Patterico's Pontifications

2/23/2018

The Story of the Deputy Who Stood Outside the School Shooting Keeps Getting Worse

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 9:00 am

streiff told you last night about the Broward County sheriff’s deputy who stood outside and did nothing as children were being slaughtered inside. Here’s how the Washington Post reports it:

The armed school resource officer assigned to protect students at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School took a defensive position outside the school and did not enter the building while the shooter was killing students and teachers inside with an AR-15 assault-style rifle, Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel said Thursday.

But buried deeeep in the Washington Post article — 24 paragraphs in, in fact (I counted) — is this little nugget:

Peterson is mentioned as part of a 2016 social services agency investigation into Nikolas Cruz, the 19-year-old identified by police as the gunman. According to a Florida Department of Children and Families report detailing that investigation, Peterson was approached by investigators and “refused to share any information … regarding [an] incident that took place with” the teenager.

What?

I’m trying to think of a legitimate reason that a sheriff’s deputy would refuse to share information about a potentially threatening teenager with social services. The only thing that comes to mind is some kind of misguided concern about the privacy of reports relating to juveniles. I’m not an expert on the confidentiality of juvenile records in Florida, but it beggars belief that there was no legitimate route for this deputy to share information in such an investigation. The whole thing reminds me of the FBI, which took tips about the kid and refused to lift a finger to even find out who the kid was. The attitude is: not my problem.

It’s still not 100% clear what authorities could have done about this kid if they had done their jobs — but it is clear they didn’t do their jobs. The FBI might not have been able to stop anything — but they didn’t even bother to learn the kid’s identity. The Sheriff’s Department refused to share information with investigators, took dozens of reports, and did nothing. And then this deputy failed to act at the critical moment when he could have saved children’s lives.

Part of me says we should not stand in judgment of this deputy. But then I think back to that story of the coach, Aaron Feis, who threw himself in front of students at the cost of his own life. Imagine if, instead, Feis had held kids in front of himself, using them as human shields.

That is, in essence, what Deputy Scot Peterson did. He allowed kids to die so that he might live.

But sure, blame the NRA.

[Cross-posted at RedState and The Jury Talks Back.]

421 Responses to “The Story of the Deputy Who Stood Outside the School Shooting Keeps Getting Worse”

  1. Give the guy a break. He probably had bone spurs.

    Dave (cce960)

  2. It’s still not 100% clear what authorities could have done about this kid if they had done their jobs

    Run a sting operation on him, like they do with people contemplating acts of terrorism.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  3. In many news reports it says that Deputy Scot Peterson resigned. What he actually did was retire, which avoided the possibility of his being fired and losing his pension. He has 30 years on the force, and nine at the school.

    Nark Simone on WOR, called him Barney Fife.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  4. I’m trying to think of a legitimate reason that a sheriff’s deputy would refuse to share information about a potentially threatening teenager with social services.

    Most likely the Fifth amendment or soemthing close to it.

    He may have threatened to shoot Nikolas Cruz if he ever came into the school again, or something.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  5. One great error was YouTube taking down his comment before they knew who he was.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  6. Imagine being Scott Peterson and being exposed as a complete coward who refused to engage while kids were being slaughtered. Yes, he deserves our scorn, but I wonder what kind of fulfilling life he could possibly have now. Certainly he will have to move away from Florida, and I would frankly think that mental health officials might want to intervene here because this guys seems like a strong candidate for taking his own life in despair.

    JVW (42615e)

  7. He may have threatened to shoot Nikolas Cruz if he ever came into the school again, or something.

    In retrospect, that is an obviously empty threat.

    JVW (42615e)


  8. 1.Give the guy a break. He probably had bone spurs.


    Doubt it. Most police forces won’t allow people with bone spurs. They are extremely painful and can be almost crippling and would interfere with his ability to perform his duty and protect the people around him.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  9. Imagine being Scott Peterson and being exposed as a complete coward

    I’m sure he feels like “a great and brave soldier”.

    Donuts are almost as dangerous as vaginas, you know.

    Dave (cce960)

  10. I would frankly think that mental health officials might want to intervene here because this guys seems like a strong candidate for taking his own life in despair.

    You make it sound like it’s something we’d want to prevent.

    nk (dbc370)

  11. They are extremely painful and can be almost crippling

    So you’re saying someone with bonespurs couldn’t possibly compete in college athletics like baseball, tennis and squash?

    Interesting.

    Dave (cce960)

  12. In port Arthur and dunblane there was not this level of dereliction.

    narciso (d1f714)

  13. Any business that decides to no longer support the NRA because of leftist pressure will no longer have my support. I don’t use the Bank of Omaha, but I have used Enterprise for car rentals before. Neither will ever get my future business.

    NJRob (b00189)

  14. Fourteen students died,

    at Stoneman Douglas High,

    and they say he ran away.

    Branded!

    Marked with a coward’s shame.

    What do you do when you’re branded,

    Didn’t fight for his name.

    He had a gun,

    just one job to do.

    instead he ran away,

    didn’t fight for his school.

    Branded!

    Marked with a coward’s shame

    papertiger (c8116c)

  15. You make it sound like it’s something we’d want to prevent.

    I hear you, but I think that suicide would be the easy way out for him. His opportunity for death was that horrible day when he could have died a hero. As far as I am concerned, I would like him to live a long life reflecting on why he couldn’t rouse himself to action when the teenagers needed him the most.

    JVW (42615e)

  16. Look who is calling IP2P “unprofessional”

    http://illinoispaytoplay.com/2018/02/18/look-who-is-calling-ip2p-unprofessional/

    Truthbetold (60181b)

  17. Seriously, they should do ceremonial defrocking of this guy.

    Removing his tools and badge of office in front of the city for all to see.

    Not just to remind other self serving lifers cruising toward a retirement pension on the force, but also for Peterson’s state of mind and future health.
    So he can look his neighbor in the eye and say I was treated fair. I deserved that. Not be an object of ridicule for the remainder of his years.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  18. There was some deception in the accompanying headlines – i.e. “Three largest Car Rental Companies drop NRA” …uh no. Enterprise/Alamo/National are part of the same company. If this also included Hertz and AVIS/Budget (by fleet size), then yes but not true.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  19. The comments on the WaPo link are precious. Preciously precious in a precious liberal snowflake kind of precious. The few I read before my stomach gave up, anyway. “Who are we to judge?” “Why are you blaming the deputy when you should be blaming guns and Trump?”

    nk (dbc370)

  20. I’m trying to think of a legitimate reason that a sheriff’s deputy would refuse to share information about a potentially threatening teenager with social services.

    An explanation:

    I spent about 18 months in 2012, 2013 and 2014 investigating Broward and Miami-Dade school policies and how those policies transfer to law enforcement practices. My interest was initially accidental. I discovered an untold story of massive scale and consequence as a result of initial research into Trayvon Martin and his High School life.

    What I stumbled upon was a Broward County law enforcement system in a state of conflict. The Broward County School Board and District Superintendent, entered into a political agreement with Broward County Law enforcement officials to stop arresting students for crimes. The motive was simple. The school system administrators wanted to “improve their statistics” and gain state and federal grant money for improvements therein. So police officials, the very highest officials of law enforcement (Sheriff and Police Chiefs), entered into a plan.

    As soon as Miami-Dade began to receive the benefits (political and financial) from the scheme, Broward County joined on. The approach in Broward was identical as the approach in Miami-Dade. It’s important to remember, this was not an arbitrary change – this was a well-planned fundamental shift in the entire dynamic of how teenagers would be treated when they engaged in criminal conduct.

    There’s more, keep reading at the link.

    TheBas (3bcea0)


  21. So you’re saying someone with bonespurs couldn’t possibly compete in college athletics like baseball, tennis and squash?

    Interesting.
    Dave (cce960) — 2/23/2018 @ 9:39 am


    No, that’s not what I’m sayin, Dave why are you lying? I said that most police forces won’t take people with bone spurs because they can interfere with their ability to perform their duty. If someone with bone spurs wants to try and compete in sports it’s up to him but his partner won’t die because of it. Why on earth are you so worried about bone spurs and sports? Playing squash is not a matter of life and death is it? You’re being ridiculous. Police also won’t take persons who are color blind can they compete in squash?

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  22. A long time ago, I saw a TV interview of Mike Hoare. (If you don’t know who he is, that’s your problem.) When asked why he retired from the mercenary business, he said: “My legs. If a soldier can’t run, he’s dead.”

    nk (dbc370)

  23. It’s the reason Babe Ruth retired too.

    nk (dbc370)

  24. NJRob, I’m with you and I always used Enterprise, but no more.


    The World-Herald quoted Rod Moeller, director of government affairs for the Nebraska Firearms Owners Association, saying that the group will “be giving strong consideration to moving their accounts to a bank that hasn’t bowed to political pressure.”

    I’m not an NRA member. But I look forward to not renting from Enterprise in response to this decision. @enterprisecares https://t.co/1rkXYPPtzu
    — Ben Shapiro (@benshapiro) February 23, 2018

    *whew* Close call. Imagine getting the business of millions of law abiding citizens instead of the momentary approval of an anonymous twitter account. You really dodged that … well. You know. https://t.co/iokqRR1nNW
    — Caleb Howe (@CalebHowe) February 23, 2018

    Just added @enterprisecares to the never again list. https://t.co/dh9gYJnHk4
    — Sean Davis (@seanmdav) February 23, 2018

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  25. Progressives: You righties don’t need your guns for self-defense because law enforcement will protect you from danger.

    Also progressives: Who are you to judge law enforcement for not wanting to engage an armed shooter?

    JVW (42615e)

  26. Sometimes, Patrick, you’re able to say it better than I ever could.

    MyShariaMoor (df2b50)

  27. There’s more, keep reading at the link.
    TheBas (3bcea0) — 2/23/2018 @ 9:53 am

    I’m too scared to. Jesus.

    MyShariaMoor (df2b50)

  28. ▪ Nov. 29, 2017: The Palm Beach County family that took in Cruz after the death of his mother calls the Palm Beach Sheriff’s Office to report a fight between him and their son, 22. A member of the family says that Cruz had threatened to “get his gun and come back” and that he has “put the gun to others’ heads in the past.” The family does not want him arrested once he calms down.
    http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article201636649.html

    Neo (d1c681)

  29. Here’s what they could have done: arrested him for the violent crimes he committed and/or the threats he made, and negotiated a probation where he gave up his weapons and the legal right to purchase them. Even a short term institutionalization related to his self-harming video and related investigation of his mental disturbance, would have restricted his right to purchase a weapon.

    Avoiding loss of money seems to have been one perverse incentive for not dealing with his never-ending stream of violent outbursts, attacks and harassment of others, his continual promises of murder and wish for a career of mass murder or extinction through it, and his display of means to achieve it.

    Mental illness and violence are connected. In his case this was beyond all doubt or rational measure the case, and he was promising to escalate.

    What could they have done? The obvious – block his right to legally purchase weapons ASAP.

    This country has no means to deal with the mentally ill except to throw them in jail, or stuff them in a hospital for a few days, only to be dumped out as soon as possible, and that is wrong. But if that’s the only hammer, swing it.

    SarahW (3164f0)

  30. The comments on the WaPo link are precious. Preciously precious in a precious liberal snowflake kind of precious. The few I read before my stomach gave up, anyway. “Who are we to judge?”

    The same sort of people who don’t want to judge the deputy are the same sort of people who didn’t want to judge Cruz after each of the many incidents preceding the massacre.

    random viking (6a54c2)

  31. Republic of Florida was a troll, on the other hand, why hasnt this more fearsome group 1) garner greater scrutiny and 2) get taken to task for letting in a Fernandez?

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  32. Not sure of accuracy, as I haven’t had the time to research yet, but this is an in testing thread.

    If accurate, it explains a lot.

    OneOfSix (faa1f7)

  33. Now, imagine that Aaron Feis had Scot Peterson’s gun.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  34. “He was tested under fire, and it wasn’t a good result. I’d rather have somebody that loves their students and wants to protect their students then somebody standing outside that doesn’t know anybody and doesn’t know the students, and frankly, for whatever reason, decided not to go in, even though he heard lots of shots being fired inside.”

    – President Trump at CPAC

    papertiger (c8116c)

  35. What he actually did was retire, which avoided the possibility of his being fired and losing his pension.

    Not entirely clear. He is still being investigated and if they charge him with a crime while on duty, the resignation won’t help.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  36. This is a hard bitter pill to swallow.

    But, from my 40 years of contact with law enforcement, my view is that there are usually reasons why particular deputies/officers are assigned to positions like “School Resource Officer”.

    I think his personnel file might be revealing with regard to understanding why he froze.

    Its brings back bad memories of Columbine where there was a significant passage of time between when officers first arrived on the scene, and waited for SWAT to arrive before police entered the school building. The practice then was to treat situations like that as “hostage” situations with barricaded suspects. It led to training in a whole different dynamic — the “active shooter” scenario.

    So the idea of just stationing a police officer on school campuses isn’t going to solve every problem. Its going to be a dumping ground for officers who aren’t performing adequately in street patrol.

    The school district where I grew up and went to school had its own legally established Security Force, and all officers were POST certified, and sworn peace officers under California law. You grew up knowing who they were because over the course of your time in the school district you met all of them multiple times. They were on and around campuses every day, they provided security at sporting events and other school activities, etc. Some spent their entire career there, while others moved on to regular police departments.

    The gov’t wastes billions of dollars every year on idiotic stuff. I’d like to see Congress simply work with Police Chiefs and Sheriffs to establish a template for stand-alone security departments for school districts nationwide, and fund their operations through the DOE. It wouldn’t be an option for a district to have one — if they want federal money to support the educational mission, they must have a security department, and hire full time POST certified officers who are sworn peace officers with power to arrest, and use lethal force if necessary.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  37. The sheriff’s deputy who failed to engage the shooter at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School “believed he did a good job” because he called in the location of the massacre and gave a description of the shooter, a top union official said Thursday.

    https://nypost.com/2018/02/22/deputy-who-didnt-stop-florida-shooting-thinks-he-did-a-good-job/

    “I’m not a security guard. I’m a security monitor. I just report when there’s a shooting.(pause) There’s a shooting.” – Deputy Scot Peterson, February 14, 2018
    – susandiane0351 [in the comments]

    papertiger (c8116c)

  38. Peterson had been the resource officer at Douglas High School since 2009 and made a base annual salary of $75,673.72 as of 2016, according to sheriff’s office records cited by the Sun-Sentinel newspaper.

    That base salary, however, doesn’t include longevity and first-responder bonuses that probably brought Peterson’s non-overtime pay closer to $80,000, according to Bell.

    Peterson’s pension will be 75 percent of the average of his top five earning years while on the job, the union head said.

    Right out of the gate, “first-responders bonuses” is an unfortunate term of art.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  39. swc #38

    Could it be Peterson was working under the old paradyme – treating it like a hostage situation?

    Perhaps he had never been trained for the new reality, and had been hiding under a rock since the 90’s.

    Missed the gay night club shooting in the newspapers?

    papertiger (c8116c)

  40. This is an extensive tweet story of alleged corruption in the Miami school police and Broward county sheriff’s Dept. I hope we hear more about it. https://mobile.twitter.com/Phil_Johnson_/timelines/967041121418276864

    ManlyDad (bec1ce)

  41. I’m very wary of anything that emanates (as that tweet thread does) from “Conservative Treehouse.”

    Patterico (97e6be)

  42. This fear of engagement is common and concerning. Forgetting one chose this career as Thin Red Line for.public safety make a it even more heinous. An armed civilian who is deaf to the call would still be egregiuos.

    Ben burn (7d2e65)

  43. Gawd, for an edit button..

    Ben burn (7d2e65)

  44. Probably part of the school district’s push to reduce crime by relabeling it as pranks or something. You can barely tell parents what the kid’s grades are these days, so I’m not surprised.

    Sheriff Israel is a creep. “Give teachers more money!” was one answer to a question about his failures. What is he running for?

    Patricia (3363ec)

  45. Gates pleaded guilty to one count of conspiracy against the United States and one count of making a false statement. Both counts were issued in a new superseding information on Friday.

    Is public service an oxymoron?

    Ben burn (7d2e65)

  46. Progressives: You righties don’t need your guns for self-defense because law enforcement will protect you from danger.

    LE will stay home and protect family first when SHTF.

    Ben burn (7d2e65)

  47. The left showing off knowledge of firearms:

    “MSNBC
    @MSNBC
    Lawrence: A bullet fired from an AR-15 travels 3x faster than one from a handgun.

    And yet the president and the NRA think giving teachers guns will stop a school shooter “

    — –

    Joyce Carol Oates
    @JoyceCarolOates
    how could a single school guard, armed with a conventional weapon, expect to confront & “kill” an individual w/ AK-15 who has methodically plotted an attack? isn’t this demanding of the guard that he sacrifice his life? would NRA pay his widow a bonus?

    Alex Sroka
    @alex_sroka
    Replying to @JoyceCarolOates
    “Conventional weapon”? Was the shooter armed with a nuclear device?

    harkin (8256c3)

  48. 48, in 2005 New Orleans that was considered cowardly, but now that is considered acceptable, hmmm…

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  49. Harkin

    Most level one vests protect up to .44 mag. They won’t stop .223 without additional plates. Even then, iffy.

    Ben burn (7d2e65)

  50. In fact they slow down and fragment more rapidly with level 1 creating more damage than through and through.

    Ben burn (7d2e65)

  51. 51

    The urban rumor is keep yourself safe has overtaken them

    Ben burn (7d2e65)

  52. Plus, harkin, we have the CNN media rallying “the children”.
    http://anodtothegods.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/tumblr_p4kwg0ScxG1qhutmmo1_500.jpg

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  53. Level II..corrected

    Ben burn (7d2e65)

  54. Well, what if this group suddenly had an about face and said “cool, Mr. President, I look forward to our firearms training!”.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  55. 46 — assuming there is some truth to the claim, the purpose would be simply to increase attendance numbers for state and federal funding purposes. A high school age student who is a registered student, but sits in a jail cell rather than a classroom, costs the district money in the form of daily attendance payments. This is what “truant” officers used to be for — to make sure kids were on the school grounds and not absent — not so much so that they would learn, but so that the attendance figures were as high as possible since many sources of funding are made on a per student basis. High truancy or dropout rates hurt budgets.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  56. LAUSD, for all its faults, has had an independent police force for decades. And they get tested from time to time by gangs, if not by active shooters. I assume that they use the same active shooter protocol as LAPD, which is first armed responder waits for second armed responder, then they go in. Apparently 2 on 1 is far better odds than 1 on 1 and getting yourself killed doesn’t help anyone.

    Here is the film they show students. It’s quite well done. It’s also quite graphic.

    https://lausd.wistia.com/medias/yds4cyxfoz

    Kevin M (752a26)

  57. Gov. Scott, if he wishes to preserve his future political viability, needs to kick this POS to the curb before the end-of-business TODAY, and appoint an Interim Sheriff who doesn’t suffer from Lion-Fantasies.

    askeptic (340f22)

  58. This topic is not an easy one to answer. Many police officers are willing to risk their lives to protect others. But are they required to do so? Are police officers are expected to die like the first wave at Omaha Beach?

    I wish the officer would have tried to subdue the shooter. This is not a good way to end a 30-year career in law enforcement. But his 30 years in law enforcement may have provided him with the belief that taking action would have adverse consequences besides that of his own death.

    AZ Bob (f60c80)

  59. Uh huh. Cops are paramilitary.

    Ben burn (7d2e65)

  60. taking action would have adverse consequences besides that of his own death.

    Like what? Annoy the shooter?

    Rational Lies.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  61. Police have an individual duty to protect the public. It’s their one job. No, they don’t have to die, but they might. Most of the soldiers that landed at Omaha Beach survived. Even some in the first wave.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  62. Of the many tragic images to emerge from Ferguson, Missouri, over the weekend, one of the most disturbing—and increasingly common—was the sight of a military vehicle patrolling suburban streets. Protesters outraged by the police killing of 18-year-old Ferguson resident Michael Brown were met by police in riot gear, police carrying assault rifles, and police aboard a LENCO BearCat, a type of military armored vehicle.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.citylab.com/amp/article/375855/

    Ben burn (7d2e65)

  63. I’m waiting for the roll- out of 250 MRAPS given to local LE as surplus from A$$ghanistan. The other 750 we paid Pakistanis to dismantle.

    Ben burn (7d2e65)

  64. Apparently there are reports surfacing that other BC officers didn’t ‘go in’ as well– as reported by the respected-by-our-host-Jake Tapper:

    Coral Springs police upset at some Broward deputies for not entering school

    By Jake Tapper Anchor and Chief Washington Correspondent

    (CNN) — When Coral Springs police officers arrived at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, on February 14 in the midst of the school shooting crisis, many officers were surprised to find not only that Broward County Sheriff’s Deputy Scot Peterson, the armed school resource officer, had not entered the building, but that three other Broward County Sheriff’s deputies were also outside the school and had not entered, Coral Springs sources tell CNN. The deputies had their pistols drawn and were behind their vehicles, the sources said, and not one of them had gone into the school.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  65. And they too were protecting the public. Those peaceful protests can get out of hand

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NM8Y6uPH-R4

    Kevin M (752a26)

  66. Clearly the Pentagon is rolling in our dough.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  67. OPD

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  68. Yeah, what’s the Pentagon doing with all that money when we could be handing out crack pipes to the homeless?

    Kevin M (752a26)

  69. I’m talking Pentagon Waste.

    Is that bad?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  70. Shirley you’re not suggesting we give them a pass?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  71. Well duh, they want that gig for themselves, especially if the RIFs of the sort promised by Erskine-Bowles came back in vogue.

    urbanleftbehind (7df0e2)

  72. So 4 Sheriff Clowns from Broward waited outside till the smoke cleared.

    … and for those in the know, Scott Israel packed the Department with cronies.

    But hey Democrats!

    Shep's Social Circle (71f7f0)

  73. Sometimes I’ll say something so stupid in comment that I’ll flee the responses for fear to look at replies.

    But I know for a fact if I were armed in that situation I’m going in that school. Not for fear of humiliation from not going in, but rather because of the security of having the gun in pocket.
    That security coupled with an unwillingness to stand by while others are being hurt would overwhelm consideration of safety.

    Even being this long in the tooth the thought of personal injury is an abstract. The though of it doesn’t enter my thinking.
    Been stupid that way all my life.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  74. This topic is not an easy one to answer. Many police officers are willing to risk their lives to protect others. But are they required to do so? Are police officers are expected to die like the first wave at Omaha Beach?

    I wish the officer would have tried to subdue the shooter. This is not a good way to end a 30-year career in law enforcement. But his 30 years in law enforcement may have provided him with the belief that taking action would have adverse consequences besides that of his own death.

    AZ Bob (f60c80) — 2/23/2018 @ 1:45 pm

    This topic is very easy to answer: he was given a gun for a reason. If he was NOT expected to protect and serve, then why give him a gun? Scot Peterson knew what he signed up for, why he was paid, why he was armed. If he didn’t want the responsibility, he could resign and go into a less risky line of work. (Police do not even crack the top 10 most dangerous professions, btw.)

    I have absolutely no doubt, none whatsoever, that most people in that situation – armed and in a position to help – would have tried to stop the shooter.

    Lenny (5ea732)

  75. Amazon.com is becoming so pervasive I expect eventually it will buy the Pentagon ala BRAWNDO in movie Idiocracy.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  76. I have absolutely no doubt, none whatsoever, that most people in that situation – armed and in a position to help – would have tried to stop the shooter.

    Especially if there was 4 of them, and they were TRAINED to stop shooters.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  77. Gates is still in a box. He’s pleading guilty to get his 20 year threat reduced to 4-5 probably understanding even a pardon could result in state prison.

    Manafort blows my mind. He’s nearly 70 so 20 is a life sentence. Yet he plays bail games Instead of cooperating. Maybe he sees a firing squad.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  78. Patterico, share your wary eye about Conservative Treehouse. However, it appears to be true. Here, for example, is an article from 2017 about the Broward County School District. Check this paragraph:

    “In 2011-12, Broward County officers made 1,062 school-related arrests. That dropped to 392 in 2015-16, putting the rate of school-related arrests among the lowest in the state.

    School district officials say the strategy allowed schools to respond more constructively to normal teenage behavior, without hurting police ability to respond to serious crime.

    “We’re not compromising school safety. We’re really saving the lives of kids,” said Michaelle Valbrun-Pope, executive director of Student Support Initiatives for Broward County Public Schools.”

    https://www.publicsource.org/these-districts-fought-the-school-to-prison-pipeline-can-pittsburgh-learn-their-lessons/

    Doug (a65bac)

  79. Kevin, its not that they were “trained” to stop shooters. It was their sworn duty, they were being paid by the citizens to protect them, and in the moment of truth 4 deputies hid while kids were being murdered feet away. Why the Sheriff hasn’t done the honorable thing and resigned is beyond me.

    pete (a65bac)

  80. I can’t believe what I’m reading..Police policy on use of firearms is called Deadly Force.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  81. They don’t shoot that hogleg out of the perps hand on a trickster. They shoot to kill.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  82. @85

    I’m curious why you think this is a problem.

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  83. Mysterioso why Veterans don’t like idea of arming teachers. Puzzling.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  84. I’m a veteran and I have no problem with allowing teachers who qualify to be armed. I qualify and I have a CCP and always wear a side arm.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  85. Daily dose of irony

    CPAC, where this speech takes place:

    http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/375240-trump-blasts-gun-free-zones-at-schools-in-cpac-speech
    is a gun-free zone.

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  86. http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/21714

    Gun control has been proven to be a dismal failure in Israel. The Israeli Arab communities are rife with illegal weapons, with some police estimates putting the number of unlicensed weapons in the Arab sector as high as 500,000. Think about that for a second: The most heavily guarded borders in the world and a highly professional Shin Bet are still not enough to prevent criminals from obtaining illegal firearms.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  87. Being the default wedding reception/class reunion hangout for Prince George County, you know they don’t play around.

    urbanleftbehind (b4183d)

  88. You make it sound like it’s something we’d want to prevent.

    nk (dbc370) — 2/23/2018 @ 9:34 am

    Wait at least four minutes before you bust the door down.

    You know, comics talk about how long five minutes is. They also talk about dying on stage. This guy was definitely an open miker.

    Pinandpuller (997a39)

  89. I hear you, but I think that suicide would be the easy way out for him. His opportunity for death was that horrible day when he could have died a hero. As far as I am concerned, I would like him to live a long life reflecting on why he couldn’t rouse himself to action when the teenagers needed him the most.

    JVW (42615e) — 2/23/2018 @ 9:45 am

    Better he eat a gun than drive the wrong way on the interstate in an alcoholic haze.

    Pinandpuller (997a39)

  90. Narciso, in L.A. private schools they do bother you, even if you’re the 6’5″ 300lb unicorn of fa….

    urbanleftbehind (b4183d)

  91. When seconds are vital, the police are minutes away – and they’re staying there.

    Fred Z (05d938)


  92. 92.Daily dose of irony

    CPAC, where this speech takes place is a gun-free zone.
    Davethulhu (fab944) — 2/23/2018 @ 4:28 pm


    Are you saying CPAC the organization is gun free or are you saying the hotel where they held the conference is gun free? Citation please.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  93. A long time ago, I saw a TV interview of Mike Hoare. (If you don’t know who he is, that’s your problem.) When asked why he retired from the mercenary business, he said: “My legs. If a soldier can’t run, he’s dead.”

    nk (dbc370) — 2/23/2018 @ 10:00 am

    Me substitute teaching PE at 33 was a huge wake up call. And those kids are a bunch of animals, with more tattoos and piercings than Bonnaroo.

    Pinandpuller (997a39)

  94. Its what passes foe cle Er, rev, the entire state is a gun free zonr

    narciso (d1f714)

  95. Thing is, if what papertiger reported in his comment 39 is accurate, to wit

    “I’m not a security guard. I’m a security monitor. I just report when there’s a shooting.(pause) There’s a shooting.” – Deputy Scot Peterson, February 14, 2018
    – susandiane0351 [in the comments]

    this fat pig will not suffer any pangs of remorse. He is already justifying himself. He will continue to wallow, piggishly, in his retirement trough on his government pension check, happy and content as any other fat pig in his wallow.

    nk (dbc370)

  96. The conference is gun free:

    https://i.redd.it/04tan5cy80i01.jpg

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  97. Ya gotta throw a bone to the Frum wing. Gotta pay some of the speakers.

    urbanleftbehind (b4183d)

  98. The same sort of people who don’t want to judge the deputy are the same sort of people who didn’t want to judge Cruz after each of the many incidents preceding the massacre.

    random viking (6a54c2) — 2/23/2018 @ 11:13 am

    They didn’t mind judging George “You Can’t Flim Flam the Zim Zam” Zimmerman. The state of Florida needs to start a leper colony on an island for social media pariahs.

    Pinandpuller (997a39)

  99. Just a reminder that the Supreme Court has ruled the police do not have a duty to protect you. Yet these clowns want to take away our ability to protect ourselves.

    Fools and cowards the lot of them.

    NJRob (f5348f)

  100. Unfortunately that sign does not state it’s a CPAC rule. It could be a county law (they are near DC) or a hotel requirement. That sign merely points out what you claimed-that the conference was gun free, not who made it so. I need an actual citation not an abstract accusation from a hostile observer. Sorry, try again.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  101. @78. Cronies like… Roger Stone.

    It’s an interesting article which doesn’t speak well of local politics in Florida.

    http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/fl-roger-stone-sheriff-israel-20140809…

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  102. Bad link DC but when is Dr. EVIL going to plead guilty?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  103. 48, in 2005 New Orleans that was considered cowardly, but now that is considered acceptable, hmmm…

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb) — 2/23/2018 @ 12:37 pm

    They were cowardly in their chickensh*t gun confiscation.

    Pinandpuller (997a39)

  104. Apologies for 105 in moderation, P– likely a term in the story text or something. But it is an interesting article about the landscape of local politics in Florida and characters it attracts.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  105. 110

    A lot of the gun confiscation was contractors from..
    now Academi.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  106. I remember some Thor looking dude giving the local constab the business saying “you’re just mad I got bigger guns than you got”.

    urbanleftbehind (b4183d)

  107. “We’re not compromising school safety. We’re really saving the lives of kids,” said Michaelle Valbrun-Pope, executive director of Student Support Initiatives for Broward County Public Schools.”

    Doug (a65bac) — 2/23/2018 @ 3:47 pm

    Juking the Stats.

    Pinandpuller (997a39)

  108. @110. Try it w/this, Ben– it’s just an interesting story:

    http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/fl-roger-stone-sheriff-israel-20140809-story.html

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  109. Prosecutors say Manafort orchestrated a group of former European politicians, called the “Hapsburg group,” to pose as independent voices. Yet they covertly pushed positions favorable to Ukraine as paid lobbyists. Manafort used offshore accounts to pay the former politicians 2 million euros.
    Manafort also allegedly used $4 million from an offshore account to fund a report on the trial of a political opponent jailed by his clients. A lawyer involved in the report — Alex van der Zwaan — pleaded guilty to lying to investigators earlier this week.
    The new charges, which sweep up some information Gates has conceded to investigators and other information in charges filed Thursday in Virginia federal court, include money laundering, foreign lobbying violations and making false statements.

    https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/23/politics/manafort-mueller/

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  110. Katrina House to House Gun Grabbers with Thor Looking Guy

    Pinandpuller (997a39)

  111. They’re turning into the new Donner Party DC.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  112. Manafort is taking DEPENDS donations.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  113. I’m a veteran and I have no problem with allowing teachers who qualify to be armed. I qualify and I have a CCP and always wear a side arm.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7) — 2/23/2018 @ 4:23 pm

    I tried to come up with one of those “Spectacles, testicles…” things.

    What do you think about,”Sunglasses, Carry Permit, EDC and Multi-tool?”

    Pinandpuller (997a39)

  114. Yes he was the son in law of khaan!!! So Schroeder went to work straight for Gazprom no questions ask.

    narciso (d1f714)


  115. What do you think about,”Sunglasses, Carry Permit, EDC and Multi-tool?”


    Well, Pinandpuller you know I wear oxygen while awaiting my lung transplant so how about this:

    My a$$ and my gas, my fun and my gun?

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  116. At least other cops, even off duty, performed according to their oath to serve. Off-Duty Cop Who Was At FL School Ran Toward Gunfire While Others Cowered–https://www.redstate.com/jenvanlaar/2018/02/23/watch-off-duty-cop-fl-school-ran-toward-gunfire-others-cowered/

    pete (a65bac)

  117. Best to remember that one of Scott Israel’s predecessors was a man whose main contribution to law enforcement was the TV show COPS.

    Kishnevi (a21714)

  118. CPAC, where this speech takes place:
    is a gun-free zone.

    Davethulhu (fab944) — 2/23/2018 @ 4:28 pm

    That depends on what you mean by gun free zone. The zone around Trump isn’t gun free. It’s restrictive.

    Buffalo Wild Wings says you can’t bring guns in there. Is it a gun free zone? Well, cops can, even though some were kicked out by an overly enthusiastic manager. I bet criminals bring guns into BWW’s as well. But I think just calling something a gun free zone slides the odds in the criminal’s favor.

    Does CPAC have crack security who are capable and willing to protect the people there from threats? Short of The Boondock Saints showing up, can conservative people subcontract their security without being hypocrites?

    Most average ordinary people like me and Hoagie carry because we want to be responsible, at least in part, for our own safety and possibly of others. We follow the law and only go where we are welcome. Sometimes we weigh safety and convenience and go to the airport without our guns and sometimes we just stay home.

    Pinandpuller (997a39)

  119. The story does indeed get worse:

    When Coral Springs police officers arrived at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, on February 14 in the midst of the school shooting crisis, many officers were surprised to find not only that Broward County Sheriff’s Deputy Scot Peterson, the armed school resource officer, had not entered the building, but that three other Broward County Sheriff’s deputies were also outside the school and had not entered, Coral Springs sources tell CNN. The deputies had their pistols drawn and were behind their vehicles, the sources said, and not one of them had gone into the school.

    With direction from the Broward deputies who were outside, Coral Springs police soon entered the building where the shooter was. New Broward County Sheriff’s deputies arrived on the scene, and two of those deputies and an officer from Sunrise, Florida, joined the Coral Springs police as they went into the building.

    Some Coral Springs police were stunned and upset that the four original Broward County Sheriff’s deputies who were first on the scene did not appear to join them as they entered the school, Coral Springs sources tell CNN. It’s unclear whether the shooter was still in the building when they arrived.

    All four should be fired. Every parent should sue the Broward County and the Sheriff’s Dept.

    Dana (023079)

  120. @126. Yes but the last person you’d expect to be mixed up w/Sheriff Israel is Roger Stone. It’s just a peculiar ‘relationship.’ But then, it’s local Florida politics.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  121. He had ties to Randico, who’s one of the strangest cats on the planet.

    narciso (d1f714)


  122. We follow the law and only go where we are welcome. Sometimes we weigh safety and convenience and go to the airport without our guns and sometimes we just stay home.


    That’s a: Yeah, but, Pinandpuller. I always wear my gun unless it is legally prohibited, ie federal buildings etc. If a restaurant has a gun free policy I still wear my gun. If they want to throw me out they’re welcome to but I have a lawful permit so I’ll wear my gun, period. I’ve never been thrown out but that’s because they probably don’t know I’m carrying. It’s called a concealed permit for a reason.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  123. They should change the name to Broward Coward Sheriff’s Department.

    nk (dbc370)

  124. Pinandpuller. I always wear my gun unless it is legally prohibited, ie federal buildings etc. If a restaurant has a gun free policy I still wear my gun. If they want to throw me out they’re welcome to but I have a lawful permit so I’ll wear my gun, period. I’ve never been thrown out but that’s because they probably don’t know I’m carrying. It’s called a concealed permit for a reason.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7) — 2/23/2018 @ 6:13 pm

    Your state law may be a little different. Some places signs have force of law and some don’t. Some have to follow a standard. They can’t be drawn like a homeless guy begging for money. Some places all they can do is ask you to leave or tresspass you after they find out you are carrying if you don’t leave.

    Pinandpuller (997a39)

  125. Dana@128
    No they should not.

    I am being totally selfish in saying that. I’m a Broward County taxpayer, so that money would come out of my pocket.

    Kishnevi (a21714)

  126. BTW, off topic response to an off topic comment by urban in a different thread yesterday

    There are now plenty of Dunkin Donuts in SoFla.

    Kishnevi (a21714)

  127. Any establishment can ask a person to leave for any reasonable reason and should be. I was in the restaurant business so I know what unruly customers can do, believe me. I’m just saying a request by a store for you or me is just that, a request. They can ask us to leave but they can’t arrest us because we don’t like their request any more than we can force them to allow our gun. And that’s as it should be. Frankly, I don’t even look for a “gun free” sign because I know what are legally gun free zones where I would be in trouble and I don’t go there. I have so many firearms in different shapes and sizes and holsters to accommodate them that I can conceal and no one ever knows. But you can rest assured nobody is walking into a Luby’s where my wife and I are eating and killing us without a big f’in firefight. Regardless of what Luby’s wants. Hoagie is nobody’s victim!

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  128. I think we are coming to the point of class of 1999, which was i thought was satirical when it cams out in 1994 (musing military androids a teachers)

    narciso (d1f714)

  129. Pete said

    “Why the Sheriff hasn’t done the honorable thing and resigned is beyond me.”

    Because he’s not an honorable man?

    Bang Gunley (5a4596)

  130. With teleconferencing, is there really any need for students to actually go to a school? Every student at my daughter’s schools has been issued a computer since 6th grade. Macs in middle school; Chromebooks in high school. The teachers would have an array of screens so they could see, and interact with, all the students during class. Class scheduling and attendance procedures would remain the same. Chewing gum during class optional.

    nk (dbc370)

  131. Type broward coward in Google and hit search. Or just click here.

    nk (dbc370)

  132. Frontrunner for the movie role: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Leibman

    urbanleftbehind (b4183d)

  133. Yes, I’m glad you caught that, Kishnevi.

    Ok, never mind the civil suit. How about indicting the sheriff and his deputies as accomplices before and during the fact?

    nk (dbc370)

  134. Broward County ETA

    I want to tell you all the story bout the Broward County ETA

    There were four deputies at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High

    Well the deputies came back that afternoon and didn’t fire a single shot

    Sheriff said, “Hey, I got a memo here from the last president/Russianbot

    Well the memo said Israel, your minority arrests are way too high

    It’s reported you’ve been hassling brothers going around running wild

    And we don’t believe you’re locking nearly enough crackers away (if you ask me)

    And it was signed by the secretary United States DOE

    Well it happened CNN it had a show and they let Jake Tapper host

    And to no one’s surprise Marco Rubio looked like he’d seen a ghost

    And as soon as Dana Loesh spoke I remember what she had to say

    She said yeah right Democrats you don’t want to take my guns away

    Well there’s Sheriff Israel sitting there and seven times he’s run away from CAIR

    And South Florida mosques sure get a lot of gun training while he’s there

    You show us all the drain your training budget’s going down

    And shouldn’t Scott Peterson be told to shoot till he’s out of rounds

    Well Mr Beigal couldn’t make it he stayed till his students were safely out of gym

    And then you have the nerve to say as a gun owner I’m not fit

    Well this is just a “Gun Free Zone” and you’re all Broward County Hypocrites

    No I wouldn’t put you on it really happened that way

    The day conservatives socked it to the Broward County ETA

    The day conservatives socked it to the Broward County ETA

    Pinandpuller (997a39)

  135. Ot, they Picked jay hernandez last in suicide squad, as the new magnum pi

    http://booktionary.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/interview-peter-higgins-author-of.html

    narciso (d1f714)

  136. Anyone know what channel The Addiction Network is on Direct TV?

    Pinandpuller (997a39)

  137. I give him props for landing the blond chick from Saturday morning’s Hang Time

    urbanleftbehind (b4183d)

  138. Yet these clowns want to take away our ability to protect ourselves.

    And this ought to be the counter-message. The teachers and staff were legally disarmed. They were supposed to wait for the police. The police were outside, hiding, waiting for the shooter to run out of bullets, or victims.

    The right to defend oneself is a fundamental right, and after this display of cowardice the state has no moral right whatsoever to say otherwise.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  139. My a$$ and my gas, my fun and my gun?

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7) — 2/23/2018 @ 5:33 pm

    Great personalization lol.

    Pinandpuller (997a39)

  140. All the Broward county donut shops ought to refuse service to sheriff deputies until the sheriff resigns.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  141. Hoagie is nobody’s victim!

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7) — 2/23/2018 @ 6:31 pm

    Buffalo Wild Wings is totally overrated anyway.

    Pinandpuller (997a39)

  142. nk asked,

    With teleconferencing, is there really any need for students to actually go to a school?

    I can’t speak for anyone else’s mom, but mine absolutely, positively wanted me out of the house during school hours during the school year. If I learned something in the process, she was well pleased. If I’d learned twice as much while still in the house, she wouldn’t have been.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  143. Yes, there is that. Your personal situation aside, Beldar, for most students public schools are primarily baby-sitting services, with the principal goal to keep the kids occupied and out of trouble. For many Chicago kids, also the only providers of two square meals, breakfast and lunch, a day.

    nk (dbc370)

  144. The easy comparison here is between the officers of the Broward County Sheriff’s Department and those of the Capitol Police who were at the GOP baseball practice. They ran to the sound of fire, instead of away from it. Even with only their handguns, they returned fire to keep the shooter occupied and off-balance, and eventually to allow other officers to flank and finish him. They saved lives, and they’ve been justly recognized and rewarded as the heroes they confirmed themselves to be. With these deputies, by contrast, one might be able to forgive a lack of heroism, were that all that this was; but they were, as best as I can tell, incompetent as well as un-heroic.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  145. What is the worst thing that can happen to someone with a gun? That would be having it taken from them by the aggressor. That can happen many ways. One way is that the aggressor is willing to advance but the person pointing the gun in self defense is not willing to pull the trigger. Now you have the gun in the hands of the bad guy. Putting pistol packing teachers in the classroom is no panacea. Another problem is when the gun is misplaced. Of course, police have been known to misplace their firearms from time to time.

    AZ Bob (f60c80)

  146. From beginning to end — from having all the warning signs and not doing anything about it to the deputies hiding instead of going in — it’s shaping more and more like a total failure of the local authorities. But I doubt that the narrative is going to switch from blaming guns and the NRA.

    nk (dbc370)

  147. @154
    You might find this interesting:
    https://www.ers.usda.gov/data-products/chart-gallery/gallery/chart-detail/?chartId=78820

    As far as the CPAC no-guns thing, it’s just something I found funny. I’ll usually provide better sourcing (such as the example above) for things I’m trying to be serious about.

    Davethulhu (99cc74)

  148. @155 – Beldar, branding them incompetent and/or un-heroic is too kind. They are despicable cowards who knew when they were hired, trained, and paid to protect their community that this day might come. The comparison with the Capitol Police is stark, but a more compelling differentiation are the volunteer firemen everywhere who risk their lives every day.

    These should be constantly named and shamed.

    “Lions don’t care about the opinions of sheep.”
    —- Scott Israel, BrCoward County Sheriff, in response to allegations of his corruption – 2016

    Lenny (5ea732)

  149. Beldar,

    It’s worse than “un-heroic”, as the entire gun control narrative is predicated on “the police will protect you.” Now, sometimes they can’t get there, and that could maybe be understood, but when they DO get there, yet refuse to protect children, the wisdom of the 2nd Amendment is all too clear.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  150. Forget broward coward. Just Google coward. Or click here, and scroll down just past the definition.

    nk (dbc370)

  151. @159

    I’m not sure what your point is. I’m not denying that Chicago has school lunch programs, I’m just showing that, for example, Texas has at least 50% more kids on school lunch programs than Illinois.

    Davethulhu (99cc74)

  152. 160 – These cops should…

    Lenny (5ea732)

  153. Putting pistol packing teachers in the classroom is no panacea.

    Putting guns in the hands of that small fraction of teachers “trained to arms” would be sufficient, and is the precise meaning of even the most cramped view of the 2nd Amendment.

    The downside? Most of those trained to arms are men, and not only would this lead to more men teaching in public schools, but might present the image of armed men protecting women and children, and that will NEVER do.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  154. Most of those trained to arms are men, and not only would this lead to more men teaching in public schools, but might present the image of armed men protecting women and children, and that will NEVER do.

    Yes, I’m sure there are currently lots of men who’d like to be teachers, but aren’t because they can’t bring a gun to school.

    Davethulhu (99cc74)

  155. what a troll

    Kevin M (752a26)

  156. It’s worse than “un-heroic”, as the entire gun control narrative is predicated on “the police will protect you.

    Do you really think so?

    I would say it is predicated on a far less plausible premise: “if guns aren’t legal, bad guys won’t have them and you won’t need anyone’s protection.”

    Dave (445e97)

  157. At my daughter’s K-5, there were only two men in the school — the principal and the janitor. It seemed to even out in middle school, and in her high school men seem to be the majority.

    nk (dbc370)

  158. I would say it is predicated on a far less plausible premise

    Well, yes, but it IS far less plausible. The more likely argument is a stronger one.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  159. IF bad guys don’t have guns, that doesn’t do much to,stop,crime, it just puts the physically weaker at the mercy of the strong men and young break in artist have far superior physical,strength to me and other women guns are an equalizer. It also prevents ordinary people,from joining into protect the community during riot or invasion, as well as fend of nature red in tooth and claw or rabid as the case may be. Weapons are tools of defense as well,as aggression, so it’s quite obvious the pint of disarming people is to,prevent them defending themselves or their community.

    SarahW (3164f0)

  160. An edit went terribly wrong there. Sorry for the gibberish section. Delete from “men”t through “artist” and it’s almost English.

    SarahW (3164f0)

  161. For many Chicago kids, also the only providers of two square meals, breakfast and lunch, a day.

    nk (dbc370) — 2/23/2018 @ 8:32 pm

    You get a healthy snack in the School to Prison Pipeline.

    Pinandpuller (997a39)

  162. “The Onion Field” was one of those occasional police incidents that changes the game for all of us in law enforcement. Prior to this incident, officers were occasionally disarmed by suspects, who then fled without doing violence. In Los Angeles alone in the weeks prior to “The Onion Field,” three officers were known to have been unarmed, but unharmed.

    This time was different. After Campbell and Hettinger (both ex-Marines) were disarmed and kidnapped, Campbell was murdered while standing at gunpoint with his arms up in the air. The crooks (both now deceased) fired at Hettinger. He managed to escape, but only physically. Hettinger was doomed to a life of what we now call post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), which was unheard of in the 1960s.

    Younger readers may scratch their heads. “How could this have happened?” The answer is found when you realize that in the past half century you have had the benefit of improved tactical training that came at the cost of the blood and minds of officers like Ian Campbell and Karl Hettinger.

    Consider these phrases—officer-survival skills; weapon-retention skills; improved holsters; training to not ever give up your gun; the warrior mindset; pre-determined code words between partners that mean, “I’m in trouble, SHOOT HIM NOW;” physical-fitness emphasis; front- and rear-gun takeaway training; close-contact shooting; back-up guns; hideaway guns; and finish the fight.

    My first case as a use-of-force expert 23 years ago involved a California Highway Patrol officer who literally saved his own life by killing the suspect with a five-shot back-up gun he wore on his boot. He had lost his duty pistol in a knock-down, drag-out fight. I sure hope YOU carry a back-up gun.

    A few days after “The Onion Field” tragedy, legendary LAPD Commander John “Two Gun” Powers—a World War II veteran involved in quite a few shoot-outs—issued what came to be known as “The Hettinger Memorandum.” Here are a few lines:

    “The police are engaged in a hot war. There are no truces, and there is no hope of an armistice. The enemy abides by no rules of civilized warfare.

    “The individual officer, when taking his oath of office, enters a sacred trust to protect his community to the best of his ability, laying down his life if necessary.

    “All men return to dust. The manner of a man’s living and dying is of paramount importance. Although some moderns have attempted to sap the strength and ideals of this nation by slogans such as ‘I’d rather be red than dead,’ there are situations more intolerable than death.”

    Police Mag

    Pinandpuller (997a39)

  163. Is rear admiral been burned really Johnny weir?

    mg (9e54f8)

  164. Yes, I’m sure there are currently lots of men who’d like to be teachers, but aren’t because they can’t bring a gun to school.

    Davethulhu (99cc74) — 2/23/2018 @ 10:08 pm

    Well part of the problem with male teachers is all the children of single mothers think you look like Harvey Weinstein casting a new movie.

    Pinandpuller (997a39)

  165. Rather than a strawman argument, here’s an actual one:

    Gun control advocates point to Australia’s gun control program. Here’s a Fortune article that gives a good overview of what happened: http://fortune.com/2018/02/20/australia-gun-control-success/

    And here’s what amounts to a rebuttal, by fake-news New York Times: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/23/opinion/australias-gun-laws-america.html

    Here’s the tl;dr:
    Australia banned semi-auto and other military-style weapons. The population largely accepted it, and the result was a huge decline in gun violence and gun suicides, without somehow devolving into tyranny.

    The rebuttal is pretty simple: Americans have a relationship with guns that doesn’t exist in Australia.

    Davethulhu (99cc74)

  166. I would say it is predicated on a far less plausible premise: “if guns aren’t legal, bad guys won’t have them and you won’t need anyone’s protection.”

    Dave (445e97) — 2/23/2018 @ 10:19 pm

    Well I don’t know about you but my wife is 5’2″ and she stands 6’6″ with her Glock 19. In case a basketball team shows up and wants to dunk on her. You do know not all games are one on one right?

    Pinandpuller (997a39)

  167. I should say that as a generic “you”, sorry if I misread that Dave.

    Pinandpuller (997a39)

  168. The rebuttal is pretty simple: Americans have a relationship with guns that doesn’t exist in Australia.

    Davethulhu (99cc74) — 2/23/2018 @ 11:09 pm

    It’s like asking Australia to give up alcohol and racism.

    Pinandpuller (997a39)

  169. … without somehow devolving into tyranny, yet.

    Fixed.

    “Eternal vigilance, etc…”

    Dave (445e97)

  170. Any school cop worth their salt should have submitted to ongoing training. “If you don’t use it you lose it”. Apathy is a terrible thing.. And it cost the lives of many children.

    Plus society kicked God and prayer out of our schools. Who do you think fills that void when God is no longer welcomed? (Think Hard) Plus there is the moral and ethical breakdown of the American family and American society as a whole. There is no moral standard being taught to our young people.

    For example:

    You shall have no other gods before Me.

    You shall not make idols.

    You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.

    Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

    Honor your father and your mother.

    You shall not murder.

    You shall not commit adultery.

    You shall not steal.

    You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

    You shall not covet.

    Joel (eff01d)

  171. (from The Lion in Winter)

    Prince Richard: [the sons – in the dungeon – think they hear Henry approach] He’s here. He’ll get no satisfaction out of me. He isn’t going to see me beg.

    Prince Geoffrey: My you chivalric fool… as if the way one fell down mattered.

    Prince Richard: When the fall is all there is, it matters.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKGPiecEEbA

    Kevin M (752a26)

  172. Any regime which denies people the right to defend themselves is illegitimate, as that is the most basic of natural rights.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  173. Meanwhile Mueller charges someone for lying during their plea-bargaining. You cannot get more meta.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  174. It was once accepted police “doctrine” enforced by the insurance companies and the lawyers that, in a shooting incident, the first job was to “secure the area.” That is why the police officer at Columbine left his position (standing in the door that the two shooters were going to enter) and gave them free access to the school. Also, in the Texas restaurant shooting, two Texas State Police Sergeants, who were eating in the restaurant, left the restaurant and went outside to secure the area rather than confront the shooter. It makes me wonder if that is still official policy?

    Michael Keohane (947544)

  175. Nk @ 169, was the average car of the teachers a lot more luxe at the K-5? That was stark, me seeing the Caddy and the Benz driven by the elementary school teachers and the hoopty/buckets driven by the teachers at my H.S..

    urbanleftbehind (b4183d)

  176. Pin, only the ugly male teachers would get the Weinstein evil eye from the single moms; you know the others would eventually be creeping out the house or apartment before little Johnny or Janie woke up.

    urbanleftbehind (b4183d)

  177. I think it’s a universal thing that the wife drives the nice car and the husband the jalopy.

    nk (dbc370)

  178. Or the wife drives the nice car and the husband drives the fun car…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)


  179. Yes, I’m sure there are currently lots of men who’d like to be teachers, but aren’t because they can’t bring a gun to school.
    Davethulhu (99cc74) — 2/23/2018 @ 10:08 pm


    I doubt if that’s true. It’s possible but unlikely. I think what Kevin M means is that since men are more likely to have experience with guns if schools needed people with that qualification they would most likely be hiring more men. You would have to believe men are pretty stupid not to be teachers because they can’t carry a gun (on school property).

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  180. Yes, I’m sure there are currently lots of men who’d like to be teachers, but aren’t because they can’t bring a gun to school.

    Davethulhu (99cc74) — 2/23/2018 @ 10:08 pm

    God help the woman who married this Quimby…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  181. “Lions don’t care about the opinions of sheep.”

    —- Sheriff Buford Pussy

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  182. “Blame is the coward’s solution to his fear of accountability.”

    —- Craig D. Lounsbrough

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  183. A little perspective on the dead thread:

    http://www.businessinsider.com/george-soros-eric-greitens-indictment-2018-2

    narciso (d1f714)

  184. Taking the long long view, an infusion if men and eventual restoration to the majority of teachers could complicate the noticeable Scott Walker tactic of picking on the non-muscle mostly female unions

    urbanleftbehind (b4183d)

  185. That’s where Kasich screwed himself extending his SB5 to the first responders and the trades…he turned his potential coup army against him long before RNC Cleveland.

    urbanleftbehind (b4183d)

  186. What is mg’s obsession with sissies?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  187. Top men like dewine and vorstedt (huxtedt) stuck a chives into kasichs back, so cleanly he didn’t notice, its a possible consideration. You saw the fury the progs aimed at walker, as if he was personally invoking bloody Mary

    narciso (d1f714)

  188. If the sanctions don’t work, we’ll have to go to Phase 2,” Trump replied. “Phase 2 may be a very rough thing. May be very, very unfortunate for the world.”

    In other words: If North Korea does not meet my demands, I will deliberately inflict something “very, very unfortunate” on the entire world

    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/02/trump-i-may-punish-the-entire-world-for-north-koreas-sins.html

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  189. Narco digs war.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  190. As long as his arse is in the rear with the gear.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  191. Well, I know that Chicago Public Schools gives extra incentives to STEM teachers, including a three-year waiver of the residency requirement for new hires, and STEM is overwhelmingly male.

    Anybody go any idea about the male-female ratio in the semi-hard fields such as Finance, Business, Economics …?

    nk (dbc370)

  192. Muthafu<ka…

    Since 2016, Thiel has sparingly discussed his role in destroying Gawker, sitting for just three public interviews and writing a single New York Times opinion piece. He’s left many questions, like those about his exact motivations and how he funded Hogan’s case, unanswered.

    Thiel declined an interview for this piece through a spokesperson. D’Souza did not return multiple phone calls to his offices, emails, and a LinkedIn message sent by BuzzFeed News.

    The revelation of D’Souza’s role paints a clearer picture of Thiel’s plan to finance litigation against Gawker following its 2007 publication of articles he considered invasive and hurtful. Thiel, however, only proceeded with his plan three years later when he met Mr. A, following a period in which he met with current and former Gawker staffers to understand why he drew the scrutiny of their coverage.

    While many believe that Thiel’s decision-making was driven largely by the publication of a December 2007 article titled “Peter Thiel is totally gay, people,” the situation was more nuanced. The Gawker reporter who wrote that story, Owen Thomas, previously wrote that a Thiel representative “assured me that he had no issue with the post,” while Nick Denton, Gawker’s founder, said that following the post, the tech investor went “on a broader media charm offensive.”

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanmac/this-is-the-man-who-helped-peter-thiel-demolish-gawker-mr-a?utm_term=.bdPJJK5xD#.hhVzz72yP

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  193. I see Bun Burn clocked in 12 minutes late. Probably brownouts in Mumbai.

    nk (dbc370)

  194. Walker was as Co ty e ecutive, still more an putsidr, than kasichs, so hewaa more immune to said attacks. But you can be Mr Rogers and they’ll still staple horns on you.

    So kasichs wants to ban the ar 15, most progressives know that is a neglible element so why concede on that point,

    narciso (d1f714)

  195. Now that we have seen how derelict law enforcement is, what recourse does a student have to defense themselves while the the leg debates the number of angels on the pins.

    The irony of ‘smoking aces’ which was set in Nevada, telling the Las Vegas authorities the importance of training gleaned from ft. Lauderdale.

    narciso (d1f714)

  196. County, outsider, next time he’ll win ahia again, probably.

    narciso (d1f714)

  197. Still fantasizing I’m Soros eh no?

    He wishes he was me.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  198. You’re still in the horse and buggy days, Hoagie. That’s when the gentleman walked on the curb side to guard the lady from runaway horses. Now, he walks on the inside to guard the lady from muggers who might spring from an alley or doorway.

    nk (dbc370)

  199. Always walk on the traffic side..

    But when you open the car door and she doesn’t reach across to unlock your side…dump her.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  200. I’m calling him smoking aces, after pivens character.

    So you have a generation where many get no structure at home, no real rolenoxels,

    narciso (d1f714)

  201. Models (winning the future) they have Bradbury ever present shells, there are no tools for classroom mAnagement (that was a German import) what do you do?

    narciso (d1f714)

  202. Then you add to that knowledge free education in many parts of the curriculum, no effective ethics or moral code being imparted; two judgemental. Greshams,law takes hold.

    narciso (d1f714)

  203. 205, he any kin to that D’nesh guy? That was one prolific Portuguese sailor that got to Goa.

    urbanleftbehind (b4183d)

  204. I thought about that but haven’t assumed he isn’t connected in some way, urban. The Network is extensive.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  205. Heh, the folks who have egg foo hung on their face thanks to Steele, speak of middlemen, shirley

    narciso (d1f714)

  206. Economist Mark J. Perry, who posted this chart on the American Enterprise Institute’s Ideas blog, argued that prices are highest in the economic sectors that are most heavily regulated.

    Said he: “Remind me of why socialism is so great again.”

    https://philebersole.wordpress.com/2018/02/22/remind-me-why-socialism-is-so-great-again/

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  207. This became known as Baumol’s cost disease, and Baumol realized that it had implications far beyond the arts. It implies that in a world of rapid technological progress, we should expect the cost of manufactured goods — cars, smartphones, T-shirts, bananas, and so forth — to fall, while the cost of labor-intensive services — schooling, health care, child care, haircuts, fitness coaching, legal services, and so forth — to rise. And this is exactly what the data shows:
    https://www.vox.com/new-money/2017/5/4/15547364/baumol-cost-disease-explained

    Some of you are ready for meat

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  208. Payback…what? Barrel bombs on hospitals is not Terror?

    https://www.rt.com/news/260189-russia-embassy-syria-shelling/

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  209. So what is tbe real long term solution, it’s not gun confiscation or bannings

    narciso (d1f714)

  210. What else has been missing from the discussion is that Broward County is South New York. Its Congresscritters are Alcee Hastings(!) and Ted Deutch who succeeded Robert “I Voted For A Nazi Because Of A Hanging Chad” Wexler. What kind of Sheriff do you think they’d elect, and what kind of policies and politics would he practice? And whose side would the media take?

    nk (dbc370)

  211. To answer your first question, nk I submit this pic of the head coward of Broward with is bestest friend:
    https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-EJt7iFY0LxY/WpFxiyPLqhI/AAAAAAABXZc/JWh6SGEJuMUIvM1mDdFFqCJbDRMBEmH4gCLcBGAs/s1600/1_190m_inline_p4e2c5exGV1qifyvs_540.jpg

    His policies and practices are self evident as whose side the media will take.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  212. That’s a pic of their hero. Now a pic of ours:
    https://i1.wp.com/www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2018/02/GunGirl-2090.jpeg?resize=534%2C600

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  213. That quip of Israel’s from Game Of Thrones that Kishnevi linked in his Comment 141, “Lions don’t care about the opinions of sheep”, just made me remember Aesop’s fable about the jackass in a lion’s skin, Hoagie. This guy is no cop. He’s just a shady leftist politician.

    nk (dbc370)

  214. Why dey tatted hoagie?

    Is this your taste, all bones and no waste?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  215. Can’t find support for rumor Mueller has three sealed INDICTMENTS going to UK.

    Farage?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  216. 1)NK, you forgot Debbie! The worst one of all.

    2) Israel ran as a Democrat for re-election, but the first time he was selected, he was a GOP. Running as I recall against the preferred candidate of the Democratic machine. (Narciso can correct that if I’m wrong.)

    Kishnevi (dbdcc5)

  217. It is probably not news to most of you that that the shift in the political center of gravity to the right in America was no accident. Starting in the 1960s, a group of extreme conservatives, many of them aligned with the John Birch Society, embarked on a program to undo the New Deal and make American values and politics more supportive to business interests. That campaign was codified in the so-called Powell Memo. As we wrote in ECONNED:

    ….wealthy conservative lawyer and later Supreme Court justice Lewis Powell wrote a memo to the U.S. Chamber of Commerce in 1971 that galvanized the right wing. He argued that corporations needed to launch a coordinated and sustained attack to discredit liberals. Among the key elements was the creation of a well-funded effort that looked like a “movement” to press its cause with the media. Generously financed “scholars, writers, and thinkers” would demand fair treatment and “equal time” as the wedge for forcing the press to treat them seriously. In turn, they would recast issues, with the aim of reshaping opinion from the elite to the mass level.

    https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2018/02/beat-the-right-wing-framing-how-to-make-the-case-for-a-better-fairer-economy.html

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  218. That’s a pic of their hero. Now a pic of ours:

    As someone who’s been to a gun range maybe one or twice, ~forty years ago, what’s the deal with the “No Headshots, No Exceptions!” sign behind the cultist?

    (Military and cops are probably trained to aim for the heart, but why does a civilian gun range care what you aim at?)

    Dave (445e97)

  219. God help the woman who married this Quimby

    There are at least two unreasonable assumptions there. Possibly four.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  220. In other words: If North Korea does not meet my demands, I will deliberately inflict something “very, very unfortunate” on the entire world

    I guess you could spin it that way, if you were a Nork apologist. Or you could read it as:

    “The United States will enforce the non-proliferation treaty, and will not allow a monster regime that has violated more agreements than it has signed to have weapons that can kill millions of people. We hope that they will come to their senses, fear they will not, and are deeply concerned about what damage they might do on the way down. But better now than later.”

    Kevin M (752a26)

  221. I see Bun Burn clocked in 12 minutes late. Probably brownouts in Mumbai Moscow.

    FIFY

    Kevin M (752a26)

  222. @ (e.g.) 13 NJRob ; 19 urbanleftbehind ;26 Rev.Hoagie

    These gents’ll have to start taking quite a few names, looks like . . . Wapo:

    But because they [Delta and United] follow similar announcements by car rental giants Avis, Hertz and Enterprise, the Best Western hotel chain, the global insurance company MetLife, and more than a dozen other corporations that used to contract, partner or otherwise affiliate with the NRA, the airline’s move is the latest victory for the #BoycottNRA movement — and the latest bad omen for a gun rights lobby that had seemed untouchable less than two weeks ago.

    Heaven’s above! The work of a gun-fetishist is never done, it appears. Eternal vigilance, patriots! (And thank you for your service!)

    Q! (86710c)

  223. Do they do any surveys of their membership. Before they do this, rhetorical. This was a strategy floated by the other sorkin, apparently nit on coke, last week in the times.

    narciso (d1f714)


  224. …. what’s the deal with the “No Headshots, No Exceptions!” sign behind the cultist?


    I really have no idea what the “No Headshots” sign is all about. I never saw that anywhere before. You shoot at whatever target you want. Dave, I’ve tried to explain to you guys before calling people names makes you look small and inferior. Calling the chick in the pic a “cultist” once again proves like most leftists, you think you’re better than everyone else.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  225. @232

    My guess would be that if you’re aiming for the head, you’re more likely to miss completely and hit the hardware holding the target, which the gun range owner would probably rather not have to repair/replace.

    Davethulhu (99cc74)

  226. That’s well and good, but there isn’t enough stopping power in a shot to the chest

    https://www.steynonline.com/8492/a-total-failure-of-the-state

    narciso (d1f714)

  227. Q!,

    you think you’re trolling, but you’re doing me a favor. I don’t need to spend money in businesses that intend to support leftist slavery.

    “If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”
    ― Samuel Adams

    NJRob (b00189)

  228. Q! @236

    That is not a problem, Q!. These companies will just have to get along without our money. Eventually they will come around and learn the error of their ways. It’s never smart in business to “play politics” and this is no exception. Only commie idiots would believe insulting part of your customer base is good business. We have many options and will exercise them. The businesses are the losers, not us by a long shot.

    It amuses me how disagreeing is not enough for leftist pigs, they need to harm you too. There is really something wrong with those people.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  229. @241 – Sweetheart, I don’t think I’m trolling. I’m simply calling out a garden variety garden state fetishist.

    Q! (86710c)


  230. 240.That’s well and good, but there isn’t enough stopping power in a shot to the chest


    There’s plenty of “stopping power” in a chest shot, narciso. It’s called center mass and it’s what we’re trained to aim for. I put down plenty of commie dogs in Nam with chest shots.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  231. The best revenge against these companies is to further the right of citizens to be armed. Such as passing the concealed carry reciprocity bill. Even better would be a national must-issue law.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  232. They don’t get the third party of the underpants gnome strategy:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/nytimesworld/status/966179463099748354

    narciso (d1f714)

  233. Q!,

    you haven’t earned the right to call me anything other than my posted name. I’ll let you know when you’ve earned otherwise.

    Keep up the trolling. Good job.

    NJRob (b00189)

  234. Kevin M,

    that’s a fantastic idea. And the focus should be on the 4 failures discussed in the post who prove once again that the only way to defend your family is to do it yourself. No one is under any obligation to do it for you.

    NJRob (b00189)

  235. Can leftists really be this stupid?
    https://twitter.com/MSNBC

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  236. Bah.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  237. @249 Sorry it wouldn’t copy.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  238. Its MSNBC, where logic dies a 1,000 deaths,

    narciso (d1f714)

  239. Firing a weapon, is the last resort, so you have to make OT count, will center mass ensure he can’t fire back?

    narciso (d1f714)

  240. Exercising the right to defend yourself = fetish.

    Claiming you are a woman even though you possess XY chromosomes and a penis = science

    Police = systemically racist and can not be trusted.

    Police = the only non-military who should have firearms.

    Best regards,

    The Left

    harkin (8256c3)

  241. Alright, we’ve beat this issue into tasajo, so for the next trick note how Mueller elides and responsibility on skaddens part re Greg Craig or this guy:
    https://www.chambersandpartners.com/USA/person/278355/kenneth-a-gross

    What is this Pearson specter litt?

    narciso (d1f714)

  242. @221

    Hey Ben, since when are bananas manufactured? And I see some areas that are manipulated by government regulations and subsidies. Just sayin’.

    Pinandpuller (5d3034)

  243. Also, Mr Wahl does my hair and it’s never been cheaper. Before that I never paid over $20 and I’m a generous tipper. The black girls I work with may be interested in your newsletter.

    Pinandpuller (5d3034)

  244. Maybe the fastest way to a rapist’s head is thru his heart.

    I have a hill behind my house and I staple targets on pallets that are attatched to 2×4’s on the bottom. I also have aspirations to Hickok45’s setup. I have many steel circles recycled from a tool and die manufacturer. Maybe this summer.

    Pinandpuller (5d3034)

  245. @188 urbanleftbehind

    No, it’s much worse than that. I’m talking about kids of single moms mobbing male teachers. I subbed K-12 and it was very uncomfortable at times. It’s like they opened every door at the animal shelter at once.

    Pinandpuller (5d3034)

  246. I’m guessing it wasn’t like a CBS sitcom or a Lifetime movie, more like the old WB/UPN and whichever school diztrict the wastrel in a Madea flick ran from.

    urbanleftbehind (b4183d)

  247. I think they mean banana hammocks but how about the rest of that crap we buy, pin?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  248. 224, previous to the current congressional map, Broward had epidermal layer type districts that seemed be comprised of like minded condo complexes. Imagine an even more compressed version of the South Side districts to the south of Madigan’s rotten birough that extend along say 95th street from the Dan Ryan althe way to LaGrangeRoad.

    urbanleftbehind (b4183d)

  249. State rep (as opposed to congressional districts, of which we’ll probably lose 2 next census).

    urbanleftbehind (b4183d)

  250. @200 narciso

    If there were chives on Kasich they were on his front side. Funny autocorrect, I know.

    Pinandpuller (5d3034)

  251. I got a lot of my “education” picked up by tuition reimbursement. I wonder how much that contributes to inflation?

    The main problem is that councilors are talking kids into buying education they don’t need and can’t afford. So they are a lot like car salesman.

    Pinandpuller (5d3034)

  252. @203 Ben

    South Florida is on the frontline, haven’t you been paying attention? Children’s Crusade 2.0.

    Pinandpuller (5d3034)

  253. “And the final practical lesson of Columbine is a revolution in police response tactics. Cops followed the old book at Columbine: surround the building, set up a perimeter, contain the damage. That approach has been replaced by the “active shooter protocol.” Optimally, it calls for a four-person team to advance in a diamond-shaped wedge. (If there isn’t time to gather four officers, a single officer should charge in alone.) They’re trained to move toward the sound of gunfire and neutralize the shooter. Their goal is to stop him at all costs. They will walk past a dying child if they have to, just to prevent the shooter from killing more. The active protocol has proved successful at numerous shootings during the past decade. At Virginia Tech alone, it probably saved dozens of lives.”

    http://amp.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/history_lesson/2009/04/the_four_most_important_lessons_of_columbine.html?__twitter_impression=true

    harkin (8256c3)

  254. South Florida is on the frontline,

    That’s for quislings.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  255. So Ben, if wages are flat why would the cost of labor intensive things rise? Or rather when they are flat.

    Pinandpuller (5d3034)

  256. 272

    My answer is a metaphor.

    When I was in middle school chunky candy bars were two one ounce pieces for a nickle. That same year they proudly announced the price would not change and one piece increased in size by a whopping 33 1/3 %. My share decreased by 2/3 for the same nickel. Did that profitology reach the line-worker?

    Apparently knot!

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  257. And so das Kapitalism!

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  258. @269

    It was on the nuclear frontline before anywhere else. Just ask DCSCA if you don’t believe me.

    Pinandpuller (5d3034)


  259. 254.Firing a weapon, is the last resort, so you have to make OT count, will center mass ensure he can’t fire back?
    narciso (d1f714) — 2/24/2018 @ 10:17 am


    Center mass is the largest and easiest part of a person to hit. Especially when the adrenaline is pumping and people are moving all over. Head shots more often than not miss (unless the shooter is a sniper) and frequently when they hit they ricochet. Center mass is the spot. Now, if you’re two feet away blow his brains out.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  260. I think your argument is with FDR or Willy Wonka. Why don’t you try the Crunchy Frog and consider how much chocolate you would have under Mao or Stalin or even Brezhnev.

    Pinandpuller (5d3034)

  261. Are people so invested in these silly Gun Free School Zones they cannot grasp new ideas? Heh.

    The image of a teacher with power scares them like corporal punishment.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  262. You have no real argument is what you’re saying pin. If you can’t handle debate you should try fry cook.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  263. My father was a champion skeet shooter.

    Bwaaaaaaaaa!

    https://nypost.com/2018/02/22/automatic-weapons-dont-belong-in-the-hands-of-everyone/

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  264. Do skeets return fire?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  265. Its a shame that Ben Burn’s trolling just drives everyone else away when there’s not a new topic posted in a 24 hour period. I come to the site sometimes to see who has been involved in the most recent 10 comments as listed on the top right, and when I see Ben has 6-7 of them, I know its a waste of time to even click on.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)


  266. Did that profitology reach the line-worker?

    Apparently knot!
    Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 2/24/2018 @ 11:58 am


    Why yes, comrade it apparently did. They still make Chunky (what a chunk of chocolate) so they stayed in business and I would assume they still employ people. Just like Turkey Hill (and the others) went from a Half Gallon to 56oz to the current 1.5qt. As inflation rises the manufacturers have to either raise the price or cut the cost or a combination of the two. It’s called doing business.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  267. Narco sucks the air with unfathomable yet you focus on effective commenting. I wonder why there is so much arbitrary capricious criticism? Can anyone tell me?

    Heh.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  268. Yes that is the prescribed conclusion hoagie. So if you have a job that pays so little you need public assistance, is that the way capitalism is supposed to work?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memphis_sanitation_strike

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  269. Is Amazon Prime Old Soviet Union. Is only two day wait in line!

    Pinandpuller (5d3034)

  270. Went to a new Cracker Barrel yesterday.

    Waited in store with no chairs because outside too cold. Food was ok but then they brought the check and I found I had yo stand on line for 10 minutes just to pay. Won’t be back.

    Now that’s Capitalism.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  271. Well you could start by cutting out deputies that cost 85k a year. If you want something that watches but does nothing a camera is about 50 bucks.

    Pinandpuller (5d3034)

  272. Am I on topic now Mr lawyer?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  273. A. If you go two or three rounds center body mass and the target is still alive you need a bigger gun*
    B. What happened in Florida wasn’t the result of “oversights” or “missed signals” it was deliberate Broward County policy. They agreed to it because the Obama admin complained that they were arresting too many minorities.

    *At least that’s what my small arms instructor told me when I trained up with a service .45 ACP all those years ago.

    Thud Muffle (5a4596)

  274. How many tips did you redistribute on the way out? Did your wait staff get a living wage?

    Pinandpuller (5d3034)

  275. Why yes, comrade it apparently did. They still make Chunky (what a chunk of chocolate) so they stayed in business and I would assume they still employ people. Just like Turkey Hill (and the others) went from a Half Gallon to 56oz to the current 1.5qt. As inflation rises the manufacturers have to either raise the price or cut the cost or a combination of the two. It’s called doing business.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7) — 2/24/2018 @ 12:15 pm

    We still have New Deal commodity subsidies don’t we? I’m sure that goes to the little guy.

    Back when I was looking at TN land the first time every fifth listing had CRP on it.

    Pinandpuller (5d3034)

  276. Wait staff? Was there a Maitre D’ I didn’t notice? I’m not a conservative tipper.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  277. I see Bun Burn clocked in 12 minutes late. Probably brownouts in Mumbai Moscow.

    FIFY

    Kevin M (752a26) — 2/24/2018 @ 9:23 am

    Moscow Cracker Barrel. Explains all of the lines. And the cold.

    Pinandpuller (5d3034)

  278. Now if Shipwreck could objectively assess the frequency and worth of pinpuller, that would be topical.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  279. There was a lady in a brown apron with stars on the front that presumably took your order and brought your food. But I wouldn’t expect you to remember her after grits and gravy took over.

    Pinandpuller (5d3034)

  280. And all that crap CB routes you through to double-dip on the fraud and corporate usury.

    It’s like a redneck Disneyland: Greediest place on Earth.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  281. Calling the chick in the pic a “cultist” once again proves like most leftists, you think you’re better than everyone else.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7) — 2/24/2018 @ 9:47 am

    I’m sure he’s referring to the Trump shirt and red, white and blue scrunchy pulling her hair back. Or whatever you call those.

    Pinandpuller (5d3034)

  282. Hey! Pin has 17 of the last 40 comments.

    Doesn’t he deserve a bitcoin?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  283. And substance too !

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  284. @241 – Sweetheart, I don’t think I’m trolling. I’m simply calling out a garden variety garden state fetishist.

    Q! (86710c) — 2/24/2018 @ 10:00 am

    NJ doesn’t even trust their people to keep and bear gas nozzles. You probably have to go to a museum to see guns. It’s five Taco Bells away from Demolition Man.

    Pinandpuller (5d3034)

  285. @244 Rev Hoagie

    Rafal Gan Ganowicz (1932 – 2002) was a Polish anti-Communist mercenary. He was active in Europe, Congo, and Yemen. He is quoted as responding “I wouldn’t know, I’ve only ever killed Communists”, when asked what it was like to kill another human. He wrote an autobiography about his experiences. A documentary was made about him and was controversial in Poland.

    Pinandpuller (5d3034)

  286. It’s like a redneck Disneyland: Greediest place on Earth.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 2/24/2018 @ 12:52 pm

    So go into town for some chicken and waffles if your place setting allows 9mm’s.

    Pinandpuller (5d3034)


  287. I’m sure he’s referring to the Trump shirt and red, white and blue scrunchy pulling her hair back. Or whatever you call those.


    Glad you pointed that out. I though he meant a “gun cultist”. I didn’t realize for a Hillary supporter anybody who supports Trump is a “cultist”. I should have figured. The girl can’t just be motivated differently politically she had to be demeaned. Got ya. What lovely people you leftists are. It’s amazing that kissing a losers a$$ isn’t a cult but supporting the President of the United States is. Talk about being back a$$wards and mental problems.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  288. @ #301
    That’s exactly how I feel about it, Pinandpuller. I’ve seen communists up close. I have no time for communists.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  289. Do commies exist any more?

    If they don’t you have to invent.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  290. How do I know? We’re not privy to inside knowledge like those cops over there huddled behind the fountain. We don’t know it’s a serial problem student, dealing with abandonment issues, pockets bulging from inheritance money, still trying to get evedn with mommy and daddy.

    Here’s what I do know. That guy brought an M-16 to a school.

    That’s like bringing a fishing rod to a Koy pond. There ain’t no way a half rtrded mo[edit] f[edit] like that is looking over his shoulder.

    And their ain’t no way on God’s Green Earth he’s gonna get the bulge on me and my .38.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  291. Truthfully – the only people that would worry me in that senario are the f[edit]ing coward cops shooting me in the back after I had done their job for them.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  292. Alright. What did you say to Happyfeet?

    You scared our penguin off. What did you do? What did you say?

    Somebody better get up here and apologise.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  293. House Intel Comm Dem Memo released today. Redactions look minor, and from the context I think several can be guessed at as a general proposition.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  294. It seems to be long on assertion, long on facts. Shocker.

    narciso (d1f714)

  295. And its a friggin joke — its all the things that have previously been reported. It does not in the least bit undermine the claims by the majority that the FISA process was corrupted, and without the Steele dossier information there would have been no FISA application.

    The existence of an FBI counter-intelligence investigation, and the obtaining of a FISA warrant are conflated as if they are just one big thing.

    Its too long to critique comprehensively here. I don’t have the 3 hours it would take to point out every straw man and red herring argument it trots out.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  296. Oops..

    The memo reveals that the FBI has already launched investigations into members of the Trump team prior to receiving a dossier of allegations about Trump’s ties to the Kremlin, which the president has long derided as a fiction. The dossier was financed by the campaign of Hillary Clinton, leading Republicans to allege that the FBI’s Russia investigation was prompted in part by political opposition research.

    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/24/democratic-memo-gop-fbi-trump-campaign-423446

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  297. 312 — I guess Ben had not yet heard that the FBI opened its initial investigation in July 2016 based on the reporting from the Australians that Papadopolous claimed that the Russians had Hillary’s emails.

    Its been in all the papers Ben.

    THe KEY that the Dems don’t even touch is that without the Steele dossier claims about Page’s activities in Moscow — none of which are corroborated by anyone — there wouldn’t have been an Oct. 2016 FISA warrant because info from 2013 to March 2016 would not have supported the issuance of a FISA warrant in Oct. 2016 due to the doctrine of “staleness.”

    And its completely SPECIOUS and dishonest to claim that the FISA warrant did not amount to spying on the Trump campaign based on the fact that Page left the campaign 3 weeks before the Warrant was issued, when they know that the Warrant gave them access to all Page’s historical emails with campaign personnel from the spring and summer of 2016 when he was with the campaign.

    And the Memo completely punts on the question of to what extent DOJ provided COMPLETE information to the FISA court about the fact that Steele’s work was on behalf of the Clinton campaign and the DNC. It doesn’t even try.

    Because we also have the Grassley memo, we know more than was originally in the Nunes memo. We know the information was in a footnote, and we know that the information was not specific in identifying the Clinton Campaign and DNC, but merely made on oblique reference to their being a political motive or bias in the process of Steele seeking out the information.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  298. Yup

    On the money laundering front, Manafort and Gates were both charged with a broader “conspiracy to launder money” and separate specific charges on their failure to report foreign bank and financial accounts.

    https://www.vox.com/2018/2/23/17045226/robert-mueller-flip-rick-gates-russia

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  299. They reclassified info already in the public domain, to make it look more ominous, yes page, had been part of the periphery of Gazprom deal, but no where near rosneft, as Craig pierrong has pointed out, they chose poorly handing it over to Qatar bank santopaulo and glencore.

    narciso (d1f714)

  300. It’s called probable cause

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  301. As I have been saying, the overarching matter is money laundering…has been for quite a while.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  302. They also reclassified gaetas name, the FBI contact person in Rome, seeing that politic was one of the funnels it doesn’t surprise

    narciso (d1f714)

  303. Alex downers name is now a state secret as is apparently the name of the case where page was contacted by buryakov, seriously

    narciso (d1f714)

  304. And the name of the official, isicoff was told had met with page.

    narciso (d1f714)

  305. As I have been saying, the overarching matter is money laundering…has been for quite a while.

    Yeah, ever since the overarching matter of “collusion” disintegrated — and until a new overarching matter is unearthed once the money laundering charge falls apart.

    random viking (6a54c2)

  306. No wonder, it was a different official.

    narciso (d1f714)

  307. You are historically and hysterically ignorant young peckerwood.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  308. When did all the pre-pubescents roll off the turnip truck? (Recently)

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  309. I prefer aged beef to freshly slaughtered Millenial.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)


  310. 324.When did all the pre-pubescents roll off the turnip truck? (Recently)


    I don’t know but it seems eating Tide Pods makes them experts on gun control. Who knew?

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  311. I’ve heard one pod isn’t enough and three, too many.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  312. RE: https://nypost.com/2018/02/22/automatic-weapons-dont-belong-in-the-hands-of-everyone/

    These aholes always try to blur the line between semi-auto and automatic.

    You ever see Gettysburg the movie starring Jeff Daniels as Col. Chamberlain?

    As an officer he wears a sidearm. Enlisted men are armed with rifles.

    It’s the same on the firing range. The range instructers are armed with pistols. Everyone else has a rifle.

    Why?

    Must be a reason. That guy whose dad use to skeet shoot, he hasn’t thought about the reason.

    It’s because a handgun you can aim and shoot just like pointing your finger. A rifle is like pointing your leg and shooting.

    Fact is you want the crazy guy who doesn’t know any better to shoot up a place using a rifle. A rifle is unwealdy, takes skill to operate effectively, easy to avoid compared to a pistol.

    When it comes down to a gun fight, mano on mano, you want to have a handgun. That rifle guy, your pistolier is going to drop him while rifleman is still trying to draw a bead.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  313. Glad you pointed that out. I though he meant a “gun cultist”. I didn’t realize for a Hillary supporter anybody who supports Trump is a “cultist”. I should have figured. The girl can’t just be motivated differently politically she had to be demeaned. Got ya. What lovely people you leftists are.

    For the record, yes, I called the woman a cultist because she thinks having an immoral imbecile in the White House is something to celebrate. She chose to wear a shirt proclaiming her adoration of Trump and ensuring it would color the first impressions of anyone she met (and anyone who saw the linked photo of her). So I stand by my characterization. She is clearly not a “hold my nose and vote for the lesser evil” type. Anybody who applauds the fact that we have a whore-mongering, moronic, mentally deranged woman-abuser in the White House has swallowed the Kool-Aid, bought into the lies, and joined the cult of personality.

    I’m amused that you sanctimoniously scolded me for “calling people names”, but in the sentence above you called a Hillary supporter and a leftist, both of which you know (or should know) are false. I scrupulously avoid calling the people who post here names. I don’t believe I’ve ever called you a name, for instance.

    Your admonition about treating people “motivated differently politically” with respect is one of the more ironic comments I’ve read here in a while, but I whole-heartedly endorse it. My opposition to Trump is not based on politics; rather, it is despite politics.

    It’s amazing that kissing a losers a$$ isn’t a cult but supporting the President of the United States is. Talk about being back a$$wards and mental problems.

    More name-calling! I didn’t kiss any loser’s a$$. Sorry, but when the President of the United States is a whore-monger, a draft-dodger, an aggressively ignorant bigot, a woman abuser and a pathological liar, I’m won’t pretend that he deserves my support or respect for the sake of political correctness.

    Dave (445e97)

  314. George Papadopoulos revealed [redacted] that individuals linked to Russia, who took interest in Papadopoulos as a Trump campaign foreign policy adviser, informed him in late April 2016 that Russia [two lines redacted]. Papadopoulos’s disclosure, moreover, occurred against the backdrop of Russia’s aggressive covert campaign to influence our elections, which the FBI was already monitoring. We would later learn in Papadopoulos’s plea that the information the Russians could assist by anonymously releasing were thousands of Hillary Clinton emails.

    https://www.emptywheel.net/2018/02/24/schiff-memo-reveals-that-mifsud-specifically-told-papadopoulos-russia-would-release-hillary-emails-to-help-trump-campaign/

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  315. Re the host at 43:

    It looks like the Conservative Treehouse tweet was correct — there is multi-agency, multi-party agreement that was entered into in Oct. 2016, between the Broward School District, the District Court, the State AG, Public Defender, numerous police agencies and many social groups representing the interests of minorities.

    Its EXACTLY the kind of agreement you would have expected in the closing days of the Obama Admin., with the only absence among the signees being the DOJ Civil Rights Division.

    Its called the “Promise Program”, and the agreement is captioned “Collaborative Agreement on School Discipline”.

    Its a pdf, so I can’t cut and paste, but a couple of the “Whereas” clauses state that there were over 1000 arrests on school campuses in 2011-12, 71% of which were for misdemeanors. Half of those arrested had never before been involved in the juvenile justice system.

    And students of color, students with disabilities and LGBTQ students are “disproportionately impacted by school-based arrests for the same behavior as their peers” — which is another way of saying white able-bodied straight students are allowed to get away with crimes.

    The agreement is truly a thing to behold — its 20 pages long.

    Everyone who places blame on for the Florida shooting on the NRA should be forced the memorize this thing until they can repeat it by heart word for word. It is a monument to stupidity and sowing the seeds for further school violence in Broward County.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  316. shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  317. Why does Trump like Lewandowski? Here’s why…btw he was advising Trump the other day..link follows. For this just cp in the browser..

    First, the battery. The campaign manager — not a volunteer, not even a hired security guard, but the honest-to-goodness campaign manager — nearly shoved reporter Michelle Fields to the ground and inflicted bruises on her arm. When she protested, there was no apology. Instead, the campaign at first suggested that there was a mistake: Lewandowski mistook Fields (who worked at the time for the pro-Trump Breitbart.com) for a member of the mainstream media. Oh, so that makes shoving OK? But the campaign quickly reverted to outright lies. Hope Hicks, a Trump campaign spokesman, said that Fields’ account was “entirely false . … I did not witness any encounter … not a single camera or reporter of more than 100 in attendance captured the alleged incident.” Trump himself offered that “maybe she made it up.”

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  318. They don’t do the students any favors like I mentioned with greshams law, the students who are willing to learn are burdened by those unwilling.

    narciso (d1f714)

  319. I’ve heard one pod isn’t enough and three, too many.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 2/24/2018 @ 3:42 pm

    How white are your sheets?

    Pinandpuller (5d3034)

  320. Whiter than white without eye holes.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  321. papertiger

    BS that Cruz couldn’t have done the same thing with a shotgun. Although he was on the small side for handling recoil.

    Pinandpuller (5d3034)

  322. Talk about being back a$$wards and mental problems.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7) — 2/24/2018 @ 1:33 pm

    Old Girl Trump Supporter had a healthy set of buffer tubes on her. I don’t think they’re aftermarket either.

    Pinandpuller (5d3034)

  323. That’s exactly how I feel about it, Pinandpuller. I’ve seen communists up close. I have no time for communists.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7) — 2/24/2018 @ 1:40 pm

    Family Feud: What did you feel shooting communists? Number two answer on the board:

    Recoil.

    Pinandpuller (5d3034)

  324. There is also the line of lt Daniel (ruben blades in real life is an extreme lefty back in Panama) but ftwd Hes a member of sombra nevra,

    ‘How many communists did you kill’

    ‘I lost count’

    narciso (d1f714)

  325. #340 I like it. You’re a funny man.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  326. #155 Beldar

    You hit it dead on. That situation should prompt a deputy to look for an opportunity to kill the shooter, and if he/she cannot kill, the rules should require a Deputy to shoot rounds at the killer or to distract the SOB by firing rounds above the high school kids and into the ceiling above him or any way he/she can find to engage that distracts the shooter, keeping the bad guys rifle on me the deputy while others escape. At those distances a pistol is not as accurate as his AR, but a determined deputy can damn well let him know that the intent is to kill and he is now in a gunfight.

    I don’t get the Broward Deputies actions. If you are afraid then just distract the shooter. Every round he sends at you is one less at the kids. Four guys with pistols should have been able to shoot and move closer and closer. They train for that. Establish fire superiority and then move forward.

    We have 20 year old Marines kicking in doors throughout Afghanistan and the Mess O’Potamia knowing that the place is likely awash in AK 47’s and RPG’s held in hands that Hate the USA and these idiots from Broward can’t even go in and distract the little SOB shooting up the place

    steveg (a9dcab)

  327. So it turns the new CEO of fnbo is a Goldman sachsers, you know the octopus

    narciso (d1f714)

  328. Do commies exist any more?

    If they don’t you have to invent.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 2/24/2018 @ 1:42 pm

    Do Looking Glasses exist anymore?

    Pinandpuller (5d3034)

  329. Here’s a weird fact for you guys to sort out. I have dyslexia and it was quite a problem as a youth. However, I was an expert marksman at a very young age and won many competitions even before I went into the service. I am also ambidextrous and work equally with either hand however, I shoot a rifle much better with my left and a pistol with my right. Usually that would be account of eyesight but in order to qualify for sniper school way back when I had to have perfect vision so that’s not the case. For some reason I find I can control a rifle better firing from my left and hit a pistol target more accurately with my right. Go figure.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  330. Surfers typically are left foot forward and righties are goofyfoot, hoagie. I suspect goofies were ambidextrous.

    You were not a sniper?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)


  331. Do commies exist any more?


    They exist, they just changed their name to keep abreast of the time. Question: What is the difference between a democrat and a communist? Back up question: When was the last time the CPUSA didn’t support the democrat party candidate for office?

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)


  332. You were not a sniper?


    You didn’t know that comrade? I thought everybody did.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  333. Contrary to public perception, I don’t know everything, hoagie. Is that what you believe I am thinking?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  334. “What is mg’s obsession with sissies?”

    Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 2/24/2018 @ 7:12 am

    What? Was he complaining about you again!?!?

    Colonel Haiku (bd4dc3)

  335. You didn’t even know about the heyday of 19th century French anarqists after the canal crisis.

    narciso (d1f714)

  336. No, the subject must have come up before you began sniping, I mean commenting here. haha. I did basic at Ft. Benning and was 29th Infantry. Later I was attached with several other sniper teams to the 82nd Airborn.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  337. anarqists is like gelded Cubanos infesting Florida?

    Please reverse the flow to Batista.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  338. I don’t get the Broward Deputies actions.

    You will if you understand his notion that his $80,000 plus annual paycheck was for “monitoring” services and not guarding.
    I think

    SarahW (3164f0)

  339. I am a social assassin, but no cause of death from gunshot reported, hoagie.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  340. Does narciso breathe oxygen or is he a carbon monoxide freak?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  341. No one at Just One Minute acknowledges his nonsensical scribble . Why do y’all acknowledge the travesty of puerile nonsense. Why here? Desperation?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  342. My uncle the late Perez San Roman, was a benning ’58, as Whittaker chambers noted he joined the side which is faithless to its own, and shows honor to its foes.

    narciso (d1f714)

  343. I knew you were a genetic malfeasance impregnated by the Dicktator
    Batista.

    The commander of the Bay of Pigs invasion, José Perez San Roman, kneeled and kissed the sand with joy when he landed at Playa Girón on the south coast of Cuba. Two days later, his 1,500 men had been thoroughly defeated.

    “We are out of ammo and fighting on the beach. Please send help,’’ San Roman radioed his CIA advisors. Then, this final transmission: “I have nothing to fight with. Am taking to the woods.’’

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  344. So you’re History wrt When is in sync for murdered Nuns in El Salvador you muthafu<from Hell itself.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  345. He has pride in his fascist geneology.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  346. Ben

    We had long deep conversations here about Lewandowski putting the beat down on Michelle Fields.
    http://patterico.com/index.php?s=michelle+fields&submit=Search
    At the end of the day video was posted from the Jupiter Florida police that no crime had been committed.
    https://youtu.be/IGz5DPqU-p0

    I don’t think Patterico has ever actually come to grips with the fact, so you might find sympathetic head nods from him and Ross Douthat.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  347. Trump(shipwrecked) is quite wrong that the Democratic memo is a bust.

    While the “Demo,” as we’ll call it for short, certainly contains its share of political rhetoric, the facts it alleges are worth serious consideration. If they are true even in substantial measure, let alone in all of their particulars, they rather lay waste to the original Nunes document. This despite a number of redactions in the Demo that apparently were the condition of its declassification and that make it hard to parse in some places.

    The document is devastating because the core claim of ranking Democrat Adam Schiff and his colleagues is that the House intelligence committee majority left out key facts from its analysis in such fashion as to effectively lie about the FBI’s FISA application against former Trump adviser Carter Page in the fall of 2016. The supposedly left-out facts constitute the body of the Demo. And if the Democrats are being even generally accurate as to the material that the majority omitted from the original memo, then there is little left of the original document. Entitled “Correcting the Record—the Russia Investigations,” the document thus raises serious questions, certainly not for the first time, about whether Chairman Nunes and his colleagues are acting in good faith.

    https://www.lawfareblog.com/takeaways-house-intelligence-democrats-memo

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  348. It was inadvertent, unlike the provocation directed at miller by the members of the Alaskan dispatch the ones who sank the daily news

    narciso (d1f714)

  349. I don’t get the Broward Deputies actions.

    It’s part and parcel of the same Blue Cowardice that led to the murders of Daniel Shaver, Philando Castille, Justine Damond, Andrew Finch, and many others in my opinion. Cowards that have no business being cops, because they shoot when they shouldn’t and don’t shoot when they should.

    nk (dbc370)

  350. Time and location of interview, name and status of source, the only way you verify, the fact they black out key facts already on the record: and ask us to trust then

    narciso (d1f714)

  351. Mixing Apples and oranges, nk, I know Chicago pd is like the entire zombie squad but don’t extrapolate.

    narciso (d1f714)

  352. Wittes didn’t understand the cardinal importance of military commission a practice with 225 years of history.

    narciso (d1f714)

  353. Which cops are you sticking up for? The killers of the four people I named or the Broward Cowards?

    I do suspect that bloodthirstiness as much as cowardice played a role in those four killings, but the cops themselves claim it was fear.

    nk (dbc370)

  354. How is it Aaron feis knew his responsibility and Peterson and his three stooges didn’t. For that matter so did a full company of coral springs police.

    narciso (d1f714)

  355. Do we want to go down the list of officers who were executed in any of those localities for doing a license check, for being on a standout serving a warrant.

    narciso (d1f714)

  356. Lawfareblog is the home of NeverTrumpers. While I think there are some important contributors over there, Quinta Jurecic and Benny Wittes are not among them. Wittes is a self-confessed and well known BFF of James Comey.

    Their first point — which should be all you need to consider since is juvenile and irrelevant — is that Nunes, of the great “Unmasking” scandal, should be the last guy to complain about the fact that the FISA application did not explicitly name the Clinton campaign and DNC as having been the patrons of the Steele dossier. The write “If Schiff & Co. are to be believed, the explanation for this obscurity was nothing more than routine minimization of U.S. person identities—and the FBI did a reasonable job conveying in general terms who Steele was and for whom he was working.”

    Complete BS. “Unmasking” is the process in the intelligence community of disclosing the identities of US persons who are caught up in intelligence surveillance not targeted at them — both with and without a warrant — just so the person looking at the intelligence can know who the person is. Its absolutely a concrete and massively important Fourth Amendment issue.

    There is NO PROHIBITION IN LAW OR POLICY that prevents the FBI when applying for a FISA warrant to fully advise the FISA Judge of all material facts related to sources of information upon which the warrant relies. There are NO FOURTH AMENDMENT ISSUES. There is NOTHING supporting — and the Dems identify no source for their claim — the proposition the Dem memo which Wittes and Jurecic credit of the failure by the FBI to identify Clinton and the DNC as a “routine minimization of US Person identities.” That is BALD FACE ABSOLUTE BS written by two people who have no idea what they are talking about.

    The balance of their “analysis” is worth pretty much the same.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  357. You’re making my point. They put their blue asses ahead of their sworn duty. Either by killing innocent people out of fear or by letting them be killed out of fear.

    nk (dbc370)

  358. Yes, Narciso, i know of your beef with the black site at the former HQ of the soon to dead retailer, but that was a far more necessary evil than the 16 shots Biff Tannen nk sticks up for. You might have had the same experience a friend of mine from Dallas had, a proud Tejano after getting roughed up on a visit here vowed never to come back.

    urbanleftbehind (8cbee6)

  359. It was a much weaker document then I though they would put together. Mostly out of omission, rather than presentation.

    narciso (d1f714)

  360. nk is right about at least the Phillando Castille and Justine Damond murders.

    How can you say that a lets make Muslims feel better by fast tracking the less hostile members of that population onto the police force program isn’t at least a little bit apple when compared to the Florida situation?

    papertiger (c8116c)

  361. Now the black site was something amusing, there is a difference between a deliberate murder, there really is no excuse for Just one diamond, but what happens in little mogadishu…was there a reasonable expectation that castle posed a threat?

    narciso (d1f714)

  362. Officer Mohammad was a woman beater, in creed and actual fact, before he was ever erroneously trusted with a badge and gun.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  363. 372 — it might be worth noting that while the Broward County Sheriff’s Office signed the “non-intervention” agreement when it came to criminal activity on school grounds by students, the Coral Springs Police Department did not.

    It might be that the Broward County Deputies were waiting on input from their command staff as to whether the shooter’s actions inside were within the confines of the “threat matrix” specified in the “Promise Program” such that it was a disciplinary matter to be handled by the Principal and school administration, and not law enforcement so that the “troublesome” student wouldn’t be needlessly cast into the criminal justice system.

    Maybe?

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  364. We all saw the Castille murder. The only good thing to say about officer Jeronimo was that he didn’t kill everybody in the car.

    His firearm training was top notch, the rest not so good.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  365. Castile vaguely looked like a suspect from several robberies, but Yanez wasn’t beefy enough to hold his ground without shooting first. I think this is where the Metro Twin Cities and the northern whites good fortune hurts it…no Staten Island,no Mount Greenwood to recruit from

    urbanleftbehind (8cbee6)

  366. Here is the other thing about Lawfareblog that makes it a bit of a “joke” site — other than the material provided by some of the contributors — it has no comments. They make themselves immune from any dissenting views? Why do they do that??

    Because — for the most part — its a site where the majority of the contributors are non-lawyers who never worked for a federal law enforcement agency, but they regular write on subjects where they opine expertly on such issues.

    If they had comments they know that their often inaccurate and vacuous analysis would be eviscerated by folks who have actually done the work the write about.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  367. After 19 years, 22 if one goes back to Jonesboro, they don’t get the benefit of the doubt.
    A similar problem happened when ken Williams Phoenix memo, was not kicked up the ranks by bowman and caproni, and they were subsequently given raises!

    narciso (d1f714)

  368. shipwreckedcrew, your comment at 330 was very enlightening. I recently had the experience of a black transsexual student trying to pick a fight in class with a white Honors A student who had done nothing to provoke it. The aggressor was disciplined, but a suggestion was made that the Honors student should be too despite having done nothing wrong. The suggestion was scotched very quickly by the Honors student’s mom who redefines “helicopter parent”. But now I understand why. They were trying to balance their statistics.

    nk (dbc370)

  369. Yes its the same foolishness that trusts with 150 billion in frozen assets

    narciso (d1f714)

  370. So the Hogg lad, thinks a call to boycott Florida, will generate good will, much like fellow kaskey who has shown a fine level of dialogue in the past.

    narciso (d1f714)

  371. There is also the contrast with the thwarted thales train attack film, 15:17

    narciso (d1f714)

  372. You man Hogg has learned nicely the art of being a woke, tide pod swallowing jack ass. Can’t say I wish him anything more than the worst in life.

    Narciso …. “faithless to one’s own while showing honor to one’s foes” … if that does not describe RINOs and NeverT types then not sure what does. Also describes Western Civilzation and its fetish like defense of Third World value systems at the expense of its own.

    Gotta blaze that saying into my lexicon.

    Tapper slapper (71f7f0)

  373. Philando Castile was just the type we needed in the Florida shooting.

    High school cafeteria supervisor with a concealed carry permit.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  374. And for the record we tossed away civil discourse long before Trump. Been a gradual process but it started in the 60 when we introduced euphemisms to mask horrid behavior. From killing babies being about choice. Reckless sexual behavior being about freedom. Drugs bout opening ones mind. Etc. Heck now you can be male but consider yourself female and be a lesbian who likes women.

    But perversion of language leads to obfuscating truth and from there …… civil discourse disintegrates. Trump is a symptomatic and by no means the cause.

    Tapper slapper (71f7f0)


  375. Narciso …. “faithless to one’s own while showing honor to one’s foes” …


    Tapper Slapper nailed it. That’s a great description for just about every leftist policy since burning bras.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  376. I just read that link you provided at American Thinker, narciso. The actions of the corrupt law enforcement is contemptible but this is what occurs when we allow the left to politicize every aspect of our lives. That is a link well worth reading, thanks.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  377. I was mistaken, he had been at belvoir then banning, he was back at the military academy by 58, batista was a feckless leader not deserving the loyalty of like him.

    narciso (d1f714)

  378. It took 9 days to reveal the truth, and only in drips and drabs,

    narciso (d1f714)


  379. 399.It took 9 days to reveal the truth, and only in drips and drabs,


    That’s because the media’s narrative was the persecution of the NRA, Trump, gun owners and conservatives in order to leave gun confiscation the only alternative to “killing children” not the knowledge of the truth. As to be expected.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  380. faithless to one’s own while showing honor to one’s foes” …

    I’ve seen both sides on an equitable basis.

    Also the craven Ends justify Means

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  381. 9-0 Supreme court protects corps from whistleblowers because they might hurt the defenseless little snowflakes.
    https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2018/02/supreme-court-narrows-dodd-frank-sec-whistleblower-protections.html

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  382. That wasn’t the purpose of Sutton dillinger it was a slushfund

    narciso (c31c88)

  383. Narco: Do Captain Hate a favor and tell him he’s so full of carp you can smell it on his breath from the internet.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  384. You see I can’t tell him since he whined like a little girl.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  385. Ben 02.25.18 at 3:34 pm
    Hmm. No one has mentioned who bears responsibility for the sad state of mental healthcare or contraindicative but federally approved drugs for controlling of homeless and housed? Interesting.

    23
    Ben 02.25.18 at 3:45 pm
    Your comment is awaiting moderation.

    But those nasty and autonomous gunz…they beguile the unwary unlike other instruments of death like high capacity machetes and poison gas, 18 wheelers or any other WMD that’s handy.

    http://crookedtimber.org/2018/02/25/a-note-about-responsibility/#comment-727643

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  386. Dana Loesch was brilliant on This Week.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  387. Hogg is a shill. He ignored her points because…agenda.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  388. Re: beenburned… “You can take teh b*tch out teh mental ghetto, but you just can’t take teh b*tch out teh mental ghetto.”

    — Pointy Williams

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  389. He has been trained to excuse those who turned him into target practice, a perfect ingsoc dtone.

    narciso (d1f714)

  390. Did you sneak over to JOM with my well intended advice, narco?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  391. Kishnevi@134
    Selfish? Yes.
    So do something about the cause of the lawsuits rather than attacking the reason that such lawsuits are being won by those that are victims.
    Since there is no private right of action on a criminal level against the cop shops, civil suits are the only path to partial justice.

    Ken (eb81f7)

  392. 330. shipwreckedcrew (56b591) — 2/24/2018 @ 4:44 pm

    And students of color, students with disabilities and LGBTQ students are “disproportionately impacted by school-based arrests for the same behavior as their peers” — which is another way of saying white able-bodied straight students are allowed to get away with crimes.

    No, what they were pretending was that bad behavior was randomly distributed (but it si no more randomly distributed than a person’s friends and acquaintances are) and that blacks were treated worse, but that the standard for whites was right.

    The agreement did nto say they should ddiscriminate by race. They reduiced grounds for susopnsions and Nikolas Cruz benefited from it maybe. Well, maybe not from the agreement, but from the allegations before the agreement. Cruz was suspended after that, but mostly for being over the aghe a schoool was required to take someone.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  393. I think they wanted more to reduce their statistics than to balance them. They knew they couldn’t treat white students worse than similarly situated black ones.

    Anyway, from the American Thinker:

    https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2018/02/exposing_the_deep_rot_in_the_deep_state.html#ixzz58Keb2P5L

    So how is it that four armed cops remained outside the building and did nothing? For that, you have to go to Sundance on Conservative Treehouse, who, beginning with the Trayvon Martin case, has been keeping an eye on the Broward and Miami-Dade County Police Departments, filing FOIA requests and winkling out a major scandal.

    In sum, these actors, in order to obtain federal grants under Obama and Eric Holder, who conned governments into thinking that disparate outcomes – that is, more arrests and school expulsions of black kids than white kids – were the result of discrimination, did not discriminate regarding conduct issues. Local governments were rewarded with grants if they kept school arrests down, the cover being “let’s stop the pipeline from schools to prisons.” Without arrests, there was no record in background checks to keep violent people from having guns.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  394. The article says gangs recruited students because of their impunity, and it got to be that there was a an (unofficial) quota for arrests per month, and criminal gangs realized it was better to commit crimes near the end of a month. It says the tape delay was on purpose – to make it possible to delete evidence of a crime in cas ethe situation was defused. (if it was defused nobody would ever look at the tape, I think. No nee3d to delete.)

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  395. From the eelction in 2008 when Scott Israel first got elected sheriff:

    https://allamberti4sheriff.wordpress.com/

    A new nominee for sleaziest TV ad of this election cycle– the piece of political butchery currently airing in the Broward Sheriff’s race. It compliments Democrat Scott Israel for being an upstanding guy, “vetted by the FBI”. It accuses current Sheriff Al Lamberti of taking campaign cash from a drug dealer and having ”Bush hatchetmen” on his side.

    This hatchet job is brought to us by “The Common Sense Coalition”, an ECO (Election Communications Organzation) that boasts a war chest of some $350,000.

    This kind of poison-pen advertising by innocuous-sounding front groups turns my stomach…So– who’s behind the “Common Sense Coalition”? If you follow the money, the biggest donor is Stuart Rosenfeldt, a Fort Lauderdale lawyer who gave $90,000. Rosenfeldt’s firm employed former Broward Sheriff Ken Jenne after Jenne was forced from office by scandal. One Democrat who now supports Lamberti says that makes sense: “Jenne hates Lamberti”, he told me. “He thinks Lamberti cooperated with the Feds, to take him out…

    …It’s a complicated web that I don’t pretend to have put together (for instance– flamboyant Republican political consultant Roger Stone works out of Rosenfeldt’s law firm, and he’s reportedly one of the “Bush hatchetmen” the ad says are helping Lamberti, though Stone denies being on the Lamberti team).

    But if I lived in Broward (and I don’t), this kind of ad might well sway me… in exactly the opposite direction the ad aims for. The fact that Scott Israel accepts this kind of “ECO” help does not reassure me about his ethical standards.

    Roger Stone turns up in this?

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  396. A letter to the New York Post says the Broward County sheriff gave 6 people (relatives, or political supporters or their relative) patronage (or cushy” jo)bs, one at $90,000 a year. I didn’t find anyting else on the Internet that could tell me what this could be referring to.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  397. 417. That 2008 date is wrong or that was not Scott Israel;s first election. he was elected sheriff in 2012:

    http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/parkland/florida-school-shooting/fl-florida-school-shooting-who-is-broward-sheriff-scott-israel-20180223-story.html

    Israel has also been scrutinized for his relationship with political operative Roger Stone. A Fort Lauderdale resident who built his career on smearing political enemies, Stone had a hand in the political campaigns of Richard Nixon, John McCain and Donald Trump. While backing then sheriff Al Lamberti in 2011, Stone told the Sun-Sentinel that “Scott Israel is an unqualified punk, a racist and a thief.”

    One year later, Stone switched sides, helping Israel defeat Lamberti in the 2012 sheriff’s race. Since then, Israel “added to BSO’s payroll Stone’s book-writing partner, Stone’s book publicist and Stone’s long-time executive assistant,” and even had “Stone’s stepson transferred to detective.”

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)


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