Patterico's Pontifications

8/10/2018

Ben Shapiro And Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The Debate That Never Was Going To Happen (UPDATE ADDED)

Filed under: General — Dana @ 8:58 am

[guest post by Dana]

So, this happened, and I’m not even sure I really care but it seems to be a thing now. Let me just say, I think that there should be far more public debates happening between candidates in political races, at all levels, than is currently happening. More coming straight from the horse’s mouth, and less from the watered-down, invested media on both sides of the aisle. It also seems to me that a viable candidate worth their salt would jump at any opportunity to personally convince voters that they are indeed worth that voter’s nod.

With that, a young, very inexperienced, self-proclaimed Democratic Socialist who is running for Congress in a heavily-Democratic district in New York made the unfortunate claim a few weeks ago after a satirical video of her was posted, that “Republicans are so scared of me that they’re faking videos and presenting them as real on Facebook because they can’t deal with reality anymore”. In the following weeks, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez unfortunately also revealed her clear lack of understanding about economics, how government works and the specifics of her proposed policies as she made one absurd claim after another. So many of them, in fact, that even the Washington Post’s Glenn Kesssler was unable to ignore her eyebrow-raising claims.

As Ocasio-Cortez threw down the gauntlet and made her foolish claims, conservative pundit Ben Shapiro politely invited the new media darling of the left to appear on his show and have a “real conversation” about the issues:

Miss Ocasio-Cortez, I’m really excited that you’ve been elevated to that position and I would love to have a real conversation with you about the issues. You’ve noted that you think Republicans are afraid to debate you or talk to you or discuss the issues with you.

Not only am I eager to discuss the issues with you, I’m willing to offer $10,000 to your campaign, today, for you to come on our Sunday special. We can have an hour-long conversation about all the topics under the sun, really probe your belief system.

Fair enough, it would seem. But not to Ocasio-Cortez, who responded by embarrassingly asserting that his offer was akin to some sort of sexual harassment:

Untitled

Ugh. To make an assertion of sexism is not a well thought-out response, and is instead a painfully manipulative and calculated response that has the potential to help diminish viable claims of actual sexual harassment. This is not what women on either side of the aisle need. It’s a disingenuous political ploy that is easily seen through. Further, if Ocasio-Cortez really didn’t believe she owed Shapiro a response, then why on earth did she? Why not just ignore him? After all, he’s not a politician running for office, he’s not anyone who can further her cause. Why even acknowledge his existence? Someone needs to set this girl straight. She is shooting herself in the foot every time she opens her mouth. And as I have always maintained, the most unattractive look a woman can wear is the look of desperation. And to me, her painfully calculated response wreaks of it. Obviously, under the surface of embarrassing bravado, she and her handlers know that Shapiro would call each of her claims into account and that she would not be up to the task of facing such a direct challenge, let alone coherently defending her positions. This is the very definition of being out of one’s depth. Part of me feels sorry for her because she is clearly young and inexperienced, and not well informed. Yet she is an adult, who willingly stepped into the brutal ring of politics to become the future of the progressive Democratic party, and who happily grants interviews to friendly media outlets and appears regularly on cable television. So this is hers to own.

On a side note, while Ocasio-Cortez is certainly not obligated to debate anyone, if she compares Shapiro’s offer to debate with “catcalling,” what does say about conservative women who have asked her to debate them instead?

(Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.)

UPDATE: I’m just going to leave this here:

Untitled
Untitled2

–Dana

113 Responses to “Ben Shapiro And Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The Debate That Never Was Going To Happen (UPDATE ADDED)”

  1. So much of Ocasio-Cortez reminds me of President Trump: not well informed, no real understanding of political philosophies, no understanding of how government works, policies and procedure, rambles on to distract and obfuscate, etc. Funny, that.

    Dana (023079)

  2. Shapiro is a media hoar

    mg (9e54f8)

  3. No she s about as ignorant as Obama, yet they let this pass 2008, she has a,whole host of notions that have nothing to do with the real world

    Narciso (370326)

  4. She’s a troll not any different from the ones we have on here. She, like our leftists, will be hardest hit that the accuser from Rep Jordan said Rep Jordan is innocent of all claims.

    http://dailycaller.com/2018/08/09/wrestler-recants-jim-jordan/

    NJRob (b00189)

  5. In the immortal words of Kosmo Kramer, “Catfight.”

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  6. The unwoke turk uygur had to be a little more diligent, in his recruiting, I assume the four pigeons were his as well.

    Narciso (370326)

  7. But let’s not let the genius of Rick Perry pass us by unnoticed. OOPS!
    “You too” maybe, but Republicans don’t have smarts covered very well I’m afraid – not much room to talk there.

    Tillman (d34303)

  8. The pearl clutching from the right on this has been hilarious.

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  9. “I don’t understand how analogies work” – Right Pundits

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  10. The governor of the state of Texas who had recent back surgery vs the slumming bartender from westchester?

    Narciso (370326)

  11. She said conservatives were scared of her. Shapiro offered to debate her and she likened it to sexual harrassment. lololol

    The pearl-clutching is all on the left. To suggest Shapiro doesn’t understand similes/analogies while a new political star does not understand the basics of a subject for which she earned (cough) a college degree is a hoot.

    PLEASE make this loon the face of the Democratic Party. David Hogg too!!

    harkin (096d35)

  12. Now this is the first wave of This, recall in 2004, mostly establishment candidates routed the nutroots, including their champion dean, which made them less motivated in the fall.

    Narciso (370326)

  13. Other than whine – What in Sam hel do rinos do?

    mg (9e54f8)

  14. she likened it to sexual harrassment

    No she didn’t. She said he deserved as much consideration as a catcaller: none. Shapiro does not debate in good faith.

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  15. So dude tells her that he wants to “…really probe [her] belief system.” He just couldn’t resist stating it that way, now could he? Catcall indeed.

    https://www.newsweek.com/ben-shapiro-wants-debate-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-so-much-he-offered-her-10k-1066118

    Tillman (d34303)

  16. Dana, you’re female, do you feel a at least a little uncomfortable when some jack-ass says he wants to “really probe” anything about you?

    Tillman (d34303)

  17. Chimichangas! Look at the socialism on that babe!

    nk (dbc370)

  18. Well, he notched (still notching?) a Hondurena (Corey Lewandowski’s punching bag Michelle Fields), so he’s a fetishist, the right’s analog to Corbyn.

    urbanleftbehind (07ab46)

  19. Sometimes a cigar is only a cigar, Tillman.

    nk (dbc370)

  20. You and I don’t count here nk, we’re male and not quite the same beings as females. I want to know Dana’s or DRJ’s opinion. Those are about the only two we haven’t scared off yet, sad to say.

    Tillman (d34303)

  21. 1) “No she didn’t. She said he deserved as much consideration as a catcaller: none.”

    2) “Shapiro does not debate in good faith.

    So pure.

    harkin (096d35)

  22. I took you for a girl, Tillman.

    mg (9e54f8)

  23. Great post Dana!

    This made me laugh:

    “…I want to know Dana’s or DRJ’s opinion. Those are about the only two we haven’t scared off yet, sad to say…”

    Scared off? Maybe been gross enough to make folks throw up their hands and say the hell with posting.

    Dana, I find that folks with extremist points of view, like AOC, project how they want or do deal with others onto opponents. She is clearly worried that folks will pose questions that will make her look bad. Sort of like we see every day?

    The problem with promoting someone into the public eye, right or left, is the death of discourse in our society. It’s possible to disagree without being disagreeable, but not these days, it seems.

    Again, great post.

    Simon Jester (e3618d)

  24. um no simon, the overlords tried to shut down prager, and zombie, and dead file, York and doran, so confident are they, of course there is little outcry, the more diligent minders scrubbed young mr wihhaj’s little altercation in Arizona, down the memory hole,

    narciso (d1f714)

  25. I mean you no disrespect, narciso, but I can only sometimes determine what you are writing about.

    I doubt we disagree, but I honestly can’t tell from your responses. What I meant is our current media overlords love to hit folks on the Right with nutty questions, extract partial answers, etc…all to make that person look bad. AOC is worried about exactly that, because she and her buddies do that to their opponents—knowing it is dishonest—daily.

    Simon Jester (e3618d)

  26. “So much of Ocasio-Cortez reminds me of President Trump: not well informed, no real understanding of political philosophies, no understanding of how government works, policies and procedure, rambles on to distract and obfuscate, etc. Funny, that.“

    The key difference would most likely be that you would probably be happier with Trump’s policy actions than Ocasional-Cortex.

    Colonel Haiku (b5bc8f)

  27. 16… just sayin’! She’s easy on the eyes until you see that look in her eyes.

    Colonel Haiku (b5bc8f)

  28. Entonces… por su puesto…

    Colonel Haiku (b5bc8f)

  29. I’m sure Ms. Ocasio-Cortez would find it less unpleasant to get pinched in the butt by Shapiro than to debate with the guy.

    Paul Montagu (cbbfc4)

  30. Kid, buy a tie and have your jacket and shirt dry-cleaned.

    “Hello, valet service? How long does it take to have a suit sponged and pressed?” – Roger Thornhill [Cary Grant] ‘North By Northwest’ 1959

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  31. No, simon they shut the whole discussion down, I just gave you three recent examples, and they are the farthest star from that yutz, alex jones, he’s just the canary, not only did they block prager, but strassel writing about prager, they didn’t erase Michael doran, one of the leading middle east specialists, but shadow banned his inconvenient facts, they only gave Byron York the digital third degree. I don’t make this up, I wouldn’t know how.

    narciso (d1f714)

  32. I don’t need invective, but when you don’t care for my answers, you say you can’t understand me, well that’s fine, yes ocasio cortez lost her first round of poker this week, but the casino is still open, as we see in the kobach and balderson case, they hit the slot machines till they win,

    narciso (d1f714)

  33. she clearly doesn’t opportunity cost, she could have donated the money to a charity or a campaign fund,

    narciso (d1f714)

  34. 31… as mentioned, the Al Franken Buick has had the trunk stuffed and has been deployed…

    Colonel Haiku (b5bc8f)

  35. Now that we are amassing a body of evidence as to the abilities of women in politics (remember how the warcry was we need women in office because men suck at it???) the worm is turning. Candace Owens is kryptonite to that “movement’ and “thinking.”

    Anyway, as a percentage, the argument is pretty strong that women are unusually bad at politics. Maxine, Nancy, Sheila, Barbara, Valerie, Loretta, and any number of feminist leaders the past few decades are disasters. Well, how many females are in high-level roles? Now divide by these fools. The percentage is ridiculously high.

    Condoleezaa, Maggie, Nikki Haley, and a few others, most all to the right of the spectrum, have been good, to great.

    Where is the continued outrage over the chillllllldren who were displaced by our border enforcement? This was the horror of horrors a month ago. Today? Where are all the women? Why are they still not screaming for solutions? This issue is right in the traditional women-power wheelhouse. And now? Crickets.

    Ed from SFV (6d42fa)

  36. Well, since Buick never had a badge cousin to the Chevy Suburban, this will have to do: http://www.hemmings.com/blog/2011/02/06/hemmings-find-of-the-day-1976-buick-estate-wagon/

    urbanleftbehind (07ab46)

  37. well they are maladroit at public policy, but that doesn’t mean they go away,

    http://dailycaller.com/2018/08/10/mosque-imam-new-mexico-jihadi-propaganda/

    narciso (d1f714)

  38. mg, I take you for a neanderthal bigot. So that’s ok.

    Tillman (d34303)

  39. @34

    Conservative commenter thinks conservative politicians are good, liberal politicians are bad. Amazing insight.

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  40. well those who live in the range of the sanchez sister, ay dios mo, I had Debbie dunce as my rep, so I sympathize, now the punchline is Crowley may come back on the looney party slate (acorn-working families) so kang or kodos,

    narciso (d1f714)

  41. yes auto mistake, is rather ethnocentric, so saad Abdul bill clay’s challenger, all crashed and burned,

    narciso (d1f714)

  42. Thats a really bad omen for our future in the MO packed district (Gephardt land is no more), for a certain more exotically named chap who supposedly was born in Hawaii lost a Democratic primary in 2000 for the South Side CD to former Panther but now closet Uncle Ruckus Bobby Rush.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  43. #34, Ed, your questions are so much more salient than our resident trolls can handle, expect them to either be ignored or misrepresented.

    ropelight (02db6f)

  44. So much of Ocasio-Cortez reminds me of President Trump: not well informed, no real understanding of political philosophies, no understanding of how government works, policies and procedure, rambles on to distract and obfuscate, etc. Funny, that.

    Let’s just say you aren’t the first to point out the similarities here…

    :)

    She won’t achieve truly Trumpian levels of beclownment until she promises to make Canada pay for her single-payer health plan, though.

    Dave (445e97)

  45. Thats the Michigan gubernatorial D primary you are thinking of, where the 2 “exotics” split the opposing vote against Gretchen Whitmer.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  46. 44, reason number 894,975,974,355 she’s a plant, maybe some Donnie Jr. jump-off or an Apprentice next rounder

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  47. well we have another rocket surgeon, in my district, I think he’s chloe Sevigny’s (from last days of disco) brother,

    narciso (d1f714)

  48. If true, I’m not sure which is more disturbing, that Trump eats paper or uses the n-word behind closed doors.

    Paul Montagu (cbbfc4)

  49. meawhile the press is still covering events in new mexico with a pillow,

    narciso (d1f714)

  50. “Ugh. To make an assertion of sexism is not a well thought-out response, and is instead a painfully manipulative and calculated response that has the potential to help diminish viable claims of actual sexual harassment.”

    The second part of that sentence contradicts the first. Of COURSE young and prettier-than-average Democrat chicks are going to trade on their femininity.

    “This is not what women on either side of the aisle need.”

    ‘want’ is another question entirely, though.

    “It’s a disingenuous political ploy that is easily seen through.”

    Is it though? More specifically, is it ‘seen through’ by a general electorate and people on her side? Or is it more likely to be tolerated and encouraged?

    “Further, if Ocasio-Cortez really didn’t believe she owed Shapiro a response, then why on earth did she? Why not just ignore him? After all, he’s not a politician running for office, he’s not anyone who can further her cause. Why even acknowledge his existence?”

    Because Ben Shapiro is THE DESIGNATED GO-TO MAINSTREAM RIGHTIST and rejecting him out of hand and implying that he’s creepy for reaching out (he is pretty off-putting and autistic on the radio) is a time-honored reliable way to build yourself up for the MSNBC liberal church lady crowd.

    “Someone needs to set this girl straight. She is shooting herself in the foot every time she opens her mouth. And as I have always maintained, the most unattractive look a woman can wear is the look of desperation.”

    Definitely can’t argue with Little Miss Sanpaku Eyes but she’s still the prettiest thing on the Democrat side and that forgives a multitude of sins, matter of fact having her consistently complain about being ‘attacked’ sounds way more convincing from her than Hillary.

    The proper tactic for women like this is ‘open paternal teasing’ but so far only Trump seems to be able to do it consistently and effectively. Maybe you should learn from him?

    Steppe Nomad (8a9be8)

  51. 49, the real question in the spinoff series Breaking Baath is: “were the perps in enough of a position to sell themselves as a provider of what was known earlier this summer as “tender care”?”

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  52. Off Topic, but what a hoot! What is wrong with this judge, anyway?

    Judge T.S. Ellis returned to the courtroom at 2:22 p.m. ET, more than a half hour after they were scheduled to reconvene. After conferring with attorneys for the prosecution and defense briefly, Ellis said: “Mr. Andres, you may call your next witness.”
    Prosecutor Greg Andres reminded him the jury still needed to be brought in.
    The courtroom erupted in laughter.

    https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/10/politics/paul-manafort-trial-day-nine/index.html

    Tillman (d34303)

  53. No that would be breaking shaheed, seriously where is the most cursory supervision?

    Narciso (677193)

  54. Haiku: “just sayin’! She’s easy on the eyes until you see that look in her eyes.”

    https://i.redd.it/rd3lx41on8711.jpg

    harkin (096d35)

  55. p.s., I hope Judge Ellis didn’t cry.

    Tillman (d34303)

  56. “….the Al Franken Buick has had the trunk stuffed and has been deployed…”

    I was on a project in Minneapolis when that went down. Will never forget sitting in a bar listening to a bunch of Dems celebrating, openly admitting they had just stolen a seat in the Senate and how easy it was.

    Watching that potato bug get the James Bond ejector seat treatment from his own party was worth the wait.

    harkin (096d35)

  57. Greg Andres faced off the bonanno crime family and he’s unnerved by some questions?

    Narciso (677193)

  58. 38… “Hypocrite heal thyself”

    Colonel Haiku (b5bc8f)

  59. Amen, harkin. We gets our grins when and where we can…

    Colonel Haiku (b5bc8f)

  60. Should we be as concerned about how government works versus how it should and was supposed to work? Why such deference for a broken system?

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  61. ocasio-cortez answer tax the rich feed the poor tax the rich till they aint rich no more.

    wendell (6922b8)

  62. 54… harkin, those eyes are the result of one of three possible things:

    1. True political fanaticism
    2. Thyroid condition (e.g., Graves’ disease)
    3. Some damn fine Bolivian Marching Powder

    But one musn’t rule out a combination…

    Colonel Haiku (b5bc8f)

  63. not a real socialist actually new deal democrat that now sounds socialistic. medicare for all and free college tuition not taking over general motors and she will be hard to debate. if she asks ben shapiro not only don’t you believe in medicare for all you don’t believe in medicare for anybody and want to end it same with social security. you will say right on end it. majority of voters say different. thats why trump beat the 16 bozo’s!

    wendell (6922b8)

  64. Alexandra ocasio-cortez is now america’s sweet heart. Sort of patty hearst in reverse where she takes us hostages. As democrat partys new face she is now getting top notch handlers and pr people to deal with trouble as the catcalling deflection of shapiro now shows.

    wendell (6922b8)

  65. “……..those eyes are the result of one of three possible things:

    1. True political fanaticism
    2. Thyroid condition (e.g., Graves’ disease)
    3. Some damn fine Bolivian Marching Powder

    _

    I’d like to offer:

    4. She simply believes the hype machine.

    She’s Obama v2 with even less gravitas & smarts. I’m not yet sure if she’s even smart enough to be Obama-style disingenuous or if she’s just a lefty parrot.

    A debate with Shapiro would help illuminate but that’s the last thing they want……..so squeal ‘catcalling!’ Her defenders dont even realize that she declared offering her a chance to explain her positions to be “bad intentions”…..lol indeed.

    harkin (096d35)

  66. “National Lampoon’s Extended Vacation”

    “On August 7, the New York Times ran a story by Rukmini Callamachi about Jay Austin and Lauren Geoghegan, a young American couple, both graduates of Georgetown University, who decided to quit their humdrum office jobs and go on an epic bike ride and camping trip that would take them all over the world. “I’ve grown tired of spending the best hours of my day in front of a glowing rectangle, of coloring the best years of my life in swaths of grey and beige,” Austin wrote. “I’ve missed too many sunsets while my back was turned.”

    So in July of last year, they flew from Washington, D.C., to Cape Town, and from there bicycled through South Africa, Namibia, Botswana, Zambia, and Malawi to Dar es Salaam, Tanzania. From there, they flew to Cairo, and after seeing the pyramids flew on to Casablanca, from which they cycled through Morocco, Spain, France, Monaco, Italy, Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Montenegro, Albania, Kosovo, Macedonia, Bulgaria, and Greece, to Turkey. From there, another flight took them to Kazakhstan. They biked through Kyrgyzstan and entered Tajikistan. It was in that country that their journey came to an abrupt end this past July 29, when five ISIS members deliberately plowed their car into the two adventurers, killing them along with two temporary cycling companions, one from Switzerland and the other from the Netherlands. “Two days later,” wrote Callimachi, “the Islamic State released a video showing five men it identified as the attackers, sitting before the ISIS flag. They face the camera and make a vow: to kill ‘disbelievers.’”

    https://pjmedia.com/trending/death-by-entitlement/

    Colonel Haiku (b5bc8f)

  67. Theer are evil ideologies in the world, more of them and/or more active at some times than at others, and it is important that people be kept abreast of the fcats.

    They went somewhere where something was going on that they probably had no idea about.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  68. 52.

    What is wrong with this judge, anyway?

    He gt alittle bit too interested in speeding things along.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/09/us/politics/judge-ellis-manafort-trial.html

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  69. She did miss out on the chance to debate whether or not Shapiro is actually 5’9″

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  70. It’s clear that manafort was not completely on top of teh details of what he was doing and it looks like one thing he hired gates for was to keep his taxes low, and, later, to keep banks lending him money. There is some testimony as to his direct involvement like asking how to edit a PDF. He also told Gates (to do better) when he first gave him his 2015 tax return.

    All this is separate from working as an unregistered foreign agent, whichs a rarely prosecuted crime. Which in turn is separate from why and how he got involved in the Trump campaign, working for no charge.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  71. I’m willing to offer $10,000 to your campaign, today

    Doesn’t that exceed the maximum personal contribution limit by almost a factor of 4? Is that legal for a PAC?

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  72. What’s really bad with Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is why certain things (which are far from correct or reasonable) are the default)

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  73. 3. Narciso (370326) — 8/10/2018 @ 9:09 am

    she’s about as ignorant as Obama, yet they let this pass 2008, she has a whole host of notions that have nothing to do with the real world

    I think much more ignorant, and Obama really knew when he wsas wrong, and Obama extrapolated from what he knew a lot better.

    You;d never catch Obama saying that while the uneployment rate is low, “everyone” has two jobs.

    She’s worse at extrapolation and has less to extrapolate from. She may share the need to sign on to things. But she’s signed on to more.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  74. 70… you’re a heightist Cthulhu! 🦑

    Colonel Haiku (b5bc8f)

  75. O/T. But noteworthy; it was 50 years ago today, August 10, 1968, NASA managers quietly began discussions w/t crew of Apollo 8 on the possibility of retargeting their mission as a lunar orbit flight for December, 1968, subject to the success of Apollo 7, scheduled for October. The change in mission planning was motivated by CIA intel suggesting Soviet Russia was preparing a circumlunar flight of their own compounded by delays at Grumman w/t Apollo Lunar Module. On this date in ’68, no crewed Apollo spacecraft, reengineered after the deadly Apollo 1 fire 17 months earlier, had yet to fly. And the Apollo 8 crew had just four and a half months to train for the half-million mile flight out to Luna and back to Earth.

    The rest is history.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  76. Obama right out of Harvard law, didn’t agree to run for office, that was when he decided his memoir should be written

    narciso (d1f714)

  77. with what booster, disco, their energia, had been put out of commission, around that time,

    narciso (d1f714)

  78. this is what the like of ocasio cortez, do to young people, given half the chance:

    https://www.caracaschronicles.com/2018/08/10/juan-requesens-politicians-must-assume-risks-others-wont-take/

    narciso (d1f714)

  79. Work on the Energia booster did not even begin until 1976.

    Dave (445e97)

  80. The feared Russian lunar flyby (unlike Apollo 8, it was not intended to enter lunar orbit, but loop around the moon once on a free-return trajectory similar to that used by Apollo 13) was supposed to be launched by the UR-50K Proton rocket, and use the Zond spacecraft.

    The configuration of the possible subsequent Russian lunar landing involved entirely different spacecraft and launch vehicles.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_crewed_lunar_programs

    Dave (445e97)

  81. UR-*500K

    Dave (445e97)

  82. Doesn’t that exceed the maximum personal contribution limit by almost a factor of 4? Is that legal for a PAC?

    I wondered the same thing. By what I can glean from the FEC website, you can designate donations to (possible) future elections as well as the current election cycle.

    Dave (445e97)

  83. @78. The Colludin’ Cuban is behind the curve today; such is the nature of same.

    @81. Right; Zond/Proton config. U.S. intel resources made NASA managers aware.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  84. @78. Postscript. You’re confusing the Energia w/t N1. Details of its development and failed flight history have only really come to light in the past decade or two although U.S. intel was aware of it in the ’68/’69 time frame. The Zond/Proton config., was what they had to give a human-crewed circumlunar flight a try but given its flight history and risk of failure, opted not to try w/a cosmonaut aboard in that time frame.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  85. Lol via the Babylon Bee:

    “NEW YORK, NY—Star Democratic political candidate Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez finally accepted a challenge to debate her economic plan with Count von Count, esteemed number expert from Sesame Street, on a special guest appearance that aired Friday.

    The congressional candidate got into a heated exchange with the legendary counting expert, fumbling her words as he calmly tallied up the trillions of dollars she hadn’t accounted for in her proposals.

    “The number of the day is… 30 trillion dollars! Ah! Ah! Ah!” the Count began in his opening statement, as a number “30” puppet followed by a bunch of zeroes started dancing behind him. “Vhat is your plan for vinding this kind of money?”

    “Like, we like, pay for other things and just like, invent money and stuff to pay for national security and stuff, so why can’t we invent trillions for making jobs and healthcare and education?” she responded, but the Count was ready with a helpful chart that pointed out that the existing programs she referred to didn’t total anywhere near the cost of her proposals.“

    https://babylonbee.com/news/ocasio-cortez-appears-on-sesame-street-to-debate-economic-plan-with-the-count/

    harkin (096d35)

  86. And still playing her game. It don’t matter how much dinero we have collectively. Wealth does not belong to the collective. It belongs to the individual persons who earned it. Other individuals are not entitled to have it spent on them just because they successfully swam the Rio Grande or stowed away on the banana boat.

    nk (dbc370)

  87. “Blue Emu Aftershave and Cologne… for teh Discriminating Codger”

    “… and it won’t stink!” —- ASPCA

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  88. Newspaper calls for coordinated attack against Trump

    I guess they’ve been asleep since he won the nomination.

    harkin (096d35)

  89. The point was their ambition exceeded their capability, also after korolev departed, the vision did as well.

    narciso (d1f714)

  90. In that instance, we have the reverse of the sputnik breakthrough a decade before.

    https://jalopnik.com/this-insane-rocket-is-why-the-soviet-union-never-made-i-1448356326

    narciso (d1f714)

  91. i like ben shapiro but he’s an inside joke at best

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  92. Amusing update added.

    Dana (023079)

  93. She was not looking to debate Crowley in good faith. She was just catcalling him.

    I’m not (entirely) joking. That’s actually a pretty common stunt for unknowns looking to get a little publicity at the expense of the better known opponent. Show up with a camera crew and challenge him or her to a debate.

    I imagine she suspects Shapiro of trying to do the same thing with her. And I further imagine that she is probably right … err make that correct.

    nk (dbc370)

  94. No I think he means that sincerely. Just like that former police in Venezuela who admitted his group was behind the drone attack, sincere but I’ll considered.

    Narciso (91438f)

  95. @88. Colon’el? Try Preparation H, mate.

    Then Visine; it gets the Red out.

    Still ripe, Helstinki.

    Honor America: shower.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  96. Somebody want to close her bold tag?

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  97. Rashide tlaib another democratic soc. just won her primary in detroit’s heavily democrat district. More primaries to come! Shapiro wants to talk about traditional socialism such as government ownership of means of production. All these democratic socialists running have to say is I’m running on medicare for all, free college tuition and 15 dollar minimum wage. If you want to talk about government takeover of general motors and the banks which nearly happened under capitalists talk to somebody else. Now you don’t believe in medicare for anybody and privatizing or doing away with social security and your 16 bozos were defeated by trump who said no! Ask the american people do you want to get rid of medicare and social security or get rid of ben shapiro lets see which they choose. Now thats a real debate!

    wendell (dce9b7)

  98. Well she did topple the Conyers dynasty I’ll give her that.

    Narciso (00a309)

  99. @96 OH LOOK IS DCSCA EMPTY-QUOTING HIS INANE REPLIES TO FILL SPACE AND PUSH THE RUSSIA NARRATIVE? GUESS I HAVE TO PUNISH HIM AGAIN!

    ““Do I think Russia is spying on us and being sneakily provocative? Hell yes. Do I trust their government or their leader? 100% no. But…

    The Russian intelligence services aren’t recording and storing every call, text, and e-mail made in the US. That would be our own NSA, which stores all that in their yottabyte(!)-capacity facility in Utah.

    Putin and the Russian army didn’t fund, train, and encourage ISIS, that would be elements in our own intelligence community, some say CIA, but really, who cares exactly who it was (is). It sure as hell wasn’t Spetznaz.

    The Russians didn’t decide, while US troops were busily engaged in a long, exhausting counterinsurgency, that those very same fighters were the most likely people to engage in domestic terrorism. That would have been Janet Napolitano and Homeland Security.

    GRU agents weren’t the ones harassing and targeting honest (if a little naive) tea party people. That would have been our very own IRS.

    Russian internal security people aren’t the ones pulling old ladies and little girls aside at the airport and molesting them – we have our own TSA to thank for that.

    Russia Today/Pravda/TASS/etc weren’t the ones that told us that Trayvon was an innocent 12 year old, that Mike Brown was a gentle giant, that Bruce Jenner had always been at war with Eastasia, er, been a woman, or that Mitt Romney(!) wanted to kill your grandmother. Our very own MSM was quite capable of that all on their own.

    Russia’s foreign ministry wasn’t the agency that decided that Libya, Egypt, Syria, Yemen, etc. needed to be destabilized and turned into nightmarish abbatoirs. That was OUR own Department of State.

    And remember, at every opportunity, DCSCA has firmly put himself on the side of Team Abbatoir”

    Steppe Nomad (e6ec7d)

  100. The Russian intelligence services aren’t recording and storing every call, text, and e-mail made in the US.

    Yes, yes, they are. And so are the Chinese for a sure bet. And not only in the US but worldwide.

    And how much is Putin paying you for all this anti-American, anti-West propaganda? Are you even an American or is Steppe Nomad a broad hint, you neo-Commie Russkie-lover?

    nk (dbc370)

  101. it’s called sorm, oddly their presence was not listed in the dogs breath, mueller presented as an indictment,

    narciso (d1f714)

  102. @100. Do Ukraine girls really knock you out when you leave the West behind? Do Moscow girls make you sing and shout? Is Vladimir always on your my, my, my mind? Were you shown ’round the snow peaked mountains way down South? Were you taken to your daddy’s farm? Did you hear the balalaika’s ringing out? Do you keep your comrades warned? Back in the USSR?

    “Sell crazy someplace else; we’re all full up here.” – Melvin Udall [Jack Nicholson] ‘As Good As It Gets’ 1997

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  103. Well Ukrainian girls have the blond from the German influence, now Georgian girls see Elena satine.

    Narciso (ae9f41)

  104. From magic city, agents of shield and most recently the gifted, if you want someone who can play anything from southrtn California gal (veronica mars) to Russian spy (burn notice) that would be alona tal she’s Israeli. No famke Jansen nor lena olin can really play western european

    narciso (d1f714)

  105. Olga kurylenko (quantum, November man, oblivion) is Ukrainian and french, as you can surmise anyone could do better than Jennifer Lawrence.

    narciso (d1f714)

  106. pedophile Mitt Romney who grew up in a church what refused to ordain black people says racism is icky

    signalsignalvirtuevirtue

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  107. Mitt is like two left shoes, did he get the memo about the stand down order,

    narciso (d1f714)

  108. What does the book of mormons say about black people? Only when mormon church was about to have their tax except status taken away for being a racist institution did the church decide well maybe black people are not “FILTH” (about 36 hours before they were do in court!) The god from the planet moroni works pretty fast when he has too! Mitt your magic under ware is on too tight!

    wendell (53a0cb)

  109. In the first place, it’s Minnesota. Furthermore, it’s Minnesota. And when you really come down to it, it’s Minnesota.

    nk (dbc370)

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