Patterico's Pontifications

5/2/2018

Fascinating: Giuliani vs. Trump on the Payment to Stormy Daniels

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 8:20 pm



This is a fascinating clip, for many reasons.

Most obviously, the claim made here by Rudy “WTF did I just say?” Giuliani, that the payment to Stormy Daniels was “funneled” through Michael Cohen’s law firm and reimbursed by Trump, makes Trump’s professed ignorance about the payment on April 6 seem … can I be kind here and say “Clintonian”? Yeah, let’s go with “Clintonian.”

But the other fascinating thing is more subtle: the spin. The spin involved when Laura Ingraham tries to tamp down her astonishment about this — phrasing the apparent contradiction as something the left will “seize on,” and rushing to remind everyone of the awful bias faced by poor President Trump. The spin involved when Byron York cheerfully seems to say that this version of events was perhaps offered by Giuliani because they are worried about the “campaign finance vulnerability” — thus cheerfully implying (without seeming to realize that he is implying) that the truth may have been massaged to address whatever threat the administration thought most worrying. And, most delicious of all, the spin involved when some yutz of a Congressman explains that, hey, Trump is so wealthy that he may have authorized a $130,000 hush money payment to a porn star and maybe it just got “lost in the shuffle.”

UPDATE: The Donald congratulates Rudy on his performance tonight:

Thanks to DCSCA.

[Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.]

83 Responses to “Fascinating: Giuliani vs. Trump on the Payment to Stormy Daniels”

  1. It’s really quite simple, you see. It all makes sense when you realize that what really happened here is ________________.

    Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to fill in that blank.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  2. This is a fascinating clip, for many reasons, too…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBKu9OJ8Ltk

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  3. the hooker was paid to be quiet but she tried to do blackmail instead

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  4. I wouldn’t use the term “Clintonian” about Trump’s lies re not knowing about the $130,000. To me, “Clintonian” is the kind of too-clever-by-half parsing that Clinton operatives used to excuse Bill and/or Hillary’s dishonest sleazoid behavior. Trump just flat-out lied. He’s not smart enough for lawyerly sentence diagramming used by the Clinton machine. The Urban Dictionary:

    A condition affecting statements. A Clintonian Statement typically skirts the issue or spins words.

    Paul Montagu (e6130e)

  5. what’s ironic is how most of these “campaign finance laws” only exist cause Meghan’s coward-pig “war hero” daddy got caught with his hand all up in Charles Keating’s butt

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  6. (butt finger$)

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  7. Hooboy!

    And Laura Ingraham’s voice is more grating on YouTube than it is on the radio.

    nk (dbc370)

  8. It’s really quite simple, you see. It all makes sense when you realize that what really happened here is ________________.

    Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to fill in that blank.

    How about

    ObamaFusionComeySwampClintonWitchHuntChappaquiddickHolderSteeleProcessCrimeLernerHatfillLynchBinaryNoCollusionDeepStateSethRichFlight93MuellerUraniumOne

    Any questions?

    Dave (445e97)

  9. I wouldn’t use the term “Clintonian” about Trump’s lies re not knowing about the $130,000. To me, “Clintonian” is the kind of too-clever-by-half parsing that Clinton operatives used to excuse Bill and/or Hillary’s dishonest sleazoid behavior. Trump just flat-out lied. He’s not smart enough for lawyerly sentence diagramming used by the Clinton machine.

    I’m using “Clintonian” because I’m not sure the contradiction is direct and clear enough for it to be an obvious and clear lie. If you spin like a top and use the “it depends on what the meaning of is is” type of ethic, you might be able to mount some kind of nauseating and embarrassing defense.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  10. UPDATE: The Donald congratulates Rudy on his performance tonight:

    Thanks to DCSCA.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  11. It’s really quite simple, you see. It all makes sense when you realize that what really happened here is ________________.

    I hate it when I’m asked to state the obvious: Covfefe.

    nk (dbc370)

  12. the takeaway here is how the raid on President Trump’s lawyer,

    organized by the gestapo men and women of the nazi FBI with an assist by naughty Judge Kimba Boom Boom Lick Lick

    failed to deprive President Trump of extremely competent representation

    advantage: President Donald Trump

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  13. He’s not smart enough for lawyerly sentence diagramming used by the Clinton machine.

    And more to the point, he doesn’t have to be.

    Why go to the trouble when you can openly lie and get away with it? Feigning respect for the truth just shows weakness.

    Dave (445e97)

  14. Feigning respect for the truth just shows weakness.

    duh

    they teach you this the first day at fbi school

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  15. Thanks, Patterico.

    You know, what was slightly disturbing about this, to those of us who lived and worked in NY back in the day, anyway, is how at ease Rudy was doing his drag routine at select city galas and events- he was increasingly comfortable w/it. He’s no Milton Berle. Go figure.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  16. I’ve been kind of wondering something about Stormy hush money.

    I read the agreement as included in the lawsuit against Cohen and Trump. Obviously I’m not a lawyer, but the money that was paid was described as a settlement of claims.

    I’m less clear what the purpose of the phony corporation was, given that the agreement was actually between Daniels/Cohen/Trump (under their pseudonyms).

    But are such settlements taxable? If, in fact, the payment was made in return for providing a service (staying quiet) wouldn’t it then be compensation, and wouldn’t the payer have to report it to the IRS as such?

    Just curious if there might be a tax fraud angle vs. Cohen, Spanky or Skanky here.

    I’d be surprised if you could legally pay six-figure sums to people tax-free by disguising it as a settlement of claims.

    Dave (445e97)

  17. what number stormy daniels post is this btw just curious

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  18. she has funguses you know

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  19. mom said i shouldn’t say where the funguses are but they’re… down there

    you know what i mean

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  20. grody funguses all up in it

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  21. ok g’nite gtg

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  22. Drag queen Giuliani told Fox’s Boyo that Comey is: “…a very perverted man.” That’s just plain queer language:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMWfTTfqVI4

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  23. Rudy broached this subject tonight on Hannity, stating that there is NO campaign finance violation; that Cohen initiated the payment to Stormy; and that Cohen was reimbursed in the normal course of (lawyer) business.

    askeptic (8d10f9)

  24. grody funguses all up in it

    happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 9:54 pm

    Oh the places you’ll go!

    Pinandpuller (061e95)

  25. Laura was not too keen on discovering “inconsistencies”. “The left is gonna seize on that.”

    The problem here isn’t “the left”, Laura. Eighty percent of Republicans have chosen to consistently believe the inconsistencies. Now maybe that number will temporarily drop to 78 percent or so… but Republicans will accept this from the President. Laura will get over it too.

    “Look! Over there! Its that ‘perverted’ Comey” said the delicious drag queen.

    noel (b4d580)

  26. Wow, being blackmailed by a spurned porn star, reimbursement of a payment that he didn’t know about until after it was done.

    People forget why did Daniels approach Trump several times? She wanted to be on the apprentice like tens of thousands of other fame seekers

    But hey whatever justifies the hate.

    Clinton lied, promoted an intern, used government money to carry on an affair in the people’s house.

    Trump had a porn star knocking on the door to his house, managed to get one picture with him and had been paid three times, denied the affair multiple times, and now is suing for more money, convinced by a twice disbarred lawyer who just recently was released from professional supervision

    Hey way to tell both sides of the story

    EPWJ (3f4832)

  27. There’s a lot of things wrong with a legal system which allows a prostitute to sue a sitting President, but it’s the same legal system which allows a piece of garbage like Donald Trump to sit in the White House instead of a prison.

    nk (dbc370)

  28. He didn’t know at the time of payment. Obviously.

    Bruce (103288)

  29. 27. Legal system? Trump wouldn’t be where he is without the American electorate as well.

    Gryph (08c844)

  30. It doesn’t matter if Giuliani and/or Trump live out their remaining life as their “true self”. It will just increase fan club membership. The left paved the way for acceptance, but surely this not who they had in mind as “firsts”.

    urbanleftbehind (24e2ff)

  31. 26. “But hey whatever justifies the hate.”

    In times of universal deceit, telling the truth is an act of revolution.

    (h/t George Orwell)

    Gryph (08c844)

  32. Gryph

    So why are people assuming facts that aren’t there, it’s not lying per se, but it gets close to the line.

    EPWJ (3f4832)

  33. Nk,

    Really piece of garbage? Name calling, that’s when arguments run out. So you can’t prove anything make a statement that the Stormy Daniels thing is wrong, then try to cover that admission up by calling trumps election wrong

    Time to scrape that Hillary 2016 off your cars bumper…

    EPWJ (3f4832)

  34. Hillary? I told you! I voted for the Putin/Duterte ticket. They’re strong leaders who have control of their countries.

    (I was impressed with the way Deng Xiaoping handled Tiananmen Square but he is dead and I still don’t know enough about Xi Jinping.)

    nk (dbc370)

  35. Man, is our President confident. He knows he can say and do anything and get away with it. He wrote his own glowing health assessment and passed it off as his doctor’s. He called media throughout his career with tantalizing “Donald Trump news” under fake names like John Barron. Including once where he claimed to be many times wealthier than he was to get on the Richest 400 List. Wow. He pays off porn stars and denies all of it without a blink. Then admits it… without a blink.

    Confidence Man. Confidence.

    noel (b4d580)

  36. 31… “Power springs from the lips of your anus.”

    —- Chairman Meow

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  37. Kind of early to be gargling obscenities, Haiku.

    noel (b4d580)

  38. noel,

    We have it on good authority that he is only conning the people who don’t like him and don’t trust him, and giving his winnings to the people who do like him and trust him.

    nk (dbc370)

  39. Gargle this, noel.

    Colonel Haiku (af8791)

  40. This is a very silly post – what makes you think anybody’s going to argue that it has to make sense? It’s Trump, nothing makes sense and that’s the joke. The more absurd the claims and the more ridiculous the lies, the funnier the performance. Just imagine you’ve fallen asleep watching a Monty Python marathon and this is all a dream, you’ll feel better.

    Jerryskids (cfad51)

  41. The average guys are saying to each other: “Wow! Trump fcuked a porn-star. And paid her 130 grand. What a dude!”

    I’m sort of thinking the same thing myself, but mostly to annoy the never-Trumpers.

    Fred Z (05d938)

  42. 41. Gee, Fred. I’m glad that Trump’s Quasi-and-possibly-il-legal activities bring you some joy.

    Douchebag.

    Gryph (08c844)

  43. TRUMP: Not only did I pay a porn star to stay silent about the fact that I had disappointing sex with her shortly after my trophy wife gave birth to our son, it appears I lied about it to the American people.

    PATTERICO: *links video showing this*

    COMMENTARIAT: Wow, Patterico is a jerk!

    Patterico (05d44b)

  44. No, Patterico: just some of the people you let post here.

    Simon Jester (ad6a15)

  45. President Trump’s a good picklehead I like him very much.

    People like to be mean to him but not me. I think this is mostly cause i really value all the good stuff he’s done for America.

    Think about it we’re so much better off than we were just a few years ago, and we have a lot to look forward to as well.

    Thank you President Trump!

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  46. The average guys are saying to each other: “Wow! Trump fcuked a porn-star. And paid her 130 grand. What a dude!”

    I doubt it. The average guys are saying: “$130,000? Sheree does it for two appletinis and an order of buffalo wings. And she’s been around a lot less. I thought Trump was supposed to be a germophobe and a good businessman.”

    nk (dbc370)

  47. You seriously consider Trump a stud? Has he ever been with a woman who was not store-bought?

    nk (dbc370)

  48. 47. “I thought Trump was supposed to be a germophobe and a good businessman.”

    Germophobe? Perhaps. Good businessman? How much business savvy does it take to play around with the inheritance daddy left you and barely make out with as much as you could have had from an index fund?

    Gryph (08c844)

  49. 48.

    *Gryph shakes his Magic 8 Ball*

    SIGNS POINT TO “NO”

    Gryph (08c844)

  50. In a new filing demanding a full hearing on what Paul Manafort’s lawyers say is a series of illegal governmental leaks about his case, his legal team also reveals the government has provided no evidence of any contact between Manafort and Russian officials.

    The special counsel’s office says it has no evidence in its possession responsive to Manafort’s request for transcripts, notes, or tapes of any and all conversation or contacts between Russian intelligence or government officials and Manafort, according to the filing.

    This revelation, and the series of potentially false and illegal leaks from myriad government officials claiming they had such evidence, call into question the legal basis of Mueller’s probe of Manafort, which was ostensibly launched to ferret out illegal conspiracy between the Trump campaign and foreign officials, Manafort’s attorneys say.

    Mueller and the treasonous and sleazy men and women of the FBI are doing lies on the American people

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  51. Once again, we are paying attention to the effects of Trump’s fire hose…..

    Appalled (96665e)

  52. Deny, delay, obfuscate, keep the press entertained but always tell the truth slowly. You’re right. It’s positively Clintonian.

    crazy (5c5b07)

  53. The special counsel’s office says it has no evidence in its possession responsive to Manafort’s request for transcripts, notes, or tapes of any and all conversation or contacts between Russian intelligence or government officials and Manafort, according to the filing.

    This is common, usual, and ordinary prosecution and police tactic to avoid Brady disclosure. It does not mean the FBI or other law enforcement or other witnesses the prosecution intends to call does not have them, ready to produce them whenever the prosecution snaps its fingers. Which is why I always served subpoenas on the police departments and people on the prosecution’s witness list.

    nk (dbc370)

  54. “I certainly didn’t sign up for this when I went to work for the Trump campaign and I will never, ever work on another Republican campaign for as long as I live… and I think that’s part of this, Tucker. This is a punishment strategy. I think they want to destroy the president, they want to destroy his family, they want to destroy his businesses, they want to destroy his friends so that no billionaire, say, in 15 years wakes up and tells his wife, you know what, they country’s broken and only I can fix it…. His wife will say, ‘are you crazy Did you see what happened to Donald Trump?’ That’s what this is about.”

    this is what the dirty men and women of the gestapo FBI are doing on America

    exactly what Putin wanted

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  55. Mr. Caputo found out that the life of a remora who latches on to a politician is not always patronage and plums, is what happened. He should stop whining. The same thing happened to a lot bigger remoras who latched on to Trump, almost too many to list.

    nk (dbc370)

  56. 56. The drama isn’t over yet. This is how politicians function. You cross the Dems, you pay the price. You cross Trump, you pay the price. Politicians will never give up their power, and will only relucantly share it.

    Gryph (08c844)

  57. I had a dream last night that Trump switched parties and became a Democrat. And people here started attacking him for the things that they are now defending him.

    Chuck Bartowski (bc1c71)

  58. i don’t remember anything i dreamed last night

    it was secret stuff i guess

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  59. Rudy broached this subject tonight on Hannity, stating that there is NO campaign finance violation; that Cohen initiated the payment to Stormy; and that Cohen was reimbursed in the normal course of (lawyer) business.

    askeptic (8d10f9) — 5/2/2018 @ 11:54 pm

    It’s the lawyer’s fault! Imagine the bill that the World’s Greatest Businessman or his hand-picked World’s Best Accountant paid without even noticing (let alone telling Trump/Trump caring about):

    BILL FOR SERVICES

    Consultations with client regarding personal Trump matters (1 minute) — $(No charge)

    Negotiations with third parties regarding personal Trump matters (4 hours) — $4,000.00

    Copy/fax/related charges regarding personal Trump matters — $17.00

    Miscellaneous expense regarding personal Trump matters — $130,000.00

    TOTAL DUE: $134,017.00

    DRJ (15874d)

  60. Heh!

    nk (dbc370)

  61. At $35,000/mo now we know what at least 4 months of that retainer are said to have paid for.

    crazy (5c5b07)

  62. You seriously consider Trump a stud? Has he ever been with a woman who was not store-bought?

    I’m not sure who you’re quoting — whoever it is, I apparently have blocked — but LOL at that notion. Even his marriage is transactional and his wife has basically admitted that.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  63. “They know more about the Trump campaign than anyone who ever worked there”

    “The Senate and the House are net fishing,” Caputo said. “The special counsel is spearfishing. They know what they are aiming at and are deadly accurate.”

    Giuliani made splashier news but Michael Caputo probably made bigger news. So maybe that’s why Giuliani chose last night to pick up the fire hose.

    crazy (5c5b07)

  64. DRJ

    One of the law firms I administered, we were a niche firm that handled partnership agreements, partnerships reputation management, not only for law firms in DC, LA, as well as all of Texas. We as a part of our business managed the reputations of many engineering firms and corporations and medical practices.

    Not only is 130,000 an extremely minor amount (bill oreilly paid 32,000,000 million and I believe 2,000,000) some law firms have routinely paid high six figure and low seven figure amounts to spurned girlfriends, hookers, paralegals etc.

    Also as you all are either forgetting this was negotiated by another lawyer with a great reputation, and routinely did these kind of agreements.

    And the fact that stormy had been paid once or twice before and had been unsuccessfully blackmailing trump for a decade.

    Kinda takes the steam out of the manufactured outrage…

    EPWJ (92097f)

  65. I think you are right, crazy.

    DRJ (15874d)

  66. You seem to think I am ignorant about how law firms work, EPWJ. How many law firms have you been a partner or shareholder at?

    DRJ (15874d)

  67. Even his marriage is transactional and his wife has basically admitted that.

    Basically how, is there video?

    EPWJ (92097f)

  68. 68. It’s quite common knowledge that Melania married Trump to advance her modelling career. She had a reputation for a sort of “East-European stiffness” that repeatedly cost her modelling gigs until her marriage to Trump was directly responsible for a spread in British GQ. In that magazine, she appeared scantily clad and handcuffed to a suitcase that Donald himself provided. When asked what was in the suitcase, Melania wouldn’t give a straight answer; she was quite coy.

    And if you want to know what The Donald got out of the deal, all you have to do is listen to the way he talked about her on the Howard Stern show. Be aware that if you do, the audio is very NSFW.

    Gryph (08c844)

  69. DRJ

    I never implied you were ignorant and please except my apology that I made you feel that way. I was making a reference to the amount paid was minor, that there are probably more transactions as he is exposed to literally hundreds of people every day. You might have a different opinion than mine about the validity of such a claim, but I was only imparting my experience supervising and or assisting several lawyers defending firms with several hundred lawyers, engineers, doctors, dentists and routinely making settlements most without evidence or merit but when it comes to interactions between two people like Meagan Kelly said to her colleagues at NBC you don’t know what you don’t know.

    It’s not uncommon for an executive to have many false claims against them. We learned that the pizza guy Cain, who ran a bit ago his company made several payments many only dubious claims. As an example and he wasn’t let go.

    Like I said, I can only imagine what hurdles you had to go through, the challenges in your life, to be the highly successful person you are.

    I was not trying in any way to belittle that

    EPWJ (92097f)

  70. nk @54. In layman’s language does that mean the government is under no obligation to disclose other incriminating or exculpatory info like this in it’s possession until they file a charge based on it? Or are you saying the Special Counsel doesn’t have it in its possession but may know who does if he decides to use it.

    crazy (5c5b07)

  71. crazy, I think he’s saying the latter.

    Chuck Bartowski (bc1c71)

  72. “His wife will say, ‘are you crazy Did you see what happened to Donald Trump?’ That’s what this is about.”

    The swamp is sending the signal – try to be like Trump and you will be destroyed. I’ve always been saddened at how Cruz acted after the primaries. He could have been Trump’s wing-man and positioned himself for 2020 or maybe gotten a SCOTUS seat. Instead, he had to act like a big baby and cry about how his wife. Sad.

    rcocean (1a839e)

  73. You may be right about the niche firms, EPWJ. BTW, does stroking egos work with attorneys like that? It doesn’t fool me but I never worked at a boutique firm.

    DRJ (15874d)

  74. DRJ

    I don’t understand what you’re referring to about the ego, seriously I have no clue

    By the way for reference I found this article interesting!

    https://www.brookings.edu/testimonies/attorney-generals-special-counsel-regulations/

    EPWJ (92097f)

  75. crazy @71. Or are you saying the Special Counsel doesn’t have it in its possession but may know who does if he decides to use it.

    Exactly.

    nk (dbc370)

  76. “convinced by a twice disbarred lawyer who just recently was released from professional supervision.”

    – EPWJ

    You’ve made this claim before. Who are you referring to? Avenatti, or someone else?

    Leviticus (efada1)

  77. Newsweek had a title Daniels lawyer was disbarred twice which was true, but it wasn’t Avenatti

    However it has just been disclosed that Avenatti is demanding his own prime time show on NBC for his cooperation

    EPWJ (39cba9)

  78. However as I understood some reports the first lawyer who negotiated the contract is involved in this

    EPWJ (39cba9)

  79. Apparently Avenatti is a paid Democrat political operative and has serious butt hurt over losing a big case against trump and the apprentice. He is a hard charger, reckless personality according to other lawyers, he also is awaiting a big verdict about the defective gown issue with Kimberly Clark that most likely will be downgraded

    “As an attorney, Avenatti has worked on suits against major accounting firms and celebrities like Paris Hilton. He even sued The Apprentice, Mr. Trump’s reality TV show, and its producer Mark Burnett, on behalf of a client who said they had stolen his idea”

    This is from CBS, not Fox News, and he is taking big legal mal practice risks by his behavior with Daniels, and the fact that a twice disbarred lawyer negotiated the original agreement and maybe apart of the legal team.

    EPWJ (39cba9)

  80. Did you ever work for attorneys that practice defamation law?

    DRJ (15874d)

  81. 52.Once again, we are paying attention to the effects of Trump’s fire hose…..

    Americans enjoy getting hosed these days.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  82. 40.This is a very silly post

    No it’s not; be the cameras or clothing on or off, these two lads are in bed with each other.

    DCSCA (797bc0)


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