Patterico's Pontifications

3/8/2018

Trump to Meet with Kim

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:36 pm



There was a looooot of whining about Obama meeting with anyone without “preconditions.” Oh, well: as I said the other day, North Korea is totally going to denuclearize, so this is all good. Also they’ll give up testing during the negotiations! Of course their testing site is probably unusable at this point, so, you know . . . but still!

He’s gonna make a great deal, as he always does. ObamaCare: gone. National debt: on its way to being wiped out. North Korea: denuked. Done, done, and done.

[Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.]

237 Responses to “Trump to Meet with Kim”

  1. Didn’t they sew a bomb into a poor Saudi feller?

    Xray everybody, Mr. President Trump.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  2. Waste of time. Wonder if he’s being pushed to do it by South Korea.

    NJRob (b00189)

  3. this is just what you do when all you have is an incompetent tatted-up piss-stained tranny-assed military to work with

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  4. I had forgotton that Anton Cermak was killed in lieu of FDR in Miami way back when.

    Do you think Rahm Emanuel wants to go to NK?

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  5. Rob, the account I read says SKor is indeed pushing it.

    Kishnevi (c62fd3)

  6. Can we be sure that Trump knows it’s Kim Jong Un and not Kim Kardashian?

    nk (dbc370)

  7. Yes but south koreas spy chief thinks the nuclear program is all forits all for show. Mr. Suh haan

    narciso (d1f714)

  8. I’m sure you’re right.

    Those South Korean diplomats reading a statement on the lawn of the White House have simply fallen for the “Lucy and the football” trick by the Norks once again.

    And Trump’s approach to dealing with Kim and North Korea has pretty much been a carbon copy of the failed approach of the previous 4 Presidents who all reached deals with the North, all of which failed.

    Since the Trump approach has been identical to the approach of all the other Presidents, I’m sure they Norks will have things all their own way again.

    Its just like the debt promise and Obamacare. Three sides of the same coin. You make total cents — like always.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  9. I think that all the nukes that North Korea’s “tested” were obsolete Chinese warheads that the Chinese were going to discard, but it’s only a guess and besides the Chinese are too straightforward and honest to try and double-bluff us like that.

    nk (dbc370)

  10. The boosters came from the Ukraine, yuralmash so did the warheads too probably. This was back when Obama was doing his best black knight impression

    narciso (d1f714)

  11. You know, those things have expiration dates. Fissionable matter degrades. It also degrades the stuff around it.

    nk (dbc370)

  12. The fact she mentions Wendy Sherman as an authority on anything, although frankly we haven’t had a bed on that region in 70 years

    https://mobile.twitter.com/annafifield/status/971929225182593024

    narciso (d1f714)

  13. They should send Dennis Rodman as the official IAEA Inspector.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  14. Radiation is not likely to affect him.

    narciso (d1f714)

  15. Done, done, and done.

    The check from Mexico for 100% of the wall is in the mail, too!

    Kim and President Postliterate are gonna be best buds, I just know it!

    Dave (445e97)

  16. Trump to Meet with Kim

    Peace with honor.

    Should be great TeeVee; just in time for the May sweeps, eh Captain, sir?!

    ‘Living is easy with eyes closed; misunderstanding all you see…’ – Strawberry Fields Forever

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  17. Why isn’t it the same as tax reform, regulatory rollback, and judicial appointments?

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  18. He’s a one-man Geiger-counter, narciso.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  19. Oh right — NeverTrumpism.

    Forgot.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  20. This is the Bitchfest Blog.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  21. “We’re a long way from negotiations. We just need to be very clear-eyed and realistic about it,” Tillerson said. “I don’t know yet, until we are able to meet ourselves face to face with representatives of North Korea, whether the conditions are right to even begin thinking about negotiations.”

    Trump’s Secretary of State, hours before Spanky made a spur of the moment decision to take the Nork bait.

    Chaos? What chaos?

    Dave (445e97)

  22. “I won’t rule out direct talks with Kim Jong Un. I just won’t,” the President said. “As far as the risk of dealing with a madman is concerned, that’s his problem, not mine.”

    LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

    As Dan Quayle would say: “How true that is.”

    Dave (445e97)

  23. Its either this, or a preemptive military strike.

    narciso (d1f714)

  24. ConDave and his pollo loco…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  25. It’s the same trite idiocy we heard from Caldecott, Schell, scheer, talbott thirty five years ago.

    narciso (d1f714)

  26. Rome – built in a day! We have the best builders, ladies and gentlement. The best!

    Ingot (1de9ec)

  27. Fissionable matter degrades.

    The half-life of Uranium-235 is 700 million years.

    The half-life of Plutonium-239 is “only” 24,100 years.

    The electronics and conventional explosives required to make the magic happen will “degrade” long before the glowy stuff.

    Tritium – not fissionable, but sometimes used as a part of the fuel in thermonuclear bombs, and to “boost” (increase the yield) of fission weapons – does have a relatively short half-life of around 12 years. There are alternatives like Lithium Deuteride that are stable and relatively easy to make, though.

    Dave (1e7627)

  28. nk, it’s not that China wouldn’t double-bluff us; it’s that the general rule is that you never let any nuke out of your hands. That could only happen if it was entirely under Chinese control the whole time, and it would also be obvious to the intelligence community. All atomic weapons have a special ‘signature’ and it’s very easy to tell who did what with uranium/plutonium from where. We’d already know if it was a Chinese spare bomb.

    Ingot (1de9ec)

  29. Didn’t they sew a bomb into a poor Saudi feller?

    The #NeverTrump part of me thinks sewing a bomb into Trump would be a good move.

    The #OhSh1tItsTrumpDealWithIt part of me thinks that this a necessary move. Trump goes the distance in May, then we bomb the everloving crap out of them in June when they turn down our stern verification conditions.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  30. There are alternatives like Lithium Deuteride that are stable and relatively easy to make, though

    For some. More to the point, tritium is rare and takes some effort to come by. It’s hard to believe that NK is producing it domestically. Too many rabbits, not enough hats, for the stuff they’ve done so far.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  31. I’d like to see Trump show up with a bucket of KFC.

    ‘Have you tried the fajita bowl, Kim?’

    papertiger (c8116c)

  32. More to the point, tritium is rare and takes some effort to come by. It’s hard to believe that NK is producing it domestically.

    1) They don’t need it for basic fission bombs up to around 50 kt yield (Hiroshima was 15 kt)
    2) It doesn’t really require any extra infrastructure if you already have a nuclear reactor

    Dave (445e97)

  33. I’d like to see Trump show up with a bucket of KFC.

    I’d like to see Kim present Trump with a half dozen porn actresses and their signed NDA’s.

    Dave (445e97)

  34. To make ConDave’s, Tilly’s and Cthulhu’s Friday l:

    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/09/nonfarm-payrolls-february.html

    Colonel Haiku (3ad005)

  35. ConDave was on the ground floor at GE and designed their innerNUKE reactor.

    Colonel Haiku (3ad005)

  36. I’d like to contribute toward ConDave’s one-way ticket back to Gimplandia…

    Colonel Haiku (3ad005)

  37. Asiri the fellow is less accomplished than you think

    https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/269537/forget-russia-what-about-qatar-daniel-greenfield

    narciso (d1f714)

  38. Was Comrade Ben flagged whilst I was in the hospital last week or did he go join Black Lives Matter like my loving grandson?

    Rev.Hoagie (1b0402)

  39. Sent packing into exile on the Isle of Mirrors…

    Colonel Haiku (3ad005)

  40. Damn, I missed it. How long or is it forever?

    Do you guys think Trump will be mentioned for a Nobel Peace Prize because of his efforts with Kim and Xi? Or are they saved for people who have done absolutely nothing in the cause of peace since that silly crap with Hussein?

    Colonel, you keep triggering poor ConDave. You’re just making his TDS worse.

    Rev.Hoagie (1b0402)

  41. The former, he’s haunting my favorite watering hole natch.

    narciso (d1f714)

  42. I’d like to see Kim present Trump with a half dozen porn actresses and their signed NDA’s.

    Dave (445e97)

    So when did you join al Queda?

    I admire your forthright North Korea boosterism. A lot of people would hide that inner light.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  43. Isikoff and corn, got upstaged by their latest bag of kitty litter.

    narciso (d1f714)

  44. “We’re a long way from negotiations. We just need to be very clear-eyed and realistic about it,” Tillerson said. “I don’t know yet, until we are able to meet ourselves face to face with representatives of North Korea, whether the conditions are right to even begin thinking about negotiations.”

    Trump’s Secretary of State, hours before Spanky made a spur of the moment decision to take the Nork bait.

    Chaos? What chaos?

    Dave (445e97) — 3/8/2018 @ 9:48 pm

    The White House said Trump would meet Kim Jong Un….not that he’d negotiate with him. What’s the inconsistency and chaos between Tillerson’s clear, one sentence statement and the White House’s clear, one sentence statement? Do you have a double secret decoder ring?

    Lenny (5ea732)

  45. @38 – Comrade Ben was banned for life, which is a shame because I always looked forward to your fisking him. You need a new target.

    Lenny (5ea732)

  46. Man, he got a life sentence? He must have really said some crap to Patterico because it takes a lot. Now I need to go back post by post and see what happened. Damn, a life sentence. He got a longer sentence than the illegal who murdered Kate Steinle.

    Rev.Hoagie (1b0402)

  47. I think he got bounced for a week only. I have enjoyed the threads having 100 less comments and will be saddened when he returns.

    BuDuh (fc15db)

  48. He will not be returning. He sent me emails showing that he took the comment threads way, way, waaayyyy too seriously. It became very very very very very personal for him and I had no choice but to disengage from him entirely.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  49. Some people just can’t face up to the fact that Donald Trump was elected POTUS, that he’s fulfilling his campaign promises, and that his economic policies have reversed the Obama Malaise and reinvigorated the entrepreneurial spirit of this great nation.

    Because of Trump our enemies fear us, our allies trust us, and our trading partners know we deal on the up and up.

    Yet, in the face of overwhelming evidence #NeverTrumpers, blindly cling to their bitter animosities, perversely insist on trashing Trump’s astonishing string of highly positive accomplishments, and smear Trump as a deceitful liar, smear his wife as a gold digger, and smear his children as incompetent fools.

    #NeverTrumpers are willfully blind, arrogantly wrongheaded, and proud of their intransigent ignorance – which they prefer to define as principled opposition to an ignoble interloper (who’s accomplishments they refuse to acknowledge, and can’t begin to match).

    ropelight (b14033)

  50. Why isn’t it the same as tax reform, regulatory rollback, and judicial appointments?

    Maybe because those are super-easy and this is not?

    Patterico (115b1f)

  51. I wonder what Obama would have bent over

    mg (9e54f8)

  52. And gave the little Creep?

    mg (9e54f8)

  53. he’s gone and now we don’t even know where he is if he’s ok if he’s eating enough if he has clean socks and even though I know how very far apart we are

    it helps to think we might be wishing on the same bright star

    not a lot helps but some anyways

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  54. Maybe because those are super-easy and this is not?

    Patterico (115b1f) — 3/9/2018 @ 7:43 am

    Funny that we haven’t seen much in the way of that before, being so “super-easy” and all.

    Colonel Haiku (3ad005)

  55. Yes, happyfeet. Somewhere out there Comrade Ben is reading and seeing the same news we are and still drawing the wrong conclusions.

    Rev.Hoagie (1b0402)

  56. #NeverTrumpers are willfully blind, arrogantly wrongheaded, and proud of their intransigent ignorance – which they prefer to define as principled opposition to an ignoble interloper (who’s accomplishments they refuse to acknowledge, and can’t begin to match).

    they’re also very shallow people and also just rotten inside

    when you have trash like george w. bush who senselessly slaughtered so many of our hapless tatters passing these grotesque and facile judgments on our president, President Donald Trump, you just have to be the bigger person and disassociate

    there’s nothing you can do for them

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  57. Yes, happyfeet. Somewhere out there Comrade Ben is reading and seeing the same news we are and still drawing the wrong conclusions.

    that’s a beautiful thought Mr. Reverend

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  58. the question i have for the group is this

    Even as the Trump Administration boldly proceeds with unprecedented diplomatic efforts, our posture towards the North Korean regime requires us to have an increasingly credible military option on the table.

    Given these circumstances, can America afford to have a chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee who’s flat out not up to the job?

    cowardpig war hero John McCain needs to resign and let somebody who’s capable of doing the job take over

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  59. That coud be the Tom Cotton redemption role.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  60. @51 ropelight – I would not define myself as a NeverTrumper yet I am not a Trump fan. I can see that he has had accomplishments in many areas and can give him credit for those. Do I think the economy is better. Oh yes I do. Do I give him credit for that? Yes I do. Yet many of the things that are being touted as accomplishments are not in my mind. I am all for cutting regulations, but when regulations are cut to benefit big business over mom and pop business I have issues with that. What say you? The regulations being cut in agriculture are the result of the government doing the bidding of corporate agriculture. The organic rules are being changed so organic is going to have zero meaning soon and the result is big ag can label their foods as organic under the new rules when it is NOT! Before small farmers, family farms, truck farms jumped through hoops to develop a market for their product. Now there’s a market and demand and big-ag wants in without doing the hard work of following the rules. They lobby and get the rules cut and changed. Who cares that it’s our food chain. Who cares that it’s hurting small businesses. Trump bows to big business, that’s who he is so it is understandable. But that doesn’t make it right. Trump thinks big business. He meets with steel guys and boom! Tariffs!

    My husband is a Trump supporter but the tariff issue has really upset him. He sees nothing but economic downfall as do most of his co-workers. He’s in the oil and gas industry. He is in the process of expanding a field and upon announcement of the tariff every single bidder for his job, the pipe, the downhole tubing etc withdrew their bids. Nobody will even bid right now and it is guaranteed that the price will go up. Eight years ago he built a pipeline and they put out their government required standards for the pipe that they needed to solicit bids. Not a single US company bid on the contract. They pursued them, asked why, they wanted to buy American. So why didn’t they bid? Because the US companies couldn’t produce the pipe to the government required standards. They did not have the capability. So Japan got the pipe bid. The US was producing sub-standard pipe. They did not keep up with industry and government standards so the company had to go outside the US for their pipe. Now they want to blame the other countries for losing business? Sorry, that’s on the US companies. They were stuck in the 70s and the unions kept them there (a whole other story). And the really ridiculous thing is that the tariff is announced and as soon as it comes out there are “exceptions”….. um isn’t that what Obama did with Obamacare when it was obvious it wasn’t going to work? Exceptions. Ridiculous. China is just going to send their steel through Mexico. Laundered steel will be the norm.

    And NK is not a victory, history shows that. Trump gets no credit in my book for getting NK to the table for talks, many have done it before him and we all know the results of that. I’m highly skeptical of any success in that arena.

    My issues with Trump are many but actually I have more issues with die-hard Trumpsters. They violently defend every move Trump makes when for any other person it would be despicable behavior or actions. Unable to admit any faults, that the chaos is real, that he thrives on drama, that he undermines his own people striking out on his and own ignoring educated advice. He gives his people no solid direction because he flounders about changing his tune every other tweet. I don’t even want to go into the moral issues. The blind defense of indefensible actions is beyond me.

    Marci (98fec4)

  61. they’re also very shallow people and also just rotten inside

    I am not!

    nk (dbc370)

  62. Actually, I’m pretty sanguine about this. If Trump keeps any deal he makes with Kim Jong Un the way he has kept all his other deals and promises — whether personal, business or political — we have nothing to worry about.

    nk (dbc370)

  63. nono not you but Bill Kristol’s a horrible person for sure

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  64. cowardpig war hero John McCain needs to resign and let somebody who’s capable of doing the job take over
    happyfeet (28a91b) — 3/9/2018 @ 8:32 am

    Other than the cowardpig part I would totally agree. John McCain needs to resign from his Senate seat, not just the chairmanship, and let someone healthy take his place. It is self-pride not desire to represent his constituents that keep a man in that position in his condition. Not that he’s the first to do so and I’m sure he won’t be the last. Power is a hard thing to let go of.

    Marci (98fec4)

  65. A man needs a reason for which to live as well the means by which to live. For the longest time McCain had a gorgeous blonde who owned a beer distributorship as his wife. But now, at his age and with his medical problems, I seriously doubt that he can drink or … you know. All he has is the Senate.

    nk (dbc370)

  66. Name-callers who support Trump no matter what he does vs people like Marci, who give thoughtful reasons for her comments. I’m with Marci.

    DRJ (15874d)

  67. What about name callers who don’t support Trump?

    BuDuh (fc15db)

  68. If Ted Cruz were President then John McCain et al would vote differently on a health care bill? Is there any evidence for that assertion? Trump can’t force Senators to keep their promises.

    Mike P. (dddb3b)

  69. According to dean healer, justice Kennedy is retiring in the summer.

    narciso (d1f714)

  70. Name-callers who support Trump no matter what he does vs people like Marci, who give thoughtful reasons for her comments. I’m with Marci.

    “I like Marci and I’m a name caller who supports our president, President Donald Trump, no matter what,” happyfeet said thoughtfully.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  71. Name-callers who support Trump no matter what he does vs people like Marci, who give thoughtful reasons for her comments. I’m with Marci.
    DRJ (15874d) — 3/9/2018 @ 9:44 am

    Why thank you. I am often discounted in daily life and I’ve learned to not take it personally. I was once at a corporate “team-building” event with my husband. A husband/wife event. The women were all sitting about talking while playing word games. One woman asked me what my degree was in after she had been talking about her degree to great extent. I replied that I did not graduate from college. She actually looked at me and said, “oh, and you seem so intelligent.” (emphasis on *seem*) REALLY? I just sat there and calmly said, “I don’t find that education and intelligence are mutually exclusive, in fact I often find them the very antithesis of each other.” She gave me a funny look and said she didn’t understand what that meant. I didn’t explain it to her. Some day she’s going to get it that I actually insulted her. Politely though. The arrogance of it was just amazing.

    Marci (98fec4)

  72. I just like happyfeet’s name. It makes me smile. Happy Feet. I imagine dancing… in flip flops….

    Marci (98fec4)

  73. the US companies couldn’t produce the pipe to the government required standards. They did not have the capability. So Japan got the pipe bid. The US was producing sub-standard pipe.

    That right there, being as steel production is a national security issue, is horrifying and a huge red flag that all is not right. As explained before, tariffs are a tool to address the problem. Deregulation, another issue, is also a tool the president is pursuing.

    And the really ridiculous thing is that the tariff is announced and as soon as it comes out there are “exceptions”….. um isn’t that what Obama did with Obamacare when it was obvious it wasn’t going to work? Exceptions. Ridiculous. China is just going to send their steel through Mexico. Laundered steel will be the norm.

    Tariffs are targeted by nature, and no it is not the same as what Obama did with the ACA. With regard to the “exceptions”, they are negotiation chips in future NAFTA deals, which laundered steel would be a violation of and treated as illegal. This seems a shallow argument.

    And NK is not a victory, history shows that. Trump gets no credit in my book for getting NK to the table for talks, many have done it before him and we all know the results of that. I’m highly skeptical of any success in that arena.

    And rightly so. I doubt you will find much disagreement here, as we are dealing with rocket man. In the mean time, sanctions will continue and military pressure will remain.

    Still, nothing ventured, nothing gained, and this is nothing like the nevertrumpers predictions (unsurprisingly as nevertrumpers predictions have an accuracy rate approaching zero) of Trump rushing us into war.

    I have more issues with die-hard Trumpsters. They violently defend every move Trump makes when for any other person it would be despicable behavior or actions.

    Violently? I think you are confused. It is the “residence” that have been violent. Perhaps the word you are looking for is “persistently”, or maybe even “passionately”. You do your argument no favors exaggerating the circumstances.

    ignoring educated advice.

    Facts not in evidence. Could just be the advice he is taking doesn’t match up with your advice.

    The blind defense of indefensible actions

    I think this is one of those oxymoron thinkers.

    TheBas (3bcea0)

  74. thingers, not thinkers…

    TheBas (3bcea0)

  75. Darn, “resistance”, not residence. Shoulda done more proofreading, apologies.

    TheBas (3bcea0)

  76. Marci @62:

    ….NK is not a victory, history shows that. Trump gets no credit in my book for getting NK to the table for talks, many have done it before him and we all know the results of that. I’m highly skeptical of any success in that arena.

    Well, the question is, should Trump get blsme for the talks.

    North Korea almost certainly is just biding its time, and they get immunity from criticism about human rights. Trump may deserve some credit for at least this happening, but he’s agreeing toio readily.

    If North Korea agreed to this they are running really scared, and look he’s taking their first offer. Too many people don’t see what it means.

    North Korea got scared off when Trump tweeted that his button works, implying that North Korea’s bombs don’t. I mean they work when tested in place, but delivery is another matter.

    It looked like Trump had, in his effort to get Kim to pay attention inadvertantly revealed a secret and now Kim Jong Un needs to have his scientists double and triple check their work.

    Kim is probably using some Chinese technology and maybe a few components but it’s his own plutonium.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  77. I also lack a college degree.

    In my favor though, I attended HS back when they still taught civics and were concerned with education rather than indoctrination. I bet most pre 1980 HS grads have more education than today’s bachelor degree college grads.

    TheBas (3bcea0)

  78. 75. TheBas (3bcea0) — 3/9/2018 @ 11:59 am

    75.“the US companies couldn’t produce the pipe to the government required standards. They did not have the capability. So Japan got the pipe bid. The US was producing sub-standard pipe.”

    As explained before, tariffs are a tool to address the problem.

    Not the right tool. Just one of the options in current law, and all of them are wrong.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  79. 71. Justice Kennedy hired law clkerks for next year. Unless health is reason, he wouldn’t retire now, although he knows he has to stick it out until at least 2121 if he does not now.

    He could retire effective upon the appoiintment fo a successor, as Earl Warren did, and theer wa sanotehr president by the time huis succesor was confirmed. If he did that he could expect to stay there for a few years more.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  80. Sammy, not “the” tool, but “a” tool.

    And yes it is a tool when regarding domestic steel production as a national security issue, not just an economic issue.

    TheBas (3bcea0)

  81. Marci is bringing it today….

    My issues with Trump are many but actually I have more issues with die-hard Trumpsters.

    Substitute Trump and Trumpsters with White Sox and White Sox fans and you have the story of my life as a South Side Cubs fan.

    WRT McCain, we now have a “minimum health standard” in terms of Thad Cochran retiring, so I think a double November election in AZ should be commenced, as in MS. If it got real bad for McCain soon, I say maintain that election for the remainder of the term and appoint Arpaio – with the understanding he drops out of the larger race – for the intervening months from say May to January.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  82. Marcie, tell your husband you not only deserve a spanking, but also to be sent to bed without supper, and so do you – DRJ, for encouraging Marcie’s delusions. And, remember, big girls don’t cry.

    ropelight (b14033)

  83. 82. TheBas (3bcea0) — 3/9/2018 @ 12:26 pm

    Sammy, not “the” tool, but “a” tool.

    And yes it is a tool when regarding domestic steel production as a national security issue, not just an economic issue.

    It’s not worth anything at all. The tariff isn’t all that great. The tariff is temporary. It’s not going to cause capital investments.

    A tariff might possibly prevent or delay an existing plant from closing. But the problem is, some things don’t exist or exist in large enough quantity. I thought the problem was worse with aluminum.

    But from a national security perspective Canada is almost as good as the United States, unless you expect some kind of sanctions are possible.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  84. RE; Justice Kennedy

    Anyway Dean heller is just trying to argue that a republican should be elected to teh Senate.

    Chances of thw republicans gaining in the Senate look good, all the while while chances of them losing controlof the House also look good. Five Dem Senate seats are in danger.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  85. It’s not worth anything at all. The tariff isn’t all that great. The tariff is temporary. It’s not going to cause capital investments.

    Oh really?

    In related news, the bonuses companies are handing out as a result of the tax overhaul are crumbs.

    And relying on Canada for potential wartime steel production? Really?

    TheBas (3bcea0)

  86. Substitute Trump and Trumpsters with White Sox and White Sox fans and you have the story of my life as a South Side Cubs fan.
    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb) — 3/9/2018 @ 12:27 pm

    Well we totally agree on the Cubs. Life-long Cubs fan here, long before it was in vogue. I grew up listening to the Cubs games on the radio with my dad back out in the hay field in the 60s and we even got to see a few games on TV in later years. Lived in the Chicago area for 3 years back in the 80s and would get a babysitter and sneak away to a game once or twice. In 1984 when they won the league title I had picked Cubs tickets at a company event as a door-prize and got razzed quite a bit about it (it was before the season started). Everyone thought I’d picked the wrong team by mistake. By the time my August tickets rolled around I had so many offers to buy them it was crazy. It was a great day.

    Marcie…… And, remember, big girls don’t cry.
    ropelight (b14033) — 3/9/2018 @ 12:35 pm

    Who you calling fat?
    😉

    Marci (98fec4)

  87. And here is your thoughtful, well reasoned, Weekend Update: with Emily Litella. [YouTube]

    papertiger (c8116c)

  88. Yes, happyfeet. Somewhere out there Comrade Ben is reading and seeing the same news we are and still drawing the wrong conclusions.

    Did Patrick finally flush Ben?

    Dave (445e97)

  89. Just for the record, in my opinion there is no room for violins in the comment section.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  90. “I was #NeverTrump back then, and I suppose I still am because I’ve never voted for him. And of course, I was foolish enough to think that if Trump was elected, he’d still continue tweeting the same way as always. Now I know better!

    But just because I’m a #NeverTrump cuck RINO traitor who hates America and whatnot, that doesn’t mean I’ve fallen prey to Trump Derangement Syndrome. Now that Trump is president, and now that he may very well enter into negotiations with North Korea, I’m trying to remain cautiously optimistic. As the old Vulcan proverb says, “Only Nixon could go to China.” Well, maybe only Trump can go to North Korea. Maybe it’ll work. I don’t know, and neither do you, and neither does anybody else. Everything I thought I knew about the world over the last couple of years has turned out to be wrong, so who knows?”

    https://pjmedia.com/trending/trump-can-make-peace-north-korea-thatll-great/

    harkin (8256c3)

  91. “They have made promises to denuclearize. They have made promises to stop nuclear and missile testing. We’re not going to have this meeting take place until we see concrete actions that match the words and the rhetoric of North Korea.”
    Chief Propaganda Mistress Sanders

    Never mind!

    Dave (445e97)

  92. A rethink of the brass section wouldn’t hurt any either.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  93. Hmm, “concrete actions that match the words and rhetoric of North Korea”…

    Their words and rhetoric have been pretty consistent: they’re keeping their missiles, they’re keeping their nukes, and they’re blowing us up if we try to stop them.

    Do we really want “concrete actions that match the words and rhetoric of North Korea”?

    Dave (445e97)

  94. Imagine if Kim Jong Un were to blow up San Francisco.

    I wonder if Kamala Harris would switch parties in the wake?

    papertiger (c8116c)

  95. Holy [Toosiefruit]!

    The Nasdaq composite advanced 1.8 percent to 7,560.81 and hit intraday and closing records, erasing the losses from last month’s correction. The Nasdaq 100, which is made up of the 100 largest companies in the Nasdaq composite, also reached a record high. Friday marked the first time since Jan. 26 that either index reached a record high.

    Shares of Facebook, Amazon, Netflix and Google all rose to help the indexes rise.

    The Dow Jones industrial average rose 440.53 points to close at 25,335.74, with Goldman Sachs among the biggest contributors of gains to the index. The 30-stock index also closed above its 50-day moving average, a key technical level.

    It’s almost like recent volatility were a coordinated contrivance designing to steer the President into rash actions.
    George W. would have fallen for it.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  96. @96 papertiger, what would Harris switch to? She’s already a communist. Besides, if Un blew up SF Harris would be with fellow leftists gerrymandering what was left onto a Leftist Superstate.

    Rev.Hoagie (1b0402)

  97. Without the voting population of SF to prop her up, Harris would be recalled before she could get the word gerrymander clear of her lip.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  98. Just dreaming. Kim Jong Un can’t even get a decent bucket of chicken, much less a missile all the way to San Francisco.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  99. The voting population? Oh, you mean the dead, the felons, the illegals and the non-citizen voting immigrants as well as the abused minorities and street people? You’ve got a point there.

    Rev.Hoagie (1b0402)

  100. #88, Marcie, touche.

    ropelight (59dc98)

  101. In my favor though, I attended HS back when they still taught civics and were concerned with education rather than indoctrination. I bet most pre 1980 HS grads have more education than today’s bachelor degree college grads.
    Oh, you were indoctrinated. Only it was with conservative values. Proof of how well you were indoctrinated is the fact that you don’t even think of this as being indoctrinated. All of us who went to school in the 60s and 70s were. Previous generations were open about it, and called it Americanization of immigrant population.

    Then came along multiculturalism and Americanism got knocked off its perch.

    Kishnevi (0dce2b)

  102. I was conscious of my heritage but I had some very good teacher in elementary as well as high school. They did not carry the constructivist template which actually arose in soviet union in the 70s

    narciso (d1f714)

  103. You are just wrong Kishnevi. Besides American history, which was about how the constitution came about and works without any partisanship, in my senior year I took calculus, chemistry, physics, English lit., electronics, and physical ed. Pretty tough to fit indoctrination into equations, Shakespeare, diodes, and tennis.

    TheBas (3bcea0)

  104. Its the view reflected in pink Floyd’s the wall, ironically though control is what’s for breakfast lunch and dinner.

    narciso (d1f714)

  105. @103 Kishnevi said: “Oh, you were indoctrinated. Only it was with conservative values.” I see what you’re saying but he wasn’t indoctrinated with “conservative values” he was indoctrinated with American Values. I figure Americans should be. Today they are indoctrinated with anti American values that extend to anti Western and anti Christian and Jewish values. At least that’s what I’ve observed with my grandsons and nieces etc. For one thing we were taught to respect America, not hate it. We started off the morning with a prayer followed by the Pledge of Allegiance. Both of which I believe have since been discovered to be unconstitutional, or something.

    Rev.Hoagie (1b0402)

  106. he was indoctrinated with American Values.

    Nope, still wrong. Especially since I spent grades 3-9 in Alberta, and learning reading, writing and arithmetic was no different there than it was in Wyoming.

    TheBas (3bcea0)

  107. Ok, it was a bit different. Canadians have this weird thing where they call the last letter in the alphabet “zed”.

    Indoctrination!

    TheBas (3bcea0)

  108. Was that prevalent in the UK as well, they refer to zed zed alpha in hitchhikers guide

    narciso (d1f714)

  109. Your indoctrination began in kindergarten, Bas. Same as mine…
    (I think Zed is actually a British thing.)

    Kishnevi (0dce2b)

  110. Yes, Canada s a british commonwealth. They spell some words differently than us like the British too.

    And we must be working with different definitions of indoctrination Kishnevi.

    in·doc·tri·na·tion
    [inˌdäktrəˈnāSHən]
    NOUN
    the process of teaching a person or group to accept a set of beliefs uncritically:

    I guess you could say learning how the ancient Egyptians built the pyramids are a belief, not a fact, but that’s not what I was talking about when I differentiated between schooling then and now.

    [rescued from spam filter — Stashiu3]

    TheBas (3bcea0)

  111. Speaking of spanking, Ted Cruz is on a spanking tour of cable news shows. First to cry uncle was Scarborough and then Chris Cuomo. Go Lion Ted!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  112. Uh-oh, My comment got moderated.

    Rescue me! Somebody!

    TheBas (3bcea0)

  113. ” 78. Trump may deserve some credit for at least this happening, but he’s agreeing too readily.
    … and look he’s taking their first offer.”

    Huh? This is Donald J. F’ing TRUMP we are talking about. Whenever in his entire life has he taken somebody’s first offer? Geesh, sometimes the Nevertrumpers seem like they are not just watching a differenct movie–they seem to be watching a ballet in a different universe.

    I mean, this is The Art of The Deal guy, right? And the NT’ers think he makes the first mistake the negotiating handbook warns about?

    fred-2 (ce04f3)

  114. 263,000 manufacturing jobs added since Trump won.

    Interesting stats from Carney in his piece on the Renaissance of U.S. Manufacturing over at Breitbart. The pre-Trump quotes from the experts are priceless. Real world proof that mainstream economists cannot build predictive models.

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/03/09/this-is-the-greatest-manufacturing-jobs-boom-in-twenty-years/

    Lenny (5ea732)

  115. I wonder how many Millennials would read the post title and wonder why the Donald chose Kim over Kylie.

    jim2 (456f28)

  116. 113
    Best thing is is to look for anything the spam filter bot might mistake for a cuss word, edit it out and try again.

    Kishnevi (0dce2b)

  117. 115
    ROTFL
    Breitbart chooses as the banner for that article a painting by a Mexican Marxist.

    Kishnevi (0dce2b)

  118. That’s known as “rubbing it in”

    Lenny (5ea732)

  119. Interesting stats from Carney in his piece on the Renaissance of U.S. Manufacturing over at Breitbart.

    This graph of the official data (from BLS) exposes the absurd cultist hype for what it is:

    https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/CES3000000001

    See if you can spot the “renaissance”, LOL.

    Oh, and according to Donald Trump, all government employment statistics are fiction anyway.

    Dave (445e97)

  120. I didn’t use any inappropriate language. I cut and pasted something that maybe had a format problem or something..

    Anyway, I’m much too lazy right now to try and recreate it.

    The moments past.

    TheBas (3bcea0)

  121. @124-

    Voters approved the high-speed rail project in a 2008 ballot proposition. But at the time the rail authority projected a $40 billion price tag, a 2028 completion date, and a $55 one-way Los Angeles to San Francisco fare.

    One year later, the rail authority said the project would actually cost $98.5 billion, the completion date would be 2033, and an L.A. to S.F. ticket would cost $95.

    In 2012, the projected cost went back down to just double the original estimate — $68 billion.

    TheBas (3bcea0)

  122. Btw what is the Bas short for?

    narciso (d1f714)

  123. “The disclosure about the higher costs comes nearly a decade after voters approved a $9-billion bond to build a bullet train system. “ from a la times article.

    kaf (bd613c)

  124. It’s a secret. Or maybe an enigma.

    TheBas (3bcea0)

  125. This graph of the official data (from BLS) exposes the absurd cultist hype for what it is:

    https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/CES3000000001

    See if you can spot the “renaissance”, LOL.

    Oh, and according to Donald Trump, all government employment statistics are fiction anyway.

    Dave (445e97) — 3/9/2018 @ 8:32 pm

    Wrong again, Davey me boy. Here are the BLS statistics. Top of page 3 for manufacturing. Time to get some remedial research training. Tired of losing yet?

    https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf

    Lenny (5ea732)

  126. ConDave on teh grift. Trump has another domicile: Mar-a-lame-o… 100 Square inches of ConDave skull, he found it empty and ready for occupancy.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  127. Wrong again, Davey me boy. Here are the BLS statistics. Top of page 3 for manufacturing. Time to get some remedial research training. Tired of losing yet?

    What I linked is “All employees, thousands, manufacturing, seasonally adjusted”.

    The number you quoted is the difference (i.e monthly change).

    My numbers:

    February: 12614 (thousand)
    January: 12583 (thousand)
    Difference: 31 (thousand)

    Your number, “at the top of page 3″ is … 31,000.

    You must feel pretty foolish, but it’s OK. Subtraction is hard.

    Dave (445e97)

  128. Keep looking for that “renaissance” though. It must be in there somewhere!

    Dave (445e97)

  129. Tritium – not fissionable, but sometimes used as a part of the fuel in thermonuclear bombs, and to “boost” (increase the yield) of fission weapons – does have a relatively short half-life of around 12 years. There are alternatives like Lithium Deuteride that are stable and relatively easy to make, though.

    Dave (1e7627) — 3/8/2018 @ 10:40 pm

    That’s what Big Night Sight wants you to believe, Dave.

    Pinandpuller (8b068a)

  130. I just like happyfeet’s name. It makes me smile. Happy Feet. I imagine dancing… in flip flops….

    Marci (98fec4) — 3/9/2018 @ 11:06 am

    Perhaps Mad Max was already taken.

    Pinandpuller (8b068a)

  131. Nope, still wrong. Especially since I spent grades 3-9 in Alberta, and learning reading, writing and arithmetic was no different there than it was in Wyoming.

    TheBas (3bcea0) — 3/9/2018 @ 7:44 pm

    They only threatened to teach us the Metric System. Other than that. Where were you when Mount Saint Helens blew? I remember the ash on cars.

    Pinandpuller (8b068a)

  132. Your numbers? BDS – Bureau of Dave Statistics.

    The BLS numbers:

    “Manufacturing added 31,000 jobs in February. Within the industry, employment rose in transportation equipment (+8,000), fabricated metal products (+6,000), machinery (+6,000), and primary metals (+4,000). Over the past year, manufacturing has added 224,000 jobs.”

    That does not include the 3 months from the election to one year ago.

    Reading comprehension is hard, take a remedial course.

    Lenny (5ea732)

  133. Reading comprehension is hard, take a remedial course.

    That seems unnecessary and excessive.

    It’s like stuffing his face in a snowbank, and then giving the bald spot a noogie while he’s still trapped, instead of the obligatory endzone dance/finger point.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  134. I was looking through audiobooks on iTunes. The Communist Manifesto is only $1.95. Trump should load it up on an iPod for Un.

    Pinandpuller (8b068a)

  135. He could get a serial killer to read it even. Might be appropriate:

    For 27 years prisoners at Vacaville have been recording books–best sellers, textbooks, mysteries, science fiction, Westerns, children’s books and cookbooks–on tape for blind men, women and children all over America.

    It is the oldest and largest projects of its kind in the nation.

    “Their visit here is so special for us. We get letters of thanks from our blind patrons, but they never come inside the prison to meet us,” said Edmund E. Kemper III, 38, the inmate who runs the program.

    Kemper, a confessed mass murderer, has read onto tape cassettes more books for the blind than any other prisoner. He has spent more than 5,000 hours in a booth before a microphone in the last 10 years and has more than four million feet of tape and several hundred books to his credit.

    Two large trophies saluting Kemper for his dedication to the program, presented by supporters outside the prison, are on display in the Volunteers prison office, which has eight recording booths, two monitor booths and a battery of sophisticated tape duplication equipment.

    “I can’t begin to tell you what this has meant to me, to be able to do something constructive for someone else, to be appreciated by so many people, the good feeling it gives me after what I have done,” said the 6-foot, 9-inch prisoner.

    Kemper is serving a life sentence for his 1973 conviction on eight counts of murder in a case that drew national attention. Kemper murdered and dismembered his mother, her best friend and six Santa Cruz-area women. He had previously been confined for five years at Atascadero State Hospital after he confessed to killing his grandparents when he was 15. He had been released from Atascadero when psychiatrists concluded that he was no longer dangerous. \

    LA Times

    Pinandpuller (8b068a)

  136. Calling him Un is like calling me Hiu3 Pinandpuller. Korean names are reversed, so for us it would be JongUn Kim. JongUn is a single name. The only reason for a space is because in the Korean written language those two syllables are grouped together, and Americans for some reason treat them as different and separate words. Un is not a middle name, it’s the second syllable of his given name. Kim is the family name. When written in English, older Koreans almost always capitalize the second syllable of their given name (ChanMi Cho, or Chan Mi Cho. Koreans would say Cho ChanMi or Cho Chan Mi)

    *Note: Example name at the end is completely made up and bears no relation to anyone with that name for real.

    Anyway, the family name of North Korea’s leader is Kim, not Un. 😉

    Stashiu3 (466cdf)

  137. The idea is that the Donald will meet with JongUn in a completely no negotiations happening whatso ever format. A getting to know each other session. An interview in other words.

    So… Here is a preview of the summit [YouTube] between Kim Jong Un and Donald Trump {with James Franco playing the part of Trump}.

    They seem to get on rather well theoretically.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  138. Stashiu3, I can’t speak for everyone but I refer to Ki as Un because it differentiates which Kim I’m talking about. My wife’s maiden name was Choi Kyesook. Now she’s June.

    Rev.Hoagie (1b0402)

  139. *refer to Kim*

    Rev.Hoagie (1b0402)

  140. Speaking of Trump living in ConDave’s head, Kemper was fond of taking them as trophies. So if Kemper had met ConDave, would that have possibly been the first RV? Kemper and ConDave, on the road again… Val-deri, val-dera
    Val-deri, val-dera
    Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha
    Ha

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  141. Every one of your posts about Trump is negative. Did you really want hillary?

    Jim (557eae)

  142. In her 2016 book The Confidence Game: Why We Fall for It . . . Every Time, Maria Konnikova devotes substantial space to the phenomenon of why con men especially relish conning other con men:”Con artists are often the best marks because they think themselves immune.” She explains:

    There’s an entire subset of cons, in fact, devoted to catching the master grifter at his own game, often perpetrated by others who feel he might have gotten too big for his boots. Con artists tend to be supremely confident — how can anyone beat me at my own game? — and that confidence is often their undoing.

    She gives numerous examples. It’s possible that in her next edition, Trump and Rocket Man will make an appearance. If so, will Trump’s “bigger button” mean that he’s the better con man?

    My hunch is, though, that they’ll never meet. The adult daycare minders have already effectively walked back Trump’s impulsive (and stupid) unconditional promise to meet, re-writing what the POTUS has publicly said to save him (and us) from his naivete. And my continuing greatest fear is that Trump will eventually explode, fire the daycare minders, and check himself out of his protective cocoon — in which event, we’ll likely be at war with Albania tomorrow, and Kirsten Dunst better get her Doritos bag.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  143. Or was it Tostitos? W/e.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  144. @ Jim (#148): Whoever you are, your two-sentence comment here confirms that you’re either new, and haven’t at all bothered to look at very many of the posts here, or you’re just another simpleminded liar. With about 10 seconds of googling this site, I could come up with a dozen examples to disprove your categorical, absurd proposition. Thanks for playing, though.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  145. So what is the alternative, beldar, if they fire off another volley of Ukrainian augmented hwasung boosters. That is the reality.

    narciso (d1f714)

  146. The BLS numbers:

    “Manufacturing added 31,000 jobs in February. Within the industry, employment rose in transportation equipment (+8,000), fabricated metal products (+6,000), machinery (+6,000), and primary metals (+4,000). Over the past year, manufacturing has added 224,000 jobs.”

    That does not include the 3 months from the election to one year ago.

    And 31,000 is the difference between the last data point of the graph I linked, and the one before. Are you really so dense that you think the numbers on the BLS website that I linked are somehow inconsistent with the BLS press release from the same day?

    As that graph shows, there is no “renaissance”, just the continuation of a gradual eight-year trend. A 31,000 change is barely above the statistical noise in a total of 12.6 million. It’s not even a quarter of 1%.

    Dave (445e97)

  147. @ narciso: I’d prefer an alternative in which instead of trying — futilely, naively, and counterproductively — to jawbone and con the Norks, the POTUS actually leads the American people into an understanding and profoundly sad-but-realistic assessment of reality.

    Many here, including our host, will reject this comparison, but: Between 9/11/01 and the commencement of the invasion of Iraq in 2003, George W. Bush actually led the American people, as evidenced by a bipartisan majority vote in both chambers of Congress, into a fully authorized showdown with Saddam. The consensus didn’t survive because it turned out that (a) Saddam mistakenly thought Dubya and the entire U.S. military were bluffing, and (b) Saddam was himself bluffing, not only the world but his own people and military leaders, about whether he had an active nukes program. And while Dubya’s proof (courtesy of Tommy Franks’ forces) that the U.S. hadn’t been bluffing was sufficient to persuade Kadafi, the Norks figured out the new landscape: The consequence of there being no Iraqi nukes was that Bush’s political capital, which he might arguably have been able to use to similarly rally the country to put an end to the Nork nuclear threat, had all evaporated.

    What Kim is actually seeing, from the walkback in the aftermath of Trump’s impulsive announcement that he’s willing to meet Kim, is Trump’s staff (whether one characterizes them as adult daycare minders or anything else) confirming that Trump can’t be taken seriously. The “that’s his problem” joke Trump told about dealing with a madman — the Mel Gibson as crazy-cop Martin Riggs in “Lethal Weapon” impersonation Trump’s trying to pull off — isn’t credible unless and until Trump fires all his staff and instructs the pilot of Air Force One to head for Pyongyang anyway. Obama pretended to be stern and Kim safely ignored him; Trump’s pretending to be aggressive and crazy and Kim will expect that he can safely ignore Trump too.

    I don’t think there’s any magic alternative to fix the problem of the North Korean nukes short of convincing the American people to authorize a credible promise of military intervention and regime change. The Norks might even misread that, as Saddam did. But they certainly aren’t going to be persuaded by anything short of that, and they’re tickled pink (or, I guess, Commie-red) to reprise the Lucy-and-the-football kabuki show for Trump the way they have for every prior American president, the last of whom they took seriously was Eisenhower.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  148. TR/DR version: The only conceivable solution to the Korean nukes problem requires some American POTUS to actually lead the country, credibly, to and if necessary beyond the brink of war as authorized by Congress. That’s the only thing that might make the Norks blink, but Trump’s doing the exact opposite.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  149. America’s joke military has had decades to prepare a military solution for North Korea and those losers have failed spectacularly (while spending trillions)

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  150. Trump similarly started going in the exact opposite direction of what must happen before the Iranians might blink, when he insisted even during the GOP primaries that he (alone among GOP candidates) wouldn’t tear up the Iran deal on day 1 of his presidency. And he hasn’t, nor done anything else but give the Iranians the time and space they want.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  151. #148, Jim, no, he didn’t actually want Hillary, he, like Beldar, wanted Cruz. But during the brusing GOP Primary fight their combined, and augmented, inability to sway Trump’s supporters here to their champion’s side so unsettled Patterico and offended Beldar that both succumbed to a virulent form of TDS leading to charter memberships in the #NeverTrump movement.

    Recovery has been slower than expected but there’s been sufficient progress to anticipate a favorable outcome, however long it takes.

    PS: The green jello seems to have a temporary soothing effect.

    ropelight (6eff8e)

  152. I ought not have presumed to have predicted our host’s reaction to my observation, and I therefore regret the “including our host” phrase in #154 above. He’s spoken for himself about the Iraq War at length and many times, and while that’s my guess, his views are sufficiently complex that I ought not have presumed to speak for him on this specific comparison.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  153. Iraq wee relatively a cakewalk, and yet relying of the oil for food network running interference, the contacts the mukharabat had made in Algeria Egypt, Indonesia it was a rather brutal war of attrition.

    North Korea has a sizable nuclear and chemical biological complement, a sizable land force, more inhospitable terrain and the support of russuaand china, so a desert storm of enduring freedom scenario is out.

    narciso (d1f714)

  154. I agree with your assessment Beldar, but there are three things I would add.

    1) Bush 41 and 43 both rallied support from the world as well forging a domestic political consensus. The principle that insane dictators shouldn’t be allowed to have nuclear ICBMs should not be ours alone. Internationally, the leadership of the world is a lot more favorable now – right-of-center governments in Britain and Germany, and a centrist government in France, compared to left-wing across the board in 2003. And unlike Saddam, in this case there is zero question about the reality of the weapons. Unfortunately Trump is too lazy, too arrogant and too toxic to form a coalition, just as he is too lazy, too ignorant and too toxic to lead the American people to political consensus on anything.

    2) Thanks in part to Bush’s diplomacy, Saddam had no allies of any consequence. The same is not true of North Korea. Both China and Russia are behind Kim, and the greatest negotiator of all time has utterly failed to change that. They don’t take Trump and his childish, ignorant bluster seriously, and why should they? Trump is a joke. While Kim is backed by the second and third most powerful militaries in the world, he’s going to continue to do whatever he pleases.

    3) South Korea presents a major complication. Even if America and the rest of the world were on-board, it’s not clear the South Koreans are prepared to countenance preemptive war.

    We need a shrewd, energetic and credible leader to have any chance of solving this problem. Even then, it would require Bismarckian statesmanship, Churchillian determination and Periclean powers of persuasion. Obviously Trump is, and has, none of the above.

    Dave (445e97)

  155. Only half the story is being told in syria

    https://mobile.twitter.com/Wilkmaster/status/972475963211730945

    The mop up operations in Algeria in the mid 90s were not clean, but they had to be done.

    narciso (d1f714)

  156. I blame Truman. He could have made Communism a radioactive memory but instead he … err, what exactly did he do?

    nk (dbc370)

  157. Well Something like turtledoves bombs away series may have evebtuatee.

    narciso (d1f714)

  158. Thanks Stashiu3 for retrieving comment 112.

    TheBas (3bcea0)

  159. Truman and MacArthur both screwed the pooch in losing a war that was (or should have been) won.

    MacArthur failed to anticipate or detect the movement of a quarter million Chinese troops into his front, and Truman tied our forces’ hands once the Chinese had surprised us.

    Dave (445e97)

  160. Patterico: “the big liar Trump did “A”, which is OK I guess, but it was probably an accident, an accident done by a cabinet member or congress, but the “A” Trump is getting credit for is probably a con or something and it looks good but it really just means Trump is a lying con man.

    Beldar: How dare anyone make such a categorical, absurd proposition that Patterico only writs negatively about Trump!! Why, he just praised Trump about “A”!!

    TheBas (3bcea0)

  161. eventuated, anyways it created this habit of military stalemates fought under UN auspice or local allies like Australia and thexPhillipines

    narciso (d1f714)

  162. I dunno what blog you guys are reading, but Patterico is waaaaaay too easy on Trump.

    Going the extra mile, I guess, out of a misguided sense of fairness, but Trump simply doesn’t deserve it.

    Dave (445e97)

  163. I have an easier question why have we gone except where we are supposed to be:
    https://babalublog.com/2018/03/10/shocking-castro-regime-has-over-200-spies-in-the-united-states/

    narciso (d1f714)

  164. @142 Stashiu3

    I think I was just following someone else’s lead, and I am prone to shorthand, but I do appreciate the breakdown.

    I’ve sort of informally studied Japanese and Mandarin but I’ve never really delved into Korean. I have been binge watching Lost FWIW.

    The interesting and frustrating thing about the tonal languages is they are so unmoored from anything I am familiar with. Speaking them is like an out of body experience. Spotting gender hints in a name seems nigh on impossible.

    Pinandpuller (b6f7f3)

  165. Stashiu3 and Rev Hoagie

    I think I was definitely borrowing your shorthand, Rev What does Jong mean? Or in this context. How many tones does Korean use?

    Also, with so many SK Christians and such do they have a concept of a Christian name?

    I referenced it before but I know this girl in passing. She’s engaged to a guy and it’s true love because his last name is Dong. I can’t wait to see the announcement.

    Pinandpuller (b6f7f3)

  166. The Korean War ain’t over Dave, last I checked.

    Pinandpuller (b6f7f3)

  167. narciso

    Good thing Bush got rid of the neutron bomb huh?

    Pinandpuller (b6f7f3)

  168. 170, so Rebenga x 200? Its on!!!

    urbanleftbehind (78338d)

  169. The exile community was very welcoming except for those who tried to dialogue with the regime there was no Rebenga, there was a long time hospital orderly that was a torturer but he was hidden for 30 years

    narciso (364166)

  170. Well that would have been a weird GG/Empty Nest/Nurses or Dexter episode.

    urbanleftbehind (78338d)

  171. @ Dave: Thanks for the reply. If allies can be enlisted, that’s great; Bush-41’s model remains the paradigm for that, and Japan and Australia are the obvious proximate powers who might could actually be useful in a coalition.

    Moreover, I do not at all presume — and I do not believe it is even a little bit true — that China or Russia would intervene militarily in a decapitating military strike or even an outright occupation. This isn’t 1950. They would protest, they’d look for bowls of our Wheaties to sh!t in to interfere with our plans, but they ain’t pulling any triggers. (That’s more likely in Korea, where we’re already killing Russians by the hundreds, isn’t it?)

    South Korea obvious is a longstanding ally whose views — including even its present naive government — must be listened to, and it would absolutely, positively be drawn into any military action, and would likewise inevitably be part of any post-regime change situation in North Korea. But no other country, including South Korea, has a veto over America’s right to protect itself. Kim isn’t making ICBMs to hit South Korea.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  172. Bah. Erratta #179, that ought to have read “more likely in Syria.”

    Beldar (fa637a)

  173. I don’t think there’s any magic alternative to fix the problem of the North Korean nukes short of convincing the American people to authorize a credible promise of military intervention and regime change.

    And that has to come BEFORE the summit. Trump should as for an AUMF beforehand to back his play, and make it clear what the result must be to avoid military action. Then, should Kim refuse to give up his weapons and allow intrusive inspections, the die is already cast.

    Waiting until after the fact combines a certainty of action with a lot of wishful thinking, and the result will be a nuclear breakout for North Korea and, shortly thereafter, nuclear proliferation throughout the first and second world.

    Which would be bad.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  174. narciso, the entire Nork military is hollow, literally ridden with parasites and starving. Other than border incidents, they haven’t had a fight since 1953. This military conflict would be unique, and it might indeed create large multiples of the civilian casualties that either Desert Storm or the Iraq War created because of the proximity of Seoul to the DMZ and the Norks’ artillery. But substantial costs in terms of human life may be already inevitable under every possible scenario. Yes, now effecting regime change in North Korea may end up with people dying in nuclear attacks for the first time anywhere in the world since 1945. But more will die, and in particular, the proportion of Americans who die, including on American soil, if we do nothing.

    I nevertheless expect that is what we will do, because, as I said above, I credit Trump with having almost none of the abilities it would take to accomplish anything beyond the delay that will make the ultimate casualty list longer and closer to home. I am exceedingly pessimistic about North Korea, moreso even than I am about Iran — which at least has not yet tested its bomb (to our knowledge).

    Beldar (fa637a)

  175. It’s really funny, for those of us whose memories extend back beyond November 2016, to see how Trump is finally trying to make good on a campaign promise that Barack Obama made — and was rightly ridiculed for by no less than Hillary Clinton — in 2008. Trumpkins seem unaware that for decades, the Norks have been asking and asking for a summit like the one he just promised — but had to walk back, because a summit suits their purposes entirely and ours not at all.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  176. One of Christian Bale’s lesser known works before he hit the Big Time… https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=953PkxFNiko

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  177. What #NeverTrump can’t seem to grasp is that it gets tedious hearing about contentions that I – for one – can’t recall being made here.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  178. Interesting read… from people who understand the decay all around and the need to push back… http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/hating-whitey-at-stanford/

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  179. Just to be clear, I don’t think Russia or China would overtly intervene militarily on Kim’s behalf. I meant that they will prop him up until the point that it becomes too costly. And at the moment the cost is virtually nil.

    However their support makes economic warfare and/or blockade on the Cuban Missile Crisis model hopeless and therefore nothing short of military action or a coup (or acquiescence in Nork ICBMs) can resolve the problem.

    At the same time, I don’t think China is any more willing to accept a unified and democratic Korea, allied with the US, on their border than they were in 1950. If our strategy is regime-change, China will have to be reconciled to the outcome, somehow.

    Dave (445e97)

  180. A post-regime change period in which (a) China shares in the occupation, preventing immediate reunification (which is China’s worst fear — a vibrant and free capitalist economy on its own border), and (b) the U.S., South Korea, Japan, and other interested parties help bear the costs and consequences to China of the refugee problems that will be created, temporarily, via regime change. The Chinese will know that is no more tenable in the long term than the split of Germany was, and that even short of reunification, a non-crazy North Korea will inevitably end up moving closer to South Korea. But Kim wants the nuclear weapons and ICBMs to deliver them with not just to threaten Tokyo or Seattle, but Beijing. Based on mutual interests, there’s a deal to be made with China here, in other words.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  181. To be clear: To negotiate such a deal with China, Trump would need the same pre-authorization from Congress that one hopes might actually cause Kim to blink.

    Right now, when it’s absolutely certain that Trump couldn’t even lead Congressional Republicans to all vote to authorize military force, Trump has no real leverage with either Kim or the Chinese. The sine qua non for any solution is an effective POTUS who displays genuine leadership on a national and international stage. (Which, again, is why I’m so damned pessimistic.)

    Beldar (fa637a)

  182. China would love nothing more than a unified and democratic Korea, Dave. They would love to have the North sucking the money and life-blood out of South Korea instead of China. They would love to no longer need to support militarily, economically, and in every other way the bankrupt dream-child of the Kim Dynasty. I could be wrong but that’s what my Korean wife, business partners and about 100 friends tell me. They also tell me they are afraid to death America will make peace and they will be the ones to pay the price. They would rather fight a war than have everything they’ve built over the last 70 years be handed over to unskilled, lazy communist pigs. But hey, my wife could be wrong but I won’t be the one to tell her.

    Rev.Hoagie (1b0402)

  183. China has traditionally used vassel states, Korea being a prime example, as go betweens for dealing with the western powers.

    In the 1800’s that’s how the Manchus saved face in trade deals. A slick western operator would trade with a Korean monarch as the middleman instead of dealing with China directly. That way the comparatively weak central authority of China can say “Those stupid running dog Koreans got took”, instead of admitting they got took.

    I can’t see the advantage in avoiding a talk with Kim Jong Un. Facts on the ground have changed dramatically.
    Kim Jong Il is no more. Kim Jong Un has new capabilities to menace our overseas assets in Guam and Okinawa.

    Why not talk to fat boy? We know he likes to strap on the feed bag.

    A bucket of chicken and a few solar panels later we might find out this guy wants to join the world of outdoor lighting and full bellies.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  184. Hoagie, if what you say is true, it seems entirely at odds with China’s actual behavior.

    I agree that – objectively – having peaceful and prosperous neighbors is sound long-term policy for any country, but if China wanted what you say, their policies seem designed to achieve the opposite outcome.

    Dave (445e97)

  185. I don’t have any problem with Trump going to North Korea. It’s him coming back where I have the problem.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  186. Dave, I’m just repeating what my wife and Korean friends blast at me all the time when I bring up unification, North Korea or China. They’re just regular people like you and me not politicians but they do believe China would just love to pawn off N. Korea and all it’s inherent problems for 70 years of communist/Kim dictatorship on somebody else especially the South and America. China is no longer second or third world and they don’t want a dead beat albatross around its neck dragging it down. Hey, they could be totally wrong for all I know.

    Rev.Hoagie (1b0402)

  187. Yes tiger the Koreans dont have fonder view of china. The soviet union was a little different, the point is Obama subscribed to the revisionist school of Bruce coming that sees the patriarch of the Kim dynasty, as great anti imperialist and victim of the west. Trump sees one must be willing to strike a swift sharp blow if needs must.

    The regime practices all sort of destabilizing activities from meth distribution to high end counterfeiting to hazardous materials proliferation as far west as Syria even probably Libya.

    narciso (d1f714)

  188. Its possible the play ruling circle, which is mote like that their supposed adversary the kupmintang across the straits have seen the experience with eat Germany, there is supposedly a certain condescension to those northerners in the south, I’m given to understand.

    narciso (d1f714)

  189. I don’t have any problem with Trump going to North Korea. It’s him coming back where I have the problem.

    I wish I’d said this!

    But what if Trump tells Kim:

    “You’re better off making a deal with me now, because my successor might be competent.”

    Dave (445e97)

  190. I’m amused that you guys seem more comfortable and respectful of a fat little communist dictator than our own president. I thought this is supposed to be basically a Republican and conservative blog.

    Rev.Hoagie (1b0402)

  191. Maybe had they known someone who because of circumstances couldn’t see his father again for 12 years till a third country egress has opened up.

    narciso (d1f714)

  192. I wish I’d said this!

    I stole it from Goldwater about Nixon and China.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  193. BTW, the summit will be held in China, not North Korea. For many reasons.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  194. Xi: “Kim wants to arrange a meeting. He says we can straighten any of our problems. I can arrange security. On my territory. Alright?”

    Kevin M (752a26)

  195. happyfeet

    Did you get Bunny Chow today?

    I made bison tacos tonight. They were really good.

    I started listening to this Mother May I Sleep With Podcast that breaks down Lifetime Movies. Host[ess?] Molly McAleer says that she makes bison burgers and puts them between gluten free English Muffins and sprinkles blue cheese crumbles on top. I need to see if Kroger stocks stuff like that. They have ground bison and ground lamb-I do know that.

    Pinandpuller (46299c)

  196. When did Kevin M join Al Queda?

    Here’s a pic. Kevin M out for a jog with no make up. [jpg]

    papertiger (c8116c)

  197. I stole it from Goldwater about Nixon and China.

    LOL!

    Dave (445e97)

  198. LOL!

    free mumia! Right Dave?

    papertiger (c8116c)

  199. Hey, pt, that’s a bit over the line, eh?

    Kevin M (752a26)

  200. Maybe the Al Queda bit.
    But you brought your ex-wife’s dog to bowling night.

    Alright. Mark it zero, you crazy [crikey dingo].

    papertiger (c8116c)

  201. Awwwww! Po’ widdle #NeverTrumper Patterico doesn’t like the taste of his crow! Watta shame!!!

    Go bulk up the charges against some poor slob who shoplifted a dollar’s worth of stuff, Patterico! That’s generally all you prosecuter/persecuter-types are good for anyway!

    Nostromo (f4747e)

  202. Turn on the wipers and clean off the road bugs.

    felipe (023cc9)

  203. I was never #NeverTrump. I was #NeverHillary.

    So, now that I have that out of the way I’m free to say this is insane.

    Two reasons pop up just off the top of my head. All this is going to do is prop up rocket man. No US president ever meets with an adversary unless and until all the details have been worked out, all the “I”s dotted and the “T”s crossed. This hasn’t been done.

    Second, in the case of the NORKs it’s an iron-clad rule that we do not negotiate separately from our allies. There is no daylight between us.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  204. Steve57 (0b1dac) — 3/11/2018 @ 2:50 pm

    That’s the way it’s always been done Steve57. Hasn’t worked out too well. I haven’t seen anyone mention one of the most important points however. South Korea is going to be adamantly against military force against the North. The leaders may pay lip service to it, but the population thinks of North Korea as their family which was forcibly separated. The leadership will find itself unemployed if they agree to any kind of force being initiated.

    That said, our own national security may force our hand. I don’t personally believe that the North Koreans have anything close to a working ICBM. The president of North Korea is delusional, having been indoctrinated himself to believe in his own omnipotence and invulnerability. It’s how he was brought up. The Chinese know this and I believe they understand that any ICBM capable of reaching the USA could also target China, which when dealing with a delusional personality, is a concrete possibility.

    They’ve let him bluff, but they won’t help him start anything that could hurt their own interests. This includes provoking the United States into armed action. I believe we’re in a much stronger position than we’ve been led to believe, by the North Koreans, the Chinese, our own hawks, and the media which loves to cry the sky is falling if it seems to hurt President Trump or make him seem weak. All of these entities make things more dangerous, not less. If we move against North Korea in the interest of “national security,” it’s really because of politics, not any immediate danger to our country.

    Just my own take. Others may disagree.

    Stashiu3 (466cdf)

  205. Steve,

    I see this as theater. Trump needs to be seen to reach out the olive branch as publicly as possible. We have some things we need (no nukes, no ICBMs, rigorous inspections), but we’d be happy to get them without war.

    But we WILL get them, one way or the other. Give peace a chance. Every chance. The tell the generals to begin.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  206. No US president ever meets with an adversary unless and until all the details have been worked out, all the “I”s dotted and the “T”s crossed. This hasn’t been done.

    This is untrue. Reagan and Gorbachev at Reykjavik had no such agenda. They had a long and frank discussion about wants, needs and possibilities. Reagan offered the destruction of all ICBMs, but wanted to keep Star Wars as insurance. Gorbachev balked. They left without any agreement, but with a much greater understanding of the other.

    A couple of years later they signed a treaty drastically cutting nuclear arms. It has been said that the Cold War ended at Reykjavik, but without any preconditions or set agenda.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  207. The irony was that the media treated Reykjavik as a failure — that boob Reagan didn’t get an agreement; doesn’t know what he’s doing — yet it turned out to be a magnificent success.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  208. Stashiu@212

    Presumably the fact that SKorea would get the brunt of whatever fire and fury Kim actually has would make them hesitant to agree to actual force.

    Kishnevi (e93d54)

  209. True, kish like I say the issues weren’t easy in 94, one they are much more complicated with the fruits of yong Byon and the successor facilities.

    narciso (d1f714)

  210. Kishnevi (e93d54) — 3/11/2018 @ 7:00 pm

    My understanding, from family, friends, and many, many downloads from news shows and popular culture (my wife watches every day) is that South Korea, even most of Seoul, would be willing to take significant damage if it meant true reunification. What “significant” means is different to everyone there, just like here, but getting the family back together is worth a lot to them.

    If President Trump can get China and Russia on board though, due to them finally considering Kim too disturbed to trust any further, there is a chance for just that. I doubt it would take more than Kim deciding to “spank” his sponsors with some kind of incident. He really believes himself both capable and justified in doing things like that, such as when he killed his relatives both in government and outside of government. Since he is too inept to do it without leaving traces, he would publicize it as he has in the past and call it a warning. This is the kind of thing he does without approval of his sponsors. It’s not too much of a stretch to see him doing it against them at some point out of an inflated sense of his own importance.

    My point is, we won’t know the tipping point for Russia and China until it’s reached. If we get the go-ahead, we can stage enough north of Seoul to just roll right over anything Kim currently has with essentially no damage at all south of the DMZ. But if reunification is the goal, most South Koreans would then accept military action and significant (that word again) cost in damage and money. They really, really want North and South together again under the South’s system.

    Stashiu3 (466cdf)

  211. It’s very possible, he is the unglamorous real life counterpart of col moon from the brosnan films

    narciso (d1f714)

  212. I’m less optimistic, Stashiu. Korea us a very useful pawn for China to use against us.

    Kishnevi (9dfc8c)

  213. much like fidel was against us for about 30 years, but Fidel has a different mindset as in the missile crisis.

    narciso (d1f714)

  214. we can stage enough north of Seoul to just roll right over anything Kim currently has with essentially no damage at all south of the DMZ. But if reunification is the goal, most South Koreans would then accept military action and significant (that word again) cost in damage and money. They really, really want North and South together again under the South’s system.

    We took apart Saddam’s armed forces, twice. There was a great deal of hand-wringing about how many casualties we would endure that never came to pass, at least not during the war part. And that was against an army what wasn’t eating their blankets for food.

    In Korea, after the event, we ought to have the South Koreans picking up the pieces with our help and the Chinese preventing things from spreading.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  215. I’m less optimistic, Stashiu. Korea us a very useful pawn for China to use against us.

    Diminishing returns. Kim might not be able to hit a US city with an H-bomb, but he effing can’t miss China.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  216. The problem in NK will be the picking up after. My real worry is they will use a nuke, at which point things are no longer strictly military. But waiting won’t help that.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  217. We took apart Saddam’s armed forces, twice. There was a great deal of hand-wringing about how many casualties we would endure that never came to pass, at least not during the war part. And that was against an army what wasn’t eating their blankets for food.

    That’s an optimistic take on things. I hope you’re right, and it may be that the Norks all secretly hate their government and pine for “democracy, whiskey and sexy!”, but the Kim dynasty has achieved a level of psychological control over the population that Saddam could have only dreamed of.

    If all of Saddam’s troops had fought tenaciously, he still would have lost but casualties on our side would have been higher, and on his side, astronomical. Fortunately, all but a few elite units surrendered at the first opportunity. What if the Norks fight to the last man like Japanese on Tarawa, Iwo Jima and Okinawa?

    Another difference – Saddam was an idiot, but the jury is still out on Kim and friends. Not once, but twice, Saddam sat there and let us build up an overwhelming force, stockpile supplies, set-up an impenetrable air defense, park multiple carrier task forces off-shore, train, collect intelligence, etc. before dropping the hammer on him at a time our choosing. In 2003, he probably didn’t have a choice, but in 1991 he should have kept going and seized all the ports and airfields we eventually used to build up.

    If Kim is determined to go out fighting, I think he’d do best not to sit there and let us build up for 6 – 8 months. Of course, once he fires the first shot, his fate is ultimately sealed no matter what he does, but he will make a better fight of it by rejecting Saddam’s brilliant “sit on my ass and let you build up until you’re ready” strategy.

    Dave (445e97)

  218. but in 1991 he should have kept going

    should say “…in 1990…”

    Dave (445e97)

  219. It wouldn’t take 6 to 8 months.
    Camp Butler, Okinawa, Japan is home for the 3rd Marine Division, the 1st Marine Aircraft Wing, and the 3rd Marine Logistics Group, which combine to form the III Marine Expeditionary Force [Ooorah], and that’s a can of [culo gritando] you don’t want to open.

    They can go right now.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  220. Recall that throughout the air war that preceded the ground invasion of Kuwait and Iraq in Desert Shield & Desert Storm, Saddam fired off SCUD missiles at Israel and Saudi Arabia. He was desperate to draw Israel into the fighting in hopes that would dissolve Bush-41’s Coalition of the Willing, which included (though it’s hard to believe today) temporary and limited-purpose allies like Syria. The Israeli government and people performed magnificently in their endurance and self-restraint, with the public basically acquitting itself with the same glory as the Brits in the Blitz and, later, with the V-1s and V-2s. All of those terror campaigns went on for weeks.

    I don’t know how clever our guys and the South Koreans have been in gathering intelligence that would permit a first-wave preemptive strike on all those artillery caves. I’m guessing they know a lot more than they tell. Moreover, American counterbattery fires and technology has become mind-bogglingly good. Between that expertise and technology, and the fact that the entire target zone is on a peninsula that our carriers can stream along either side of at will, with vastly easier proximity than for the carrier operations we’ve been running for decades now in the Middle East, plus God-knows-what kinds of loitering drones with precision munitions … Well, all we can say is that without a ton of knowledge about both sides that none of us commenting here has any actual access to, none of us can do more than make wild guesses about the kinds of casualties the Norks could inflict.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  221. *steam alongside (streaming the flag as they do)

    Beldar (fa637a)

  222. I think the real question is, what would China do if we attacked? A repeat if the first war? Excuse me, police action.

    the Bas (3bcea0)


  223. 232.I think the real question is, what would China do if we attacked? A repeat if the first war? Excuse me, police action.


    The first war, excuse me, police action was a combined effort of the UN. Sixteen countries sent troops and 41 sent equipment. The Red Chinese fought on the side of the North and the Soviet Union sent equipment. The soviet Union no longer exists. Red China is now Capitalist China and would love to be rid of a dependent state that costs them billions a year. If you were involved with a Trillion in trade with one country while losing 200 billion to another whose side would you be on?

    Several Koreans I’ve talked to on the subject seem to think the Chinese would create an “incident” which would allow them to disown the North and Rocket Man. BTW, none of them believe he has “the bomb”. They think the Chinese won’t allow him to because they could be hit by it. They think it’s all BS.

    Again, these are the opinions of regular people shaped by their experiences and prejudices.

    Rev.Hoagie (1b0402)

  224. Bye-Bye Rex. Trump fires Tillerson. Pompeo to replace. Haspel to head CIA. Stormy sees…

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  225. Christ, Tillerson landed at 4 AM EDT from overseas and gets welcomed w/a pinkslip. Stormy must have a helluva video file on our Captain.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  226. taking out the trash good job Mr, President

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  227. oops Mr. President i mean

    happyfeet (28a91b)


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