Patterico's Pontifications

2/3/2018

Um, Guys? The FISA Application Discussed in #TheMemo Did NOT Target a “Trump Campaign Adviser”

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 10:30 am



Will Rogers once said: “It isn’t what we don’t know that gives us trouble, it’s what we know that ain’t so.” If you ask someone who is waving around #TheMemo why it makes them so upset, they’re likely to tell you that the FBI used unverified political oppo research to target someone working for the Trump campaign. Take, for example, this passage from an Andrew C. McCarthy piece yesterday:

What we have long suspected (see, e.g., here and here) has now been confirmed: The Obama Justice Department and the FBI used the unverified Steele dossier to convince a federal court to issue a warrant authorizing surveillance of a Trump campaign adviser.

There’s just one problem with that formulation: it’s not true. That sentence is missing a very important word: “former.”

The FBI’s FISA application discussed in #TheMemo did not target a “Trump campaign adviser.” Rather, the FISA application asked permission to surveil Carter Page, former Trump campaign adviser. And, by the way, Page was known to law enforcement as early as 2013, long before he ever joined the Trump campaign.

Susan Wright mentioned this fact this morning, but the misconception is so widespread and so central that I think it deserves its own post.

Remember: the yuuuuge and giant revelations in #TheMemo all centered around the FISA applications to surveil Carter Page. But Carter Page stepped down as a Trump foreign policy adviser on September 26, 2016. According to #TheMemo, the first FISA application targeting Page was obtained almost a month later, on October 21, 2016: “On October 21, 2016, DOJ and FBI sought and received a FISA probable cause order (not under Title VII) authorizing electronic surveillance on Carter Page from the FISC.”

The fact that Page was not a member of the Trump campaign when the initial FISA application was granted is not some new revelation. It has been known for months. For example, the New York Times reported in April 2017:

After Mr. Page, 45 — a Navy veteran and businessman who had lived in Moscow for three years — stepped down from the Trump campaign in September, the F.B.I. obtained a warrant from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court allowing the authorities to monitor his communications on the suspicion that he was a Russian agent.

Yet that does not stop the world from repeating the error McCarthy makes in the quote above: that the application to surveil Carter Page sought “a warrant authorizing surveillance of a Trump campaign adviser.” I see this repeated all over the Internet, in very prominent places.

For example, Fox News’s initial story on #TheMemo yesterday got a lot of attention, because Catherine Herridge appeared to have an advance copy of #TheMemo. Her article (with Alex Pappas and Brooke Singman) was titled House memo states disputed dossier was key to FBI’s FISA warrant to surveil members of Team Trump and opened with this misstatement:

A much-hyped memo that shows alleged government surveillance abuse during the 2016 campaign has been released to the public and cites testimony from a high-ranking government official who says the FBI and DOJ would not have sought surveillance warrants to spy on a member of the Trump team without the infamous, Democrat-funded anti-Trump dossier.

Similarly, Victor Davis Hanson says:

If all this is not a scandal — then the following protocols are now considered permissible in American electoral practice and constitutional jurisprudence: An incumbent administration can freely use the FBI and the DOJ to favor one side in a presidential election, by buying its opposition research against the other candidate, using its own prestige to authenticate such a third-party oppositional dossier, and then using it to obtain court-ordered wiretaps on American citizens employed by a candidate’s campaign — and do so by deliberately misleading the court about the origins and authors of the dossier that was used to obtain the warrants.

If you look, you can find dozens more examples along the same lines. It seems that everybody and their dog believes that the FBI was targeting a current Trump campaign adviser in Carter Page.

This false conclusion is encouraged by the characteristically slippery language of #TheMemo itself. Here’s the relevant passage:

Very clever. “On October 21, 2016, DOJ and FBI sought and received a FISA probable cause order (not under Title VII) authorizing electronic surveillance on Carter Page from the FISC. Page is a U.S. citizen who served as a volunteer advisor to the Trump campaign.” These facts are all true. It’s not their fault if you drew the mistaken inference that Page was a Trump campaign advisor at the time the order was sought! All they did was state true facts!

Look: nothing I say in this post, or any post about #TheMemo, is going to change anybody’s mind, on either side. People’s minds are too hardened by now. But at the very least, could we get our news organizations and pundits to stop running around repeating false statements of fact? I don’t think it’s asking too much to suggest that we let people make up their minds based on actual facts and not oft-repeated falsehoods.

[Cross-posted at RedState and The Jury Talks Back.]

371 Responses to “Um, Guys? The FISA Application Discussed in #TheMemo Did NOT Target a “Trump Campaign Adviser””

  1. but the warrant that the lickspittle rubberstampin’ FISA judge approved allowed for the gestapo FBI to collect all the emails of Carter Page during the time he was associated with the Trump campaign

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  2. He was, however, in contact with any number of people who WERE working for the Trump campaign, and depending on what you believe about FISA warrants, may have been a gateway to campaign communications. While the conditions and details are murky and behind the secrecy wall, many reports say that a FISA warrant allows them to surveil folks 3 “hops” away from the named individual.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  3. I empathize with those who give up swimming against the current meme.

    So what is to be gleaned? Take a shot in the Dark.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  4. And happy is right — they can paw back through their treasure trove as far as they have saved it, along with his phone history, and the phone histories of those he phoned, and the phone histories of those THEY phoned.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  5. What was Wrays hand-wringing about?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  6. Executive communications would be tricky.

    You would have to have a many tentacles system..maybe even to the AT.

    https://www.salon.com/2018/01/31/mueller-wants-to-know-if-trump-pressured-jeff-sessions-for-recusing-himself/

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  7. Attorney General..

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  8. just cause cowardpig John McCain likes to lick dirty fbi heinie doesn’t mean the rest of us have to you know

    it’s called free will hello

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  9. In this context, our host is right that the distinction between “Trump campaign adviser” and “former Trump campaign adviser” is a material one, and that clarity ought be preserved.

    I’d like to see the original FISA application, and the renewal applications, to see the extent, if any, to which Page’s role as a former Trump campaign adviser was discussed. The fact that Page had already left the campaign is important; but by no means whatsoever is it a silver bullet that turns this whole thing into a nothing-burger. Federal surveillance of even a former campaign adviser based on bogus allegations can still be a very, very serious abuse of government power! I don’t understand our host to be arguing otherwise.

    And our host’s quote proper insistence on recognizing this distinction should also remind us of another big-picture observation that we need to keep continuously in mind, viz: This memo is only about the potential abuse, and not its consequences. We know almost nothing about the consequences yet! And those consequences — whether there are any, and if so, how severe they were, and with respect to whom — could be incredibly important.

    My hunch is that the most consequential part of any of this was creating the fig leaf of a federal investigation into Trump collusion with Russia for purposes of leaks to the press, and that the products of the Carter Page surveillance probably did turn out to be nothing-burgers. But that’s just a wild guess, and I’d like not to have to guess. If it turns out instead, for instance, that Page’s phone calls and emails during the period of the surveillance include significant contacts with people still with the Trump campaign, the burger begins to get bigger, juicier, and more consequential.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  10. Thank you for this post. It may not change anyone’s mind, but it should.

    Jonny Scrum-half (d9ab76)

  11. He was, however, in contact with any number of people who WERE working for the Trump campaign, and depending on what you believe about FISA warrants, may have been a gateway to campaign communications. While the conditions and details are murky and behind the secrecy wall, many reports say that a FISA warrant allows them to surveil folks 3 “hops” away from the named individual.

    Even if the campaign stayed in touch with someone from whom they had purported to distance themselves from, it is still inaccurate to say that they were allowed to surveil a Trump campaign adviser. If you want to say they were allowed to surveil a former Trump campaign adviser, you can then argue that it’s still significant because their authority included obtaining written communications from when he had been with the campaign, and also collecting any communications between himself and members of the campaign that he had supposedly left and had nothing more to do with. But don’t say they were surveilling a campaign adviser and leave it at that, because it sends the wrong impression — and many, many people (including some smart and prominent ones) have apparently been misled.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  12. One problem with you analysis:

    I’m going to preface this by saying that its based on my understanding of how FISA applications work, and I never personally was involved in one in my career — but a FISA warrant is different from a regular wiretap in that it is not “prospective” only.

    A FISA warrant allows the counter-intelligence community to examine all stored information that has been captured regarding the subject of the warrant. This is where the NSA and its massive data base of “upstream” material comes into play.

    So while it may be true that in late October, 2016, Page was no longer a volunteer advisor to the Trump campaign, the FISA warrant allowed the FBI to go back through all the communications of Page that the NSA had captured with its various abilitities to vacuum up signals intelligence.

    That would include stored electronic communications such as emails — including all emails during the period of time Page worked for the Trump campaign.

    And in that regard, it would include all emails transmissions in which Page was a sender or recipient with other campaign officials.

    This is where the “unmasking” and 702 “about” queries become important. Page emails sent to the FBI under the warrant should have had identifying information for other US citizens redacted or “masked.” But the recipient of the intelligence could have asked to have those identifies unmasked by the NSA.

    We don’t know yet if any of the unmasking requests done by members of the Obama administration involved Carter Page intercepts, and who was unmasked. But I suspect this is going to be a subject of later work by Nunues and Gowdy since it would link the two issues that the Intel committee and Oversight committee have been pursuing.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  13. I’d like to see the original FISA application, and the renewal applications, to see the extent, if any, to which Page’s role as a former Trump campaign adviser was discussed. The fact that Page had already left the campaign is important; but by no means whatsoever is it a silver bullet that turns this whole thing into a nothing-burger. Federal surveillance of even a former campaign adviser based on bogus allegations can still be a very, very serious abuse of government power! I don’t understand our host to be arguing otherwise.

    Quite correct.

    And I too would like to see the FISA application (and renewals, including the one made during the Trump administration).

    If only there were some figure in the U.S. Government who had the power to declassify it…

    Patterico (115b1f)

  14. So we’re supposed to be okay with the fact that the DOJ and FBI dressed up an opposition research dossier to spy on an American citizen without telling the FISA judge the origins. Frightening logic…or more accurately illogic.

    Bill Saracino (ad0096)

  15. Still mincing over Page?

    Why am I not surprised

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  16. The FISA warrant was the vehicle from which the unmasking and leaking led to Mueller. You can’t be saying that none of this was directed at Trump can you?

    AZ Bob (f60c80)

  17. Is the Dem memo release depend on whether we connect the dots, and the dot is not in a Page?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  18. One problem with you analysis:

    I’m going to preface this by saying that its based on my understanding of how FISA applications work, and I never personally was involved in one in my career — but a FISA warrant is different from a regular wiretap in that it is not “prospective” only.

    A FISA warrant allows the counter-intelligence community to examine all stored information that has been captured regarding the subject of the warrant. This is where the NSA and its massive data base of “upstream” material comes into play.

    So while it may be true that in late October, 2016, Page was no longer a volunteer advisor to the Trump campaign, the FISA warrant allowed the FBI to go back through all the communications of Page that the NSA had captured with its various abilitities to vacuum up signals intelligence.

    That would include stored electronic communications such as emails — including all emails during the period of time Page worked for the Trump campaign.

    That’s a good and illuminating point, although I don’t see it as a “problem” with my analysis. As I said in comment 11, if people want to make that point, they need to make it specifically. The way it has been phrased, it makes people believe that there was authority to conduct active surveillance, which surveillance was physically occurring during the time that the man was employed by the Trump campaign. That didn’t happen. Now: if what you claim is true (and I have no reason to doubt it) then with respect to emails it may be a distinction with little difference, to the extent that emails were captured and stored for later review. But other forms of surveillance would not be possible — including wiretapping, e.g., which is quite significant because that is what the boob Trump originally alleged in his tweets.

    Precision is called for — and most of the commentators, like McCarthy, Hanson, Herridge, and so forth — are being very imprecise, to the detriment of the public’s ability to understand what is going on.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  19. So what was the urgency what did they get for a year or so of surveillance? He was trying to drum up business in , he got squat.

    narciso (854853)

  20. 9 — re the last point.

    If a FISA renewal is similar in kind to a T-III renewal, then among the material that would be included in a renewal — and different in this regard from the application — would be a summary of relevant and pertinent intercepted material that supports the continuation of the warrant. In other words, when you ask for an extension of a normal T-III wiretap, you have to provide summaries to the Court of intercepted calls which support the basis upon which the surveillance was authorized — is the wiretap producing evidence that the person who is subject to the interception actually involved in criminal activity as alleged in the application? If not, you need a good explanation to continue.

    ASSUMING — because I never did a FISA warrant myself (though I have a basis for knowing some of this stuff) — that a similar requirement existed for a FISA, then each 90 day renewal likely included information to the FISC which supported the claim which got the warrant approved in the first place, i.e., that Page was acting as an agent for Russia.

    THAT subject is one where the FBI might really fear having its work too closely scrutinized. If all his protests of innocence are correct, then the warrant didn’t accumulate much information in that regard. So it makes you wonder why the FBI would continue with the renewals well past the inauguration.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  21. So we’re supposed to be okay with the fact that the DOJ and FBI dressed up an opposition research dossier to spy on an American citizen without telling the FISA judge the origins.

    Nothing is less helpful than someone saying “so you’re saying x” when x is something you didn’t say.

    I don’t accept your factual premise. That is what the Nunes memo alleges. It’s an allegation by a partisan whom I see as having little credibility, for various reasons. It is certainly not an established “fact” at this point.

    Until I see the FISA application I don’t know if it’s true. And I never said that would be OK.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  22. Russia, how about ioffe isikoff nakashima, entous st al they got nothing,

    narciso (854853)

  23. The FISA warrant was the vehicle from which the unmasking and leaking led to Mueller. You can’t be saying that none of this was directed at Trump can you?

    I’m not saying that. I don’t know if that is the case.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  24. Mr Jones:

    Are you saying somethings happening but you don’t know what it Is? Do you?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  25. the FBI’s dirty and partisan Mr. Bob

    it’s basically an organization what’s wholly subservient to the Democratic National Committee (this is why they call it the lickspittle gestapo FBI)

    but the thing about these trashy FBI lickspittles is – have you noticed?

    they’re all super-thin!

    GET THE LOOK

    you take the jicama and peel it, which isn’t as tedious as it sounds – i use a paring knife not a peeler but whatever

    slice it into 3 or 4 rounds – big thick rounds

    toss it in olive oil and lots of salt and pepper

    (i go overboard with the pepper)

    put it in a baking dish and dump the rest of the oil/seasonings on top

    bake it at 400 for 50 minutes

    it’s the best treat ever

    it is a *lil* carby so it’s not every day (lots of fiber carbs)

    but it doesn’t put me over limit by any means

    it has like NO calories

    it gives you something substantive to eat

    and so tasty

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  26. 18 – -that’s why I tried to present it in a respectful and with a “Lets add to the picture” kind of analysis, with an angle that I didn’t think you would necessarily catch right off. FISA is different than a regular warrant that you would be more likely to be familiar with — same as me.

    And I think its an important distinction that you have made here with respect to Page’s departure from the campaign, and one that is being glossed over and misreported.

    The problem that “precision” is encountering right now is that the “reporting” has gone on for such long time, there are memes of stories that are a step or two away from the actual events, and the memes begin to take on the patina of being a fact. So the memes get reported as facts, when the memes have been corrupted in the media by the biases of the reporters — on both sides.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  27. 18 — your phone calls are stored by the NSA too. Don’t fool yourself.

    If the FBI wants to know about a conversation you had 6 months ago, its quite likely that the NSA’s upstream data bases can locate the call in a recorded fashion somewhere.

    In today’s day and age, just like data sent over the internet never really disappears, data broadcast over cellular networks never really disappears.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  28. The problem that “precision” is encountering right now is that the “reporting” has gone on for such long time, there are memes of stories that are a step or two away from the actual events, and the memes begin to take on the patina of being a fact. So the memes get reported as facts, when the memes have been corrupted in the media by the biases of the reporters — on both sides.

    Bingo! That pretty much summarizes the point of the post — and it’s probably the thing you have said that I agree with most of all the things you have said in recent months.

    And any time anyone steps forward to bring us away from the memes back to the actual facts, they get mobbed by people who (like Bill Saracino above) put words in the mouth of the person trying to correct the record.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  29. That’s your point?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  30. Bingo!

    it’s all about precision

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  31. That is the question, the simple answer is because they could rosenstein didn’t see anything wrong with continuing the surveillance might as well have Bruce ohrs
    Boss Sally Yates in there.

    narciso (d1f714)

  32. It seemed like a subordinate point, leading to a bigger point.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  33. 18 — your phone calls are stored by the NSA too. Don’t fool yourself.

    If the FBI wants to know about a conversation you had 6 months ago, its quite likely that the NSA’s upstream data bases can locate the call in a recorded fashion somewhere.

    In today’s day and age, just like data sent over the internet never really disappears, data broadcast over cellular networks never really disappears.

    I’ve seen allegations that happens, but nothing ever proven that I’m aware of, with the exception of the Bahamas.

    But hey. If the Trump administration wants to bolster some dumb tweets by Trump by revealing that the NSA stores all our calls, therefore Obama wiretapped Trump, and also Trump is currently wiretapping each and every one of us, let them make that announcement.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  34. One cannot disassociate this from the criminal cover-up of Clinton’s campaign misdeeds, every player doing the same
    Two step.

    narciso (d1f714)

  35. Patterico–

    The fact that he was not a current campaign advisor has been part of the talking points for the last year. But to say that he was not connected to the campaign is JUST as misleading as saying that he was still working for them, when it comes to FISA warrants.

    Email history, phone logs, current conversations and whatever “hops” are allowed with a US person, not to mention the possibility that calls originating in some locations (e.g. D.C.) are recorded and stored.

    It’s really not limiting to say that he’d left the campaign IF the point was to deniably surveil it.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  36. isn’t it weird how president food stamp still lives in Wsahington, D.C. with his FBI lickspittle lackeys as neighbors?

    i think that’s weird

    it’s pretty weird huh

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  37. And let me mention something that I mentioned in one of my late night comments last night in the other thread which is likely being overlooked.

    From my experience, a very real issue of importance that is being underappreciated here is the continued reliance by the FBI on Steele’s work AFTER Steele was terminated as a “CHS” — “confidential human source” — because he revealed his connection to the FBI in his interview with David Corn of Mother Jones, which was published 10 days after the FISA application was approved.

    Based on his history of having worked with the FBI, and based on his own time as an MI6 agent, that was not just an innocent mistake by Steele. He knew the consequences of revealing to the press his relationship with the FBI — its grounds for automatic termination, and that’s exactly what the FBI did. In addition to knowing the ground rules from his historical work with the FBI, Steele would have signed a “NDA” when he was opened as a CHS — meaning he agreed in writing to not disclose to anyone his relationship with the FBI — ever. So he would have been expressly told when he agreed to be a “CHS”.

    How do I know this happened? Because he was “terminated” as a source by the FBI, and the FBI the did a “threat assessment” in the aftermath of his termination to determine what potential damage might result from that termination.

    These are very specific processes required by FBI regulations, and the fact that they were carried out here tells me that the relationship with the FBI was formalized and specific.

    Now when you add this information to the testimony from Glenn Simpson about the circumstances which led Steele to take his dossier to the press, you get a much better picture of Steele’s partisanship, and his desperation to see that Trump not win the election in the time frame of late October, 2016. He was afraid that the FBI was not acting aggressively enough with regard to Trump and Russia, so even though he understood the consequences in terms of his relationship with the FBI, he opted to go to the press in order to get the claims in his dossier out into the public sphere.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  38. The people that will accuse you of nitpicking this to death because if your insistence on precision are the same people that scream the loudest when they believe the media has twisted something intentionally to make their side look bad. This kind of rank partisanship has resulted in things like precise wording as little more than a pesky annoyance – unless it benefits their side of course. Ultimately, it’s a game of a dishonesty and willingness to compromise more and more in order to continue to push one side’s narrative.

    Everybody who is interested in accuracy and truth, no matter how they feel about the memo, etc., should be applauding anyone who points out this small detail.

    Dana (f580e5)

  39. oopers *Washington, D.C.* I mean

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  40. There is also the issue of reports that some NSA take involving US persons was being discussed in the Obama WH.

    White House lawyers last month discovered that the former national security adviser Susan Rice requested the identities of U.S. persons in raw intelligence reports on dozens of occasions that connect to the Donald Trump transition and campaign, according to U.S. officials familiar with the matter.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/04/did-susan-rice-ask-to-unmask-trump-officials/521688/

    Kevin M (752a26)

  41. It Obama wanted to wiretap Trump, why would he need FISA? Now Presidents have access to everyone’s calls, and the Obama Administration used daily unmasking to learn who was involved in the communications. Why would they need to target Page?

    DRJ (15874d)

  42. Carter Page was just one facet of the dossier – just another data point for the FISA court to consider, and a relatively benign one at that. If you’ve ever heard him speak or listened to the opinions of colleagues, he was a very small fish. In the dossier, there are references to illegal activity of Trump and other members of the campaign. And the outrage of a U.S. citizen (campaign advisor or not) being improperly surveilled is justifiable, but exceeded by the use of the dossier to frame an opposition campaign of “collusion” in the court of public opinion. Remember, Glenn Simpson paid media outlets to print Steele’s and his unsubstantiated charges. The intent was to cripple Trump and his administration.

    Carter Page’s employment status, I think, is a red herring. Judge Rosemary Collyer’s Memorandum and Opinion issued April 2017 (link below) notes that DOJ/FBI broke the NSA rules for minimization and allowed contractors access to raw intelligence. These were most likely the unmaskings that Samantha Power claims were obtained by others forging her signature. And Susan Rice is on record saying that she had been furiously unmasking Trump and his staffers to leave a trail of bread crumbs of what she thought were crimes. I think we’ll be hearing more about this in the coming weeks.

    https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/icotr/51117/2016_Cert_FISC_Memo_Opin_Order_Apr_2017.pdf

    Lenny (5ea732)

  43. Follow-up to 37 which I meant to include but got sidetracked:

    The fact that the FBI continued to rely on Steele’s dossier information in the renewals — which the Memo claims and its all we have to go on that this point — when Steele was terminated as a source, is contrary to FBI practice. Once a source is terminated for misconduct — and talking to the press and revealing the relationship is “misconduct” — the FBI policy is to not use information obtained from that source. They are tainted by the termination, and to be able to use that information for other purposes would require a very high level waiver. In this instance I’m sure the waiver would have had to come from McCabe or Comey himself.

    The ONLY basis upon which McCabe or Comey would have given that waiver under the circumstances would have been that they were personally vouching for the credibility of the Steele dossier.

    And I would be very interested in knowing whether the first renewal in January 2017 included information to the FISC that the CHS relied upon in the original application had been terminated for cause as a CHS by the Bureau because of his unauthorized disclosures to the press.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  44. I’d like to know what else is in the FISA applications now that Trump has declassified them enough to release the Nunes’ memo. It sounds like these FISA files should be released.

    DRJ (15874d)

  45. I’ve seen allegations that happens, but nothing ever proven that I’m aware of, with the exception of the Bahamas.

    It’s not proven, but the Snowden slides on the PRISM operation list “VoIP” as one of the deliverables.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f3/PRISM_Collection_Details.jpg

    Kevin M (752a26)

  46. When we learn more about the unmasking requests of 702 collection that shipwreckedcrew refers to @12 we’ll learn if they were related to the Page FISA warrant/renewals and which came first – the unmasking and tracking leading to the warrant or the warrant leading to the unmasking and tracking. Clapper, Brennan and Comey have been equally cagey about who was doing what and when.

    crazy (d99a88)

  47. Everybody who is interested in accuracy and truth, no matter how they feel about the memo, etc., should be applauding anyone who points out this small detail.


    I agree and I have no problem following the truth wherever it may lead. I do however, get a tad aggravated at being sorta lectured about the truth and details and such only when it’s our side picking the friggin’ nits.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  48. Why would they need to target Page?

    Deniability, as they do now.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  49. So: Fiorina may have misstated things a bit, since the relationship between the footage of the kicking baby and the horrific actions described in the interview is more one of video illustration rather than video documentation of the incident itself. But this howling mob rushing to brand Fiorina’s comments as “pure fiction” has collectively erred far worse than Fiorina did.

    precision is so nuanced anymore huh

    more of an art than a science i guess you could say

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  50. The fact that the FBI continued to rely on Steele’s dossier information in the renewals …

    How do you know this? For instance, couldn’t some parts of the dossier have been corroborated by other sources or maybe new information was gathered after the initial warrant was issued, and that was the basis for renewal?

    DRJ (15874d)

  51. What has the last year been about, collusion treason, corruption those have been the watchword the ones who shepherded the peregruska through the Iran deal, now decided they are the arbiters of what is the proper relationship with russia.

    narciso (d1f714)

  52. the dossier was the only contemporary information in the warrant applications

    the other stuff was old news about stuff Mr. Page did years ago

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  53. If Obama wanted to wiretap Trump, why would he need FISA? Now Presidents have access to everyone’s calls, and the Obama Administration used daily unmasking to learn who was involved in the communications. Why would they need to target Page?

    More exactly … maybe you’re right. Maybe Obama had the lot of them tapped and sent the gist directly to Hillary’s team. Then they don’t need Carter Page, but it’s not a very good defense.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  54. They haven’t released the texts of the warrant applications, hf. Why are you so convinced you know what they say?

    DRJ (15874d)

  55. i know things DRJ

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  56. 41 — DRJ, unless you are really suggesting that the Obama Administration had gone full rogue and felt completely unbound by the law, the Carter Page FISA warrant was a matter of utility. It gave them a “legal” window to peek through in order to look at the Trump campaign.

    I think the fact of the matter is that very highly placed members of the Administration earnestly believed that Trump was unwitting stooge of Putin, and they were therefore willing to uncritically accept the claim that Putin had “komprodat” on Trump. The Page warrant was their proverbial “nose under the tent”, after which the were free to roam with the gloss of legitimacy.

    Doing all that without a warrant as you suggest Obama could have done, could have landed everyone in jail — unless Hillary had won.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  57. shipwreckedcrew @43. Could that be among the material and relevant omissions the HPSCI memo says the government failed to provide the FISC on four occasions?

    Due to the sensitive nature of foreign intelligence activity, FISA submissions (including renewals) before the ISC are classified. As such, the public’s confidence in the integrity of the FISA process depends on the court’s ability to hold the government to the highest standard — particularly as it relates to surveillance of American citizens. However, the rigor in protecting the rights of Americans, which is reinforced by 90-day renewals of surveillance orders, is necessarily dependent on the government’s production to the court of all material and relevant facts. This should include information potentially favorable to the target of the FISA application that is known by the government. In the case of Carter Page the government had at least four independent opportunities before the FISC to accurately provide an accounting of the relevant facts. However, our findings indicate that, as described below, material and relevant information was omitted.

    crazy (d99a88)

  58. The biggest question I have is, why hasn’t President Trump used his position and power to declassify and make all parts as transparent as possible so that Americans can “get over their Russian fever,” like Sanders told us he wanted to?

    Dana (f580e5)

  59. And yet the criminal spy Carter Page still walks our streets…

    Colonel Haiku (bfabc4)

  60. The bigger question, is why are you so sure about the converse, has either comey or Mueller proved honorable OT even particularly competent in the past, I’ve noted a few examples. Yes carter page was perhaps not the smartest knife in the drawer, right up there with Tommy v.

    narciso (d1f714)

  61. Because it would be considered a self interested exercise, remember Cheney and the partially declassified

    narciso (d1f714)

  62. The biggest question I have is, why hasn’t President Trump used his position and power to declassify and make all parts as transparent as possible so that Americans can “get over their Russian fever,” like Sanders told us he wanted to?

    Yup. And the question pretty much answers itself, doesn’t it?

    Patterico (115b1f)

  63. The fact that he was not a current campaign advisor has been part of the talking points for the last year.

    I wonder how Andrew C. McCarthy, Victor Davis Hanson, and Catherine Herridge all missed it. And they’re not the only ones, by far.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  64. The biggest question I have is, why hasn’t President Trump used his position and power to declassify and make all parts as transparent as possible so that Americans can “get over their Russian fever,” like Sanders told us he wanted to?

    pouty lil suckboy Chris Wray would quit if he did that

    and poor coward-ass Johnny McCain would piss himself (some more)

    and pedophile Mitt Romney would be so upset he’d need some “me” time with a harem of young boys

    it would be a huge mess

    and maybe right now President Trump just wants to stay focused on doing DACA in exchange for meaningful immigration and border security reforms

    you have to pick your battles

    President Trump understands this better than most

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  65. the lickspittle FBI’s brand’s getting more stinky by the day

    why would Mr. Trump want this to go away

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  66. The FBI was the agency that initiated the Page warrant, right?

    The Obama Administration was already unmasking the identities of Americans involved in foreign calls — daily. How was it a risk to target calls made by Russians with Americans, and unmask the American identities?

    DRJ (15874d)

  67. The Administration didn’t need FISA and applying for a warrant might unravel what they were doing. The FBI needed FISA.

    DRJ (15874d)

  68. They missed it if they are relying on what politicians, journalists, etc., tell them instead of looking at the documents and transcripts. It’s why the GOP and the Trump Administration want to filter the news to us instead of release the documents. They learned that from the media and the Democrats.

    DRJ (15874d)

  69. Dana, I’d suggest there’d be a full-blown mutiny if Trump ordered everything declassified whether there’s anything ugly in there about him and his associates or not. The secrets belong to the people. Trump as the ultimate custodian is duty bound to protect them and ensure they are used wisely. Frustrating as it is, the best way to clear this mess up is through Congress pulling the details out. Eventually enough of the truth will be known to hold the major player(s) accountable without blowing up the national security and law enforcement community.

    Also, Patterico is right that imprecise drafting, whether intentional or not, is not helpful to understanding what happened.

    crazy (d99a88)

  70. I have to agree with shipwreckedcrew #56.

    Why was the FBI in 2016 suddenly interested in two lower order, former volunteers to Trump? And why did they offer this dossier about Trump and his supposed bad behavior in a Moscow hotel room to spy on them? Because they were staffers of Trump’s, either former or presently.

    Do the attorneys here know of any judge who would give any credibility to this dossier? Why would any FISA judge issue a warrant based on this absurd tale, especially when it was offered after the judge denied the first application.

    And yes, it’s sloppy to omit “former” in news stories, but google “former staffer” carter page and you will see that the “former” is used often. We get it.

    Patricia (3363ec)

  71. i love President Trump even more after the Nunes memo release

    he’s exactly the best one for the job

    if I ever doubted that, my doubts are assuaged now that’s for sure

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  72. I always assumed the Obama Administration used unmasking to target communications that might involve terrorists or originated from countries that sponsor or harbor terrorists, but that was wishful thinking on my part. I still hope it is true but that may not be what they were targeting at all (in the year before the last Presidential election). It could have been Russian and Russia-linked communications on their radar.

    DRJ (15874d)

  73. Demagogues and authoritarians do not destroy democracies. It’s established political parties, and the choices they make when faced with demagogues and authoritarians, that decide whether democracies survive.

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/2/2/16929764/how-democracies-die-trump-book-levitsky-ziblatt

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  74. Thank goodness that the recent FISA re-authorization, voted in a couple weeks ago by a majority of Republicans, and signed by Trump himself, contained fixes and remedies to all of this alleged bad behavior.

    Davethulhu (99cc74)

  75. While it can be a little bit out there sometimes, I find that ZeroHedge is often ahead of the game in terms of reporting where things are going next. I think Cong. Comm sources feed info to ZeroHedge, with the belief that the info will be picked up and run with by more mainstream outlets, in the same way that Sara Carter seems to have a pretty good network of sources inside Cong. Comm. staffs.

    ZeroHedge has a story up about the likely nature of State Dept. involvement, and where the Cong. investigation is focusing now. Notwithstanding the fact that I try to read EVERYTHING on this subject I can find, this is new.

    Summary — Steele wrote hundreds of memos over the years for State Dept. use, and provide a ton of work from 2014 to 2016 re the FIFA corruption investigation which had as its focus the awarding of the World Cup tournament to Russia for 2018, and Qatar for 2022.

    A book written by a reporter for The Guardian, Luke Harding, titled “Collusion: Secret meetings, dirty money, and how Russia helped Donald Trump Win” goes into some detail on Steele’s history of working with the State Dept and FBI, and why he was treated as a credible source of reliable information.

    The ZeroHedge story states that in addition to the Trump dossier he gave to Fusion GPS and the FBI, there may be other reports that Steele sent along to his long-established connections in the Kerry State Dept. The book quotes a former Kerry State Dept. envoy as saying “On Russia, Steele was as good as the CIA or anyone else” at getting accurate information.

    Bryon York is reporting that Cong. Investigators are trying to determine if Steele sent reports to the State Dept similar to the reports in his dossier, and whether State Dept. officials were in communication with the FBI or DOJ on the info they were receiving.

    I doubt this is an “arrow in the dark” kind of effort. Something has sent Cong. Investigators in this direction, the same way it was a NSC Staffer who first supplied Nunes with the information on “unmasking” that kicked off his efforts.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  76. 72… most likely part of that hot mic “flexibility” Obama asked Medvedev to pass along to Vlad in 2012

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  77. “This memo totally vindicates “Trump” in probe. But the Russian Witch Hunt goes on and on. Their was no Collusion and there was no Obstruction (the word now used because, after one year of looking endlessly and finding NOTHING, collusion is dead). This is an American disgrace!” – Trump tweet, 2/3/18

    This tweet totally verifies “Trump” dementia. This is an American disgrace! Sad.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  78. Steele wrote hundreds of memos over the years for State Dept. use

    i wonder but that we’ll find out that this wasn’t cowardpig war hero John McCain’s first Fusion GPS rodeo

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  79. Patricia,

    I know The Guardian reported an initial FISA application was denied but I did not realize that had been confirmed. Can you help me find that? Was it in the Nunes’ memo and I missed it?

    DRJ (15874d)

  80. I find that ZeroHedge is often ahead of the game in terms of reporting where things are going next.

    ‘Zero Hedge’s content has been classified as “alt-right”, anti-establishment, conspiratorial, and economically pessimistic, and has been criticized for presenting extreme and sometimes pro-Russian views.’ Comrade.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  81. This is an American disgrace! Sad.

    No it’s triumphant Mr Glass half full.

    We ‘Americans are proud of our bleeding warts so we love our leprosy and celebrate all it’s benefits.

    Positive thinkers.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  82. This is an American disgrace! Sad.


    Having to defend himself, his office, his administration, his family and even his country against fifteen months of constant crying and whining even by his own party is what is sad.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  83. where there’s smoke…

    “Adam Schiff, Dianne Feinstein, Nancy Pelosi, among seemingly dozens of Democrats, not to mention half the mainstream media, had been warning us for days that the release of the memo authored by Republican members of the House Intelligence Committee would place our national security at grave risk. “Sources and methods” would be revealed.

    Now that we have seen the memo, it’s clear that was an absolutely bald-faced lie of the most obvious sort. Nothing in it impacts national security in the slightest. There’s no mention whatsoever of any “sources and methods.”

    Unless they were lobotomized, those Democrats and their dependable PR team (aka the media) must have realized they were blatantly lying to the American public. Evidently, they didn’t care. How’re we now supposed to trust what these people say about anything? Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus.

    Their latest meme is “cherry picking.” The memo was cherry-picked and therefore to be ignored. That’s like saying a murderer who has a clean driving record and is a good cook is not a murderer. Whatever else happened, the FBI clearly used a slanderous fictional document to get a FISA ruling to surveil Carter Page without telling the court the document was a pack of lies paid for by the Clinton campaign and written by a creepy spy with old-line Soviet connections. And they did it multiple times.”

    https://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/democrats-lie-baldly-memo/

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  84. Hoagie defending the indefensible is sadder.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  85. BTW

    Sorry I overestimated your reach and courage.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  86. In 83, Roger L Simon asks why the Democrats lied. He could also ask why Trump lies. The answer is the same: Because their supporters let them get away with it.

    DRJ (15874d)

  87. Uh oh. One of the many reasons I suspect Rosenstein/Wray resisted Congressional access to FISA files on the Trump matter.

    Federal Judge Demands Justice Department Explanation After Nunes Memo Release

    Judge Mehta wants the Justice Department to explain whether it will continue to argue that it cannot confirm or deny the existence of FISA records related to Trump associates …

    The Justice Department previously said it couldn’t confirm or deny the existence of foreign surveillance-related records regarding Donald Trump and his business and campaign associates. According to CNN, the FBI has claimed that such a disclosure would hurt national security and could interfere with the special counsel Mueller’s never ending probe into alleged Russian collusion and the 2016 election.

    crazy (d99a88)

  88. The most incredible part of this psychodrama is the sudden emergence of any critique of surveillance from the 35cents.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  89. I’ve seen allegations that happens, but nothing ever proven that I’m aware of, with the exception of the Bahamas. But hey. If the Trump administration wants to bolster some dumb tweets by Trump by revealing that the NSA stores all our calls, therefore Obama wiretapped Trump, and also Trump is currently wiretapping each and every one of us, let them make that announcement.

    http://nsa.gov1.info/utah-data-center

    The ‘welcome’ sign is quaint: “If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear.”

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  90. Self interested ox-owners fear a hiring, so toward conspiracies they go, exploring.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  91. fear a goring FFS.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  92. 86… all politicians lie, even those in Texas. The Media has no interest in the Dem lies or anything else that puts Democrats in a bad light. Hopefully, that bothers more people than it doesn’t.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  93. why are our most hapless of tatters suddenly shoveling taxpayer monies at the sleazy kaepertwat NFL?

    yeah that’s not stanky

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  94. 83 — what is revealed by this sad fact, was already confirmed many times in the media — that nearly all the Dems never took the time to read the Memo when it was made available in the SCIF at the Capitol.

    More than 200 GOP House members read it, but the last reporting I saw was that only a houseful of Dem members went to read it.

    Rather than read it, then went with the “Talking Points” blasted out in the press, which the press was only too happy to carry for them. As it turns out, nothing in the memo involved risks to national security.

    The FBI’s protest IMO were mostly pro forma as it turns out. As a matter of policy, the FBI isn’t going to ever want public scrutiny of classified information, and all information presented to the FISC is deemed classified. I think the FBI and DOJ viewed the efforts by Congress to make public the information in a FISA application more a “finger in the dike” problem that it was concern about the actual information in this particular Memo — except to the extent that the memo exposed embarrassing facts about how the FBI worked in this particular case, which might undermine FBI credibility in the future with respect to the FISA process.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  95. Can’t find the reference, DRJ, so withdrawn. I guess we will know when the McCabe testimony is released, if ever it is.

    But according to Nunes, it was the pivotal evidence in the FISA application. It just seems absurd to me still that a judge would issue the warrant on Carter Page because a candidate he was formerly aligned with had a lurid, ridiculous sexcapade in Moscow.

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/02/02/full_replay_devin_nunes_explosive_interview_with_bret_baier.html

    Patricia (3363ec)

  96. Yup. And the question pretty much answers itself, doesn’t it?

    That sounds like the “If you don’t have anything to hide, why are you objecting?” canard.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  97. and this is why “conservatives” will always lose if they fall for the traps the deep state lays/lies in wait.

    if the deep state leaks half-truths in order to paint the great orangutan as a Russian panda bear why can’t the opposition do the same right back at the FBI? How is the FBI ALL OF A SUDDEN the most powerful and respected organization in the US government? it makes no sense to get into minutia when the said corrupt deep state lead FBI/”justice” dept is playing Chinese water torture and also not releasing ALL information (ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY HOLD ALL OF THE FISA CARDS).

    The bloodletting has to go both ways. You have to also fight back by inferring the corruption of those who are doing the same to POUTS. I have no problem with this tactic if it causes the release of the FISA warrant.

    Its as if we can’t hold stock in anyone who supports POTUS defending himself unless we have photographs and tape recordings.

    its about time the “loyal opposition” starts punching back with the only legal means they have at their disposal.

    Do people realize we have an Ex-FBI director publically in a PR war with POTUS? Say all you want about Trump and Twitter, but the FBI is not the government nor the leader of the government. Right now I do not like that an ex-government employee all of a sudden has a microphone to fight the head of the US government. He has NOT been deputized to do anything anymore yet here is all the time.

    It’s unheard of and I for one hope he gets charged and goes to court. How does one unelected individual have so much control over everything: elections, candidates and our country’s and other countries’ futures? In all cases he has no legal authority for anything he has done in the last 12 months:

    He had no power to decide Clintons fate or Trumps
    He had no legal right to leak info to his “friend” who in turn leaked to the press
    Which in turn causes the supposed “need” for an independent council

    Comey should he in jail, charged and tried for abuse of power. The deep state has committed to trying to get Trump on the same charge even before he was POTUS as well as after, for situations Trump has the right to question and hire or fire anyone in the executive branch. Yet the media goes along with Comey and the corrupt FBI “leaders” who were judge and jury and decided LONG AGO BEFORE ANY FACTS WERE IN, THAT CLINTON WAS NO GUILTY AND TRUMP IS GUILTY. Yet we know it is the exact opposite.

    Oh and McCain is such a tool. The man has no honor. over the last 15 years, the guy did nothing to solve the problems of this country or the VA, yet now he shows up to defend and protect a corrupt FBI/justice dept leadership. That’s collusion at it’s finest, addition to abuse of power to prevent the duly elected POTUS to take the reins of the execute branch as power the will of the electorate who voted him into office. Its amazing out of all of the senators to be involved with Steel and Fusion GPS this bird brain is the one. The special one to be in bed with the deep state nevertrumpers.

    Where Eagles Dare (30c9de)

  98. A mere three weeks ago, Nunes and Ryan were happy to have Americans surveilled with no evidence whatsoever of wrong-doing.

    https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5a74b4a5e4b01ce33eb2906f

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  99. FBI credibility

    lol

    ship, sailed

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  100. BTW, the problem with government wiretapping has always been the potential for misuse, and political misuse has only been one aspect of that worry. The 4th Amendment has been pretty well trashed by these catch-all warrants “specifying” all papers and communications, past, present and future.

    Maybe we just ought to repeal the damn thing and admit we’re living in a police state.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  101. 1. FBI Used News Articled Sourced By Steele To Corroborate His Dossier.
    2. FBI Knew Steele Was Being Paid By DNC, Hillary Clinton, Chose Not To Tell The Court
    3. Without The Steele Dossier, FBI Wouldn’t Have Sought the Warrant To Spy On Carter Page
    4. FBI Spied On Trump’s Associate For Nearly a Year
    5. FBI Dismissed Steele As a Source Soon After It Secured The Initial FISA Warrant
    6. FBI Did Not Tell The Court It Had Dismissed Steele
    7. DOJ Official’s Wife Was Getting Paid By Fusion GPS

    http://thefederalist.com/2018/02/02/the-7-biggest-bombshells-in-the-house-intel-memo-on-fisa-abuses/

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  102. What tangled webs of lies and deceit these government officials weave.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  103. Democrats were on your side before you were.

    Also under Section 702, the government obtains certain entirely domestic communications that have obscured their location. While it has to purge most of those communications, the NSA can keep any that it shows are evidence of eight enumerated crimes. Again, this is warrantless surveillance of Americans, done in the guise of foreign intelligence collection.

    A mere three weeks ago, Nunes and Ryan were happy to have Americans surveilled with no evidence whatsoever of wrong-doing.
    During the 702 reauthorization debate, reformers like Sens. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) and Rand Paul (R-Ky.), and Reps. Justin Amash (R-Mich.) and Zoe Lofgren (D-Calif.), tried to add protections in these instances, most notably by requiring a warrant before the FBI searches for communications involving Americans. The law authored by Nunes, however, only provides such protection to people for whom the FBI already has probable cause that they are committing a crime. Nunes’ law flips the Fourth Amendment on its head, providing protection only to criminal suspects and not for those against whom the FBI has no evidence of wrongdoing.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  104. If they used the Trump dossier to target Page, then the intent was to target Trump’s incoming administration.

    NJRob (5884de)

  105. So stupid. He was targeted before Trump went airborne viral.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  106. 102.What tangled webs of lies and deceit these government officials weave.

    =Haiku!= Gesundheit!

    Reaganomics.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  107. Rosenstein is like Tupac right now: All Eyez on Me. He may wish he was just a hologram.

    Food tasters. Bodyguards. Cement Ponds. Movie Stars. Rope Belts.

    Pinandpuller (779ed2)

  108. The Walking Dead are the heirs of your systemic failures. Why would you want to help?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  109. Thanks Reverend Irrelevant.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  110. You know, Rod is the last guy I would have expected to drive his Audi at 120 miles an hour into a tree. He was talking about all his plans for the future.

    Pinandpuller (779ed2)

  111. @105. Ben, would you fire Rosey during the Super Bowl or wait until post midterms when the Wave House passes articles of impeachment, leading w/OOJ, (three and a half pages should cover it) and roll thr dice w/t Senate– or resign yourself to fate and protect the brand… these are the decisions that can ‘tweet’ presidents up at night.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  112. Rod was always fascinated with Houdini but I don’t know why he chose a Saturday night to try to fit himself inside a footlocker. It’s puzzling.

    Pinandpuller (779ed2)

  113. PS I also believe that Mueller and Comey could be playing deep cover and are in fact working with POTUS (by POTUS I also mean the justice dept and Sessions) to send Clinton, Obama and the DNC back into the dark ages with an avalanche of eventual charges, trials, & lastly, convictions.

    yeah its a possibility. More so Comey than anyone. it wouldn’t be the first time an agent or agents would have to play the fall guy to entrap the guilty. just saying

    Where Eagles Dare (30c9de)

  114. Just like the Virginia prosecutors just chose to target bob Mcdonnell in 2011, like Brenda Murray chose to target Ted Stevens with a dubious witness, William Allen, john chisholm who will not be held accountable by walker apparently for john Doe.

    narciso (d1f714)

  115. It’s funny how “Game A” sounds like “Gay May”.

    Hey GG Ben, do you like fish sticks?

    Pinandpuller (779ed2)

  116. 111

    So many triangulations, so few conscious receivers.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  117. I prefer legs and thighs because fish don’t have them.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  118. “Nothing is less helpful than someone saying “so you’re saying x” when x is something you didn’t say.

    “Yup. And the question pretty much answers itself, doesn’t it?

    This is the same guy talking. In the first instance about something he didn’t say, and in the second instance about something Trump didn’t do.

    harkin (8256c3)

  119. Nadlers rebuttal..as if needed.

    That Nunes’ memo fails to demonstrate that the government lacked enough evidence beyond a dossier from former British spy Christopher Steele to obtain a FISA warrant on Page.
    That Steele’s expertise on Russia and organized crime would have outweighed any concerns a FISA court would have had about the funding of Steele’s work by partisan actors — funding sources that Steele may not have even known about.
    That Nunes’ memo “provides no credible basis whatsoever” for removing Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, who oversees the investigation led by special counsel Robert Mueller.
    That Nunes’ memo shows that Republicans “are now part and parcel to an organized effort to obstruct” Mueller’s probe.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  120. Bruce and Nellie Ohr Where Are They Now:

    Sid Royce, Sonny Steelgrave’s former accountant & mole, is arrested, turns state’s evidence and is taken into the Witness Relocation Program against McPike’s efforts; however, McPike chooses the particulars, rendering Royce as “Elvis Prim”, a shoe salesman in Bettendorf, Iowa. Prim’s new wife, Priscilla, leaves him and he snaps, seeking & locating McPike as he’s reconciling with his own estranged wife. Prim takes her hostage, demanding that McPike locate Priscilla and return her; instead, McPike snipes Prim, killing him. McPike’s wife, shaken, decides to pursue a divorce.

    Wiseguy

    Pinandpuller (779ed2)

  121. Yeah and fish can’t run or scream for help.

    Pinandpuller (779ed2)

  122. Nice smoke bomb Pin.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  123. I guess that’s what it’s come down to for y’all.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  124. Truckin’ (Because we all know the Great Orange Orangutan is really a deadhead inside that Louis 14th exterior heh heh )

    Truckin’ got my chips cashed in. Keep truckin’, like the do-dah man
    Together, more or less in line, just keep truckin’ on.

    Arrows of neon and flashing marquees out on Main Street.
    Chicago, New York, Detroit and it’s all on the same street.
    Your typical city involved in a typical daydream
    Hang it up and see what tomorrow brings.

    Dallas, got a soft machine; Houston, too close to New Orleans;
    New York’s got the ways and means; but just won’t let you be, oh no.

    Most of the cast that you meet on the streets speak of true love,
    Most of the time they’re sittin’ and cryin’ at home.
    One of these days they know they better get goin’
    Out of the door and down on the streets all alone.

    Truckin’, like the do-dah man. Once told me “You’ve got to play your hand”
    Sometimes your cards ain’t worth a dime, if you don’t lay’em down,

    SOMETIMES THE LIGHT’S ALL SHININ’ ON ME;
    OTHER TIMES I CAN BARELY SEE.
    Lately it occurres to me What a long, strange trip it’s been.

    What in the world ever became of sweet Jane?
    She lost her sparkle, you know she isn’t the same
    Livin’ on reds, vitamin C, and cocaine,
    All a friend can say is “Ain’t it a shame?”

    Truckin’, up to Buffalo. Been thinkin’, you got to mellow slow
    Takes time, you pick a place to go, and just keep truckin’ on.

    Sittin’ and starin’ out of the hotel window.
    Got a tip they’re gonna kick the door in again
    I’d like to get some sleep before I travel,
    But if you got a warrant, I guess you’re gonna come in.

    Busted, down on Bourbon Street, SET UP, LIKE A BOWLIN’ PIN.
    KNOCKED DOWN, IT GET’S DOWN TO WEARIN’ THIN. THEY JUST WON’T LET YOU BE, OH NO.

    You’re sick of hangin’ around and you’d like to travel;
    Get tired of travelin’ and you want to settle down.
    I guess they can’t revoke your soul for tryin’,
    Get out of the door and light out and look all around.

    SOMETIMES THE LIGHT’S ALL SHININ’ ON ME;
    OTHER TIMES I CAN BARELY SEE.
    Lately it occurrs to me What a long, strange trip it’s been.

    Truckin’, I’m a goin’ home. Whoa whoa baby, back where I belong,
    Back home, sit down and patch my bones, and get back truckin’ on.
    Hey now get back truckin’ home.

    :);):);):);):);):);):);):);):);):);):);):);):);):);):);):);):);)

    Where Eagles Dare (30c9de)

  125. Louis teh 14th was a Dickhead, Dickhead!

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  126. Nadler the epitome of a 1970s NYC crime boss bag man.

    Where Eagles Dare (30c9de)

  127. @ Ben burn are you OK? seems like someone got under your skin. so tell me what was the trigger?

    Where Eagles Dare (30c9de)

  128. Your tax dollars at work:

    “In the spirit of openness and transparency, here is a partial list of current and planned future data collection targets:

    •internet searches (ie; here’s a collection of searches by Federal Government workers)
    •websites visited
    •emails sent and received
    •social media activity (Facebook, Twitter, etc)
    •blogging activity including posts read, written, and commented on – View our patent
    •videos watched and/or uploaded online
    •photos viewed and/or uploaded online
    •mobile phone GPS-location data
    •mobile phone apps downloaded
    •phone call records – View our patent
    •text messages sent and received
    •Skype video calls
    •online purchases and auction transactions
    •credit card/ debit card transactions
    •financial information
    •legal documents
    •travel documents
    •health records
    •cable television shows watched and recorded
    •commuter toll records
    •electronic bus and subway passes / Smartpasses
    •facial recognition data from surveillance cameras
    •educational records
    •arrest records
    •driver license information”

    -Source, NSA

    http://nsa.gov1.info/utah-data-center

    “If you want it, here it is Come and get it; Make your mind up fast. If you want it, anytime I can get it; But you better hurry cause it may not last.” – Badfinger, ‘Come And Get It’ 1969

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  129. so tell me what was the trigger?

    Trump: The Septic King.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  130. y’all.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 2/3/2018 @ 1:54 pm

    Cultural Appropriation from a Privileged Cracker.

    Pinandpuller (779ed2)

  131. So I keep asking the question, what is the defense against gratuitous lawfare?

    narciso (d1f714)

  132. 130. Ben burn posted : “so tell me what was the trigger?” “Trump: The Septic King”

    well those are your words and noone elses. . not sure why Louis XIV was mentioned as a “dickhead”, who I feel the need to defend in all of his regal glory:

    3rd most visited tourist attraction, Louis XIV’s Palace of Versailles, in the IIe de France region…

    also it was the troops of the Louis XIV’s descendants who helped the American Revolutionaries defeat the UK and is why you and I live in the great country we now have, warts and all.

    ….one of the French kings that Voltaire admired. And I know all of the “Sun King’s” faults, but many if not most of our own POTUS had/HAVE the same and even worse….

    he who is without sin and all….

    As history states:

    ….Nonetheless, Louis has also received praise. The anti-Bourbon Napoleon described him not only as “a great king”, but also as “the only King of France worthy of the name”. Leibniz, the German Protestant philosopher, commended him as “one of the greatest kings that ever was”. And Lord Acton admired him as “by far the ablest man who was born in modern times on the steps of a throne”. The historian and philosopher Voltaire wrote: “His name can never be pronounced without respect and without summoning the image of an eternally memorable age”.

    ….Voltaire’s history, The Age of Louis XIV, named Louis’ reign as not only one of the four great ages in which reason and culture flourished, but the greatest ever.”

    So I will take history’s opinion of Louis XIV, a king who has been dead for over 400 years yet still influences the world we know in a positive way as well as “The Septic King” 😉

    cheers

    Where Eagles Dare (30c9de)

  133. Thinking is a costly activity for you GGB, you need to start a telethon.

    Pinandpuller (779ed2)

  134. I appreciate your voluminous response eagle but it was wholly unnecessary .

    But if you are suggesting Trump is in any way as admirable as a cultured Monarch without conscience for his subjects and profligate self-indulgence with a few shekels for the poor box…you have overreached.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  135. @129 – I’m speechless. I thought they just had some meta data

    Lenny (5ea732)

  136. What is this? Mitigating?

    You can’t mitigate yet. First you have to find religion. Then you can ask for forgiveness.

    Them’s the rules.
    {I didn’t make them up.}

    papertiger (c8116c)

  137. Video augmentation of the concept. [YouTube]

    papertiger (c8116c)

  138. You can learn a lot from not nice guys GGB. You should ask for directions to that alley Mr DCSCA keeps bringing up and start your learning today!

    Pinandpuller (779ed2)

  139. He’s a nice guy. You’re a nice guy.

    Your filter needs changing

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  140. Isn’t there supposed to be a wall separating Charity and State? It just got 10 feet taller.

    Pinandpuller (779ed2)

  141. Let’s get the ball rolling.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-s-intel-officials-probe-ties-between-trump-adviser-and-kremlin-175046002.html September 23, 2016 {this one is noted as a leak from Steele actual, used as underpinning for the FISA warrant}

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-03-30/trump-russia-adviser-carter-page-interview

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-adviser-russia/trump-adviser-on-moscow-visit-dodges-questions-about-u-s-policy-on-russia-idUSKCN0ZN294

    Jee. Where would people get the idea Carter Page is a Trump Campaign advisor?

    papertiger (c8116c)

  142. Still hung up on Page OR?

    Grow up.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  143. OR is PT.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  144. @136. I’m speechless. I thought they just had some meta data.

    Brave new world; for folks of a certain age, adds a fresh, 21st century perspective to the phrase, “Hoovering things up.”

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  145. Excellent post, Pat. Your distinction/point is granted.

    That being true, DJT is still likely to have spoken the truth when he insisted that his team and Trump Tower had been wiretapped – the transition team. No, that had nothing to do with the FISA warrant at issue here. To me, this is every bit as horrific as the FISA mess.

    The larger concerns still stand, notwithstanding your welcome clarity.

    Ed from SFV (3400a5)

  146. @139 You should ask for directions to that alley Mr DCSCA keeps bringing up and start your learning today!

    It’s in LA, nearby an In&Out by a large and busy aerodrome.

    “When the bad guys try to escape the good guys and dash down a blind alley, they always tip over a few garbage cans in retreat before they surrender to fate or do the big shoot out.”

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  147. @139. Postscript- Oops! Dang it– now the NSA knows where it is, too.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  148. Got a note for Ben here.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  149. Heard one of the talking heads a while back musing that legal eagles splitting hairs and syllables over exactitudes on anything Trump are going to give themselves ulcers and that the best guide to pinning him down on ‘truthiness’ matters are recordings- video/audio/transcripts etc., of past depositions he’s been required to give under oath– and even those can be like chasing quicksilver.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  150. I signed up. Sun Tzu..

    https://www.tpusa.com

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  151. PT:

    I know you said so but do you understand WATCHMEN is an alternate reality…for sure?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  152. Ben, all this law and order stuff must chafe you something fierce.

    You’d probably be more comfortable in one of those sh|][hole countries, where they have room for your type of marauding and depredation.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  153. Lawnordah is what you suggest PT?
    Hard-hat justice for the remaining hordes of anti-democratics?

    I think you’ve located the infection site.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  154. 135. Ben burn posted “I appreciate your voluminous response eagle but it was wholly unnecessary .

    “But if you are suggesting Trump is in any way as admirable as a cultured Monarch without conscience for his subjects and profligate self-indulgence with a few shekels for the poor box…you have overreached.”

    No overreach occurred or was necessary. I think I trust Voltaire more than a triggered opinion.

    Louis XIV rid the country of feudalism and was one of the first rulers to imposed direct taxes on the aristocratic population for the first time in French history.

    Again, Louis has been dead 400 years, and left an incredible positive legacy, not just in culture but in politics, military, and government, and his descendants are one of the reasons our great republic is even in existence.

    As Voltaire also stated “…in which reason and culture flourished”, so not just culture but reason & enlightenment benefited by Louis XIV. so yeah I admire him and so does Trump and a vast amount of other people.

    …and there is no better book then Louis XIV by the French protestant historian, François Bluche, to show this fact. Bluche showed all of Louis failings and warts but also showed Louis positive qualities & successes and that he had more conscience for his subjects & citizens then many of the 20th and 21st century political leaders, including the last 3 or 4 POTUS. One of the last rulers to actually fight on a battlefield that he helped cause. Wish more of our POTUS would do that since they want to go to war so badly with one country or another, and send others sons & daughters to die for their causes.

    cheers

    Where Eagles Dare (30c9de)

  155. Heroes don’t build mega structures for their own legacy eagles. Unless you think Saints need publicity agents in the Vatican.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  156. Still lookin’ for that Sun King, baby queen

    Rock on GGB

    Pinandpuller (779ed2)

  157. Isn’t WATCHMEN your newsletter GGB?

    NTTAWWT

    Pinandpuller (779ed2)

  158. 156 Ben burn posted “Heroes don’t build mega structures for their own legacy eagles. Unless you think Saints need publicity agents in the Vatican.”

    gee Ben burn didn’t think you would go low…whatevs

    Versaille was built for the kingdom & its subjects much like the White House is the people’s house in the USA. but I see you are triggered to even care what the truth is.

    …you do realize even the French Revolutionaries considered it practically “France” itself?

    ….much of the early funding for construction came from the king’s own purse, funded by revenues received from his appanage as well as revenues from the province of New France (Canada), which, while part of France, was a private possession of the king and therefore exempt from the control of the Parliaments.

    In addition, to counter the costs of Versailles during the early years of Louis XIV’s personal reign, Finance Minister Colbert decided that Versailles should be the “showcase” of France.

    Expenditures on Versailles have been recorded in the compendium known as the Comptes des bâtiments du roi sous le règne de Louis XIV and which was edited and published in five volumes by Jules Guiffrey in the 19th century. These volumes provide valuable archival material pursuant to the financial expenditures of all aspects of Versailles from the payments disbursed for many trades as varied as artists and mole catchers.

    Yet the FBI wont redact and release the FISA warrants. Funny isn’t it Ben, how transparent Louis was compared to our current gestapo leaders running the FBI?

    All parts of the building and its decoration had to be from France and created by French craftsmen. Even the mirrors used in the decoration of the Hall of Mirrors were made in France. The Mirrors were so respected by the citizens of France that even the purges of the Revolutionaries left them untouched.

    Again I wish more POTUS had that kind of love for their country and for their people.

    cheers mate

    Where Eagles Dare (30c9de)

  159. Seems like the FBI knew of the dossier, or at least Steele’s fears, before the election, when they were still trying to investigate Page. McCain turned over the dossier again in December, right after the election, when he learned of it (supposedly).

    Maybe McCain was trying to hurt Trump from the get go?

    Patricia (3363ec)

  160. FBI Newsletter

    Watch[Trump]Tower

    Cultlike Behavior

    Suicide Watch

    Pinandpuller (779ed2)

  161. Need a judgement call on this one.

    Lawnordah is what you suggest PT?
    Hard-hat justice for the remaining hordes of anti-democratics?

    I think you’ve located the infection site.

    Ben burn

    Is that authentic American gibberish?

    See, I’m thinking where we can deport him to? If that’s authentic means we can’t get rid of him.

    Have to settle for slapping his teacher.

    Superfluous measure at best.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  162. I guess the historic context needs fleshing out. Shall I do your thinking for y’all as well?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  163. Why is a Student Movement for a Limited Government your enemy GGB?

    Pinandpuller (779ed2)

  164. Representative Devin Nunes has been serving California’s 22nd Congressional District since 2003. The district is historically Republican, but with the April 2018 primary midterm elections only a few months away and Nunes causing controversy first by stepping down from leading the Russia investigation, and now with the public release of the Nunes Memo, Democratic candidates are getting their hopes up. So far, six Democrats have filed to run against Nunes, including Andrew Janz, a prosecutor from the area who believes he has a good chance at winning.
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/heavy.com/news/2018/02/david-nunes-opponent-andrew-janz-bio/amp/

    Heh…

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  165. This is a parody of nsa.gov and has not been approved, endorsed, or authorized by the National Security Agency or by any other U.S. Government agency. Much of this content was derived from news media, privacy groups, and government websites. Links to these sites are posted on the left-sidebars of each page.

    Good one, DCSCA. Fake but sorta true…

    crazy (d99a88)

  166. GGB would turn a Student Movement for Limited Government into The Children’s Crusade…

    You’re a slave, and you’re a slave, and you’re a slave!!!!

    Pinandpuller (779ed2)

  167. You know GGB, when you are operating by yourself with just a Dodge Crossover and some gardening tools you can’t do too much damage but you sound like you want to turn this into an industrial operation and that scares me a little.

    Pinandpuller (779ed2)

  168. Shall I do your thinking for y’all as well?

    Ben burn


    There’s that classic democrat will to power peaking out like a snapping turtle.

    Could be Louisiana.

    Here’s something that sounds kind of releventish.

    EVERY BOGUS 2016 FISA REQUEST to Spy on Trump was Signed by Loretta Lynch
    according to ABC News. {How would they know? Eh. Probably just asked her.}

    papertiger (c8116c)

  169. because being a proud woman of color, she’s allowed (required?) to hate Whitey.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  170. as a strong black woman my message to all of you is that it’s OK (underscore underscore underscore) to love President Trump

    He may be a white male president, but he’s a splendid individual!

    It’s not always about race or gender, you see.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  171. @166. Then you have nothing to hide– or fear.

    Do you. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  172. Have to settle for slapping his teacher.

    Superfluous measure at best.

    papertiger (c8116c) — 2/3/2018 @ 4:16 pm

    You could name your Snooze Alarm for him and slap it every eight minutes.

    Pinandpuller (779ed2)

  173. GGB needs a hobby.

    Picking up hitchhikers at night is more of a lifestyle.

    Pinandpuller (779ed2)

  174. Paper tiger: Try to think outside the box restumblicans inhabit.

    Stop and meditate as to who FBI was concerned with other than Page..and how Executive communications might make surveillance problematic.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  175. The NSA Is Building the Country’s Biggest Spy Center (Watch What You Say)

    https://www.wired.com/2012/03/ff_nsadatacenter/

    “…the blandly named Utah Data Center is being built for the National Security Agency. A project of immense secrecy, it is the final piece in a complex puzzle assembled over the past decade. Its purpose: to intercept, decipher, analyze, and store vast swaths of the world’s communications as they zap down from satellites and zip through the underground and undersea cables of international, foreign, and domestic networks. The heavily fortified $2 billion center should be up and running in September 2013. Flowing through its servers and routers and stored in near-bottomless databases will be all forms of communication, including the complete contents of private emails, cell phone calls, and Google searches, as well as all sorts of personal data trails—parking receipts, travel itineraries, bookstore purchases, and other digital “pocket litter.” It is, in some measure, the realization of the “total information awareness” program created during the first term of the Bush administration—an effort that was killed by Congress in 2003 after it caused an outcry over its potential for invading Americans’ privacy.

    But “this is more than just a data center,” says one senior intelligence official who until recently was involved with the program. The mammoth Bluffdale center will have another important and far more secret role that until now has gone unrevealed. It is also critical, he says, for breaking codes. And code-breaking is crucial, because much of the data that the center will handle—financial information, stock transactions, business deals, foreign military and diplomatic secrets, legal documents, confidential personal communications—will be heavily encrypted. According to another top official also involved with the program, the NSA made an enormous breakthrough several years ago in its ability to cryptanalyze, or break, unfathomably complex encryption systems employed by not only governments around the world but also many average computer users in the US. The upshot, according to this official: “Everybody’s a target; everybody with communication is a target.”

    Author Bamford, BTW, outted the details behind the USAF’s MOL ‘astrospies’ project from the 1960’s by tracing the origins of a rogue spacesuit found in a footlocker in a locked room at the old Mercury Control Center at Cape Canaveral. Made for a great NOVA doc some years back. Most of the astro spy crews attached to the MOL project were reassigned when it was cancelled and flew in the shuttle program- one actually heading the agency– Dick Truly.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  176. one thing i learned recently is that Joe Kennedy has disgusting blowjob lips that disturb all who look upon them

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  177. Executive communications ? You misspeak yourself surely. Unless you meant to point out that the FBI served first and formost the illegal and unethical will to power of Barack the first.

    If that was your intent, well done.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  178. You’re boxed-in son.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  179. @177. The lad’s a milk and cookies man, Mr. Feet.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  180. As for matters of Russian collusion: Fusion GPS was tied to Vladimir Putin’s associates in the Kremlin, who wanted to undermine the Magnitsky Act, a U.S. law that sanctions Russian officials believed to be connected with the murder of anti-Kremlin lawyer Sergei Magnitsky.

    The “journalists” at CNN made much of Donald Trump Jr.’s 20-minute meeting with Russian lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya at Trump Tower in 2016, while ignoring her meeting, before and after that one, with Fusion’s cofounder, former Wall Street Journal reporter Glen Simpson, who was working to overturn the Magnitsky Act.

    Simpson slimed Hermitage Capital’s William Browder, who had helped pass the Magnitsky legislation and authored the important book Red Notice.

    nevertrump’s nothing if not ethically flexible

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  181. Happyfeet – just between you and me – I love black people.

    You’re my mother[edit].

    Consider me Jerry MaGuire.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  182. DCSCA. Long before they built the and long before Hayden became DIRNSA he used to argue that “if you want me to find a needle in the haystack, I need to collect all the haystacks.” Then came 9-11 and now we know where they keep the haystacks.

    crazy (d99a88)

  183. …built the UDC…

    crazy (d99a88)

  184. that’s a great clip Mr. tiger for to inaugurate the month in which we celebrate the heritage of my people!

    Mr. Jr. went on to win an oscar for that role, the first oscar of many others that he might have won had he been more talented.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  185. @183. It’s pretty amazing how after decades of craving and crying ‘invasion of privacy’ our society more or less has passively permitted this to become not only established procedure in modern life, but an acceptable practice for ‘security.’ Guess if you’re a certain ager it doesn’t bug you but somehow, can’t believe the ‘founders’ would have been all that keen on this depth of surveillance. Eyes and ears in the knocking shops and outhouses might have crossed the line for them.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  186. Did Obama tapp Trump’s campaign or not?

    nk (dbc370)

  187. 92. 86… all politicians lie, even those in Texas. The Media has no interest in the Dem lies or anything else that puts Democrats in a bad light. Hopefully, that bothers more people than it doesn’t.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 2/3/2018 @ 12:59 pm

    Oh, let me try.

    … all internet commenters lie, even those who read Instapundit.

    DRJ (15874d)

  188. Patricia,

    Thanks, but I suspect you may well be right. We just don’t know yet.

    DRJ (15874d)

  189. Omarosa, welcome to the party, have a beer.

    Yes that was the potential capability, practical implementation is something else, bamford one recalls was the one whose good friend was Felix block.

    narciso (d1f714)

  190. There is an interstung pbs series about elizabethan spies, the last concerned Robert Cecil intercepting Mary queen of Scots assassination plots re her sister Elizabeth.

    narciso (d1f714)

  191. 187.Did Obama tapp Trump’s campaign or not?

    Let’s just say it’s a safe bet the government tapped communications of the day- including my pizza order from Domino’s– and if you’re looking for a particular store and slice of pepperoni, it’ll take a little time and they’ll have to get back to you.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  192. You know that Cuba Gooding Jr. played Ben Carson in The Ben Carson Story?

    Yeah. Me neither. Not until just now.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  193. I thought you were talking about another current topic of interest re 1924.

    urbanleftbehind (aa10ca)

  194. @191. Yeah, narciso. Watched that episode today. Double agents and coded notes in beer keg bungs no less. Pretty intriguing stuff but then they had a lot of time on their hands.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  195. @188. “… all internet commenters lie…”

    Ain’t that the truth.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  196. DCSCA. You’re right. That’s why rooting out the bad leaders who abuse the awesome power we’ve given them is even more important than rooting out the bad actions of a few.

    crazy (d99a88)

  197. And there was a preceding one about the secret service dwelling on the private clubs that mi 6 operated on, I thing deighton wasnore realistic than both le care and Fleming. Charles Cumming and Jon stock have mode of that flavor.

    narciso (d1f714)

  198. Yes immigration, history does rhyme.

    I pointed out a number if instances when the democrats and their allies, have the democrats have not ‘pulled the trigger’

    narciso (d1f714)

  199. So, taking into account shipwreckedcrew’s description of the scope of FISA warrant surveillance, is it a fair bet that the salacious and unverified dossier was a piggyback to surveil Carter Page which itself was a piggyback to surveil the Trump campaign, and further taking into account such little things as Strzok’s texts with the other Page, Lisa, it was “Trump insurance”?

    nk (dbc370)

  200. How many Pages are in this thing, anyhow?

    nk (dbc370)

  201. This is the month I might post something from a site they should temporarily rename The Daily Baller.

    urbanleftbehind (aa10ca)

  202. “The heavily fortified $2 billion center should be up and running in September 2013. Flowing through its servers and routers and stored in near-bottomless databases will be all forms of communication, including the complete contents of private emails, cell phone calls, and Google searches, as well as all sorts of personal data trails—parking receipts, travel itineraries, bookstore purchases, and other digital “pocket litter.””

    I’ve actually been inside this facility. I hear people talk about it and yet they never mention there is an exact duplicate facility in the eastern U.S……at least that’s what we were told.

    harkin (8256c3)

  203. I want to be a pediatric surgeon like…Ben Carson-The Wire

    Pinandpuller (779ed2)

  204. CNN
    @CNN
    Feb 2
    Former CIA counterterrorism official Phil Mudd: The FBI people “are ticked” and they’ll be saying of Trump, “You’ve been around for 13 months. We’ve been around since 1908. I know how this game is going to be played. We’re going to win”

    —-

    T. Becket Adams
    @BecketAdams
    Protip: If you want to counter Trump, Nunes and the anti-FBI narrative, don’t do it by conceding the agency is exceptionally good at the very things for which it stands accused”

    harkin (8256c3)

  205. How many Pages are in this thing, anyhow?

    nk (dbc370) — 2/3/2018 @ 6:18 pm

    You got your Carter Page…your Lisa Page…your fried Page…your boiled Page…

    Pinandpuller (779ed2)

  206. . The upshot, according to this official: “Everybody’s a target; everybody with communication is a target.”

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 2/3/2018 @ 4:59 pm

    Be a shame if Mitt Romney’s planet plowed into that place.

    Pinandpuller (779ed2)

  207. You’re boxed-in son.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 2/3/2018 @ 5:09 pm

    Why don’t you speak outside the box and tell us why kids who want limited government are your enemies. Or am I being too literal for you?

    Pinandpuller (779ed2)

  208. Did Obama tapp Trump’s campaign or not?

    nk (dbc370) — 2/3/2018 @ 5:25 pm

    Did Trump tap Stormy?

    Pinandpuller (779ed2)

  209. Let’s just say it’s a safe bet the government tapped communications of the day- including my pizza order from Domino’s– and if you’re looking for a particular store and slice of pepperoni, it’ll take a little time and they’ll have to get back to you.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 2/3/2018 @ 5:56 pm

    If you’re a bad tipper I’m not going to feel bad if Rod Rosenstein throws you down some stairs.

    Pinandpuller (779ed2)

  210. No.

    nk (dbc370)

  211. Double agents and coded notes in beer keg bungs no less. Pretty intriguing stuff but then they had a lot of time on their hands.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 2/3/2018 @ 5:59 pm

    Not everyone would agree that there’s enough room around the bung hole.

    Pinandpuller (779ed2)

  212. … Paige Johnson, Page Turner, Page three girls, Paging Doctor Fine…

    papertiger (c8116c)

  213. Another Mormon author has hypothesized that Kolob exists outside the Milky Way Galaxy at a place called the “metagalactic center”, and that this galaxy and other galaxies rotate around it.

    Within mainstream astronomy, the idea of a metagalactic center was once assumed, but has been abandoned because on large scales, the expanding universe has no gravitational center.

    whose turn is it to load the bong

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  214. ….Page creole…..Page kebobs….saute’d Page…

    Lenny (5ea732)

  215. He is suggesting that a dossier prepared by a former member of British intelligence has not only been totally discredited … but that it might have been funded by some combination of Russia, the Democratic Party and, wait for it, the FBI!””Chris Cillizza – CNN – Oct 2017

    I wonder what sort of CW ‘nonsense’ will end up being perfectly true a few months from now.

    harkin (8256c3)

  216. lol that’s classic CNN p00pytwaddle Mr. harkin

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  217. it’s the best snowstorm all year aesthetically i think tonight

    went out walking it’s so pretty and my tracks were already effaced upon my return

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  218. Cilizza is not only journalist, but he is very silly indeed, now this data firm is in the tradition of hughes tool and die, Mormon company of ex CIA and FBI, that Robert matheu helped found

    narciso (d1f714)

  219. Turn teh Page!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  220. Isikoffs piece is mentioned here, obliquely, the description of corporate investigators suggest steele briefed her as well

    https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/09/the-mystery-of-trumps-man-in-moscow-214283

    narciso (d1f714)

  221. Oh, let me try.

    … all internet commenters lie, even those who read Instapundit.

    DRJ (15874d) — 2/3/2018 @ 5:28 pm

    See how easy it is! Even a lawyer can do it… especially those who achingly yearn to be judges.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  222. This wee another nothingberger the Carlos slims dribbles coughed up:
    https://mobile.twitter.com/ThomasWictor/status/959960275800678400

    narciso (d1f714)

  223. Today the GOP is said to be considering authorizing the release of the Demo memo.

    That’s not news, but it plays up the Dem meme which they put out last week that the Intel Comm had voted to release the GOP memo but had voted to not release the Dem memo. That’s what Schiff ran out to tell the press the minute the voting ended.

    But what became apparent when the transcript was released was that the Comm voted to make the Dem memo available to all House members — when it had not been available before because Schiff never offered it up. After the period of time specified in the House Rules, which had been followed with regard to the GOP memo, the Dem memo would be voted on for release. That would start the 5 day period for the President — just as had happened with the GOP memo.

    Members of the GOP are today saying they support release of the Dem memo. So there should be a vote in the Intel committee this week, and that would start the 5 day clock on the WH.

    But I think this is going to lead to a call to declassify and release the underlying FISA application — and I think this has been the GOP endgame all along.

    And I think some very saavy GOP “old hands” have been orchestrating this from behind the scenes, guiding the majority to this method of getting the applications and renewals released.

    IMO, this is an operation which is being run by McConnell and Grassley, leading the “Young Guns” in the House along in a way that lets the real operators remain hidden behind the scenes. This process lets the Trump WH and Trump appointees at DOJ to keep their fingers off the disclosures of the FISA materials, allowing them plausible deniability that they had any role in declassifying intelligence material for political gain.

    The GOP leadership in the Senate has been noticeably mute as this matter has played out on the House side, only making perfunctory comments about nominal involvement by the Senate Intel Committee. Grassley and Graham have lent support, and there is a report that Grassley’s classified memo which he has asked DOJ to approve release of will now be made public next week as DOJ can no longer stand in the way after the revelations in the House Memo. This is why it was important for the House to go first with its more liberal rules for publishing classified material.

    Once the full FISA file is in the open, its going to be open warfare on the Obama Justice Department, and by extension the Mueller investigation.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  224. Jimmy Page! Yes!

    nk (dbc370)

  225. “Obscure inveigle obfuscate”

    Kevin M (752a26)

  226. harkin (8256c3) — 2/3/2018 @ 6:55 pm

    So, what you are saying is “Never attack the police in a police state”?

    Kevin M (752a26)

  227. I should have said Jimmy. Who was it defending LZ on the Stairway lawsuit?

    Me.
    Who was it just spent three days murdering “the rain song”?

    Me again.

    Of all Pages to miss.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  228. Wasn’t there a Minnesota judge named page:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/JoshMeyerDC/status/959596749043261441

    narciso (d1f714)

  229. From “a former New York homicide prosecutor” (emphasis mine):

    This was a case in its investigatory stage, not the finished product. Fusion GPS demonstrates the good sense to turn the Steele material over to the FBI … in essence making a 911 call … because as the Department of Homeland Security likes to remind us, “If you see something, say something.”
    The dossier on the President, whether true or false, could subject him to blackmail by foreign powers. The FBI was correct in telling the President about the threat, even if “salacious and unverified.”
    If there is anything shocking in the Nunes memo, it can be found in its faulty reasoning, writing and sourcing. The American public needs to know the “totality of circumstances” presented to the FISA judge in order to fairly evaluate the conduct of the DOJ and the FBI.

    https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/02/opinions/prosecutor-take-on-nunes-memo-callan-opinion/index.html

    It’s a worthwhile, short piece, I’d encourage you to read it all.
    I may not be an attorney, but I know incompetence when I see it. Nunes is incompetent, and it’s obvious.

    Tillman (a95660)

  230. Yes, and if Romney paid no taxes like Reid alleged he could likewise have been subjected to blackmail by foreign powers. Pull the other one, CNN, it’s got bells on it.

    nk (dbc370)

  231. This was classic dezinformatiya/kompromat put out there and given legs by Democrat government stooges and Democrat media lap dogs.

    nk (dbc370)

  232. Needs more cowbell, ioffe was the one who was alleging untoward things , ahem, at melania, in the new republic, so naturally the Atlantic snapped her up.

    narciso (d1f714)

  233. I do somewhat agree about the dossier being used for blackmail, but it was by Comey.

    nk (dbc370)

  234. When I first saw battlestar galactica in 1978,I didn’t know about the mormon tie and kolob

    narciso (d1f714)

  235. Now when you zee something you identify the tome and place and persons who can corraborate if they are able.

    narciso (d1f714)

  236. This is why the peace process is a joke:

    https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/11822/palestinians-arrests-detention

    narciso (d1f714)

  237. Alan Page was the footballer turned MN SC Justice. Mitchell Page was an OF on the bad late 70s Oakland As.

    urbanleftbehind (aa10ca)

  238. it was a more innocent time then Mr. narciso

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  239. What are they trying to say here:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/OrenKessler/status/959578176400822272

    narciso (d1f714)

  240. Comey and McCabe both signed off on FISA apps knowing the dossier was unverified, didn’t tell the judge that HRC and DNC paid for it, used Yahoo article, which came directly from Steele, as corroborating evidence. No wrongdoing?

    Where Eagles Dare (8f562c)

  241. to get a FISA warrant these days you have to hand-feed flaming hot cheetos to the corpulent FISA judge-slut what’s naked under his/her robes

    that’s pretty much the process Mr. Dare

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  242. PS

    ….If any of the information submitted to the FISA court was knowingly false or if the sources of the information were not fully disclosed, that would constitutes a crime regardless of other evidence submitted with the warrant application. The whole application is tainted.

    Also WHY IS CARTER PAGE STILL WALKING AROUND AND STILL NOT CHARGED if he was such a threat to America?

    what a bunch of malarkey….

    Where Eagles Dare (8f562c)

  243. 247

    …”hand-feed flaming hot cheetos to the corpulent FISA judge-slut “…

    too true, too sad, too scary. I wonder if the FBI asked the FISA judge who they voted for?

    Where Eagles Dare (8f562c)

  244. If transmitted by cable it would be wire fraud, mail fraud by other conveyance, if spoken just regular fraud

    narciso (d1f714)

  245. Can someone please tell me why Utah is know for jello?

    Pinandpuller (779ed2)

  246. Yes, and if Romney paid no taxes like Reid alleged he could likewise have been subjected to blackmail by foreign powers.

    Or Hillary could have been blackmailed about all the bribes paid to the Foundation. Oh, wait. Nobody cares.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  247. The FBI and DOJ lied to a FISA Court Judge after being shot down on their first “Apolitical” Warrant Request.

    It is specifically the FBI that was a willing participant in commiting a fraud upon the FISA court for the purpose of impacting a political outcome to the benefit of a particular Political Candidate and Party: Both During the election process and after a lawful election.

    The members of the FBI and DOJ, current and former, who participated in this attempted coup should be all arrested.

    just saying….

    Where Eagles Dare (8f562c)

  248. OK Quick test:

    The United States Constitution is the supreme law of the United States. The Constitution, originally comprising seven articles, delineates the national frame of government.

    QUESTIONS

    When was it Ratified:
    What Date effective:
    When was it Created:
    Its Current Location:
    Its Purpose:
    Its Father:

    Where Eagles Dare (8f562c)

  249. Seems more like a blackmail attempt by domestic powers.

    I had Bill Maher on for just a sec. His take was that Christopher Steele was just minding his own business and stumbled on Trump/Russian collusion and did his duty by passing it on to the FBI or whatever. That’s the funniest sh*t he’s said in years.

    Pinandpuller (779ed2)

  250. I didn’t know about the mormon tie and kolob

    narciso (d1f714) — 2/3/2018 @ 9:11 pm

    wut

    Pinandpuller (779ed2)

  251. The colonists come from a planet called Mobil, Glen Larson was a practicing mormon, the cylons are sort of like the children of Cain, if you follow.

    narciso (d1f714)

  252. That was your first mistake, switch to another channel.

    narciso (d1f714)

  253. Kobol you see what i mean?

    narciso (d1f714)

  254. Rip john huntsman sr.

    narciso (d1f714)

  255. I hope you aren’t trying to be the last lawyer in IL killed in a duel.

    Pinandpuller (779ed2)

  256. Quick test:

    The United States Constitution is the supreme law of the United States. The Constitution, originally comprising seven articles, delineates the national frame of government.

    ANSWERS

    Ratified: June 21, 1788
    Date effective: March 4, 1789; 228 years ago
    Created: September 17, 1787
    Location: National Archives, Washington, D.C.
    Purpose: To replace the Articles of Confederation (1777)
    Father: James Madison

    Many people brush off fake news as if it doesn’t hurt anybody. When Steele leaked the info in the fake document to yahoo news then the FBI used the yahoo story to obtain a FISA warrant, the 4,5 and possibly other amendments were shattered. Anyone still think fake news is harmless?

    Anyone wonder why the same FBI officials who exonerated HRClinton who had an unsecured server in her house and received some of the highest security rated emails WITHOUT GOVERNMENT ENCRYPTION SOFTWARE was able to not be charged without any crime?

    Anyone wonder why the same FBI officials seem to think Trump should never have been POTUS and after almost a year they have found nothing on Trump but leak negative stories in order to manipulate public opinion against him?

    Is this really what the FBI was intended to become? A political lap dog? The Founders would be rolling over in their graves.

    I didn’t care that much for JEHoover and I definitely dont care for the current cast of clowns leading the FBI. They are not above the Law and do not have any rights to determine who should be POTUS.

    Where Eagles Dare (8f562c)

  257. After the FISA request was rejected, did they go to a different judge for the next one?

    Pinandpuller (779ed2)

  258. That was your first mistake, switch to another channel.

    narciso (d1f714) — 2/3/2018 @ 10:32 pm

    When I was a kid HBO was the only place you could see boobs and nothing has really changed.

    Pinandpuller (779ed2)

  259. There are parallels not in this country of the British secret service going after Harold Wilson and the French one going after Chirac, Ironically choet who masterminded the latter

    narciso (d1f714)

  260. Was also the one who assures us Joe Wilson (The far one) was right about yellow cake.

    narciso (d1f714)

  261. The FBI and DOJ lied to a FISA Court Judge after being shot down on their first “Apolitical” Warrant Request.

    Where Eagles Dare (8f562c) — 2/3/2018 @ 10:21 pm

    Just saw this. Did they return to the same judge or did they want fresh eyes on the problem?

    Pinandpuller (779ed2)

  262. At the risk of writing in the middle of the night when no one is really paying attention, let me bring a bit more understanding to what several media outlets seized upon as being a “vindication” of earlier reporting — i.e., the fact that the end of the Memo confirms that the FBI was already investigating Papadopolous in July 2016, so the Trump Dossier info on Carter Page was not the basis for the start of the Trump-Russia investigation.

    What has been reported is that the FBI “opened” its investigation into Papadopolous in July 2016 after getting information from the Australians that Papadopolous had made drunken comments about the Russians having possession of Hillary Clinton emails, and offering them to the Trump campaign. This was leaked to the press shortly after DOJ and FBI had to provide access to the Intel Comm to the FISA materials involving Carter Page. The investigators knew at that point that the Intel Comm was going to be able to confirm that the Dossier had played a significant role in the Page FISA warrant, and the Dossier was poisonous since its pedigree was now well known. So to save the Trump-Russia meme, and the wall-off the Mueller investigation from the Dossier, the investigators and press put out that the investigation actually had its roots in Papadopolous’ drunken bragging, and not the Steele Dossier.

    The leak to the media was that the FBI had “opened” the Russia investigation based on the info from the Aussies. Naturally the press and talking heads jumped to the the all-too-plausible conclusion that the FBI was “on the case” in the summer of 2016, prior to the Steele dossier falling into their hands.

    But if the reporting is accurate, and the leak was limited to the description of the FBI having “opened” an investigation, then the leaker was playing on the failure of the press and talking heads to understand “Bureau-speak”.

    To “open” an investigation in the FBI has a precise — and limited meaning. Its a ministerial act which happens hundreds of times every day in FBI offices all over the country. Many many FBI “investigations” are “opened and closed” in a single document. All it means when someone in the Bureau says they “opened” an investigation is that it was assigned a file number, and it was noted in the FBI case management tracking system. It does not mean that anything was done.

    In fact, FBI agents as a matter of procedure do not do anything until a case is “opened”. They are acting outside Bureau procedure if they take investigative action on a matter that is not yet “open.” “Opening” a matter requires supervisor approval, and its meant to be a “check” on rogue agents conducting investigations “off the books.” A good way to get demoted or fired is to conduct investigative activity on a matter not yet “open.’

    In fact, when an FBI office is up for inspection, one of the most important things for agents to do on behalf of their office management is to “open and close” matters that have been sitting on the supervisors’ desks. Dozens of pieces of information come into an FBI office on a monthly basis. Every one gets processed in some fashion as a matter of record keeping. These tips can come from other government agencies or from the public. Most get almost no attention, and the supervisor instructs agents in his squad to “Open and Close” the matters. That means one piece of paper is generated to “Open” the matter in the system, and a second piece of paper comes right behind it “Closing” the matter in the system. The “Invesigation” exists as a matter of record keeping, but nothing was ever done.

    So, a leak to the media which says the FBI “opened” its Trump-Russia investigation in July 2016, without further information about what the FBI did after it was “open” is meaningless.

    But we know from reporting around the time that Papadopolous entered his plea that the interview in which he lied to the FBI was in February 2017 — which strongly hints that the FBI wasn’t doing anything on Papadopolous for many months after July 2016, but they jumped on the Steele dossier and used it to get a FISA warrant on Carter Page.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  263. I didn’t know all that stuff about Glen Larson. I guess it makes sense that he ripped off other people’s stories. You don’t mess with Jim Rockford.

    Pinandpuller (779ed2)

  264. And don’t forget Clarence Page and Wanda Page, who played Aunt Esther on Sanford and Son.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  265. The reporting has been that there was an initial FISA application that mentioned Trump by name, and it was rejected. A later FISA application that deleted Trump was approved. My assumption is that the one which was approved is the Page application. But I’ve seen no recent reporting on the one that was supposedly rejected. Was it an earlier version of the Page warrant? Or something else?

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  266. 240.When I first saw battlestar galactica in 1978,I didn’t know about the mormon tie and kolob 258.The colonists come from a planet called Mobil, Glen Larson was a practicing mormon, the cylons are sort of like the children of Cain, if you follow.

    Led by Ben Cartwright, riding the range on the Star Wars bonanza, no less. Alas, Adama no Mormon he; Lorne Greene was Jewish by birth– and Canadian, eh.

    “… they’re not even a real country, anyway.” – ‘Blame Canada’ South Park, 2000

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  267. Sara Carter…come with me if you want to live.

    Pinandpuller (779ed2)

  268. When I was a kid HBO was the only place you could see boobs and nothing has really changed.

    Upgrade!
    Fox News; white noise.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  269. The Mormons cut out Jewish Proxy baptism…so they say.

    Pinandpuller (779ed2)

  270. LaWanda Page, as she pointed out to her fish-eyed fool rep Adam Schiff.

    Pinandpuller (779ed2)

  271. I’ve actually been inside this facility. I hear people talk about it and yet they never mention there is an exact duplicate facility in the eastern U.S……at least that’s what we were told.

    Guess that’s the NSA way of ‘backing up its hard drive.’ My late father’s lament every year at Christmas when shopping for me and my brother: “Always TWO of everything!”

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  272. Satchel Paige.

    Boom!

    Lenny (5ea732)

  273. Gregg Jarrett says he has a second source for Rosenstein threatening to subpoena texts and calls made by the Intel Committee in order to get them to back off the FBI and DOJ.

    Pinandpuller (779ed2)

  274. yes yes rod rosytwat’s a prime grade-A lil DOJ slut isn’t he

    that’s your nevertrump DOJ at work

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  275. I don’t have time to do so right now, but there is a development late today that is worth taking on.

    I was not aware, but it was reported earlier this week, that after the House voted to release the Nunes Memo, more House and Senate members were allowed to review the underlying source documents upon which the GOP memo is based. Specifically, DOJ allowed the Chair and Ranking Minority members of the House Judiciary Committee, as well as the Chair and Ranking members of the Senate Intel and Senate Judiciary Comms to review the documents. The “Gang of 8” — the Speaker, Minority Leader, Senate Pres. and Senate Minority Leader, as well as the Chair and Minority Leader of both the House and Senate Intel Comms have always had access.

    Seven additional members of Congress reviewed the underlying documents last week, including Jerold Nadler, now the House Judiciary Committee Ranking Member.

    Today Nadler put out a 6 page response to the Nunes Memo. This is different that what Adam Schiff has written. Nadler’s memo seems to be careful to only discuss the “admissions” made by the Nunes Memo, and commenting on what the Nunes Memo does not say. He really doesn’t add to the picture in terms of what information might be in the source documents that has been left out of the Nunes Memo, which is supposedly the subject of Schiff’s memo that might be out late next week.

    But Nadler’s memo is not well conceived, and seems to be to have stepped into several “bear traps” that the Nunes Memo has left about.

    When I have more time tomorrow, I’ll go through a few of them.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  276. but carter page wasn’t like a *current* trump advisor when the fat-ass lickspittle fisa judge approved the illegal spying

    so that’s nice

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  277. Carter Page didn’t even get paid like he was working for Habitat for Humanity, right?

    Pinandpuller (779ed2)

  278. he was pro and also bono is my understanding

    he didn’t even get business cards

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  279. You know who else is pro bono?

    paul hewson.

    Pinandpuller (779ed2)

  280. Richard Page of Mr. Mister “Take… these chicken wings…”

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  281. I don’t think it’s asking too much to suggest that we let people make up their minds based on actual facts and not oft-repeated falsehoods.

    Yeah, well, you know, that’s just like, uh, your opinion man.

    Dave (445e97)

  282. Bono can kiss my mamajammin’ ass, only half-way decent song U2 ever did was the one BB King played on. Buncha fire bombin’, baby rapin’, priest humpers

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  283. Big ConDaveski

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  284. Yes, the FISA warrant did target a Trump advisor. Remember, their first application for a warrant was declined (by a court with a track record of approving 99.7% of all applications). By the time they reapplied and received the warrant, he had left his position at the campaign.

    Russ from Winterset (9ee282)

  285. The Scientology expose guy, Paul lne, stsrted out writing for walker Texas ranger:

    narciso (d1f714)

  286. The Hill reports:

    The Democratic prosecutor challenging Rep. Devin Nunes (R) for his California House seat has raised more than $100,000 over the past two days amid the release of Nunes’ controversial memo.

    A campaign spokesperson for Andrew Janz confirmed to the Hill that Janz’s campaign raised $111,506 over Thursday and Friday, and $54,394 on Friday alone.

    “Our dramatic increase in contributions is a direct reflection of Nunes’s actions,” said Janz campaign manager Heather Greven. “[Nunes] has given Andrew’s campaign the best gift we could have received, he put a national target on his back and has made this a top 5 race. He is doing everything possible to make this a winnable race for us.”

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  287. Every penny counts, Rear Admiral Been “Backbencher” Burned… http://theweek.com/speedreads/752743/dnc-reportedly-dead-broke-rnc-nearly-40-million

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  288. If only kernel could get a brain from the Wizard. He might be dangerous.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  289. It’s sad when dumbbells like Trump somehow convince themselves they’re smart. Enablers keep them down on the Farm.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  290. @ Pin: IMHO Gregg Jarrett is a close rival to Hannity for King of the Lickspittles. I wouldn’t believe him if he said the sun rises in the east.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  291. swc @270: i.e., the fact that the end of the Memo confirms that the FBI was already investigating Papadopolous in July 2016, so the Trump Dossier info on Carter Page was not the basis for the start of the Trump-Russia investigation.

    The FBI first had access to the Steele dossier in July 2016, so I don’t know how that conclusion can be drawn.

    random viking (6a54c2)

  292. J.P. Morgan Asset Management’s David Kelly warns that investors should expect greater volatility next year and slower growth in the later part of 2018 as the Federal Reserve raises interest rates. Higher interest rates makes it more expensive to borrow.

    http://fortune.com/2017/12/28/stock-market-predictions-future-2018-crash/

    First Bond yields and money market rates will kill Wall Street then…BOOM!

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  293. Oh and don’t forget Gold/silver.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  294. I’m more peeved, however, that Rangappa is utterly unaware that for over a decade, the libertarian right and the progressive left she demonizes have worked together to try to rein in the most dangerous kinds of surveillance. There’s even a Congressional caucus, the Fourth Amendment Caucus, where Republicans like Ted Poe, Justin Amash, and Tom Massie work with Rangappa’s loathed progressive left on reform. Amash and Rand Paul, among others, even have their name on legislative attempts to reform surveillance, partnering up with progressives like Zoe Lofgren, John Conyers, and Ron Wyden. This has become an institutionalized coalition that someone with the most basic investigative skills ought to be able to discover.

    Since Rangappa has not discovered that coalition, however, it is perhaps unsurprising she has absolutely no clue what the coalition has been doing.

    In criticizing the FISA process, the left has not focused so much on fixing procedural loopholes that officials in the executive branch might exploit to maximize their legal authority. Progressives are not asking courts to raise the probable cause standard, or petitioning Congress to add more reporting requirements for the F.B.I.

    Again, there are easily discoverable bills and even some laws that show the fruits of progressive left and libertarian right efforts to do just these things. In 2008, the Democrats mandated a multi-agency Inspector General on Addington’s attempt to blow up FISA, the Stellar Wind program. Progressive Pat Leahy has repeatedly mandated other Inspector General reports, which forced the disclosure of FBI’s abusive exigent letter program and that FBI flouted legal mandates regarding Section 215 for seven years (among other things). In 2011, Ron Wyden started his thus far unsuccessful attempt to require the government to disclose how many Americans are affected by Section 702. In 2013, progressive left and libertarian right Senators on the Senate Judiciary Committee tried to get the Intelligence Community Inspector General to review how the multiple parts of the government’s surveillance fit together, to no avail.

    https://www.emptywheel.net/2018/02/04/asha-rangappa-demands-progressive-left-drop-bad-faith-beliefs-in-op-ed-riddled-with-errors-demonstrating-fbis-bad-faith/

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  295. So beldar what is the criminal offense page or flynn, are guilty of, money laundering treason fraud kidnapping.
    .

    narciso (c6b0ae)

  296. @300 Beldar

    Usually I’m never up to see it but I take your point lol. I didn’t really get sh*tposting till GGB, now I feel like I have to keep up my end.

    Pinandpuller (38a0b3)

  297. My people suffer for lack of money Nancy Pelosi

    Pinandpuller (38a0b3)

  298. What Congress needs is more IT jobs for Pakistani flight risks.

    Pinandpuller (38a0b3)

  299. 302… Rear Admiral BB cheers one man’s opinion on potential slowing of economy

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  300. Former Minnesota congresswoman Michele Bachmann has asked God if she should run for the U.S. Senate seat left vacant by Al Franken’s resignation, she told televangelist and food bucket salesman Jim Bakker.

    “I’ve had people contact me and urge me to run for that Senate seat, and the only reason I would run is for the ability to take these principles into the United States Senate,” she said on Bakker’s show over the holiday weekend. “The question is, should it be me? Should it be now?”

    Bachmann is hoping God will provide an answer. “So the question is, am I being called to do this now?” she said. “I don’t know.”

    Heh–
    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/01/michele-bachmann-asked-god-about-running-for-frankens-seat.html

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  301. Translation: what’s good for America is bad for feverswamp m00nbat Left.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  302. God must have a sense of humor to tolerate such poor representation.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  303. Do you remember the potential slowing in 2008 Kernel?

    Or was that one of your binge blackouts?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  304. To be fair Mr Beldar it could be Rod Rosensrein has really bad comic timing. We won’t know until we pull all his communications and get him back from rendition.

    Pinandpuller (191d0d)

  305. GGB got see I told you so blue balls provided he wasn’t Left Behind by Hale Bopp

    Pinandpuller (191d0d)

  306. The average lifespan for a Bull market us 57 months.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  307. 315

    Whaaaa..?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  308. The most obvious take-away from the Memo is that politically activated personnel within the FBI and DoJ collaborated before the election to use a bogus presentation relying significantly on a manufactured and unverified dossier, per a plan of the DNC and Clinton campaign to stoke a false press narrative about ongoing criminal investigation of Donald Trump and his campaign. That’s a big and consequential story.

    But it’s been teased so long that the confirmation isn’t terribly surprising. We’ve known that there was rot atop Holder and Lynch DoJ for a long, long time.

    Thus, what’s puzzling me today is mostly the set of questions raised by the post-election renewals in January 2017 by then-Acting AG Dana Boente and April 2017 by Deputy AG Rod Rosenstein.

    We can reasonably presume that at least by July 2017, Rosenstein had decided not to seek another renewal. The Trumpkins howling for Rosenstein’s immediate firing and defenestration ought consider that Rosenstein is the person who’s presumptively responsible for ending the abuse initiated by the Lynch DoJ before the election: give credit where due.

    Dana Boente, by the way, was tapped to become Chris Wray’s general counsel at FBI as of January 23, 2018 (replacing the transferred James Baker).

    Since Boente was the Senate-confirmed DoJ official who signed off on the January 2017 renewal, I very definitely want to know what he knew, and didn’t know, about the provenance of the Steele dossier and the derivative self-referential and deliberately planted Yahoo News story as of January 2017. And then I want to know what he did and didn’t include in the renewal application. If he continued to rely upon it, I want to know that. If he deliberately avoided relying on it in the renewal application, but still didn’t disclose things that he indeed personally knew about its provenance (as is suggested but not quite definitively alleged in the memo), then I want to know that. If he asked the application to again be renewed based entirely on other sources, and after fully disclosing its nasty provenance and inappropriate prior use in the original and first renewal applications, then I want to know that — and I’ll fly to Washington to shake his hand and thank him.

    Ditto all that for the Rosenstein signature on the April 2017 renewal.

    I doubt that the renewals produced anything remotely as consequential as the bogus press reports before the election. In the biggest of pictures, I’m much more concerned about the original application (even though that’s no longer a surprise).

    But those renewals seem to me to raise a much bigger red flag with respect to Rosenstein’s ethics and competency than any of the criticisms I’ve seen hurled at him by either the Trumpkin feces-throwers (the Hannity level lickspittles) or a few more rational and persuasive critics.

    A last point: That Wray and Rosenstein have resisted and foot-dragged in responding to Congressional oversight inquiries and demands does not lead me to infer that either of them is stonewalling for the purpose of covering their own asses. They have a legitimate institutional responsibility — and no, you Trumpkins, I’m not endorsing the Deep State here! — as the current officials entrusted with the administration of the DoJ and FBI to look closely, think hard, and make sure that they’re considering long-term and appropriate intra-governmental interests that ultimately preserve separation of powers and checks & balances. If you’re calling for their heads on a pike, do you want their replacements to hand over toot suite every single internal DoJ or FBI document that Adam Schiff gets a whim to ask for? Congress’ legitimate oversight interests — which the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence is absolutely involved in exercising here, potentially to very useful effect! — aren’t unlimited, and there are very good reasons that the GOP members of that Committee are not (yet!) demanding Rosenstein’s or Wray’s or Boente’s scalps.

    Right now the most rabid Trumpkins are in full Reign of Terror mode, eager to devour friends and allies alike. But in that, they’re just aping their Cult Leader, and that’s the least surprising aspect of any of this.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  309. Wray’s selection of Boente signals to me that Wray is more onboard with the WH and GOP than is generally assumed. Boente took several actions at the beginning of the Trump administration that were supportive of the Administration and pushed back against efforts of the Obama administration holdovers to interfere in the advancement of Trump Admin. priorities.

    I have long suspected that the Wray and Rosenstein “resistance” is more pro forma than anything else, and in defending Mueller’s investigation, Rosenstein is trying to save the less-forward-thinking members of the WH staff from themselves. He understands that firing Mueller would set off a firestorm, and he might also very well understand that Mueller’s investigation is not really building much of a case in terms of either “collusion” or obstruction. Yet, the Mueller investigation might very well be making significant headway on what it was originally charged with, which was looking into the matter of Russian interference in the 2016 election.

    And I expect that the endgame here is for the entire FISA application file to be made public, including the renewals. I think the WH wants that, the GOP in Congress wants that, and DOJ would prefer not to have that happen but realizes it might be the only way to “lance this boil” on DOJ and FBI’s asses. The competing narratives about what the FBI/DOJ did or didn’t do will persist as long as the underlying documents remain classified. I think the endgame here is to force the Dems into a position of joining the request to unseal everything, or to take the public position that they want to hide the underlying documents from public scrutiny.

    The WH cannot lead the way to this endgame, as it will be savaged by the Dems and media for releasing classified information for political purposes. The basis for the release has got to be for the purpose of resolving the competing narratives, and the demand has got to come from Congress.

    The fact that the last renewal expired in the summer of 2017, and Mueller has had all the information generated by the FISA warrant for at least 8 months yet there are no rumors of him looking in Page’s direction at all, suggests to me that the warrant didn’t produce any meaningful information.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  310. Hugh Hewitt interviewed Andy McCarthy yesterday on his Saturday show. Early in the interview, Hewitt read him an email he received from a former federal judge. I’m not saying this is the guy, but a law partner of Hewitt’s is a retired federal district court judge – and district court judges sign wiretap warrants.

    Here’s what the Judge’s Email said:

    Hugh, there is not an officer of the court in the land who in the context of this particular application to the FISA Court would not have identified the source of the information as having been the DNC and the Clinton campaign. If I had granted the application and then subsequently learned that the information was sourced to the DNC and the campaign, I, the judge, would have rescinded the authorization, and issued a show cause order to the government to explain who and why this sourcing was not made known to the court. The fact if it be that, that the government told the court that it was a political source but did not identify who in this particular instance, is highly probative that the government purposefully misled the court.

    By “officer of the court”, he’s referring to the prosecutor who put the application and affidavit before the FISA judge.

    In my 23 years with DOJ, I would guess that I was involved in submitting 80-100 search warrants, and 5-6 T-III warrants, to federal judges for them to review and approve. And I will say with 100% certainty that any prosecutor who ok’d an affidavit which danced around the identity of a source of information knowing that disclosing the identity of the source might give the court hearburn, is flirting with a OSC and contempt citation.

    You never “hide the ball” from the Judge. You put all the information in the affidavit. If the Judge says “no”, then you go back and do more work, then resubmit.

    Where the FISA process gives prosecutors and agents the opportunity to play games is that they are never litigated in a courtroom in the same fashion that a search warrant or T-III warrant gets litigated in the light of day. The FISA warrants remain secret, and there’s little opportunity for the Judge to ever learn that they were not given the full story in the affidavit.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  311. It’s reassuring to read posts by lawyers that seem to be much more concerned about what went on at the FBI and DOJ relative to this matter than the parsing of words.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  312. 320 — I only have a passing familiarity with the Woods procedures because I never handled a FISA warrant. There is good reason for that which I can’t go into here, but I was normally walled off from any National Security matters because of the good reason.

    But, the one point I would make is that the Woods procedures were put in place so that FBI HQ had a hands-on role in review process for FISA warrants that were sought from FBI Division Offices. The process centralized review and approval procedures for applications that came in from all parts of the country, where no one at FBI HQ might be involved in the underlying investigation, and might not have any basis to made a judgment on the accuracy and veracity of the factual allegations made in the application.

    What is different here, IMO, is that the Carter Page FISA application seems to have been processed at the very top of the FBI HQ Counter-Intelligence Division. Sending that application through the Woods procedures would have been akin to sending it “sideways” or “down” the chain for review purposes.

    We know from the text messages in August 2016 that Strzok and Page were discussing the information from the Steele dossier. We also know that in Oct. 2016, McCabe was sitting on the new emails from Wiener’s laptop at the same time the Page FISA application was being processed.

    So folks in the FISA review process, to the extent it was used, were certainly aware that the Page application was being handled way up in the Exec. Suite, and it wasn’t a run-of-the-mill application from some field agent at an office out in the hinterlands.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  313. Rather, the FISA application asked permission to surveil Carter Page, former Trump campaign adviser

    Yes, that’s getting lost.

    In fact, Holman Jenkins of the Wall Street Journal said that might have been on purpose.`

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/memo-at-high-nunes-1517614557

    “Why Carter Page?” is one question that even the Nunes memo doesn’t get to the bottom of. Back in April this column speculated, tongue not entirely in cheek, that the FBI targeted the hapless Mr. Page, who had been well known to the agency for several years, simply to “fob off Obama administration pressure to validate its Trump-Russia talking points.”

    I hereby repeat that speculation. The Steele dossier certainly reads like it was written by somebody who had no idea (unlike the FBI) who Mr. Page was but took at face value the business cards he printed up portraying himself as head of a global energy consulting firm.

    He also writes:

    . But it’s also true these agencies tend to hide behind flag-waving and are quick to accuse critics of a lack of patriotism. They attract plenty of devoted public servants but also their share of self-dramatizers.

    The quality of their intelligence “estimates,” we know from multiple public episodes, is not high. Their performance during and after the 2016 election may not be such an outlier after all. Recall the Iraq WMD episode. Recall the Edward Snowden episode. Recall how an entire U.S. inventory of cyberweapons was allowed to leak into the hands of America’s enemies.

    These agencies have been an overfunded, underdelivering mess for a long time notwithstanding (I say again) the presence of many excellent Americans in their ranks.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  314. Your body can’t absorb your retrograde see I told you so emissions fast enough. You’re looking cyanotic.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  315. The FBI may be political, but not exactly Democrat. They didin’t want to spy oin any campaign – they wanted to go easy on both parties.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  316. Right now, the Democrat Media Operatives, Democrats and #NeverTrumpettes are in full obfuscation mode, eager to discredit and make this all disappear. In that, the first two are carrying on a long tradition of lying to the American people… they piss on the backs of Americans and tell them “it’s raining!”. No surprise there, they’ve done it for decades.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  317. One point getting lost: The FISA court was never told of the original source of Steele’s information – therefore didn’t know it was the Russian Federation.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  318. the fisa court’s a corrupt rubberstampin’ joke

    it’s not like buttlick FISA judge would have denied the application if the sleazy FBI hadn’t lied

    let’s be clear about that

    the FBI slutboys just didn’t want that stuff on the record is all

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  319. oops it’s not like *the* buttlick FISA judge i mean

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  320. seems it wasn’t only the left:

    https://twitter.com/bariweiss/status/958132228399222784

    narciso (d1f714)

  321. 327… “didn’t want to” and yet they did.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  322. Mr. narciso even with the slut-shaming lies about sticky nikki, people what wrote blog posts recommending you buy this yummy book haven’t retracted their recommends!

    i sure wouldn’t want to be seen recommending a book of slut-shaming lies

    but I guess maybe I just hold myself to a higher standard

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  323. Wasn’t Sharyl Attkisson hacked and spied upon?

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  324. narciso, thanks again for posting an interesting link (#323). I’m not at all surprised that a district judge upheld the FOIA objection.

    Look at it from this perspective: If Mueller is pursuing an obstruction of justice investigation against Trump for any sort of obstruction of justice in connection with the Russian foreign intelligence investigation and its spun-off criminal investigations like the one that resulted in the Flynn guilty plea (even though yes, you’re right that wasn’t for a crime relating to any sort of conspiracy or collusion by the Trump campaign with the Russians), then Comey’s memos are directly relevant to such an obstruction of justice investigation.

    If Mueller had ignored the memos, then the Dems would never, ever in a million years accept as legitimate any future decision by Mueller not to accuse Trump of obstruction of justice. And they’d have a point.

    But as long as his investigation is active — and even if he’s already strongly inclined either toward a finding or disinclination to find obstruction of justice — he’s got to insist on keeping confidential all of the evidence he’s looking at. Until the investigation is concluded, he’s got to assert the FOIA investigations exemption even if he ends up exonerating Trump entirely of every hint of obstruction of justice. He’s got to keep confidential for now not only the inculpatory evidence he’s reviewed, but even the irrelevant materials that turn out to have no evidentiary value, if only for the purpose of showing that yes, he did indeed know about and consider them in deciding what not to pursue further.

    Neither Mueller’s assertion of the objection, nor the federal judge’s sustaining it, is a reason for anyone to start making further inferences, either about the contents of the memos or Mueller’s future intentions with respect to them.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  325. Do all these federal judges have to get security clearances? How does that work?

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  326. As I understand it, Pin, they generally don’t: federal judges are permitted to handle classified information as needed for the cases they’re ruling upon because they’ve already undergone FBI investigations more extensive than those for at least some types of security clearance. But others may be in a better position to speak to that than I am.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  327. 337 — that’s a good question. I have never heard of a federal judge undergoing an additional background check in order to preside over a case that involved classified information. There have been more than one such case in the districts I have worked, and I have reason to believe if such an additional background check was required, I would have heard about one being under taken, and I never have.

    So my guess is that absent some basis for the Government to believe that a specific judge should not be allowed to preside over a case involving classified information, then all judges of a particular court are able to be assigned to any such case.

    Even if there was a basis for the government to take such a position, the matter would be taken up by the Presiding Judge of the Circuit Court of Appeal in which the District Court is located, and it would be done confidentially. So it could be the case where there are already in place sealed orders that specific judges are not to be assigned to matters involving classified material, but the public would not be aware of them.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  328. There is this matter of not only knowing the nature of the charges, but of the evidence that underlay it, discovery I think they call it, so many of the accusations that prompted this appointment, are based on nothing but
    Faith in the integrity of comey and/or Mueller,

    narciso (d1f714)

  329. 341 — another example of non-experienced lawyers and non-lawyers not understanding that a warrant application needs current information that supports probable cause. Old information is interesting but not enough.

    So when Gowdy says no warrant without Steele Dossier, and he says McCabe testified no warrant without Steele dossier, anyone who has practiced in that arena understands that the point being made is that the other Page info from 2013-14 was too old, and the Steele Dossier with info alleged to have happen in Aug. 2016, was necessary for the application to be granted.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  330. https://mobile.twitter.com/KimStrassel/status/960264979617214464

    In the comment section, the impact of this desinforma.

    narciso (d1f714)

  331. Then they had new information for the renewal applications, right 342?

    DRJ (15874d)

  332. Based on what, Drj, we dont know.

    narciso (d1f714)

  333. My guess: If by the end of the first 90-day extension they had nothing new, they’d need a pretty good excuse why 90 days wasn’t long enough, and something pretty specific to point to as a reason why that could reasonably be expected to change in the next 90 days. By the second extension, without something new, things would seem to be pretty attenuated without anything new. By the third extension, without anything new a judge is pretty much joining the FBI in thumbing its nose at the whole 90-day limitation period altogether. But that’s only my guess based on logic, the statutory framework, and experience dealing with judges being asked for extensions in very, very different contexts.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  334. As I understand it, Pin, they generally don’t: federal judges are permitted to handle classified information as needed for the cases they’re ruling upon because they’ve already undergone FBI investigations more extensive than those for at least some types of security clearance. But others may be in a better position to speak to that than I am.

    Beldar (fa637a) — 2/4/2018 @ 1:43 pm

    It’s probably just like testing out of a class or being elected president or something like that.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  335. Discovery is like when Columbus got to The Americas but the defense already knew about them.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  336. Sounds like they talked the judge into nothing down and no interest for 90 days.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  337. Something Schiff seems to have corgotten:

    http://streetwiseprofessor.com/?p=10814

    narciso (d1f714)

  338. 344 — you only need PC to initiate the surveillance. After that, its going to be a matter of whether or not the surveillance is producing meaningful information consistent with the representations made to get the warrant — i.e., is it producing information supporting the claim that Page was a Russian agent, and was involved in criminal activity.

    The renewals are every 90 days — different from a T-III wiretap, which must be renewed every 30 days.

    But the FISA warrant is an “intelligence gathering” device, not an evidence gathering device. So whether or not its producing “intelligence” is in large measure an “eye of the beholder” kind of test.

    But as McCarthy points out in his interview with Hugh Hewitt, this is all “black box” stuff — it never gets evaluated in an adversarial proceeding. So there is always the risk that the prosecutors and agents aren’t under the same kind of compulsion to play straight.

    When I ran a T-III wiretap, I had to file 10 day reports with the Court — every 10 days I had to provide summaries of pertinent intercepted calls. On the 30 day mark I had to have a renewal petition ready to go, and in there I had to explain what evidence had been gathered, and why it was necessary to continue the monitoring rather than simply take everyone down with arrest warrants.

    More importantly, I knew that when the case was indicted and the T-III paperwork was unsealed, the defense would be able to go through and pick apart the application, all renewals, and all the 10 day reports. The could — and usually did — attack my summaries as not being fair characterizations of the underlying recorded conversations. So I could not play “fast and loose” with the intercepted calls, because if I did I risked the Court throwing out the entire wire.

    But that kind of adversarial examination doesn’t take place in a counter-intelligence investigation. The reviews are only every 90 days, and the government gets to characterize what intelligence has been gathered and why its worthwhile to continue. They don’t have to fear that an adversary is going to later be able to hold their work up to scrutiny.

    At least they never did before Devin Nunes and Trey Gowdy decided they wanted to look through all the FBI paperwork on the Page FISA warrant.

    I think this is the basis of the FBI and DOJ’s fear — establishing a precedent that the Intel Comm can go inside DOJ/FBI files and start looking around at the way they do business before the FISC. That’s the last thing they want as a general proposition.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  339. 346 — The difference in context is key here, however. These are counter-intelligence agents, whose only job function is to gather intel.

    There is a very distinct cultural difference in the Bureau between agents on the Intel side and agents on the Criminal side. Its more common than not that once an agent begins their career on one side, they never switch to the other. Its more common for agents on the criminal side to switch to the intel side at some point, but agents who start on the intel side almost always stay there for their entire career.

    Intel agents are used to playing in murky water. Their entire career is based on characterizing events and circumstances that are rarely black and white. They live and work in the gray area.

    So when a counter-intel agent has to justify to the FISC the reasons for extending a FISA warrant, its not that difficult because its not like they are trying to establish elements of an offense as defined in a federal statute. Its really just a question of whether, in the view of the intel agent, the information being gathered from the warrant is assisting in the counter-intel investigation.

    How is the Court supposed to be in a position to disagree when all the Court gets are facts and analysis presented by the Gov’t? It would be my guess that 99% of FISA warrants are ended by the Gov’t choosing to not seek renewal, and almost never as a result of the FISC refusing to renew.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  340. Patrick — McCarthy answers a point you have raised a couple of times about his column from last October, where he was confident that for the FBI to have relied upon the Steele dossier, they must have performed some level of verification before making it part of the FISA application. Here’s what he wrote today in a column about Nadler’s memo in response to Nunes’ memo:

    For a very long time, I confidently assured people that attacks on the FISA applications were sure to be futile. It did not matter that Steele had credibility issues, I explained; the critical thing was the credibility of Steele’s informants. The FBI and DOJ, I insisted, would never bring a court information based on factual allegations that the FBI had not corroborated, provided by sources that the FBI had not checked out. I intuited that Steele’s name probably did not even appear in the warrant application. That is because once the underlying sources are verified, the credibility of the person who tipped the investigator off to misconduct is beside the point. As a prosecutor, I took information from terrorists, mobsters, drug lords, scam artists — you name it. There is nothing wrong with taking information from a suspect source as long as the investigator then rolls up his sleeves and corroborates the information. That means establishing the credibility of the witnesses who claim to have seen or heard the sinister activities that are said to be the probable cause justifying the warrant. Alas, it appears that I was wrong. From everything we have heard thus far, the FBI did not corroborate Steele’s informants. Their inflammatory allegations about Trump are acknowledged to be “salacious and unverified.” According to the Nunes memo, FBI corroboration efforts were only in their “infancy” at the time the first warrant was sought, and they never yielded anything but “minimal” verification (which may be a charitable way of putting it).

    That would have been my view as well — six months ago it would have been hard for me to imagine that FBI agents would take 2nd and 3rd hand hearsay contained in a report like those provided by Steele, and include them in any kind of warrant affidavit without first making some effort to corroborate either the specific information, or the fact that the sources who provided the information had a track record of reliability. Like McCarthy, I would have never imagined that the unverified claims in the Steele reports would have been put in a warrant, with reference being made to a Yahoo News article making similar claims as “corroboration” that the claims are likely true.

    Its just so counter to my own experiences with FBI agents.

    The only explanation I can see — and I think McCarthy comes to the same view — is that the particular individual agents involved were so possessed of the idea that Trump’s campaign had been infiltrated, and Trump might be a stooge of Putin, that they couldn’t afford to take the time to do the normal types of verification since the election was only 3 weeks away. So they skipped that step just so they could get the warrant, and start the surveillance.

    And we are now living through the nightmare that has resulted because it was all a fiction – likely orchestrated by Russia, with Putin chuckling every night about it before he goes to sleep.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  341. It could also be the FBI verified some information but not the salacious parts, and the application was based on the verified parts of the dossier.

    DRJ (15874d)

  342. Why do you think that, who were the sources, what are the dates of the transaction, it seems to be a very dubious collection of rumor and innuendo

    narciso (d1f714)

  343. Here’s your answer:

    The warrant allowed surveillance of Page “and anyone in his circle.”

    Which would have included everyone still working for the Trump campaign.

    Aarradin (29ed5b)

  344. I am speculating — not saying that is what happened, but that it could have happened. We don’t know until we see the applications, and that may never happen.

    DRJ (15874d)

  345. Not if judge bosford has anything to say about it, seeing that two Russian svr operatives were unmasked because of page, that podesta and webee actually did the lobbying for russia, how do people miss this:

    narciso (d1f714)

  346. 354 — the Memo quotes FBI Counter-Intelligence Chief Priestap as saying the verification of the Dossier was in its “infancy” when the FISA application was sought.

    And McCabe did testify in public about verification — he was asked directly what parts of the Dossier had been verified by the FBI, and he said that Page had gone to Moscow in July 2016.

    Duh. There was video of him giving a speech at event he attended. It wasn’t a secret.

    I don’t remember there being a follow up question along the lines of “Anything eles?”, but IMO its pretty revealing that when he was asked about what was verified the only thing he offered up was publicly available information.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  347. I don’t remember there being a follow up question along the lines of “Anything eles?”, but IMO its pretty revealing that when he was asked about what was verified the only thing he offered up was publicly available information.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591) — 2/4/2018 @ 7:59 pm

    So about as much effort as Witchita PD takes before they roll up and shoot somebody?

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  348. 360 — well, if they deserve it — what’s to complain about?

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  349. I don’t think the president or the COD player deserved it.

    Pinandpuller (5d4d5e)

  350. It’s completely unimportant whether Page was a current or former Trump campaign adviser. The important thing is that the FBI/DoJ used oppo research to get a FISA surveillance warrant. And they didn’t inform the court of the document’s origin.

    This is the kind of lying the government routinely does to get a FISA warrant. Lying by omission. We had this confirmed in April, when a FISC judge ripped the government a new one for five years of illegal surveillance on US persons.

    https://www.scribd.com/document/349261099/2016-Cert-FISC-Memo-Opin-Order-Apr-2017-4#download

    The real problem is the administrative state, particularly the FBI and politicized intel agencies (CIA, NSA, ODNI) think they’re above the law and can do whatever they want.

    https://twitter.com/CNN/status/959565646999707657

    Former CIA counterterrorism official Phil Mudd: The FBI people “are ticked” and they’ll be saying of Trump, “You’ve been around for 13 months. We’ve been around since 1908. I know how this game is going to be played. We’re going to win”

    They conspired to whitewash Hillary!’s crimes that would have sent anyone else to prison for the rest of their life. You had to have had a security clearance to understand just what a stream of horse dung Comey was spewing when he said things during his congressional testimony such as he didn’t think Hillary! was very sophisticated when it came to the law governing the safeguarding, storage, an transmitting classified information.

    Playing dumb is the first thing people try when they’re caught redhanded violating the Espionage Act. It doesn’t matter how dumb they want you to think they are. Hillary! was briefed and signed an NDA, a legally binding contract with the government agreeing that she was fully aware of the law. Otherwise she never would have been granted access, even if she was Secretary of State. And that’s all that matters in a court of law.

    But they’re in open rebellion against the duly elected President when that President has an “R” after his name. Every single agent at the FBI (or in the intel agencies) who think it’s their job to win fights with the President needs to be fired for insubordination.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  351. Look at it from this perspective: If Mueller is pursuing an obstruction of justice investigation against Trump for any sort of obstruction of justice in connection with the Russian foreign intelligence investigation and its spun-off criminal investigations like the one that resulted in the Flynn guilty plea (even though yes, you’re right that wasn’t for a crime relating to any sort of conspiracy or collusion by the Trump campaign with the Russians), then Comey’s memos are directly relevant to such an obstruction of justice investigation.

    If Mueller had ignored the memos, then the Dems would never, ever in a million years accept as legitimate any future decision by Mueller not to accuse Trump of obstruction of justice. And they’d have a point.

    How could they have a point, Beldar? There simply isn’t a federal statute that applies to what Trump did. Have you heard any discussion of which federal obstruction statute Trump is supposed to have violated? I suggest there’s a reason for that. This isn’t an investigation into any criminal act (an therefore it’s the Independent Counsel that’s illegal as the statute requires reasonable suspicion that a criminal act has been committed). This is purely a political witch hunt conducted by people who still haven’t accepted that Hillary! lost.

    The’d actually have to a have a statute on their side to have a point. Tell me what federal obstruction statute supposedly violated. This one?

    18 U.S. Code § 1510 – Obstruction of criminal investigations

    (a) Whoever willfully endeavors by means of bribery to obstruct, delay, or prevent the communication of information relating to a violation of any criminal statute of the United States by any person to a criminal investigator shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.

    Nope, that’s not it. Rest of the statute refers to officers of financial or insurance companies. Trump isn’t an officer in either of those types of companies.

    There are a host of statutes under 18 Code that define obstruction, and the above is the closest to how you can describe Trump’s request to Comey. Close, only if you think a country mile is close. Because there is no way Trump’s request to Comey meets the element of the crime.

    Then there’s the obmibus statute, the “catch-all” statute, 18 U.S. Code § 1503 – Influencing or injuring officer or juror generally.

    (a) Whoever corruptly, or by threats or force, or by any threatening letter or communication, endeavors to influence, intimidate, or impede any grand or petit juror, or officer in or of any court of the United States, or officer who may be serving at any examination or other proceeding before any United States magistrate judge or other committing magistrate, in the discharge of his duty, or injures any such grand or petit juror in his person or property on account of any verdict or indictment assented to by him, or on account of his being or having been such juror, or injures any such officer, magistrate judge, or other committing magistrate in his person or property on account of the performance of his official duties, or corruptly or by threats or force, or by any threatening letter or communication, influences, obstructs, or impedes, or endeavors to influence, obstruct, or impede, the due administration of justice, shall be punished as provided in subsection (b). If the offense under this section occurs in connection with a trial of a criminal case, and the act in violation of this section involves the threat of physical force or physical force, the maximum term of imprisonment which may be imposed for the offense shall be the higher of that otherwise provided by law or the maximum term that could have been imposed for any offense charged in such case.

    Still doesn’t work.

    There’s absolutely now way Trump can be charged with obstruction because he didn’t violate any law on the books and Comey’s memos won’t change that. How can the Dems have a point?

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  352. Steve57, the actor’s subjective intent is the key, as I and others have explained many times before. If Trump’s subjective in tent was to influence, intimidate, or impede the FBI in connection with the investigation which led to Flynn’s guilty plea, that could indeed be obstruction of justice. Intent is proved circumstantially, and Trump’s lies and contradictions could indeed be given weight by a rational jury as being circumstantial evidence of the required corrupt intent.

    You insisting otherwise, my dear and respected friend, doesn’t make it otherwise. Neither of us has seen everything that’s been seen by the special counsel, but even based on what’s already public, there are legitimate grounds for an investigation. There would have to be a lot more than what’s been publicly revealed for me to conclude that there’s a compelling circumstantial case of the required corrupt intent, but I’m not willing to come to a definitive conclusion, the way you clearly already are, when I don’t know all the available evidence (which you don’t either).

    Beldar (fa637a)

  353. For instance, Steve57, I’m utterly convinced that Trump fired Comey for a very bad reason — Trump wanted him to shortcut the regular rules and deliver a public exoneration of Trump prematurely. I’m convinced Trump acted impulsively and stupidly. And that’s true even though there’s zero doubt that Trump had an absolute right to fire Comey (so long as not done to obstruct justice) and that Comey very much already deserved firing.

    But do I think Trump was trying to protect himself from the consequences of a criminal investigation, that is, from being charged and possibly convicted of a crime based on something he’d earlier said about Flynn or done with the Russians? I’m not convinced of that, and that’s the kind of corruption — not mere pique — which would be required to turn a legitimate personnel decision against someone who deserved to be fired into a crime.

    You’re looking for some safe harbor that doesn’t exist, some bright-line rule that the law does not, in this context (dealing with subjective intentions for ambiguous actions), actually offer.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  354. Beldar, could Trump commit obstruction of justce? Yes, but in this case you’re ignoring an important fact. As President he has the constitutional authority to tell his FBI who to investigate or not to investigate. We have examples of Presidents going back the beginning of our nation, when of course we didn’t have an FBI director but we did have an Attorney General, who did exactly that. That’s not obstruction of justice. How can a President obstruct justice? Had he told Comey to arrive at a specific conclusion, to exonerate Flynn, that would have been obstruction. There are a number of ways Trump could have obstructed justice. He could have told people to lie, he could have destroyed documents.

    But since Trump would have been within his constitutional authority to have simply told Comey to drop the investigation, and he didn’t even do that, he merely expressed a hope that Comey could see his way clear to doing that, there is no possible way that constitutes obstruction. And that goes for any President; it even would have been true if it were Hillary Clinton was in the WH.

    Yes, Beldar, I have made up my mind. I’ve decided that I’m not a fan of making up crimes that don’t exist as a matter of black letter law. And yes I agree Trump acts stupidly and needs to lay off the tweets. But those aren’t crimes. As President he absolutely has the authority as the nation’s chief law enforcement officer to decide when an investigation isn’t worth pursuing. The Attorney General and the FBI director don’t have any independent law enforcement powers. The chief executive delegates those powers to them.

    Another thing I have made up my mind about is that I’m a big fan of the Constitution. And there is no mention of an FBI director or an Attorney General anywhere in that document. The Constitution invests all executive power in the President, including the responsibility to see that the laws are faithfully executed. Which also means a President has the discretion to decide that prosecuting someone in some cases may constitute a miscarriage of justice.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nbH_3c72Ys

    “Did Trump Obstruct Justice? Absolutely Not! Dershowitz!”

    You don’t have to like Trump to make up your mind about these things. I’ve heard almost the exact same thing from Jonathan Turley, and I know for a fact that neither Dershowitz or Turley like Trump and would have much preferred Clinton. I’m not making a partisan political decision here.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  355. This is one of the dumber Patterico posts.

    If a newspaper reports, “the police interviewed a friend of the accused, Mr John Doe” — are YOU gonna complain as Doe’s family member and say “They USED to be friends, but they’re not friends anymore! As of the date of the discovery of the deceased’s murder, John told the accused to stay away and to never talk to him again! ”

    “The police investigated Miss Doe, a romantic liason of the accused” — Nope! Miss Doe is the accused’s FORMER romantic liason! You LIE, newspaper!

    “The FBI investigated a business parter of the accused, Widgets, Inc.” They’re not business partners anymore! The partnership dissolved the day before the interview!

    You’re barking up the proverbial semantical tree, Patrick. What a NeverTrump loon you are.

    School Marm (b10d2d)

  356. Yet that does not stop the world from repeating the error McCarthy makes in the quote above: that the application to surveil Carter Page sought “a warrant authorizing surveillance of a Trump campaign adviser.” I see this repeated all over the Internet, in very prominent places.

    Somebody has to be generating and giving out this spin.

    The reason would be that it makes what the FBI did look worse, because this description can give you the impression they were getting, or going after, politically useful information. That is something that could happen, maybe in another case, but that is not what happened here. (Harry Reid did use the bare fact of an investigation, though, which was backed up by a leak from Christopher Steele to Mother Jones.)

    https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/10/veteran-spy-gave-fbi-info-alleging-russian-operation-cultivate-donald-trump/

    Sunday, Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid upped the ante. He sent Comey a fiery letter saying the FBI chief may have broken the law and pointed to a potentially greater controversy: “In my communications with you and other top officials in the national security community, it has become clear that you possess explosive information about close ties and coordination between Donald Trump, his top advisors, and the Russian government…The public has a right to know this information.”

    A little more common than using the government to spy on someone is getting a warrant and then finding (or bringing to light) some other suspected conduct. That is what happened with Senator Menendez and with CIA Director David Petraeus.

    But that also didn’t happen here.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  357. But Carter Page stepped down as a Trump foreign policy adviser on September 26, </i?

    He probably stepped down because of this news story, dated September 23, 2016:

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-s-intel-officials-probe-ties-between-trump-adviser-and-kremlin-175046002.html

    The activities of Trump adviser Carter Page, who has extensive business interests in Russia, have been discussed with senior members of Congress during recent briefings about suspected efforts by Moscow to influence the presidential election, the sources said. After one of those briefings, Senate minority leader Harry Reid wrote FBI Director James Comey, citing reports of meetings between a Trump adviser (a reference to Page) and “high ranking sanctioned individuals” in Moscow over the summer as evidence of “significant and disturbing ties” between the Trump campaign and the Kremlin that needed to be investigated by the bureau.

    Some of those briefed were “taken aback” when they learned about Page’s contacts in Moscow, viewing them as a possible back channel to the Russians that could undercut U.S. foreign policy, said a congressional source familiar with the briefings but who asked for anonymity due to the sensitivity of the subject.

    The source added that U.S. officials in the briefings indicated that intelligence reports about the adviser’s talks with senior Russian officials close to President Vladimir Putin were being “actively monitored and investigated.”

    A senior U.S. law enforcement official did not dispute that characterization when asked for comment by Yahoo News. “It’s on our radar screen,” said the official about Page’s contacts with Russian officials. “It’s being looked at.”

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  358. Andrew C. McCarthy:

    Alas, it appears that I was wrong. From everything we have heard thus far, the FBI did not corroborate Steele’s informants.

    Worse, they probably found out that some of his information was wrong, and other things were highly improbable, and yet still described him to the FISA judge as a very credible source.

    They just gave the judge what they felt might be true, and didn’t mention anything else.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)


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