Patterico's Pontifications

9/1/2018

No R-E-S-P-E-C-T For Ariana Grande At Aretha Franklin’s Funeral

Filed under: General — Dana @ 12:02 pm



[guest post by Dana]

At yesterday’s funeral service for the legendary Aretha Franklin, 25-year old pop star Ariana Grande performed the classic “(You Make Me Feel Like A) Natural Woman.” After the performance, Bishop Charles H. Ellis III greeted the singer and thanked her while he hugged groped her before hundreds of people:

In the video, Grande is obviously tense and attempting to pull away from Ellis to create some space between them. This as his hand reaches further around her body toward her breast, and laughably blathers on about giving her respect. Given that he had to know this moment would make its way to the internet for the public at large to see, one wonders if he has gotten away with this sort of behavior before, without any consequences. Business as usual.

Moreover, this appears to be an example of just how easy it is for a woman to be be so caught off guard at finding herself in a most unexpected circumstance that she struggles to assertively react to inappropriate touching. There is that horrible moment of shock when one fully realizes what is happening, and confusion as one attempts to figure out how to literally, disengage. All of it making for one fleeting, awful moment. Grande is a not a novice at performing. It’s her livelihood, after all. But in this clip, she appears strained as she makes an effort to physically pull away from a dirty old man copping a feel in front of a huge audience.

For his part, Ellis apologized after receiving complaints about his behavior:

“It would never be my intention to touch any woman’s breast. … I don’t know I guess I put my arm around her,” Ellis said. “Maybe I crossed the border, maybe I was too friendly or familiar but again, I apologize.”

He said he hugged all the performers during Friday’s eight-hour service.

“I hug all the female artists and the male artists,” Ellis said. “Everybody that was up, I shook their hands and hugged them. That’s what we are all about in the church. We are all about love.”

He added: “The last thing I want to do is to be a distraction to this day. This is all about Aretha Franklin.”

Seriously?? You also hug male performers by awkwardly reaching under their shoulders toward their breasts?? Bullshit. Perhaps it all depends on your definition of a “hug”. I don’t buy the apology. I believe a grown man is fully aware of choosing to reach under the arm of a woman to hug her, rather than around her shoulder where there is no possibility of touching her breast. One would like to think that a man of God would be especially mindful of the bad optics and/or possible misinterpretation that might follow such a decision. Thankfully my bar of expectation for those in the pulpit to actually behave in a Christ-like manner is at an all-time low, so this isn’t all that shocking. Business as usual. And how sad is that.

P.S. For those who believe the bishop did not “cross the border” and are basing that opinion on one photograph, the video clip gives a clearer, much fuller picture of what took place.

(Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.)

–Dana

108 Responses to “No R-E-S-P-E-C-T For Ariana Grande At Aretha Franklin’s Funeral”

  1. I see where a number of people are focusing on Grande’s sartorial choice, all the while ignoring Ellis’ behavior. Because that’s what matters most here…

    Dana (023079)

  2. ‘Feel’ like a natural woman, eh, Bishop.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  3. Jeez. She’s actually trying to push away. I wonder if the pastor had been drinking, but at any rate, he did grope the poor woman. No surprise he doesn’t own up to his mistake in this age.

    But that’s the culture we have brought to out country.

    I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab ’em by the pussy. You can do anything.

    I guess we collectively voted a piece of #### that says something like that to the highest office in the country. Values matter.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  4. This is the kind of juvenile crap we used to try to get away with in high school. It’s just ridiculous that an adult male would be doing this. And I’m sure you are right, Dana, and this creep does this to most of the comely young women in his congregation.

    JVW (42615e)

  5. He also validated the Stop Snitching ghetto subculture with that flipping should be illegal bellow, Dustin.

    urbanleftbehind (67d95e)

  6. Pop quiz.

    Which is shorter; Ariana Grande or Ariana Grande’s dress?

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  7. He was just checking to see if she felt like a natural woman.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  8. urbanleftbehind, indeed he did. Taking responsibility just isn’t part of his program.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  9. I guess we collectively voted a rapist who, along with his despicable wife, attacked his victims later in the media, to the highest office in the country. Values matter.

    Fyp

    harkin (0f0199)

  10. I guess we collectively voted a rapist who, along with his despicable wife, attacked his victims later in the media, to the highest office in the country. Values matter.

    Fyp

    harkin

    I didn’t support Bill Clinton, but your boy Donald Trump sure loved supporting them. At any rate, it’s hilarious seeing Trump fans attack Bill Clinton on his sexual misconduct when Trump was so very much worse.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  11. I was wondering why no one immediately behind them on the stage called out Ellis, but then I took note of who the people were on the stage and thought, well of course they wouldn’t say or do anything because they didn’t think he did anything wrong .

    Dana (023079)

  12. Also, in light of #MeToo, I’m surprised he would be so brazen, or are pastors given a special dispensation these days?

    Dana (023079)

  13. I guess we collectively voted a rapist who, along with his despicable wife, attacked his victims later in the media, to the highest office in the country. Values matter.

    Fyp

    harkin

    Values matter if a Democrat is shown to lack them.

    If a Republican is shown to lack them, we grudgingly acknowledge it and argue that it doesn’t matter.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  14. I’ve tried to explain this to you before, harkin. When you choose to support Donald Trump, you forfeit your right to be taken seriously when you tsk tsk Democrats over matters of morality. I look at the comment you just left and don’t think: “My goodness, he’s right about Bill Clinton!” My very first reaction is: “Wow, harkin is a huge hypocrite saying values matter. That’s not what he argues about Trump, ever.”

    See how that works? Tribalist hypocrisy matters.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  15. If the Clintons supported Trump, Trump supporters would gladly overlook both Bill’s sexual escapades and Hillary’s history of stupidity/duplicity — just as Trump overlooked them when he wanted the Clintons as friends. I think Trump and his supporters realize this deep down, which is why they have to feign being so indignant over things that Trump does all the time.

    DRJ (15874d)

  16. It’s funny you mentioned this, Patterico. I was going to add a paragraph to the post that, if you criticize Ellis for what you agree is uninvited groping by a dirty old man *and* gave Trump a pass, then maybe focus on your hypocrisy first. Moreover, if you criticized Bill Clinton for his sexually inappropriate behavior toward women yet gave Trump a pass, some introspection is needed. I didn’t include it though because i knew it would just be an exercise in futility.

    Dana (023079)

  17. i knew it would just be an exercise in futility

    And would join the ranks of countless other such exercises in Trumpworld.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  18. I’m fine with people who want to ignore DJT’s crudeness, and past predatory behavior. It’s their choice. But those people had better not have thought WJC’s actions toward women or finances were a big deal. As you say, hypocrisy abounds when it comes to political tribalism. I can’t even call it partisanship anymore.

    For many years, I was so saddened that my friends on the Left would defend anything “their” Presidents would do, even to the point of ludicrous hypocrisy. And now some friends on the Right have caught this political disease, distilled to its essentials:

    It’s bad when you do it, but okay when I do it.

    I used to ask nk if there was a Greek myth about this: a curse that forces its victims to act like the people they most revile.

    Simon Jester (c2dcde)

  19. Personally, when it comes to values that matter in a president, I draw a line at slave holding. But, that’s just me.

    Munroe (01ccca)

  20. Racists!

    nk (dbc370)

  21. I used to ask nk if there was a Greek myth about this: a curse that forces its victims to act like the people they most revile.

    That would be wine, Simon.

    nk (dbc370)

  22. in vino veritas

    urbanleftbehind (67d95e)

  23. Even if the conduct has to be invented, ask Roy Moore about that.

    Narciso (e1024d)

  24. Trump has rehabilitated Bill Clinton a great deal by being so much worse than Clinton ever dreamed of. But I don’t think we can blame either for the jackleg “bishop”. He’s simply a scumbucket.

    nk (dbc370)

  25. Enough, Roy Moore needed to be told to trade in the pea*-shooter revolver for a Glock.

    *the legume, not the bodily fluid

    urbanleftbehind (67d95e)

  26. Anyone have any proof to Dustin’s accusation that Trump’s sexual conduct was so much worse than rapist Bill Clinton?

    NJRob (c4a768)

  27. And nk too.

    NJRob (c4a768)

  28. We can start with Trump cheating on three wives while Clinton cheated on only one. We can then move on to the number of Trump’s floozies versus Clinton’s. From there we can look at the number of unwanted sexual advances, payoffs, cover-ups and lawsuits.

    nk (dbc370)

  29. Let me know when you get to Clinton’s rapes and using the government to shut them up.

    NJRob (c4a768)

  30. one wife
    greatest life
    truly blessed
    is no next

    mg (8cbc69)

  31. The nervous laughter about the “bishop’s” pass and his crude joke that her name sounded like a new dish at Taco Bell says it all. He did it in front of the word! Smh.

    We just don’t know how to deal with this.

    Patricia (3363ec)

  32. Let me know when you get to Clinton’s rapes and using the government to shut them up.

    NJRob (c4a768) — 9/1/2018 @ 5:32 pm

    Anyone have any proof to Dustin’s accusation that Trump’s sexual conduct was so much worse than rapist Bill Clinton?

    NJRob (c4a768) — 9/1/2018 @ 4:41 pm

    So you’re simultaneously making extreme, grandiose claims while demanding everyone but you should provide proof?

    Well I’m a generous sort of person so here’s your proof.

    , “I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything.” -Taped Sexual Assault Confession of Donald Trump

    That was easy.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  33. And NJRob hasn’t given even a moment’s pause to the fact that Trump brags about doing this kind of stuff. It doesn’t matter to him.

    The intellectually honest would criticize both Clinton and Trump, and not look at the political party before deciding if sexual misconduct is important. NJRob, nk and everyone else here realizes Clinton’s done a lot of the same stuff. You’re acting like you think to criticize Trump is to somehow forgive Clinton. That’s just stupid.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  34. Interesting. Ann Althouse has a different view, apparently based on the photo. Wonder if the video would change her mind.

    Tabman (faa655)

  35. Tabman, the video is helpful. We’ve all had an awkward hug or bumped something we didn’t mean to. We can all imagine a photo at the wrong moment being misleading. The video makes it clear that’s not the case here.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  36. Dustin,

    Not rape. See how easy that is. But he’ll of a way to move those goalposts because everything in your mind is a way to hate Trump.

    Carry on with your 2 years of hate

    NJRob (c4a768)

  37. You minimize Clinton’s repeated rapes by saying Trump is much worse. That you hate the man so much that it doesn’t even occur to you shows how far you’ve gone.

    NJRob (c4a768)

  38. Those scoundrels that would blame the victim here would note she sung a song about walking side to side

    urbanleftbehind (67d95e)

  39. Regardless, you know not to do such a stupid thing, all the standards are all crazy.

    Narciso (246203)

  40. Tabman and Dustin,

    If you had clicked on the PS link in my post, you would have seen that I was referring to Althouse.

    Dana (023079)

  41. Re Ms. Grande, no matter how suggestive her videos, I’d cut her some slack given how some militant Islamist nutjob literally terrorized her fans at a concert in the UK. And this 25-year old woman certainly didn’t need some middle-aged preacher grope the side of her boobs while talking about his own 28-year old daughter. Good grief. I don’t know the young lady, but she’s already experienced enough. More than.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  42. Dustin,

    Not rape. See how easy that is. But he’ll of a way to move those goalposts because everything in your mind is a way to hate Trump.

    Carry on with your 2 years of hate

    NJRob (c4a768) — 9/1/2018 @ 8:16 pm

    It’s not hate. I just have no tolerance for sexual assault. I think Clinton’s behavior was unacceptable, but I also think Trump’s was unacceptable. All I did to Trump, the entirely of my so-called hate, was to quote him accurately.

    Why take it personally? It doesn’t cost you much to admit Trump did the same kind of stuff this Bishop guy did. It’s actually pretty interesting how Trump’s comments about groping women, this Bishop, the #metoo movement all fit together.

    Most reasonable folks will admit that having Trump vs Clinton showed that both parties were making serious mistakes and falling short of our nation’s needs for values. Is that really hateful to you?

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  43. Ivana testified that Trump raped her, of course, but NJRob doesn’t wanna acknowledge that one either. Is it the Michael Cohen “it’s not rape if she’s your wife” excuse, or something else?

    Leviticus (c08486)

  44. It’s not hate. I just have no tolerance for sexual assault. I think Clinton’s behavior was unacceptable, but I also think Trump’s was unacceptable. All I did to Trump, the entirely of my so-called hate, was to quote him accurately.

    Why take it personally? It doesn’t cost you much to admit Trump did the same kind of stuff this Bishop guy did. It’s actually pretty interesting how Trump’s comments about groping women, this Bishop, the #metoo movement all fit together.

    Most reasonable folks will admit that having Trump vs Clinton showed that both parties were making serious mistakes and falling short of our nation’s needs for values. Is that really hateful to you?

    Dustin (ba94b2) — 9/1/2018 @ 10:01 pm

    How heavy were those goalposts? You said Trump was much worse. I said Clinton’s actions were worse and stated why. You doubled down. I called you out on it.

    I didn’t once defend Trump’s repugnant actions or behavior. I said your words were wrong and lessened Clinton’s disgusting offenses and minimized his victims.

    Stop reading into it more than is there.

    Now you’re just trying to pull moral equivalence and wash your hands. Clinton is a repeat rapist. Period. End stop. Trump is a philanderer, adulterer and morally repugnant human. Both have bad personal characteristics. One is clearly worse than the other. And it’s not Trump.

    NJRob (b00189)

  45. Trump is a philanderer, adulterer and morally repugnant human.

    You’re deflecting away from the fact Trump’s statement was confessing to sexual assault. That’s a defense.

    How heavy were those goalposts?

    I am pretty sure you’re the one who keeps wanting to talk about Clinton. If you really want to insist one must be considered worse than the other, well, very few (none?) of Clinton’s sexual misconduct were both non-consensual and proven to have happened. Some were terrible and never proven, some were proven but merely sleazy. Trump, on the other hand, confessed to a serial pattern of non-sensual sexual assaults, which you keep shouting is ‘not rape’ or something. As Leviticus points out, Trump was very credibly accused of forcible rape, and his lawyer’s defense was not that this didn’t happen.

    NJRob, it gets tiresome debating with the angry. Why are you so angry with me? All I did was quote Trump’s own words. That’s all I did. If you’re mad, you should be mad at him for doing it, not at me for pointing out the truth. This Bishop guy represents something remarkable in our culture, and so does Trump. Deflecting to ‘but but but the other political party’ is indeed a cop-out and a defense, and I find that sad.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  46. No will? Wow. She had a voice, now she pays the irs. Sad.

    mg (8cbc69)

  47. NJRob,

    Both Clinton and Trump are known philanderers who delight in seducing women, of which there are apparently many who are willing and enjoy the attention. I think your position is that Clinton is worse than Trump because Clinton has allegedly raped a non-willing victim, while Trump merely paid his.

    If so, I see your point. It is “better” not to break the law, which Clinton has done when he forced someone to have sex. Of course, if breaking the law is the point, we have to overlook the prostitution laws with Trump.

    But neither of them typically has to force or pay anyone for sex. They seduce their sex partners in much the same way they seduce their public. In that, they are exactly the same.

    DRJ (15874d)

  48. and jack ryan, didn’t really take jeri to a swinger’s club in paris, in retrospect it was a claim she might have held beck, but seven of nine wasn’t really acting,

    narciso (d1f714)

  49. With Trump, we also have to overlook state sexual assault laws that criminalize unwanted groping and voyeurism, both of which he has admitted doing. I bet Clinton has, too.

    DRJ (15874d)

  50. Ryan, Jack was milqtoast AF and fiery Mike Ditka had to pull his bid back because of his restaurants (see Iowa, agriculture).

    urbanleftbehind (01dcd1)

  51. Don’t complain about loache characters, when they take down one of good repute.

    Narciso (525eb7)

  52. First of all saying that what someone said is equal to what someone else did seems off.

    Second both Trump and the Bishop and Bill and…. well everyone, have done bad things. Its why we are exhorted to get the log out of our own eye rather than worrying about the speck in the eye of the other. I’m not suspending my judgement here and I’ll concede Trumps peccadillos.

    I’m defending Trump the President, not Trump from 5, 10, 15 years ago. If he is having affairs now, it wouldn’t be out of form for the office, but I’d make a judgement that Trump would be very wrong to do that to Melania and the affair would diminish the office of President (because we are not France… the French would give the mistress a home to live in and the affair would actually elevate the office)

    And I’ll compare that to Bill or JFK if I want and if some arrogant condescending hypocrite calls me a hypocrite so what? The basket of hypocrites holds everyone because EVERYONE has something.

    A few people here supported that fraud McMullin who had no remorse about stiffing campaign workers and vendors http://dailycaller.com/2018/04/18/evan-mcmullin-owes-campaign-staff/
    does that mean they lose the right to criticize Trump about money? nope Two different people , two different circumstances… but McMullin is still a jackass

    steveg (a9dcab)

  53. There’s not that much of a difference. Both Bill Clinton and Donald Trump lied while in office about their extra-marital affairs, only Clinton did it under oath. I’m not going to say who is worse, because I don’t really care. They’re both bad guys who’ve trashed their wedding vows.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  54. Steveg,

    If you don’t judge people, then how do you make the decision who to vote for? For instance, what was the difference between Trump and Cruz if their “peccadillos” don’t matter to you?

    DRJ (15874d)

  55. Doesn’t today’s Gospel expect us to judge what people do?

    Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. Nothing outside a person can defile them by going into them. Rather, it is what comes out of a person that defiles them.”

    . . . .

    For it is from within, out of a person’s heart, that evil thoughts come—sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All these evils come from inside and defile a person.”

    DRJ (15874d)

  56. Second both Trump and the Bishop and Bill and…. well everyone, have done bad things. Its why we are exhorted to get the log out of our own eye rather than worrying about the speck in the eye of the other. I’m not suspending my judgement here and I’ll concede Trumps peccadillos.

    Everyone has done something at some point in their life that can be considered leftist. Including you, steveg. So wy do you get so upset at Hillary and Nancy Pelosi for doing leftist things?

    This is the same kind of logic as “everyone is a sinner, so is Trump, ergo who can say he has sinned more than I?” I can. He has sinned more than probably 85% of the public.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  57. President Trump’s a good man, industrious and courageous.

    I give him 5 stars.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  58. DRJ
    Those things do matter and we judge all the time or we’d all be ripped off and dead.
    Trumps “grab them by the pussy” remark seems to not have been a literal unwanted grab or we’d have heard about it. Trump was describing a crude approach, but no one yet has come forward and said Trump indeed grabbed her by her lady parts.

    Cruz didn’t win, so now Trump is President and he lies a lots, tells tall tales, tweets and battles.
    He’s the President we have and as President I am happy with the economy and his foreign policy wins.

    I’d like to say that the McCain family showed why you get the war hero, public servant and the petty thin skinned spoiled brat. No invite for Palin? Back channel back stabbing of her?

    The family and Bush and Obama using McCains passing as a political platform… equals no class…. in my judgement

    steveg (a9dcab)

  59. I voted for Jimmy Carter

    steveg (a9dcab)

  60. Has he sinned 85% more than you? I wouldn’t know because I’m not party to what goes on in your heads

    steveg (a9dcab)

  61. Trumps “grab them by the pussy” remark seems to not have been a literal unwanted grab or we’d have heard about it. Trump was describing a crude approach, but no one yet has come forward and said Trump indeed grabbed her by her lady parts.

    Um.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  62. Has he sinned 85% more than you?

    More than 85% although that’s not what I said, maybe read it again.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  63. He’s the President we have and as President I am happy with the economy and his foreign policy wins.

    North Korea is no longer a nuclear threat!!!!!!1!!1!

    Patterico (115b1f)

  64. Maybe read what I asked you again?
    Like I said, I don’t know what goes on in your head

    steveg (a9dcab)

  65. I distilled your assertion about the “85% of the public” down to you personally to see if any humility might kick in

    steveg (a9dcab)

  66. and it didn’t

    steveg (a9dcab)

  67. I’m happy the Norks and Chinese are being dealt with in a stronger fashion.
    Whether or not peace is at hand is up to the Chinese and the Norks… if they choose no, Trump has signaled that the repercussions will be economic… at first anyway

    steveg (a9dcab)

  68. Trump-a-la-carte. He’s so yummy.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  69. You called Trump’s liaisons peccadillos compared to JFK and Clinton, so it appears you are ranking sinners. Don’t you think Bill Clinton has sinned more than Trump?

    DRJ (15874d)

  70. I distilled your assertion about the “85% of the public” down to you personally to see if any humility might kick in

    No, you didn’t. The questions “Has Trump sinned more than 85% of the public?” and “Has Trump sinned 85% more than Patterico?” are not semantically equivalent. The first asks about Trump’s amount of sin in relation to the general population. The second compares Trump’s amount of sin with the amount committed by another specific person.

    It is logically possible for Trump to have sinned 8500% more than some particular person, but still only have sinned more than, say, 84% of the population. It is also possible for Trump to literally be the worst sinner on the planet, worse than 100% of everyone else on Earth, but only have sinned 1% more than the next worst person.

    Demosthenes (7fae81)

  71. There is much truth in That, Steve, say it was really mark Salter who issued the diktat against the huntress, but he cooperated with the Jones memo, the nut roots tundra chapter did their bit.

    Narciso (c5ae32)

  72. the huntress

    This always makes me laugh.

    https://youtu.be/zL7B7L7nZlE?t=81

    Davethulhu (fddbc4)

  73. It’s a transliteration from the way she was perceived in russia, that Roger Kimball discovered,

    Narciso (c5ae32)

  74. I distilled your assertion about the “85% of the public” down to you personally to see if any humility might kick in

    steveg (a9dcab) — 9/2/2018 @ 4:21 pm

    Actually, you took it personally that Trump was criticized with his own words. Just a direct quote. And so you made it personal about Patterico. This is typical of political discussions, but hardly of yours or any other side.

    Look: Trump is a terrible guy. He’s been shown dishonest and disloyal so many times, crude or even sexually exploitative many times. All you need to do is let go of this idea that Trump’s goodness or badness has anything to do with your own or his critics. If Trump is terrible, that doesn’t mean his critics are good, by the way. It doesn’t mean Hillary is good. It doesn’t mean the democrats are right about policies. There is no reason to carry water for him.

    Trump’s own words show he does believe that his celebrity status entitled him to harm people sexually. That’s on him. It’s wrong to respond to this with rambling about democrats. That descent into partisanship just makes us all bitter. We shouldn’t waste our time or happiness defending any politician (and attacking a politician’s critics is indeed a defense). Anthony Weiner had some particularly nasty defenders. I recall they hated Patterico in particular. To them, it was very much about partisanship. And at the end of the day, Weiner is still a punchline, a footnote, and a loser. No one thinks he was ‘hacked’ anymore. The people who got so bitter in their hatred of Weiner’s critics were drinking poison and hoping his critics would die. Trump’s political supporters would do well to consider that. They can support policies and principles without getting bitter that Trump’s own words show his poor character.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  75. Meanwhile huma was at the McCain funeral, odd who gets invited and who is thrown like a side of beef, how all those unsecured emails ended up on wieners laptop, and they were apparently unchecked.

    Narciso (c5ae32)

  76. The room of neocons performed the perfect Wellstonian moment.

    mg (8cbc69)

  77. As a former regular viewer of Victorious, I’m kind of upset that we’re talking about Trump and not what that “bishop” creep did to Ariana Grande. Anyhow, here’s Tori and Jade singing Take A Hint.

    nk (dbc370)

  78. I dunno about “neocons” but otherwise yes. Very reminiscent of Wellstone’s funeral, and they don’t have the excuse that they’re Minnesotans.

    nk (dbc370)

  79. Only some were neocons, certainly Kissinger isn’t they arose partially out of his television category error.

    Narciso (c5ae32)

  80. Well Wellstone waa wrong but principled, that really can’t be said of mccain.

    Narciso (c5ae32)

  81. Loonatics, nk.

    mg (8cbc69)

  82. Meanwhile huma was at the McCain funeral, odd who gets invited and who is thrown

    I think it’s easier to understand if you just dispense with politics. Maybe Huma is a friend of someone in the Mccain family. I believe Mccain’s office wasn’t far from Hillary’s so even though they were in different parties maybe they just got along at the cafeteria. Surely everyone here has close friends who have very different political views.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  83. The toppling of qaddaffi, and Mubarak for who knows exactly whose interest, is the policy question, now it turns out the similar operation against Assad was a,fraud that made Iran contra seem like a parking ticket.

    Narciso (c5ae32)

  84. When that room full of globalists applauded themselves it was fitting.

    mg (8cbc69)

  85. 80 — You accuse McCain of being unprincipled. Care to explain that?

    Appalled (1a17de)

  86. You could look at the vote on Obama care and look backward, was qaddaffi an ally or the darkest villain.

    Narciso (c5ae32)

  87. Just saw Billy Bob giving Grande the eye at the funeral. LOL. He never changes. Of course, if it was up to the Never Trumpers – Billy bob would be in the White House right now getting Lewinskys.

    Because Trump had bad character or something.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  88. I never realized that the bedrock of conservatism was “character” until I read George Will column supporting Hillary in Oct 2016.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  89. I never realized that the bedrock of conservatism was “character” until I read George Will column supporting Hillary in Oct 2016.

    rcocean

    The thread is about a man fondling a woman against her will, something Trump has bragged he does. What’s this got to do with Hillary or George Will?

    At any rate, didn’t your candidate win? why aren’t you happy and trying to build his support? Why the constant need to attack people who didn’t support Trump in the last election? It’s easier to destroy than to build, but moving on from the fractured GOP would require honesty. Indeed, the people who did not like Trump bragging about fondling women against their will remain pretty sure Trump lacks personal character. You can talk about Hillary for the next two years if you want, but it’s just not a persuasive argument for the thing Trump admitted to doing that is actually relevant to this discussion of how bad that kind of conduct is.

    Billy bob would be in the White House right now getting Lewinskys.

    Has there ever been a less important reason to choose a president than that? Hating the president from 20 years ago doesn’t solve anything.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  90. Of course, if it was up to the Never Trumpers – Billy bob would be in the White House right now getting Lewinskys.

    No, sir. That is not true. If it were up to me, President Walker would be enjoying good approval ratings in the middle of his second year in office. Vice-President Rubio would be glad-handing senators to make sure that Brett Kavanagh’s confirmation hearings went smoothly, so he could join Gorsuch on the court with little delay. The Republicans would be looking strong in their efforts to hold the House and the Senate. Meanwhile, in New York City, the worst major-party nominee in American history would still be licking her wounds, while the biggest blowhard in American history (who we are all so thankful didn’t even come close to winning the Republican nomination) would be wondering why his alt-right alternative to FOX News was getting swamped in the ratings battle.

    tl;dr: If you’re going to tell me about what the world would look like if it were up to me, you should at least have the decency to let me pick my own starting point. Because if it were up to me, it never would’ve come down to a choice between Hillary and Trump in the first place.

    Demosthenes (7fae81)

  91. Demosthenes (7fae81) — 9/2/2018 @ 8:39 pm

    You know I’ve put up with this ‘if you had your way Hillary would be president’ nonsense for so long I just stopped responding to it, but that was the perfect response. Very good point.

    What an opportunity 2016 was, and completely squandered by the time the primary was over. And the GOP still hasn’t fixed its primary system, and the Trump guys are still angrier at conservatives than they are at anyone else.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  92. Demosthenes (7fae81) — 9/2/2018 @ 8:39 pm

    Good response.

    felipe (023cc9)

  93. “And the GOP still hasn’t fixed its primary system”

    Superdelegates are a proven way to fix the results. Or, by “fix” did you mean reflect the voters’ will?

    Munroe (d491b5)

  94. That ignores the fact that walker and all his staff, were under a,blizzard of lawfare for four years, from a vindictive prosecutor who had no case.

    Furthermore Romney was a basenghi when it came to Obama but he was chatty Cathy on the primaries, and he has to ding the

    Narciso (c5ae32)

  95. Media’s bell even when he wasn’t asked. Fusion gps may very well have been the ones behind most of the carp that Cruz was hit with.

    Narciso (c5ae32)

  96. Because if it were up to me, it never would’ve come down to a choice between Hillary and Trump in the first place.
    Thank you, Demosthenes. The key phrase to me was “a choice between Hillary and Trump”. It was both parties that let down the American people, forcing us to choose between Giant Douche or Turd Sandwich or Door #3 in protest of the s**tty choices the Democrat and Republican parties gave us.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  97. The Washington primary is pretty much a formality, Montagu. But since you seen to hang on the word of politics and Glenn Kessler, you would likely have made the wrong choice anyways

    Narciso (c5ae32)

  98. Superdelegates are a proven way to fix the results. Or, by “fix” did you mean reflect the voters’ will?

    Munroe (d491b5) — 9/2/2018 @ 8:56 pm

    Most voters didn’t want Trump to be president, both in the primary and the general election. And Trump was indeed a poor result (in my opinion).

    But I see something specific going wrong with the GOP primaries I would like to address that has nothing to do with Trump. It’s too easy for a mass of similar candidates to split a majority of like-minded voters. A lot goes wrong from there, but at the end of the day, a smaller faction can overcome the majority.

    The solution is pretty simple: a run-off election. Top two candidates get a second vote.

    Can you explain what you meant by superdelegates? I honestly am unclear on the need for that kind of thing in 2018.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  99. Fusion gps may very well have been the ones behind most of the carp that Cruz was hit with.

    Maybe it was the same bots the Russians used to help Trump in the general election. I know, crazy thought huh.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  100. The Washington primary is pretty much a formality, Montagu

    Good thing there are 49 other states, then.

    Demosthenes (7fae81)

  101. Well too many egos, but if you’re going to put an end to That, in addition to every fool consultant who thinks he will be the eminence gris.

    Narciso (c5ae32)

  102. 2 easy requirements to fix the primaries.

    1) Close them.

    2) Have the most Republican states, as shown by the previous presidential election results, vote first. No more Iowa’s, New Hampshire’s, etc.

    Bonus: Stop having the GoPe try to shiv the most conservative candidates in the race.

    NJRob (b00189)

  103. They don’t have the will to do the first, that would probably Alabama and georgia.

    Narciso (c5ae32)

  104. But since you seen to hang on the word of politics and Glenn Kessler, you would likely have made the wrong choice anyways

    Thank you for telling me what my hypothetical wrong choices would be, Narciso. Since you seem to know my choices better than I do myself, which wrong choices did I make? Or will make?

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  105. Did either outlet point out the utter fraud of chisholms case, politifact was on the war path against at least since 2013, how about kasuchs massive Medicaid expansion, did the complain about that except being too small?

    narciso (d1f714)

  106. No, you didn’t. The questions “Has Trump sinned more than 85% of the public?” and “Has Trump sinned 85% more than Patterico?” are not semantically equivalent. The first asks about Trump’s amount of sin in relation to the general population. The second compares Trump’s amount of sin with the amount committed by another specific person.

    It is logically possible for Trump to have sinned 8500% more than some particular person, but still only have sinned more than, say, 84% of the population. It is also possible for Trump to literally be the worst sinner on the planet, worse than 100% of everyone else on Earth, but only have sinned 1% more than the next worst person.

    Thank you, Demosthenes.

    Apparently I lack humility because I am able to recognize the perfectly obvious fact that I sin less than Donald Trump. But as I said, this is no great claim. The overwhelming majority of the population can say the same.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  107. No, sir. That is not true. If it were up to me, President Walker would be enjoying good approval ratings in the middle of his second year in office. Vice-President Rubio would be glad-handing senators to make sure that Brett Kavanagh’s confirmation hearings went smoothly, so he could join Gorsuch on the court with little delay. The Republicans would be looking strong in their efforts to hold the House and the Senate. Meanwhile, in New York City, the worst major-party nominee in American history would still be licking her wounds, while the biggest blowhard in American history (who we are all so thankful didn’t even come close to winning the Republican nomination) would be wondering why his alt-right alternative to FOX News was getting swamped in the ratings battle.

    tl;dr: If you’re going to tell me about what the world would look like if it were up to me, you should at least have the decency to let me pick my own starting point. Because if it were up to me, it never would’ve come down to a choice between Hillary and Trump in the first place.

    *standing o*

    Patterico (115b1f)


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