Patterico's Pontifications

3/2/2018

LISTEN UP, TRUMP: Here’s Why Your Tariffs Suck and Trade Deficits Are Good

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 10:00 am



I’m not sure if we ever had Infrastructure Week, but I guess this week is Tariff Week. Here is the thinking of the Economic Genius in Chief:

Oh my God he is such an idiot.

I find it impossible to talk about “protectionism” without discussing Frédéric Bastiat. What are we “protecting” people from when we impose steel tariffs? Inexpensive steel, that’s what. You’re “protected” from having the option of buying the least expensive product. In that sense, it is quite like being “protected” from the free light offered by the sun, which is why the candlemakers in Bastiat’s famous petition sought a law to block out the sun, so that their candles would be more valuable:

We are suffering from the ruinous competition of a rival who apparently works under conditions so far superior to our own for the production of light that he is flooding the domestic market with it at an incredibly low price; for the moment he appears, our sales cease, all the consumers turn to him, and a branch of American industry whose ramifications are innumerable is all at once reduced to complete stagnation. This rival, which is none other than the sun, is waging war on us so mercilessly we suspect he is being stirred up against us by perfidious Albion (excellent diplomacy nowadays!), particularly because he has for that haughty island a respect that he does not show for us.

We ask you to be so good as to pass a law requiring the closing of all windows, dormers, skylights, inside and outside shutters, curtains, casements, bull’s-eyes, deadlights, and blinds — in short, all openings, holes, chinks, and fissures through which the light of the sun is wont to enter houses, to the detriment of the fair industries with which, we are proud to say, we have endowed the country, a country that cannot, without betraying ingratitude, abandon us today to so unequal a combat.

Let’s talk real-life specifics. Some of the problems that 25% steel tariffs will cause include massive price increases — on everything from cars to drinks that come in a can — and retaliatory tariffs from other countries. Our export market will be devastated. And you can kiss 3% growth goodbye. That will be a distant memory.

Everyone thinks of the stock market crash when they think of the Great Depression, but the Smoot-Hawley tariffs played an underappreciated but important role in turning what could have been a mere recession into a years-long depression. (FDR’s alphabet soup sealed the deal.) Retaliation by other countries destroys our exports. At the beginning of the Depression, the collapse of agricultural and auto exports fueled bank failures and monetary meltdown.

Susan Wright already covered Ben Sasse’s excellent observation that tariffs are actually “a massive tax increase on American families.” Sasse is absolutely right: “Protectionism is weak, not strong.” And stuff like this usually comes from leftists. (Susan also talked about Smoot-Hawley as well, but it can’t hurt to reinforce how dangerous this policy is. Please read her post, which complements this post nicely.)

The structural issue here is that presidents have far too much authority to unilaterally impose tariffs, and when you have a President as colossally ignorant as Trump, that could be disastrous. Mike Lee is trying to do something about it. Support him.

Even the much-maligned “trade deficit” is actually a good thing, not a bad thing. If you’re ignorant (like Trump), you hear the word “deficit” and assume that it must be somehow bad. The matter should have been put to rest with Adam Smith’s book “The Wealth of Nations.” Smith proclaimed: “Nothing can be more absurd than this whole doctrine of the balance of trade.” As financial writer Simon Constable said, “a big trade deficit shows that you got more for your exports than did the other country.” Or, as Oklahoma Republican Senator James Lankford has explained:

For starters, a powerful economy such as ours often runs a trade deficit because of the immense buying power of its people. Mexico’s average net per capita income is roughly $13,000, while the average U.S. household brings in more than $41,000 each year. Americans have a far greater capacity to buy goods than do consumers in Mexico. It should come as no surprise that we do exactly that.

. . . .

It should be an encouraging sign that we are by far the world’s largest receiver of foreign direct investment. Our trade deficit means, in part, that U.S. companies are considered to be a better investment than companies in other countries. More investment in American businesses means more jobs and higher wages for American workers.

I run a trade deficit with Costco. I buy far more things from Costco (lots) than Costco buys from me (nothing). Does that mean that I lose when I buy inexpensive goods from Costco, because I am buying more from them than they buy from me? Of course not! As Adam Smith said: “[T]hat trade which, without force or constraint, is naturally and regularly carried on between any two places, is always advantageous, though not always equally so, to both.” I choose to spend money at Costco because they have high-quality products and fresh food at very low prices. I win when I shop at Costco — despite my massive trade deficit with that company.

It is pure ignorance to believe that this is some kind of battle with other countries and that we “win” when we deprive our citizens of the choice to purchase the most inexpensive goods produced in the world. This absurd notion was demolished by Adam Smith centuries ago — but it still keeps raising its ugly head, and the uninformed mob salivates every time some idiot proposal like this is floated.

This policy is a disaster. It must be reversed.

273 Responses to “LISTEN UP, TRUMP: Here’s Why Your Tariffs Suck and Trade Deficits Are Good”

  1. The Wall Street Journal had a lead editorial on this today.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/trumps-tariff-folly-1519950205

    …“We have with us the biggest steel companies in the United States. They used to be a lot bigger, but they’re going to be a lot bigger again,” Mr. Trump declared in a meeting Thursday at the White House with steel and aluminum executives.

    No, they won’t. The immediate impact will be to make the U.S. an island of high-priced steel and aluminum….Mr. Trump seems not to understand that steel-using industries in the U.S. employ some 6.5 million Americans, while steel makers employ about 140,000. Transportation industries, including aircraft and autos, account for about 40% of domestic steel consumption, followed by packaging with 20% and building construction with 15%. All will have to pay higher prices, making them less competitive globally and in the U.S.

    Instead of importing steel to make goods in America, many companies will simply import the finished product made from cheaper steel or aluminum abroad….

    It could have been worse.

    He could have put in quotas.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  2. I’m generally sympathetic.

    But here’s where the issue becomes a problem for me.

    A trade deficit one direction equals a currency deficit the other direction.

    We export hard currency to countries like China, which then turn around and buy assets in the US with that currency. Real estate, natural resources, patented technology, mature businesses, dynamic growth businesses, cutting edge technologies, etc.

    All so that we can have cheaper consumer goods which China can provide because so much of their industry is government owned, allowing them to keep their labor costs at rock bottom.

    What happens when we have nothing left to sell, and they own 75% of the domestic hotel industry, and 90% of domestic airlines — and then proceed to ratchet up prices when they have market dominance?

    There are enormous cost barriers to entrance into many markets, and the ability of a state-owned business enterprise to artificially depress markets in order to exclude competition is as anti-consumer as things can be.

    Economic theory is fine and simple when its confined to a classroom.

    But when you real world adversaries who are engaged in economic warfare — and make not mistake about China’s intentions — you are only shipping them “ammo” when you are shipping them cash.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  3. this is very dogmatic and conventional inside-the-box thinking

    let’s just wait and see what happens why don’t we

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  4. The excuse for this wa snational security. The Wall Street Journal argues:

    The national security threat from foreign steel is preposterous because China supplies only 2.2% of U.S. imports and Russia 8.7%. But the tariffs will whack that menace to world peace known as Canada, which supplies 16%. South Korea, which Mr. Trump needs for his strategy against North Korea, supplies 10%, Brazil 13% and Mexico 9%.

    Oh, and Canada buys more American steel than any other country, accounting for 50% of U.S. steel exports.

    China may supply so little because it is said to be poor quality.

    What I think is, if you really think it is important to maintain a larger steel production base in the United States, the way to do it is not with quotas on imports, or with tariffs (better than quaotas because this at least leave buyers a fail safe way to get steel) but with subsidizing the cost of production, or the United States government paying extra to buy steel. .

    That would require an Act of Congress and actually spending U.S. government money. But it would be much more efficient, and would cost the people of the United States less.

    It might not even violate some trade treaties so long as steel was not exported at a cheaper price.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  5. I win when I shop at Costco — despite my massive trade deficit with that company.

    But it’s unfair to the companies who can’t compete with Costco’s prices. Duh.

    Dave (445e97)

  6. Patterico, you are absolutely correct that this policy idea is spectacularly idiotic.

    Still and all, whatever influence you may have had, and I think you had a great deal, got squandered when you fired your insult cannon so early and so often.

    Even now, perhaps calling the policy idiotic might be more persuasive than calling Trump an idiot.

    Unless of course you have often achieved great success in court by calling a judge an idiot when he floated an idiotic idea during argument. Have you ever done that? Called a judge an idiot, I mean. Of course you have not. Why not?

    Fred Z (05d938)

  7. What happens when we have nothing left to sell, and they own 75% of the domestic hotel industry, and 90% of domestic airlines — and then proceed to ratchet up prices when they have market dominance?

    Well, the assets would still be located here and thus subject to our unbridled regulatory industry, so China is limited in how much they can screw with us in that regards.

    JVW (42615e)

  8. Even now, perhaps calling the policy idiotic might be more persuasive than calling Trump an idiot.

    But Trump is an idiot.

    Dave (445e97)

  9. He would do better not to allow the deduction or amortization of overseas capital expenses from income taxable in the U.S..

    nk (dbc370)

  10. if we needed canadian steel to do war on somebody can we really count on pussyhat canada to supply it?

    that’s not something we can take for granted at all

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  11. For example, if Hershey opens a factory in Mexico, it gets taxed on the profit from the candy it sells here without being able to deduct, amortize or depreciate the cost of the move and the facilities in Mexico. It can get Mexico to pay for those.

    nk (dbc370)

  12. Our Captain has been known to cut a tow line and lose a strawberry or two but this is way off course, even for him. Look for the head-fake… and wait to see if Mueller drops another shoe in a day or two.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  13. What happens when we have nothing left to sell, and they own 75% of the domestic hotel industry, and 90% of domestic airlines — and then proceed to ratchet up prices when they have market dominance?

    I remember the protectionist nightmare scenario in the 1980s was that the Japanese were going to buy everything and take over the country.

    How did that work out?

    Dave (445e97)

  14. shipwreck:

    “A trade deficit one direction equals a currency deficit the other direction.

    We export hard currency to countries like China, which then turn around and buy assets in the US with that currency. Real estate, natural resources, patented technology, mature businesses, dynamic growth businesses, cutting edge technologies, etc.”

    So now you want to prohibit people from selling their property to foreigners? How about if we start with yours? Sorry shipwreck, but if Chinese citizen wants a second home in the USA and offers you a very good price for yours, tough titty, no sale. As for cutting edge technologies, they don’t belong to you, they belong to whoever created them. Why should those people not realize the best sale price they can?

    What if foreigners do the same thing? Because, big shock, Americans are far and way, by orders of magnitude, the largest owners of foreign property in the world.

    The foreigners also hold on to an awful lot of the money you send them and the result of that is that you get the imports for free. You get Samsung smart phones, they get paper which they can only redeem by buying your stuff.

    Finally, what do you think foreigners will use to buy American exports? The USA is still one of the largest exporters in the world.

    Fred Z (05d938)

  15. @13. I remember the protectionist nightmare scenario in the 1980s was that the Japanese were going to buy everything and take over the country.

    Before that it was Arabs.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  16. if we needed canadian steel to do war on somebody can we really count on pussyhat canada to supply it?

    that’s not something we can take for granted at all

    We can send our Womens Olympic Hockey Team to kick their butts, if we have to.

    Dave (445e97)

  17. Patterico is not speaking to Trump. he’s speaking to everybody else. Of course, that’s still an ad hominem, but that’s not really his main point.

    It is a way of expressing how dumb this idea is. Maybe he has to say it because this kind of thinking is actually par for the course in Washington. So much of the argument made against this is that there will retaliation, rather than this doesn’t make sense in the first place. And the truth is, the retaliation doesn’t make sense for those other countries, either, except as a form of crony capitalism.

    When Patterico says “Oh my God he is such an idiot.” I think he means it’s so dumb, that you really should have to be an idiot to believe this makes sense as something that is good for the public in general. The problem is not so many people have folllowed the reasoning.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  18. Look for the head-fake…

    Yup. I’m looking for Chinese “investors” to buy green cards from the Kushner family at $1 million per.

    nk (dbc370)

  19. Yup. I’m looking for Chinese “investors” to buy green cards from the Kushner family at $1 million per.

    Maybe some new tax breaks for Ivanka’s sweatshops in Shenzen, too.

    Dave (445e97)

  20. Methinks Trump is an old time Republican, in the tradition of silent Cal.

    The Grand Old Party (GOP) has changed tremendously since its founding in the mid-19th century in Ripon, Wisconsin. There are few issues on which the GOP has evolved more than trade policy. Today a solid majority of Republicans are supporters of free trade. This was not the case for most of the GOP’s history. In fact the principle of protectionism was a sacred pillar of the Republican Party. This philosophy was carried over from the Federalist and Whig economic programs of Alexander Hamilton and Henry Clay. Abraham Lincoln, the first Republican elected president, championed a protective tariff. A tariff was used both for revenues and to protect the American economy from Europe. […]

    This philosophy also consisted of a commitment to sound money as exemplified by the gold standard, low levels of taxation and regulation, balanced budgets, and a commitment to property rights and economic liberty. These principles along with the protective tariff defined the political economy of the Republican Party. The doctrine of protectionism was not just putting “America first,” but also protecting the entire economy and labor by preserving manufacturing and solid wages for workers. […]

    Coolidge noted was the “application of his principle of a protective tariff, which furnished the initial opportunity for laying down of the greatest industries of America and the development of her entire resources.”[5] Coolidge, just as McKinley argued, that protectionism benefited not just business, but the farmer and laborer as well. “Cheap goods meant cheap men,” stated Coolidge. […]

    The American first trade policy of protectionism through tariffs was not only a constitutional way of protecting national sovereignty, but also putting the economic health of the nation first. The policy of protectionism was often debated within Republican circles, but it was a policy that many took seriously as a key component to an overall successful economic program.

    As Robert Lighthizer, who served as a trade representative in President Ronald Reagan’s administration wrote:

    “Conservative statesman from Alexander Hamilton to Ronald Reagan sometimes supported protectionism and at other times they leaned toward lowering barriers. But they always understood that trade policy was merely a tool for building a strong and independent country with a prosperous middle class.”

    Just thought you might be interested in hearing the other side.

    TheBas (3bcea0)

  21. let’s set aside the incentives these policies create for foreign investment

    and let’s talk about how the left hates domestic industries like steel and also the aluminum because they’re very very energy, capital, and labor intensive industries

    they don’t want us trying to compete in these industries

    the left’s policies are all targeted towards raising costs on the american economy – this underlies every policy proposal they make from health care to those attendant to the global warming hoax

    they want to raise the cost of energy

    they want to raise the cost of labor

    they want to raise the cost of doing business (obscene and promiscuous regulations)

    the more invested america becomes in basic industries, the greater constituency america will have with an interest in opposing the prosperity-raping cost-increasing policies of the left

    this what our president understands that eludes harvardtrash Ben Sasse

    he’s President Donald Trump

    and he loves this country very very much

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  22. oopers this *is* what our president understands that eludes harvardtrash Ben Sasse i mean

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  23. Yeah, Trump and Calvin Coolidge – you’d need DNA samples to tell them apart.

    Dave (445e97)

  24. Foreign nations dump their heavily subsidized steel in our markets to the delight of buyers who gladly pay less than US producers charge. Consequently, over time our domestic capacity to produce steel atrophies to the point we become more and more dependent on imported steel. Such vulnerabilities are then subject to exploitation similar to the aggressive. preditory business practices characteristic of monopolies.

    ropelight (c051a9)

  25. Are conservatives saying protectionism is a good thing, as long as it’s arbitrary and capricious?

    You’re a fickle bunch.

    Ben burn (abbb2c)

  26. Is this the all- American pipeline steel promise gone to seed from neglect?

    Ben burn (abbb2c)

  27. 24. That’s the question.

    But there isn’t even an oil monopoly any more.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  28. Yes the tariff was a mainstay of revenue till the income tax was introduced, on A very limited measure.

    One did notice that India has a 40% tariff on Canadian peas??
    That is now 60% after zoolanders visit

    narciso (d1f714)

  29. Just make your own steel. Bing bong so simple.

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  30. India’s doing a lot of work rethinking the way they make steel

    the idea is to move away from coking coal as an input towards a process that utilizes the gasification of lower-grade more plentiful coals

    i like peas a lot

    i make mushy peas a lot and i make a pesto out of peas spinach and walnuts sometimes (served cold this doubles as fauxcamole if I have a cheat day and can have some corn chips)

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  31. furthermore, i got these little salad dressing cups from glad (pretty sure i paid less than that though – amazon’s so sketchy)

    i use them for portion control and I fill them half n half with curried or ginger peas and mashed potato then stick them in the freezer

    it’s not an every day thing but when i need some carbs to thicken something or just cause maybe i feel like it’s just time to have a carb i throw a cup in with maybe some chicken or greens i’m braising

    the idea is to use carbs more like a condiment than a mainstay of your meal

    that’s why these trade policies are so good, because they help you understand that the tariffs are no different than anything else that raises costs, and the presence of the tariffs serves as a catalyst for a re-examination of the cost structure of the targeted sector

    it’s way past time we started looking at failmerica’s waning prosperity through a cost lens

    peas are also super good in pot pie

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  32. Trump talks about grabbing guns, and his supporters make excuses for him.
    Trump proposes tariffs, and his supporters make excuses for him.

    Is there anything Trump could do that his supporters wouldn’t find excuses for?

    Chuck Bartowski (bc1c71)

  33. i hope to God we never have to find out Mr. Bartowski

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  34. 24. ropelight (c051a9) — 3/2/2018 @ 11:09 am

    Foreign nations dump their heavily subsidized steel

    heavily suibsidized because at some poiint from approximately the 1930s to the 1950s this was treated by some countries, as the key to industrialization and development.

    n our markets to the delight of buyers who gladly pay less than US producers charge. Consequently, over time our domestic capacity to produce steel atrophies to the point we become more and more dependent on imported steel.

    I thought that happen3d because the United Steelworkers bargained their members out of a job.

    It’s not a monopoly though because theer are many supppliers.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  35. @ shipwreckedcrew, #2:

    [WARNING: LONG COMMENT. DANGER, WILL ROBINSON!]

    We export hard currency to countries like China, which then turn around and buy assets in the US with that currency. Real estate, natural resources, patented technology, mature businesses, dynamic growth businesses, cutting edge technologies, etc.

    Yes, this is true. And a good thing for our economy. Because the former owners of what China bought can use the money to develop real estate, discover more natural resources, create and patent new technologies, grow new businesses, etc. Much of what China has bought here will stay here, because it either can’t be moved (like real estate) or it is not cost-effective to move — and even the money from what is shipped overseas can be used to create new things.

    All so that we can have cheaper consumer goods which China can provide because so much of their industry is government owned, allowing them to keep their labor costs at rock bottom.

    Not really…that’s one positive consequence, but it’s not “all” there is to the situation. Again, many of those assets stay here, and they’ll still employ American workers. As will the new businesses, technologies, real estate projects, etc., that are started with the money our countrymen received from selling. So it’s a boon for laborers, and a boon for businessmen, as well as a boon for consumers. That’s the beautiful thing about capitalism — when it’s done right, everyone wins.

    What happens when we have nothing left to sell, and they own 75% of the domestic hotel industry, and 90% of domestic airlines — and then proceed to ratchet up prices when they have market dominance?

    I’m having flashbacks to my childhood, when everyone said the same thing about the Japanese. Fast-forward a few decades, and we see how that turned out…

    Seriously, this comment is predicated on several…let’s say, questionable…assumptions:

    1) “What happens when we have nothing left to sell?” implies that the market pie is a fixed one. We sell off little slivers of our piece, and then one day we wake up and we find that the Chinese own the whole pie. But as my earlier responses imply, the pie grows over time. If we continue to innovate, there will always be something left to sell. A whole lot of somethings, in fact.

    2) You assume that the Chinese can simply buy most major competitors in a given market and then dictate prices in that market. You ignore legal safeguards against monopolies, as well as existing anti-trust legislation.

    3) You further assume that no Americans would ever start competing businesses, and market them as the “all-American” alternative to Chinese-owned businesses. If the Chinese market strategy is as all-pervasive and massively successful as you believe it could be…a belief I would argue against for myriad practical reasons, but let’s just stipulate that for argument’s sake you’re right…then I find it hard to believe such a counter-strategy would be unsuccessful.

    I have NO PROBLEM with the Chinese buying a ton of our assets, for all the reasons listed above and more. What I have a problem with is them buying a ton of our DEBT. Because then, you really are selling something irreplaceable. You’re selling your future, and the future of your descendants. I don’t mind if they own our old stuff — we’ll just build new stuff, and then sell that to them too, so we can build even more. I mind very much if they own us.

    There are enormous cost barriers to entrance into many markets, and the ability of a state-owned business enterprise to artificially depress markets in order to exclude competition is as anti-consumer as things can be.

    A good thing, then, that American businessmen will have money from the sale of their old companies to start new competitors…and money to hire the talent whose ingenuity will allow them to offer different-but-better versions of the same services. Again, the pie is not fixed. Also, the Chinese economy is built on a house of cards, as you well know. When it collapses, how much of America will they be able to afford to buy?

    Economic theory is fine and simple when its confined to a classroom.

    But when you real world adversaries who are engaged in economic warfare — and make not mistake about China’s intentions — you are only shipping them “ammo” when you are shipping them cash.

    To graft my points onto your analogy: I have no problem selling my enemies ammunition for their rifles so they can shoot at me. Do you know why? It’s because I’ll use some of their money to make body armor. Then after a while, I’ll be happy to sell them the body armor too…and I’ll use some of the profit to make armor-piercing bullets. Then I’ll sell them the better bullets too…and use the money to make laser pulse rifles that can shoot twice the distance of even the best conventional firearms with pinpoint accuracy. And the cycle will continue, on and on and on.

    In short, let them make war all they want. I’ll win…on and off the battlefield.

    Demosthenes (17f107)

  36. Rights that’s what we were doing with the Japanese, we were shopping them steel, which came back as zeroes and the torpedoes against the Arizona.

    Japan in the 80s, had a property bubble that fallow curiously didn’t notice.

    narciso (9b1eec)

  37. Foreinhers are reducing their holdings of Treasury securities because they stand to lose when hedging unless they don’t wnat t be liquid at all.

    https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2018/02/28/business/28reuters-bonds-investments-analysis.html

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  38. And I thought Dubya was a dim bulb. This buffoon doesn’t know the difference between Trade Deficits and Budget Deficits.

    ‘Goes to show ya, you don’t have to be smart or moral to be a billionaire.

    Tillman (a95660)

  39. Still and all, whatever influence you may have had, and I think you had a great deal, got squandered when you fired your insult cannon so early and so often.

    Even now, perhaps calling the policy idiotic might be more persuasive than calling Trump an idiot.

    Fred Z, I’ll start by quoting Dave:

    But Trump is an idiot.

    This.

    The nice thing about this blog is that I can say what I think and I don’t have to worry about how my words will affect my ability to influence people and all that noise. I don’t care about any of that. If I did I’d moderate my tone the way politicians do. You know, be less truthful. But I don’t have to do that, Fred Z. Because I don’t care.

    Some consider this a plus; they’re getting honesty. Others like Fred Z would rather have me say something different than I really think, to maintain influence.

    I have made my decision, and I can live with the disappointment of the Fred Zs of the world.

    It’s not just that Donald Trump’s ideas are often idiotic, which they are. He is, personally, an idiot.

    And that’s the truth. *blows strawberry*

    Patterico (115b1f)

  40. This was Trump’s last tweet on ths subject:

    Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump

    When a country Taxes our products coming in at, say, 50%, and we Tax the same product coming into our country at ZERO, not fair or smart. We will soon be starting RECIPROCAL TAXES so that we will charge the same thing as they charge us. $800 Billion Trade Deficit-have no choice!

    5:57 AM – 2 Mar 2018

    Each country taxes different things.

    What does this mean? Does he want reciprocal high tariffs?

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  41. Anyone who can listen to the mush coming out of his mouth at that gun legislation meeting and not conclude that he is an idiot is blinded by partisanship, to put it kindly.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  42. What you do about it is a different question. Maybe nothing can be done. But we can at least speak the truth about the guy.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  43. I was reading conversations online yesterday by people who work for companies that manufacture products with steel. Their take, almost to a person, was something along the lines of: the result of this will be that we have to raise our prices, because our steel costs will go up (either because foreign suppliers will be more expensive directly, or because demand competition will drive up domestic costs to match), and the end result of that will be that our consumers buy from foreign manufacturers who can produce less expensively.

    This will be a disastrous policy for the economy.

    But — and let’s be honest here — this is why the rust belt Obama/Trump voters voted for him. This is what he promised he would do, and he delivered on his promise.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  44. So the electorate got fed up with people who have an education, who (cough, cough) know what the !#@$ they’re talking about. So this is what you get instead: ignorance. Too bad. Too bad for all of us.

    Tillman (a95660)

  45. ` Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump

    We must protect our country and our workers. Our steel industry is in bad shape. IF YOU DON’T HAVE STEEL, YOU DON’T HAVE A COUNTRY!

    5:01 AM – 2 Mar 2018

    Well, maybe Stalin would have signed on to that. He was big on steel production.

    https://manofsteelgp.weebly.com/industry.html

    https://tribune.com.pk/story/1254317/stalins-steel/

    The one thing is, I don’t think Trump really believes that. (that if you don’t have steel, you don’t have a country. He doesn’t even believe that there will be much of a difference in the amount of steel produced in the United States one way or the other.)

    He’s just justifying something he did for political reasons/campaign promises. That makes him sound like an idiot. Sometimes a person isn’t an idiot – he’s just pushing something.

    I heard an argument that only one of the five steel something in the U.S. is of high quality. Or maybe that’s aluminum:

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/tariffs-on-steel-aluminum-are-long-overdue-2018-03-02

    There is only one remaining U.S. producer of high-quality aluminum alloy needed for military aerospace needs, and maintaining and upgrading our infrastructure, which must be done for reasons of economic security, is a major use of aluminum.

    Listen if you want to keep a production line and such open and available, and there could be an argument for that, just subsidise it directly!

    Go to Congress and ask for money.

    Don’t do all of this.

    But still a tariff is better than the quota options he had.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  46. 44. This doesn’t make sense even in the rust belt, any more than it makes sense for people in Iowa to subsidize ethanol.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  47. Yep, ol’ Spanky Pants is in way over his head. But he doesn’t even have the sense to know it.

    Tillman (a95660)

  48. Yeah, Trump is really messing up the economy with all that record employment, record manufacturing, record energy production, and record stock market.

    Maybe we should elect more “idiots”.

    TheBas (3bcea0)

  49. Anyone who can listen to the mush coming out of his mouth at that gun legislation meeting and not conclude that he is an idiot is blinded by partisanship, to put it kindly.

    Patterico (115b1f) — 3/2/2018 @ 12:52 pm

    But since it has been assured, by the NRA, that he has backed off on those proposals, and Alec Baldwin caught some ish this morning, wanna bet that SNL will feature a skit where DJT is pistol-whipped, rifle-butted and sat within earshot of rounds being fired into backtracking.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  50. When did your parents have “The Talk” with you about Tariffs?

    Pinandpuller (e27a51)

  51. could the steel tariffs be the last nail in the california high speed rail coffin?

    i think they could be and you know what I’m ok with that

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  52. So far it is just talk. Trump’s in a panel van down from the JR High taking a poll on who wants to help him find his lost puppy. Will a federal judge or two and SVU stop him? Well, he has to act first. We can’t do anything until then.

    Pinandpuller (e27a51)

  53. Mark Levin did several hours on tariffs back during the election.
    While he was not pro Trump tariff, he did point out that we have loads of tariffs. Trumps on manufactured leather, tariffs on women’s handbags, tariffs on imported vegetables, tariffs on textiles of various kinds, different percentages for this, for that, for the other thing. He went on for an hour with all the tariffs we have.

    We are already doing exactly the policy Trump states. We’re just not doing it very well.

    We’re getting worked by those countries who subsidize and who don’t bother protecting their employees or the environment. And when we lose that business we crucially lose our know-how and can-do.

    We have an excellent steel industry in the US as steel buyers will tell you. We make great high quality steels. But we have ceded moderate quality to the Chinese (and buyers will tell you that you usually have to buy a grade better than what you want to get what you want because if they throw you crap quality it’s not like you can sue). And the moderate-quality zone is very high quantity.

    Providing some shifting incentive for that to come back here would mean jobs and skills and reliability… along with some of the higher prices mentioned. I’m willing to pay that, as long as I get that. (Steel is just an example.)

    Ingot (e5bf64)

  54. Happy, they’re not even at that point yet, still too many EIRs and such that your favorite Cabinet member has been too distracted to strike from federal-aid project requirements. CA was stoopid to pay what they already paid to consultants; they should have just commandeered the money toward a general statewide infrastructure rehabilitation program.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  55. hrm

    i also wonder how many of the wall prototypes are steel-heavy

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  56. Hyper-inflation is on the way. The timing is thanks to the hyper-egotist.

    Ed from SFV (3400a5)

  57. hyper-inflation cause of a 10% aluminum tariff and a 25% steel tariff are you even cereal in america

    there’s no way that’s even a thing

    there’s SO many ways to balance the tariff costs they’re actually liable to overshoot the mark and end up with a vastly more competitive domestic steel industry than anticipated (as long as the dirty union piggies are kept in check)

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  58. Those who defend tariffs by saying, “We need to keep our own steel/leather glove/buggywhip capacity or we’ll be overrun by the Irish/Chinese/Mexican hoardes” are saying: I’m smarter than the crowd-sourced economy, and I’m more fit to decide who the winners and losers should be, and you need to let me impose these tariffs so I can pick good winners.

    You ain’t that smart. Nobody is.

    This whole meme of “Once they get their market share up, they’ll start imposing monopoly prices on us!” — that’s BS to. It’s always been BS, but it is especially BS in an information & skills economy.

    Remember that our master businessman POTUS invested in the only industry that can literally fix its own odds so that the house always wins — and then went through multiple waves of bankruptcy, cascading from one insolvency to another despite that. He’s a moron who operates at a kindergarten level of sophistication, and if you think he’s going to somehow come up with wondrous new deals that defy the laws of economics, you’re a moron too.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  59. * BS too (and times two).

    Beldar (fa637a)

  60. Ingot, at 54: and so by increasing the cost of steel to users of steel, we increase the cost of the goods *they* produce … and if their customers can get things cheaper from overseas, they will do so.

    This just moves the locus of giving up the market and losing jobs, from steel mills to people who produce things with steel. Only … there are a lot more of the latter than there are of the former.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  61. @40/42/43 You’re gonna give yourself an ulcer, Patterico.

    Imagine in that meeting he was discussing the pros and cons of the Big Mac and the Whopper. “You gotta keep the special sauce or it’ll never sell.” “Hold the pickle and lettuce? You’re afraid of the Clown!” And so on. It’s all the same styled prattle; the ‘art of the spiel’ to him. It’s like he’s there, but he’s really not there at all, except for the camera. It’s sad– and sadly entertaining.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  62. @61 My point is not limited to steel. How is this different from the tariffs we already have? We already have tariffs on steel/textiles/leather/vegetables and we’re getting undercut and screwed and our trade-enemies favor their own people and don’t let us sell into their markets.

    Increasing the tariffs gives an incentive to either move the industry here, or for them (whoever they are in the example) to open up their market or quit subsidizing. (Or start a trade war and subsidize even more.)

    Ingot (e5bf64)

  63. here’s a list of canada’s top ten exports aluminum is #8 steel per se is not in top 10

    note also that aluminum is their second fastest-growing export category (2016-2017)

    (#1 is oil)

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  64. 43.What you do about it is a different question. Maybe nothing can be done. But we can at least speak the truth about the guy.

    So why doesn’t anybody stand up in front of him and in front of the TV cameras and call him out for being absolutely crackers and resign from the Cabinet or from the staff on the spot??? If you caught some of that governor’s meeting a few days ago our Captain got visibly agitated, twitching with arms crossed when challenged in public on camera– it’s a wonder he wasn’t rolling little steel balls in his hand to calm himself.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  65. I run a trade deficit with Costco.

    If Costco made their employees work in squalid conditions for pennies per hour, your analogy would be impeccable. Have you personally toured a factory in East Asia? I have.

    Adam Smith wrote at a time when slavery was the norm. Trade between England and the American South may have been to the advantage of both, but not to the advantage of slaves nor of exporters who didn’t use slaves.

    random viking (6a54c2)

  66. Hyperinflation would be welcome as alternative to the next CRASH!

    The underground economy won’t savebys this time.

    Ben burn (abbb2c)

  67. @64. Our Captain doesn’t drink coffee but is a “caff-fiend” Mr. Feet; likes his Diet Coke fix out of an aluminum can. Will he switch to bottles or go w/the two-liter economy size?!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  68. here is an interesting news

    First New Coal Mine of Trump Era Opens in Pennsylvania

    please to note this part carefully:

    The mine will reportedly be producing metallurgical or bituminous coal – which is used in steel-making

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  69. i hope you were careful

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  70. Save us this time..

    Ben burn (abbb2c)

  71. Viking has temerity to mention Adam Smith

    Ben burn (abbb2c)

  72. Will he switch to bottles or go w/the two-liter economy size?!

    it would be a good example on america if he did the 2 liter but there’s probably room to tighten up that packaging configuration too if you make the bottles more square you could move more volume per pallet

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  73. If Costco made their employees work in squalid conditions for pennies per hour, your analogy would be impeccable. Have you personally toured a factory in East Asia? I have

    Were the workers “made” to work there? Or did they choose it over even less desirable options? Those who oppose sweatshops would in many cases consign the employees to lives of sexual exploitation. Nick Kristof has written about this and I bet he visited even more of these operations than you have. Not to mention that this is not why Trump is doing this. So your desperate attempt to justify this nonsense (with an extra air of “I’ve been there” style Moral Authority) is both counterproductive and off point. But keep defending Trump, by all means. It seems to be your only reason for commenting here.

    Patterico (0a74c4)

  74. Adam Smith wrote at a time when slavery was the norm. Trade between England and the American South may have been to the advantage of both, but not to the advantage of slaves nor of exporters who didn’t use slaves.

    Chances are if you go to Costco, find a recent printing of Smith’s work and read the publisher’s page, it’ll say it was ‘Printed In China.’ 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  75. @73. Our Captain would get a higher refund for his recycled aluminum can than his 2-liter bottle, Mr. Feet.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  76. Icahn, a billionaire investor who was a major Trump supporter, started selling shares in the crane and lifting equipment supplier Manitowoc Company on 12 February, days before the commerce department first mooted plans to impose stiff tariffs on foreign steel imports. The news was first reported by Think Progress. On Thursday Trump said he would press ahead with the commerce department’s plans to levy 25% tariffs on imports of steel and 10% on aluminum. According to a regulatory filing Icahn was able to sell his shares for $32 to $34. On Friday morning Manitowoc’s shares had fallen 5.48% to $26.37. The fall was in line with drops seen by other companies dependent on cheap steel imports, including Boeing and Caterpillar.
    We are all the person at the table who can’t tell who the sucker is.

    https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a19061210/carl-icahn-steel-company-shares-sell/

    Ben burn (abbb2c)

  77. Hoagie…check in dude.

    Ben burn (abbb2c)

  78. @69. Back to the future, eh, Mr. Feet.

    Alas, “Once the center of the American steel industry, and still known as “The Steel City”, today the city of Pittsburgh has no steel mills within its limits…” – wikipedia

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  79. looks like there were solid non-tariff reasons for Mr. Icahn to trim his stake in manitowoc

    and to be clear he only sold off a third of his investment

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  80. @80. “Icahn’t” believe he’d pull a ‘Martha Stewart,’ Mr. Feet!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  81. 80

    Trump announced publicly his intent. How is that not insider trading?

    Ben burn (abbb2c)

  82. Icahn is a Putineer when he profits aa such.

    Ben burn (abbb2c)

  83. Mr. DCSCA steel is good for building new things like Amazon HQ2 and mexico walls and water towers and roller coasters and submarine aircraft carriers and the first series of terminator robots

    i’m excited about the resurgence of the steel industry

    we’re gonna have so much fun

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  84. Have you heard of Alternate Reality Chef Wolfgang Happy feet?

    Ben burn (abbb2c)

  85. U.S. Steel’s largest domestic facility is Gary Works, in Gary, Indiana; Gary is also home to the U.S. Steel Yard baseball stadium.

    oh my goodness nobody needs a shot in the arm more than Gary that’s for sure

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  86. Mr. burn the train to the future’s pulling out of the station and it’s riding on American-made steel!

    and in the diner car you can get miller lite and cup o noodles

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  87. ooh look and also Minnesota is involved

    U.S. Steel operates two major taconite mining and pelletizing operations in northeastern Minnesota’s Iron Range under the operating name Minnesota Ore Operations.

    it’s so sad Prince didn’t live to see this

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  88. Is there anything Trump could do that his supporters wouldn’t find excuses for?

    Is this a trick question?.

    Dave (445e97)

  89. i love the bleak and grim beauty of the iron range

    there you will see human endeavor at its most raw and optimistic set against the natural beauty of the dark and unforgiving woodlands

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  90. @91. Strip mining; sexy and very dirty, eh, Mr. Feet.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  91. strip mining is a very good resource extraction technique Mr. DCSCA cause it’s very very safe and people go to work and they have a really nice time cause they don’t have to go into the bowels of the erf perhaps never to return

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  92. Yeah, Trump is really messing up the economy with all that record employment,

    “The unemployment number, as you know, is totally fiction.”
    – Donald Trump, December 8, 2016

    Dave (445e97)

  93. The unemployment number

    And inflation? Numbers like inflation are rope-a-dope..

    Ben burn (abbb2c)

  94. Condi Rice endorses gunz…lol

    “I was a little girl growing up in Birmingham, Alabama, in the late fifties, early sixties,” she explained. “There was no way that Bull Connor and the Birmingham Police were going to protect you.”

    “And so when White Knight Riders would come through our neighborhood,” she said, “my father and his friends would take their guns and they’d go to the head of the neighborhood, it’s a little cul-de-sac and they would fire in the air, if anybody came through.”

    “I don’t think they actually ever hit anybody,” she continued. “But they protected the neighborhood. And I’m sure if Bull Connor had known where those guns were he would have rounded them up.”

    “And so, I don’t favor some things like gun registration,” she said to a suddenly silent crowd.”

    Ben burn (abbb2c)

  95. record employment

    How’s the labor participation rate looking?

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  96. “The unemployment number, as you know, is totally fiction.”

    Heh! Although it actually is. Dot.gov does have real time information on employment. It’s the FICA withholding that employers send in. But that information is not easy to manipulate for political posturing.

    nk (dbc370)

  97. Trump hasn’t tweeted about the stock market in 23 days

    He’s a Somalian Tanker Pirate.

    Ben burn (abbb2c)

  98. > How is this different from the tariffs we already have?

    The tariffs we already have caused an economic distortion when they were adopted, and had a similar effect.

    It’s not any different.

    Implementing this tariff now will drive consumers of steel out of business, and shift purchases of steel-consuming products towards foreign manufacturers.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  99. @74:

    You didn’t provide a link to the Kristof article, but perhaps it’s this:
    https://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/15/opinion/15kristof.html

    He doesn’t mention that a lot of the workers in China are “illegals”. You need permission from the government to move from one province/district to another. Families move to industrialized areas for better opportunities, but if done without approval they cannot legally get jobs there. Companies take advantage of that in the same way as in the U.S. So, yes, they are “made” to work under those conditions. The alternative is to remain in the rural province they came from with no prospects.

    Not to mention that this is not why Trump is doing this.

    Maybe I missed your alternate explanation, or was it simply that Trump is an idiot? I don’t think he wants Americans to compete against workers who view squalid factory conditions as a marked improvement in their lives. Kristof doesn’t even touch on this because, being a good elitist, he couldn’t care less.

    As for moral authority, I’ll leave that to government workers and lawyers, for whom “outsourcing” is a quaint concept from some theoretical domain that may as well be the craters on Pluto.

    random viking (6a54c2)

  100. @96. Ben, any street cred she had was shot down by her own words a long time ago…

    https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4510686/condoleezza-rice-remembers-bin-laden-memo

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  101. She had credibility when it augmented her paycheck, DC.

    I use her like a snot-rag.

    Ben burn (abbb2c)

  102. did you know they even named a football team cause of steel it’s truly a remarkable metal

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  103. The inflation calculus doesn’t include food or fuel, only the cost of finished goods, inflation arises from increases in the money supply.

    narciso (d1f714)

  104. DC: I sincerely hope you aren’t unduly influenced because of your Yoot.

    I can temper it but not a lot.

    Ben burn (abbb2c)

  105. Ben Card..Condi Rice are equal under the Law.

    Ben burn (abbb2c)

  106. Hes about your age, cadet burn,

    narciso (d1f714)

  107. But he’s an Uncle Tom with Tar Babies in tow narco. Have you greater expectations from the taxpayers Grifter?

    Ben burn (abbb2c)

  108. No i meant disco, finally got around to seeing sunset boulevard,

    narciso (d1f714)

  109. I don’t think he wants Americans to compete against workers who view squalid factory conditions as a marked improvement in their lives

    I don’t want to have to work for a living.

    Reality sucks huh

    Patterico (0a74c4)

  110. Vern Troyer was born and raised Amish but left after a while because sometimes isolationism and protectionism hurts the little guy.

    Pinandpuller (79a7a9)

  111. I don’t think he wants Americans to compete against workers who view squalid factory conditions as a marked improvement in their lives. Kristof doesn’t even touch on this because, being a good elitist, he couldn’t care less.

    So who do you care about: the factory workers abroad or the American steel workers? Why are you citing the plight of the factory workers when tariffs would only hurt them? Trump is not doing this to help them — which is what I mean when I say your point is irrelevant to why he is doing this. It’s a non-sequitur even if you were right on the economics, which you are not.

    Patterico (0a74c4)

  112. narciso

    Hayley Mills is both DCSCA and Ben.

    Pinandpuller (79a7a9)

  113. Says Asia expert:

    “China’s been committing economic hate crimes against the American people for a long time,” said Mosher. “By stealing technology and so forth, they might as well have carpet bombed the industrial heartland of America into rubble. The end result has been the same. You need a defense industrial base. You need hard industry. There are only four countries that really make things, in any number and that is the united States, Japan, Germany, and China. We need to make things. Manufacturing is still the basis of a strong economy. How would we be able to be the arsenal of democracy if we allow our steel factories to be shuttered by Chinese steel dumping on our markets?”

    TheBas (3bcea0)

  114. The factories that left la and Oakland in the 70d and 80s, wereerfectly fungible right, we don’t have good options.

    narciso (d1f714)

  115. I care about American values—therefore I care about American workers. I care about the workers abroad much less, and I think so does Trump.

    I cite the plight of the workers abroad because that is what the likes of a Kristof would have our workers compete against. If’s a non-sequitur only for those completely divorced from the realities of that sort of competitive environment, of which outsourcing is just one aspect.

    random viking (6a54c2)

  116. So instead of our steel factories going overseas, our machine and tool factories will, because the increase in the cost of their input product will force them to raise prices in a way that makes them uncompetitive.

    So do we respond to that by imposing tariffs on machines and tools, and then again on anything made with those machines and tools, etc?

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  117. Fake NEWS

    President Donald Trump is asking chief of staff John Kelly for help in pushing his daughter and son-in-law out of the White House, The New York Times reports.

    The Times, citing two people familiar with Trump’s views, said Trump has been frustrated with his son-in-law Kushner after his top secret security clearance was downgraded this week and a report came out that officials from four countries had discussed ways to manipulate him during their dealings on foreign policy.
    But Trump has told Kushner, who is a senior adviser, and his daughter Ivanka that they should remain in their roles, the Times reported.
    Trump has vented at times that the couple should have never come to the White House and should leave, White House aides told the newspaper.

    Ben burn (abbb2c)

  118. Let’s see if Trump can get a new refinery built or should we just outsource?

    Pinandpuller (79a7a9)

  119. should we just outsource?

    Would you be ok with Russian assistance pin? You may have to eat borscht.

    Ben burn (abbb2c)

  120. That’s beets and water.

    Ben burn (abbb2c)

  121. So what is your solution to our moribund industrial base, aphrael, these trade agreement involve then of thousands of pages of regulation, a regular forest that you need a swamp critter to navigate.

    narciso (d1f714)

  122. Trump has vented at times that the couple should have never come to the White House

    And it only took President Wile E. Coyote (“Genius”) 14 months to work out this pearl of logic!

    Dave (445e97)

  123. Whale oil and candle stocks plummeted today upon rumors of tonight’s full moon.

    It really is rather bloody brilliant, innit?

    Pinandpuller (79a7a9)

  124. My dad hates beets but I can take or leave them in my Greek salad.

    Pinandpuller (79a7a9)

  125. Of course since it’s NBC it’s fake news but it appears Trump’s inimitable skills as an executive were on display.
    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/amp/trump-was-angry-unglued-when-he-started-trade-war-officials-n852641

    Kishnevi (39af22)

  126. Trump is right. We have to preserve our national wealth and bring up the value/expense of labor to narrow the gap between rich Americans and working Americans. And without unions, hopefully. Just by inflating the value of labor. Your investments in China or whatever can go to zero and that is good.

    Jcurtis (65b3aa)

  127. Trumpian reasoning:

    We should produce the same products and do the same jobs as people in dirt-poor countries.

    Because that will make us rich.

    Every American should have the opportunity to hold a job that unskilled Mexicans or Chinese will do for $1.50/hour.

    #MAGA

    Dave (445e97)

  128. Top twenty “dirt poor countries” that import steel to the United States.

    M CANADA
    M BRAZIL
    M MEXICO
    M KOREA
    M RUSSIA
    M JAPAN
    M GERMANY
    M TURKEY
    M TAIWAN
    M CHINA
    M NETHERLANDS
    M VIETNAM
    M ITALY
    M THAILAND
    M SPAIN
    M SWEDEN
    M AUSTRIA
    M UNITED KINGDOM
    M FRANCE
    M SOUTH AFRICA

    papertiger (c8116c)

  129. Gotta wonder how the Netherlands manages to pull it off.

    Importing all the raw materials, processing them into steel, then exporting the finished product to the United States.

    The only organic advantage they got is plenty of water to quench the molten metal.

    Perhaps it’s all those third world muslims they import for labor keeping the prices down?

    papertiger (c8116c)

  130. Of course… Muslims !

    Danish pay the piper on the back end.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  131. Raising a tarrif on the Danes is saving their society from the butcher’s bill.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  132. The only organic advantage they got is plenty of water to quench the molten metal.

    Perhaps it’s all those third world muslims they import for labor keeping the prices down?

    papertiger (c8116c) — 3/2/2018 @ 7:23 pm

    Getting ahead of the sword demand curve. Or is that curved sword demand?

    Pinandpuller (91b17b)

  133. The storm is being blamed for at least five deaths, including a man in his 70s who died when a tree fell on him
    in Newport, RI. Falling trees also killed an 11-yr-old boy in Putnam Valley, NY, a man in Virginia, a 6-yr-old boy in Chester, VA, and a 77-yr-old woman in Kingsville, MD.

    does that seem kinda extreme to anybody

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  134. Here’s an odd thing.

    https://www.bing.com/search?q=Dow+Jones+Industrial+Average

    Dow Jones Industrial Average
    DOW · March 2, 4:20 PM EST
    24,538.06
    ▼ 70.92 (0.29%)
    Day High 24592.46 Open 24394.91 52wk High 26616.71
    Day Low 24217.76 Vol 437.13 M 52wk Low 20379.55

    See that?

    The DOW opened at 24394.91, and closed at 24538.06, and yet they claim a drop of ▼ 70.92 (0.29%).

    Then if you look around the net the story is told as “Trump’s tarrif causes drop on Wall Street”.

    Sorry but 24538.06 minus 24394.91 equals a gain ▲ 143.15 (0.59%).

    Pretty sad when even the stock market page is falsely reporting plain to see stock tickers to push a narrative

    papertiger (c8116c)

  135. WHEN Joanna Demafelis’ indebted family needed money to fix their typhoon-battered home, she followed in the footsteps of millions of other Filipinos and left to find work overseas. And like far too many Filipinos, her journey ended in tragedy.

    Demafelis’ mutilated body was found last month inside a freezer in an abandoned apartment in Kuwait, where she worked as a housemaid for a Lebanese man and his Syrian wife. She had likely been dead for more than a year.

    Demafelis’ flower-draped coffin sat Friday in her family home in rural Sara town in central Iloilo province, where relatives, who had alerted authorities in 2016 that she was missing, honoured her memory and called for justice.

    “We’ll miss her. She was so kind to all of us,” her brother Joejet Demafelis said, adding hundreds of relatives and friends came on the eve of her burial.

    Her slaying is the latest tragedy to befall an overseas worker from the Philippines, where about a tenth of the nation’s 100 million people toil in more than 200 countries worldwide to provide for families back home. Last year, those workers sent home more than $40 billion, accounting for 10 per cent of the country’s gross domestic product.

    News.com.au

    Pinandpuller (91b17b)

  136. does that seem kinda extreme to anybody

    happyfeet (28a91b) — 3/2/2018 @ 7:37 pm

    Storm moves over Eastern Seaboard:

    Trees, the elderly, and children, hardest hit.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  137. Its seems crimethink is not appreciated:

    http://dailycaller.com/2018/02/27/white-house-democrats-nominees6

    narciso (d1f714)

  138. does that seem kinda extreme to anybody

    happyfeet (28a91b) — 3/2/2018 @ 7:37 pm

    It sounds like a Mark Wahlberg movie.

    Pinandpuller (91b17b)

  139. BTW

    Compared to the four previous administrations, this Senate has confirmed the fewest nominees. 73 fewer confirmations than the next closest administration. Half of President Trump’s nominees are still waiting for confirmation in the Senate,” Sanders said. “The obstruction is so out of control even some Senate Democrats believe it is inappropriate.

    That’s Mitch McConnell’s doing. He won’t adjourn the Senate to allow Trump recess appointments to go through.

    Someone needs to grab Mitch by the ear and ask him why he’s being public enemy number one. This [edit] is getting old.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  140. Happyfeet, if it were summer it be called a hurricane.
    Papertiger, Google is a bit more informative. The Dow closed at 24,608.98 yesterday afternoon. Overnight trading dropped it further until at this mornings opening it was approximately 214 points lower than it was at yesterday’s closing. It made up most but not all of that gain today. But it did close lower than yesterday’s closing.

    Kishnevi (1a529d)

  141. They overepaid at one dollar:
    https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/290182/

    narciso (d1f714)

  142. They allow one sane professor per semester:
    http://www.watcherofweasels.org/founding-fathers-gun-control

    narciso (d1f714)

  143. Drudge headline tonight:

    MEDIA POUND AWAY
    APPROVAL HOLDS AT 49%

    Not being O’Failure and Cankles really is worth it’s weight in benefit of the doubt.

    harkin (8256c3)

  144. OT, but not several posts ago….Aziz Ansari and the pansy who didnt get to touch the boob the next day were fortunate by comparison: http://abc7chicago.com/police-man-stabbed-after-sex-partners-accuse-him-of-rape/3164826/?sf183518330=1

    urbanleftbehind (847a06)

  145. Bastiat, you magnificent ba$tard! You and your bros in the field of economics have all your free market acolytes convinced of your infallibility, the immutability of your economic laws. In most fields, if your observations are different than your theory, you throw out that theory. But in economics, you throw out results that don’t meet your observations, manipulating your theory with all manner of twisted reasons why the market was “distorted”.

    You’ve convinced folks that there is equilibrium in free markets when there is an optimal efficiency achieved, a theoretical balance of supply and demand. But several real-world examples exist where the laws of supply and demand are violated. The automobile commuter’s turning down a low incremental income from an additional passenger, hot concert tickets selling out in seconds, and video game’s cost over time with skyrocketing demand come to mind immediately. If you really stop to think about it, you’ll find many more examples.

    Economists start with a philosophical foundation that is underpinned by the expectation that people behave in a rational manner to maximize results. From there, they deduce how those participating in a market ought to behave, but never prove their premise. Yeah, this is hypothesizing, but economists are unique in holding onto theories despite inherent contradiction of results observed. What other science rests on 200 year old theories? Even Einstein’s theories are constantly under scrutiny.

    But what’s really galling are economic forecasts. They are almost always wrong, yet virtually every government depends on these forecasts in order to make policy decisions.

    China – they have a 50 and 100 year plans. They have absolutely no intention of ever adopting free market principles. They steal our intellectual property – $600 billion worth every year. They cheat by violating virtually every trade deal they sign. They intend to dominate the world by drawing other countries into their orbit and crushing the U.S. with economic warfare.

    Putting Trump aside (please), we have to do something different. I look at these tariffs as a shot across the bow, that the U.S. will no longer fund China’s ascendancy and hence their authoritarian and communistic hegemony.

    Markets are distorted everywhere I look. I look forward to seeing what happens.

    Lenny (5ea732)

  146. Good grief Kenny, get a grip. We’re talking about principles here!! /sarc

    TheBas (3bcea0)

  147. Former CIA chief John Brennan on Friday predicted “rough waters ahead,” particularly on international issues, because President Trump is “unstable, inept, inexperienced, and also unethical.”

    http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/376547-ex-cia-chief-trump-unstable-inept-inexperienced-and-also-unethical

    Note that this is worse than Archie Bunker – much worse.

    Tillman (a95660)

  148. Oops, Lenny I mean.

    TheBas (3bcea0)

  149. Would you call that “Californication by two red hot chili peppers”, urbanleftbehind?

    nk (dbc370)

  150. I know when I think of “ethical”, the CIA is always my example.

    TheBas (3bcea0)

  151. The one who voted for the communist in 1980, al quds Brennan who pushed for the moderate Hezbollah that guy.

    narciso (d1f714)

  152. @152 – Here’s some food for thought. I really recommend you read the whole article, but here’s the intro and summary by an author in the economics trenches:

    We are experiencing deep economic problems and it is the fault of the economics discipline. Their macro theories suck. But, there is no mechanism forcing it to alter its models when they don’t appear to work. This is so because economists basically write for each other in a language only they understand and their jobs depend on impressing a limited number of journal editors and referees, not correcting real-world problems. The academic inbreeding that has resulted has led to dysfunctional theories and, despite the fact that there were economists who accurately forecast the Financial Crisis, because their work is incompatible with what is published in “good” journals it has been all but ignored. Economics is broken and there is no internal incentive to fix it.

    The terrible bottom line here is that the school of thought that encouraged the idea that the financial system could properly price subprime derivatives is the same one that assumes the economy fixes itself and we don’t really need to pay too close attention to the banking sector. They also brought us the view that exporting jobs to China won’t really hurt us (remember, they assume we return to full employment automatically), we can allow merger after merger and not experience a decline in competitiveness (you know, like in health care), austerity measures help fix economies (they’ve done wonders for Greece), tax cuts for the rich increase investment (they actually increase saving, which lowers firm sales and thereby lowers investment), education needs to be privatized (so the poor get excluded), etc, etc.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/johntharvey/2016/10/31/five-reasons-you-should-blame-economics/#71c5a200cccd

    Lenny (5ea732)

  153. Some of the folks Brennan vouched for:
    https://mobile.twitter.com/ClimateAudit/status/969745821431341056

    narciso (d1f714)

  154. 156. All the more reason TheBas. If you think the CIA is unethical, and they’re calling Spanky unethical, then that’s even more of a problem, isn’t it.

    Tillman (a95660)

  155. If you’re going to tango with two Latina chicks who have facial piercings you need to be a power middle.

    Pinandpuller (91b17b)

  156. Man is born wholesale

    And everywhere he is paying retail

    Pinandpuller (91b17b)

  157. Would you call that “Californication by two red hot chili peppers”, urbanleftbehind?

    nk (dbc370) — 3/2/2018 @ 9:43 pm

    I’m amazed you even know who that is.

    Pinandpuller (91b17b)

  158. I just want to throw in. Earlier I refered to citizens of THE NETHERLANDS as Danish.

    OF COURSE they are correctly called the Deutsche, or Americanized, the Hollish, or if you are refering to a person from Holland in the singular, the Hollister.

    I denounce myself for the error.

    Here’s a bonus link expressing my chagrin.

    http://www.cgpgrey.com/blog/the-difference-between-holland-the-netherlands

    papertiger (c8116c)

  159. Classic monopoly privilege rent-seeking.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  160. Those who oppose sweatshops would in many cases consign the employees to lives of sexual exploitation.

    This.

    Plucking chickens at 12 cents an hour probably beats the doors of being a sex toy for El Padrone.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  161. if they were plucking chickens at 12 cents an hour UK KFC wouldn’t be suffering gravy shortages. I know that much.

    Calling bs on your economic statistic you pulled out of Hellendoom.

    [Hellendoom is actually a place in the Netherlands. They make cheep steel there, below cost to flood the American market and also novelty Lord of the Rings jewelry. The fires of Mount Doom.
    MAYBE. It’s possible.]

    papertiger (c8116c)

  162. Not about the gravy shortage. That’s actually true.

    https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/290074/

    Due to the UK’s ill considered gravy tarrifs.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  163. Why tariffs? four words wisconsin michigan pennsylvania ohio. you free traders would have lost all four to hillary and three senate races. Populists now run republican party don’t let the door hit you on the way out!

    tariffs good (d437a4)

  164. don’t let the door hit you on the way out!

    I didn’t!

    Dave (445e97)

  165. Meanwhile at Planned Parenthood Kentucky:

    IN a week full of crazy stupid statements from el Presidente Trumpy, the Planned Parenthood twitter account from Kentucky made him hold their beer while they gave us quite possibly the stupidest tweet of the century.. and that’s saying something.

    Behold!!!

    Planned Parenthood
    @PPIndKentucky
    Some men have a uterus.
    Some men have a uterus.
    Some men have a uterus.
    Some men have a uterus.
    Some men have a uterus.
    Some men have a uterus.
    Some men have a uterus.
    Some men have a uterus.
    Some men have a uterus.
    Some men have a uterus.
    Some men have a uterus.

    7:30 PM – Mar 1, 2018
    38.8K
    16.2K people are talking about this

    LOL!! Amazing. Remember this is the supposed “party of science” telling us that men can have uteri because some immoral surgeon is willing to mangle their sexual organs and pump them full of unnatural hormones.

    The Right Scoop

    Pinandpuller (91b17b)

  166. What’s the difference between Planned Parenthood and the NRA?

    One sells arms and the other defends the Second Amendment.

    Pinandpuller (91b17b)

  167. I’m going to quote that Pin.

    Meanwhile……

    Since when did criticizing a domestic terrorist become a signal issue of the far right? Last I checked, that position was a matter of basic decency and patriotism.”

    In the NYTimes, of all places.

    https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/08/01/opinion/womens-march-progressives-hate.html?referer=https://t.co/0bjk0Jsco1?amp=1#click=https://t.co/0bjk0Jsco1

    harkin (4aa570)

  168. For ASPCA… is there ANYTHING he gets right? Not A Single CNN Show Is In The Top 20 For Cable News:

    http://dailycaller.com/2018/03/01/cnn-ratings-falling/?utm_campaign=atdailycaller&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Social

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  169. Californication by two red hot chili peppers”, urbanleftbehind?”

    Not to be outdone, teh Scottish music scene has been set afire by the RedHot Chili Pipers…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  170. Would you call that “Californication by two red hot chili peppers”, urbanleftbehind?

    nk (dbc370) — 3/2/2018 @ 9:43 pm

    I’m amazed you even know who that is.

    It is such things which distinguish the truly erudite from the merely pedantic, my good fellow.

    nk (dbc370)

  171. It is such things which distinguish the truly erudite from the merely pedantic, my good fellow.
    nk (dbc370) — 3/3/2018 @ 6:21 am

    Thread winner. That is all.

    Stashiu3 (466cdf)

  172. That outfit which bailed to al queda, is called the army of islam.

    narciso (d1f714)

  173. I am not an economic expert by any means. That said, if Costco was dedicated to destroying me economically and physically, taking my money for things that are no danger to them would leave me pretty helpless when they moved to destroy me. Fortunately, Costco is not a hostile country. China is, and weakening them lessens the likelihood that they’ll make any kind of move.

    Also, I’m in the “Don’t care much about what he says, look at what he does” camp, especially in regards to guns. He has forced the GOPe gun-grabbers to reveal themselves as what they are. Now, we can primary them and get Second Amendment supporters in office. I’m not worried at all that he’ll come after my guns. I’m just not. He’s just made everyone put their real cards on the table, now he can ignore them.

    Stashiu3 (466cdf)

  174. Hey look! Pistachio is a celebrity judge.

    Ben burn (abbb2c)

  175. Hey look! Pistachio is a celebrity judge.
    Ben burn (abbb2c) — 3/3/2018 @ 6:49 am

    Who farted?

    Stashiu3 (466cdf)

  176. Oh, but you are too modest on your cafeteria of talents. I’m certain you’re expert on ekonomics.

    Ben burn (abbb2c)

  177. Oh, but you are too modest on your cafeteria of talents. I’m certain you’re expert on ekonomics.
    Ben burn (abbb2c) — 3/3/2018 @ 6:51 am

    Lay off the beans.

    Stashiu3 (466cdf)

  178. Will Kushner jump from the White House before Mueller pushes him into the sinkhole? Or will Kushner even get his chance to jump? White House staffers and the president are now thought to regard Kushner as a political liability, and the president has reportedly asked Chief of Staff John Kelly for help in elbowing both Jared and wife Ivanka Trump out of the White House.

    Ivanka Trump might toss her husband a lifeline and plead with her daddy to keep them on. But she’s in a precarious position, too. FBI scrutiny of a Trump Organization deal in Vancouver could block her application for a full security clearance as a presidential adviser and lend Kelly the oomph he needs to give her the full Omarosa and escort her out of the White House. Nobody is saying—yet—that the sinkhole will claim Ivanka. They’re not saying that about her former employee, Hope Hicks, who functioned for three years as Trump’s press go-between and portal to the real world. Hicks placed her big toe over the sinkhole’s edge this week when she gave Capitol Hill testimony confessing to occasional white lies for her president.
    https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/03/03/swamp-diary-mueller-russia-probe-217222

    Ben burn (abbb2c)

  179. He clocked in ahead of time today, Stashiu. That’s because it’s Saturday and he gets time and a half. A higher rate of pay will motivate a worker to be more conscientious and productive, that’s a fact.

    nk (dbc370)

  180. Hokay hotshot. Your ad hominem has whiskers…grey whiskers.

    Ben burn (abbb2c)

  181. Hokay hotshot. Your ad hominem has whiskers…grey whiskers.
    Ben burn (abbb2c) — 3/3/2018 @ 7:03 am

    Ben burn,

    Please point out where anyone said President Obama or Davethulu was responsible for 2008. Please show where I threatened you. Please show where I stated or even implied I was a sockpuppet. Please tell us your age (I said 68) since you bet that you were older than me.

    Or are you, as proven already, a liar and a coward?

    Stashiu3 (466cdf)

  182. Planned Parenthood
    @PPIndKentucky
    Some men have a uterus.
    Some men have a uterus.
    Some men have a uterus.
    Some men have a uterus.
    Some men have a uterus.
    Some men have a uterus………..

    — –

    Ben Shapiro
    @benshapiro
    It seems like a bad idea to let people who don’t understand basic biology perform medical operations

    harkin (4aa570)

  183. His sissyfits in the Oval office seems like the source is Adderol.

    Hope Hicks, a White House spokeswoman, acknowledged that Trump used them as diet pills for a few days in the early 1980s. However, the medical records contradict the assertion of the length of time Trump used the drugs and photographs of Trump from 1982 show him to be quite slender. In a telephone call from Newsweek, Bornstein, Trump’s current doctor, said he would only answer questions if I could identify the location of Mount Sinai. Assuming he was referring to the world-renowned hospital, I replied “Manhattan.” He said that was incorrect, and asked the question again. I asked if he meant the actual Mount Sinai and he said he had not specified anything. I replied Mount Sinai was in Egypt, in the Sinai Peninsula. He said that was wrong and hung up. (While Mount Sinai is in Egypt, the location of the Mount Sinai described in the Bible as the location where God gave Moses the Ten Commandments, if that is what Bornstein meant, is the subject of debate among religious scholars.)

    Ben burn (abbb2c)

  184. nk,

    I always looked for overtime or incentive pay working as a civilian, so I agree with you completely.

    Stashiu3 (466cdf)

  185. I’m not your dancing monkey pisstachio.

    Your aspersions are loaded w/errata, ignorance and delusion. See Urgent Care.

    Ben burn (abbb2c)

  186. Ben burn,

    You’re not as entertaining as a dancing monkey, true. Any one of those four things are completely provable however. Which again proves you a coward for not answering any of them. What proves you a liar again is saying my questions were aspersions, and that those questions were not accurate.

    Liar and coward.

    Stashiu3 (466cdf)

  187. Answer any of them. Just one.

    hahahaha

    Stashiu3 (466cdf)

  188. Trump’s announcement of anachronistic trade tariffs this week was portrayed as out of the blue, but it was no such thing. Trump ran on ending multilateral trade agreements and recreating an America of the distant past that culls every human and material resource from within. Republicans who are now in full blown freakout over a potential trade war voted for exactly what they’re getting.

    In every way, Donald Trump is a president built for the past; a benighted, late 19th Century figure who spun his supporters a tale that he could restore a bygone era when coal fires burned, factories hummed, steel mills belched out soot and opportunity and a (white) man with a sturdy back, a high school diploma and a song in his heart could buy a little house, marry a little wife and have 3 cherry-cheeked kids he didn’t ever have to cook or clean for, plus if he can afford it, a hot mistress on the side. Trump is the slovenly but brash, gold-plated emblem of a time when in the imagination of his followers, black women hummed a tune while they cleaned your house or did the washing, black men tipped their hat on the street but didn’t dare look you in the eye, and neither would dream of moving in next door. A time when women asked their husbands for an allowance, not their boss for a promotion, men were “allowed to be men” complete with ribald jokes and a slap on the fanny for the pretty secretary at work, and there were no gays, no trans people, no birth control … they somehow just didn’t exist! The rural folks were the salt of the earth and we only let in “a certain kind of immigrant” whose only goal was to shake off his ethnicity and “assimilate.” Everyone went to (separate) church on Sundays and everyone “got along.” It’s a plasticine world that for many must feel like it truly existed, though of course it never did.

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-right-cant-fight-the-future

    Ben burn (abbb2c)

  189. Of course not all y’all believed his carp, but you are cave- dwellers

    Ben burn (abbb2c)

  190. Hmm… nobody commenting on your links. Wonder if they can see them. It’s a puzzlement.

    Stashiu3 (466cdf)

  191. I believe that if you had the Ten Commandments posted in a prominent place in school, it has the possibility to prohibit some student from taking action to kill other students,” Dial said.

    But no one here takes this seriously..

    Ben burn (abbb2c)

  192. Shorter Ben burn link: President Trump is a delusional racist who wants to turn back the clock to a fictional 1960.

    Stashiu3 (466cdf)

  193. For those who were wondering.

    hahaha

    Stashiu3 (466cdf)

  194. Morning stashiu, yes they have put them in favor of rampant inequality, skydragon pen will not feed the demand.

    narciso (636179)

  195. narciso,

    But they will get a boost, sparking jobs and thus spending. If the tariff is short-term (which I expect it will be, relatively anyway), that boost will do a lot for that part of the country, spank China and impede their goal of dominating/destroying us, and can still be held in reserve to use again and again when we choose.

    Stashiu3 (466cdf)

  196. can the Texas GOP succeed in flushing the last bush turd down the toilet?

    that would be so beautiful for america

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  197. NOT the Onion..

    FRANKFORT, Ky. — A bill to make 18 the legal age for marriage in Kentucky has stalled in a Senate committee amid concerns about the rights of parents to allow children to wed at a younger age, according to several lawmakers.
    Known as the “child bride” bill, Senate Bill 48 was pulled off the agenda just hours before a scheduled vote by the Senate Judiciary Committee for the second time in two weeks.
    “SO disappointed! My SB 48 (outlaw child marriage) won’t be called for a vote,” sponsor Julie Raque Adams, a Louisville Republican, said in a Tweet early Thursday. “It is disgusting that lobbying organizations would embrace kids marrying adults. We see evidence of parents who are addicted, abusive, neglectful pushing their children into predatory arms. Appalling.”

    Ach! The Good Old Days..

    Ben burn (abbb2c)

  198. If the tariff is short-term (which I expect it will be,

    #MeToo. I agree with watsisname up the thread (Perry, are you a Trumpkin now?) who said that it’s for the benefit of the mid-terms in the Rust Belt.

    nk (dbc370)

  199. https://youtu.be/EsCyC1dZiN8

    Auld Lang syne

    Ben burn (abbb2c)

  200. Pronoun trouble I meant the profs. Alas el arbusto got himself on the wrong side of the Alamo, como. (How does that happen?

    narciso (636179)

  201. No cadet burn is a 65 year old Berkeley Chicago and tale grad

    narciso (636179)

  202. narciso,

    That may be your greatest link ever. I saved so many of those, lol.

    Stashiu3 (466cdf)

  203. I think he was 65 three years ago, narciso. But he claimed to be older than me and now won’t confirm it. He’s the one who made the assertion. I gave my age, but he won’t give his because he’s a coward.

    Stashiu3 (466cdf)

  204. Random statement not relating to anyone in particular: I am not a fan of psychologists. Most of them are full of themselves and aren’t nearly as smart as they believe themselves to be. They consistently go beyond their scope of practice. I’ve met a few who were good and knew their limitations, but they’re a clear minority.

    Stashiu3 (466cdf)

  205. I’m saying I’m older than Stash in maturity level…fortunately this is not difficult even for a teen.

    Ben burn (abbb2c)

  206. I’m saying I’m older than Stash in maturity level…fortunately this is not difficult even for a teen.
    Ben burn (abbb2c) — 3/3/2018 @ 7:54 am

    But that’s not what you said. You just said older. So, how old are you?

    Stashiu3 (466cdf)

  207. Older than you.

    Ben burn (abbb2c)

  208. I realize this is difficult for you to navigate, so lemme help ya. Look on your license or other ID and just give the month/year of birth. Math is hard for you, we get it. Or are you just being a coward still? If not, tell us how old you are. Again, I’m 56. You claimed you could be my sire. Tell us how that might be.

    hahaha

    Stashiu3 (466cdf)

  209. You’re 56?
    Chronologically? It’s wurst than I thought.

    Ben burn (abbb2c)

  210. Another distraction link that it seems nobody else can see? How did I know that was coming?

    C’mon Ben burn. It’s an easy question that you started. Answer it. Coward.

    Stashiu3 (466cdf)

  211. You’re 56?
    Chronologically? It’s wurst than I thought.
    Ben burn (abbb2c) — 3/3/2018 @ 8:10 am

    I answered it earlier. You also know I was in the Army for 24 years and am now retired. Got another ad hom? Or will you finally answer the question?

    Stashiu3 (466cdf)

  212. Give me your SS# first then I’ll tell you your mental age.

    Ben burn (abbb2c)

  213. I’m good at guessing weight too if you’re interested.

    Ben burn (abbb2c)

  214. Army? I’ll give you your ASVAB score right now. The minimum is 25 and I guess…30.

    Ben burn (abbb2c)

  215. Officers don’t get ASVAB scores, but since I started enlisted, mine was 121. Why would you need my SS# to figure out your own age? Creeper. And coward.

    Stashiu3 (466cdf)

  216. Here’s advice:

    Unwise to give out personal information.

    No charge for that service.

    Ben burn (abbb2c)

  217. Are you on the sexual offender list? Is that why you try to creep irrelevant details from people? I’m not your target demographic, so stop.

    Hey, is that why you won’t give your age, even though you started the question? It would explain a lot.

    Stashiu3 (466cdf)

  218. Stashiu is having fun with beenburned on a fine Saturday morning… http://youtu.be/ct5KfruUi2E

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  219. Ben burn,

    I have plenty of reason to limit personal information, even after all this time. If my ASVAB helps someone figure out where I am, well, they’re not very good at research.

    Stashiu3 (466cdf)

  220. It’s catnip Colonel. Just can’t resist sometimes. What’s really funny is he thinks he gets the better of the exchanges.

    hahaha

    Stashiu3 (466cdf)

  221. Yeah. That is hilarious..lol.

    Ben burn (abbb2c)

  222. I would bet $10 right now, payable to Patterico’s paypal, that Ben Burn cannot link where I started here (pretty much) and why I limit personal information (is that too much of a hint?)

    If he can do it within 10 minutes of now, I’ll pay and have P confirm.

    Stashiu3 (466cdf)

  223. I put 10 minutes because I have to start getting ready for a family thing. Unlike Ben Burn, I have one that I can interact with easily, and do so often because we’re all there for one another.

    Stashiu3 (466cdf)

  224. Another distraction link that it seems nobody else can see. Hmm… strange. And predictable.

    Stashiu3 (466cdf)

  225. Didn’t think so, hahaha. I’m out for a bit. Be well my friends… and Ben burn.

    Stashiu3 (466cdf)

  226. Ben your Wapo link insinuating that someone tangentally related to the Potus was profiting off of insider information has a glaring problem.

    third paragraph in –
    [Carl] Icahn had not actively traded any Manitowoc stock since January 2015, according to regulatory filings.

    I n January 2015 Manitowoc [the “steel related” company the Wapo insinuates is the source of all these insider riches] was trading between $76 and $86 a share.

    Icahn selling at $32 a share three weeks ago doesn’t make him rich. Makes him poorer actually.

    Or may be it’s a tax write off.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  227. Another beenburned toon… especially fitting… https://youtu.be/-VPtFzh6Ye4

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  228. You know those big fat flies with the metallic green carapice, they’re that color because they eat [edit] and read the Washington Post.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  229. If you haven’t already seen the Gary Oldman version (2011) of “Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy”, don’t! Unless you’re a Garry Oldman stan — he’s the only good thing in that waste of a good story. Watch the BBC mini-series with Alec Guinness instead, free on YouTube from a couple of channels.

    nk (dbc370)

  230. Yes they really can’t catch the ambiance of the era, in only the most superficial ways

    narciso (636179)

  231. wha?

    you don’t wanna see a tarted-up jennifer lawrence slut around on a movie screen this weekend?

    #metoo

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  232. Decent point tiger but waiting could have cost him more. His ties to Trump could he why he wanted to be below the 5% which requires disclosure. Uncanny timing if he didn’t telegraphed.

    https://www.google.com/amp/finbox.io/blog/why-carl-icahn-just-cut-his-mtw-stake-by-33/amp/

    Ben burn (abbb2c)

  233. To use happyfeet’s term, too tarted-up.

    nk (dbc370)

  234. Ranch white house I’m driving

    urbanleftbehind (e1b96a)

  235. No, maybe Jared coudnt take the news, although he should have waited until su down.

    urbanleftbehind (e1b96a)

  236. “I have never seen anything like this in my entire life … these people have done nothing to deserve this kind of treatment,” Levin said. He also broke down how leftists in the government and media have sought to undermine Trump since the beginning of his campaign.

    https://www.conservativereview.com/articles/mark-levin-attacks-trump-family-unparalleled-american-history/

    Ben burn (636263)

  237. I think I need a hankie

    Ben burn (636263)

  238. why is GOP Senate-slut Frank Lankford so eager to slop the dirty federal worker piggies????

    A key GOP senator appears poised to scrap President Donald Trump’s request to freeze federal employees’ pay in fiscal year 2019, one of many cost-cutting measures for federal agencies the president presented in his budget proposal
    that lawmakers have pushed back on.

    “I don’t think that gains us anything,” Sen. James Lankford said of Trump’s pay freeze proposal.

    that’s a good question huh

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  239. And so it goes.

    nk (dbc370)

  240. ugh that should be James not Frank

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  241. if Delta comes up in my airline results i just scroll past it Mr. nk cause they’re a dirty pussyhat airline

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  242. Does the DEC oversee the seen?

    A candidate in the race for a South Texas state House seat has reportedly received $87,500 in campaign donations — more than half of which is made up of deer semen.

    The Dallas News reported Thursday that Ana Lisa Garza, a district court judge running a primary challenge against eight-term Democrat Ryan Guillen, has received $51,000 in in-kind donations to her campaign, listed as individual donations of frozen deer semen straws.

    The containers are reportedly a common way for deer breeders in the state to donate to political campaigns. Garza’s campaign has valued the straws at $1,000 each.

    Ben burn (636263)

  243. JEEZ. FEC.

    Ben burn (636263)

  244. Poo-tee-weet, nk?

    Beldar (fa637a)

  245. I was being a mockingbird in this particular instance, Beldar. Imitating someone else’s chirp.

    nk (dbc370)

  246. Lankford is a big amnesty proponent, we dodged another one.

    narciso (d1f714)

  247. Protectionist advocate Wilbur Ross spent $1.99 on a can of chicken noodle soup at a 7-11?! He should listen to Patterico and shop at Costco.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  248. In other newswww.powerlineblog.com/archives/2018/03/dave-begley-at-the-grasz-investiture.php

    narciso (d1f714)

  249. I hear they’re very keen on import tariffs on Tralfamadore.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  250. Narco

    You show carelessness in your linkage acumen and I wonder about the efficacy of your points in that regard. It’s Trumpian..

    Ben burn (636263)

  251. Yeah, it is a rightist Onion. What a shame that Alou kid did not have the same baseball acumen as his cousins who only ride camels in parades held on January 6th.

    urbanleftbehind (e1b96a)

  252. Contrary to many here I often read untoward dalliance from the suspects per usual. Of course, I don’t often read with a mind of objective purity, but at least I read other sh’t.

    Ben burn (636263)

  253. Tralfamadore

    Grey’s or Reptilians?

    Ben burn (636263)

  254. Yet the United States does not control the global economy, and the tariffs, which Mr. Trump is expected to sign next week, could incite other countries to challenge it at the World Trade Organization. If the organization rules against the United States, that will test the Trump administration’s willingness to follow global trade rules.

    https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/03/02/us/politics/trump-tariffs-steel-aluminum.html?referer=

    The tariffs rest on a little-used legal provision that allows Mr. Trump to restrict imports to try to bolster the American industrial base in the interest of national security. That power will face scrutiny by the World Trade Organization but, perhaps more significant, could prompt other countries to follow suit in using national security as a reason to wall off their markets.

    Ben burn (636263)

  255. Halfway point…so far.

    Jump https://g.co/kgs/ipq3gG

    Ben burn (636263)

  256. It’s raining… http://youtu.be/WC19_-riICA

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  257. Your only able to run a trade deficit with Costco because you run a trade surplus with your employer. How many years could you spend more than you make before you filed bankruptcy? How many years can US run 800 billion trade deficit before it’s broke.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)


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