up a ton of evidence
happyfeet (28a91b) — 12/5/2018 @ 3:40 pmWhy wasn’t I invited ?
willie horton (582454) — 12/5/2018 @ 3:44 pmone thing that was an improvement over the royal wedding, was there was some genuine religious content to the sermons,
narciso (d1f714) — 12/5/2018 @ 3:45 pmI know there were different events, but one served the function better,
narciso (d1f714) — 12/5/2018 @ 3:49 pmdo half-wit unemployed dole-dependent dirty british people wearing ridiculous hats getting perfunctorily married so they can breed a new generation of useless trash really have any particularly compelling rationale for invoking the sacred?
happyfeet (28a91b) — 12/5/2018 @ 3:56 pmThis is how a narcissistic con man rolls: He goes on Hannity a couple of times during the campaign and says he’ll balance the budget fairly quickly. Because Hannity only lobs softball questions to Trump, he doesn’t ask how the candidate would do this and Hannity asks for no details. He just head-nodded like the good, loyal doggie that he is. Give him a biscuit.
A year ago, Trump proposed–and got passed–a tax bill that would add almost $2 trillion to the national debt by 2028. So while Trump’s actions have well communicated that he doesn’t give a rip about the national debt, his own words say it as well.
The GOP handcuffed Obama on spending by employing the sequester, but there isn’t any fiscal conservatism in my party right now, at least none that I can see, just some clunky form of Buchananesque paleo-something-or-other. And the administration will just kick that can down the road.
Paul Montagu (7735b8) — 12/5/2018 @ 4:16 pmno montagu, the gop gave him the tools to slash defense budget, just like he promised the ploughshares group to win their endorsement in 2008
narciso (d1f714) — 12/5/2018 @ 4:19 pmColonel, how far did you make it before shedding a tear? I lost it at the end of W’s talk. It reminded me of my feelings for my own father.
felipe (023cc9) — 12/5/2018 @ 4:20 pmthe segment in question:
https://dailycaller.com/2018/12/05/george-w-bush-eulogy-george-h-w-bush/
narciso (d1f714) — 12/5/2018 @ 4:26 pm73… haven’t done it yet, felipe, just wrapping up work day. But I had the arrival in Houston and the casket being wheeled into that magnificent church on in the background and let’s just say I am going to lose the bet when I watch that recording.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 12/5/2018 @ 4:52 pmI might have gotten ahead of myself but it is an affecting moment.
Narciso (d1f714) — 12/5/2018 @ 4:56 pmI saw GW Bush while spinning on an elliptical. Very moving. My eyes watered because, through the humor and the memories and the tears, you could see how much he loved and honored his dad.
Paul Montagu (7735b8) — 12/5/2018 @ 5:07 pmhe didn’t seem nearly as worked up when his mom died
happyfeet (28a91b) — 12/5/2018 @ 5:18 pmMy impression is that most people respected GBush Sr because of how he was a person, not because of anything he actually did as POTUS. Among the surviving group of exPresidents, it is probably only his son of whom the same could be said. Which reflects some more good on the father.
Kishnevi (53ba3f) — 12/5/2018 @ 5:20 pmBTW
Kishnevi (53ba3f) — 12/5/2018 @ 5:28 pmIf you want a good piece of Christmas-suitable music put B07GVZLS2R into Patterico’s Amazon search box and order the result. What Men Live By is based on a Tolstoy story (not the story which provided the title: Martinu had a waggish sense of humor), a bit under 40 minutes long, and performed in English–at the time Martinu was one of many European musicians who found refuge in the US from WWII, so he wrote it with American audiences in mind. The story has nothing to do with the holiday of Christmas but a lot to do with the spirit of Christmas.
oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell
oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell
oh, the place is full of queers, navigators, bombardiers
but there are no fighter pilots down in hell
oh, there are no bomber pilots in the fray
oh, there are no bomber pilots in the fray
they are in the USOs wearing women’s fancy clothes
there are no bomber pilots in the fray
oh, there are no fighter pilots up in wing
oh, there are no fighter pilots up in wing
the place is full of brass, sitting ’round on their fat a$$
there are no fighter pilots up in wing
oh, there are no fighter pilots in the states
nk (dbc370) — 12/5/2018 @ 5:36 pmoh, there are no fighter pilots in the states
there are pansies with bone spurs, chasing after dirty w–res
but there are no fighter pilots in the states
81 are you talking about dubya or romney or maybe bubba?
willie horton (809cfd) — 12/5/2018 @ 5:42 pmAhm talkin’ ’bout yo mama, fool. She da dirty ho.
nk (dbc370) — 12/5/2018 @ 5:54 pm@79. This likely isn’t the day to banter about his record but a lot happened on his four year watch overseas; put his experience to good use and worked his diplomatic Rolodex very well. Among other events, managing the end of the Cold War as the Berlin Wall crumbled, the Soviet Union dissolved and Germany reunified. No end zone dances or gloating as the world quickly transitioned into new era. The assembly of the coalition for the Gulf War was managed well, too. But those distant cries for a ‘peace dividend’ at the time even made him chuckle.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 12/5/2018 @ 5:55 pmnk, were you a fighter pilot? Asking for my old man.
JSkorcher (2df7a9) — 12/5/2018 @ 5:57 pmNo. It’s a song (I think from the Korean War) that I read about a long time ago.
nk (dbc370) — 12/5/2018 @ 6:03 pmIt’s a pattern after before world war 2 thanks to the washington naval convention and other agreements we had a token force, we had aggressively downsized force by the time of Korea,
Narciso (d1f714) — 12/5/2018 @ 6:04 pmK…’cause Dad’s still pissed about getting strafed in the Philippines.
JSkorcher (2df7a9) — 12/5/2018 @ 6:07 pmGreat eulogy by Bush. Well run, classy funeral.
Unlike McCain’s which was a Nevertrumper pep rally.
rcocean (1a839e) — 12/5/2018 @ 6:10 pmBill Clinton looks 10 years older then George W.
Guess that’s what debauchery does to you.
And Big Macs.
rcocean (1a839e) — 12/5/2018 @ 6:18 pmIts always annoying when people called Bush or McCain “fighter pilots”
McCain flew a one man jet bomber. Bush flew and an Avenger which had at least 2-3 crewmen (none of whom survived being shot down)
rcocean (1a839e) — 12/5/2018 @ 6:21 pmIts shorthand the dauntless was the fighter configuration, I think McCain flew the sky raider
Narciso (d1f714) — 12/5/2018 @ 6:23 pmBilly Jeff may yet find his Felix Faure moment
Kishnevi (8c03ee) — 12/5/2018 @ 6:32 pmhttp://deathaday.blogspot.com/2008/02/february-16-flix-faure.html
Guess that’s what debauchery does to you.
And Big Macs.
It’s what loss of ventricular function from a heart attack does to you.
And statins.
nk (dbc370) — 12/5/2018 @ 6:33 pmrcocean is right. We don’t need to revise GHWB’s military record. It’s good enough on its own. The song is inappropriate for this thread. I should have checked before I posted it.
nk (dbc370) — 12/5/2018 @ 6:37 pmI remarked on the last line in ‘toko ri’ based on micheners report about the boxer and other carriers deployed off the Korean coast.
Narciso (d1f714) — 12/5/2018 @ 6:43 pmNot invited; Ross Perot. Cannot help but think had Bush Sr. adopted Perot’s policies on trade, immigration and debt he would have easily won a 2nd term. And neither Clinton or Obama ever get anywhere near the White House.
I understand that there were probably personal reasons for the hard feelings between these 2 Texans that we may never know about. But always found it odd the Bushes never had a cross word for the Dems and liberals who have savaged them forever. Perot, on the other hand, gets no quarter. And in Clinton’s case, became very good friends with him. That friendship may be a good thing.But the one thing President Trump got very right is not bothering to curry the favor of people who will hate you and try to destroy you every chance they get.
Bugg (024e40) — 12/5/2018 @ 6:48 pmWonder where Reagan’s children were?
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 12/5/2018 @ 6:50 pmThe third rail, it took 25 years before that became the popular consensus not the elite which the press obfuscates.
Narciso (d1f714) — 12/5/2018 @ 6:52 pmYou were a damned good hitter, Willie Horton and my favorite Detroit Tiger.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 12/5/2018 @ 6:55 pmBill Clinton is the same age as Bush, Jr., , Donald Trump and Keith Richards. Other roughly the same age guys-Sammy Hagar, Tom Seaver, Gale Sayers, Roger Daltrey and Robert Plant. Clinton at this point is the frailest of the bunch, and about as cadaverous as Mr. Richards.
Jump to your own conclusions about ever malady Mr.Clinton now suffers.
Bugg (024e40) — 12/5/2018 @ 6:58 pmDo you know Perot was not invited? Or just not there. He is 88, and he looked like he was 88 in 1992.
BTW, the story about the gas tax protests in France reminded me that he thought European gasoline taxes were wonderful and he wanted an additional $0.50/gallon tax on gasoline here.
nk (dbc370) — 12/5/2018 @ 6:59 pmThat’s when Amoco premium was $1.40/gal.
nk (dbc370) — 12/5/2018 @ 7:01 pmKathy Griffin
@kathygriffin
HILLARY DIDN’T EVEN LOOK AT HIM
I LOVE HER
__ _
John Ekdahl
harkin (fbc353) — 12/5/2018 @ 7:04 pm@JohnEkdahl
Was he dressed up as Wisconsin?
The SBD Dauntless was a dive bomber, and a completely different model of plane than what Bush flew.
WWII carrier planes:
F2A – Brewster Buffalo, obsolete fighter at the start of the war, hopelessly outclassed, pilots called them “Flying Coffins”
F4F – Wildcat, replacement for the Buffalo, frontline carrier fighter for the first half of the war
F6F – Hellcat, replacement for the Wildcat, frontline carrier fighter for the second half of the war
F4U – Corsair, late-war fighter, saw more service as a land-based fighter (Pappy Boyington’s plane)
SB2U – Vindicator, obsolete dive-bomber at the start of the war, pilots called them “Wind Indicators”
SBD – Dauntless, dive-bomber, sank the Japanese carriers at Coral Sea and Midway
SB2C – Helldiver, late-war replacement for the Dauntless
TBD – Devastator, obsolete pre-war torpedo bomber; 41 were launched against the Japanese fleet at Midway, 6 made it back. Of the 30 TBD aircrew from the USS Hornet, only one man survived. No hits were achieved.
Dave (1bb933) — 12/5/2018 @ 7:09 pmTBF/TBM – Avenger, replacement for the Devastator, flown by GHWB
Hah! Mine too!
I got his autograph sometime around 1970.
Dave (1bb933) — 12/5/2018 @ 7:15 pma tax bill that would add almost $2 trillion to the national debt by 2028.
Assuming nothing at all changed, like people giving up fishing and coming back to work because they don’t get taxed so highly. Static analysis is ALWAYS wrong, the only variables sign and magnitude.
Kevin M (a57144) — 12/5/2018 @ 7:15 pmBTW, I will pay about $5K MORE in taxes under Trump’s “tax cut”, since I sold a house in CA and the excess cap gains are taxed as regular income in CA and not deductible any more. But I still don’t like BS criticism when real criticism will do.
Kevin M (a57144) — 12/5/2018 @ 7:18 pm101… the big difference between Bill Clinton and Keef Richards is Keef can’t be killed with conventional weapons…
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 12/5/2018 @ 7:46 pmAssuming nothing at all changed, like people giving up fishing and coming back to work because they don’t get taxed so highly. Static analysis is ALWAYS wrong, the only variables sign and magnitude.
Thing is, the people who might be most likely to “give up fishing” and re-enter the job market are not the ones who will be taxed less. They are like you, with a higher tax bill, or like you, with a tax bill that’s higher, or like me, with a tax bill that’s about the same under the new bill.
George Bush Jr lowered my taxes. Trump has not.
Kishnevi (42c62a) — 12/5/2018 @ 7:48 pmUPDATE: It’s way too late, but I added the eulogy from President 43.
JVW (42615e) — 12/5/2018 @ 8:14 pmIt’s not, it was one of the real genuine moments
Narciso (d1f714) — 12/5/2018 @ 8:17 pm“Trump is the only Episcopalian among the ex-Presidents, yet he is also the only one who didn’t join in reciting the creed. Curious.”
JVW (42615e) — 12/5/2018 @ 9:53 am
Heck, even those pedophile priests know it by heart in English, Greek and Latin. What gives?
Munroe (443afa) — 12/5/2018 @ 9:05 pmAl Kaline
mg (b4b72a) — 12/5/2018 @ 9:41 pmMcCain flew in combat and Bush 41 flew in combat. Bush 43 didn’t, but doesn’t take away from his service nor his words today.
Paul Montagu (6a98e9) — 12/5/2018 @ 9:52 pmHeck, even those pedophile priests know it by heart in English, Greek and Latin. What gives?
My experience with outdoor drunks is that they know the AA program better than most people in AA.
Kevin M (a57144) — 12/5/2018 @ 11:08 pmMcCain flew an F4 Phantom, which was certainly a fighter plane. In Viet Nam it mostly launched bombs or missile since there was no air force to fight. But it was still a fighter. Bush Sr flew a torpedo bomber in airspace where there WERE enemy fighters, and good ones, so it’s not misplaced. W flew a fighter, but not in a war zone. I give Sr the edge here.
Kevin M (a57144) — 12/5/2018 @ 11:12 pmMy mom was secretary for an executive who had season tickets to entertain clients, and he sometimes didn’t need them on weekends, so we got to go to a fair amount of games in the early 70’s.
Mickey Lolich was my Tigers idol after Horton.
Because Lolich was a southpaw and I HAD to be just like him, I begged for, and eventually received, a Mickey Lolich signature edition glove and taught myself to throw left-handed. Used that glove until it was held together by shoelaces…
🙂
Dave (1bb933) — 12/5/2018 @ 11:25 pmMcCain flew the A-4 Skyhawk (a strike craft, not a fighter) in ‘Nam. He probably flew/trained on other models, but a quick search didn’t find any mention of the F-4.
Dave (1bb933) — 12/5/2018 @ 11:30 pmDubya was the only fighter pilot of the three.
Dave (1bb933) — 12/5/2018 @ 11:34 pm“TBD – Devastator, obsolete pre-war torpedo bomber; 41 were launched against the Japanese fleet at Midway, 6 made it back. Of the 30 TBD aircrew from the USS Hornet, only one man survived. No hits were achieved.”
No hits (by bomb or torpedo) were achieved by any plane from the Hornet at Midway.
Can’t recommend this enough:
http://www.troynovant.com/Franson/Parshall-Tully/Shattered-Sword.html
harkin (fbc353) — 12/5/2018 @ 11:55 pmCol:
As the meme goes, what kind of world are we leaving for Mr. Walking Death, Keith Richards?
Bugg (9f6506) — 12/6/2018 @ 4:08 amlol… one populated by the other indestructible… the cockroach.
Colonel Haiku (5b7649) — 12/6/2018 @ 4:38 amDoubling on the cowbell:
https://mobile.twitter.com/JordanSchachtel/status/1070518943599812609?p=v
narciso (d1f714) — 12/6/2018 @ 5:53 amHmm. Did Armenians settle in California because they can pass as Latins, and Latins in Lake County because they can pass as Armenians?
nk (dbc370) — 12/6/2018 @ 5:56 amWhere was cher originally from?
Narciso (d1f714) — 12/6/2018 @ 6:00 am125, you know your regional stuff, nk! Filipinos follow the Latins so that the Latins think their new doc is also Latin. Also explains the Porto politicians in California.
urbanleftbehind (380f76) — 12/6/2018 @ 6:16 amEl Centro, California. Her father was Armenian. On the Sonny and Cher Show, she was passing herself off as American Indian.
nk (dbc370) — 12/6/2018 @ 6:17 amWhy do they always pick Cherokee?
nk (dbc370) — 12/6/2018 @ 6:18 amI’m really messing up on this thread. I meant to post on the MeToo one.
nk (dbc370) — 12/6/2018 @ 6:22 amYes you get 20 demerits.
Narciso (d1f714) — 12/6/2018 @ 6:26 amOklahoma is where the Cherokees and the Gingers have crossbred into their own distinct race.
urbanleftbehind (5eecdb) — 12/6/2018 @ 7:28 amspeaking of inbred homosexuals
bless his heart he’s stupid
happyfeet (28a91b) — 12/6/2018 @ 7:56 amCan’t recommend this enough:
http://www.troynovant.com/Franson/Parshall-Tully/Shattered-Sword.html
harkin (fbc353) — 12/5/2018 @ 11:55 pm
Yes, that’s an excellent read. Here’s another one, which gets into the controversy surrounding the plane types, and pulls no punches:
The Unknown Battle of Midway: The Destruction of the American Torpedo Squadrons https://www.amazon.com/dp/030010989X/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_UIucCbGX5X9YQ
Kernan was there, as an ordnance man on the Enterprise. I read it recently as a break from politics, but ended up finding parallels to today. His chapter on “Ringknockers” strikes a chord.
Munroe (025c2b) — 12/6/2018 @ 8:17 amThe playing/singing of our national Anthem at the actual funeral service in Houston was particularly beautiful. There’s just something about the sound of a substantial church organ that adds to an occasion.
Ed from SFV (6d42fa) — 12/6/2018 @ 8:22 amFor early Pacific War stuff, I love:
Empires in the Balance: Japanese and Allied Pacific Strategies to April 1942
The Barrier and the Javelin: Japanese and Allied Pacific Strategies, February to June 1942
The War with Japan: The Period of Balance, May 1942 to October 1943
all by H.P. Willmott.
Willmott’s insights and analysis are exceptional. A lot more detail than the typical narrative works, but also a joy to read.
Dave (1bb933) — 12/6/2018 @ 10:18 am“There’s just something about the sound of a substantial church organ that adds to an occasion.”
Just once, I’d like to hear someone play In A Gadda Da Vida on one of those!
Colonel Haiku (5b7649) — 12/6/2018 @ 10:26 amBob Dole paying his respects.
nk (dbc370) — 12/6/2018 @ 11:21 amGosh… if that doesn’t get you, you have a heart of stone.
Colonel Haiku (5b7649) — 12/6/2018 @ 11:30 amMunroe – 134
and Dave 136:
Thanks much!
I’ll add the Max Hastings books, especially Retribution: The Battle For Japan, 1944-45.
harkin (fbc353) — 12/6/2018 @ 2:18 pm137 @ Colonel Haiku – I had the pleasure once at a VERY important Catholic Church with an organ of worldwide repute. We baited the organ player to one day play it at a Mass. He kept saying he would. Never did. Until…without warning, the familiar chords struck up. He was using it as a Recessional!!!!! It was certainly a subdued version. But, it was unmistakable. How we all managed to not bust out laughing, I’ll never know.
The Priest knew something was odd as he had never heard that particular “hymn.” We fessed up to him in the sacristy and he grinned broadly. And admonished us to never do that again.
Ed from SFV (6d42fa) — 12/6/2018 @ 2:40 pmThe Fortunate Few…
Colonel Haiku (5b7649) — 12/6/2018 @ 2:46 pmthere’s also Ian Toll, and James Hornfischer, Neptune’s Inferno, largely culled from the journal of the father of an acquaintance, re the Solomon campaign’s naval branch, and he had a follow up
narciso (d1f714) — 12/6/2018 @ 2:55 pmMy old HS chem lab partner played organ at a funeral home and he said he could bring down the house (cause crying) just by upping the vibrato.
When he would do it the FD would stick his head behind the curtain and whisper ‘Cut that out’.
harkin (59e140) — 12/6/2018 @ 6:19 pmI disagreed with the elder Bush’s policies. But I had to take my hat off to him.
https://www.warhistoryonline.com/history/the-glorious-first-of-june.html
No wonder Bush didn’t want to be shot down there.
More than one hundred US airmen were shot down, either over the island itself or over the sea surrounding it. Most of the men died in their aircraft or were killed by Japanese troops, but a few escaped instant death, and some of those were captured.
Steve57 (0b1dac) — 12/6/2018 @ 8:06 pmOnly three men were rescued by US submarines, and of those was George H. W. Bush, who eventually became President of the United States.
The captured men were subjected to varying degrees of torture before being killed with bamboo spears or Japanese military swords, but evidence came to light of some far more barbaric practices.
At least four of the captured men were beheaded, and their livers and thigh muscles were later served up at banquets attended by senior Japanese officers. A witness at a later War crimes trial, held on the island of Guam, stated that he saw one American beheaded as he was forced to kneel by an open grave. The following day human flesh, including a liver, was served to Japanese officers for dinner.
There was evidence of at least three other similar events, all of them involving cannibalism, and Rear Admiral Kunizo Mori and Army Major General Yoshio Tachibana were both sentenced to death by hanging for their part in ordering the deaths and subsequent consumption of the American airmen.
At the time, the appalling crimes were considered too distressing to report to the families of the dead men, and the files were classified as secret…
I can only conclude that “The Glorious” is meant sarcastically.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eDPyvyt-MQ
It’s not the better plane. It’s the better pilot. The Senior Bush would, it seems, have qualified.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eDPyvyt-MQ
“DogFight – Long Odds”
Steve57 (0b1dac) — 12/6/2018 @ 8:09 pmFrom that terribly written fly boys book, I heard about chichijima
Narciso (d1f714) — 12/6/2018 @ 8:13 pmIt’s always been a little hard for me to believe that the Devastator was truly obsolete. For a couple or a few reasons, whichever syntax you may prefer. First, the Devastators had mad a good show at the Coral Sea just a little over a month before Midway. Second, the “Stringbag” sank the Bismark. Admittedly the operating conditions in the Atlantic were vastly different from the ironically named Pacific, as the Germans didn’t have aircraft carriers. So the British Swordfish didn’t face the same threats as USN torpedo bombers. Also, working in their favor, the Germans just couldn’t f***ing believe anyone would attack their state-of-art battle ships or battle cruisers with archaic biplanes at less than 90 knots. Their fire control systems just couldn’t handle that anachronism. Finally, and a little known footnote to the story of Waldron’s Torpedo 8, a detachment of Avengers (the plane Bush41 flew) was at Midway. They didn’t do any better in all actuality. Of the six TBFs detached to Midway, only one returned. And none of the planes, the pilots of which could see the targets, could approach them. Five were blown out of the sky. One, the Avenger piloted by Albert Earnest, was so shot up that he felt that the only useful thing he could do with already lost life was to attack a screening cruiser. Attention to Citation:
I can’t helped be amused at this one. “Fully aware of the inestimable importance of determining the combat efficiency of a heretofore unproven plane, Ensign Earnest doggedly persisted in spite of tremendous hazards and physical difficulties.” Does anyone even now believe that? Fully aware he was alone over the Pacific, as his plane was so shot up he couldn’t communicate with his ball turret gunner or his radioman/gunner (who if memory serves survived the war and always demanded to fly with Al Earnest) needed to nurse his devastated Avenger home.
I mean, seriously, does anyone imagine he was thinking, “I could give up right now and crash this b**** into the ocean which would be easier, but duty requires I need to bring this plane back to the d@mn island for analysis?”
Anyways, he brought the plane back to the d@mned island and the Marines wouldn’t let him look in on his ball turret gunner as it would haunt him for the rest of his life. But the plane brought back to Grumman was on one of the same ships that retuned the Marines who were no longer necessary to defend Midway from the depleted Japanese fleet to Hawaii. And every time it rained they woke up in the gunners blood. And the engineers were amazed as they couldn’t count the shell holes in the plane as one just ran into the other. The h3ll b*** just shouldn’t have flown but there right in front of them was the evidence that it did.
The Grumman TBF and GM TBM went on to a long career. But don’t tell me that the Avenger was any great shakes over the Devastator when none of those planes, unsupported by dedicated fighters, could penetrate the Japanese perimeter and hit the carriers.
Steve57 (0b1dac) — 12/7/2018 @ 2:45 pmNarciso, the fly boys are notoriously bad at writing. Which is why when I was with one of the squadrons with the assigned air wing in Carl Vinson I developed a coloring book to explain Rules Of Engagement to the pilots.
Steve57 (0b1dac) — 12/7/2018 @ 2:53 pmperhaps but it was Bradley who had a terrible manuscript,
narciso (d1f714) — 12/7/2018 @ 3:07 pmSteve57 (0b1dac) — 12/7/2018 @ 2:45 pm
Outstanding comment, Steve57.
felipe (023cc9) — 12/7/2018 @ 3:11 pmyes, it’s a tough aircraft, that requires a superior pilot, of course I’d seen intruder, which depicted the impossible targeting rules, over Vietnam, but recently I’d seen took ri, which depicted similar circumstances, in korea, brubaker was based on a real person,
narciso (d1f714) — 12/7/2018 @ 3:37 pmthe real brubaker was a brash fellow,
http://www.historynet.com/real-bridges-toko-ri.htm
again Frederick march’s coda is worth repeating,
narciso (d1f714) — 12/7/2018 @ 3:45 pmI appreciate your comment. And, I’m sure you understand this. But my words carry no weight beyond Albert Earnest’s airmanship and bravery. I only stand on the shoulders of giants.
Steve57 (0b1dac) — 12/7/2018 @ 4:27 pmA tough aircraft has been, as far as I can tell, a prerequisite for Naval aviation since forever. It’s probably an extension of our love of our first six frigates. (Hint: ironsides) Imagine our pleasure when the Royal Navy issued an edict that no single British frigate would fight a single American.
Which brings us, I suppose, to WWII. When Japanese ace Saburo Sakai couldn’t understand why the American aircraft he was assaulting just didn’t go down. After expending his ammo he went alongside. The American was hit, every round had landed. The plane was in tatters, shredded. As as the pilot. But the plane was still flying and there was nothing Sakai could do about it.
He had bettered that aviator and his ride that day. But it wouldn’t last. In a few months Sakai would have to face the H2llcat, F6F, not the Wildcat, F4F. And USN aviators who knew how to use it because we didn’t have the wasteful practice of keeping experienced pilots on the front until they returned in caskets or not at all. They returned to the states and trained their replacements.
So, one evening I’m down in the Imagery Explotation Space and I look up at the PLATT, which stands for Pilot Landing Aid blah blah blah, if you’re in to jargon. And I wonder briefly, “Why is that Corsair in after burner?” Then I get back to work and it hits me. Duhh!
a-7 Corsairs don’t have afterburner. What you want to get, if you are a carrier pilot, is an OK three wire. This Harley Driver caught a one wire and slammed his plane so hard on the deck he drove his nose wheel gear up into the intake. Causing the jet to spit out the parts in a red flame I for a few seconds confused as burner.
It didn’t help that I used to hang out with the F-8 Crusader mafia.
Steve57 (0b1dac) — 12/7/2018 @ 5:05 pmSakai was a huge fan of the US military presence in Japan. The Japanese at the time thought we were going to treat them like they had treated defeated peoples. Like, in particular the rape-of-Nanking defeated people. And we didn’t. They were amazed.
If any of you have socialist nieces, daughters, or nephews (but I repeat myself), send them my way.
Steve57 (0b1dac) — 12/7/2018 @ 5:15 pmYes, this in memory to the Marines who just died off Shikoku. It is a dangerous business.
Steve57 (0b1dac) — 12/7/2018 @ 5:22 pmYes defeated powers get the pax Romana or pax sovietica,
Narciso (d1f714) — 12/7/2018 @ 5:24 pmI just realized this might have sounded a lot dirtier than I intended. I meant I would give them an education Which from a certain perspective still might come across as a dirty thought.
Be advised, if I mean any of this as other than an invite to discussion and swatting down of ideas, my own brothers would beat me down and call the cops. This kind of s&&& just doesn’t happen around the Christmas table in my house.
Steve57 (0b1dac) — 12/7/2018 @ 8:02 pmOr, an other day.
Steve57 (0b1dac) — 12/7/2018 @ 8:04 pmI hit all the keysrrokes. I don’t know why they’re not showing up.
Steve57 (0b1dac) — 12/7/2018 @ 8:07 pmI hope Kevin isn’t permanently injured after Dave pointed out that McCain flew Skyhawks, not Phantoms. It’s an easy mistake to make, what with the 4.
Steve57 (0b1dac) — 12/9/2018 @ 8:08 amF14. Tomcat? Phantom? Who knows?
Steve57 (0b1dac) — 12/9/2018 @ 8:10 amMy issue, if it’s allowed and enough time has passed since McCain’s funeral, had nothing to do with what plane he drove over Vietnam. I’m a big fan of the Skyhawk. I wish the Navy would give me one. And don’t tell me it’s not a fighter. With those 20mm cannons.
The point isn’t Skyhawk v. Phantom. It’s the Orwellian named Littoral Combat Ship.
Steve57 (0b1dac) — 12/9/2018 @ 8:27 amYou’re a good man. Whatever you meant by that balled up mess.
Steve57 (0b1dac) — 12/9/2018 @ 4:31 pmAustrian woman Elizabet Schmidt human rights court
Steve57 (0b1dac) — 12/9/2018 @ 4:35 pmugh John mcCain
i hope his airplane gets shooted down and they take him prisoner
i bet that would make him reflect a lot on life and he’d emerge from the experience a better person
happyfeet (28a91b) — 12/9/2018 @ 4:40 pmI take it back, Cohen has teh monkeys and this man has seen them ! https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dta4VDTVsAE1wOr.jpg
Colonel Haiku (af8791) — 12/9/2018 @ 4:42 pmWhat possessed them to think that the LCS design would work.
Narciso (d1f714) — 12/9/2018 @ 4:42 pmProbablt because they ticked the clock over fifty. That answers a lot of questions for me. What happened to my optical mouse? What happened to my watch? Where did it go, I didn’t get off the ****ing couch how could it f***inng go someplace? Well, it’s gone. And it will return at a time and place of its own choosing. Because you have lived too damned long.
‘
Steve57 (0b1dac) — 12/9/2018 @ 7:59 pmw
And now artifacts.
Steve57 (0b1dac) — 12/9/2018 @ 8:08 pmCan you, pretty please, point me in the direction of something along the lines of a design.
Steve57 (0b1dac) — 12/9/2018 @ 8:13 pmI’ve got LCS Alpha, Beta, Charlie, …
Steve57 (0b1dac) — 12/9/2018 @ 8:15 pmOh and the modules haven’t been developed as they just don’t work.
Steve57 (0b1dac) — 12/9/2018 @ 8:17 pmI don’t want to go over my limit but two links will more than do.
https://mscconference.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/uss_independence_lcs-2_at_pierce_cropped.jpg
Littoral Combat Ship two.
http://quotulatiousness.ca/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/USS-Freedom-LCS-1.jpg
Littoral Combat Ship one.
I stand with the proud men and women of the Naval service who would rather go to war in a tug boat.
No s&&((, as that was exactly what my dad did in Cherokee.
Steve57 (0b1dac) — 12/9/2018 @ 8:32 pmOne is a pt boat with a flight deck, the other is a destroyer with the prow of a submarine,
Narciso (d1f714) — 12/9/2018 @ 8:44 pmUSCGC Cherokee (WMEC-165)
I’m probably going to get banned for this, but let me break this down. W=equals white. Don’t know why; apparently everyone who founded a Coast Guard was a Mormon. The other letters become more descriptive. In this case, Medium Endurance Cutter. I think the term “endurance” refers to how long the salad won’t go to water.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_endurance_cutter
Just telling you, coastie, your recruiter is lying to you. Your salad is turning brown and dissolving into watery mush tomorrow
Steve57 (0b1dac) — 12/9/2018 @ 8:53 pmOh it’s the name of a ship
Narciso (d1f714) — 12/9/2018 @ 9:12 pmWell, the name of the ship was Cherokee. The category was WMEC. But whatever shakes your peaches.
Steve57 (0b1dac) — 12/9/2018 @ 9:47 pmI am BTW officially more Cherokee than Elizabeth Warren ever was.
http://www.navsource.org/archives/09/39/093906604.jpg
Yes, I culturally appropriated that…
Steve57 (0b1dac) — 12/9/2018 @ 9:51 pmHey, let’s hear from the rest of you! what have you culturally appropriated? Because, the whole point of conquering inferior peoples is appropriating inferior s***.
I want to conquer the Balkans so I can seize their aviation technology.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/09/Red_Yugo_GV_in_Junction_Triangle%2C_Toronto%2C_Canada_2.jpg
Steve57 (0b1dac) — 12/9/2018 @ 9:57 pmThen on to the Congo, for the medical devices!
Steve57 (0b1dac) — 12/9/2018 @ 9:59 pmBack in the eighties I attempted be become a computer programmer. I tried. I really tried. But the instructor kept teaming me with a Cambodian chick. A raven haired Cambodian chick. In a miniskirt.
It just wasn’t fair.
So we’re evolving down the instructions, working through the instructions on the programmable calculator which is how you learned to program computers back then, and I look at her and everything flies out of my head. I learned two things and if you pay me I’ll tell you. One is about Marine Corps machine gunners and the other is about computer programmers.
Steve57 (0b1dac) — 12/9/2018 @ 10:20 pmFascist!
Steve57 (0b1dac) — 12/12/2018 @ 2:54 amI’m not goinr 5o su3q2w you. mpqw;uu I SON’R KNOQ QHR keys to hit.
Steve57 (0b1dac) — 12/12/2018 @ 4:07 amI did not tell you for free what you need to know about USMC gunners.
Steve57 (0b1dac) — 12/12/2018 @ 4:09 amActually I will tell you for free. You do not want to get on the wrong end of teenaged Marine on the wrong end of an automatic weapon, especially one who just fell out of love because the whole Oceanside thing hasn’t worked out and hasn’t had a drink in nine weeks.
Hello!
Steve57 (0b1dac) — 12/12/2018 @ 4:30 am