Patterico's Pontifications

2/16/2018

Who Is Indicted Russian Oligarch Yevgeny Prigozhin, and What Are His Connections to Putin?

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 3:45 pm

One of the key figures indicted by a grand jury in the Russia collusion investigation today is Yevgeny Prigozhin, the so-called “chef to Putin.” Who is this fellow, and what connections does he have to the Russian government, if any?

The question is important, because there are no specific allegations in the indictment showing that the Russian government was behind the efforts to influence the 2016 U.S. election decribed in the document. Still, the New York Times explains that “American intelligence agencies have said that Russian President Vladimir V. Putin authorized a multipronged campaign to boost Mr. Trump’s political chances and damage Mrs. Clinton. The indictment points out that the two Russian firms involved in financing it hold various Russian government contracts.” So Prigozhin’s ties to Putin, if any, are a significant component of any analysis of the extent to which Russian interference can be traced to the Kremlin.

It has been known since at least October 2017 that Prigozhin was the financier of a troll factory designed to influence the 2016 U.S. presidential election. For example, CNN reported last October:

Yevgeny Prigozhin is a Russian oligarch dubbed “chef” to President Vladimir Putin by the Russian press. In 2002, he served caviar and truffles to President George W. Bush during a summit in St. Petersburg. Before that, he renovated a boat that became the city’s most exclusive restaurant.

But his business empire has expanded far beyond the kitchen. US investigators believe it was Prigozhin’s company that financed a Russian “troll factory” that used social media to spread fake news during the 2016 US presidential campaign, according to multiple officials briefed on the investigation. One part of the factory had a particularly intriguing name and mission: a “Department of Provocations” dedicated to sowing fake news and social divisions in the West, according to internal company documents obtained by CNN.

Portraits from the past and emerging today show (unsurprisingly) an oligarch with very close ties to Putin. The New York Times today has a piece titled Meet Yevgeny Prigozhin, the Russian Oligarch Indicted in U.S. Election Interference. His ties to Putin as described in the piece are clear and convincing:

Mr. Prigozhin’s critics — including opposition politicians, journalists and activists, the United States Treasury and now Mr. Mueller — say he has emerged as Mr. Putin’s go-to oligarch for that and a variety of sensitive and often-unsavory missions, like recruiting contract soldiers to fight in Ukraine and Syria.

“He is not afraid of dirty tasks,” said Lyubov Sobol of the Anti-Corruption Foundation, an organization established by the prominent opposition leader Aleksei A. Navalny to investigate abuse of state contracts and other illicit schemes.

“He can fulfill any task for Putin, ranging from fighting the opposition to sending mercenaries to Syria,” she said. “He serves certain interests in certain spheres, and Putin trusts him.”

Speaking of Navalny, his investigators revealed in May 2017 that the oligarch was earning billions in Kremlin-awarded defense contracts:

Alexei Navalny’s Anti-Corruption Foundation (ACF) published its latest investigative work on Friday, revealing what it says is a cartel of businesses owned by Yevgeny Prigozhin and contracted by the Defense Ministry. Widely known as “Vladimir Putin’s favorite chef,” Prigozhin is a billionaire restaurateur with a history of catering to St. Petersburg’s elites and winning lucrative federal procurement deals. According to ACF, his cartel has won more than 23 billion rubles ($405 million) in defense contracts.

. . . .

ACF says its report concerns just one of Prigozhin’s cartels. According to Navalny, the billionaire operates several similar schemes that have won a total of 180 billion rubles ($3.2 billion) in Russian defense contracts, including multiple no-bid procurement deals.

Putin has definitely scratched Prigozhin’s back — and in setting up his troll factory, Prigozhin appears to have been scratching Putin’s in return. And the mission, according to the indictment, was to push Trump and Bernie Sanders — anybody but Hillary, Ted Cruz, or Rubio:

Indictment Language

So don’t get the idea that these were random Russians who were trying to influence our elections. This was the Russian government, acting through proxies. There is no other logical conclusion.

P.S. By coincidence, I posted this morning about Navalny and his anti-corruption investigations — and how Putin has managed to get Facebook to remove from Instagram some of the evidence supporting those investigations. My post was instantly lost in the welter of news about Mueller’s indictments, but I suggest you take a look at it. In particular, I discussed how Navalny recently provided compelling evidence that another oligarch tied to Paul Manafort, Oleg Deripaska, has met with and bribed Russian Deputy Prime Minister Sergei Prikhodko, a high-ranking Kremlin official with close ties to Putin. It has been known for months, through an email from Manafort, that Manafort had offered to give private briefings to Deripaska about the 2016 election. Navalny’s investigation suggests that those briefings actually used Deripaska as a conduit between Manafort and the Kremlin.

Thus, we may have evidence of a fairly direct link between Trump’s one-time campaign manager and the Kremlin, relating to the 2016 presidential election. This doesn’t mean Trump was tied to the Kremlin himself, of course — but the evidence is increasingly clear that his campaign manager was. I suspect we haven’t heard the last of this.

Vladimir Putin is the biggest oligarch of them all, and he uses other oligarchs (who owe their wealth to their ability to please Putin) to do his bidding. Again: there is no question but that the indictments issued today relate, not just to any random Russia operation to disrupt our election, but one directed by Vladimir Putin himself. If Russia cooperates in handing over these people for prosecution — in particular Prigozhin himself — I will be very surprised.

[Cross-posted at RedState and The Jury Talks Back.]

501 Responses to “Who Is Indicted Russian Oligarch Yevgeny Prigozhin, and What Are His Connections to Putin?”

  1. Anybody who thinks the Russians activities went forward without support and direction from Putin is off their rocker.

    Bang Gunley (5a4596)

  2. The caterer, he was trying to corner the market on finger
    sandwiches, now whoever owned yushmash which made a pretty penny on missile exports to north Korea,

    narciso (d1f714)

  3. Let’s see an example of the news stories the Russians allegedly paid for.

    Did they get their monies worth? Did anything penetrate down to the papertiger level of consumption?

    papertiger (c8116c)

  4. Today’s indictments didn’t leak — even though the WH was reportedly briefed ahead of time. Dana Perino was reporting this afternoon that the press, upon getting about fifteen minutes’ notice of Rosenstein’s appearance, were speculating that he was announcing his resignation.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  5. Frankly, I can’t see any amount of money increasing the exposure of Donald Trump in American society.

    He’s well known. He’s always been well known.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  6. Now if someone acquires a strategic position in a critical resource like uranium, prior to a bribery attempt attested to by a long time got informant, that is worthy of note.

    narciso (d1f714)

  7. They engaged in operations primarily intended to communicate derogatory information about Hillary Clinton, to denigrate other candidates such as Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio…

    …and compiled it into a dossier used to obtain FISA warrants. Wait, never mind… that was all “by the book.”

    random viking (6a54c2)

  8. “believe it or not nations and other political-economic powers try to influence other nations and political-economic powers, including putting out propaganda during elections and sometimes even – gasp – subsidizing propaganda groups in other countries.

    I know! Aren’t you astonished? It’s only been going on since there have been nations, or perhaps even hominid tribes. Even the U.S. has tried to do it, although admittedly not particularly subtly or well. But apparently, this is news to the MSM and children. (I know, I repeat myself.)…….

    …….In fact, the Russians were working as they always do, to divide the country. Something that Mueller has now apparently decided to help them with.

    How you ask?

    Oh, by getting children, leftists and low-information voters (yeah, I know, I DO like to repeat myself) to believe that “indictments were handed down” and it’s therefore proven that Trump had Russian help. By the time the court throws these out on the basis of “First Amendment, morons,” everyone who is very young or on the left, conditions that are often covalent, will be convinced that Trump was in fact helped by Russians and bewildered that he is not being impeached. And no one on the right will be able to talk to them because Mueller’s propaganda coup will have convinced them that Trump is guilty of collusion, and therefore that the right in the country is in foreign-enemy hands.

    Tell me how this doesn’t make Mueller an accomplice in the Russian attempt to divide the U.S. and subvert our system. Even better, I demand that Mueller explain what other possible purpose he can have in handing down meaningless indictments.

    Since his only conceivable purpose is to help Russian psi-ops, he should immediately register as a foreign agent. And if he won’t, then he should have himself committed, because his actions can’t have any other possible purpose.

    Which is it going be, Mueller, are you crazy or a Russian agent? In either case, you owe the American people a massive apology for your actions. And not all the “heroic persecutor” photographs the MSM publishes of you will absolve you of your guilt.

    Can we stop this madness now?”

    https://pjmedia.com/trending/robert-mueller-mad-russian-agent/

    harkin (6c3294)

  9. They did this better in the last season of quantico, where the speaker of the house had masterminded the assaaination of the vice president,

    narciso (d1f714)

  10. While golfing, I took a quick turn to avoid hitting a chuck hole,

    and accidentally overturned my golf cart.

    A very beautiful and attractive golfer, who lived right there

    on the edge of the golf course, heard the noise, came

    running out of her villa and shouted, “Are you okay?”

    As I looked up I noticed she was wearing only a silky see

    through bath robe which was partially open, revealing what

    appeared to be a VERY nice figure.

    “I’m okay I think,” I replied as I pulled myself out from

    under the twisted cart.

    She said, “Please follow me to my villa so I can clean and

    bandage that nasty scrape on your head, then you can rest a

    while, and I’ll help you upright the cart later.”

    “That’s mighty nice of you,” I answered, “but I don’t

    think my wife will like me doing that!”

    “Oh, come on now,” she insisted. “We need to see if you

    have any more scrapes and treat them if so”.

    Well, after all, she was really pretty, and very, very persuasive.

    Being sort of shaken and weak, I finally agreed, but repeated,

    “I’m sure my wife won’t like this.”

    We walked to her place just a 100 yards away, and after a

    couple of Scotch and waters and the bandaging, I thanked her

    and said, “I feel a lot better now, but I know my wife

    is going to be really upset, so I’d better go now.”

    “Don’t be silly!” she said with a smile, letting her robe fall

    even more open “Stay for a while. She won’t know

    anything, and by the way, where is she?”

    I replied, “Still under the cart, I guess.”

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  11. It’s somewhat amusing listening to talking heads befuddled at how Americans could ‘unwittingly’ be conversing ‘face to face’ with Russians and not recognize it through accents and such. Back in the day while visiting Soviet Russia, one of the places we were taken to in Moscow was a Russian school full of advanced students who spoke perfect ‘American-style’ English. We were being used, of course, for practice in the interaction, but the experience was an education for both sides– and remains a disturbing memory. Those Russians we talked with, all grown up now, spoke English, slang and all, with a knowledge base and accent free fluency that made them easily pass as residents from Virginia, California or Ohio.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  12. Let’s see an example of the news stories the Russians allegedly paid for.

    Did they get their monies worth? Did anything penetrate down to the papertiger level of consumption?

    papertiger (c8116c) — 2/16/2018 @ 4:20 pm

    Russians paying for election influencing news stories is like someone paying for porn.

    Pinandpuller (4d8c18)

  13. So you collaborated with Nazis and Communists. Interesting.

    Pinandpuller (4d8c18)

  14. Is this just a confident lawyer who’s confident that Mueller’s winding up without going after his client? Or this a lawyer who’s merely trying to appear very confident, who’s actually whistling his way past the graveyard? Either way, I applaud the style:

    President Trump’s personal lawyer John Dowd praised special counsel Robert Mueller on Friday after Mueller’s office announced indictments targeting 13 Russian nationals for allegedly conspiring to interfere in the 2016 election.

    Dowd told The Daily Beast that Mueller’s team did “a hell of a job,” adding that he believed the special counsel “found the culprits” behind Russian efforts to interfere in the 2016 presidential election.

    “I think the special counsel found the culprits. I think he did a good job. I think he did a hell of a job,” Dowd said, adding that the indictment “speaks for itself.”

    Dowd added that he believed Trump was pleased with the developments in Mueller’s investigation, which has also launched indictments against four people connected to the president’s campaign in previous months.

    “I’m sure [Trump] is happy,” Dowd said. “We’ve had a lot of faith in Bob Mueller and his team and it makes you feel good when they do a good job. They got these bastards who tried to hurt the country.”

    That’s spinning at about 1000 RPMs, I’d guestimate. But it sure beats dancing around and acting like the POTUS has something to hide.

    I wonder if they’ve struck a deal with Mueller on the scope of Trump’s interview, or if that’s still being negotiated?

    Patterico, I for one was very intrigued by this new post. I confess that I’ve not yet read the Browder book and I don’t know who is or isn’t close to Putin. If Gates really is in the process of flipping, that can’t be good for Manafort. Your details tend to confirm the working assumption I’ve had since even before Manafort left the Trump campaign — even based on his disclosed interests with Russia and Ukraine, it seemed inconceivable to me that he wouldn’t have something that needed hiding, and that he was therefore a disastrous hiring choice by the clown car Trump campaign.

    The big question remains: What if anything does Manafort have on Trump that Manafort could trade to Mueller — whether it does or doesn’t relate to Russia in any way? Does anything in today’s indictments tend to bear on that question, as you see it?

    Let me toss a handful of further questions out there, for you or others who have been following the Russia sanctions recent history more closely than I have:

    At least some of the named defendants are alleged to have come to the U.S., and the objects of their criminal conspiracy was located here. Whether they’re ever extradited, won’t this public indictment significantly restrict the places in the world to which they may safely travel?

    The indictment seeks some forfeiture relief. Either through that, or through something like the Magnitsky Act or other sanctions legislation, doesn’t this also put their foreign assets at risk?

    Is it possible that some or all of these defendants can be tried in abstentia?

    Beldar (fa637a)

  15. what corrupt fbi dildo-lick Robert Mueller describes in his notional indictment seems like way more of a learning exercise on somebody’s part than a serious effort to affect an outcome

    this fact set describes people tasked with developing tools and strategies using newer communications modalities – exploring how social media could be harnessed to stage rallies and protests and such

    and there’s nothing particularly wrong with that – and at any given point the CNN Jake Tapper fake news propaganda sluts could have asked questions or “followed the money” – that’s just not what they do anymore

    the idea that anything criminal happened here and is going to be prosecuted buy the same DOJ jack-offs that didn’t raise an eyebrow when the food stamp campaign disabled all safeguards for international credit card donations is risible

    oh my goodness this is a silly sandbox for even our inept and juvenile fbi pansy-asses to be playing in

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  16. I guess Nikolas Cruz needed to try to influence an election to get the FBI’s attention.

    random viking (6a54c2)

  17. oopers prosecuted *by* the same DOJ jack-offs i mean

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  18. Dowd has been foolish to give Mueller the benefit of the doubt,
    And I think he has here, the implicit notion of this investigation has been that the election was illegitimate because of Russian interference,

    narciso (d1f714)

  19. Trump is crazy if he agrees to questioning by Mueler.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHUI5vBajdI

    Anonymous (d41cee)

  20. The WSJ shares your interest in Prigozhin, Patterico: Kremlin Caterer Accused in U.S. Election Meddling Has History of Dishing Dark Arts, subhead: “An online army accused of sowing discord among American voters in the 2016 election emerged from a corner of the business empire of Yevgeny Prigozhin, the Kremlin’s favorite restaurateur.”

    Beldar (fa637a)

  21. Yes probably Glenn Simpson hand me downs,

    narciso (d1f714)

  22. Found video of Mueller cobbling together the charges.
    https://youtu.be/43RLxE_6jOQ

    papertiger (c8116c)

  23. The indictment seeks some forfeiture relief. Either through that, or through something like the Magnitsky Act or other sanctions legislation, doesn’t this also put their foreign assets at risk?

    Interpol Red Notices, too, like they pulled on Bill Browder. Turnabout.

    nk (dbc370)

  24. So when Zuckerberg brin Dorsey and Co, acted as a cartel to support president Obama, how could we consider that a free information space.

    narciso (d1f714)

  25. Mr Beldar

    No matter the outcome Meryl Streep will not be deterred from a standing ovation for The Russian 13.

    Pinandpuller (a68744)

  26. ” and it’s therefore proven that Trump had Russian help

    Well, yes, that’s been blindingly obvious for months. The question is not whether Mueller is a Russian stooge, but rather why we needed Mueller to confirm it happened. The FBI ought to have been able to do thus all on its own, and do it before Nov 2016.

    There is no hint of collusion in this indictment, no hint that Trump or anyone in his campaign had any inkling of it. But like Manafort, it raises the question of who was vetting for Trump, and how well. Particularly in reference to Manafort: was Team Trump not in a position to discover Manafort’s connection to the Kremlin–or did they simply feel it was not important.

    Kishnevi (27beb6)

  27. Many of the Russian trolls are Americans.

    But they didn’t know it. Breibart tools?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  28. “There is no allegation in this indictment that any American was a knowing participant… no allegation in this indictment that the election outcome was altered in any way…” to paraphrase Rosenstein…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  29. 17
    I seldom agree with you, arbitrarily chosen Norseman, but that comment is well saud.

    Kishnevi (27beb6)

  30. Attempted Homicide is always a lesser offense kernel. But still a felony.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  31. Right who didn’t know manafort hadn’t worked in Russia, just like he had worked for savimbi Marcos and mobutu, at various times,

    narciso (d1f714)

  32. Does ConDave have a key to teh Highway? He gonna need it, the wheels is off teh wagon…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  33. I think Nabisco means SVR

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  34. Call it clutching at straws, but the Lefty side of my Twitter feed is making much of the supposed specifity in Rosenstein’s word choice :THIS indictment, in contrast to other indictments supposed to be coming in the future.

    Kishnevi (27beb6)

  35. Hasn’t that chicken turned yet, Burned? It must be rotten by now, you sick fook.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  36. The troll farm’s existence was first documented in a 2013 report from Russian newspaper Novaya Gazeta and its inner workings first detailed in a 2014 article from BuzzFeed News.
    According to the indictment, Concord was the agency’s primary source of funding for its 2016 operation. Prigozhin allegedly approved and supported the campaign and acted with the full knowledge of the other defendants.

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/hayesbrown/these-are-the-russians-charged-with-meddling-in-the-2016?utm_term=.clZaaDzWE#.uiZ660OoB

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  37. They should have waited. Till mcmafia premiered, on a&e or red sparrow in two weeks, what was the urgency now.

    Don’t get me wrong I’m on team navalny, impart because he is blunt spoken when others have more tactful

    narciso (d1f714)

  38. you stand here convicted willingly of rudeness; jack rollin'; sneak-theivery; chlor hydrating; sodomy; strangulation; and enthusiastic corruption of the the public good.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  39. Does ConDave have a key to teh Highway? He gonna need it, the wheels is off teh wagon…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 2/16/2018 @ 5:18 pm

    He bought Michael Hasting’s car down to the auto auction. It’s almost as famous as Buford Pusser’s Corvette.

    Pinandpuller (a68744)

  40. All this going on and Obama’s still mewling about how flexible While golfing, I took a quick turn to avoid hitting a chuck hole,

    and accidentally overturned my golf cart.

    A very beautiful and attractive golfer, who lived right there

    on the edge of the golf course, heard the noise, came

    running out of her villa and shouted, “Are you okay?”

    As I looked up I noticed she was wearing only a silky see

    through bath robe which was partially open, revealing what

    appeared to be a VERY nice figure.

    “I’m okay I think,” I replied as I pulled myself out from

    under the twisted cart.

    She said, “Please follow me to my villa so I can clean and

    bandage that nasty scrape on your head, then you can rest a

    while, and I’ll help you upright the cart later.”

    “That’s mighty nice of you,” I answered, “but I don’t

    think my wife will like me doing that!”

    “Oh, come on now,” she insisted. “We need to see if you

    have any more scrapes and treat them if so”.

    Well, after all, she was really pretty, and very, very persuasive.

    Being sort of shaken and weak, I finally agreed, but repeated,

    “I’m sure my wife won’t like this.”

    We walked to her place just a 100 yards away, and after a

    couple of Scotch and waters and the bandaging, I thanked her

    and said, “I feel a lot better now, but I know my wife

    is going to be really upset, so I’d better go now.”

    “Don’t be silly!” she said with a smile, letting her robe fall

    even more open “Stay for a while. She won’t know

    anything, and by the way, where is she?”

    I replied, “Still under the cart, I guess.”

    All of this going on and Obama’s still mewling about his flexibility. What a price this nation will ultimately pay for his malfeasance.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  41. Wow… serious iPhone malfunction!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  42. They have tried to hornswoggle him, juntas they are doing to bibi, becauaeon balance the israeli lawfare group wants a prime minister that knuckles down to the Palestinians.

    narciso (d1f714)

  43. An elderly person walks into an upscale cocktail lounge.

    He is well into his eighties, very well-dressed, hair well-groomed, great looking suit, flower in his lapel, and smelling slightly of an expensive after shave.

    He presents a very nice image.

    Seated at the bar is a classy looking lady in her mid-seventies.

    The sharp old gentleman walks over and sits alongside her.

    He orders a drink and takes a sip.

    He slowly turns to the lady and says:

    “So, tell me… do I come here often?”

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  44. It seems clear the Russians named in the indictment were under investigation for the last several years of the Obama administration but as Politico reported last August:

    Officials outside the White House blamed micromanagement by the National Security Council for the lack of a more forceful response, while a former NSC official says any failure to act forcefully against Russia was because of concerns by the State Department and, less frequently, the Defense Department about potential retaliation by Moscow.

    So did DOJ act with or without DOS/DOD coordination and WH approval? Briefing the WH shortly before announcing a likely unenforceable indictment implicating Russia of waging Information War seems unwise.

    Your Redstate colleague streiff makes a good point:

    The real question is why, in light of what seems to have been known before the election, was this project allowed to proceed with no interference from U.S. counterintelligence. If the administration was really that afraid of “pissing off” the Russians, then one explanation is that they assumed the program would be as ineffectual and joke-worthy as it turned out to be and they assumed that Hillary Clinton would win so it wouldn’t matter.

    And why did the past administration not brief the Clinton and Trump campaigns on the subversive Russian activities that were taking place around them?

    crazy (d99a88)

  45. @23 Makes you wonder why such hard cases stroll to the gallows real casual like.

    Pinandpuller (a68744)

  46. I BLAME OBAMA!!!

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  47. A foolish consistency…

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  48. @ Kish (#35): That observation is accurate, but I think that is exactly the “by the book” way that a federal prosecutor is supposed to hold such a press conference: He’s supposed to let the indictment speak for itself, and to stay the hell within the confines of what’s in that particular indictment. He’s not supposed to make an ounce of new news. And he’s definitely not supposed to say, “And oh, by the way, about that press conference I held a few months ago to talk about a criminal investigation that didn’t result in an indictment ….”

    He did not say, for example, that these 13 named defendants won’t be joined by others in this very case, or that there won’t be other defendants on related or similar charges named in new, future indictments. And he certainly didn’t purport to speak to any of the other many threads of Trump-specific controversies and how they may someday play out in a big picture that’s still, for now, being carefully concealed.

    At this point, though, I think it would be at least mildly surprising for there to be further Russians indicted on this sort of election-interference allegations. Beyond that, anyone who’s not named Rod Rosenstein or Bob Mueller (or on one of their respective teams) is just guessing about future indictments.

    My strong impression is that there’s likely a parallel memorandum that’s been given, or will be given, to Rosenstein by Mueller to address any and all other parts of the results of Mueller’s investigation into Russian interference — something that’s presumably broader, and that may include a ton of sources & methods stuff that is still very hush-hush. My impression, in other words, is that Mueller’s probably done, or almost completely done, on the original foreign intelligence investigation with which he was charged.

    But if, say, Manafort won’t plead and insists on a jury trial, that may take many, many more months to resolve, just by itself. So I don’t think Mueller is going back to Wilmer Hale anytime soon.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  49. Manafort picked a bad time to take up free weights…

    Pinandpuller (a68744)

  50. Don’t look at the guy amongst the pansies, eh Ben?

    Pinandpuller (a68744)

  51. Seeing as judge Sullivan has sought a review of the terms under which general flynn plea was secured, he might very well want to hold out.

    We know one of Mueller’s subordinates performance, weissman in the scarps case

    narciso (d1f714)

  52. 48… beenburned gets introspective on us…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  53. A foolish – some might add mulish – consistency…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  54. How long was the Chapman ring operating in the states, and were there no charges against any in contact with them, just deporting them in 2010

    narciso (d1f714)

  55. After the election, another oligarchy pressed ahead. This one included Susan Rice, Samantha Power, etc. Obama is the biggest oligarch of them all, and he uses other oligarchs (who owe their power to their ability to please Obama) to do his bidding.

    AZ Bob (f60c80)

  56. Meanwhile in the UK, someone who was close to stb PLO Ira et al is this close to becoming prime minister.

    narciso (d1f714)

  57. Is it possible that some or all of these defendants can be tried in absentia?
    entia?

    No.

    AZ Bob (f60c80)

  58. Adam Schiff
    sh!tstain of a stiff
    just another Dimocrat
    Plying teh grift

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  59. Another question for those here with more background than I in pleading conspiracies:

    The indictment uses this phrase in paragraph 2: “From in or around 2014 to the present, Defendants knowingly and intentionally conspired with each other (and with persons known and unknown to the Grand Jury), to [yada yada crime crime crime].” I have a vague impression from somewhere that the parenthetical phrase may just be a stylistic remnant for days of yore, something that is thrown into every conspiracy indictment as a matter of course and tradition.

    But I thought when I read it: “Does that mean Putin”?

    Crazy commented on the previous post that making decisions about going public with criminal charges against foreign government officials is a big deal that might require consultation outside just the DoJ and FBI — my paraphrase, hope I got that approximately right — and I agree that such decisions ought be made by the DoJ after consultation with other parts of government, obviously including intelligence and diplomatic agencies. I have a vague recollection of that general subject being debated in public to at least some degree during the Obama Administration in connection, again, with Magnitsky and other sanctions issues; it seemed like the United States took a fairly bold step across an international Rubicon when we, as a country, started making things a lot more personal when it comes to the Russian klepto-oligarchs. Nevertheless, I assume that consultations were had, and that the unnamed co-conspirators remained unnamed for whatever reason or combination of reasons Rosenstein & Mueller decided was appropriate.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  60. Oddly neither pridokhno or progizhin were mentioned in the dossier, how could this be?

    narciso (d1f714)

  61. Maybe Putin was aghast at how easy it was to bribe Hillary Clinton in the Uranium One deal and decided that such a person shouldn’t rise to the top job. After all there was no indication she would STAY bought and they feared that an opponent might offer more.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  62. But I thought when I read it: “Does that mean Putin”?

    From my understanding of federal conspiracies, it usually means a government informant, Beldar. Or innocent dupes. A federal conspiracy can have only one person with the requisite mens rea.

    nk (dbc370)

  63. So the media and the Democrats – but I repeat myself – have spent the last 16 months colluding with these Russkies and effectively doing their bidding… sowing discontent, conflict, you name it. Shameful, but as most know, they don’t shame or embarrass easy.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  64. In that sense, there appeals a relatively reasonable successor:

    http://telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/02/16/cyril-ramaphosa-heralds-new-dawn-south-africa-promises-tackle

    narciso (d1f714)

  65. I submit that Obama was teh mons veneris in this thing, nk…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  66. The documents show instructions provided to the commenters that detail the workload expected of them. On an average working day, the Russians are to post on news articles 50 times. Each blogger is to maintain six Facebook accounts publishing at least three posts a day and discussing the news in groups at least twice a day. By the end of the first month, they are expected to have won 500 subscribers and get at least five posts on each item a day. On Twitter, the bloggers are expected to manage 10 accounts with up to 2,000 followers and tweet 50 times a day.

    They got paid by the tweet. No wonder you can’t point to any story they impacted. They had no impact. This is stupid as a harrassment seminar at a fish packing plant.

    Proactive counterint action would be to reactivate the thumbs down counter on Disqus.

    Course that would screw the Democrats worse than any trash talk by russian squirrels.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  67. 55. Media reports say the plot dated back to the 90’s. Some of the illegals were here for a decade. Some like Chapman were newer arrivals (2009).

    Some things never change:

    The spies’ mission was spelled out in one communication sent to two of the defendants: ‘Your education, bank accounts, car, house etc. – all these serve one goal: fullfil your main mission, i.e to search and develop ties in policymaking circles in US and send intels’ to the Moscow Centre’, the Kremlin’s spy HQ.

    crazy (d99a88)

  68. Of course I read once upon a time in Russia, and berezovskys biography by the late klebnikov, so I’m somewhat aware of how business has been conducted over there for the last 20 years, progozhin to my recollection doesn’t appear in any of those, even Ben judahs was he in forbes?

    narciso (d1f714)

  69. But don’t take my word for it. Lets ask our resident. Hey BEN how much does Putin pay you per derp?

    papertiger (c8116c)

  70. Much like dgse has moved to corporate espionage at least back in the 90s, the war on terror may have refocused their mission.

    narciso (d1f714)

  71. I think it’s suspicious that Mueller is shoving such a wedge into the GOP civil war by making Cruz and Rubio into victims of Trump’s (however indirect or non-existent) malfeasance.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  72. Obama knew all this was going on and he was so upset that he told Putin, “hey, cut it out.”

    AZ Bob (f60c80)

  73. I don’t trust the Russia ,preguntame por que (ask me why) but I need more to go on than this thin gruel, whh one of the Mcguffin villains in the last die hard film ‘I hate everything your country stands for’ maybe sending summers wheelhouse gang to shake the country up like ant farm might engender illwill.

    narciso (d1f714)

  74. 69. You know the Russkies far better than I do. I thought a link down memory lane might be add to the conversation.

    crazy (d99a88)

  75. The question remains: WHY did Putin disfavor Hillary and favor Trump?

    Answer #1: He thought Trump could be controlled.
    Answer #2: He thought Trump was more likely to align with Russia.
    Answer #3: He didn’t trust Hillary and wanted anyone else.
    Answer #4: He wanted to destabilize the US government.
    Answer #5: Because he could.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  76. And the other questions:

    What effect, if any, did it have?
    What were the fake news stories that were pushed? Everything that Wikileaks published was God’s honest truth.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  77. Question #1: who did the Russians grease with million$ when they needed uranium?

    harkin (6c3294)

  78. Funny thing. Trump’s bombed his team twice now in Syria.

    crazy (d99a88)

  79. For me, this whole metastasizing collusion Medusa has passed its go-off date. Who cares how many Russian trolls can dance on the edge of a computer chip? Enough already.

    Let’s direct our attention to first phase high priority tasks like rounding-up illegals with felony convictions and MS-13 gangsters and running them the hell out of here – never to return. Well begun is half done.

    ropelight (194a2b)

  80. Seeing as bystrov, the Moscow police chief was put in charge of this outfit back in 2014. Of recent chronicles lessens I found overwrought, hoardings last unsubstantial, but his successor as guardians Moscow bureau chief, Sean walker was interesting.

    narciso (d1f714)

  81. “I guess Nikolas Cruz needed to try to influence an election to get the FBI’s attention.

    If his Facebook comment had said he was with the Trump campaign and had spread Russian disinformation to damage Hillary there would have been multiple agents assigned day 1.

    Instead all they did was ignore a sincere death threat toward children.

    harkin (6c3294)

  82. Another take:

    All of these defendants are beyond the reach of US law. So, these charges will not be tested in court, and Mueller knows that. It is at least conceivable that these charges were issued to bolster the idea that Trump’s victory is illegitimate. Even today, the news media is using these (unproven_ charges as “proof” that Trump got an unfair advantage, when it is actually proof of nothing other than a grand jury saw a ham sandwich.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  83. That’s the gist of it, heck I see fake news everytime I open up the Yahoo newsfeed,

    narciso (d1f714)

  84. Question #1: who did the Russians grease with million$ when they needed uranium?

    Yes, and is a hopelessly corrupt US President in Russia’s best interest?

    Kevin M (752a26)

  85. oh my goodness Mueller’s even more of a coward than John McCain

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  86. hrm

    they’re at least tied anyway

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  87. No fair, the fish may have genuinely been harassed, seriously this is the carp they have been working on for a year and a half?

    narciso (d1f714)

  88. how is what sleazy corrupt Mueller’s super-nefarious Russkies supposedly did any different than what fascist googleturd Eric Schmidt did on a much much larger scale?

    Digging deeper, she discovered that Google was one of the big donors behind First Draft’s “fake news” messaging. Google’s parent company, Alphabet, was run by Eric Schmidt, who happened to be a huge Hillary Clinton supporter.

    Schmidt “offered himself up as a campaign adviser and became a top multi-million donor to it. His company funded First Draft around the start of the election cycle,” Attkisson said. “Not surprisingly, Hillary was soon to jump aboard the anti-fake news train and her surrogate David Brock of Media Matters privately told donors he was the one who convinced Facebook to join the effort.”

    Attkisson declared that “the whole thing smacked of the roll-out of a propaganda campaign.”

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  89. They have tried to hornswoggle him, juntas they are doing to bibi, becauaeon balance the israeli lawfare group wants a prime minister that knuckles down to the Palestinians.

    narciso (d1f714) — 2/16/2018 @ 5:31 pm
    I find it hard to to grok that others can not grok the idea that Israelis don’t want a gonif as PM, simply because he is a gonif. Just as some Americans think a gonif should not be President.

    But Israel is ahead of the US in at least one thing. When they realized their President was a rapist, they put him in jail.

    Kishnevi (27beb6)

  90. All of these defendants are beyond the reach of US law. So, these charges will not be tested in court, and Mueller knows that. It is at least conceivable that these charges were issued to bolster the idea that Trump’s victory is illegitimate. Even today, the news media is using these (unproven_ charges as “proof” that Trump got an unfair advantage, when it is actually proof of nothing other than a grand jury saw a ham sandwich.

    Mmmm that’s a hot take. But not as hot as Penelope Cruz, who was in some ridiculous Versace docudrama thing my wife and daughter are watching.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  91. As opposed to rabin and barak, one who gave away the store, the second who tried to, but atafat wanted the whole mall,

    narciso (d1f714)

  92. I’m torn. I’m truly cynical about the whole Trump-Hillary-Putin thing, trusting none of the players. The safe bet is that they are all lying. So, when I see indictments that will never be tested I just get a little distrustful. It would have been far better had there been a US person as co-conspirator even if that person had nothing to do with Trump. Then at least facts and evidence would be tested in a court of law. As it is now, it will only be tested in the court of the Washington Post, which would never get past voir dire.

    The other thing is what reason would Putin have? This also depends on whether or not Hillary is as corrupt as she seems. Maybe it’s as some are saying — that Putin just wants to destabilize the US. If so, that calls for a response.

    The only thing I’m sure of is that it isn’t part of a Trumpian master plan.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  93. Also left unsaid in this “Trump got unfair help” meme is was the Russian “fake news” more effective than the MSM tilt towards Hillary? The inverse-square law would suggest that domestic propaganda is far more effective than distant foreign propaganda.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  94. Reading through the charges against Netanyahu it occured to me, if any of these were crimes in Schindler’s day there wouldn’t have been a movie.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  95. what’s the precedent for some slicked-up fbi turd like Mueller to spend millions making up a phony dog and pony show he has no intention of ever prosecuting?

    is this a classic fbi thing like gay porn and skittles?

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  96. The inverse-square law would suggest that domestic propaganda is far more effective than distant foreign propaganda.– Kevin M (752a26) — 2/16/2018 @ 7:06 pm

    I like it.

    felipe (023cc9)

  97. 91.

    It’s not so much a hot take. Springs to mind fast. And has been written up by people who know all that lawyer stuff and essay writing. Gerd speelers too! 😉

    There is a huge amount of background, narrative, conspiracy, etc. (of a political/newsy nature) in that indictment and then not that much on the real crimes (I will grant the misuse of others identities for sure, perhaps some of the others). I mean I could pull out the old JO skills and start some numbered list of paragraphs (JAGMAN Investigation style) to describe the DOGFBI oversteps (e.g. Ohr duo). Would it be right or not? Maybe…but that is subject to argument in a connected fashion as a report. Not this sort of “tada” numbered paragraph connecting.

    Even the “posting 50 tweets a day”. Would it make a difference to the indictment if it had been 5 times a day or 500? Is it even a crime for Russians to tweet a lot about US politics? (Should it be?) Is it a crime to go to a country and then post a bunch of tweets about it? If I do it in the US on UK, should I watch out?

    Yes, I agree there was a troll factory and an effort to astroturf. Should we(in all seriousness) go investigate and punish domestic astroturf operations? How about when DKOS mobilizes to help Amazon ratings for a liberal book? Americans are allowed to astroturf but not Russians? (Does that even really make sense?) Is it something to seriously spend time on?

    Anonymous (d41cee)

  98. @ AZ Bob (#58): Thank you for answering my question, which after 10 seconds googling I now blush to have asked. You were kind.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  99. “We do it, too,” eh Captain? Have Sean run that up the flag pole for ‘ya in a few days and see who salutes.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  100. The Russian apparatus was probably there in 2012 to dissuade a certain cohort away from Romney, clearly Obama was the more pliant mark and Mitt did himself no favors when he called out Russia as greatest adversary.

    urbanleftbehind (32f72a)

  101. Wait you mean the Russians helped Obama, their star pupil even more that John Forbes (yes of the opium trading ones) Kerry.

    narciso (d1f714)

  102. Sciblogs, based in Canada, which consists of Richard Dawkins drones (attacking them bible thumpers) and global warming beliebers (attacking real scientists), is financed entirely from the US.

    Don’t tell me those dirty back stabbing [edit]ers don’t have an effect on US elections.

    Desmog blog was in a conspiracy with Peter Glieck to commit identity theft and wire fraud directly affecting California elections.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  103. The other thing is what reason would Putin have? This also depends on whether or not Hillary is as corrupt as she seems. Maybe it’s as some are saying — that Putin just wants to destabilize the US. If so, that calls for a response.
    People seem to forget that Trump was making remarks that made him sound as the friendliest candidate to Russia in my lifetime (not counting overt Communists, Jill Stein, etc.)Remarks that could be seen as giving Putin a green light in Eastern Europe, Syria, and domestic repression.

    Perhaps Trump thoroughly conned Putin.

    Kishnevi (27beb6)

  104. Yes, Tovarich Anonymous, it is illegal (that means against the law) for persons who are not U.S. citizens or U.S. permanent residents to contribute to federal election campaigns, whether in cash or in kind. Tell Vovoshka the next time you see him.

    nk (dbc370)

  105. You mean the way Obama and Hillary actually did, for eight years, yes the Ukraine hot #hashtag and food rations, there were some minor sanctions after they blew a civilian airliner out of the sky, but that was about it.

    narciso (d1f714)

  106. The other question is how did Trump know that the election was fixed as he repeatedly stated before November 8?

    nk (dbc370)

  107. Right, like the phone banks in Gaza in 2008, tell me another one

    narciso (d1f714)

  108. This article, from an untrustworthy but anti-Trump source (that couldn’t seem to find an anti-Trump angle to spin yet), indicates that the guy whose sealed guilty plea was released today just after Rosenstein’s press conference, Richard Pinedo, was just your garden-variety cockroach who scurried out while Mueller’s guys were running down the list of Americans whom the Russians used as unwitting dupes. In his case, he was a criminal in addition to being an unwitting dupe, but just a garden-variety criminal who didn’t know that the clients to whom he was selling stolen bank account numbers (that he has admitted to taking illegal pains not to have known were stolen, if I followed it correctly) to the Russians for use in financing their fake media operations. If so, he seems an extremely unlikely candidate to flip and implicate anyone connected to Trump.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  109. People seem to forget that Trump was making remarks that made him sound as the friendliest candidate to Russia in my lifetime“

    — –

    “But in an unscripted moment picked up by camera crews, the American president was more blunt: Let me get reelected first, he said; then I’ll have a better chance of making something happen.

    “On all these issues, but particularly missile defense, this, this can be solved, but it’s important for him to give me space,” Obama can be heard telling Medvedev, apparently referring to incoming Russian president — and outgoing prime minister — Vladi­mir Putin.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/obama-tells-medvedev-solution-on-missile-defense-is-unlikely-before-elections/2012/03/26/gIQASoblbS_story.html?utm_term=.8c69c1e40f1b

    Not as bad as Ted Kennedy asking the Russians to help defeat Reagan but pretty dang friendly.

    harkin (6c3294)

  110. They had matching towels at the banya

    narciso (d1f714)

  111. You know, to most people “you’re behaving like such and such” is a criticism not a defense. Unless it’s something praiseworthy, like “You dance like Fred Astaire”, in which case it’s praise. Do you think behaving like Obama is praiseworthy?

    nk (dbc370)

  112. Your talking about legality, not ethics, of course there were no prosecutions, the statuture of limitations has lapsed on fast and furious, probably even going after Hillary.

    narciso (d1f714)

  113. OT but if you’re in the SW region this could be another good sky show around dawn on Sunday if skies are clear and lighting cooperates:

    PAZ Mission | SpaceX – http://www.spacex.com/webcast

    SpaceX is targeting a Falcon 9 launch of the PAZ satellite to low-Earth orbit on Sunday, February 18 from Space Launch Complex 4 East (SLC-4E) at Vandenberg Air Force Base, California. The instantaneous launch opportunity is at 6:16 a.m. PST.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  114. “Do you think behaving like Obama is praiseworthy?”

    Who’s saying they behaved similarly?

    Pointing out Obama’s was a dishonest tool willing to actually work behind the scenes to do Russia’s bidding is much worse than anything I’ve heard about Trump. Add to that the multiple offenses against the American people from the IRS to the Iran nuke deal and Trump hasn’t even dipped his toe into the deep pool of Obama treason.

    harkin (6c3294)

  115. “But why bring up this apparently old news, in the face of Mueller’s latest mockery of the American judicial process and the First Amendment? Because it reveals in the words of the legacy press that by definition Mueller’s circus has zero interest in campaign or election integrity and is solely interested in getting scalps for Clinton and for the unelected powers she represented.

    Despite obvious hypocrisy given the actions of Shareblue and David Brock’s Correct The Record, corporate media ignored all double standards and attempted to report on “Russian twitter trolling” with a straight face. Business Insider wrote: “Russian Twitter Trolls Tried To Bury Or Spin Negative Trump News Just Before Election,” as if that wasn’t what Correct The Record spent millions on doing for the benefit of Clinton.

    The double standards applied to Clinton for her benefit goes beyond hypocrisy. Many have claimed that constantly metamorphosing allegations of Russian interference represents an insidious effort to silence dissent and anti-establishment political discourse: for example, by turning third-party, anti-establishment or conservative voices into “Russians” by proxy of their opposition to Clinton.

    By converting legitimate American free speech into insidious “Russian bots,” a pretext is created to silence dissent across the board. Without the Russian interference circus, the efforts to breach the First Amendment would be overtly authoritarian and would be inexcusable even by the most corrupt establishment media standards.

    The results of such a clamp-down on free and effective speech have manifested in censorship crackdowns across large social media platforms including Twitter, Youtube, and Facebook, with Twitter admitting to actively censoring roughly 48% of tweets that included the “#DNCEmails” hashtag. It seems anyone with an opinion the establishment doesn’t like is liable to be memory-holed.”

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-02-16/muellers-investigation-farce-files-joke-indictment-against-russian-trolls

    harkin (6c3294)

  116. The FEC has always been dysfunctional, and it was especially so in 2008 with two Republicans and two Democrats deadlocking each other. But I include Obama’s “flexibility” to Medvedev referenced by harkin. Maybe Trump meant his praise of Putin at the time and was later edumacated by his staff, or maybe he was just shooting off his mouth, but it remains that it did go out of his mouth and to Putin’s ears.

    nk (dbc370)

  117. We didn’t want 30,000 jihadis straight from Syria with ISIS members liberally salted in. Putin has troops on the ground and more reason than us to quench the outflow.

    The stars lined up. Our goals aligned. Our guys already work as team in space. Why not work with Russians on terrestrial matters when we can?

    papertiger (c8116c)

  118. We cross-posted, harkin. I type slow.

    nk (dbc370)

  119. That goes double under Obama, papertiger, when we had Chechnyans blowing up Boston and Moscow.

    nk (dbc370)

  120. You mean the Dec, where learner hammerlocked salving for Durbin benefit, with the apparent approval of Larry noble that was a dozen years before.

    narciso (d1f714)

  121. I submit that Obama was teh mons veneris in this thing, nk…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 2/16/2018 @ 6:08 pm

    I was thinking the apex of the triangle, but ok.

    Pinandpuller (a68744)

  122. Funny thing. Trump’s bombed his team twice now in Syria.

    crazy (d99a88) — 2/16/2018 @ 6:26 pm

    I thought they were mercs. Like черныевода.

    Pinandpuller (a68744)

  123. Whose team do you think they were on pin? Let’s just call them черная вода

    crazy (d99a88)

  124. It’s a very big fluffy bun.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  125. Watching my 16 year old play for No. ranked team in state soccer championship so not able to post. But I’m generally in accord with the view that this “indictment” is more about PR than criminal justice. When I am at my computer I’ll point out some issues, a few of which the Special Counsel has already been called out on.

    Shipwreckedcrew (a048af)

  126. No 1 ranked team👍👍👍

    Shipwreckedcrew (a048af)

  127. I thought a black Russian was a drink.

    urbanleftbehind (32f72a)

  128. Let’s say that all these allegations are true. Putin did these things. Trolls were sent out. Lies were spread.

    Besides it being illegal and risible, how did it affect the campaign? Not in the sense that it makes it OK, but in the sense that Hillary gets to blame her loss on Putin. And the answer is: not a whole lot.

    For every troll Putin sent forth, 1000 trolls were spawned by the Washington Post alone, which if you followed the election, had no fewer than 5 front-page and/or editorial attacks on Trump each and every day. From their raft of leftist commentators to the WaPo’s token “right” (i.e. Jennifer Rubin) it was wall-to-wall diatribe and calumny regarding Mr Trump.

    Add to that CNN, ABC, CBS, The NY Times, and just about every hometown news outlet down to the community rags. Trump. No. Good.

    But somehow Putin’s double-sekrit operation transcended all that to lift Grump to victory?

    What utter rot. Goebbels would be embarrassed to push such nonsense.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  129. *GTrump

    Kevin M (752a26)

  130. I really would like to hear a cogent argument that Putin’s operation was instrumental in Trump’s victory. Please explain how it overcame the MSM’s din regarding Trump’s myriad faults, real, imagined and fever-dreamed.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  131. But somehow Putin’s double-sekrit operation transcended all that to lift Grump to victory?

    What utter rot. Goebbels would be embarrassed to push such nonsense.

    It’s pretty silly but it’s all the left has.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  132. Whose team do you think they were on pin? Let’s just call them черная вода

    crazy (d99a88) — 2/16/2018 @ 8:45 pm

    черная is one of the first words I learned from my Uzbek former coworker. It’s a lot like Canadian, if you know what I mean.

    Pinandpuller (a68744)

  133. Apparently a lot of these Russian and Russian adjacent types like eating horse meat. Dima wanted to bring some horse sausage back from California for me to try but fortunately I avoided it. It’s not my jam.

    Pinandpuller (a68744)

  134. Lies were spread.

    they didn’t just tweet lies to their followers they created other accounts and retweeted the same lies to some other followers

    you know what happens when someone does tweet on you

    jesus these people are monsters

    thank god the fbi was watching them do the tweets in case it got out of hand

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  135. I really would like to hear a cogent argument that Putin’s operation was instrumental in Trump’s victory.

    Was the Watergate break-in instrumental to Nixon’s victory in 1972?

    In terms of raw size, it seems unlikely that this operation – alone – changed the outcome of the election. On the other hand, the Russians were clearly aiming for a multiplier effect by targeting (and creating) “opinion leaders”. If each person they reached influenced the vote of several others, the numbers aren’t so small anymore. It was a close election.

    What is in the indictment represents what Mueller and Co. are confident they could prove in court based on the available evidence. It doesn’t mean it’s the full extent of what happened, in fact it almost certainly isn’t. This operation may have been one of several compartmented ones.

    We know that Trump’s son, son-in-law and campaign manager conspired directly with agents of the Russian government to achieve the same illegal aims. Manafort may have been (was likely, IMO) providing guidance to their efforts. We also know Flynn was in Putin’s pocket, but not (yet) how deeply.

    We also know that Donald Trump – the intended and actual beneficiary of these crimes – has repeatedly and corruptly denied, covered-up and concealed their existence, and attempted to thwart and discredit the investigation that resulted in today’s indictment. He has also opposed and failed to order necessary action to defend our country from further, similar attacks.

    It’s a bit like if, for more than a year after Pearl Harbor, FDR believed assurances from Hirohito over the word of our own military leaders, and insisted that we couldn’t be sure it was really the Japanese who bombed us, and refused to allow our forces in the field to fight back.

    Shameful. The Russians definitely chose their man well.

    Dave (445e97)

  136. The question remains: WHY did Putin disfavor Hillary and favor Trump?

    If your goal is to destabilize the US, and your choice is between

    1) Candidate A, who is a crook, or
    2) Candidate B, who is an utterly ignorant, mentally-ill crook

    which would you choose?

    Having trusted people close to Trump was likely another (related) factor

    Dave (445e97)

  137. People who have read the indictments point out that the operation continued after the election, and focused on #NotMyPresident. Which confirms that it was an ongoing campaign of destabilization, and not an attempt to elect Trump (except to the extent that was, itself, destabilizing).

    For example: http://dailycaller.com/2018/02/16/russia-trump-resistance-protests/

    I note that the indictments also talk about how the Russians tried to hamper Cruz and Rubio. No mention of Kasich there — maybe they didn’t take Kasich seriously. But it also feeds back into the GOP civil war, giving new ammunition to #NeverTrump.

    I think maybe Estonia needs a new air force base.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  138. “Unwitting”…. I believe it.

    noel (b4d580)

  139. I think both Dave and Kevin are pretty much on the money. Putin 1) wanted a weak sister to be elected — say like Trump, Sanders or Stein — and not someone like Cruz, Rubio or Hillary; and 2) wanted to delegitimize his or her Presidency (#NotMyPresident) upon his or her election.

    Putin is a strong leader, who has control of his country, but it is not in Russia’s interests for America to have one. It is in Russia’s interests to have a brilliant, stable genius who concerns himself with the size of his hands and the size of the crowd at his inauguration, and whether the Chinese will give trademark protection to his daughter’s schlock shmattes.

    nk (dbc370)

  140. As for Hillary being a crook, that would elicit a baffled “Huh?” followed by a snicker from Putin.

    nk (dbc370)

  141. I felt during the campaign that sites like Bannon’s Breitbart as well as Drudge and Sean Hannity were cheerleading Trump and criticizing others, especially Rubio. Strange for a primary election. And, later in the campaign, I suspected that the Russians were as well. I will assume that there was no “collusion” between them. But, who knows? Mueller, that’s who.

    noel (b4d580)

  142. If the Russians wanted to sow racial and religious division, they chose their candidate wisely.

    noel (b4d580)

  143. How is or was Hillary ever a strong leader? This is just an upside down world for anyone to think she ever was or could be.

    How does Mueller and the FBI have all of this “proof” yet they are convince, without proof of verification, that Hillary’s unprotected computer server, with the highest form of classified federal documents on it, was “never compromised by foreign actors”??

    Seriously? The Mueller investigation was supposed to be investigating collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russians to affect the election. I still do not see that connection or “collusion”. That the Russians interfere with our political process, and have been for decades, is a well known fact. That has nothing to do with the Trump campaign. The indictments yesterday specifically state no collusion with the Trump campaign.

    “And the mission, according to the indictment, was to push Trump and Bernie Sanders — anybody but Hillary, Ted Cruz, or Rubio:”

    Interesting that those candidates the Russian’s wanted to push didn’t include Mrs. Clinton. Considering her track record involving the Uranium deal and the desired Russian reset, i would have thought they would want Mrs. Clinton as a known quantity with which to deal.

    How do anyone ignore all of these contradictions?

    Where Eagles Dare (8f562c)

  144. Corpus delicti. My biggest criticism of the “collusion” investigation was they were putting the whodunnit before the whathappened. Now that Mueller has Russian meddling — The Crime — he has a legitimate interest in investigating who-all was involved.

    nk (dbc370)

  145. PS also how is it, that two of the worst active shooter episodes in American history, Vegas and now the HS in Florida, had warning signs all over them before these incidents happened that the FBI could have prevented both of them if they used even a fraction of the money and time they have used for the supposed “Russian collusion” farce that has produced zero results. These “charges” will result in how many “arrests”?

    In Vegas the shooter had child pornography on his computer. The FBI routining arrests people who have these and yet the Vegas shooter flies under the radar. Not only that but this guy was the son of an FBI most wanted list criminal. If you had made the arrest for the child porn you would have unearthed all of the rest of his mess. His computer also had other “disturbing searches” on it.

    Then the recent Florida shooter, handed to them on a platter and what? nothing. absolutely nothing.

    Also FBI was alerted to the Boston bomber brothers. Again, FBI non-action.

    The FBI obviously has incredible manpower, technological and surveillance resources, yet the only thing they seem to spend them on a get “results” is “Russian collusion”?? The indictments, especially Manafort’s, who would be the easiest to get Russian collusion dirt on, doesn’t even go there.

    The deep state has such hatred for Trump and those who voted for him, it seems they are willing to allow everything to suffer just to throw more negative press at Trump to insure he either:

    1) resigns
    2) makes a huge public blunder that he can never recover from
    3) makes such a negative opinion on his campaign and presidency that there is no way Republicans or Trump will win a future election that will either protect him from impeachment based on fake half-truth charges, or simply lose and leave office.

    yeah I truly believe their are unelected officials who control this government and alot of people just dont seem to care. Somehow Trump is the big satan and the one who can destroy our democracy. Yet our democracy seems cold & heartless right about now.

    cheers and have great president holiday weekend.

    Where Eagles Dare (8f562c)

  146. 152

    I agree with you on your first part, charges were drawn up first then the supposed “crime”. yet the “crime” charges said . or inferred, no one in the Trump campaign “knowingly cooperated.” Yet he can’t prove or hint that someone in Trump’s camp even did anything “unknowingly”.

    how is this an uncovered crime when Obama in June 2016 stated their is evidence of “Russian interference”?

    I just dont understand the logic at all. its simply to drip and drag all of this out to crush Trump under so much suspicion and negative news stories and late night comic hits, that he is toast.

    also our own CIA has the ability to use a Russian program:

    WikiLeaks published a large cache of CIA documents that it said showed the agency had equipped itself to run its own false-flag hacking operations. The documents describe an internal CIA group called UMBRAGE that WikiLeaks said was stealing the techniques of other nation-state hackers to trick forensic investigators into falsely attributing CIA attacks to those actors. According to WikiLeaks, among those from whom the CIA has stolen techniques is the Russian Federation, suggesting the CIA is conducting attacks to intentionally mislead investigators into attributing them to Vladimir Putin.

    yeah I believe all of this is “true” like horses change their coat color every 15 minutes.

    Where Eagles Dare (8f562c)

  147. It wasn’t that long ago when Russia was the bad guy and the FBI wore the white hat. Now, the same Trump folks who lied (yes, they lied repeatedly) about meeting with the Russians have convinced over half of Republicans that the FBI is the one that can’t be trusted. And even more believe that “witch hunt” baloney.

    Embarrassing.

    noel (b4d580)

  148. What we want to go with Russia, now, standard NATO doctrine was not engage unless they crossed the fulda gap, or invaded one of allies like tried to seize the Saudi oil fields. Back when they were toppling govts in central
    America, the likes of Dodd harking Kerry were fine with it. It was on
    Y when we introduced Pershing into Germany that many of these including Biden were agitated and not against us, then there is the case of Leon panneta

    narciso (d1f714)

  149. Pinandpuller @140. Seems the joke was on me. My apologies if I missed it.

    crazy (d99a88)

  150. How is or was Hillary ever a strong leader?

    “Strong leader” was not the best choice of words by nk, IMO.

    I intentionally avoided saying anything complimentary about either candidate, but I would have said “minimally qualified” (e.g. capable of understanding and formulating coherent positions on policy issues, willing to read and consider briefings, cognizant of the constitution and basic historical facts, etc).

    I think Hillary would have been a (slight) improvement on Obama, including in foreign policy. Her husband’s administration, on the whole, was certainly to the right of Obama’s on most policy matters.

    I don’t think she would have been a “strong leader” though due to her unpopularity. Obama, despite his relatively high popularity and strong retail political skills, accomplished nothing for the last 6 years of his administration thanks to the GOP House (and eventually Senate). Clinton would have had to compromise with the GOP, as her husband did (and Obama refused to do), or she could have accomplished nothing either.

    Dave (445e97)

  151. Let’s say that all these allegations are true. Putin did these things. Trolls were sent out. Lies were spread

    So?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  152. My biggest criticism of the “collusion” investigation was they were putting the whodunnit

    Yes. If only haste didn’t make such a waste of US treasure and lives we could afford to jump to our favorite conclusions.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  153. Trump was wrong when he said during a debate that the DNC hacker “could be somebody sitting on their bed that weighs 400 pounds.” It’s not fake news.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  154. We don’t know who the DNC hacker was. We haven’t gotten clear evidence on that. All we have is some intel statements that don’t show the smoking gun. And NSA guy didn’t agree with the other intel guys on “strong” opinion (was more moderate).

    We have already invaded Iraq based on “no brainer” opinions on WMD and embarrassed our Sec State with presentation to UN (and before that smoked a pharma factory in Sudan). I don’t expect perfection from intel opinions. The world is murky. And people have confirmation bias. They are human. But you have to not put too much trust in opinions sans smoking gun.

    Anonymous (d41cee)

  155. I used to enjoy reading Althouse when she was a conservative.

    Dave (445e97)

  156. In reality, there was more evidence of both terrorist ties to the mukharabat, (what black widow only admits at the end) and cbw than this
    Nothingberver.

    narciso (d1f714)

  157. The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.

    -Richard Feynman-

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  158. I don’t think the Gorgon would approve of something like ballot-day holiday because she don’t want people voting.

    Another day on the internet — people pretended to be what they are not. If you’re going to assume that readers of the internet are so naive as to take the crap that pops up on line at face value, you’re making the argument that we can’t even have a democracy at all. People are too stupid to vote

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  159. The answer is never, that’s why posesta and wwber were not indicted, neither was real life Michael Clayton (msu fixer) pat Fitzgerald sadden harps.

    narciso (d1f714)

  160. Strength is relative. Hillary was the strongest of the bunch, Cruz and Rubio included. She got street smarts. She made her husband governor and then President, herself Senator and Secretary of State, and both of them multimillionaires. Trump couldn’t even find a hooker who could keep her mouth shut.

    nk (dbc370)

  161. Doesnr California and new York prove that point, in spades. I’d add Massachusetts and Connecticut.

    narciso (d1f714)

  162. Mueller’s legal theory will never be tested in a court of law. But it is fodder for the NY Times.

    AZ Bob (f60c80)

  163. I mean take Elizabeth warren, even soul man, didn’t contemplate this threadbare a con.

    narciso (d1f714)


  164. Hillary was the strongest of the bunch,


    Yeah, that’s why she lost. Not only lost but lost to a guy who had zero political experience and had to cheat to get Bernie out of the race. Yeah, she was the strongest. Only you and she still believe that fairy tale. (And maybe a few million die-hard leftists still “screaming at the sky”) MAGA

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  165. 1.2 billion dollars and the cartelized backing of nearly all the networks, has to be explained away, the fact is she was as appealing as senator lurch (d mass)

    narciso (d1f714)

  166. “When will Mueller indict Christopher Steele, FusionGPS, PerkinsCoie, the DNC and the Clinton Campaign?”

    A truly ignorant question, and article, laced with embarrassing errors like this one:

    Special Counsel Robert Mueller indicted foreign citizens for trying to influence the American public about an election because those citizens did not register as a foreign agent nor record their financial expenditures to the Federal Elections Commission. By that theory, when will Mueller indict Christopher Steele, FusionGPS, PerkinsCoie, the DNC and the Clinton Campaign? Mueller’s indictment against 13 Russian trolls claimed their social media political activity was criminal because: they were foreign citizens;

    Being foreign citizens was no part of the indictment; they were indicted (among other things) for being unregistered agents of a foreign principal.

    Steele was working for an American company, subcontracted by an American law firm contracted by an American political campaign. He was not, by any reading of the Foreign Agent Registration Act, a foreign agent. The money paid to (indirectly) hire Fusion GPS was reported to election authorities.

    The Russians, on the other hand, would have been guilty of exactly the same crimes even if they had been American citizens. Because it wasn’t the fact that they were Russian that violated the law, it was the fact that they were working on behalf of a Russian organization.

    There is no law against hiring foreigners to provide some service (election law requires that you pay them the fair market value for the service, otherwise it would be an illegal gift), and a foreigner hired by an American to perform some service on their behalf is not working for a foreign principal, and is not a foreign agent.

    Hard to believe somebody writing for a blog called “Law and Crime” could be so ill-informed about such a simple and uncomplicated legal issue.

    Dave (445e97)

  167. I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but Deplorables and Russian meddling happeneth to them all. — Ecclesiastes 9:11

    nk (dbc370)

  168. nk (dbc370) — 2/17/2018 @ 8:33 am

    What he means is Old Testament, Mr. Hoagie, real wrath of God type stuff.

    Dave (445e97)

  169. Seriously the caterer, that’s as if blofeld was a sous chef, how could the shooter nit be obsessed with race, sex and violence. That is the curriculum in the modern educational institution. The currency in media, business and public affairs

    narciso (d1f714)

  170. @176 – yes, yes, the schadenfreude!

    Lenny (5ea732)

  171. ConDave gets stiffed… the only collusion appears to be the Dems and their media operatives doing the Russkies’ bidding, spreading discontent and conflict.

    Sad.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  172. You’ve learned nothing hoagie?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  173. “Trump couldn’t even find a hooker who could keep her mouth shut.”

    I suspect that would defeat the purpose, nk.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  174. Pretty much, but as lee Smith has pointed out, the marks (or accessories after the fact) can’t give up the game just yet.

    narciso (d1f714)

  175. Rimshot, of course we forget the crawdaddy cromwell carville, and his sage brush associate begalas great tact in these matters.

    narciso (d1f714)


  176. 183.You’ve learned nothing hoagie?
    Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 2/17/2018 @ 8:46 am


    Projecting again, comrade? It seems you’ve learned nothing if you believe somehow the loser was the stronger. But that may just make sense to a rad-leftist. Reality ain’t your forte. MAGA

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  177. No weinstein, spacey and Co. Were celebrated not so much for their great artistic vision, but in the way they defined deviancy down and made it acceptable.

    narciso (d1f714)

  178. How soon we forget. How many people thought Trump would win and to whom election night was not a shocker?

    nk (dbc370)

  179. Colonel Haiku @184. Would you agree that if you spend time with a collection of people who’ll do anything for money and fame, they’ll do it?

    crazy (d99a88)

  180. Oh, yes. It will be done.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  181. We’re through the looking glass here people*

    http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/255290/christopher-steele-putin-oleg-deripaska

    Kevin costner in his corn pone attics finch impression, in jfk, a film sourced from dezinforma

    narciso (d1f714)

  182. Let’s say that all these allegations are true. Putin did these things. Trolls were sent out. Lies were spread.

    Besides it being illegal and risible, how did it affect the campaign? Not in the sense that it makes it OK, but in the sense that Hillary gets to blame her loss on Putin. And the answer is: not a whole lot.

    I have already said I agree with this. The aggregate effect cannot have swung the election.

    But: consider this.

    The Russians had a well-known Twitter account: @TEN_GOP. It had a lot of followers. And someone who has commented more than once in this very thread cited that Twitter account once in a comment here. I looked it up.

    I won’t embarrass that person by naming them or linking to the comment — unless that person starts saying that the Russians never fooled anyone — but that should cause people here to pause a little bit. Shouldn’t it?

    Patterico (115b1f)

  183. “The Russians, on the other hand, would have been guilty of exactly the same crimes even if they had been American citizens. Because it wasn’t the fact that they were Russian that violated the law, it was the fact that they were working on behalf of a Russian organization.

    By this interpretation, Brack Obama should be held to account for his”flexibility”.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  184. Come on. Trump’s women have always been store-bought, ever since his daddy was supplying him with escorts when he was in military school. He wouldn’t know how to go about finding a like-minded, discreet lady, who also only wanted a little on the side, for a fling.

    nk (dbc370)

  185. Twitter is a tool of the Devil. People would be wise to shun it, along with Facebook and most of the other social media.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  186. I don’t know if Hillary was their best candidate or not, but I do know that she was a very unappealing and weak candidate, even for a lefty perspective. She could barely explain herself.

    Remember those videos of Cruz being confronted by a screaming voter who hates his point of view, and then engaging him in dialogue for a while until the voter chilled out, and occasionally changed his mind? Hillary couldn’t do that on her best day. Even Trump could at least answer smack talk with trash talk, but Hillary was basically a mannequin reading lines for most of the campaign. She was quite weak.

    This is something I don’t understand. The left has had a weak bench for most of my adult life. Obama had no experience when he first emerged as a presidential candidate. Bernie? Give me a break. Now we’re looking at Kamala or Warren? Where are the democrat governors with the experience? The Howard Deans who at least have run a government pretty well. The democrats had a lot of fundamental advantages… since Vietnam they’ve had our entire college academy. Many of our youth and entrepreneurs. Where is the depth on the bench then?

    Now this blog sure has a lot of partisan shills who will insist that democrats are dumb and evil and therefore that’s where the problem is, but it’s not that. Something about the democrat party’s internal way of selecting winners and losers is a little too selective and corrupt, whereas the GOP has the opposite problem… no control over itself, no savvy, not even interest in some conservative vision other than ‘F the democrats’.

    No wonder Russia spun us like a top.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  187. I’ll chum teh waters… teh Russkies never fooled anyone…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  188. Hillary was the best bankrolled candidate. That’s teh Bar for electability.

    One of these days we will see the wisdom and application of Publicly Funded Campaigns.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  189. See Feynmans 1st principle kernel.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  190. the Republicans have to deal with some white-glovers, backstabbers, snakes-in-the-grass within their “ranks”. They also have more than their share of people who talk a good game, but fold every time they are given the opportunity to do what is right for the country.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  191. The tweet linked in the comment is gone, of course, since @TEN_GOP has been suspended.

    But judging from the content of the comment, it related to Democrats hanging out with Kislyak on the floor of the House. And he apparently did sit with them during a Trump speech.

    So to the extent that the tweet reflected something true — that Democrats did that — it’s not like the commenter was taken in by fake news. In this instance, at least.

    They were just repeating truthful Russian government propaganda that coincided with their own beliefs, while not realizing that the source was the Russian government.

    And that propaganda, sourced to @TEN_GOP, was used at Conservative Treehouse and Infowars, etc. etc.

    Again: if it’s true, the source doesn’t matter. (Although any time I cite something that is clearly true from a source people don’t like, this principle flies out the window.)

    But the point is: the Russians did fake news as well as truthful news. And that stuff gets leveraged. This post shows how another Russian troll was cited by news organizations all over the place.

    It’s why a little blog like mine has been able to create national news from time to time. Things can get leveraged.

    So while this stuff didn’t swing the election — of that I have no doubt — don’t overlook or underestimate the power of social media and leveraging.

    I do find it amusing that the Kremlin sent Kislyak to sit with Democrats and then dispatched trolls to make hay out of the fact. It shows that the Russian government is creating the very outrages that they then motivate Trumpalos to complain about.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  192. “That said, I thought I would share this little nugget from 2016 — long before Trump allegedly “colluded” with anyone but a porn star: “In unearthed 2006 audio, Clinton appears to suggest rigging the Palestine election.” According to The Week, the Most Qualified Candidate Ever said, regarding Palestinian elections:

    “And if we were going to push for an election,” Clinton went on, “then we should have made sure that we did something to determine who was going to win.”

    https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/288983/

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  193. Please Dustin of course Obama was as,phony as a three dollar bill, he absorbed every bit of mind arson, from his tutors from Frank Davis to Khalid but all of that was deemed out of bounds by all these platforms who now scream concern, and they will promote Kamala st al

    narciso (a5f523)

  194. Kamalatoe Harris will never be POTUS.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  195. I’ll chum teh waters… teh Russkies never fooled anyone…

    So the Trump campaign people alluded to in the indictment who dealt with phony Russians — they knew they were dealing with Russians, is your opinion?

    Patterico (115b1f)

  196. No, the fact is 30 Democratic senators collaborated with russia, to swing the Iran deal, and then his that fact,

    narciso (a5f523)

  197. Well to be fair, she was supporting the less scalier lizard in Gaza, thirteen years ago must like we supported yeltson over the communists in 96

    narciso (a5f523)

  198. How many other stories has the National Enquirer covered up to help President Trump?

    http://money.cnn.com/2018/02/16/media/trump-catch-and-kill/

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  199. Dustin:

    The Dems usually pick young people and the GOP picks old ones.

    Dems went out of character this time.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  200. So @TEN_GOP is to Russia as NPR is to George Soros.

    It shows that the Russian government is creating the very outrages that they then motivate Trumpalos to complain about.

    Truth is truth, and nobody in the Trumpalo universe coerced Democrats to act like Democrats.

    random viking (6a54c2)

  201. Yes the dems only have the whole of education, 3/4 of the media, this cartel of tech companies, a while host of other firms, won’t get fooled,again right?

    narciso (a5f523)

  202. Who turned fake news into an art form that would be Stewart and his band of pied pipers (Oliver, Camelbert bee et al) the fishwrap is still marveling over that.

    narciso (a5f523)

  203. I won’t embarrass that person by naming them or linking to the comment — unless that person starts saying that the Russians never fooled anyone — but that should cause people here to pause a little bit. Shouldn’t it?

    I would say at least as much pause (or more!!) than someone who would cite a planted Yahoo News item from Michael Isikoff to secure a FISA warrant.

    When @TEN_GOP planted tales are used as sources by the FBI, I’ll pause even more.

    random viking (6a54c2)

  204. What should give us pause are the inevitable attempts by tech minions to police this, which will be a cure many fold worse than the disease.

    random viking (6a54c2)

  205. He’s 84th out of more than 300 oligarch’s just in st. Petersburg, we have to stop making glossy adverts for these people.

    narciso (a5f523)

  206. Just chummin’, Patterico…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  207. Chumming is flattering. More like putting blood in the shark tank.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  208. Duped again and again..The caged Clinton stunt was a hit among Trump supporters. On Sept. 23, for instance, NBC2 reported that a Cape Coral man erected a caged Clinton display in his front yard.

    “I feel like I’m doing my little part at least in my little neck of the woods,” homeowner Gary Howd said.

    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/16/mueller-indictment-russia-florida-interference-416255?lo=ap_d1

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  209. Additionally, the DA’s office said that it had filed a lawsuit on February 2nd against Big Pharma under Pennsylvania’s Unfair Trade Practices and Consumer Protection Laws for their alleged role in creating the city’s opioid epidemic. The defendants are Purdue Pharma, L.P.; Purdue Pharma, Inc.; The Purdue Frederick Company, Inc.; Allergan Finance, LLC; Cephalon, Inc.; Teva Pharmaceuticals USA, Inc.; Endo Health Solutions, Inc.; Endo Pharmaceuticals, Inc.; Janssen Pharmaceuticals, Inc.; and Johnson & Johnson.

    “The City of Philadelphia has been hurt, more than any other city in the nation, by the scourge of opioids,” Krasner said in a release. “The time to act is now, which is why I’ve taken this unprecedented action, in parallel with the City of Philadelphia’s suit, to stop these companies from systematically distracting the public from knowing the true dangers of opioid use as they reap billions of dollars in profits.”

    Read more at https://www.phillymag.com/news/2018/02/16/krasner-big-pharma-marijuana-possession/#Kr23RbYcST9ScLrO.99

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  210. Remember the Big Tobacco Settlement?

    This will be Yuger..

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  211. Hillary called Trump out about being Putin’s puppet and then went on to describe the cyber conspiracy on social media. If Hillary knew the dimensions of what she was up against back in September 2016, then I find it really difficult to believe that there were any “unwitting” Trump campaign officials. Maybe some very low level staffers but Kellyanne? Corey Lewandowski? Of course they knew.

    https://riverdaughter.wordpress.com/2018/02/17/something-reines-said/

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  212. well would you look at that President Trump deals another hefty blow to the ambitions of Russia

    Interior Dept Announces Largest Offshore Exploration & Development Lease Sale In US History

    the wife of that guy what likes to rape girls with his herpes penis would never have done this that’s for sure

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  213. Clinton in a cage…

    “Caged Heat Beat”

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  214. Trump isn’t doing it. He’s just the Beard

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  215. Mueller is brilliant

    The indictment alleges facts that support charges of federal campaign finance law violations—such as the prohibition on foreign national contributions—but does not charge any such offenses. This is clearly not for want of evidence, since the indictment sets out in considerable detail the millions in foreign national spending to influence the 2016 election. Yet Bob Mueller omitted any direct charge for violations of the Federal Election Campaign Act.

    Instead, the indictment builds the campaign finance issues into a conspiracy to defraud the United States—it alleges that the Russians conspired to obstruct the capacity of the Federal Election Commission (FEC) to enforce the law. The act of obstruction was a failure to report their illegal expenditures. If the FEC did not know about the expenditures, it could not enforce the law.

    https://www.justsecurity.org/52610/charging-mystery-russia-indictments-and-indication-mueller-investigation/

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  216. “Jimmy
    @JimmyPrinceton
    Informative thread from Facebook’s VP of ads.
    — –

    Rob Goldman
    @robjective
    The majority of the Russian ad spend happened AFTER the election. We shared that fact, but very few outlets have covered it because it doesn’t align with the main media narrative of Tump and the election.

    harkin (8256c3)

  217. 175. …and Hill lost to a junior Senator in 2008 (after having a commanding lead and funding and endorsements). She’s been a mess for a while. Look at the healthcare debacle she handed Bill in the 90s (not even commenting on the policy…just her not getting it across the goal line politically).

    She’s also pretty money hungry. (graft.) Goldman speeches. Nonprofit games like Lance Armstrong. Cattle futures. Whitewater. Deducting $5/pair of old underwear that Bill donated to Salvation Army. (Be real, used clean underwear goes to the rag bag!)

    Anonymous (ea5569)

  218. I’m not really at a point where I write a lengthy comment on yesterday’s indictment, but here are a few thoughts that have been bouncing around in my head since I read it.

    To me, this indictment reflects a glaring weakness and unrecognized problem with the Special Counsel regulation being used in to conduct an counter-intelligence investigation untethered from the balance of the law enforcement and intelligence community. The announcement said yesterday that the WH was briefed in advance of the public announcement of the indictment.

    Given that this is widely viewed as a foreign intelligence operation aimed at undermining the election process, and that none of these individuals are likely to be arrested or extradited to face charges, was diplomatic or intelligence leverage lost by the public disclosure of what had taken place? Could the CIA or FBI used what they knew in their operations abroad. Could any of these individuals have been flipped where they are now? Was the DNI or CIA even made aware of what the investigation produced? Given that there is no disclosed connection to anyone in the Trump campaign in terms of knowing active participation, what possible justification is there for the Office of POTUS to not have involvement in determining what the best course of action might be given that law enforcement and foreign affairs intersect in this case. Whet

    Based on my 22 years in Justice, there is nothing about this indictment that would not have made it a candidate for being returned under seal. The bad actors — who knew the FBI was on to their operation during the election season based on one of the emails that was read — would have remained in the dark about whether there might be a warrant for their arrest. An Interpol Red Notice could have been put in place so that if any of the actors — including Prigozhin — traveled outside Russia and into any of the 190 countries who are members of Interpol, they could be arrested and extradited to the US to face the charges. That’s pretty much never going to happen now.

    Frankly, I’ve only skimmed through the actual language in the charges. But here are just some initial impressions, and if I have time to dig into it more deeply, I’ll put up another comment.

    First, I’m not convinced Count One alleges an actual crime when it charges a “Conspiracy to Defraud the US”. What bothers me about the way it is written is that calling it a “conspiracy” is just an excuse to allow the Special Counsel to “tell the story” in the form of the so-called “Object” of the conspiracy, and setting forth the litany of “Overt Acts”. This is the standard process used by Feds to allow them to have a press conference and talk about a pending case. DOJ policy prohibits talking about cases beyond the facts that are set forth in the Court records. So, the give DOJ spokesmen more to talk about, you simply include the information in the “Overt Acts” and make it part of the public record.

    Little known fact — a conspiracy involving drug trafficking under Title 21 does not require the proof of any “overt acts” to get a conviction, unlike the general criminal conspiracy statute under Title 18 which does require proof of an “overt act.”
    To validly set forth a charge of conspiracy under Title 18, the Indictment must set forth at least one overt act, which then must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt at trial. None are required to be in the Indictment or proven at trial in a Title 21 drug conspiracy.

    But, in order to have a big splashy press conference and put the guns and drugs “on the table” for the press to take lots of pictures of, prosecutors doing drug cases almost always include a litany of “overt acts” when charging a drug conspiracy because that allows them to talk to the press about what they think they know about the case based on the investigation. If no overt acts were included in the indictment, then DOJ policy would preclude any reference to such acts in a press briefing or press release.

    To validly plead the conspiracy Mueller has set forth in his Russian indictment, he had to set forth one or more overt acts taken in furtherance of the conspiracy. I need to state very clearly that my following comment is based on my experience with regard to the accepted practice of the US Attorneys in the two districts where I worked, and I’m not 100% sure its DOJ policy — but it might be. But, based on my experience and what I knew to be the practice across 6 different named and confirmed US Attorneys, we were never allowed to name as individual defendants as co-conspirators unless they were identified by name as having been involved in one or more of the specified overt acts listed in the indictment. So when you had your list of co-conspirator names, you had to write in the “over acts” at least one instance where each individual acted in a manner that furthered the object of the conspiracy.

    Example — 4 gang bangers sitting at a campfire and decide to rob a bank the next morning. When daylight comes, three leave to steal a car. They get to the bank, see a news van as they get out of the car with guns drawn, so they panic and leave. But they are spotted with the guns by a passing patrol car, they are chased down as they flee and all are arrested.

    Under that scenario, no bank robbery was actually committed (leave aside for a moment that an “attempt” might have been charged), but you could charge all three with conspiracy to rob the bank. However, by policy, you could not charge No. 4 who only was involved as part of decision-making, but was not part of any over act in furtherance of the conspiracy — such as possessing a weapon, stealing a car, and driving to the bank.

    When you look at Mueller’s indictment, none of his listed overt acts in Count One specify that any particular defendant did any particular thing as an overt act. They all state “Defendants and their co-conspirators” did certain things as described. While the discovery provided to the defense might fully inform the defendants about which individual defendants are alleged to have participated in the specific overt acts as described, in this case there won’t ever be any individual defendants brought to trial, and the discovery will never be provided. So, there’s no way to ever know if the allegations of the indictment are supported by actual evidence specifically as to each named defendant, and whether that evidence would be admissible or sufficient to establish their proof beyond a reasonable doubt. It will never be tested by the adversarial process.

    That circumstance makes it quite easy to put into the “Story” told by the Conspiracy Counts “overt acts” whatever “facts” you need in order to make it all make sense, and to sound as dramatic and ominous as possible. The prosecutor knows that whatever evidence is contained in the case file about those overt acts — weak or strong — is going to remain safely tucked away from public view. Its an invitation for abuse.

    The Second Count charges a “Conspiracy to Commit Wire Fraud and Bank Fraud.” Again, this conspiracy lists dates of specific allegations of fact with regard to actions taken in furtherance of the conspiracy, but doesn’t specify which conspirators are alleged to have been involved in the individual overt acts, relying again on the phrase “Defendants and their co-conspirators.” And the indictment doesn’t charge anyone with actually having committed the substantive offenses of “Bank Fraud or Wire Fraud.”

    My suspicion is that they don’t know who actually engaged in the specific actions set forth in the conspiracy, so they can’t name any particular individuals as having committed specific instances of bank or wire fraud because their evidence wouldn’t support such a charge against any particular person. So they hide the flaw in the conspiracy behind the “Defendants and their co-conspirators” obfuscation, and don’t charge any particular person which actually having committed the substantive crime that was the object of the conspiracy.

    In Counts 3-8, they do charge specific individuals with aggravated identity theft, alleging that those individuals did knowingly “possess, transfer, and use” the identity of other persons. We know there is one other US person charged separately with selling ID information. Since they charge that the IDs were used for wire fraud and bank fraud, its almost certain that these IDs were used to open new bank accounts in the names of the victims. The initial transfer of the ID information from the US person to the Russians was probably done over the internet — i.e., wire fraud — and the ID information was likely used to open either bank accounts or credit card accounts online.

    So my reading of the charges regarding Counts 3-8 is that there probably is solid evidence, along with the cooperation of one US person, which supports these charges.

    But its hard to have a big news conference and get all these details out to the public in a big PR exercise justifying the existence of the Special Prosecutor’s appointment if all you put in an indictment is 6 counts of ID theft to open bank accounts in the name of third persons.

    Believe it or not, this is my “first glance” post.

    Likely more later.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  219. Steele was working for an American company, subcontracted by an American law firm contracted by an American political campaign. He was not, by any reading of the Foreign Agent Registration Act, a foreign agent. The money paid to (indirectly) hire Fusion GPS was reported to election authorities.

    So straight treason, as opposed to fishing without a licence.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  220. Chumming is flattering. More like putting blood in the shark tank.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 2/17/2018 @ 10:50 am

    Sharks wouldn’t perceive human as food, supposedly. According to those guys who can’t stand the thought of shark fishing.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  221. Thanks shipwrecked.

    IANAL, but that was my quick take as well.

    P.s. Go Navy, beat Army!

    Anonymous (ea5569)


  222. Hillary called Trump out about being Putin’s puppet and then went on to describe the cyber conspiracy

    on social media. If Hillary knew the dimensions of what she was up against back in September 2016, then I find it really difficult to believe that there were any “unwitting” Trump campaign officials. Maybe some very low level staffers but Kellyanne? Corey Lewandowski? Of course they knew.

    https://riverdaughter.wordpress.com/2018/02/17/something-reines-said/

    Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 2/17/2018 @ 11:05 am

    Everytime Mueller looks for collusion, conspiracy, canoodling, with the Russians, he always finds Hillary.

    Funny that.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  223. Is it true that the FBI is offering a reward for information leading to the capture of foreign agents posing as Americans on social media to shape public opinion?

    Okay. Well I want to turn in Bennie. That [edit] gets paid by the tweet if anybody does.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  224. I’ve been traveling and attending other things but is anyone else hearing the Flynn guilty plea will be tossed?

    Mueller Is Losing Flynn, so He Indicts Russians

    “Mueller needed Russians. The MSM will salivate in onanistic glee, while your basic low-information citizen will hear the word “Russian” and assume that it proves Trump guilty. After all, it’s been in the news for some time that this investigation is about Trump’s collusion with the Russians to steal the election.

    Most importantly, he needed as many indictments of Russians as he could get, and he needed them now for two reasons. Reason one is that the indictments will give the media a basis to argue that the investigation is not the “witch hunt” it has increasingly been looking like, and reason two is that he is about to lose his prize: Flynn’s guilty plea.

    Michael Flynn, Trump’s national security adviser for a hot minute, copped a plea for lying to the FBI. Judge Rudolf Contreras of the FISC (the court that accepted from the Obama administration the Steele dossier as evidence supporting the issuance of a FISA warrant to spy on members of the Trump campaign) accepted Flynn’s guilty plea. Six days later, Contreras was recused from the case.

    The new judge is Judge Emmet G. Sullivan. His first order directed Mueller to release to Flynn’s lawyers any exculpatory evidence in Mueller’s possession. He also ordered that “if the government has identified any information which is favorable to the defendant but which the government believes not to be material, the government shall submit such information to the Court for in camera review.”

    In other words, any evidence Mueller feels is not material or contains classified information and therefore should not be released, must be provided to Judge Sullivan for him to make the determination as to what can and cannot be released – no hiding behind the magic of withholding evidence or prosecutor-determined redaction.”

    Read it all:

    https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2018/02/mueller_is_losing_flynn_so_he_indicts_russians.html

    harkin (8256c3)

  225. Since it seems likely Ahab is not about to abandon the hunt, Is There an Obstruction Case against President Trump? Andy McCarthy argues: “The justice department’s office of legal counsel should answer the question.”

    An OLC opinion would be invaluable guidance for Deputy Attorney General Rosenstein and Special Counsel Mueller. An OLC opinion would help clarify whether there truly is a basis for an obstruction allegation against President Trump. This would either lift a cloud of suspicion that makes it very difficult for a president to govern, or put Trump and future presidents on notice of what seemingly lawful presidential actions carry the hazard of potential legal jeopardy.

    Let’s get to the bottom of this. If there are real grounds for accusing the president of criminal misconduct, he and the American people should know what they are. If there are no such grounds, the Justice Department should make it known that President Trump is not the subject of a criminal investigation.

    crazy (d99a88)

  226. Mccarthy, is just becoming too silly to tame seriously

    narciso (d1f714)

  227. Yes, Mueller needs to put food on the table, so Russian crumbs will do.

    http://dailycaller.com/2018/02/16/general-flynn-should-withdraw-his-guilty-plea-his-new-judge-is-a-government-misconduct-expert/

    random viking (6a54c2)

  228. I don’t think Flynn’s plea is getting tossed. More later.

    Shipwreckedcrew (9592d6)

  229. What Mueller’s accomplished is document and expose methods and procedures of Russian tradecraft which is more damaging and damning in the cyberspybiz than anything a court of law could inflict. He’s done good.

    “Exemplary. Keep it up.” – Arthur Jensen [Ned Beatty] ‘Network’ 1976

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  230. OT again: update to #115; SpaceX team at Vandenberg is taking additional time to perform final checkouts of upgraded fairing. Payload and vehicle remain healthy. Due to mission requirements, now targeting February 21 launch of PAZ at 6:17 AM PST from Vandenberg. Still should be a good sky show similar to the one a few months ago for the SW at dawn if lighting and weather cooperate.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  231. @202. Well said, P. But then we’ve always know web chatter across the board should never be taken as gospel on face value. What would be interesting to ferret out is how many of the more reputable MSM news organizations culled reporting and/or sourcing from the likes of TEN_GOP and its fellow travelers.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  232. who are these trashy people what have “facebook” accounts anyway i don’t even know anybody with a facebook account

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  233. here this is the new thing she’s from wait for it Provo

    So you grew up a Mormon. What was your childhood like and how did that affect you?

    It was highly regimented. Between religion and music, it was structured to say the least. But when structure is normal for you, you don’t really think about it. I didn’t start feeling the full effects of shame and self-loathing until I was a teen.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  234. Your bigotry is your hallmark, happyfeet… your “brand”.

    Sad.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  235. that’s from her interview on the internet it’s not my fault hello

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  236. i like the song though

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  237. i got a way with making faces made for punchin

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  238. That’s too bad, happyfeet, because Mr. Rob Goldman of Facebook ads supports Mr. President that the primary goal of Putin was not to influence the election because the majority of the Russki adds and “spend” came after the election. You can see this at Mr. President’s Twitter too.

    Of course Mr. Goldman could be saying this only because Ivanka is Jewish, and Goldman sounds like a Jewish name.

    nk (dbc370)

  239. Pull something up from the Killers, they are LDS too. What defined you, what made you the way you are?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  240. The song sucks, but that’s beside the point.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  241. Mueller can’t find Russian collusion with two hands and Jim Comey’s reflective forehead.

    Pinandpuller (15ea4a)

  242. Rob Goldman’s a very special person and I love him very much because he is honest and truthful

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  243. i love The Killers more than beans and fishsticks

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  244. Somebody told me

    You have a planet

    That looks like a planet

    That I had in February

    Of last year

    Pinandpuller (15ea4a)

  245. the Mueller/Rosytwat indictment is a propaganda indictment not a for reals indictment

    propaganda indictments are like stuff nazi and zimbabwe people do

    i abjure this

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  246. Russians too.

    nk (dbc370)

  247. They are very evil.

    nk (dbc370)

  248. Did you know that Russian means redhead?

    nk (dbc370)

  249. I rest my case.

    nk (dbc370)

  250. Russians are problematic it’s true

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  251. here Mr. Colonel this is for make-upsies

    that’s so sweet huh and also kinda magical I should find out more about who did that

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  252. is this a backdoor way of getting the trannies out of the military

    i hope so

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  253. every day i wake up and remember the military is infested with trannies and everything is hopeless

    thanks a lot war hero john mccain

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  254. You know what you get when you combine Mitt Romney with the US Senate?

    A basement full of groceries stolen from Women and Infant Children.

    Pinandpuller (15ea4a)

  255. you can’t never be too prepared

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  256. it’s like John McCain and aspirin

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  257. 241
    If you actually read the Daily Caller article you would have noticed this judge issues a Brady order in every single case that comes before him. Meaning no conclusion can be drawn from its existence

    Kishnevi (0293c7)

  258. John McClain: Die Hard

    John McCain: Die Harderer

    Pinandpuller (15ea4a)

  259. we can conclude that he understands that us attorneys are skeevy unethical trash

    no offense mr. shipwreck

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  260. Ploschad as in pravda Ploschad, red square, I remember that from those hated boiled Russian noir novels

    narciso (d1f714)

  261. Prosecutors have a way of dealing with Brady material that might hurt their case. They mix it in with 700,000 pages of other stuff and ship all of it to the defendant. Happy hunting! They (in)famously did it to the Enzyte guy and the trial court and Court of Appeals said that was okay. Probably the judges had been disappointed with their results, too.

    nk (dbc370)

  262. Nope. Redhead is ryzhevolosyy or simply ryzhiy. In Cyrillic, рыжеволосый and рыжий.

    nk (dbc370)

  263. Yrs we saw that in that legal thriller with Mary Elizabeth mastrantonio, Sullivan doacovered the fraud in the Stevens case, including the creepy weistein like chief witness, the whistleblower who unconvered the NC 17 connection with his FBI handler was of course booted out.

    narciso (d1f714)

  264. You can’t find good candidates anywhere:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/APCentralRegion/status/964962479003627522?p=v

    narciso (d1f714)

  265. Alaska

    the whirl’s largest trailer park

    plus also bears

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  266. The fellow referred to, was played by Ted damson in that movie with drew barrymore and the whales

    narciso (d1f714)

  267. Did you ever notice the FBI has trouble arresting people who they haven’t actually set up first?

    Pinandpuller (15ea4a)

  268. During his term in the Senate, Begich was the only U.S. Senator without a college degree. He has taken continuing education classes at University of Alaska Anchorage.

    this is how they slid that turgid drippy obamacare all up in it so hard and fast

    (rape)

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  269. A prominent Republican political donor demanded on Saturday that the party pass legislation to restrict access to guns, and vowed not to contribute to any candidates or electioneering groups that did not support a ban on the sale of military-style firearms to civilians.
    Al Hoffman Jr., a Florida-based real estate developer who was a leading fund-raiser for George W. Bush’s campaigns, said he would seek to marshal support among other Republican political donors for a renewed assault weapons ban.

    If you’re into collective punishment, Al, why not finance a pitbull genocide?

    NYT’s

    Pinandpuller (15ea4a)

  270. He still is Dumber than a bag of hammers, hes up in 2020 though.

    narciso (d1f714)

  271. You might as well just burn the money in an open pit, during a cold snap.

    narciso (d1f714)

  272. Redhead is “gingersky”

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  273. lucas in extremis

    (ohnoes)

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  274. This fellow has Nazis on his family tree, a spy scandal on his watch, and a sex scandal:
    https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/920209/NATO-USA-Jean-Claude-Juncker-Munich-Security-Conference-2018-defence

    narciso (d1f714)

  275. So the DA of Philly thinks he’s John Edwards now huh? Gonna release all them long haired, dope smoking, commie pinko f*gs?

    Pinandpuller (15ea4a)

  276. They got all their other stuff figured out, that and indicting evil overlord bill cosby

    narciso (d1f714)

  277. The key to European defence is importing millions of people who can’t be kept happy.

    Pinandpuller (15ea4a)

  278. bang bang he shot me down bang bang i hit the ground

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  279. They been rushin’ to conclusions about Russian collusion.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  280. His wife lost kit on their version of a GOP nomination, ask me why:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/dcexaminer/status/964925189019590656

    narciso (d1f714)

  281. Mexico should be profoundly grateful our president, President Donald Trump, takes them seriously

    nobody else the eff does

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  282. mexico = ghetto culture

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  283. That is the image, that evil powerranger chain Saban presents in their prime time line up, in a country where considerable industry has relocated they offer the visual equivalent of corridos

    narciso (d1f714)

  284. plus they kill tourists

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  285. No, it was the more Carribe-friendly Telemundo that unleashed that programming boulder, univision tried to hold the line with the grandma stuff, but why surrender those ratings? Its like the McOndo v. Macondo blocs of Latin-American fiction writers.

    urbanleftbehind (32f72a)

  286. I was rolling, plus I wanted to say evil power ranger, anyways occasionLly they have done Turkish soaps dubbed into Spanish, erdogan doesn’t allow skimping on production values.

    narciso (d1f714)

  287. Abjure at will:
    http://youtu.be/t9jxTdYafSE

    urbanleftbehind (32f72a)

  288. No that’s wholesome fun, not what I was referring to, now if Lopez obrador wins (he’s their version of Sanders, yikes) they’ll blame the russians.

    narciso (d1f714)

  289. Someone won’t be pleased, that’s the risk they take talking smack.
    I think a suck-up will win but AMLO will pull the same burro stunts as in 06.

    urbanleftbehind (32f72a)

  290. Remember when they thought eni was the ethical oil company:

    https://faustasblog.com/2018/02/yet-another-oil-industry-corruption-scandal/

    narciso (d1f714)

  291. Didn’t the previous olc chief who drAfted these rules step down.

    narciso (d1f714)

  292. This illustrates why wakanda is,such a fantasy, which we already knew but they try to make it real, some resource like vitlbranium would attack all sorts of predators consider the major critical elements and the powers aligned in conflict.

    narciso (d1f714)

  293. Byron York
    @ByronYork
    Non sequitur time. WaPo headline is “Justice Dept. deals fatal blow to Trump’s Russia ‘hoax.'” Quotes Trump tweet saying collusion charge is hoax. Then says Mueller indictments, which do not allege collusion, have destroyed Trump’s claim.

    harkin (8256c3)

  294. Byrons been a little more up to speed, but hes still Been assuming a modicum of good faith, that want his attitude when he waa at the spectator

    narciso (d1f714)

  295. I lay the entire Trumpocalypse on the same great thinkers who continue to vomit his Brand. He is only partially culpable because of incompetence.

    In a separate tweet Sunday, Trump essentially denied ever denying Russia’s involvement.

    “I never said Russia did not meddle in the election, I said ‘it may be Russia, or China or another country or group, or it may be a 400 pound genius sitting in bed and playing with his computer,'” he wrote. “The Russian ‘hoax’ was that the Trump campaign colluded with Russia – it never did!”

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  296. If only you could share Trumps shower soap.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  297. Every Sunday she boils her cauldron. How old is the Gorgon now? Too bad evil endures; American Spelunker.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  298. Clarice Feldman: Cambrian C*nt.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  299. You were reared by wolves we understand ensign burn

    narciso (d1f714)

  300. Mueller the Marine ain’t takin’ prisoners back to the DMZ.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  301. Powerline panty-twisters should read History.

    Elliot Ness broke legal ground by nailing Capone for tax evasion

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  302. The power of anonymity. In a section titled “Use of U.S. Computer Infrastructure,” prosecutors noted that some of the defendants and co-conspirators “purchased space on computer servers located inside the United States in order to set up virtual private networks.” Once they had those, they could create social-media accounts and communicate with American campaign activists “while masking the Russian origin and control of the activity.” What obligation do campaigns have to vet the people and information they encounter? Under current law, campaigns must document the sources of their funding (to insure, among other things, that they receive no foreign donations, which are against the law).
    The power of voter suppression. To promote Trump, the Internet Research Agency did not just amplify his supporters’ enthusiasm; it actively sought to deter others from participating in the democratic process. Months before Election Day, Russian trolls “began to encourage U.S. minority groups not to vote in the 2016 US. presidential election or to vote for a third-party US. presidential candidate.” In one case, a Russian-controlled account on Instagram, with the name “Woke Blacks,” posted, “[A] particular hype and hatred for Trump is misleading the people and forcing Blacks to vote Killary. We cannot resort to the lesser of two devils. Then we’d surely be better off without voting AT ALL.”
    The power of news illiteracy. At the heart of the Russian fraud is an essential, embarrassing insight into American life: large numbers of Americans are ill-equipped to assess the credibility of the things they read. The willingness to believe purported news stories, often riddled with typos or coming from unfamiliar outlets, is a liability of today’s fragmented media and polarized politics. Even the trolls themselves were surprised at what Americans would believe. According to the indictment, in September, 2017, once U.S. authorities had begun to crack down on the fraud, one of the defendants, Irina Viktorovna Kaverzina, e-mailed a family member, saying, “We had a slight crisis here at work: the FBI busted our activity (not a joke). So, I got preoccupied with covering tracks together with the colleagues.” She went on, “I created all these pictures and posts, and the Americans believed that it was written by their people.”

    https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/reading-the-mueller-indictment-a-russian-american-fraud

    Now, what was that third one again?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  303. IOW there are liars and frauds among US seeking to influence our opinions. I’m shocked, shocked…

    crazy (d99a88)

  304. Not even semi- literate?

    News Illiteracy!

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  305. Another insane tyrant under pressure to resign who might trip the Light Fantastiqe!

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-security-israel-iran/netanyahu-says-israel-could-act-against-irans-empire-idUSKCN1G20C8

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  306. Russian disinformation is a hundred years campaign. The means and targets change, the motive remains the same.

    crazy (d99a88)

  307. “On Oct. 13, 2015, Sen. Bernie Sanders graciously stole the show at a Democratic presidential debate when he exclaimed to former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton that “the American people are sick and tired of hearing about your damn emails.”

    At that moment, certain State Department officials and FBI agents must have concluded a fix was in. The Vermont independent socialist senator could not possibly have reached an informed conclusion — so he was either in the dark, or in the tank.

    Well before the debates began, these government officials knew that crucial evidence suggested Clinton mishandled vast amounts of classified government information and had done so repeatedly, from Jan. 21, 2009. through Dec. 5, 2014, if not afterward.

    They knew because the inspector general (IG) of the intelligence community issued a July 6, 2015, report that triggered a full-scale FBI investigation that opened four days later. The subject was mishandling of classified information and targets included Hillary Clinton and her key aides.

    There is somebody who might have crucial details. FBI veteran John Giacalone served as executive assistant director of the FBI from June 2014 through February 2016, working from Washington, D.C., headquarters. His Linkedin profile indicates that during this period he “manage[d] the strategic risks associated with the FBI’s counterterrorism, counterintelligence and weapons of mass destruction programs in close coordination with domestic and international partners.”

    http://bit.ly/2Ct52MR

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  308. After turbo Tim Geithner, snorfle.

    narciso (d1f714)

  309. Scientists create first human-sheep hybrids – paving the way for a long-term increase in a specific demographic and in the number of Democrat voters. Another benefit will be that organs can be grown in animals for transplant even providing a cure for diabetes…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  310. Another benefit is they’ll be more easily led…

    crazy (d99a88)

  311. Another benefit is they’ll be more easily led…

    Who exactly is they and what is the benefit?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  312. I think on top of all-else there is identity confusion going on.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  313. The sheeple

    crazy (d99a88)

  314. Mass psychosis…

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  315. That sheep thing excludes the duped Trumpets?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  316. A better way to engage Russia in the Information War by people who understand the Russians better than our entrenched bureaucracy and the SC does: Small army of “elves” fighting Russian propaganda online

    crazy (d99a88)

  317. Re: Netanyahu… “If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more ‎violence. If the Jews put ‎down their weapons ‎today, there would be no ‎more Israel.”

    From Iran to the Palestinians, the Left give themselves away when they make it clear who they support.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  318. Shirley you’re not suggesting Trump voters are knowledgeable, thinking adults?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  319. Thanks crazy #314…

    “UPDATE: Daniel Lowenstein, an election law expert, doesn’t think much of my hypothesis. He writes:

    ‘As you point out, Steele was not a volunteer. He was paid for his services. But if he was paid for his services, those services did not constitute a contribution. To say otherwise would mean it would be illegal for an election campaign to purchase anything from a foreign vendor. Furthermore, it would be patently contrary to what the word “contribution” signifies. I don’t see the can of worms.’

    I assumed something along these lines must be right, which is why I wrote that “I don’t doubt that election lawyers could come up with defenses for Christopher Steele.” But is it really that simple? If it is OK for a foreign national to provide valuable services to a campaign as long as he is paid, and it is also OK if he is a volunteer, what becomes of the prohibition? I assume that the safe harbor Lowenstein refers to requires that the foreign national be paid fair market value for his services; otherwise, he makes a contribution in the amount of the difference between the fair market value and what he was paid. But what was the fair market value of the dossier? Who knows?

    Also, I believe that Steele continued to work on behalf of the Clinton campaign in ways that went beyond what he was paid for, e.g. by leaking the contents of his dossier to the press and by taking it to the FBI. Are these “volunteer” activities and therefore exempt from the prohibition of §30121? I don’t know. Simpson, for what it is worth, testified that Steele engaged in these activities out of a sense of duty, for the sake of the public good.

    So with all due respect to Lowenstein, I think that Bob Mueller could well have believed that indicting the Russians under §30121 would open a “can of worms” with regard to Steele, even if Steele would have had plausible defenses to the potential charge.

    Lowenstein agrees that the charge of “conspiracy to defraud the United States” is goofy:

    Like you, I find it hard to understand the charge of intent to defraud the United States. I have not read the indictment, but if there is no better explanation of what they mean than you provided, then I can only imagine it means the Russians intended to mislead the voters in a manner likely to influence voters. I agree with you that that is pretty flaky. But flaky or not, I do not see why it is less applicable to Steele than to the indicted Russians.

    My point is not so much that the conspiracy theory is less applicable to Steele than the Russians, but rather that the theory is so vague and so novel that its application is, as I phrased it, “entirely discretionary on Mueller’s part.”

    At the end of the day, I freely acknowledge that my hypothesis is speculative and may be wrong. But if so, the question remains: why did Mueller recite in the indictment’s first paragraph that it is against the law for foreign nationals to spend money to influence U. S. elections, implicitly recognizing that that was the essence of what the Russians did, and then not charge them with that crime? I, at least, haven’t seen a better answer.

    We thank Daniel Lowenstein for adding his expert perspective to the discussion.”

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  320. Pence the Gardener can be seen tonight in Turner Classic Movies in Being There @ 5 pm Pacific.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  321. When does the peaceful transfer of presidential power from Obama to Trump actually take place? It certainly didn’t happen on Inauguration day.

    crazy (d99a88)

  322. When will WH droobs obtain permanent security clearance?

    Priorities….

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  323. About the same time the leftists realize how foolish they sound when they call everyone else stupid. I guess they figure to gain some votes by telling other people how dumb they are.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  324. Obviously it’s not everyone who is stoopid hoagie. He lost the popular vote.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  325. Cadet burn is beyond redemption.

    narciso (52a0a7)

  326. Maybe we can have a SP for Journolist next? With a long (uncharged) motive-y, narrative conspiracy section at the front.

    We need Special Prosecutors for trolls and fake news? Seriously?

    Anonymous (d41cee)

  327. 346… Clinton won the “popular vote” for what that is worth – a clue: it ain’t worth much – by winning California.

    ’nuff said.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  328. teh rear admiral
    a serial fellator
    there is no there there

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  329. Right now the FBI is one of the most inept security organizations in the world. They spent over a year and have no evidence of Trump collusion with Russia. And simultaneously they have let one shooter after another get away with mass slaughter, whether it is foreign born or domestic terrorist. And for years before they let leads go unanswered. This is a sign of an organization that has failed and is corrupt. They have been given perfectly actionable leads on many of these tragedies and massacres and have done nothing. But this same organization had time to try and change the outcome of a US presidential election by its agents colluding with the Russians and the DNC.

    yeah the white hats or now black hats. Thats what you get when you give them more power than all of the other branches or departments of the government. If people hate Trump that much that they are willing to let the FBI become all-powerful and act like a Praetorian Guard and decide who is to be the POTUS & who is not, based on their underhanded and dishonest machinations, well you now have that type of government in charge of who your POTUS will be. We have the gatekeepers we deserve and our Foundering Fathers are rolling over in their graves.

    Even a hero like Benedict Arnold turned traitor and the same has happened with many of the powerful members of the FBI and DNC.

    cheers and Happy Presidents Day Weekend.

    Where Eagles Dare (8f562c)

  330. “The FBI has a budget of $3.5 billion, almost all of which goes to salaries, benefits, and other personnel costs. Do you know how many employees the FBI field office in South Florida has? It has more than 1,000. Do you know how many employees the FBI has in total? It has 35,158 employees. It has 13,084 agents and 3,100 intelligence analysts.

    And not one of them could pick up the phone to forward vital intelligence gathered by the grueling investigative work of picking up the phone and taking a tip from a tipster. Would the sheriff have taken that call more seriously than his department took the 20 other calls relating to the killer? Impossible to say.”

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/02/florida-shoting-fire-fbi-chief-christoper-wray/

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  331. “It has 35,158 employees. It has 13,084 agents and 3,100 intelligence analysts.”

    16,000 agents and analysts. Bad enough. But what do the other 19,000 do?

    Lenny (5ea732)

  332. For the FBI to say that they get thousands of tips and don’t have the resources to follow up on them all is a total crock. That’s what servers and software are for. If the various tips, plus the gun purchase database, was adequately processed by some pretty simply software a “hit” could’ve been generated on the Cruz profile. Depending on how the data is filtered, I imagine you might get maybe one such hit a day in South Florida, if that. Maybe they’re already doing something like that, in which case it is very much flawed. Resource limitations are a very poor excuse.

    What this, plus the Steele dossier handling, shows is that we’re dealing with a highly incompetently managed organization.

    random viking (6a54c2)

  333. I blame Bush.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  334. Comey and Wray are the poster children for the Peter Principle.

    Lenny (5ea732)

  335. HR… diversity training… gender reassignment… PR…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)


  336. 346.Obviously it’s not everyone who is stoopid hoagie. He lost the popular vote.
    Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 2/18/2018 @ 9:13 am


    You didn’t say “everyone”, comrade, you suggested that Trump voters are not knowledgeable, thinking adults. That intimates you believe everyone who doesn’t vote the way you want is stupid, does it not?

    I don’t think you will convince anybody to join your side and vote your way by calling them and the people they love stupid, do you? Not even the “undecided” or “moderates” that voted for Trump. Perhaps especially those people. I would suggest you face them with facts, not insults but perhaps you’re short on the former and long on the latter.

    BTW, the only way such an unpopular person as Lyin’ Hillary could have won the popular vote is the same way she got the democrat nomination- by cheating. That my little commie friend is why you “useful idiots” have been screeching perpetually ever since. The fix was in (just like with Sanders) but something went wrong. Hint: it all started when she called the people for Trump “Deplorables” and went down hill from there.

    So if you useful idiots to the communist cause disguised as the democrat party want to attract voters it behooves you to stop calling them names. You may think they’re stupid but I don’t think they’re that stupid.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  337. That’s the most coherent I’ve heard from you. Logic and reason are good practice, now go back and review my facts for further progress, hoagie. I know you’ve got potential,you just have to engage it.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  338. We know Trump was a deliberate denial of intellect, defaulting to an emotional storm of irrational hopes and dreams

    Time to come back down

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  339. So now you switch from dismissive and disrespectful to dismissive and condescending. Wow, you learn quick. What you “know” about Trump can fit on the head of a pin. That’s why every day he drives you guys crazy, because you can’t figure him out. On one hand you say “Trump was a deliberate denial of intellect”. What does that even mean? Assuming it means he’s an idiot it would seem odd that our idiot outsmarted the Smartest Woman In The World™ and is now president while she is drinking herself to death and treating the STD’s Bill gave her. MAGA

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  340. How do dems get the most votes?


    EXPOSED! Clinton pal STEALING votes from the military

    February 17, 2018

    “On the Holmes Front, with Frank Holmes”

    Americans owe the military more than we could ever repay.

    America’s two million soldiers and reservists risk life and limb to keep this nation safe, week in and week out, 365 days a year.

    The least our country’s fighting men and women deserve is the right to vote. After all, who could be more qualified to choose our next commander-in-chief?

    Now, a team of President Barack Obama and former secretary of state Hillary Clinton campaign cronies want to squash their votes – out of sour grapes for Donald Trump’s election!

    The Center for American Progress released the report this Monday saying we have to make it harder for the military to vote in order to “protect future elections from interference by hostile nations such as Russia.”

    The report, “Election Security in All 50 States,” wants to abolish a method of voting that many deployed soldiers rely on.

    They claim that shadowy KGB agents will hack electronic votes – which, coincidentally, is how some U.S. soldiers vote from battle zones.

    Instead CAP, which is funded by Clinton pal George Soros, recommends that “all voted ballots be returned by mail or delivered in person.”

    That report is nothing but a blatant attempt to strip the military of the right to vote – a right that they protect for us.

    Men in uniform who are serving overseas can’t just drop by their local town hall and deliver their cleanly marked ballots.

    In fact, the local election board can be their greatest obstacle – especially if it’s located in a Democrat-controlled city.

    Military paper ballots are supposed to be mailed 45 days before the election, to make sure the troops have plenty of time to fill them out, and get them postmarked before the mailing deadline.

    Even in the best of circumstances, thousands don’t get counted.

    But 40,000 ballots were mailed after the legal deadline in 2010. And the worst delay was in New York City and Illinois – the hometowns of Hillary and Obama.

    Mailing a paper ballot isn’t even an option for some of our brave soldiers.
    The Democrats “don’t believe someone who works on a submarine should be allowed to vote,” said Colorado’s Republican secretary of state, Wayne Williams. There’s no postal service underwater, CAP!

    Voter fraud expert J. Christian Adams called the Democrats on their bald-faced hypocrisy. “CAP wants to make it easier for felons and criminals to vote, but wants to make it harder for fighting men and women overseas,” he said.

    It’s no mystery why: The military votes overwhelmingly Republican in every single election.

    In 2016, the military picked Trump over Hillary at least two-to-one.

    Only 25 percent of soldiers would even think about casting a ballot for Hillary, according to the Military Times poll.

    Almost as many voters said they would abstain from voting!

    For one-in-five U.S. soldiers, would rather not vote at all than help Hillary get into the Oval Office.

    The Democrats’ partisan motive couldn’t be any clearer. CAP was founded by none other than John Podesta.

    Podesta was chief of staff for President Bill Clinton and chairman of Hillary’s 2016 presidential campaign.

    His embarrassing e-mails were hacked and released by WikiLeaks in the waning days of the 2016 election. That move helped cost Hillary a rigged election that everybody thought she had in the bag.

    Now he wants to make sure the military never has the chance to cost him another election, and a return trip to the White House.

    Patriotic Americans of all parties have to put their country above politics. We have to make sure Soros’ left-wing plans to disenfranchise the military fail miserably. We have to make it easier for the military to vote – and for every vote they cast to count.

    America’s soldiers deserve nothing less.

    Frank Holmes is a reporter for The Horn News. He is a veteran journalist and an outspoken conservative that talks about the news that was in his weekly article, “On The Holmes Front.”

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  341. Friday on MSNBC’s “All In,” Rep. Jerry Nadler (D-NY) said Russian interference with U.S. elections and political processes that resulted in 13 indictments against Russian nationals was “equivalent” to the attack on Pearl Harbor by Japanese in 1941.

    NADLER: My reaction to the news is this is absolute proof of what we knew all along and what the president has denied, namely that we were attacked. This is a very serious attack against the United States by a hostile foreign power, an attack against our election process, our entire governing process. [pounds desk]
    We know that the attack is continuing. And that our intelligence agencies tell us that it’s going to certainly continue through the next election. And the president and the Republicans in the House for that matter refuse, refuse to do anything about protecting us from an attack. Imagine if FDR had denied that the Japanese attacked us at Pearl Harbor and didn’t react? That’s the equivalent.

    HAYES: It’s a bit of a different thing.

    NADLER: No it’s not.

    HAYES: They didn’t kill anyone.

    NADLER: They didn’t kill anyone but they’re destroying our democratic process.

    HAYES: Do you really think it’s on par?

    NADLER: Not in the amount of violence,

    Ben is your street name Nadler?

    Has anyone ever seen Ben and Jerry in the same room?

    papertiger (c8116c)

  342. 13 accusations of internet trolling against Russians is “equivalent” to the attack on Pearl Harbor!

    I mean that was a stupid ratings crushing thing to say nine months ago.

    Now that indictments have come down it’s absolutely cringe worthy.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  343. No hoagie. We don’t wonder about Trump. He’s a given. What we don’t get is the attraction similar to Mrs. Mnuchin..

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  344. I mean he’s rich and all but holy moly.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  345. A seven million dollar cut and past from a radio free Europe piece from 2015, so when bogachev hacked the exchanges in Nevada and Virginia, steeling the info of millions of Americas, when china goldfinger crew stole 20 million rpm files where was Jabba Nadler (d nal huttia)

    narciso (d1f714)

  346. 361… http://patterico.com/2018/02/16/who-is-indicted-russian-oligarch-yevgeny-prigozhin-and-what-are-his-connections-to-putin/#comment-2091394

    If it’s Sunday, it must be Hoagie teaches beenburned how teh hog eats teh cabbage day.

    IOW, a day like any other day…

    Colonel Haiku (1cc715)

  347. I know it’s neither here nor there but Luke Bryan definitely lifted a Jimmy Page riff:

    All My Friends Say

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  348. I hear something I recognize- – that repetitive do-do-do, do-do-do, do-do-do – thing, but can’t tie it to a LZ song, PaP. Sounds like “keep your hands to yourself”

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  349. Mr. Panther isn’t doing the gaylympics any favors huh

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  350. Luke Bryan doesn’t really have much to do with his musics

    his musics what seem to get dumberer by the day

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  351. Oh, if you want to see a totally contemptible remark about “thoughts and prayers” just look for the tweet that noted atheologian Neil DeGrasse Tyson (did I get his name right?) came up with.

    kishnevi (bb03e6)

  352. If Manafort maintains his not-guilty plea and fights the charges at a trial, the testimony from Gates could provide Mueller’s team with first-person descriptions of much of the allegedly illegal conduct. Gates’ testimony, said a person familiar with the pending guilty plea, would place a “cherry on top” of the government’s already-formidable case against Manafort.

    http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-rick-gates-plea-deal-20180218-story.html

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  353. The ubiquitous Stratcaster

    https://youtu.be/APWhx97QvxE

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  354. Deciding to take a stand against “ideological despotism,” Former prof recounts her ‘escape’ from political correctness.

    Breuning argues that it is natural to be politically correct—since humans are social animals and the pressure to conform is innate—but contends that people can fulfill their intrinsic emotional needs without resorting to political correctness.

    While political correctness “offers a fast, easy way to pull yourself up by putting others down,” Breuning’s book offers strategies that can be used to hack your brain, so that you can trigger “feel good” chemicals without needing to engage in political correctness.

    This can be hard, since some people are “addicted” to political correctness, Breuning says, noting that “if political correctness brought you rewards in youth, you got wired to seek good feelings from political correctness, and fear the loss of it.”

    Facts that conflicted with her belief system eventually led to the proverbial “ah-ha” moment…

    crazy (d99a88)

  355. Yes but Tyson is like shooting womprats, back home, its hardly sporting.

    narciso (d1f714)

  356. So in sum, Putin’s chef is an oligarch while our Captain’s cook is a clown.

    Sir! You want fries w/your burger in bed tonight?

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  357. DAE see a semi tractor hauling two or three more tractors behind it in tandem and think,”Look mommy, the trucks are fighting!?”

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  358. ASPCA preaching his #NeverTrump blather… his collection plate will soon be passed around for stool samples.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  359. I got my Mexican Strat from a coyote in South Nashville, $300.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  360. @383 What we have here is a failure to excommunicate.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  361. The principled left was against an emerging police state until they controlled it.

    crazy (d99a88)

  362. But what do the other 19,000 do?

    Lenny (5ea732) — 2/18/2018 @ 11:01 am

    Not read YouTube comments.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  363. Stop smoking cigarettes man

    https://youtu.be/7ne7ij1Pmys

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  364. No hoagie. We don’t wonder about Trump. He’s a given. What we don’t get is the attraction similar to Mrs. Mnuchin..

    Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 2/18/2018 @ 11:55 am

    Longtime Republican donor calls for new gun laws, vows to withhold cash


    A longtime Republican Party donor based in Florida vowed not to contribute any more money to candidates or electioneering groups until they pass legislation banning the sale of assault weapons to civilians.

    Al Hoffman Jr., a real estate developer and former ambassador to Portugal, has donated millions to Republicans over the years. On Saturday he sent an email to a half-dozen Republican donors, encouraging them to boycott candidates who oppose new gun legislation, the New York Times reported.

    RINO MEGA-DONOR Threatens Jeb Bush: No More Money To GOP Until Assault Weapons Are Banned

    Predictably, the leftist media has now embraced the mega-Republican Party donor. CNN’s Ana Navaro tweeted her praise for Hoffman’s ultimatum. Navarro went as far as to call “Republica” Hoffman a “friend”: “Very proud of my friend, Al Hoffman, for taking a stand. He’s a West Point grad. He’s a veteran. Has served in many capacities. He is a Republica. A father. A husband. A patriot: Prominent Republican Donor Issues Ultimatum on Assault Weapons” via @nytimes

    Why would Sugar Daddy Butterfield send a special note to Jeb Bush as opposed to someone actually running for office?

    Answer: he knows a prostitute when he sees one.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  365. Clapton should ring up Keith Richard’s doctor. That guy knows what he’s doing.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  366. Nashville is NWI (The Region) done right.

    urbanleftbehind (7df0e2)

  367. Dedicated to Eric Clapton.

    What a drag it is getting old. https://youtu.be/Nlp3zg_RkuQ

    Or maybe; Can’t you hear me knockin? https://youtu.be/3fa4HUiFJ6c

    papertiger (c8116c)

  368. Since Yardbirds I’ve followed the Reptile and found his human journey inspirational from his tragic loss and addictions culminating in his darkest workPilgrim and his emergence from Phoenix flames to Back Home again in 2005, my own resurrection and redemption as it relates in the timeframe.

    Premature in my mourning for loss I suggest everyone remember love lost before it occurs so the moments are not lost in the vacuum of regret..

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  369. Clapton has earned his Blues Creds.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  370. Advice that Eric has certainly taken to heart.

    Why he specializes in funeral music. https://youtu.be/JxPj3GAYYZ0

    papertiger (c8116c)

  371. I could see a splitting of Florida movement gaining some momentum.

    urbanleftbehind (7df0e2)

  372. Music saved him from his son’s tragic demise. I mention Pilgrim in this sense because Circus is the sad remembrance of the night before the boys death. Eric had taken him there the night before and it was seared into his psyche.

    Make light of that…

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  373. Hey Ben, did you Major or Minor in Pentatonia?

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  374. Would you lock up Eric Clapton if it could just save one child? Or chile, as the case may be.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  375. Wow Ben, you totally sound like Patrick Bateman. I like it.

    Meet the new Ben, same as the old Ben.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  376. Nashville is NWI (The Region) done right.

    urbanleftbehind (7df0e2) — 2/18/2018 @ 2:08 pm

    I hope that doesn’t stand for North West Indiana.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  377. I admit, that’s a very very low bar.

    urbanleftbehind (7df0e2)

  378. LOL — Lawfareblog has a post up on what the Mueller indictment means.

    Written by 5 authors — all non-lawyers.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  379. THIS is how the Sh’t hits the fan in case you 35cent idiots don’t know.

    Then there was a commotion. A Chinese security official grabbed Kelly, and Kelly shoved the man’s hand off of his body. Then a U.S. Secret Service agent grabbed the Chinese security official and tackled him to the ground.
    The whole scuffle was over in a flash, and the U.S. officials told about the incident were asked to keep quiet about it. Trump’s team followed the normal security procedure to brief the Chinese before their visit to Beijing, according to a person familiar with the trip — but somebody at the Chinese end either didn’t get the memo or decided to mess with the Americans anyway.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  380. Is says there were at least 80 tweeters being paid to bad mouth, sow discontent, what ever you want to call it.

    If one of them wandered into court, what kind of a penalty could they expect?

    There’s high treason, which suggests there is low treason. This I suspect would be squirrel in a treason.

    What would they do? Pull their visa? Say never come back again? Would an Hawaiian judge file an injunction against kicking them out?

    papertiger (c8116c)

  381. In November 2013, The Washington Post wrote a lengthy article detailing a payola scandal in which [Michael] Allen would give favorable Politico coverage in return for advertising dollars.

    The stench hanging off the Politico brand forced the head stinker to changes names – thus Axios – which not surprisingly has made payola it’s business model.

    Hey, why don’t we list it as a non-profit and collect “donations” from foreign sources, such as Putin for instance?

    Yeah, that’s a good idea, Jim.

    papertiger (c8116c)


  382. Music saved him from his son’s tragic demise. I mention Pilgrim in this sense because Circus is the sad remembrance of the night before the boys death. Eric had taken him there the night before and it was seared into his psyche.

    Make light of that…

    Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 2/18/2018 @ 2:25 pm

    No doubt diving into his music would be Clapton’s go to coping mechanism, and certainly there was some theraputic component to pouring his sorrow into a record, but let’s not paper over the bottom line.

    Clapton turned feeling sorry for himself into a paycheck.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  383. You asked.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  384. Mueller’s release on Friday was meant to do 4 things:

    1) Make Trump look bad or guilty of something i.e. “winning the election under a cloud of suspicion & outside interference”
    2) Make Hillary look good or not guilty of something i.e. “she did not lose the election fair & square”
    3) Make the FBI and Mueller look like they ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING meaningful to help the USA.
    4) Distract from the MAJOR-FBI-self-inflicted-super-nova-cltusterfark that want down in FLA with the HUGE blown tip to have prevented ANOTHER massacre.

    The reason no one saw the Friday Mueller data-dump coming or it wasn’t leaked was because it was all thrown together at the last minute to counter the mess they created in the FLA HS shooting. Sure they had some outline all along but the FBI simply worked around the clock until the news conference on Friday afternoon.

    The only upside to everything is that the FBI and their friends in the DNC are SOOOO incompetent that the truth is still being asked about why POTUS Obama and his cronies in the FBI allowed all of this supposed Russian interference in the first place (since 2014??? really????) and why no investigation into Hillary and her completely unprotected server as well as DNC, FBI, and Clinton investment in the Russian and DNC funded Fusion GPS dossier, not to mention the lousy and dangerously incompetent job that the FBI does in protecting people from ACTUAL danger such as from super-armed nut jobs posting non-stop on the internet how they are going to kill people (as well as IGNORING FACTUAL TIPS).

    doesn’t it make anyone wonder what is going on? On Friday, not even Manafort was indicted on ANY activity with Russia? even I know this doesn’t make complete sense.

    What makes the most sense is the deep state within the Obama’s admin, and the FBI, DNC and even the RNC, just didn’t care about Russian interference since they fully thought Hillary would win and continue the whole mess they are so happy stays in power in DC.

    since Trump won, everybody, even Russia and the FBI, now both and all simply try to post negative after negative news and some imaginary criminal innuendo, 24/7, about Trump, until he leaves office or loses the next election. why is it that so many in the deep state are afraid of ONE MAN when they have 100 or even 1000s promoting their swamp driven agenda.

    Can someone please name one FACT that shows any of the fake “charges” against Trump are true? Can someone prove Trump DID NOT win the 2016 presidential election fair & square or that he is unfit to remain POTUS due to breaking some kind of law that kicks you out of office, such as what happened to Nixon and almost happened to Clinton?

    Cheers & Happy Presidents Day 😉

    Where Eagles Dare (8f562c)

  385. I don’t get it either, if this was like the encouragement of Hungarians rebels to uprising like radio free Europe, I suppose it was retalation for getting involved on the side of the maidan, I guess the parallel was supprtung the patricios against the Texan settlers.

    narciso (d1f714)

  386. It’s like the IRS Tea Party. The investigation and the complications that arise from it that is the punishment and a warning to others to tread carefully in opposing the status quo.

    crazy (d99a88)

  387. IRS and the Tea Party… darn keyboard

    crazy (d99a88)

  388. I have been a fan of Clapton ever since the Cream days. I watched that “12 Bars” documentary and I must say that he appears to be a guy who let his demons get the better of him. He had many people depending on him over the years and the only thing he could be counted on to do appears to have been letting those very same people down… time after time.

    That doesn’t take anything away from his artistry, however. And he has since done much to redeem himself.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  389. 414… a lot of what you write makes sense and I also agree with this being used in an attempt to distract from the incompetence relating to the Florida school shooter.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  390. “NBC’S Rachel Maddow Show Sparked FBI Investigation Into Death Threats Against Mcconnell, Pruitt.
    Rand Paul: Recovery after attack ‘was a living hell.’
    Bernie Bro James T. Hodgkinson, Attempted Assassin Of Steve Scalise, Already Being Erased From History.
    FCC Chairman Ajit Pai canceled his appearance at CES because of death threats.
    Terry McAuliffe says he’d punch Trump: ‘You’d have to pick him up off the floor.’ ”

    https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/289053/

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  391. I have a question for lawyers or non lawyers alike

    Has a musician ever been sued over the copyright of a song they wrote while at their day job?

    Asking for me.

    It’s usually patents but, just sayin’.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  392. What would they do? Pull their visa? Say never come back again? Would an Hawaiian judge file an injunction against kicking them out?

    papertiger (c8116c) — 2/18/2018 @ 3:23 pm

    I’m re-watching Lost and Sawyer got banned for life for head-butting an Aussie Agricultural Minister.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  393. Funny you bring that up, the real life version, barnaby Joyce, who was the one who intimidated amber heard over the dogs that skipped quarantine, turns out he is kiwi, and hence invalid to hold office, is as such threatening to topple the trumbull govt.

    narciso (d1f714)

  394. @383. =Haiku!= Gesundheit!

    No legs or thighs in this Colonel’s bucket – only Chicken Kiev.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  395. Disco I’m sure was in the bedttwr red than dead school back in the day, that’s when it mattered. The closest thing to stains puppet was Henry Wallace who was one heartbeat from the presidency. His independent campaign brought in the likes of Norman mailer and George Mcgovern, who lingered in public life for another 60 years.

    narciso (d1f714)

  396. @414 – Where Eagles Dare (8f562c) — 2/18/2018 @ 4:31 pm

    Lee Smith wrote a great piece for Tablet Magazine last year that explains how the media sausage now gets made. There are few real journalists left, just buyers and sellers of a narrative.

    Forget the Russians and their “interference” in our elections, they’re pikers compared to firms like Fusion GPS.

    http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/241381/news-of-the-news

    Lenny (5ea732)

  397. 424… ASPCA, flyin’ on 11 different herbs and spices… AGAIN.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  398. Back when CNN was doing the history of comedy, the ratings were not sin 30%.

    narciso (d1f714)

  399. I recall when the anniversary came around last year there was mostly squirrel!!!

    http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/stop-playing-politics-with-school-shootings/21121#.Woo7uy8o6bO

    narciso (d1f714)

  400. narciso, The Sultan knish pointed this way:


    There was never any shortage of reporters eager to cooperate with Clinton officials. Would the same insider media that allowed the DNC to review articles and ask for changes have really refused to keep the origins of the Clinton-Steele dossier a secret? Even if the reporters who were briefed by Steele didn’t know that he was working for the Clinton campaign, they could have guessed it from their contacts.

    But because the campaign was underway, the dossier was a double game. Spreading it through the media acted as classic opposition research while routing it through the DOJ generated an investigation. And the Clinton campaign used Steele to do both. His Fusion GPS handlers ferried him from briefing reporters to briefing the FBI. And the FBI was obligated to keep his secret the way that the media did.

    Short of an email hack, there’s no way to get at what a reporter knows. The Los Angeles Times still has Obama’s Khalidi tape locked up. The recent release of a photo of Obama posing with Farrakhan which had been kept locked up for over a decade, and the media’s subsequent refusal to report on it, shows just how impermeable the media’s black wall of silence is. But that’s not true of government agencies.

    The man males sense.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  401. Isn’t Norman Mailer the president of People For The Ethical Treatment of Government?

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  402. No that’s Norman Lear and People For Dead American Puppies.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  403. Yes mailer who Fred the death row inmate who went on to kill again, oops.

    narciso (d1f714)

  404. OT- if anybody has access to the Paramount Network, the face melting part of Raiders of the Lost Ark is about to begin.

    urbanleftbehind (7df0e2)

  405. You know there is sort of a theological explanation for that, remember in the temple there were shrouds so common men, could not even look upon the ark, staring its contents would a great transgression, to members of a pagan death cult like the Nazis. Imho.

    narciso (d1f714)


  406. 434.OT- if anybody has access to the Paramount Network, the face melting part of Raiders of the Lost Ark is about to begin.


    Thanks, but I envision that each time I read a Ben Burn comment.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  407. And just as today…top men working on it.

    urbanleftbehind (7df0e2)

  408. Who wants to join People for the Ethical Treatment of Russians?

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  409. Interesting irony, the dig trainer byline on the gates plea is by the author of a book, that shows comey and Mueller botched the anthrax investigation. But this time they got it right?

    narciso (d1f714)

  410. If there were lies and fake news spread during the campaign 99.9% of it came from domestic sources, both from campaigns (it is their raison d’etre) and from the major media (yes, Fox, but also everyone else). To read the online Washington Post in October of 2016 was to read, daily, at least 5 front-page screeds against Mr Trump and/or his supporters. There was no semblance of balance, fairness, or discussion of any point other than “Trump Bad.”

    Compared to the Post, the NY Times was downright restrained. Compared to the Post, the Clinton campaign was noticeably restrained. There is a reason that Trump is irate with the Post and its owner, Mr Bezos. If you want to find someone who had a significant effect through trolls and propaganda, you need look no further than Jeff Bezos.

    That it did not work isn’t the point. That it had several orders more effect than a sophomoric ratfukk campaign from a Russian basement, makes the argument that Trump’s win wasn’t genuine utterly risible.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  411. Thatcher was their main enemy then, why do they deny it.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/02/18/labour-mps-deny-spys-claims-paid-10k-czech-secret-service-threw

    Yes but what was the source of all these tidbits was it the electronic intercepts or were these only the pretexts.

    narciso (d1f714)

  412. Like some people can’t get around the xfl and some lawsuit 15 years ago, call me crazy , but pointing to the wrong man twice in a,national security case that is still unsolved is somewhat of a,measure of a man.

    narciso (d1f714)

  413. 419 Thank you very much. It was the FBI’s version of Wag the Dog (of course turned inside out & upside down but the same thing: a distraction from the reality going on since 14 Feb) by those who are corrupt in the FBI, but not all rank & file members.

    420 Don’t even get me started. Really, the left is one shoe drop from anarchy. And personally I get pissed off with some of the tone & rhetoric on Fox too. Sadly the left has been bomb throwing for decades. The right is getting beaten up and shot at. Everybody lies. So many politicians think its their job to be able to lie with a straight face.

    Why can’t Ryan just say “I am going to propose all schools have armed guards to protect the lives of the most defenseless”. Is that so frikin hard? is it??? why can’t someone in government say “WE WILL PROTECT OUR KIDS AND TEENAGERS WHILE THEY ARE IN SCHOOL”. All you need are two trained school personnel or where the guard candidates have been screened, then two guards, and have a sign at the school entrance: “Anyone brandishing a gun on this property other then those duly deputized will be shot on site.”

    right? right????? is that so hard???

    Posted for truth:

    Code of Virginia

    § 18.2-282. Pointing, holding, or brandishing firearm, air or gas operated weapon or object similar in appearance; penalty.

    It shall be unlawful for any person to point, hold or brandish any firearm or any air or gas operated weapon or any object similar in appearance, whether capable of being fired or not, in such manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another or hold a firearm or any air or gas operated weapon in a public place in such a manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another of being shot or injured.

    good nite.

    Where Eagles Dare (8f562c)

  414. If you’ve seen the movie z, it’s about theambramis affair, where a lefty Greek politiciAn, played by yves montand is killed by some right wing thugs but it’s made to look like an accident

    narciso (d1f714)

  415. Hahaha — Conservative Treehouse has a link to a Russian investigative journal story from last Oct. that has pretty much the same information about the Russian Troll Factory and how it worked on the “American Project” throughout the campaign — right down to the number of people involved and the kinds of fake online accounts and personas they created on Facebook, Twitter, and Google+.

    At least 75% of Mueller’s “story” about how the Troll Factory operated could have come right out of this article.

    My links here never work right, but here it is – its written in Russian so you need to use the Google translator.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  416. The odd thing was presumably some one at Facebook and Google must have heard about the profiles,of ira yet still allowed ad buys.

    narciso (d1f714)

  417. What’s the Ruble balance in Zuckerberg’s Bank of Moscow accounts?

    askeptic (8d10f9)

  418. Its about as genuine as those glossy advert in the post and the wall street journal.

    narciso (d1f714)

  419. mueller’s a sick lil fbi pansy-trash joke

    mueller is to law enforcement what cowardpig war hero john mccain is to national security

    which is to say not too terribly effing much

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  420. Mueller should have uranium shoved up his azz or down his throat

    mg (5fb699)

  421. In Michigan pistol permit holders can legally open carry on school grounds.

    Pinandpuller (0b94e1)

  422. Ain’t it the truth!?!? Keep on crockin’ in the Free World!

    http://althouse.blogspot.com/2018/02/trumps-tweet-this-morning-is-reading-my.html

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  423. If you like Classical Music and foreign influences you might like like Walz II in Em Anno MMXVII or

    Russian Collusion

    Pinandpuller (0b94e1)

  424. Well what do you know… Lots Of British People Are In The US Campaigning For Hillary Clinton. I guess it was OK because they didn’t pretend to be Americans or buy Facebook ads.

    crazy (d99a88)

  425. More from the administration of the untethered cannons..

    You don’t have meetings like this without your own translator. You just don’t. The typical process is that both sides have interpreters. Official A speaks, the interpreter for Official B tells Official B what was said, and the interpreter for Official A says some version of “Yes, that’s correct” to verify the interpretation. Then it all works in reverse when Official B replies. With difficult issues under discussion, the last thing either side wants is confusion about what each side is saying.

    Excluding your own interpreter is so far outside of normal protocols it is unreal, and begs the ever-green question about most everything since 1/20/2017: idiot or crook?

    As Diplopundit noted in his/her own tweet, someone else was missing from this meeting — an official note taker:

    Saving money on translators*, too? And the foreign FM will just share his notes of the T-E discussion with the State Dept. Or EUR can use their Magic 8 ball. 😭 It knows everything and always willing to share.

    https://www.emptywheel.net/2018/02/19/meanwhile-over-in-turkey/

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  426. Is our 35cents learning?

    waiting for Trumpenfuhrer…

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  427. Godot unavailable..

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  428. The president reportedly spent the weekend watching television and complaining about special counsel Robert Mueller’s Russia probe, according to the Post.

    http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/374491-trump-surveyed-mar-a-lago-members-over-gun-control-in-wake-of-school

    Heh.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  429. Cruz: one the anti-abortionists saved.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  430. Any other blighted ovums you like to save for later?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  431. He made comments about every girl: ‘I’ve been to that country.’ ‘We’re building a Trump Tower there.’ It was clear the countries that he liked did well. He’d whisper to Paula about the girls, and she’d write it down. He basically told us he picked nine of the top fifteen.” Kerrie Baylis, who was Miss Jamaica in 2013, described a similar scene and added that, when the finalists were announced, “the list looked like the countries that Donald Trump did business with, or wanted to do business with.” Shi Lim, who competed that year as Miss Singapore, told me, “The finalists were picked by Trump. He was really in charge. We called it the Trump card.” (A Miss Universe spokeswoman said that the pageant rules allowed the company’s staff, including Trump, to participate in naming the finalists.)
    Trump has long viewed his businesses as mutually reinforcing,

    https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/02/26/trumps-miss-universe-gambit?currentPage=all

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  432. The Trump data mine is rich and fully-loaded.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  433. Rear admiral 3rd degree Ben burned should have uranium shoved up his azz or down his throat.

    mg (b1dd2d)

  434. Putin prefers polonium umbrellas. Have Trump consult with him again.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  435. You’ve written 9 of the last 10 comments. What are you compensating for? We’re here to help.

    Lenny (5ea732)

  436. Let’s see.

    There was the brawl outside the Turkish embassy. A small army of embassy personel in business suits fully involved.
    Instigated would be the right word.

    Then theres the attack on the US consulate in Turkey.

    Turk police targeting American citizens there and some here too.

    When a long time ambassador would rather be assigned to Afghanistan than Ankara that’s a strong indication of the situation in Turkey.

    We don’t want to put anyone ancilary to the basic mission at jeopardy.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  437. We tolerate Turkey because we don’t want Russia to have access to the Mediterranean from the Black Sea. The Brits tolerated the Ottomans for the same reason.

    I expect Erdogan to suffer some misfortune in the near future.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  438. Which is exactly why Putin loves Assad. Russia needs warm water ports .

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  439. Cruz: one the anti-abortionists saved.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 2/19/2018 @ 7:00 am

    Any other blighted ovums you like to save for later?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 2/19/2018 @ 7:01 am

    I’m wondering what it is the ATF looks for prior to a gun purchase? Seems like crazy, autistic, military wouldn’t take him, would be red flags. Maybe there’s a different law over in Florida.
    Maybe they cleaned up his record with politically correct euphanisms – troubled youth, emotionally challenged – to make the truth more obscure, harder for a background check to find.

    Cruz rattled his tail before he struck, posting his intentions on the internet. Usually, at least I think, people do that with the hope someone will intervene, and stop them when they’re feeling out of control.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  440. Well, as Narciso commented on the same day of incident, Cruz was the unaware beneficiary of several changes in the juvenile justice system aimed at the reduction of disparate impact on minorities (moves made after Trayvon, though I wonder if Hispanics are subdivided into less and more likely)

    urbanleftbehind (7df0e2)

  441. …by group (South Americans and Cubans on one hand PRs and the Mesos on the other).

    urbanleftbehind (7df0e2)

  442. Did you see this Ben? In your Wapo link.

    A person familiar with the records confirmed their authenticity, and interviews with teachers, administrators and those who knew Cruz — along with other records and accounts — show that he was well-known to school and mental health authorities and was entrenched in the process for getting students help rather than referring them to law enforcement.

    It is unclear how complete the records are, and a Broward County schools spokeswoman said she could not comment on them due to “student privacy rules.”

    Teachers worked “very, very, very hard” to get Cruz to a school center that would help him address his issues, said the sixth-grade teacher, who noted that Cruz’s now-deceased mother also understood his problems and wanted to get him help. But that process took years, the teacher said, and required loads of paperwork to back up Cruz’s needs.
    “We do, as teachers, everything that we possibly can to help these children, we truly do,” the teacher said. “And it’s a process. It’s a big process. You have to have just so much information, which we did on him, we had so much.”

    Said several former teachers, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the topic.

    I want to beat up on the FBI, ATF, or someone involved with giving this kid a hunting license, but do-gooders are making it hard.

    1. you have no records available for a firearm background check to find because,

    2. none of these extremely alarmed government employees wanted to talk about the kid on the record.

    You have to give the back ground check something to work with. Give the FBI/AFT a fighting chance.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  443. @472. Federal Categories of Persons Prohibited from Receiving

    A person who has been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year or any state offense classified by the state as a misdemeanor and is punishable by a term of imprisonment of more than two years.

    Persons who are fugitives of justice—for example, the subject of an active felony or misdemeanor warrant.

    An unlawful user and/or an addict of any controlled substance; for example, a person convicted for the use or possession of a controlled substance within the past year; or a person with multiple arrests for the use or possession of a controlled substance within the past five years with the most recent arrest occurring within the past year; or a person found through a drug test to use a controlled substance unlawfully, provided the test was administered within the past year.

    A person adjudicated mental defective or involuntarily committed to a mental institution or incompetent to handle own affairs, including dispositions to criminal charges of found not guilty by reason of insanity or found incompetent to stand trial.

    A person who, being an alien, is illegally or unlawfully in the United States.

    A person who, being an alien except as provided in subsection (y) (2), has been admitted to the United States under a non-immigrant visa.

    A person dishonorably discharged from the United States Armed Forces.

    A person who has renounced his/her United States citizenship.

    The subject of a protective order issued after a hearing in which the respondent had notice that restrains them from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of such partner. This does not include ex parte orders.

    A person convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime which includes the use or attempted use of physical force or threatened use of a deadly weapon and the defendant was the spouse, former spouse, parent, guardian of the victim, by a person with whom the victim shares a child in common, by a person who is cohabiting with or has cohabited in the past with the victim as a spouse, parent, guardian or similar situation to a spouse, parent or guardian of the victim.
    A person who is under indictment or information for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year.

    The real problem isn’t whether or not there’s crazy thoughts in his head, it’s if there’s murder in his heart. No good way to determine that.

    crazy (d99a88)

  444. He had crazy thoughts on paper, crazy.

    (and I’ll put in a word in for your integrity, given your screen name, your willingness to engage on this topic)

    I have no doubt you posted all of it, but there are a few holes in the criteria that need tightening.

    If a person is prescribed drugs for a mental condition, that might not be covered by “controlled substances”. In fact I don’t like that term at all. It’s too fluid.
    Heart medications are controlled substances, birth control pills are controlled substances, blood test strips for diabetics are controlled substances.
    Anything you need a script for? That’s a bogus definition.

    A kid being sent to a continuation school for emotionally disturbed youth, if social workers are sent to the parents house to recommend psychiatric help, that should be criteria.

    If you threaten to assassinate the president in writing on your homework – these are things that need to be evaluated. Not hidden behind some imaginary student privacy rule.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  445. How does one think Russia ended up with Ukraine, two wars to gain it from turkey, two to hold it, they are the Mexico/spain analogue

    narciso (d1f714)

  446. I have a fair way to institute a valid form of national gun control: any person qualified to vote can own a gun. If a person is too f***ed up to be trusted with a firearm he’s too f***ed up to be trusted to vote.

    If leftists are willing to live with felons and immigrants and lunatics running around voting they should be fine with them exercising all their other rights also.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  447. This is the country that came up with potemkin village

    https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/rich-noyes/2018/02/19/flashback-cnn-and-msnbcs-enthusiastic-coverage-russian-sponsored-anti

    This was common practice in broward county even before 2012, but the Obama administration embiggenned it as policy

    narciso (d1f714)

  448. OT in part, but how did the Netherlands get roped into Morroco mole, especially since they have been independent of the Spanish Hapsburghs for 400+?: http://www.yahoo.com/news/farting-passenger-forces-plane-emergency-185237663.html

    urbanleftbehind (7df0e2)

  449. Re NYT becoming shirking violet compared to WaPo, is Carlos Slim turning into the suck-up example that Mexico needs?

    urbanleftbehind (7df0e2)

  450. Ukraine not like Mexico!

    urbanleftbehind (7df0e2)

  451. Finally! Some good news.

    Jennifer Lawrence — one of the finest constitutional minds ever to come out of post-apocalyptic adolescent adventure films — is taking a year off from acting to “fix our democracy.”

    We’re saved!

    papertiger (c8116c)

  452. Weapons of mass disgust, much like molenbeek remember the van goth hursi Ali/ wielders complex

    narciso (d1f714)

  453. If it was 50s Hollywood, it would because J-Law done got herself knocked up.

    urbanleftbehind (7df0e2)

  454. papertiger@476, I appreciate the kind thought. The criteria come straight from the FBI. Maybe I was too flip in attempting to draw a distinction between crazy thoughts and murderous intent. Cruz decided to kill and then planned and conducted the attack including his escape. His actions were those of a premeditated killer, not a troubled person with disordered thinking.

    I don’t disagree with the points you’re making. If certain criteria need to be changed by all means let’s do it. My recollection is the section about mental deficiency was the subject of hot debate when it was adopted in the (Clinton?) years and was intended to strike a balance between public safety and medical privacy. Draw the line lower and fewer people that need it will seek psychiatric treatment.

    I don’t know why all the state and local people involved with Cruz didn’t believe he was a threat to himself or others but I suspect we’ll learn more as his case progresses.

    And no I’m not “crazy.” Not every call sign is a diagnosis.

    crazy (d99a88)

  455. The social misfits and genetic misanthropes are Legion.

    They were supposed to be born unwanted to make military killing machines . They were slated for warrior status as a facilitator of honorable service but now the monsters are stealthily waiting like sleeper cells and at least part of the thanks goes to the Evangelical Bund and their enablers.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  456. urbanleftbehind must know about so called FBI legend Elliott Ness and The Cleveland Torso Killer:

    The American equivalent of the terrifying crime spree of Jack the Ripper was undoubtedly the “Cleveland Torso Murders” that took place in an area called Kingsbury Run in the middle 1930’s. Like the Ripper case, the murders left a number of mutilated victims behind and they remain unsolved to this day. It was a series of killings that had tragic results, terrifying the city of Cleveland, ending human lives and destroying the career of an law enforcement icon, “Untouchable” Eliot Ness.

    FBI Legend and Civil Rights Pioneer Elliot Ness

    Pinandpuller (5d3034)

  457. It seems weird that a guy would choose to behead people when Tommy guns and BAR’s were readily available.

    Pinandpuller (5d3034)

  458. Yikes, Cheryl Hines is married to Robert F Kennedy Jr. Curb My Enthusiasm.

    Pinandpuller (a2135d)

  459. And she was married to Larry davids character in curb your enthusiasm.

    narciso (d1f714)

  460. 489… you’re not crazy, beenburned… yikes…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)


  461. 494.489… you’re not crazy, beenburned… yikes…


    I was looking at that nonsense too, Colonel. Can you imagine the crap swirling around in that guy’s head?

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  462. And she was married to Larry davids character in curb your enthusiasm.

    narciso (d1f714) — 2/19/2018 @ 5:10 pm

    She’s a cross between Betty Draper and Skyler White and I don’t feel bad about hating her (character).

    Pinandpuller (a2135d)

  463. This David Hogg kid looks a lot like an FBI stooge and CNN plant.

    Pinandpuller (a2135d)

  464. New York Times report about teh Russian trolling described in Mueller’s indictment:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/18/us/politics/russian-operatives-facebook-twitter.html

    They’re still at it, about the Florids shooting:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/19/technology/russian-bots-school-shooting.html

    Summary: There was a hashtag on Twitter called #Parklandshooting

    They jjumped in. Besides the usual about mental illness they pushed the claim that Nikolas Cruz, had searched for Arabic phrases on Google before the shooting. They also started some new hashtags of their own, like #ar15.

    On Friday they pushed the idea that the whole shooting was a hoax, using the hadhtag #falseflag.

    By Monday they had moved on to writing about the Daytona 500 auto race and “news about William Holleeder, a man facing trial in the Netherlands for his suspected role in six gangland killings.”

    The New York Times reporters, Daisuke Wakabayashi and Sheera Frenkel were stumped as to what that was all about.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  465. If the Russians are in league with organized crime in western Europe it would make sense. Thw Wikipedia article has not been updated to reflect any new trial of William Holleeder.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)


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