Patterico's Pontifications

10/31/2018

Has Mueller Subpoenaed Trump to the Grand Jury?

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:59 am

Betteridge’s law of headlines says no, and so do I. But that’s the case made by former federal prosecutor Nelson Cunningham at POLITICO. Ed Morrissey at Hot Air will walk you through the evidence and save you the angst of clicking on a POLITICO link. First, Cunningham says, we know this:

[A] sealed grand jury case was initiated in the D.C. federal district court before Chief Judge Beryl A. Howell. We know that on September 19, Chief Judge Howell issued a ruling and 5 days later one of the parties appealed to the D.C. Circuit. And thanks to Politico’s reporting, we know that the special counsel’s office is involved (because the reporter overheard a conversation in the clerk’s office). We can further deduce that the special counsel prevailed in the district court below, and that the presumptive grand jury witness has frantically appealed that order and sought special treatment from the judges of the D.C. Circuit – often referred to as the “second-most important court in the land.”

Cunningham then says that the appeal was particularly fast-tracked for an appeal by a normal witness. Then, at the en banc stage, there was a curious recusal:

And at that point, a very curious thing happened — Judge Gregory Katsas recused himself before the en banc petition was denied. And who is Gregory Katsas? He’s the only current Trump appointee to the DC Circuit, Cunningham notes, as well as a former deputy counsel to Trump.

I think that “as well as” formulation, suggesting that the identity of Katsas as a Trump appointee as the key fact, gets it exactly backwards. Katsas being a Trump appointee should have absolutely nothing to do with this. Presidential appointees rule on important questions involving the president who appointed them, all the time. All. The. Time. The key point here, I think, is that Katsas was deputy counsel to Trump. Keep that in mind as you read this totally misguided passage from Cunningham:

But if the witness were the president himself – if the matter involved an appeal from a secret order requiring the president to testify before the grand jury – then Judge Katsas would certainly feel obliged to recuse himself from any official role. Not only was the president his former client (he was deputy counsel to the president, remember) but he owes his judicial position to the president’s nomination. History provides a useful parallel: In 1974, in the unanimous Supreme Court decision US v Nixon requiring another witness-president to comply with a subpoena, Justice William Rehnquist recused himself for essentially the same reasons.

The United States v. Nixon case certainly does provide a useful parallel, but not in the way Cunningham thinks. Cunningham’s notion that Rehnquist recused himself from the Nixon tapes case in part because he was a Nixon appointee is wrong. How do we know this? Because of a fact that Cunningham does not tell his readers: three other Nixon appointees were in the unanimous majority against Nixon: Warren Burger, Lewis Powell, and Harry Blackmun. The real reason Rehnquist recused himself was because he had been an Assistant Attorney General, close to Richard Kleindienst and John Mitchell.

Similarly, if the litigation in the D.C. Circuit is over Trump, any recusal by Katsas would be because of his past work for Trump, not because Trump appointed him.

But the reason I don’t believe this is simple:

If Robert Mueller subpoenaed Donald Trump to the grand jury, there is no way Donald Trump could keep his mouth shut about it for several weeks.

No way.

So: nice theory, but no sale.

[Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.]

285 Responses to “Has Mueller Subpoenaed Trump to the Grand Jury?”

  1. Defiant Mueller Vows To “Keep On Rapin'”

    this will end in tears

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  2. Patterico:

    I grant you the Trump couldn’t shut up point. But, how would you look at this if we were investigating a President Hillary Clinton? Would the reasoning still seem implausible?

    I think it’s always reasonable to keep in the back of your mind what a rational demagogue would do, when looking at Trump’s actions. He’s not just a random fool.

    Appalled (96665e)

  3. Herr Mueller knows nothing… NOTHING!!!

    Colonel Haiku (6f2264)

  4. 2… Hillary Clinton will never be the President of these United States!!!

    Colonel Haiku (6f2264)

  5. “Defiant happyfeet vows to ‘keep on pushing a story that was discredited as a paid phony hit piece before it was ever even reported'”

    Patterico (115b1f)

  6. Judges who are political enemies are NOT to recuse themselves. They are to rule against you. No prollem.

    Judges who are political friends must recuse themselves. They might be biased and rule for you..
    .
    .
    .
    .
    Lawyers and “ethics” — I am never surprised but it is always depressing.

    Bob the Builder (9af831)

  7. It’s probably Roger Stone, or somebody he knows.

    This could help explain why Gregory Katsas recused himself:

    https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Z3iISvOMa5QJ:https://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/17/greg-katsas-worked-on-white-house-mueller-response-243862+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

    President Donald Trump’s first nominee to the powerful D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals said Tuesday he worked on the White House’s response to special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation of Russian influence in the 2016 presidential election.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  8. 6. That’s true. They only worry about bias in favor of someone.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  9. I really do wish our entire society would tell the Lawyers Guild to GFT.

    The perversion we call “justice today” is quite sad.

    I mean was is not the DOJ who yesterday said exculpatory evidence need not be in a search warrant application ………. and rest assured the Judge will agree with his brothers in arms at the DOJ.

    Same cocktail circuit.

    Bob the Builder (9af831)

  10. Politico making up an October Surprise in the best Fake News Media fashion.

    nk (dbc370)

  11. 6 That’s true. They only worry about bias in favor of someone.

    When Government is biased for the Democrats, OK.

    When Government is biased for the Republican Swampers, Sort of OK.

    When Government is biased for the OrangeMan, Bad.

    … really is something to behold.

    Bob the Builder (9af831)

  12. Yeah… no way Trump would keep his mouth shut as it’d easily feed the “Deep State” meme that much of his supporters believes in…

    Furthermore, Judges loathes to recuse themselves unless they’ve been directly involved with the matters at had, so I do think its curious that Katsas recused himself.

    whembly (b9d411)

  13. This kind of thinking is how a POTUS exercising his right under the constitution to fire a guy using the recommendation of his Deputy AG can have his Deputy AG sick his buddy on for “Obstruction of Justice” knowing full well all the evidence produced was Team Hillary’s invention sprinkled in with exculpatory evidence they ignored to Spy.

    But no cover up at the DOJ or something. They are decent Bureaucrats looking to help this great nation.

    Bob the Builder (9af831)

  14. Judges loathes to recuse themselves unless they’ve been directly involved

    That is BS.

    If it benefits them, they will not recuse.

    Only if downside exists for them personally do they recuse.

    By that theory any DOJ Official looking into Team Hillary appointed by a Democrat would “recuse” themselves.

    They not only didn’t — they went to extraordinary lengths to white wash her criminal behavior.

    Bob the Builder (9af831)

  15. Take judge Contreras, who recused himself after the plea deal, perhaps because of his experte communications with atrzok.

    Narciso (d1f714)

  16. The fisa warrant can’t be declassified because it shows what a waste mi 6 and GCHQ was up to, hence the Manchester link from the bureau.

    Narciso (d1f714)

  17. Cui bono, who didn’t want whitey bulger dead who were the up and coming officials in beantown from the 80s into the 90s.

    Narciso (d1f714)

  18. #4

    I spend my days upset that Donald Trump is President, and grateful that Hillary Clinton is not.

    Appalled (96665e)

  19. Consider how an Islamic state assassin apparently was living in the Oakland area for two years.

    Narciso (d1f714)

  20. Yet DHS didn’t include in the memo,

    Narciso (d1f714)

  21. If Robert Mueller subpoenaed Donald Trump to the grand jury, there is no way Donald Trump could keep his mouth shut about it for several weeks.

    No way.

    Now, where have I read that before?

    LOL.

    Dave (9664fc)

  22. It is obviously difficult to plausibly contend that Donald Trump is capable of any degree of self-discipline, given the Himalayan mountain ranges of evidence to the contrary, but on the other hand, they have clearly decided to try an make the election about anti-immigrant hysteria, and keeping Mueller off the front-pages during the run-up to the election could be a conscious (and logical) aspect of that.

    Dave (9664fc)

  23. 22. My thoughts exactly Dave. I think Spanky does value keeping the media paying attention to the topic of his choice.

    Tillman (61f3c8)

  24. ten·den·tious
    /tenˈdenSHəs/
    adjective
    adjective: tendentious
    expressing or intending to promote a particular cause or point of view, especially a controversial one.
    “a tendentious reading of history”

    Intended to put the Russian investigation in the news just before the election. Watch as all the rest of the Major Scum Media run with it, in accordance with the Detzinformatsiya (actual name of KGB propaganda department) playbook.

    nk (dbc370)

  25. Come to think of it, I haven’t seen him railing against the “rigged witch-hunt” at his recent cultist rallies, either.

    Of course, it might just be getting drowned out by all the other false and/or outrageous things he says.

    Dave (9664fc)

  26. “but on the other hand, they have clearly decided to try an make the election about anti-immigrant hysteria illegal immigration and the need for border control.”

    FIFY… deleted the far-left spin and added a conservative perspective.

    Colonel Haiku (6f2264)

  27. “Sparky” does seem to have total control of what passes for the “minds” of the MSM, Tillman.

    Colonel Haiku (6f2264)

  28. Make that Spanky…

    Colonel Haiku (6f2264)

  29. Because sending 7000+ soldiers to the border to raise hysteria about a caravan that’s months away from the nearest point of entry has NOTHING to do with the election in a week. No sir.

    Dave (9664fc)

  30. Mexico is providing buses, yay!

    Colonel Haiku (6f2264)

  31. @ Dave – if the Mexican government keeps on providing buses, they’ll be at the border a lot sooner than you think. Funny how the Make Believe Media ignore or excuse this.

    CygnusAnalogMan (9c66ec)

  32. We’ll see just how well those buses stand up to an M1-Abrams tank, by jingo!

    Dave (9664fc)

  33. You better call your B-I-L and get them stopped in the estados pesados (its easier to google the term and go to image) – or conversely, states where there is more representation here and industry there, people dont realizing the caravan is presently dinking around in Mexican states that actually were once their own countries or were parts of Guatemala in the past.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  34. hey bob subpoena this

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  35. Still waiting for the Homosexual California Judge to recuse himself from the Law banning gay marriage. A law DEMOCRATICALLY PASSED by the people of California.

    That of course is exemplar of virtue and PWINCIPULLS of our moral betters in the Legal Guild.

    But sure Mueller and Judges have unquestioned integrity when ruling on behalf of the DNC.

    Bob the Builder (9af831)

  36. Appalled #18: you describe precisely how I feel, each day, when I look at the news.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  37. Our host is absolutely, positively right in rejecting the speculation by Cunningham that Judge Katsas recused himself because he was a Trump appointee to the bench, and absolutely right in correcting Cunningham about the Rehnquist precedent. The recusal could properly be based on Katsas having had an attorney-client relationship with Trump as Deputy White House Counsel.

    If Mueller has served Trump with a grand jury subpoena, then the procedural dismissal and re-filing are more likely than not the result of Mueller issuing a superseding grand jury subpoena, compliance with which was for a later date, to get beyond the midterms before this became public and to allow an accelerated appeal with briefing & argument schedules measured in weeks instead of hours.

    I tend to credit the story. It would explain the postponements of Rosenstein’s presumed “Come to Jesus” meetings with Trump and Trump’s subsequent insistence that he’s not on the brink of firing Rosenstein. Working, as always, from the presumption that Trump always does what he perceives to be in the best interests of the Trump Brand, I can — contrary to our host — imagine Trump keeping his mouth shut about having been subpoenaed, doubtless upon threat from every one of his lawyers that they’d all resign en masse if he didn’t, at least until after the midterms.

    Finally, FWIW: My uniform experience has been that the people with the lowest opinion of the legal profession and its enforcement of legal ethics are the very same people who themselves tend to hire the most unethical lawyers (the Cohen/Avennati types) when they get in trouble themselves, at which point they affirmatively want their lawyers to break ethical rules in service of “getting ‘er done,” rules and ethics all be damned.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  38. I wrote in #38 above, “It would explain the postponements of Rosenstein’s presumed “Come to Jesus” meetings with Trump and Trump’s subsequent insistence that he’s not on the brink of firing Rosenstein.”

    To elaborate: If Mueller had already sought permission from Rosenstein to subpoena Trump, and Rosenstein had already given it, then firing Rosenstein soon thereafter would give the Democrats count 1 of an impeachment resolution based on obstruction of justice, relying upon the Nixon draft articles of impeachment which included among its allegations of obstruction Nixon’s Saturday Night Massacre firing of Archibald Cox and Elliot Richardson. Trump’s lawyers surely would have so advised Trump, and they likely would have threatened to resign en masse themselves if Trump ignored their advice and fired Rosenstein anyway.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  39. Rod Rosenstein’s a deeply corrupt individual who sidelined the odious and useless Jeff Sessions (racist) and lawlessly assumed the role of Attorney General, backed only by the jackbooted thugs of the dirty Chris Wray FBI and the supine and compliant CNN Jake Tapper Fake News media

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  40. Trump has managed to keep his mouth shut about, for example, the nature of his disputes with the IRS that have kept the Trump Organization in a state of continuous audit, year after year, and which appears to still be in progress (which we can *cough* safely infer, since Trump hasn’t released any tax returns yet even though promising to release them when the audits are done).

    Beldar (fa637a)

  41. oh noes, i used a bad word

    Dave (9664fc)

  42. Hey, Bob the Building, you wrote (#36):

    Still waiting for the Homosexual California Judge to recuse himself from the Law banning gay marriage.

    How exactly does a judge recuse himself from a law?

    Beldar (fa637a)

  43. “If Robert Mueller subpoenaed Donald Trump to the grand jury, there is no way Donald Trump could keep his mouth shut about it for several weeks.
    No way.”

    Do you also think there is no way more details with names would be leaked to the media?

    harkin (fc9aef)

  44. @ Bob the Builder: Is it possible that judges recuse themselves from a law at the same time they sign the bill?

    HEWITT: Mr. Cruz, will you make a deal about religious liberty?

    TRUMP: … excuse me. She’s a brilliant judge. He’s been criticizing — he’s been criticizing my sister for signing a certain bill. You know who else signed that bill? Justice Samuel Alito, a very conservative member of the Supreme Court, with my sister, signed that bill.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  45. Sheesh, Beldar. It’s all explained in Article XII of the Constitution.

    And here I thought you were a professional.

    Dave (9664fc)

  46. as long as the sun

    continues to shine

    there’s a place in my heart for Trump

    that’s the bottom line

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  47. and when the sun

    begins to fail

    that place for Donald

    will likely be jail

    Appalled (96665e)

  48. we have to stop criminalizing political difference

    it’s wrong and worse it’s tacky

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  49. oops political *differences* i mean

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  50. Trump says he has not received subpoena from Mueller

    this means President Trump has in fact NOT received a subpoena from bob-the-rapist

    so Mr. P was correct!

    good work Mr. P

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  51. If Robert Mueller subpoenaed Donald Trump to the grand jury, there is no way Donald Trump could keep his mouth shut about it for several weeks.

    To be fair, Trump managed to keep his mouth shut throughout all his many years months weeks days hours minutes of studying Con Law to the point where he is now widely acknowledged (many people have said so) as the world’s foremost expert on the 14th Amendment, didn’t he?

    Jerryskids (702a61)

  52. To be fair, Trump managed to keep his mouth shut throughout all his many years months weeks days hours minutes of studying Con Law to the point where he is now widely acknowledged (many people have said so) as the world’s foremost expert on the 14th Amendment, didn’t he?

    Not to mention being the undisputed expert on Article XII, which he alone among ConLaw scholars has even read.

    Dave (9664fc)

  53. #43 Oh Beldar …. The Homosexual California Judge ruled the Democratically Chosen Ban on Gay marriage was “against the constitution of the state” and declared it null and void.

    I commend you for correcting my lax writing.

    I condemn you for protecting corruption so long as a lawyer does it.

    Bob the Builder (9af831)

  54. My father always said “el ladron apoya el ladron.”

    Pretty much my feelings on most in the Legal Profession.

    A license for corruption with the very corrupt covering for each other.

    Bob the Builder (9af831)

  55. it’s ok to do sarcasm on President Trump sometimes i think, but it’s not really something i do myself personally

    it’s just not my thing

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  56. “It’s not fair!”, whined no winner ever.

    I like people who win, not losers who snivel.

    nk (dbc370)

  57. This is how you get a Gay Judge not recusing himself from a legal case To Rid His State of a Democratically Imposed ban on issuing Gay Marriage Certificates.

    “I don’t like the law cuz I am Gay. Presto, I threw the law out!!!”

    Pretty clear case where recusal was mandated and yet not one person is even remotely concerned.

    Heck Rod Rosenstein can be both friendly witness for prosecutor and prosecutor of Trump and yet not one complaint here or anywhere.

    How that ass clown is still in charge speaks to how corrupt the Legal Profession is. PROFOUNDLY corrupt.

    Bob the Builder (9af831)

  58. #58 She saw the large GoFundMe bribe given to Balsey Ford and thought why not ……

    I am sure a few law firms made those payments too, but in this Attorney Client Privilege matters.

    Cohen and Trump not so much cuz PUTIN!!!!!!

    El ladron apoya el ladron.

    Bob the Builder (9af831)

  59. #58 Dave, can something fall apart before the witness is presented?

    I was told I had to at least listen to the women in the Kavanaugh case.

    I am told this women will be presented tomorrow allegedly.

    Are you #FakeNewsing??

    Bob the Builder (9af831)

  60. @58. LOL “Republicans just don’t do this kind of thing.” – Rush Limbaugh

    Ha he apologized yet? But on, that seems so long ago, doesn’t it.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  61. @ Bob the Builder, who wrote, in addressing me (#54):

    I condemn you for protecting corruption so long as a lawyer does it.

    Cite & quote, please?

    Beldar (fa637a)

  62. one assumed basic competence if one designed such devices, not the felix the cat grab bag, I imagine one could design a narrowly tailored eo, which the narrative, will yell ragnarok, btw a great film,

    narciso (d1f714)

  63. Which Ragnarok is a great film?

    nk (dbc370)

  64. now twitter failed to flag the mailer, 50 times, you would think Dorsey would deplatform his own outfit,

    so when they made the pretense about a special master, that was just two scoops of fraud, as they already had a cooperation agreement with cohen,

    narciso (d1f714)

  65. I assume he meant the Thor Ragnarok film. I had fun watching it.

    Dave, nothing wrong with Trump sending a lot of troops in to secure the border. They say less is more, but maybe more is more in this case. I also think Trump has a good point with ending birthright citizenship, albeit he shouldn’t try to change a century+ of understanding of a constitutional amendment with an executive order. What’s funny is that Obama definitely ignored parts of laws on a whim, so this is fair turnabout… but it’s still the wrong way to do it.

    Ending birthright citizenship actually would go a long way toward improving conditions in the many countries that use the USA as a relief valve for their problems.

    Dustin (6d7686)

  66. Still not enough. Remember, our troops now are Millennials. Do they even look up from their iPhones when they shoot?

    nk (dbc370)

  67. they issued the small print edition of the source material, and they were pretty somber, waikiti, has a good hand

    narciso (d1f714)

  68. the troops they are sending, have been tested in Afghanistan and Iraq, they aren’t the weak snowflakes that litter the college campi,

    narciso (d1f714)

  69. Blanchett does have a way of chewing the scenery, almost as readily as Ruffalo,

    narciso (d1f714)

  70. I hated it. Half of it was a ripoff of “Planet Hulk” with Beta Ray Bill; I honestly thought Cate Blanchett was a transexual actor until I saw the credits; and, really, a black Valkyrie? Wagner is spinning in his grave.

    nk (dbc370)

  71. whose brother was killed by a Saudi princess, (the grand daughter of their great spymaster) who was in the movie biz,

    narciso (d1f714)

  72. i’m not that much a fan of the source material, seeing how infiniti wars was a big downer, they never explained how the quinjet got all the way across the galaxy,

    narciso (d1f714)

  73. anyways between covering for bulger, trying to destroy Stephen hatfill’s life, doing a similar thing to the aipac execs, covering for matteen sr, well there isn’t much benefit I could extend to mueller,

    narciso (d1f714)

  74. “Must be a false-flag operation, right?”
    Dave (9664fc) — 10/31/2018 @ 3:13 pm

    That, or a Russian plot.

    Munroe (61bbd7)

  75. @58 Dave

    “Must be a false-flag operation, right?”

    That’s Brain Genius Bill Mitchell’s opinion
    https://twitter.com/mitchellvii/status/1057410111151501312
    “The more I read about this Mueller Rape Case business, the more convinced I am that this is a Democrat dirty trick to pull a “reverse Kavanaugh,” trying to impugn Republicans for “paying women to make up false rape claims against Mueller.””

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  76. oh Letitia james, the rocket surgeon, running for new York attorney general, can’t spell bris,

    narciso (d1f714)

  77. After what the Democrats and their media poodles 🐩 pulled during the Kavanaugh hearings, anything’s possible.

    Colonel Haiku (6f2264)

  78. “Harry Reid was right in 1993, before he and the Democrats went insane…”

    Hahahahahahahahahaha… HA!!!!!!!

    Colonel Haiku (6f2264)

  79. CNN and Ollie Darcy are the go-to reporters for any rock-ribbed conservative!

    Colonel Haiku (6f2264)

  80. Darcy seems to have been replaced with a replicant, camerota seems to have as well,

    narciso (d1f714)

  81. crazed NeverTrumpers
    Obsessed-Compulsive
    they go down easy

    Colonel Haiku (6f2264)

  82. Obsessed-Compulsive
    trite before they went insane
    wake up puppet boy

    Colonel Haiku (6f2264)

  83. these NeverTrumpers
    got uncontrollable urge
    tell all about it

    Colonel Haiku (6f2264)

  84. Dave, nothing wrong with Trump sending a lot of troops in to secure the border.

    He’s not sending them to “secure the border”, he’s using them as political props six days before an election.

    I agree with you on a constitutional amendment to eliminate birthright citizenship for people without legal status.

    Dave (9664fc)

  85. So approximately 70% of the people in the invasion surging toward our southern border are young men. And yet we are being told they do not constitute a threat. Why does the media always side with foreigners and have little to no interest in the concerns of American citizens?

    And why do we read similar opinions here?

    Colonel Haiku (6f2264)

  86. And they all spontaneously left in the last two weeks,

    narciso (d1f714)

  87. But have no fear, NeverTrump… McMuffin is here…

    https://twitter.com/RealSaavedra/status/1057752550059851776/photo/1

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  88. Oh sorry it was 240 tweets,

    No one ever says that coronello, evarr.

    narciso (d1f714)

  89. R.I.P. Willie McCovey

    Icy (c2d6fc)

  90. Trump: If Obama could start DACA via executive order, I can end birthright citizenship via executive order

    Allahpundit nails it:

    Rarely has he stated the logic of Trumpism so succinctly. When Trumpists call out their opponents for doing something objectionable or unconstitutional (as Trump has frequently described DACA), they’re not saying that Americans shouldn’t behave this way. They’re saying they should be allowed to behave just as badly.

    More solid analysis follows, read the whole thing.

    Dave (9664fc)

  91. even if bobby rape-rape did a subpoena on President Trump who cares

    you can just ignore those things

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  92. Judge hanen, saw no statutory support but various figures like John bates that Italian judge guaraldi (sic) all say otherwise.

    Narciso (d1f714)

  93. “I hated it. Half of it was a ripoff of “Planet Hulk” with Beta Ray Bill;”

    I approve of the attempt there was.

    “I honestly thought Cate Blanchett was a transexual actor until I saw the credits;”

    As a sometime player of Japanese RPGs, trannum antagonists have a long and proud history of being accurately portrayed as long-haired pretty-boy alienated world-devourers who toy uncomfortably and mercilessly with normal people before suicidally burning everything down.

    “and, really, a black Valkyrie? Wagner is spinning in his grave.”

    The flashback also accurately showed her as the generally underachieving affirmative action hire of the group who had to take over after Hela killed all the blond ones.

    Ajami (2e89fd)

  94. you can just ignore those things and pray they don’t send you to a west virginia federal prison

    FIFY TML

    nk (dbc370)

  95. #95

    Except in one case Obama created a Right from thin air. Giving legal status to illegals without a law to do so.

    Trump is trying to eliminate a Right that is not enumerated anywhere and has been simply accepted as true cuz ….. cuz someone said so.

    Big diff in my view.

    Bob the Builder (9af831)

  96. #63 Do you support our DOJ withholding exculpatory evidence in the FISA process as alleged?

    DOJ came out yesterday saying that it was OK to do so.

    You were very complimentary of those folks a few posts back. So wondering how you feel about it …..

    Bob the Builder (9af831)

  97. Trump is trying to eliminate a Right that is not enumerated anywhere and has been simply accepted as true

    All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

    Nah, fuggedabouit! Youse ain’t wort’ da boder.

    nk (dbc370)

  98. Yes and it doesn’t mean children and it does mean lawfully admitted,

    Narciso (d1f714)

  99. Trump is trying to eliminate a Right that is not enumerated anywhere and has been simply accepted as true cuz ….. cuz someone said so.

    First, wrong thread.
    Second, I don’t think you know what enumerate means.

    All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

    That’s pretty enumerated. Also accepted as true because someone said so? Yeah, the founders, Congress, the states, and the SCOTUS (multiple times). This is as settled law as law gets.

    Just because you and your orange wubby feelz it should say other words, doesn’t make you, in your view, right. In this case, you are very wrong, really really wrong, totally wrong, the wrongliest.

    There’s a process if you want different words, nah, not an imperial decree. It’s a, say it with me, Constitutional Amendment, it’s right at the front of the doc, you can download it if you want.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (53dc67)

  100. Yes and it doesn’t mean children and it does mean lawfully admitted

    “Lawfully admitted” wasn’t a thing. Born kinda means children, unless there really is a stork thing.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (53dc67)

  101. “This is as settled law as law gets.“
    Colonel Klink (Ret) (53dc67) — 10/31/2018 @ 9:31 pm

    The sad sorry truth about settled law is that it is no more and no less than what a judge at any particular time says it is. If you doubt that, bone up on the “penumbras and emanations” clause.

    Munroe (025c2b)

  102. Because in the olden days you tried to sneak into a country, first you’d get a round of grapeshot as a warning sign then they’d sink your boat,

    Narciso (d1f714)

  103. @ Bob the Builder: Perhaps you missed my question. Let me repeat it.

    You wrote, in addressing me (#54):

    I condemn you for protecting corruption so long as a lawyer does it.

    Cite & quote, please? Demonstrate where I’ve “protect[ed] corruption so long as a lawyer does it,” and be very specific — or admit that you’re a liar.

    Because I’m calling you a liar. I’m calling you out, and I intend to see whether this blog’s new rules are or aren’t serious.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  104. You should volunteer to be a moderator, Beldar.

    DRJ (15874d)

  105. #95 —

    Not only is the approach the logic of Trumpism, it’s the anchor of Trump’s support. It’s the message of the huckster and the swindler — we’re doing this extra legal thing together, like all those other people do, and we’ll get away with it. We’re really not about holding those other people to the rules — we’re about exquisitely violating them ourselves, and if you stick with us, you might get some of the benefits of that.

    You are either seduced, or repulsed. Which kind of explains the mystification of some of our posters on why certain folks here react so badly to Trump. They are seduced — they don’t get the repulsed.

    Appalled (96665e)

  106. he’s right though dirty paul ryan was all quivering and cheek-spread for daca daca daca

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  107. propaganda slut Richard Cowan at Reuters crafted this little turd-gem for us today

    Both Republican Kevin McCarthy and Democrat Pelosi are mainstream California politicians, but the contrast between the two is stark, as congressional elections near on Tuesday.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  108. Poor, dumb Donald. He may expel his own children from the country:

    Donald Trump’s first wife—and the mother of his children Don Jr., Ivanka, and Eric—didn’t become a naturalized U.S. citizen until 1988, years after they were born. So it’s unclear whether they would be considered U.S. citizens under their father’s plan.

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/trevor-noah-exposes-trumps-birthright-citizenship-hypocrisy-your-kids-mom-was-an-immigrant?ref=home

    Tillman (61f3c8)

  109. and dirty lick-lick Richard Friedman (who himself has trouble holding down a job for too terribly long) smears the holy-loving crap out of Kanye today

    Kanye you need to get your ass back on the plantation NOW

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  110. Which kind of explains the mystification of some of our posters on why certain folks here react so badly to Trump. They are seduced — they don’t get the repulsed.

    Some, I suppose. And some because they can relate with a man who has a smaller than average penis.

    nk (dbc370)

  111. oh please he’s got a fantastic penis everybody knows that

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  112. Is blatant racism allowed here? happyfeet (28a91b) — 11/1/2018 @ 6:49 am

    Tillman (61f3c8)

  113. you should work at zuckertwat’s facebook you’re so concerned with what other people say – they pay good money for that

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  114. Why do you hate everybody happyfeet?

    Tillman (61f3c8)

  115. i love lots of people for example Donald Trump and Freddie Prinze Jr.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  116. Kavanaugh declines $600,000 raised in his defense

    “Justice Kavanaugh did not authorize the use of his name to raise funds in connection with the GoFundMe campaign. He was not able to do so for judicial ethics reasons. Judicial ethics rules caution judges against permitting the use of the prestige of judicial office for fund-raising purposes.

    Justice Kavanaugh will not accept any proceeds from the campaign, nor will he direct that any proceeds from the campaign be provided to any third party. Although he appreciates the sentiment, Justice Kavanaugh requests that you discontinue the use of his name for any fund-raising purpose.”

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/brett-kavanaugh-declines-600-000-raised-in-his-defense?_amp=true&__twitter_impression=true

    harkin (7f4688)

  117. Don Jr,better put a ring on it with Newsoms ex (before his dad gets ideas on Puerto Rican citizenship).

    urbanleftbehind (49b0be)

  118. Chicago is Chance’s turf. Kanye, whoever she is, should go back to her homies.

    nk (dbc370)

  119. i used to shop at j crew then michelle obama started pretending to shop there and i was like oh this isn’t really a brand for me it’s a snotty brand for socialist harvard bims who wanna pretend they’re not too good to wear j crew

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  120. CH I read the linked article.

    “He’s not changing the Constitution by executive order. He’s not reinterpreting the Constitution by executive order. He’s getting the executive branch under control and saying, ‘This is what the 14th Amendment means,’” Levin said

    This is bunk. This is a huge setback to limited government. If it works I expect our next Lefty president to explain what all sorts of things about the 2nd amendment means.

    Time123 (c9382b)

  121. anchor babies are gross cause they’re not real babies they’re transactional babies that nasty head lice people use to extort welfare benefits from taxpayers

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  122. Yes I thought wing commander was an unappreciated film, yes the ap is lying for palomino Pelosi, for stick em Zuckerberg (you know what he did to the vinklevossi and Edward savarin) our possum Congress wont do anything without a cattle prod. And even then its diubtful

    Narciso (9f1d9b)

  123. Good grief does this fool understand the diff Terence between naturalized and natural born , you have to earn the former, I guess he’s just capetown itinerant idiot.

    Narciso (9f1d9b)

  124. We need a Leader to rule by fiat! With a smaller than average penis, like the one Germany had a while back.

    nk (dbc370)

  125. yes yes that’s a fun little movie

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  126. Ryan lives in perhaps the most vanilla district imaginable, bluto whose challenging his gope dedazo, is a crazy man.

    Narciso (9f1d9b)

  127. Thanks for sharing your interpretation, Time.

    Colonel Haiku (6f2264)

  128. That would be randy ‘the stache’ Bryce, for those without the Rosetta,

    Narciso (9f1d9b)

  129. I know someone who lives in that district, one has to keep avoiding the wrong lizard.

    Narciso (9f1d9b)

  130. His district is Illinois’ extra district just a couple of stand-ins for Aurora and Elgin (Kenosha and Racine) and prairie past I-94 out to I-39/I-90.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  131. Now multiply by a factor of thousands and you can see why Trump was mad at Dave Roberts: http://sports.yahoo.com/red-sox-fan-stabbed-five-times-fight-dodgers-fans-world-series-game-5-203627334.html

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  132. Haiku:

    Thanks for the link. It’s useful to have the theory underlying the assertion of power. Here it is for everyone else

    At Levin’s request, Horowitz explained how an executive order issued by Trump ending birthright citizenship for children of illegal immigrants would not be lawless because the order would be pursuant to law. It is not like Obama’s illegal DACA amnesty, which was an order contrary to law.

    “For 130 years there’s an uninterrupted stream of case law, including cases written by the Wong Kim Ark justice, Horace Gray, saying that if you come here without consent and you do not have legal status, it is, in the most literal and physical sense, as if you are standing outside of our boundaries in terms of access to the courts, in terms of rights, in terms of everything,” Horowitz said. This means that the 14th Amendment does not grant citizenship to the children of illegal aliens.

    Horowitz made the point that our modern concept of birthright citizenship came about not as the result of a court decision, not by an act of Congress, but by the executive branch’s lax enforcement of immigration law. Levin pointed out that if birthright citizenship is a bureaucratic creation, as the chief of the bureaucracy, President Trump has the right to correct years of extra-constitutional behavior by the executive branch.

    Basically, Horowitz is claiming that Wong Kim Ark is distinguishable and there is judicial precedent (it must be lower court precedent from the 19th century written by Judge Gray) excluding unauthorized entrants to the USA from birthright citizenship. I assume he believes, then, that legal residents who have children have birthed citizens. (This contradicts Trump’s comments, by the way). He’s officially interested me with that comment: I have not seen that reported.

    Horowitz blames the bureaucracy for the idea of birthright citizenship (meaning its a regulation that gifted us with the idea, not legislation). Love to understand the basis of that claim. That’s how Horowitz gets to the idea an EO would work. I think Trump would need to work within the Administrative Procedures Act, if this involves a regulation. The Dreamer thing is a non-enforcement policy, IIRC, which is how Obama could give it immediate effect. Something like this would require a notice and comment period, and not be an arbitrary and capricious interpretation of current law.

    Levin’s comment Time123 quoted above doesn’t strike me as a fair summary of Horowitz’s reported comments, and is frankly garbage. There is “appropriate legislation” that the President must interpret, and not even the most extravagant view of the “Unitary Executive” gives the President the authority to redo the rules on citizenship.

    Appalled (96665e)

  133. Point being he’s not likely to be affected by what he doesn’t do, I think one could craft a narrow eo, wont solve the problem, there are too many interests at stake.

    Narciso (9f1d9b)

  134. The Gamemaster’s people used their dimension gates to pull in Hulk’s quinjet so they’d have a new contender. That’s why it mysteriously disappeared in the previous movie.

    Ingot9455 (f12c00)

  135. WaPo headline:

    ‘Welcome to the white man’s world,’ cop told Latino teens after allegedly beating them

    Welcome to Trump’s sick, brutal world.

    Tillman (61f3c8)

  136. WaPo is on board with CNN’s Don Lemon and his sick, twisted, racisty racist opinion shared with the world:

    “We have to stop demonizing people and realize that the biggest terror threat in this country is white men, most of them radicalized to the right, and we have to start doing something about them.”

    Colonel Haiku (89ebb5)

  137. “We have to stop demonizing people and realize the biggest terror threat in this country is white men, most of them radicalized to the right, and we have to start doing something about them. There is no travel ban on them. There is no ban – you know, they had the Muslim ban. There is no white-guy ban. So what do we do about that?”

    Colonel Haiku (89ebb5)

  138. I’m sorry your feelings were hurt.

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  139. why do people advertise on CNN when they have these people spewing hate and racism all over white people every day?

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  140. “A new POLITICO/Morning Consult poll conducted over the past fractious, violent week shows a majority of voters think that President Donald Trump has done more to divide the country than unite it since he took office last year — but that the national news media are even worse.

    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/01/poll-more-voters-say-media-divide-country-than-trump-952209?nname=playbook&nid=0000014f-1646-d88f-a1cf-5f46b7bd0000&nrid=00000156-e66f-d392-a576-feefd55a0003&nlid=630318

    Gee, I wonder why….

    harkin (fc9aef)

  141. Dave, no inconvenient truths for this so-called President. Truth is expendable, just like non-white people.

    Tillman (61f3c8)

  142. “‘We are the party of Lincoln,’ the man screamed, while waving the flag Lincoln defeated.”
    https://i.redd.it/trbwdjbsh7t11.jpg

    Tillman (61f3c8)

  143. “When I can, I tell the truth.”

    And when he doesn’t, his devotees tell us it isn’t really a lie; it’s only an exaggeration, and “an exaggeration is not a lie.” If he’s hyperbolic in attacking others, it’s merely “rhetoric,” and thus morally defensible, unlike the hyperbolic and untruthful attacks that come from other people.
    Trump has openly expressed a belief that he can get away with what others cannot, and that whatever serves himself must be good and right. Too many of his supporters enthusiastically endorse his self-centered ethics.

    Radegunda (dcc663)

  144. “We are the party of Lincoln,’ the man screamed, while waving the flag Lincoln defeated.”

    Lincoln probably wouldn’t have gone Nikki Haley on those regional heritage flags to be quite honest, but political assassinations tend to put everyone in a foul and unforgiving mood.

    151: Sometimes the only way to get the media to print a truth they’d rather not print at all is to exaggerate about it and bring out their pedantic fact-checker to say things like “you’re wrong, it’s only 75% of lawyers that are anti-Trump, not 90%!

    The national media twists and lies about things all the time for money, influence, and personal vendetta, lying to them and other people engaged in total warfare with you is as defensibly routine as lying to a pollster.

    Lies are armaments in the Great Cold Civil War, if you want them to start, work toward an armistice…or victory for one side.

    Ajami (e925a0)

  145. *stop

    Ajami (e925a0)

  146. Them boys look like future Cesar Sayocs.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  147. Speaking of lies: Dave’s link led me to another, from which I learned that Scaramucci’s book is titled “Trump: The Blue-Collar President.”
    Has anyone ever seen Donald Trump doing any actual blue-collar work? Anything that gets his clothes dirty, aside from the occasional grass stain on his golf pants? Has he even mowed his own lawn or pulled weeds or trimmed hedges?

    Trump spent his life aiming to be recognized far and wide as one of the wealthiest of rich elites, boasting about and probably exaggerating his wealth, surrounding himself with ostentatious luxury, routinely declaring his sense of superiority to all others in every way. And he found that licensing his name was an easier and much less risky way to get richer than paying others to build things.

    Then he discovered that he could feed his craving for status and adulation by pledging to beat up the enemies of the regular folks whom he would otherwise scorn as “losers,” and he boasted about how much they loved him.
    If he happens to promote a policy that happens to benefit some regular folks, that’s well and good. But it’s ridiculous to suggest that he has any deep, sincere empathy with blue-collar people or any real connection with their lives.

    Radegunda (dcc663)

  148. cesar demonstrated poor impulse control

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  149. He was a waste of great deep cover agent potential. He looks a lot like the guey/cabron Hongos (Hodurans) that work out at my LA Fitness.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  150. “When I can, I tell the truth.”

    Aye Carumba! That’s less George Washington and more Bart Simpson.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  151. Radegunda:
    Trump tells the story that his dad started him out as a carpenter in one of his hotels to learn the business from the ground up. He lasted three weeks.

    Also, if you look on youtube, you can hunt up a video of Trump on one of those Undercover Boss type reality shows where he ‘steps into’ the shoes of his workers for a day. He walks dogs for the conceirge service, serves as a waiter, and cleans a hotel restroom (but not the toilet because he’s a bit of a germophobe).

    Ingot9455 (f12c00)

  152. so dish is getting greedy and wants more money to carry the hbo

    this seems kind of ill-considered

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  153. “Has anyone ever seen Donald Trump doing any actual blue-collar work?“

    Not with my own eyes, but I’ve heard he’s been seen moving into various heads, where he lives rent-free for many, many months.

    Colonel Haiku (d6d143)

  154. I condemn you for protecting corruption so long as a lawyer does it.

    Good enough for moderation. See ya, Bob the Builder.

    Patterico (bd09f6)

  155. if you come here without consent and you do not have legal status, it is, in the most literal and physical sense, as if you are standing outside of our boundaries in terms of access to the courts, in terms of rights, in terms of everything,”

    That is generally the case, but that’s talking about someone who attempts to come in legally and is stopped at the border. Who comes on a ship, or at an airport. They are considered to hwve never been actually in the United States. They need to be confined.

    Knauff v. Shaughnessy, 338 U.S. 537 (1950) I think is one of the cases in point. Although maybe this has nothing to do with it. The opinions and dissents coincern discretion and what did Congress really intend to do.

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/338/537

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/338/537

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  156. Not with my own eyes, but I’ve heard he’s been seen _____ various heads, ____ he ____ ___ free for many, many months.

    If you mad-lib a few words mid sentence, that proves nk’s theory correct.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  157. #159 – thanks. I’ve heard rumors to that effect, but nothing about Trump in all the time I’v been aware if him suggests an inclination to do physically demanding or dirty work.
    I’ve probably done more “blue-collar” work than Donald Trump ever has, if you just count chores at home and pre-professional jobs (waiting tables etc.) I have close relatives who have spent their lives in blue-collar work and who are insulted by the notion that Donald Trump is somehow “one of them.”

    Radegunda (dcc663)

  158. 68. Dustin (6d7686) — 10/31/2018 @ 3:39 pm

    Dave, nothing wrong with Trump sending a lot of troops in to secure the border.

    It’s total nonsense. They have nothing to do because it is in no way the kind of invasion they are trained or expected to deal with.

    Ending birthright citizenship actually would go a long way toward improving conditions in the many countries that use the USA as a relief valve for their problems

    Exactly how? It will force good government? That’s why strong dictatorships prevent people from leaving?

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  159. 161 — I spend as little time thinking about Donald Trump as I can. But when I’m confronted with the lies his devotees tell to justify their unconditional hero-worship, I’m moved to state some facts about him. When I see double standards and moral relativism deployed in his service, I’m moved to speak truth to power.

    Radegunda (dcc663)

  160. Thanksgiving has come early; ‘Crazy Uncle’ is serving up a rambling, incoherent speech-or-something from the WH. Pass the stuffing.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  161. Yeah, that’s what they all say… kind of like the Dos Equis guy… “don’t spend a lot of time, but when I do…”

    Colonel Haiku (d6d143)

  162. “‘We are the party of Lincoln,’ the man screamed, while waving the flag Lincoln defeated.”

    Should have just played ‘Dixie

    “FELLOW CITIZENS: I am very greatly rejoiced to find that an occasion has occurred so pleasurable that the people cannot restrain themselves. [Cheers.] I suppose that arrangements are being made for some sort of a formal demonstration, this, or perhaps, to-morrow night. [Cries of `We can’t wait,’ `We want it now,’ &c.] If there should be such a demonstration, I, of course, will be called upon to respond, and I shall have nothing to say if you dribble it all out of me before. [Laughter and applause.] I see you have a band of music with you. [Vocies, `We have two or three.’] I propose closing up this interview by the band performing a particular tune which I will name. Before this is done, however, I wish to mention one or two little circumstances connected with it. I have always thought `Dixie’ one of the best tunes I have ever heard. Our adversaries over the way attempted to appropriate it, but I insisted yesterday that we fairly captured it. [Applause.] I presented the question to the Attorney General, and he gave it as his legal opinion that it is our lawful prize. [Laughter and applause.] I now request the band to favor me with its performance.’” – Abraham Lincoln, on news the Civil War had ended.

    harkin (fc9aef)

  163. The only history they know is of the revisionist variety, harkin.

    Colonel Haiku (d6d143)

  164. ‘I’ve probably done more “blue-collar” work than Donald Trump ever has’
    Radegunda (dcc663) — 11/1/2018 @ 1:22 pm

    Yeah, but I’ll bet you haven’t done as much “blue-collar” work as actual blue-collar workers, many of whom voted for Trump.

    I guess they got hoodwinked just like those blue-collar Reagan Democrats were.

    Munroe (e751f4)

  165. This is te meat of the Lincoln quote:

    I have always thought `Dixie’ one of the best tunes I have ever heard. Our adversaries over the way attempted to appropriate it, but I insisted yesterday that we fairly captured it.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  166. Colonel Haiku (d6d143) — 11/1/2018 @ 1:46 pm

    It’s revisionist history that Lincoln fought the troops under that flag and defeated them? That’s as twisted as Trump.

    Tillman (61f3c8)

  167. I think, upon seeing the Rebel Flag after all this time and in the situations it’s trotted out, he’d either laugh at the toothlessness of it or be offended that the traitors who attacked our country would dare to stand behind it.

    Regardless, racists proudly claiming to be in the “party of Lincoln” is laughably ignorant.

    Tillman (61f3c8)

  168. Oprah 2020! :)

    Tillman (61f3c8)

  169. “Anticipating the South’s political and individual hostilities toward the North at the end of the Civil War, Lincoln encouraged leniency toward the South. He opposed the punitive measures advocated by congressional radicals, and he told victorious Union generals “to let the enemy up easy.” He continued to believe, as he had throughout the war, that the rebel states had never really been out of the Union. Thus, in the face of considerable public and congressional opposition, he advocated early elections by loyal minorities to reconstitute the governments of the Southern states.

    If Lincoln had completed his second presidential term, it is hard to imagine that he could have deflected the retribution inflicted on the South. He was more successful in his attempts to reach out to Union veterans and the widows and orphans of the fallen. However, many Southerners were well aware that the assassination of President Lincoln was a loss for the entire nation.”

    With Malice Toward None: The Abraham Lincoln Bicentennial Exhibition

    harkin (fc9aef)

  170. Over half a million people died in our Civil War, harkin. But to hear you tell it, it was a walk in the park and Lincoln kept everyone from dying. Thanks to Lincoln, it was just a big ol’ pillow fight. Talk about revisionist history.

    Tillman (61f3c8)

  171. Lincoln was a generous and magnanimous leader in victory, guided by his faith. Far different than what Tillman believes him to have been.

    Colonel Haiku (d6d143)

  172. Perhaps Oprah will provide you a car, Tillman.

    Colonel Haiku (d6d143)

  173. 114 This claim is not true. Nothing trump has done would deny citizenship to his own children.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  174. BTW, how did we let last weekend pass without noting the ten-year anniversary of the bogus Ted Stevens conviction? Maybe federal prosecutors were too busy high-fiving each other.

    https://www.rollcall.com/news/recalling_the_injustice_done_to_sen_ted_stevens_commentary-237407-1.html

    Munroe (97810f)

  175. Speaking of civil wars, deeply crazy in the eyes… https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/democrats-hidden-civil-war/

    Colonel Haiku (d6d143)

  176. 172 — A fair number of wealthy people also voted for Trump. So?

    I’m not making a point about how people voted, but about the counterfactual notion that Trump is just like a regular guy because he’s coarse and vulgar — while he’s boasting about being richer and better and more successful; about his ability to bed “top” women who are married to other men; about being able to commit a violent crime in plain sight and not lose any fans.
    The fact that lots of regular folks hero-worship Trump doesn’t mean he truly empathizes with them. It means they wanted the rich celebrity to beat up their enemies, and they wanted to imagine that they’re just like the rich celebrity. Trump was not the only candidate willing and able to implement polices that might improve their lives. He certainly wasn’t the one who best understood the lives of average Americans.

    Radegunda (dcc663)

  177. President Trump’s doing the good policies and steering a course to a more prosperous tomorrow

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  178. Lupe Occasional-Cortex’s eyes are just this side of Ozzy Osbourne’s bite-teh-head-off-a-bat cocaine eyes…

    Colonel Haiku (d6d143)

  179. “Over half a million people died in our Civil War, harkin. But to hear you tell it, it was a walk in the park and Lincoln kept everyone from dying. Thanks to Lincoln, it was just a big ol’ pillow fight. Talk about revisionist history.”

    Please quote me where I said anything that depicted the Civil War as a walk in the park or a pillow fight.

    Btw – my two posts on this were almost entirely quotes from Honest Abe himself and a bicentennial project on the man.

    My entire personal contribution was “Should have just played ‘Dixie’.

    I won’t copy the new standard of demanding appy polly loggies but waiting to hear how five words about requesting a tune could have forced you to jump the rails.

    harkin (fc9aef)

  180. He missed teh bus.

    Colonel Haiku (d6d143)

  181. Get your Nazi on at Kentucky’s Gun show:

    LOUISVILLE, KY (WAVE) – A KKK robe and Christmas ornaments with swastikas on them were for sale during a gun show at the Kentucky Expo Center over the last weekend of October.

    https://www.wave3.com/2018/10/31/nazi-christmas-ornaments-sale-gun-show-many-want-them-banned/

    Tillman (61f3c8)

  182. harkin, you were sugar coating it. Of course Loncoln was trying to calm the storm, after the war ended.

    Tillman (61f3c8)

  183. Exactly how? It will force good government? That’s why strong dictatorships prevent people from leaving?

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75) — 11/1/2018 @ 1:25 pm

    Think of it this way: there is a lot of desperation in the nations south of our own. That desperation should direct its energy towards the corruption in their governments, local to national. Instead, so much of it just comes here for a better life. This is the mechanism that perpetuates the misery.

    Dustin (e01605)

  184. 189… “The Democrats are the party of the Ku Klux Klan… you look at the most racist — you look at the Dixiecrats, they were Democrats who imposed segregation, imposed Jim Crow laws, who founded the Klan. The Klan was founded by a great many Democrats.”

    Colonel Haiku (d6d143)

  185. don lemon’s a very stinky racist he hates and hates on people just for their skin color (cnn racist)

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  186. You are 100% wrong Haiku. As we speak, Spanky is using racism to try to win the elections. He’s a shameless bigot that way.

    Tillman (61f3c8)

  187. “harkin, you were sugar coating it. Of course Loncoln was trying to calm the storm, after the war ended.”

    Once again, feel free to quote ME on anything I said that depicted the Civil War as a walk in the park or a pillow fight.

    Last chance, otherwise you’re just deflecting.

    harkin (fc9aef)

  188. harkin, the quotes you chose to use say everything. Never mind that hundreds of thousands of us were killed, you chose the kind words after the war was won. That does not mean that he had no resolve in his beliefs.

    Tillman (61f3c8)

  189. Deflection. No quotes from ME. Duly noted.

    harkin (fc9aef)

  190. @180. A Ford Caravan; loaded. Steel-belted radials, too; all the features, Swedes, Norwegians and Finnish could love.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  191. “The Democrats are the party of the Ku Klux Klan”

    Why are all the klukkers Republicans now?

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  192. These folks never wise-up to the sting and must lie to even have a chance of being elected… https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/10/31/andrew-gillum-exposed-by-staffers-in-undercover-video-this-is-a-fed-up-state/

    Colonel Haiku (d6d143)

  193. Trump is being proactive about the invasion of illegals, Tillman. Why wait until it becomes a crisis that he should never let go to waste?

    https://goo.gl/images/aKypXA

    Colonel Haiku (d6d143)

  194. because the confederacy saw Lincoln as an existential threat, who knows what they would have thought of seward was the true blue abolitionist, and an anglo file,

    https://securitystudies.org/khashoggi-case-analysis-of-an-information-operation/undefined

    tying up loose ends,

    narciso (d1f714)

  195. Fremont the 1 day California Republic Perez would have been straight up genocidal on the seceshes.

    urbanleftbehind (49b0be)

  196. *president

    urbanleftbehind (49b0be)

  197. Why are all the klukkers Republicans now?
    Davethulhu (fab944) — 11/1/2018 @ 4:09 pm

    Not all of them. The gay Klukkers remained and came out of the closet, gave up their guns and now “occupy” themselves with terrorizing any minorities who leave the political plantation. As for the straight klukkers, prolly because their party became too radical for them; blacks had become both fully armed and mentally enslaved; and when the Dems wanted to ban guns, well, it is still a free country. Anyone can be a RINO.

    felipe (023cc9)

  198. Why are all the klukkers Republicans now?

    They’re not.

    nk (dbc370)

  199. “Anyone can be a RINO.”

    Why do white supremacists feel welcome in the Republican party?

    “They’re not.”

    Yeah, they pretty much are.

    Davethulhu (02d505)

  200. Why are people who hate America feel welcome in the Democrat party? That’s ever bit as legitimate a question as yours.

    JVW (51ab8f)

  201. Strike the word “feel” in my previous comment.

    JVW (51ab8f)

  202. There damned if they hire and damned if they don’t hire generic whiteboy, that’s how and why the O’Keefes get their scoop. The converse would be a possible discrimination lawsuit against the campaign. The other extreme application of such caution would be upon a camo wearing white man who is a billiards enthusiast or musician with his “axe” getting the door slammed shut, cops called and CCW carrying worshippers mobilized by an AME curch, Hispanic parish. synagogue or mosque.

    urbanleftbehind (49b0be)

  203. Same reason Ira and hamas were in the labour party. Baroness tonge with her hot take on pittsburgh

    https://dailycaller.com/2018/11/01/andrew-gillum-anti-semitic-event/

    narciso (d1f714)

  204. Why are all the pedophiles Democrats?

    nk (dbc370)

  205. technically Mitt Romney’s not a democrat

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  206. Just to be clear, are you JVW and you nk claiming that the majority of white supremacists aren’t Republican?

    Davethulhu (02d505)

  207. Is it possible to be a Republican and not be a white supremacist?

    Munroe (82bd1b)

  208. @216

    Of course. As a notable example and despite what Kanye said, I don’t think George Bush was a white supremacist.

    Davethulhu (02d505)

  209. Just to be clear, are you JVW and you nk claiming that the majority of white supremacists aren’t Republican?

    Yes, positively, absolutely, yes. They’re Wallace Democrats/Dixiecrats who did not go with the Democrats when the Democrats became the party of hippies, abortion and sexual perversion. After floundering in the wilderness for decades, alongside the Communists, the Socialists and the Libertarians, they hitched their wagon to Trump in 2016 because even though he does not hate Jews and blacks, he seems to hate Mexicans and Muslims. The same way the Communists and Socialists have now hitched their wagons with the Democrats.

    nk (dbc370)

  210. “They’re Wallace Democrats/Dixiecrats who did not go with the Democrats when the Democrats became the party of hippies, abortion and sexual perversion.”

    Did they all move out of the south to San Francisco? Or are you saying that Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia are hotbeds of “hippies, abortion, and sexual perversion.”

    https://www.270towin.com/historical_maps/1968_large.png

    (The yellow states are ones that Wallace carried)

    Davethulhu (02d505)

  211. Except he was able to do deals with Lopez obrador more readily than with prime minister zoolander, and you saw his alliance with the gulf states, the qataris and the Iranians are the odd men out.

    Narciso (d1f714)

  212. Oh, wait, I misread your point. Disregard the above post.

    Are you saying, instead, that the “Wallace Democrats” weren’t Republican until 2016?

    Davethulhu (02d505)

  213. A micron on topic, but I’d like to see Bannon and Stone “fight fight”: http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/414372-ex-trump-campaign-officials-discussed-roger-stones-ties-to-wikileaks

    urbanleftbehind (49b0be)

  214. I’m saying that I’ve answered enough tendentious questions.

    nk (dbc370)

  215. Well, the southern strategy has been a slower moving trend than reported with several fits and starts (Carter, Clinton, Cleland, occasional D govs in the late 90s/early 00s )between 1968 and 2010 about. One could say McCaskill, Manchin and Donnelly are trying to suck the last capita from the empty gas tank of Dixiecrat.

    urbanleftbehind (49b0be)

  216. I dont know how vapors became “capita”.

    urbanleftbehind (49b0be)

  217. Automistake is bad juju,

    Narciso (d1f714)

  218. You used to be master of that malady.

    urbanleftbehind (49b0be)

  219. Davethulhu (02d505) — 11/1/2018 @ 5:45 pm

    I think you just gave yourself away.

    felipe (023cc9)

  220. He was using randy credico a sometime comic full time left wing nut.

    Narciso (d1f714)

  221. “I think you just gave yourself away.”

    How so?

    Davethulhu (02d505)

  222. 228… let him work to figure it out, felipe. It can be a personal growth step.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  223. In other news if one cared one would point out how ABC smothered the Connors with a pillow.

    Narciso (d1f714)

  224. “I’ve probably done more “blue-collar” work than Donald Trump ever has, if you just count chores at home and pre-professional jobs (waiting tables etc.) I have close relatives who have spent their lives in blue-collar work and who are insulted by the notion that Donald Trump is somehow “one of them.””

    Unless you’ve done general contracting, a job involving lifting and carrying constantly, anything involving powered equipment or a class on forklift safety, military of a type that isn’t tied to a desk or in meetings all day, or maintenance on a tight schedule, you have absolutely no idea what ‘blue-collar’ is or why blue-collar people might instinctively recognize Trump’s ‘voice’ in these things as borne from actual, bitter experience. They know what’s fair, they know what’s unfair, and they know what they themselves would try to get away with if they could when tired or angry.

    “Did they all move out of the south to San Francisco? Or are you saying that Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia are hotbeds of “hippies, abortion, and sexual perversion.””

    The Democrats are a coalition that makes more sense when you isolate (‘segregate’ may be a better term) the individual bloc members and never ever ask them exactly what they have in common with eath other, who they’re all united in fighting against, or how they’re going to work together with each other once they gain power. You don’t add your heart and soul to Legion’s hivemind and get to question these things.

    Ajami (b138f1)

  225. even if bobby rape-rape did a subpoena on President Trump who cares

    you can just ignore those things

    happyfeet, you’re entertaining which is the main reason I keep you around. However, if you keep alluding to Jacob Wohl’s trumped-up smear as if it were true, I’m going to moderate you until you stop.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  226. ok i just thought it was a good metaphor for how he treats people is all

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  227. You are fun, hf, and you are also lucky I am not still moderating you. I think your comments improved on my watch. You had to work harder to find creative, acceptable words and people were more likely to read and enjoy your comments. But, oddly enough, Beldar doesn’t like the filter when your words are there, so you have a new opportunity for snark and spam. I hope you will not abuse it.

    DRJ (15874d)

  228. i don’t even know what to say i had no idea i was under somebody’s watch

    is this how anne frank felt

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  229. #238

    Probably more how Whitey Bulger felt.

    Appalled (c9622b)

  230. George Burns had a way with w

    mg (9e54f8)

  231. George Burns had a way with words that would make women get up and leave his show. No swear words just image

    mg (9e54f8)

  232. Sorry that my fingers hit the wrong button.

    mg (9e54f8)

  233. Oh and his shows were very funny

    mg (9e54f8)

  234. I was moderating every comment, hf. You were the commenter who needed the most attention.

    DRJ (d18ca6)

  235. And for those who may not know how moderation works here, I was reading every comment. Comments are never changed but sometimes I would add offensive words to the filter.

    DRJ (d18ca6)

  236. Mueller suckles at the teats of teh Rabid She-Wolf of teh Deep State

    Colonel Haiku (d6d143)

  237. you may moderate happyfeet’s words, ms. drj, but you will never moderate his love for mr. trump, the president

    a fervent love that burns deep

    in happyfeet’s heart

    nk (dbc370)

  238. let’s try it where i fly under the radar and just comment my truth

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  239. Unless you’ve done general contracting, a job involving lifting and carrying constantly, anything involving powered equipment or a class on forklift safety, military of a type that isn’t tied to a desk or in meetings all day, or maintenance on a tight schedule, you have absolutely no idea what ‘blue-collar’ is or why blue-collar people might instinctively recognize Trump’s ‘voice’ in these things as borne from actual, bitter experience. They know what’s fair, they know what’s unfair, and they know what they themselves would try to get away with if they could when tired or angry.

    But Trump’s never actually done any of that sort of work. He’s always paid people to do that work for him. And more than once tried to get out of paying them once the work is done. That he can imitate that talk merely successfully merely accentuates the fact that he’s a successful fraud.

    kishnevi (bb03e6)

  240. chinese fish farms are nasty with gross diseased fishes all up in it so i never buy frozen seafood from china or “PRC”

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  241. hey cnn poofterboy don lemon i finded you another terrorist go get em tiger

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  242. No tienen vergüenza, ¿eh, señor Patterico?

    https://nalert.blogspot.com/2018/11/photo-la-times-has-different-spanish.html

    Colonel Haiku (d6d143)

  243. 252
    Presumably the LA Times En Espanol has a different editorial board, or at least not all the same members as that of the main paper.

    kishnevi (bb03e6)

  244. entonces…

    Colonel Haiku (d6d143)

  245. no son aptos para alinear la jaula de las aves más inmundas

    Colonel Haiku (d6d143)

  246. Careful there, Colonel. A true Trumpnik might think you need deporting.

    (I don’t quite agree with the sentiment you express, but I don’t quite disagree with it either.)

    kishnevi (bb03e6)

  247. Por su puesto…

    Colonel Haiku (d6d143)

  248. Por favor… señalarme a las mujeres bonitas

    Colonel Haiku (d6d143)

  249. In news that should surprise no-one, the video in O’Keefe’s latest hit piece against Beto O’Rourke was deceptively edited:

    https://twitter.com/fawfulfan/status/1058417640903979008

    “O’Keefe spliced footage of Beto staffers discussing a (legal) $300 gift to an El Paso charity, with them discussing migrants transported by fed agents, and edited it to make it look like they said the campaign *paid the migrants*.”

    Does this count as “smothering it with a pillow”, as a certain commenter here is fond of saying.

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  250. Eso tipo de periodico que son gratis de la supermercado es no mas para poner en el piso o su muebles cuando esta pintando en su casa.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  251. Charles Payne should do that shoe-polish treatment that Carlos Boozer and Drake have done to their scalp.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  252. Feinstein down to a single digit lead in latest polling (RCP) – it would be an awkward as hell victory speech for DeLeon if he had an inkling of the reality behind his upset victory, but let it be the “mainstream” Dems to burst his bubble not the anti-Feinstein revenge for Kavanaugh conservatives.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  253. I remember the sun insensible had a Spanish weekly edution, maybe they still do.

    narciso (d1f714)

  254. If I was in California, I would vote against Feinstein on general principles. If you are left, or if you are right, it is clear she made the worst possible mess out of the Kavanaugh situation, and that is why the Dems are unlikely to get the Senate back.

    Appalled (c9622b)

  255. Davethulhu (fab944) — 11/2/2018 @ 12:46 pm

    and edited it to make it look like they said the campaign *paid the migrants*.”

    What is this idea that american policticians are oaying the migrants, or sending money to them?

    The first problem with this idea is that people need to be paid to come to the United States. If they did need to be paid, it can’t get any bigger – I mean this propaganda seems to contradict other propaganda.

    And furthermore, do any Demorats seem to be talking about this?

    Now some of the people in it are getting money from the United States. They need to find someone with aMExican ID to get the money. This is most likely family.

    The oldest migrant reporters found was a 72-year old woman talking withh her a 4-year old granbdson in hjopes of getting cleft palate surgery for him. She’s probably right about that. This is the best way. Once she gets here someone will pay for it or do it for free. Applying for a medical visa probably didn’t work. Waiting for some charity to come there was probably also a very great longshot. Trump, or rather ICE, may, out of spite, try to prevent her from getting surgery for her grandchild, but lawyers will be in court to fight that and probably win.

    A surprising number of the people in the caravan speak very good English. They are people who have been deported from the United States and have family here. Their legal situation is probably the worst, but they probably don’t understand it. The families can also apply for hardship exemption with them there too.

    Lots of people along the way are bringing food etc to the caravan. There’s probably a lot of sympathy for them.

    https://twitter.com/anniecorreal/status/1056981424018907136

    Our colleague @mayaaverbuch learned that in one town, medical teams treated ~4,500 people for issues including blisters and skin abrasions, acute respiratory illness, acute diarrhea, conjunctivitis, dehydration, and salmonella.

    Annie Correal‏ @anniecorreal · Oct 29

    Along with doctors and nurses, we have seen dentists and nuns helping people as the caravan has traveled through southern Mexico.

    Where does the caravan sleep? In central plazas, on ball courts and in bandshells, beneath tents made of tarp and rope, in churches and shelters, and very often, out in the open. Photo by @heislerphoto.

    Leadership is organic, @LiptonMark. It includes members of a Mexican collective, Pueblo Sin Fronteras and organizers of the caravan from Honduras. The group assembles nightly to vote on routes, rest days, who rides donated buses.

    I wouldn’t exactly believe organic. These votes probably are between two or three similar choices satisfactory to the organizers.

    It was organized on Facebook, and increaed with media coverage.

    https://twitter.com/anniecorreal/status/1057028967532847104

    Annie Correal‏ @anniecorreal Getting back to practical stuff, food has been donated by church and civic groups and municipal governments. @mayaaverbuch reports the town of Pijijiapan gave the caravan 14 tubs mayonnaise, 28 liters cream, 170 kilos ham, 10 kilos salt, 28 packages napkins and 7,000 eggs.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  256. More

    https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/1058212912597221376

    Maggie Haberman‏Verified account @maggieNYT

    Pence tonight on the caravan to Fox: “this caravan was organized by leftist groups in Honduras. Financed in part by Venezuela, that all according to the president of Honduras who told me those things personally.”

    9:23 PM – 1 Nov 2018

    That it was organzied by leftist groups in Honduras has been reporteed by the New York Times, along with the claim that commercials against the caravan paid for by the Honduran government only got more to join. Now maybe some money from some foreign governments – like Cuba – is getting in, but I don’t think the Cubana or Venezuealean government will sopend nay more money than it needs to. The purpose would be to promote anti-americanism in Hinduras, possibly to replace the government, and maybe to get the U.S. to toughen immigraiton enforcement.

    More..

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/24/world/americas/migrant-caravan-trump.html

    Initially planned as a modest caravan of a few hundred people, it grew quickly to about 7,000 as desperation, local media coverage and a swirl of domestic and American politics combined to transform it into the largest movement of migrants north through Mexico in recent history. Even those who helped spur the mass movement never imagined it would expand so much, so fast.

    I never expected this to get so big,” said Bartolo Fuentes, a migrant advocate and former lawmaker who helped promote the caravan, which started on Oct. 13. “Maybe it would come to a thousand people. But this big? No way.”

    For leftist politicians like Mr. Fuentes and Luis Redondo, a congressman, the caravan offered a perfect way to encourage migrants to travel safely in a large group — and attack the government at the same time.

    …Determined to denounce Mr. Hernández’s administration and support the migrants, members of the opposition started promoting the caravan as an example of what happens when a government fails its people.

    …In what appeared to be an attempt to deflect responsibility, the Honduran ambassador to the United States, Marlon Tábora Muñoz, sent Representative Matt Gaetz, Republican of Florida, a video in which young men handed out single bills of currency to migrants standing in line….

    …The claims were later debunked, and the video wasn’t even shot in Honduras. It happened in Guatemala. Migrants in the caravan told The New York Times that people who wanted to help them handed out the equivalent of about 13 to 26 cents. The migrants, who have been surviving on handouts from strangers, said they were not paid to join the caravan.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  257. Sammy, I appreciate your well researched posts.

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  258. ‘Does this count as “smothering it with a pillow”, as a certain commenter here is fond of saying.’
    Davethulhu (fab944) — 11/2/2018 @ 12:46 pm

    Because honest reporting needs to start with Project Veritas.

    From there, we move on to CNN, NYT, NBC, WaPo, ABC, MSNBC, CBS….

    But, Project Veritas first.

    Munroe (e041c4)

  259. Who Mueller actually subpoenaded:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/05/us/politics/jerome-corsi-subpoena-mueller-investigation.html

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/01/us/politics/roger-stone-trump-campaign-mueller-wikileaks.html

    At various points, Mr. Stone has also suggested that he gleaned information about WikiLeaks from Jerome Corsi, a conservative journalist who trades in conspiracy theories. A lawyer for Mr. Corsi, who was also subpoenaed to testify before the grand jury, did not respond to a message seeking comment. Andrew Miller, another former aide to Mr. Stone, was also ordered to testify and is fighting the subpoena.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  260. These clowns and their vanity is what O’Keefe and CO. have come to depend on…

    Colonel Haiku (d6d143)

  261. Sammy:

    For another view of the caravan from a Mexican citizen recovering from the ravages of Hurricane Willa, go to the 00:35 to 00:50 point of this video.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  262. If O’Keefe was not so adept at mining this rich vein of leftwing suckitude the Left would not be so perpetually up in arms about him.

    Colonel Haiku (d6d143)

  263. The video won’t play – and isn’t it in Spanish?

    There was a story that some people thought (or hoped?) that Hurricane Willa was going to head for the caravan.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  264. No sammeh , the fellow in nayarit rightly asks why Los pinos doesnt give a farthing about his life.

    narciso (d1f714)

  265. Money from the left is probably only going for lawyers, and they are not waiting for the caravan.

    https://www.nj.com/camden/index.ssf/2018/10/george_soros_caravan_conspiracy_tweet_lands_campbell_soup_exec_in_hot_water.html

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/29/business/kelly-johnston-soros-conspiracy-theories.html

    The Open Society Foundation denied that planning & executing the caravan but noticeably did not deny lawyers.

    The Open Society said in a Twitter message last week: “Mr. Johnston, neither Mr. Soros nor Open Society is funding this effort. We are surprised to see a @CampbellSoupCo executive spreading false stories. We do support the historic U.S. commitment to welcoming people fleeing oppression and violence in their homelands.”

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  266. @271

    Yes, good job. That’s the deceptively edited video in question.

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  267. That’s what the Dems – even ACORN – always claim. Now they’ll rush to cover their tracks.

    Colonel Haiku (d6d143)

  268. They were leery of the $50K fine they’d have to pay if unable to make good on their deceptive strategy.

    Colonel Haiku (d6d143)

  269. You know you can type more than one sentence per post, right Haiku?

    They “always claim” it because it’s always true.

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  270. Yep… you believe what you must. The reality-based community knows better.

    Colonel Haiku (d6d143)

  271. These leftwing effwads can’t keep their mouths shut long enough to stop spilling teh beans. Witness Gillum’s Rastadoofarian

    Colonel Haiku (d6d143)

  272. The lefty guys can’t get enough of this… here’s your womyn, lads >>>>> https://www.sevendaysvt.com/OffMessage/archives/2018/10/31/naked-and-unafraid-vermont-women-strip-down-to-grab-them-by-the-ballot

    Colonel Haiku (d6d143)

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