Patterico's Pontifications

10/26/2018

Suspect Identified And Arrested In Package Bomb Scare

Filed under: General — Dana @ 10:18 am

[guest post by Dana]

Good news:

An arrest has been made in the investigation of bombs sent to prominent Democrats and critics of President Trump. The Department of Justice confirmed that one person was in custody.

Several law enforcement sources told CBS News the suspect’s name is Cesar Sayoc, who was born in 1962. He appears to have a criminal history in Broward County, Florida.

A law enforcement source said that DNA evidence on one of the devices played a part in leading investigators to the suspect, CBS News senior investigative producer Pat Milton reports.

Earlier today, authorities intercepted similar packages addressed to Sen. Cory Booker and former director of Intelligence James Clapper:

The package sent to Booker was found in Florida, the FBI said on Twitter on Friday morning. Sources told CBS News that the package sent to Clapper was found at a postal facility in New York City.

The New York package was addressed to “James Robert Clapper Time Warner (CNN),” according to a photo of the package obtained by CBS New York station WCBS-TV. On Wednesday, a bomb sent to CNN’s offices in New York’s Time Warner Center prompted an evacuation of the building.

Further, law enforcement secured a white van covered in stickers as evidence:

Law enforcement officials towed away a van found in Plantation, Florida, where a suspect was arrested in connection to the explosive devices.

The van is heading to Miramar, Florida, where a FBI field office is located, a law enforcement official told CNN.

Untitled

Here are some details rearding Sayoc:

*According to online records, Sayoc is a registered Republican, registering with the GOP in Florida in March 2016.

*Sayoc calls himself a promoter, booking agent and choreographer of a male stripping show as well as burlesque shows in the Miami-area. Sayoc says that he graduated from Brevard College, N.C./Univ of N.C. at Charlotte.” Sayoc says he attained a Bachelor of Arts in numerous subjects as well as studying veterinary medicine. Sayoc writes on that profile that it was his dream to become a “horse doctor.”

*Sayoc was arrested on drug charges in 2004. He was accused of possession and sale of steroids, along with possession of a controlled substance without a prescription, tampering with evidence, filing fraudulent tax returns, criminal use of personal ID info and possession or unlawful issue of a driver’s license. He pleaded guilty that same year and was sentenced to 18 months of probation.

*In 2013, Sayoc was charged with battery and third-degree grand theft, a felony. He pleaded guilty in 2014 and was sentenced to probation. In 2009, Sayoc was charged with operating without a valid license, not having insurance and not having a tag light and was fined after pleading guilty to the misdemeanor charges. In 2014, Sayoc was arrested on a petit theft charge and violation of probation. He was sentenced to 30 days in jail.

Hm. Was Sayoc working alone? Did he have an accomplice in New York, or were the events not related?:

The arrest took place in Florida and at least some of the action took place there too. Four of the bombs were delivered in New York, at least, so it makes sense that the SDNY would be involved. It could also mean that they’re checking to see if Sayoc had an accomplice for the hand deliveries in the state, or maybe just tracking his cell-phone location data to tie him to the specific deliveries.

Here is President Trump discussing the arrest of Sayoc at the Young Black Leadership Summit minutes ago:

(Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.)

–Dana

UPDATE BY PATTERICO: Washington Examiner:

The individual arrested on Friday by the FBI has been named as Cesar Altieri Sayoc. After some digging I managed to find his Twitter page, “Hardrock2016″ and – thanks to Washington Examiner’s Phil Klein – another Twitter page listed as “HardrockIntlent.”

I’ve retweeted a few of the tweets this lunatic tweeted out against some of the people sent devices. Here you go:

UPDATE x2 BY PATTERICO: There is simply too much of the crazy to reproduce it all here. Go to my Twitter timeline and scroll. I have retweeted videos of him at the inauguration wearing a MAGA hat, driving his van wearing the same hat, taking video at a Florida Trump rally, and threatening countless political and media figures.

I figure Twitter will delete it all, so I saved his Twitter feed going back to January 10, 2017. 1145 pages of obsessive Trumperism. It’s too big a file to upload, though.

UPDATE BY PATTERICO x3: Look at his crazy tweets yourself, here.

307 Responses to “Suspect Identified And Arrested In Package Bomb Scare”

  1. There is a new report out stating that law enforcement in Sacramento are investigating a suspicious package that may have been meant for Kamala Harris. The FBI says they are unable to confirm any details.

    Dana (023079)

  2. Probably a package from Victoria’s Secret…

    Colonel Haiku (f2bc98)

  3. She’s teh “It Girl”.

    She’s got “it”… and she can keep “it”.

    Colonel Haiku (f2bc98)

  4. UPDATE BY PATTERICO: Washington Examiner:

    The individual arrested on Friday by the FBI has been named as Cesar Altieri Sayoc. After some digging I managed to find his Twitter page, “Hardrock2016″ and – thanks to Washington Examiner’s Phil Klein – another Twitter page listed as “HardrockIntlent.”

    I’ve retweeted a few of the tweets this lunatic tweeted out against some of the people sent devices. Here you go:

    Patterico (115b1f)

  5. More:

    Patterico (115b1f)

  6. Sayoc calls himself a promoter, booking agent and choreographer of a male stripping show as well as burlesque shows in the Miami-area.

    Creepy P*rn Bomber loves him some Creepy P*rn President, apparently.

    Dave (9664fc)

  7. We already had a false alarm for Kamala Harris. They are maybe judt looking more closely at anything that might be delivered to cewrtain people or places. There was a false alarm yesterday at CNN. On Wednesday the New York Police Department was expecting things maybe to come to media locations and politicians – instead they got notified of a similar package sent to Robert Di Nero.

    So far we have (more or less in order of discovery, not insertion into the postal system)

    1. George Soros (thought at first not to have come via the postal system)

    2. Bill & Hillary

    3. Obama

    4. John Brennan, wrongly addressed to CNN – he is a regular contributor to MSNBC, not CNN. His name was also spelled wrong, as BRENAN. None of the 6 American flag “Forever” stamps cancelled. Picked up by courier from CNN from the Post Office.

    5. Eric Holder returned to supposed sender Debbie Wassserman Schultz, with her name misspelled as SHULTZ (no “c”) and the address of her office was misspelled with “Saw Grass” as two words and not one, and Florida also typed wrong as FLORIDS. (That’s 3 mistakes on the return address)

    6 & 7. Maxine Waters. Two (2) packages – one to her office in Washington D.C. and one in California. The Californis was discovered maybe two days later.

    8 & 9 Joe Biden – two (2) packages, at least one, maybe both, with the, or a, wrong address that was intercepted when it was in the process of being returned to sender (DWS?)

    10. Robert DeNiro. (delivered Tuesday, identified as suspicious when a security person for Robert De Niro saw a picture of the CNN bomb on TV in the wee hours of the morning, before 5 am)

    11. Parcel intercepted at a Post office facility at 52nd St in Manhattan – New York, New York intended for James Clapper.

    12. Parcel intended for Senator Cory Booker (Spartacus – that was not a claim by him to be Spartacus or be like him, but a reference to scene from a movie where everybody shoulders the blame for being Sparacus) Apparently also on its way “back” to Debbie Wasserman Schultz.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  8. Booker has been named by a gay fella as someone who’d made unwanted advances. Hence new nickname “Touchacuss”

    Colonel Haiku (f2bc98)

  9. So he’s a felon, who shouldn’t have been out on the street, a stupid one but nonetheless.

    Narciso (a28161)

  10. NBC News withheld info re: Swetnick garbage… and they wonder why they aren’t trusted.

    https://www.breitbart.com/the-media/2018/10/26/nolte-nbc-news-hid-info-wouldve-cleared-kavanaugh-avenatti-rape-allegations/?dg

    Colonel Haiku (f2bc98)

  11. was Julus Cesar Milan anoher one of his aliases?

    Cesar Sayoc Jr. was aka as Cesar Altieri or Cesar Altieri Sayoc, Cesar A. Sayoc, and Cesar A. Sayol.

    (Twitter handle: hardrock2016)

    https://twitter.com/hardrock2016

    On Oct 19 he threatened TMZ saying they might end like “media slime Saudi Arabia.” (evidently he couldn’t remember Jamal Khashoggi’s name)

    He was aged 56 (born March 17, 1962) and lived in Aventura, Florida. In 2012 he said in a bankruptcy petition he was living with his mother.

    I heard him described on the radio as a former New Yorker, but that may be only because he was born in New York. A pre-Florida location he lived in was Edison, New Jersey.

    He has a criminal history in Florida dating back to 1991, apparently mostly drug, theft and fraud charges, but it includes one arrest on charges of threatening to use a bomb.

    He was a registered Republican accrdoing to the New York Times. Felons cannot vote in Florida, although there’s a ballot amendment in the November election to restore voting rights to what coud be 1.5 million felons in Florida, (Sopme from otgehr states that Florida would not know about) so I don’t know what it says about whether or not he was convicted of a felony. In Floridsa theer is now a lifetime ban.

    A big press conference is (or was at least initially) scheduled for 2:30 pm Eastern Daylight Time. I

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  12. Ick. This is what you get with a group of folks, left too, who dig deeper into a corner of the fever swamp, with no oxygen getting to their brain, common sense is the first thing to stop working, and you get this guy. It’s purely irrational, and I actually don’t understand what most of them are saying. My brief 3-minute sojourn onto 4chan today had me looking up the shorthand. Lot’s of words that I thought I knew the meaning of, but don’t mean what I thought they meant.

    I’m actually somewhat surprised we don’t get more of this, maybe crazy Americans are lazier, I hope that we just have fewer that are this crazy, maybe most of the internet crazies are actually just trolls out for the lolz.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (53dc67)

  13. Yesterday’s narrative: none of the bombs exploded, so this is obviously a “false flag” frame-up by desperate Democrats – you #nevertrumpers will fall for anything!

    Tomorrow’s narrative (or maybe today’s, we’ll see): none of the bombs exploded, so this is no big deal and the fakenews media have blown it out of proportion – you #nevertrumpers will fall for anything!

    Dave (9664fc)

  14. 9. Narciso (a28161) — 10/26/2018 @ 10:52 am

    So he’s a felon, who shouldn’t have been out on the street, a stupid one but nonetheless.

    If he’s a felon, it wasn’t legal for him to vote in Florida.

    It’s been Democrats who are in favor of felons voting and Republicans who are all for purging the voting rolls.

    Recent story:

    https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article220614240.html

    Emblazoned with the words “Let my people VOTE,” it’s a big, rolling symbol of the campaign to pass Amendment 4 that would restore the right to vote to an estimated 1.5 million convicted felons in Florida.

    Years of grass-roots organizing by supporters will soon reach the finish line as millions of Florida voters decide the fate of the amendment. It requires a supermajority of 60 percent approval to become law in a midterm election dominated by hard-fought contests for governor and U.S. senator.

    Approval would end Florida’s long-standing outlier status as the state with the most people permanently barred from voting because of a felony conviction. Florida is one of four states that permanently disenfranchise felons from voting…

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  15. I say we all chip in and buy the guy’s van for happyfeet when it goes up for auction!

    :)

    Dave (9664fc)

  16. He had five pen registers out of New York stare,

    Narciso (a28161)

  17. I want to listen and study thsi carefully. I don’t want this to be another Richard Jewell or Steven Hatfill. We still don’t know how Sayoc was connected to this.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  18. yet another terrorism incited by sleazebag jack dorsey’s dirty twitter

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  19. he seems very spirited Mr. Dave

    and honestly it’s not like he’ll be needing the van

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  20. Sayoc uses the name Cesar Altieri Randazzo on Facebook.

    He’s been involved with the law many times but maybe always escaped being labeled a felon. After he made a bomb threat in 2002 in Dade County he was sentenced to one year of probation. The felony charge was dismissed after he competed probation.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  21. Classic. A Trumpalista and a felon. What a pathetic smurf.

    Paul Montagu (e7d63b)

  22. I don’t want this to be another Richard Jewell or Steven Hatfill.

    he’s absolutely correct about CNN that’s for sure (they suck)

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  23. Folks are calling him the MAGAbomber.

    Paul Montagu (e7d63b)

  24. Sayoc last registered to vote in March, 2016 as a Republican. Why did he register in March, 2016?Probably to vote in the (closed) Presidential primary, held on March 15. Or did he miss the deadline?

    Whatever, he attended a Trump rally in October, 2016.

    His family is from the Phillipines but on Oct 19 he may have pretended on Twitter to be a Seminole Indian, and says on his Twitter page that he is a former professional soccer player and cage fighter.

    He claimed on LinkedIn that his grandfather, Col. Baltazar Zook Sayoc, was a martial arts practitioner who developed his own style of fighting, called Sayoc Kali. Sayoc sais that style was used to fight the Communist Party of the Philippines.

    He also said that he graduated from Brevard College, N.C./Univ of N.C. at Charlotte” and had attained a Bachelor of Arts in numerous subjects as well as studying veterinary medicine and said . on that profile that it was his dream to become a “horse doctor.”

    The Sun Sentinel reports that Sayoc is the owner of two businesses, Native American Catering and Ver Tech AG. When he filed for bankrutcy in 212 he said he was a store manager at a supermarket in Hollywood, Florida.

    https://heavy.com/news/2018/10/cesar-sayoc/

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  25. Just keep looking at my timeline. There are too many to reproduce here.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  26. Sayoc’s arrest took place outside of an auto parts store near State Road 7 and Southwest 6th Street in Plantation, Florida, near Ft. Lauderdale.

    The argument for this being a hoax was that the “bomb” were stupidlly or incompletely constructed, and not even bombs maybe: A clock connected to nothing? And what would you want with a timing device in something delivered at an unpredictable time.

    And that a real bomber would mail the bombs one at a time.

    I think all objections have answers.

    I would say bombers in the past did inded send bobs out one or two at a time because they constructed them slowly and were not afraid of getting caught. Now they have the meme from al Qaeda (already used by the anthrax killer) to do them simultaneously.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  27. Magabomber was before a suspect was identified.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  28. This guy is almost as big a Trump fan as happyfeet.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  29. Magabomber was before a suspect was identified.

    Perhaps, but his van confirmed it.

    Paul Montagu (e7d63b)

  30. I look forward to the retractions from the people who spent yesterday alleging a false flag operation.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  31. he’s the most sensational inspirational celebrational muppetational president ever Mr. P in our whole America

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  32. Spanky started to lay the foundation for another Big Lie this morning on Twitter:

    Republicans are doing so well in early voting, and at the polls, and now this “Bomb” stuff happens and the momentum greatly slows – news not talking politics. Very unfortunate, what is going on. Republicans, go out and vote!

    Got that? After the attempted assassination of two ex-presidents, former cabinet members and multiple sitting members of Congress, his concern was how it might crimp his own political fortunes.

    It was reported that as of last night, he had not personally called or spoken to any of the bomb targets.

    And you can see where he was headed. By tonight, or sometime over the weekend, he would have started explicitly pushing the false-flag conspiracy theory.

    He should be happy now though – the news will be talking about politics again!

    Dave (9664fc)

  33. (Trump’s tweet was before the arrest, ofc)

    Dave (9664fc)

  34. Fool, if it turns out it he did if. Needs to be gator xhow, it’s like a tim Dorsey tale, hiassens gone stale.

    Narciso (a28161)

  35. That’s a lot of “why did we bother” territory, Narciso – from Seminole territory to the Phillipines.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  36. Autozone ftw…

    Colonel Haiku (f2bc98)

  37. Folks were calling him the magabomber, and i spent some time yesterday pushing back on that (we didn’t know anything about the bomber, so it was totally premature), but today, pushing back on it is kinda a lost cause.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  38. They have DNA.

    Patterico (09b1a9)

  39. what happens to the stuff in your fridge when you get arrested

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  40. I look forward to the retractions from the people who spent yesterday alleging a false flag operation.

    Droll!

    Patterico (09b1a9)

  41. That said, the dude’s van reminds me of http://q1065.fm/files/2018/08/king-van-side.jpg?w=630&h=418&q=75, which used to show up in santa cruz from time to time.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  42. He’s an analog to a Springfield (IL) Republican – f&*^ Chicago, but dont dare cut my state capital job. This guy probably has DBE status through his tribal membership (and in some industries, perhaps – some locals grant Asians DBE for construction, due to Filipino status).

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  43. @17.’Presumption of innocence’ eh, Sammy.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  44. He had flags six ways from Sunday, and consider bondi and co, through Zimmerman under the bus, well wrong lizard and all.

    Narciso (a28161)

  45. the important thing is how even with all the political violence and the pipe bombs and the democrat restaurant mobs ALL Americans are united with President Trump in celebration of our freedoms and our shared prosperity

    America’s more unified than ever!

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  46. Sheesh, at least Im classy enough to go to O’Reilly or PepBoys.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  47. Am happy they went to the video tape.

    mg (a05430)

  48. UPDATE x2 BY PATTERICO: There is simply too much of the crazy to reproduce it all here. Go to my Twitter timeline and scroll. I have retweeted videos of him at the inauguration wearing a MAGA hat, driving his van wearing the same hat, taking video at a Florida Trump rally, and threatening countless political and media figures.

    I figure Twitter will delete it all, so I saved his Twitter feed going back to January 10, 2017. 1045 pages of obsessive Trumperism. It’s too big a file to upload, t

    Patterico (115b1f)

  49. There is no cause so good you will not find bad men in its service, nor any cause so evil no just man could ever feel his conscience binds him to support it.

    Stephen J. (308ea7)

  50. Fingerprint evidence and he has reportedly admitted he did it. I think you can stop worry about his being innocent, Sammy.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  51. “I look forward to the retractions from the people who spent yesterday alleging a false flag operation.”

    The flags on the bombs were, in fact, false, not real ISIS flags.

    And this would hardly be the last case of a kooky ethnic in Broward County in Sheriff Scott Israel’s jurisdiction with a suspicious lack of prior arrests despite deranged behavior, suspicious adjacency to government agents, and suspiciously effective operation for all the drugs he was taking.

    But truly, This Man Was All of Us: Registered Republican, Registered Democrat, Registered white nationalist, ‘100% Seminole’ (Andrew Jackson obviously missed a few,) more Indian than Elizabeth Warren, taller and more ripped than Michael Avenatti, a less embarrassing stripping career than Marco Rubio, slightly less coherent online than Cher. When you hear ‘This is America’, this is who you should picture.

    Truly the Age of Cesarism is upon us!

    Julius Cesar (5d32e7)

  52. Oh, come on! DNA and fingerprints can be planted and the FBI obviously beat a confession out of him!

    nk (dbc370)

  53. > > “I look forward to the retractions from the people who spent yesterday alleging a false flag operation.”

    > The flags on the bombs were, in fact, false, not real ISIS flags.

    That’s not what I was talking about; I was using a commonly used colloquialism. and I can’t tell if you are earnest or trolling, so i’ll restate:

    I look forward to the retractions from the people who spent yesterday alleging that this set of attacks came from Democrats trying to make Republicans look bad.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  54. “Folks were calling him the magabomber”

    Probably about as fair as calling the Democrat who shot Republican members of Congress in a 2017 attempted murder spree the Bernie Sanders & Wesson Shooter

    Colonel Haiku (f2bc98)

  55. what a super-fun day for them fbi monkeys though

    they caught a for reals criminal!

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  56. < / = .01 Seminole

    Colonel Haiku (f2bc98)

  57. “attempted assassination” LOL!

    Colonel Haiku (f2bc98)

  58. why doesn’t “attempted assassination” qualify? someone sent a bomb to the office of a political figure. how is that *not* attempted assassination?

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  59. it’s the best magaween ever!

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  60. Without a fuse? Maybe if someone used them as clubs, yes…

    Colonel Haiku (f2bc98)

  61. @54 Not speaking for anyone claiming ff yesterday since I was in the ‘let’s see how this plays out’ group; but if this is a false flag would it look any different? If you’re going to pull an ff like this you might as well go all the way. The whole ff falls apart if the FBI shows up to find bob’s commune and coffee shop full of bernie bros. And if you’re going to play the ff card why back down now? The beauty to a good conspiracy theory is that any new information is just incorporated.

    frosty48 (6226c1)

  62. Mr. 48 the important thing’s that now the bomber’s behind bars everybody can ratchet their rhetoric back up to super-incendiary levels

    people say whatever they want in whatever way they wanna say it, plus they can be super harsh towards CNN and the other trashy fake noozles

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  63. oops people *can* say whatever they want in…

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  64. This guy is almost as big a Trump fan as happyfeet.

    Isn’t it a personal insult to suggest that anyone could love Donald Trump more than happyfeet?

    We may need to get a ruling on this.

    Dave (9664fc)

  65. “attempted assassination” LOL!

    They’ve charged him with the intent to use the bombs to kill, injure, and destroy property. Maybe you know more about the bombs than the people who filed the charges do, but I doubt it.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  66. i don’t feel slighted at all it’s not a contest it’s all about loving President Trump with your whole heart

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  67. what happens to the stuff in your fridge when you get arrested

    He was reportedly living in his van after his parents kicked him out, which is sadly all-too-common for 56-year olds in these hard economic times.

    Anyway, he’s probably grateful to have one less thing to worry about.

    Dave (9664fc)

  68. oh that’s terrible

    i wonder if they let him at least take the blender

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  69. trump supporter set up. just like oswald. another reichstag fire!

    lany (6abe84)

  70. If there are no fuses, maybe I do. Are there fuses? I thought I’d read there weren’t, but could’ve missed some more definitive info.

    I have no doubt they would charge the guy 50 ways from Sunday, but were these competent attempts… all I’m saying.

    Colonel Haiku (f2bc98)

  71. This is the excuse the democrats are looking for.

    lany (6abe84)

  72. when someone who isn’t competent to assassinate a public figure nevertheless tries to do so, does the lack of competence mean it *wasn’t* an attempted assassination?

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  73. maybe the goal wasn’t to do assassinate all up in it but to have a chilling effect on all the vicious anti-trump rhetoric that’s gotten so out of hand

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  74. Director Wray: “We’re still trying to determine if the devices were functional… They did contain energetic material, which, if subjected to the right combination of heat or shock or friction could be dangerous to the public.”

    Colonel Haiku (f2bc98)

  75. trump supporter set up. just like oswald. another reichstag fire!
    This is the excuse the democrats are looking for.

    Could you use Google Translate to convert this in English? Looking for what? I think you’re missing some…words.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (78a996)

  76. Look, even if this nutjob specifically stated that his intent was not to blow anyone up, his intent could reasonably be gleaned to have been to scare people. Such fear constitutes assault whether or not the “bombs” were functional. I say lock him up, but not before you check this guy’s faculties. Whether in a prison or a mental hospital, it should be a long time before he ever sees the light of day as a free man, if ever.

    Gryph (08c844)

  77. @73 as far as I know stupidity is not an affirmative defense

    frosty48 (6226c1)


  78. I look forward to the retractions from the people who spent yesterday alleging that this set of attacks came from Democrats trying to make Republicans look bad.

    Who alleged that the only explanation was a false flag attack? Some wrote that a false flag attack couldn’t be dismissed, which was a possibility that does not require a retraction, IMO.

    rpg (d9198f)

  79. Mr. Soyac’s bombs were “rudimentary but functional“, probably some of his more functional than others. I take “functional” to mean that, if one goes off and the Democrat target is close enough, he/she would be murdered. That makes him a terrorist, attempted murderer, and hyperpartisan twat.

    Paul Montagu (7b9e3b)

  80. It was a rather low tech means of detection (no cell phone trace of the same person near two post offices or mail boxes; no past Google searches)

    He was identified through a latent fingerprint found on one of the envelopes addressed to Maxine Waters. (That’s probably a pretty good indication, unless he was just one of number of accomplices.)

    They then probably linked him to his van or cellphone and tracked him down.

    But this was sort of like getting the answer at the back of the book without working your way throughh the problem. A lot of this is still a mystery, especially to the public.

    We have a WHO, but not much of a HOW yet, or WHERE and WHEN. When we have a lot of that we’ll get a WHY as to much of what he did, but it shouldn’t be expected to make too much sense, and in a sense, doesn’t matter..

    WHAT we knew first, but only in part. We don’t fully know the WHAT. For instance, we don’t know yet what were the prospects of these bombs ever exploding. What it was, and what maybe he thought it was. The biggest mystery is how and when and where these things got into postal system.

    I didn’t hear that he’s not denying it, only that he seemed to expect an arrest, but that’s probably correct too.

    Before the press conference, based almost solely on the FBI having identified someone as the perpetrator, I would have said it is an 80% chance it is him.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  81. Just because you’re too much of a dumbass to read “the anarchist cookbook” and follow the recipe doesn’t get you out of trouble for trying to murder people.

    You don’t have to actually hit the person you’re shooting at to make it a violation.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (78a996)

  82. They found an impotent crazed nut patsy “trump guy”to take the fall . Good job DemocRats . Still voting R across the board

    WompWomp (493b9b)

  83. @77 I think a possible charge for what you are describing would be terroristic threats? Which is a lock him up charge so you get at the same result. Does anyone know if he can be charged with both terroristic threats and attempted murder or is that one of those lessor included sort of things?

    frosty48 (6226c1)

  84. 78. It may get him off of criminal charges on the basis of mental illness, but even in that case he should be confined to a mental hospital.

    Gryph (08c844)

  85. Paul Montagu (7b9e3b) — 10/26/2018 @ 1:19 pm

    I take “functional” to mean that, if one goes off and the Democrat target is close enough, he/she would be murdered.

    No, it’s ennough for it to go off, and maybe slightly wound someone for it to be “functional”

    Still it’s attempted murderer.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  86. Hes been charged with enough crimes to get 58 years in jail.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  87. Oh he was a DJ at a club with the adult entertainment impresario.

    narciso (d1f714)

  88. Would it be full on assassination if these devices “exploded” only to produce silly string, paint or smoke but the opener suffers a heart attack and dies?

    urbanleftbehind (7ca14a)

  89. I look forward to the retractions from the people who spent yesterday alleging that this set of attacks came from Democrats trying to make Republicans look bad.
    aphrael (e0cdc9) — 10/26/2018 @ 12:30 pm

    Yes, I’d like to see that. I’d also like to see the media spend as much time linking Trump and Republicans to this wannabe bomber as they did linking Bernie to the softball shooter. Oooops, that’s already happened, as of like two days ago.

    Meanwhile, Scalise still has health issues. Last I heard, DeNiro is fine.

    Munroe (84e316)

  90. 84. “Terroristic threats” is a federal charge. There’s enough evidence to charge this guy with civil and possibly criminal assault in whatever states he sent those “bombs” to. 58 years doesn’t seem like nearly long enough to me.

    Gryph (08c844)

  91. Yes the communications with Durbin and dyckworth would be worthy of note.

    narciso (d1f714)

  92. “Who alleged that the only explanation was a false flag attack?”

    Fortunately, we have another thread where we can check this question.

    “Now these bombs have moved into the ‘tryhard’ false flag arena.
    Ingot9455 (68bf96) — 10/24/2018 @ 8:32 am”

    “clearly false flag operation by democrats as none of the bombs exploded. return address wasserman-schultz gives it away as most democrats hate her worse then republicans do. this is an excuse to bomb republicans. look at the history of bombs that don’t go off in the political arena they are NOT sent by terrorists but made to look like they are.
    lany (6a9100) — 10/24/2018 @ 1:25 pm”

    “No way a Republican is a bad bomb maker.
    Gotta be a Democrat planting false flags.
    Plus they can’t spell.
    Bob the Builder (9af831) — 10/24/2018 @ 1:33 pm”

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  93. He bragged about a relative who was an abticommunist fighter in the Philippines, does that put him in the Duterte orbit?

    urbanleftbehind (7ca14a)

  94. Outside these forums, notable “false flag” proponents include Rush Limbaugh, Michael Savage, Lou Hobbs, and, of course, our Big Wet President.

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  95. 95. The only thing I said about this situation viz-a-vis “false flag” was that I couldn’t discount it as a possibility. Outside of that, all I could say was that I didn’t know if it was and that it may or may not have been. You happy now?

    Gryph (08c844)

  96. On grounds of competence, has more in the Carl channell Marvin liebman vibe if you get my drift.

    narciso (d1f714)

  97. They have found video of him at a cultist rally, carrying a large, home-made anti-CNN sign.

    Dave (9664fc)

  98. He bragged about a relative who was an abticommunist fighter in the Philippines, does that put him in the Duterte orbit?

    This dude has claimed to be everything but the Pope, and maybe even that. His twitter is just…incomprehensible. He’s a Philipino, Cuban, Seminole Indian, Italian, I guess that’s technically possible, but I’d lay odds on him just being a regular old American mutt with few relatives who were Indian princesses and famous anti-communist martial artists who pioneered surgical practices.

    But he jumped into the Trump world in 2015 with both feet, in the really deep end of the pool. I want to know what was his deal before that when he was just a common criminal.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (78a996)

  99. Now with Durbin, he certainly cares about the preservation of the wooden bat so he might take in interest in pregame prep before a congressional ballgame.

    urbanleftbehind (7ca14a)

  100. “He was reportedly living in his van after his parents kicked him out, which is sadly all-too-common for 56-year olds in these hard economic times.“

    One question: was he living in his van down by the river?

    Colonel Haiku (f2bc98)

  101. They have found video of him at a cultist rally, carrying a large, home-made anti-CNN sign.

    They? I found that earlier. Of course Twitter since suspended the account so all my retweets are gone.

    I saved all his tweets, over a thousand pages. But deleting the account will make it easier for people to pretend he’s not what he was: a huge Trumper.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  102. “They have found video of him at a cultist rally, carrying a large, home-made anti-CNN sign.”

    Oh boy… now we get 45 to 60 days of the CNN crazies losing their schiff…

    Colonel Haiku (f2bc98)

  103. @96

    I didn’t call you out, Gryph, you don’t even have a post in the thread in question.

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  104. rickhirsch
    @rickhirsch
    In 2002, Sayoc was arrested for threatening to bomb FPL over a high electric bill.

    Definitely Trump’s fault.

    harkin (ef2377)

  105. 102. This guy is obviously a wacko, whether he’s a “huge Trumper” or not.

    Colonel Haiku (f2bc98)

  106. Green party, if some accounts can be believed,

    narciso (d1f714)

  107. 104. Oh no. I don’t have a post there, but you bet your sweet glutes I was lurking there.

    Gryph (08c844)

  108. Is this an attempt to extrapolate to all fans of teh Trump? Guilt by association?

    Colonel Haiku (f2bc98)

  109. 109. No. It’s not. But the simple truth of the matter is that the guy who sent these devices, these “bombs” if you will, is a proud Trump humper. Make of that what you will.

    Gryph (08c844)

  110. Not sure why we’re seeing the backpedaling on the false flag thing. Obviously no one actually knew what was up unless they were the bomber. It is very good to realize that yes, some Trump fans are indeed bad guys. Same as noting some Trump fans are great people. The same facts are true of democrats. Some fringe have the mindset to hurt others, but most are good folks, some great folks.

    When we decide what we think happened because of what would be more convenient to us, that’s obviously irrational.

    There’s the thing about the false flag theory: it doesn’t make sense because it does make sense.

    It would be stupid to think you’re helping Trump by making a martyr of a democrat senator. Therefore, a rational person would not do this for the MAGA cause. However, whoever is making bombs and trying to kill people over some lame politician like Donald Trump is not rational, so the false flag argument does fall apart. It’s a good example of a good faith theory that misses the basic nature of a thing: this guy was a stupid crazy evil person, so the rules of normal human psychology don’t apply to him.

    Fortunately, he was stupid in his skills at killing others too. I bet a lot of people who know him are not that surprised, though. People need to do a better job calling out the evil around them.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  111. 111. A very astute analysis.

    Gryph (08c844)

  112. Oh I’m sure the MSM won’t need any help with that.

    I wonder if this story will get buried by the MSM within a day or two like the attempted Republican murderer James Hodgkinson? No, I don’t think so.

    Colonel Haiku (f2bc98)

  113. 113. The MSM will play up whatever angle they need to in order to generalize every Trump supporter as a terrible person.

    Gryph (08c844)

  114. This guy will be given a long stretch to hone his mad Cagefighting skillz.

    For realz…

    Colonel Haiku (f2bc98)

  115. UPDATE BY PATTERICO x3: Look at his crazy tweets yourself, here.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  116. Is this an attempt to extrapolate to all fans of teh Trump? Guilt by association?

    Not remotely. But I see a lot of people on Twitter denying that he’s a Trumper. He was. It’s just a fact.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  117. Mr. Sayoc probably did a lot of good things in his life too

    it’s just he’s more famous for his mail bombs is all

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  118. narciso (d1f714) — 10/26/2018 @ 1:46 pm

    .Green party, if some accounts can be believed,

    I heard something to the effect that he was at one time aDemocrat.

    But he registered as a Republican in March 2016.

    If he was convicted of a felony he was permanently ineligible to vote in Florida, (at least until and unless Amendment 4 to teh Florida constirtion passes 11 days from now, but that requiresd 60% voting yes)

    But all his crimes may have very well been plea bargained down.

    The bomb threat was to a Florida Power and Light employee, saying that they’d take care of his problem if he threw a bomb at him. The drug charges were steroids.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  119. I’m glad they caught this crazy lunatic. My only question is, with all the evidence of hatred on display via the tweets Patrick shared, why hadn’t Twitter shut down his account, or the Secret Service or FBI have eyes locked on him a long time ago? And why was he able to spell Schultz’s name correctly on his tweets, but not on the packages? And every device was real, but not functional? I’m not one of these wacko therorists that believe the so-called “Deep State” are behind this, or everything that doesn’t go a certain way, but a lot of this from day 1 has not passed the sniff test. Starting with the report of the initial receipt of the first device: it was reported they received a suspicious device and opened it (really?), then when they discovered it “may” be a bomb, they carried it out to the woods before calling the authorities (I thought Audie Murphy died in the 70’s?). I’m being facetious, of course, but when you take off the biased spectacles on this a lot just doesn’t add up. I’m hoping it’s because this guy is truly a lunatic.

    Brotherico (dfc953)

  120. 111 112./ We can be thankful that he was as stupid in his MEANS as he was in his ENDS.

    (The ends were evil, but they were also stupid – in choices of target etc.)

    But this goes with the territory. It’s practically a job requirement for a terrroist to be stupid.

    If you pair a stupid person with a non-stupid person or persons, or if all the thinking has been done for him by manufacturers, then you have a problem.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  121. Trump appointee and FBI Director Wray: “These are not hoax devices”

    Paul Montagu (7b9e3b)

  122. In a way, Mr. Sayoc reminds me of the sad and tragic story of Lane Davis, except it was fortunate that the former didn’t actually kill somebody.

    Paul Montagu (7b9e3b)

  123. 122. If these were not hoax devices, I would think that Sayoc’s mental competency can definitely be called into question here.

    Gryph (08c844)

  124. The guy had a bomb threat incident 14 years before Trump came on the scene, so he’s been a wacko for quite some time.

    Colonel Haiku (f2bc98)

  125. The guy had a bomb threat incident 14 years before Trump came on the scene, so he’s been a wacko for quite some time.

    True. But then, the nuttiest Trump supporters I see on Twitter — the ones who issue threats and disgusting insults and love love love Trump for his nastiness — a lot of them have probably been wackos for some time as well.

    It doesn’t make their Trump love irrelevant.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  126. I’m glad they caught this crazy lunatic. My only question is, with all the evidence of hatred on display via the tweets Patrick shared, why hadn’t Twitter shut down his account, or the Secret Service or FBI have eyes locked on him a long time ago?

    One thing I noticed going through his Twitter account is that he had virtually no interaction with anyone. In most cases I was the first Twitter user to retweet any of his tweets.

    And why was he able to spell Schultz’s name correctly on his tweets, but not on the packages? And every device was real, but not functional?

    I don’t know; how many different ways has Trump spelled the word “counsel” in his ravings about Mueller?

    As for the functionality of the devices, I’ll wait for more reporting on that.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  127. @120

    And why was he able to spell Schultz’s name correctly on his tweets, but not on the packages?

    Meth? And let’s not discount the cloud of weird that surrounds florida man.

    but a lot of this from day 1 has not passed the sniff test

    The Vegas shooting also has issues and loose ends. The crazy shooter story there still doesn’t add up.

    frosty48 (6226c1)

  128. who’s more nasty President Trump saying CNN sucks or Obama working with Iran to finish what Hitler started on the jews

    all in all President Trump’s the best one but Obama reeks of genocide and sub-par economic growth

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  129. I’ll cop to being among those who thought a false flag campaign was actually a likelier explanation than a sincere attempt at destructive terrorism, though an inveterate predilection for hedging my bets meant I never committed to it. (I hate being publicly wrong.) Even now, I have to agree with Brotherico (#120 above) that much of this seems weird to a degree worth further inquiry. But then, crazy people don’t have to make sense; that’s what makes them crazy.

    (Stephen King once wrote in his nonfiction book Danse Macabre that paranoia may actually tbe the rational mind’s last attempt to cling to sanity in the face of chaos. “Something is going on here!” is the cry. “These things do not just happen!”)

    I will reiterate what I have committed to before: You can find crazy in the ranks of any cause, and even if the cause helps to trigger or shape the crazy, it rarely creates the crazy from scratch, and often has less to do with it than one might think. It’s always tempting to hold a movement’s bad apples against it, but it is seldom merited.

    Stephen J. (f77922)

  130. They? I found that earlier. Of course Twitter since suspended the account so all my retweets are gone.

    Well, the decision came down between suspending the account or verifying it with a blue checkmark.

    JVW (42615e)

  131. Does it pass the smell test to try and blame President Donald Trump or any political figure for the bombs or is the bomber solely to blame for his actions?

    Colonel Haiku (f2bc98)

  132. 132. Good question, Colonel. To some, the answer depends on whether you support Trump sufficiently or not.

    Gryph (08c844)

  133. Does it pass the smell test to try and blame President Donald Trump or any political figure for the bombs or is the bomber solely to blame for his actions?

    i blame the vicious hateful anti-trump rhetoric of sucky sucky CNN

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  134. Patterico (115b1f)

  135. 134. Anti-Trump rhetoric responsible for something that a Trump supporter did? :-/

    Gryph (08c844)

  136. “But then, the nuttiest Trump supporters I see on Twitter — the ones who issue threats and disgusting insults and love love love Trump for his nastiness — a lot of them have probably been wackos for some time as well.”

    Solution: stay the f*ck off of Twitter, it’s a domain of narcissistic raving and other manifestations of mental illness.

    That’s not to say there’s not an occasional jewel to be found among the field of turds.

    Colonel Haiku (f2bc98)

  137. 137. I’ve seen my share of narcissistic raving and other manifestations of mental illness here. I think an even better suggestion is to avoid social media and comment sections altogether.

    Gryph (08c844)

  138. i blame the vicious hateful anti-trump rhetoric of sucky sucky CNN

    happyfeet (28a91b) — 10/26/2018 @ 2:36 pm

    good thinkin’ It’s that damn free speech. Gotta respond with bodyslams and bombs right? Boy it’s a good thing america is so great again.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  139. Solution: stay the f*ck off of Twitter, it’s a domain of narcissistic raving and other manifestations of mental illness.

    I popped over to look at Patterico’s tweets, and yep, Twitter (with the exception of our host, of course) is extra mindlessly stupid today.

    JVW (42615e)

  140. A fuller list of false flag pushers on the right:

    Ann Coulter
    Rush Limbaugh
    Michael Savage
    James Woods
    Mike Flynn Jr.
    Frank Gaffney
    Kurt Schlichter
    Candace Owens
    David Horowitz
    John Cardillo
    Laura Loomer
    Jacob Wohl
    Chadwick Moore
    John Lott

    Some have deleted tweets related to their claims.

    Dana (a2bc4e)

  141. i do free speech all up in it every day but you don’t see me inciting mail bombers like those sick twisted hateful freaks on CNN

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  142. What was he doing politically before Trump came on the scene in 15/16? Given the context of his lengthy rap sheet over 20 years, i would like to know more

    Shorty Gitlowe (b0f75b)

  143. Patterico (115b1f)

  144. 140… it is terrible over there, JVW. Couple that with their determined effort to silence conservatives they deem to be effective voices for the cause – too many examples to list – they do not deserve any conservatives supporting them. Leave it to the SJW crowd.

    Colonel Haiku (f2bc98)

  145. i heard Mazie Hirono was gonna oppose Brett Kavanaugh but she backed down after Mr. Sayoc did a threatening tweet

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  146. Patterico (115b1f)

  147. i do free speech all up in it every day but you don’t see me inciting mail bombers like those sick twisted hateful freaks on CNN

    happyfeet (28a91b) — 10/26/2018 @ 2:45 pm

    Yes, those damn people with the wrong speech! Those are the ones that we need to stop! Bodyslams for them!

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  148. If these bombs were all dangerous but essentially inoperable, it suggests to me that he was consistent in how he built them but mistaken in understanding how to make them function. Maybe he did not follow the instructions correctly or maybe he used instructions that were flawed.

    DRJ (15874d)

  149. he made a van with helpful pictures so everybody would know which people are doing the bad incendiary rhetoric

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  150. You can read the complaint against Sayoc here.

    Dana (a2bc4e)

  151. it’s no accident that all the people he sent packages to are the ones who speak in the most vile and hateful ways about our president, President Donald Trump

    there’s a DEFINITE pattern there if you look

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  152. Silver lining: He won’t have to sleep there anymore.

    JRH (f51cae)

  153. I want to know if he had accomplices in New York. If not, maybe the Soros pipe bomb came from someone else. But it would seem likely he worked with someone. Otherwise, who hand delivered it to his mailbox? It will be interesting to see what his tech stuff reveals.

    Dana (a2bc4e)

  154. He also threatened a political pundit after she appeared on Fox and Colin Kaepernick. And apparently there are others he mistakenly threatened. An angry man.

    DRJ (15874d)

  155. it’s no accident that all the people he sent packages to are the ones who speak in the most vile and hateful ways about our president, President Donald Trump

    there’s a DEFINITE pattern there if you look

    happyfeet (28a91b) — 10/26/2018 @ 2:56 pm

    Yeah, Jeff Flake is really saying things that a sane person would call “vile.” It’s not merely that you disagree with him… his speech is real real bad! bodyslams! It’s the fault of these critics! How dare they think their speech would be free of reprisal? Thank goodness America is great again!

    I think the fault lies with the guy who did the thing that was bad, the bomb making.

    But people who promote this idea that it’s truly evil and horrible for someone to criticize Trump are nutty and it’s no wonder they are acting really uncomfortable today. It’s one thing to like Trump, it’s another to think criticizing him is ‘vile’ or ‘hateful’ unless that criticism really was some fringe thing (granted some of that is certainly out there… but it’s not regularly on CNN).

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  156. i do free speech all up in it every day but you don’t see me inciting mail bombers like those sick twisted hateful freaks on CNN

    I don’t think you understand what this means.

    Dana (a2bc4e)

  157. Dana: Thank you for your list (#41) of false-flag pushers.

    The thing about hive brains, generally: They’re really not very smart. They don’t smooth out the failings of each member, but rather, multiply them. Q: How could they not see this coming? A: Either they did (but didn’t care), or they’re living inside a bubble just as thick and impenetrable as the opposite-polarity bubble Rachel Maddow lives in.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  158. false-flag pushers

    the trashy fake news people on the tv were saying it could be russians

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  159. If these bombs were all dangerous but essentially inoperable, it suggests to me that he was consistent in how he built them but mistaken in understanding how to make them function. Maybe he did not follow the instructions correctly or maybe he used instructions that were flawed.

    Putting a timer on a mail-bomb is kind of fundamentally missing the point.

    Dave (9664fc)

  160. As our host can already, or soon will be able to, confirm, for it is upon his recommendation that I’m now reading it:

    Nebraska Sen. Ben Sasse’s new book discusses the first sort of possibility that I suggested above (#158), viz, that the false-flag theorists could see this result coming but genuinely don’t care. It’s the subject of Chapter 4 of his book, in fact, entitled “The Polarization Business Model.”

    Beldar (fa637a)

  161. Stephen J, at 130:

    thank you.

    I don’t think it’s fair to tar trumpists by association with this guy, but i *do* want a retraction from the people who, before anything was known, tried to tar liberals and democrats with this guy.

    Brotherico, at 120:

    > t was reported they received a suspicious device and opened it (really?)

    you’d think that people wouldn’t do that, but.

    the last time i was a juror (three times on a jury for me! all criminal trials. once when i was in law school, once since i’ve been barred) part of the fact pattern, AS ATTESTED BY THE DA, was this:

    * nypd guys encounter someone they’d earlier noticed being suspicious
    * he’s left a duffel bag which is obviously heavy on the ground
    * he takes off when he sees them, leaving the bag
    * they stop him and cite him for littering (???)
    * he’s super nervous
    * so they think the bag is a bomb
    * and they open it

    i mean, this is the da’s story: the cops opened a bag, on a crowded intersection, which they thought contained a bomb.

    if the COPS are gonna do that in new york, why wouldn’t a reporter?

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  162. This is just so unbelievably rich: a blue-checkmark Vox writer wants to know what professional consequences conservatives pushing false flag narratives will face -this after he falsely accuses “the entire right” of pushing said narrative:

    The entire right, including prominent media & political figures, spent yesterday pushing a “false flag” narrative about the bombs. They were incorrect & grossly irresponsible. Will there be any apologies? Professional consequences of any sort? At all?

    Pot, kettle, etc.

    Dana (a2bc4e)

  163. Yes, those damn people with the wrong speech! Those are the ones that we need to stop! Bodyslams for them!

    Study: Twenty-five percent of millennials suffer from PTSD due to Trump’s election

    Lead researcher Melissa Hagan of San Francisco State University attributed the high stress levels to Trump’s “divisive tone” regarding race and identity.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  164. It looks like he is of Filipino heritage but he keeps talking about the Unconquered Seminole Tribe. Is he Seminole (doubtful) or part of/a fan of the MMA at the Seminole Hard Rock venues?

    DRJ (15874d)

  165. Munroe, at 90: i’m having a very difficult time understanding your comment as doing anything other than responding to criticism of one person’s bad behavior by deflecting the conversation to talk about someone else’s bad behavior. i’m struggling not to infer that either (a) you generally think that one person’s bad behavior justifies another person’s, or (b) you think that exclusively when the person whose behavior is being justified is a member of your tribe.

    Can you help me understand why either inference is wrong?

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  166. Happyfeet, that’s a pretty silly study indeed, and an insult to veterans and first responders who actually deal with PTSD, but it’s not relevant to your claim that CNN and Jeff Flake incited this stuff with their ‘free’ speech. You can’t put this on them. Fault lies with the MAGA bomber.

    Dana, indeed the left has a lot of people who ghoulishly take advantage of every chance they get to label the whole right, blame them, be completely unfair. Both sides are developing into aggressively polarized, because there’s more money in it that way.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  167. happyfeet, at 164: that number is a bit high, but ….

    i’m a victim of childhood emotional abuse.

    trump’s *manner of public speaking*, his constant unjustified bragging, and his constant distortions of the truth, all *strongly* remind me of some of the people involved in my abuse.

    i can’t blame him for that; he is who he is, and he isn’t one of the people who abused me.

    but it *does* mean that his presence in the office is a constant irritant at a deep, lizard brain psychological level.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  168. So that was his mistake, an incorrect detonator or timer? Also, I thought some devices were hand-delivered.

    DRJ (15874d)

  169. Is he Seminole (doubtful) or part of/a fan of the MMA at the Seminole Hard Rock venues?

    Or a Florida State football fan?

    Dave (9664fc)

  170. What I’m seeing on the part of Dems and TV talking heads is basically “we told you Trump was going to get someone killed, and all Republicans are either Trump or Sayoc”, and the NYT with their boneheaded short story deal earlier this week, is they were given a political layup, and they managed to kick it into the upper deck, trip, and land on their junk. Smug silence or smug kumbaya message could have been a winner, but nope, hold my beer.

    Obama was helpfully silent, but he’s on the beach or something.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (9c3939)

  171. Further to my comment at #161 re Sen. Sasse’s new book, and one likely explanation for why the false flag theorists raced each other to the farthest end of the limb:

    A senior producer at one of America’s largest cable news networks once let me in on “rule one” of their segment selection: “We only do two kinds of stories,” he tole me — “those that make people who love us love us more, and those that make people who hate us hate us more.” …

    Beldar (fa637a)

  172. Gryph, at 124: i find that in general i’m skeptical of the mental functioning of people who drive around in vans with windows plastered in propaganda.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  173. i have trouble understanding that Mr. aphrael cause he makes me feel safe and loved and cared-for

    but i’m from texas and really even though President Trump’s from a whole different state, his braggadocio seems like that of a regular old good old boy to me

    i like how he’s so honest, even if sometimes he gets certain facts and statements wrong

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  174. @141. Geraldo copped to his error; but what of Lou Dobbs- who whispers sweet nothings into our Captain’s ear??

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  175. > i have trouble understanding that Mr. aphrael cause he makes me feel safe and loved and cared-for

    intellectually i understand that. emotionally — he’s the guy telling lie after lie after lie and if i call him on it, he’ll yell at me and maybe if i’m unlucky, he’ll beat me.

    this isn’t a rational thing, right? it’s reactive programming that developed over years when i was a child. it’s the work of adulthood to struggle with this kind of thing and learn how to set it aside.

    but if i’m going through it, with a relatively mild (as such things are comparable) childhood trauma, i can easily imagine that people with way worse traumas than I are talking to their therapists about trump *all the time*.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  176. Soyac’s rhetoric sounds like the Svalise shooter, Hodgkinson. They are responsible for their actions but there are people on both sides who are easily convinced to do hateful things.

    DRJ (15874d)

  177. “Can you help me understand why either inference is wrong?”
    aphrael (e0cdc9) — 10/26/2018 @ 3:21 pm

    You had hoped to see retractions from those who pushed the false flag theory. I agreed with you.

    I expressed hope that the media would treat these incidents consistently, and not in alignment with the usual tribe they favor.

    Rather than agreeing, you accuse me of deflection.

    I don’t see what I need to explain.

    Munroe (fb9278)

  178. aphrael,

    Interesting how you reference the lizard brain.

    You can certainly experience PTSD from childhood trauma. Many do, and it’s great you freely discuss it, as it’s terrible that mental health issues are stigmatized. But that is different from saying the election of Trump would actually create PTSD. That’s really silly in my book, where people experience legitimately traumatic events being lumped in with people who were shocked Hillary lost an election to a jerk. When we try to be all inclusive, we often wind up screwing up definitions and logical boundaries.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  179. Munroe: you immediately changed the topic to some other people you were angry at, rather than sticking with the topic at hand. Looked an awful lot like deflection. But I take your point that my response feels like an attack if, in fact, you meant no deflection. I apologize for that, and ask: how can i address the changing-of-the-topic-to-other-peoples-behavior without it coming across as an unfair attack?

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  180. So that was his mistake, an incorrect detonator or timer?

    I’m not an expert on bombs (non-nuclear ones, anyway…) but I’ve seen it reported in several places that the devices had timers. That is obviously not the way to kill the recipient of a mailed bomb, since there is only a very brief and unpredictable time window (a few seconds out of the several days the package might be received) when the target will be handling the bomb and vulnerable, before they realize what it is and call police, take precautions, etc.

    Mailed bombs should obviously be fused to explode when the package is opened. That’s what the Unabomber did, very successfully (although he targeted fairly average people who opened their own mail and had no reason to expect the attack, which made it far more likely he would hit his targets).

    Also, I thought some devices were hand-delivered.

    I think that may have been an incorrect surmise drawn from the lack of postmark on the first package.

    But it turned out that most or all of them, including ones definitely sent through the mail, also lacked postmarks (probably due to the shape).

    Dave (9664fc)

  181. Dustin, at 180:

    one of the effects of the breakdown of my marriage (we’re working on trying to rebuild) is that it forced me to look deep in the face a lot of things about myself that i’d been avoiding looking at. an *enormous* part of that is how i remain influenced, more than thirty years later, by injuries sustained during childhood — injuries i couldn’t deal with then, and then never dealt with once i became an adult, because really, who wants to go back and deal with that shit if they don’t have to? it’s scary, and it’s risky, and it *hurts*. :)

    i’ve been diagnosed with complex PTSD. i’m working on it. and for me, part of working on it is *talking about it*. which of course means other people talk to me about their emotional and psychological traumas, and together, if we’re lucky, we help each other heal.

    i’ve had multiple friends describe something similar: trump isn’t causing ptsd, but he’s aggravating their underlying psychological injuries. i have no idea how widespread this is, but it’s definitely a real thing.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  182. DRJ,

    Seminole tribe officials said he was not a member, nor had he ever been.

    Dana (112259)

  183. i like how he’s so honest, even if sometimes he gets certain facts and statements wrong

    i like how President Clinton is such a gentleman, even if sometimes he rapes people

    Dave (9664fc)

  184. 182. I was under the impression that all mail that can’t be auto sorted still has to be cancelled by hand. Stamps can be removed from the mail they’re on, cancelled or not.

    Gryph (5efbad)

  185. 182. I was under the impression that all mail that can’t be auto sorted still has to be cancelled by hand. Stamps can be removed from the mail they’re on, cancelled or not.

    Indeed, but it seems clear the system failed here, somewhere. Maybe the postal worker in charge of hand-canceling oddly-shaped packages at that mail facility was on a meth break…who knows?

    Dave (9664fc)

  186. “how can i address the changing-of-the-topic-to-other-peoples-behavior without it coming across as an unfair attack?”
    aphrael (e0cdc9) — 10/26/2018 @ 3:40 pm

    I thought the topic was “Suspect Identified And Arrested In Package Bomb Scare”. I see now it was “False Flag Pushers must Retract”, or something….

    My apologies. I’ll be more careful next time.

    Munroe (fcc961)

  187. As the G-Men were literally moving in to make an arrest this morning in Florida, our Captain’s favorite go-to TeeVee advisors were still waving that ‘false flag':

    “This morning [Friday, 10/26/2018] Fox and Friends brought on a former FBI agent as an expert to promote the claim that the multitude of the bombs sent to Trump critics was most likely a ‘false flag’ operation to help Democrats in midterms. As news was breaking of more bombs being sent, Fox News brought on former FBI Special Agent Chad Jenkins to explain what law enforcement was doing which apparently included an Alex Jones type conspiracy theory that they had tried to dampen just yesterday on the same program. Yesterday, Fox and Friends brought on Vince Guastamacchia, a former NYPD police officer who told the three co-hosts, “The fact that these bombs have not gone off is a great indication that I feel these are false flag bombings. Am I allowed to elaborate on that?” But this morning the pro-Trump surrogates were all in…”

    Source: https://crooksandliars.com/2018/10/fox-and-friends-promotes-false-flag

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  188. Cesar who? Less than an hour ago, a yankee-doodle-dandy-crowd sporting redcaps were carrying his baggage at a Trump rally were shouting ‘CNN sucks! CNN sucks!’ as warm-up speakers looked on awaiting the arrival of our Captain.

    Call and response– and all that jazz.

    “Oh yeaaaahhh!’ – Louis Armstrong

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  189. You mean the CNN that said those who received the bombs from crazy dood were ‘Trump Targets’?

    Then yes, that CNN sucks like a black hole.

    harkin (ef2377)

  190. Your kidding with the rape joke, right Dave?

    mg (a05430)

  191. Here is the statement from the Seminole Tribe of Florida:

    “We can find no evidence that Cesar Altieri, Caesar Altieri, Caesar Altieri Sayoc, Ceasar Altieri Randazzo (Facebook) or Julus Cesar Milan (Twitter) is or was a member or employee of the Seminole Tribe of Florida, or is or was an employee of Seminole Gaming or Hard Rock International. At this time, we cannot verify if he is or was an employee of a vendor company.”

    Dana (023079)

  192. Aphrael and Dustin
    Is that what obama did to me?

    mg (a05430)

  193. Speaking of bombs, I just discovered that the words/terms

    Anti ballistic missle
    B*tchin
    Clip art
    Gold record
    Interferon
    Leaf blower
    Nucleosynthesis
    Opioid
    Pothead
    REM
    Static cling
    Vietcong

    among others, were all coined the year I was born

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/time-traveler/

    harkin (ef2377)

  194. You mean the CNN that said those who received the bombs from crazy dood were ‘Trump Targets’?

    Then yes, that CNN sucks like a black hole.

    Again: on his Twitter feed, he threatened Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, George Soros, Elizabeth Warren, Cory Booker, Maxine Waters, Sheldon Whitehouse, Mazie Hirono, other Democrats . . .

    . . . and Jeff Flake. A Republican notable for being a critic of Trump.

    He also threatened Jeff Sessions, Bob Mueller, James Comey, and Rod Rosenstein.

    Are we seeing a pattern yet?

    Meanwhile, he went to the inauguration in a MAGA hat, attended a Trump rally chanting TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP, and had numerous tweets to Trump that often started “Trump Trump Trump.”

    It’s not manufacturing a narrative to note these facts and the obvious pattern.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  195. Your kidding with the rape joke, right Dave?

    Obviously.

    I was trying to formulate a sentence as silly as the one by happyfeet, which I quoted.

    Admittedly, trying to outdo happyfeet in a silliness competition is a fool’s errand. But it still gives me a chuckle.

    Dave (9664fc)

  196. Patterico (115b1f)

  197. @ harkin (#195): That link is to an interesting sort, but beware: By “year introduced,” it means “introduced into the Merriam-Webster Dictionary” — not when the word or phrase was first introduced into common American usage. For example, “Catch-22,” the novel, was released in 1961 and made into a feature motion picture in 1970, but didn’t make the M-W Dictionary until 1971. “Sputnik,” by contrast, made it into the dictionary in 1957, the same year as the launch. It’s still an interesting word sorter, but it’s more a timeline of a particular dictionary than of the culture more broadly.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  198. folks seem almost giddy about it, though.
    compared to their reaction to the scalise shooting and the guy being a bernie sanders fan.

    kaf (3d5539)

  199. “It’s not manufacturing a narrative to note these facts and the obvious pattern.

    I was commenting on the assertion that Trump suggested he ‘target’ those people.

    harkin (ef2377)

  200. kaf, the difference is that Hodgkinson hated softball, not Republicans.

    Munroe (af1999)

  201. 200. I think the difference is that the distaste for Trump is much closer to being bipartisan.

    Gryph (5efbad)

  202. 200 –

    “Senator Bernie Sanders and leading Democrats are calling the Republican health care bill a death sentence for thousands of Americans”. – Newsweek

    Nothing to see here, move along.

    harkin (ef2377)

  203. Beldar – I love the year 1957, for all sorts of reasons.

    harkin (ef2377)

  204. This:

    It’s not manufacturing a narrative to note these facts and the obvious pattern.

    Whether a Trump loyalist or not, some things are just plainly clear. Those who consistently absolve Trump of responsibility when he steps in it and faces a backlash may not want to see the pattern that links everything together and points to a logical conclusion because their loyalty to the president may keep them from doing so. But to me, it’s not as if one has to be strong-armed with a hard-sell proposition to present a pattern, because the proof is right there for everyone to see. Straight from the suspect himself. He is the one who has established the pattern. No one else need do anything. By his own hand, by his own mouth, by his own mind he revealed what we need to know in order to be able to draw a logical conclusion. But some will refuse to look and see and acknowledge the nose on their face. Rather they want to stick with their own narrative because it reflects less on the man in the White House to whom they feel a greater sense of loyalty.

    Dana (023079)

  205. The stabbing of congressman peters, the altercation with rand Paul, the incidents in Minnesota (we’ll leave out the threats against hatch and grassLet and collins because there was follow through.

    narciso (d1f714)

  206. Perhaps there will be some good that comes out of this episode, e.g., miscreants like antifa won’t be allowed to run wild and assault people in the streets of some of their simpatico leftwing cities.

    Nahhhhhhhh…

    Colonel Haiku (f2bc98)

  207. Year of teh Stripper
    plastic found in people’s poop
    crazed Floridaman

    Colonel Haiku (f2bc98)

  208. I doubt that, they’ll probably push onwards, the acquittal of the j 20 protesters encouraged them.

    narciso (d1f714)

  209. “By his own hand, by his own mouth, by his own mind he revealed what we need to know in order to be able to draw a logical conclusion.”
    Dana (023079) — 10/26/2018 @ 5:21 pm

    OK. What conclusion exactly?

    Munroe (84e316)

  210. 207… but what can be said of and for the people who see what they want to see?

    “… A spacecraft. I saw the creatures. They led Big Dave onto the craft. He never told anyone what they did, outside of his report. Of course he told *me*. No one else… The government knows. I cannot repeat it to you. But this thing goes deep, it goes deep, and involves the Government. There is a great deal of fear. You know how certain circles would find it–the knowledge–a threat. They try to limit it.”

    Some people are delusional and it doesn’t take much of anything to set them on their wayward course.

    Colonel Haiku (f2bc98)

  211. OK. What conclusion exactly?

    That he is a fan of Trump who tried to kill Trump’s enemies or threatened Trump’s enemies specifically because they were Trump’s enemies. Not because they were leftists or Democrats, but because they were Trump’s enemies.

    That does not make Trump responsible or Trump’s other supporters guilty by association.

    But the conclusion I have stated is screamingly obvious, given that the targets of his wrath included CNN, Flake, Mueller, Sessions, Rosenstein, as well as all the Democrats.

    Patterico (6228e1)

  212. The perpetrator of the act, the deed is the person responsible for his or her actions. It’s called accountability and the country needs a helluva lot more of it, top to bottom.

    Colonel Haiku (f2bc98)

  213. That does not make Trump responsible or Trump’s other supporters guilty by associations

    Thanks, that needed to be said. I thought the fact that he seemingly loves Trump and hates people who wish to take Trump down was a given now.

    harkin (ef2377)

  214. @207:

    “Those who consistently absolve Trump of responsibility when he steps in it and faces a backlash may not want to see the pattern that links everything together and points to a logical conclusion”

    “pattern that links everything together” wow that sounds a lot like CONSPIRACY THEORIZING to me, we don’t tolerate no conspiracy theorizing on this board.

    But since we’re all conspiracy theorizing here, the ‘pattern’ I’ve seen among most of the mass shooters and terrorists quite recently is:

    1. ‘Known wolf’, multiple priors, FBI, local judges, local police suspiciously lenient.
    2. FBI or government agents directly connected to suspect (which tends to explain number 1.)
    3. Local police and non-politically connected local decisionmakers in general not let on scene immediately or kept out of the loop, many delays.
    4. Media having talking points prepared in advance.
    5. Destruction or permanent removal of evidence at scene.
    6. Poor to nonexistent explanations much later.

    They might all have been people who totally snapped individually, or they may have been people trained by handlers to commit false flag crimes (that were perfectly real to them, the difference in the relationship between Qanon and his followers and an FBI agent and a Cliven Bundy type is almost non-existent.)

    As of right now, I guess we can assume Cesar is the guy who started his Twitter account on the same day as the Don Jr. Trump Tower meeting, dodged suspicion for his prior record, dodged getting pulled over for basic auto visibility laws in a freshly painted white van with openly offensive brand new hi-res meme collages plastered all over his windows that laughed in the face of Florida sun and weathering, while using his former mailroom clerk expertise to mail a bunch of duds to the mostly-unlisted addresses of the highest-profile politicians in the land. (Note that Michael Avenatti, of all people, didn’t get any bombs, but he’s not on the Democrat Christmas list anymore!)

    Julius Cesar (b80d97)

  215. > dodged getting pulled over for basic auto visibility laws in a freshly painted white van with openly offensive brand new hi-res meme collages

    i don’t *know* anything about this case, obviously.

    but … crazy dudes driving vans plastered in propoganda aren’t that uncommon, and in my experience usually the town police think the dudes are crazy but harmless and leave them alone because it’s not worth the hassle.

    my favorite example of this is the stephen-king-shot-john-lennon dude, http://q1065.fm/files/2018/08/king-van-1.jpg?w=980&q=75, but really people with this level of crazy can be found, and ignored, all over the place.

    so … nah, it doesn’t surprise me that the bomber never got pulled over for his van. because the van plastering form of crazy, while uncommon, isn’t so rare as we’d think.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  216. OK, well then great. It’s a Trump thing, not a Republican thing. For a minute there, I thought Republican rhetoric would now suddenly get in the media’s crosshairs. But, it’s only pro-Trump rhetoric. Republicans can safely wear their conservative views on their sleeve and scream it to the mountain tops with no fear of repercussions, just like before all this mess happened. Phew!

    Munroe (f533ee)

  217. “pattern that links everything together” wow that sounds a lot like CONSPIRACY THEORIZING to me, we don’t tolerate no conspiracy theorizing on this board.

    *follows this observation regarding clear evidence with own actual lunatic conspiracy theorizing*

    Patterico (6228e1)

  218. In northern Dade and western Broward county, that’s like having a cross hair on yourself.

    Narciso (d1f714)

  219. This guy went over the edge a long time ago. Nothing a politician – any politician – says or does justifies acts of violence by anyone.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  220. He was charged with five federal counts: interstate transport of explosives, mailing of explosives, threats against former presidents, making threatening interstate communications and assault of current or former officials.

    Can someone explain why he’s not charged with attempted murder? Is that it because these are all federal crimes and attempted murder falls under a more local jurisdiction?

    harkin (ef2377)

  221. folks seem almost giddy about it, though.

    Personally, I was shooting for mocking and insulting the hyperpartisan wanker.

    Paul Montagu (7b9e3b)

  222. He’s nuttier than a whole keebler elves condo development

    Narciso (d1f714)

  223. @223 I don’t know but it looks like the mailing of explosives charge has a with intent to kill or injure another component.

    frosty48 (6226c1)

  224. @223

    Popehat did an explainer on why he probably wasn’t charged with terrorism, this probably answers your question as well:

    https://twitter.com/Popehat/status/1055966669426683904

    there’s more to it, but:
    “First reason: he’s only been charged in a criminal complaint. That’s a preliminary step in the case, often secured in great haste. He has a right to grand jury indictment. The indictment generally has the government’s more complete set of charges, done at leisure.”

    Davethulhu (02d505)

  225. Lock this nut up before some lawyer gets him off

    mg (a05430)

  226. Aphrael, I don’t want to pay too much attention to arguing about happyfeet’s link about PTSD, but I do want to express my best wishes to you and your husband to stay on track. I’ve been there.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  227. “Hey, remember the one about the communist — trained in the Soviet Union — who shot an American president causing the right in the US — which was neither communist nor in sympathy with the Soviet Union — to be cast into the wilderness for a generation?

    If you’re getting flashbacks to this insanity you’re not alone. You’re not even close to alone.

    I’m not going to tell you not to make fake bombs and send them to people. I’m not going to tell you that, because I don’t think any of you needs to be told that.

    But the left thinks you need to be told that.

    They’re up on their high horse, demanding civility from us that they never dispense nor adhere to.

    Perhaps because they conceptualize themselves as a hive mind, they think we can send word out through the neural net and control how every marginally attached nut behaves or thinks.

    On the other hand, they not only don’t apologize for their nuts, they act like it’s a bad thing their nuts don’t take all of us out.

    Cory Booker, Nancy Pelosi, and Maxine Waters have all called for violence and harassment against Republicans. Run of the mill entertainers who identify as Democrat talk about killing the president. And not just Trump, either. All Republican presidents are the subject of assassination porn.

    Heck, just now, just today Rick Wilson called for someone to put a bullet in Trump’s head as Ace reports.

    And pardon me, we have to disavow our opposition to socialism and mind our p’s and q’s because we might cause violence.

    But the left can deploy Antifa to turn entire downtowns into war zones. Leftist affiliated nuts can shoot Scalize and put Rand Paul in the hospital fighting for his life, but hey, they don’t have to apologize for anything.

    What you have to understand here is that what the Left is telling you when it accuses you of causing violence from some marginally attached to reality felon (yes, a felon; yes, a believer in chemtrails; yes, a hater of Monsanto; his “support of Trump” is almost accidental, it could as easily have been My Little Pony fandom.) They’re telling you that you don’t have a right to exist. You are, in their opinion an oppressor and standing in the way of their socialist paradise, which is, of course, the best for mankind. They are allowed to shoot us, beat us, run us out of restaurants, attack us, call us names. We can’t respond. If we respond at all we’re causing nutcases to send fake bombs or something.”

    Read it all >>> https://pjmedia.com/trending/dont-let-the-media-and-democrats-get-away-with-it/

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  228. His former manager says “He was anti-gay, anti-black, anti-Jewish, you name it. Everybody that wasn’t white and wasn’t a white supremacist didn’t belong in the world.”

    She says she is openly lesbian and he told her God made a mistake with her and that she should burn in hell.

    She also, somewhat incongruously, described him as a model employee.

    Dave (9664fc)

  229. @ the Colonel, #231:

    I certainly agree with what I take to be the main thrust of Sarah’s argument. No one is responsible for what this man did, or what this man said, but him. No one should feel compelled to apologize for actions they didn’t take or words they didn’t say — especially those with which they don’t agree — just because they happen to be “on the same side.” (However that’s defined.)

    It’s nice to read something of hers again without feeling like she hates me.

    Demosthenes (7fae81)

  230. Re: 231. We could play that game endlessly. We all remember the images of Obama being lynched in effigy after he was first elected (if you don’t remember, they’re not hard to find). Ted Nugent told that same President to suck on his machine gun and told Hillary to “you might want to ride one of these into the sunset, you worthless b*tch.” Later Trump invited him to the White House. I mean. how exhausting it must be to pretend one’s own side is beyond reproach, and yeah I know both sides do it. Liberals will completely forget the Baseball shooting. It’s exhausting. I don’t know how people have the energy to be that intellectually and morally dishonest.

    JRH (f51cae)

  231. OT but further to the links and comments nk & I were exchanging yesterday: All is developing as I have foretold:

    The Senate Judiciary Committee released this today: UPDATE: Avenatti Referred for Additional Investigation. The supplemental referral is based on this astonishing NBC News report — astonishing both in what it reveals and in its timing, which was delayed (almost surely deliberately) in a way that clearly disadvantaged Kavanaugh — regarding a still-unnamed Avenatti client whose sworn declaration, shown by Avenatti to NBC News before the Kavanaugh vote, had been refuted by the client in its most key aspects (whether she saw Kavanaugh spiking any punch or abusing any women) during multiple conversations with those same reporters.

    The NBC News report also includes a set of events which strongly imply, at least to my eyes, that Avenatti threatened his own client with contempt jeopardy unless she’d recant her recantation and adhere to the statement he’d drafted for her, which she did in a text message to NBC News, immediately before recanting the story to them again on the telephone. I think that actually creates a lot more potential criminal jeopardy — and incidentally thereto, jeopardy to his law license — than could likely ever be proved with respect to the original drafting of the statement.

    The attorney-client privilege belongs to, and may always be voluntarily waived by, the client. If this one’s really turned on Avenatti and wised up to his manipulation of her, she might end up putting him in prison — and I have not said that about anything that’s come out about him before now.

    The actual supplemental referral letter does a good job of arguing the sequence of events revealed in the NBC News reporting, but doesn’t really add anything much to it. Nevertheless, I think this is more likely to blow Avenatti up than anything relating to his other and better-known client, Julie Swetnick.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  232. I suppose it’s also possible that there might be a situation in which NBC News still refuses to tell law enforcement investigators (who’ll presumably be contacting them as a result of this supplemental referral letter) the name of Avenatti’s client. That is, they may still consider her a “confidential source” whose identity they’re bound to continue concealing, despite their having already reported in detail on all sorts of other sensitive, and possibly criminally inculpatory, information about. If so, we may get into another Judith Miller situation, where the DoJ would have to go through their drill, per regulations, of exhausting all other possible means of inquiry before trying to compel the NBC Reporters to give up the name.

    We also shouldn’t assume that just because NBC News has now revealed these exculpatory-to-Kavanaugh facts, NBC News has “made a clean breast of it” and released everything else, pertaining to this Kavanaugh client or Swetnick or anyone else, that might also have been exculpatory.

    One also presumes that Mystery Client might be reading the news along with the rest of us, and realize that the FBI might want to chat with her; she ought to be lawyering up with a new lawyer who’s not someone recommended by Avenatti, who might well advise her to reach out now on her own to the FBI, while there are immunity deals still to be had for prompt cooperation that lets DoJ avoid having to subpoena the NBC Reporters before a grand jury.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  233. It’s sometimes easier to prove witness-tampering than subornation of perjury. The pressure to recant the recantation could be proved directly by a combination of the client’s testimony when meshed with the reporters’ testimony, along with Avenatti’s tweets and emails, with the sequence and timing becoming the circumstantial glue which makes the direct evidence nearly irrefutable, and more than enough to overcome Avenatti’s version in an I-said/client-said swearing match.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  234. Avenatti’s lawyer (if he has one, which he should) should tell him to STFU. But he either won’t solicit or won’t follow that advice, which is another way Avenatti is so very much like Donald J. Trump.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  235. Thank you, Beldar. I’m on an Android at my super-secret secure getaway and it’s putting a big cramp on my commenting. I am enjoying the schadenfreude of Avenatti looking to score a coup and getting scalped, however.

    nk (9651fb)

  236. #236 .. so crazy to believe in conspiracy theories about the Left.

    Bob (9af831)

  237. Avenatti won’t be prosecuted. The Left ignores its crimes. Look at Rosie O Donnell with her straw donations versus D Souza.

    Creepy Porn Lawyer will continue his Hamptons, Manhattan, Beverly Hills cocktail party living.

    Bob (9af831)

  238. 233… yes, I thought she made some very good points. What had she written that had you feeling that way?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  239. 234… Ted Nugent… seriously? And you’re comparing fringe characters you allege hung Obama in effigy to mainline Democrat politicians who should know better?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  240. Heck this event happened a few weeks ago, but it doesn’t matter, heck If someone ends up dead they’ll find a way to bury it.

    Narciso (d1f714)

  241. Planned Parenthood Action
    @PPact
    We still believe Julie Swetnick. #BelieveSurvivors

    harkin (ef2377)

  242. christine ford and julie swetnick should do a rape joke sitcom together about their horrific experiences with lol-rape

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  243. Is there a lesson we are to take from this?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  244. Re: Avenatti… if Cocaine Mitch and Co. hadn’t made their recommendation to the DOJ, nbc news would still be sitting on this info

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  245. Ah what was that movie with mira sorvino and lisa kudrow,

    Narciso (d1f714)

  246. Nope, CBF is just homely and shapeless though that’s probably Laura Linney in a film treatment.

    urbanleftbehind (7ca14a)

  247. Now this – OT, mind you – is a waste and I’m sure there’s a fevered search for the footage in question- http://www.cbsnews.com/news/lauren-mccluskey-death-melvin-rowland-sexual-extortion-compromising-photos-before-killing-utah-student/

    urbanleftbehind (7ca14a)

  248. You know, the claims of “false flag” earlier, and now the blowback, recall to mind, the allegory of the “boy who cried ‘wolf!'” We know what happened to the boy, but the story never talks about what happened to the townsfolk. Perhaps we are experiencing what happened to them.

    There had to be those who wished to come to the rescue one more time, only to be called foolish by those who had had enough of their time wasted. There were those who would have gone if only one person had led the way. There are those who never responded to the boys cries, but are engaged in finger waving. Classic allegories endure for a reason. As Paul Harvey would say, “And now you know the rest of the story.”

    Take two:

    There are two things, the first being the bombs (and maker who is the wolf); the second thing is the political struggle to control the perception of the first. The Dems are the boy, and everyone else are the townsfolk. I know this is obvious to those who have done the analysis.

    Usually, the story’s lesson warns against performing false flags because of the consequences of no longer being believed. This human, and understandable, reaction of no longer extending credibility to the false flagger was taken, mostly, as a just response since those who responded to the earlier false flags were cut some slack when they no longer wished to expend their time and effort in service of a villain.

    The allegory today, however, has been twisted to caste those who have endured one false flag too many, as some sort of perp themselves. This is unjust because it assigns knowledge that they did not have; that they knew the truth but were acting against it anyway. Yes, they were wrong, but can you blame them any more than the townsfolk who ignored the boy who cried wolf? YMMV

    felipe (023cc9)

  249. There are those who never responded to the boys cries, but are engaged in finger waving

    There, is my Freudian slip!

    felipe (023cc9)

  250. When will we find out that he was an FBI “informant”, like so many others have turned to be?

    nk (9651fb)

  251. There you’re cooking with gas

    Narciso (d1f714)

  252. re 245: “And you’re comparing fringe characters you allege hung Obama in effigy to mainline Democrat politicians who should know better?”

    Nope, I’m not. I’d compare the people who hung Obama in effigy (no “allegations”; try Google image search) to the people who hung Bush in effigy. i’d compare Ted Nugent to Kathy Griffin. I’d compare mainline Dem. politicians who should know better to the current occupant of the WH.

    My point: inflammatory rhetoric and violent intimidation exists on both sides, as do people who refuse to admit their side has a problem.

    JRH (f51cae)

  253. And like Zimmerman, he’s a “look” that would arouse suspicion and invite derision north of the First Coast.

    urbanleftbehind (7ca14a)

  254. Dana,

    You may have already addressed this but the Miami Herald quotes the family lawyer saying Soyac was unsuccessful in life and had mental health/abandonment issues so he was looking for a group/father. For a time, he claimed to be from the Seminole tribe until he became a Trump supporter. His mother is a lifelong Democrats but he was never political until Trump.

    He sounds like the GOP baseball shooter, Hodgkinson, who supported Bernie. Do extremes attract extremes?

    DRJ (15874d)

  255. But they had to construct a narrative about him, he was no one that would have raised a fuss in Seminole county.

    Narciso (d1f714)

  256. Now a multiple fatality shooting in a Pittsburgh synagogue.

    Colonel Haiku (09e484)

  257. 258… the media, former AGs, former office holders including that schiffheel Obama, former bureaucrats, Hollywood, current office holders, there is no comparison.

    Colonel Haiku (09e484)

  258. @258

    inflammatory rhetoric and violent intimidation exists on both sides

    It’s easy to acknowledge that inflammatory rhetoric exists on both sides. The question of degree and whether either side can, will, or should self censor isn’t as easy to answer. Expecting the right to self censor in hopes that the left will reciprocate seems foolhardy. Especially since it’s proven to be such a good motivator for turning out the vote.

    But rhetoric doesn’t always lead to action and it’s not so clear that violent intimidation exists in anything close to equal measure on both sides. There isn’t an equivalent to antifa. There are no organized groups stalking democrates.

    What’s interesting to me is that I expected an opposing equivalent of antifa to have developed by now. But we haven’t seen that yet.

    frosty48 (6226c1)

  259. Perhaps Soros has halted funding Anti-fa until Election Day.

    mg (9e54f8)

  260. “What’s interesting to me is that I expected an opposing equivalent of antifa to have developed by now.”

    I think that goes back in part to the old chestnut that Charles Krauthammer, among others, used to quote: “To understand American politics, you have to understand that the Right thinks the Left is stupid, while the Left thinks the right is evil.” You don’t form mobs to fight off stupid people.

    One thing that both disturbs and fascinates me about politics today is that for the first time I see this dynamic really changing. One prerequisite for real conflict is for both sides to genuinely think their opposition beyond any lesser reach.

    Stephen J. (c5f80e)

  261. The right has many smaller groups that sometimes quarrel with each other. The right has much more “latent capabilities” that do not depend on NPC tactics and scale. With BLM and the recess of influence of skeptical libertarians and pure fiscal conservatives, the referees- law enforcement- is more clearly on the right.

    urbanleftbehind (7ca14a)

  262. Sayoc’s manager describes the inside of his MAGA-mobile: puppets with their heads cut off, mannequins with their heads cut off, nooses, “freaky scary”.

    Dave (9664fc)

  263. “What’s interesting to me is that I expected an opposing equivalent of antifa to have developed by now.”

    It’s been around for over 150 years.

    Dave (9664fc)

  264. Thank God I didn’t hit that from work, Dave.

    urbanleftbehind (7ca14a)

  265. 269… interesting… both associated with the Democrat Party.

    Colonel Haiku (09e484)

  266. Col., now you well hear a Ross Geller sound alike yelling “But the Parties Switched!!!” with the same conviction as he plead that he was “On a Break!!”

    urbanleftbehind (7ca14a)

  267. 258… mobs in the streets, mobs on Capitol Hill, false allegations, antifa on both coasts…

    There is no comparison to be made here.

    Colonel Haiku (09e484)

  268. both associated with the Democrat Party.

    Apart from both being left of center, I’m don’t think Antifa is “associated with the Democratic Party” (antifa graffiti), but no doubt about the KKK (for its first 100 years or so).

    The KKK supported Donald Trump in 2016, though.

    (The link is to a Washington Post story)

    Dave (9664fc)

  269. 269… I had no idea these people went beyond reprehensible rhetoric and were beating people down in the streets.

    Speech is not violence or actions. Surely you understand that.

    Colonel Haiku (09e484)

  270. Antifa are the Democrats’ shock troops. Get real.

    Colonel Haiku (09e484)

  271. Antifa and BLM take what Democrats are all about to the next level.

    Colonel Haiku (09e484)

  272. They have a groupthink/diversity problem l… even in Texas… https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=11450

    Colonel Haiku (09e484)

  273. Even Aggie?

    urbanleftbehind (7ca14a)

  274. Who runs Heavy.com? They might just become the news savior in the land between the MSMs and FoxOan.

    urbanleftbehind (7ca14a)

  275. They aggregate well, in the Bethesda matter not as completely.

    Narciso (d1f714)

  276. “The KKK supported Donald Trump in 2016, though.”
    Dave (9664fc) — 10/27/2018 @ 9:52 am

    The KKK is pro-Trump as Antifa is NeverTrump.

    Munroe (235115)

  277. Keep stoking the fire

    mg (536c95)

  278. And the RCP has often supported Democrats, so what.

    Colonel Haiku (09e484)

  279. Including Obama… so what?

    “The leader of America’s most prominent communist party credits Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders with helping usher socialism into the political mainstream, but says it’s essential to back Hillary Clinton if she defeats Sanders in the Democratic presidential primary.

    John Bachtell, national chairman of the Communist Party USA, says he cast a ballot for Sanders in the Illinois primary in March, but that the self-styled democratic socialist’s loyal backers should temper their criticism of Clinton as a warmongering Wall Street puppet.

    “The most important thing is keeping our eye on this extreme right-wing danger and really hoping that all political organizations and democratic forces will unite together to try to defeat that,” he says.

    “Whoever emerges from the primary fight, there will be a very broad coalition to try to get them elected,” he says. “We support independence from the Democratic Party and work with forces laying the groundwork for a third party, but it’s not realistic in this election.”

    The nearly century-old Communist Party USA hasn’t run a presidential candidate since 1984 and softened its ideology following the collapse of the Soviet Union. It does not advocate the violent overthrow of the government, but rather socialism through the ballot box.

    Bachtell, who lives in Chicago, says the party’s 5,000 or so members and Sanders are similar in ideology.”

    https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-05-31/communist-party-leader-voted-for-sanders-will-back-clinton?context=amp

    Colonel Haiku (09e484)

  280. And the RCP has often supported Democrats, so what.

    You’re arguing against itself.

    You claimed the KKK and AntiFa were “associated with the Democratic party”.

    I pointed out that that that

    a) is not true (to my knowledge) of AntiFa, and
    b) is was true for much of the KKK’s history, but no longer (as evidenced by the fact that they supported Donald Trump in 2016)

    I never made the counter-claim that the KKK was “associated with” the Republican party, which has always, as an institution, condemned the KKK.

    It is a tougher call to say whether the KKK is “associated with” Donald Trump, since he has sent mixed messages about his views of their activities, for instance in Charlottesville, and on another occasion refused to condemn their former leader. He seems to oppose them when he is reading from a teleprompter, and have other ideas when he is not.

    Dave (9664fc)

  281. arguing against *yourself

    gah.

    Dave (9664fc)

  282. Blah, blah blah

    Colonel Haiku (09e484)

  283. Calling them antifa as well as the resistance flatters their egos, for lack of a better term id call them the red army faction, I know its derivative.

    narciso (d1f714)

  284. Antifa and BLM are the shock troops of the Democrat party.

    Trump – as was GWB and as were other R presidents before him – the head of the party.

    Colonel Haiku (09e484)

  285. I think it’s as inaccurate to call AntiFa “the shock troops of the Democratic party” as it would be to call the KKK and Stormfront “the shock troops of the Republican party”.

    Something tells me we may have to agree to disagree on this point.

    Dave (9664fc)

  286. A President Who Condones Political Violence

    When people talk about Trump condoning and inviting political violence, his behavior over the past 48 hours—and that of his followers—is exactly what they have in mind: the utter lack of sympathy for those attacked or threatened; the readiness to blame victims of terrorism for being terrorized; the determination to exonerate the president of any consequences for his own wild behavior; the indulgence of wild conspiracy theories as a means to achieve that exoneration, piped directly into the Oval Office from the furthest extremes of American life.

    Dave (9664fc)

  287. @292 The headline for the article isn’t backed up by the article itself or by any actual facts. It spends most of its time poking at the false flag arguments. The subtle shift from he hasn’t been sympathetic enough to utter lack of sympathy to exoneration of bad behavior to condoning and inviting violence is long and full of semicolons but not very objective.

    When I think of condoning and inviting violence I think of statements like “it’s about time something like this happened” and “we need more of this” or “you cannot be civil with a political party that wants to destroy what you stand for” and “you get out and you create a crowd. And you push back on them. And you tell them they’re not welcome anymore, anywhere”.

    frosty48 (6226c1)

  288. “POINT TO REMEMBER: So far terror attacks tied to Obama Chicago pal Bill Ayers have killed more people than the evil bombs mailed by Cesar Seyoc. And the unrepentant Ayers had the rampant stupidity to say he should have detonated more bombs.”

    Colonel Haiku (09e484)

  289. Did Trump start his political career in Seyocs living room?

    mg (536c95)

  290. Remember this is where Jeong came http:// thr verge/platform/amp/2018/10/27/18032930/paypal-banned-gab-following-pittsburgh-shooting

    Narciso (d1f714)

  291. “POINT TO REMEMBER: So far terror attacks tied to Obama Chicago pal Bill Ayers have killed more people than the evil bombs mailed by Cesar Seyoc.”

    Whaddabout Chappaquiddick?

    Ted Kennedy killed more people than Seyoc.

    Munroe (27e7c6)

  292. 292… As a guy who leans conservative, I don’t always quote political pundits or former speechwriters. But when I do, I prefer to ignore David Frum and Teh Atlantic.

    Sheesh!

    Colonel Haiku (09e484)

  293. Stay reality-based, my friends.

    Colonel Haiku (09e484)

  294. As predicted:

    “POINT TO REMEMBER: So far terror attacks tied to Obama Chicago pal Bill Ayers have killed more people than the evil bombs mailed by Cesar Seyoc.”

    Whaddabout Chappaquiddick?

    Indeed. What the @#$% about Chappaquiddick?!

    Dave (9664fc)

  295. Ted was a drunk and Mary-Jo died.

    mg (536c95)

  296. Unless one has witnessed vehicular homicide it never happened Got it.

    mg (536c95)

  297. Beldar (fa637a) — 10/26/2018 @ 8:42 pm

    The attorney-client privilege belongs to, and may always be voluntarily waived by, the client.

    Somethingg that nobody pointed out to Christine Blasey Ford when she was testifying.

    It can’t be waived after the client is dead, as th eSupreme Court ruled in case Brett KAvanaugh argued in front of the Supreme Court and lost. Te last time the New York Times wrote aboput that, it fdidn’t mention the name Vincent Fostrtr

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  298. One tine Sayoc was arrested for shoplifting he was carrying $19,000 on him. Another report says he had a lot of money but lost it.

    He did deny he was responsible. The report he admitted it seems to be wrong

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  299. He also threatened Sheldon Whitehouse, Kirsten Gillibrand, Mazie Hirono, Luis V. Gutierrez, Chuck Schumer, David Hogg, Jeff Sessions, Bob Mueller, and Rod Rosenstein.

    But not Elizabeth Warren, because she was an American Indian like he was? What’s Jeff Sessions doing here? Because he recused himself?

    His mother is said to have told him womething like what’s with all this Indian stuff? And that he had no Indian ancestry.

    But I think he may have read somewhere that Seminole Indians could come from any background.

    Up to the 1830’s maybe. If they really joined them. Mostly blacks besides different kinds of Indians..

    http://funandsun.com/1tocf/seminole/semhistory.html

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  300. He also threatened Sheldon Whitehouse, Kirsten Gillibrand, Mazie Hirono, Luis V. Gutierrez, Chuck Schumer, David Hogg, Jeff Sessions, Bob Mueller, and Rod Rosenstein.

    But not Elizabeth Warren, because she was an American Indian like he was? What’s Jeff Sessions doing here? Because he recused himself?

    His mother is said to have told him womething like what’s with all this Indian stuff? And that he had no Indian ancestry.

    But I think he may have read somewhere that Seminole Indians could come from any background.

    Up to the 1830’s maybe. If they really joined them. Mostly blacks besides different kinds of Indians..

    http://funandsun.com/1tocf/seminole/semhistory.html

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

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