Patterico's Pontifications

8/8/2018

Everybody Is Going Insane

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:59 am



Many Republicans think Donald Trump should be able to shut down the media:

All told, 43 percent of self-identified Republicans said that they believed “the president should have the authority to close news outlets engaged in bad behavior.” Only 36 percent disagreed with that statement. When asked if Trump should close down specific outlets, including CNN, The Washington Post, and The New York Times, nearly a quarter of Republicans (23 percent) agreed and 49 percent disagreed.

Meanwhile, CNN publishes an opinion piece from a woman who wants to treat hate speech as a form of “terrorism”:

The stripping of InfoWars from Facebook, Apple and other platforms is an important step in the recognition of nativist, nationalist and white supremacist hate speech as a form of terrorism.

In the aftermath of the decision of various service providers to stop carrying InfoWars content, there are many who will say that this represents an unprecedented affront to free speech and First Amendment rights. As a Muslim-American who has seen the detestable anti-Muslim propaganda of InfoWars content replicated across the worldwide web and popularized via Apple, Spotify and others, I know nothing could be farther from the truth.

I tend to think terrorism is the purest form of terrorism. I guess she disagrees.

Coming full circle: we don’t shut down CNN for publishing stupid opinions like that. We mock them. That’s how it’s done.

[Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.]

127 Responses to “Everybody Is Going Insane”

  1. Amen.

    Dave (445e97)

  2. Remember agrabah?

    Narciso (abb04b)

  3. But, blogmaster Patterico, nobody has a sense of humor anymore, so we can’t mock people and it isn’t fair to ask. We must instead shut them down. Seriously.

    Appalled (96665e)

  4. I think we should give as much credence to the Daily Beast poll as we should give to the averment of Rafia Zakaria.

    nk (dbc370)

  5. What constitutes bad behavior or part of the media?
    Exposing wartime secrets?
    Naming clandestine operatives?

    steveg (a9dcab)

  6. Speaking of everybody going insane, let’s not forget:

    40% of Republicans say Russia election meddling isn’t a big deal

    A Yahoo Finance/Survey Monkey poll finds 11% of Republicans say it would be appropriate for Russia to intervene in the upcoming U.S. elections on behalf of Trump and Republicans, and 29% say it would not be appropriate, but it wouldn’t be a big deal.

    The GOP is scandalized (and rightly so) by any suggestion of illegal immigrants voting in our elections but a large fraction seem to have no problem with the Russian military getting involved…

    Dave (445e97)

  7. Oops
    What constitutes bad behavior on the part of the media

    steveg (a9dcab)

  8. Look at which side of the political spectrum is actually shutting dow/impeding free speech and keep the polls.

    harkin (096d35)

  9. The President can already “shut down” the media by denying access. Obama did this to Fox.
    Trump has punished CNN and a few others by not answering their questions.
    The media did a good job of policing itself around Obama by maintaining obeisance

    steveg (a9dcab)

  10. It’s not “insanity”, it’s just the long secret and one-sided war on conservatives turning into an open and two-sided one.

    HINT: Laws and norms that apply during peacetime do NOT apply during war.

    Steppe Nomad (e5649e)

  11. Let them fail on their own

    mg (9e54f8)

  12. So based on the 23% of the 13% is a neglible number.

    Narciso (b6aad3)

  13. And 49% disagreed, thanks for playing.

    Narciso (b6aad3)

  14. Right. I’m going to let a Muslim tell me what “terrorism” is.

    You’re partly right, somebody definitely is going insane. Or, more accurately, is already there.

    tom swift (dd9ac2)

  15. it’s your thang

    do what you wanna do

    happyfeet (12e381)

  16. dave — when Russian soldiers begin casting ballots in US elections that cancel out my legitimate vote, I’ll be as concerned about Russian interference as I am about Dems waving millions across the border to vote for Dem candidates using mechanisms like “motor voter” and driver’s licenses for illegal aliens.

    Were you heartened — as I was — by the decision of DOJ to instruct prosecutors to return to using the language of the stature referring to illegal aliens as both “illegal” and “aliens” rather than the lefty colloquialism “undocumented immigrants”?.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  17. “…nobody has a sense of humor anymore, so we can’t mock people and it isn’t fair to ask.”

    I take exception to this remark. I never had a sense of humour and anyone who knows me can attest as much.

    I simply had to admit that even I didn’t particularly want to live in a society of nothing but humourless scolds like me.

    Stephen J. (308ea7)

  18. #16 Did you ever consider for a minute the pain others feel, simply because of your white male privileged existence? Your very birth offends me!! (Top that, sucker! I dare y’all.)

    Appalled (4d41fd)

  19. Yay! Mockery! It’s all we have!

    Dejectedhead (daee2b)

  20. Hate speech as a form of ‘terrorism’ is a “stupid” opinion?

    You’d likely get an argument from German Jews circa 1937 on that one.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  21. Many Republicans think Donald Trump should be able to shut down the media

    The faster they circle the drain, the dizzier they get.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  22. “Your very birth offends me!! (Top that, sucker! I dare y’all.)”

    My birth offends you? Trust me, pally, you ain’t the one gotta look at this face in the mirror every morning! Why d’ya think I put whisky in my morning coffee?

    Heck, you shoulda talked to my mother; the fuss she raised after I was born, the hospital’s maternity ward had to put up a strict “NO RETURNS” sign. Better than my wife, though; she tried to hit me with a honey trap to get a divorce, ‘cept the agents always saw me in the bars and then insisted on giving her her money back!

    No respect, I tells ya; I don’t get no respect.

    Stephen J. (f77922)

  23. The family of Noah Pozner, pne of the chidren killed by the Sandy Hook killer, has moved seven times to get away from the threats and harassment and fear, according to Linda Stasi in today’s New York Daily News. That may be an example of terrorism, but the threats and harassment probably weren’t caused by Alex Jones, and almost certainly not just by what he posted on Facebook and YouTube and broadcast. (and if they were he could be prosecuted for that.)

    There has to be somebody else actively doing that. Alex Jones may be in league with them, but that which is visible is not the real source.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  24. Re: those polls. A lot of people aren’t that well educated, and you could find people in that range to sign on to a lot of things, especially when asked in a casual manner..

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  25. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YFk4rfw1ZI

    ‘The way it was’- 44 years ago today, August 8, 1974

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLHc8NR_v-8

    History rhymes.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  26. Try the veal, and tip the waitress.

    narciso (d1f714)

  27. Everybody Is Going Insane

    Everybody:

    TED CRUZ ASKS TRUMP TO CAMPAIGN FOR HIM

    http://www.chron.com/news/politics/texas/article/Ted-Cruz-asks-Trump-to-campaign-for-him-13138353.php

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  28. Damn, that Cruz is such an idiot, asking the President of the United States who carried Texas for his own election, to come to Texas and say nice things about him and tell Texans to vote for him. What is he thinking?

    nk (dbc370)

  29. The Koran is hate speach!

    ropelight (d7888d)

  30. 29, it sounds like a good idea until “Heidi” and “owe” come up in the same sentence.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  31. A member of a religion that traditionally expanded by infiltrating their people in ‘peacefully’ and then slowly ratcheting up the violence and illegal infiltration until the area was under their control apparently has something to say:

    “In the aftermath of the decision of various service providers to stop carrying InfoWars content, there are many who will say that this represents an unprecedented affront to free speech and First Amendment rights. As a Muslim-American who has seen the detestable anti-Muslim propaganda of InfoWars content replicated across the worldwide web and popularized via Apple, Spotify and others, I know nothing could be farther from the truth.”

    Infowars published true accounts of migrant rape and she’s MAD, MAD, MAD. Also remember that the deletion of Jones’ youtube channel is *permanent*. Those videos, including the ones that were newsy, unique, exclusive, and notable outside of simply being an Alex Jones fan, are *gone* – as if every single library in America burned an idolatrous author’s books all at once.

    No surprise that the main justification for banning Jones apart from the Sandy Hook thing was the dreaded ISLAMOPHOBIA.

    Also no big surprise the liberals are the side of a religion that has a pretty good track record of burning libraries (and then later when some of the past research is recovered, claiming that it was they who discovered it all along!) Fits their ‘forever at war’ mindset perfectly.

    Steppe Nomad (d0028e)

  32. Hate speech as a form of ‘terrorism’ is a “stupid” opinion?

    You’d likely get an argument from German Jews circa 1937 on that one.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 8/8/2018 @ 11:23 am

    It’s actually pretty terrible to make this argument. Why do we remember the holocaust? Is it because of ugly words and hurt feelings? Or is it the millions of people mass murdered by the government that incidentally had no respect for basic human rights like the right to say politically wrong opinions?

    The holocaust was worse than Alex Jones. Alex Jones is a nothing punchline. Granted, hateful racism had a lot to do with the holocaust, but the answer to hateful racism, particularly in 2018, is to respond with words. Almost everyone agrees that racism is irrational and evil, so why the need to ban speech? The threat from governments blocking speech is far too serious to sarcastically lump all words you don’t like in with literally Hitler.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  33. @29. Yes, what IS he thinking:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqFqskSACFM

    So come on down to Texas and save my Canadian bacon, Donald. The only bigger ass in America than Ted Cruz is stitched to the butt end of the King Kong exhibit at Universal Studios/Orlando.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  34. @35. Except it’s not.

    Blow on the embers, spark the fire. That’s how it goes.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  35. More to the point, as flemming rose discovered weimat war hate crime laws, actually worked in favor of hitler, Goering and other figures.

    narciso (d1f714)

  36. @37

    I am shocked, SHOCKED, to find that DCSA had chosen to throw in his lot in the Free Speech wars with Team It’s Always 1940, or perhaps more accurate would be It’s Always 1984.

    No doubt his past indelicate statements are going to get memory-holed along with the New York Times’ past comments about Roseanne Barr:

    https://imgur.com/9Pr66b2

    Steppe Nomad (1231f6)

  37. @33. See #36. Pass the gravy?

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  38. @35. Except it’s not.

    Blow on the embers, spark the fire. That’s how it goes.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 8/8/2018 @ 12:12 pm

    So you believe that Alex Jones was going to inspire another literal holocaust?

    The truth is you’re getting the wrong principle. The problem with Hitler and the Nazis wasn’t that they were racist. The problem was that the people did not have basic human rights protections due to a fascist government. In other words, by supporting the removal of the human right of ‘free speech’, you would take us in that dangerous direction.

    You would do it because of good intentions. Indeed a lot of bad things come from good intentions.

    But no, a tweet is not the holocaust. The ability to say terrible things on the internet is not the holocaust. It’s OK to recognize that, and it doesn’t mean someone isn’t sufficiently politically correct if they can make these distinctions. Hell, most ugly stuff we read doesn’t matter at all unless we choose to make it matter, which we shouldn’t btw.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  39. Excerpt from Linda Stasi in today’s New York Daily News: (page 16 in the printed paper)

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny-stasi-20180807-story.html

    And let’s remember that Facebook’s newly-discovered conscience was only found after the Sandy Hook family’s lawsuit went public. But Facebook, et. al, claims nonetheless that Jones was removed “for glorifying violence, which violates our graphic violence policy, and using dehumanizing language to describe people who are transgender, Muslims and immigrants, which violates our hate speech policies.”

    It took them how many years and how many hate-inciting Jones’ rants to make that decision?

    It took Facebook one minute to recently block a column of mine about Cynthia Nixon’s run for governor. I demanded answers from them for doing so and was told that “users” reported it as abusive. What users? Cynthia Nixon’s users? Then FB changed their minds and told me that my column didn’t meet community standards, and then they changed it again and said they pulled it because they thought it was spam. Finally they said it wasn’t their fault and it was pulled by mistake. Or something.

    The Internet went bonkers when I reported it publicly. No, not because “users” necessarily agreed with what the column said, but because Facebook seemed to be blocking my right to say it.

    Meantime, FB let Jones go on hurting and inciting violence and hatred, anti-Semitism and racism. I just said Cynthia Nixon wasn’t qualified to be governor.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  40. What it is this that there are probably certain people who successfully lobbied these organizatins to keep certain kinds of criticism of them off their platforms. Facebook probably established internal rules as to when they would be justified in removing something. It probably had a little something to do with the type of complaint they received. They kept their rules secret, and even kept secret that they had rules with the idea that that way they couldn’t be manipulated.

    But the people who had lobbied them knew the rules.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  41. So farrakhan is ok, except for Netflix, those vandals that call themselves antifa, how about Al sharpton who was set brushfires for 30 years

    narciso (d1f714)

  42. #22 I think I’m taking on some guy on the internet, and I get Rodney Dangerfield. Comedy is tough (but the veal is tougher.)

    Appalled (96665e)

  43. Apologies to the great Tom Lehrer:

    Gather ’round while I sing you of Canadian Cruz,
    A man whose allegiance is ruled by expedience;
    Call him unprincipled for changing his views,
    “Principles, schminciples,” coos Canadian Cruz

    Don’t say that he’s hypocritical,
    Say rather that he’s quite political;
    “Donald, I’m desperate, so come down and make news!
    Bygones be bygones,” coos Canadian Cruz

    Some have harsh words for his bait and switch ruse,
    But some say their attitude should be one of gratitude;
    Like the wife and the father; their honor abused,
    So easily betrayed by Canadian Cruz

    To become a conservative hero;
    Just show Texans you’ll stand up for zero;
    “In Calgary ‘oder’ Houston, I have proved I can lose,
    And I’ll prove it again,” coos Canadian Cruz

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  44. 41. Dustin (ba94b2) — 8/8/2018 @ 12:33 pm

    The problem with Hitler and the Nazis wasn’t that they were racist. The problem was that the people did not have basic human rights protections due to a fascist government.

    During and after World War II, they overrated the importance of Josef Goebbels and Julius Streicher, although they could have been important in getting people to participate in evil, and also maybe in fooling people about Nazi intentions.

    Because Goebbels committed suicide, they substituted his deputy Hans Fritzsche at Nuremberg where he was charged with charged with conspiracy to commit crimes against peace, war crimes and crimes against humanity, (three of the four charges they had – the other was the seizure of power in 1933)

    But he was acquitted because he had no real responsibility. Wikipedia says that after being acquitted, Fritzsche worked with the prosecution where he showed “remarkable” knowledge of the press directives from the Nazi government, including knowledge of the planned invasion of Poland four months before it occurred, which maybe could have been an argument for his conviction.

    He was later tried by a West German denazification court and was sentenced to nine years and released after about three years and three years later, in 1953, he died of cancer

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  45. @41. Rest easy; mimeograph machines go for about a hundred bucks on eBay, Office Depot often has sales on paper and there are plenty of street corners on the planet for Alex to pass out hand bills.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  46. News about the poll…is fake:

    “The large majority of Americans, 85%, agree that the “Freedom of the press is essential for American democracy.” Additionally, two-thirds (68%) say that “reporters should be protected from pressure from government or big business interests.” Majorities of both Democrats and Republicans agree with these two statements signaling deep support for the concept of freedom of the press.”

    That is from the firm that did the poll.

    26% of Americans say they agree “the president should have the authority to close news outlets engaged in bad behavior”. Um, there is more than one way to interpret the phrase “bad behavior”

    “Most Americans (72%) think “it should be easier to sue reporters who knowingly publish false information.”

    Only 13% of Americans agree that “President Trump should close down mainstream news outlets, like CNN, the Washington Post and the New York Times.” Look how the number drops when you change from “bad behavior” to specific news organizations.

    Less than a quarter of Republicans (23%) agree along with fewer than one in ten Democrats (8%).

    So, meh. I’d like less than 23% of Republicans to agree, but I’m not overly concerned.

    Take these kind of “polls” with a hefty grain of salt.

    George Orwell's Ghost (ba96d1)

  47. There were also a whole host of enabling officials, abs at Deutsche bank, figures at ig farben, for whom the camps were constructed, then you have commandants and high officials like wagner mengele eichmann (who is the subject of operational finale) his deputy brunner who ended up in Syria.

    narciso (d1f714)

  48. @5.Greenlighting ‘My Mother The Car.’

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  49. 27. From the link:

    Almost immediately after the massacre of 20 little children, all under the age of seven, and six elementary school teachers and staff, the attacks on us began. Conspiracy groups and anti-government provocateurs began making claims on Facebook that the massacre was a hoax, that the murdered were so-called “crisis actors” and that their audience should rise up to “find out the truth” about our families. These claims and calls to action spread across Facebook like wildfire and, despite our pleas, were protected by Facebook.

    While terms you use, like “fake news” or “fringe conspiracy groups”, sound relatively innocuous, let me provide you with some insight into the effects of allowing your platform to continue to be used as an instrument to disseminate hate. We have endured online, telephone, and in-person harassment, abuse, and death threats. In fact, one of the abusers was sentenced to jail for credible death threats that she admitted in court she had uttered because she believed in online content created by these “fringe groups”. In order to protect ourselves and our surviving children, we have had to relocate numerous times. These groups use social media, including Facebook, to “hunt” us, posting our home address and videos of our house online. We are currently living in hiding. We are far from alone in our experiences, as many other families who have lost loved ones in mass shootings and other tragedies have reported the same continuing torment.

    Our families are in danger as a direct result of the hundreds of thousands of people who see and believe the lies and hate speech, which you have decided should be protected. What makes the entire situation all the more horrific is that we have had to wage an almost inconceivable battle with Facebook to provide us with the most basic of protections to remove the most offensive and incendiary content.

    And they say it is happening with some other mass shootings also.

    they founded the following 501.c.3 organization, with the goal of “Stopping the Continual and Intentional Torment of Victims.”

    http://www.honr.com

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  50. 48. It’s not the circulation of these claims, heartbreaking as it may be – it’s organising (and this does not just happen) the harassment and threats against people. Probably in ordrer to sht them up from contradicting what Akex Jones and others say,.

    I don’t know that the center of the conspiracy (to scare people into shutting up and not contradicting any of this, or maybe to scare people in advance) is Alex Jones – I kind of doubt that. It’s too big. and most of it is taking place offline.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  51. See how much fun it is when both sides act irresponable. left say no more good government liberal punching bags we won’t protect the system either! Both sides now destroy the enemy at what ever cost to the country. have fun!

    wendell (ea0cc4)

  52. The Daily Beast said it, P believes it, that settles it.

    Skorcher (5b282a)

  53. 45: “I think I’m taking on some guy on the internet, and I get Rodney Dangerfield.”

    Hey, I’m just grateful you recognized the schtick. I already feel like I’m too old to understand half the references everybody makes in these communities, and I’m not even 50 yet.

    Stephen J. (f77922)

  54. If I drive on a private toll road down in the OC with a full INFOWARS wrap on my 18 foot Box truck can the owner(s) of the toll road ban me?

    Lets say I get a little confused on my Bible names and get a bumper sticker that says African-Americans are descendants of Pork when I really meant Ham.

    Stupid. Racially insensitive. But can I drive on their road?

    steveg (a9dcab)

  55. If someone is offended by my bumpersticker while on their toll road, can those offended sue Toll Road Inc. ?

    steveg (a9dcab)

  56. The problem is, that working through Facebook and Google and Twitter and all the other politically correct cowards, she will be quite able to define all those things as “terrorism”, so long as they aren’t Muslim.

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  57. And once the private companies utterly stifle speech, there will be no one left to object when Trump comes for CNN.

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  58. And once the private companies utterly stifle speech, there will be no one left to object when Trump comes for CNN Schumer comes for Fox.

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  59. But can I drive on their road?

    In California, you could probably park that truck at the supermarket and ask people to sign a petition to make Muslims eat pork.

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  60. Steve–

    Let’s say Toll Road, Inc CAN ban you because it’s private property. Now, can the state pass a law preventing toll toad companies from banning bumper stickers?

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  61. I remember when the right to refuse service was posted in stores here and it was supposed to be code for no blacks allowed, but never saw it used in that way.
    There was also the old No shoes, No shirt, No Service sign, but all that went out the window with the gay wedding cake.
    Sure the cake shop owner has the right not to be compelled to put two grooms and a rainbow on the cake, but if a gay couple walks in, buys a cake and while in the store declare their intent to put two grooms on the cake along with a statue of Mercury buggering Flipper, the store owner has to still sell them the cake.
    The right to refuse service seems to be defined very narrowly as long as the customer pays the bill

    steveg (a9dcab)

  62. “I don’t know that the center of the conspiracy (to scare people into shutting up and not contradicting any of this, or maybe to scare people in advance) is Alex Jones – I kind of doubt that. It’s too big. and most of it is taking place offline.”

    The FBI’s various high-profile ‘known wolf’ failures with the Tsarnaevs, Khalid Almihdhar and Nawaf Alhazmi, the Bundy Ranch boys, not to mention their tendency to make huge busts by ‘infiltrating’ various low-level extremist groups and being That One Guy Always Advocating For Illegal Activity Now earned them far more than enough enmity and suspicion among a critical mass of crackpots as an organization on their own. Alex Jones may have capitalized on the mistrust, but it was always there, and as Comey, McCabe, and others high-profile liars have so painfully shown, always being renewed. He’s no more responsible for the mistrust and unhinged stalkers than Mark Steyn or Popehat.

    If you prosecute Alex Jones for this then you have to prosecute the entire media for what their ecosystem did to Steve Scalise and Ron Paul.

    Steppe Nomad (ac29e8)

  63. Less than a quarter of Republicans (23%) agree along with fewer than one in ten Democrats (8%).

    If you said “Fox News” instead of “CNN”, those numbers would swap. There are at least as many dishonest Democrats as Republicans.

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  64. “the right to refuse service” was mostly a statement in the face of laws denying such a right.

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  65. What if this private entity did this made up thing? Bet you’d be pretty outraged then.

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  66. if a gay couple walks in, buys a cake and while in the store declare their intent to put two grooms on the cake

    After they pay for it, it’s THEIR cake. They can decorate it with Satan buggering Jesus for all the cake shop owner has to say about it. The only thing he could say at that point is “don’t use my name.”

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  67. In the toll road instance it is not private property as much of the land underneath belongs to the public but I get your point.
    I think the courts would decide I have the right to my bumper sticker.

    There is no Facebook without fiber optic lines crossing through public easements.
    FB is connected to, and dependent on, public utility easements.
    They might be able to be forced to allow content protected by the first amendment

    steveg (a9dcab)

  68. Bet you’d be pretty outraged then.

    Dave, I can get outraged over a failure to use turn signals. But my outrage has nothing to do with much other than my frame of mind. Businesses that offer a conveyance to the general public, whether it is speech or travel or data, ought not be in the business of discriminating against users, except in some vary well-defined areas (e.g. drunk drivers, libelers, theft of content, etc).

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  69. steve,

    FB is easier than that. They engage in Interstate Commerce. Therefore they can be regulated.

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  70. Now, can the courts, absent Congress acting, force FB to allow all content (outside the normal 1stA exceptions)?

    Suppose they banned people from professing gayness? Pretty sure the courts would step in.
    Suppose they banned black people? Again, the courts would step in.
    Suppose they banned Republicans? And again, the courts would say no.

    So, already we have courts interfering with private company choices.

    Now, suppose they banned images of cigarettes? Or guns? Or speech denying the Holocaust? It starts depending on the court.

    Here is where I think Congress needs to act, as these are the kinds of areas where courts are too blunt an instrument and the bright lines are fuzzy. I have my preferences, and I am CERTAIN that Congress has the power, but trying to say what Congress WILL do is a fool’s errand.

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  71. THey suggest what they already want to do, they wanted to the power to go to war, without congressional authority, that’s what they accused the gop of doing in Iraq, they wanted to make policy without regard to evidence, they coined the ‘reality based community’ they have a whole taxonomy of what they consider ‘fake news’ so they throw out this poll,

    narciso (d1f714)

  72. Kevin M, I’ve decided that you are correct. Congress should definitely, right before the mid-term elections, affirm the right of a snake-oil salesman to hassle the families of a school shooting.

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  73. “if a gay couple walks in, buys a cake and while in the store declare their intent to put two grooms on the cake

    If the gay couple in Colorado had just bought a cake and added any decoration that signifies it was a gay wedding themselves, there would not have been a problem. They chose to have the state help them force the baker to do so.

    The baker has stated that he has many gay customers who buy there all the time, he has never refused them the right to buy anything prepared in his bakery.

    harkin (096d35)

  74. “40% of Republicans say Russia election meddling isn’t a big deal.” sheesh.

    They say that because it’s not.

    1) The “meddling” consisted of buying a few ads, of dubious value.
    2) There is exactly zero evidence Russian meddling had any impact on the election results.
    3) Ergo, it isn’t that big a deal.

    I would prefer they not meddle, but the level of meddling seems to be pretty minimal, and is likely occurring at about the same degree as it has for decades. Now, if the Russians were hacking voting machines, that would be a big deal. Or if they were handing political candidates bags of cash, say like the Chinese did with Clinton, I might be upset.

    Till then…yawn.

    I’m not happy about it. But I’m not anxious to go to war over it either. We already slapped sanctions on them…what else should we do? Send them a sternly worded note?

    Then there is this:

    “In later years, the KGB tried to stir up racial tensions in New York City by sending inflammatory forged publications to black activist groups and by setting off a bomb in a “Negro section of New York” and blaming it on the militant Jewish Defense League. Service A resorted to similar provocations throughout the 1970s and well into the 1980s, viewing race relations as the issue most likely to destabilize the U.S. political system and divide American society.”

    But those facebook ads!

    George Orwell's Ghost (ba96d1)

  75. @76. Alex has plenty of outlets…

    List of social networking websites:

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_social_networking_websites

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  76. So Eric Clanton, the bike lock thug, gets a free pass on his assault with a deadly weapon and attacking several people.

    Let’s see how many of our usual suspects pooh-pooh this act of terrorism.

    NJRob (0f6a27)

  77. Kevin M,

    > Businesses that offer a conveyance to the general public, whether it is speech or travel or data, ought not be in the business of discriminating against users, except in some vary well-defined areas (e.g. drunk drivers, libelers, theft of content, etc).

    how do you feel about net neutrality?

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  78. #78 — Thank you. Saved me from the bother of posting the common sense you wrote. Upvote to you.

    Bored Lawyer (88bf82)

  79. Is to say that Facebook is public carrier because people get it through fiber optic cable is like to say New York Times is public carrier because newsboy use sidewalk to bring to doorstep.

    Analogy is for people who not have real argument.

    Facebook is frivolous pastime that did not exist prior to 2004. Not necessary to anything and not necessity for anybody. Like mood ring or pet rock. Alex Jones even less necessary.

    nk (dbc370)

  80. Bravo Jeff Sessions:

    “On Wednesday, U.S. Attorney General Jeff Sessions denounced the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) for weaponizing its “hate group” designations against conservative organizations, and pledged that the Department of Justice (DOJ) will not partner with hate groups or groups that defame Americans. He spoke in front of the Alliance Defending Freedom (ADF), a Christian legal organization that has won 9 Supreme Court cases in the last seven years and that has been unfairly defamed as a “hate group” by the SPLC.

    “I have ordered a review at the Department of Justice to make sure that we do not partner with any groups that discriminate,” the attorney general declared. “We will not partner with groups that unfairly defame Americans for standing up for the Constitution or their faith.”

    https://pjmedia.com/trending/jeff-sessions-the-doj-will-not-partner-with-groups-that-unfairly-defame-americans-like-the-splc/

    harkin (096d35)

  81. Loser Libertarian talk:

    “Don’t like being cut off from the entire ecosystem of internet business and content distribution? Start your own!”

    WINNING talk:

    “Don’t want to be forbidden to censor content? Don’t become a general content distribution company!”

    Steppe Nomad (742796)

  82. Kevin M, I’ve decided that you are correct. Congress should definitely, right before the mid-term elections, affirm the right of a snake-oil salesman to hassle the families of a school shooting.

    No, Dave, I’ve decided that you are correct. The courts should state that all corporations are free to frack over whoever they think deserves it.

    Or do you really think that the assh0le at Infowars is the boundary they have in mind?

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  83. Seriously, has there ever been such a rock-solid, hardcore conservative who leans as far-left as ConDave?!?!?

    I tell you, he has broken teh mold!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  84. how do you feel about net neutrality?

    NEt neutrality — as presented — had nothing to do with content, other than maybe WHO’S content.

    It was about bandwidth and who had to provide it to whom. Does the Peoria cable company have to charge all its customers to provide sufficient system bandwidth, so that *some* customers can watch 4K Netflix 24/7? Or can they charge Netflix (and indirectly Netflix’s customers) for the necessary infrastructure.

    It had nothing to do with ensuring that FaceBook could not turn off a given users access. They did that then as well as now.

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  85. GENUINELY WINNING TALK:
    Alex Jones is banned from Facebook, YouTube and Apple, and there’s not a damn thing his fanbois can do about it except whine like the little whiny b!tches they are.

    nk (dbc370)

  86. Squid is predictable to a fault, those who were right about the Marxist question were treated like those that are right about the Islamist question now.

    Narciso (9a1aaf)

  87. 88 — to be fair that was c’thulhu.

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  88. Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, all of it is a sick form of vanity and narcissism. Wake teh EFF up, get a life!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  89. First they came for Alex Jones, and I despised him, so I did not act….

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  90. Of,course he’s just the canary in the coal mine, since the fcc won’t do their bidding.

    Narciso (9a1aaf)

  91. #69
    Agree completely.
    Several times now. Not sure if we are talking past each other or what

    steveg (a9dcab)

  92. My point was that FB at times is like the bakery… and also a bit like the toll road.
    In my opinion as long as FB uses/ pays for fiber over the public right of way, they should be held to first amendment free speech law. FB is buying space on fiber rights of way that belong to the people. That purchase of fiber time by FB is a purchase that comes with first amendment conditions.
    If FB was to build out its own fiber system and buy its own rights of way over private lands then of course it could be exclusionary

    steveg (a9dcab)

  93. Seriously, has there ever been such a rock-solid, hardcore conservative who leans as far-left as ConDave?!?!?

    Are you drunk? Otherwise, wtf are you even going on about?

    The only think I’ve written in this thread is that 40% of Republicans don’t think foreign military interference in our elections is a big deal.

    Thinking foreign military intervention in our elections is bad is “far-left” now?

    Dave (445e97)

  94. There is exactly zero evidence Russian meddling had any impact on the election results.

    I disagree:

    The Mueller indictment permanently demolishes the idea that the scale of the Russian campaign was not significant enough to have any impact on the American public. We are no longer talking about approximately $100,000 (paid in rubles, no less) of advertising grudgingly disclosed by Facebook, but tens of millions of dollars spent over several years to build a broad, sophisticated system that can influence American opinion.

    https://www.wired.com/story/did-russia-affect-the-2016-election-its-now-undeniable/

    Tillman (d34303)

  95. I think some people are of the opinion that the results of your thinking are less than desirable.
    So for you, watching cartoons instead of thinking and then writing would probably be seen by some as desirable in your case… is that a correct synopsis, or did I miss something?
    I don’t usually read your comments so correct me if I am wrong

    steveg (a9dcab)

  96. It is often helpful to name who you are talking to / about, steveg.

    Tillman (d34303)

  97. There is exactly zero evidence Russian meddling had any impact on the election results.

    And the identical argument (zero evidence that illegal voting has had any impact on election results) is made by those who don’t want to enforce ID requirements for voting and preserve the integrity of voter registration.

    In both cases, the absurd suggestion is that we should not worry until it does change our election results. But then it will be too late.

    Dave (445e97)

  98. Kevin M – is there anything whatsoever that would prevent *Comcast* from blocking all packets to and from patterico.com because they don’t like patterico’s politics?

    That’s what I want from net neutrality.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  99. Or, perhaps, the weaker version of that where they slow packets to and from patterico.com to the point where the site is unusable but they technically aren’t blocking it?

    I think that it’s *inevitable* that ISPs will bow to public pressure from one tribe or the other to do this sort of thing, unless they’re prevented from doing so by law.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  100. aphrael–

    There is nothing in NN that would override “terms of service ‘agreements'”, so long as they applied to everyone equally. Of course, what “applied equally” means in a subjective situation isn’t clear.

    Consider this, for example: https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/304258/

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  101. I think that it’s *inevitable* that ISPs will bow to public pressure from one tribe or the other to do this sort of thing, unless they’re prevented from doing so by law.

    As do I. But rather than open up the Box of Unintended Consequences with Network Neutrality (which also has Intended Consequences I don’t like), I’d rather just say “go read your first amendment casebook” because that’s how it is.

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  102. 100… Tillie… let’s take a look at the author of that wired article…

    Molly McKew’s Credentials
    Enter Molly McKew, a hot new voice in the media right now, but she is not an information warfare expert. Her credentials don’t qualify her to claim she has any specific information technology training or psychological experience.
    The fact is she’s a lobbyist.
    Her resume has her at KLR international then American Enterprise Institute until 2010, then McKew moved to the Podesta Group. (Bio:copied here) Her bio on Podesta Group identifies her as an International Specialist, who was educated at the London School of Economics, with a master’s degree in Russian and post-Soviet studies, and fluent in French and Russian.
    Her resume also identifies her as a registered foreign agent lobbying for the National Security Council and the presidency of Georgia between 2008 and 2013 under Mikheil Saakashvili. McKew currently has her own lobbying firm, Fianna Strategies. (Note: Her FARA records.)
    A journalist from Coda Story and Foreign Policy, Michael Colborne, found in McKew’s FARA record that her editor’s notes were not entirely accurate.
    Registered Agent Disclosure
    In 2014 McKew signed a services contract with Mikheil Saakashvili and his United National Movement party and the Liberal Democratic Party of Moldova, which was founded by Vlad Filat, a businessman caught up in a huge banking scandal in 2015, when he was prime minister. Filat is currently sitting in a jail celL…

    Podesta Group

    Colonel Haiku (b5bc8f)

  103. “Ohio race just got closer after county finds hundreds of uncounted votes.”

    Al Franken’s Buick has been deployed. That is all.

    Colonel Haiku (b5bc8f)

  104. podesta group, like the people who were also lobbying for ate although their in-house was a fmr feinstein staffer, ruffo.

    narciso (d1f714)

  105. Covering with pillows, vs striking with builders:
    http://dailycaller.com/2018/08/08/media-coverage-menendez-collins

    narciso (d1f714)

  106. Haiku,
    You’re research methods are lacking, to put it nicely.

    You don’t like that source? Here is more from CNN. If you don’t like CNN, simply google “how much did Russia spend on influencing the election” or similar statement.

    Internet Research Agency’s monthly budget for the project that included the US election interference operation exceeded 73 million Russian rubles, or over $1.25 million.

    Emphasis mine.
    https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/16/politics/mueller-russia-indictments-election-interference/index.html

    Tillman (d34303)

  107. You’re -> Your

    Tillman (d34303)

  108. I’d rather the Buick be roliing out to Topeka, Wichita or Overland Park – Garden City would be way too obvious and infruriating for the Jason Sudeikis stunt double.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  109. Tillie… she’s a political hack with an agenda.

    Colonel Haiku (b5bc8f)

  110. Kevin M – as a practical matter, when ISPs start doing that, the ability of the public to talk freely in a meaningful way will end, possibly permanently, because almost all of our conversations have moved online.

    the threat from comcast and their brethren on this issue is *far* greater than the threat of misuse of net neutrality rules by the feds.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  111. Drunku, I chose that site knowing that I could back up what it said with other sources. You can try to shoot the messenger, but its message quoted is nevertheless true. The election was influenced, no doubt.

    Tillman (d34303)

  112. Before you grant power to a government, envision that power being wielded by your enemies.

    matt d (d4aa6f)

  113. matt d — sure, but the alternatives seem to be power wielded by my enemies through monopoly service providers, or power wielded by my enemies through a government body that is at least in some ways responsible to the people.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  114. Haha! More insanity:

    A federal judge on Thursday threatened to hold Attorney General Jeff Sessions in contempt after discovering that the Trump administration attempted to transfer a woman and her daughter out of the country while an appeal hearing for their deportation was underway.

    Emphasis mine.
    http://thehill.com/latino/401128-judge-threatens-to-hold-sessions-in-contempt-after-attempted-deportation-of-migrant

    And sadly, more Draconian cruelty at the same time.

    Tillman (d34303)

  115. And let’s make sure we buy some of these asbestos-laden crayons for our kiddos, right crew?

    https://abcnews.go.com/US/crayons-bought-discount-store-test-positive-asbestos-group/story?id=57083697

    And we can be proud to Make America Asbestos Again:

    One of them wants to come to your country legally, work a job, contribute and eventually become a citizen. The other… is asbestos.

    Guess which one President Trump has, historically, been vocally in favor of, and which one Trump’s administration is about to emit guidelines to discourage as much as it can? No, you do not need to guess. It is the Trump administration, and obviously its attitude is “LEGAL IMMIGRANTS are the real danger here. Give us more asbestos, please.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/wp/2018/08/08/make-america-asbestos-again/?utm_term=.4a11e2fe67bf

    Tillman (d34303)

  116. 122. From the link:

    “In its rush to deport as many immigrants as possible, the Trump administration is putting these women and children in grave danger of being raped, beaten, or killed,”

    According to Sessions, and he’s right on the law actually, that’s not grounds for asylum.

    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/14/sessions-asylum-protections-domestic-violence-646085

    “We are really returning to the classical understanding of what asylum is,” Sessions told The Hill. “Asylum is not a claim that you have suffered a specific act of private violence or any other crime. It is really a systemic problem in which a group of people, based on ethnicity or race or nationality or other such factors, are oppressed in a given country.”

    Grave danger of being raped, beaten, or killed is only grounds for asylum if the government is doing it, or tolerating it, or unable to prevent it, and maybe targeting could also be requirement.

    https://www.justice.gov/eoir/page/file/1070866/download

    An alien may suffer threats and violence in a foreign country for any number of reasons relating to her social, economic, family, or other personal circumstances. Yet the asylum statute does not provide redress for all misfortune. It applies when persecution arises on account of membership in a protected group and the victim may not find protection except by taking refuge in another country.

    Congress should change the asylum law to clearly cover these kinds of situations because I can heardly think of any person more in need of asylum than someone escaping crime.

    Not a great chance of that happening right now.

    In the meantime, Kris Kobach, who was in the lead on this anti-immigration kick long before Trump, may have won a narrow victory in the Republican primary for Governor in Kansas. As Secretary of State he’s in overall supervisory positoion in the recount, but that may not mean anything anyway.

    Kobach is likely to lose, because even if the Democrats don’t make an issue of this (although trump will do everything he can to make sure this is an issue in the midterm elections, because he senses the Democats are afraid of it) his cruelty and insensitivity and nonsense spouting will come through on other issues.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  117. Early returns in one county ( Thomas County) were errorneous.

    The true tally for Jeff Colyer is 522 votes there, not 422 votes, so Kobach’s lead in the republican primary is cut to 91 votes.

    Of course there may be some otehr errors that went against him.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  118. The New York Times thinks it has found the root of all evil:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/08/opinion/editorials/kris-kobach-kansas-gop-primary.html

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)


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