Patterico's Pontifications

12/12/2017

Open Thread: Showdown in Alabama

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 11:00 am

Often we say “let the best man win” but it seems like an odd thing to say in a race between a pedophile and a supporter of killing any baby for any reason before it’s born.

I still believe Roy Moore will win despite a Fox News poll released yesterday showing Moore down by ten points. Then again, another poll shows Moore up by nine points. Even a veteran pollster like Nate Silver seems flummoxed by it — although he seems to be leaning towards a Jones win, based on the superiority of the polling methods showing Jones ahead. [UPDATE: As Donald Trump likes to say: WRONG! That’s what I get for skimming Silver’s post too fast this morning. He actually says the opposite: “I still think Moore is favored, although not by much.”]

The polls are trying analyze voter turnout in which some people feel like me (I would never vote for either man), while some other people are extra fired up — whether it’s by Moore’s past behavior and statements, by Jones’s position on abortion, by unthinking tribalism . . . or by dark thoughts of Bernie Bernstein and his pack of Jewish infiltrators from the #FAKENEWSAMAZONPOST.

As an amusing aside, True Populist Steve Bannon was in Alabama stomping all over his own junk as he fought the scourge of Joe Scarborough:

I don’t like Scarborough, but I still gave a solemn standing O in my head for this response:

So what’s gonna happen and what’s the fallout?

As a mere spectator, it feels like a win-win. If Moore wins, it’s (like Trump) endless entertainment where you never know what crazy damn fool thing he’ll say next. We’ll get to enjoy the spectacle of seeing the Democrats hang Moore around the neck of the GOP. There will be endless debates about whether to seat him or subject him to an ethics investigation, all amounting to nothing. Al Franken will try to worm out of his resignation, citing Moore. And we’ll probably get some pretty good votes in, amid the stupid ones:

And if Moore loses? I guess there’s a lesson in there somewhere about the ultra-alpha-male guy who never apologizes for anything, treats women like objects, and promotes bigotry against Muslims and gays.

But that’s if he loses. And let’s face it. He’s gonna win.

[Cross-posted at RedState and The Jury Talks Back.]

654 Responses to “Open Thread: Showdown in Alabama”

  1. Well, at least its over?

    EPWJ (16b6dc)

  2. That poll had a 2+ GOP advantage in a 22+ GOP state, its a pitiful joke but they need something for 30 million expended in this race.

    I would have voted for brooks but he was considered too curmudgeon.

    narciso (d1f714)

  3. Of course the Jones campaign flyer, will be hallmarked forever as how NOT to play a racecard

    EPWJ (16b6dc)

  4. True but morning joke plays Steve gourmet to the Sinatra crowd, he doesn’t waste any time dispaging tea parties like your new friend Sam seeder,

    narciso (d1f714)

  5. Ah Nate pewter. Amusing yrs that very sensitive flair doesn’t three up any flags.

    narciso (d1f714)

  6. @davidaxelrod

    Will Alabamans deliver a message to Moore and the horse he rode in on?

    Tillman (a95660)

  7. Establishment republicans blowing money on another lost election. Think of what these creeps are doing with our tax dollars.

    mg (60b0f7)

  8. there’s gonna be a whole lot of upside having Mr. Moore as the new face of social conservatism that’s for sure

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  9. Brooks was the natural heir to Sessions, black voters may not like Moore policy wise, but they may see him as least-harm over what was there before, so not a lot of urgency. Shelby just shat on himself with his write-in vote, though.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  10. 6, where’s Mongo (Alex Karras) when you need him? That’s what that confab in the barn reminded me of, the last battle in Blazing Saddles.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  11. Meanwhile, via Instapundit:

    “SO I JUST HAD AN INTERESTING EMAIL EXCHANGE WITH THE SPECIAL COUNSEL’S PRESS OFFICE:

    Me:

    I’m hearing from a source that Lisa Page was involved in approving Peter Strzok’s warrant requests to the FISC and possibly elsewhere. Can you confirm or deny if this was the case? And please tell me what her job title and function are in your office. Thanks.

    Them (via spokesman Joshua Stueve):

    Lisa Page, who was an attorney on detail to the Special Counsel’s office, returned to the FBI’s Office of the General Counsel in mid-July.

    Me again:

    Thank you but that doesn’t answer my question. What role did Lisa Page have in the handling of warrant applications, and in particular those involving Peter Strzok?

    Them again:

    I’ll decline to comment further.

    Well, then.

    Page, remember, is the FBI lawyer with whom Strzok was having an extramarital affair and exchanging anti-Trump texts. Perhaps someone with more resources than I will be able to get to the bottom of this.”

    https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/

    The ol Deep State Two-Step!

    harkin (0d876d)

  12. there’s gonna be a whole lot of upside having Mr. Moore as the new face of social conservatism that’s for sure

    Maybe ayou lika the face ofa the oppositiona better?

    nk (dbc370)

  13. Sessions first prosecuted the klan in the 80s when it was unfashionable and dangerous.
    Fir that a African american scam artist defamed him to the committee staffed by John
    podesta, derailing his judgeship.

    narciso (d1f714)

  14. poor Marilyn he used to date one of those screechy #metoo chicks

    her name is Rose

    but she hasn’t done any #metoo on him yet

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  15. Other than Jawbreaker, where I probably dug the Noxema Hit and Run girl and a pre-fame Judy Greer a lot more, I could kind of do without her.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  16. Denizens of Chicago might know of Rez Band

    But when you lose, you win
    That’s the way it is
    That’s when the love comes down
    That’s when the love comes down

    When the Love Comes Down

    Pinndpuller (16b0b5)

  17. The Super minority 1/3 versus the 2/3 Supermajority.

    More than six-in-10 voters (61 percent) — including a plurality of Republicans — think the Senate should expel the embattled Moore, who has been accused of pursuing and molesting teenage girls while in his 30s. That includes 77 percent of Democrats, 59 percent of independents and 45 percent of Republicans.

    https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/12/poll-roy-moore-kick-out-of-senate-291929

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  18. @davidaxelrod

    Will Alabamans deliver a message to Moore and the horse he rode in on?
    Tillman (a95660) — 12/12/2017 @ 11:34 am

    He knows more about Arabian bloodlines.

    Pinndpuller (16b0b5)

  19. Lock Frum and Lucy Winbioch in a room. Oh wait, that’s more progressive than partisan Dem.

    urbanleftbehind (9240ed)

  20. There will be endless debates about whether to seat him or subject him to an ethics investigation, all amounting to nothing.

    That one’s clear. Supreme Court precedent says they seat him and – then they can expel him if they want by a 2/3 vote and Senator Mitch McConnell has said there will an ethics investigation.

    Whether it will amount to nothing or not, I don’t know. It’ll probably drag on like the investigation of Donald Trump’s campaign and the Russians, and the Democrats will attack the very idea of doubting any one of them, and may object to cross examining or questioning the accusers too much, and drag it out some more. They’ll actually have to assess their own credibility. But I think they will try to drag things out by objecting to subpoenas. They will also say the Republicans are trying not to set a precedent for Trump to be forced out of office.

    Of course Moore won’t be any kind of a reliable Republican vote for McConnell or even Trump but he’ll probably not be an obstacle to the appointment of most judges.

    If McConnell makes any deal with Roy Moore on any kind of legislation, even the kind of deal he could easily make with any other Senator, the Democrats will try to say McConnell is morally compromised.

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73)

  21. Moore arrives to vote on horseback.

    https://goo.gl/images/RMHx49

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  22. No girls ever died in Roy Moore’s car.

    ropelight (67237e)

  23. A few year ago, you might have heard of a kerfluffle down Miami way, regarding the p
    olice chief and thud mayor. He was accused to disobeying orders allowing a permissive envuronmrnt for civilian shootings etc after one of these set piece hearings out of major crimes, where the swing commissioner debated, he was forced out.

    Now the backstory was he was one of the most experienced and conscientious the dept ever produced, he was selected because he opposed the old guard and was considered a symbol of the mayor. Who had vowed to reverse the laissez affair of the previous administration. He followed the mayors directive but then the political winds changed (sound familiar) and the mayor threw him under the bus. Now the whip against many urban departments was that disreputable thalosian tom Perez, (where is he now) head of holders civil rights zampolit.

    narciso (d1f714)

  24. Whatabout Chappiquiddick?

    but Gorsuch

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  25. Voter suppression warning?

    http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2017/12/judge_orders_alabama_not_to_de.html

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  26. It turns out it was Tim miller (Medici factotum) wok was feeding the likes of both
    reinhard and mccrumin as much chum as possible.

    The above scenario is how I see the trump/flynn matter.

    narciso (d1f714)

  27. Cannon went to Virginia tech, the navy than Harvard business What is politico Allen
    Blathering on about.

    narciso (d1f714)

  28. I just watched a youtube video of a girl shooting a pistol sans ear and eye protection and hot brass went straight down her braless cleavage. That turned out to be the best case scenario of “how this video ends”. I hope she doesn’t keep bees or vote.

    Pinndpuller (16b0b5)

  29. Stephen Miller gets on the horn the minute he sees Moore upstaging Trump.

    https://goo.gl/images/8xPccL

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  30. My kids went to school with our DVM’s kids. He often brought a kid to school a horseback. He also lived in an area called Squaw Creek so you kind of expect that sort of thing.

    Did Doug Jones arrive in a Planned Parenthood livery Ferrari?

    Pinndpuller (16b0b5)

  31. Trump attempting to be humble upon Moore’s victory.

    https://goo.gl/images/5zU1k6

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  32. Emboldened, Trump brings Bannon back creating a new cabinet position High Muckety-muck Uber Alles

    https://youtu.be/N1KvgtEnABY

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  33. AYFKM?

    The court will hold a hearing on Dec. 21 about whether to dismiss the case outright. By that point the state will have had ample time to destroy the digital ballot images legally under the stay.

    http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2017/12/in_final-hour_order_court_rule.html

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  34. What evidence do you have to call Mr. Moore a pedophile?

    Or do you just enjoy jumping on the leftist Goebbels train?

    NJRob (ebcf9d)

  35. The song/poem “She wore a yellow ribbon” has appeared in various forms for at least four centuries. It is based upon the same general theme: A woman of destiny is under some sort of test or trial as she waits for her beloved to return. Will she be true to him? This seems to be the lingering question and the basis for a great unfolding drama.

    The song appears to have been brought to America from Europe by English settlers. The origin of the yellow ribbons seems likely to have come from out of the Puritan heritage. It was during the English Civil War that the Puritan Army of English Parliament wore yellow ribbons and yellow sashes onto the battlefield.

    Third Verse

    Behind the door her daddy kept a shotgun
    He kept it in the springtime
    In the merry month of May
    And if you ask him why the heck he kept it
    He kept it for her soldier who was far far away

    Far away, far away
    He kept it for her soldier
    Who was far, far away

    Pinndpuller (16b0b5)

  36. Try to see the humor Nut job. You’ll have longer to live and be bitter better.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  37. Are there any rest stops or gas stations between here and your humor ABBB?

    Pinndpuller (16b0b5)

  38. What evidence do you have to call Mr. Moore a pedophile?

    there are no evidence

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  39. I thought shirley he has a sense of humor. Unfortunately, being able to laugh at oneself is essential right after self-awareness

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  40. I can see you got your eye on this old cowboy
    And I can tell you’ve never had one for your own
    Or you’ve never been around one
    Now you’re thinkin’ that you’ve found one
    Well it might be kinda fun to take him home
    You giggle every time that I say yes ma’am
    And I get this feelin’ if I held you tight
    You’d be seein’ his and hers
    Buckles boots and spurs
    But that’s a feelin’ you’ll get over overnight
    ‘Cause what’cha gonna do with a cowboy
    When that old rooster crows at dawn
    When he’s lyin’ there instead of getttin’ out of bed
    And puttin’ on his boots and gettin’ gone
    What you gonna do when he says honey
    I’ve got half a mind to stay
    What’cha gonna do with a cowboy
    When he don’t saddle up and ride away

    Chris Ledoux with Garth Brooks

    Pinndpuller (16b0b5)

  41. @25. In a black hat.

    Good guys wear white– even lighting crosses.

    “We all will stay serene and calm; when Alabama gets the bomb…” – Tom Lehrer

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  42. You should have seen the looks on the faces of my dad and mom
    When I showed up at the door with my date for the senior prom
    They said, “Well, pardon us, son, she ain’t no kid!
    That’s a cocktail waitress in a Dolly Pardon wig!”
    I said, “I know it, Dad. Ain’t she cool! That’s the kind I dig!”
    Yeah, and I like my women just a little on the trashy side.
    When they wear their clothes too tight and their hair is dyed.
    Too much lipstick and, ah, too much rouge
    Gets me excited, leaves me feeling confused
    And I like my women just a little on the trashy side.

    Trashy Women

    Pinndpuller (16b0b5)

  43. I don’t like Moore for a number of reasons. Were any of the girls prepubescent?

    AZ Bob (f60c80)

  44. duggar-style you mean?

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  45. 🏟⚾️

    urbanleftbehind (9240ed)

  46. A political rally in a barn with conservative republicans

    or

    A Bomb planning in a mosque with democrats

    mg (60b0f7)

  47. duggar-style you mean?
    happyfeet (28a91b) — 12/12/2017 @ 2:40 pm

    Grope ’em Duggar-Style!

    Pinndpuller (16b0b5)

  48. Those precious babies..

    5 And there is the 16th Street Baptist Church here in Birmingham, which has been a gathering place for African-Americans since it was finished in 1911. Paul Robeson sang there. W.E.B. DuBois and Mary McLeod Bethune spoke there. And, at 10:22 a.m. on September 15, 1963, a Sunday morning, a group of four white supremacist terrorists planted 15 sticks of dynamite in the church and blew it up, killing four little girls and injuring at least 20 other parishioners, and converted the 16th Street Baptist Church into one of those places that all Americans of a certain age know about instinctively, and one of those places that many Americans talk about with a familiar flinch in their memory.

    http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a14409208/alabama-racism/

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  49. @49

    White King Check Mate?

    Pinndpuller (16b0b5)

  50. If it’s an upset will we see the Bammy version of the Tony Peraica mob?

    urbanleftbehind (9240ed)

  51. Guilty as sin

    Free as a bird now

    Pinndpuller (16b0b5)

  52. Its a logical response to AZ Bob. It’s a stadium and a baseball.

    urbanleftbehind (9240ed)

  53. If it’s an upset will we see the Bammy version of the Tony Peraica mob?
    urbanleftbehind (9240ed) — 12/12/2017 @ 2:58 pm

    What that might have been

    A Disturbance in the Kitchen

    Pinndpuller (16b0b5)

  54. Its a logical response to AZ Bob. It’s a stadium and a baseball.
    urbanleftbehind (9240ed) — 12/12/2017 @ 3:00 pm

    The way it loaded on my computer the red of the stands was blank and only the red of the ball’s stitches showed up. The stadium is actually smashed down and the pennants form a cross shape which resembled a chess king.

    Pinndpuller (16b0b5)

  55. This is some of her handiwork,

    https://www.law.com/nationallawjournal/almID/1202614023535/

    This is the firm that subsequently contracted the Israeli firm black cube,

    narciso (d1f714)

  56. It’s a shame that we can’t tone down the rhetoric. Demonizing the other party is how we’ve gotten here and no one is really enjoying this brooding political climate.

    Lindsey Vonn: “People are hoping I break my neck” after comment about visiting Trump’s White House
    http://www.denverpost.com/2017/12/12/lindsey-vonn-trump-white-house-comments/

    Tillman (a95660)

  57. I know what you mean now lol

    Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra

    Pinndpuller (16b0b5)

  58. When the walls fell, so fusion created the alpha bank squirrel the one about epstein as well as the dossier proper.

    narciso (d1f714)

  59. Little Lindsey Boo Boo

    Skiing through the Forest

    Riding over field mice and

    Cutting off their heads

    Pinndpuller (16b0b5)

  60. Alabama’s 67 County Sheriffs are elected in partisan races, and Democrats until 2016 retained the majority of those posts. The current split as of April 2017 is 32 Democrats, 34 Republicans, and 1 Independent (Fayette).

    That matches the sample weight in the Fox poll.

    Here’s the thing though. In the next sentence at wikipedia it says the Democrat Sheriffs are mostly from less populated rural counties; the Republican Sheriffs from high population urban counties.

    Will there be wagering?

    Pat still owes me a million after the Trump election.

    How about double or nothing on Moore?

    papertiger (c8116c)

  61. Trump groped me in front of Ray Charles

    Pinndpuller (16b0b5)

  62. American skiing star Lindsey Vonn has withdrawn from her Sunday events at the World Cup in Switzerland after suffering a back injury during a super-G race on Saturday.

    The injury occurred two days after she criticized President Donald Trump in an interview about the upcoming Winter Olympics in South Korea.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ9DPqjnutY

    You don’t want to put that kind of energy out in the universe, Lindsey.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  63. She was so shocked she tried to run down Ray for a picture.

    Pinndpuller (16b0b5)

  64. Did you hear what Sonny Bono said about Trump?

    Pinndpuller (16b0b5)

  65. kind of energy

    He’s a legend in his own orange rind.

    I’m glad Karma is a bitch so I don’t have to be.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  66. Check with Ed Lee on that negative energy thing.

    urbanleftbehind (9240ed)

  67. Is Hill gonna lend him some Depends?

    urbanleftbehind (9240ed)

  68. I dunno what happened to link on Judge Roy Bean Moore’s riding into town to vote

    https://youtu.be/snTaSJk0n_Y

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  69. Btw

    Impatient folks go to 1:40

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  70. What did Churchill say?

    You don’t negotiate with the tiger that has your head in his mouth

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  71. Both political parties are dinosaurs, arguing the same tired points again and again. But there is nothing yet to replace them. Trumpism? No, thank you.

    So, we will have more of these awfulfests between a “1” and a “2” until someone comes along to put them both out of their misery. Hopefully someone both competent and sane this time.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  72. We’ll have a chance if 37% pull their heads topside and stop enabling the fool.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  73. Fox News: “This is not a referendum on Donald Trump.”

    “Damage Control, report!” Capt. Crane [David Hedison] any episode, ‘Voyage To The Bottom Of The Sea’ ABC TV, 1964-68

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  74. On the side of a Nashville MTA bus:

    A black Tennessee Titan kneeling with a sword in one hand and a lite beer by his foot.

    Pinandpuller (630c09)

  75. Please God I hope it’s not part of the Dilly Dilly campaign

    urbanleftbehind (9240ed)

  76. Is scarborough the one who murdered his secretary?

    mg (60b0f7)

  77. We’ll have a chance if 37% pull their heads topside and stop enabling the fool.
    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab) — 12/12/2017 @ 4:38 pm

    You mean Jim Acosta and his unindicted co-conspirators at CNN, MSNBC et al?

    It’s like they are sitting on the fenders of an old jeep pouring gas in the intake manifold wondering why the damn thing keeps running.

    Pinndpuller (16b0b5)

  78. Is scarborough the one who murdered his secretary?
    mg (60b0f7) — 12/12/2017 @ 5:07 pm

    Sage, Rosemary or Thyme?

    Pinndpuller (16b0b5)

  79. This is CNN:

    78% of the 28% support 14% of 67% with 42% of some 65% agree with 56% of the other 44% too.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  80. I dunno what happened to link on Judge Roy Bean Moore’s riding into town to vote

    https://youtu.be/snTaSJk0n_Y
    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab) — 12/12/2017 @ 4:15 pm

    Did anyone throw their EBT cards down in front of him or is that only on Alm Sunday?

    Pinndpuller (16b0b5)

  81. @87. PP, he’s gonna Mika killing, again.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  82. @87. PP, he’s gonna Mika killing, again.
    DCSCA (797bc0) — 12/12/2017 @ 5:16 pm

    Don’t go on a cruise, Mika!

    Pinndpuller (16b0b5)

  83. Well she died under mysterious circumstances in an odd condition, the medical examiner who certified it WA suicide was subsequently indicted for fraud, awkward.

    narciso (d1f714)

  84. Filed under Life Is a Cabaret

    Village Girls Thank God I’m a Country Girl

    NSFW in a Mild Episode of Westworld sort of Way

    Pinndpuller (16b0b5)

  85. Evan Rachel wood was good in that show, but then of course she turned into a homicidal but,

    narciso (d1f714)

  86. Here’s the NYTimes real-time prediction dial thingy (it was the first to show that Trump was headed for victory 13 months ago).

    The prediction takes into account where the reported votes are, the margins in those areas, and the expected margins in areas have not yet reported.

    Dave (ce8574)

  87. A Moore win, despite his obvious “issues”, will make a large chunk of the MFM bat poop crazy 24/7. And in 2 years Mo Brooks can take the seat good and proper after Moore causes liberal exploding heads.

    Bugg (08921e)

  88. Jones had an early lead with only about 1% of polls reporting. But now with about 17% reporting Roy Moore is up about slightly, about 2%.

    ropelight (67237e)

  89. They are already at bellocq, skull melting stage, what’s next. With 25 seated to defend you would think they would be sparing with their funds

    narciso (d1f714)

  90. Moore has no obvious issues except maybe that he should have resigned voluntarily when ordered to obey the pederastic U.S. Supreme Court’s pederastic ruling. This crap with the honey boo boos is all made up.

    The provable fact is that he has been married to one woman for 32 years — that’s 32 freaking years! — and has been faithful to her the whole dam’ time. That he has no extramarital affairs. That he has no children out of wedlock. That he reveres the Ten Commandments. And that he disapproves of homosexual relationships. And those are things which make him anathema to the National Socialist Democratic Libertine Party.

    nk (dbc370)

  91. The Big Crybabies Anyway!

    “Democrats’ #Resistance is creating a genuine constitutional crisis… It reflects a subject I, and others, have been focusing on since election night — the refusal of Democrats and #NeverTrump Republicans to accept the outcome of the election not just emotionally, but as to the transfer of power that continues to this day, over a year since the 2016 election.”

    —- Professor Jacobson

    https://legalinsurrection.com/2017/12/democrats-resistance-is-creating-a-genuine-constitutional-crisis/

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  92. “Sexual harassment” in a country with an out-of-wedlock birth rate of 40%. It is to laugh.

    nk (dbc370)

  93. 35% of polls reporting. Moore up by 6%.

    ropelight (67237e)

  94. Patterico, I think that’s a misreading of the Silver post you linked to, which says:

    > I still think Moore is favored, although not by much;

    Basically, he thinks that traditional pollsters are right on some important questions about how to conduct polls, AND thinks that there’s an issue with shy Moore voters.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  95. As the sun sets in California, ABBB begins its maintenance and power down cycle…

    Many miles away, something crawls to the surface, of a Scottish loch…

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  96. what happened to that jackoff marine what was gonna be the write-in savior

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  97. Lee Busby lol

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  98. 62% of polls reporting: Moore up by 7+%

    ropelight (67237e)

  99. Allen who clearly that hagiography if red queen laid waste by the emails, is just making stuff up.

    narciso (330e0d)

  100. The provable fact is that he has been married to one woman for 32 years — that’s 32 freaking years! — and has been faithful to her the whole dam’ time. That he has no extramarital affairs. That he has no children out of wedlock. That he reveres the Ten Commandments. And that he disapproves of homosexual relationships. And those are things which make him anathema to the National Socialist Democratic Libertine Party.

    nk (dbc370) — 12/12/2017 @ 6:07 pm

    That’s why I believe him.

    NJRob (67b40d)

  101. Projection at Jones +2.2, it has gone down but still favoring him.

    If the model is right, a heavy majority of the remaining areas are Democratic:

    About 693,000 votes have been counted already. Mr. Moore leads in that count by 7.9 points.

    We think about 502,000 votes remain to be counted. We think Mr. Jones leads in that vote by about 16.1 points.

    Dave (ce8574)

  102. [UPDATE: As Donald Trump likes to say: WRONG! That’s what I get for skimming Silver’s post too fast this morning. He actually says the opposite: “I still think Moore is favored, although not by much.”]

    Patterico (115b1f)

  103. Thanks, aphrael. I’m . . . not sure how I missed that.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  104. I was concerned he’d have to be downgraded to bauxite.

    narciso (330e0d)

  105. My kids went to school with our DVM’s kids. He often brought a kid to school a horseback. He also lived in an area called Squaw Creek so you kind of expect that sort of thing.

    Did Doug Jones arrive in a Planned Parenthood livery Ferrari?

    Pinndpuller (16b0b5) — 12/12/2017 @ 12:46 pm

    No, the Alabama chapter of PP is kinda small and doesn’t make that much money chopping up babies and parting them out like they can in New York or Kali.

    So they could only give Jones a ride to the polls in a Maserati.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  106. Tightening all bit, it’s the old Harold Washington (erstwhile black mayor of chicago berween the 2 Daleys) trick….count from the then white ethnic NW and SW sides first and then let the South and West sides tricklein.

    urbanleftbehind (9240ed)

  107. It has to be a Lamborghini, it’s what teh baby parts salespeeps dream of owning. Get it right!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  108. 77% of polls reporting: Moore up by 3%

    ropelight (67237e)

  109. After nearly 42 million spent against him top men and dems, just a,waste of money.

    narciso (330e0d)

  110. Patterico: I read the SF city charter provisions for vacancies a dozen times this morning and each and every time misread “next election occurring not less than 120 days after the occurrence of the vacancy” as meaning “next election occurring less than 120 days after the occurrence of the vacancy.”

    Misreadings are a part of life. :)

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  111. Let’s say the devil tempted you and succeeded, Narciso…and you got to push Dominican Lenin aside and run the show…how would you spend those funds

    urbanleftbehind (9240ed)

  112. So they could only give Jones a ride to the polls in a Maserati.

    Steve57 (0b1dac) — 12/12/2017 @ 6:56 pm

    You don’t want to be in a float behind the PP livery Maserati during the 4th of July Parade.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  113. Dominican Lenin aside and run the show…how would you spend those funds

    urbanleftbehind (9240ed) — 12/12/2017 @ 7:05 pm

    Is that where they got keeping it on the DL?

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  114. Ingrates! If it weren’t for Planned Parenthood, there would be at least 30 million more Democrat voters in the country right now. And you begrudge them a measly little Lamborghini. For shame.

    nk (dbc370)

  115. You in to replace Lee (meet Bart Giamatti), aph?

    urbanleftbehind (9240ed)

  116. Spend it on states you have a prospect of winning, true I didn’t go to Harvard I’m crazy that way.

    narciso (330e0d)

  117. Perhaps, I just think it was not a good appt, should have went with the rustiest white boy they could find instead.

    urbanleftbehind (9240ed)

  118. I think we are screwed. I’m embarrassed that the idea of due process is absent in our civil society.

    Steve Malynn (296daf)

  119. The Rican wave into FL might have enabled them to spend elsewhere in SEC country.

    urbanleftbehind (9240ed)

  120. Why, you hang the varmint then you conduct the trial, that’s eminently fair.

    narciso (330e0d)

  121. I got some Gray denim overcoats if it comes to that

    urbanleftbehind (9240ed)

  122. Gloria Alred wouldn’t steer is wrong, that’s never happened before.

    narciso (330e0d)

  123. Quite possible Mr. Malynn. Expect every Christian conservative to be tarred with unprovable allegations from here on out.

    The Soviets would be proud.

    NJRob (67b40d)

  124. It has to be a Lamborghini, it’s what teh baby parts salespeeps dream of owning. Get it right!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 12/12/2017 @ 6:59 pm

    I guess they had to scale down their dreams in ol ‘Bammy. Lots do.

    No Lamborghini for you!

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  125. So who will Trump blame?

    a) Moore
    b) McConnell
    c) FAKE NEWS MEDIA!!!
    d) Anybody but himself
    e) All of the above

    Dave (ce8574)

  126. 87% of polls reporting: it’s a 49.2% dead heat.

    ropelight (67237e)

  127. I’m assigning the NYT prediction to the category of wishful thinking. Either that, or preparation to claim Moore won via suppressing the black vote.

    Per CBS at 10:16 PM, with 39 out of 67 counties reporting

    CANDIDATE
    PARTY
    PCT.
    VOTES
    Doug Jones

    Democrat

    41.17 %

    187,010

    Roy Moore

    Republican

    57.43 %

    260,890

    Write-In

    1.40 %

    6,342

    kishnevi (bfcc0b)

  128. Ingrates! If it weren’t for Planned Parenthood, there would be at least 30 million more Democrat voters in the country right now. And you begrudge them a measly little Lamborghini. For shame.

    nk (dbc370) — 12/12/2017 @ 7:08 pm

    Ultimate voter suppression.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  129. Ropelight, where are you getting your results from?

    kishnevi (bfcc0b)

  130. Relax, guys. It ain’t over till Beverly Young Nelson sings.

    nk (dbc370)

  131. FOX NEWS calls the Alabama Senate race for Doug Jones.

    ropelight (67237e)

  132. Drudge calling it for the Dem.

    Bugg (08921e)

  133. kishnevi, running vote totals courtesy of FOX NEWS, via Direct TV.

    ropelight (67237e)

  134. Patterico is the worst at picking election results. FACT.

    UrsaMinor (26e8eb)

  135. huzzah!

    Q! (86710c)

  136. ‘Let’s face it. He’s gonna win.’

    Except he didn’t.

    Fox News/CNN call race for Democrat Doug Jones.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  137. Black voters played possum like in 2012.

    urbanleftbehind (9240ed)

  138. Congratulate Gloria. Allured, he swallowing a hamster like the visitors

    narciso (d1f714)

  139. One good thing might come out of this.

    Steve Bannon should now shut up. Every time he opens his mouth, say:

    you’re the guy who caused the Republicans to lose Jeff Sessions’ safe seat to the Democrats.

    IOW, a loser, who backed a loser.

    Bored Lawyer (fe5e63)

  140. Need GOP candidates who agree with Trump policies without drama and nonsense.

    Bugg (08921e)

  141. Thanks. Interesting that NBC says they’re about 10,000 votes apart, and says it’s too close to call.

    kishnevi (bfcc0b)

  142. There were three polls out this morning.

    One, by Fox News, showed Doug Jones up by 10 points 50% to 40% (live interviews of 1,410 registered voters reached by cellphone as well as landline conducted December 7 through December 10) a second, by Evercom College, showed Roy Moore up by 9 points, 53% to 44% (600 registered voters, reached by robocall between December 6 and 9th – note this has many fewer undecided probably because it has a higher opercentage who just didn’t answer the survey; ad Monmouth College, which had it ded heat at 46% each (546 registered voters reached by cellphone as well as landline from December 6 through December 9)

    Donald Trump’s involvement probably mildly hurt Roy Moore, and he knew it, but wanted peope to think differently, and Moore voters were more likely to answer surveys.

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73)

  143. Fox News: ‘This is not a referendum on Donald Trump.’

    Except it is.

    Strawberries are off tonight, Captain, sir. Taste the raspberries.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  144. Poetic Justice would require Jones to now be Me-Too’d.

    kishnevi (bfcc0b)

  145. You throw enipough ouvno on the wall, and even though many should know better it sticks. Mcturtle WA vouching for menedez on trial for corruption charges,

    narciso (d1f714)

  146. Was the Moore turnout low or the Jones turnout high? Or both?

    DRJ (15874d)

  147. There will be a recount, I hope. Particularly of those ballot boxes out of Birmingham, Montgomery and Tuscaloosa.

    nk (dbc370)

  148. @158. ‘Skirts’ the issue, DRJ. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  149. Meanwhile, Tom Emmet, Tim Pawlenty and Michele Bachmann are set to roust Al Franken from his slumber: “Bluff called, mother trucker!”

    urbanleftbehind (9240ed)

  150. let the alabama abortions flow to the glory of Jesus Christ

    thinks pedophile Mitt Romney

    as he smiles softly at a young boy

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  151. DRJ — I’ve been watching this all night, and the answer seems to be both.

    There were a number of black belt counties with turnout at 70%+ of 2016 turnout, which is crazy high for a special election. There were also a number of rural white counties with really low turnout.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  152. Patterico:

    a race between a pedophile and a supporter of killing any baby for any reason before it’s born.

    Doug Jones would probably deny that, but he would be lying. He came out in favor of the current Alabama law, which prohibits abortions after 20 weeks except on grounds of health (but that’s a loophole)

    He really is in favor of whatever a court or a legislature or an executive would authorize, and never would support any kind of limitation, and would always support the kind of judges who would amplify any right to abortion and restrict any non-participation.

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73)

  153. Tim Pawlenty

    i honestly haven’t thought of that guy in God knows when

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  154. Automatic recount only happens if the vote is within 0.5%. It’s currently at 0.7%.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  155. No Carlson or whoever runs the top men up there, considers tom and Michelle unpeople, remember hes the reason you got governor target.

    narciso (d1f714)

  156. Ladies and Gentlemen, channeling Tony Peraica at #159, the original Croatian crybaby.

    urbanleftbehind (9240ed)

  157. Once again I prove my absolute inability to predict election results. What really disturbs me is the complete absence of the concept of due process in our civil society. Once again we are going to see sexual relations weaponized against conservatives by the party of waitress sandwiches and Hollywood. A conservative candidate with over 40 years of public and elected service, a 32 year marriage, and zero scandal except for policy disputes was targeted and painted a pedophile – and every troll repeating that slur knows it’s a lie.

    “War on women” from now through election eve 2018, because there is no R who can survive that fake charge.

    Steve Malynn (296daf)

  158. That is crazy high, aphrael, much higher than one would expect. Someone helped turn out those votes. Could the Obama robocalls do that?

    DRJ (15874d)

  159. That’s very weird, he’ll I would think Charles Barkley would have more cred in the Black Belt.

    urbanleftbehind (9240ed)

  160. DRJ, one of fivethirtyeight’s analysts said this:

    > No doubt about it: Major, metro Alabama and the Black Belt came through for Jones. Voters in rural white counties didn’t move much towards Jones, but they utterly failed to turn out for Moore.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  161. never underestimate the average Alabama person’s lust for succulent abortions to the glory of Mormon Jesus

    it’s a thing

    abortions and cornbread!

    roll tide

    and… scene

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  162. DRJ – yeah, it’s insanely high. I don’t know Alabama, so I don’t know what would have influenced them.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  163. Kind of like calling an opponent’s father a part of JFK’s assassination conspiracy, Steve. Who would do that?

    DRJ (15874d)

  164. I don’t know Alabama, either, but I know what it feels like to not want to vote for either candidate.

    DRJ (15874d)

  165. The Republicans just lost a seat that they won with 97.25% of the vote in 2014.

    In 2009, the Democrats did not get the message sent by Scott Brown’s equally shocking victory, and paid dearly. The GOP should not make the same mistake.

    They should now move quickly to force Trump from office and ride the resulting wave of public gratitude to victory in next year’s midterm elections.

    Dave (ce8574)

  166. here’s my favorite breakfast place in Alabama (when i’m on the coast)

    it’s breakfast – nothing fancy – but you can have a bloody mary and get a good sense of where you are (good people)

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  167. Trump picked the wrong person — twice — in one election, but I don’t think this was a referendum on Trump. This was about Moore.

    DRJ (15874d)

  168. Virtually any other GOP candidate would have won this election.

    DRJ (15874d)

  169. I’m not too worried that sex will be weaponized against Republicans. Note how it has laid low some powerful Democrats this time around too. Roy Moore was a quirky guy who played up the populist schtick and who apparently liked to date teenage girls well into this 30s. Even if there is nothing wrong with that from a legal standpoint, it is still a bit disconcerting. If the GOP is going to be Bannonized and just find candidates to “piss off the establishment” or those who hate the elite more than the other guy does, then they’re going to have to suffer through some ridiculous losses like this.

    The only thing I really don’t like about Jones winning this is that every stupid lefty with a #Dear_Alabama tweet or Facebook post will take credit for having taught “those inbred hicks” a thing or two about how a progressive whining campaign works. But I’m still pretty satisfied that Jones will be defeated in 2018 or 2020 or whenever it is he is set to defend his seat.

    And now the GOP should hound Bob Menendez out of office.

    JVW (42615e)

  170. this election is where we learned not just how eagerly nevertrump will lie and defame

    but how shamelessly as well

    they truly have no integrity

    and there’s no going back

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  171. And Franken.

    DRJ (15874d)

  172. You have to realize the seminal event in this, following Sessions appt to AGUS, was the appointment of a state AG who was very nearly about to Indict a sitting Governor.

    urbanleftbehind (9240ed)

  173. Maybe it is simply that Alabamans, unlike Minnesotans, have no wish to be represented in the US Senate by a buffoon.

    kishnevi (bfcc0b)

  174. Another entertaining trivium:

    > Doug Jones lost Shelby County by just 56-42! Clinton got crushed there 72-27 & Moore even won it 63-37 in his 2012 race

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  175. At 10:52 pm Eastern Standard Time, with 98% of the precincts reporting, (2,180 of 2,220) we have, according to the AP, as reported by the New York Times:

    Doug Jones 639,088 votes, or 49.5%

    Roy Moore 629,749 votes or 48.8%

    Write-Ins 22,019 votes 1.7%

    This, of course, does not include absentee ballots. Not counting absentee ballots, theer should be about 24,000 votes outstanding.

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73)

  176. Trump backed McConnell’s Strange and lost to Bannon’s Moore. Then goes all in backing Bannon’s Moore and loses to Jones.

    in a civil war, blue suits are for winners, Captain, sir. Wear gray and you’re a looza.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  177. In 2009, the Democrats did not get the message sent by Scott Brown’s equally shocking victory, and paid dearly. The GOP should not make the same mistake.

    Yeah, but in 2012 President Obama’s popularity in Massachusetts dragged Lieawatha of Harvard Law across the finish line to beat Brown. I think the GOP will take back this Alabama seat at their next opportunity, unless Bannon’s rancid populism has spilt the GOP into two operative parties.

    JVW (42615e)

  178. From The License Plate Chronicles

    GOY 3000

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  179. No this is about not giving a farthing about the truth,your whole record from the MP lot in danang to the state supreme court building diesnt matter, 40 years don’t matter.

    The fact your opponent put the wrong man in jail, and only after the twisted heap of that night club and the abortion clinic did he consider I might have made a mistake.

    narciso (d1f714)

  180. Relax, guys. It ain’t over till Beverly Young Nelson sings.

    nk (dbc370) — 12/12/2017 @ 7:24 pm

    On the Red Carpet:

    John Stamos is deathly afraid of Little People, would you care to comment sir?

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  181. Yes that was an ocvuopy election, and the IRS and osha having a hammerlick on the tea party.

    narciso (d1f714)

  182. this is about not giving a farthing about the truth

    the truth they care about is they have one more vote against President trump now

    this mysteriously redounds to the benefit of pedophile Ted Cruz somehow

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  183. The real looza is Beverly Nelson.

    Last night she coulda might have gotten $1000.00 from a political memorabilia collector for that yearbook.

    Tonight, $10– maybe.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  184. John Stamos sells yogurt he knows the deal

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  185. Cutting room floor for all the honey boo boos now, DCSCA?

    nk (dbc370)

  186. nonono

    we haven’t heard Heidi Cruz’s #metoo moment yet Mr. nk

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  187. Lets like forger mike lees part in this, he was too selfrighteous to care about fair play, you think Stuart smaller will step down now, is theirs a bridge fir sale?

    narciso (d1f714)

  188. i’m curious about Franken too Mr. narciso but seriously that should be up to the voters of Minnesota not up to a whiny deranged skank like Kirsten Gillibrand

    at least the voters of alabama got to vote to do abortion all up in it to the everlasting glory of Mitt Romney

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  189. Trump tweets a congrats to Jones and says the write-ins the a big factor.

    Not alleged pedophilia, eh. Raspberry jam on your crackers, Captain sir?

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  190. Ah cory Gardner another rocket surgeon, who was too pure, to have his toga ubspotted.

    narciso (d1f714)

  191. @195 The real looza is Beverly Nelson. [Para.] Last night she coulda might have gotten $1000.00 from a political memorabilia collector for that yearbook. [Para.] Tonight, $10– maybe.

    Maybe. It strikes me she’s got a fair lawsuit against Moore, for slander, so I’m expecting she’ll come out of this more than o.k. financially. Emotionally, I expect that she’s just about over the moon right now, so that puts a smile on my face as well. She’s always seemed to me to be a good soul (represented – badly – by someone who vaguely reminds me of the Wicked Witch of the East).

    Q! (86710c)

  192. @197. Consolation prize, nk. Miss Kayla still has her a ‘jewish lawyer,’ an old man with a pistol and a one-trick pony named Sassy to keep watch over the lawn jockeys.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  193. Might actually get that yearbook into evidence, the check liters will get their reward as well.

    narciso (d1f714)

  194. DRJ – I want to be clear that I said 70% of 2016 turnout, not 70% turnout.

    But that’s still astonishing in a special election.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  195. It is.

    DRJ (15874d)

  196. Trump tweeted the GOP will have “another shot at this seat” in a short time. How is that so? I thought Sessions’ term ends in 2022.

    DRJ (15874d)

  197. Meghan McCain, the daughter of Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), blasted former White House chief strategist Stephen Bannon Tuesday night following the results of the Alabama Senate special election.

    “Suck it, Bannon,” McCain tweeted just after the Alabama race was called for Democratic candidate Doug Jones.

    she has very large breasts

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  198. And have they even counted the write-in votes? I’m confused by Trump’s tweet.

    DRJ (15874d)

  199. There’s a rumor that Nick Saban is most (1.6% of total 1.8%) of that write in vote. http://pjmedia.com/blog/liveblogevent/tuesdays-hot-mic-36/

    urbanleftbehind (9240ed)

  200. Trayvon was also a no limit something or other as I recall.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  201. Theyearbook was always meant to brandushrd but nrvee examined like the William memo.

    From the example I mentioned earlier a good man was dismissed from the department and a hack and miserable human being replaced him.

    narciso (d1f714)

  202. in short order President Trump’s already gotten rid of both the odious pervert Jeff Flake and rabid anti-semite Bob Corker

    and seriously

    what this race has exposed about nevertrump’s trashy lack of integrity is gonna pay dividends down the road as well

    Innocent until proven guilty is for criminal convictions, not elections. I believe Leigh Corfman. Her account is too serious to ignore. Moore is unfit for office and should step aside.

    This is who they are.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  203. Also interesting: Non-White share of vote in AL tonight was higher than in 2012 presidential exit: when does that happen in an off-year election? Another sign of a Trump effect that could reshape 2018 battlefield.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  204. Trump tweeted the GOP will have “another shot at this seat” in a short time. How is that so? I thought Sessions’ term ends in 2022.

    Sessions was last elected in 2014, so his term ends in 2020. Jones will have to run in a heavily Republican state with a GOP Presidential nominee at the top of the ticket. It will probably be Trump, but at this point who knows.

    JVW (42615e)

  205. DRJ – for optical scan ballots, counting write ins is a two step process:

    (a) the machine records that someone marked the write-in bubble

    (b) someone goes and manually tabulates who all the write-ins were for.

    Under AL law, (b) only happens if the total number of people counted in (a) is greater than the margin of victory, which it is.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  206. This feckless dump also raised the corporate rate, to see if they can find suckers, they should look in the mirror. To secure a veto proof majority, the demsshamed (Craig) indicted (Stevens) outright stole (franker) do anything and everything. Ensign was too busy playing doctor with his secretary to pay attention.

    narciso (d1f714)

  207. Some turnout data from the blue counties:

    https://twitter.com/Taniel/status/940800426609389569

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  208. Non-White share of vote in AL tonight was higher than in 2012 presidential exit

    hello black people were understandably repulsed by stinkypig; she was so nasty

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  209. Doug Jones declared victory shortly before 11 pm (without a concession by Roy Moore, apparently. All right maybe he wouldn’t give it easily, but it’s not exact;y customary before the oppoennt even has achane to figure things out))

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73)

  210. Happyfeet, at 220: that quote said *2012* presidential election.

    The nonwhite share of the vote was higher tonight than it was when Obama ran against Romney.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  211. The whole thing is poetic justice,

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73)

  212. How so, Sammy?

    nk (dbc370)

  213. Final unofficial results, 100% reporting:

    JONES 671,151 (49.9)
    MOORE 650,436 (48.4)
    write-ins 22,819 (1.7)

    Unfortunately the write-in count is higher than the margin of error, although the odds of that changing anything are close to zero.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  214. Like Malone said to news ‘what are yiprepared to do’. Congratulations you have Wendy Davis’s brother from another mother.

    narciso (d1f714)

  215. Moore won’t concede; says a recount may be necessary; wants to ‘wait on God.’

    God will have the crackers with raspberry jam. And coffee. Decaf.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  216. They’re breaking out the really, really good sparkling apple cider at Chateau d’Romney tonight. I won’t drink to Doug Jones’ victory, but I will drink to Roy Moore’s loss and to Steve Bannon’s ignominy.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  217. Happyfeet, at 220: that quote said *2012* presidential election.

    no i get that but this is the thing

    in 2012 white people in Alabama turned out to vote *against* captain food stamp not to vote for perverted pedophile Mitt Romney

    and last night black people turned out to vote against a chimerical pedophile, NOT to vote for the new Abortion Queen of the South Doug Jones

    you’re getting it all twisted

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  218. Dave supports a junta, but he’s a real Con.

    NJRob (c3af29)

  219. oops i guess i mean *tonight* not *last night* but you know what i mean Mr. aphrael

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  220. Do democrats accept the results of the election? OMG they are going to destroy muh digital records!!!

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  221. The whole thing is poetic justice,

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73) — 12/12/2017 @ 8:35 pm

    No, it’s not “poetic justice”. There was no poetry involved and neither were there any court dates.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  222. Thanks, JVW. Does Trump think his term will be over in a short time?

    DRJ (15874d)

  223. Hey… I just pulled a Sammy there!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  224. I blame the pro-lifers. If they had just stayed out of the way since Roe v. Wade, abortions would have eliminated Doug Jones’s margin of victory and more.

    nk (dbc370)

  225. Thanks, JVW. Does Trump think his term will be over in a short time?

    Well, as we have all come to find out, the older you get the more quickly time seems to pass. And Trump is no spring chicken.

    JVW (42615e)

  226. Richard Shelby wanted the pro-abortion dude to win, and so did the abortion-loving Alabama governor

    and so did Ted Cruz, who wanted the abortion candidate all up in it so good

    this is who they are

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  227. That’s what I meant, aphrael. They know there are X number of write-in votes but not who they voted for.

    DRJ (15874d)

  228. It’s like a bad dream. Reminds me of the every election in California since 1908.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  229. Pinandpuller:

    I’ve been absolutely baffled by that issue.

    First off, I don’t understand what it means for an optical scanner machine to take a digital image of each ballot. The things don’t come equipped with cameras. The most I can figure is that this would create a seperate file on disk for each recorded ballot, which could then be checked — but I can’t figure out how or why that’s better than just looking at the paper ballots, and I don’t understand why, if I think the tally might be corrupted, I would think the per-ballot files weren’t corrupted. I’m at a loss as to what this is supposed to achieve.

    Second off, even assuming I thought this was a fantastic idea, the circuit court issued an injunction requiring county election officials to change their process *sometime after noon on the day before the election*.

    Does anyone know what’s entailed in changing the process? Has anyone tested what happens when you do that? How certain are you that when you draft a procedure and send it out to local election workers who don’t know what they are doing and are simply following a checklist that someone put together without having time to think through all of the possible failure modes, how certain are you that that untrained worker won’t accidentally brick the machines?

    I mean, this is crazy. Changing your software process for an election less than 20 hours before the polls open? There’s no way that can work.

    So *even if I think the plaintiffs should win on the merits*, the AL Supreme Court made the only reasonable decision on the merits of the injunction.

    THAT SAID, it also looks like they issued their order after an ex parte hearing in which only one of the two parties was represented. If that’s true, it’s a massive violation of judicial ethics.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  230. Ted Cruz has been turning into just another politician since Trump was elected and that’s a fact. But he’s got two daughters to raise and pay for big weddings for, so I can’t blame him too much. Do Cubans do quinceaneras?

    nk (dbc370)

  231. Juche Dave, oh and bet ivanka they’ll be coming for your pop next, and if Mueller files an indictment against you or your husband don’t be surprised. Imjs

    narciso (d1f714)

  232. DRJ, I’ve been wondering what happens if a large number of people wrote in either Moore or Jones’ names.

    The ideological “run with the intent of the voter” camp, which I’m part of, says those write-ins should be counted even though they technically violate the formal rules.

    The ideological “people should obey the rules or their vote shouldn’t be counted” camp, which I expect the AL Secretary of State to be part of, says those write-ins shouldn’t be counted even though they clearly evince voter intent.

    My cynicism says that large numbers of partisans on both sides will abandon their ideological preference and go with whatever is more convenient based on their assumptions about the number of votes in question.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  233. and so did Ted Cruz, who wanted the abortion candidate all up in it so good

    this is who they are

    happyfeet (28a91b) — 12/12/2017 @ 8:49 pm

    The Zodiac changed his M.O.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  234. Do Cubans do quinceaneras?

    yes they do

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  235. He was still half a Canadian 14 months ago.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  236. one thing’s for sure

    tonight andrew breitbart would be celebrating the triumph of the MSM and the phony pedophile story they did all up in it

    please to join me in raising a glass to Mr. Breitbart

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  237. Yes but he grew up in Houston not Miami, I’ll spare him any grief and consider the idiots like the state treasurer with his forced manger comment and the governor who apparently can’t be trusted to vouch for anyone. Oh and a special cream pie for our sheepdog atty general, who was rousted from his nap to vouch for corfman and gleason.

    narciso (d1f714)

  238. There would have been a Breitbart v. Brannon schism had he lived.

    urbanleftbehind (9240ed)

  239. 216. JVW (42615e) — 12/12/2017 @ 8:32 pm

    Sessions was last elected in 2014,

    Sessions was not really elected in 2014.

    Yes, his last term began in January 2015, but in 2014, he had no challenger, not in the primary and not the general election. He won by default.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_election_in_Alabama,_2014

    Incumbent Republican Senator Jeff Sessions, who has served in the position since 1997, ran for re-election to a fourth term in office. He was the only candidate to file before the deadline and as such he was unopposed in the Republican primary election and only faced write-in opposition in the general election.[1] Sessions was re-elected with 97.25% of the vote. The remaining votes were write-ins.

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73)

  240. in all seriousness though

    there’s a good chance tomorrow might could be a good day to pull the trigger if you need a capital loss on anything for your 2017 taxes

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  241. In that sense it resembles his 1986 jydiciak confirmation. You were something about tribalism drj, African Americans voted within a standard deviation of 100% per Jones.

    narciso (d1f714)

  242. Nobody, Republican or Democrat, figured they stood a chance against him. And then he gave it all up to be Trump’s whipping boy. Por que, Jeff? Por que?

    nk (dbc370)

  243. Shelby flipped.

    Jones could, too, in time.

    “There’s always the unexpected.” – Major Warden [Jack Hawkins] ‘Bridge On The River Kwai’ 1957

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  244. Roy Moore wasn’t getting invited to any quinceaneras anyway.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  245. he was gonna be the pinata

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  246. 241. aphrael (e0cdc9) — 12/12/2017 @ 8:52 pm

    The most I can figure is that this would create a separate file on disk for each recorded ballot, which could then be checked — but I can’t figure out how or why that’s better than just looking at the paper ballots,

    Taking a picture means the ballot can’t be altered after that point, and doing it right away means there’s no or little time to plan for it, and anyone planning it would want to minimize the amount done because the more that is done, the greater the risk.

    The greatest risk of ballot tampering would be in precincts where 75% or more of the vote is for one candidate already, but there are statistical tests in case someone is interested. Fraud is more likely to add ballots (ballot stuffing) than to change them, though.

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73)

  247. He was the only candidate to file before the deadline and as such he was unopposed in the Republican primary election and only faced write-in opposition in the general election.[1] Sessions was re-elected with 97.25% of the vote. The remaining votes were write-ins.
    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73) — 12/12/2017 @ 9:04 pm

    Nobody came out of the woodwork you might say.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  248. Shelby flipped.

    And he flipped again, with the write-in campaign in this election. Once a turncoat, always a turncoat.

    nk (dbc370)

  249. The Democrats are fighting hard to get the breakaway Democrats in the New York State Senate to rejoin the caucus – but they will probably make primaries against them anyway even though they agreed.

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73)

  250. Hes a solid senator, as he was a us atty, he thought the law was something to be respected, the deems don’t do that, any number of cases show they will use it as a cudgel and cover it with a pillow (learner, Clinton, whomever ran the atf during fast and furious. They have a press monopoly as strict as the BBC and French TV? To run interference for them,

    narciso (d1f714)

  251. THAT SAID, it also looks like they issued their order after an ex parte hearing in which only one of the two parties was represented. If that’s true, it’s a massive violation of judicial ethics.

    aphrael (e0cdc9) — 12/12/2017 @ 8:52 pm

    It should be legal to Snapchat and Instagram that from the voting booth.

    Hey guys, if you want to know how I voted or what I had for dinner last night hit me up.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  252. @260- Less a flip and more a weather vane; the answer was blowin’ in the wind.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  253. Congratulations to Steve Bannon and Roy Moore on losing a GOP Senate seat in Alabama.

    Alabama.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  254. pedo christian republicans gonna pedo

    what can you do

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  255. That doesn’t excuse who should have known better:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/ThomasWictor/status/940804861330907137/photo/1

    There are some parallels to the grapevine in Malaysia, where many of these same honorable people did propaganda for mmalathurs party against anwar ibrahim, they called him an islamist and a sodomite, try squaring that circle.

    narciso (d1f714)

  256. No, the GOP played it like backgammon, and the deems brought the tire iron. The dossier is another case in point millions paid so the Russians can stitch anybslander together, and it is recycled as intelligence.

    narciso (d1f714)

  257. I thought only the “receiver” was subject to death.

    urbanleftbehind (9240ed)

  258. Cover it with a pillow, now on to gave Sherman’s fan fiction:
    https://mobile.twitter.com/ChuckRossDC/status/940809566685626368?p=v

    narciso (d1f714)

  259. Because it worked so well with Alright sheesh

    https://mobile.twitter.com/thealexvanness?p=s

    narciso (d1f714)

  260. Joe Biden’s wondering what Doug Jones’ jr high daughter’s hair smells like.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  261. 223. 224.

    SF: The whole thing is poetic justice,

    nk: How so, Sammy?

    Some people wanted not to be a little dishonest but they found that the most dishonest campaigning won.

    But maybe temporarily. I think maybe they’ll try again in other elections, and with Trump, and lose the argument there, and maybe also this in ths=s campaign will all be exposed anyway. Do the accusers of Roy Moore just go away now?

    They’re paying for taking the whole seat for granted and thinking they could do anything. . Nothing could go wrong. And for not challenging earlier dishonesty, (Roy Moore was indeed a buffoon and nobody said so)

    A lot of people apparently didn’t trust Luther Strange’s integrity, probably unjustifiably. (the Governor just wanted him out of the way so he could get a better plea bargain, but Luther Strange was not part of that deal.)

    If everyone had been more principled, and had explained why they took the positions they did, this whole situation would never have arisen. Roy Moore had the wholehearted support of aboutt one fith of the Alabama electorate.

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73)

  262. * I meant: Some people wanted to be a little dishonest but they found that the most dishonest campaigning won. They were content to have Roy Moore make the runoff.

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73)

  263. the upside for Roy Moore is he’s free to do pedo all up in it without worrying about how it will impact his candidacy

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  264. If theer had been areal Republican Party in Alabama, with a solid bench, and not ideologues, nothing lik this would have happened. Luther Strange was popular but it looked like he stepped away from his job in order to let a Governor skate.

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73)

  265. I get it.

    nk (dbc370)

  266. 276. But he’ not a pedophile, eve though Democrats are pretending he is, ignoring all the evidence and the exact nature of the charges. Making false allegations will come back to bite them,

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73)

  267. But he’ not a pedophile, eve though Democrats are pretending he is

    you don’t understand Mr. F

    the voters have spoken

    Roy Moore is now a pedophile immortal and unceasing

    he wants to tap that young stuff

    at church

    at the supermarket

    and at the place where he takes his horse for an oil change

    Merry Pedo Christmas

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  268. Speaking of weathervanes^

    urbanleftbehind (9240ed)

  269. Breitbart’s front page is spinning like one. I never go there, but I just could not resist a peek tonight.

    nk (dbc370)

  270. Trump’s tweet to Jones was gracious, which is what he does when Democrats win. His mean tweets are for Republicans.

    DRJ (0280d9)

  271. Breitbart.com and Bannon are hardest hit tonight, after Moore.

    DRJ (0280d9)

  272. plus taxpayers

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  273. Gi Joe was perhaps his best role.

    narciso (d1f714)

  274. Win, win. No albatrose around the neck.

    AZ Bob (f60c80)

  275. Yes there is that too, Alabama trial lawyer will be having quite a banquet.

    narciso (d1f714)

  276. Channing’s a hard worker but he’s never read a goddamn book

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  277. Right, what cue they’ll concoct next, murder tax evasion that’s corkers deal. Forget about what happened monday

    narciso (d1f714)

  278. Sweet home Alabama. Takin’ me home to see my kin.

    AZ Bob (f60c80)

  279. We’ll have torevisr that lynyrd skinyrd line.

    narciso (d1f714)

  280. Don’t need Neil Young around anyhow.

    AZ Bob (f60c80)

  281. Win, win. No albatrose around the neck.

    It was win-win for me too but watching the albatross hang on these people was going to be a win.

    This way, the alpha male bigoted asshole loses and that’s a win too.

    They still have enough votes to get their judges through.

    For now.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  282. Hey I saw my old pal redc1c4 on Twitter, proudly telling people he hasn’t paid attention to me since I went crazy #NeverTrump last year. His words not mine.

    I shed a brief tear for days of old and then blocked him.

    He was always more of an Ace of Spades guy anyway.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  283. the albatross is just a metaphor for hubris

    but it’s carb free if you wanna throw it on the barbie

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  284. What I was attempting to say was that a Moore win would be a disaster for Republicans. It would likely cause more seats to be lost in ‘18 election. Best he go away.

    AZ Bob (f60c80)

  285. Best he go away.

    plus he’s a kiddie-diddling pedophile

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  286. It gives well with spam though.

    When the next allegation of witchery. Looks like they will try to clean out some judges, kozinski is the canary I’ll do my best Donald suthrrland impression from body snatchers.

    narciso (d1f714)

  287. Like that French proverb ‘what a wicked animal. When attacked it degebds itself. How much did they have pay off in gadsden all the papers were in their pocket.

    narciso (d1f714)

  288. What I was attempting to say was that a Moore win would be a disaster for Republicans. It would likely cause more seats to be lost in ‘18 election. Best he go away.

    Oh, I know. But I don’t really much care about a disaster for Republicans in 2018. If they are going to lose the Senate, as appears likely (to me anyway), I’d prefer it to be as bloody and overwhelming as possible, as a repudiation of Trump.

    Brutal? Sure. But he is a cancer and fighting cancer requires harsh treatment.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  289. But he’ not a pedophile, eve though Democrats are pretending he is, ignoring all the evidence and the exact nature of the charges. Making false allegations will come back to bite them,

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73) — 12/12/2017 @ 9:49 pm

    No it won’t. It will be doubled down on because it worked. And people will lap it up because virtue signalling on social media is more important than our future as a nation.

    NJRob (c3af29)

  290. Sure, he wasn’t a true pedafile if the girls were post-pubescent. But he is still a nut job.

    AZ Bob (f60c80)

  291. So does this dude get barred from military roles: http://mashable.com/2017/12/12/channing-tatum-alabama-election/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Mashable+%28Mashable%29&utm_content=Yahoo+Search+Results#xo9CixDoUPqC

    urbanleftbehind (9240ed) — 12/12/2017 @ 10:02 pm

    That lousy site edited their headline to remove “for the love of God” from the end of their headline, but did such a poor job coding that it still shows for a split sec9nd before updating to the revised, no mention of God, headline.

    NJRob (c3af29)

  292. No it won’t. It will be doubled down on because it worked. And people will lap it up because virtue signalling on social media is more important than our future as a nation.

    OUR FUTURE AS A NATION DEPENDED ON ELECTING THE CHILD MOLESTER

    Patterico (115b1f)

  293. Thank you Patterico for your honesty. I still prefer a Republican Senate. I just don’t hate Trump that much.

    AZ Bob (f60c80)

  294. OUR FUTURE AS A NATION DEPENDED ON ELECTING THE CHILD MOLESTER

    Patterico (115b1f) — 12/12/2017 @ 10:35 pm

    Facts not in evidence. And a nice, hyperbolic lie to boot. Congrats on shouting your opinion for all to see.

    NJRob (c3af29)

  295. Just like keeping herschensohn out of the senate,yielded such divudents. Whereverbob mulholland is now he tips his hand. I’m just musing.

    narciso (d1f714)

  296. Look forward to all the posts about the corruption going on in the FBI and Muller’s witch hunt now that this is over.

    Hahaha. Who am I kidding. I won’t hold my breath.

    NJRob (c3af29)

  297. Trump bullies Republicans because their constituents want them to work with him, so bullying works on them. But it doesn’t work on Democrats because bullying only makes their constituents dislike him more. But what happens if the GOP loses its majority in Congress?I

    Will he be the President who does deals with Democrats and bullies Republicans into going along?

    DRJ (15874d)

  298. Good one NJRob

    AZ Bob (f60c80)

  299. Kozinski has credible accusers. Top law school grads and SCOTUS law clerks. Not honey boo boos or p**nos. I believe them.

    nk (dbc370)

  300. What’s the worse the accusers said? They were made to feel uncomfortable?

    AZ Bob (f60c80)

  301. DRJ, this election just might give Republicans the idea that Trump is the kiss of death and Bannon just so much bluff and bluster.

    nk (dbc370)

  302. Don’t confuse people with facts in the muddle of a burning its unsporting.

    narciso (d1f714)

  303. Kozinski? They were afraid to be alone with him. They were advising women law students not to apply for clerkships with him.

    nk (dbc370)

  304. You don’t think that’s serious? That’s exactly what workplace sexual harassment rules are meant to prevent. Kozinski had their careers in his stubby little Romanian hands. He was a feeder to the U.S. Supreme Court. These women not only had to suffer silently while they served out their clerkship with him, they had to do it at peak performance if they wanted a recommendation to a SCOTUS justice.

    nk (dbc370)

  305. nk,

    I think Trump needs to learn that if you are going to believe in tribes, you need to be nice to your tribe and mean to other tribe. That seems like Rule No. 1 for tribes, but Trump has it backwards and he’s starting the reap the results here.

    As for the accusers in the Moore case, the people of Alabama know Moore and they know his accusers. Even if they don’t know any of them personally, they know what type of people they are because of their backgrounds — just as Kozinski and his accusers are “known” to their peers because of their backgrounds. You know who you believe, even if you don’t know them personally, because you live in their world. The people of Alabama live in Moore and his accusers’ world, and enough of them had doubts and stayed home to make the difference here.

    DRJ (0280d9)

  306. I don’t this this will hurt Trump with voters as much as it will hurt him with Congress. Trump can’t afford to lose any more legislative battles and the GOP Congress knows it, so they have more power now. Knowing Trump, he will respond by doing a deal with the Democrats or at least with the Democrats from red and purple states.

    DRJ (0280d9)

  307. Setting aside my well-known contempt for Trump, I find it mind-boggling that anyone (and I mean both he and his supporters like Bannon) elected by such a razor-thin electoral margin, with a minority of the popular vote, and a very narrow legislative majority, would try to govern like they had won in a landslide and had 70+% approval.

    Flip one vote in a hundred in three states, and the election outcome is different. It seems like a sane politician in that situation would try to add to their fragile coalition. Instead, Trump & Co. have not only said “to hell with moderates and independents” but actually sought to alienate and crucify their own allies, merely for being insufficiently obsequious to Trump (even while usually voting with him).

    Not really even talking about any change to the agenda, just a smarter and more realistic appraisal of the political landscape.

    What they’ve done instead is, as the Brits like the say, “the very midsummer of madness”.

    Dave (ce8574)

  308. As for the accusers in the Moore case, the people of Alabama know Moore and they know his accusers. Even if they don’t know any of them personally, they know what type of people they are because of their backgrounds — just as Kozinski and his accusers are “known” to their peers because of their backgrounds. You know who you believe, even if you don’t know them personally, because you live in their world. The people of Alabama live in Moore and his accusers’ world, and enough of them had doubts and stayed home to make the difference here.

    DRJ, when you’re right, you’re right.

    nk (dbc370)

  309. Kozinski has credible accusers. Top law school grads and SCOTUS law clerks. Not honey boo boos or p**nos. I believe them.
    nk (dbc370) — 12/12/2017 @ 10:49 pm

    Officers of the court. They have to tell the truth (/s). They don’t want a new career in payday loans. They could probably work for Mueller at least. Choose their extra-marital sexual partners.

    Working for Kozinski must be like Duck, Duck, Goose.

    Pinandpuller (7cb04a)

  310. Former Massachusetts state Sen. Brian Joyce was arrested and charged with running his office as a “criminal enterprise” Friday, and is now facing a 113 count indictment from the federal government.

    Joyce is reported to have gained $1 million through bribes and kickbacks and has also been charged with racketeering, extortion, honest services fraud, money laundering, and conspiracy to defraud the IRS, according to Newsweek.

    The 55-year-old Democrat was taken into custody by the FBI after a two-year investigation and was found to have accepted “hundreds of pounds” of Dunkin Doughnuts coffee, after he pulled strings for a local franchise owner, Newsweek reports.

    Prosecutors accused Joyce of using his law firm to launder money while he was still working as a state legislator.

    4,288 sealed indictments to go

    Pinandpuller (7cb04a)

  311. Twatwaffles

    JD (ec3581)

  312. Dave- should he govern like he lost? Adopt policies he doesn’t believe in?

    JD (ec3581)

  313. Dave- should he govern like he lost? Adopt policies he doesn’t believe in?

    To repeat myself:

    Not really even talking about any change to the agenda, just a smarter and more realistic appraisal of the political landscape.

    I guess I am saying he should govern like he almost lost.

    Because he did almost lose.

    Dave (ce8574)

  314. Would you rather have

    John McCain’s daughter watch your kids

    or have

    Jeff Flake’s son watch your dogs?

    Pinandpuller (7cb04a)

  315. WOW.

    USA Today unloads on Trump in today’s editorial:

    With his latest tweet, clearly implying that a United States senator would trade sexual favors for campaign cash, President Trump has shown he is not fit for office. Rock bottom is no impediment for a president who can always find room for a new low.
    […]
    A president who would all but call Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand a whore is not fit to clean the toilets in the Barack Obama Presidential Library or to shine the shoes of George W. Bush.

    Emphasis added.

    The nation doesn’t seek nor expect perfect presidents, and some have certainly been deeply flawed. But a president who shows such disrespect for the truth, for ethics, for the basic duties of the job and for decency toward others fails at the very essence of what has always made America great.

    Indeed.

    Dave (ce8574)

  316. I’ll bet President Trump finds the allusion to doing manual labor deeply offensive.

    Dave (ce8574)

  317. The big winner is Gloria Alred. You all tell me how terrible a lawyer she is and I tend to believe you because what do I know?

    Yet over and over again she gambles on a public belief that the carrying of a penis is a crime in of it’s self. And every one of you fold your hand to cup your johnson, like you’re expecting a kick from your sister.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  318. David French tells it like it is: Alabama Conservatives Made Their Stand

    Let’s plainly state the reason why Roy Moore lost tonight. Alabama conservatives took a stand. By the tens of thousands they either stayed home, voted for other candidates, or — in some instances — voted for Doug Jones. To say that conservatives beat Roy Moore is not to take one thing away from Doug Jones. He ran a smart race, he mobilized Democrats, and his voters came to the polls in large numbers — large enough to win. But this is Alabama. He could have run the perfect race, and he still would have lost — if conservatives supported their party’s nominee.

    Tonight, Alabama conservatives told Steve Bannon and, yes, Donald Trump that integrity matters. They told their party that some victories aren’t worth the cost. They declared that partisanship isn’t worth grotesque moral compromise. The deep South said no to Roy Moore’s bigotry. It said no to his ignorance and malice.

    Read the whole thing.

    Dave (445e97)

  319. Also, somewhat per the link, #NeverTrumpers are the cancer.

    CFarleigh (6994bd)

  320. What is it about some lawyers? http://ace.mu.nu/archives/372930.php

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  321. Leave the good people of Alabama alone. If one state deserves ridicule and hate it’s the state of Massachusetts. Never has a place been more racist, bigoted and full of hate if you don’t believe what they believe, this state and it’s history of elected hacks have done more harm to this country than the rest combined. Ted Kennedy and his open border policy has fu#ked America for decades.

    mg (60b0f7)

  322. The establishment Mcconnell butt boys really blew this one.
    It would have been funny to see the judge sitting next lieawatha.

    mg (60b0f7)

  323. Schlichter tells it like it is, what it was and what it will be.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  324. Mcconnell lost this election when he thought Strange would beat the Judge in a runoff. The idiot Mcconnell should have backed Mo Brooks. Mcconnell needs a date with a sturdy oak branch.

    mg (60b0f7)


  325. And her name is G L O are I I I
    G L O are I A (Gloria)
    G L O are I A (Gloria)
    I’m gonna shout it all night (Gloria)
    I’m gonna shout it everyday (Gloria)
    Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah

    papertiger (c8116c)

  326. So Trumpublican hubris brings a Walker to the Party for some laughs and the best Democrats can do is stop Cotton Mather and his 36 percenter s from ushering in End Times.

    Not bad.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  327. Mr. JD merry christmas

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  328. Oh, Alabama
    The devil fools
    With the best laid plan
    Swing low, Alabama
    You got the spare change
    You got to feel strange
    And now, the moment
    Is all that it meant

    [Chorus]
    Alabama
    You got the weight on your shoulders
    That’s breaking your back
    Your Cadillac
    Has got a wheel in the ditch
    And a wheel on the track

    [Verse 2]
    Oh, Alabama
    Banjos playing through the broken glass
    Windows, down in Alabama
    See the old folks
    Tied in white robes
    Hear the banjo
    Don’t it take you down home?

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  329. Donald J. Trump may not always be right, but he is NEVER wrong: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/13/us/trump-moore-loss-alabama.html

    He said Moore could not win! He knew Moore could not win! He predicted Moore would not win! If you say he didn’t, you’re #FakeNews.

    nk (dbc370)

  330. The answer came from Selma, the Alabama city that was central to the long march for civil rights and voting rights in the American South.

    The Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. spoke in 1965 of a civil-rights movement that was on “a mighty walk from Selma, Alabama.”

    It was fitting to recall those words on Tuesday night.

    When the votes from Selma and surrounding Dallas County came in just a little after 10 pm, Moore’s lead began to evaporate. On CNN, John King announced, “Selma just put Doug Jones back into the race.”

    https://www.thenation.com/article/on-a-wave-of-votes-from-selma-doug-jones-sweeps-to-victory/

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  331. David French (Dave @332) is all wet. This is Alabama we’re talking about. The reason Alabama “conservatives” stayed home is because Kayla Moore just had to go and open her big mouth and say the Moores had Jewish friends at Moore’s last campaign rally.

    nk (dbc370)

  332. God bless the write in voters.

    It didn’t work out for my vote in 2016

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  333. I think she added that they always hire Darkies for their kitchen staff.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  334. plus a shocking number of Alabama people failed to embrace Mr. Moore’s christian pedophilia

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  335. And there’s the more damaging fact that none of the honey boo boos were related to him. “If he ain’t good enough for his female kin, he ain’t good enough for us.”

    nk (dbc370)

  336. Donald J. Trump

    @realDonaldTrump
    The people of Alabama will do the right thing. Doug Jones is Pro-Abortion, weak on Crime, Military and Illegal Immigration, Bad for Gun Owners and Veterans and against the WALL. Jones is a Pelosi/Schumer Puppet. Roy Moore will always vote with us. VOTE ROY MOORE!
    6:09 AM – Dec 12, 2017

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (b3d5ab)

  337. This is what I have to say about it: 62,984,825 Americans voted for this.

    Everything else is beside the point, and will be, until this shadow finally passes from the land.

    http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a14416590/62984825-americans-voted-for-this/

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (3abbdb)

  338. SF: But he’ not a pedophile, eve though Democrats are pretending he is

    280. happyfeet (28a91b) — 12/12/2017 @ 9:59 pm

    you don’t understand Mr. F

    the voters have spoken

    Roy Moore is now a pedophile immortal

    Part of the headline on this morning’s New York Daily News is:

    Teen-loving Moore loses Alabama race in big blow to Trump.

    The rest of the headline is about his horse. People like the fact , or thay liked to make something wrong out of the fact thathe rode a horse to go the polls. (A tradition with him he says)

    Ehe new York Post also has this thing aout thehorse, and

    Perv Moore loses in Alabama (Actualkly that’s white letters on a black background.

    a+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++nd

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73)

  339. I just read your link comrade Ben!, and two things jumped out at me. First the writer sais Trump “slut-shamed” the woman. I failed to see where he called her a slut or any such thing unless there is more he did not reproduce of the president’s tweet. Second by stating sternly “until this shadow finally passes from the land” is he suggesting committing genocide against 62 million people? Or is throwing them out an option? I understand genocide is the leftists go-to remedy for non-believers in the cult of government but in America a lot of us frown on it.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  340. Poetic license hoagie.

    No. We don’t want to burn witches and warlocks. That’s Cotton Mathers intent and now he’s a footnote. Who’s next?

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (3abbdb)

  341. About the accusations:

    First of all:

    1. NONE OF THIS IS CURRENT!

    And it is being treated like it was. It’s true enough that genuine sex offenders continue and repeat themselves. But that doesn’t mean it happened here. There are no accusations of any nature past 1991 (an alleged pinching) and otherwise all date from before his marriage, and all but two don’t amount to much. At this moment, they should have come out of the woodwork.

    2. Secondly, there are not multiple similar accusations.

    There is onely one woman who says he approached her when she was 14. All the other cases are legally pedophilia – nor did he do anything with them. (there is one attempted rape, and I would think the rape accusation is more serious than the idea of how young she was when he supposedly attempted to rape her. Even if she has him say “You are a child.”)

    Third, hat means an organized campaign to denigrate Roy Moore .

    None of the four women the Washington Post first wrote about supposedly knew each other. Leigh Corfman didn’t come forward on her own, – she says and the Washington Post says. The Washington Post says it was them who approached four women,

    How did they know about them?

    Well, somebody told them. Which they even said.

    Now it is easier to make up a story than to find one. (But I don’t think the Washington Post made it up)

    Now Moore hasn’t been completely honest. At one point Moore acknowledged knowing at least two of the three other women in the first story. He isn’t accused of doing anything more than taking them out one or two times and kissing, and giving one of them a drink when she was still several months to a year under the then-legal drinking age in Alabama of 19. (Moore said earlier he didn’t think that was the case because the alleged location was in a dry county – the counterargument is that people can take their own wine)

    There is no pattern of pedophilia or rape.

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73)

  342. Sluts should be shamed. But Trump should have gone hunting where the ducks are. Kirsten Gillibrand is where she is because she wore knee-pads for Bill and Hillary Clinton for twenty years.

    nk (dbc370)

  343. 200 million registered voters and Trump stole the WH with 63 million.

    Now that’s some voter fraud.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (3abbdb)

  344. Voter fraud and Republican political grease.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (3abbdb)

  345. Read deeply… http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2017/12/strzok-page-texts-show-hatred-of-trump-by-the-two-ex-team-mueller-members.php

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 12/13/2017 @ 3:00 am

    They read no differently than many of the commenters on here. I wonder what lengths some of ours would go through to “save the country” like Strzok and his ilk did.

    NJRob (c3af29)

  346. Strzok is just a human bean and beans sometimes find douchebags like Trump and minions trashy. Even though they look washed, they also seem to be odious.

    It’s hard to be a forgiving Christian all the time, especially when their mucosa is frequently snorted out with arrogance.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (3abbdb)

  347. In 2016, 43% of Alabaman Republicans voted for Trump in the GOP primary, 21% voted for Cruz, and 18% voted for Rubio.

    In 2012, 35% of Alabama Republicans voted for Santorum in the GOP primary, 30% for Gingrich, and 29% for Romney.I

    In other words, it seems to me that a third to a fifth of Alabama voters care about the values/character of the candidate. That matters in a close race like this, where the margin was 21,000 votes out of the total 1.3 million votes cast.

    DRJ (15874d)

  348. Not only did Steve Bannon cost us a critical Senate seat in one of the most Republican states in the country, but he also dragged the president of the United States into his fiasco,” Law said in the statement. “This is a brutal reminder that candidate quality matters regardless of where you are running.”

    Many in Washington have warned from the onset about Bannon’s plan to remake the GOP, saying his planned civil war would at best not increase the Republican majorities in Congress and at worst might even hand the majorities to the Democrats.

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/12/13/bannons-kingmaker-status-tarnished-by-moore-defeat.html

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (3abbdb)

  349. It depends on whether they have character, NJRob. Do you care to elaborate on which people here you are insinuating have no character?

    DRJ (15874d)

  350. Any trumptweets this am on Bannon?

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (3abbdb)

  351. Hi, JD.

    DRJ (15874d)

  352. Law, roves factotum, the one who stabbed odonnell and miller in the back, And mcdabiel in the front.

    narciso (d1f714)

  353. Don’t get too distracted

    “The walls are therefore closing in on Trump. But the closer Mueller gets to Trump, the likelier it is that Trump will act to try to end his investigation. Ask yourself this: if you committed a crime and had one of the nation’s top cops coming for you, wouldn’t you try anything, no matter how risky, to get out of it? The same circumstances led Richard Nixon to commit the Saturday night massacre.””
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/dec/12/robert-mueller-trump-congress-protect-investigation

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (3abbdb)

  354. It depends on whether they have character, NJRob. Do you care to elaborate on which people here you are insinuating have no character?

    DRJ (15874d) — 12/13/2017 @ 6:57 am

    You continue to tar Mr. Moore with unprovable allegations and you want to talk about character? Come down off your high horse.

    My comment is meant as intended. All will need to look inside themselves to see if it fits.

    NJRob (c3af29)

  355. I still don’t think this hurts Trump. Trump didn’t support Moore until he was the nominee, but then he made an effort to support Moore because he is the head of the party. That’s expected.

    I also expect Trump to remind Jones he is representing Alabama. If Jones wants any chance at re-election, he should remember his constituents voted for Trump and usually vote for the GOP. The next GpP candidate won’t be like Moore so unless Jones wants to be a (less than) one term Senator, he should remember who and what sent him to Washington.

    DRJ (15874d)

  356. So you were talking about me when you wondered “what lengths some of ours would go through to “save the country” like Strzok and his ilk did.” A Yes or No answer will suffice.

    DRJ (15874d)

  357. Snowball’s chance in Alabama that Jones wins re-election

    Colonel Haiku (c8a9e1)

  358. Moore had a loyal base of supportEVANGELICALS in Alabama despite—or because of—the litany of controversies attached to him, including his inflammatory remarks about homosexuality and Muslims serving in office. But he was unable to reach beyond that base evangelicals, and barely tried. And in the end he could not survive allegations by nine women that Moore had pursued or sexually abused them when they were teenagers—one as young as 14. The story consumed the final weeks of the campaign, with Moore unable to offer a substantive rebuttal to the allegations, instead attempting to discredit the mainstream media and his accusers. He went underground during the final stretch of the race, hardly appearing in public while Jones barnstormed the state.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/12/republican-alabama/548246/

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (3abbdb)

  359. 374

    Trump is tied to the Moore ilk like a meteor digging a hole to China.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (3abbdb)

  360. So you were talking about me when you wondered “what lengths some of ours would go through to “save the country” like Strzok and his ilk did.” A Yes or No answer will suffice.

    DRJ (15874d) — 12/13/2017 @ 7:15 am

    No. I don’t consider you to be an unprincipled hack.

    Surprised that you thought I did.

    NJRob (b00189)

  361. God is always in control,” Moore said during a short speech to supporters on election night.

    Nottoobrightbart.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (3abbdb)

  362. Db’s like our resident troll Burnie Bros on the other hand…

    NJRob (b00189)

  363. You continue to tar Mr. Moore with unprovable allegations and you want to talk about character? Come down off your high horse.

    Unprovable? Moore admitted enough of it. A 30 something dude dating teenagers. He’s a loser who seeks relationships where he has all the power. Politically he’s been a loser for many years now.

    All this talk about high horses and virtue signalling has me wondering whether Trump’s fanbase is nihilist. They are a political faction of hatred, particularly for conservatives they call “never trumpers.” Instead of building bridges to their closest potential allies, they take their 34% approval and try to purify it to knee bending sychophants.

    Moore was a loser whether or not he molested children, NJRob.

    Snowball’s chance in Alabama that Jones wins re-election

    Colonel Haiku

    This is true. He’s an outrageous Senator. Granted, six years is a long time in American politics, but when you push through a controversial candidate who was elected because the opponent sucked, you don’t have a mandate. Hint hint hint.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  364. Or guys that suggest a junta like ConDave…

    NJRob (b00189)

  365. That’s encouraging Nutjob.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (3abbdb)

  366. Dustin,

    I try to ignore you, then you just spout lies.

    He was a 32 year old that dated teens in an area where I expect every 20-something was already married. He also married a woman over a decade his junior and has been married to her for over 30 years without incident. He’s lived a public, God-fearing life as an outspoken Christian who understands that our nation is made for “a moral and virtuous people and wholly unfit for any other.”

    But you don’t care.

    A candidate that didn’t support your version of Republicanism was defeated. That’s a success, right?

    NJRob (b00189)

  367. 376, well it did snow in da South this past week, just look at anything SEC for stadium shots. Got to learn to control weather like the Russians.

    urbanleftbehind (9240ed)

  368. Buckle up. The energized left has found a national model for taking out a flawed republican in a traditionally safe seat. It’s going to get uglier before it gets better. The politics of personal destruction the Clinton’s decried in the 90’s are back with a vengeance. Sacrificing the unpopular or unwanted to the gathering mob isn’t going to satisfy their thirst for power. Meanwhile the corrupt members of the entrenched status quo remain unaccountable for their sins against the rule of law.

    crazy (d99a88)

  369. We’d have no problem with someone didplaying Christian principles as opposed to mouthing piety and virtue.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (3abbdb)

  370. Crazy,

    you are exactly correct. We are entering the days of Mao’s Red Guard.

    NJRob (b00189)

  371. Meh….the Alabama election is over and Jones won. It shows the new (maybe not so new) Democrat tactic of terrorizing the opposition. Democrat terrorists win when they terrorize us into being too afraid to do the right thing. They use the race card most often but now it’s the go back till birth and say he touched a pussy card. There is really no way to prove your innocence against unfounded and exaggerated accusations from four decades ago. The Democrats don’t have to be right, nor accurate, nor truthful they only need to plant the seed of doubt. Now they can terrorize any GOP candidate just by the forty-year look back rule using Moore as an example. There is no statute of limitations on terrorist Democrats destroying a persons reputation. That’s the beauty of their tactic.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  372. Thank you, NJRob.

    Politics is not a court of law. We don’t require proof to decide we don’t trust the Clintons, or Ted Kennedy, or any number of people. I don’t need a criminal conviction to know I don’t trust Moore to be elected to public office. We may disagree about which people we choose to trust, and why, but the principle is the same. We get to decide for ourselves about who we trust.

    But if I did live in Alabama and chose not to vote for Moore, it would not have been because of the sex claims. While I believe some of the claims and think they show he is a man of poor judgment, they are old claims. But Moore’s poor judgment isn’t limited to his need to date and marry younger women he can control.

    As a Supreme Court judge, Moore showed poor judgment and a desire to control results even when he went against the law. He is ignorant about the Constitution and, unlike officials who aren’t lawyers, Moore has no excuse for his ignorance because he is a lawyer and a judge. It is not good to send people to Washington who have already proven they think they are above the law.

    DRJ (15874d)

  373. > six years is a long time in American politics

    Nitpick. Jones was elected to fill out the rest of Sessions’ term. He’ll be up for election again in 2020.

    My expectation is he will lose at that point.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  374. Facts not in evidence. And a nice, hyperbolic lie to boot. Congrats on shouting your opinion for all to see.

    The hyperbole and shouting indicated irony.

    There was no lie. You’re on thin ice making a statement like that.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  375. How did Anne Richards work out for you, Doug Jones might as well be his nephew.

    Yes the bureau who has ignored 15 known wolves until it has been too late, who practically directed the shooters in garland who covered up cast and curious, yes we can trust them.

    narciso (330e0d)

  376. I try to ignore you, then you just spout lies.

    There’s that word again. NJRob, I get it that you are sad that your favorite child molester got his ass handed to him. You will, however, stop refraining from calling honest people liars. Or you will be shown the do

    Patterico (115b1f)

  377. But mcturtle can sell you a bridge and throw you under the same bridge that requires a certain low cunning. What legislative achievement can out duma take credit for, sans richard burrs

    narciso (330e0d)

  378. Kangaroo court, yes its schumers but burrs the straight man.

    narciso (330e0d)

  379. If the left thinks this will work, then it will continue for awhile … but at some point it won’t work, just like any political tactic. In the meantime, the right will try to use it. Trump certainly will, which should be entertaining to watch as Democratic heads explode.

    DRJ (15874d)

  380. Really drj you really are naive seriously, what will stop them, tribalism if Alabama isn’t proof that one faction will jump over into the volcano sans evidence I don’t know what is.

    narciso (330e0d)

  381. I thought Ann Richards was an acceptable Governor, narciso. I was disappointed in her opponent’s judgment and it cost him an election. The Texas GOP made better choices after that election. Maybe that will happen in Alabama, too.

    DRJ (15874d)

  382. I may be naive, narciso, but I believe in the American experiment. I’m not going to destroy it in the guise of saving it.

    DRJ (15874d)

  383. There’s that word again. NJRob, I get it that you are sad that your favorite child molester got his ass handed to him. You will, however, stop refraining from calling honest people liars. Or you will be shown the do

    Patterico (115b1f) — 12/13/2017 @ 7:45 am

    Prove your claim he’s a child molester. A civil suit showing a majority claim will suffice.

    NJRob (b00189)

  384. Virtually every independent outfit is being demonetized based on rumor and innuemdo, but Bezos and Carlos slims can slander 24/7

    narciso (330e0d)

  385. Morality is important to our nation’s endurance. It is what the Founders meant by the phrase the pursuit of happiness. We ignore it at our peril.

    DRJ (15874d)

  386. Politics is not a court of law. We don’t require proof to decide we don’t trust the Clintons, or Ted Kennedy, or any number of people. I don’t need a criminal conviction to know I don’t trust Moore to be elected to public office. We may disagree about which people we choose to trust, and why, but the principle is the same. We get to decide for ourselves about who we trust.

    But if I did live in Alabama and chose not to vote for Moore, it would not have been because of the sex claims. While I believe some of the claims and think they show he is a man of poor judgment, they are old claims. But Moore’s poor judgment isn’t limited to his need to date and marry younger women he can control.

    As a Supreme Court judge, Moore showed poor judgment and a desire to control results even when he went against the law. He is ignorant about the Constitution and, unlike officials who aren’t lawyers, Moore has no excuse for his ignorance because he is a lawyer and a judge. It is not good to send people to Washington who have already proven they think they are above the law.

    DRJ (15874d) — 12/13/2017 @ 7:39 am

    We have proof against Kennedy and the Clintons. You’d have been better off using Obama as your target.

    Moore was removed from the bench for his actions. Then the people put him back there.

    Lawyers do not have a special superior access to understanding the law and interpreting it. They are not philosopher kings.

    NJRob (b00189)

  387. The hyperbole and shouting indicated irony.

    There was no lie. You’re on thin ice making a statement like that.

    Patterico (115b1f) — 12/13/2017 @ 7:42 am

    If irony could not be read it’s because it wasn’t there to be seen. In your mind you may have believed it so, but in the context of the discussion it wasn’t there.

    NJRob (b00189)

  388. Decency wins

    Thanks for the help you Flake!

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (3abbdb)

  389. Even Victor Davis Hanson — who many here link because he is a Trump supporter — is now warning us about the dangers of tribalism. VDH, Simon Jester and Patterico see the consequences of tribalism in California. They know what it does.

    DRJ (15874d)

  390. In a democratic society, lawyers *should not* have special superior access to understanding and interpreting the law.

    But in *our* society, the law is arcane for a reason. Lawyers do *in practice* have a better understanding of what the law says and how to reconcile provisions which are vague, borderline incoherent, and/or conflicting with each other.

    The fact that it *is* that way is a fact sufficient to condemn our legislators and regulators. But given that our legislators and regulators are who they are, they have produced law which is difficult for the layperson to understand.

    I’ll stand with you to denounce the legislators and regulators who produced this outcome, but I’ll also say that I want my judges to be people who have been trained in understanding it, and whose behavior reflects that understanding.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  391. Whatabout Chappiquiddick?

    But Kleagle Democrats

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (3abbdb)

  392. Democrats lose another voter. Gov. Moonbeam weeps.

    SAN FRANCISCO, CA (Fox News) – An illegal immigrant from Vietnam faces life in prison after being convicted Monday in the 2012 hammer-killing of a family of five after losing money at a casino earlier in the evening.

    Binh Thai Luc, who had a violent criminal history and was supposed to be deported in 2006, was found guilty in the murders of a family of Chinese immigrants. He was also found guilty of five counts of attempted robbery and two counts of burglary.

    Luc, who was in debt and served an eviction notice, killed the family during a robbery after he lost money at a casino on March 23, 2012.

    Prosecutors said the family kept thousands of dollars in cash in the San Francisco home. Luc had more than $6,500 with him during his arrest. The jury was told that Luc settled his debt after the killings.

    With any luck Moonbeam can get those felons voting before the next go-around.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  393. If Moore had wanted to molest children, he would have done it in Vietnam where they could be had for the two cigarettes in a C ration. Maybe the honey boo boos did have the experiences they related. But they weren’t with Roy Moore. They were with a boyfriend, or mama’s boyfriend, or whomever. But like DRJ pointed out last night, those kind of ladies are to Alabamans what top law school graduates are to us, and enough people bought their stories.

    nk (dbc370)

  394. DRJ, at 408: I’ve spent most of the last year arguing against tribalism on the left.

    In general, those of us on both sides who want to defeat tribalism are *currently* fighting a losing battle. But if we don’t keep fighting this losing battle, there’s no hope for change tomorrow.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  395. “Unprovable allegations” hahaha. Some people apparently believe that the only way to “prove” something is to catch someone in the act, on camera.

    Leviticus (86a905)

  396. Yes empowering the Gloria alreds and Mike nifongs will do well.

    narciso (330e0d)

  397. VDH can’t help but take a swipe at Greek Democracy as though tribal.

    Totalitarianism has no tribe?

    You’d think he’d at.least favor the notion of requiring citizens to vote even if the Law wasn’t enforced.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (3abbdb)

  398. Make that VDH, Simon Jester, Patterico, and aphrael have warned us about tribalism.

    You’re in good company, aphrael.

    DRJ (15874d)

  399. Aphrael

    The Left should get some rhino hide. They are way too soft for negotiations. They give up too much in their bargains.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (3abbdb)

  400. Even Victor Davis Hanson — who many here link because he is a Trump supporter — is now warning us about the dangers of tribalism. VDH, Simon Jester and Patterico see the consequences of tribalism in California. They know what it does.

    DRJ (15874d) — 12/13/2017 @ 8:06 am

    What was the turnout for Democrats compared to the turnout for Hillary last year? How were their strongholds?

    Seems tribalism won.

    NJRob (b00189)

  401. Some people know the difference between contemporaneous utterances and prior consistent statements, too.

    nk (dbc370)

  402. But weren’t the Greek city-states inherently tribal, Ben? I’m not an expert by any means. Educate me if that’s wrong. Are you around, nk?

    DRJ (15874d)

  403. Hillary Clinton celebrated last night that Alabama rejected the worst possible candidate without one oz of recognition that the country did the same thing in Nov 2016.

    Meanwhile…….

    “Glenn Simpson, co-founder of Fusion GPS — the infamous firm behind the dossier compiled by former British spy Christopher Steele — stated in a court declaration that his firm hired Nellie H. Ohr as a subcontractor to help with “research and analysis of Mr. Trump,” according to Chuck Ross at The Daily Caller. Nellie H. Ohr is married to Bruce G. Ohr, who was associate deputy attorney general at the DOJ until he was recently demoted.

    The timing of Bruce Ohr’s demotion is curious, as he retained his status as a top DOJ official until just before Fox News broke the story about his wife’s role at Fusion GPS and his own secret meetings with Steele and Simpson in 2016.”

    http://thefederalist.com/2017/12/13/fusion-gps-paid-top-doj-officials-wife-dig-dirt-trump/

    Now that AL is over maybe you can give this some time…….

    harkin (0d876d)

  404. Joe “They’re gonna put ya’ll in chains” Biden concurs Aphrael.

    NJRob (b00189)

  405. The generation coming up believes property is an immoral pursuit, they bought ‘you didn’t build this line’ yet everything they have and use, is due to it.

    narciso (330e0d)

  406. No one is saying tribalism can’t win, NJRob, only that it produces poor results. I think Trump won by encouraging tribalism but it is his conservative actions that are winning him support. His MAGA theme is tribal, but he hasn’t carried through on many of those promises like enacting tariffs or taking on Chinese currency issues.

    But Trump has earned praise for enforcing existing immigration laws, cutting federal regulations, and making Gorsuch. Those are conservative actions, not tribal.

    DRJ (15874d)

  407. As were the renaissance city states, Manchester provides some perspective on that.

    narciso (330e0d)

  408. Liberals Love Lynch Mob ‘Justice’

    Nick James, Attorney

    No matter how many times Republicans have stressed the importance of due process, the rule of law, and not rushing to condemn people based on their skin color or gender (e.g., by abolishing slavery, championing women’s right to vote and terminating the Democrats’ reign of racial segregation and terror known as Jim Crow), Democratic elites always find new ways to manipulate voters by appealing to their emotions and playing the race (or gender) card. The recent, cynical maneuvering of Democratic politicians in response to unproven allegations of “groping” or sexual misconduct provide yet another example of how Democrats rush to make judgments based on emotions — and the race and/or gender of the accused — instead of respecting the hallowed principle that everyone should be presumed innocent until proven otherwise.

    Last week, Democrats forced two of their own (Senator Al Franken and Rep. John Conyers) to walk the plank in response to mere allegations of wrongdoing, in a transparent attempt to position their party to try to score political points against President Trump and the GOP. In neither case did a court of law determine that the two politicians had engaged in wrongdoing. Nor did a congressional ethics panel take testimony, gather evidence or make findings. Instead, to appease the appetites of a rabid liberal mob (and out of political expediency), Democrats stripped two of their colleagues of their right to a fair hearing and forced them to resign under a cloud of shame.

    Now, I admit to enjoying a feeling of schadenfreude while watching the pretentious Al Franken get knifed in the back by fellow Democrats given his dishonest hit job on the character of Attorney General Jeff Sessions. What goes around, comes around.

    But farsighted Americans must ask ourselves: If cynical and power-hungry Democratic elites are willing to sacrifice their own colleagues to satiate the liberal mob’s thirst for blood, how will they treat normal, non-privileged Americans if it becomes politically expedient for them to sacrifice our rights to due process and to smear our reputations? (We can glimpse an ominous answer to this question by observing how Democrats have politicized the FBI to attack and bankrupt those people whose political views they disagree with.)

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  409. Drj

    Democracy never had a chance because the timing was poor. Alexander and Persia altered that new growth back.
    http://www.pbs.org/empires/thegreeks/background/48.html

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (3abbdb)

  410. March So 424,

    The young in every generation feel that way (remember how many in our generation wanted to join the Peace Corp?), but they change when they get jobs and start families. The problem with this generation is we are making it easy for them to put off doing those things, but they will eventually.

    DRJ (15874d)

  411. Are Trump supporters anti-democratic?

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (3abbdb)

  412. Sorry, narciso. Auto correct doesn’t know you.

    DRJ (15874d)

  413. Anderson Cooper went off on Trump calling him vile names on Twitter, yet now says he’s been hacked.

    Since these claims aren’t 40 years old, I guess he deserves due process.

    NJRob (b00189)

  414. Are Trump supporters anti-democratic?

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (3abbdb) — 12/13/2017 @ 8:28 am

    I don’t think so, no more than any Democrat who puts their interests first. Why do you ask that?

    DRJ (15874d)

  415. No one is saying tribalism can’t win, NJRob, only that it produces poor results. I think Trump won by encouraging tribalism but it is his conservative actions that are winning him support. His MAGA theme is tribal, but he hasn’t carried through on many of those promises like enacting tariffs or taking on Chinese currency issues.

    But Trump has earned praise for enforcing existing immigration laws, cutting federal regulations, and making Gorsuch. Those are conservative actions, not tribal.

    DRJ (15874d) — 12/13/2017 @ 8:21 am

    You mean he’s actually following the law and letting Congress do their proper constitutional role rather than usurping their authority?

    But he’s the buffoon and Obama was the constitutional scholar and A+ lawyer.

    NJRob (b00189)

  416. The Founders looked at Greece but decided hot blood needed cooling.

    http://www.agathe.gr/democracy/democracy_from_the_past_to_the_future.html

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (3abbdb)

  417. We choose who we consume news from based on many things, but I doubt due process is high on the list.

    DRJ (15874d)

  418. Drj

    Trump exhibits signs of anti-democracy and supporters give him plenty of air.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (3abbdb)

  419. I think Trump is better than Obama, NJRob, but he can do better. There are a lot of problems that need to be addressed, and the golden first year of his Presidency with a GOP Congress is almost over. A lot of it has been wasted.

    DRJ (15874d)

  420. Trump is a hot mess, Ben, but I think he cares too much about his daily press and too little about results.

    DRJ (15874d)

  421. Anderson Cooper went off on Trump calling him vile names on Twitter, yet now says he’s been hacked

    You condemn him without due process..

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (3abbdb)

  422. Yes, I see your point now, Ben. That’s why we are a Republic and not a democracy.

    DRJ (15874d)

  423. DRJ,

    regarding your remarks about tribalism the problem is that if one side engages in tribalism and the other does not, the tribe will win.

    As for it not working, the Han will disagree.

    NJRob (b00189)

  424. NJRob, at 442:

    part of the problem right now is that there are substantial voices in both sides who are arguing that their side *must* be tribal because otherwise the other side will win by being tribal while the first side isn’t.

    You seem to me to be implying that the Republicans have to be tribal because otherwise the Democrats will win by being tribal, but I argue with Democrats all the time who are saying that Democrats have to be tribal because otherwise the Republicans will win by being tribal.

    But that mutually assured tribalism *destroys* societies.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  425. NJRob, at 442:

    part of the problem right now is that there are substantial voices in both sides who are arguing that their side *must* be tribal because otherwise the other side will win by being tribal while the first side isn’t.

    You seem to me to be implying that the Republicans have to be tribal because otherwise the Democrats will win by being tribal, but I argue with Democrats all the time who are saying that Democrats have to be tribal because otherwise the Republicans will win by being tribal.

    But that mutually assured tribalism *destroys* societies.

    aphrael (3f0569) — 12/13/2017 @ 8:43 am

    I agree.

    NJRob (b00189)

  426. But regimes devolve as Athens became the council of 300, and Rome into its triumvirate, faction is inevitable and not necessarily fatal

    narciso (330e0d)

  427. Our founders understood that tribalism destroys. They didn’t support political parties and they did support e pluribus unum. Unfortunately, our education system which is controlled by people that hate our nation destroyed that belief.

    I don’t see any way to recover.

    NJRob (b00189)

  428. We’re a Democratic Republic still carrying a torch for Classes like the Aristocracy, Drj.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (3abbdb)

  429. We have proof against Kennedy and the Clintons. You’d have been better off using Obama as your target.

    Moore was removed from the bench for his actions. Then the people put him back there.

    Lawyers do not have a special superior access to understanding the law and interpreting it. They are not philosopher kings.

    NJRob (b00189) — 12/13/2017 @ 8:03 am

    OK, use Obama if you prefer. And Moore is a good example of my point because Alabama voters decided and they said No.

    I agree lawyers should not run society but the Rule of Law is an important part of why we have succeeded as a nation. It is incumbent on citizens to understand the role of law and morality in that success. I think most people understand and respect the important principles of the Rule of Law. They come to places like Patterico.com to help them understand legal topics over the years.

    I believe in Americans and most are very law-abiding. If we have any failing, I think it is in morality and not respect for the law. We have lost our families because of no-fault divorce and the pregnancies/abortions that went with the sexual revolution. We don’t go to church or believe in religion, which support morality. We stopped believing citizens have moral responsibilities and decided our only responsibilities are to promote our personal happiness. Trump is the poster boy for where we are as a nation. It’s not surprising he won but those traits won’t get us where we need to go.

    DRJ (15874d)

  430. > I don’t see any way to recover.

    > controlled by people that hate our nation

    *Choosing* to step back and look for reasons *other* than “hatred of our nation” why people might have chosen to pursue policies with which you disagree would be a good place to start.

    Rhetoric like this deepens tribal divisions and adds to the problem, and it’s a choice to use this rhetoric and it’s a choice to think about other people this way.

    No one individual making a different choice is enough to stem the tide. But it *can* be a small pebble that contributes to an avalanche.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  431. Of course we can recover, NJRob. As long as we are thinking beings, and God, there is always hope!

    DRJ (15874d)

  432. Of course we can recover, NJRob. As long as we are thinking beings, and God, there is always hope!

    DRJ (15874d) — 12/13/2017 @ 8:54 am

    I’ll pray that you are right, but you must remember that this worldy kingdom is not for Him. We make our own beds and I see people turning their back on Him to bask in narcissism and hate.

    I would like to regain my hope for the future.

    NJRob (b00189)

  433. I blame Sessions. His ambition to be AG led US to where we are today. He wanted a job he knew, or should have known, he’d be too conflicted to be effective.

    crazy (d99a88)

  434. *Choosing* to step back and look for reasons *other* than “hatred of our nation” why people might have chosen to pursue policies with which you disagree would be a good place to start.

    Rhetoric like this deepens tribal divisions and adds to the problem, and it’s a choice to use this rhetoric and it’s a choice to think about other people this way.

    No one individual making a different choice is enough to stem the tide. But it *can* be a small pebble that contributes to an avalanche.

    aphrael (3f0569) — 12/13/2017 @ 8:53 am

    It’s reality. The poison flows from the “education system.” It needs to be purged.

    “Give me four years to teach the children and the seed I have sown will never be uprooted.”

    NJRob (b00189)

  435. Vouchers, NJRob. Push Trump hard to support vouchers and watch how quickly America can change.

    DRJ (15874d)

  436. We didn’t just dodge a bullet, we dodged a missile,” added a senior Republican strategist, in an interview with the Washington Examiner, requesting anonymity in order to speak candidly. “If Moore had won, our candidates would have spent the next 11 months being forced to react to every crazy thing he said and did.”

    But Trump…

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (3abbdb)

  437. Vouchers, NJRob. Push Trump hard to support vouchers and watch how quickly America can change.

    DRJ (15874d) — 12/13/2017 @ 9:09 am

    These are the things we need to focus on rather than the infighting. Our energies would be better used together on common goals.

    Still waiting for the higher education system to collapse due to their insane costs and crippling debt. That’s needed. Too many parents have sent their 18 year old kids to college as sane, responsible people and returned to them as angry, bigoted SJW’s.

    NJRob (b00189)

  438. Recount…

    Ain’t it just like Moore to not take no for an answer?

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (3abbdb)

  439. When the house bill came up, there was nary a mention about vouchers, also robin has pointed out as long as the curriculum is not knowledge based we have a problem.

    narciso (330e0d)

  440. Consider this a foreshadowing of Trump’s re-election campaign. I very much hope there’s a meaningful primary opponent.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  441. Dustin,

    I try to ignore you, then you just spout lies.

    He was a 32 year old that dated teens in an area where I expect every 20-something was already married. He also married a woman over a decade his junior and has been married to her for over 30 years without incident. He’s lived a public, God-fearing life as an outspoken Christian who understands that our nation is made for “a moral and virtuous people and wholly unfit for any other.”

    But you don’t care.

    A candidate that didn’t support your version of Republicanism was defeated. That’s a success, right?

    NJRob (b00189) — 12/13/2017 @ 7:26 am

    “He was a 32 year old that dated teens”

    That’s what I said. Your calling this a lie is simply projection. I think he’s creepy. The voters agreed.

    “He’s lived a public, God-fearing life as an outspoken Christian who understands that our nation is made for “a moral and virtuous people and wholly unfit for any other.”

    But you don’t care.”

    And that’s a bumper sticker.

    Try being a little less dramatic. You’ll be a happier person.

    “A candidate that didn’t support your version of Republicanism was defeated. That’s a success, right?”

    I’m not a republican. The Republican party has completely abandoned freedom, a balanced budget, and common sense government. For you, a die hard Trump fan, to actually preach religion in government at me is appalling and hilarious at the same time. But there’s no reasoning with you. Anything you don’t like is ‘fake news’ or ‘lie!’. I can picture your eyes bugging out of your head all day. You seem to think I care whether a democrat or a republican wins. Why should I when you republicans clearly hate my guts so much, and call the truth a lie?

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  442. Trump can be pressured but it is the infighting that gets his attention, with the winner getting his support. Trump likes people who battle for what they want. He also likes Fox & Friends, so it will also help to pressure Fox News to schedule voucher proponents on its morning programs.

    DRJ (15874d)

  443. I very much hope there’s a meaningful primary opponent.

    Kevin M

    It would be nice. But read the nuts like NJ Rob and imagine what the primary will be like. “lyin Ted has an ugly wife” times 10,000. But if Alabama can see the light, perhaps there’s a little hope.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  444. Has an incumbent President ever been successfully primaried?

    I mean, I understand that in the age of Trump, precedent is somewhat limited in its predictive capacity. But I still think a successful primary is an incredibly tough challenge.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  445. @446 NJRob Our founders understood that tribalism destroys. They didn’t support political parties and they did support e pluribus unum. Unfortunately, our education system which is controlled by people that hate our nation destroyed that belief. [Para.] I don’t see any way to recover. [Emphasis added]

    How very sad for you, to hold such beliefs. How very very sad and dismal. I truly hope you can find honest simple joy in other parts of your life.

    Q! (86710c)

  446. Unprovable? Moore admitted enough of it.

    Dustin (ba94b2) — 12/13/2017 @ 7:23 am

    What did he admit Dustin? Go ahead. I’ll wait.

    I do find it interesting that you feel the need to engage me over and over again. Feelings of inadequacy I guess.

    Not surprised.

    Your name calling will be ignored as per usual though.

    NJRob (b00189)

  447. I truly hope you can find honest simple joy in other parts of your life.

    Q! (86710c) — 12/13/2017 @ 9:28 am

    Thank you. I do.

    NJRob (b00189)

  448. What did he admit Dustin? Go ahead. I’ll wait.

    Not sure what you’re waiting for. Read my comment again a little more slowly. He was a mid thirties professional hitting on teenagers who hadn’t even graduated from high school. He’s a degenerate creep. This isn’t in controversy as Moore admitted it and seems pretty proud of himself for being so creepy.

    You think you’re clever to just ignore points like that and insinuate some dishonest conspiracy but you’re not clever at all. You’re just a miserable partisan and an enemy of my country, like Trump.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  449. In the Leigh Corfman “pedophilia” case, the Washington Post should not have somehow found out about three other women (only telling of a date maybe) at the same time, when none of them knew each other.

    And they shouldn’t have found out even about her about her if she didn’t tell them, or anyone else (she supposedly did not want it to get out and only consented on the condition they find other women.)

    Now, does this make any sense? That it would happen? If it’s all or mostly false allegations its easy to explain. Spies don’t get so lucky.
    8 or for the dumpster being kept far enough away from the walls of the building so that a car could be parked between the dumpster and teh wall – others said according to the Moore campaign, that there were <b? two dumpsters, on the side and not in the back, and flush against the door so that workers could throw garbage into them without having too step outside

    9) or for the probably non-existent back exit of the parking lot into the next street – the Moore campaign said there were backyards of houses behind the parking lot and probably no exit to the street – but therw is no corroboration of the exit anyway

    10) Or for the restaurant closing on any day at 10 pm – in fact there is corroboration, in the form of ads which ran in the Gadsden Times at the beginning of January, 1978 that it closed every day at 11pm – Now maybe those were new hours, but the Jan 2 ad didn’t say so

    11) Or the sheer irrationality of trying to rape her without driving to an isolated spot far away, (but she needed that to be true to explain how her escape attracted no notice – she didn’t have to tell anyone)

    12> Or her explanation about planning to call her boyfriend after Roy Moore would drive her home – what do you mean she was planning to call him after she got home? – he didn’t have a cellphone either and he probably wouldn’t be home to take the call.

    12) Or the car door locks – so he was reaching over her and pinning her down while trying to pull off her shirt and preventing her from opening the door, which the lock doesn’t prevent.,

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73)

  450. Not sure what you’re waiting for. Read my comment again a little more slowly. He was a mid thirties professional hitting on teenagers who hadn’t even graduated from high school. He’s a degenerate creep. This isn’t in controversy as Moore admitted it and seems pretty proud of himself for being so creepy.

    You think you’re clever to just ignore points like that and insinuate some dishonest conspiracy but you’re not clever at all. You’re just a miserable partisan and an enemy of my country, like Trump.

    Dustin (ba94b2) — 12/13/2017 @ 9:38 am

    Glad you’re finally being clear as to your accusations. So you aren’t calling him a pedophile or rapist as others on here have. Thanks for the clarification.

    NJRob (b00189)

  451. Dustin @ 467. If hitting on – and not quite that – on girls who had not yet graduated from high school, was all they had, it wouldn’t have been enough. He could have been fully interested in finding a bride and that would not be a killer issue. So it looks like they invented more.

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73)

  452. Glad the Amazon widget is back. Even when I disagree with Patterico, he allows the discussion.

    Hopefully the 2 purchases will show in his file.

    NJRob (b00189)

  453. Has an incumbent President ever been successfully primaried?

    LBJ, who dropped out after Eugene McCarthy handed him his head in NH.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  454. More taxes for California.

    And, of course, to assess the mileage tax they’ll have to track your driving. The power to tax is the power to intrude and surveil, as demonstrated for years by the IRS.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  455. CNN and the Washington post have been caught lying four times this week.

    narciso (330e0d)

  456. NJRob,

    Roy Moore’s interview was a trainwreck. He would not deny dating teenage girls in high school when he was in his 30’s. As we all kniw, I’m naive so I believe he was looking for a wife. He eventually found one and they’ve been married for over 30 years, and I believe he has been faithful to her. He is moral and Christian in that sense, but wanting to date and marry someone so young troubles me. It suggests he has control issues and his actions as a judge confirm that. It’s why he was suspended.

    DRJ (15874d)

  457. The story of the thwarted rape of Beverly Young Nelson has a lot of problems.

    Like:

    1) Roy Moore not in fact being the District Attorney of Etowah County. And, no, deputy district attorney is not close enough. There’s no evidence he, or anyone else, ever called himself the district attorney and a lot of evidence to the contrary; even if he did he would not use that title in writing; nor it is too likely he would threaten her with the “fact:” that he was the District Attorney, or if he had done that, that she would not point to that claim as evidence of how deceptive Roy Moore was.

    2) Beverly Young Nelson not realizing, even after all these years, that Roy Moore never was the District Attorney of Etowah County, when she should have been following carefully every step in his career, especially when she repeatedly discussed this with her sister, too, starting two years after it allegedly happened…at the press conference Nov 13 she has that as fact and never corrected it as far as I know, even when she admitted adding something to the signature.

    3) The addition of the letters “DA” to his name, where the DA looks like the initials Delbra Adams wrote when she signed or stamped Roy Moore’s name when she was his legal secretary circa 1990-2003.

    4) Etowah County being misspelled twice, in two different ways by Gloria Allred in the digital version of Beverly Young Nelson’s prepared statement, once as “Elowah County” and once as “Etiwah County” And no this is not an accident – it’s designed to defeat a Nexis Lexis fact check by national reporters so they shouldn’t discover that Roy Moore was not in fact, ever, the District Attorney of Etowah County.

    5) No corroboration of the assumed fact that she worked at the Olde Hickory House restaurant in 1977.

    6) or that Roy Moore was a regular customer for at least two or three months at the end of 1977,

    7) or for the absence of lights in part of the area outside the restaurant,

    8 – or for the closing hours of the restaurant being 10 pm on at least one day of the week – in fact in fact there is corroboration to the contrary, in the form of ads which ran in the Gadsden Times at the beginning of January, 1978 that it closed every day at 11pm.

    https://twitter.com/billineastala/status/930519160123248640?lang=en

    Now maybe those were new hours, but the Jan 2, 1978 ad didn’t say so.

    9) or for “the” dumpster being kept far enough away from the walls of the building so that a car could be parked between the dumpster and the wall of the building. Others said, according to the Moore campaign, that there were two dumpsters, on the sides and not in the back, and flush against the door so that workers could throw garbage into them without having to step outside.

    10) or for the probably non-existent back exit of the parking lot into the next street – the Moore campaign said there were backyards of houses behind the parking lot and probably no exit to the street – but therew is no corroboration of the exit anyway.

    11) Then there’s the sheer irrationality of trying to rape her without driving to an isolated spot far away, (but she needed that to be true to explain how her escape attracted no notice – she didn’t have to tell anyone that way)

    12> Or her explanation about planning to call her boyfriend after Roy Moore would drive her home. What do you mean she was planning to call him after she got home? – he didn’t have a cellphone either and he probably wouldn’t be home to take the call!

    13) Or the car door locks. So he was reaching over her and pinning her down while trying to pull off her shirt and preventing her from opening the door, which the lock doesn’t prevent.

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73)

  458. Finally, for the record, I hope Patterico or Dana will post on the emerging Strzok email story. I’d like to read about it and discuss it. But, frankly, I bet almost everyone here would condemn the people involved and raise questions about the impartiality of Mueller’s investigation. After the appropriate strum und drang hyperventilating, we’ll move on since ultimately there won’t be that much to discuss. I doubt many, if anyone, will defend Mueller, Strzok or his email partner.

    DRJ (15874d)

  459. Or guys that suggest a junta like ConDave…

    Liar.

    Dave (445e97)

  460. DRJ–

    It’s more than that.

    * It is that there is not a single person on the Mueller team that did not sign up to “get” Trump.
    * It is that Flynn’s guilty plea (lying to Strzok) was made without Flynn’s attorney being informed of Strzok’s malfeasance.
    * It is that Strzok has a history here, ignoring multiple lies by Hillary’s staff regarding serious felonies, but nailing Flynn for a lie that did not relate to any crime.

    And likely much more.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  461. That is likely true. I’m sure a lot more will be revealed about improper actions and cover ups, and I hope this will be the start of uncovering them and making them transparent for everyone to see. Transparency is where change comes from, and the point to me isn’t the anger but the change.

    DRJ (15874d)

  462. The real arguments should be about how to change things to fix this problem without creating more problems. There will never be a perfect fix but we can try.

    DRJ (15874d)

  463. To me, the best fix is transparency.

    DRJ (15874d)

  464. The USA Today editorial board certainly isn’t holding anything back:

    A president who would all but call Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand a whore is not fit to clean the toilets in the Barack Obama Presidential Library or to shine the shoes of George W. Bush.
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2017/12/12/trump-lows-ever-hit-rock-bottom-editorials-debates/945947001/

    Tillman (a95660)

  465. I bet almost everyone here would condemn the people involved

    Unless there is evidence that their personal views led them to do something unlawful or unethical in their professional duties, there is nothing to condemn.

    What they are accused of, in effect, is thoughtcrime. But in our country, government employees, like Donald Trump, for instance, are allowed to have, and, yes, even express, personal opinions. All they are required to do is obey the law.

    In the excerpt I’ve read, they criticized Trump for saying Putin wasn’t a killer. Any honest, thinking person would do the same (also remember that Strzok was a Russia intelligence specialist with extensive knowledge of the facts Trump was ignorantly denying).

    I find it pretty scary that private messages exchanged between two people in a close personal relationship are the subject of a thoughtcrime investigation by the government. Could we please see all text and other messages exchanged between Trump, Kushner, Trump Jr. and Ivanka for the last 2.5 years?

    Dave (445e97)

  466. @ NJRob: Your support of Roy Moore, and your insults and snide language toward those who’ve challenged his fitness here, persuades me that there is nothing further you could possibly say which merits the time I might spend in the future reading your stuff. So I won’t be hereafter. I mention it only to prevent you from thinking me rude in the future if I fail to respond to something you try to write here to, or about, me: I won’t be rude in refusing to respond — rather, I will be unaware. I wouldn’t want you or anyone else to think that I care enough about what you think to bother to be rude.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  467. CNN and the Washington post have been caught lying four times this week.

    So you believe they knew the information was incorrect when they published it? Do you even think about the nonsense you post?

    What would be the point of intentionally publishing something incorrect, and then issuing a correction to it within a matter of hours?

    Dave (445e97)

  468. @485 Maybe it’s on the wrong thread Dave, but that’s a terrific comment on the Strzok nothingburger.

    Tillman (a95660)

  469. Dave,

    As a law enforcement officer and a lawyer, they can have personal opinions but they can’t do anything that casts doubt on their impartiality in a particular investigation. You can’t say Trump is an idiot if there is a chance you will be investigating him. Strzok and Harper should have declined any role in Mueller’s investigation.

    It’s reasonable to expect investigators to not already hate their targets, especially in government investigations. If that means they can’t express opinions about potential political targets, that’s the cost of working for the government … and for the military. This has been the case for military personnel for a long time.

    DRJ (15874d)

  470. Maybe it’s on the wrong thread Dave, but that’s a terrific comment on the Strzok nothingburger.

    I didn’t notice that a dedicated thread had started.

    Dave (445e97)

  471. Happy 92nd Birthday to Dick Van Dyke!

    Icy (c18855)

  472. It was reported that the emails came to light as part of an FOIA request. If so, then they may have sent them from their government email addresses. That should show, right there, that these were improper government communications and not mere lovers’ notes.

    DRJ (15874d)

  473. DaveCon1 !!!!!

    Colonel Haiku (c8a9e1)

  474. Posted for Truth:

    What I marvel at is that the joint Unity Party, comprised of a cartel of Left-Right corrupt establishment individuals & organizations, were so scared of “a Moore”, that they reverted to some of the most dishonest and overwhelming use of political assassination tactics ever witnessed in a LOCAL STATE ELECTION. Think about it: In one month’s time, TENS of MILLIONS were spent to defeat ONE PERSON. How weak is the corrupt establishment and their global partners that they have to unify their organizations to vaporize an individual’s life, personality, and soul? For all who supported them in this criminal endeavor, take your scalp, you have greatly earned it. Sure was might mighty impressive. And we wonder why we will NEVER get our DEBT under CONTROL.

    So does congress and the Left-Right corrupt establishment Unity Party continue with a slush fund for KNOWN SEXUAL DEVIANTS? I mean they just took out with unverified & false accusations, (and in fact,) with a proven forged document, an ex-DA and ex Federal Judge. Again, all taken care of in a month. Yet they continue to have sitting congress-people who have dipped into a tax-payer supported slush fund for defending or paying out proven and known US Congress sex harassers/offenders.

    In the end there is a cast of thousands that “soft” “cute” and “cuddly” Senator-Elect, Doug Jones, has to thank for his stunning win. Some of those thousands are as follows (please hold your applause until the end):

    ** Mitch McConnell for his support.
    ** The GOP elites for their $500,000 in financial support
    ** The GOP elites in Washington DC
    ** Republican Senator Shelby for his last minute announcement to vote against the Republican candidate
    ** FOX News and FBN elites.
    ** The Washington Post for their 38 year-old forged and unsubstantiated sexual scandal
    ** Matt Drudge and The Drudge Report for his refusal to report on any news that would hurt the Democrat candidate
    ** Democrat media — For the constant attacks against Judge Roy Moore
    ** Democrat media — For their refusal to report on Doug Jones positions
    ** Obama – For his robo-calls to the African-American voters of Alabama, yet he never lifted a finger to help the inner cities or the black communities throughout America.
    ** Charles Barkley- For convincing Alabama voters that to believe in God and be in support of abortion or gay marriage, is what Christianity is “really about”
    ** Saul Alinsky for rebranding the Salem Witch trials’ “justice” into a modern political tactic
    ** Greg Gutless Gutfeld

    ****APPLAUSE TRACK HERE****

    oh and lets not forget this gem of a “donation”:

    Highway 31, which has dropped more than $4.1 million in support of Jones and against Roy Moore ahead of Tuesday’s Senate special election, is a joint project of two of the largest national Democratic super PACs — Senate Majority PAC and Priorities USA Action — along with a group of Alabama Democrats, multiple senior officials familiar with the arrangement told POLITICO.

    Politico reported on Monday that the George Soros-funded Priorities USA Action and Sen. Chuck Schumer’s (D-NY) Senate Majority PAC are the dark money behind the Alabama shell group, Highway 31, that has spent more than $4.1 million to defeat conservative Republican Roy Moore.

    Welcome to Salem.

    no, it’s more like: Welcome to Brussels.

    …no let’s get real while we’re at it: welcome to Moscow.

    cheers and goodnight Amerika. Bill Ayers, Bernardine Dohrn and Pres. Obama are going to sleep real comfortably tonight.

    ****REPLAY APPLAUSE TRACK HERE****

    Where Eagles Dare (30c9de)

  475. I really don’t see the difference between this and Lois Lerner, Tillman, except we know Lerner acted on her beliefs. We don’t know that here but it’s certainly possible given Strzok’s tinkering with the wording in Hillary’s case.

    DRJ (15874d)

  476. Someone is channeling his inner mullah.

    Colonel Haiku (c8a9e1)

  477. I consider the “tribalist” argument fallacious and manipulative (not to use stronger words):
    — You’re on the wrong side.
    — What do you want me to do?
    — Preferably join our side, but if not, leave yours.
    — I like my side and what it stands for; I don’t want to abandon my fellows to your mercies; and, furthermore, go soak your head.
    — Tribalist!

    nk (dbc370)

  478. “Call it a clan, call it a network, call it a tribe, call it a family. Whatever you call it, whoever you are, you need one.”
    —- Jane Howard (biographer of Margaret Mead)

    Tribalism in and of itself does not have to be destructive; it is an integral part of any society. Avoiding its baser manifestations is accomplished through strong institutions…for example, our legal system, religion, etc. They are the glue that bind us. But when one cannot count on those institutions, it becomes a bug instead of a feature. I believe that is what is happening now; for example, there is clear evidence of a two-tiered legal system. When our institutions were stronger, even just 30 years ago, we didn’t have the rank partisanship we do today.

    I have been pessimistic as to our ability to right the ship what with today’s outsize influence of federal government on all our institutions. Therefore we should all applaud the pace of confirmations of circuit and appeals court judges by the Senate. Say what you will of McConnell, but he’s getting this right.

    Lenny (5ea732)

  479. Heh. Take it up with VDH, nk!

    DRJ (15874d)

  480. The ultimate and most important tribe is the family, nk and Lenny. Political tribes are not much different than gangs that want to take the family’s place. Families are supportive and offer guidance and shelter to help the family members succeed. Political tribes and gangs are in it for themselves.

    DRJ (15874d)

  481. DRJ, I think that Dave gave an exceptional defense of someone’s political beliefs, that’s all. If Strzok has acted in a biased way, that’s one thing. But let’s convict him on thought crime alone.

    Let’s turn this on its head: if Strzok was an avid Trump supporter, would he be in hot water in this situation? No, but that might affect his work too. So I think that people will have their political beliefs, and Tramp is polarizing, so there isn’t much middle ground there. You love him or you hate him – so no one can work on the case because they’re biased?

    Tillman (a95660)

  482. But let’s not convict him on thought crime alone.

    Tillman (a95660)

  483. Kevin M, at 473: thank you. That’s a good point.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  484. I’m torn on a mileage tax.

    Gas taxes are *in effect* a proxy for road use, but they’re a *bad* proxy, and they’re getting worse as people shift towards cars that consume less gas. A hybrid does as much damage to the road as a gas guzzler, but the hybrid owner pays way less in gas taxes.

    At the same time, there’s a massive invasion of personal privacy involved in a lot of the mileage tax solutions I see proposed. I think one *can* be implemented without being invasive, but I am skeptical that they *will* be.

    aphrael (e0cdc9)

  485. There’s another tribe we’ve been seeing a lot of recently, the Blue Tribe. The police getting away with murder with the help of their auxiliaries, police and prosecutors; with phony investigations designed to cover up evidence instead of collect it; and with phony trials with rigged evidence and rigged juries. That tribe I would like to treat the way Van Buren treated the Cherokees, because I don’t think I can ever talk its members into leaving it.

    nk (dbc370)

  486. LBJ, who dropped out after Eugene McCarthy handed him his head in NH.

    It’s been kind of lost to history, but LBJ actually beat McCarthy in the New Hampshire Primary, in the same way that George H.W. Bush beat Pat Buchanan in the 1992 New Hampshire Primary. But of course the narrow margin of victory for Johnson (48% – 42%) was treated by the media and by the insurgents within the party as a LBJ loss. In much the same way, Bush’s 53% – 37% victory over Buchanan signaled to that the GOP was deeply divided and kind of paved the way for the Perot third-party run.

    JVW (42615e)

  487. DRJ,

    I agree that the most important tribe is family, but I don’t agree that political tribes are like gangs. nk describes my take on it at 496. The founders set up checks/balances knowing human nature.

    Lenny (5ea732)

  488. Oops!

    help of their auxiliaries, police judges and prosecutors

    nk (dbc370)

  489. 504 nk – that’s an example of when a tribe goes rogue…should be an institution we can count on.

    Lenny (5ea732)

  490. They should now move quickly to force Trump from office and ride the resulting wave of public gratitude to victory in next year’s midterm elections.

    Dave (ce8574) — 12/12/2017 @ 7:55 pm

    Or guys that suggest a junta like ConDave…

    Liar.

    Dave (445e97) — 12/13/2017 @ 10:26 am

    jun·ta
    ˈho͝on(t)ə/
    noun
    1.
    a military or political group that rules a country after taking power by force.

    Come again DaveCon1.

    NJRob (c3af29)

  491. Your support of Roy Moore, and your insults and snide language toward those who’ve challenged his fitness here, persuades me that there is nothing further you could possibly say which merits the time I might spend in the future reading your stuff. So I won’t be hereafter. I mention it only to prevent you from thinking me rude in the future if I fail to respond to something you try to write here to, or about, me: I won’t be rude in refusing to respond — rather, I will be unaware. I wouldn’t want you or anyone else to think that I care enough about what you think to bother to be rude.

    Beldar (fa637a) — 12/13/2017 @ 11:00 am

    Your choice. Have a good day.

    NJRob (c3af29)

  492. As you pointed out just above, it is natural for the police to want to close ranks and protect their own. It is their civilian overseers who are letting the public down with inadequate oversight; judges who treat them with kid gloves; and prosecutors who not only protect them but also train them how to testilie (sic) because they would not win any of their cases without the police tilting their testimony and the evidence in the prosecution’s favor.

    nk (dbc370)

  493. My 511 was for Lenny.

    nk (dbc370)

  494. In other news, top minds Chuck “Floorsh*tter” Johnson and Mike “Pizzagate” Cernovich tried to forge a harassment complaint against Chuck Schumer, and now the police are involved.

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  495. a military or political group that rules a country after taking power by force.

    Forcing someone from office (by constitutional means) is not “taking power by force”.

    Or is it your position that the lawful impeachment of Bill Clinton was a thwarted coup d’etat?

    Dave (445e97)

  496. Or guys that suggest a junta like ConDave…

    To repeat: Liar.

    Dave (445e97)

  497. DaveCon1,

    Now you’re adding Constitutional means to your claim. How cute. You didn’t have those get in your way earlier in your rush to remove the Constitutionally elected President from office.

    Break a few eggs. I know.

    Con.

    Just create high crimes and misdemeanors and poof, a nice junta appears.

    Con.

    But you do defend those leftist enforcers who are trying to do what you wish. Very CONservative of you. Carry on.

    NJRob (c3af29)

  498. Should have used fusion gaps, they ran interference for planned parenthood, theranos and the caballis camarilla in caracas

    narciso (d1f714)

  499. Now you’re adding Constitutional means to your claim.

    I never excluded it. You claimed I did. Liar.

    Dave (445e97)

  500. Leave it to the front page of da Noo Yawk Daily Nooz to put a period at the end of this thread:

    http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/new-york-daily-news-front-pages-gallery-1.2943303?pmSlide=1.3694937

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  501. Unless there is evidence that their personal views led them to do something unlawful or unethical in their professional duties, there is nothing to condemn.

    Oh, I’d condemn them for doing something unlawful of unethical whether or not their personal views led them to it.

    For example, Strzok ignoring Huma’s multiple lies to the FBI about felonious mishandling of TOP SECRET documents, each of which is worth years in prison, yet nailing Flynn on a lie about something that was perfectly legal (the prospective National Security advisor meeting with diplomats).

    Kevin M (752a26)

  502. So you believe they knew the information was incorrect when they published it? Do you even think about the nonsense you post?

    Did they KNOW? Probably not. Did they care? Also probably not. It was a SCOOP that made Trump look bad, and they ran with it. Had it been the same level of vetting against Obama or Hillary, or even Franken, they would have held off.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  503. @521 …and the horse he rode in on.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cz6fKjtQ1zI

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  504. But of course the narrow margin of victory for Johnson (48% – 42%) was treated by the media and by the insurgents within the party as a LBJ loss

    Which is why I said “handed him his head” — the performance by a sitting president was TERRIBLE and I’m sure Johnson’s internal polling showed him just how really terrible it was.

    Three were two other recent cases where a sitting president faced meaningful primaries (1976 and 1980), where Ford and Carter faced opposition from Reagan and Teddy respectively. Both managed to squeak through their convention, but the votes were close and only held due to delegate bindings — had the delegates been free to choose they probably would have selected Reagan in 1976 or Kennedy in 1980.

    Both failed to win a second term.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  505. Buchanan’s feat in NH was not duplicated elsewhere and the challenge faded. Bush Sr had an overwhelming majority at the convention.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  506. “Republicans” like Dave and the Democrats (birm) refuse to accept the 2016 election and will do ANYTHING AT ALL to avoid the peaceful transfer of power. Lie, cheat, steal, bear false witness, corrupt justice — they don’t care so long as the end is achieved.

    Sadly, the collateral damage to the Republic that they would accept is far worse than anything Trump might do. When the Senate delays every single vote, for every last possible second, in order to prevent Trump from appointing his choices to take over the agencies the entire concept of a peaceful transfer is ruined. When the Democrat holdovers do every last thing they can to ratfuk the administration, to “investigate”, to confuse, and to cause all possible harm, the two century-old tradition of peaceful transfer is laid waste.

    This is the new normal. The process that began with Reid’s filibusters (if not with the Bork fiasco), and continued with the GOP’s return of serve now extends to every remaining comity rule in the Senate.

    Up to now, it’s been a courtesy to allow the opposition time for debate on nominations they found troubling. Even though they won’t win the vote, they get some time to speak. But when they take the maximum time on every nominee — even those from their own party, or even career appointments — they sow seeds then will rue planting. It took SIX MONTHS to approve the Ambassador to the Vatican, for God’s sakes, even though no one had a real problem with Mrs Gingrich (and some wish to see Newt overseas).

    This will not end well. Not only will the filibuster disappear entirely soon, but so will all the other considerations for deliberation and debate. When assh0les game the rules, the rules change. Cue the whining.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  507. https://cpj.org/reports/2017/12/journalists-prison-jail-record-number-turkey-china-egypt.php

    Fake NEWS Propagandists wet tidy-whites in ecstasy.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (f67fa2)

  508. There’s tribalism then there’s tribalism

    Don’t recall the names, but Anthropologists observed two tribes which arose from the same gene pool. Controversy split them over one issue regardless of their having identical cultures….some decided to wear ear piercings on the Left ear rather the traditional right. Scores died over the years.

    Imagine what Crackers face.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (f67fa2)

  509. Come again DaveCon1.

    NJRob (c3af29) — 12/13/2017 @ 12:10 pm

    NJRob (c3af29)

  510. What is taking Doug Jones so long to win the Nobel Peace Prize?

    mg (60b0f7)

  511. No worries mg. Your worldview has lots of padding and tie-downs.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (f67fa2)

  512. Sessions trades a senate seat for the opportunity to be the worst attorney general in U.S. history.
    We were intercoursed on purpose.

    mg (60b0f7)

  513. “Republicans” like Dave and the Democrats (birm) refuse to accept the 2016 election and will do ANYTHING AT ALL to avoid the peaceful transfer of power. Lie, cheat, steal, bear false witness, corrupt justice — they don’t care so long as the end is achieved.

    I’m a former Republican (changed to Independent in June 2016, after 35 years). Please don’t falsely associate me with Donald Trump.

    And that’s quite a slanderous list of accusations, considering that I’ve done nothing more than post comments on a web log.

    Dave (445e97)

  514. I admit it’s unsporting to argue with someone whom I’ve just added to my blocking script and intend to ignore hereafter. But there’s a quote from NJRob earlier in this thread (#385) that has been haunting my thoughts all afternoon, and I just want to point it out to the people who read and/or comment here who actually do have a moral compass:

    He [Moore] was a 32 year old that dated teens in an area where I expect every 20-something was already married.

    First of all, this says a lot about NJRob’s “expectations,” but it’s a statistic he pulled out of his small bowel. In fact, the median age of first marriages for women in Alabama from 2005-2009 was 25.3, meaning that half of the women being married for the first time were 25+, which in turn means that there are — and surely there were — plenty of unmarried women close to Moore’s age when he was 32. So the statement is factually indefensible crap to begin with.

    But think about what that statement necessarily implied: Suppose the statement were true, and that there were an insufficient number — however we’re going to define “insufficient” — of suitably aged women for a 32-year-old public servant to date.

    What kind of immoral scum would conclude from that fact, even if true, that it’s therefore okay and justifiable for that 32-year-old public servant to date young teens half his age or less?

    Talk about your Harvey Weinstein presumptions of entitlement. NJRob apparently still believes in droit du seigneur, the feudal doctrine which held that the sovereign could have sexual relations with his female subjects — including and especially the very young and virginal ones, even and especially on their wedding nights — at the sovereign’s whim.

    I want nothing to do in the future with anyone who could write such a thing. It is wrong, it is immoral, and it is inappropriate for a 32-year-old man to be dating young teens, period, full stop. Listening to Moore supporters try to defend this literally turns my stomach. If you really believe that middle-aged men may appropriately date young teens, you should move to a country governed by Sharia law.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  515. (Link for my stat above.)

    Beldar (fa637a)

  516. ConDave done gone DaveCon1.

    Colonel Haiku (c8a9e1)

  517. Have we finally reached Peak Trump Enabling?

    Their tank is not yet empty.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (f67fa2)

  518. I know that Patterico eschews elected office for himself, but is there anyone who captures his imagination?

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (f67fa2)

  519. The past is another country: They do things differently there.

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  520. And we have Dennis Hastert :

    Former US House Speaker Dennis Hastert is banned from having contact with anyone under 18 unless an adult is present who’s aware that he pleaded guilty in a hush money case related to the sexual abuse of teen boys, according to new restrictions imposed by a federal judge.

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/13/us/dennis-hastert-restrictions-children/index.html

    Maybe all the men over 18 were married NJRob .

    Tillman (a95660)

  521. He was a wrestling coach, easy prey for blackmail due to demonstrating technique.

    urbanleftbehind (9240ed)

  522. What is taking Doug Jones so long to win the Nobel Peace Prize?

    The Oscars come up first. Nobels aren’t until the fall.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  523. Maybe all the men over 18 were married NJRob .

    Yet Gary Studds (D-MA) was re-elected to the House for more than a decade after he got caught with his, um, hand in the Congressional pageboy cookie jar. The one he got caught with was 17.

    His constituents in Boston had no problem with it. I guess the older pages were all hooked up with Senators.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  524. He was a wrestling coach, easy prey for blackmail due to demonstrating technique.

    Buck-naked Greco-Roman wrestling over direct democracy or….teh Republicans of Rome

    Sorry for the drama but this has been the best day in some time.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (f67fa2)

  525. Trump says deck was “stacked against” Moore.

    Apparently, that’s how Roy preferred his teen-queens, too, Captain, sir. Strawberries remain off tonight. Raspberries still fresh.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  526. Travis smiley, come on down.

    narciso (d1f714)

  527. First of all, this says a lot about NJRob’s “expectations,” but it’s a statistic he pulled out of his small bowel. In fact, the median age of first marriages for women in Alabama from 2005-2009 was 25.3, meaning that half of the women being married for the first time were 25+, which in turn means that there are — and surely there were — plenty of unmarried women close to Moore’s age when he was 32. So the statement is factually indefensible crap to begin with.

    But think about what that statement necessarily implied: Suppose the statement were true, and that there were an insufficient number — however we’re going to define “insufficient” — of suitably aged women for a 32-year-old public servant to date.

    What kind of immoral scum would conclude from that fact, even if true, that it’s therefore okay and justifiable for that 32-year-old public servant to date young teens half his age or less?

    Talk about your Harvey Weinstein presumptions of entitlement. NJRob apparently still believes in droit du seigneur, the feudal doctrine which held that the sovereign could have sexual relations with his female subjects — including and especially the very young and virginal ones, even and especially on their wedding nights — at the sovereign’s whim.

    I want nothing to do in the future with anyone who could write such a thing. It is wrong, it is immoral, and it is inappropriate for a 32-year-old man to be dating young teens, period, full stop. Listening to Moore supporters try to defend this literally turns my stomach. If you really believe that middle-aged men may appropriately date young teens, you should move to a country governed by Sharia law.

    Beldar (fa637a) — 12/13/2017 @ 3:03 pm

    You chose 2005-2009 for a reason. Now tell me what it was from 1975-1979 which would he pertinent to the discussion.

    NJRob (c3af29)

  528. http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/13/us/dennis-hastert-restrictions-children/index.html

    Maybe all the men over 18 were married NJRob .

    Tillman (a95660) — 12/13/2017 @ 3:21 pm

    If he was a Democrat you’d be giving him a medal.

    NJRob (c3af29)

  529. You chose 2005-2009 for a reason. Now tell me what it was from 1975-1979 which would he pertinent to the discussio

    Why don’t you tell it what it was, because you’re the one making the assertion.

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  530. Anderson Cooper went off on Trump calling him vile names on Twitter, yet now says he’s been hacked.

    Since these claims aren’t 40 years old, I guess he deserves due process.
    NJRob (b00189) — 12/13/2017 @ 8:29 am

    Strzok is bi, and he’s into it.

    Pinandpuller (eb65c6)

  531. What the Alabama race demonstrates to Democrats is that attempting to pry away white Trump voters is a bad strategy, both morally and politically. The priority of any representative should be protecting the rights of the most vulnerable – particularly their right to vote, without which all other rights are threatened

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/alabama-proves-that-appealing-to-trump-voters-is-a-lost-cause-the-power-is-elsewhere/article37313990

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (f67fa2)

  532. Vital Statistics of the United States, 1979

    Google. CDC PDF statistics

    All marriages Alabama Brides 1979 – 48,760
    Under 18 – 5,660
    18-19 – 9,250
    20-24 – 15,160
    25-29 – 7,170
    30-34 – 4,020

    1st Marriage Alabama Brides 1979 – 29,570
    Under 18 – 5,580
    18-19 – 8,640
    20-24 – 11,040
    25-29 – 3,080
    30-34 – 690

    Only nationwide statistics for mean and median ages for marriage:
    Median age of married bride – 23.4
    Mean age of married bride – 26.7

    Median age 1st marriage bride – 21.6
    Mean age 1st marriage bride – 22.5

    NJRob (c3af29)

  533. Eighty Alabama honey boo boos under the age of eighteen already on their second marriage in 1979, on top of 5,580 on their first? ‘ow you say precocious in American?

    nk (dbc370)

  534. Nope. I didn’t say it right. Eighty Alabama honey boo boos under the age of eighteen having their second wedding in 1979, on top of 5,580 having their first? On top of those already married in previous years.

    nk (dbc370)

  535. We’re debating whether it’s cringey for Moore to do what he did. But that’s a political question. I think Alabama has answered it. They would prefer a stalwart abortionist to Moore.

    Dustin (782971)

  536. Prove your claim he’s a child molester. A civil suit showing a majority claim will suffice.

    NJRob,

    I do not attempt to prove things to people whom I know will accept no proof.

    That does not make my considered judgment on a question of public interest a “lie” simply because no court has ruled.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  537. What’s really sad is that the timing of Moore’s scandal was intended to let him get nominated so the GOP would take a loser to election day. The wapo timed things specifically to keep people uninformed until the timing did something politically calculated. That’s disgusting.

    Dustin (782971)

  538. Look forward to all the posts about the corruption going on in the FBI and Muller’s witch hunt now that this is over.

    Hahaha. Who am I kidding. I won’t hold my breath.

    Oh the irony

    Patterico (115b1f)

  539. There is string evidence this was almost entirely a put up job, from Tim miller other swampy players both azure and slightly crimson, but we still back to ray Donovan’s query ‘where do i go to get my reputation back’

    narciso (d1f714)

  540. The wapo timed things specifically to keep people uninformed until the timing did something politically calculated.

    Evidence?

    Didn’t think so.

    Dave (445e97)

  541. Res ipsa loquitor.

    nk (dbc370)

  542. There is string evidence this was almost entirely a put up job…

    String Theory? Ahhh, truthiness rests in an alternative universe.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  543. Dustin, I suspect that the Bannonites were hoist on their own petard. This was, among other things, a vote against the “elites”. For the Ewells and against the Finches of the world.

    nk (dbc370)

  544. Which is what makes the bias of the investigator so important. We don’t want somebody who picks a target just because he doesn’t like him and tries to pin a crime, any crime, on him. Or maybe “we” do?

    nk (dbc370)

  545. Wrong thread. Never mind.

    nk (dbc370)

  546. NJRob,

    I do not attempt to prove things to people whom I know will accept no proof.

    That does not make my considered judgment on a question of public interest a “lie” simply because no court has ruled.

    Patterico (115b1f) — 12/13/2017 @ 6:07 pm

    Patterico,

    Would you agree that the leaders of the left would willingly slander an honest man to defeat him politically?

    For example Reid on Romney.

    Why should we help them and make their lives easier and give unprovable claims creditability?

    If they’ve been “shown correct” at the ballot box as they were with Reid on Romney and yesterday, what’s going to get them to stop using unverifiable claims against people you do like?

    I expect it from the left. When we join them it gives them credibility for their next slander.

    And yes, I shouldn’t have called you a liar. And no, I didn’t sense any sarcasm or irony in your post. It felt like you were just happy Moore lost and didn’t care how he lost so you piled on.

    NJRob (c3af29)

  547. Mcconnell is the moron who did not back Mo Brooks.

    mg (60b0f7)

  548. Bannonites were hoist on their own petard


    Red State
    highlights Bannon’s really dumb, elitist insult of Joe Scarborough and the Crimson Tide:

    According to NBC reporter Jonathan Allen, Bannon was speaking to the crowd in Midland City, Alabama, and decided to attack MSNBC’s Joe Scarborough, by mocking where he went to college. Bannon went to Virginia Tech for undergrad, and then received a master’s at Georgetown and an MBA at Harvard, while Scarborough went to Alabama for undergrad and the University of Florida for law school.

    and Joe’s hilarious responses, including:

    I reckon if I’d gotten into one of Steve’s fancy schools outside of Alabama, I could’ve been one of them Goldman Sachs populists too.

    Dave (445e97)

  549. So you think the “Trump voter” honey boo boos would have liked Mo Brooks better than Doug Jones and come out in the primary or the runoff to torpedo Moore, instead of waiting a couple more weeks for the general election?

    nk (dbc370)

  550. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cz6fKjtQ1zI

    Good mourning, Moore.

    Coffee. Black. NJR.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  551. The republican run senate is a complete farce and has been for over a decade. I hope Bannon burns the republican party to the ground.

    mg (60b0f7)

  552. Nk, yup.

    Luther would’ve won in a cakewalk.

    Dave, come on. I’m not playing Internet debate. Have some common sense.

    Dustin (f53ea5)

  553. Mo Brooks should have been backed by Mcconnell from day 1.

    mg (60b0f7)

  554. The republican run senate is a complete farce and has been for over a decade.

    The Republicans have only run the senate for three years. But don’t let the facts get in your way!

    Dave (445e97)

  555. Well it turns out brooks has prostate cancer, and the loss in the primary saved him.

    narciso (d1f714)

  556. Its a pitiful joke, the grishenko nonsense is the signature accomplishment of this duma.

    narciso (d1f714)

  557. The republican senate is a death wish for America, I lost count how many bills the house has passed and that fu##ing no mind sob from kentucky has them sitting in the trash can. This inept pos Mcconnell needs to be taught a lesson by a true deplorable sob like me.

    mg (60b0f7)

  558. “Travis smiley, come on down.”

    narciso (d1f714) — 12/13/2017 @ 4:18 pm

    Let’s see him fast talk his way out of this one…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  559. So you think the “Trump voter” honey boo boos would have liked Mo Brooks better than Doug Jones and come out in the primary or the runoff to torpedo Moore, instead of waiting a couple more weeks for the general election?
    nk (dbc370) — 12/13/2017 @ 6:40 pm

    The Gloria Allred Train derailed 10 miles from the station.

    Pinandpuller (eb65c6)

  560. Well it turns out brooks has prostate cancer, and the loss in the primary saved him.
    narciso (d1f714) — 12/13/2017 @ 6:49 pm

    It must have been as aggressive as McCain’s brain cancer.

    Pinandpuller (eb65c6)

  561. Well he’ll be going into surgery next week I think, the later is an opinion.

    narciso (b01a4d)

  562. And yes, I shouldn’t have called you a liar. And no, I didn’t sense any sarcasm or irony in your post. It felt like you were just happy Moore lost and didn’t care how he lost so you piled on.

    Moore is an authoritarian who happens to be socially conservative, and who has demonstrated his contempt for the Rule of Law, and his contempt for almost anyone who is not a good ol’ boy like himself. His only difference from the SJWs is whom he wants to hurt. But his view of the Constitution–that it’s whatever he wants it to be–is actually the same.

    Even if the sexual allegations are all false, Moore should not have been elected. He is a foe of liberty not a friend.

    kishnevi (d22255)

  563. This inept pos Mcconnell needs to be taught a lesson by a true deplorable sob like me.

    How would you rate Merrick Garland’s first two years on the Supreme Court?

    Dave (445e97)

  564. McConnell didn’t think a guy who was kicked off the Alabama Supreme Court could win a State election. Turns out he was right. I’m not going to hold that against him.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  565. Say! How about that Gloria Allred? Score another one for the sisterhood. Penis people beware.

    If you go out in public better pretend like you’re gay.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  566. Kishnevi,

    “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”

    NJRob (b00189)

  567. 100 nk (dbc370) — 12/12/2017 @ 6:07 pm

    The provable fact is that he has been married to one woman for 32 years — that’s 32 freaking years!

    It’s only 32 years as of today. I just read today (Dec 13) that his wedding took place on December 14, 1985 (32 years are completed the day before the anniversary) So on December 12, it was short one day of 32 years.

    Note: It is already December 14 on the east Coast, but it is still December 13 on Patterico.

    The rest is accurate. Even if you believe the pinching incident, it’s still mostly accurate..

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73)

  568. Dave-I dontneed a pat on the back for doing my job.
    One job done lets this kentucky bred ingrate do nothing the rest of his life. Screw him and the people like him.

    mg (60b0f7)

  569. Anyone that thinks Mcconnell is on the side of Americans is a Chamber of Commerce sympathizing commie dolt.

    mg (60b0f7)

  570. As a footnote, lets visit an earlier time in political history when the previous POTUS administration made this wonderful public service announcement:

    In a video released earlier this year by Senate Democrats, Eric Holder’s successor as President Barack Obama’s Attorney General, Loretta Lynch, infamously called for bloody civil unrest against newly-elected President Donald Trump, saying, “They marched, they bled. Yes, some of them have died. This is hard. Every good thing is. We have done this before. We can do this again.”

    …and people consider Moore unfit for office based on proven forged documents and unsubstantiated accusations. And people considered Moore some kind of imaginery “threat” to the Constitution & Republic. blah blah blah. Corrupt groups simply wanted to cover their crimes in lynching Moore. Again, welcome to Moscow my friends. Thanks to our sponsors Saul Alinsky, the Weathermen & their associate, the wonderful, the fabulous, our leader of Glorious Memory, Past Present Future: POTUS Emeritus Obama. He is still with us. With friends like the current DNC & RNC, who needs enemies. Hope you’re having a golden graham day folks.

    Where Eagles Dare (30c9de)

  571. Ditto, where eagles dare, in Colombia, the opposition candidate to Santos who is enabling the guerrillas takeover of colombua, Andres arias was put in jail, martinelli a pro us and Taiwan leader has been detained onnspurioud charges.

    narciso (d1f714)

  572. here this is a link for Mr. Beldar

    nicely-reported article on Houston and the attack of the rain monster

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  573. @578. It’s a Travisty.

    :-) Smiley.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  574. narciso, I see by your post the hits continue throughout the globe. sad but I guess we can say it can get better and we sure hope it doesn’t get worse. its as if its a crime to not bend on your principles or go along with the status quo, unless you’re a liberal or Marxist or McCain (though he is a horse of another feather, he seems to gain is integrity by not going along with the party horse he rode in on, yet Moore is basically the same thing, leaning right though, and Moore is the one who gets the hit job on him and scalped by both left-right establishments throughout the internet) strange sad times we are living in when good people let bad people get away with bearing false witness against those they disagree with.

    cheers

    Where Eagles Dare (30c9de)

  575. Excellent link, happyfeet. Thank you.

    DRJ (15874d)

  576. How do you know the accusers are all lying, WED?

    DRJ (15874d)

  577. How many have to lie, to discredit the story, drj gleason was certainly misrepresenting herself, so was nelson, I’ll leave out cirfman because its very circumstantial. Than you have Tim millers admissiond

    narciso (d1f714)

  578. Hope Ryan does retire, from getting b-slapped in a debate by creepy Joe and insulting the voter as speaker of the house. He needs to go hunt Bullwinkle.

    mg (60b0f7)

  579. I see problems with Nelson’s story but that does not discredit other accusers.

    DRJ (15874d)

  580. But it is that attitude that makes accusers reluctant to come forward.

    DRJ (15874d)

  581. I suppose so, specially when time and new York, the supposedly woke publications employed one know harasser (halperin) and promoted two others at lease two the rafters (weinatein, spacey, smiley, franking, simmons, franker(

    narciso (d1f714)

  582. If you go out in public better pretend like you’re gay.
    papertiger (c8116c) — 12/13/2017 @ 9:00 pm

    I saw a bumper sticker today that said:

    “I don’t mind straight people, as long as they act gay in public.”

    felipe (b5e0f4)

  583. Felipe, it would be cool to see the “presumably gay one” go 180 and date rape a chick — how was that not a plot in Girls or some other wretch show like Search Party or Wrecked?

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  584. I’m sure those publication, included those admissions right?

    narciso (d1f714)

  585. Finally got around to talking with an Alabaman co-worker about this. He laid it at the feet of Shelby and McConnell l, all the stuff re: Brooks and write-in, the usual Soros-funded horsesh*t and the 600K who stayed home. He said that Moore is well-known as a wacky outsider type, but also that there’s nothing unusual in Alabama about an older guy going for a younger woman, mothers prefer to have their mid-teen daughters get acquainted with an employed, responsible guy who can take care of them. He says Moore was just a horny nerd who had trouble finding a girlfriend… also said he didn’t vote for Moore, he voted “Republican” and that Jones’s support for late-term abortion and his Democrat priorities will quickly sink him.

    Colonel Haiku (c8a9e1)

  586. 600. DRJ (15874d) — 12/14/2017 @ 11:00 am

    I see problems with Nelson’s story but that does not discredit other accusers.

    Only if she acted alone, but I don’t know if she could have. It doesn’t go so far as to discredit them, but it raises the probability that something is wrong with some or all of the others.

    It doesn’t look so good for the others whether she maintains she knew or she didn’t know about them, and she claims, or seems to claim, that she didn’t know about any others until it was published, which was four days before her press conference with Gloria Allred. That was all put together in four days, signature, statement, lawyer and all? (Not to mention getting the yearbook and the drawing out of an attic or closet or or something, but that is easy, and could be done in one day or two,)

    Today, in at least two different articles, the New York Times, in describing the accusations against Roy Moore (not using any names) seemed to omit what Beverly Young Nelson said. I think the Doug Jones campaign maybe wasn’t using it.

    But she did make TIME magazine – she is one of 61 women pictured in boxes on page 30-31 of the “Person of the Year” December 18, 2017 issue. They are named and dated (the date when theyw ent public on the extreme side columns of pages 32 and 33. Beverly Young Nelson is 4th from last and dated November 13. her story is not detailed.

    Sammy Finkelman (3efdba)

  587. He says some guy named Burns will be the guy who wins it in 2020.

    Colonel Haiku (c8a9e1)

  588. lots of problems on the horizon cause of how cowardpig war hero John McCain did not have the grace and dignity to resign :(

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  589. 597

    “How do you know the accusers are all lying, WED?”

    DRJ, How do you know the accusers are NOT all lying?

    Unfortunately both of our questions are a bit loaded: some of the accusers in question said there was nothing improper and there were of age to be out with Moore. So I do believe them but for some reason the media had made Moore out to be some kind of imaginary letch when possibly the majority of women in Alabama at that time had the same experience with older men, and it was not considered “a crime” or “offensive” or “disqualifying a candidate from running for office”.

    I also showed how 16 was also the age of consent in NY until recently. I guess the whole USA was filled with perverts & rapists back then. But all of a sudden Moore is a pervert even when dating as per law & legal age restrictions.

    If this were a trial I would have to let Moore off. I could never say what these accusers have stated leaves me convince of Moore’s guilt, “without a shadow of doubt”. There simply is not enough to convince me. Corfman accusations were very graphic but there was no corroborating evidence or a history of rape. All of a sudden 2 witnesses from the farthest time possible, as Moore is in his first public legal position in the late 1970s, he is supposedly out raping under age women. I don’t believe it and no court would ever find him guilty without more conclusive proof. Based on what they said, he would easily fit into a history like Cosby, with decades of accusers coming out now. The mall manager stated Moore was not on any banning list. And even when Moore lived in Oz, the people who knew him there said he was a perfect gentlemen.

    Name any other Hollywood or News perverts/rapists/sexual predators who have been called or known to “be perfect gentlemen towards women”?

    The yearbook is clearly a forgery. I have stated on multiple threads I analyze art and signatures for authenticity and this yearbook writing is a fraud. And to not allow a third party to analyze also does not convince there is merit to the case and it was all done to give the appearance of wrong-doing without allowing anyone to VERIFY IT.

    DRJ if possible, can you answer the following questions:

    why would international donors be so interested in this race to spend millions to defeat Moore? What kind of threat could this back-woods hayseed Judge be to their grand schemes? If they were willing to spend so much to crush a redneck like Moore, why would they NOT have spent funds to create a forgery?

    Are these groups so-called “defenders of women and feminism”?

    As is coming out daily, the FBI and even ex-CIA agents were active participants with other participants in the DNC, Russia, and UK to create, peddle and influence departments of the Federal Government in order to spy and try and defeat a political party’s candidate or prevent that same candidate from implementing his agenda.

    Highway 31, which dropped more than $4.1 million in support of Jones and against Roy Moore ahead of Tuesday’s Senate special election, is a joint project of two of the largest national Democratic super PACs — Senate Majority PAC and Priorities USA Action — along with a group of Alabama Democrats, multiple senior officials familiar with the arrangement told POLITICO.

    Politico reported on Monday that the George Soros-funded Priorities USA Action and Sen. Chuck Schumer’s (D-NY) Senate Majority PAC are the dark money behind the Alabama shell group, Highway 31, that has spent more than $4.1 million to defeat conservative Republican Roy Moore.

    sorry I could never find Moore guilty of anything based on unsubstantiated claims. And no court of law could either.

    Where Eagles Dare (30c9de)

  590. You mean this fellow:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_Byrne

    narciso (d1f714)

  591. Get that Byrne/Burn thing right…I thought Haiku was being sarcastic with our favorite commode..er.. commodore.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  592. How do you know the accusers are all lying, WED?

    DRJ (15874d) — 12/14/2017 @ 10:47 am

    Only 1 accuser had any degree of credibility and she made obvious incorrect statements such as blaming Mr. Moore for her problems and where he allegedly picked her up.

    Reminds me of how Beldar vilified me and blocked me for a statement that I made about Moore’s dating habits when he used bad information and also incorrect language accusing Moore of dating young teens which he did not.

    By the CDC’s own documentation, 1979 was a much different time than 2009 in Alabama and 2017 is further still.

    But he won’t see that because he blocked me based on incorrect information.

    NJRob (947d54)

  593. 613. NJRob (947d54) — 12/14/2017 @ 1:50 pm blockquote> Only 1 accuser had any degree of credibility Theer are on;y two really serious accusations. One is Beverly Young Nelson and the other is by Leigh Corfman, who was 14 years old when she says he took her to his home.

    and she made obvious incorrect statements such as blaming Mr. Moore for her problems and where he allegedly picked her up.

    Blaming him shows she’s selling something, but doesn’t go to the actual accusation itself. The wrong address deppends on knowing where she lived at the time – it is very hard to tell because all the street numbers were changed in Gadsden circa 1978. So we don’t know where that stands.

    Theer are things too check like what happened in court the day she says Roy Moore volunteered to keep er out of the courtroom. There has been some trouble about asking for her telephone number – she wouldn’t and didn’t have a separate number. To maintain contact without her mother knowing anything, she;d have had to call him, not he her.

    Reminds me of how Beldar vilified me and blocked me for a statement that I made about Moore’s dating habits when he used bad information and also incorrect language accusing Moore of dating young teens which he did not.

    At some point he did admit doing that, but not dating exclusively or mainly, women that young. Or maybe he knew them but he didn’t “date” them.

    By the CDC’s own documentation, 1979 was a much different time than 2009 in Alabama and 2017 is further still.

    What happened in 2009?

    The only thing the CDC hss said was that Etowah County has the highest rate of venereal disease of any county in the country.

    Sammy Finkelman (3efdba)

  594. 540. There is no indication that Hastert has done anything for over 40 years. No claims.

    Sammy Finkelman (3efdba)

  595. Sammy,

    young teen implies underage. That’s what I’m disputing.

    What happened in 2009?

    The only thing the CDC hss said was that Etowah County has the highest rate of venereal disease of any county in the country.

    Sammy Finkelman (3efdba) — 12/14/2017 @ 5:30 pm

    Beldar said the following

    First of all, this says a lot about NJRob’s “expectations,” but it’s a statistic he pulled out of his small bowel. In fact, the median age of first marriages for women in Alabama from 2005-2009 was 25.3, meaning that half of the women being married for the first time were 25+, which in turn means that there are — and surely there were — plenty of unmarried women close to Moore’s age when he was 32. So the statement is factually indefensible crap to begin with.

    I responded that the time period wasn’t pertinent to when Moore was looking for a bride and said the relevant period would’ve been 75-79. Davethulu told me if I cared so much to look it up. So I did and posted the stats.

    In 1979 over 85% of a bride’s first marriages were done under the age of 25. Heck more brides were under 18 than were 25+.

    That’s repulsive by modern standards, but clearly wasn’t offensive at the time.

    NJRob (b00189)

  596. first marriages in Alabama*

    NJRob (b00189)

  597. @616

    I figured you would drop this once you saw the stats you retrieved, however…

    The original bit of info that Beldar was challenging was this:

    He [Moore] was a 32 year old that dated teens in an area where I expect every 20-something was already married.

    Would you say that your stats support your assertion?

    Davethulhu (99cc74)

  598. I’d say having 85% married by 24 certainly supports that assertion.

    Thankfully, we are no longer in that mindset.

    NJRob (b00189)

  599. 48% married before 20.

    NJRob (b00189)

  600. 616… no, it’s not repulsive. 40 years ago, young people couldn’t wait to move away from home and get out on their own. They grew up earlier…they married earlier. Back then there were more opportunities, more decent paying jobs than are available now. People who voted for Moore didn’t necessarily vote for the man, as my Alabaman colleague said, many of them voted for the Republican Party, because they know what the Democrats are all about and they want nothing to do with them.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  601. Different strokes for different folks. The Dems and the establishment Republicans did their best to move Moore on to the ballot and then the Wash Po did their usual hit job on a Republican candidate and unleashed these can’t prove/can’t disprove allegations dating back 40 years.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  602. It’s not too hard to figure out. All these sanctimonious, soft soap, pussyfooting fauxconservatives can KMA.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  603. You want to turn the Congress over to the left? We’ll see how well that works out… it’ll be different than past experiences right? After all, they only want what’s best for the country and the West, in general… right?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  604. @619

    I think your math is wrong. I think it’s 62% married at 24 or less. (30k marriages at 24 or less out of 48.7k total marriages). Plenty of ladies left in his proper age range (32 / 2 + 7 = 23+).

    If you look here, you’ll see a 15+ difference in age range (which Moore and his wife fall within, and which any of the girls he was hitting on would have fallen within) is very rare.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_disparity_in_sexual_relationships

    Davethulhu (99cc74)

  605. Moore is a weirdo creep and I’m glad wasn’t elected.

    Davethulhu (99cc74)

  606. Davethulu,

    it’s 1st marriages. That was the criteria Beldar used. I posted both for discussion purposes.

    1st Marriage Alabama Brides 1979 – 29,570
    Under 18 – 5,580
    18-19 – 8,640
    20-24 – 11,040
    25-29 – 3,080
    30-34 – 690

    More 1st marriages under 18 than over 24.

    A much different world than now.

    NJRob (b00189)

  607. no, it’s not repulsive. 40 years ago, young people couldn’t wait to move away from home and get out on their own. They grew up earlier…they married earlier. Back then there were more opportunities, more decent paying jobs than are available now. People who voted for Moore didn’t necessarily vote for the man, as my Alabaman colleague said, many of them voted for the Republican Party, because they know what the Democrats are all about and they want nothing to do with them.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 12/14/2017 @ 9:16 pm

    I said repulsive by modern standards which it is. This attack wouldn’t have been effective otherwise.

    It wasn’t abnormal at the time.

    NJRob (b00189)

  608. Only if you are a big proponent of “modern standards”, Rob. There are a number of them that are unhealthy, and that’s putting it kindly.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  609. Different than modern standards, yes, repulsive, no.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  610. Not going to argue with you. Nk just posted a big one. Not enough marriages and babies.

    Our society is broken. I’ve already said I don’t see us recovering. It’s going to be ugly. I hope I’m wrong.

    NJRob (b00189)

  611. where eagles dare,

    The stories are too consistent for me to call them false. In addition, even Moore refused to say he did not date much younger women:

    In an interview last week with Sean Hannity of Fox News, Moore did not rule out that he may have dated teenage girls when he was in his 30s, though he said he could not recall.

    I have said before that I think Moore wanted to date young girls because they were easier to influence and control. (He ultimately married a younger girl but he has apparently been faithful and loving.) My issue with Moore is that his history suggests he wants to control other people, in relationships and in his legal career.

    DRJ (15874d)

  612. If you read the article I linked, you’ll see “half-your-age-plus-seven” has been a rule of thumb for over a hundred years. Moore was a creep.

    Davethulhu (99cc74)

  613. And Christine O Donnall is a witch.

    It were better that Ten Suspected Witches should escape, than that one Innocent Person should be Condemned.

    – Increase Mather

    papertiger (c8116c)

  614. 632… Yes, much truth in what nk wrote. Can’t marry and have babies when young pajama boys sit around on their asses playing with their phones and their only interaction with the fairer sex is watching porn, playing with themselves, which sates their lust and allows them to go back to sitting on their asses playing with their phones.

    Maybe it’s not that bad… I know it’s not that way with my 35 and 33 year old sons, but the younger males seem to be a sad, despondent, forlorn lot in many respects.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  615. Felipe, it would be cool to see the “presumably gay one” go 180 and date rape a chick — how was that not a plot in Girls or some other wretch show like Search Party or Wrecked?
    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb) — 12/14/2017 @ 11:41 am

    There used to be a common plot device that would get you charged with rape by deception these days: Acting gay to entice the girl to convert you to heterosexuality.

    Pinandpuller (159672)

  616. 2017 is not a good year to vote.

    pictaram (842396)

  617. “the younger males seem to be a sad, despondent, forlorn lot in many respects.”

    – Colonel Haiku

    I think that’s true. Our civil society has denied them avenues for meaning.

    I think we’re going to see in hindsight that the student loan industry seriously damaged our society, to an almost predatory degree.

    Leviticus (94408b)

  618. Thin the herd

    mg (60b0f7)

  619. I think that’s true. Our civil society has denied them avenues for meaning.

    I think we’re going to see in hindsight that the student loan industry seriously damaged our society, to an almost predatory degree.

    Leviticus (94408b) — 12/15/2017 @ 2:28 am

    Completely agree.

    NJRob (b00189)

  620. Workfare for academia drones on the backs of the taxpayers which is not all that bad — they’re used to it; and at the expense of the youth, energies and futures of the students which is very bad.

    nk (dbc370)

  621. I turned 18 in November 1975. I assure you that even in the old South, even in 1975, it was emphatically not the norm, or even an acceptable exception to the norm, for men over 30 to be dating women under age 18. It wasn’t acceptable for me as an 18 year old to date 14 year olds. Any suggestion to the contrary is bullsh*t and insulting.

    By “young teens” in my comments above, I meant women who are not yet adults, i.e., females of age 17 and below. A 32-year-old dating an 18-year-old is now — and definitely still would have been in the 1970s — creepy and weird. A 32-year-old dating a 16-year-old is now — and definitely still would have been in the 1970s — immoral and wrong. A 32-year-old dating a 14-year-old would likely have become the subject of vigilante violence.

    And as I said earlier, the whole concept that a middle-aged man is entitled to dip into the dating pool of women below age 18 because of an alleged “inadequacy” in the numbers of available women of his own age, or at least of adult age, is depraved.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  622. Breitbart…

    ALEX MARLOW (HOST): In hindsight guys, look, it’s a — there was no option at Breitbart — and I will try to articulate this over and over. There was no option to throw Judge [Roy] Moore under the bus. If you set the standard that Roy Moore, who was accused of abusing five women, three of whom — or six women, three of whom were not actually accusing him of doing anything illegal, two of whom either had a massive conflict of interest or were entirely uncredible for putting out a forged yearbook, that left one accuser and it was a he said, she said. If you make that the standard, the left is going to use it to take out President Trump. There was never any reason to cave unless you have a — unless you would like President Trump to get removed from office, and if not even removed from office, at least have massive distractions from his agenda so that we never accomplish anything for the remainder of the president’s term. And much of the Republican Party wants that. Much of the Republican Party does not see that as a negative.

    When you’ve got a race when you’ve got a horrible candidate. Let’s not — you guys are being too polite about Roy Moore, he was a terrible candidate. His message did not resonate, he had all the baggage, he had the scandal. When he’d run for statewide office he’d only won in very tight races or relatively tight, considering he’s the Republican. Roy Moore was not a good candidate at all.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (cbfdca)

  623. “I turned 18 in November 1975. I assure you that even in the old South, even in 1975, it was emphatically not the norm, or even an acceptable exception to the norm, for men over 30 to be dating women under age 18. It wasn’t acceptable for me as an 18 year old to date 14 year olds. Any suggestion to the contrary is bullsh*t and insulting.”

    I’ve talked to a few Alabama colleagues and it wasn’t as outlandish as you are making it out to be 4 decades ago.

    Colonel Haiku (ac2387)

  624. In other words, Dazed and Confused wasn’t fiction.

    urbanleftbehind (9240ed)

  625. What difference at this point does it make? Moore didn’t win, did he?

    nk (dbc370)

  626. According to this, at age 30,, Roy moore should not ahve dated anyone under 22.

    https://xkcd.com/314/

    But by the time he started dating Kayla Kisor in 1985, she was almost within the age range.

    He married her when he was 38 and she was 24. 38 /2 = 19 + 7 = 26. two years later 40/2 = 20 + 7 = 27 – Two more years, and it wa snormalized. 42/2 = 21 + 7 = 28.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  627. Has Moore conceded yet?., heh

    http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/365071-wh-spokesman-fbi-has-extreme-bias-against-trump

    I really tried. My son’s convinced me to watch the debates. I thought maybe he’s not just a carnival barking snood. Could be his antics get us to the Church. Ok. . . . same shallow, pull-it-out-yer-arse improvisational sinkhole the size of Lake Superior, about the same as Trumps piehole. Same smell has permeated the ozone for a year now.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (4b3a7c)

  628. In his book “So help me God” chapter 5, he writes that in the week before Christmas, 1984 he attended a Christmas Party he was invoted to by his landlord (later something of a partner) Myron Allenstein, and his wife Gloria, at the Emmanuel Lutheran Church which they attended.

    Moore had written some “Christmas poems” – loosely related – one was about his father which ahd been broadcast on several radio stations – it is included in the book – and he wanted to recite it.

    There he saw a “beautiful young woman” sitting on a sofa witgh her mother against the wall and he heard her name was Kayla. He thought he recognized her.

    “Many years before, I had attended a dance recital at Gadsden State Junior College.”

    He remembered one of the “special dances” he saw and that the woman first and last names both began with the letter K. He had never forgotten that.

    He said to her:

    “Have we met somewhere before?”

    She answered: “I don’t think so.”

    He got flustered during his recital of his very familiar poem. He writes he “knew Kayla was going to be a very special person in my life”

    Long afterward he learned that in fact she had peformed a special dance routinem at Gadsdn Stgate.

    That tells me that he actually didn’t remember where he had seen it and if she did numerous times, it might have been even earlier when she was still in high school. [but not before Oct 1977, when she was 16 – SF]

    He writes: (or had it ghostwritten for him, because there’s a co-author)

    “I was determined to get to know her but Kayla, divorced and with a beautiful little girl, Heather, who was nearly a year old, was not interested in a relationship with anyone. She had worked as a model and with her father in the restaurant business after graduation from Southside High School. She had attended college at the University of Alabama, which I had also attended as a law student years before. [1974-77 SF]

    Early in the new year, Kayla came to see Mr. Allenstein about legal business for her dad. Myron just happened to be away on business, and I was the only attorney available. And I was very available! We began to date soon after that. After about a year we became engaged and were married on [Sat] December 14, 1985. My partially finished house became our home as we began life together.”

    – So Help Me God by Roy moore with John Perry (Broadman and Holman, Publishers, 2005) page 43.

    [It seems like he needed a housekeeper, too! It was a couple of years till he added a kitchen – Kayla had to use a skillet in the washroom for cooking.]

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  629. DRJ

    What you stated:

    “In an interview last week with Sean Hannity of Fox News, Moore did not rule out that he may have dated teenage girls when he was in his 30s, though he said he could not recall.”

    …was not accurate.

    what Moore said, and I heard in the interview live, was:

    “Do you remember dating girls that young at that time?”

    “Not generally, no.” “If I did, I’m not going to dispute anything, but I don’t remember anything like that.”

    Moore then said he did not commit the act involving a 14-year-old teen, but suggested that he did date women as young as 16 when he was over the age of 30.

    He was speaking to the issue of teenage girls of the age of consent vs below the age of consent.

    You do realize that “teenage” also means 16 to 19 years old girls/young women that are “of the age of consent” don’t you? He would of been lying if he said he did not date teenage girls that were between 16 and 19 and were and still are, BY LAW, LEGAL AGE OF CONSENT.

    I just don’t see where anyone can get that Moore was saying he dated teenagers under the age of consent. He denied it more than once in the interview.

    From Business Insider, no friend of Moore because they seem to imply, wrongly, that to date a teenager of 16 yrs old, was also dubious behavior in 1970s Alabama, which it was NOT:

    “Moore said he did not commit the act involving a 14-year-old teen.”

    “Pointing to the allegation involving a 14-year-old, Moore said: ‘This never happened. They know it never happened.’ ”

    ” ‘If you abuse a 14-year-old, you shouldn’t be a Senate candidate. I agree with that,” Moore said. “But I did not do that.’ ”

    That is all that could of been a crime. Here is the article link:

    http://www.businessinsider.com/roy-moore-sean-hannity-alabama-senate-2017-11

    The 24/7 hit job done on Moore by the DNC and RNC and the most if not all news stations, was to vaporize Moore’s reputation by promoting ONE interpretation of the accusations, which were from biased points of view. Even if Moore was innocent, I have read & heard so many people who simply did not agree with Moore’s past actions or beliefs and that is why they did not feel the need to doubt these false accusations.

    For these media outlets to assume that because Moore dated any “teenage” girl at all, means he is a rapist or pedophile, which is wrong.

    I listened to the interview. Moore never said “I might of dated or did date teenage girls under the age of consent.”

    You also stated: “The stories are too consistent for me to call them false.” What/which stories?

    There are those that were “of the age of consent” and those 2, that were below the age of consent” which were not consistent at all. They were different and with no corresponding evidence or other people to corroborate them. That doesn’t get conviction for a crime. Even close relatives of both victims did not agree with the under-age accusers.

    DRJ you didn’t answer the rest of my questions:

    Why was there an international effort from Soros backed shell groups and both political parties trying to destroy Moore? What threat does he represent to them and if they outspent Moore 14-1 why would they not also fund for forged documents and fake accusers? You do know that the left smear machine is paying accusers to come after Trump since 2016, don’t you? Paying them. If a person is desperate for money they will say and do anything for it, whether its against Trump or Moore.

    The Hill reports:

    A well-known women’s rights lawyer sought to arrange compensation from donors and tabloid media outlets for women who made or considered making sexual misconduct allegations against Donald Trump during the final months of the 2016 election, according to documents and interviews.

    California lawyer Lisa Bloom’s efforts included offering to sell alleged victims’ stories to TV outlets in return for a commission for herself, arranging a donor to pay off one Trump accuser’s mortgage and attempting to secure a six-figure payment for another woman who ultimately declined to come forward after being offered as much as $750,000, the clients told The Hill.

    The women’s accounts were chronicled in contemporaneous contractual documents, emails and text messages reviewed by The Hill, including an exchange of texts between one woman and Bloom that suggested political action committees supporting Hillary Clinton were contacted during the effort.

    Bloom admitted to The Hill that she sought funds from Trump accusers prior to the election.

    “Donors reached out to my firm directly to help some of the women I represented,” said Bloom.

    “Our standard pro bono agreement for legal services provides that if a media entity offers to compensate a client for sharing his or her story we receive a percentage of those fees. This rarely happens. But, on occasion, a case generates media interest and sometimes (not always) a client may receive an appearance fee,” added Bloom.

    I am very sorry DRJ but the leftist politicians and republicans who have been guilty of their past crimes are proven either by admission, pay outs, photos, years of accusations, or resignations.

    Moore has none of these except a whole lot of left-right establishment groups who wanted him not to be in the Senate. That is hardly enough to convict someone of even a j-walking ticket.

    Big money from billionaires and millionaires who do not agree with Moore and Trump can make up any kind of story and pay for any kind of forgery or accuser. That does not make it true. The media simply did not like Moore and Moore was not on the level of a Trump, to be able to fight back.

    sad day when America transforms into Amerika and we celebrate the return of Salem Witch Trial justice.

    good day.

    Where Eagles Dare (30c9de)


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