Patterico's Pontifications

9/7/2018

Former Kavanaugh Clerk Zina Bash Flashes Alt Right Symbol, Twice, to Own the Libs or Something [UPDATED: I Was Wrong]

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:59 am

[UPDATE: This post is, as to Zina Bash, completely wrong. See UPDATES below. My apologies to Zina Bash and her husband. — P]

So a couple of days ago, a former Kavanaugh clerk named Zina Bash was attending his confirmation hearing, and had her hand resting on her arm in a way that suggested to the Resistance that she was throwing a white power sign. (It’s more like an alt right symbol than a pure white power sign. See discussion at the end of this post.)

Zina Bash 1

The Resistance went nuts, accusing her of being the female Richard Spencer. Her husband angrily refuted the allegation on Twitter:

Pretty convincing. That seemed like it was that. Most of us were willing to chalk up the “controversy” to #ResistanceMania.

Then she did it again, the next day. Quite deliberately:

This is being touted by many as a masterful example of trolling. Why, they falsely accused her yesterday, and look what she did to them today! Ha ha!

I have a different take. First, this raises the question of whether the initial use of the symbol was “trolling” as well. After all, trolling is part of the symbol’s history (see discussion below). Someone came up with video of the first time she made her hand do that, and it seems to happen after she is looking at her phone, seemingly quite deliberately. It’s not proof that she did it right after someone suggested it, but watch the video. It does not look accidental to me:

But here’s the thing. Regardless of whether it was an accident the first time or not, and regardless of whether she was unfairly attacked on Day One, doing this on Day Two is absurd.

It is, at a minimum, extraordinarily immature, and disrespectful to Kavanaugh — who is, by all accounts, a decent man and a great judge, and who does not deserve this distraction. By Day Two she knows that much of the country sees this symbol, in this context, as an alt right symbol at a minimum, if not a white power symbol. So she sits behind her former employer and deliberately flashes the symbol … to troll the libs??

If I were Kavanaugh, I would be appalled. And I would ask her not to come back on Day Three.

POSTSCRIPT RE THE OK SYMBOL: In the past couple of days, a lot of media folks have straightforwardly described this as a “white power” symbol. They discredit themselves by presenting it that starkly, just as they discredit themselves by describing Steve Bannon as a “white nationalist.” Bannon is a major alt right figure, and much of the alt right is white nationalist. But Bannon is not, in my judgment, a white nationalist. He coddles them, but he is not one of them. Similarly, with the OK symbol, it’s not quite as simple as “OK sign = white power” — and any such contention it makes it easy for people to seem to refute the argument by citing stories of its origins in 4chan threads where idiots talked about trolling people.

But the truth is that the sign, like Pepe the frog, has become a symbol of the alt right, and thus at least flirts with white nationalism. Yes, it’s still a prank of sorts, but its constant use by actual white nationalists and neo-Nazis tends to undercut the arguments that “it’s just an OK sign!” or “it’s just a prank!” I wrote about this extensively after that yutz Jim Hoft was seen throwing the sign at the White House podium, but a couple of images make the connection between the sign, Pepe the frog, white nationalism, and neo-Nazis clearer than 1000 words could.

Hoft Pepe Retweet

Pepe at Dachau

And Trump’s most crazed fans on the alt right use it all the time.

Cernovich OK 1

Milo OK 1

Milo OK 2

Roger Stone OK

If you argue it’s just an OK symbol, you’re either being dishonest or a dupe.

And I know there is going to be a heaping helping of “why are we talking so much about this woman and her hand signs?” The Trump superfans asking the question will never understand, but to the normals it’s pretty obvious: it’s news when a former law clerk of a Supreme Court nominee, sitting behind him at a Supreme Court confirmation hearing, deliberately flashes a hand sign symbolic of the alt right with overtones of white supremacy. Even if she’s doing it to own the libs, she’s still doing it.

UPDATE: Allahpundit says that, a day after a nationwide controversy over her making the OK symbol on national TV, she absentmindedly and innocently made the OK symbol on national TV. Again.

Um, OK. I guess it’s possible. But then, as readers of my previous post about Hoft throwing the sign, deniability is part of the troll. I don’t buy it.

UPDATE x2: OK, it was innocent after all. I feel like an idiot. I’ll explain in a new post and link that post in an update.

UPDATE x3: Here is the post explaining what really happened and admitting error.

[Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.]

334 Responses to “Former Kavanaugh Clerk Zina Bash Flashes Alt Right Symbol, Twice, to Own the Libs or Something [UPDATED: I Was Wrong]”

  1. she looks hungry like she wishes she brought a banana

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  2. Heh!

    nk (dbc370)

  3. I mean you are being satirical, right, Patterico?

    nk (dbc370)

  4. If I were Kavanaugh, I would be appalled.

    And who would I be? Spartacus?

    Appalled (c9622b)

  5. I mean you are being satirical, right, Patterico?

    No. This is incredibly immature and unprofessional of her.

    Patterico (9aff24)

  6. Because it is insulting, I recall the likes of Chris ‘waitress sandwich’ dodd imputing some sinister significance to Otto Reich’s name, of course the fact his parents were Austrian Jews who fled the holocaust never occurred to him.

    Booker faceplate like a,coyote and this is what you focus one

    Narciso (4d270a)

  7. Any of the leftists take a knee at the hearing or were they too busy disrupting it?

    NJRob (b00189)

  8. I tried to duplicate the crossed arms one, but I have big hands so my thumb and forefinger went over the top of my forearm like hers but my pinkie and ring finger curled under and only the middle finger was entirely visible straight down the middle of my forearm.

    nk (dbc370)

  9. par for this place, narciso. Its why i tune in, just to see how far left it goes.

    mg (8cbc69)

  10. #calloutculture

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  11. OMG. This opinion, if serious, is insane. Like, Donald Trump-level insane. Serious wack-a-doodle land.

    Al S (23bc66)

  12. As a wise Latina woman, do you think she gives a rip what some old white dude thinks of her, or how she arranges her fingers?

    I don’t think your white privilege extends that far anymore homey.

    lee (5789d5)

  13. 2 broke hoochie patrol strikes again…its as though they count by 2s, and that’s the side they’re assigned to. She might be part of the same cabal that sent the hipsterish dude to the Montana Trump Rally last night.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  14. Ive seen all sorts of examples over the past few days of Hillary, Obama, Bubba, Bernie, Warren, Pelosi etc. giving the OK sign. Don’t those count?

    As to her doing it again, after reading the comments on social media that this immediately disqualifies Kavanaugh for the bench, that she should be hounded from her job and that this proves all conservatives are Nazis, the only question I have is why didn’t she flash a different hand sign.

    This is TDS at its most comical and ridiculous.

    harkin (c7ccf8)

  15. Patterico:

    The Democrats have made this hearing ridiculous. Booker as Spartacus. Harris as Hamilton Burger. The temptation to mock the whole amped up idiocy has really got to be powerful, and it may have got the better of this woman. She is already got a starring role in lefty fever swamp-dom. She may have decided that, for her sake, she needed to up the volume to make it an obvious mockery, rather than some secret she was trying to hide.

    Best choice? No. Hugely unprofessional, etc…No. It’s like being rude in a moment of anger. It happens, even though your mama taught you better than that.

    Appalled (c9622b)

  16. I’ll add that Mexican-Jewish women are allowed to use the OK symbol. I mean, we all are (I’ll give you the OK symbol when you pry it from my cold dead hands), but certainly a person of Mexican-Jewish heritage specifically. Call it reclaiming, if you want.

    Al S (23bc66)

  17. I tried to duplicate the crossed arms one, but I have big hands so my thumb and forefinger went over the top of my forearm like hers but my pinkie and ring finger curled under and only the middle finger was entirely visible straight down the middle of my forearm.

    You did not look even 1/10 as hawt, I promise you.

    Dave (445e97)

  18. How long before the OK hand sign becomes a hate crime?

    lee (5789d5)

  19. “I don’t think your white privilege extends that far anymore homey.”

    This post is complete white-‘splaining (defined as: The paternalistic lecture given by Whites toward a person of color defining what should and shouldn’t be considered racist, while obliviously exhibiting their own racism).

    Al S (23bc66)

  20. Which raises the question: was she “trolling” the first time too? This is a bad job of being appalled at the idea she would EVER do it.

    She was trolling, but she didn’t mean it either.

    It has to be a set up.

    The odds that anybody would have noticed this if they weren’t pepared for it and looking for it are very small. What do they say about time to peruse documents? How could anyone be prepared to go with this?

    So how doi I explain this?

    Someone else got her to do this intending for it to be used in the way it was to argue that mainstream Republicans are repulsively racist.

    And somewhere a left/right, Republican/Democrat double agent is involved. The double agent might be the person who called her, or might be some other person who involved that person. But that double agent or troll is NOT Zina Bash – it’s her friend, or a “friend” of a friend.

    The same person who called her on the phone, telling her to use that symmbol, telling her it meant X, or maybe that it was an arbitrary sign just for her or him, like Carol Burnett tugging on her ear, was also in contact, directly or indirectly, intentionally or unintentionally, with the leftist opposition who would say it meant Y.

    And Zina Bash she was probably not the only person they targeted and attempted to use in this way, only with her it worked because if her naivete.

    (But if all this is so, her husband’s explanation of this as an accident isn’t exactly right.)

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  21. Harris as Hamilton Burger.

    Please don’t insult Hamilton Burger. The main reason that sneak Perry Mason won so often is that Hamilton Burger was hyper-ethical with a phobia verging on neurosis that he might convict an innocent person. Fishing for red herrings without a good faith basis was something Perry Mason did.

    nk (dbc370)

  22. More like Anne Marie Johnson’s recurring role on jag

    narciso (d1f714)

  23. 4. Appalled (c9622b) — 9/7/2018 @ 8:35 am

    And who would I be? Spartacus?

    And what does that movie have to do with anything Senator Cory Booker did?

    I suppose it is so he can pretend he tried to be martyr but the Republicans backed off. (the thing is the dcument Cory Booker read had already been authrozie3d for disclosure. Booker asked persmission Wednesday night, obviously hoping there wouldn’t be enough time to authorize it, given the procedures they would use, but people worked overtime, and did give permission by the time of teh hearing.)

    I’ve heard it said (by Marc Simone on the radio) that Cory Booker had the wrong movie (probably not, and there’s no reason to think he has an IQ of 85 or 90 – his office may think other people do, or “the crowd” does) and also read that the Democrats have jumped the shark (unfortunately, not)

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  24. 15. Appalled (c9622b) — 9/7/2018 @ 9:16 am

    The Democrats have made this hearing ridiculous. Booker as Spartacus. Harris as Hamilton Burger.

    Wait a second.

    Booker isn’t Spartacus (or more exactly, one of the people claiming to be Spartacus so that Romans can’t kill him)

    But Kamala Harris is Hamilton Burger. What she wanted to be maybe was Perry Mason.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  25. Don’t say, A-OK out loud any more. It’s a dog-whistle for ‘White Supremacy,’ a college kid told me.

    It’s double super secret shorthand for Arians are OK and all others are subject to deportation, except the thin, long legged, really hot ones.

    ropelight (f8d04a)

  26. I disagree. As her husband said, she is part Mexican, part Jewish, and a granddaughter of Holocaust survivors. The notion that she is a white supremacist is absurd. So she is showing them how absurd it is.

    I am an Orthodox Jew, and three of my grandparents lost close relatives in the Holocaust. If some said I was a Nazi, I would laugh in their face. I might even troll them by giving them the Nazi salute.

    Sometimes absurdity has to be answered with absurdity.

    Bored Lawyer (998177)

  27. More like Anne Marie Johnson’s recurring role on jag

    In other words, Kamala Harris before the Willie Brown hush money got spent at the plastic surgeon.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  28. That’s about the size of it, I can imagine if any Barrett had been nominated, that conference room would be like a scene from scanners, except brain capacity really wasn’t on display.

    It after the success of the night manager, a&e is reinventing the little drummer girl in november.

    Narciso (31d00b)

  29. You can’t tell an angry Latina state, looking at doifuses at coons and Booker, my temptation would be to throw something.

    Narciso (31d00b)

  30. His atty is also staring daggers at these morons,

    Narciso (31d00b)

  31. Sometimes absurdity has to be answered with absurdity.
    Bored Lawyer (998177) — 9/7/2018 @ 10:02 am

    Reason has its limits. Why not just jump straight to violence?

    DRJ (46c88f)

  32. Why do we give these jackasses the benefit of the doubt when they gave mediocrities like sotomayor and apparatchiks like Kagan the benefit of the doubt

    The administration is circumventing that ridiculous Flores settlement which is deliberately unworkable, fine.

    Narciso (31d00b)

  33. 29. Bored Lawyer (998177) — 9/7/2018 @ 10:02 am

    The notion that she is a white supremacist is absurd.

    Obviously, of course.

    But she could have done that intentionally, and not as parody.

    She could have been tricked into making a gesture, or adopting a posture, which has been defined, or redefined, as a semi-secret white supremacy symbol and more. And she probably was, because if nobody was waiting for it, nobody would have spotted it.

    The opposition to the Federalist Society is that devious, and that stupid or hopeful. Hopeful, that is, that there are many people who are ignorant enough to believe that that was proof of how prevalent “dog-whistles” are among Republicans. Hopeful that they will believe that was adig whistle if that is the first thing that they hear (a dog whistle which for some reason someone thought important enough to put on live television – I guess because almost nobody except for some extremely well informed people on the Internet knows is a dog whistle.)

    And that they will be prejudiced enough to continue to believe that after being told that’s not true.

    The whole idea is to prejudice as many people as possible as early as possible.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  34. This is why we should have no more confirmation hearings that are televised–maybe just make the audio available–because we have now descended to the point where the trolls have found racism in a gesture that is not racist, and a law clerk who is trolling the trolls by now deliberately making the gesture. All during the confirmation process of a Supreme Court nominee that can affect how the country operates in the future. I’ts incredibly disrespectful to Judge Kavanaugh and to the process in general.

    Rochf (877dba)

  35. 26. ropelight (f8d04a) — 9/7/2018 @ 9:49 am

    It’s a dog-whistle for ‘White Supremacy,’ a college kid told me.

    It’s double super secret shorthand for Arians are OK and all others are subject to deportation, except the thin, long legged, really hot ones.

    And millions of white people know about it.

    Someone in college can believe that, because he’s so young.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  36. I wonder if that Soros money is counterfeit?

    mg (8cbc69)

  37. Where did she get her law degree:

    https://freebeacon.com/politics/kamala-harris-refers-constitution-book-carry/
    I think my hand would ball into a,fist at that point

    Narciso (31d00b)

  38. The nortumpers are using kids as pawns in the S.C. hearings. Perfect.

    mg (8cbc69)

  39. There is another possibility that is being overlooked:

    I have seen many women (much more than men) do this out of nervousness. If you look at the picture, no one, including Bash, looks very confortablle. And why should they? They are being screamed at by members of the audience and being disrespected by some of the panel.

    This all comes after the left wing media spent a week telling us to be more civil. What a joke.

    AZ Bob (885937)

  40. I hope it doesn’t turn out that she has carpal tunnel issues or a problem with the tendons in her wrist, which might cause her hand to naturally fall into that position when relaxed.

    Karl Lembke (e37f42)

  41. “…the random way she rested her hand during a long hearing.”

    Bull. Swamp Creatures all.

    And Putin smiled.

    “That’s enough. My friend Ollie always wants to take a lot of picture of me. I’m afraid he’ll catch me picking my nose. he wouldn’t print that would you though, Ollie?” – The Big Dick, August 8, 1974

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  42. 44, good call…the first incident could also be her trying to pop a pimple or bring a lesion/mole into better view to see if a doctor visit is in order.

    urbanleftbehind (fea0b4)

  43. ‘US Attorney John Bash @USAttyBash Zina is Mexican on her mother’s side and Jewish on her father’s side. She was born in Mexico. Her grandparents were Holocaust survivors. We of course have nothing to do with hate groups, which aim to terrorize and demean other people — never have and never would.’

    Kid, you’re in Washington now. If you’re explainin’, you’re losing.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  44. 46. I think she’s just pinching herself to keep awake. She probably got a text saying, “Hey, are you falling asleep there?” and then she starts pinching herself.

    Xmas (e63a38)

  45. Interesting. Can’t post the babylon bee article mocking this excess of concern. Just won’t post or even show up as in moderation.

    NJRob (b00189)

  46. No. This is incredibly immature and unprofessional of her

    Meh. Have you heard and seen a CIC rally lately? Or Hangover Part III?

    No, this is right in step w/t times we live in.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  47. Rob, just tried to post that myself. What’s up with that?

    lee (5789d5)

  48. “I think she’s just pinching herself to keep awake. She probably got a text saying, “Hey, are you falling asleep there?” and then she starts pinching herself.

    I think the swamp creature being directed by Putin via shortwave is a better theory.

    harkin (c7ccf8)

  49. She hated Kavanaugh. Reasons? Who knew; she didn’t, not really. What she knew was the hate.

    So, what could she do to this, this…enemy? Something that couldn’t just go right back up on her and ruin her career and marriage. Something small and accidental but nonetheless, could just put some kind of stain on this awful man. Ruining reputations is so easy today, with social media. All she had to do was think. And then, she lifted her eyes and saw the camera’s pitiless stare.

    She laughed a little to herself, sent a mocking text to a friend, and then curled her hand and waited…

    Appalled (c9622b)

  50. I don’t buy Zina’s Day 2 denial, but I’m utterly appalled by Patrick’s “the far left says it’s WP/ alt-right, so IT IS” approach to mob-vetoing a gesture with centuries of innocent usage. Didn’t this whole hoax start in 4chan?

    Zina was boldly saying, on Day 2, “Screw you. I’ll make this utterly innocent gesture if I want to; you can’t control what it means just by your ipse dixit.”

    Same goes for Milo and the others.

    Seek help for TDS, Patrick. I come here less and less and long ago switched my Amazon affinity to Ace of Spades. When I do peek in, you increasingly post as if you are trying, TRYING to look like Kurt Schlichter’s caricature of “TruCons.”

    Mitch (341ca0)

  51. ‘US Attorney John Bash- Zina is Mexican on her mother’s side and Jewish on her father’s side. She was born in Mexico. Her grandparents were Holocaust survivors. We of course have nothing to do with hate groups, which aim to terrorize and demean other people — never have and never would.’

    John, John, John.

    If this was Dogland you just characterized your b-tch as a mutt. Is she wearing tags for bling or simply tattooed w/t numbers? Stop explaining stupid, grow-up and knock off this childishness.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  52. Just tried to post the Bee piece – no go.

    I noticed ‘racist’ in the URL…..

    harkin (c7ccf8)

  53. This is actually a gesture that people use all the time to denote “OK” or “Gotcha.” I use it myself pretty frequently. You can actually see her mouth “Oh!” when she makes the gesture in the video clip, like “Oh! Got it.”

    It’s like a thumbs-up. Setting aside the fact that many many many people neither know nor care how idiots like Jim Hoft, Lucien Whatsisname, Mike Cernovich, Milo Pedodefenderopoulos, and those Roger Stone fanboys spend their time, if they were all throwing thumbs-up in those photos, would the thumbs-up be out of bounds for this lady?

    (No, it would not).

    Leviticus (efada1)

  54. “If there’s one thing you’ve noticed about white nationalists, it’s that they have hands. And something they’ve been doing a lot with their hands lately is sending out secret messages in support of white supremacy. If you see anyone doing any of these hand gestures, you can be certain they are a racist and should report them to the nearest racism reporting facility (usually Twitter).”

    Great piece.

    harkin (c7ccf8)

  55. Born in Mexico, you say?

    I heard they’re not sending us their best people…

    Could it have been an MS-13 gang sign instead?

    Dave (445e97)

  56. This absolutely hilarious. She did a great thing. THAT is how you deal with the outrage mob. You don’t give in. You don’t apologize. You strike back. It is certainly the not immature or unprofessional. In fact, I find it very mature and professional. And besides its just an OK symbol. It’s not being dishonest to say that it has nothing to do with the alt-right or white power. We shouldn’t let a few people define a symbol. Even the ACLU has debunked the idea that it’s anything more than an OK symbol.

    Patrick Henry, the 2nd (27d451)

  57. Aaaaaand this is the point at which I finally give up on Patterico, despite not being much more of a Trump fan than he is. If you’re at the point where you start promoting this kind of inane nonsense, then there isn’t much point to coming here anymore. Say hi to Amy Siskind for me.

    radar (e827c2)

  58. @59. Gee, Dave, Neil came from a strange place called Wapakoneta and gave us all a ‘thumbs up’ on his way to the moon. Soon the kids will learn he was not only a Canadian, but a racist as well.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  59. @60. It is certainly the not immature or unprofessional.

    Except it is.

    Thanks for playing.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  60. Its pronounced Way-pok with the -neta dropped, as nearby Bellfontaine is pronounced Bell-font, Ohi-yah. Drove through there (US 33 from Columbus to Fort Wayne) as an interesting detour several times (as opposed to taking 70 to Indy or 23 then 75 to Toledo) on my ways to Chicago.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  61. 47. DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/7/2018 @ 11:16 am

    Kid, you’re in Washington now. If you’re explainin’, you’re losing.

    That’s still a lot better than apologizing, which they should never do. The apology will only be accepted as proof of the accusation.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  62. 52. harkin (c7ccf8) — 9/7/2018 @ 11:32 am

    I think the swamp creature being directed by Putin via shortwave is a better theory.

    The new York Times had afronmt page story Sunday saying that is actually possible, but with microwaves, and they are shortrange
    (although apparently broadcasting words into people’s brains has not yet been attempted, and it’s easier to just inflict brain damage)

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/01/science/sonic-attack-cuba-microwave.html

    More recently, the American military itself sought to develop microwave arms that could invisibly beam painfully loud booms and even spoken words into people’s heads….In particular, a growing number of analysts cite an eerie phenomenon known as the Frey effect, named after Allan H. Frey, an American scientist. Long ago, he found that microwaves can trick the brain into perceiving what seem to be ordinary sounds. ..

    Caption to illustration: MICROWAVES hitting the head in the area around the temporal lobe were perceived as sound in a 1962 experiment. Several theories have sought to explain the exact mechanism but it remains in dispute.

    …The microwave idea teems with unanswered questions. Who fired the beams? The Russian government? The Cuban government? A rogue Cuban faction sympathetic to Moscow? And, if so, where did the attackers get the unconventional arms..

    …The dimensions of the human head, scientists say, make it a fairly good antenna for picking up microwave signals.

    Mr. Frey, a biologist, said he stumbled on the acoustic effect in 1960 while working for General Electric’s Advanced Electronics Center at Cornell University. A man who measured radar signals at a nearby G.E. facility came up to him at a meeting and confided that he could hear the beam’s pulses — zip, zip, zip.

    Intrigued, Mr. Frey traveled to the man’s workplace in Syracuse and positioned himself in a radar beam. “Lo,” he recalled, “I could hear it, too.”

    Mr. Frey’s resulting papers — reporting that even deaf people could hear the false sounds — founded a new field of study on radiation’s neural impacts..

    …Investigators raced to confirm and extend Mr. Frey’s findings. At first they named the phenomenon after him, but eventually called it the microwave auditory effect and, in time, more generally, radio-frequency hearing.

    The Soviets took notice. Not long after his initial discoveries, Mr. Frey said, he was invited by the Soviet Academy of Sciences to visit and lecture. Toward the end, in a surprise, he was taken outside Moscow to a military base surrounded by armed guards and barbed-wire fences.

    “They had me visiting the various labs and discussing the problems,” including the neural impacts of microwaves, Mr. Frey recalled. “I got an inside look at their classified program.”

    Moscow was so intrigued by the prospect of mind control that it adopted a special terminology for the overall class of envisioned arms, calling them psychophysical and psychotronic…

    …In Albuquerque, N.M., Air Force scientists sought to beam comprehensible speech into the heads of adversaries. Their novel approach won a patent in 2002, and an update in 2003. Both were assigned to the Air Force secretary, helping limit the idea’s dissemination…

    …In a twist, the 2003 contract was awarded to microwave experts who had emigrated to the United States from Russia and Ukraine.

    It is unknown if Washington deploys such arms. But the Pentagon built a related weapon known as the Active Denial System, hailing it in a video. It fires an invisible beam meant to deter mobs and attackers with fiery sensations.

    And tinfoil hats are not of any help.

    gthe interesting thinmg about the new York Times article is, that although it mentios these attacks hapepning in other palces than Cuba, it says nothing aboyt the well estabnlished attacks in U.,S., diplomats that took place in China.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  63. And tinfoil hats are not of any help.

    Damnit!

    Dave (445e97)

  64. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14628312

    This is more like a telegraph than a telephone, and it can have concussion like effects, and creste feelings of nausea and vertigo.

    Corewction: the article does mention China and links tot his:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/30/world/asia/china-sonic-guangzhou.html

    Also this, in the first article:

    Francisco Palmieri, a State Department official, was asked during the open Senate hearing if “attacks against U.S. personnel in Cuba” had been raised with Moscow.

    “That is a very good question,” Mr. Palmieri replied. But addressing it, he added, would require “a classified setting.”

    Also:

    The basic weapon might look like a satellite dish. In theory, such a device might be hand-held or mounted in a van, car, boat or helicopter. Microwave arms are seen as typically working over relatively short distances — across the length of a few rooms or blocks. High-powered ones might be able to fire beams across several football fields, or even for several miles.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  65. @64. Meh. Know it well. Been to the museum there a few times on the way to OSU games in Columbus. Lived in Findlay for a time up 75.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  66. Scroll down on the linked page to see the members of the Woodbridge chapter of the Kappa Alpha Psi all fraternity flashing the white supremacist hand gesture in unison. The Nazis are everywhere!

    http://www.woodbridgekappas.com/outreach/nupemadness

    Barry Jacobs (e757ce)

  67. And tinfoil hats are not of any help.

    Gee, Sammy, the tinfoil hats we all wore in ’79 worked; Skylab hit Australia instead of New Jersey.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  68. My God! White supremacists everywhere!

    https://greekdivineandmore.com/products/kappa-alpha-psi-word-tee

    Barry Jacobs (e757ce)

  69. It’s like a thumbs-up. Setting aside the fact that many many many people neither know nor care how idiots like Jim Hoft, Lucien Whatsisname, Mike Cernovich, Milo Pedodefenderopoulos, and those Roger Stone fanboys spend their time, if they were all throwing thumbs-up in those photos, would the thumbs-up be out of bounds for this lady?

    (No, it would not).

    Leviticus,

    In Long Beach, Insanes use the thumbs up as a gang sign. Once in a high profile murder case the defendant, an Insane, gave the thumbs up to a witness during the preliminary hearing. It was not encouragement. It was a threat. The judge threatened to have him removed from the courtroom if he did it again, and the judge was correct.

    IOW, it’s all contextual — and the context you have (uncharacteristically for you) ignored is the flap about all this on Day One, and the way that dishonest alt righters and their fans (including some on this thread) bat their eyelashes innocently and use the “it’s just an OK symbol!” defense.

    As I documented in the previous thread, Hoft used the “look at all the Democrats throwing this sign, it’s just an OK symbol!” dodge moments after tweeting out an image of Pepe making the same sign. The trolls bounce back and forth between throwing the symbol deliberately and acting innocent. It’s part of the troll.

    Do I *know* this woman did this deliberately? No, but it’s the way to bet.

    Patterico (9aff24)

  70. Again: literally everyone using the “look at these people making the OK sign!” defense are either (generally willing) dupes or trolls. A lot of willing dupes in this thread.

    That’s OK. I knew there would be when I wrote the post. I even correctly predicted who some of them would be. People don’t change.

    Patterico (9aff24)

  71. Yeah but the nupes/Kappa Alpha Psi are the 2nd nerdiest of the black frats lacking the roughneck demeanor of the Qs and the Huxtable/Bougie attitude of the Alphas.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  72. I don’t buy Zina’s Day 2 denial, but I’m utterly appalled by Patrick’s “the far left says it’s WP/ alt-right, so IT IS” approach to mob-vetoing a gesture with centuries of innocent usage.

    So you didn’t read my post about Hoft. I’ll put you down as one of the dupes. Consider that maybe I know more about this than you. Have you ever been retweeted by Ben Shapiro and had your Twitter timeline flooded by alt righters? It happens to me regularly.I know how they behave. You can blind yourself to it but don’t pretend you know better than I how they behave. You don’t.

    Patterico (9aff24)

  73. Could Zina Bash be the Delta Sigma Theta analogue to this famous (or infamous) Nupe?

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  74. The Defense Department has a version (according to the New York Times) that doesn’t harm people

    https://www.dvidshub.net/video/304622/solid-state-active-denial-technology#.Umk9zsvD-pp

    But the Navy has something more hazardous:

    https://www.sbir.gov/sbirsearch/detail/349489

    Anyway Putin seems to have something – or msybe is sellinmg something) that can harm people, and produces noisxe as an (unwanted probably) side effect. In this connection, the Nrorth Koreans asking Secrtataryof State Mike Pompeo in Pyongyang if he slept comfortably looks ominous. Maybe they aiming something at him in the hopes of making him stupider, but it was important for them for him not to noticre anything..

    There are some clues as to the possibility of making some kind of into-your-head telephone without the recipient needing to have a receiver, but it’s probably very difficult and not much use and maybe kind of hard to hide the broadcasting facility.

    http://cryptome.org/rf-speech/rf-speech-03.pdf

    It would make an interesting science fiction story. (communicate with prisoner – he shows he got the messasge by making a hand signal)

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  75. Seek help for TDS, Patrick. I come here less and less and long ago switched my Amazon affinity to Ace of Spades

    My speaking my mind has adverse financial consequences for me, and Ace’s promotion of tribalist bullshit pads his bottom line. We are both aware of this. I am happy to be rid of dupes who happily lap up the nonsense that he and Schlichter dish out. Be gone with you.

    Patterico (9aff24)

  76. 26.Don’t say, A-OK out loud any more.

    Who does? That’s so very 1961.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  77. I would have thought such a silly thing was beneath you. Your TDS is hitting new heights. Seek help before it’s too late.

    Skorcher (db89ee)

  78. The people who say it’s accidental and/or means nothing even on Day 2 because it’s just an OK symbol need to get in a room with the people who insist that it’s a deliberate troll on Day 2 and therefore awesome, and settle on one story.

    I tend toward the deliberate troll theory. And it appalls me that Trump has so degraded public discourse that such an action could be cheered, rather than being seen as the immature and disrespectful act that it was. Kavanaugh, a good man and good judge who is no alt righter, troll, or dummy, deserves better.

    To those who get self-righteously indignant at me for noticing what is happening and calling it out — your reaction is part of the troll game. The only question is whether you are participating knowingly or being a dupe.

    Patterico (9aff24)

  79. I would have thought such a silly thing was beneath you. Your TDS is hitting new heights. Seek help before it’s too late.

    I could respond to this insult with a like insult but I will just note that you have no argument.

    Patterico (9aff24)

  80. @83 Your TDS is hitting new heights. Seek help before it’s too late.

    Apparently you missed the Montana rally.

    Don’t bother to look for it online, just spill out a can of alphabet soup and you’ll get the gist of it.

    Tick-tock, tick-tock… ‘Seek help before it’s to late.’

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  81. DCSCA,

    Yes, lol at the notion that *I* am the one who needs to seek help, with Trunp’s patently insane antics on display day after day.

    Patterico (9aff24)

  82. @87. LOL. Yes, our Captain is going to go Full Queeg soon. But then, ‘anonymous’ is so hard to pronounce when your native tongue is Gibberish.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  83. I could respond to this insult with a like insult but I will just note that you have no argument.

    Actually it was kind of a complement, in a retro sort of way. If any of my leaning-left friends were worked up enough about this to take it even remotely seriously, let alone take time out of their otherwise busy lives to devote paragraphs to it, I would be concerned for them as well. I have nerve damage in my right arm and when it acts up, which it has done in meetings and such, it relieves the pain for me to touch my little finger to my thumb and bend my wrist in. I have often worried, though only fleetingly, that some hyper PC HR person might take that as a sign of mocking the disabled or something. Must every gosh darn thing be a political issue? This is only an issue because you and your fellow TDSers are making it one. Get a grip.9

    Skorcher (db89ee)

  84. Run to re-election and then quit – be better (or more cognizant of medical reality) than Reagan.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  85. I will just note that you have no argument

    That’s pretty much true of anyone who thinks that throwing around the “TDS” label is clever or insightful. Doubly true of those who suggest that Trump-critics need to “seek help.”

    Radegunda (7137ae)

  86. The blame Trump crowd voters is funny. McCabe/popcorn/2018

    mg (8cbc69)

  87. Apparently you missed the Montana rally.

    Yes, I did miss the Montana rally. Because I have a job and a life that is not consumed with politics. You people really need to get outside more. Get a life. It’s really quite a rewarding effort in itself.

    Skorcher (db89ee)

  88. Actually it was kind of a complement, in a retro sort of way.

    Actually, it wasn’t, in a 3,2,1, zero retro-fire sort of way.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  89. It struck me that the two might be unrelated. The first time the photo just shows her sitting there with her hand resting the way it is. The second time she turns her head to the right and then makes an OK sign in an apparent response that “she got it.” I could be wrong, but all this strikes me as a bit convoluted and requires one to believe in a great number of assumptions. Either way, if this is where the functioning of a very important part our system has ended up, we’re toast.

    Allen (5f3847)

  90. Actually it was kind of a complement, in a retro sort of way. If any of my leaning-left friends were worked up enough about this to take it even remotely seriously, let alone take time out of their otherwise busy lives to devote paragraphs to it, I would be concerned for them as well. I have nerve damage in my right arm and when it acts up, which it has done in meetings and such, it relieves the pain for me to touch my little finger to my thumb and bend my wrist in. I have often worried, though only fleetingly, that some hyper PC HR person might take that as a sign of mocking the disabled or something. Must every gosh darn thing be a political issue? This is only an issue because you and your fellow TDSers are making it one. Get a grip.9

    This comment has more words but still no argument. Maybe you could respond to what I wrote in the post? Offer your own theory of what she was up to?

    Patterico (9aff24)

  91. “By Day Two she knows that much of the country sees this symbol, in this context, as an alt right symbol at a minimum, if not a white power symbol.”

    Ridiculous assertion. I’d love to know how many people translates into “much of the country.” This is the problem with Never-Trump cucks like Patterico: they accept the “standards of propriety” as defined by the Left.

    Ryan (95e5ab)

  92. @93. Yes, I did miss the Montana rally. Because I have a job and a life that is not consumed with politics.

    You think that makes you special? Guess what: it doesn’t.

    If you’re out of alphabet soup, just pour out the letters from a Scrabble game instead.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  93. I understand that not everyone is as familiar with the alt right as I am, and I understand the desire to take the “look at me I am the adult in the room” approach. But I spent some time writing the post and backing it up with evidence, as I always do, and simply waving your hand at me and labeling my argument silly is disrespectful and suggests to me that if you persist in such behavior I don’t need you here. This is addressed to radar as much as anyone, but it applies to anyone taking that lazy approach. You know who you are.

    Patterico (9aff24)

  94. I don’t assert that my interpretation must be right and anyone who disagrees is an idiot. But anyone who thinks my argument is so ridiculous that it can be easily dismissed is either tribal or has not considered my argument seriously enough.

    Patterico (9aff24)

  95. Ridiculous assertion. I’d love to know how many people translates into “much of the country.” This is the problem with Never-Trump cucks like Patterico: they accept the “standards of propriety” as defined by the Left.

    You’re right of course. I meant much of that section of the country that follows political issues. That is of course a small subset.

    Patterico (9aff24)

  96. It struck me that the two might be unrelated. The first time the photo just shows her sitting there with her hand resting the way it is.

    The video of Day One is in the post, and its contents are discussed. Try reading the whole post.

    Patterico (9aff24)

  97. @95. Gee, analyze Frame 313 whre she’s watching a baseball game and look for similar signals from the catcher at a grassy ball park behind home plate.

    It was deliberate and immature and stupid.

    If you’re explainin’- you’re losing.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  98. so what? when alexandra ocasio-cortez becomes president in 2024 they will impeach ( or worse ) off the supreme court. democrat motto paraphrase of stalin no man no problem!

    lany (bf22bc)

  99. Breaking: Coffee Boy takes order in the court: sentenced to 14 days in jail and a year of supervision.

    You want two sugars w/that?

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  100. This comment has more words but still no argument.

    See, perhaps this is the problem. Do you put everything in the context of an argument? Why do you think I need to prove something here? I don’t have to prove anything. It’s just a suggestion. A thought. A riff, possibly.
    This is a blog, not a court of law, right? It’s not like I’m fixing to call the white truck people and they’ll be coming to take you away…ha-ha?

    Skorcher (db89ee)

  101. If I were some nobody and somehow some innocent posture I effected drove the leftists nuts, you best believe I would repeat it again and again and again. Screw them. F their tyranny.

    However, were I in a position as this young lady was, and I spent countless hours observing very powerful pols go after the man I desperately wish to be confirmed as thy did, I would do (or in this case NOT do) whatever slightest thing I could to avoid even the vaguest appearance of a life raft they would glom onto to hurt that nominee.

    Pat is correct. That second occurrence is a significant breach of professionalism. And of trust.

    Ed from SFV (6d42fa)

  102. You think that makes you special? Guess what: it doesn’t.

    Umm…me? No. you maybe. I do notice that on the few occasions that I drop in here, there are certain people, you being one of them, who seem to ALWAYS be here. Makes me wonder if some of y’all are even real.

    Skorcher (db89ee)

  103. Why do you think I need to prove something here?

    The Easter Bunny is made of white chocolate. Why do you think I need to prove something here? Have you met my friend, Harvey?

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  104. The Kenyan Messiah was out campaigning for the never trumpers and the never trumpers are campaigning for the return of deep state.

    mg (8cbc69)

  105. See, perhaps this is the problem. Do you put everything in the context of an argument? Why do you think I need to prove something here? I don’t have to prove anything. It’s just a suggestion. A thought. A riff, possibly.

    You called him and his post silly.

    You called him a name.

    You told him to seek psychiatric treatment.

    Are you suggesting that you should just be able to lob grade-school insults freely, without being called out on them?

    In adult conversation, the standard is usually that you shouldn’t make assertions which you can’t or won’t back up.

    Dave (445e97)

  106. Coffee Boy with timed served and good behavior will be our before the coffee perks.

    mg (8cbc69)

  107. @112.Coffee Boy with timed served and good behavior will be our before the coffee perks.

    Should be pretty cold w/some colorful mold after 14 days. Use instant.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  108. @108. See #109. Have you met my friend, Harvey?

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  109. #100, Patterico, taking your argument seriously, or giving it a fair hearing, might be more likely if you didn’t have a long record of assuming the worst about Trump’s character and motivations. The credibility of your speculations has been tainted by your record of kneejerk hostile assumptions.

    ropelight (5136f2)

  110. Some left-wing nut cases decided that a common hand gesture with an ordinary meaning of “OK” is somehow a symbol of bigotry. I refuse to kowtow to these nut cases. I will not stop using this gesture.

    David in Cal (0d5a1d)

  111. has zina even landed yet

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  112. @116 David in Cal

    You could try reading Patterico’s OP of this thread.

    Davethulhu (fddbc4)

  113. … a long record of assuming the worst about Trump’s character and motivations.

    Apparently you missed the Montana rally, too.

    When someone defends their sanity by boasting they can ramble in fragmented gibberish for 90 minutes straight w/o notes, you might want to consider a reassessment. Or visit any city park and find fellow travelers debating trees and pigeons.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  114. 116.Some left-wing nut cases decided that a common hand gesture with an ordinary meaning of “OK” is somehow a symbol of bigotry.

    Yeah, and a nose flick ain’t so signal to a fellow grifter, eh, Gondorff.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  115. might be more likely if you didn’t have a long record of assuming the worst about Trump’s character and motivations. The credibility of your speculations has been tainted by your record of kneejerk hostile assumptions.

    Isn’t the relevant question whether his assessments of Trump’s character and motivations are accurate?

    You don’t offer any evidence that they aren’t.

    Dave (445e97)

  116. first of all Mr. Trump is the whole reason Brett Kavanaugh gets to be a supremer

    he’d still be stuck working at Trader Joe’s if it wasn’t for President Trump!

    so in conclusion there’s no reason to get all that excited about Mrs. Bash and her fingers cause there’s no way to really know for sure if she even did this on purpose and even if she did it’s no big thing cause first of all we know that all’s well that ends well

    we also know that if there’s no harm then there’s no foul

    and first of all this disturbing fad where we spend so much time and energy policing the self-expression of people is dreary and oppressive

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  117. Wait, we have to flash a sign now? Just being a Republican isn’t enough? What a drag.

    Munroe (326850)

  118. and first of all this disturbing fad where we spend so much time and energy policing the self-expression of people is dreary and oppressive

    Like fining people millions of dollars for kneeling at a football game, you mean?

    Dave (445e97)

  119. How awesome would it be if the next time she showed up in public she was dressed as a chorus girl from Springtime For Hitler?

    There were many things to get agitated about at the Kavanaugh hearings but this ridiculousness doesn’t even crack the top 100.

    harkin (c7ccf8)

  120. the NFL’s trashy and thuggy anymore Mr. Dave

    but that represents a different dreary and oppressive fad

    and that one’s what we call “the politicization of everything”

    number one (first of all) football players are too thuggy and stupid to have real ideas and opinions, especially NFL ones (trashy)

    therefore in conclusion it’s not a good analogy

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  121. Oh yes, and about finding the author of that NYT Op-Ed…

    “I’ve thought the whole thing out. Someone made a duplicate key to the icebox… Some things we must assume. When I was an ensign on a cruiser, five pounds of cheese was missing. Everybody forgot about it but me. I found out a chow hound had made a wax impression of the icebox key. He confessed and I got a letter of commendation. It’s the same here… I’ve got a simple plan. We tag every key on board with the owner’s name. Then we strip all hands to make sure we have all the keys. Then we test each key on the icebox padlock. The one that fits is the thief’s… He may hide it, but we’ll find it. Get on the ball. It should be fun doing some detective work.” – Captain Queeg [Humphrey Bogart] ‘The Caine Mutiny’ 1954

    Polygraphs at the ready, Captain, sir. Strawberry shortcake tonight, too!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  122. “I’ve thought the whole thing out. There is no way anyone lays their arm and hand down in that position unless they want Jews to wear yellow stars and brown children to be shot at the border”

    Fyp

    harkin (c7ccf8)

  123. How awesome would it be if the next time she showed up in public she was dressed as a chorus girl from Springtime For Hitler?

    That would definitely make me snap to attention and salute.

    Dave (445e97)

  124. @125.

    How awesome would it be if the next time she showed up in public she had a can of Classic Coke w/a pube on it?

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  125. Polygraphs at the ready, Captain, sir. Strawberry shortcake tonight, too!

    Josh Barro:

    bringing a lie detector to the White House feels like bringing a drug-sniffing dog to Studio 54

    Dave (445e97)

  126. therefore in conclusion it’s not a good analogy

    Thank you for the clarification!

    Dave (445e97)

  127. That would definitely make me snap to attention and salute.”

    That’s a plus, most just snapped.

    https://mistercomfypants.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/producers-03.png

    harkin (c7ccf8)

  128. #121, Dave, the evidence you’re calling for is all around us, it’s what gives The Donald his transcendent authority.

    It’s an indestructible political energy field created by the hope and trust of everyday Americans yearning for freedom from Fake News and an end to repressive government intrusion.

    The unstoppable political power of millions upon millions of American patriots surrounds Trump, protects him, and penetrates both him and his supporters, it binds them together into a sacred alliance of the faithful which will endure so long as grass grows and rivers flow into the seas.

    ropelight (5136f2)

  129. ropelight (5136f2) — 9/7/2018 @ 3:01 pm

    Okaaaaaaaay…

    #NotACult

    Dave (445e97)

  130. The unstoppable political power of millions upon millions of American patriots surrounds Trump, protects him, and penetrates both him and his supporters, it binds them together into a sacred alliance of the faithful which will endure so long as grass grows and rivers flow into the seas.

    ropelight (5136f2)

    Sounds familiar. Is this “the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal” ?

    DRJ (15874d)

  131. “Sounds familiar. Is this “the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal” ?

    If he’s going to go full Obama and claim power over sea level, he’ll have to bust out the Greek columns and find a much more adoring press corps.

    But c’mon, never go full Obama

    harkin (c7ccf8)

  132. #136, DRJ, it’s a combination of Obi-Wan Kenobi in Starwars; Old Lodge Skins in Little Big Man; and with a bit of sinew from me to bind it together.

    ropelight (5136f2)

  133. Is it time to agree that ropelight (see #134) is one long satire?
    And yet, and yet … it sounds so much like the assuredly real Trumpistas sound.

    Radegunda (7137ae)

  134. And speaking of……

    NBC News
    @NBCNews
    Former President Obama: “I complained plenty about Fox News, but you never heard me threaten to shut them down, or call them ‘enemies of the people.’”
    __ _

    Maggie Haberman
    @maggieNYT
    Did substantially increase leak prosecutions, however.
    __ _

    Rquebus
    @Rquebus
    Replying to @NBCNews
    “Obama, who campaigned on a promise to protect government whistle-blowers, made greater use of the Espionage Act to prosecute leakers and menace journalists than all other presidents combined.

    harkin (c7ccf8)

  135. Nothing at all to do with Obama. It was an example of false attribution by DRJ, but in fairness she was just swinging for the fence.

    ropelight (5136f2)

  136. If he found a more adoring press corps than FoxNews, the anchors would need to be porn actresses and they’d have to rate the coverage NC-17…

    Dave (01fd6f)

  137. You sound just like him. Different cult, same idea.

    DRJ (15874d)

  138. “Is it time to agree that ……… is one long satire?”

    Actually it’s time to admit that TDS is one long clown parade.

    We’ve now gotten to the point where (assuming on the second day that the OK sign was deliberate) that a Jewish Latina with a family Holocaust history is being chastised by American conservatives (actual thinking conservatives), for trolling people calling her a white nationalist Nazi and demanding her employer dismiss her.

    Dood – where’s my country?

    harkin (c7ccf8)

  139. Dood – where’s my country?

    Some assh*le decided to “make it great again.”

    Dave (01fd6f)

  140. #143, DRJ, no, I do not sound like Obama, not remotely. Now, play nice, I even gave you an easy out, so don’t chide or be ungrateful – I think you’re tryin’ to get my goat.

    ropelight (5136f2)

  141. Sounds familiar. Is this “the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal” ?
    DRJ (15874d) — 9/7/2018 @ 3:33 pm

    Nope, it’s a ripped off passage from Howard Zinn’s ‘A People’s History of the United States‘. In it, Zinn, who was a dedicated progressive liberal, said:

    “Zinn presented a different side of history from what he considered to be the more traditional “fundamental nationalist glorification of country.”[1] Zinn portrays a side of American history that can largely be seen as the exploitation and manipulation of the majority by rigged systems that hugely favor a small aggregate of elite rulers from across the orthodox political parties.”

    Colonel Klink (335e06)

  142. Just noticed this, some things never change.

    While Obama criticized Trump today, he “referred to himself 102 times.”

    harkin (c7ccf8)

  143. You sound just like him. Different cult, same idea.

    If y’all live for 1000 years you will still never grasp how desperate and pathetic you sound. It’s about what gets done not about who does it.

    JSkorcher (c44b69)

  144. As long as it’s your cult, it’s good, right?

    DRJ (15874d)

  145. #146, Dave, only after some crazy Chicago pervert community organizer with a slippery background tried to fundamentally transform America from the Land of the Free and Home of the Brave to a Socialist sh!thole with a sinking economy, no jobs, high taxes, a shrinking middle class, afraid to stand up to bullies, dependent on food stamps, forced to buy useless ObamaCare, misuse spy agencies to survail political opponents, send Billions in unmarked cash to Islamic terrorists, etc., etc., etc.

    ropelight (5136f2)

  146. ropelight, I am not playing mean. You sound like Obama.

    DRJ (15874d)

  147. Ms. Bash shouldn’t be sitting behind Mr. Kavanaugh anymore. The nominee doesn’t need that kind of distraction. There’s already too much racist s**t floating around Trump’s orbit.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  148. Easy for pots to point fingers and call kettles names, but what about your cult, DRJ? #NeverTrump much?

    ropelight (5136f2)

  149. If y’all live for 1000 years you will still never grasp how desperate and pathetic you sound. It’s about what gets done not about who does it.

    JSkorcher (c44b69) — 9/7/2018 @ 4:25 pm

    America is about how things get done, not just who and what. Dictatorships “get things done” but that doesn’t make a dictatorship a good government choice.

    DRJ (15874d)

  150. As I’ve said over and over again, I voted for Trump, ropelight, so I can’t be NeverTrump. I want him to do what he promised, not act like the jerk he was in the campaign.

    DRJ (15874d)

  151. Just noticed this, some things never change.

    While Obama criticized Trump today, he “referred to himself 102 times.”

    Mmmhmm….

    “Donald Trump is such a narcissist that Barack Obama looks at him and says, ‘Dude, what’s your problem?’ ”
    – Ted Cruz

    Dave (01fd6f)

  152. Trump:

    You might have noticed something different about Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump lately.

    His Tuesday night victory speech at Trump Tower in New York City was brief, relatively subdued, and relatively on-message. The roughly ten-minute speech was a far, far cry from the night in March when he celebrated primary wins by hawking Trump steaks, Trump wine and threw a Trump magazine into the crowd of supporters who had gathered at his lush Mar-a-lago resort in Florida.

    According to a series of interviews Trump has given in recent days, the speech was part of a broader pivot to a more, well, traditional presidential campaign. “The campaign is evolving and transitioning, and so am I,” he told the Wall Street Journal. “I’ll be more effective and more disciplined.”

    Trump put it another way during a Thursday morning appearance on NBC’s Today Show. “I will be so presidential,” he said, “you will be so bored. You’ll say, ‘Can’t he have a little more energy?'”

    DRJ (15874d)

  153. That was April 2016.

    DRJ (15874d)

  154. So much for an effective, disciplined President. He prefers selling himself.

    DRJ (15874d)

  155. Better than selling Russians nuclear fuel, DRJ.

    mg (8cbc69)

  156. “I don’t assert that my interpretation must be right and anyone who disagrees is an idiot. But anyone who thinks my argument is so ridiculous that it can be easily dismissed is either tribal or has not considered my argument seriously enough.”

    Mr. Patterico, what you just posted is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent collection of footnotes were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this comments section is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

    BUT SERIOUSLY:

    I have considered your arguments seriously and concluded that they’re in extremely common use by Extremely Online lefists and hashtag resistors and no one else. and can thus be safely ignored as the sort of slop for the rubes that they have as little shame in putting out as Jim Hoft does any particular blogpost. They should not make their way onto what purports to be a serious blog by a serious journalist except to mock and move on.

    Your supporting evidence is also extremely thin-NONE of the real people pictured actually describe themselves as white nationalist (or even alt-right) nowadays, and the notion that the OK symbol is right now, at this moment, way past 2016 and Richard Spencer’s relevance, a commonly used alt-right symbol.

    This is why the entire comment section is dismissing your poorly sourced and poorly reasoned arguments with prejudice. Throwing out the “it’s not me that’s crazy, it’s all these willing dupes calling me crazy!’ card won’t help.

    “lol at the notion that *I* am the one who needs to seek help, with Trunp’s patently insane antics on display day after day.”

    Trump creates as much chaos as he can so he can push his agenda through with minimal attention from a media he hates and who hates him. This may or may not be advisable, but ‘insane’ is definitely a bit strong a word to use. Have you considered using words in more common usage, or that may describe reality more accurately to a wider audience than yourself and whoever still follows Ben Shapiro?

    Billy Madison's Proctor (e3e022)

  157. As for the questioning in today’s hearing, Cage did a poor job on Kavanaugh.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  158. Better than selling Russians nuclear fuel, DRJ.

    Why is it better?

    Did they move the uranium mine to Russia?

    Are you in favor of more government control over what Americans can do with their private property?

    Dave (445e97)

  159. As long as it’s your cult, it’s good, right?

    Back atcha. Maybe not cults per se, but sclerosis in thinking, same difference.

    JSkorcher (c44b69)

  160. Coffee boy is costing the taxpayer $700,000.00/day doing time.
    r u effing kidding

    mg (8cbc69)

  161. r u effing kidding

    No, but you’re repeating a lie that only a fool could believe.

    Dave (445e97)

  162. Anyone seen Paul Ryan?

    sickofrinos (8cbc69)

  163. Patterico blogs about what he wants to talk about, and your response is “Get a life.” Patterico and I want to discuss differences, not shut up people who express differences. And we certainly wouldn’t tell them it’s a compliment to say that.

    DRJ (15874d)

  164. Two small boys, not yet old enough to be in school, were overheard talking at the zoo one day. “My name is Billy. What’s yours?” asked the first boy. “Tommy,” replied the second. “My Daddy’s an accountant. What does your Daddy do for a living?” asked Billy. Tommy replied, “My Daddy’s a lawyer.” “Honest?” asked Billy. “No, just the regular kind”, replied Tommy.

    sickofrinos (8cbc69)

  165. sickofrinos (8cbc69) — 9/7/2018 @ 5:22 pm

    Another un-American bigot who judges people by the group they belong to rather than their individual character.

    Dave (445e97)

  166. another $20,000.00 million and Mueller can poach Mr. Stone.

    sickofrinos (8cbc69)

  167. #100, Patterico, taking your argument seriously, or giving it a fair hearing, might be more likely if you didn’t have a long record of assuming the worst about Trump’s character and motivations. The credibility of your speculations has been tainted by your record of kneejerk hostile assumptions.

    You have built up goodwill over time but you’re threatening to lose that, ropelight. Saying I have a lack of credibility, as opposed to saying you disagree with me, is not a smart way to go. I’m going to respond to you in this comment with the contempt you earned by making yours. Specifically: I already responded to this stupid argument from you before. To my knowledge, you never responded. I see no reason to write the same thing again in different words, so I’ll repeat my utter destruction of your inane charge, word for word. Don’t ever say this about me again without first responding to this argument that I already made:

    I often see accusations of this type: that I am “biased” against Trump. That’s a fairly ridiculous claim, in my view. My view of Trump is based on observation of his public conduct over a long period of time. Based on that, I have formed an extraordinarily negative opinion of him. Is this “bias”? That would be like saying a jury was “biased” against a defendant based on the overwhelming evidence of his guilt.

    “Bias” *should* be used to describe a pre-existig animus against a person, based not on his conduct but on some characteristic unrelated to the judgment that one is making about the individual. If you know that a person dresses unfashionably, and you’re being asked to determine whether he ran a traffic light, his lack of fashion sense should have no effect on your judgment — and if his lack of fashion sense offends you so much that you want to rule against him on unrelated issues, you are biased. But if you are presented with evidence that he routinely runs traffic lights, that might be relevant to the question. Similarly, a judgment about a particular characteristic of a person such as his morality, based on evidence of his poor morality, is not bias.

    Now: having formed an unbiased opinion about Trump’s honesty and character, do those judgments sometimes factor into my analysis of news stories? For sure — in particular stories that require me to judge a claim by Trump against a claim by someone else with a better track record for honesty (which is almost everyone) — but that also is not evidence of “bias.” Again analogizing to a trial, if you are given unmistakable evidence that a witness is commonly dishonest, it is not “bias” to use that information as part of your judgment as to his honesty in a different context. The witness could end up being honest in his current testimony — and I have seen that happen many times — but you’re going to want a lot of corroboration before you trust that witness’s current testimony.

    So these accusations of “bias” are silly.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  168. The scene is the darkest jungle in Africa. Two tigers are stalking through the jungle when the one in the rear suddenly reaches out with his tongue and licks the butt of the one in front. The lead tiger turns and says, “Hey, cut it out, alright.” The other tiger says sorry and they continue on their way.

    After about five minutes the rear tiger suddenly repeats his action. The front tiger turns angrily and says,” I said don’t do that again!” The rear tiger says “sorry” again and they continue.

    After about another five minutes, the rear tiger repeats his action. The front tiger turns and says, “What is it with you, anyway? I said to stop.” The rear tiger says, “I really am sorry but I just ate a lawyer and I’m just trying to get the taste out of my mouth.”

    sickofrinos (8cbc69)


  169. America is about how things get done, not just who and what. Dictatorships “get things done” but that doesn’t make a dictatorship a good government choice.

    Yes. We are so dangerously close to a dictatorship. Nothing close to this since the personality cult of Ronald Reagan. Remember him and how such a dumb dumb dumb dummy he was. All the smart people said so. Lincoln too. Funny how these things go.

    JSkorcher (c44b69)

  170. Your supporting evidence is also extremely thin-NONE of the real people pictured actually describe themselves as white nationalist (or even alt-right) nowadays, and the notion that the OK symbol is right now, at this moment, way past 2016 and Richard Spencer’s relevance, a commonly used alt-right symbol.

    We’re really going to do this? OK, let’s do this.

    Milo sang karaoke to a group of white nationalists including Richard Spencer, who gave him Nazi salutes as he sang.

    So Posobiec and Cernovich and Wintrich and that nasty crowd don’t describe themselves as alr right “nowadays.” Yippee. Do you deny that they were all enthusiastic alt-righters until they got a taste of respectability and realized how badly Richard Spencer was hurting the reputation of the alt-right label they loved so much? NOW tell me when these photos were taken. Hint: not last week. So take your slippery distinction and cram it.

    I showed in the post and the old post about Hoft the connection between the symbol, Pepe the frog, and Nazism. This is undeniable and someone like you who denies it is trying to mislead my readers. And I don’t appreciate that.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  171. Incidentally, “Billy Madison’s Proctor” is Steppe Nomad. I don’t allow sock puppets here, so I am banning the IP address. BUH BYE Steppe Nomad.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  172. This comment has more words but still no argument.

    See, perhaps this is the problem. Do you put everything in the context of an argument? Why do you think I need to prove something here? I don’t have to prove anything. It’s just a suggestion. A thought. A riff, possibly.
    This is a blog, not a court of law, right? It’s not like I’m fixing to call the white truck people and they’ll be coming to take you away…ha-ha?

    So you not only admit that you bring nothing to the table, you boast about it.

    If you aren’t going to offer real discussion in the form of interesting arguments, facts, and evidence, then I will ignore you from here on out except to mock you when I feel like it.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  173. GesTrumpo at work:

    ‘Man in plaid’ at Montana rally last evening removed from behind Trump for rolling eyes and mouthing, ‘Whattt?!?’ in disbelief over insane boastings by Babbler In Chief in rambling, fragmented gibberish. Later two women were ‘replaced’ as well for similar Trumpgressions.

    Alles ist in ordnung, eh Captain, sir.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  174. We are so dangerously close to a dictatorship.

    Are you kidding? Merv frigging Griffin took him to the woodshed and didn’t have to buy a vowel to do it. Dollars to doughnuts he can’t even say it, let alone be it.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  175. I don’t allow sock puppets here

    Fair warning, mg.

    I don’t think you’re a dick like Steppe Nomad, so I’ll give you a warning. But stick with mg and dump the sickofrinos handle. One consistent handle please.

    (Anyone who wants to control-F 8cbc69 will see what I mean.)

    This thread is nasty and bringing out sock puppeteers.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  176. Patterico, I’ll make 2 quick points now and promise a more complete response tomorrow. It’s after 9pm here in SW Florida and I’ve already had 2 stiff drinks. Indulge me, please, as both points are easily misunderstood.

    It’s not splitting hairs to point out that I made reference to The credibility of your speculations… not to you as an individual. It’s a fine point, I know, but one I was careful to make knowing how prickly you are about challenges to your integrity. Which was never in doubt, and certainly not by me, I hold you in high regard, and have for a good many years.

    Additionally, my comment, linked at #176 above addresses prejudice, not bias. I used the former to indicate pre-judgment so as to avoid the implication of animosity inherent in an accusation of bias. Again, it’s a fine point, but one I’m willing to defend.

    PS: You are correct, I did duck the argument you made on 9/3. I intended to respond but clouds got in my way.

    ropelight (5136f2)

  177. ropelight,

    I don’t see how the argument is different if you substitute the word “prejudice” for “bias.” The true distinction is the one I made in my comment: judging someone based on the available evidence about them (as I have done with Trump) vs. judging them unfairly based on an unrelated animus of some sort (which is what you have inaccurately accused me of doing). The one is not the other.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  178. I arrived here sickofrinos years ago. Fair warning – understood.
    I am still sick of rinos.

    mg (8cbc69)

  179. A first grader’s teacher calls the child’s father and tells him it is urgent that he come to the school for a conference about his daughter.

    He goes, wondering what it’s all about and the teacher tells him: “Mr. Smith, yesterday we asked all the children what kind of job their fathers had and your daughter said ‘My daddy plays piano in a w**rehouse’. That was unexpected, to say the least.”

    And the father says: “Actually, I’m a lawyer. But how do you explain that to a six-year old girl?”

    nk (dbc370)

  180. good one, nk.

    mg (8cbc69)

  181. The scene is the darkest jungle in Africa. Two tigers are stalking through the jungle…
    Now you know thats BS. There are no tigers in Africa…well, except for the zoos..

    …then I will ignore you from here on out and… yadda, yadda, something. You have no idea how much this hurts my feelings. One last suggestion, which I doubt you will take seriously but wth…have you considered not taking yourself so seriously? It’s not healthy.

    Skorcher (db89ee)

  182. I’m not giving up the OK symbol to anyone let alone hysterics, of whom I have lately seen too many.

    I have signaled ok many times in my life without ever having meant shut up you screaming ninnies but I might start.

    SarahW (3164f0)

  183. Skorcher seems upset.

    DRJ (15874d)

  184. I’m not giving up the OK symbol to anyone

    Yay.

    I’m giving up on the thumbs up, but if I were an Insane in court I would not give a witness a thumbs up. (See my comment at 75.) In other words: CONTEXT.

    The fact that the judge was ready to remove a defendant from a hearing for giving the thumbs up doesn’t mean SARAHW HAS TO GIVE UP THE THUMBS UP!!!!1!! It means pay attention to context.

    The context of her doing this on Day Two was having her husband rage on Twitter the night before that she was being misinterpreted, together with no innocent explanation (the explanations I hear include that she was responding to a text with a gesture made on nationwide TV). So you have to ask yourself: what the hell was she doing?

    And the answer is clear: at a minimum, she was trolling. At a minimum.

    And that, for the 40th time, was disrespectful to Kavanaugh.

    Nobody is trying to make you give up your precious OK sign. I won’t either. But if I ever pose at the White House lectern I won’t flash it then.

    All you’re being asked to do is consider the context.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  185. yadda, yadda, something. You have no idea how much this hurts my feelings. One last suggestion, which I doubt you will take seriously but wth…have you considered not taking yourself so seriously? It’s not healthy.

    I’ve considered not taking YOU seriously, ever again. And decided, after considering that possibility, to run with it.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  186. THAT JUDGE TOOK AWAY MY THUMBS UP

    Patterico (115b1f)

  187. Skorcher seems upset.

    DRJ projecting again. Lighten up, Francis.

    I’ve considered not taking YOU… something something something. Again my hurts. My hurts my hurts my hurts. Closing in on 200 comments about how someone rests their hands. If you didn’t make such a big deal about it, it wouldn’t matter. They’re in your head. Your friends won’t tell you, your enemies will only encourage you.

    Skorcher (db89ee)

  188. I like Stripes and Sergeant Hulka could tell you are upset.

    DRJ (15874d)

  189. You’d think anyone *seriously* believing using the A-0K sign was a “white nationalist” would be consigned to a loony bin

    But evidently not. Instead, in 2018, we’re supposed to believe millions of underground Neo-nazis are Secretly flashing “White Power” signs until proven otherwise.

    Anyway, glad someone did A LOT of research to prove the person didn’t do it. But what if she wasn’t descended from Holocaust Survivors but was just an average American? What then? A show trial?

    rcocean (1a839e)

  190. Why is this a big deal to you? Do you go to all the blogs that write about this topic or just this one, and if just this one — why?

    DRJ (15874d)

  191. Anybody who feels a need to point out that there are no talking tigers who eat lawyers and lick butts in Africa, in response to a joke, cannot be taken seriously. What a dork!

    nk (dbc370)

  192. We are so dangerously close to a dictatorship. Nothing close to this since the personality cult of Ronald Reagan.

    I’m going to assume that you weren’t an adult when Reagan was president because, to be charitable, I’d rather believe your comment was made out of ignorance instead of blatant stupidity.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  193. It’s weird to care what someone blogs about on his own blog.

    DRJ (15874d)

  194. Anybody who feels a need to point out that there are no talking tigers who eat lawyers and lick butts in Africa, in response to a joke, cannot be taken seriously. What a dork!
    Good god, that’s precious. Gotta admit I’m a bit confused. Now at this point am I trolling you or are you trolling me? I’ve often suspected but ….hmmm….you are a parody, aren’t you?

    Skorcher (db89ee)

  195. BUH BYE Steppe Nomad.

    Probably a good thing. The guy’s an effing neo-Nazi.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  196. It reminds me of Trump. He can’t articulate details to win on substance so he insults people to shut down debate, and now his supporters do the same.

    DRJ (15874d)

  197. I’m going to assume that you weren’t an adult when Reagan was president because, to be charitable, I’d rather believe your comment was made out of ignorance instead of blatant stupidity.

    Seriously? That’s what you take from my comments? You do know what happens when you assume, yes? Y’all are denser than I thought. Oh I get it. Y’all are really pro-Trump and this is some reverse psyops game. The whole thing is a parody. Well played, well played. I tip my hat and off to bed…

    Skorcher (db89ee)

  198. I think my anger is being expected to give up a world where everything isn’t stupid. If she was trolling then, badly done Emma, I wouldn’t have because it is plain bad manners the hearings aren’t for her. ANd yet do you catch yourself saying in serious tones that ok signs are now an alt right symbol because there are suckers in the world who fall for 4chan pranks and people,in the world willing to troll them for it? I don’t feel like putting up with or oblighted to humor these nimnuts yelling at the moon anymore. I fact I hope they all do a belushi backflip into hell.

    SarahW (3164f0)

  199. That’s what you take from my comments?

    Actually, I apologize. I blame the 2nd glass of scotch.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  200. ANd yet do you catch yourself saying in serious tones that ok signs are now an alt right symbol because there are suckers in the world who fall for 4chan pranks and people,in the world willing to troll them for it?

    No. I think, “If I get a chance to help someone I believe in, I hope I have more sense than to act like a troll just because I know people are watching.”

    DRJ (15874d)

  201. But if she does like Kavanaugh, how does this make sense? Is she concentrating so hard on not doing anything wrong with her hands that … she does the exact same hand gesture again?

    DRJ (15874d)

  202. I’m going to assume that you weren’t an adult when Reagan was president because, to be charitable, I’d rather believe your comment was made out of ignorance instead of blatant stupidity… Actually, I apologize. I blame the 2nd glass of scotch.

    http://www.ronaldreaganlegacyproject.org

    There are fanatics. But why waste a blame on the booze: blame Reagan; he’s dead.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  203. It’s not like you are wrong, DRJ, but I e got freak out fatigue and don’t care if she put people,stupidly accusing her of Nazi war crimes yesterday being out of humor. https://goo.gl/images/5YVC8n

    SarahW (3164f0)

  204. @198 Rcocean

    “You’d think anyone *seriously* believing using the A-0K sign was a “white nationalist” would be consigned to a loony bin”

    It’s a good thing nobody in this thread believes that, then.

    Davethulhu (fddbc4)

  205. There are fanatics. But why waste a blame on the booze: blame Reagan; he’s dead.

    Nah, I read it wrong, because I didn’t read the following of what he said closely enough: “Remember him and how such a dumb dumb dumb dummy he was. All the smart people said so. Lincoln too. Funny how these things go.” I’m on opposite sides of Skorcher when it comes to Trump, but when you read something wrong…

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  206. The biggest irony here, to me, is to see comments from people who don’t like lawyers and/or don’t like the posting choices by Patterico (a lawyer), even though he likes Trump’s SCOTUS nominee but is concerned the nominee is being hurt by actions of his former law clerk (a Harvard Law lawyer). IOW this post is primarily about lawyers — and it doesn’t make lawyers look good — and it shows concern for how this might affect Trump’s nominee. Patterico made that clear here:


    But here’s the thing. Regardless of whether it was an accident the first time or not, and regardless of whether she was unfairly attacked on Day One, doing this on Day Two is absurd.

    It is, at a minimum, extraordinarily immature, and disrespectful to Kavanaugh — who is, by all accounts, a decent man and a great judge, and who does not deserve this distraction. By Day Two she knows that much of the country sees this symbol, in this context, as an alt right symbol at a minimum, if not a white power symbol. So she sits behind her former employer and deliberately flashes the symbol … to troll the libs??

    If I were Kavanaugh, I would be appalled. And I would ask her not to come back on Day Three.

    I think that section is the point of his post, and good advice to help Kavanaugh and Trump.

    But my guess is some people want everyone to act like it never happened because it might hurt Trump, and the First Rule of Supporting Trump is ignore anything that might hurt Trump.

    DRJ (15874d)

  207. Plus, some want to enjoy the trolling that we should all ignore.

    DRJ (15874d)

  208. BTW, French breaks down the smears on Kavanaugh, leaving aside Bash and so-called rebuffed handshakes and the brainless Harris/Booker Show.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  209. Goodbye.

    gwjd (032bef)

  210. Just saw a post in moderation from “Mitch” which ends/

    Goodbye, you piece of shit.

    I reviewed his history and he has always been a jerk. I will not miss him.

    Patterico (9aff24)

  211. gwjd, on the other hand, had been around a long time and seemed sensible.

    I guess he or she thinks Zina’s trolling was awesome and I am unbearable for saying it was immature.

    OK. Bye yourself. Who else? As Cory Booker says: bring it. I violated the rules of ignoring bad beavior by a Trumper andnI’m prepared to pay the price. No, I violated the rules! I violated them!!!

    Patterico (9aff24)

  212. The worse Trump gets, the happier I am to see his fans leave my blog.

    And he is getting worse.

    Patterico (9aff24)

  213. Something has him spooked. He is now talking about impeachment.

    nk (dbc370)

  214. The worse Trump gets, the happier I am to see his fans leave my blog.
    And he is getting worse.

    I do wish it were possible for the people who disagree with you to do so civilly and intelligently.

    But it can’t be a coincidence that 99% of the Trump supporters are profane, nasty and immature – and that they revel in being all those things.

    Meanwhile, there have only been one or two Trump opponents here who descend to the same level of inter-personal toxicity against other commenters (and one of them, Ben Burn, was a flaming lefty, so not really a relevant analog to those who tend to agree with Patterico). None of them are active right now.

    Dave (445e97)

  215. The context of her doing this on Day Two was having her husband rage on Twitter the night before that she was being misinterpreted, together with no innocent explanation (the explanations I hear include that she was responding to a text with a gesture made on nationwide TV). So you have to ask yourself: what the hell was she doing?

    And the answer is clear: at a minimum, she was trolling. At a minimum.

    And that, for the 40th time, was disrespectful to Kavanaugh.

    I would also suggest it’s disrespectful to her husband. He came out strongly defending her, and yet she does it again. She had to kno he stood up for her, so why continue doing this and throw it in his face ? Disrespectful to Kavanagh, and disrespectful to her husband. She does not seem like a very nice person, or straight-up individual .

    Dana (023079)

  216. Something has him spooked. He is now talking about impeachment.

    He’s manipulating his cultists by playing up the threat to himself.

    A rally or two ago he said that if the Democrats won the House, they would lose the hard-won (by him, of course) right to say “Merry Christmas”.

    The other night at his rally in MT, he referred to himself as “your favorite president of all time”…

    Dave (445e97)

  217. I’m assuming she’s grown tired of law and wants to be fired in a high profile way so that she can become a Fox News talking head.

    Weird behaviour otherwise, especially in an age where this stuff can follow you round forever.

    Bob (f2f128)

  218. How do these elitist people in the courtroom get by? Hard working tax-payers don’t give a crap about a stupid interpretation of what an ok sign means to them. Now if she was sitting next to a frog, one could say she likes frog legs. How about macing the protesters, now that would be productive. Or how about someone write about Soros and the payments to these insufferable pricks. Why does Soros get a break everyday from notrumpers and their leftist followers? Democrats in that courtroom are a disgrace to the American way.

    mg (8cbc69)

  219. Zina Bash worked for Trump for a year, and her husband was in Trump’s Solicitor General’s office until Trump appointed him to be a US Attorney. Now they live in Austin and Zina works in Paxton’s office, probably through Cruz. She also went to Wharton in addition to Harvard. She knows Trump. Is this his little diversion?

    DRJ (15874d)

  220. If this is intentional on her part, it is in the same vein as Melania wearing that jacket that read “I REALLY DON’T CARE. DO U?” when she went to visit the children detained at the border. In other words, only the devil knows why she did it.

    [Insert further remarks containing the words “women”, “whims”, and “rational thought”, here. “B!tches” and “ditzes” only with permission of blog host.]

    nk (dbc370)

  221. I sound like a conspiracy theorist but I can’t stop this nagging feeling that Trump will muck up even the good things in his Administration because he wants to control the story of the day.

    DRJ (15874d)

  222. It’s not conspiracy theory that Trump’s judicial appointments are not what he wants but what the Heritage Foundation and Don McGahn want.

    nk (dbc370)

  223. McGahn has been sitting behind Kavanaugh since the first Zina Event. It’s not a good use of his time but I don’t blame him, given that Kavanaugh’s nomination may be McGahn’s last accomplishment.

    DRJ (46c88f)

  224. R.I.P. Bill Daily, tv sidekick on I Dream of Jeannie and The Bob Newhart Show

    Icy (cebaac)

  225. I would also suggest it’s disrespectful to her husband. He came out strongly defending her, and yet she does it again. She had to kno he stood up for her, so why continue doing this and throw it in his face ? Disrespectful to Kavanagh, and disrespectful to her husband. She does not seem like a very nice person, or straight-up individual .

    I agree.

    For this opinion, gwjd and CayleyGraph (see comments at The Jury) have decided I am so insane that they must leave.

    It’s hard to believe that my expression of this straightforward opinion is the only reason, so I’m sure they’re also taken in by the general feeling, seemingly everywhere on the right, that anyone who often opposes Trump is perforce some kind of leftist.

    There is insanity in the air. It gets worse as the odds of his impeachment seems to increase, with every corrupt and/or crazy action he takes.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  226. I mean “Mitch” too — but the departure of “Mitch” (a jerk) makes me happy.

    I sometimes wonder what the point of blogging as a conservative in the era of Trump actually is.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  227. Weird times commentwise, Patrick, but it’s way worse at Instapundit. The other day, a guy told me there was nothing wrong with White Nationalism. But there does seem to be a pattern among the harder-core Trumpalistas.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  228. You know what it takes to make most Republicans happy in the Trump era: At the least, don’t question anything Trump says or does. At best, find ways to spin it so Trump appears brilliant and in control. And constantly attack Trump critics.

    In other words, be Ace or Schlicter or Instapundit. You could have always done that, but it isn’t what you believe.

    DRJ (15874d)

  229. But if you want conservatives to read and discuss, then I think you should do exactly what you are doing: Call them as you see them.

    DRJ (15874d)

  230. Rodney Dangerfield Gets One of These 👌 (1982)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YYnz2-bsJo

    Neo (d1c681)

  231. IOW, it’s all contextual — and the context you have (uncharacteristically for you) ignored is the flap about all this on Day One, and the way that dishonest alt righters and their fans (including some on this thread) bat their eyelashes innocently and use the “it’s just an OK symbol!” defense.

    – Patterico

    I don’t think I’m ignoring the context, I’m just trying not to assume too much about this woman.

    You have to be otherwise identifiable as a member of the Insanes for your thumbs-up to be a gang sign. Is she automatically identifiable as a member of the alt-right? If she was in one of those photos, standing next to cernovich or Hoft, I would be agreeing with you. But I think it would be unfair of me to assume that she had any affinity for those morons without seeing more evidence of it.

    Leviticus (75b2f1)

  232. I am not at all disputing that the OK sign has been adopted as an alt-right symbol and that when used in that context it has overtones of white supremacy. Not am I disputing that such a usage in this context would be alarming, nor am I disputing that this is a topic worthy of discussion.

    All I am saying is that I don’t see sufficient context indicating that she is part of the Insanes, so to speak.

    Leviticus (75b2f1)

  233. That isn’t what I understand Patterico to mean by context. We don’t have to believe she has any sympathy or belief in the alt-right to wonder why she would knowingly and deliberately repeat the gesture at Kavanaugh’s hearing, knowing that it originally provoked a dramatic response in the news and from her own husband. Who taunts the bull with a second red flag, other than Trump?

    DRJ (15874d)

  234. And why do something that might irritate the Committee during Kavanaugh’s hearings? It seems like a dangerous thing for an attorney to do unless she craves attention or someone suggested it.

    DRJ (15874d)

  235. Someone who makes the symbol automatically and mindlessly, frequently, as part of their day-to-day communication.

    I should say: I use this symbol in my day to day communication fairly frequently. I suppose I was vaguely aware of the Pepe usage and the alt-right adoption, but I don’t care – those people are morons, and my policy is to ignore them. Learning that they used the OK sign as an alt-right gang-sign isn’t going to affect my usage of what I deem to be a serviceable gesture anymore than learning that Insanes use the thumbs-up as a gang sign.

    I could see this woman having a similar policy.

    Leviticus (75b2f1)

  236. And just because the media has a flap about me doesn’t automatically incline me to change any of my own behaviors.

    Leviticus (75b2f1)

  237. I understand but, tell me, if you were in court and doing that gesture was a distraction on the first day of trial, would you repeat it the next day — just to show the judge and jury that you are your own man? Or would you decide that it isn’t worth the slightest chance it might harm your client’s case?

    By all means, make any gesture you want in your daily life, but this second time doesn’t make sense.

    DRJ (15874d)

  238. Leviticus,

    I don’t have any evidence of her being an alt righter either. It is not my contention that she is a member of the alt right (I can’t rule it out but I have no particular evidence to rule it in). It is my contention that she was, at a minimum, trolling — certainly on the second day, and possibly (although we really don’t know) on the first.

    Since we really don’t know about the first day, let’s concentrate on the second. Do you really think she had no discussion with her husband about the angry tweets he put out on Day One? Of course she did. So she was quite aware on Day Two that 1) many people had accused her of making an alt right symbol the day before, 2) many people take that particular gesture as being an alt right symbol when used in a politically charged context like photos at the White House or televised appearances behind a Supreme Court nominee, and 3) her husband at a minimum was very upset that anyone would think she would ever make the gesture.

    And then she does it, quite pointedly, on Day Two.

    The responses range from “it was a totally innocent use of the OK sign!!” to “what a masterful troll!!!” The problem with the former interpretation is that I can’t figure out who she was signaling. Honestly, I have people saying she was responding to a text (?!). By making a symbol to be viewed on nationwide television. I think the former defense is a yuuuuge stretch. The later defense, I think l, properly identifies her behavior as a troll, but praises it. I say: a) if she is an obvious troll on Day Two, is it so crazy to think she could have been trolling on Day One? and b) far more importantly, regardless of what she was doing on Day One, trolling like that on Day Two is every kind of immature and stupid you can possibly imagine.

    The one thing that both defenses have in common: “Patterico is completely 100% insane for noticing this and commenting on it and I will never read his blog again!!!”

    I think it gives people a profound sense of satisfaction to declare that I have Finally Gone Crazy over Trump, and the need to express that view in self-righteous terms overrides any discussion of just what in the hell she was doing on Day Two.

    The one question I would ask any skeptic of my position is this: do you think she discussed this with her husband on the evening of Day One? If so, how did that discussion go?

    And if your answer is: “Yes, and they decided to have her troll the Resistance which is awesome” then ask yourself how Judge Kavanaugh will likely view such a plan. Do you think he would laugh and applaud, or be annoyed and feel disrespected?

    This isn’t as hard as people are making it. It really isn’t.

    Patterico (9aff24)

  239. Honestly, this isn’t worth the energy I am expending on it. The only reason I am is that I have multiple people, including otherwise sensible people who have read the blog for years, declaring that I have Finally Gone off the Deep End and have become Mr. Resistance Leftist, and therefore they are leaving forever.

    And because I think my position is not only non-ridiculous, but very difficult to dispute, I am digging in my heels and defending it.

    And since you, Leviticus, are sensible (although not threatening to leave), it is important to me to have this discussion, because I am wondering how these other people can so badly misunderstand what I am saying as to label it crazy when I think it’s totally sensible. Have they just been waiting to tell me off because they hate the fact that I dislike Trump? (If so, good riddance.) Or is there some fundamental and deep misunderstanding of what I have said here?

    So far, of the people I respect the most, just about everyone who has weighed in seems to understand my point and agree. But oh my! the people who don’t agree are upset.

    Patterico (9aff24)

  240. If you have ever tried to dissuade someone who constantly uses/overuses/missuses the word “like” in their speech, you would fully understand the point of the 244 by Leviticus. If there was a video history of this lady gestures similar to Obama’s use of the middle finger, there may be more to go on. We would get a sense of whether it was deliberate or not.

    Right now it looks is if it is day two of speech correction for someone who overused “like” for 30 years.

    BuDuh (fc15db)

  241. To be clear:

    “I have multiple people, including otherwise sensible people who have read the blog for years, declaring that I have Finally Gone off the Deep End and have become Mr. Resistance Leftist, and therefore they are leaving forever.”

    I am definitely not one of those people. I think your position is perfectly reasonable, just not indisputable, and I happen to have a different position.

    “The one thing that both defenses have in common: “Patterico is completely 100% insane for noticing this and commenting on it and I will never read his blog again!!!”

    I definitely do not think this. Again: I think your position is perfectly reasonable, just not indisputable, and I happen to have a different position.

    Leviticus (75b2f1)

  242. I understand but, tell me, if you were in court and doing that gesture was a distraction on the first day of trial, would you repeat it the next day — just to show the judge and jury that you are your own man? Or would you decide that it isn’t worth the slightest chance it might harm your client’s case?

    Part of this seems to go back to the old “intentionalism” debates. IOW, if I’m a lawyer in the Insanes preliminary hearing and I might normally give a thumbs up (say the clerk asked me a question during a break and my normal inclination would be to answer affirmatively by giving a thumbs up) then By God I Will Do What I Would Have Done Anyway even if I am in a crowded courtroom and know that a sizable portion of the audience might interpret my gesture as mocking the gang member sitting in the defense seat. Because intentionalism.

    I don’t think that’s how real life works. You have to be sensitive to how people interpret what you say. I know from long experience that this is a very unpopular position among conservatives. I still think it’s right.

    Patterico (9aff24)

  243. I see that point, BuDuh but her job at the nomination hearing is to sit there and look interested and supportive. She knows she is on TV and people are watching. She knows that hand gesture caused a problem on Day One. Isn’t avoiding that gesture the one thing she would be sure to do?

    DRJ (15874d)

  244. BuDuh and Leviticus,

    Whom was she signaling, in your opinion? Someone at home watching TV? A staffer behind the Senators? Let’s get a specific theory and then I have follow-up questions. The follow-up questions should be obvious so feel free to address them too.

    Patterico (9aff24)

  245. Let’s not skip over the first day, because the first day is the context for the second day:

    Was the media kerfuffle on the first day reasonable? Assuming the only context for the “gesture” on the first day (if it was one) was the general usage of the OK symbol by various alt-right idiots, I think it’s fair to say that reasonable minds could differ as to whether the media kerfuffle on the first day was reasonable.

    If one believed that the media kerfuffle on the first day was not reasonable, then one might be disinclined to change one’s normal behavior in response to what one perceived to be unreasonable pressure.

    You are making reasonable points, Patterico, in response to considerable and unreasonable pressure to change your behavior. You are pointedly refusing to change your behavior in response to what you perceive to be unreasonable pressure.

    Is it so hard to imagine that she felt herself to be in a similar position?

    Leviticus (75b2f1)

  246. But, you know what, if she can’t stop her hand gestures while sitting quietly in a hearing room, then Patterico is right again. She should not be in that hearing room again and, if she is, then the Trump Administration wants her to be there and doesn’t care if she does that gesture.

    DRJ (15874d)

  247. I have no idea who she was signaling, but it seems very clear to me from her eyes and body language that she is signaling somebody in the room in response to a text she just received on her phone.

    Happy to respond to follow-up questions.

    Leviticus (75b2f1)

  248. It doesn’t matter if the first day response was reasonable. What matters is Kavanaugh’s hearing, not whether Zina Bash can stand up to the media and the online community.

    I go back to my trial example. Would you repeat a gesture that disrupted a trial just because you want to show people you disagree with them, even if it could hurt your client?

    DRJ (15874d)

  249. I will add one other piece of personal context that is personally important for me: these hearings have been a f*cking joke and an embarrassment from every angle.

    Leviticus (75b2f1)

  250. “It doesn’t matter if the first day response was reasonable. What matters is Kavanaugh’s hearing, not whether Zina Bash can stand up to the media and the online community.”

    – DRJ

    I agree, but might the benefit of the doubt, taking all these things into consideration, indicate that this was just an automatic mindless gesture, the product of an ingrained and reflexive habit?

    People have such gestures in their repertoires.

    Leviticus (75b2f1)

  251. Is there a more complete video, Patrick? I hate to commit to what or whom she was signaling on the short clip provided.

    I would lean towards her acknowledging whomever was to her right or what ever was said in her right ear. Possibly an ear bud? My Italian mom ran a professional secretarial service in the 70s. Her hands were always gesturing while on phone calls. She could never stop the motions.

    BuDuh (fc15db)

  252. I have no idea who she was signaling, but it seems very clear to me from her eyes and body language that she is signaling somebody in the room in response to a text she just received on her phone.

    Happy to respond to follow-up questions.

    Does it seem plausible that the text she was responding to was sent by a different person than she the person she was signaling to? If so, please explain to me how.

    Patterico (9aff24)

  253. I am happy to cede the point that she should not be in the room, because I believe that bearing front-row witness to such an ugly farce is an act of immoral complicity in its own right.

    She should be ashamed of herself, I agree – but for very different reasons than I’ve seen argued here.

    Leviticus (75b2f1)

  254. “Does it seem plausible that the text she was responding to was sent by a different person than she the person she was signaling to? If so, please explain to me how.”

    – Patterico

    No, that would not seem plausible to me. Her gesture struck me as a response, which would imply “a response to the person she is communicating with.”

    Leviticus (75b2f1)

  255. I think Ben Sasse’s openin statement was worth my time.

    DRJ (15874d)

  256. I agree, DRJ – very good points from Mr. Sasse. You know how I feel about the two-party system, so you know I think he’s overlooking the elephant in the room a bit, but his list of symptoms is well-observed.

    Leviticus (75b2f1)

  257. So then, Leviticus, I believe you are saying that she was responding to the person who had texted her. That makes sense to me too. So then the obvious follow up question is: why did she respond to that person by making a gesture on television rather than by a reply text? How does that make any sense at all?

    Patterico (9aff24)

  258. Leviticus,

    Is the OK sign so common for you that your fingers rest naturally in that position, even when you are not signaling someone, as Zina Bash did on Day One?

    DRJ (15874d)

  259. Whatever one’s position, it seems to me that there is too little known to drawn ironclad conclusions about anything.

    We know:

    1) She was accused of doing it on Day One, based on somewhat shaky evidence, and there was a big stink.
    2) Her husband made a forceful and apparently credible denial.
    3) On Day Two, she quite clearly and obviously did what she was accused of the day before.

    I think there is a perfectly innocent explanation: she doesn’t associate the OK sign with the baggage that unsavory Alt-Right types have placed on it, so on Day Two she simply used it reflexively out of habit without intending to make any kind of meta-statement. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

    Since we don’t know enough, it is debatable whether this is the most likely explanation, or entirely improbable, or somewhere in between. I just don’t think anyone can credibly claim to draw any certain conclusions.

    If, as some TrumpWorlders have suggested, she did it intentionally, then Patrick is absolutely right that it was immature, unprofessional and dumb.

    Dave (445e97)

  260. I think she mouths OK for the same reason Hoft tweets pictures of Democrats making the OK symbol right after he tweets a picture of himself making it with Pepe making it superimposed. She wants deniability. That’s part of the troll.

    Patterico (9aff24)

  261. I think there is a perfectly innocent explanation: she doesn’t associate the OK sign with the baggage that unsavory Alt-Right types have placed on it, so on Day Two she simply used it reflexively out of habit without intending to make any kind of meta-statement. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

    To whom was she making it?

    Patterico (9aff24)

  262. “why did she respond to that person by making a gesture on television rather than by a reply text? How does that make any sense at all?”

    – Patterico

    Because it’s faster? Because it’s more emphatic? I’ve done the same thing in very similar circumstances (not at a Supreme Court nomination hearing, but in a legislative hearing).

    Leviticus (75b2f1)

  263. I think Ben Sasse’s openin statement was worth my time.

    Sasse is one of my favorite people in Washington, but I think his opening statement was actually pretty far off the mark. I explained why back here, but nobody ever replied to my critique…

    Dave (445e97)

  264. To whom was she making it?

    I don’t claim to know.

    Since Kavanaugh appears to be speaking at the time, she might have expected that he (and she) was on-camera, but the cameras do move back and forth between shots of the witness and the senators, so I don’t think she could have known for sure whether she was on live-TV at any given moment.

    Dave (445e97)

  265. What would she be acknowledging? Her only role is to sit there. Was someone telling her to smile, sit up straight, don’t play with her hair, or confirming their lunch/dinner plans?

    If this was accidental, it makes her look awfully stupid and she is not stupid. She is 36, bilingual, Harvard BA and JD, Wharton MBA, has worked at the White House and for Cornyn, clerked for Kavanaugh and Alito, was a hospital VP and worked at Gibson Dunn & Crutcher. And she was ranked in the DC Most Beautiful, for those who think she is ugly.

    DRJ (15874d)

  266. I don’t claim to know

    I’m not asking you to know. Give me a plausible theory. I can’t think of one.

    Patterico (9aff24)

  267. Because it’s faster? Because it’s more emphatic?

    Not impossible but strikes me as a stretch, honestly.

    Patterico (9aff24)

  268. I’ll give you a theory. She seems to be looking straight ahead where the center of the committee sits — Grassley with Hatch to his right, Feinstein and Leahy to his left. Their staff sits behind them. I doubt she was signaling Democrats so I would focus on the staff that sits behind Grassley and Hatch. Maybe the blonde?

    DRJ (15874d)

  269. What would she be acknowledging? Her only role is to sit there. Was someone telling her to smile, sit up straight, don’t play with her hair, or confirming their lunch/dinner plans?

    It seemed to me that she might, for instance, be receiving information about the committee’s plans for a break, or some other aspect of the schedule. She is there in some capacity as his aide, not just to look drop-dead gorgeous, right? It doesn’t seem implausible that, out of courtesy, they might check privately with the witness’s team before publicly announcing something schedule-related.

    Dave (445e97)

  270. Give me a plausible theory. I can’t think of one.

    OK, I just offered a theory in response to DRJ.

    Dave (445e97)

  271. She is seated by McGahn on Day Two. I expect he would be the person they check with about scheduling, substance, anything. She is just there to show support.

    DRJ (15874d)

  272. I would guess – guess – that she’s there to assist Kavanaugh on breaks, and to serve as an insulated point of contact with GOP senators’ aides, on substantive issues as well as breaks etc.

    She’s very, very clearly not stupid, DRJ – I fully agree. That is actually Exhibit A in my argument that she is not an alt-right sympathizer.

    Leviticus (c4c70e)

  273. The fact that she’s really smart actively militates against the theory that she’s only there to sit there.

    Leviticus (c4c70e)

  274. She is there as a former law clerk to show support, not as a smart lawyer. Even though she is no longer a law clerk or a big law associate, she undoubtedly remembers how to sit still and not do anything stupid, which is part of the job description for those positions.

    DRJ (15874d)

  275. She is 36, bilingual, Harvard BA and JD, Wharton MBA, has worked at the White House and for Cornyn, clerked for Kavanaugh and Alito, was a hospital VP and worked at Gibson Dunn & Crutcher.

    For me, that is the context which entitles her to the benefit of the doubt. She is not some riffraff like Milo Yiannopoulos or Jim Hoft.

    nk (dbc370)

  276. You do realize they brought her in from Austin to sit behind him, right? She isn’t on McGahn’s team, she is window-dressing.

    DRJ (15874d)

  277. For all we know, Kavanaugh might have turned around and whispered “I need to use the men’s room” a few minutes earlier, and she privately relayed that to one of the committee apparatchiks…

    Dave (445e97)

  278. “For me, that is the context which entitles her to the benefit of the doubt. She is not some riffraff like Milo Yiannopoulos or Jim Hoft.”

    – nk

    Bingo. Thank you for stating that concisely; I have struggled to do so.

    Assuming that her actions on day two were deliberate, which I think is highly debatable, I will not blame a person of her pedigree for ignoring a media kerfuffle that she seems to be unreasonable.

    Leviticus (c4c70e)

  279. Go with that, although old senators typically need more pee breaks than young judges.

    DRJ (15874d)

  280. “Let’s ignore the media” does not seem smart to me, let alone Trump-like.

    DRJ (15874d)

  281. that seems *to her* to be unreasonable, I meant. Sorry, I’m doing this on a phone.

    Leviticus (c4c70e)

  282. Forget Zina. I don’t know what’s in her mind and I understand we can disagree about it. But if Trump did this, would you think he was trolling?

    DRJ (15874d)

  283. what if she did the ok sign right in front of her special place and did a strzok shimmy at the same

    with a banana in the other hand

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  284. Not necessarily. He makes this gesture all the time in his stump speeches. It may be where the idiots like Hoft and Cernovich and the Pepe folks picked it up.

    Leviticus (c4c70e)

  285. Being smart cuts two ways. As I read the comments, people think she either did this absent-mindedly or she doesn’t care what people believe because she thinks this is stupid. But she’s too smart not to realize public perception matters, and I suspect she’s too disciplined to do this gesture absent-mindedly a second time. To me, that leaves the possibility of an intentional gesture, maybe even a gesture someone urged her to do.

    If I had to bet, I would go with an unintentional, careless gesture … but it is her background that gives me pause. She is too smart and disciplined to do this twice in a high-profile situation like this.

    DRJ (15874d)

  286. Trump does use his hands a lot but his “OK sign” is different. The three fingers are curved down and the thumb and index look like he is using them to pick something up. plus, he doesn’t use it in the context of saying things are OK. He uses it to indicate being careful or precise.

    DRJ (15874d)

  287. Speaking of Ben Sasse, he says he “regularly considers” leaving the Republican party.

    Dave (445e97)

  288. he doesn’t use it in the context of saying things are OK

    In TrumpWorld, things are either worse than terrible, or better than perfect. They are never simply “OK”…

    Dave (445e97)

  289. Here is the closest he comes to OK, but it’s not the same.

    DRJ (15874d)

  290. I’ll give you a theory. She seems to be looking straight ahead where the center of the committee sits — Grassley with Hatch to his right, Feinstein and Leahy to his left. Their staff sits behind them. I doubt she was signaling Democrats so I would focus on the staff that sits behind Grassley and Hatch. Maybe the blonde?

    Let’s sum up where we are. In particular, let’s give her the benefit of the doubt and see how that looks.

    Day One:

    Watch the video before reading my description.

    She is sitting there looking impassive when she clearly gets a text. She reads it, smiles a bit, and moves her right hand to rest on her left arm. She moves her hand into the view of the TV cameras, adjusts her thumb and forefinger so that they form a circle, and smirks a little for the next several seconds as she holds her hand that way. However, all of this was inadvertent. The smirk was about something else; perhaps the unrelated text she just got. The movement of the hand into view of the TV cameras, and the odd movement of the thumb and forefinger, just random with no meaning.

    Then some lefties accuse her of being a white nationalist throwing a white power sign. She is appalled, as is her husband. They talk about it, and decide that she will say nothing, but that he will put up some angry tweets discussing how stupid it is to interpret her hand resting on her arm as an OK symbol as a white power gesture.

    Flash forward to Day Two. Watch the video before reading my description.

    She’s on her phone. Someone to her right seems to say something. Her left hand is out of view. She looks to her right, and then looks forward as she mouths “Oh” and then makes an OK gesture. She is either responding to a text with a hand gesture, or saying OK to the person to her right. But instead of texting back (if responding to a text), or (if responding to the person on her right) making the OK sign with her hand already where it is (low and behind Kavanaugh’s body) while looking to the right at that person, she instead holds her left hand high so it can be seen over Kavanaugh’s left shoulder, and looks straight at the camera while making the very same gesture very prominently and visibly.

    But all of that is accidental, because, hey, she’s used to making the gesture, and it was easier to prominently make to the texter by prominently making the gesture on national television, or (if she was making it to the person to her right) it was just natural for her to make the gesture high in the air while looking away from that person, rather than low (where her hand already was) while looking at that person. Or, she was gesturing to a staffer who happened to be sitting almost exactly where the TV cameras were, who had texted her…

    And at no time during any of this did the national controversy from the previous day over the same symbol — the controversy that she had discussed with her husband, that he made the angry tweets about — cross her mind.

    I’m just having a very difficult time making any of this sound remotely plausible.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  291. I saw that about Sasse, Dave. Also, I will be glad to discuss your earlier interesting comment. But I’m kind of burned out on politics right now.

    DRJ (15874d)

  292. “at a minimum”? On it’s face the easy guess is trolling, but even that isn’t a certainty. But What is the *maximum*, then? This is where I lose patience. A Mexican/jewish woman with grandparents who fled Nazi annihilation is not signalling “White Power.”

    That falls off a cliff of dumb. We can agree all day long about her duty to keep eyes off herself in any way that could reflect on Kavanaugh and the support he may have from anyone, but anyone who goes into orbit over “white power” like Gomer making a citizens arrest is either pretending or has lost their senses and or both.

    SarahW (3164f0)

  293. I’m reluctant to convict her of trolling on Day One. The smirk could have been about something else. But no matter how much I try to give her the benefit of the doubt on Day Two, when I watch the actual video and how high she held her hand and how she looked right at the screen, I just have a very difficult time giving her the benefit of the doubt. Even though there is a very strong “let’s all be adults here” bias to reach a conclusion that does give her the benefit of the doubt. I just have a very hard time seeing it.

    I try very much to be someone who bases his decisions on evidence and is willing to change his mind. Leviticus has given me arguments that are at least not impossible, and I would prefer to believe them. But I don’t find them very plausible. If I did, I would change my mind and say so.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  294. oops did a strzok shimmy at the same *time* i mean

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  295. “at a minimum”? On it’s face the easy guess is trolling, but even that isn’t a certainty. But What is the *maximum*, then? This is where I lose patience. A Mexican/jewish woman with grandparents who fled Nazi annihilation is not signalling “White Power.”

    I didn’t say the maximum was likely. The fact that Milo, a Jew, hung out with Richard Spencer and got Nazi salutes while singing karaoke means that your background does not conclusively establish your views. You don’t know much about this woman other than her resume and neither do I. I’ll grant you that it seems very unlikely that she’s an alt righter, and that there is no evidence (other than her behavior on camera, which is insufficient) to suggest she is. But don’t let your desire to be The Adult in the Room rule as completely impossible something that is just unlikely. Otherwise Milo’s Jewishness means he couldn’t be alt right. And he most certainly was, at least when people were still paying attention to him.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  296. <3 DRJ

    Dave (445e97)

  297. That falls off a cliff of dumb. We can agree all day long about her duty to keep eyes off herself in any way that could reflect on Kavanaugh and the support he may have from anyone, but anyone who goes into orbit over “white power” like Gomer making a citizens arrest is either pretending or has lost their senses and or both.

    I agree with that. Eugene Gu, who may have started this, is a dipshit. And “going into orbit” over “white power” is definitely an overreaction. You will note that I did not do that.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  298. And at no time during any of this did the national controversy from the previous day over the same symbol — the controversy that she had discussed with her husband, that he made the angry tweets about — cross her mind.

    I agree, and this is where the “accidental” argument loses me because she is smart and disciplined and has DC experience as a junior person who doesn’t mess up.

    DRJ (15874d)

  299. So I am quitting this discussion because I’m back to thinking it was a Trump tactic, and I hate conspiracy theories.

    DRJ (15874d)

  300. But let’s also be clear: if you believe that there is no connection between the alt right and the OK symbol, and that it is PURELY a troll invented by 4chan, you’re wrong. Here’s Richard Spencer election night 2016:

    The ADL’s “let’s all be the adults in the room” rejection of the symbol as connected to the alt right cites a 4chan thread from 2017.

    Pop quiz: which came first: Spencer’s November 8, 2016 tweet? Or a 2017 4chan thread?

    So maybe it’s not as obviously just trolling as you thought.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  301. So I am quitting this discussion because I’m back to thinking it was a Trump tactic, and I hate conspiracy theories.

    I do too, but I think that is at least as plausible as the silly-sounding theories I have heard that this was totally innocent. Those theories reject a LOT of evidence to the contrary.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  302. I sense that the response to all the evidence I just provided from some of the people disagreeing with me will be a throwing up of the hands, a declaring that “an OK symbol is an OK symbol” and a refusal to discuss it further. You want to believe this is a stupid controversy and to hell with any actual evidence suggesting different.

    I don’t say everyone will react this way. Leviticus and Dave won’t. But I wouldn’t be shocked if I get that from at least one person, maybe more.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  303. I learned long ago that there is no convincing people who are determined not to be convinced. I am happy to continue the discussion with anyone who wants to, but if any of you will never be convinced by anything and you’re emotionally invested in saying this is all stupid, let me know so I can at least stop discussing it with you.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  304. I’m surprised nobody asked her what she was doing on Day Two.

    Assuming she doesn’t say “Trolling the libs who called me a nazi the day before,” or recite the 14 words, at least we would have a specific explanation to make a judgment about.

    Dave (445e97)

  305. Everybody has made up their minds, Dave. So why ask her?

    I asked her husband on Twitter. He did not respond.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  306. That text could have said “Do the OK sign now.”

    DRJ (15874d)

  307. I am not the only person on earth who thinks this:

    Cue the Schlichterites talking about Jim Swift trying to sell cabins on a Weekly Standard cruise.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  308. That text could have said “Do the OK sign now.”

    If you watch the video and look at her face while imagining that to be the case, it fits. Doesn’t remotely mean that’s what happened. But not implausible.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  309. Maybe husband did not respond because he was using his official US Attorney Twitter account. That struck me as strange from the first moment, and made me wonder about the true nature of her actions.

    DRJ (15874d)

  310. “hand wringing” is another form of coded hand signal, popular with the alt-NeverTrump. To persist with it is just “trolling”.

    Munroe (d1c730)

  311. Here is a longer clip of Day Two, which starts earlier.

    She seems to be engaged in a more extended – and demonstrative – exchange with the person off-camera to her right than the briefer clip might suggest – both before and after the “OK” symbol.

    Disclaimer: I’ve never heard of the person or organization that posted the video is, and I have no idea what their political views might be. Unless they have doctored the clip (which I see no obvious evidence of) it shouldn’t matter.

    Dave (445e97)

  312. I don’t even know why this is controversial, it’s patently obvious that she was doing it on purpose on day 2. Why, why would a very smart, at least academically accomplished, person do that? Well, I am going to give her the benefit of the doubt on day 1, she probably did it innocently enough, either it was totally accidental, or she was making a sign for someone watching her on the TeeVee. She wouldn’t be the first to do something silly when on camera, it seems to be a problem, just generally.

    After the kerfuffle of day 1, knowing what was in her mind/heart, she probably was very upset that people with think a Jewish latina who’s family was actually oppressed by Nazi’s would be conveying that silliness. So, instead of just letting her husband’s tweetering, and her silence let it die, when someone instafacetweettimemailed her, she had a total brain fart moment and did the absolutely wrong thing and doubled down on the “you’re not the boss of me” bit.

    I can’t rule it out totally, and I don’t know her personally, but I’d be incredibly surprised if she shares any of the alt-x views, she is at least tangentially Trumpster party related. She just happened to do the dumbest possible thing, at the worst possible time, and is probably apoplectic about it now, but in the moment, just reacted, badly.

    I don’t know if that is trolling, that connotates some active planning and thinking through to get a specific reaction, instead of just being a smart person doing a dumb thing. I hope it’s the latter, and I hope it doesn’t ruin her career long term. Although in this day and age, it might open up some opportunities, I just hope she’s smart enough to know that would be a bad long-term decision, and just keep her head down.

    Colonel Klink (766556)

  313. OK, this is embarrassing. You guys were right and I was wrong. I’m going to have to write a new post about it.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  314. Dave, I was independently researching this but what I learned is consistent with the video you put up in the meantime.

    I feel pretty stupid.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  315. UPDATE x2: OK, it was innocent after all. I feel like an idiot. I’ll explain in a new post and link that post in an update.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  316. Eh, don’t feel bad.

    Only Donald Trump is right 100% of the time.

    Dave (445e97)

  317. UPDATE x3: Here is the post explaining what really happened and admitting error.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  318. All the arguments we made before about how she should have been aware of how she was being scrutinized still make intellectual sense. But now that I have seen the full video and believe in my bones that it was innocent, those arguments (which again are intellectually sound) just don’t ring emotionally true for me. I now see her as a true victim of a howling mob — a mob of which I was, shamefully, a part.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  319. This is Washington Swamp Creature 101. An aide needs an aide to step-and-fetch?!?!

    If it truly is ‘innocent’ – just get up off your ass and go get a bottle of water for the guy, for Christ’s Sake.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  320. I was wrong, too. Kudos to Leviticus and Dave for their insights, which were spot on.

    This actually makes me despair even more than I already had about the intelligence of Republicans. If someone who is almost 40, and who has the education and experience she has, cannot remember to avoid that gesture for one day …

    DRJ (15874d)

  321. @329. You got it, DRJ.

    She should know better given the circumstances. They all should. Th stink of Swamp Creature entitlement is all over this.

    And all kidding aside about this on this thread and the other, it may seem a small incident in itself but it’s a symptom of just why Trump got elected in the first place. Look at the layers of theatre and histrionics involved by these Swamp Creatures in just asking for a simple glass and/or bottle of water. Phone-texts, hand signals, stage whispers and nods–aides needing aides to aid… she’s young and her legs aren’t broken– just ‘get up off your ass’ and go get the man a glass and some water if he wants it. Nobody was going to steal her seat. It’s why people got pissed at cabinet secretaries wastes as well. That sense of ‘entitlement.’

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  322. Yup, I voted for dunderheadedness, not trolling or conspiracy, but the dunderhead was me.

    Colonel Klink (8cf599)

  323. DRJ, good lord, attack her intelligence because she can’t avoid a common hand gesture used daily her whole life to communicate an acknowledgement?

    That’s the problem this whole stupid howling mob circus shows. Forgetting that _she’s_ the normal person.

    SPQR (6f113d)

  324. I find this sad funny and infuriating it’s sad because. no one’s indicating anything but it has to be the left up there protesting because they can’t know that as a fact so it’s purely speculation and assumption because there’s nobody on the right I guess that could have something to say that’s relevant and that means that they are bigoted and their assumptions that no one on the right would ever open their mouth and say anything if they knew anything that was relevant to the situation in hearing that’s going on because that would be an American citizen not right or left who was trying to do the right for you the right reason! Because that’s sort of saying that you don’t exist on the right side if you don’t agree just keep your mouth shut and yet noone seems t then but then asshe is his she is his ex all Clerk is she trying to say that he is the clerk is t that he is the w ist and that’s e

    Keith w. Fletcher (b94a09)

  325. I just saw your last comment, SPQR. I have consistently said she is smart and that is why I found her action on Day Two surprising. She knew this gesture caused a stir on Day One. She knew how important the hearing is. IMO she should have been more careful, even with a casual gesture, because it had already been an issue. It was not an earth-shattering mistake but it was a mistake.

    DRJ (15874d)

Leave a Reply

Comment moderation is enabled. Your comment may take some time to appear.


Powered by WordPress.

Page loaded in: 0.8079 secs.