Patterico's Pontifications

10/10/2018

Turkish Government: Saudi Government Killed and Dismembered Dissident in Their Consulate

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:59 am



A Saudi dissent who had harshly criticized the current Saudi regime on the pages of the Washington Post was murdered in a Saudi Consulate in Turkey and dismembered with a bone saw, according to anonymous sources in the Turkish government. They are blaming the Saudi government. New York Times:

Top Turkish security officials have concluded that the Saudi dissident Jamal Khashoggi was assassinated in the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul on orders from the highest levels of the royal court, a senior official said Tuesday.

The official described a quick and complex operation in which Mr. Khashoggi was killed within two hours of his arrival at the consulate by a team of Saudi agents, who dismembered his body with a bone saw they brought for the purpose.

“It is like ‘Pulp Fiction,’” the official said.

The officials aren’t releasing their evidence; to do so would likely put sources and methods at risk. But we do know that 15 Saudi agents arrived by airplane and left again by airplane after a few hours. They were all Saudi government or security personnel, and one was an autopsy expert who would presumably know how to wield a bone saw. Many are claiming that there is video of the killing, which would not be surprising, given where it occurred:

Another person briefed on the matter, speaking on condition of anonymity to disclose confidential details, told The Times on Saturday that Turkish intelligence had obtained a video of the killing, made by the Saudis to prove that it had occurred.

A commentator close to Mr. Erdogan’s government said so publicly on Tuesday.

“There is a video of the moment of him being killed,” Kemal Ozturk, a columnist in a pro-government newspaper and the former head of a semiofficial news agency, said in an interview on a pro-government television network, citing unnamed security officials.

Khashoggi wrote columns for the Washington Post for about a year. Here’s an example of his writing:

When I speak of the fear, intimidation, arrests and public shaming of intellectuals and religious leaders who dare to speak their minds, and then I tell you that I’m from Saudi Arabia, are you surprised?

With young Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman’s rise to power, he promised an embrace of social and economic reform. He spoke of making our country more open and tolerant and promised that he would address the things that hold back our progress, such as the ban on women driving.

But all I see now is the recent wave of arrests. Last week, about 30 people were reportedly rounded up by authorities, ahead of the crown prince’s ascension to the throne. Some of the arrested are good friends of mine, and the effort represents the public shaming of intellectuals and religious leaders who dare to express opinions contrary to those of my country’s leadership. …

It was painful for me several years ago when several friends were arrested. I said nothing. I didn’t want to lose my job or my freedom. I worried about my family.

I have made a different choice now. I have left my home, my family and my job, and I am raising my voice. To do otherwise would betray those who languish in prison. I can speak when so many cannot. I want you to know that Saudi Arabia has not always been as it is now. We Saudis deserve better.

Why would Khashoggi enter the Saudi Consulate after writing things like that? He had to get a document so that he could be married.

I am a little more than halfway through Infidel, the autobiography of Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a true heroine (can I say heroine?) for feminism — and someone who has been pilloried by “feminists” in America. The book describes Hirsi Ali’s upbringing in Somalia, Ethiopia, Kenya, and Saudi Arabia. The oppression of women she describes in Saudi Arabia is vivid and maddening. It’s a barbaric society.

Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman was thought to be a reformer who would change all of that. After all, he will let women drive! And Foreign Policy Expert Jared Kushner is reportedly quite taken with him. (And Crown Prince Mohammed is reported taken with the notion that Kushner is “in his pocket.“) But Crown Prince Mohammed has also notably arrested journalists, activists, and dissidents in typical authoritarian style. (Hey, you have to be tough!) And let’s not get carried away with the notion of what a “reformer” he is. He has done nothing to eliminate that aspect of society described in “Infidel” wherein women are under the guardianship of men and cannot do anything meaningful without their permission. Honor killings and stonings continue unabated. Saudi society is still medieval Islamism through and through.

The reported murder and dismemberment of Khashoggi is a reminder of the barbarism of our good friends the Saudis. Let’s try not to forget it.

[Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.]

153 Responses to “Turkish Government: Saudi Government Killed and Dismembered Dissident in Their Consulate”

  1. Erdpgan is an even more militant Islamist, he had protesters,beat up in dc some months back. He organized the Hamas flotilla against Israel

    Narciso (d1f714)

  2. That’s an extraordinary reckless charge don’t you think, I don’t rule out there could be a Becket order, but I’d like more proof,

    Salman supports regimes like hafter and al sis I whole erdogan and the emir supported morsi and the Libyan aq chieftain

    Narciso (d1f714)

  3. And I’ll bet they put rapists on their Supreme Court … hey, just like Trump!!!

    Munroe (bb8947)

  4. The official described a quick and complex operation in which Mr. Khashoggi was killed within two hours of his arrival at the consulate by a team of Saudi agents, who dismembered his body with a bone saw they brought for the purpose.

    That’s just mean.

    Dave (9664fc)

  5. 4… and very professional…

    Colonel Haiku (1fcc64)

  6. Nk would note the lambrakis incident as told in z.

    Narciso (d1f714)

  7. I’m looking at my new DeWalt battery powered saw and have just realized I only have blades for wood and metal.

    Note to self…

    Colonel Haiku (1fcc64)

  8. Like I say I don’t particular believe any of the parties involved general intelligence is perfectly capable then but the Turks don’t have clean hands wither

    Narciso (d1f714)

  9. number one you can’t trust Turkey cause they’re sleazy and weird and genocidal

    number two this isn’t even a tiny little drop in the ocean of saudi barbarism and obscene cultural rot

    one good example of more bigger stuff to get excited about is how the saudis are slaughtering children in yemen with the help of the sleazy child-butchering mattis military

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  10. There are other examples letelier and moffitt with the Pinochet regime, I don’t see the urgency now though.

    Narciso (d1f714)

  11. I believe this. This is a humiliation for the Turks, and they would not be putting it out there if their pride had not been genuinely stung by the violation of diplomatic norms in their country.

    nk (dbc370)

  12. Keep it in the sand, you duners.

    mg (f0a1d2)

  13. Throw a dart at the Middle East and you’ll likely hit on a society that has some very barbaric remnants within the culture. (which came in handy when we renditioned people for interrogation in Jordan.)
    The Saudis have always been this way, and the USA has struggled with the alliance ever since the OPEC mess and long gas lines back in the Carter era 1979 and then with GHW Bush picking the Saudis as a US proxy vs Iran

    steveg (a9dcab)

  14. He’s also going after sheikh auda who led the rising against coalition forces.

    Does erdogan have motive to tell this story, with his economy crashing like a used edsel.

    Narciso (d1f714)

  15. Countries don’t have friends, they have interests.

    Our POTUS thinks, though, that his personal relationship with foreign leaders will be enough to cause those countries to stop pursuing their interests and instead to do what he, the POTUS, wants. He talks on TV about how Kim Jong-un of North Korea, to take a conspicuous example, “loves” him. He thinks it will be for love of him that Kim gives up his countries nuclear weapons.

    I know there are people who comment on this blog who love the POTUS and believe him when he says that Kim loves the POTUS too. But countries don’t have lovers, either: They have interests.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  16. And turkey doesn’t that why fitz left armitage off the hook.

    Narciso (d1f714)

  17. Ms. Ali is a heroine and Mr. Khashoggi was a hero. Good God, dismembered.

    Paul Montagu (28f6c3)

  18. Given what Trump said at the UN…

    We reject the ideology of globalism, and we embrace the doctrine of patriotism.
    Around the world, responsible nations must defend against threats to sovereignty not just from global governance, but also from other, new forms of coercion and domination.

    …I’m expecting pretty of a non-response from this administration, even after KSA agents committed this assassination on Turkish soil.

    Paul Montagu (28f6c3)

  19. Time for Americans to get out of these moo slum countries. Get our people back on U.S.ground and ignore these savage bastiges. Build the wall and keep them all out. Shoot them when they enter illegally.

    mg (9e54f8)

  20. Who wins if Salman falls, the allies of those who beheaded van Gogh who forced hirsi Ali out of holland.

    Narciso (d1f714)

  21. The murder and dismemberment of a citizen inside an embassy is incredibly barbaric. It’s actually one of those acts that takes the breath away.

    But we’ll keep doing business with the Saudis, and certainly support them in the underground proxy war they are having with Iran. As Beldar notes — countries don’t have friends, they have interests. And their willingness to oppose Iran is in our interest — at least as long as Iran threatens Israel. Now, if Iran ever switches sides in that…who knows?

    Appalled (96665e)

  22. @19 mg Build the wall and keep them all out. Shoot them when they enter illegally. [emph. added]

    lol. Luckily I have my irony detectors amped up to 11 this morning, otherwise I might not have caught the wry wisdom. Kudos.

    Q! (86710c)

  23. Ha Ha Ha.
    Ha. Ha.
    You said “… violation of diplomatic norms in their country.” when talking about Mohammedan on Mohammedan barbarity.

    Are you always this funny this early in the day? Muslims are barbaric, and I’m surprised they didn’t just bring a meat grinder, a la Gosnell, and dispose of the body that way. Probably took the pieces back to Saudi Arabia, where they could find some dogs to feed his remains to, further desecration.

    Milwaukee (0c9c6f)

  24. “Our POTUS thinks, though, that his personal relationship with foreign leaders will be enough to cause those countries to stop pursuing their interests and instead to do what he, the POTUS, wants.”

    It’s nice to have nevertrumpers around to tell us what Trump thinks.

    Lucky for us he has Mattis, Pompeeo, and Bolton around, though they seem odd choices considering your internet psychiatry.

    Trump uses a carrot and a stick. Wisdom.

    lee (6c3294)

  25. Q-
    I am dead serious as friends of mine have been decapitared by these miserable mooslums. Round zen up and execute.

    mg (f0a1d2)

  26. Booosh did nothing when Daniel Pearl was executed. He had to blow the king.

    mg (f0a1d2)

  27. The US should be working thru diplomatic channels to see if what it appears happened can be determined and to impress upon the Saudis in no uncertain terms that we find this behavior wholly unacceptable and contrary to civilized norms.

    The Turkish government has no credibility in this area.

    Colonel Haiku (1fcc64)

  28. Air bases, naval ports, weapons sales, pipeline hubs, tanker traffic and petrodollars. Oil makes the world go ’round.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  29. I thought solar and windmills were the answer.

    mg (9e54f8)

  30. Can someone tell me what great accomplishment Africa has made in making the world a better place?

    mg (9e54f8)

  31. @29. Petrochemicals.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  32. OT, and definitely not something to divert the thread, but: I’m now reading Ken Starr’s book, “Contempt,” which was released the same day as Woodward’s.

    It turns out that Judge Starr — who was for a time Brett Kavanaugh’s employer in the Office of Special Counsel — admits to perpetrating a brutal sexual assault when he was of college age:

    But first I had to make a detour to Harvard for a 1968 summer program to fulfill a language requirement for my degree at GWU, and that detour was also providential. It was there that I met Alice Jean Mendell. I sat behind her in Intermediate Spanish and “pulled her pigtails.”

    Judge Starr then admits to successfully perpetrating a cover-up of this crime, by marrying her; nor is it remotely relevant that they’ve been married since August 1970, the week before he started law school, but instead, the nearly five-decade length of this cover-up merely reaffirms how diabolical Judge Starr really is.

    There’s nothing in the Constitution’s provisions regarding impeachment by the House of federal officials which requires that the target of those proceedings still be in office. I think that if they take the House, the Dems are surely are going to start with impeaching Ken Starr, which will then be their path to get to Judge Kavanaugh, who, after all, willingly worked for several years for an admitted pigtail puller.

    In the meantime, I urge you to begin searching your own repressed memories. Maybe you’ve never been in the same place with Ken Starr at the same time, but that could be the trauma talking. Begin by thinking of all the pigtails you’ve ever seen (it’s up to you whether you wish to be a speciesist by excluding the porcine, literal version). And then work backwards, asking yourself: “Isn’t is at least possible that pigtail was pulled? And who else would likely be pulling it, than a member of the dominant white male patriarchy?

    At that point, the burden will shift to Judge Starr to prove that he didn’t pull that pigtail, because every pigtail pulling witness is entitled to his or her truth.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  33. I hope he was murdered and then dismembered and not the other way around.

    DRJ (15874d)

  34. I love how Salman’s not a reformer since he hasn’t completely flipped Saudi society and turned the country into some western style utopia.

    Too bad we don’t have a Clinton in the house. Some cruise missiles or airstrikes would really teach these Saudis a lesson and we might be able to take out Salman and put in someone who really hates the US.

    frosty48 (6226c1)

  35. Nobody’s done a good explanation about why this is something that should be on the radar this week.

    It feels kinda ginned-up.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  36. State Dept., announced $1 billion U.S. arms sales to Saudis last March.

    Jobs. Making America great again.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  37. #35

    I dunno. Seems like using an embassy as a convenient place to execute and mutilate an opponent is a touch newsworthy.

    Appalled (96665e)

  38. 33… that was brutal after #32… after reading that, I was thinking now they’ve taken this #metoo well off teh rails…

    Colonel Haiku (1fcc64)

  39. @36. Hopefully whatever we sold them comes with long tail support contracts and doesn’t have any of the electronics with the chinese spy chips.

    frosty48 (6226c1)

  40. I’m a bit jaded when it comes to barbaric behavior from fundamentalist muslims.

    Maybe Sen. Hirono can send some of her thugs over to Saudi to learn how to deal with everyone who opposes her party agenda. The opposition are all white racists and as such deserve no quarter… or maybe they do deserve to be cut into quarters but maybe that’s just a blip in the translation

    steveg (a9dcab)

  41. 39. That’s usually the hook. Better they fly Boeings than Mirages… or MIGs.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  42. Well juhayman was a national guardsmen, there was at least one firmer Saudi army enlisted who was aq

    Narciso (d1f714)

  43. Mcsally who flew fighters in the gulf is ahead of Lynn Stewart fan girl synema,

    Narciso (d1f714)

  44. Erdigan staged a coup last year, and blamed an American missionary.

    Narciso (d1f714)

  45. More concerned about British Spy using Putin propaganda to try an incarcerate and man and undo an election.

    Even double so that Fusion GPS plus Perkins Coie are criminally involved and we are worried about this.

    But that is just me.

    Bob the Builder (9af831)

  46. mcsally’s already a huge squishy cowardly disappointment

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  47. You get what you can pikachu, she’s up a commie terrorist fangirl in synema.

    narciso (d1f714)

  48. @33. The Saudi playbook seems more Sopranos than Putin, DRJ.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  49. They usually hack your head clean, Uzbek’s cook you like a lobster, Egyptians hang you like a old suit, on a hook
    6iffhttps://mobile.twitter.com/sfrantzman/status/1050012959559340032?p=v

    narciso (d1f714)

  50. Our POTUS thinks, though, that his personal relationship with foreign leaders will be enough to cause those countries to stop pursuing their interests and instead to do what he, the POTUS, wants. He talks on TV about how Kim Jong-un of North Korea, to take a conspicuous example, “loves” him. He thinks it will be for love of him that Kim gives up his countries nuclear weapons.

    I don’t doubt that for one second, Beldar, but in fairness I would point out that all of our Presidents seem to have the childish notion that their personal charm will lead to foreign policy gains. Obama thought that being a minority who spent time as a child in a Muslim would make the U.S. beloved in the Middle East; GW Bush thought that not being duplicitous and wishy-washy like his predecessor would strengthen our standing there; Clinton thought that not having the baggage of the Cold War and going on a charm offensive would endear him to every potentate; GHW Bush thought that his vast foreign policy experience would lead world leaders to trust him and, by extension, America; Reagan thought that not being Jimmy Carter would give him credibility; and on and on it goes.

    As you point out, nations don’t have friends, they have interests. And whether it’s North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Russia, China, or even Belgium, our Presidents need to be smart enough to know that whatever personal qualities they think they might have only go so far.

    JVW (42615e)

  51. 39, that sounds like the Robocop ED 209 business plan.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  52. 47, except for the Satriales, unless they switched to “long” Pig.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  53. I love how Salman’s not a reformer since he hasn’t completely flipped Saudi society and turned the country into some western style utopia

    If that is directed at me, then it is not an honest summary of the argument of the post. He’s not a reformer because, for one thing, he has jailed many opponents of the regime for opposing the regime. That goes beyond a mere failure to reform an entire society.

    Patterico (7028bb)

  54. Nobody’s done a good explanation about why this is something that should be on the radar this week.

    It feels kinda ginned-up.

    Because of the findings announced by officials from the Turkish government and because of the obvious newsworthiness of a regime murdering a dissident and journalist inside its consulate.

    But then, you knew all that.

    Patterico (7028bb)

  55. “He thinks it will be for love of him that Kim gives up his countries nuclear weapons.

    Almost as fantastical and childish as giving nukes to the NK’s (or Iran) and thinking they won’t ever be weaponized.

    harkin (adce92)

  56. Except the erdogan is equally dubious on a whole host of fronts

    Narciso (48de1c)

  57. Why would Khashoggi enter the Saudi Consulate after writing things like that? He had to get a document so that he could be married.

    He said there were ordinary people in there, so they wouldn’t do anything. He didn’t think about the idea of Saudi Arabia sending a special hit team to Istanbul. The Saudi government knew for some time he was coming and it seems to be confirmed that a lot of Saudis went into the country and left. * It is not said whether or not they came with diplomatic immunity.

    Jamal Khashoggi did take the precaution of leaving his cell phone outside with his fiance, but taht was maybe just in case it got confiscated.

    ————–

    * 15 people!? They really wanted to be sure they didn’t fail. It also seems like MbS, or the chief planner, took precautions against the hit team lying to superiors and saying they killed him when they didn’t.

    And for all that the whole operation shows signs of amateurishness

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  58. The Saudis forgot that, in this day and age, when there is so much worry about terrorism, there’d be 24 hour surveillance footage of the outside of the consulate. So it’s connected to them anyway.

    Everyone knows he went in there and Saudi officials have not denied it. They cannot say how or when he left. And if Turkish government searches the consulate and he’s not there, that is almost conclusive in another way that he was killed.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  59. Even without that video, I’d assume he was killed and not spirited away, because it is easier to spirit body parts out of the country than a whole human being.

    People, may come up with all kinds of speculative reasons as to why, but it was likely it boils down to that MbS thought Jamal Khashoggihe wuld damage relations between Saudi Arabia and the United States. Even if Trump would not pay much attention to him, still he was writing for a leadinbg opposition newspaper.

    And he might oppose them not just for human rights violations, but say that Saudi officials were lying to U.S. government officials – and to Israel too maybe.

    Even if didn’t know anything now about that, he might learn later.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  60. NYT:

    Another person briefed on the matter, speaking on condition of anonymity to disclose confidential details, told The Times on Saturday that Turkish intelligence had obtained a video of the killing, made by the Saudis to prove that it had occurred.

    The video of the killing, as it is stated there in the article, would have been made to prove to the people in Saudi Arabia who planned the killing that it had actually taken place. And maybe sent even before anyone left the country.

    This would NOT be video taken by Turkish police or intelligence.

    This would be video taken by the killers, a copy of which either was turned over to Turkey by some friendly to Turkey Saudi officials, or was captured electronically when transmitted (they might have easily sent it electronically rather than waiting to carry it to Saudi Arabia by hand) or possibly obtained through hacking some computer.

    It undoubtedly got to the Turkish government in the form of a computer file.

    The U.S. government probably has it, but the CIA might be going through a laborious process of trying to prove to itself that the man being killed is Jamal Khashoggi, and also trying to determine if there is corroborating evidence of the time the video was shot. (there are always time stamps on files, and there might be no reason to falsify them if the video is what it purports to be, and it would take much much thought to insert indications that were not true.)

    It still will be awhile till the U.S. government will be slow to acknowledge even to itself that that’s what happened, and a bit longer till the CIA tells the president, and some members of Congress that, yes, Jamal Khashoggi was definitely killed.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  61. yes but this still feels very very contrived Mr. Patterico

    there’s a lot more pressing things to worry about than some luckless journalist having a bad week

    right now the important thing to do is to cooperate with saudi arabia on areas of mutual interest (yemen isn’t one of these areas) and to finish this year on a positive note

    meanwhile Turkey’s a scummy gangster trash-country that’s literally holding Americans hostage

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  62. :(

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  63. happyfeet @60. Oh please.

    If you want another subject, more to your liking, there’s the limosine crash in New York State.

    The company is owned by a Pakistani crook who got off by involving the FBI is at least two famous fake terrorism cases which the FBI portrayed as real threats that had been stopped, and that’s waht I thought then.

    https://heavy.com/news/2018/10/shahed-hussain/

    https://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/06/nyregion/2-albany-men-are-arrested-in-plot-to-import-a-missile-and-kill-a-diplomat.html

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Bronx_terrorism_plot

    The men argued, to no avail, that this was a case of entrapment by the FBI.

    The FBI’s use of two informants, and offers of money and food incentives to the four men in the case has led to accusations that the FBI engaged in entrapment.[

    I was always convinced that they were entrapped. They were bad people, but had no interest in terrorism.

    He got paid a lot too, by the FBI.

    It seems like his association with the FBI ended some time ago, and he’s been maybe in other trouble, but that money enabled him to start or buy a cottage and that limosine company.

    They stretch limo did not have government approval; the car failed some inspections, including something with the brakes; it made a lot of noise; a vehicle is hard to stop when carrying so much weight; the driver did not have p on his commercial license – without it he cannot carry more than 15 passengers; the driver did not attempt to brake anyway; ans by the way, the limo was substituted at the last minute for a bus owned by another company that had broken down.

    Maybe a better driver would not have used that car. Maybe abetter driver ewould have noticed the STOP sign, and traveled slow enough to act on it. I alkso think maybe the company was headed for bankruptcy.

    And yet I think the most important people at fault are the people who run the GPS systems.
    (The driver was obviously unfamilar with the road)

    There have been other accidents or scary incidents. Triucks barreel through at high speed.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  64. #33 DRJ
    I share your wish for the guy to have been killed first and then dismembered, but I’m pretty sure that’s not how the Saud family does these types of intramural disputes.

    I’ll bet $100 I could go out to UCSB and ask if Trump is worse than the people who ordered this atrocity and am confident the kids will overwhelmingly tell me Trump is worse

    steveg (a9dcab)

  65. 27. Colonel Haiku (1fcc64) — 10/10/2018 @ 9:50 am

    The US should be working thru diplomatic channels to see if what it appears happened can be determined and to impress upon the Saudis in no uncertain terms that we find this behavior wholly unacceptable and contrary to civilized norms.

    And then what?

    Because Saudi Arabia is almost certainly not going to be able to produce Jamal Khashoggi alive.

    And I don’t think he was killed by the Turkish government.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  66. 20. Narciso (d1f714) — 10/10/2018 @ 9:22 am

    Who wins if Salman falls, the allies of those who beheaded van Gogh who forced hirsi Ali out of holland.

    Keep Salman as king; get anotehr Crown Prince. You can’t have an supposed ally acting like that.

    Goven achoice between utter falling, and another Crown Prince/monarch – they would choose another monarch.

    And he was probably killed because of the possible effects of his writing on the United States.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  67. #33 63,

    Oh they killed im first. Do yoiu think they wanted blood. The van left 2 hous later. No time for torture.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  68. the limo crash was interesting it made me think of that quentin tarantino movie with the texas chili parlor in it

    but overall i think it’s normal and natural for people to tighten up their filters when so much of the news is the ginned-up CNN Jake Tapper fake kind

    it was a long long time ago now that the media what’s suddenly all verklempt about dead journalists in turkey forfeited the respect and credibility that they would need to have to legitimately flag and foreground some rando possibly dead turkey reporter as something of import

    and c’mon

    for the most part we have people in place whose job it is to deal with these happenings and occurrences, and to the extent we don’t have those people in place it’s probably cause some deranged dirty metoo lied and said they raped her 62 years ago during an fbi friend’s birthday party at the roller boogie palace

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  69. @60/61. It’s bad form, Mr. Feet; diplomatic protocol and all that; one visits a mother-in-law to be cut down to size, not a consulate or embassy.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  70. repeating that earlier link:

    https://twitter.com/sfrantzman/status/1050012959559340032

    narciso (d1f714)

  71. i suppose you’re right as far as it goes Mr. DCSCA

    but it really does seem for all the world like all of this happened terribly far away and that most of the people involved are either saudi or turkish

    it needs a hook

    and i know that’s why they trotted out the old “bone saw”

    but I’m not sure the old “bone saw” really does the trick here you know why

    i tell you why

    cause we already did dead foreigners this year in London with the poisonous what-have-you and everyone got excited and blamed Putin but at the end of the day even that was a snore

    and that one had mystery and atmospherics and exotic poisons and danger and international intrigue and even a cameo by Mr. Putin

    but it never really found an audience

    so now we have “bone saw” and it mostly just feels like one of those direct-to-video copycat movies

    plus the ever-weird and weirdly trivial Bob Corker seized on it cause who the eff knows why

    odd.

    it’s all just so odd how all of a sudden this is supposed to be this huge thing

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  72. salisbury i should say

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  73. Conversely, GPS by way of not being up to date on construction closures has led to things like this: http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/lake/police-gps-may-have-told-couple-to-drive-off-cline/article_cbd32cd1-bb19-5adb-83a9-ee1e09bd4592.html

    urbanleftbehind (469781)

  74. I’ve seen gaps lead me in circles, but that’s rather extreme.

    narciso (d1f714)

  75. The gifted continues to dissapoint.

    narciso (d1f714)

  76. “He’s not a reformer because, for one thing, he has jailed many opponents of the regime for opposing the regime. That goes beyond a mere failure to reform an entire society.”

    “We live in a society” but not always the same people in the same society.

    This, the Pakistani snitch bus exploded in Peru, and the head of Interpol getting ganked in China all seem to indicate various state intel agencies cutting off loose ends and leftover sources and methods from the GWOT days.

    Our Good Guy Dissident Activist Playboy Philanthropist Journalist Western Friend is also said to have interviewed Osama bin Laden repeatedly pre-9/11 so I’d rather not slap the all friendly labels on him and call it square just yet, what journalists do to gain access to terrorists in such countries is rarely innocuous and royal intrigues among Saudi princes rarely have good guys on either side.

    Pencil-Necked Pundit (7763bc)

  77. i should watch that tonight

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  78. Well the kingdom being an absolute monarchy, any political activism is effectively. Verboten inside the kingdom by Robert lacey, makes this clear.

    https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2018/10/democrats-the-constitution-is-unconstitutional.php

    narciso (d1f714)

  79. “He thinks it will be for love of him that Kim gives up his countries nuclear weapons.“

    Sugar-daddies (that would be Trump) like to nurture the illusion that their doxies (that would be Kim Jong Un) love them for themselves and not because of the gifts they bestow on them.

    nk (dbc370)

  80. We haven’t given him anything that was the crew that included our wannabe Congress fritter Nancy soderberg.

    Narciso (d1f714)

  81. Istanbul (Not Constantinople) TMBG

    Istanbul was Constantinople
    Now it’s Istanbul, not Constantinople
    Been a long time gone, Oh Constantinople
    Now yer 15 carry-ons on a flight

    Every guy in Constantinople
    Lives in Istanbul, not Constantinople
    So if you’ve a date in Constantinople
    You’ll be filleted in Istanbul

    Even old New York was once New Amsterdam
    Why they changed it I can’t say
    People just liked it better that way
    So, don’t take me back to Constantinople
    No, I can’t go back to Constantinople
    Been a long time gone, Oh Constantinople
    Haiku Hoagie with the works
    To be eaten by the Turks

    Colonel Haiku (1fcc64)

  82. @52. It’s not a fair summary. I’ll try again. SA has been in a low level civil war for a while now. The terms “many opponents of the regime” and “opposing the regime” cover a spectrum of people and actions. That spectrum includes people who would be considered traitors even in a liberal democracy, in some cases journalists, activists, and dissidents. This has always been a word game depending on which side you back. You’ve got serious people in exile calling for a coup and serious people within the country responding to that call. Between the conflict with Iran and the internal struggles reforming Islam is probably not a top priority for him. These are problems with the larger Islamic culture and are not something that can reasonably be changed in a year or so by the crown prince.

    Allowing women to drive seems like a laughable reform. The fundamentalist within Islam, and specifically Saudi Arabia, probably don’t consider this laughable. In this case I think everyone knows reformer means not as bad as the guys we aren’t calling reformers.

    frosty48 (6226c1)

  83. Well, they certainly re-formed Khashoggi.

    nk (dbc370)

  84. they’re digging a big ditch around qatar and when it’s done they’re gonna say hahaha enjoy your stupid island

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  85. yikes, there is a grisly current running through this comment section

    frosty48 (6226c1)

  86. Sammy
    You can fit a normal size body into a 55 gallon drum without cutting the body up… I mean or so I’ve heard.

    Just kill him and stick him in 55 gallon drum and ship him back to Saudi Arabia.
    No need to cut him up.

    Or you could cover a room in plastic, strap his feet into buckets, tape his ankles to keep meat from flying and cut them off with a skilsaw. Repeat with hands and arms.

    It wouldn’t take two hours to cut him up and stick him in diplomatic satchels, more like 30 minutes plus a couple hours of cleanup and carrying everything to the burn room

    steveg (a9dcab)

  87. carrying everything to the burn room

    But questions would be asked, e.g. “Why are the Saudis roasting pig?”

    Kevin M (d6cbf1)

  88. More proof the Middle East is a barbaric cesspool, not worth the sweat of one US grunt.

    Bugg (8aed21)

  89. @ JVW (#49): Thanks for the thoughtful response, including this part:

    [I]n fairness I would point out that all of our Presidents seem to have the childish notion that their personal charm will lead to foreign policy gains. Obama thought that being a minority who spent time as a child in a Muslim would make the U.S. beloved in the Middle East; GW Bush thought that not being duplicitous and wishy-washy like his predecessor would strengthen our standing there; Clinton thought that not having the baggage of the Cold War and going on a charm offensive would endear him to every potentate; GHW Bush thought that his vast foreign policy experience would lead world leaders to trust him and, by extension, America; Reagan thought that not being Jimmy Carter would give him credibility; and on and on it goes.

    I don’t think Obama, Clinton, or Carter were comparable to the GOP presidents on your list. Each of them could point to conspicuous examples of leading allies, often reluctant ones, into coalitions of the willing, based upon mutual interests, not personal trust or loyalty or anything remotely like that. It was ultimately in the mutual interest of the United States and its NATO allies to deploy the Pershing II over the near hysterical opposition of the Soviets and the left worldwide. That Reagan was charming wasn’t what ultimately brought them on board. His successor, GHW Bush, was on a warm first-name basis with virtually every world leader. But he was able to assemble a coalition to retake Kuwait from the Iraqis that included even Syria and Egypt, who weren’t there because they admired Poppy’s Skull-and-Bones pin.

    We can extend the comparison much farther back: Nixon went to China for champaign with Mao, but no one ever mistook Dick Nixon for a charmer. Eisenhower basically ended the Suez Crisis with a press conference and some dirty looks at the directions of our French and British allies, resulting in the fall of the Atlee government; but that wasn’t personality (and Ike certainly had tons of credibility), but rather the fact that our allies lost their gamble that Ike would throw in with them, and America’s interests in the Middle East had outstripped their own to the point that proceeding without our support was simply impossible. Compare them to, say, FDR, who thought his personal relationship with Uncle Joe justified going around Churchill’s back and lulled him into utter complacency about the Soviet intelligence and espionage taking place under his nose. Or JFK, who though that as a young Harvard man with vigor, he’d talk sense into Khrushchev in Vienna; what happened instead was Khrushchev correctly sized up JFK as a lightweight and a pushover, leading in swift succession to the Berlin Wall and the Soviet missiles adventure in Cuba that brought us closer than ever before or since to a nuclear apocalypse.

    What I see now is Trump — unsurprisingly, since he’s a New York Democrat at heart — buying into this same Democratic folly, the ridiculous notion that since they can con American voters, they can con the commissars or the mullahs or the kleptocrats.

    What’s definitely working for Trump, though, is that he is still conning his cult members, who were completely unruffled when he tweeted that “There is no longer a Nuclear Threat from North Korea.”

    Every part of this scares the hell out of me.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  90. Errata: Anthony Eden government. I meant to look that up before hitting “Submit Comment,” sorry.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  91. Which is,fine and good on their own, but the wahhabis who seem to have found sponsorship with Qatar have a sizable network in the states and in Europe, khashoggi seemed terminally naive about the short and long term goals of the brotherhood.

    Narciso (d1f714)

  92. He’s not a reformer because, for one thing, he has jailed many opponents of the regime for opposing the regime. That goes beyond a mere failure to reform an entire society.

    The two are unconnected. One can be a reformer and not be a (small-d) democrat.

    When Nasser deposed King Farouk, he jailed (or shot) a lot of people. But he also reformed a feudal system to one more responsible to the people, as Nasser saw it. His stated coal was a parliamentary democracy, but that was not to be. That this change happened in a non-Western culture lead to non-Western results. But it was still reform.

    I cannot imagine that in a culture such as the House of Saud, that any significant change can happen without making a few omelets. Even in our “last best hope of Man on Earth”, really ugly things happen, too.

    Kevin M (d6cbf1)

  93. * coal goal

    Kevin M (d6cbf1)

  94. In retrospect Suez was a smart move in the short term because removing Nasser had that been possible would have empowered the ilkwan 55 years earlier, Nasser decided it was smarter to side with the Soviets though.

    Narciso (d1f714)

  95. Now miles Copeland the musician turned spy and his former advertising exec eigleberger came up with the notion of the mukharabat, which were trained with certain German expats

    Narciso (d1f714)

  96. I’ll avoid the obligatory Police music video and just comment what a complex fascinating American.

    urbanleftbehind (469781)

  97. “What’s definitely working for Trump, though, is that he is still conning his cult members”

    I guess that South Korea must be a part of that cult, to be fair their last leader was kind of a spirit cooking Hillary type so I guess it’s just the Moonie influence.

    Pencil-necked Pundit (1b58ab)

  98. The ones from PA with the machine gun wedding ceremony?

    urbanleftbehind (469781)

  99. Do you guys know just how “royal” these jumped-up camel thieves are? They’re not Romanovs or Hapsburgs or even Windsors. They were just that, camel thieves that the British put in power after WWI. That’s only fifteen years more than the Daley Machine in Chicago after the death of Cermak.

    Their most feared enemies have been the Nassers, the Sadats, the Saddams and the Assads — the Ba’ath Party for short — who want to bring the Arab world into the West, away from the sultans and the sheiks and the mullahs, and away from ignorance, superstition, and generational edge-of-starvation poverty.

    This guy a reformer? Uh-uh. Not any more than Edward Longshanks (as played by Patrick McGoohan in Braveheart.) What he wants is to keep his family in power and wealth for at least one more generation, and he can only do that by keeping his people oppressed, ignorant, superstitious and poor.

    nk (dbc370)

  100. OT, but it’s the 100th comment.

    I got a yen to learn a band instrument. Either the oboe or the clarinet. I’m 62. I have never played a keyed wind instrument before. I have no musical talent. I will not practice. I will pay for lessons but they will be wasted, because I will not practice. I know tons of songs that can be transposed to clarinet but only one, Besame Mucho, that can be transposed to oboe. A playable clarinet seems to be one-fifth the price of a playable oboe. Either will have to be new, because I’m not going to touch a used one. Did I mention that I’m 62?

    So, my question is, should I get the rosewood oboe with gold-plated keys or the ebony oboe with silver-plated keys?

    nk (dbc370)

  101. I’m sure he was harmless:
    https://dailycaller.com/2018/10/10/man-bomb-arrested-dc/

    I didn’t trust papa Salman because inn the

    Narciso (d1f714)

  102. 90s he had all sorts of projects in Bosnia and Afghanistan the kind that attracted a certain sort of folk

    Narciso (d1f714)

  103. They never heard of schrodingers cat:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/shashj/status/1050149623799656449

    Narciso (d1f714)

  104. Good stuff, nk. A big drum would be easier on your lungs.

    mg (9e54f8)

  105. @100. nk- Go with either oboe. Funniest thing my late father ever said was when we were trying to pick a name for a sailboat and out of the blue he quipped: ‘Why don’t you name it Oboe.” Asked why and w/o missing a beat, he replied: ‘Because it’s a wind instrument and you can play on it.”

    Never laughed so much in my life.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  106. Thank you, guys. In return for your advice, here is a Greek instrumental played on
    bouzouki
    and
    clarinet

    nk (dbc370)

  107. First time listener of a Greek Insrumental..

    mg (9e54f8)

  108. so one of obama’s suck-lackeys is “suspending involvement” with these nefarious saudis?

    Ernest Moniz, former energy secretary for President Barack Obama, is suspending his involvement advising Saudi Arabia on a proposed city mega-project until more information is made available regarding the disappearance – and possible assassination – of Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi.

    okey dokey what was his involvement?

    “In particular, I have been asked to offer guidance on achieving zero net greenhouse gas emissions. Success with this vision will have global implications for a low-carbon future,” Moniz said.

    so… virtue signaling about some insta-famous rando wapo journalist nobody could have named a week ago trumps … fighting them nasty global warm-warms?

    these people are so silly

    everything they do is hoax

    this stinks like cia fbi hoax

    it’s a very familiar aroma

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  109. so one of obama’s suck-lackeys is “suspending involvement” with these nefarious saudis?

    Ernest Moniz, former energy secretary for President Barack Obama, is suspending his involvement advising Saudi Arabia on a proposed city mega-project until more information is made available regarding the disappearance – and possible assassination – of Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi.

    okey dokey what was his involvement?

    “In particular, I have been asked to offer guidance on achieving zero net greenhouse gas emissions. Success with this vision will have global implications for a low-carbon future,” Moniz said.

    so… virtue signaling about some insta-famous rando wapo journalist nobody could have named a week ago trumps … fighting them uggy global warm-warms?

    these people are so silly

    everything they do is hoax

    this stinks like cia fbi hoax

    it’s a very familiar aroma

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  110. But the sepah (Iranian revolutionary guards) his all peachy keen on, there’s on interesting flute like instrument a naval (which I heard of in a book.

    narciso (d1f714)

  111. @99. The ba’ath party is arab fascism. It might not have as much theocracy as islamic aristocracy but it’s just replacing one boot for another. It’s also unstable and unable to align itself with US interests.

    frosty48 (6226c1)

  112. They write Arab fascists, like the golden square which the UK fought (there’s a reference to rashid Ali, in key to rebecca, sadat is even a character)

    narciso (d1f714)

  113. Hajj amin husseini, arafats uncle, was Hitler and mussolinis bff, the Turks were mostly neutral back then,

    narciso (d1f714)

  114. Many excuses like alaswani makes for the neutrality of the Arabs (in his case Egyptians)

    https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2018/10/a-conspiracy-so-vast.php

    narciso (d1f714)

  115. Baby steps, frosty, baby steps. And it was anything but unstable. It was destabilized. By the monarchists, by the mullahs, by Israel, and by us. Mostly by us. In Egypt, Iraq, Egypt again (yes, twice), Libya, and now Syria.

    nk (dbc370)

  116. weirdo creepy closet case general mattis likes to watch his prancey dancey chubby wubby gender-ambiguous tatters sachet around syria to no particular strategic purpose

    to each their own i suppose

    but his parents must be at least a little bit disappointed in him

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  117. oopers *sashay* i mean

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  118. Yes Copeland had his bright ideas allegedly he was the one who took a meeting with this ambitious chap Saddam having learned nothing from his experience with nasser.

    Narciso (d1f714)

  119. Matt is could kill you with a spork, pikachu, when junior Assad does operation it ends up being very messy, but then so would his removal.

    Narciso (d1f714)

  120. 116, u might be right…I get a John Mahoney (Frasier’s dad) vibe from that guy sometimes.

    urbanleftbehind (469781)

  121. let’s all bow down like protrate weirdos and pray to alalala that the Iranians stay in Syria forever

    Pompeo: No U.S. Aid to Reconstruct Syria While Iranian Forces Present

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  122. ugh *prostrate*

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  123. It is like ‘Pulp Fiction,’” the official said.

    This isn’t over. Strange.

    American movie references in Turkey? Very strange world.

    And yes, Infidel is a great book, one of my favorites.

    Patricia (3363ec)

  124. Yes and she was chased out of Holland by some of those who looked the other way

    https://sethfrantzman.com/2018/10/10/before-the-disappearance-khashoggis-own-words-the-arab-spring-the-brotherhood/

    Narciso (d1f714)

  125. I get a vibe that if Trump were to show up alone at DNC Jag-Off Central, he’d be chopped up pretty damned skippy…

    Colonel Haiku (1fcc64)

  126. “In truth, Khashoggi never had much time for western-style pluralistic democracy. In the 1970s he joined the Muslim Brotherhood, which exists to rid the Islamic world of western influence. He was a political Islamist until the end, recently praising the Muslim Brotherhood in the Washington Post. He championed the ‘moderate’ Islamist opposition in Syria, whose crimes against humanity are a matter of record. Khashoggi frequently sugarcoated his Islamist beliefs with constant references to freedom and democracy. But he never hid that he was in favour of a Muslim Brotherhood arc throughout the Middle East. His recurring plea to bin Salman in his columns was to embrace not western-style democracy, but the rise of political Islam which the Arab Spring had inadvertently given rise to. For Khashoggi, secularism was the enemy.”

    https://spectator.us/2018/10/jamal-khashoggi/

    Colonel Haiku (1fcc64)

  127. 100. nk (dbc370) — 10/10/2018 @ 9:17 pm

    Do you guys know just how “royal” these jumped-up camel thieves are? They’re not Romanovs or Hapsburgs or even Windsors. They were just that, camel thieves that the British put in power after WWI. That’s only fifteen years more than the Daley Machine in Chicago after the death of Cermak.

    They are actually a little bit earlier, (the dynasty seems to go back to the late 1700s, and they ruled over a swatch of desert in Arabia. They fought numerous wars over time.)

    They were not put in power by the British, although the British tolerated them after awhile. The royal family the British put in power was the Hahemite dynasty. The head of the family was Ḥusayn (or Hussein) ibn ʿAlī, the emir of Mecca. Those are the people Lawrence of Arabia worked with. The Sharif of Mecca had a good claim to be caliph (claimed descent from the right family)

    After World War I, Hussein became the king of the independent country of Hejaz (or Hedjaz or however you spell it) which was a founding member of the League of Nations. It consisted of the strip of territory along what is now the west coast of Saudi Arabia, including Mecca and Medina.

    And one son, Abdullah, became king of Syria and another, Feisal, King of Iraq , which were not totally independent countries. At least anyway they werem’t members of the League of Nations.

    (What was Iraq? Iraq was whatever was no longer Turkey, and was not Persia, and neitehr was it Lebanon or Syria or Palestine or Kuwait or the desert to the south. Iraq was what was left over from the Arab areas ruled by theOttoman Empire or Turrkey before Word War I, when all the other pieces were cut away)

    The French wanted Syria and anyway Abdullah lost his kingdown. So in compensation, the territory east of the Jordan was cut away from the Palestine mandate (by Winston Chrchill I think) and Abdullah became king of Transjordan.

    Meanwhile, the kingdom of Nejd conquered Hedjaz in 1925. Outright aggression. The British decided not to come to their defense. A little piece of it in the far northwest by Aqaba was salvaged and annexed to Jordan.

    When they got to Mecca and Medina, the Saudis, being iconoclasts, destroyed all the historical sites and monuments and even almost destroyed Mohammad’s grave, but that was saved on the grounds it was, after all, a human, and Moslem, grave. But they destroyed Mohammad’s house..

    In 1932 Nejd was renamed Saudi Arabia. And that’s how we got the current country. For decades it did not have solid borders with most of the countries around it. It was in the 1970s or later when that happened.

    There was some Nazi influence in Iraq in 1941 and a near coup or something but the British got rid of it, but not before a pogrom occurred in Baghdad, which teh British did not prevent. There was also Nazi influence in Persia (the king had in fact renamed his counry Iran circa 1935, because it has the same root as Aryan but the British deposed him in 1941 and put his son on the throne in his place. This shah was actually a military general who had assumed the title in 1921 or so. There waa a different Shah early in the Twentieth century, and some revolutios, and for awhile, there was an American (!) de facto ruling the country about 1911. I think a Shah was deposed about 5 times in the 20th century.)

    The old Shah was exiled to South Africa and he either died or his body was taken to Cairo where he was mummified in 1944. The new shah eventually had his father brought over and a whole monument built, which wss completely destroyed by the mullahs. Recently, due to construction, an Egyptian mummy was found in Teheran, evidently the old shah, but the mullahs got rid of it quietly.

    Back to King Abdullah I of Transjordan. In 1946 he renamed his country Jordan. He had aBritish general running his army. After 1948, he annexed the Arab parts of the Palestine mandate that did not become part of Israel. He was assassinated in 1951 while praying at a mosque in Jerusalem. His son Talal was considered crazy and his grandson Hussein became king.

    In 1958 the royal family of Iraq was killed. By tis time I think agandson of feisal was ruling. A lot of power was in the hands of the Prime Minister and hewas killed too.

    King Hussein almost right before he died changed his succesor from his brother to his son Abdullah – called Abdullah II.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  128. @ nk: My high school band had no oboe player, but our director was dead set upon playing Ralph Vaughan Williams’ English Folk Song Suite at the next years’ spring concert band competition. The second movement begins with a lovely, haunting — and extremely “exposed” — oboe solo (at 3:21 in the linked clip).

    Most small or middle-sized high school bands chose to work around the lack of a competent oboist by softly doubling the solo with a cornet or trumpet; when the trumpet, tucked further toward the back, is playing very softly, but the front-row oboe’s at mezzo-forte (medium loud), the result from the audience mostly sounds like a louder, richer-toned oboe. Since I was our band’s featured trumpet soloist anyway, I would be involved; but we still needed an oboe player.

    Double-reed instruments (which includes the bassoon family) are more finicky in general, but the particular honks and squeals you can get out of an abused oboe will stop a mule train in its tracks and maybe set it to bolting. So our band director asked the best overall musician in the band — which wasn’t me, but rather a baritone horn player who was the son of the local piano teacher, and a genuine virtuoso on the piano (which he went on to play professionally, and still does), to teach himself the oboe. He did so, over the intervening summer break, and at the competition the next spring (~1974 IIRC), our band got a top rating.

    While composing this comment, I pulled out my horn and began playing along with that youtube clip — and sure enough, I still know this solo. It’s fairly easy on the trumpet, but my impression is that nothing is ever easy on the oboe.

    So, nk: You’ve picked a worthy challenge, but a fine one for a soulful man of experience like yourself.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  129. thank you Mr. Colonel

    it’s pretty obvious from the involvement of bottom-feeding trash like Bob Corker that people are just opportunistically using this possibly-dead wapo fluffernutter to further their own agendas

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  130. Rush Limbaugh tried to summarize this today,

    https://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2018/10/11/why-what-happened-to-jamal-khashoggi-matters/

    …but he was not very solid on this. In spite of some obvious errors I did learn a fact or two, though, and I think I can tell what’s a probable fact.

    Important points:

    1) Rush kept on saying embassy or consulate. It was a consulate. Istanbul may be the biggest city but the capital is Ankara. It hasn’t been Instanbul (formerly Constantinople) since the 1920s.

    2) Rush said he needed to go into the consulate to get a marriage license. Thats’s not right. What he needed was proof of divorce. He was 59, and his Turkish fiance was 36, so it is very logical that he was married before. Polygamy may be legal in Saudi Arabia but it isn’t most other places, so he indeed needed to go in there to get married..

    3) While he left his cellphone with his fiance, he kept on his Apple Watch. Which means he could be tracked because his iPhone was coinnected to his watch. I haven’t heard that about the Apple watch anywhere else.

    4) Rush got wrong the period of time when the people were arrested and put in the Ritz Carlton. It was not this past summer, meaning this year. It was last November, although the episode wasn’t over till well into this year. Before doing this, MbS got the approval, or the non-opposition of, Jared Kushner, of course probably not telling him the truth of what he was doing, and he even leaked the claim that Kushner had discussed who were opponents of the regime and that Kushner was in his pocket.

    5) Rush did not seem to be aware that Jamal Khashoggi was now based in the United States and working for the Washington Post. He probably needed to get married to take his girlfriend into the United States.

    6) The 15 men from Saudi Arabia didn’t enter the Saudi consulate or embassy. Nine men came on one plane and entered the Saudi consulate. 6 other Saudis arrived by commercial flight. An unknown number of people came on a second plane and went into nearby hotels. They may not have been Saudis, that’s another issue. Another country or two may be involved. I would guess the group of people in the hotels were a communication team. Several of the Saudis have been identified. One is an autopsy surgeon. Another is an air force pilot.

    The Turkish workers at the consulate were given the day off, and the Turkish workers at the consul’s residence, where a van went about 2 1/2 hours after Kashoggi entered the consulate, were also suddenly given time off in the middle of the day. If all combined dispatches are right. (Q. (was going to the residence part of, or not part of, the original plan?)

    The two planes took off that day. One made a stopover in the United Arabn Emirates and one made an overnight stop in Egypt. Both planes returned to Riyadh. We know this because of flight tracker but it hasn’t been reported where the planes came from. The company that operates them is a company that was turned over to the Saudi government as a result of the Ritz Carlton imprisonments.

    There have been numerous leaks to the press by Turksih officials but no official word. The only compromise reporters can think of is that Saudi Arabia admits he’s dead (and I think would have to release the body parts for burial) and claims it is a rogue operation. I don’t think that will happen.

    The rest of what Rush said, is, I guess, close enough to the truth.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  131. if the trashy turk-a-lurks can go 100+ years denying the genocide they did on the armenians then saudi arabia can go at least that long denying they did anything on this fluffernutter

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  132. 131. Corker wants to invoke the Magnitsky Act.

    I don’t Trump is interested in covering this up.

    Why should he cover this up like Bill Clinton covered up the murder of Vincent Foster? (And Foster was killed without prior approval of the Saudi government – Clinton was protecting Prince Bandar from his own government.)

    http://i58.tinypic.com/ih8nx3.jpg shows you the smoking gun in the Vincent Foster case. (the top of page 10 of the March 14, 1994 New Republic.)

    Without knowing a lot of other facts, you would not know this is the smoking gun. This leak to Fred Barnes explained away a secret unscheduled meeting between Saudi Arabian Ambassador to the United States Prince Bandar bin Sultan and President Clinton and Sandy Burglar (Berger) that took place sometime in July, 1993. That could have taken place on July 20, 1993. The leak was made right at the time of known Foster case leaks, and Prince Bandar lived right across the street from Fort Marcy Park. And there’s more.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  133. 133. happyfeet (28a91b) — 10/11/2018 @ 12:57 pm

    if the trashy turk-a-lurks can go 100+ years denying the genocide they did on the armenians then saudi arabia can go at least that long denying they did anything on this fluffernutter

    Like Vladimir Putin does.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  134. that’s just a metaphor

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  135. the question why would the Saudi government be so careless.

    They weren’t careless.

    From one point of view they were entirely successful

    They got him or his body (more probably his body) out of the country without anybidy noticing – without raising any kind of alarm.

    What they didn’t count on was:

    1) That anybody would care. But Khashoggi was close to some people in tehe Tri=urksih goivernmnet.

    2) That he didn’t come entirely alone. He left his fiance outside. She called a Turkish official at about 7 pm about the time the first plane was leavinbg the country.

    Now Saudi men probably never take a woman to any kind of business meeting.

    3) The amount of surveillance of diplomatic compounds that now exists.

    4) That the names of foreign travelers are recorded. And airplane flights and names.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  136. Note: King Salman may be almost out of it – as has happened with several Saudi kings before.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  137. Turkish Delight Surprise Saudi Delight

    Colonel Haiku (1fcc64)

  138. lol looks like the dirty turks realized holding American hostages was maybe a little awkward at the moment

    North Carolina pastor Andrew Brunson is expected to be released in coming days after two years of detention in Turkey.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  139. Thank you for the response and the well wishes, Beldar. But I’m nothing like your friend, musically, and you’re right about the oboe. Which is why I’ll be getting a high school band quality clarinet and hoping for the best. 😉

    nk (dbc370)

  140. i got the most wonderful musical gift this year

    we have an opera lady in the building

    she sings and sings while everyone’s at work

    i hope i never see her i love the spectral mystery of not knowing who or really even where this comes from

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  141. Probably wise, nk. Aspire to this.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  142. this whole ginned up nontroversy about this fluffernutter is obviously a piece with the other ginned up nontroversies we’ve seen recently Mr. narciso

    this one’s being cheered on by the same jew-hating weirdos like bob corker and christiane amanpour what lurved them some iran deal all up in it

    this makes me think this has to do with the jew haters wanting to put the saudis in a box cause they hate israel and they love iran and the saudis aren’t playing ball with that agenda

    but it has absolutely nothing to do with this sketchy fluffernutter dude

    he’s just being used and prostituted like how they do on those handy parkland corpses

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  143. The big mistake as a rebel was deciding to go in and get Saudi approval for a marriage. What is alleged to have happened would be insanely cruel and barbaric… in other words ho hum, its the Middle East. Same shi# different day. The Libyans stuck a bayonet up Gaddaffi’s rectum and everyone laughed. Ha ha. Isis burnt the Jordanian pilot alive. Iraqi Sunnis torture Shiites and vice versa. Yazidi women were taken as sex slaves. In Sudan, Chad and Nigeria entire villages are shot and hacked to death, often with the involvement of child soldiers. Afghan warlords take boys from conquered villages and brutally rape them.
    Oh. But a dissident got killed in Turkey when he walked into the charnel house and thought he was gonna get a marriage license there. “Wait outside honey, I’ll be right back.” “Hey. What’s up with all the cutlery? Yeah, nice cleaver Abdul… you guys aren’t still holding a grudge over that little expose I wrote are you?” Said the guy who knows that in the Middle East grudges last for centuries

    steveg (a9dcab)

  144. Thank you for the response and the well wishes, Beldar. But I’m nothing like your friend, musically, and you’re right about the oboe. Which is why I’ll be getting a high school band quality clarinet and hoping for the best. 😉]

    Take it from my sister: if you pay the extra for the wood clarinet you have an excuse why you can’t join marching band because you can’t expose the instrument to the elements.

    JVW (42615e)

  145. I changed my mind again and bought the oboe. If I’m going to not (sic) learn how to play an instrument, it should be the instrument I really want.

    nk (dbc370)

  146. Didja get teh wah-wah pedal?

    Colonel Haiku (1fcc64)

  147. 146… you have great wisdom, Steveg. But there’s a sadness in that wisdom.

    Colonel Haiku (1fcc64)

  148. Here you go, Haiku: A Beginner’s Guide To The Oboe.

    nk (dbc370)

  149. 151… that was something, nk! I shall be forwarding that on.

    Colonel Haiku (1fcc64)

  150. I think it’s a rather extraordinary claim it should require airtight evidence,

    Narciso (d1f714)


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