Patterico's Pontifications

7/8/2018

#FAKENEWS Tries to Undermine Trump’s Nuclear Deal Success with Chairman Un [Guest Post by Hateway Pundit]

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 8:56 am



[In an effort to increase diversity of opinion among posters here at patterico.com, here is a guest post by Him Joft, aka Hateway Pundit. Patterico will return tomorrow. Or later today. Who knows?]

As the world knows, Donald Trump, who wrote The Art of the Deal, recently returned from Singapore triumphant, having solved the Nuclear Crisis with North Korea. Our President, who the far left wackos and the #NeverTrumpers (but I repeat myself) like to portay as a liar, said: “There is no longer a Nuclear Threat from North Korea.” I dont know about you but I believe my President.

Its no surprise that the real enemy of this country, the #FAKENEWS lamestream media, is trying to undercut Trump’s great success. First there’s the New York Times, who’s motto is “All the #FakeNews Thats Fit to Print”. They say:

North Korea accused the Trump administration on Saturday of pushing a “unilateral and gangster-like demand for denuclearization” and called it “deeply regrettable,” hours after Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said his two days of talks in the North Korean capital were “productive.”

Despite the criticism, North Korea’s Foreign Ministry said the country’s leader, Kim Jong-un, still wanted to build on the “friendly relationship and trust” forged with President Trump during their summit meeting in Singapore on June 12. The ministry said Mr. Kim had written a personal letter to Mr. Trump, reiterating that trust.

The harsh North Korean reaction may have been a time-tested negotiating tactic. Two months ago, a brief blowup between the two countries led President Trump to briefly cancel, then reschedule, his summit meeting with Mr. Kim. But North Korea’s remarks also played to a larger fear: that the summit meeting’s vaguely worded commitment to “the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula” meant something very different in Pyongyang and Washington.

If Trump said their “de-nuking” then theyre de-nuking. And even if they arent, Trump knows how to put on a good show. Its the Expectations Game, and anybody with half a brain like us knows that, unlike the Fredocon #NeverTrumpers and they’re far left Buddies at there cocktail Parties they like to go to so much with Billy Crystal and all those other guys with the cruises they always try to sell you.

And anyway I sincerely doubt North Korea said the U.S. was pushing a “unilateral and gangster-like demand for denuclearization.” Maybe the geniuses at the New York Times need to get new translators. If anyone is a gangster, it’s Barack Obama, and Chairman Un is smart enough to know that. If your the head of a Country like that, your smarter then to say things like that about President Trump. He wrote the Art of the Deal, and he even gave Chairman Un a CD reminding him about how he called him “Rocket Man” for some lighthearrted humor, which everyone knows Chairman Un likes. So why would Rocket Mans panties be in such a twist? The obvious conclusion is there not, and its more #FAKENEWS.

Its time for the “fifth column” to recognize what Trump has acheived here. Except for several times, NOrth Korea has never offered to “denucularize” before. And they sure haven’t offered it before to Presient Trump, who wrote The Art of the Deal. I don’t care what idiots like Mark Cuban and Michael Bloomberg say about Trump: the fact is you dont get to be as Rich as Donald Trump without being smart, okay?

Then theres the #FAKENEWSBEZOSPOST that ran a Story about a week ago trying to make it sound like Chairman Un is still trying to nuke, even after Trump said hes trying to denuke. Get a load of this story with it’s four “Sources” that dont even exist:

U.S. intelligence officials, citing newly obtained evidence, have concluded that North Korea does not intend to fully surrender its nuclear stockpile, and instead is considering ways to conceal the number of weapons it has and secret production facilities, according to U.S. officials.

The evidence, collected in the wake of the June 12 summit in Singapore, points to preparations to deceive the United States about the number of nuclear warheads in North Korea’s arsenal as well as the existence of undisclosed facilities used to make fissile material for nuclear bombs, the officials said.

The findings support a new, previously undisclosed Defense Intelligence Agency estimate that North Korea is unlikely to denuclearize.

Its pretty obvious whats going on here: the Deep State. From the Demonrat operation run by lifelong Demonrat Special Councel Robert “Witch Hunter” Mueller to our so-called “intelligence community,” their all deep staters. Donald Trump shineded the light on these frauds and revealed that anyone who joins law enforcement or the intelligence community does so to “undermine” the Country from within. We owe our President a grate Debt for revealing these traitors to be that thing they are.

Thanks to Patterico for the chance to say this stuff. For a dirty traitorous #NeverTrumper hes OK.

— Him JOft

[Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.]

155 Responses to “#FAKENEWS Tries to Undermine Trump’s Nuclear Deal Success with Chairman Un [Guest Post by Hateway Pundit]”

  1. “DiNG!!1!”

    Patterico (115b1f)

  2. Yeah it is, just not to you.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  3. I have no plans to. It pays the bills!

    Patterico (115b1f)

  4. You mean like John Mullaney? He’s funny!

    Patterico (115b1f)

  5. God Bless the firefighters in the western U.S.A.

    mg (9e54f8)

  6. Oh come on: everybody knows that the only problem we have with international relations is that the previous administrations weren’t enlightened enough or lacked the guts for hard negotiations. It’s certainly never a factor that other nations have interests which may not correspond with our own. I mean, look at how Bill Clinton pivoted from George H.W. Bush’s indulgent handholding and put China in their place thereby assuring that America would continue to be the dominant economic power for generations to come, or the job that George W. Bush did making America popular in the Arab world after the fecklessness of the Clinton years, or how Barack Obama “reset” or fraught relationship with Russia and brought them into the folds of international justice and order. Why we all know that all it took was for Donald Trump to go over the Pyongyang and tell Rocket Man to knock it off and he would obediently fall in line.

    JVW (42615e)

  7. Unlike Albright, Bolton and Pompeii are going to insist on what was signed on the commnique. that’s why the latter was called gangster

    Narciso (7293bc)

  8. Maybe Kim meant to say Gangnam not Gangster. He could be a Psy fan, and this is his response to the Trump gift of the Elton John CD Rocket Man.

    DRJ (15874d)

  9. “Insist,” are they?

    Oh that’ll work.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  10. Yes except for Bolton who was undermined by Rowell there,was no pressure.

    Narciso (a5bfcc)

  11. What do the Norks want, in descending order of priority?

    (1) ICBMs with nukes on top that will reach America.

    (2) Time to achieve #1.

    (3) International normalization.

    Trump gave them #3 outright, which not even Obama was stupid enough to do. And he gave it to them for nothing in return, except a meeting that cheapened the international prestige of the United States of America and grandly elevated the prestige of Kim.

    And like previous American administrations — the very ones Trump himself has mocked as chumps — Trump is giving the Norks #2, again, with nothing gained in return.

    I quoted the WSJ article about how there are hundreds of empty coffins that the United States rushed to the border to receive the promised American and allied war remains.

    Empty coffins. Wow, that phrase makes me sad and angry. What a perfect symbol for this POTUS’ gross stupidity.

    Trump likes to put his name on things. I suppose we can name the glowing radioactive crater where Anchorage or Seattle were, “The Trump Crater.”

    Beldar (fa637a)

  12. The pressure was international sanctions, something Trump has undermined by dealing unilaterally with Kim.

    DRJ (15874d)

  13. Good to see some students are finally getting it… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjKWXyznS9s

    Colonel Haiku (5fd258)

  14. Narciso, Trump cancelled joint wargames with the South Korea, the purpose of which is to put pressure on the Norks. Kim didn’t even ask for that, which shows how pathetically impotent it actually is as a means of pressure. But it was something. Now Trump’s given the Norks have a veto over our military preparedness. You think that helps increase the “pressure” on Kim? You think treating him like a rock star and saluting his generals increase the pressure? What the hell pressure are you talking about? The little bit we did had, Trump’s given away. You’re the guy who reminds us all about juche, right? They want to be independent; getting a McDonalds on every corner is not on their wish list, and they’re past masters at getting around sanctions to the minimum extent necessary to preserve Kim’s regime.

    Kim’s just outfoxed Trump on the world stage, and they’re laughing at him in Pyongyang. What’s comedy for Kim is black comedy for the rest of the world.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  15. Q: Why should you never date an apostrophe?

    A: They’re too possessive.

    Did you hear the one about the pregnant woman who went into labor and started shouting, “Didn’t! Won’t! Couldn’t! Wouldn’t! Shouldn’t! Can’t!!!” She was having contractions.

    And last but not least:

    Q. What do you say to comfort a grammar Nazi?

    A. “There, they’re, their!”

    Beldar (fa637a)

  16. yes in consultation with moon jae in, who is perhaps the most starry eyed of the group, what is your solution, Beldam do you want war on thud peninsula,

    I’m not going to buy a narrative from the same outlet that stormey’d the framework and called Bolton a war crimianl

    narciso (d1f714)

  17. N. Korea has been a thorn in our side since Trump was in kindergarten, but yeah, whatever Trump does with the situation will for sure be the wrong thing. The de-nuking of the peninsula was going so well til he came along…

    lee (ab26cf)

  18. war games with our sleazy tranny-trash mattis military and the cowardly useless south korean pansy army don’t accomplish anything

    they’ve had decades to come up with a military solution and all they can do is play games play games play games

    LOSERS

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  19. Alan Dershowitz in interview asked if he’s treated worse now for defending Trump than when he defended OJ:

    A: Of course. Or Claus von Bulow or Leona Helmsley or Michael Milken or Mike Tyson. This is much worse than all that, because in those cases people were critical of me, but they were prepared to discuss it. They were prepared to have a dialogue. Here, the people that I’m objecting to want to stop the dialogue. They don’t want to have the conversation. It will upset people at the dinner party or on the porch. This is like safe spaces in colleges.”

    https://www.wral.com/alan-dershowitz-is-enjoying-this/17681968/

    harkin (fabd28)

  20. ROFL, Patterico.

    nk (dbc370)

  21. — Anybody who thought that Kim was not going to eat Trump’s lunch and then hang him up in his locker by his underwear, raise your right hand!

    — No, no, your hands are the ones without shoes!

    nk (dbc370)

  22. If you want to mock Hoft, more power to you. But, this method you’ve chosen, no link, no specific quotes, pretending to speak in his voice, spelling and grammar errors, seems pretty lame. Why not add some mentions of him emptying out his overflowing drool cup? It would fit right in with the tenor of your “opinion” piece.

    Anon Y. Mous (01516b)

  23. Patience is in order, in certainly the last two administration, there was little leverage imposed on the hermit kingdom, in the last the reporter covering the story was deemed more of a target.

    narciso (d1f714)

  24. Speaking of gangsters… this reads forlorned and resigned that “the Argument” has been lost, but hey… pencil necks and Uzis… sweet!

    “With Republicans controlling the Senate and the judicial filibuster dead, the Democrats’ odds of denying President Trump a second Supreme Court appointment are slim. Barring some unforeseen development, the president will lock in a 5-to-4 conservative majority, shifting the court solidly to the right for a generation.

    This is all the more reason for Democrats and progressives to take a page from “The Godfather” and go to the mattresses on this issue…

    This is the moment for Democrats to drive home to voters the crucial role that the judiciary plays in shaping this nation, and why the courts should be a key voting concern in Every. Single. Election.

    …As hyperpartisanship, gridlock and a general abdication of responsibility have rendered Congress increasingly dysfunctional, the judiciary is taking an ever-greater hand in policy areas ranging from immigration to guns to ballot access to worker rights…

    Even if Senate Democrats pull out all the stops, the political reality is that Republicans have been far more effective than Democrats at galvanizing their base around the judiciary…

    Even conservatives turned off by Mr. Trump’s sexual creepiness could be rallied around the prospect of claiming that seat.

    Long after Mr. Trump is nothing but a toxic memory, the federal judiciary — from the Supreme Court on down — will bear the smear of his fingerprints.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/06/opinion/democrats-fight-trump-supreme-court.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region&region=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region

    Colonel Haiku (5fd258)

  25. yes that can’t be misunderstood

    https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1015931135770202113

    narciso (d1f714)

  26. Oh, c’mon, Mous, #22: you have been trying to irritate people for weeks.

    You would think you would be okay with trolling.

    I think Patterico’s Stage 2 is to begin splitting hairs with you, such as “I never mentioned Hoft.” That’s kind of what you do, right?

    nk, I loved the puns.

    Simon Jester (a4a9de)

  27. And Beldar, my 14YO loves bad puns. Can’t wait to share those.

    Simon Jester (a4a9de)

  28. no simon, the times gave fidel his job, as buckley put it, duranty whitewashed the holomodor, bonner was a cheerleader for the fmln, one of whose survivors, is funding the ms 13, the other times correspondent, who writes the true flag, was a Sandinista fan boi, schanberg did admit that year zero was going on, but his pre 1975 did much to bring it about,

    narciso (d1f714)

  29. coverage, although the embrace of mao, by Nixon, was likely the proximate cause of the death of lon nol and sirik matak,

    https://taskandpurpose.com/trump-purging-military-immigrants-mavni/

    narciso (d1f714)

  30. the other broke girl grates on my sensibilities

    https://twitter.com/Ocasio2018/status/1014940775757635591

    narciso (d1f714)

  31. consider she used to work for the puzzle palace (nsa) and tremble:

    https://twitter.com/Susan_Hennessey/status/1015963113349410816

    narciso (d1f714)

  32. Oh, c’mon, Mous, #22: you have been trying to irritate people for weeks.

    You would think you would be okay with trolling.

    I think Patterico’s Stage 2 is to begin splitting hairs with you, such as “I never mentioned Hoft.” That’s kind of what you do, right?

    nk, I loved the puns.
    Simon Jester (a4a9de) — 7/8/2018 @ 12:41 pm

    Can you give me an example of me trying to irritate people? I will admit that I’m not much concerned if someone gets irritated by my arguments, but that is not the intent of my making an argument. I disagree with Patterico (and many of his commenters) about Trump, and am always looking to push back against that, particularly when I see something that is demonstrably inaccurate.

    I have seen Patterico mock Hoft before, but in those cases he linked to a specific piece by Hoft and made serious arguments about what Hoft was saying. He also mocked Hoft’s point of view with some pretty unkind invective. I think that’s fair. I think what he’s doing with this piece is at a lower level. Of course, Patterico has that right, but as I said, I think it’s pretty lame.

    Anon Y. Mous (01516b)

  33. You really are amusing, Mous. Truly.

    Simon Jester (a4a9de)

  34. and as pointed out from the American thinker piece, intellectual property theft, goes back to the network that the rosenbergs were a part of, who allowed the soviets to leapfrog the development of the mig 15,and it’s consequence over korea,

    narciso (d1f714)

  35. so yes yes i been trying to learn more about these kimchies

    so we went to parachute but guess what it wasn’t like really all that korean

    we did get a little kimchi with the pickles – service-wise i was blown away with the orchestration and we had fun sitting at what the call the “chef’s table” which is a kinda crappy couple of seats at the end of the bar next to the restrooms but you get to see the pastry guy do his work and some of the expediting done and the line guys are super friendly and willing to answer questions if you can catch them in a good moment

    the bing bread is as good as they say so i won’t dwell on that cause that’s kinda the first thing everyone orders i think

    the highlight was the summer fluke nigiri – this is one you might not want to share everyone deserves their own one – cause it’s just very very special

    the other highlight was the rigatoni curry it reminded us both of backyard cajun afternoons waiting for the etouffee – there was a lot of love and home cooking in that little dish

    one thing i did learn about is the yuba which is tofu skin – I’d never had it featured that i can remember and this came smoked and it was wonderful wonderful and here i have to note that if you go here and try and do a vegetarian flight of dishes you’re going to leave hungry

    the carrot cake was an amazing olive oil based one I loved it but my friend T was more amused by the sorbet

    i tried all three of their cocktails and by far my favorite was #2

    had the sake by the glass (didn’t see any makgeolli-type offering) and it was so interesting but very distinctive – it’s a brutish little sake with a surly attitude and “notes of mushroom” … so that was new for me

    T enjoyed a sparkling rose very much and was delighted to find a Texas wine on the list – a varietal of which she’s particularly fond (“mourvedre“) and has lots of at home so she didn’t get it here …

    you really can’t go wrong here and it’s casual and fun and perfect

    next korean experience will be dancen and i think we’ll learn maybe a little more there

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  36. I admit I didn’t know about this particular aspect:

    http://www.famous-trials.com/rosenberg/2009-perl

    narciso (d1f714)

  37. I’ve never had Korean, but I did have thai shrimp once, yikes, even three beers didn’t do the trick,

    narciso (d1f714)

  38. oops what *they* call the “chef’s table” i mean

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  39. some of the pickles have a little heat but the tempura chilis were mild and i felt they needed the accompaniment of the pickles but T said she was fine with them on their own

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  40. Be prepared for a new term as we get closer to Trump’s new SCOTUS pick, ‘Christian Sharia Law’.

    https://www.dailywire.com/news/32750/watch-cnn-contributor-compares-christianity-sharia-ryan-saavedra

    harkin (fabd28)

  41. ‘dean of comedy’ fashions himself as the muslim jon fugelsang, who knows why?

    narciso (d1f714)

  42. Anyone remember these guys: Sum Ting Wong, Wi Tu Lo, Ho Lee Fuk and Bang Ding Ow.

    AZ Bob (09743f)

  43. Ok host — I have a bone to pick. I thought for sure that what you wrote there was just crude parody, and was going to do a patented Appalled on one hand, they stink, but on the other hand, they don’t stink as bad as you say. (Ask narciso — I do this a lot)

    So I want to Gateway Pundit for the first time. They do seem to use spellcheck. But otherwise, you do have the writing style down. And while, ordinarially, I wold think a site like that not worth the bother, there seem to be enough people enamored of it that its graceless stupidity is worth a mock.

    So, well done. I am disapppointed I have to say that.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  44. hard not to conclude this:

    https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2018/07/as_norks_denounce_gangsterlike_demands_from_pompeo_trumphaters_revel_in_what_they_hope_is_failure_.html

    the times did tout the 2007 nie, which was woefully deficient, and pretended not to know the 2002 one on Iraq, was put together by the same person, paul pillar, who was last singing encomiums to rex Tillerson, that didn’t age well.

    narciso (d1f714)

  45. layers of fact checking, az bob,

    narciso (d1f714)

  46. A one year old child was in immigration this week in phoenix. The judge asked him if he understood the proceedings and what could happen to him as the prosecutor tried not to laugh.

    wendell (716828)

  47. it’s a shame, because gulag, iron curtain, and red famine, were very good:

    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/07/wapo-hack-appelbaum-attempts-to-destroy-esteemed-pro-trump-official-in-recent-screed/

    narciso (d1f714)

  48. 48. This makes sense. They can’t distinguish

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  49. I was younger than that, when I came to this country, but my parents had to wait five years,

    narciso (d1f714)

  50. Anyone remember these guys: Sum Ting Wong, Wi Tu Lo, Ho Lee Fuk and Bang Ding Ow.

    AZ Bob (09743f) — 7/8/2018 @ 1:29 pm

    Wasn’t that fall-out from the airliner incident in SF several years ago?

    Colonel Haiku (5fd258)

  51. 45-Ah, blog wars. Still, I don’t think Hoft will notice nor care (near half a million daily page views there. How many here exactly?).

    Gotta take Gateway with a grain of salt of course, but at least he knows who the enemy of the constitution and the American way of life is (hint: it is not Trump).

    Nice try though…

    lee (ab26cf)

  52. It so hot today, i lei low after wah shing kah.

    Colonel Haiku (5fd258)

  53. The Trump superfans are taking me literally. Take me the way we are all supposed to take Trump: seriously but not literally. Heck, not even seriously. This is not a shot at Hoft specifically but at Trump superfans generally, and Trump as well. Hence the poor speling and grammer, random Capitalization, random use of “quotation” marks, and so forth.

    45-Ah, blog wars. Still, I don’t think Hoft will notice nor care (near half a million daily page views there. How many here exactly?).

    Fewer than Hoft. I guess that makes his blog better than mine, notwithstanding that his is shitty and regularly posts laughable nonsense he has to retract, while I don’t. It’s all about #PAGEVIEWS baby.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  54. Why not add some mentions of him emptying out his overflowing drool cup?

    Maybe next guest post.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  55. 45 graceless stupidity? What on the blog would lead you to make that claim?

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  56. What do the Norks want, in descending order of priority?

    (1) ICBMs with nukes on top that will reach America.

    (2) Time to achieve #1.

    (3) International normalization.

    Trump gave them #3 outright, which not even Obama was stupid enough to do. And he gave it to them for nothing in return, except a meeting that cheapened the international prestige of the United States of America and grandly elevated the prestige of Kim.

    And like previous American administrations — the very ones Trump himself has mocked as chumps — Trump is giving the Norks #2, again, with nothing gained in return.

    I would never claim that Trump and his superfans would deny obvious reality simply to glorify Trump. It just seems so improbable — kind of like demonizing career intelligence and law enforcement officers en masse.

    But what if….what if Kim also achieved Trump’s commitment to the idea that he did a Great Thing with this summit, such that Trump is psychologically more likely to ignore clear evidence of violations? And to proclaim that any evidence of continued nuclearization is false and trumped up by the Deep State? And to get the agreement of his drooling superfans that any such evidence is false?

    One has to wonder why so many officials were willing to participate in this leak. Could it be that they also worry about this highly improbable scenario? I know: it’s a scenario that could come to pass only if Donald Trump prioritized his image over both the truth and national security. So: totally unlikely!

    Um, by the way…do we have a reaction from Trump to last week’s Washington Post story about North Korea pissing all over their commitment to denuclearize?

    No?

    Hmmmmm.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  57. Gotta take Gateway with a grain of salt of course, but at least he knows who the enemy of the constitution and the American way of life is (hint: it is not Trump)

    Kim Jong-un?

    Vladimir Putin?

    ISIS?

    OHHHHHHHHHHH…American media. Riiiiight I forgot.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  58. David tuck said we can’t compare sending these children back to sending jewish children back in 1939 on the s.s. st.louis. These children are not jewish.

    wendell (716828)

  59. OHHHHHHHHHHH…American media. Riiiiight I forgot.
    Patterico (115b1f) — 7/8/2018 @ 2:28 pm

    Nope. They are merely willing dupes of the real enemy. The corrupt bureaucrats within the DOJ/FBI who have been and are subverting our legal processes for their own nefarious ends. It’s unAmerican and a threat to our form of government.

    Anon Y. Mous (01516b)

  60. Nate:

    I looked at #49’s link. (Prior to him posting it.) Bad writing, ad homs (hence graceless), and a total failure to evaluate well-known prior work (hence stupid, even if mendacious, since the prior work is well known).

    Since you asked.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  61. This is not a shot at Hoft specifically but at Trump superfans generally, and Trump as well. Hence the poor speling and grammer, random Capitalization, random use of “quotation” marks, and so forth.
    Patterico (115b1f) — 7/8/2018 @ 1:58 pm

    If you say so. Your using a mangled version of his name and his blog name makes it seem like it has something to do with him. I wonder if someone did the same to your name and your site name in some kind of parody of a NeverTrumper and then claimed that it wasn’t specifically about you – Would you buy it?

    Anon Y. Mous (01516b)

  62. 45-

    Ok host — I have a bone to pick. I thought for sure that what you wrote there here was just crude parody, and was going to do a patented Appalled[.] oOn one hand , they stink, but on the other hand , they don’t stink as bad as you say. (Ask narciso — I do this a lot)

    So I want went to Gateway Pundit for the first time. They do seem to use spellcheck . , Bbut otherwise, you do have the writing style down. And while , </strike ordinarially, I wold would think a site like that not worth the bother, there seem[s] to be enough people enamored of it that its graceless stupidity is worth a mock.

    So, well done. I am disapppointed I have to say that.

    Ha ha, anti-Trump are stupid

    lee (ab26cf)

  63. He’s a killer when he’s angry! https://youtu.be/zsXMmF-ggvI

    Colonel Haiku (5fd258)

  64. Number One Son sent that a few minutes ago, couldn’t resist.

    Colonel Haiku (5fd258)

  65. lee:

    Thanks for the edits, but commas and starting the sentence with a conjunction is a stylistic choice. And typos are just what they seem. Typos.

    And I like my ordnarially, ordnarially.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  66. Had trouble with preview, but “ordinarilly” was supposed to be struck ( one “l”), along with the extra commas. So many commas…

    lee (ab26cf)

  67. Sorry Appalled, don’t really mean to single you out; just getting into the spirit of this post!

    lee (ab26cf)

  68. If you say so. Your using a mangled version of his name and his blog name makes it seem like it has something to do with him.

    It does.

    A: “x is not just about y.”
    B: “Haha! I can refute that by showing that x has something to do with y! HaHA!”
    A: “Um…”

    I wonder if someone did the same to your name and your site name in some kind of parody of a NeverTrumper and then claimed that it wasn’t specifically about you – Would you buy it?

    Depends. Do I think this person is generally a lying douchebag?

    Patterico (115b1f)

  69. Do you think I am equally foolish as Gateway Pundit, Mr. Mous?

    Perhaps you think, like lee, that I’m worse, on account of the page views.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  70. My mention of page views wasn’t about better or worse, but rather about blog wars, and possible motivations of a less prominent one starting one.

    Notice I said “possible”. I chose my wording carefully to give me plausible deniability.

    You’ve taught me well.

    lee (ab26cf)

  71. Depends. Do I think this person is generally a lying douchebag?
    Patterico (115b1f) — 7/8/2018 @ 2:58 pm

    I don’t know. It was a hypothetical with no particular author in mind. I especially don’t know what your view is of this vaguely defined hypothetical author.

    Do you think I am equally foolish as Gateway Pundit, Mr. Mous?
    Patterico (115b1f) — 7/8/2018 @ 3:00 pm

    I don’t read Hoft very often. He has a tendency to take a tidbit of info and get overly excited about it. Not that he is necessarily inaccurate about the details of the tidbit, just that he places a higher degree of importance on it than I would. Kind of tabloid-y. But, I don’t think foolish is a word I would choose to describe him.

    Nor you. Though I think you are often wrong about the politics of the day, especially regarding Trump, who touches on just about all of the politics of the day.

    I guess you could say that since I don’t regard either of you as foolish, I do think of you both as equally foolish.

    Anon Y. Mous (01516b)

  72. My mention of page views wasn’t about better or worse, but rather about blog wars, and possible motivations of a less prominent one starting one.

    Notice I said “possible”. I chose my wording carefully to give me plausible deniability.

    You’ve taught me well.

    I hope Jim Hoft goes the rest of his life never giving me a second thought. You can believe that or not. I don’t care.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  73. I don’t read Hoft very often. He has a tendency to take a tidbit of info and get overly excited about it. Not that he is necessarily inaccurate about the details of the tidbit, just that he places a higher degree of importance on it than I would. Kind of tabloid-y. But, I don’t think foolish is a word I would choose to describe him.

    OK then

    Patterico (115b1f)

  74. No, I believe you. But why give him a second thought?

    I mean, personally I haven’t given Gateway Pundit a thought in forever (probably the last time you mentioned him).

    Anyway, I’m sure my advice is less than welcome, so carry on.

    lee (ab26cf)

  75. Jim Hoft is a symbol of much (not everything, but a lot) of what is wrong with rightwing punditry in the age of Trump. That so few commenters here seem willing to defend him, and that those who do are doing so in such a tentative manner, speaks volumes to me.

    Gryph (5efbad)

  76. I was banned from GP for having the temerity to suggest that Reagan would toss Hoft out like bad garbage if he could see what Jim’s doing now.

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  77. As a target, though, Gateway Pundit is low-hanging fruit.

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  78. This is well written satire. I laughed, because I generally find Gateway Pundit to do a disservice to the support that Trump may recieve from members of the NT movement with the obsequious way that he bows to ALL things being brilliant. They aren’t.

    In the micro view, in THIS news cycle, the linked articles are setbacks. In the macro view, not much has truly changed.

    Pompeo can restart the war games exercises with the South Koreans, the US can impose new sanctions….etc. the Norks are fully aware of this. You are absolutely correct that the Norks would like Nukes, but it really is dependent upon the trade-offs it would take the regime to get them.

    They are aware of the US political calculations. Any ACTUAL Treaty with the US would go through Congress.

    Do you put it past a hostile foreign party, with their own interests, to want to use ANY leverage they can to get a better deal a for themselves? Would a Democratic Congress, or President be more likely to give cash and actual concessions than the current administration? Or to look at it more crassly, would the Democrats or some members of the media flack for their team if they fee it will help them in the polls in November? Of course they would, same as Republicans do.

    The idea that The Notorious DJT would strolll into the meeting, woo Kim and usher in a golden age (per Scott Adams) is certainly wishful thinking. However; the ongoing negotiations are moving in the direction that I figured they would.

    We are asking for a lot, the Norks aren’t wanting to give much up. The difference between now and past iterations of this dance is that we have Pompeo, Bolton, Haley and Trump.

    DJT will take the short term political hit in the micro news cycle so long as in the macro, things are moving in the right direction.

    It would appear to me, they are and we haven’t given much up at this moment that can’t be reininstitued when the time comes.

    Carlton (20b9c8)

  79. Nice comment Carlton. You seem a well balanced person.

    lee (ab26cf)

  80. exactly, carlton, hoft does have a tabloid style, not for every taste, the times the post and the journal, are selling tabloid allegations, ie stephanie Clifford, in seemingly sober newsprint, now hoft hasn’t addressed this issue,

    narciso (d1f714)

  81. I particularly appreciate Trump’s nuanced views of Article XII of the Constitution, lee.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  82. really, I don’t think you are looking close enough:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/14/north-korea-kim-il-sung-latest-threats-1975

    like I say mao was excused for 50 fold a butchers bill, in recent past,

    narciso (d1f714)

  83. narciso (d1f714) — 7/8/2018 @ 1:44 pm

    Gateway Pundit linking Breitbart is a pretty good example of Fake News in and of itself.

    Applebaum is just now focusing on the Polish President’s attempt to manipulate, even pack, the Polish judiciary for his own benefit.

    Might be good to keep that on file for use when the Demicrats get around to packing the courts.

    kishnevi (467159)

  84. @ Carlton (#80): How do we get the time back, Mr. Carlton?

    They’re playing for time. They’ve been playing for time since they first started their nuclear program. Now Pompeo, Bolton, Haley & Trump (mostly Trump) are giving it to them, for nothing, while trying to fool (successfully, it seems) a major portion of the American public into thinking something meaningful is going on in negotiations. Well, that’s a con game, and anyone who believes that has been suckered by Trump as badly as Trump has been suckered by Kim.

    Empty coffins, Carlton. They won’t even give us the old bones they’ve been promising to turn over since, well, since they were new bones, in 1954. You think that any single person — no matter how clever, or skilled, or brilliant a negotiator, is going to talk the Norks out of their nukes? I hope you don’t think that, because that would be ridiculously naive. And if you want me to believe that, say, Pompeo has brought something new to the mix, I will say, “Yeah, he’s convinced me he’s as big a sucker as Trump is.” He’s the worst SecState since William Jennings Bryan, because he’s actively deceiving the American public in this charade.

    Nothing short of a credible threat of imminent force, supported by the American public as evidenced through a Congressional AUMF, joined by whatever coalition of the willing will come with us (but alone if necessary), can possibly induce the North Koreans to actually denuclearize. And it’s entirely possible that, as with Saddam, Kim will misjudge American resolve and force us to make good on the threat. Unless and until we’re ready to make good on the threat, the Norks are going to continue to play for time to finish their nuclear-tipped ICBM that can reach America.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  85. Twenty years of doubletalk, time will tell, rumsfeld was warning about this back in 97, it was general cartright among others, who ridiculed this concern.

    They borrowed aq khans technicians Ukrainian boosters from yuralmash and other odds and ends

    narciso (d1f714)

  86. from the folks that brought you,,the. Reset and the Benghazi whitewash, actually enabling Al quedas takeover of Libya:http:/dailycaller.com/2018/07/08/reines-tweets-payback

    narciso (d1f714)

  87. narciso, you asked up-thread what my solution would be.

    I will quote Reagan, regarding peace through strength: “We know that peace is the condition under which mankind was meant to flourish. Yet peace does not exist of its own will. It depends on us, on our courage to build it and guard it and pass it on to future generations.”

    Or, going back to the Roman general Vegetius: “Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.” If you want peace, prepare for war.

    Lying to the American people — just outright lying through your teeth, like, yes, Goebbels, on the Big Lie — and claiming that the nuclear threat from Korea is over, when the opposite is true, is definitely not the way toward peace. It’s the way toward a smoking radioactive crater that used to be Seoul, Tokyo, or God forbid, Seattle.

    He’s Chamberlain with an orange comb-over.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  88. Right now watching Newsmax:Reagan’s winning wit.

    Tune in, quick!

    lee (ab26cf)

  89. @89. Nah. He’s J.R. Ewing; the bad boy everybody loves and loves to hate.

    And Monday evening, when Season 2 of ‘Court Gesture’ premieres, “In Color,” 9 PM Eastern, 8 PM Central, you’ll love him again, too.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  90. @90. =yawn= He’s been out of office 30 years and dead 14 years. The America of 2018 is as far away from the Reagan days as it was from FDR’s WW2 America in 1975.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  91. “He’s Chamberlain with an orange comb-over.”

    Beldar (fa637a) — 7/8/2018 @ 4:56 pm

    Bullschiff!!! He’s teh Orange Gandhi and he will prevail.

    Colonel Haiku (5fd258)

  92. And what does that entail, we have a considerable nuclear compliment, we wouldnt have to use it. A Pershing type strategy would seen unlikely in this environment, particularly with moon jae In’s part

    narciso (d1f714)

  93. Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall obtain a 60 ratings share.

    Colonel Haiku (5fd258)

  94. Meh. When this ‘deal’ starts to crater in the media, and our Captain has sailed on to other starring roles in televised events through his term[s], he’ll let any blame fall on flunkies like Pompeo, as with other underlings and Cabinet dupes who’ve ‘failed to perform.’

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  95. “The America of 2018 is as far away from the Reagan days as it was from FDR’s WW2 America in 1975.”

    Says teh guy who listens to Jolson on his Victrola talking machine…

    Colonel Haiku (5fd258)

  96. @93. He’s teh Orange Gandhi and he will prevail

    =Haiku!= Gesundheit!

    More like Orange Julius; beware the berobed with smoothies.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  97. Tell teh one about Ray Milland rubbing your mum’s bottom while dancing with her, ASPCA. That never gets old.

    Colonel Haiku (5fd258)

  98. @99. =Haiku!= Gesundheit!

    Nice try, Colonelle. Milland’s dead. The offender is still alive and still acting.

    Try again.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  99. Patrick Cranshaw…

    Colonel Haiku (5fd258)

  100. It’s actually not a big list to guess from. There are few British actors from that era who are more than vaguely heterosexual. A captious person might even leave out “actors from that era”. And Ray Milland was not one of them. More than vaguely heterosexual.

    nk (dbc370)

  101. @Beldar 86

    Time is one commodity we have that they don’t.

    1. The nuclear testing site they have primarily used for their nuclear tests has collapsed.
    2. The economic sanctions have crippled their economy to such a point that they are executing officers for sneaking extra rations. Previously, the Army was the one place outside of the “People’s Assembly” that was allowed these indulgences. If Kim loses control over the Army, (not likely, but possible) he could lose his head.

    The lack of free capital, (although they more than likely have ALL of the Mt GOX bitcoin, but good luck exchanging it) will make it almost impossible for them to free up the funds necessary to invest into a new nuclear testing site.

    We have the Norks over a proverbial barrel. The calculation for Kim, based on my reading of the evidence is this.

    1. De-nuclearize and be accepted in some fashion into the international community. Kim wins a Nobel, and is remembered throughout Korean History and world history as a great peacemaker. That’s a powerful statement.
    2. Hold out against the current sanctions, the future sanctions and the credible threat of a full scale invasion by the crazy orange haired Humunculus, long enough to secure his ICBM, to fire it at the American West Coast…….to then be destroyed in minutes a full on nuclear storm courtesy of A future American President.

    Let me ask you Beldar, why do you believe the Norks want the bomb with the capability to hit the US?

    Carlton (20b9c8)

  102. Better not be Michael Caine…

    Colonel Haiku (5fd258)

  103. Let me ask you Beldar, why do you believe the Norks want the bomb with the capability to hit the US?

    Because without it they are as significant as a goatherder’s hut somewhere in Outer Moldovia. Without the goats.

    nk (dbc370)

  104. @103. That’s a wise assessment.

    @105. =Haiku!= Gesundheit!

    When you’re trolling, keep chumming, Colonelle. In that age range. And he unzipped her dress, nothing more, nothing less.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  105. Well a suborbital detonation, might generate a sizable emp, perhaps not a total grid shutdown

    Narciso (087789)

  106. 89- peace through strength. Believe it, love it, live it.

    Gotta ask though, we’ve had the biggest baddest military in the world ever since, and been in perpetual war ever since. What’s up with that?

    lee (ab26cf)

  107. Reminder
    All NorK really needs is a deliverable bomb that can hit Japan.
    Whenever he does that expect the Sushi to hit the Fan.
    Said bomb could also be turned against Peking. Which would make for very interesting times.

    I assume Kim’s long range goal is to use his bomb in a way that will let him reunite the Korean peninsula under his rule.

    kishnevi (14a2e1)

  108. The kim dynasty has a very big grudge against nippon, very particularly against Dave’s family in particular, their relations with China are ahem conflicted.

    Narciso (087789)

  109. kishnevi 110

    They have a missile that can hit Japan. They were splashing them in the Pacific OVER Japan.

    Carlton (20b9c8)

  110. We have been a very benevolent regime, with the Marshall plan, with our delish league, NATO, few real incidents like Syracuse expedition, now in a mirror universe.

    Narciso (087789)

  111. Carlton wrote (#104):

    Let me ask you Beldar, why do you believe the Norks want the bomb with the capability to hit the US?

    nk is right in #106: “Because without it they are as significant as a goatherder’s hut somewhere in Outer Moldovia. Without the goats.”

    But I also believe it because they say so every time the subject comes up, Carlton. For instance (and I can find many others), from the official (not the spoof) North Korean news agency, KCNA, there’s this from July 25, 2017 (boldface mine):

    The first and foremost mission of our revolutionary armed forces with the nuclear force as their backbone is to defend the leader at the cost of their lives.

    The DPRK legally stipulates that if the supreme dignity of the DPRK is threatened, it must preemptively annihilate those countries and entities that are directly or indirectly involved in it, by mobilizing all kinds of strike means including the nuclear ones.

    We will find out and smash all those who intend to do something against our supreme leadership, wherever they are. This is an immutable and indomitable will of the army and people of the DPRK.
    We once again felt deep in our hearts from the reckless remarks of the CIA director how just it was that we have achieved the great historic cause of completing the nuclear force by overcoming all difficulties and trials.

    Should the U.S. dare to show even the slightest sign of attempt to remove our supreme leadership, we will strike a merciless blow at the heart of the U.S. with our powerful nuclear hammer, honed and hardened over time.

    The likes of Pompeo will bitterly experience the catastrophic and miserable consequences caused by having dared to shake their little fists at the supreme leadership, our eternal sun and everything of life for our nation.

    You have to read the cached version, since the Norks took this down before the Trump summit, but it was contemporaneously reported and quoted around the world, e.g., here. Do you think they’ve changed their minds, though?

    If so, why are those coffins empty?

    Kim saw Kadafi give up his nukes after the Iraq War toppled Saddam. Kim saw Obama back the Brits & French (by leading from behind, meaning, in actuality, destroying all anti-air defensive sites so the Brit and French planes wouldn’t get shot down) in overthrowing Kadafi anyway. He’s fat, but he’s not stupid. In fact, he’s just outplayed Trump, and made it look easy. And maybe it was.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  112. Carlton, I specified “deliverable bomb”.
    I know they have the missile.
    I know they have the bomb.
    As I understand it, they have not yet worked out getting the bomb to the proper size to fit it on the missile, and to make sure it explodes when the missile hits its target. That would be a deliverable bomb.

    kishnevi (14a2e1)

  113. Carlton, you may think we have the Norks over a barrel. But if they think that, why are they expanding their key missile-manufacturing plant in Hamhung?

    Beldar (fa637a)

  114. It was also there Gdansk or tien an men if you prefer,

    Narciso (087789)

  115. It was a scene of an uprising in 1995

    https://www.nknews.org/2017/09/dprk-blues-a-trip-to-hamhung/

    Narciso (087789)

  116. Odd place to be giving tours to, did they do to that yuralmash

    Narciso (087789)

  117. Narciso, there’s a paywall.

    kishnevi (14a2e1)

  118. It’s not identified as a nuclear research facility, now,it’s possible in the last two months it became so buy not likely.

    Narciso (087789)

  119. @Beldar. Let me be more clear in my question.

    Will the North Koreans strike at the US should they have an ICBM that could hit the US?

    And if they do, would their entire supreme leadership be destroyed in about 20 minutes by a a US nuclear strike?

    We know, now, that the Norks have successfully miniaturized warheads that could strike American installations in Asia Yet they haven’t done so.

    The Kim Family has, up until now, successfully shaken down American Administrations going back for at least 40 years. And to this point, they have not gotten anything other than an ending of joint military exercises. They are continuing the same playbook that they have followed since the end of the Korean War for concessions from the US and the international community. But they haven’t gotten them. Would it be nice if they would give us our war dead back. Yes, it would. But it’s not going to stop Pompeo from slowly turning up the water on the stove that they are in. WE hold all the cards here. Because we KNOW that they won’t use their nukes or missiles against us. They already would have if they intended to. They could strike Japan today. We’d destroy them.

    They could strike Guam, we’d turn Pyongyang into glass.

    If they continue down the path they are going, which I’m pretty sure they will try until it is no longer palatable, they will see that the resolve of the Trump administration (mainly through leadership from Pompeo, Bolton and Haley) Won’t waver. Because the micro news cycle doesn’t matter to them. The macro picture does. We still could further tighten the noose on them. And it seems to me that will be the recommendation from the SOS after this last meeting.

    Carlton (20b9c8)

  120. @Beladr, I meant to add. The reason that the Norks are expanding missile production is because it is the ONLY card they have to play.

    Carlton (20b9c8)

  121. Carlton, if you’re fine with the Norks being a nuclear power with the ability to strike the U.S., you and I have nothing further to talk about. I cannot take you seriously, sir. Good luck in the future, but let’s neither of us waste more time on the other.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  122. No we are not, but the last two administrations certainly suggested they were,

    Narciso (087789)

  123. @Beldar

    I’m not sure where you got from anything I’ve said previously that I am fine with the Norks being a nuclear power. I can state emphatically that I DO NOT WISH FOR THE NORTH KOREANS TO HAVE A NUCLEAR WEAPON.

    May I ask, how did you infer that from anything that I’ve said?

    Carlton (20b9c8)

  124. @Narciso

    With the Norks, it’s best to assume that ALL facilities are in the business of manufacturing nuclear weapons and any associated technologies

    Carlton (20b9c8)

  125. Probably but it has no history of such capacity, of the axis of evil, Iraq was the easiest compared to say either north Korea or Iran,

    Narciso (087789)

  126. I’m probably being Captain Obvious here, but the document that Trump and Fat Kim signed was just a communique. Call it the Singapore Communique, and it is a piece of paper that does not attach any obligations to either nation. So when Trump proclaimed that “there is no longer a Nuclear Threat from North Korea,” those words were expelled directly from his ass and weighted accordingly.

    Paul Montagu (91b6ad)

  127. By now, I expected to hear that the Great Leaders of the USA and PRNK would have agreed on building a great wall across the Korean penninsula and that both agreed that South Korea would pay for it.

    John Boddie (9f788a)

  128. @Beldar

    I’m offended that you would paint me with a brush that I am comfortable with the Nork regime having nuclear weapons. I have carefully reread what I stated, and no where could it be assumed that I am comfortable with that. I, sir, would like an apology.

    Carlton (20b9c8)

  129. Let me put it this way, Carlton. You wrote:

    Will the North Koreans strike at the US should they have an ICBM that could hit the US?

    And if they do, would their entire supreme leadership be destroyed in about 20 minutes by a a US nuclear strike?

    We know, now, that the Norks have successfully miniaturized warheads that could strike American installations in Asia Yet they haven’t done so.

    The Kim Family has, up until now, successfully shaken down American Administrations going back for at least 40 years. And to this point, they have not gotten anything other than an ending of joint military exercises. They are continuing the same playbook that they have followed since the end of the Korean War for concessions from the US and the international community. But they haven’t gotten them. Would it be nice if they would give us our war dead back. Yes, it would. But it’s not going to stop Pompeo from slowly turning up the water on the stove that they are in. WE hold all the cards here. Because we KNOW that they won’t use their nukes or missiles against us. They already would have if they intended to. They could strike Japan today. We’d destroy them.

    They could strike Guam, we’d turn Pyongyang into glass.

    You’re arguing that even if the Norks have nukes they could use to strike the U.S., they’d be deterred by our ability to counterstrike.

    I’m not willing to accept your premise, though, not even for purposes of argument. I think your conclusion is also wrong — I don’t think anything can reliably deter Kim — but regardless, arguing that our nukes will deter their nukes conceded them their nukes, which I’m unwilling to do.

    You can explicitly reject the premise of your own prior argument, and with it, your resulting conclusions. I hope you will. Or you can say that you were just arguing hypothetically, in which case, it’s not a hypothetical that I’m interested in pursuing, because, again, I reject the notion that we should ever, under any circumstances, let Kim acquire the capabilities to strike us with nuclear weapons as they repeatedly have vowed to do if we so much as “disrespect” Kim — and I’m not willing to even let them keep the nukes they now have.

    My comment was phrased conditionally — if that’s your position. Maybe you just advance arguments with premises you don’t embrace, just for kicks. If you say that’s not your position, then it’s not your position.

    But I won’t apologize for pointing out the premise of your argument, though; and now that I’ve quoted you precisely, and you’ve voiced your objections, I’m done with any conversation with you.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  130. @Beldar
    You cut out the initial part of the quoted above. The part where I said, “@Beldar. Let me be more clear in my question.”

    I was posing a question to you. I’m not sure if the subtraction of the anchoring question at the beginning of the post was simply an error on your part. It would appear that it was to me. Although I can also see it as an attempt to paint me in a light that I am fine with the the Norks having nukes when I most certainly do not want them to possess the ones they have currently.

    The Norks CURRENTLY HAVE THE CAPABILITIES to strike American targets as well as American allies within their sphere. And they haven’t. And we have been doing our college best to try and shift them towards de-Nuking. That’s the entire premise of the current negotiations with the North Koreans. Previous administrations have given concessions, cash and ultimately failed to get the Norks to give up the goal of Nukes.

    I CATEGORICALLY DO NOT WANT THE NORTH KOREANS OR ANY ROGUE REGIME TO HAVE NUCLEAR WEAPONS. I am offended that you would remove the question (which was the starting off point) to attempt to paint me in a light as being OK with the Norks having nukes.

    Further, since the North Koreans CURRENTLY HAVE THE CAPABILITY

    This is a question.

    to strike US allies and territories with operable nuclear weapons, why haven’t they done so?

    Is our nuclear deterrent not currently successful?

    Did Trump not disrespect Kim by calling him Little Rocket man?

    Why haven’t the North Koreans fired a nuclear weapon at us? Or at our allies?

    Are sanctions NOT simply a way for us to destabilize, and ultimately remove Kim from power?

    Again, I would appreciate an apology for you attempting to mischaracterize the arguement that I am making. Have a good evening sir

    Carlton (20b9c8)

  131. and it looks like we are that much closer to prime minister Corbyn,

    narciso (d1f714)

  132. Herb Meyer, Special Assistant to Reagan’s DCI (CIA Director Bill Casey) provides a thoughtful perspective today to the question of what to believe about the recent US-DPRK agreement in Singapore:

    If Kim Cheats, Who Tells Trump? And who in the intelligence community will the president believe?

    Here are the two questions on which the outcome of this agreement — and the safety of our country — now depend:

    Which U.S. government officials will oversee the collection of intelligence about North Korea’s proposed denuclearization program, and then judge whether or not this intelligence confirms that North Korea is in compliance with the Singapore accord?

    If the intelligence reveals that North Korea is cheating, how will they tell Trump that Kim’s just played him for a fool?

    Whatever the intelligence we collect about North Korea suggests — and it’s implausible that every single piece of intel will point in the same direction — there’s more to doing intelligence than just dropping selected bits and pieces on policymakers’ desks. (Or leaking pieces of intelligence to selected reporters, which is already happening.) It’s too easy for policymakers to take what they like and ignore what they don’t like. The ultimate responsibility of our intelligence community — and its most valuable contribution to our security — is to reach and then convey to key policymakers a comprehensive judgment of what all the bits and pieces mean:

    Is North Korea really giving up its nukes and the ability to replace them? Is Kim trying to make this happen as he promised Trump, but running into opposition from his military leaders? Are the North Koreans taking some cosmetic steps to trick us into believing they’re doing what they’ve promised, but working covertly to preserve their nuclear bombs? What are the Chinese and the Russians doing either to help Kim, or hinder him, or to find some way of using all this to weaken the U.S.?

    The best way for our intelligence community to paint a clear, comprehensive picture of what Kim is doing and of what’s actually going on in Pyongyang — and in Beijing and Moscow — is through a National Intelligence Estimate.

    It’s possible that Kim is a man of his word; that he really wants to denuclearize his country and has the political clout in Pyongyang to make it happen. Stranger things have happened in politics But it isn’t likely that things will go smoothly; they rarely do. So it looks as though our intelligence community is heading into one of the most complex intelligence collection projects — and one of the nastiest fights with policymakers — in American history. Let’s hope that Coats and his colleagues have the smarts to grasp the meaning of whatever they collect about Kim’s denuclearization activities. And if he’s cheating, let’s hope they have the guts to tell the President what they’ve found no matter how badly he may take it.

    Good advice from the man who produced NIE’s and other TS projections in the Reagan administration and is widely credited with being the first senior US official to forecast the collapse of the USSR. Let’s hope the DNI’s working on it or open to it if he isn’t.

    His year-old article on How to defuse the crisis with North Korea is interesting as well.

    crazy (5c5b07)

  133. Good link, crazy. Thank you.

    DRJ (15874d)

  134. Must mock Trump supporters. Just have to. Because the sun came up, or something.

    I think you are belittling yourself here more than Hoft (of whom those of us in the real world with real jobs have little to no knowledge of). I misread the italics and initially thought rather highly of you for about 5 seconds for at least having the decency to present a differing point of view (again, not knowing specifically who Hoft is) to hopefully create some balance and real debate here. But of course upon reading the first paragraph, same-old same-old. Quite childish. Sad.

    Skorcher (5b282a)

  135. What do the Norks want, in descending order of priority?

    (1) ICBMs with nukes on top that will reach America.

    (2) Time to achieve #1.

    (3) International normalization.

    Trump gave them #3 outright, which not even Obama was stupid enough to do. And he gave it to them for nothing in return, except a meeting that cheapened the international prestige of the United States of America and grandly elevated the prestige of Kim.

    Beldar, I don’t often disagree vehemently with you, but here I must. Trump meeting with Kim and getting Kim’s “agreement” to de-nuke is an absolutely necessary check-box before military action can be considered.

    Yes, Kim lied. Yes, Kim will continue to work on the nukes and ICBMs. And he will get caught. And then we will end him.

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  136. You’re supposed to use an exclamation point, Skorcher. Like this: “Sad!”

    Leviticus (3fd206)

  137. If the intelligence reveals that North Korea is cheating, how will they tell Trump that Kim’s just played him for a fool?

    Hunh? Do you think that this is the first time Trump has been lied to in a negotiation? As for “played him for a fool”, just because he puts on the smiley-face does not mean that he accepts the other side’s statements as truth, nor that he’ll be surprised that he’s been lied to.

    This isn’t because he’s a fracking genius, but that he’s been involved with New York City developers and politicians for years. Some of whom are liars, cheats and thieves.

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  138. Trump in 1999 on Face the Nation, explaining how to deal with North Korea. Any analysis that ignores this is bullsh1t.

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  139. Kevin M, The Herb Meyer think piece is about how to avoid the usual politicization of intelligence analysis and ensuring the boss hears well-supported dissenting points of view rather than the usual bureaucratic consensus arrived at by finding words “we all can agree on.” He was really good at that in the Reagan years. NIE’s before and after haven’t been worth much. Common sense and telling the boss what he needs to know and not just what he wants to hear get lost in the politics and bureaucracy of the beltway in situations like this where they are needed the most.

    Thirteen years ago he wrote A talent for intelligence describing what Casey brought him to the CIA to do, how he did it, and why the proposed post 9-11 reforms were wrong and likely to fail. You might find it interesting.

    crazy (5c5b07)

  140. @ Kevin M (#141): What’s special about Kim making and breaking the promise to denuclearize yet again? They’ve promised more before, more specifically than they did to Trump, and they’ve broken those promises.

    I agree that to gather support for a Congressional AUMF, Trump would have to demonstrate that he’d exhausted diplomatic remedies first. And I agree it would need to include recent American attempts, under this POTUS, and after the sanctions campaign that Trump had pursued before the recent thaw.

    But there was no reason whatsoever to give Kim a face-to-face summit, much less to tweet all that horsesh!t about the nuclear threat from North Korea being over, much less to lie to the American public by telling them to expect Kim to start negotiating as soon as he got back from Singapore, much less to cancel our long-standing joint military preparedness exercises, in order to show that we’d exhausted diplomatic efforts.

    Now Trump’s made it harder, not easier, for him to ever get an AUMF from Congress.

    The modern model is clear, and both Bush-41 and Bush-43 followed it in assembling their international coalitions of the willing and in getting explicit approval from Congress before going to war. I know Trump and Trumpkins have vast disdain for the Bushes, but the fact is that they were able to do what the Constitution requires, and to build and sustain the political support to get Congress to buy in.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  141. “unilateral and gangster-like demand for denuclearization.”

    This accusation is a good sign, becausde North Korea is unlikely to do very much unless they feel the United States is making an offer they can’t refuse.

    Trump thinks that whenever North Korea acts tough they are doing so because China interfered.

    Actually I think China is directing both the bad cop and the good cop.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  142. Errata #148: I meant to write “start denuclearizing [not ‘negotiating’] as soon as he got back from Singapore.”

    Beldar (fa637a)

  143. Somewhat #FAKENEWS! related, good piece on Marcy Wheeler.

    Paul Montagu (91b6ad)

  144. The modern model is clear, and both Bush-41 and Bush-43 followed it in assembling their international coalitions of the willing and in getting explicit approval from Congress before going to war. I know Trump and Trumpkins have vast disdain for the Bushes, but the fact is that they were able to do what the Constitution requires, and to build and sustain the political support to get Congress to buy in.

    I just don’t see the summit as having given Kim as much as you say. What it did was nail Kim down as having committed to disarm.

    As for AUMFs, four US Presidents have dealt with this (not counting Carter), and at least one has seriously considered military force. Were Trump to have clear intelligence that the Norks were rebuilding a test site, or burying their development sites deeper, I would like to think that those other Presidents would weigh in on the necessity. Maybe I’m naive, but I’d expect backing from Bill Clinton would make an AUMF a cinch.

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  145. Beldar–

    Also, Trump has discovered a secret: if you can make your case to the 90-110 IQ contingent, nothing else matters. Pretty much the same thing Marc Antony demonstrated to Brutus.

    So, the whole “By, God, he LIED to me!” thing might appear transparent, but to a lot of people it will be cause enough.

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  146. @ Kevin M (#153): Your final observation is surely correct. I just don’t think Trump got Kim “nailed down” to anything at the summit, however, and I don’t think Kim thinks he’s committed to anything, and I don’t think he is committed to anything.

    Empty coffins.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  147. — “When you stare into the kimchi, sometimes the kimchi stares back.” — Ni Tze, 19th century Korean philosopher

    — “Nah, those are the flatworms.” — His cook

    nk (dbc370)


Powered by WordPress.

Page loaded in: 0.4574 secs.