Patterico's Pontifications

2/15/2018

Amid the Terrible Stories of a School Shooting, a Story of a Hero

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 9:15 am



The tragedy that occurred yesterday at a high school in Parkland, Florida is hard to process. Someone who would shoot and kill high school students is surely the worst humanity has to offer. I won’t speak the shooter’s name. He doesn’t deserve it. But one man’s name deserves to be spoken and remembered: Aaron Feis, who saved several students as he sacrificed himself:

Football coach Aaron Feis threw himself in front of students as bullets hailed down Wednesday at his alma mater, Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida.

It would become perhaps the final act undertaken by this assistant coach and security guard, who suffered a gunshot wound and later died after he was rushed into surgery, according to the school’s football program and its spokeswoman, Denise Lehtio.

“He died the same way he lived — he put himself second,” Lehtio said. “He was a very kind soul, a very nice man. He died a hero.”

Initially it looked like Feis might make it, but it was not to be:

RIP. May we all keep his example in our minds today.

[Cross-posted at RedState and The Jury Talks Back.]

165 Responses to “Amid the Terrible Stories of a School Shooting, a Story of a Hero”

  1. A hero who really is a hero.

    That the murderous cretin is alive and the innocent and brave are dead and wounded is just so maddening.

    RIP

    harkin (6c3294)

  2. Yes, what he did was heroic. May he rest in peace.

    nk (dbc370)

  3. At only 19 years old, recently orphaned, and kicked out of high school where did the troubled and disadvantaged poster boy for modern ailenated youth get the weapons or the buy money. A new entry level AR-15 runs about $500 and 5.56 ammo ain’t cheap.

    ropelight (345b30)

  4. Now that’s a hero. He didn’t “take a knee” to insult people he took a bullet to save them. God bless him.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  5. straight to heaven.

    felipe (5b25e2)

  6. Thank you for this.

    I hear snippets of news reporting yesterday about this, but haven’t had the time yet to go looking for it.

    What a man.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  7. Thank you sir for making the ultimate sacrifice to protect the innocent. May God accept you and bring you to his warmth.

    NJRob (b00189)

  8. Perhaps the greatest thing that can be said of any man (or woman for that matter) is that when the call to action came, he or she swiftly answered it and did his or her duty to the utmost. Those who knew and loved Coach Feis can be proud of him and should count themselves fortunate to have known him. Rest in peace, coach.

    JVW (dadb0c)

  9. 3. ropelight (345b30) — 2/15/2018 @ 10:15 am

    3.At only 19 years old, recently orphaned, and kicked out of high school where did the troubled and disadvantaged poster boy for modern ailenated youth get the weapons or the buy money. A new entry level AR-15 runs about $500 and 5.56 ammo ain’t cheap.

    Good question.

    Did he inherit them? Steal them? Make money from criminal activities? Join a group? But what group?

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  10. Should AR15s and other scary weapons be illegal Patterico?

    Many complain this type of weapon is only for killing people, not hunting.

    Is this a valid argument wrt 2nd Amendment?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  11. Oh, that group:

    https://www.adl.org/blog/florida-white-supremacist-group-admits-ties-to-alleged-parkland-school-shooter-nikolas-cruz

    the Anti-Defamation League called the ROF hotline and spoke with an ROF member who identified himself as Jordan Jereb.

    Jereb, based in Tallahassee, is believed to be the leader of ROF. In 2016, he was arrested on charges of threatening a staffer in the office of Florida Governor Rick Scott because he was allegedly angry at the staffer’s son.

    Jereb said that Cruz was associated with ROF, having been “brought up” by another membe. Jereb added that Cruz had participated in one or more ROF training exercises in the Tallahassee area, carpooling with other ROF members from south Florida.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  12. Since the NHollywood shoot out every patrol car has FULLY AUTO AR15- or M-4

    I think that’s self-defense that results on dead people.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  13. 11. Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 2/15/2018 @ 11:14 am

    Is this a valid argument wrt 2nd Amendment?

    I think it is, according to Heller, provided they are completely outlawed at least as much as machine guns, and police an security guards don’t have them either. gthey would not then be in common use.

    And certainly the manufacture of them can be outlawed.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  14. Back to the topic of the thread: let’s honor the heroes.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  15. like so many other nevertrump resistance losers the ADL squandered its credibility many moons ago

    they can go poop

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  16. I’m drop you off to some nearby suburbs and dare you to say it out loud, happy.

    urbanleftbehind (d74249)

  17. ADL Urges Donald Trump to Reconsider “America First” in Foreign Policy Approach

    In a letter to Mr. Trump, ADL urged him to refrain from using the slogan in the future.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  18. no suburbs today it’s supposed to rain i thought

    i hope it rains some more anyway we still have a mess out there

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  19. There’s nothing ‘heroic’ about any of this.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  20. Since the NHollywood shoot out every patrol car has FULLY AUTO AR15- or M-4

    I think that’s self-defense that results on dead people.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 2/15/2018 @ 11:17 am

    How many ways can you spell “f***ed in the head?

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  21. DRJ, Beldar, how many Texas state trooper bullets have you dodged today? Ten, fifteen?

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  22. Steve57

    Please surrender to the Authorities before anything goes wrong.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  23. There’s nothing ‘heroic’ about any of this.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 2/15/2018 @ 12:47 pm

    There’s something heroic about showing up on time, not missing ship’s movement, with a hair cut.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  24. Steve57

    Please surrender to the Authorities before anything goes wrong.
    Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 2/15/2018 @ 2:14 pm

    Yeah, I already did. Do you want to know what the said when they stopped laughing, Mr. IHOP?

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  25. I know I’ll regret it but wtf does Mr.IHOP mean in English?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  26. Thars yer sign..

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  27. Should AR15s and other scary weapons be illegal Patterico?

    Ben burn, maybe the right question to the anti 2nd is why did we sacrifice this coach by not letting him carry at school…

    We lost a giant in the community, because we didn’t trust a man who spent his whole life with our children and gave it too.

    Because the left has no concept of duty honor and sacrifice.

    EPWJ (4dc563)

  28. Simple solution

    Ballistic classroom doors

    Coaches, principals carry conceal at all times

    EPWJ (4dc563)

  29. CRUZ THE WHITE SUPREMACIST
    CONFESSES

    is Mr. Drudge’s take right now

    I don’t understand Mr. Drudge’s emphasis that the shooter “confesses”

    is he being mischievous by juxtaposing “confesses” with “white supremacy”

    and then linking to an article that has the local sheriff batting down earlier reports that he’s linked to some white power group?

    i’m kinda befuddled

    happyfeet (28a91b)


  30. I think it is, according to Heller, provided they are completely outlawed at least as much as machine guns, and police an security guards don’t have them either. gthey would not then be in common use.

    And certainly the manufacture of them can be outlawed.
    Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 2/15/2018 @ 11:18 am


    Exactly what idiot would outlaw the manufacture of weapons for our armed forces? That makes no sense.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  31. Voluntary carry is permitted for bodyguards and what other way could you describe teachers, EPWJ?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  32. The loss of our children’s innocence in the face of arming teachers is no more severe than other countries.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  33. Ask Finland Norway, Canada, and Scotland how their school shootings went. Russia too

    EPWJ (4dc563)

  34. Eight and eight split, with one teacher. This guy did not have an agenda.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  35. Fortunately Feis wasn’t armed or something unpleasant might have happened.

    Richard Aubrey (10ef71)

  36. Chris Hixon, athletic director, and Scott Beigal, geography, were both teachers also murdered while covering the escape of children in their care.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  37. from what i saw today his public defender seems to be a class act

    if that’s the case i hope the community can see that

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  38. So we’re going to hear all about how we need more gun control. Again. We don’t need more gun control; we need a way to deal with those who’ve been identified as mentally unstable and likely to pose a danger to themselves and/or others.

    Of course, cultural factors have absolutely no effect on impressionable (and possibly mentally ill) young minds, do they?

    http://www.al.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2017/10/hollywoods_gun_obsession_41_mo.html

    Let’s control public ownership of guns but let Hollywood promote (and make lots of money off of) our entertainment industry’s sensationalizing of firearm violence. Yeah, that’s the ticket!

    ColoComment (256f5c)

  39. 31. Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7) — 2/15/2018 @ 2:36 pm

    Exactly what idiot would outlaw the manufacture of weapons for our armed forces? That makes no sense

    The armed forces do not use AR-15s.

    They use better weapons, which are not sold to the general public, and the supreme Court has not held that they must be.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  40. Now there is a man in full. What a selfless, heroic action! RIP.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  41. There’s nothing ‘heroic’ about any of this.

    Except the actions of the man described in the post, which obviously were heroic, as any sentient person can tell.

    Your comment is so nonsensical I feel like I must be misunderstanding you. It’s a pretty damned stupid comment on its face.

    But then you are the guy who peed all over the thread about Levitcus’s baby, so maybe I should not be surprised.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  42. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. That’s what it says in the Bible that’s for sure.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  43. ok then

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  44. The attack on Florida’s Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School is the 17th school shooting in the U.S. within the first 45 days of 2018.- CNBC

    There’s nothing ‘heroic’ about any of this.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  45. the 17th school shooting in the U.S. within the first 45 days of 2018.

    There have not been 17 school shootings this year.

    Chuck Bartowski (211c17)

  46. I think they should change their mascot to vampire bat

    http://reason.com/blog/2018/02/15/no-trump-did-not-make-it-easier-for-ment

    narciso (d1f714)

  47. @47/48. =yawn= ‘Many public figures claimed that the Wednesday incident is the 18th school shooting of 2018. The claims cited a database of school shootings that is maintained by Everytown for Gun Safety, a nonprofit that advocates for gun control measures. Everytown’s database includes any publicly known incident in which “a firearm discharges a live round inside a school building or on a school campus or grounds.”’ So if any gunplay at American schools fits your pistol in the 21st century, spin on. The year is young.

    DCSCA (797bc0)


  48. The armed forces do not use AR-15s.

    They use better weapons, which are not sold to the general public, and the supreme Court has not held that they must be.
    Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 2/15/2018 @ 4:36 pm


    I’m sorry, Sammy Finkelman but you stated “I think it is, according to Heller, provided they are completely outlawed at least as much as machine guns,” and that’s what I thought you are referring to. I am well aware the military uses the M4 and HK416 both in 5.56x45mm NATO. Sorry for misunderstanding you.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  49. “There’s nothing ‘heroic’ about any of this.” Thus spake the Archpriest of The Holy Order Of Saint Sarah Of Brady, as he derided a teacher who gave his life to save the lives of his students which is the very definition of heroism.

    nk (dbc370)

  50. There is one thing a lot of these crazed shooters have in common: The FBI.

    First, the FBI was warned about Cruz after he posted on YouTube saying he was going to become a “professional school shooter.” The agency said they couldn’t identify the user who made the threat, despite Cruz posting under his own name.

    Similarly, Dylann Roof, who in 2015 shot nine people at a black church in Charleston, was allowed to purchase his weapon in part because of errors by FBI agents during the background check process, the agency said.

    And then there’s Pulse shooter Omar Mateen, who pledged allegiance to ISIS before killing 49 people at the Orlando nightclub, similarly seemed to have fallen through the cracks. The FBI investigated Mateen twice before the slaughter but ruled him not a threat both times.

    But let’s not forget The FBI knew that Fort Hood shooter Army Maj. Nidal Hasan had been in contact with al Qaeda terrorist Anwar al-Awlaki, but declined to investigate him. A congressional probe found that the FBI had failed to alert the Army about Hasan, and that the shooting could and should have been prevented.

    Finally, Another school shooter who was on the FBI’s radar killed two students at a New Mexico high school just two months ago. Although the killing doesn’t meet the government’s definition of a mass shooting, the shooter was known to the FBI. The agency investigated the shooter, 21-year-old William Atchison, in 2016 after he commented online about committing a mass shooting.

    BTW, it’s not just shooters the FBI screws the pooch on.

    The FBI similarly missed opportunities to stop Tamerlan Tsarnaev, one of the brothers behind the 2013 Boston Bombing, a government review found. Russia warned the United States that Tsarnaev had associations with Islamic terrorists, leading an FBI-led task force to question the future terrorist. The agent who interviewed Tsarnaev closed the probe “having found no link or ‘nexus’ to terrorism.”

    The task force was alerted a year later that Tsarnaev was leaving the country for Dagestan but declined to interview him or stop him from leaving the country. FBI agents later said the failure to interview Tsarnaev was a “huge” error, according to Boston Magazine.

    So all in all we do have a common denominator among all these incidents and don’t make me go back to the negligence of the FBI regarding 9/11.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  51. Yes the two hijackers in southern California were living under their own name.

    narciso (d1f714)

  52. I think the Five Letter acronym is just pointing that if we could effectively keep guns out of the hands of nuts, there would be no need for heroism such as Feis’s.

    There’s really three ways to deal with it:

    Rigorously identify mental health issues, with all the intrusiveness and potential for abuse that entails.

    Turned schools and other places into minifortresses which the public must accept for the sake of education, shopping,etc–not just armed teachers and bulletproof doors, but vetting and security checks for everyone who enters and leaves

    Heavily restricting the sorts of guns and ammo the public can buy and locations where they can buy them.

    Your choice–but I think the first two possibilities mean far greater infringement on liberty than anything the third option could produce.

    Kishnevi (a2d7ac)

  53. Considering the same ft Lauderdale office, had dropped the ball Just a month beforem

    narciso (d1f714)

  54. @55. Bingo.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  55. Douchey
    Cork
    Soaker
    Clown
    Asshat

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  56. Bongo

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  57. You know, when I see a tragedy, and some jackwagon tries to make political hay out of it all emotionally, after literally years of sneering at other people acting emotionally over issues…

    Well, there are too many trolls around.

    This thread is about a hero. Showing bravery in the face of insanity. Saving lives.

    But other folks just remember the He of the Nine Fingers and his famous statement: never let a crisis go to waste.

    Patterico, spot on about Leviticus.

    Trolls stink.

    Simon Jester (2d9cb4)

  58. There is a Gresham law aspect to this, of course heroism and service must be ignored or coopted because agendas need to be satisfied. Every town needs to have their exemption pulled this is one too many jaclaloperies

    narciso (d1f714)

  59. Bango!

    All this school needed was securely locked doors that not just anybody could walk through; and three trained, armed, sworn peace officers (that’s less than one per thousand students), and not just an unarmed assistant football coach who doubled as a security guard. Like my high school.

    nk (dbc370)

  60. There was supposed to be an armed resource officer, but he never confronted the perpetrator.

    narciso (d1f714)

  61. Heavily restricting the sorts of guns and ammo the public can buy and locations where they can buy them.

    How did that work out for your great-grandparents when the Cossacks came to visit?

    nk (dbc370)

  62. Sorry to get personal, but you yourself have brought them up in immigration threads.

    nk (dbc370)


  63. Heavily restricting the sorts of guns and ammo the public can buy and locations where they can buy them.


    Which would actually be defeating the whole idea of the second amendment which was to put the people or equal or close to equal footing with their greatest threat: the government.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  64. This is the issue with outrage. People emote and don’t think. It’s understandable.

    Which is why a thread about a hero can go other places.

    And why some people take advantage of that outrage and upset to advance their own cold-blooded goals.

    Me, I will ask myself: would I stand up for others? And if not, why not?

    Simon Jester (2d9cb4)

  65. There is genuine outrage and then there is the canned crow disco trades I was surprised no one brought scripture till post 45

    narciso (d1f714)

  66. Sure, but you’re not a Knight Commander of The Order Of St. Michael Of Bloomberg, Simon.

    nk (dbc370)

  67. Frankly, with all the pain and suffering an incident like this generates I can’t help but feel a bit proud that there was still a man in this day and age who was willing to stand up and even give his life to save a student, perhaps a friend and a fellow American. Safe spaces, speech laws, gun grabbers be damned there are still hero’s in our country.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  68. nk statistically, a US school kid has more chance of being killed at school than a Jew had of being killed by a rioter. At Kishinev (near my grandparents’s home town) 49 Jews were killed. The Parkland shooter was the equivalent of one third of a Russian pogrom.

    I had to check the list of victims to make sure no one I knew was directly affected. Just like I had to check the lists of victims from 9/11, since one plane flew out of Boston…

    Kishnevi (a6653c)

  69. There’s nothing ‘heroic’ about any of this.

    There’s nothing valuable in your comments. Trolling to troll.

    Patterico (da0cad)

  70. There is one thing a lot of these crazed shooters have in common: The FBI.

    Hoagie, there is an inconvenient problem – the police and the FBI can only deprive you of your liberty if you’ve committed a crime or appear to be about to do so in the very near future.

    (Before the lawyers jump on me, yes, that is an over-simplification, but still)

    The fact remains that the police cannot indefinitely lock up every person who says something edgy on the internet or who exhibits anti-social (but non-criminal) behavior. Nor can they confiscate their guns or deprive them of their right to purchase more of them. As a practical matter, they can’t keep them under indefinite surveillance either.

    Apart from that, there is a problem of numbers. There are thousands of people who fit the same profile as the shooter, but the vast majority of them are never going to take that last insane step and go on a killing spree. If we could read peoples’ minds, maybe we could identify the handful who will, but since we can’t, what specifically are you suggesting should be done?

    Dave (445e97)


  71. Which would actually be defeating the whole idea of the second amendment which was to put the people or equal or close to equal footing with their greatest threat: the government.

    Ask the Branch Davidians how that worked out.

    Or, to do it more positively:Clive Bundy made the government back off by using the First Amendment, not the Second.

    But it’s to be expected you miss the actual point of the 2A. The founders thought an armed citizenry would make a large military establishment unnecessary. Police didn’t exist back then in any meaningful way, but they too fall under the rubric of Standing Army.

    Kishnevi (a6653c)

  72. Me, I will ask myself: would I stand up for others? And if not, why not?

    Simon Jester (2d9cb4) — 2/15/2018 @ 7:30 pm

    I was also asking myself that question. My immediate reaction when I read about Aaron Feis wasn’t that he was a hero, but rather an angel. Perhaps a difference without distinction.

    Lenny (5ea732)

  73. Three teachers, all men, died protecting their students yesterday.

    Patricia (3363ec)

  74. I’m going to say Ben is flat out wrong with no research whatsoever. SWAT might use select fire rifles but I doubt every patrol car does. It makes no sense and they don’t have time to learn about suppressing fire, most likely. They don’t have the budget to train for it. A billion a year goes to homeless people.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  75. @75 Kishnevi

    Most of the casualties from the ATF came from the ATF.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  76. It’s a good thing to have these psycho / autistic / chemically altered / what have you, perpetrators intact in custody for the head doctors to tinker with and find out what has gone wrong. precisely because of these other questions; what’s the best way to move forward, counter measures to avoid repeats, signs to look for.

    Like that guy who shot up the black church in Charleston, it’s good to have that guy in pocket, because there are too many people out looking to make political hay out of him.

    Easy to pidgeon hole a ghost, not so much with a living person.

    I wish they had kept the Oklahoma City bomber alive. At the very least it would have cut down on the marijuana 4/20 holiday nonsense.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  77. You for real, dcscahole?

    mg (765e6a)

  78. I wish this to only the guys willing to take it. The Lumberjack Special Forces. To the Canooks.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  79. …Me, I will ask myself: would I stand up for others? And if not, why not?

    Simon Jester (2d9cb4) — 2/15/2018 @ 7:30 pm

    Friday, February 02, 2018
    Fullbore Friday
    In 2009 we lost a lion of the Cold War.

    …A former major general in the Hungarian Army, General Kiraly was the senior military leader of Hungary’s short-lived revolt against Soviet forces in the autumn of 1956. As commander in chief of the Hungarian National Guard and the leader of the Budapest garrison, he commanded a force of 26,000 insurgents and 30,000 Hungarian Army troops who had joined them.

    When the uprising began on Oct. 23, General Kiraly was weak, ill and exhausted; he had just been released after spending five years in prison, four of them on death row, on manufactured charges of espionage. After the uprising was put down violently by the Soviets less than two weeks later, he fled to the United States.

    Bela Kalman Kiraly was born on April 14, 1912, in Kaposvar, in southwest Hungary. After graduating from the state military academy in Budapest, he served as an army officer in World War II. In later years, General Kiraly said in interviews that he had tried to join the Russian side in the war rather than serve with Hungary’s fascist forces, but was unable to do so.

    During the war, Mr. Kiraly commanded a battalion of 400 Jewish slave laborers at the Ukrainian front. Disobeying orders from his superiors, as The Jerusalem Post wrote in 1993, he “put the 400 men under his command into Hungarian uniforms and treated them humanely.” For his actions, he was honored in 1993 as a Righteous Gentile by Yad Vashem, the Holocaust memorial authority in Jerusalem.

    Captured by the Russians in 1944, Mr. Kiraly was sent to Siberia. He and two dozen of his men managed to escape from the train carrying them there and walked over the Carpathian Mountains back to Hungary. Mr. Kiraly was made a general in 1950 and appointed leader of the military academy in Budapest.

    In 1951, General Kiraly was arrested on charges of subversion, sedition and spying for the United States. (The charges are now widely believed to have been concocted by Hungary’s Stalinist leaders.) He was given a death sentence, later commuted to life at hard labor. In October 1956, General Kiraly was among the prisoners paroled by the Hungarian government in a futile effort to appease mounting popular unrest.

    When the uprising started, General Kiraly was in a Budapest hospital. “I was skin and bones coming out of five years of imprisonment,” Agence France-Presse quoted him as saying in 2006. “I was far from being healed, so I had to slip out of the hospital because the doctors would not let me go.”

    At the request of Imre Nagy, a liberal Communist who was Hungary’s prime minister from 1953 to 1955 — and who was returned to office at the start of the uprising — General Kiraly organized the loose confederation of students, workers and other insurgents into a well-oiled fighting force.

    “In 24 hours, I created a professional military staff,” the general said in the Agence France-Presse interview.

    What have you done?

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  80. I guess at least half of it is true.

    http://db.yadvashem.org/righteous/family.html?language=en&itemId=4015627
    Rescue Story

    Király, Béla

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  81. Not much, Steve.

    Simon Jester (2d9cb4)

  82. Hopefully by the time I am done I’ll be quite of such ideas. If you really want to get to know someone hunt with them.

    http://www.kodiak.org/afognak

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  83. Rev. Hoagie. WRT Mateen, the feebs investigated at the behest of Mateen’s colleagues. Their conclusion was that the colleagues were guilty of islamophobia.

    Richard Aubrey (10ef71)

  84. 78, Patricia

    And we left them unarmed, so tragic that these men had to die unable to fight back

    The argument that its too dangerous to arm some teachers and give them training is so flimsy when compared against the years they spent training and studying to be teaching in the schools in the first place.

    EPWJ (4dc563)

  85. after 24 hours people need to move on and not dwell

    I think it was Mr. Sammy Finkelman what perspicaciously noted that this is a local story

    this didn’t happen to us as a nation that’s a conceit of filthy CNN Jake Tapper fake news propaganda sluts what want to exploit the dead

    this happened to Parkland, Florida

    get your own life and let them pick up the pieces of theirs

    maybe this will be a good weekend

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  86. Happy, in your own way, you have absolved my lack of emote w.r.t. this shooting. I lost an aunt yesterday morning, so I kind of checked out save for some back and forth on unrelated matters.

    urbanleftbehind (d74249)

  87. Sorry to hear that urban,

    narciso (d1f714)

  88. yes yes Mr. leftbehind i think of it this way

    if i got in a scoot scoot and set my mind to drive to Parkland to lay a wreath

    how much human suffering and grief would i pass on the way?

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  89. My condolences, urbanleftbehind.

    I’m not much of a big picture person myself. More of a sparrow’s fall guy. The suffering of one person or one million does not diminish the suffering of another person in my eyes. It’s no argument to me that “only” 17 people were killed in Parkland when 3 million were killed in Cambodia.

    nk (dbc370)


  90. But it’s to be expected you miss the actual point of the 2A. The founders thought an armed citizenry would make a large military establishment unnecessary. Police didn’t exist back then in any meaningful way, but they too fall under the rubric of Standing Army.
    Kishnevi (a6653c) — 2/15/2018 @ 8:09 pm


    Thank you, Kishnevi. It’s difficult for me to face a week without being talked down to by your graciousness. Your condescension to make a point makes it soooo much better. And although I realize you are smarter, more educated, more noble and virtuous than I, still from reading other historic writings by Jay, Madison and Jefferson during the course of my uneducated and ignorant life I still disagree with your opinion of the second amendment and it’s reason for existence. I just don’t recall reading where any of them thought the second would in any way substitute for an army especially since we had an army.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  91. @74…You have an excellent point, Dave especially “the police and the FBI can only deprive you of your liberty if you’ve committed a crime or appear to be about to do so in the very near future.”
    Again, on the one hand Liberty on the other safety. (Insert favorite quote here). But I was just trying to point out that these people all had FBI profiles and perhaps, just perhaps the FBI dropped the ball a couple times. I realize nothing is perfect least wise a government agency like the FBI however, when they screw up we die.

    As you probably guess, Dave, I’m not the sort to give up my Liberty for security to the degree necessary to be 100% safe, or 90% or whatever percent would require me to disarm so crazy or evil people and the government would be the only ones who are armed. I’ve noticed in history that when the crazy and evil people and the government are the only ones armed the crazy and evil people become the government.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  92. Actually, the Constitution does not provide for a standing army. It provides for a two-year army. A standing navy, however, seems to be ok.

    Article I, Section 8:
    The Congress shall have power to …

    To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;

    To provide and maintain a navy;

    But my view of the Second Amendment is that it abolished the feudal distinction between an upper class which was allowed to bear arms and a lower class which was not. Which is what the gun controllers want to bring back, by having only the police and military, but not civilians, be armed.

    nk (dbc370)

  93. Condolences, urbanleftbehind.

    mg (47ca93)

  94. I realized, after reading …

    https://www.amazon.com/Two-Leggings-Making-Crow-Warrior/dp/0803283512

    …I was more of a Crow than she’ll ever be a Cherokee. At least I had the decency to read a book. Feel free to shoot me if ever find it within myself to contribute my recipe for Pere al Vino Rosso to a monstrosity approaching “Pow Wow Chow.”

    Or, just ask me for the recipe for the vino rosso and we can call it a day.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  95. Elizabeth Warren is the she I was thinking of.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  96. There are heroes in war too. No doubt this man is a hero. But heroes are also used to glorify war. But war is not glorious. It’s mainly just killing people. It’s almost as if it’s an argument to let the massacres go on and do nothing about it. I don’t know what Aaron would think about that.
    I’m fine with recognizing this man, and others, who sacrificed themselves. I’m not so comfortable if it’s used in a way to try to glorify mass shootings in any way. To coin a term, these slaughters need to be gorified, not glorified.

    Tillman (a95660)

  97. http://www.statesmanjournal.com/story/news/politics/2018/02/15/oregon-domestic-violence-gun-bill-passes-house-has-support-senate/343045002/

    I’ve seen this abused by mommy court where female bias works for them in false accusations the court never resolves for their own financial gain in county revenue

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  98. Show me a hero and I’ll write you a tragedy. — F. Scott Fitzgerald

    It’s how it is.

    nk (dbc370)

  99. Heroes are only found in adversity. Without it, they are at best philanthropists.

    nk (dbc370)

  100. 108. Almost, nk, actually the best heroes prevent tragedies.

    Tillman (a95660)

  101. Patterico is a hero to the extent that he has gotten killers (and other horrible people) out of our society. He has prevented tragedies.

    Tillman (a95660)

  102. The word Hero gets bandied about and watered down a lot but giving your life for others certainly qualifies.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  103. Trade War coming

    Profile photo
    Jonathan Swan 42 mins ago
    FEATURED
    Commerce recommends major tariffs on steel and aluminum

    Photo: Olivier Douliery / Getty Images
    The Department of Commerce will recommend tariffs on steel and aluminum that, if applied, would be the first shots in a global trade war, according to two sources briefed on the report.

    Aluminum: 7.7% tariff on all aluminum exports from all countries. 23.5% on all products from China, Russia, Venezuela and Vietnam. A quota on imports from all countries to a maximum of 86.7% of their 2017 exports to the U.S.
    Steel: Global tariff of 24% on all imports. Tariff of 53% (at least) on steel imports from Brazil, China, Costa Rica, Egypt, India, Malaysia, Korea, Russia, South Africa, Thailand, Turkey and Vietnam. A quota of 63% of 2017 exports for the countries listed in the prior sentence. All other countries can export at 100% of 2017 levels, but above that face tariffs.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)


  104. But war is not glorious. It’s mainly just killing people. It’s almost as if it’s an argument to let the massacres go on and do nothing about it. Tillman


    You found no glory when you were at war? In none of your battles or firefights you never discovered your inner hero, your valor or your cowardice? I’m sure with all the battlefield experience you’ve accumulated you have an expert opinion of war and glory. Tell me, at any time while you were in battle did you ever have to overcome paralyzing fear to save a friend or kill an enemy? I’m interested because you seem to know so much about glory.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  105. In the fall of 1958 Theodore Kaczynski, a brilliant but vulnerable boy of sixteen, entered Harvard College. There he encountered a prevailing intellectual atmosphere of anti-technological despair. There, also, he was deceived into subjecting himself to a series of purposely brutalizing psychological experiments—experiments that may have confirmed his still-forming belief in the evil of science. Was the Unabomber born at Harvard? A look inside the files

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2000/06/harvard-and-the-making-of-the-unabomber/378239/

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  106. the sleazy incompetent Chris Wray fbi has its priorities way out of wack

    and people are dying

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  107. 108. Almost, nk, actually the best heroes prevent tragedies.

    Tillman (a95660) — 2/16/2018 @ 9:14 am

    You don’t know just what I want to tell you to do to yourself.

    I don’t know of anyone who can prevent an entire tragedy. Not entirely. But I know of heroes who prevented a bad situation from getting worse. Here’s one.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oUtJxE4sjs

    MSG Roy Benavidez speech 1991

    Hero is not a word I throw around lightly.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  108. Hoagie, while heroic acts can happen in any dangerous situation, war in general is not glorious. It might be a necessary means to preserve your country, but never glorious in general – only a necessary evil.

    Tillman (a95660)

  109. Almost, nk, actually the best heroes prevent tragedies.

    Absolutely. And Aaron Feis saved the lives of the students for whom he took the bullets intended for them.

    The root word of hero, hera, is beneficial acts. Someone who only suffers without conferring a benefit on others is at best only a martyr.

    Hero = extraordinary benefit to others in the face of extraordinary adversity.

    nk (dbc370)

  110. The root word of hero, hera, *means* beneficial acts.

    nk (dbc370)

  111. Steel: Global tariff of 24% on all imports. Tariff of 53% (at least) on steel imports from …

    I have trouble believing that even Donald Trump could be that stupid.

    Dave (b9fc4b)

  112. You almost certainly must die to get CMH but Silver Star is still heroic.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  113. I can understand the confusion in today’s pop culture, with Hollywood and paperback writers glorifying dragons, vampires, serial killers, hitmen, robbers, drug dealers, spies, hookers, and even cannibals. Our remote ancestors who gave us the word “hero” had their heads on more straight.

    nk (dbc370)

  114. Breaking: Mueller indicts 13 Russian nationals for US election meddling

    Dave (b9fc4b)

  115. I doubt Trump gets into the numbers Dave.

    Make it a yuge amount guys

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  116. Will the Russians call President Trump as a witness to testify that they dint do nuffin?

    Dave (b9fc4b)

  117. Hoagie didn’t like Deer Hunter?

    Converted anti-war hero.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  118. 122. Dave (b9fc4b) — 2/16/2018 @ 10:01 am

    I have trouble believing that even Donald Trump could be that stupid.

    Of course he is. This is one of his few longtime positions.

    Donald Trump believes imports are harmful to the U.S. economy, and exports helpful, and if imports are not copunterbalanced by exports, he thinks it is a problem.

    He’s got nobody to argue against that idea with him in the White House, and if somebody does try, it is not in a way he understands, because they don’t have a deep understanding of this themselves.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  119. Donald Trump believes imports are harmful to the U.S. economy, and exports helpful, and if imports are not counterbalanced by exports, he thinks it is a problem.

    OK, Spanky. Turn off the TV and get that porn model off your lap. No, I don’t care if she’s your wife. Now listen up, Imma explain this one more time.

    If China gave us steel for free, that would be sweet, wouldn’t it? Our companies could use that steel to make products and sell them cheaper than if we’d had to pay full price for the steel, right? And because it costs less to make the products, their prices will be lower and more people will be able to afford those products, so the companies will be able to produce and sell more of them.

    OK, so the Chinese aren’t gonna give us steel for free, but they WILL give it to us for a lot less than it would cost to make it ourselves, or to buy it elsewhere. We still get all the same benefits, just a little less than if the steel was completely free.

    Even an ignorant dolt like you can understand that, can’t you, Spanky?

    Dave (b9fc4b)

  120. Breaking: Mueller indicts 13 Russian nationals for US election meddling

    Dave (b9fc4b) — 2/16/2018 @ 10:03 am

    Breaking: Russians have been meddling in U.S. elections since 1917.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  121. We have spoken with victims and families, and deeply regret the additional pain this causes all those affected by this horrific tragedy. All of the men and women of the FBI are dedicated to keeping the American people safe, and are relentlessly committed to improving all that we do and how we do it.”

    I believe this to be true for many Agents and associates in the Main, but unfortunately it’s a laggardly bureaucracy and not just FBI.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  122. Steve57 approves the Alien and Sedition Act.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  123. we know the FBI is incompetent and perverted but come again?

    why did they need a super-special sleazy dildo-lick like Robert Mueller to do their job for them?

    there’s nothing about this indictment what remotely suggests this investigation couldn’t have been handled by rank-and-file fbi jackoffs and various other entities

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  124. Ach! Teh Heroes of liberty.

    The Alien Enemies Acts remained in effect at the outset of World War I.[29] It was recodified to be part of the US war and national defense statutes (50 USC 21–24).[29]

    On December 7, 1941, responding to the bombing of Pearl Harbor, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt used the authority of the revised Alien Enemies Act to issue presidential proclamations 2525 (Alien Enemies – Japanese), 2526 (Alien Enemies – German), and 2527 (Alien Enemies – Italian), to apprehend, restrain, secure and remove Japanese, German, and Italian non-citizens.[29] On February 19, 1942, citing authority of the wartime powers of the president and commander in chief, Roosevelt made Executive Order 9066, authorizing the Secretary of War to prescribe military areas and giving him authority that superseded the authority of other executives under Proclamations 2525-7. EO 9066 led to the internment of Japanese Americans, whereby over 110,000 people of Japanese ancestry living on the Pacific coast were forcibly relocated and forced to live in camps in the interior of the country, 62% of whom were United States citizens, not aliens.[30][31]

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  125. 124. nk, have you seen the new movie 12 Strong? I have – it’s a war hero movie. Yes, they still make ’em.

    Tillman (a95660)

  126. Uncommon Valor

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  127. Chinese steel is not trustworthy. My Chinese knives are wonderful examples of the CNC machinist’s art (and the genius of the American, German and Russian knifemakers from whom the designs were stolen), but the sharpness and edge holding leave a great deal to be desired. They do not come close to my thirty plus years old American knives.

    nk (dbc370)

  128. There’s really three ways to deal with it:

    Rigorously identify mental health issues,with all the intrusiveness and potential for abuse that entails.

    Turned schools and other places into minifortresses which the public must accept for the sake of education, shopping,etc–not just armed teachers and bulletproof doors, but vetting and security checks for everyone who enters and leaves

    Heavily restricting the sorts of guns and ammo the public can buy and locations where they can buy them.

    Your choice–but I think the first two possibilities mean far greater infringement on liberty than anything the third option could produce.
    Kishnevi (a2d7ac) — 2/15/2018 @ 6:53 pm

    Really? The other two choices are not intrusive and do not have any potential for abuse? Just the first?

    felipe (5b25e2)

  129. I don’t know what an observation of an obvious fact has to do with approval of a specific law. Perhaps the @$$hole might want to explain.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  130. Maybe a specific question from the trollop…

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  131. 139

    Harbor Freight quality tools though?…

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  132. I have a feeling by Mueller’s definition NBC has been meddling in US elections since 1926.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  133. Breaking: Mueller indicts 13 Russian nationals for US election meddling

    Breaking: Mueller indicts a ham sandwich.

    random viking (6a54c2)

  134. Nearly everything comes from China.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  135. But ham sandwiches come from Russia.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  136. Campaign was duped by Russians
    .lol.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  137. The Russians had to be twice as smart as Trumpets in order to succeed.

    Fortunately for the Russians this was not difficult.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  138. Chinese steel is not trustworthy. My Chinese knives are wonderful examples of the CNC machinist’s art (and the genius of the American, German and Russian knifemakers from whom the designs were stolen), but the sharpness and edge holding leave a great deal to be desired. They do not come close to my thirty plus years old American knives.

    nk (dbc370) — 2/16/2018 @ 10:29 am

    I trust K-Bar, Columbia River Knife and Tool, and Case. That’s pretty much it. But that covers a lot of ground.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  139. nk, have you seen the new movie 12 Strong? I have – it’s a war hero movie.

    No, I haven’t. I think the last war movie I saw was The Enemy At The Gates, about a Russian sniper at the Siege of Stalingrad. It was interesting because I knew the backstory from WWII history books. Stalin’s propaganda machine made a popular hero out of a back-shooting, long-distance bushwhacker, and then Hollywood did it again fifty years later.

    nk (dbc370)

  140. No Collusion but lots of dumbasses.

    Wasn’t Andrew Johnson impeached for stupidity?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  141. Were these Russians committing wanton acts of free speech?

    Betcha they did.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  142. Breaking: Wind

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  143. 139

    Harbor Freight quality tools though?…
    Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 2/16/2018 @ 10:34 am

    I have a Harbor Freight die grinder. Good quality oil makes it last a long time.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  144. Steve, I know you don’t like to click my links, but I promise this one is an eight-minute video of my favorite new knife. (Not the $130 version; the $19.00 version.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18COB8vwXEg

    It’s a work of art, in both design and fit and finish. Check out how it opens like a switchblade without any springs or buttons — just lack of friction; and locks without a separate locking mechanism — just a cutout on one scale which makes part of it a locking bar.

    nk (dbc370)

  145. die grinder

    Their extended warranty is a must.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  146. A few years back I heard gun fire in the middle of the night. Close by. Less than a block away. I was dressed [edit]ing off with the computer, so I went outside. Heard it again. Ran toward the shots.

    My next door neighbor was out ahead of me taking cover behind a tree, motioning me over.

    We’re both over there taking peeks from behind the tree when shots rang out again.

    It wasn’t shots. It was bottle rockets being shot off by some clown in a backyard across the street from the tree we were crouched behind.

    Being a hero is a matter of circumstances. You probably have it in you built in.

    Hopefully the situation never comes up where you have to use it.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  147. I must have bought that 1/4″ angle die grinder in 2010. I’m a disciple of David Vizard the Wizard of horsepower fame.

    https://www.facebook.com/DavidVizardAuto

    It was from him I learned to make Harbor Freight tools last. Ask me about my welder.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  148. A small price to pay for our second amendment rights! ban gun grabbers not guns. our motto should be oppose gun control or leave america.

    america first (9766fa)

  149. Even now, Rob Lasky, the F.B.I. special agent in charge in Miami, wasn’t willing to say it was definitely the same person.

    Other missed chances:

    1. Somebody talked Nikolas Cruz out oif doing soemthing like that a few years ago.

    2. In the day of the massacre, Cruz encountered someone he knew, who sqw him with the gun, but he ddin’t want to kll him, or wasn’t ready to start, so he told him to get out of there:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/florida-shooting-nikolas-cruz-warned-freshman-chris-mckenna-parkland-latest-a8214851.html

    Fifteen-year-old Chris McKenna told a local paper that he came across suspected gunman Nikolas Cruz in the hallway just minutes before he allegedly started his rampage.

    “You’d better get out of here,” Mr Cruz said, according to Chris. “Things are gonna start getting messy.”

    Chris froze for a minute, he told the Sun-Sentinel, and then ran. He ran out of the building and into Aaron Feis, the assistant football coach, who was unlocking the school gates for dismissal.

    “I told him I saw a gun,” Chris said. “He said ‘let me go check it out.’ Then he drove me to the baseball field, dropped me off, and went back to the school. That’s the last I saw of him.”

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  150. A small price to pay for our second amendment rights! ban gun grabbers not guns. our motto should be oppose gun control or leave america.

    america first (9766fa) — 2/16/2018 @ 12:36 pm

    What price have you paid?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=415HQ1t2ZNI

    Yeah, it wasn’t the biggest price ever paid. I am eternally grateful for that. But still, I paid a price.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)


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