Patterico's Pontifications

11/27/2018

The Weaponization of Children in Immigration Battles

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:17 am



The Washington Post yesterday ran a piece about the confrontation at the border, with a picture of a crying girl and a headline that focused on the suffering of children:

Crying Girl at Border

But making decisions about immigration based on sobbing children leads to disastrous results.

In July 2015, Angela Merkel confronted a sobbing Palestinian girl who wanted to study in Germany. Merkel said girls like her could not stay in Germany. There were too many people who wanted to stay, and Germany could not handle it:

The incident made international headlines. The phrase #MerkelStreichelt (Merkel strokes) trended on Twitter. Merkel was criticized in all parts of the globe. Just weeks later, Merkel announced that Germany could handle a huge influx of immigrants, with the famous line “Wir schaffen das” (“we can manage that” or “we can do this”). I need not belabor how disastrous that declaration was.

Few (if any) seem to have noticed how directly Merkel’s three-word declaration derived from her confrontation with the young Palestinian girl. Here is a transcript of the key moment when Merkel said the words that caused the tears to flow:

und wenn wir jetzt sagen „Ihr könnt alle kommen und ihr könnt alle aus Afrika kommen und ihr könnt alle kommen“, das, das können wir auch nicht schaffen.

Which roughly translates as:

“if we now say, ‘you can all come here and you from Africa you can all come and you can all come’, we cannot manage that.”

Do you see the parallel there? Merkel told the little girl “das können wir auch nicht schaffen” (we can’t manage that) and, after being pilloried by the international community, changed it to “Wir schaffen das” (we can manage that). The Wikipedia entry for “Wir schaffen das” does not mention the connection. This POLITICO article about the phrase does not mention the parallel. But it’s clear. All you have to do is look.

I hate having Donald Trump as president. I think he is corrupt and criminal and moronic. I could go on. But …

… but at times like these, the silver lining of his presidency becomes clear: that he can be seemingly impervious to the criticism of Big Media, and their attempts to emotionally manipulate the public through images of children being harmed.

Well, except for the bombing of Syria.

Although he emphasised he was not part of the White House administration, Eric Trump said he could tell his father was “deeply affected” by the images of injured children in the aftermath of the chemical weapons attack, in Idlib province, north-east Syria.

“I stay out of politics and I stay out of the administration but you can tell he was deeply affected by those images of the children,” he said.

But, you know, other than that.

[Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.]

174 Responses to “The Weaponization of Children in Immigration Battles”

  1. I feel for the folks’ plight at the border, but they don’t have the right to be here.

    Paul Montagu (8afb2a)

  2. these people are crappy parents that endanger their children

    we don’t want people like that here

    we have to stop the vicious cycle of abuse and neglect

    happyfeet (d13f58)

  3. Mama doesn’t look like she’s been missing any meals. Or doing thousands of miles of walking either.

    nk (dbc370)

  4. she’s a fashion disaster

    happyfeet (d13f58)

  5. As my Mexico born and bred BIL told me 20 years ago when I expressed sympathy for the poor, beleaguered people of Mexico, “these people are not our friends”…

    Colonel Haiku (697687)

  6. I don’t see how those kids could be hers. I’ll bet that they belong to somebody on the CNN crew who filmed this fake drama.

    nk (dbc370)

  7. Why does she not do anything about the wiffle ball hurting the child’s fingers?

    SarahW (08f5d7)

  8. There is the nasty part of me who would love to see Trump cave here, so that his fans can come to the realization that he is a worthless sack of garbage without any principles other than a desperate need to be loved by lots of people (and I’m not just talking porn stars and beauty queens).

    But the other parts tell me — if Trump is about anything — he is about his brand, and his brand is a hard line on immigration. So I don’t see him caving.

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  9. a lot of people pay good money for pants-off wiffle ball torture

    happyfeet (d13f58)

  10. oof

    happyfeet (d13f58)

  11. You keep hoping for the wrong thing, Obama gave up in Iraq, Islamic state decided otherwise.

    Narciso (d1f714)

  12. I don’t see how those kids could be hers. I’ll bet that they belong to somebody on the CNN crew who filmed this fake drama.

    The Honduran gene pool is closer to a Caribbean Latin gene pool than the mestizo pool of Mexico, Guatemala and El Salvador. You might have something like a Cuban family with a blond, brown-haired meso, and someone who looks like Johnny Mathis all as siblings from the actual dad (no milkman or postal participation).

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  13. just wait for it

    dirty hateful Mia Love will blame Republicans for this before end of day

    happyfeet (d13f58)

  14. As my Mexico born and bred BIL told me 20 years ago when I expressed sympathy for the poor, beleaguered people of Mexico, “these people are not our friends”…

    Is he a “dual” (citizen)? Maybe we can install him as a sort of Victor Orban, but we gotta get him there by Friday night.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  15. What sort of mother walks around in a pair of Nikes while her old-enough-to-be-potty-trained child is barefoot and in a diaper?

    Colonel Haiku (697687)

  16. “What sort of mother walks around in a pair of Nikes while her old-enough-to-be-potty-trained child is barefoot and in a diaper?”

    A child abuser, that’s the sort.

    And why do we want to let a child abuser into the country?

    Bored Lawyer (998177)

  17. There, we disagree, Haiku. Kids only need shoes in the winter. I would skip the diaper outdoors. No undies at all. Just a thigh-length t-shirt or similar that he can lift up when he wants to go potty. And teach him to squat. Best way to potty train kids.

    nk (dbc370)

  18. Why not argue this from the opposite perspective? If free movement of people is a human right, shouldn’t people be migrating to Africa, Middle East, and Central/South America? The issue around these immigration debates is that they’re one sided. If we argue the opposite that we want to go there and fix the problems that they have in their native countries, we’ll see a shift in the rhetoric on these topics. Claim that Mexican states should join the United States if they need a better life. That’ll make a change in evaluation from 3rd world leaders.

    Dejectedhead (787359)

  19. I’m a so happy the booooshes aren’t at the border handing out lollipops.

    mg (ebf6c2)

  20. You must have been the author of Hi and Lois, nk, because you are making me laugh.

    Colonel Haiku (697687)

  21. It’s a shame that our current administration can’t manage the border without using tear gas on children.

    I don’t think we should set policy by photo op.

    I don’t think the only 2 possible choices are massive force or open borders.

    I do think it’s 100% fair to criticize how this happened.

    I suspect (but am not sure) that some (not all) of Trump’s supporters are happy to see people hurt in this encounter. That’s also a shame.

    Time123 (cd2ff4)

  22. This is an example of the sort of important info that the major MSM finds to be of little or no interest as they focus on Orange Man Bad… https://ricochet.com/573078/the-abbottabad-archive-and-the-silence-of-the-chattering-classes/#respond

    Colonel Haiku (697687)

  23. The conceit of the soccer moms who insist that everyone DESERVES a significant American safety net is ultimate virtue signalling. And ruinous.

    Man thinks he can rationalize his way into the creation of a heaven on earth. Nevermind that all of history proves a single minded pursuit of perfection over good leads to hell.

    Ed from SFV (6d42fa)

  24. This is a probe for a much larger invasion, Mr. Time 123. How we repel it will determine whether or not we get a million more illegal aliens jumping over the fence and walking over border patrol agents in coming months.

    nk (dbc370)

  25. “It’s a shame that our current administration can’t manage the border without using tear gas on children.”

    Did you feel the same way when the Obama Administration employed tear gas at the border?

    Colonel Haiku (697687)

  26. if sleazy Mia Love had voted for a sensible wall we wouldn’t need to use persuasive tear gas to dissuade all these head lice people from doing head lice invasion all up on the border

    happyfeet (d13f58)

  27. doesn’t fit on his cue card, coronello,

    narciso (d1f714)

  28. I hope no illegals do harm to your family, Time123, because its devastating.

    mg (ebf6c2)

  29. this is why general Flynn was dismissed, because he saw ‘a light at the end of the tunnel, and it was an oncoming train,’ bin laden was much more hands on, than the view viewer, he was presented as,

    narciso (d1f714)

  30. why are they always lying to us:

    https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/1067430101548027906

    narciso (d1f714)

  31. Huh, looks like my week long moderation time out turned into 5+ weeks. How about that?

    Dejectedhead (787359)

  32. NK@25, No one has made that case with any data I’m aware of. Do you have a link or other source?

    Time123 (cd2ff4)

  33. MG @29, I hope NO ONE does any harm to my family. Bless your heart for thinking of them around Christmas.

    Maybe you missed my initial point: I don’t accept that these are our only 2 choices. With the money and power the federal government has why couldn’t they do better than this?

    Time123 (cd2ff4)

  34. 33 – your welcome. The lackadaisical effort on border control was brought to us by self loathing democrats and rinos

    mg (ef2c8e)

  35. My FIL is a retired state police officer. He told me a story once where he was part of a shooting investigation.
    A complaint was made about a dog crapping on a neighbor’s yard. An officer went out to follow up on the complaint. (it was a small town) The dog’s owner was a jerk. The officer got pissed and placed them under arrest. The owner attempted to retreat into their house from the front porch. The office tried to drag them out of their house. In the ensuing struggle the officer shot and killed the dog’s owner. The officer was found innocent of any wrong doing.
    But the dumbass ended up killing a man over what started as a complaint over dog poop.
    This is a similar thing. I’m not saying illegal immigration is OK any more than it’s ok for your dog to poop on other people’s property. But it sure seems like smart people could find a better way to handle the situation. And FWIW while using lethal force to address resisting arrest is appropriate, it’s hard for me to understand why anyone would be happy that a man died in that situation. It’s also hard for me to understand why anyone would be happy children were harmed in this situation.

    Time123 (f5cf77)

  36. I only know what I read on the internet, Mr. Time 123. And what I read is caravans of 5,000 are being organized to force their way into our country as a matter of right, when before there were only groups of a few dozen at most sneaking in the best way they could. If it helps you with the numbers, 304,000 of those were caught at the Mexican border last year. We don’t know how many were not caught.

    nk (dbc370)

  37. the head lice children learned a valuable lesson about invading foreign countries, one which countries teach using much harsher methods that’s for sure

    happyfeet (d13f58)

  38. Maybe you missed my initial point: I don’t accept that these are our only 2 choices. With the money and power the federal government has why couldn’t they do better than this?

    Well, we could temporarily house them at the border. In that case, of course, we would want to ensure that the children aren’t being brought in by coyotes or a criminal element, so we should prudently separate them from the adults to interview — oh, wait!

    I appreciate that you and many other pro-immigrant types think there is some middle ground here, but it seems to us that the pro-immigrant lobby ends up asserting that anything other than catch-and-release with the vague hopes that they show up for their immigration hearing in thirteen months is the only acceptable answer. Forgive us if many of us think you aren’t really serious about screening potential immigrants, you just want to virtue signal how generous you are by dumping unprocessed immigrants into someone else’s already-overcrowded neighborhoods and schools.

    JVW (42615e)

  39. These children were intentionally taken to a dangerous place and used as political props. I feel for the kids, but it’s not the border police that are the bad guys here, it’s the parents or other adults who are trying to use kids as human shields. I also blame the reporters who are co-conspirators.

    Kevin M (a57144)

  40. Remember the sleaze in Titanic and how he got aboard the liferaft?

    Kevin M (a57144)

  41. NK, Here’s a link to a pew research paper. Seems to show that we’ve been pretty steady since about 2008 after a climb from 1990.

    Here’s a story from the economist that also shows things have been pretty stable for the last few years.

    If we really want less illegal immigration take steps to reduce the demand.

    Time123 (cd2ff4)

  42. And FWIW while using lethal force to address resisting arrest is appropriate, it’s hard for me to understand why anyone would be happy that a man died in that situation. It’s also hard for me to understand why anyone would be happy children were harmed in this situation.

    What makes you assume that any of us are “happy” in either scenario, other than a general uncharitable assumption on your part. These Central Americans aren’t stupid, they know that coming to the border with young children makes them sympathetic and increases the odds that they will be given at least a temporary amnesty. So that leads more people to risk their children’s lives by dragging them to the border. And in interviews with these migrants it is apparent that not all of them are people who fear for their safety in their home countries, many of them are simply seeking economic opportunities in the U.S. At Patterico points out, this is very similar to the alleged refugees in Europe who have so vexed Chancellor Merkel. It turned out that a huge proportion of them were young males who only wanted to find work in wealthy Europe.

    No one believes that all American parents act with their children’s best interests. We’ve all seen (and probably all know) parents who exploit their children for financial gain or use them to manipulate the system, whether it is schools, courts, or government agencies. Why then are we so willing to convince ourselves that Central American parents are certainly acting selflessly and 100% out of familial love? Could it be that some of them really are horrible parents who exploit their children to try and seek the sympathy pro-immigration forces in the U.S.? Could it be that some of them are going to lie about their circumstances at home when they are screened for asylum? How would you determine who is legitimately a refugee feeling oppression, and who is a phony exploiting our sympathies to jump the immigration line?

    JVW (42615e)

  43. Thank you, I did read that or an update. That’s where I got the 304,000. But there’s a new dynamic with caravans of 5,000 and open confrontation under claim of right.

    nk (dbc370)

  44. “If we really want less illegal immigration take steps to reduce the demand.

    We’re already doing that by letting so many in who have no regard for our laws or customs. When quality of life in the USA is equal to that in Mexico we can all shout SUCCESS.

    harkin (05cfd8)

  45. they’re not even clean they’re just showing up without even taking a shower

    happyfeet (d13f58)

  46. Time 123 (#42):

    If we really want less illegal immigration take steps to reduce the demand.

    Well, Eric Erickson just happens to have some ideas about that:

    https://www.themaven.net/theresurgent/erick-erickson/we-should-find-and-support-the-next-pinochets-not-really-but-sort-of-h6LeMmAo9keQlPdGHTd4uw/

    I always though immigration is something a country gets to manage through laws, borders, and stuff. The Left is turning away from that idea.

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  47. Time123 (cd2ff4) — 11/27/2018 @ 8:20 am

    A choice to refrain from border-storming is not one you seem to acknowledge.
    Why is that wiffle ball on the child’s fingers? That causes intense pain and can result in serious injury if not addressed promptly.

    It’s an ordiary enough scrape for a kiddie to get into, even young adults have done it as youtube will attest. But since no one is doing anything about it, leat of all the “mother” of the year. I presume that there is a possibility an adult or adults could have done it to the child and on purpose. They might wish to get onto US soil by creating an injury requiring attention. At the worst they mean to control the child through pain or to manufacture tears.

    SarahW (08f5d7)

  48. If we really want less illegal immigration take steps to reduce the demand.

    What, like crash our economy?

    Or is this yet another appeal for ever more ineffective U.S. financial assistance being used to prop up inefficient economic systems and corrupt governments?

    JVW (42615e)

  49. i don’t buy that the illegals we are letting in have no regard for our laws or customs. Most of them come to work, and do work — mostly low paying stuff that middle class people don’t or won’t do. If you’re looking at what’s stealing your jobs, chances are it’s automation, not illegals. They are mostly Catholic from that part of the world, and value family. “Family values” but without the scare quotes. Sure not every one, and sure there will be some baddies in the mix. but on the whole these are people Conservatives ought to be welcoming and trying to figure out how to reach out to. And no, I’m not saying let everyone in. We can’t let everyone in and we need common-sense laws. But the wholesale fear and demonization of migrants is stupid.

    JRH (f51cae)

  50. “i don’t buy that the illegals we are letting in have no regard for our laws or customs.

    The law says they cannot enter illegally.

    It is a custom for most of our citizens to obey the law.

    harkin (05cfd8)

  51. We can’t let everyone in and we need common-sense laws. But the wholesale fear and demonization of migrants is stupid.

    For Heaven’s sake, this dull trope that everyone fears and demonizes immigrants is so tired that it’s barely worth responding to. Would you be surprised to know that most of us here (based upon past comments) agree with just about everything that you wrote? But here’s the good news: we actually have in place a system where someone who wants to work hard and raise a family and participate in American life can apply to come here legally and get work. You seem to be either openly supporting or at the very least sympathetic to the idea that a large group of people can suddenly decide that they are entitled to reside in the U.S. and thus organize a caravan, trek up to our border, and demand to be let in. Don’t take that position and then try to tell us that you are against letting everyone in and that you agree we need strong border laws, because you are only contradicting yourself.

    JVW (42615e)

  52. JRH (f51cae) — 11/27/2018 @ 10:07 am

    As any claiming asylum are necessarily not, by their own story, not looking for anything but a safer place to live and work, it’s curious that these persons would not accept offers of assistance, safety and stable work along the way.

    SarahW (08f5d7)

  53. because the left thinks that’s the wrong way to organize a country, the citizens duly constituted should have the last say, not the first, some elements of the right, have a similar view,

    narciso (d1f714)

  54. JVW @39, I’m not pro-immigration. I just think this was poorly done. We pay a tremendous amount of money on defense and border enforcement and this was the best they could do? Pathetic.

    JVW @43 What makes you assume that any of us are “happy” in either scenario, other than a general uncharitable assumption on your part.

    I don’t know if you’re happy or not. You haven’t said anything that makes me think you are. I haven’t seen any comments on this thread that seem happy. I have seen some influential voices on the right that seem happy about the way this played out.

    How do you feel about it if you don’t mind my asking?

    Time123 (cd2ff4)

  55. There’s a lot of hypocrisy on the part of the plutocrats who want the cheap labor but want it perpetually in the shadows so it will remain cheap, that’s true. Still, we either have a border or we don’t, it’s that simple.

    nk (dbc370)

  56. Appalled @48. That’s one approach. I’ve seen Trump make noises on twitter about immigration and our foreign aid. So far he hasn’t been able to get much done there that I’ve seen.

    Another approach would be to reduce the incentive to hire undocumented workers. We have a verification system. Maybe it needs to be better. Maybe the fines need to be higher or the enforcement more vigorous. Doesn’t seem like farmers and service industry businesses are too worried about employing undocumented workers.

    It’s like fighting prostitution by arresting the hookers. You can do that, but better results have been shown by arresting the Johns.

    Time123 (f5cf77)

  57. Yikes! Just clicked the tweet you linked, Time 123. Does Alyssa Milano give blowjobs to Hollywood casting directors with that mouth?

    nk (dbc370)

  58. a system where someone who wants to work hard and raise a family and participate in American life can apply to come here legally and get work.

    That is not really the situation. And that’s the basic problem. Our immigration system is too restrictive, and Trump is trying to make the situation worse. People who do want to come here and raise a family-call them the immigrants we want–don’t have a real chance to do that. So they join caravans and claim asylum because they don’t have a realistic way to come here legally.

    You want less illegal immigrants and fake asylum seekers? Increase the possibility of legal immigration.

    kishnevi (bb03e6)

  59. We have a verification system. Maybe it needs to be better. Maybe the fines need to be higher or the enforcement more vigorous. Doesn’t seem like farmers and service industry businesses are too worried about employing undocumented workers.

    The verification system is phony. In keeping with what I said above. It only serves to give legal cover to employers who hire illegals. I doubt that it has kept one single illegal from being hired by a boss who wanted to hire him.

    nk (dbc370)

  60. How do you feel about it if you don’t mind my asking?

    I wish that it hadn’t happened, but I ascribe 99% of the blame to the immigrants themselves: let’s say about 75% of it to the idiots who decided to clash with border patrol, and 24% to the parents who dragged their kids along for the show.

    JVW (42615e)

  61. #58

    I have always thought had enormous power on how the immigration issue comes out because all he has to do is enforce the law on the books, and suddenly the Left is in its worst case scenario. I did not reckon on certain judges extending DACA by fiat. I also had no idea how judicially created the loophole for asylum seekers is.

    I think there has been a breech of faith on the issue of immigration. Basically, Congress passed a law, and then the government chose not to enforce it. I would prefer fairly loose immigration law myself, but how can you get to that when there is no reason to believe such a law would ever be enforced?

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  62. #58 –‘

    I was referring to Trump in my #63. But his name went missing in a fit of wishful thinking.

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  63. Not merely that, but there is a legal political infrastructure designed to block any enforcement.

    Narciso (ceb6f7)

  64. 59… time123 must be okay with that show of tolerance and civility… wow.

    Colonel Haiku (697687)

  65. Well, well, well, whatduddya know: DHS says that there has been a huge increase in the number of migrant men who show up at the border with children. It’s almost as if they have been led to believe that bringing a child along for the trip increases their odds of being allowed in. This is also a good time to remind everyone that the right-wing Huffington Post claimed that 80% of migrant women and children are raped while crossing the borders, mostly by immigrant smugglers or by their fellow migrants.

    But please tell me again how these families with children are all “desperate” and “have no other options.”

    JVW (42615e)

  66. A mother climbing the border fence with her two children fell and was empaled on rebar with her two children crying beside her until she was finally pulled off it.

    lany (3bf1c2)

  67. As the nazi said what is the point of getting rid of the mothers if you don’t get rid of the children?

    lany (3bf1c2)

  68. Why was she climbing the fence, Perry? Was a dog chasing her?

    nk (dbc370)

  69. A mother climbing the border fence with her two children fell and was empaled on rebar with her two children crying beside her until she was finally pulled off it.

    Very sad story, but I’m glad to hear that she is apparently OK.

    It’s almost as if you shouldn’t be trying to climb border fences.

    JVW (42615e)

  70. As the nazi said what is the point of getting rid of the mothers if you don’t get rid of the children?

    As the progressive said: how can we exploit both of them for our own political purposes?

    JVW (42615e)

  71. Forgive us if many of us think you aren’t really serious about screening potential immigrants, you just want to virtue signal how generous you are by dumping unprocessed immigrants into someone else’s already-overcrowded neighborhoods and schools.

    Allow me to gently and respectfully suggest that this argument seems rather pointedly personal.

    I agree with JVW and others that the primary blame for the plight of the shoeless child lies with her mother, who should have used her solid footwear to carry her child away from the mad rush to the border long before any pepper pellets were fired.

    Patterico (96b2a0)

  72. “Pepper Balls” sounds like a painful condition…

    Colonel Haiku (697687)

  73. @57. Yep. ‘Disorder at the Border’ can’t be tolerated or any stooge will try to break through.

    But the optics are dicey; they need to avert any kind of ‘Kent State’ scenario. But border security is a ‘two-way’ street; IMO, when the border was rushed and legacy fencing breached, the use of tear gas from the U.S. side was appropriate. But any sense of ‘media manipulation,’ is a bit of a stretch to me as there were kids in scrum- that is a tactic. It seems more a matter of personal perception sympathetic w/a POV; do you see migrants desperate for a new life; a fresh pool of cheap labor; an invasion of brown people… or just crooks on the run.

    Mexican authorities arrested 40 individuals or so to deport. The press reported the parameters of this event fairly and, in the San Diego market anyway, quite measured given the proximity– and demographics of the region.

    San Ysidro isn’t Ellis Island; a lot of commerce passes through there daily and any disruption or closure can have an economic impact. And Otay Mesa, the other major crossing point, remained open.
    Still, mileage and opinions may vary: many years ago, our first week in California met w/t gasoline being syphoned dry out of the car; a local patrolman said illegals routinely do it at night to start fires and keep warm up in the hills… ‘grand theft gasso.’

    Follow the rules in an orderly fashion and nobody will get hurt.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  74. Allow me to gently and respectfully suggest that this argument seems rather pointedly personal.

    Well then, let me de-personalize it and make this general observation: a person’s willingness to let in thousands and thousands of migrants seems inversely proportional to the odds that those migrants will end up living in their neighborhoods and attending school with their children, barring of course family ties, ethnic bonds, and other political associations. It is, however, directly proportional to the odds that person will want to hire a gardener, housekeeper, or a nanny at some point, or runs a business or service that relies upon low-skill, low-wage labor. This joke sign from a while back perfectly encapsulates the sentiment.

    JVW (42615e)

  75. Sure, protect the border. But come on, let’s not stoop to using tear gas. You can’t tell me there’s not a better way. Let’s not get all medieval barbarian, OK? Resorting to chemical weapons in this situation is just draconian.

    Tillman (61f3c8)

  76. @77. The chaos called for it– they were wildly spilling through the breach in the wall; the border patrol was becoming overwhelmed so the took appropriate action. It worked. More concerning is the authorization of lethal force; don’t need images akin to East Germans getting machine-gunned at the Berlin Wall or ‘four dead in O-HI-o’ scenarios.

    All they have to do is follow the rules.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  77. Resorting to chemical weapons in this situation is just draconian.

    For Heaven’s sake, it’s 2-chlorobenzalmalononitrile (C₁₀H₅ClN₂), a non-lethal irritant, not the mustard gas used in World War I trenches or the sarin gas that Assad uses on his fellow Syrians. One of the reasons we can’t have a rational discussion on this topic is because people are using irresponsible analogies to make it sound as if these immigrants are in peril from the nasty border agents mobilized by the nefarious Trump Administration.

    JVW (42615e)

  78. 77. Puh-leez! Civilian police forces use tear gas in riot control against American citizens!

    Gryph (08c844)

  79. Lol ‘chemical weapons’.

    harkin (05cfd8)

  80. Napalm and paraquat kill head lice, happyfeet.

    mg (ebf6c2)

  81. It’s medieval hyperbole Tuesday!

    Colonel Haiku (697687)

  82. i don’t buy that the illegals we are letting in have no regard for our laws or customs.

    Then you haven’t read the communist/socialist manifesto the organizers of these caravans produced as a press release earlier this year.

    https://i2.wp.com/fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/3035.jpg

    The money quotea:

    …We seek to become one collective, supporting each other shoulder to shoulder and demonstrate that by uniting we can abolish borders.

    …We demand of Mexico and the United States:

    * That they respect our rights as refugees and our right to dignified work to be able to support our families

    * That they open the borders to us because we are as much citizens as the people of the countries where we are and/or travel

    So, let’s take an accounting. They bypassed every opportunity they had to apply for asylum as refugees at US consulates and embassies on their way to attempt to tear down our border fencing and to be able to throw rocks at BP and ICE agents. They also refused to accept asylum in Mexico despite their offer of medical care, jobs, and other forms of assistance. They’ve declared our borders invalid and our immigration and naturalization laws null and void. Being born in Honduras or Guatemala or Bangladesh makes them just as much American citizens as people born here.

    There’s a whole list of laws they have already declared their intention to flaunt. Why don’t you provide us a list of laws you think they might obey. They’ll probably add it to their list of rights to ignore.

    So, they demand we eliminate our refugee screening process.

    But the wholesale fear and demonization of migrants is stupid.

    JRH (f51cae) — 11/27/2018 @ 10:07 am

    There’s no need to psychoanalyze. There’s no “fear” of migrants here. These people are violent illegal aliens who came here uninvited with a list of demands and newly invented rights and in our righteous anger the American people are telling them to pound sand. And we’re not buying the media propaganda.

    “These children are barefoot. In diapers. Choking on teargas.”

    Yeah. That’s a red flag right there. As people have already noted, the adult has shoes. That kid didn’t walk all the way from Guatemala to our border barefoot and pantsless despite what the media wants us to think. And I’ve seen the effects of tear gas. This is the first time I’ve seen it only affect children. The adult adult calmly holding the kid in place for the photographer, also an adult, both seem amazingly unaffected.

    I don’t enjoy being played for a fool, do you? I’m angry at the two adults manipulating this child, who as Sarah has already pointed out is undoubtedly bawling because she can’t pull that whiffle ball that’s hurting her fingers of while the adult maintains her death grip on the other hand. And neither adult seems to be willing to help. No doubt the one holding her hand put it there and made sure it hurt.

    This is clearly staged by two child abusers. And you want to let these people in? I mean, there’s probably nothing we can do about the photog who works for the US media. But damn, these people in the caravan are demonstrating themselves to be violent scum. No wonder their home countries are hell holes.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  83. Uhh, Tillman, what makes you think anyone is using tear gas in that picture? Again, I’m familiar with tear gas, just not the kind of tear gas that makes children cry without affecting adults so one can hold the kid in place for the other adult with the camera to calmly squat down, get everything nicely framed and in focus and then snap off a series of shots.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  84. This is right up there with Saddam Hussein’s propaganda.

    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_LuEUYo04m9M/TK2VoKdmEVI/AAAAAAAAA-A/OY7puZbAfmE/s1600/baby-milk-plant.png

    “Journalists who were taken to the “baby milk” factory in 1991 saw this hand-lettered sign in English and Arabic.”

    Yes, everything in Saddam’s Iraq had bilingual signs in English and Arabic. Except they don’t seem to speak English very well as we in the U.S. military don’t pronounce “chemical arms” as “Baby Milk.” As far as I know; I retired ten years ago.

    Now, I certainly hope after setting up this propaganda shot someone pulled the whiffle ball off the child’s fingers and took the kid back to the camp where they left his/her pants and shoes.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  85. These racisty racist liberal Democrats!

    “And what they found is that white liberals were less likely to stress competence when talking with someone they believed was black. Conservative white participants did not show this same “competence downshift” when talking to someone they believed was black.

    The researchers found that liberal individuals were less likely to use words that would make them appear highly competent when the person they were addressing was presumed to be black rather than white. No significant differences were seen in the word selection of conservatives based on the presumed race of their partner. “It was kind of an unpleasant surprise to see this subtle but persistent effect”, Dupree says. “Even if it’s ultimately well-intentioned, it could be seen as patronizing.”

    https://hotair.com/archives/2018/11/27/study-white-liberals-perform-competence-downshift-talking-black-person/

    Colonel Haiku (697687)

  86. @54 “it’s curious that these persons would not accept offers of assistance, safety and stable work along the way.”

    Do you have a link to more info about this? I’ve seen this assertion in other quarters too, but haven’t seen any news about it. I’m not denying that you are correct, would like to be informed.

    For my part, I get some information from Christian relief org. World Vision: https://www.worldvision.org/about-us/media-center/world-vision-us-statement-on-central-american-migration

    Their take on it is that these folks are escaping poverty and violence.

    JRH (f51cae)

  87. It is, however, directly proportional to the odds that person will want to hire a gardener, housekeeper, or a nanny at some point, or runs a business or service that relies upon low-skill, low-wage labor. This joke sign from a while back perfectly encapsulates the sentiment.

    JVW (42615e) — 11/27/2018 @ 1:02 pm

    That’s what chaps my hide. Right now rich people who are on the market for landscapers and domestics are calling for everyone who is backing the Border Patrol and immigration enforcement in general a bunch of racist white people who are “in fear of migrants.”

    This is not a generalization. I don’t have a twitter account but I follow twitter via Twitchy and you see some of the most brain-dead comments ever on twitter. Like some wealthy woman who, after calling people like me who know we need to control our borders a bunch of racists then tell other wealthy people they should really pick up the “help” so they don’t get bothered by ICE.

    Sorry, what? During twenty years in the Navy I’m sure I showered with more Hispanics than she has employed. Except I don’t automatically think of “lawn service” or “toilet bowl scrubber” when I think of Hispanics I think of someone flying jets, navigating the ship, or running the nuclear power plant.

    Over fifty percent of Border Patrol agents are Hispanic. There’s a good chance that most of the Border Patrol agents firing tear gas and pepper ball rounds at the rioters were Hispanic, who don’t want the rock-throwing child-abusing illegals in this country then I do.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  88. BTW, what happened to the other kid? In the post on the 25th the woman wearing the same pants and T-shirt had two pantsless, shoeless, diapered children.

    https://twitter.com/BuzzFeedNews/status/1066820954582540288/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1066820954582540288&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fpatterico.com%2F2018%2F11%2F25%2Fillegals-storm-border-south-of-san-diego-throw-projectiles-at-agents%2F

    Did the rental contract on the other one expire?

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  89. Just remember Tillman, JRH, it’s me and the Border Patrol who are the baddies.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  90. 77. Tillman (61f3c8) — 11/27/2018 @ 1:21 pm

    77.Sure, protect the border. But come on, let’s not stoop to using tear gas. You can’t tell me there’s not a better way.

    There’s water cannon, buty that’s what Bull Connor used.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  91. who likes to weaponize children in immigration battles is dirty Mia Love

    she doesn’t value life the way we do (very hateful person)

    happyfeet (d13f58)

  92. Their take on it is that these folks are escaping poverty and violence.

    JRH (f51cae) — 11/27/2018 @ 3:14 pm

    That’s not the Border Patrol sector commander’s take. His take is that these people are not genuine asylum seekers. Right now they are at a legal port of entry; at any time any one of them could put his/her hands up and surrender to Border Patrol and request asylum as a refugee. That would be in strict compliance with U.S. law and Donald Trump’s stated policy. But they do not want to comply with U.S. law. Simply put, the vast majority of them know full well they don’t have a valid claim. Please go back and read the manifesto I posted; they tell you what they want in that press release. The only hope the largely male “caravan” has of getting into the US is if we surrender our sovereignty to them. They aren’t fleeing violence, as they’ll tell anyone who asks. They simply want a better life. I don’t blame them for that, but wanting a better life doesn’t entitle them to asylum than it entitles them to break into your house and squat in it (and if you think I’m making this up you don’t live in a border state).

    This is not conjecture on my part. While the larger MSM outlets have been ignoring this invasion force smaller “new media” types have been doing an excellent job of covering this. Many of those young males have already been deported after serving their time for a variety of felonies. And they aren’t shy about saying so. I commented about one not so young man who told the interviewer that he thinks Trump should pardon him for his attempted murder conviction.

    One of the people advertised as a main organizer of this “caravan” is a former Honduran legislator, radio host, and devout socialist named Bartolo Fuentes. The name of the radio show he hosted was “Sin Fronteras,” or “No Borders” in English. Actually, for all I know his show may still be on the air in Honduras. The name of the show should tell you something about what’s going on. As should their manifesto. He also has a reputation for getting people to join this caravan by making them false promises. I have not doubt he convinced the convicted attempted murderer that if he got to the border Trump would pardon him.

    In any case the people who organized this and the ones borrowing other people’s children so they can play-act as helpless victims of the evil Trump and heartless, racist America aren’t being secretive about their intentions.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  93. Steve57 (0b1dac) — 11/27/2018 @ 2:50 pm

    They bypassed every opportunity they had to apply for asylum as refugees at US consulates and embassies on their way

    First they wouldn’t get it – just enough do so that it is possible to pretend that is not futile – and would have to wait a long time. Second, they wanted to be in the United States, and they knew that people with children would mostly be release pending a decison in a few years.

    and to be able to throw rocks at BP and ICE agents

    We don’t know who did that, or, especially, who organized that, but it was probably people trying to get the U.S. to deny asylum claims.

    The group that organixzed the caravan last spring was Pueblo Sin Fronteras but there are a number of groups, generally understood to be anti-American leftists, which means probably anti-U.S

    Governments like Cuba and Nicaragua and Benezuela (except Venez. has no money of its own) are probably paying for that. This is not because they want people to get asylum easily but for precisely the opposite reason. In Martin Luther King’s marches they did not attack the police. (it helped that there was not actually a legal grounds to refuse to let them pass)

    They also refused to accept asylum in Mexico despite their offer of medical care, jobs, and other forms of assistance.

    some did, some accepted offers to go back to their country. So they are being shaken out. Mexico also deported some of the ringleaders of the rock throwing or whoi they said were ringleaders. But stores in San Ysidro still had very customers on Monday.

    They’ve declared our borders invalid and our immigration and naturalization laws null and void. Being born in Honduras or Guatemala or Bangladesh makes them just as much American citizens as people born here.

    That’s what a person would conclude from reading the decalration of Independence. The self-evident unalienable right of the pursuit of happiness. (Although, because it is self-evident, it is not really necessary to know of or to study the Declaration of Independence.)

    Twentieth Century declarations of human rights avoided saying that. They declared themselves in favor of all sorts of rights except that.

    So, they demand we eliminate our refugee screening process.

    That’s not happening. They’re asking to put into it. I mean that’s what it is at this stage. These are all people who want to surrender and be taken into custody. This is because of U.S. law.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  94. @Steve57. The people behind this are not stupid. Their goal is to cut off the possibilityy of asylum, in order to make dictatorships in Latin America more viable.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  95. 51. JRH (f51cae) — 11/27/2018 @ 10:07 am :

    But the wholesale fear and demonization of migrants is stupid.

    Not stupid at all.

    Trump and others know it is neeeded to make people';s consciences feel all right with the current laws and his policies.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  96. Patterico #73.

    the primary blame for the plight of the shoeless child lies with her mother, who should have used her solid footwear to carry her child away from the mad rush to the border long before any pepper pellets were fired.

    What?! She knew about that?

    She no doubt thought they would either succeed in storming the border (for a while, therefore she was up near the front) like they had successfully stormed the Guatemalan and Mexican borders, or they’d be prevented but who knew about tear gas? You thik the organizers told anyone?

    (

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  97. “There’s water cannon, buty that’s what Democrat Bull Connor used.“

    Fixed it…

    Colonel Haiku (697687)

  98. Steve57 (0b1dac) — 11/27/2018 @ 3:20 pm

    you see some of the most brain-dead comments ever on twitter. Like some wealthy woman who, after calling people like me who know we need to control our borders a bunch of racists

    That’s why the Republicans lost every one of the top 10 wealthiest Congressional districts. Well, that and the repeal of SALT deductions.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  99. Steve57 (0b1dac) — 11/27/2018 @ 4:09 pm

    Right now they are at a legal port of entry; at any time any one of them could put his/her hands up and surrender to Border Patrol and request asylum as a refugee.

    Error!

    Where did you get thsi idea??

    This is not true at all.

    Right now Trump has taken to metering asylum seekers and the wait time is months.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/26/us/politics/migrants-border-trump-.html

    The first members of the caravan arrived at the southwestern border earlier this month to find about 3,000 people already waiting to be processed into the United States — the product of a Trump administration initiative known as “metering.” The policy limits the number of people who can apply for asylum in a single day.

    As a result, newcomers are finding that they will have to wait up to [sic – no number on original] months before they can even begin the lengthy asylum process. That has led to rising tensions among the many people who are holed up.

    b>

    That would be in strict compliance with U.S. law and Donald Trump’s stated policy. But they do not want to comply with U.S. law. Simply put, the vast majority of them know full well they don’t have a valid claim. Please go back and read the manifesto I posted; they tell you what they want in that press release. The only hope the largely male “caravan” has of getting into the US is if we surrender our sovereignty to them. They aren’t fleeing violence, as they’ll tell anyone who asks. They simply want a better life. I don’t blame them for that, but wanting a better life doesn’t entitle them to asylum than it entitles them to break into your house and squat in it (and if you think I’m making this up you don’t live in a border state).

    This is not conjecture on my part. While the larger MSM outlets have been ignoring this invasion force smaller “new media” types have been doing an excellent job of covering this. Many of those young males have already been deported after serving their time for a variety of felonies. And they aren’t shy about saying so. I commented about one not so young man who told the interviewer that he thinks Trump should pardon him for his attempted murder conviction.

    One of the people advertised as a main organizer of this “caravan” is a former Honduran legislator, radio host, and devout socialist named Bartolo Fuentes. The name of the radio show he hosted was “Sin Fronteras,” or “No Borders” in English. Actually, for all I know his show may still be on the air in Honduras. The name of the show should tell you something about what’s going on. As should their manifesto. He also has a reputation for getting people to join this caravan by making them false promises. I have not doubt he convinced the convicted attempted murderer that if he got to the border Trump would pardon him.

    In any case the people who organized this and the ones borrowing other people’s children so they can play-act as helpless victims of the evil Trump and heartless, racist America aren’t being secretive about their intentions.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  100. Oops I quoted too much.

    @STEVE57 As for metering, Breiitbart says it too: (but seems to claim Mexico is OK with it)

    https://www.breitbart.com/border/2018/11/15/mexico-aids-trump-border-reforms-by-metering-caravan-migrants/

    Mexican border officials are aiding U.S. border agents by helping them “meter” the number of migrants who can apply for asylum each day. +

    In Tijuana, for example, a U.S. reporter for the Desert Sun tweeted about the metering policy for migrants claiming asylum:

    At El Chaparral port of entry in Tijuana, Mexican immigration officials say 90 people will be allowed to make asylum claims today. People cheer; some 25 were allowed Monday, around 60 yesterday, we hear.

    The metering is vital because it can operate alongside other asylum reforms to reduce the number of migrants who are released into the U.S. economy before their claims for asylum are heard by U.S. judges….`

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  101. RE; KEnt State

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  102. I suspect (but am not sure) that some (not all) of Trump’s supporters are happy to see people hurt in this encounter.

    I AM sure that the illegal’s lobby wants kids hurt — killed would be better.

    Kevin M (a57144)

  103. It is amazing how many thought-challenged individuals think that a Congressperson in a swing district (like, say, Mia Love or Martha McSally) ought to vote like they were in reddest Idaho. If they are honest and responsible to their constituents, they should vote the conscience of their district. Nothing more, nothing less.

    Kevin M (a57144)

  104. If we really want less illegal immigration take steps to reduce the demand.

    One good way would be to allow young workers to come in legally, rather than having a preference system that favors old people.

    Kevin M (a57144)

  105. A mother climbing the border fence with her two children fell and was empaled on rebar with her two children crying beside her until she was finally pulled off it.

    And this shows what? That the fence is evil? Or that people shouldn’t try to climb spiky fences? I have no doubt that she will sue Trump and some idiot judge will allow it.

    Kevin M (a57144)


  106. While past first ladies have decorated the White House with traditional Christmas wreaths, trees, holly, and lights, Trump opted to mount the heads of her slain foes throughout the executive residence “as a warning.”

    “Did she go too far?” one pundit on CNN pondered. “I gotta say, these heads don’t exactly say ‘peace’ and ‘love’ like a good, old-fashioned wreath would, you know?”

    Speaking to reporters, the First Lady commented, “The skulls bring out the festive joy of the holiday season in our decor. We’re reminded to treasure what we have when we see the skulls of our conquered foes every time we walk through these sacred halls.”

    “It’s all to point us to the reason for the season,” she added.

    When asked what the “reason for the season” is, she stated, “To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.”

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  107. Heh coronello, it probably is the custom in the balkans.

    Narciso (d1f714)

  108. Source: the Babylon Bee

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  109. Slovenia is not in the Balkans, and what they actually put up in the White House look like The She-Hulk’s used tampons.

    nk (dbc370)

  110. Its split off from Yugoslavia its linguistically similar.

    Narciso (d1f714)

  111. 103- Thought the same thing, Col.

    mg (ebf6c2)

  112. Trump could offer them all leis and the Left and MSM (birm) would find something offensive about it. Pretty much like wassername in Mississippi. “OK, guys, here’s a zip of all her speeches and public comments. Ten thousand dollars to whomever finds the most offensive one. Even if it seems innocuous, if you can spin it up to terrible, you can win.

    Kevin M (a57144)

  113. Trump could offer them all leis and the Left and MSM (birm) would find something offensive about it.

    Oh that’s too easy. He would be culturally appropriating Hawaiian custom.

    Although I have to wonder just how Hawaiian that custom actually is. Captain Cook was not killed by a lei…

    Kishnevi (3c63a1)

  114. He tried to kidnap the king, that rarely turns out well.

    Narciso (d1f714)

  115. 117… they need to be reminded, mg. And they need to own it.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  116. If a certain sandwich baron still had privileges here, would he have wanted the migrant horde to get the Sharpstown treatment?

    urbanleftbehind (5e7f00)

  117. Sharpesville

    urbanleftbehind (5e7f00)

  118. Or tlatelco or amritsar, or Paris in 1961.

    Narciso (d1f714)

  119. The sandwich baron still has privileges here. He was not given the bum’s rush, he left on his own.

    nk (dbc370)

  120. “Trump could offer them all leis.”

    He’s more likely to offer them jobs.

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trumps-mar-a-lago-seeks-to-hire-61-foreign-workers

    JRH (f51cae)

  121. Zeke Miller
    @ZekeJMiller
    MEXICO CITY (AP) — The Mexican government says it will award President Donald Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner the highest honor the country gives to foreigners, the Order of the Aztec Eagle

    Think that might just be a way to lure him to an altar, cut out his heart and offer it to the sun.

    harkin (05cfd8)

  122. It’s a risk, but I rate it 50/50.

    Narciso (d1f714)

  123. The trap is the award itself. When you have a narcissistic “it’s all about me” megalomaniac like Trump, the best way to turn him against the people close to him is to praise them and honor them instead of him.

    nk (dbc370)

  124. It also falls under the Emoluments Clause, BTW. He should hurry up and get approval from Congress before the new one is sworn in.

    nk (dbc370)

  125. Ah you’re no fun anymore, the funny thing is Trudeau aka prime minister hans, though it was smarter to hold out.

    Narciso (d1f714)

  126. nk,

    was the Nobel to Obama a violation of the Emoluments Clause?

    NJRob (4d595c)

  127. No, for a lot of reasons, including a precedent set by Theodore Roosevelt and enacted into law, although I would have thought that the fact that the Nobel Peace Prize Committee is not a foreign government would have been a slam dunk.

    nk (dbc370)

  128. I think that Obama did need, and got, Congress’s approval of the charities he gave the Nobel money to, but I haven’t looked it up.

    nk (dbc370)

  129. It was all ok because he got the Nobel for simply not being Bush.

    harkin (05cfd8)

  130. “According to DHS data obtained by Fox News, the U.S. Customs and Border Protection agency has used 2-chlorobenzylidene malononitrile, commonly known as tear gas, 126 times since 2010.

    During the Obama administration, tear gas was used on the border 26 times in 2012, 27 times in 2013, 15 times in 2014, eight times in 2015, and three times in 2016. That compares to 18 times in 2017 and 29 times in 2018 during the Trump administration.”

    It’s chemical weapons and medieval because Orange Man Bad.

    harkin (05cfd8)

  131. Emoluments are not the only things that are verboten. Bribes are, too. And this guy, Jared The Son-In-Law, is getting an award from the Mexican government for performing an official United States government function in a way which pleased the Mexican government. Think about it.

    I think he should turn it down with the bald statement: “I did not do it for you.” And Trump can give him the Presidential Medal of Freedom. He certainly deserves it more than some Las Vegas casino owner or some overdosed long-dead rockabilly hip-swiveler. If he absolutely, positively, must have an Aztec Eagle, and he’ll die if he doesn’t get it, just die, he should get Congress’s approval.

    nk (dbc370)

  132. Adelson is a trained mathematician, and he’s the only major figure except for the guy behind the Narnia films, who is pro Israel, well and conrad black, who should be getting his pardon even though he’s Canadian, and elvis, worked for the dea, so if it was posthumous for melina merkouri, then you’d be game?

    narciso (d1f714)

  133. #136

    Things like Harkin’s comments above are why we need news outlets like Fox News and the like, even if squishy moderates like me usually find it distasteful. When the media guild gets a cause, they can’t seem to report context that allows consumers to get a balanced idea on what’s going on.

    People who watch too much Fox think the caravan is going to send the hordes in who will commence to rape and pillage.

    People who watch too much MSNBC think that there is only a border because orange meany Trump, and why are we trying to have one anyway.

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  134. Steve57 (0b1dac) — 11/27/2018 @ 4:09 pm

    Right now they are at a legal port of entry; at any time any one of them could put his/her hands up and surrender to Border Patrol and request asylum as a refugee.

    Error!

    Where did you get thsi idea??

    This is not true at all…

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75) — 11/27/2018 @ 4:33 pm

    Umm, how do I put this.

    From the San Diego Sector Border Patrol Chief.

    https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2018/11/26/border-patrol-chief-challenges-cnns-narrative-the-majority-of-the-caravan-are-men-and-they-arent-seeking-asylum-n2536497

    During an interview with CNN Monday morning, San Diego Sector Border Patrol Chief Rodney Scott pushed back on the narrative that his agents are tear gassing women and children. He also debunked the talking point that hundreds of illegal aliens who stormed the border over the weekend are simply “peaceful” asylum seekers.

    …”What I saw on the border yesterday was not people walking up to Border Patrol agents and asking to claim asylum,” Scott said. “One of the groups that I watched and several of them were arrested, they passed 10 or 15 marked Border Patrol units walking west to east. Numerous uniformed personnel as they were chanting, waving a Honduran flag and throwing rocks at the agents. If they were truly asylum seekers, they would have walked up with their hands up and surrendered. That is not what took place.”…

    Quick, Sammy! Notify the Sand Diego Sector BP Chief’s office and let them know Rodney Scott is doing it all wrong.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  135. Fox might slide into being the moderate center news channel if the younger Murdochs continue holding away- Tucker or Laura just need the biggest boot to place in their mouth and remainers will fall in line, leaving the true right for OAN or Breitbart.

    urbanleftbehind (5e7f00)

  136. Kushner could negotiate with the foreign minister, because they had a pre existing relationship, when the latter worked in finance,

    the caravan is indeed a total astroturf operation, directed from elements all the way down to the equator, just like the influence ops out of qatar, but fronted by turkey,

    narciso (d1f714)

  137. some overdosed long-dead rockabilly hip-swiveler

    uttered by PDJT and/or his brain trust 48 hours earlier, this could have been as bad for generic Southern lady Senator as Dr. Buechards “Rum, Romanism, and Rebellion” was for James Blaine (lost to Grover Cleveland 1st term).

    urbanleftbehind (5e7f00)

  138. In retrospect Blaine was bad ju ju, he was the one behind the blaine laws, and as foreign minister, he was an unctuous blue nose, think winthorpe from trading places, or another unctuous brahmin of note,

    narciso (d1f714)

  139. This country has diarrhea. Flush the toilet before you plunge.

    mg (ef2c8e)

  140. #141 —

    So much of Fox is Hannity, Tucker and Ingraham blabbing out the Populist part line, and the giggly gang at Fox and Friends merrily giving Trump his morning tweeting points. There is good reporting there, and good reporters there, and that’s to be valued.

    But I don’t see a sudden swing to moderating all of that. Not without the leaders over there torching themselves first, or resigining to become Trump’s Chief of Staff or Communications Director, and then being replaced with non-populist types.

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  141. Melina Merkouri was more than a singer-actress. She was one of the founders of PASOK, the post-junta ruling party. During the reign of the junta, the colonels revoked her Greek citizenship for opposing them. She was later Minister of Culture and Sports.

    So, yeah, I’d say she deserved the Greek equivalent of the Presidential Medal of Freedom more than some jumped-up Las Vegas racketeer, or Colonel Parker’s dyed-hair (true, Elvis’s real hair color was light brown) pompadour model deserve the U.S. Presidential Medal of Freedom. Come on! You know the reason Adelson is getting it is because he gave $100 million to Trump’s campaign!

    nk (dbc370)

  142. that’s the evening hours, the rest is shep doing a bad impression of the simpsons anchorman, kent something or other,

    I was looking for someone as iconic as elvis, mister pressley is dead, knock it off,

    https://amgreatness.com/2018/11/27/what-is-saudi-arabia-to-us/

    the part left off is the role of many of prince salman’s quary in the last unpleasantness, alas papa salman was knee deep in it

    narciso (d1f714)

  143. Mind you the karamlis (would it be correct to call them the Rockefeller of Greece) weren’t much better than these Hellenic Kennedy’s who gave the soviets and the Palestinians an open berth, in the 80s and presided over the financial collapse,

    narciso (d1f714)

  144. I don’t get sky, but it somewhat balances the prog catechism propounded by the bbc, france 24 is the same thing, just crisper graphics, same with deutsche welle,

    narciso (d1f714)

  145. here’s a good article about our useless nutless mattis military (clown military)

    happyfeet (d13f58)

  146. Elvis was a girl thing during the ’60s rock and roll era. Like the Beatles. It is a measure of the progressive detestosteronization of America that in time he acquired a male fan base. Like the Beatles.

    nk (dbc370)

  147. nk:

    When people like John Wayne, Frank Sinatra, Duke Ellington, Aretha Franklin are past winners of an award, then it is reasonable to go ahead and give the award to a similar kind of icon. I wish some of our professional sneering class would use their wikipedia before beating up on Trump. That way, they could retain some of their credibility for when they might actually want to make a serious argument.

    (And hey — if Brooke Astor can score this kind of award, which she did in the Clinton administration, why begrudge Ms. Adelson?)

    List of winners is here:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Presidential_Medal_of_Freedom_recipients

    I think Trump picked dead people because a lot of the live ones he would have picked would not have showed up.

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  148. different department, Pikachu, the same department which couldn’t individually get a clue, weren’t going to get anymore awareness, piled up rocky road style,

    narciso (d1f714)

  149. nk:

    Someone should put you in an elevator and force you to listen to nothing but the hits of 1950-1955, as sung by the male singers of the day. It’s really not macho. Neither is Glenn Miller, for that matter. The original incarnation of Sinatra also is not the Mr. Macho of his 50s stuff.

    Yes, there are very masculine singers before Elvis. They tend to be Bing Crosby, County & Western or afro-american.

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  150. i like the one what sings about how the shark bites with his teeth

    happyfeet (d13f58)

  151. First, I did not say that Elvis and Adelson do not deserve it at all. I said Jared deserves it more. Really! I did! Look again!
    Second, I am yanking your chains.

    nk (dbc370)

  152. 152… meh… watch the following… after several seconds of the breathtaking scenic ruins, I don’t think I’ve seen any more Low-T dancing since that old Monty Python military video… https://youtu.be/CbmbSjeUrxc

    Colonel Haiku (697687)

  153. nk:

    I knew the elevator music threat would get you to climb down…

    Your #152, though, is very wrong. I think even our amateur musician host would be offended by it.

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  154. You had to push it! It is my opinion that you have mistaken what I meant by rock and roll. Or in your understanding of “rock and roll”. Likely the second. I would very gladly listen to Chuck Barry, Buddy Holley or Jerry Lee Lewis in an elevator. Just to name three about whom there is no dispute that what they did was rock and roll, but there are many others as well. Their Greatest Hits, their albums, or their 45s, A and B sides.

    nk (dbc370)

  155. #162 —

    60s Elvis is not why anyone cares about him. In those years, he’s a movie star almost more than anything else. By Beatles time, he’s quickly turning into a has-been appearing in movies produced by Sam Katzman.

    Elvis is a phenomenon from 1956 — and predates Holly and Jerry Lee’s fame. Those two likely don’t happen without Elvis blasting through the charts.

    Late Elvis is like Late Joan Crawford — iconic in their total wrongness. But having major accomplishment behind them that should not be forgotten in all the bletch.

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  156. BTW, happyfeet, “Mack The Knife”, is one of my favoritest songs. More than anything by Elvis or The Beatles. I have heard every version there is (Bobby Darrin’s is good) and can sing the first stanza in the original German. Here it is, from “The Threepenny Opera”, by Kurt Weill and Berthold Brecht who was a total commie during the McCarthy Red Scare but that’s a different story, and one more version by Louis Armstrong.

    nk (dbc370)

  157. When O.J. Simpson was acquitted, Rush Limbaugh played “Mack the Knife is Back in Town” as the introduction to his radio show and several other times that day. That was actually the first time I heard that song.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  158. i get a huge kick out of artifical flowers too

    happyfeet (d13f58)

  159. 142. Steve57 (0b1dac) — 11/28/2018 @ 6:36 am

    Quick, Sammy! Notify the Sand Diego Sector BP Chief’s office and let them know Rodney Scott is doing it all wrong

    He already knows that.

    What he says doesn’t make any sense. How could they pass Border Patrol agents if they were still in Mexico??

    Or is the fence in U,S. territory? I suspect, if so, most of the people there had no idea they were already in the United States.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  160. There are people in the caravan who have been deported whose only hope may be to evade custody. But only an idiot or someone with adifferent goal, would throw rocks.

    Well, actually someone might want to organize a disturbance in one location in order for a small number of people to cross the border in another location because all the BP agents have had their attention diverted.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  161. That lady, Lotte Lenya, singing the German song, you may know her from the James Bond movie, “From Russia With Love”, where she play Rosa Klebb, the KGB lady who is really working for SPECTRE and tries to stick James Bond with a knife she keeps out of sight in the toe of her shoe.

    nk (dbc370)

  162. Here is Mack the Knife in its original context:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMWc4h77e2o

    Appalled (d07ae6)

  163. I see no middle ground here. Either we are a sovereign country or we are not. Do we have the right to enforce our own laws and borders? This is, I think, carefully orchestrated by the organizers of this caravan to produce sympathy and that we give in to their demands. Already the organizers are holding press conferences to demand that we speed up the asylum process.

    If you give in this time, then the next “caravan” will be twice or three times as large, and we might as well give up our right to sovereignty. We cannot take in all of Mexico and Central America just because their systems are broken. Enough of that, and soon our own system of government will be equally broken. Then where will people flee?

    Rochf (877dba)

  164. there’s a lot of american head lice what go hungry every night already

    how can we bring in more if we can’t take care of the ones we have

    happyfeet (d13f58)

  165. Can do Americans need to build that wall.

    mg (ebf6c2)


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