Patterico's Pontifications

12/1/2017

Garbage Tax Bill Passing Tonight

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 10:10 pm



Nobody who raises my taxes ever gets another dollar or vote from me.

CBO says it will add $1.5 trillion to the debt.

Trash from a trash party.

[Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.]

518 Responses to “Garbage Tax Bill Passing Tonight”

  1. Watching a roll call and listening to names like Menendez and Franken be called.

    The Senate is a garbage institution with garbage people.

    I think I am in a bad mood.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  2. I haven’t been following the play-by-play; is the individual mandate repeal still part of it?

    Dave (445e97)

  3. It’s a den of scum and villainy, like mos Eisley or canto bligh.

    narciso (d1f714)

  4. You can’t tell what’s in it any more. I know the SALT deduction repeal is still there.

    I saw something vague earlier about a treat Susan Collins tossed in for public employees who contribute to their own pensions. If I end up profiting from that, I will dance a jig in front of every person who danced a jig at the notion of me paying thousands more in taxes just because they resent every last individual who lives in California. Nothing would be sweeter and more poetic than to enrage those people by getting a tax break for something like this.

    Hey. When you laughed at me and discounted my having to pay thousands per year more in taxes? At that point it became war. It’s too much to think I’ll actually come out ahead, but the thought that I could — in a way that would piss off the people who laughed at me — is about the only comforting thought I can take to bed with me tonight from all this.

    I don’t feel guilty about it, by the way. I perform a core function of government, I contribute to it, and I sacrificed a LOT of money for certain trade offs, and this is one of them.

    I gotta look that one up now.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  5. Nah, this is it. Not what I hoped.

    https://twitter.com/SenatorCollins/status/936668844655104000

    She may have saved some of our sweet sweet property tax deductions though.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  6. oh great now they’re taxing garbage

    i bet toxic toni preckwinkle’s behind this

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  7. It just passed, I am informed.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  8. not unlike a kidney stone

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  9. Here’s the relevant part of Collins’ statement. It’s not very specific, but Susan was looking out for YOU!

    Third, I’m pleased that my amendment to reverse the Senate bill’s ill-advised elimination of catch-up contributions to retirement accounts for church, charity, school, and public employees was adopted. My amendment will help protect these employees – including firefighters, school teachers, and police officers – by striking provisions in the Senate bill that would have reduced their ability to save for retirement. These first responders and other public servants should not have their standard of living in retirement diminished because they chose to work in public service.

    Dave (445e97)

  10. Oops, you already found it…

    Dave (445e97)

  11. As far as I can tell, the individual mandate WAS repealed.

    Dave (445e97)

  12. lovin’ that individual mandate repeal

    it’s silky smoov

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  13. Reaganomics Redux.

    Should do as well as the remake of that other 1980’s hit: Ghostbusters. Let the tricks of trickle down begin!

    “Senator, don’t piss down my back and tell me it’s raining.” – Fletcher [John Vernon] ‘The Outlaw Josey Wales’ 1976

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  14. Great role models for the kiddies these Congresscritters. If any of you turned in professional paperwork the way this bill was prepared- with handwritten scrawls in the margins and such– in HS, college, grad school or law school– you’d get an instant F.

    Can’t wait to start sendin’ in those returns on a postcard!

    Suckers.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  15. @12. Mr. Feet, you’re gonna gets $4000.00, 40 acres and a mule!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  16. Post-vote presser was most entertaining; The Turtle snapped two oneliners, Hatch wiped his nose and thanked all the young people while Cruz penguined camera center.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  17. hells to the yeah

    an outer-space convertible too – light blue

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  18. What is the problem with the bill? Asking out of honest ignorance here, as I’m a Canadian and non-economist who hasn’t been following the details.

    Stephen J. (642b83)

  19. Should do as well as the remake of that other 1980’s hit: Ghostbusters. Let the tricks of trickle down begin!

    “Senator, don’t piss down my back and tell me it’s raining.” – Fletcher [John Vernon] ‘The Outlaw Josey Wales’ 1976
    DCSCA (797bc0) — 12/1/2017 @ 11:15 pm

    Dyin’ ain’t no way to make a livin’.

    Pinandpuller (37eab6)

  20. Cant wait for the no trumpers to start rioting. Hopefully they will burn California to the ground. What a useless state of mind those ingrates share.

    mg (60b0f7)

  21. Another huge wi for President Trump and Americans that love this country, the rest of you – Canada awaits your arrival.
    Adios losers.

    mg (60b0f7)

  22. @20 mg

    Don’t worry, China and Mexico will share joint custody. Or maybe CA is like Persephone

    Homer describes her as the formidable, venerable majestic princess of the underworld, who carries into effect the curses of men upon the souls of the dead. Persephone was married to Hades, the god-king of the underworld.

    Pinandpuller (37eab6)

  23. Near me, a lot of people have reluctantly moved from higher taxed states, to Tennessee. Pat, California et al, these high tax states that suck 100s of billions of federal dollars, that spend multiples of other states on educating students with poorer results, and have out of control crime, social unrest and a host of many other problems as law abiding citizens have very sadly had to move.

    You can address your local and state government to lower their spending, just like the people did nationally.

    EPWJ (4dc563)

  24. Cant wait for the no trumpers to start rioting. Hopefully they will burn California to the ground. What a useless state of mind those ingrates share.

    mg

    It is very pretty there.

    But anyway, great deal seeing a repeal of the individual mandate. If Trump can get that signed into law he will have managed an important victory.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  25. Indeed Dustin, very pretty. I am trying to convince my youngest daughter to get the heck out of California as no one in that state can be trusted. Hope she moves to the big island.

    mg (60b0f7)

  26. Brian Ross has to be from California. How can this imbecile have a job?

    mg (60b0f7)

  27. When ginsburg dies, Trump will set us up with another huge win.

    mg (60b0f7)

  28. CBO
    lmmfao

    mg (60b0f7)

  29. I love it…. The Kidney Stone Tax Bill.

    “I don’t give a damn, just get that thing out of my chamber!”

    noel (b4d580)

  30. Please God almighty, let this thing pass. Right, happyfeet?

    noel (b4d580)

  31. Patterico : The Congressional Budget Office has seldom, if ever, made a prediction about a tax bill or a provision in a tax bill that was accurate. In fact, if the CBO stated that tax revenues would increase, you could “bet the farm” that tax revenues would decrease. Don’t take my word for it, check with “The Statistical Abstract of the United States.” I do not know what sources you have relied on other than the CBO but those sources are equally wrong.

    Michael Keohane (947544)


  32. I do not know what sources you have relied on other than the CBO but those sources are equally wrong.

    The entrails of a goat.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  33. Relief for the wealthy but permanent pain for the poor and many in middle class.

    Yea, Kidney Stone Tax Bill passes alright.

    noel (b4d580)

  34. Noel made it official. Now that a tax bill passed we can look forward to leftist propagandists bitching about “tax breaks for the rich” for the foreseeable future. With special emphasis on the pain inflicted on the children and the poor because both demographics pay so many taxes.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  35. Noel got it almost right. The poor will not be affected too adversely. They may even get an extra bag of peanuts out of it. The ones who will be screwed will be the lower-middle and middle-middle classes. The people making between $50K and $200K. Trump’s biggest block of voters. Suckers! The ones who will make out like bandits will be the Trumps, the Kushners, the Mnuchins, the Tillersons, et al — the multimillionaires and billionaires.

    nk (dbc370)

  36. It makes sense, though, doesn’t it?

    What’s the point of taxing the poor? They have no money. Just keep them pacifying them so they don’t riot.

    And tax the rich? Seriously? They run DC. They’ll spend more money on lobbyists and “political donations” to keep their taxes low then they will pay in taxes.

    So whom do you tax? The people with their noses to the grindstones, who have enough money to make it worth going after, and are too busy working to make a better life for themselves and their children to make trouble, who else?

    nk (dbc370)

  37. *Just keep them pacified so they don’t riot.*

    nk (dbc370)

  38. Rev.Hoagie says sarcastically, “the pain inflicted on the children and the poor because both demographics pay so many taxes”

    No Rev., they don’t pay a lot in income tax but they will surely “pay” with this bill. The real life impact on some of these families will be devastating. Not that a Rev. would care.

    noel (b4d580)

  39. And we all know that Donald, Eric, Ivanka, Barron and Tiffany need their 200 million dollar (each) estate tax cut that is in the house version. Hate to have them “pay so many taxes” like the middle class wage earners. Right Hoagie?

    noel (b4d580)

  40. You know what’s devastating? The price of legal marijuana in Colorado. Up to $330 an ounce from a smoke shop. Pot dealers may be legal now, but they’re still crooks.

    nk (dbc370)

  41. Estate taxes are immoral. Maybe you’d like to tax the presents I’m giving my daughter for Christmas, too? How about the food and clothes we buy for her?

    nk (dbc370)

  42. Josh barro, is that you?

    narciso (d1f714)

  43. Here’s the relevant part of Collins’ statement. It’s not very specific, but Susan was looking out for YOU!

    Stonewalling for a better local poll result.

    There is no one in DC who performs at base expectations.

    Throw all the bums out.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  44. tax breaks for the rich” for the foreseeable future.

    People like Hoagie make me long for Idiocracy. Voting against your own interests is almost there.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  45. What’s immoral is charging cancer patients 25 percent tax for their meds. Another 25 percent on growers makes your $330 oz what it is.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  46. nk says, “Estate taxes are immoral”.

    OK. Lets talk. The Walton family who owns Walmart is worth about 100 billion dollars. Which is about enough money to buy every home in North and South Dakota. Maybe throw in Wyoming. (I’d have to crunch the numbers.)

    Follow me so far? Well, they have not paid significant income taxes on that wealth because they have not sold the company and “realized” that gain. So… nk, if your plan is adopted neither they….. nor their kids, grandkids, great-grandkids (on and on) will EVER pay like the rest of us.

    To you, thats the “moral” thing to do. Sure buddy. Sure.

    noel (b4d580)

  47. That’s the way the French tried to manage their opium supply, dudnt work. But you expect your Sims to be free.

    narciso (d1f714)

  48. NYT

    With barely a vote to spare early Saturday morning, the Senate passed a tax bill confirming that the Republican leaders’ primary goal is to enrich the country’s elite at the expense of everybody else, including future generations who will end up bearing the cost. The approval of this looting of the public purse by corporations and the wealthy makes it a near certainty that President Trump will sign this or a similar bill into law in the coming days.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  49. Of course there is already an 11 million dollar exemption before taxes are paid on estates. The Senate version doubles that. The House ridiculously eliminates all estate taxes. The rich dynasties would never have to pay like the rest of us.

    Wow. Just wow.

    noel (b4d580)

  50. So for example the hobbies had to sell team to blockbuster who bought it from another team, its a transference of shells, with the govt getting a cut minus all the expense in foundation expense that buffet gates et al to avoid paying the tax.

    narciso (d1f714)

  51. VOODOO HOODOO DOODOO!

    It’s Reaganomics to the 10th power.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  52. What’s a course of chemo cost?

    $2000? PIG PHARMA.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  53. Cost of bigpig Pharma meds is a hidden tax.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  54. Keeping the alternative minimum tax is a rhubarb fruitcake for the holidays

    narciso (d1f714)

  55. Patterico wrote:
    Nobody who raises my taxes ever gets another dollar or vote from me.

    To Patterico, the GOP says: “Vote for Hillary, then.”

    Sheldon Adelson, the casino owner, gave $100 million to Trump’s campaign alone. To Sheldon Adelson, the GOP says: “Do you like the color of these knee-pads? I wear them only for you.”

    nk (dbc370)

  56. “Rhubarb fruitcake”? Oh well, I’ll try anything once. Well, I am no Roy Moore, but you know what I mean.

    noel (b4d580)

  57. GOP RIP (rest in pieces)

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  58. House will bow down..no problema.

    Sealing the tomb..

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  59. You see, the cooling saucer is the Senate where the adults play at adulthood.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  60. Noel sure is the Republican he claimed to be, isn’t he.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  61. Swamp creatures

    Senator Jon Tester of Montana took to Twitter and showed off his copy of the GOP tax plan as it was at the moment it was handed to him. (We can’t be sure that more edits from LOBBYISTS haven’t arrived in the meantime.)

    He shows off scribbles in the margin of his “final” copy that are an absolute mess.

    Boy are they rushing this.

    Admiral Ben burn (ae8e78)

  62. I was thinking the nastiest possible flavor of fruitcake.

    narciso (364166)

  63. Tux Bill for tehPEOPLE

    Admiral Ben burn (ae8e78)

  64. noel

    Google Kennedy Trusts if you have any more questions for nk re the Estate Tax. I was recently looking through some probate papers from when my grandpa died in 1982. It was nauseating. We are a pretty middle class family.

    Pinandpuller (f2e21b)

  65. Reading these wild-eyed posts from the usual suspects confirms my take that though this bill could’ve been better, it could’ve been much worse. I know how much love these Democrats have for “the middle class” and the “working class” white folks.

    Not much at all.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  66. Read noel’s comment at 46. That’s nauseating. He thinks people have a moral obligation to manage their affairs in a way which gives any wealth they might earn to the government and not to their loved ones.

    nk (dbc370)

  67. “For true national repentance, there needs to be recognition of objective standards that allow for any of these judgments to be made in the first place. There’s not. We’re not seeing careful consideration of how we got to this point — the abandonment of God as the source of all moral authority or, at the very least, a common recognition of natural law and traditional social norms.

    Instead, we are seeing navel-gazing about how to rethink sex, what to do about the brutality of masculinity, and how to delegitimize conservatives who have been accused of abandoning character for political expediency.

    Leftists aren’t embracing morality; they’re looking for a way to reclaim the moral authority they lost after past decades of materialism, creeping totalitarianism, and moral bankruptcy. Like fools drunk from their own power, they slipped out of their self-appointed divine seat as arbiters of morals and truth, and they’re now reclaiming it by whatever means necessary. They’re not humbling themselves before the true Moral Authority. They’re replacing it with their own.”

    https://pjmedia.com/trending/dont-be-fooled-the-left-doesnt-care-about-morals-it-cares-about-power/

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  68. I am curious as to how noel thinks someone else being wealthy harms him/her or indeed harms anyone else.

    The Waltons have their 100B because they created thousands of times more value than that 100B for WalMart shoppers via reduced prices. Most of those shoppers are not wealthy. I am old enough to remember pre-WalMart days when local merchants working with tightly controlling middlemen gouged us senseless.

    It seems to me that noel has envious hate for the wealthy much larger than any concern he pretends to have for those less than wealthy. But I bet he buys plenty from WalMart, Home Depot, Microsoft, Apple, Amazon and all the others who bring him spectacular things for great prices.

    Fred Z (05d938)

  69. SALT deduction:

    PROWATCHLIST

    PERSONAL FINANCE
    PERSONAL FINANCE RETIREMENT CAREERS SAVINGS DEBT TAX PLANNING COLLEGE GAME PLAN
    Tax reform could hit certain states harder than others
    Residents of states like California, Connecticut, New Jersey and New York could face a bigger tax bill with proposed changes to state and local tax and mortgage deductions.
    Effects of the changes will vary depending on a family’s size, income and which deductions they are still eligible to take.
    Lorie Konish | @LorieKonish
    Published 19 Hours Ago Updated 16 Hours Ago
    CNBC.com
    247
    SHARES
    Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., speaks during a news conference in Dirksen Building on the importance of passing the tax reform bill for small businesses on November 30, 2017. Richard LeFrak: It’s interesting a lot of ‘loophole closings’ occur in ‘blue states’
    16 Hours Ago | 02:34
    Residents of states with higher tax rates — like California, Connecticut, New Jersey and New York — might be facing bigger tax bills if the Republicans’ tax reform passes.

    Proposed changes to state and local tax and mortgage deductions could be especially damaging to those residents. State and local taxes (also known as SALT) include state sales tax, property and real estate taxes. Individuals can currently deduct those taxes as an itemized deduction.

    “The bottom line is for families in these particular states… the loss of deductions will impact them much more than families in states with lower state income taxes and real property taxes.”
    -Chris Raulston, Raymond James
    The original Senate version of the tax reform bill proposed eliminating all SALT deductions. The House of Representatives’ version of the bill proposed repealing the SALT deduction except for real estate taxes of up to $10,000.

    An amendment to allow the deduction of up to $10,000 in state and local property taxes will now be included in the Senate tax bill, Senator Susan Collins, R-Maine, tweeted on Friday.

    The tax reform legislation also proposes changes to the mortgage interest deduction. Currently, individuals can deduct up to $1 million in mortgage debt.

    The House tax reform plan proposes capping the deduction at $500,000 in mortgage debt for newly purchased homes. But a deduction of up to $1 million in mortgage debt would be maintained for current homeowners.

    The Senate plan does not include changes to the mortgage interest deduction.

    Lawmakers are working to come up with one tax reform bill.

    “The operating assumption would be that the Senate’s provisions will be controlling,” said Jared Walczak, senior policy analyst at the Tax Foundation.

    Sen. Jeff Flake becomes 50th Senator to sign on to GOP tax bill Sen. Jeff Flake becomes 50th senator to sign on to GOP tax bill
    21 Hours Ago | 01:45
    The loss of SALT and mortgage deductions could result in a bigger hit for residents of certain states, according to Chris Raulston, a wealth strategist at Raymond James.

    “The bottom line is for families in these particular states that have not only higher state tax rates and higher state income taxes and real property taxes, the loss of deductions will impact them much more than families in states with lower state income taxes and real property taxes,” Raulston said.

    Effects of the changes would vary depending on the size of the family, their income and the standard deduction they would be allowed to take under the plan’s revised individual income brackets. Some lower and middle income taxpayers could be made whole if the doubling of the standard deduction offset the elimination of the personal exemption and itemized deductions, Raulston said.

    DRJ (15874d)

  70. Sorry about that. Here’s the important part:

    “The bottom line is for families in these particular states that have not only higher state tax rates and higher state income taxes and real property taxes, the loss of deductions will impact them much more than families in states with lower state income taxes and real property taxes,” Raulston said.

    Effects of the changes would vary depending on the size of the family, their income and the standard deduction they would be allowed to take under the plan’s revised individual income brackets. Some lower and middle income taxpayers could be made whole if the doubling of the standard deduction offset the elimination of the personal exemption and itemized deductions, Raulston said.

    DRJ (15874d)

  71. As I wrote (and if I recall correctly), noel claimed to be a Republican when he first started posting a few weeks ago. I suspect he’s one of those “as a longtime Republican, I am outraged…” letters-to-the-editor writers kinda guys.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  72. Well, I think we have to wait for all the calculators to come out to see if we in CA win or lose, but it seems like they got the big things right: no individual mandate and lowering the corporate rate.

    I think I will save money either way, itemizing or taking the new standard, but I would give up some money just to stop doing these @%$#&^ tax returns.

    Patricia (5fc097)

  73. I also don’t much like Susan Collins’ catch-up bill. Why should public employees be able to defer taxable income when the law for private employees is different?

    Patricia (5fc097)

  74. “Collins tossed in for public employees who contribute to their own pensions.”

    Too few are doing this (contribute to their own pensions) but the numbers are growing doing to fiscal reform and basic math.

    Defined contributions for everyone, not defined benefits. That’s one of quick and easy things we could change in public employee pensions that would be a winner all-around, except for the spoiled PEs who are dug in like ticks insisting that someone else pay for their retirement and medical.

    If they had done this 20 years ago, certain states would not be facing both insolvency and crumbling infrastructure.

    harkin (8fd90b)

  75. True that, harkin.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  76. harkin, I get what you’re saying, but as a public employee I contributed to my 401k with no matching contributions and to my pension way back when. So yes, it’s still too much of a burden for one state or city, but we had skin in the game.

    Patricia (5fc097)

  77. Also – absolutely awesome basing the headline on CBO projections, the same outfit that was wrong on so much on Obamacare.

    Forbes made a list counting the ways the CBO got it wrong.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2017/01/02/learning-from-cbos-history-of-incorrect-obamacare-projections/#518c3aa946a7

    “ObamaCare fans are cheering the latest Congressional Budget Office report, which appears to show that it will cost less and cover more people than expected. But that’s true only if you ignore reality.”

    https://www.investors.com/politics/policy-analysis/the-cbo-report-is-wrong-about-obamacare-webhed-the-cbo-gets-it-very-wrong-on-obamacare/

    harkin (8fd90b)

  78. Our host wrote:

    Trash from a trash party.

    Not stated, but presumed — and please correct me if I’m wrong, because this is a surmise based on past statements over a long period of time, not a direct quote: The other party is even worse trash.

    No?

    So my question: Who’s left, after you’ve applied your “trash” label to the full extent you choose, on the national political scene? Who’s left who’s not trash in your view, and why?

    Beldar (fa637a)

  79. speaking of garbage looks like even Herr Mueller has to take out the fbi trash every once in awhile

    Mueller Removed Top F.B.I. Agent Over Possible Anti-Trump Texts

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  80. Patricia – I have no problem with your 401k. You are doing it the way the average private sector worker does it.

    If you also contribute the same share to your pension and medical then I have no problem with that either.

    There are many public employees who contribute comparatively very little from their paycheck to their benefits. In WI, Scott Walker’s reforms caused protests and building takeovers for the demand that public employees pay even a nominal portion of their insurance premiums.

    Before reform:

    “Public employers contributed almost $1.37 billion to the state’s pension fund in 2009, while employees contributed about $8 million, or about 0.6%. (LFB paper 84 Wisconsin Retirement System, Table 28)
    From 2000 to 2009 taxpayers spent about $12.6 billion on public employee pensions, during the same period public employees contributed $55.4 million. (LFB paper 84 Wisconsin Retirement System,”

    https://walker.wi.gov/press-releases/cost-public-sector-benefits

    harkin (8fd90b)

  81. The GOP’s tax cuts legislation will do wonders for our economy: Reagan’s cuts resulted in an annualized 8% growth rate in GDP (Obama never hit 3%). A booming economy necessaryly provides opportunities for rapid upward socioeconomic mobility for eyeryone willing to work to improve their lives and the lives of their families and those of future generations.

    Which is exactly why Democrats oppose tax cuts. Obama and his accomplices in the national media and in the Democrat party spent 8 years trying to squeeze America’s middle class famlies out of existence (so they could pit rich and poor against each other in classic Marxist/Leninist struggle leading to the triumphant march to one party communist rule and to the reduction of a once free people to serfdom).

    Donald J Trump and the Americans who voted him into the presidency saved this nation from a continuation of Obama’s treachery which would have followed his departure from office in a Hillary administration as surely as absolute power corrupts absolutely.

    ropelight (cd3b37)

  82. though this bill could’ve been better, it could’ve been much worse.

    Whaddaya know, Haiku and I agree.

    On a scale of 1-10, from what I’ve seen, I’d give it a 5.1, with the +0.1 due to the individual mandate repeal.

    Repealing the individual mandate would be better than a 0.1, but it only creates a huge mess until they deal with the rest of Obamacare.

    One thing that may be clever about this: by putting the individual mandate repeal into this bill, it means the misleading-headline-grabbing effect of that (“25 MILLION PEOPLE WILL LOSE HEALTH INSURANCE!”) will no longer be part of the CBO score for any future bill dealing with the rest of Obamacare. That in turn may make a comprehensive replacement of Obamacare more palatable for Collins (I think Murkowski’s reasons for voting “no” had more to do with Medicaid expansion, so it would matter less for her vote).

    Ted Cruz is the one who made the individual mandate repeal happen, by the way. He has really been a workhorse for conservative legislation and amendments in this session. Pity we don’t have a smart guy like him with conservative principles in the White House, isn’t it?

    Dave (445e97)

  83. I agree, harkin, the favored groups and the big wigs get platinum pensions. But for the rest, I think the big problem is that people retire too early so start collecting at 50 and end up retired for more years than they worked. But I’m not a math person, so…

    I wonder how the contributions compare for CA vs WI. Would be interesting to know. One good reform that CA did was to give lifelong med insurance to retirees only if they worked 25 years, as opposed to the five years previously!

    Patricia (5fc097)

  84. “One good reform that CA did was to give lifelong med insurance to retirees only if they worked 25 years, as opposed to the five years previously!”

    Five years, and those who qualified previous to the change are still covered for life, as are their spouses.

    The yearly costs to the state fund is getting so bad even Jerry Brown seems to be waking up from the Dem/PE Union Corruption stupor, but so far it leaves the really egregious abuses by retired/older employees stand and modestly reforming the benefits of younger ones.

    “The state’s unfunded pension liabilities are currently estimated at nearly $60 billion. Its annual contributions to the pension fund under current assumptions are expected to nearly double from about $5.8 billion now to $11.2 billion in 2031-32.

    The sources of the shortfall are etched into history; they include a period during the late 1990s when CalPERS felt so flush from market gains that it gave the state a contribution “holiday,” cutting required annual contributions by more than 80% even as it endorsed increases in pension benefits. When the markets crashed in 2000 and again in 2008, a yawning gap opened in the pension fund. The options for filling it today are to raise taxes, cut services, or deny workers promised benefits, none of which is palatable.

    https://legalinsurrection.com/2017/11/gov-jerry-brown-california-should-be-able-to-reduce-public-employees-pension-benefits/

    harkin (8fd90b)

  85. the House did a noticeably much better job than the trashy perverts in mcconnell’s senate did that’s for sure

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  86. That in turn may make a comprehensive replacement of Obamacare more palatable for Collins

    it’s still super-important to vote out sniveling nevada weak-poop Dean Heller, who’s every bit as much of a cowardly low-class liar as John McCain

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  87. Haiku challenges my Republican credentials. If Patterico would allow an innocent little wager, Haiku could owe me $10,000 or so for my vacation fund. Wanna bet? I’ll prove my Republican registration, give Patterico a 20% cut and shut your trap all at once. Win, Win, Win.

    I am just not that type of Republican who is content to pay taxes while Paris Hilton does not.

    noel (b4d580)

  88. when you compare, you despair good sir

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  89. @67 nk

    I did. Waltons, Fords and Kennedys have trusts and foundations. People like John Kerry keep their boats in Rhode Island.

    Pinandpuller (b271c3)

  90. Five years, and those who qualified previous to the change are still covered for life, as are their spouses.

    Yes, terrible.

    Patricia (5fc097)

  91. nk says, “Read noel’s comment at 46. That’s nauseating. He thinks people have a moral obligation to manage their affairs in a way which gives any wealth they might earn to the government and not to their loved ones”

    Nauseating? One family has enough wealth to literally buy ALL OF THE HOMES IN NORTH AND SOUTH DAKOTA and you think its wrong for them to pay taxes?? Thats nauseating.

    The wealthy do not pay taxes until they sell their stock or businesses…. or die. Now, you want to give them the opportunity to avoid taxes in either instance. I pay taxes and so should they.

    Don’t feel too sorry for the billionaires. There will still be plenty left for the kids even if they have to pay taxes like I do. (Like billions!)

    noel (b4d580)

  92. If they ever combine genetic testing and the inheritance tax you blue eyed devils are really in for it.

    Pinandpuller (b271c3)

  93. The wealthy do not pay taxes until they sell their stock or businesses…. or die.

    For real? No wonder they’re wealthy. How can I manage that? Tell me! Please tell me! I won’t tell anyone else, I promise!

    nk (dbc370)

  94. #46

    Heirs spend a lot right after the check(s) clear.
    New cars, new wives, new homes, remodeling etc.
    I get trickle down income from people who have inherited their wealth every year, and the employees of various subcontractors are paid higher wages.
    I am in favor any law that incentivizes the wealthy to get their hands on more spending money

    steveg (e8c34d)

  95. It’s like Monopoly. You have to trade in four hundred houses in SD for one Wal Mart.

    Simultaneously my family has eight houses in WY and we have Wal Mart. Crazy, huh?

    Pinandpuller (b271c3)

  96. I am curious as to how noel thinks someone else being wealthy harms him/her or indeed harms anyone else.

    When you are possessed by the green-eyed monster, it all makes “sense.”

    Patricia (5fc097)

  97. And it is not that I feel especially sorry for billionaires. It is taxes I resent. I would not want billionaires to get leprosy, either.

    nk (dbc370)

  98. FredZ says, “I am curious as to how noel thinks someone else being wealthy harms him/her or indeed harms anyone else.”

    Really Fred? Thats the best you can do? You are going to pretend that you and me paying taxes while billionaires do not…. is equitable??

    Hiltons. Waltons. Kochs. Buffet. Soros.

    Why on earth should they pay taxes, FredZ says ….they do so much for us.

    noel (b4d580)

  99. Patricia says, “When you are possessed by the green-eyed monster, it all makes “sense.””

    I will say it slower, Patricia.

    If I pay taxes. Then. Rich people should. Pay taxes. Too.

    noel (b4d580)

  100. Whenever I have the opportunity to work for cash tips I call it Social Security, a tax cut and often my personal contribution to Reparations IYKWIMAITYD.

    (I adopted that from Mr nk but it’s not a zero sum phrase).

    Pinandpuller (b271c3)

  101. So you want a wealth tax. Are you going to still pay taxes on the $25 you won for second prize in a beauty contest?

    Pinandpuller (b271c3)

  102. Second?

    noel (b4d580)

  103. Is that called the Unearned Wealth Tax Debit?

    Pinandpuller (b271c3)

  104. ok now the wapo fake news propaganda sluts are just getting flat-out weird

    ‘Dreams do pay off': Black women cheer royal engagement

    pitiful

    and also a little racist i think cause they saved this story for the fatherless bastard prince and never ran it for the for reals one

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  105. I got that from Seinfeld, along with NTTAWWT (not that there’s anything wrong with that). The only two worthwhile things in that show.

    nk (dbc370)

  106. i’m with you

    i try watching the seinfeld and it’s never funny in the way what makes me laugh it’s more like it’s all a big series of “wouldn’t it be funny if” scenarios

    like the whole show was a storyboard for an actually funny show they wanted to produce instead

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  107. It’s way past time the British royal family got a little bit of diversity in their genetic makeup. The smidgin of Greek blood from the Mountbattens was stretched to begin with.

    nk (dbc370)

  108. noel hates him some 1%ers… all the income already taxed, all the taxes already paid to multiple entities of The Administrative State aren’t nearly enough, he says let’s get these fatcats coming AND going.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  109. Whose money is it anyway?!?!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  110. You know Phillip and Elizabeth are second cousins, right?

    nk (dbc370)

  111. Seinfeld reruns sparkle like diamonds in the pile of excrement that passes for entertainment on network TV nowadays…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  112. You know Phillip and Elizabeth are second cousins, right?

    it’s a dirty little family

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  113. also Cramer’s very hard to look at but that might just be cause of how he’s a big honking racist

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  114. Patterson is cited by Volokh today in the WA PO. Sorry for no link. Can’t figure that out.

    Ipso Fatso (2d1fac)

  115. Patterico!!!!!

    Ipso Fatso (2d1fac)

  116. Cramer runs off at the mouth and the stocks he touts are often losers. Kramer – on teh other hand – is pretty funny.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  117. Keep fvckin’ dat poultry, Rear Admiral!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  118. Thanks nk.

    Ipso Fatso (2d1fac)

  119. Yes, of course, the GOP are the real villains. The GOP is like Jeffery Dahmer. And the Greens are going around saying, hey, Jeffrey Dahmer isn’t so bad, you should let him babysit your kids. After all, the teenager next-door once smoked a joint so either way you are leaving your kids with a criminal, might as well go with the real criminal so we can all have a revolution.

    If this had only happened once, if those idiots had learned from Nader’s mistake, that would be one thing. Even then, “just move on” isn’t really appropriate because the world is still reeling from the Iraq War and the financial collapse and other consequences of Nader’s vanity run.

    But the Greens and Bernie-or-Bust types didn’t learn. They did the exact same thing again. Everyone who made the argument that there is no significant difference between the parties has their name stamped on this tax bill in boldface capital letters. And the tax bill is just one small fraction of the horrible things that Trump and the GOP are doing.

    https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029915212

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  120. Thank you, Ipso.

    nk (dbc370)

  121. Trump/GOP

    The beast with two backs has two heads too!

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  122. @82 gropelight

    Any cites for your Raygun revisionism?

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  123. The other party is even worse trash.

    No?

    A viable 3rd party shall arise if there is a god.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  124. Decoding Democrat tax talk:

    “Fair and equitable” — soak the rich.
    “Ability to pay” — soak the rich.
    “Closing loopholes” — ending your deductions
    “Protecting the most needy” — expanding their deductions
    “Tax cut for the rich” — the percentage of taxes the rich pay will increase, but not as fast as the should
    “Increases the deficit” — we won’t stop spending like drunk sailors in a wh**rehouse
    “Undemocratic” — Republican
    “Partisan” — Republican

    Kevin M (752a26)

  125. Reagan came into office proposing to cut personal income and business taxes. The Economic Recovery Act was supposed to reduce revenues by $749 billion over five years. But this was quickly reversed with the Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982. TEFRA—the largest tax increase in American history—was designed to raise $214.1 billion over five years, and took back many of the business tax savings enacted the year before. It also imposed withholding on interest and dividends, a provision later repealed over the president’s objection.

    But this was just the beginning. In 1982 Reagan supported a five-cent-per-gallon gasoline tax and higher taxes on the trucking industry. Total increase: $5.5 billion a year. In 1983, on the recommendation of his Spcial Security Commission— chaired by the man he later made Fed chairman, Alan Green-span—Reagan called for, and received, Social Security tax increases of $165 billion over seven years. A year later came Reagan’s Deficit Reduction Act to raise $50 billion.

    Even the heralded Tax Reform Act of 1986 is more deception than substance. It shifted $120 billion over five years from visible personal income taxes to hidden business taxes. It lowered the rates, but it also repealed or reduced many deductions.

    According to the Treasury Department, the 1981 tax cut will have reduced revenues by $1.48 trillion by the end of fiscal 1989. But tax increases since 1982 will equal $1.5 trillion by 1989. The increases include not only the formal legislation mentioned above but also bracket creep (which ended in 1985 when tax indexing took effect—a provision of the 1981 act despite Reagan’s objection), $30 billion in various tax changes, and other increases. Taxes by the end of the Reagan era will be as large a chunk of GNP as when he took office, if not larger: 19.4%, by ultra-conservative estimate of the Reagan Office of Management and Budget. The so-called historic average is 18.3%.

    https://mises.org/library/sad-legacy-ronald-reagan-0

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  126. oh. Kramer i mean

    K like in kkk

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  127. Dr evil, snorfle, his losing campaign in Kentucky is historic, he followed that up with a smaller pratfall in california

    narciso (d1f714)

  128. colonel haiku.

    Why don’t you try arguing the issues instead of making false accusations as to my motives. “noel hates him some 1%…. all the income already taxed”

    OK. Once again. The billionaires have NOT paid taxes on their wealth if they have not sold their stocks or businesses, right? The taxes are then captured after they die to make up for all of those capital gains they did not declare while alive.

    You think its ok for the wealthy to skip out on both capital gains and estate taxes? Then you want generation after generation to skip those taxes for hundreds of years?

    Lastly. Why should inheriting a billion dollars not be taxed while $50,000 in hard earned wages are taxed? This makes sense to you?

    noel (b4d580)

  129. the billion dollars was already taxed though picklehead, possibly even more than once

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  130. You know, Kramer/Michael Richards should have put comedic behind him right after the Sein finale. If you look and listen to him good, he could have been a much better Reagan than Brolin and others.

    urbanleftbehind (fc08fe)

  131. Urban I like your prose but sometimes wonder. I would appreciate your critique on my clarity.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  132. @134

    He made anile ramblings and called it “clarity”.

    Pinandpuller (11e1dc)

  133. Lets say you have a farm. You bought it for 300 dollars an acre some forty years ago and now it is worth about $7000 an acre. Pretty close to accurate in our area. The farmer has never paid taxes on the $6700 growth.

    Now, If you would have hired your son or daughter to work for you, they’d have to pay taxes. If you sell the farm, there are capital gains to pay. But if you wait until you die and give them the whole thing, they don’t pay and you didn’t either. Then…in twenty-five years, their kids won’t pay, then their kids… on and on.

    Whats not to love? What a deal! Now when it comes to “billionaires”, just multiply the advantages by roughly a thousand.

    Meanwhile, back here in salary-land, I am paying those taxes that our millionaire farmers and our billionaire friends don’t. Thank you GOP.

    noel (b4d580)

  134. farms are good for growing moos and clucks not for doing taxes all up in it

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  135. Focus happyfeet. Focus.

    noel (b4d580)

  136. Lol pin. I am surprised you show your face with or without temerity.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  137. Pusillanimous conservatives can’t handle tax heat so they boycott the thread of offense. Pussies galore..

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  138. 136… Let’s say a flat rate for everybody, no matter the amount of income. And using your example, tax the estate at the amount that $300 in 1977 equals today, which is around $1245 per acre. I think those 1977 dollars were the property of the person that bought the acreage, not the government’s.

    Sounds reasonable to me.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  139. hi noel i hope the tax bill passes!

    when they gonna do votes on it?

    here’s all i know this is from fox news:

    GOP senators will now meet in conference with their counterparts in the Republican-led House – which last month passed its tax reform bill – to negotiate a compromise bill for Trump to sign before year’s end.

    so that means it may not even happen til after Santa comes!

    and you know what there may not even be a conference committee

    the House could just pass the senate version slap a goose and call it a poop-a-doop

    it’s all very hazy magic 8 ball says whatever you do don’t trust these jackoffs they’re super sleazy

    but for sure what we know is there’s no sense discussing all the details til we know for sure what they are

    until then all we can do is pray

    dear Lutheran Jesus

    please to help these jackoffs do super-good tax policy amen

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  140. Barney Miller

    mg (60b0f7)

  141. Sounds reasonable to me.

    It’s rare that you offer any substance that is an original thought.

    Please stop.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  142. Focus on motivating the takers, the slothful, not on penalizing the people that provide jobs, or work at jobs that produce the products and services that make out everyday life possible and so much easier.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  143. you don’t get to be mean to him just cause you an admirable and him’s just a colonel you know

    there’s collegiality what you supposed to do hello

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  144. OMG. You can be funny, happyfeet! I am starting to like you.

    noel (b4d580)

  145. :)

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  146. Colonel Haiku says, “Focus on motivating the takers, the slothful, not on penalizing the people that provide jobs”

    “the slothful”?

    let me guess…. you are white, male, Southern Baptist and about 106 years old??

    noel (b4d580)

  147. teh rear admiral
    so fond of rhode island reds
    they fo’ eatin’ fool

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  148. So why did they complain about the deficit, if tax increases matched or even surpassed tax cut, re that misses piece, rhetorical.

    narciso (d1f714)

  149. sleazy warren “wells fargo” buffet:

    Billionaire Warren Buffett: ‘I don’t need a tax cut’ in a society with so much inequality

    what about your sleazy skank secretary though warren?

    you’re such a dick

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  150. “the slothful”?, asked noel with a dull, dead look, as he slowly turned to face the oncoming transit bus bearing down on him…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  151. Poetry or “free association”?

    Oh well. I will try to be patient.

    noel (b4d580)

  152. mistletoe sales are down this christmas season

    mg (60b0f7)

  153. here this will help

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  154. “Oh well. I will try to be patient.”

    Sorry, I got no time to be doctor. Take two enemas and call me in teh morning.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  155. So my question: Who’s left, after you’ve applied your “trash” label to the full extent you choose, on the national political scene? Who’s left who’s not trash in your view, and why?

    Patterico (115b1f)

  156. bad news tonight for the California GOP and the national GOP as well

    Mr. Patterico says he will not I repeat will NOT be voting for any Republicans in the future, and to hear him tell it they only have themselves to blame

    Cokie Roberts is here to discuss this development and what it means for the tax bill

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  157. Et tu, Cruz?

    When reality hits home for ideologues they can quickly get down-to-earth pragmatic. Sucks paying school taxes when your kids have long since graduated to adulthood, too.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  158. Our angered host wrote:

    Watching a roll call and listening to names like Menendez and Franken be called.

    The Senate is a garbage institution with garbage people.

    Thing is, they voted the way you liked! ‘Twas your favorite senators, Ted Cruz and Mike Lee, who voted for it.

    The snarky Dana (b9e22c)

  159. @128. Ben, The Reaganomix Credo– the trick in trickle down: If at first you don’t succeed, fail, fail again.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  160. Best realistic tax proposal: one single standard deduction, to cover basic living expenses, and a single percentage rate above that, with no other deductions, for everybody. This is basically the old Richard Armey flat tax proposal.

    The ideal tax plan: repeal the 16th Amendment, and limit Congress taxing power to individuals, not income, and thus everybody pays the same dollar amount.

    The economist Dana (b9e22c)

  161. bad news tonight for the California GOP and the national GOP as well

    Mr. Patterico says he will not I repeat will NOT be voting for any Republicans in the future, and to hear him tell it they only have themselves to blame

    Cokie Roberts is here to discuss this development and what it means for the tax bill

    How about a 24-hour hiatus from commenting on the site of the person whose opinion is so laughably unimportant? Sound good? Good! Done.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  162. @126. Nyet, Ben.

    Conservative ideologues are discovering to their horror that there’s not nearly as many of them across the land as their closed-circuit media culture has led them to believe. They can try– but inevitably it would likely be absorbed as a subset of one of the majors. But it would make for a grand if not decisive battle in the GOP civil war.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  163. T. Jones doing Prince
    never saw that coming
    helping heals
    heels like me
    gracious, happyfeet

    mg (60b0f7)

  164. abc hack ross sidelined 4 weeks without pay

    mg (60b0f7)

  165. Totally sympathize w/Patterico’s POV. Not to go personal, but consider middle age situations, carrying a mortgage, kids approaching college and so forth so any plans on loan interest deductions now up in the air on top of SALT changes and any personal planning for the next few out years can be all messed up by this. Recall back in the day when Reagan’s plan ramped up– worked out fairly well for family retirees but a fiscal ding to the family youngsters early in their careers. The only big winners in this will be, as in the Reagan days, the very, very wealthy.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  166. @167. Could have been a set-up, too, planting fake news bait, and he bit. Exhibit A: James O’Keefe.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  167. > I don’t feel guilty about it, by the way.

    Heck, no. No reason to be the last fool at the table. The moral of this story is that deficit scolds are useful idiots or cynical liars, deficits never matter to anyone, take anything that isn’t nailed down. “I got mine, Jack” is the operative rule of the nation.

    grass is greener (51fdf0)

  168. @163- Ahh, but remember, Dana- “Corporations are people, my friend…” — Sir Willard of Romney Marsh

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  169. The only big winners in this will be, as in the Reagan days, the very, very wealthy.

    Yes, but are they truly wealthy?

    http://www.nytimes.com/1981/02/20/opinion/the-truly-needy.html

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  170. Elections belong to the people. It’s their decision. If they decide to turn their back on the fire and burn their behinds, then they will just have to sit on the blisters.

    Abraham Lincoln

    Pinandpuller (f64c4d)

  171. Lest ye forget:

    GE Filed 57,000-Page Tax Return, Paid No Taxes on $14 Billion in Profits

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/ge-filed-57000-page-tax-return-paid-no-taxes-on-14-billion-in-profits/article/609137#!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  172. Thank the gods rumpublicans saved the system intact.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  173. This is what happens it you bet on skydragons:
    https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/GE/

    narciso (d1f714)

  174. Tax attorneys doing Hosannas after their prayers are answered.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  175. I got that from Seinfeld, along with NTTAWWT (not that there’s anything wrong with that). The only two worthwhile things in that show.
    nk (dbc370) — 12/2/2017 @ 10:59 am

    You aren’t on the Christmas card list?

    You will be…in five…ten minutes!

    I always yell Cartwright!!! at restaurants.

    Pinandpuller (f64c4d)

  176. I do wish a couple GOP senators (McCain and Flake, looking at you) had made their votes contingent on Trump releasing his tax returns, like every other modern president has.

    Would Trump have torpedoed the only legislative success of his presidency and put his own interests above the country’s? Of course he would…

    Dave (445e97)

  177. As dawn broke Friday over the undrained swamp, it looked like the tax legislation was still in trouble, with Republican Sens. Bob Corker (Tenn.), Jeff Flake (Ariz.), and Susan Collins (Maine) all wavering. ­­­And as of Friday night, the text of this bill, which will restructure the entire American tax system and its economy, had not yet been released to the public, leaving Democratic senators and outside analysts guessing as to which radioactive provisions would be in it, which would be left out, and exactly where various tax levels would be set. Sen. Claire McCaskill (D-Mo.) tweeted a photo Friday evening of amendments that would be voted on shortly and that she had to obtain from lobbyists rather than her colleagues across the aisle. The absurdity was almost unspeakable.

    http://theweek.com/articles/740525/gops-massive-tax-overhaul-monstrosity

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  178. SOP for the GOP.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  179. Imagine Obama pulling this Ponzi.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  180. If you look and listen to him good, he could have been a much better Reagan than Brolin and others.
    urbanleftbehind (fc08fe) — 12/2/2017 @ 12:16 pm

    Did you see Bruce Campbell in Fargo?

    Pinandpuller (f64c4d)

  181. 5

    She may have saved some of our sweet sweet property tax deductions though.

    As I understand it the standard deduction has been doubled, the property tax deduction is limited to $10,000 a year and the state income tax and state sales tax deductions have been eliminated. So it would appear that most people will not benefit from the property tax deduction because they will not have enough additional deductions to bring the total of their itemized deductions above their increased standard deduction. Is this wrong?

    James B. Shearer (951d11)

  182. @184. Wait and see what survives reconciliation.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  183. How the Bushes rolled

    The Interior Department is pressing ahead with a trade of coal-rich Wyoming land for a pristine view in Grand Teton National Park, despite criticism that the taxpayers will get cheated on the deal.

    Rep. Mike Synar, D-Okla., chairman of a House Government Operations subcommittee investigating the swap, said the government is giving away too much coal at the “fire sale” price of 2.7 cents a ton.In exchange, the government would receive a ban on development of the largest tract of private land in the Wyoming national park. Both the rights to the coal and the park land were valued at $5.6 million.

    Synar’s environment subcommittee, which was reviewing the exchange at a hearing Thursday, released documents concluding that taxpayers could lose up to $180 million in the transaction because the coal was undervalued.

    Steve Goldstein, chief spokesman for Interior Secretary Manuel Lujan Jr., said he expects the exchange to be finalized in the next few weeks despite the objections.

    He said the valuation of the coal was correct and based not only on “real value but the intrinsic value” of prohibiting development on 1,100 acres on the park.

    The 207 million tons of coal is under a 2,500-acre tract near Sheridan, Wyo. The park land is the JY Ranch, owned by businessman-conservationist Laurance S. Rockefeller.

    Rockefeller in 1987 donated the “conservation easement” – basically a scenic view that must remain undeveloped – to the Sloan-Kettering Memorial Institute for Cancer Research in New York City. The institute would obtain rights to the coal in the trade.

    Sloan-Kettering “plans to sell the coal interest and use the proceeds immediately to advance its cancer research programs,” Bruce A. Bugbee, a representative of the institute, said in written testimony for Thursday’s hearing.

    Rockefeller would retain ownership of the land and the right to construct one additional residence at a specified location.

    Source

    Pinandpuller (f64c4d)

  184. 46

    Follow me so far? Well, they have not paid significant income taxes on that wealth because they have not sold the company and “realized” that gain. So… nk, if your plan is adopted neither they….. nor their kids, grandkids, great-grandkids (on and on) will EVER pay like the rest of us.

    It appears the Walton family receives about $3 billion a year in dividends on their Walmart stock. Taxed at 20% that would $600 million a year in taxes. Of course it is possible they have arranged things so they don’t actually have to pay that much. But that is a separate issue, there are ways around the estate tax as well.

    In any case it appears the estate tax cut (except for doubling the exemption) didn’t make it into the final version of the bill.

    James B. Shearer (951d11)

  185. Billionaire Warren Buffett: ‘I don’t need a tax cut’ in a society with so much inequality

    what about your sleazy skank secretary though warren?

    happyfeet (28a91b) — 12/2/2017 @ 2:27 pm

    Well in some custody cases a guy who is supposed to pay child support(I mean, it’s almost always a guy, FM right?) isn’t working or maybe even living up to his potential in his career field. So the judge might impute his income and send him a bill. We could do that with rich people who take their income in dividends and aren’t living up to their taxpayer potential. Just send Wesley Snipes and Federal Marshals around to tell them about it.

    My grandma got to play bridge with WB before she died. I guess it was a great moment but I don’t really get it.

    Pinandpuller (f64c4d)

  186. Let’s face it, he lives in Omaha. How great could that be?

    Pinandpuller (f64c4d)

  187. As I understand it the standard deduction has been doubled, the property tax deduction is limited to $10,000 a year and the state income tax and state sales tax deductions have been eliminated. So it would appear that most people will not benefit from the property tax deduction because they will not have enough additional deductions to bring the total of their itemized deductions above their increased standard deduction. Is this wrong?

    I don’t know about “most.” I’ll benefit from the property tax deduction, because my sweet sweet mortgage interest deductions, added with my sweet sweet property tax deduction, will exceed the new standard deduction.

    But yeah, I still get hurt overall.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  188. Decoding DCSCA:

    Tax increase only on the rich: “fair”
    Repealing the tax increase only on the rich: “massively unfair!”

    Kevin M (752a26)

  189. @189- PP, Their steaks are tasty but not up to Trump Steaks standards, which are yuuuge and likely peppered uber alles w/Adolph’s Meat Tenderizer. Sehr Gut!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  190. It should also be pointed out that the personal exemption, a per-person tax deduction, has been eliminated so that standard deduction increase is pretty much a wash for those that take it.

    For a family of four that itemizes, however, there’s an additional $16,000 in deductions that you don’t get. However, there would be $2000 more in child tax credits, assuming the +2 are kids.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  191. Did you know that if you eliminated income tax entirely on the lower 75% of filers (a bad idea), it would only be a 14% hit on income tax receipts? That top 25% pays over 86% of all income taxes. It’s not surprising they get more back.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  192. A fairer limitation on the SALT deductions would have been to allow folks to choose which tax to deduct (income, property or sales). The current bill makes property tax privileged, and some states rely on other taxes more heavily. Not to mention the who “favoring property owners” thing.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  193. @191. Tally ho, see 174. “GE! We bring good things to life!”

    “There are no bad ideas, Lemon. Only good ideas that go terribly bad.” – Jack Donaghy [Alec Baldwin] ’30 Rock’ NBC TV

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  194. This just in (WaPo front page)

    Trump says he’s open to higher corporate tax rate, hours after Senate met his demand

    In remarks that could complicate sensitive final negotiations, President Trump suggested that he would consider significant changes to the tax overhaul plan, including setting the corporate tax rate at 22 percent, higher than the red line he had drawn for weeks. He did not explain why he would now consider a different rate.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/business/wp/2017/12/02/trump-waffles-on-corporate-tax-rate-demand-central-plank-of-gop-tax-plan/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_taxreform-316pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

    Kevin M (752a26)

  195. Gotta hand it to Trump. Whatta showman!

    Kevin M (752a26)

  196. 195, ding ding ding on that.

    urbanleftbehind (fc08fe)

  197. He doesn’t have a clue about what’s in the bill, or what the implications of various provisions are. He’ll say the exact opposite next time somebody asks him.

    Dave (445e97)

  198. This still has to make its way though committee in reconciliation and who knows what will be added, subtracted, beefed up, larded and tweaked before the Trump scrawl is applied.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  199. Mountain of coke times are near.

    urbanleftbehind (fc08fe)

  200. @200. He always argues and answers with the opposite. Next presser a reporter should ask why he won’t resign.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  201. @202. Remaking the 80’s w/o Reagan just won’t be the same; you need the original cast and a strong script for that.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  202. Lets say you have a farm…

    noel (b4d580) — 12/2/2017 @ 1:48 pm

    Let’s say you have a Ferrari…

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  203. @Patterico – there are a few of us in the state of Texas that agree with you even if we aren’t paying state income tax. Overall this is just going to end up being worse in the long run. And about the time all the exceptions run out they’ll be changing it again. I’m disappointed especially that it just makes the tax code even more complicated and not simplified as promised. We shall see what it ends up as in reconciliation.

    Marci (e5bb26)


  204. 205.Lets say you have a farm…

    noel (b4d580) — 12/2/2017 @ 1:48 pm

    Putting aside your massive ignorance of economics, what are you proposing in your little comment? Are you suggesting there be an income tax plus a “wealth” tax?

    So, let’s say you have a house and you bought that house for 300k ten years ago and now it’s worth 600k. Does the gov. force you to sell the house to pay your wealth tax? Must the farmer sell his farm? Are you taking into account inflation? How does it benefit America to tax farmers, business owners and homeowners out of their assets? Unless of course you want the state to own all the assets. Is that your goal, or just to hurt people wiser or more productive than yourself?

    What you are saying is basically you want a wealth transfer from the current property owners to …..?

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  205. Why should a lawyer get any deductions, as if they are like the rest of us.
    gimme a break and make em pay double for their industries sins.

    mg (60b0f7)

  206. I have completed the draft of a major post blasting this tax bill. It goes up at RedState when they say it does.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  207. Why should a lawyer get any deductions, as if they are like the rest of us.
    gimme a break and make em pay double for their industries sins.

    I know right? Use government to soak all the peoples wut we hate

    Patterico (115b1f)

  208. … because my sweet sweet mortgage interest deductions …

    You are right. I forgot about the mortgage interest deduction.

    James B. Shearer (951d11)

  209. “Mountain of coke times are near.”

    urbanleftbehind (fc08fe) — 12/2/2017 @ 6:59 pm

    Well I’ll be an SOB… you were one of those guys that tried to get hired as a stunt nose in ’82-’83 when they were filming “Scarface”, ULB!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  210. They thankfully shot most of that abomination in Los Angeles not south Florida, pacinos accent is notoriously bad, steven Bauer’s was mote authentic. There ear never a revenge stabbing like the rebenga, of a fmr regime official.

    narciso (d1f714)

  211. Robert loggia and Murray Abraham were also pretty bad, it was likely Pfeiffer worst film before Batman returns

    narciso (d1f714)

  212. About ww/odown was a Fe.loe who resembled montanas influence:

    https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/125213340/

    narciso (d1f714)

  213. As if they would waste the good toot on the no-name talent. And Bauers Que Pasa USA on PBS in the late 70s may have been the first and last time that entity gave a positive damn about the Cubans.

    urbanleftbehind (68fe8f)

  214. 2/3 of the way down:

    narciso (d1f714)

  215. They forget that castaway was involved:

    https://babalublog.com/2017/12/02/the-terrible-mess-in-honduras/#comments

    narciso (d1f714)

  216. OK, just this once.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3bjZlmsb4A

    A-WA – Habib Galbi – Official Video

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  217. Patterico,

    You need cheering up. I hope this helps a little.

    DRJ (15874d)

  218. 11. Dave (445e97) — 12/1/2017 @ 10:56 pm

    As far as I can tell, the individual mandate WAS repealed.

    That’s in the Senate bill, not the House bill. The two bills still need to be reconciled. Bernie Sanders talked about that taking three or four weeks. Donald Trump wants to sign it in three weeks. The Republicans may lose a Senator by then, but they can get by with just 50 votes and Mike Pence.

    It really substantially raises taxes for people in income tax states, especially for people making more than $50,000 because of the abolishment of the deduction for state and local incoem taxes and the abolishment of the personal exemption (replaced by a $300 tax credit, although there is the near doubling of the standard deduction and also the increased child tax credit. (if you get the child tax credit, you don’t get the $300 credit for that person)

    Susan Collins not only preserved the medical expense deduction, which was abolished in the House bill. she got it set back again to the pre-Obamacare level of being able to deduct medical spending in excess of 7.5% of adjusted gross income, rather than 10% set by the PPACA. Like many of the individual tax provisions, the increase from 7.5% to 10% expires after five or so years in order to fit the Congressional Budget Office ten-year score, and the Senate’s Byrd rule, which says it can”t increase the deficit in the years after ten.

    Sammy Finkelman (e70ce9)

  219. 31. Michael Keohane (947544) — 12/2/2017 @ 4:42 am

    The Congressional Budget Office has seldom, if ever, made a prediction about a tax bill or a provision in a tax bill that was accurate.

    Everybody knows this. In fact, the Republicans are counting on it. They expect economic growth to exceed CBO estimates so it will be easy to extend the tax provisions that they have expire.

    Also, they already know that the $300 billion they save by abolishing the individual mandate will turn into a pumpkin in a few months. They couldn’t pass this after about March because the CBO score would be different..

    Sammy Finkelman (e70ce9)

  220. A guy walks into a bar in West Texas and orders a white wine.

    All the hombres sitting around the bar look up from their beer and whiskey, expecting to see some pitiful Yankee from the north.

    The bartender says, “You ain’t from around here, are ya?”

    The guy says, “No, I’m from Canada.”

    The bartender says, “What do you do in Canada?”

    The guy says, “I’m a taxidermist.”

    The bartender says, “A taxidermist? What in the hell is a taxidermist? Do you drive a taxi?”

    “No,” says the Canadian “I don’t drive a taxi, I mount animals.”

    The bartender grins and hollers, “It’s okay boys. He’s one of us !

    Colonel Haiku (99ba6b)

  221. 60. Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 12/2/2017 @ 7:11 am

    You see, the cooling saucer is the Senate where the adults play at adulthood.

    Actually, the Senate bill’s much better than the House bill.

    But it also has the abolishment of the deduction for state and local income taxes, (except for the state and local income taxes paid by corporations, which remain a business expense.)

    Sammy Finkelman (e70ce9)

  222. DRJ @70:

    An amendment to allow the deduction of up to $10,000 in state and local property taxes will now be included in the Senate tax bill, Senator Susan Collins, R-Maine, tweeted on Friday.

    While this was in the House bill, it was not in the original version of the Senate bill.

    The Senate bill also makes no changes in the mortgage interest deduction, so second homes are still included and it goes up 41 million of principal, not $500.000.

    The Senate bill keeps the student loan interest deduction and I think also educator expenses.

    The Senate bill postpones the corporate income tax reduction from 2018 to 2019, bit does not go above 20%, even as a trigger. They couldn’t work out a tax increase that would be triggered by a higher deficit and so lost Corker;s vote. To get Flake’s vote, they had to phase out, rather than abolish the immediate expensing of capital expenditures by businesses after some point.

    To get Ron Johnson’s vote, and also maybe Steve Daines of Montana, they increased the deduction in income for pass through businesses from 17.4% to 23% (they rejected 20%) Johnson also got a promise he would be a the table during the conference committee.

    To get Susan Collins’ vote they had to increase the tax on stockpiled foreign profits from their planned 10% for cash and 5% for illiquid assets (payable over eight years) to 14% for cash and 7.5% for illiquid assets, (for profits made before the U.S. goes to a territorial system) * and also not completely abolish the alternative minimum tax. I am not sure in what way – maybe just keeping it for corporations. She also saved the property tax deduction up to $10,000 which, although in the House bill, was not in the original Senate bill. In fact, she got so many things that the Wall Street Journal editorial asked “Did she ghost-write “The Art of the Deal?”

    They also incorporated a bill authorizing drilling in Alaska to get Lisa Murkowski’s vote. It had passed out of her committee, but it needed to be in this bill to pass with only a majority.

    Mitch McConnell also made a promise of some legislation dealing with Obamacare and extending DACA. The last was for Jeff Flake. They plan to do it anyway, but he wants to be involved, and he doesn’t want this to be dropped.

    Marco Rubio and Mike Lee’s proposal to make the increase in the child tax credit refundable against payroll taxes (in exchange I think for making the corporate tax rate 22% instead of 20% failed 29-71. Sticking to 20% was maybe Donald Trump’s few bottom lines. Rubio and Lee may have gotten some Democratic votes – earlier they thought they would although they said the Democrats in question wouldn’t vote for the final bill.


    * There’s also a lower tax rate for profits made on intellectual property that had been transferred abroad if they transfer it back. Zero for 3 years, and then only 12.5% to 15.6% on future income (it rises to 15.6% by 2025)

    Sammy Finkelman (e70ce9)

  223. perhaps california is not the place to be
    make it 49 would you please
    when california leaves the union
    the dems will never recover the electoral votes
    please leave please

    mg (60b0f7)

  224. We are a banana republic.Thank you.boooshes, clinton, obama and all you lawyers that are screwing America sideways.

    mg (60b0f7)

  225. We are a banana republic.Thank you.boooshes, clinton, obama and all you lawyers that are screwing America sideways.

    mg (60b0f7) — 12/3/2017 @ 2:55 am

    It’s amazing it lasted this long.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  226. Wouldn’t it have been great if the Republican majority would have had the decency to leave the SALT, home interest, health and other deductions in the bill AND increased the standard deduction. Then it would have been a real middle class tax cut. But they had to pay for the Estate Tax cut for those estates above 11 million dollars, as well as huge cuts for the wealthy and corporations. And make those cuts permanent.

    They gave a cut to the middle class and then jerked it right back with the removal of the other deductions. Middle Class Charlie almost got that tax cut…. then lil’ Lucy yanks the ball.

    noel (b4d580)

  227. Moonbeam\Patterico\2020

    mg (60b0f7)

  228. Rev.Hoagie says, “Putting aside your massive ignorance of economics, what are you proposing in your little comment…. a wealth tax?”

    First, I am not proposing anything. You want to eliminate the existing taxes on the wealthiest estates. That move qualifies for “massive ignorance”….. unless you have one of those wealthy estates.

    So, which is it for you?

    noel (b4d580)

  229. Also, Rev.Hoagie, are you arguing for the removal of all capital gains taxes? Bonanza!

    noel (b4d580)

  230. Rev.Hoagie says, “Is that your goal…. just to hurt people wiser or more productive than yourself?”

    I won’t hurt you then.

    noel (b4d580)

  231. There I was. About to believe some stupid girl.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3gbisdtJnA

    gLAD someone stopped me.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  232. Our very pissed off host sarcasmed:

    I know right? Use government to soak all the peoples wut we hate

    You think we haven’t been doing that all along? If the Democrats are in office, it’s the top producers who get hit. Any system which taxes different people differently is going to do that.

    Even if we had what I see as the best feasible system, a Dick Armey-style flat tax, with no deductions beyond the standard — the Armey plan called for large personal exemptions instead — you would be taxed more highly than other people making the same income, who didn’t live in the Pyrite State, when your state and local taxes are included.

    The economist Dana (b9e22c)

  233. Economist Dana,

    The GOP used to stand for fairness but now it stands for getting even. You can’t expect everyone to sign on for that. We aren’t all programmed to want to get even above all.

    DRJ (0280d9)

  234. The last noel wrote:

    First, I am not proposing anything. You want to eliminate the existing taxes on the wealthiest estates. That move qualifies for “massive ignorance”….. unless you have one of those wealthy estates.

    Assuming that you are referring to the estate tax, estates have been taxed and taxed and taxed again while the money was being earned to build them up. Then, when parents want to do the right thing, and leave the estates they’ve worked so hard to build to their eldest son — I’m a firm believer in primogenitor — you think that, whoa, Nellie! the government should get to seize a chunk of it to give to welfare leeches?

    Of course, our unhappy host’s regional objections intrude in the estate tax. Identical estates in California and Kentucky would be valued very differently, with the ones in the Pyrite State being more likely to be subject to the tax.

    The Dana in Kentucky (b9e22c)

  235. “Calling his disciples to him, Jesus said, “Truly I tell you, this poor widow has put more into the treasury than all the others. They all gave out of their wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything—all she had to live on.”

    Jesus must have been “jealous” of the rich too.

    noel (b4d580)

  236. DRJ: the GOP was bound by Senate rules limiting any tax cut in dollar amounts to not be bound by the filibuster rules. With zero Democratic support, they had to stay under $1.5 trillion, or the tax cut wouldn’t pass.

    There’s actually hope for our humble host: conference committee bills are not subject to the filibuster, and if the GOP removed the elimination of state and local taxes there, the cut could — and would — exceed $1.5 trillion and still require only 51 votes in the Senate.

    Of course, I’d still oppose it, because my primary concern is the deficit.

    The politician Dana (b9e22c)

  237. The last noel wrote:

    Jesus must have been “jealous” of the rich too.

    I am always amused when the left start quoting a Scripture in which they do not believe.

    When Jesus encountered a crippled beggar, he didn’t give them an ever-refilling begging bowl — which would be along the lines of the miracle of loaves and fishes — but healed them so that they could go out and work for a living. He did not urge his followers to storm the estates of the wealthy, to seize their property.

    The left have always thought of themselves as Robin Hood, but Robin Hood was still nothing but a thief.

    The Catholic Dana (b9e22c)

  238. Dana says that the estates have been taxed multiple times. He also implies that I think “the government should get to seize a chunk of it to give to welfare leeches?

    Well….. no. Very wealthy estates pay taxes when they sell stock or businesses for capital gains OR when they die and pay estate taxes. So you want the wealthy to avoid taxes while I pay. Who is the leech again?

    noel (b4d580)

  239. Well, Catholic Dana, Catholic Republican Noel was making one very simple point…

    Jesus loved the poor. He basically acknowledged that they cannot afford anything because they are always behind.

    Leeches? Really?

    noel (b4d580)

  240. mg wrote:

    perhaps california is not the place to be
    make it 49 would you please

    Alas! When my Southern brethren attempted to leave the Union, the damned Yankees said that no, they couldn’t. The Yankees didn’t have right on their side, but they did have muscle, and thus prevailed. It appears that the arguments over the right to secede were settled some 152 years ago.

    Perhaps the aggrieved Californians would see themselves better off under the Reconquista? But, no, ‘fraid not, that would just turn California into more of a feceshole than it has already become, and gringos like our host might well fair worst of all.

    The Southern Dana (b9e22c)

  241. Still paying for the war of conservative choice, Iraq. $2 trillion and counting.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iraq-war-anniversary/iraq-war-costs-u-s-more-than-2-trillion-study-idUSBRE92D0PG20130314

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  242. The last noel wrote:

    Leeches? Really?

    You’ll note that I used the expression ‘welfare leeches,’ and yes, I meant exactly that: if you could work but are sitting on your fat ass, receiving a check from the government which was paid for by taking money from working people, you are a leech!

    Let me make myself very clear here: I have boundless respect for the guy who drives the ‘honey truck,’ cleaning out porta-johns on construction sites, because he’s doing a hard, nasty job that has to get done. I have respect for the people who work all kinds of nasty, hard, dirty jobs, because they are working to support themselves and their families.

    For those who could work but will not? I have exactly zero respect, and the only reason it is as high as zero is because I don’t know how it could be assigned a negative number. To me, seeing someone collecting welfare is like stepping in dog poop, dirty, nasty, smelly, and to be wiped off of my work boots in the grass.

    The Dana who worked for a living (b9e22c)

  243. Dana trashes California….. “But, no, ‘fraid not, that would just turn California into more of a feceshole than it has already become”

    So Dana, what lovely, wholesome state are you from?

    noel (b4d580)

  244. Noel RINO

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  245. <strongWIRED!

    Section eight of the deal reached by Donald Trump’s former national security adviser in the inquiry into Russian meddling in the US election is entitled “cooperation”. It specifies that as well as answering questions and submitting to government-administered polygraph tests, Flynn’s cooperation “may include … participating in covert law enforcement activities”.
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/dec/03/michael-flynn-plea-agreement-mueller-russia

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  246. Any system that taxes Americans at differing rates (‘progressive’ taxation in all its sundry and pernicious forms) is an abomination to the concept of democratic equality.

    Since the power to tax is the power to destroy, differential taxation is the primary means of creating inequality and that drives the institutionalized of second class citizenship.

    ropelight (dfb3ba)

  247. CONTEXT FOR CONSERVATIVES

    Bill Clinton was the 42nd U.S.President, serving from 1993 to 2001. He was the first Democratic President to win re-election since Franklin Roosevelt.

    Clinton is the most admired President in the past 25 years. Why was he so popular, despite being impeached? Primarily because his economic policies created a decade of prosperity. During his presidency:

    More than 22 million new jobs were created, more than any other President.

    Unemployment dropped from 7.5 percent to 4.0 percent.
    Home ownership was the highest rate ever recorded (67.7 percent).
    The budget deficit dropped from $290 billion to a budget surplus of $128 billion.
    The poverty rate dropped to 11.8 percent.
    What exactly did Clinton do? He enacted contractionary fiscal policy. First, he raised taxes with the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993, his first budget. The Deficit Reduction Act raised the top income tax rate from 28 percent to 36 percent for those earning more than $115,000, and 39.6 percent for income above $250,000. It increased the corporate income tax from 34 percent to 36 percent for corporations with incomes over $10 million. It also ended some corporate subsidies, taxed Social Security benefits for high-income earners, and created the earned income tax credit for incomes under $30,000. It raised the gas tax by $.043 per gallon and limited the ability of corporations to claim entertainment tax deductions.

    Second, he cut spending by reforming the TANF program, commonly known as welfare. The Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996 required recipients to get a job within the first two years. It limited the total time they could receive benefits to five years. The number of TANF recipients fell by two-thirds.

    https://www.thebalance.com/president-bill-clinton-s-economic-policies-3305559

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  248. Its always easier to say someone is a “RINO” or a “leftist” than to argue your point. I get that. I really do.

    noel (b4d580)

  249. Clinton’s big sin was showing conservatives like Reagan how to do it.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  250. Noel

    That’s how you know they lost argument. Don’t worry. Be happy.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  251. The Catholic Dana (b9e22c) — 12/3/2017 @ 6:45 am

    Very well said, Dana.

    Jesus’ point was that this particular woman put her trust in God, rather than mammon. This is His point when he tells the young man to “sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, then come and follow me.”

    Those who would use Jesus’ words for their agenda always want us to do the first, but never the second part; “come and follow me.” This is the tell that they are the pharisees* who place great burdens on the people, but exempt themselves. Until noel sells all and follows Jesus, hypocrisy will reign in noel’s heart.

    * like Ben Burn, who loves to quote Scripture (in which he does not even believe), in a vain attempt to place a burden on others.

    felipe (023cc9)

  252. It is your burden Felipe.

    You and all those Neo pharisees.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  253. I am a pro-life, pro-Israel, Republican. Now, am I qualified to quote scripture?

    noel (b4d580)

  254. The points have been made. You made a weak argument for punishing job providers and productive people with an estate tax, others argued why that is not a good idea. We all reveal who we really are when we share our thoughts and biases. Some of us want to soak the wealthiest – even more than they have been – others would like to see all treated equally, all with skin in the game.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  255. Dana and I. We are both Catholic. Maybe we should avoid the subject.

    noel (b4d580)

  256. noel (b4d580) — 12/3/2017 @ 6:54 am

    I am pleased that you are here, noel. For you present some of us an opportunity to instruct the ignorant, in faith and charity. Use your time here to profit from the instruction you are offered.

    “Jesus loved the poor. He basically acknowledged that they cannot afford anything because they are always behind.”

    Lesson 1

    Jesus, Who is God, loves everyone; no exceptions.
    God owns everything in creation; He has no need for “our” money.
    God, having given every soul free will, wishes us to freely chose Him over everything else.
    Giving “our” time, talent, and treasures to God is always an act of will. It is this act of will that God desires; that we have chosen Him over ourselves.

    It is my hope that you will profit from this lesson.

    felipe (023cc9)

  257. Noel is right. Christians should not be political…(see Garden of Gethesemeni)

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  258. noel (b4d580) — 12/3/2017 @ 7:36 am

    These are not the words, or attitude of a Catholic.

    felipe (023cc9)

  259. There is that “skin in the game” quote again. (Colonel Haiku)

    Let me tell you what I think that means. Rich folks need to get by without taxes because they provide jobs and boost the economy. Poor folks need to pay taxes because they don’t donate to the RNC.

    noel (b4d580)

  260. instruct the ignorant lol

    Carry a white cane?

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  261. Noel; Felipe is instructing you.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  262. Are you sure that your taxes will actually increase? It is true that the current bills eliminate the SALT deduction. BUt there are counter compensations, including (1) the standard deduction has been raised to $24k, which for many, many people will be more worthwhile than itemizing; (2) the alternative minimum tax is being eliminated; (3) the rates are being dialed down a bit and (4) there are signifcant child tax credits.

    I estimated my taxes under the new plan using an on-line calculator (actually two estimates, one for the House version, one for the Senate version). They actually went down by about 5%. And I live in a high tax state. In fact two — I work in NY, which has a very high income tax, and live in (and pay property tax) in NJ, which has higher property taxes. So I get the worst of both worlds. And yet my federal income tax will go down, though not by much.

    Now there is no doubt that each person’s mix of deductions and so on will vary, and some people no doubt will have a raise in taxes. But for many, it seems that there will be a net reduction.

    Bored Lawyer (fe5e63)

  263. Arrogance rather than humility is felipes name.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  264. Felipe says, “I am pleased that you are here, noel. For you present some of us an opportunity to instruct the ignorant, in faith and charity. Use your time here to profit from the instruction you are offered.”

    Oh bless me Felipe! Thanks so much for the invitation.

    noel (b4d580)

  265. Felipes true lesson is the example of hypocrisy on steroids. Pious..super righteous demigods.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  266. Poor Ben. I will be merciful and read you comments (at least the current few)

    felipe (023cc9)

  267. Well, I am disappointed. Mockery and no fear of God in your comments, Ben. I hope that one day you will sincerely seek Truth, for your own sake.

    felipe (023cc9)

  268. Your name should be Caiaphas.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  269. You should live in dread of god.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  270. Woe to you, leftwingers and RINOs! For you tithe hops and barley and mota and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and that which is equitable. These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others. You blind guides, standing in long queues to lay down with camels!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  271. I ask for God’s blessing to be upon you, noel. He loves you so very, very much. Just remember that no one is so great (you) that they do not need help, and no one is so small (me) that they cannot provide it.

    felipe (023cc9)

  272. Rear Admiral stumbles into a weak pantomime of a Victory Mince.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  273. Actually, Ben, I live in “fear and trembling” before God.” Do you?

    felipe (023cc9)

  274. Rear Admiral only fears and trembles when he’s backing that rig up.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  275. He loves you so very, very much. Just remember that no one is so great (you) that they do not need help, and no one is so small (me) that they cannot provide it. and yes I have change but none to spare now begone!

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  276. Ok. Back to the filter with you, Ben.

    I am off to worship He Who is, Who called forth my soul from the void. Have a happy and safe Sunday, everyone. Especially you, Ben.

    felipe (023cc9)

  277. Keep me blocked..I can’t stand syrupy hypocrites.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  278. You’re no hypocrite haiku. Your as*holery is out in front.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  279. First, panhandlers work. They work hard. I’ve never in my life worked as hard as they do, and for as little return. Would you like to spend all day on the street, in all weathers, approaching strangers for money, risking humiliation and getting only small change or, at best, small bills in return?

    It is true that panhandlers do no useful work. But they are not unique in that respect. Consider telemarketers, for example. Some people are richly rewarded for doing harm. Consider hedge fund managers and their role in the 2008 financial crash.

    David Graeber wrote a good essay about the growing number of well-paid jobs that are considered meaningless even by people who do them. He said as a general rule, the more obviously one’s benefits other people, the less likely one will be well paid for it

    I myself get income without work, and more than a panhandler is likely to get. I enjoy a Social Security pension, a company pension and income from savings and investments.

    I could say the Social Security and company pensions are rewards for past work, although plenty of people who worked just as hard and created just as much value as I did receive no pensions.

    But the income from savings and investments is simply a claim on the fruits of someone else’s labor. Buying publicly traded stocks and bonds, in my case, in the form of mutual funds, adds nothing to the world’s total wealth. It simply reflects the fact that, at a certain time in my life, I had more money than I needed.

    https://philebersole.wordpress.com

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  280. Now imo Drj is a good christian.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  281. Only a dimwit would tout panhandling.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  282. Nobody knows what the final tax bill will be. An enormous majority of people should benefit. I don’t know how it is going to affect me. I expect it to be very good for the country, mainly for the working people, something that scares the progressives no end. By the way, progressives have proposed the most regressive tax, a national form of sales tax. 1984 again.

    Raul Alessandri (223d20)

  283. I ask for God’s blessing to be upon you, noel. He loves you so very, very much. Just remember that no one is so great (you) that they do not need help, and no one is so small (me) that they cannot provide it.

    felipe (023cc9) — 12/3/2017 @ 7:54 am

    I will be judged.

    …For with the same judgment you pronounce, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.…

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  284. Only a dimwit could miss the point

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  285. Actor Randy Quaid to mount… easy now, Rear Admiral BeenBurned… a senate challenge to Rear Admiral’s mentor Bernie Sanders… “the (bull)sh*tter’s full”…

    http://deadline.com/2017/12/randy-quaid-bernie-sanders-vermont-senator-race-reality-show-1202218630/

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  286. property tax deduction is limited to $10,000

    This will really hurt people in Illinois. My relatives have property taxes anywhere from $10,000 to $20,000! Of course, they are all thinking of selling and leaving too.

    Patricia (5fc097)

  287. That virtue-signaling person Rear Admiral believes is making a thought-provoking point has always had an option to write a separate check, payable to the US Treasury in any amount his ginormous heart desires. As do other like-minded virtue-signalers.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  288. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/04/25/wild-boars-overrun-islamic-state-position-kill-3-militants/100876844/

    Who in God’s judgment can not see himself in this? I pray for them. Christ commands me to pray for them.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  289. Avoid posting hypocritically sanctimonious drivel.

    ropelight (dfb3ba)

  290. I dislike doing what I’m doing what I’m doing, Coronello. I was taught to pray under a lamp shade. But I am confronted with a religion that will block a street. The time for hiding my prayer under a lamp shade is over.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  291. Avoid posting hypocritically sanctimonious drivel.
    ropelight (dfb3ba) — 12/3/2017 @ 8:43 am

    Good advice.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  292. Steve…

    Proverbs 24:16 – For a righteous man falls seven times, and rises again. But the wicked stumble in time of calamity.”

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  293. Felipe said he is “glad that I am here” and this is an “opportunity to instruct the ignorant”.

    I will assume that you are a decent and honorable guy, Felipe. But does it ever occur to you, even a little bit, that it just might be the other way around?

    noel (6d69e0)

  294. OK. I am sorry. I started this. I admit it. But please God stop with the preaching.

    noel (6d69e0)

  295. noel (b4d580) — 12/3/2017 @ 7:33 am

    I missed this comment of yours, noel.

    Anyone may quote Scripture; believer and unbeliever alike – I am unaware of any qualification required to do so (beyond the obvious need for the text or memory of the words of the text).

    felipe (023cc9)

  296. noel, my use of the phrase “instruct the ignorant” is a reference to the Corporal Works (as opposed to the spiritual works)of Mercy. I apologize if you took offense. None was intended.

    felipe (023cc9)

  297. @234 Steve57

    I love old Shakira but how do you feel about a Columbiana culturally appropriating Mariachi riffs?

    Pinandpuller (133f9b)

  298. God stop with the preaching.
    noel (6d69e0) — 12/3/2017 @ 9:10 am

    The irony of this statement is most amusing. Sunday is a most appropriate day for preaching. and petitioning God for relief from it echoes the attitude of every demon caste out by it.

    felipe (023cc9)

  299. No, noel, I do not call you a demon. By the way, I accept your apology, and I hope you accept mine.

    felipe (023cc9)

  300. Felipe…. do you really think this is a church service?

    noel (6d69e0)

  301. More born-again Christian hijinks.

    Exclusive: sources with links to American and Australian intelligence report that the Senate Intelligence Committee’s letter to Mike Pence, demanding information on his knowledge of Mike Flynn’s links to Russia, Turkey but also to China, relates to Erik Prince’s paid work for Chinese intelligenthinks.
    https://patribotics.blog/2017/12/01/exclusive-erik-prince-worked-for-chinese-intelligence-pence-targeted/

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  302. you are making some very poignant comments today, Steve57. I like it.

    felipe (023cc9)

  303. Mulvaney was most famous for wanting to solve the national debt by deploying his sweeping ignorance of global economics as budget policy. Putting him in charge of the OMB was therefore like putting the Baader-Meinhof gang in charge of Lufthansa.

    Like the rapturist preachers who spend their Sundays rooting for the end of the world, Mulvaney believes in a paradise that apparently rests somewhere just beyond the smoldering catastrophe that would follow a default on the national debt.

    “I have yet to meet someone who can articulate the negative consequences [of defaulting],” he said during the debt-ceiling debate in 2010.

    Congress is home to a lot of third-rate lawyers and between-jobs bowling buddies of regional rich folk who got pushed into public service almost by default.

    Even in this crowd, Mulvaney has always been thought of by his peers as overmatched. When Trump made him OMB chief, the move was widely interpreted on the Hill as a Bannonite sabotage ploy, a short-cut to crushing government from within.

    Now this same policy cooler is going to be put in permanent charge of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. This, after a Trump-appointed judge denied the request for an emergency restraining order against his appointment sought by deputy CFPB Director.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  304. noel (6d69e0) — 12/3/2017 @ 9:27 am

    I think this is a Corporal Work of Mercy.

    felipe (023cc9)

  305. Trump keeps saying no collusion, no collusion, absolutely no collusion

    No one is mentioning collusion.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  306. @262

    There weren’t any Christians at The Garden of Gethsemeni that I can recall. Blasphemous Jews and Romans maybe.

    Pinandpuller (133f9b)

  307. A work of Mercy on Patterico’s Pontifications.

    felipe (023cc9)

  308. Nunes should be nervous..

    U.S. House Republicans are moving to bring a Contempt of Congress resolution against Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein and FBI Director Christopher Wray for stonewalling the production material related to the Russia-Trump probes and other matters.

    https://www.redstate.com/california_yankee/2017/12/03/house-republicans-move-hold-deputy-attorney-general-rosenstein-fbi-director-wray-contempt-congress/

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  309. 314

    Which one was you?

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  310. Did you guys know a Mashiah came in the 500’s BC? Believe it or don’t.

    Some folks called him a Messiah but I call him a Mashiah. By your leave Sammy and Kishnevi.

    Pinandpuller (133f9b)

  311. felipe (023cc9) — 12/3/2017 @ 9:23 am

    Oops! Instructing the Ignorant is a Spiritual Work of Mercy, not a Corporal Work. See? This is the honorable thing to do when one is wrong. Christians are not perfect, just forgiven.

    felipe (023cc9)

  312. They don’t make Christians like they used to.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  313. wonder if my tax dollars are being used to keep Jose Garcia Zarate away from the feds? Only in California…

    mg (60b0f7)

  314. So you were wrong once?

    See #320

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  315. Yeah, Mary Baker Eddy was like we should stay out of politics and spend that time on real estate. If Earth is Hades we should own as much as possible.

    Pinandpuller (133f9b)

  316. Some folks call it hell, but I call it Hades.

    Pinandpuller (133f9b)

  317. I saw your movie, Carl.

    felipe (023cc9)

  318. Hey ABB what you doing for Saturnalia this year?

    Pinandpuller (133f9b)

  319. I know right? Use government to soak all the peoples wut we hate

    Obamacare was pretty much that. The gainfully self-employed are anathema to Democrats. Damn independent people! Let’s tie them down to government and make them pay for the privilege!

    Kevin M (752a26)

  320. I have had both the fortune and misfortune of running my own business for over twenty years. During which time I have been mercilessly thrown hither and thither by government regulations, tax regulations, as well as local and State regulations.

    This is just more of the same. I am no longer outraged by what is my lot in life. I accept that in the matter of taxes, I must render unto Caesar blah, blah, blah. I trust that some one will tell me when I begin to show signs of Stockholm Syndrome.

    felipe (023cc9)

  321. Sigh. Except, not accept. Although…

    felipe (023cc9)

  322. Wait, what? Is that you John Wayne? “Is this me?”

    felipe (023cc9)

  323. They don’t make Christians like they used to.

    The don’t make admirals like the used to.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  324. I trust that some one will tell me when I begin to show signs of Stockholm Syndrome.

    But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother

    Kevin M (752a26)

  325. 267

    … (2) the alternative minimum tax is being eliminated; …

    Reports are that this isn’t the case in the final Senate bill (although it will supposedly apply to fewer people).

    James B. Shearer (951d11)

  326. Thank you to my brothers in Christ who are sharing the Word of God. May He help you find peace and reach others with His blessings.

    NJRob (b00189)

  327. 229. noel (b4d580) — 12/3/2017 @ 4:24 am

    Wouldn’t it have been great if the Republican majority would have had the decency to leave the SALT, home interest, health and other deductions in the bill AND increased the standard deduction.

    I saw a storysummary in New York Post that said the Senate lowered mortgage interest deductions, but actually only state and local income tax deductions are removed. Even if they didn’t remove them., increasing the standard deduction will treat people in different states differently. Some have to pay state and local income tax and some do not. Home interest is left alone in the Senate bill, both bills maintain the real estate tax deduction but cap it at $10,000 (the Senate bill originally cut it)

    Susan Collins not only got the Senate to put the medical deduction back that the House took out, but restored it (albeit with an expiration rate) to the pre-Obamacare expenses over 7.5% of adjusted growth income down from the 10% threshold that Obamacare had put it at.

    They also got rid of personal exemptions (including the double exemption for people over age 65 or legally blind) and replaced that with a $300 tax credit except for dependents eligible for the child tax credit, who now get $1600 in the House bill and $2000 in the Senate bill, with the original $1,000 (but not the additional $1,000) indexed for inflation. Yje added child tax credit comes with an expiration date in the Senate.

    Correction: Iwrote @225:

    Marco Rubio and Mike Lee’s proposal to make the increase in the child tax credit refundable against payroll taxes (in exchange I think for making the corporate tax rate 22% instead of 20% failed 29-71

    That actually would have raised the corporate income tax by less than 1%. Now that Donald Trump says he’s OK with breaking 20%and it couldeven be 22% maybe that will done in the conference committee. Mike Mulvaney was asked about Trumpp’s 22% comment – he said you know Trump originally wanted 15%.

    But it is house Republicans who want to stick to the 20% and also want to see the estate tax zeroed out at some point.

    Another very bad tging that is probably still in the bill is counting tuition redcuction given to graduate students who do work as cash income.

    Then it would have been a real middle class tax cut. But they had to pay for the Estate Tax cut for those estates above 11 million dollars, as well as huge cuts for the wealthy and corporations. And make those cuts permanent.

    The estate tax doesn’t cost that much. The big thing is the corporate income tax reduction.

    What they wanted to do was give a middle class tax cut and to pay for it they raised taxes on a minority of middle class people, falling heavily on people in blue states.

    Sammy Finkelman (e70ce9)

  328. I think there should be a tally of what the relative costs of each deduction is in agtegate, can the cob do that how about the joint tax committee?

    narciso (d1f714)

  329. It used to be said that the Republicans are always looking for converts, while the Democrats are always looking for heretics.

    The times, they have a-changed…

    Dave (445e97)


  330. 38.Rev.Hoagie says sarcastically, “the pain inflicted on the children and the poor because both demographics pay so many taxes”

    No Rev., they don’t pay a lot in income tax but they will surely “pay” with this bill. The real life impact on some of these families will be devastating. Not that a Rev. would care.
    noel (b4d580) — 12/2/2017 @ 6:15 am

    Again, the inference is I don’t care. You leftists don’t understand what caring is. I have shown how much I care all through my life with money and deeds. Even with lung failure until recently I ran a Meals on Wheels route, cooked holiday dinners for the poor in the area for my club, ran the Haiti fund at my church along with the hurricane fund. I tithe 10% of my income to my church and have so for twenty years. But because I believe the government has no moral right to steal my money by force and give it to anyone, least of all a person who will not work, noel says I wouldn’t care.

    noel, taxes are to bring in revenue to run the government, not run a charity. People can give what they own but government has to steal it from someone first before it can give to another. And that makes those taxes immoral.

    You need to try and keep in mind that just because someone disagrees does not make tem a bad person. Even if I did not personally give to anybody it is still my money to do with as I please and not the governments.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  331. 230. The politician Dana (b9e22c) — 12/3/2017 @ 6:39 am

    There’s actually hope for our humble host: conference committee bills are not subject to the filibuster, and if the GOP removed the elimination of state and local taxes there, the cut could — and would — exceed $1.5 trillion and still require only 51 votes in the Senate.

    But saving state and local income taxes is in neither version of the bill. Can they do that?

    They could also increase the corporate income tax. I don’t know what “pays fr” what. They could allow deductibility of state and local income taxes but cap it. At say $20,000. But that would annoy Governors.

    The corporate tax rate cut by the way, is effective with 2018 in the House bill but in 2019 in the senate bill. Which creates some very interesting possibilities of making money even though a business is losing money on a particular business proposition. (A profit making business corporation sends out a catalog in November 2018. It doesn’t bill till January 2019. Even if mailing the catalogs costs $10,000 and they get back only $9,000 they make a profit after taxes because the $10,000 expense saves than $3,500 in taxes while the $9,000 in receivables costs them only $1,800 in taxes for a net gain of $700 after taxes even after losing $1,000. Or they could buy goods in 2018 and sell it at a slight loss in 2019 – even in 2018 so long as they don’t bill or charge a credit card till January 1, 2019.. They should do something like that for low cost housing.)

    If they don’t manage to put back in state and local income tax deductions that cold be a disaster for the Republican Party. People also wouldn’t change their withholding (I don’t think the withholding tables reflect state and local income taxes) and be surprised in April 2019.

    Sammy Finkelman (e70ce9)

  332. As much as I hate to say it, though, Trump’s idea of a 22% corporate tax would allow a lot of givebacks to individuals, the first of which should be restoring the personal exemptions, followed by a SALT-choice provision.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  333. Here’s to Islam being right twice in one day.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=11&v=QPEe7uTuuho

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  334. It exemption, makes the tax code more complicated, this is how Tommy corcoran designed it, back in the 30s

    narciso (d1f714)

  335. narciso @342. What exemption?

    Sammy Finkelman (e70ce9)

  336. 287. Raul Alessandri (223d20) — 12/3/2017 @ 8:20 am

    By the way, progressives have proposed the most regressive tax, a national form of sales tax. 1984 again.

    I think the most regressive tax we have is FICA. There’s also the individual mandate of Obamacare.

    Sammy Finkelman (e70ce9)

  337. Property, real estate, student loan, carried interest, et Al.

    narciso (d1f714)

  338. What? The 21st century isn’t working out like everything you wanted?

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  339. I celebrate Saturnalia every December 25th whereas Jesus birth date is unknown it is believed it was not October as it was warm enough for shepherds to be in the field.

    We owe the traditional Christmas date 12/25 in accordance with the first Pope Constantine the pagan. Although he converted ostensibly to Christianity his subjects got upset. So he accommodated his people by melding christianity with paganism.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  340. Btw he led the Council of Nice a. You know, the people who decided which books should be in the Bible.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  341. It’s believed it was early October..sheesh.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  342. Narciso, OT, but a response to a post of yours in this thread on Friday night: is the AAC now to be known as the Post Office or Amtrak of college coaching (latest is Sumlin to UCF)?

    urbanleftbehind (468cdf)

  343. Read Admiral Tripe Face Boogie… https://youtu.be/pzicv2cmwac

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  344. It’s a Big Tent, but no conmen allowed, ConDave.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  345. I feel sorry for you, burn.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  346. But they was cold
    So cold…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  347. Lol. Haiku just got skewered by the history he’s ignorant of. More to come.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  348. Why is that Steve ?

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  349. Because if fisher moving to Texas am?

    narciso (d1f714)

  350. This is how much you want attention.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  351. Read Admiral BeenBurned… sad.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  352. Thanks for your compassion Steve. I’ll save it for when I need it.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  353. The accounts of the birth, leave out in happened in the time of August’s census

    narciso (d1f714)

  354. What’s that you’re saying narco?

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  355. Le coq sure is crewing a lot today, that much I can tell you.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  356. 358-N…yes. Sums was already fired, rumored for Haslam U., struck out there and to be offered by UCF after Frost going to Nebraska.

    urbanleftbehind (468cdf)

  357. 366, yes my favorite part of Palm Sunday.

    urbanleftbehind (468cdf)

  358. Pin, you’re a lot like Trump. Neither of you measure your words for clarity only for publicity.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  359. Douchewitz trying to salvage his reputation

    Dershowitz kind of snapped and underwent an Andrew Sullivan-style conversion when Obama let the UN resolution critical of settlements pass.

    He’s bent over backward to make excuses for Trump ever since.

    Dave (445e97)

  360. 366. They have the season wrong.

    It’s on Succos (Tabernacles) that we go around carrying palm leaves and saying “Hoshana, Hoshana”

    This is a detail unlikely to be wrong precisely because the people telling it didn’t understand it.

    Sammy Finkelman (e70ce9)

  361. “WHY IS THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY SUCH A CESSPIT OF RACISM? Black Dems see bias in response to sexual harassment cases.”

    https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/282336/

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  362. 370

    Dersh wants to be seen by Netanyahoo as one of the good US jews.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  363. Teh young BeenBurned knew there’d be a place for him in teh circus’s midget tent after his mum told him he’d been circus-sized at birth.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  364. Steve57

    Since you are commenting today I wanted to ask if you had seen a movie called The Sand Pebbles. It stars Steve McQueen, Sir Richard Attenborough, Richard Crenna, Candice Bergen and Mako. If you haven’t seen it, you should.

    I haven’t steamed back up river yet but what I gather in signals from the Admiral is that Christians should willingly turn themselves over to extremists, whether they be religious or communist etc. That’s another lesson from The Garden of Gethsemene, verily?

    Some folks call it Gaḏ Šmānê, lit. “oil press”.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  365. The last noel asked me:

    Dana trashes California….. “But, no, ‘fraid not, that would just turn California into more of a feceshole than it has already become”

    So Dana, what lovely, wholesome state are you from?

    Actually, I was born in California, in Oakland to be precise, and lived in Antioch through the second grade. At that point, my mother moved us to her home state of Maine, and, unable to find work there, then moved us to the Bluegrass State, where her sister had gotten her a job.

    I lived in Kentucky until I was 31, when I moved to Virginia for work. Fifteen years there, then two in Delaware, then fifteen more in Pennsylvania. While in the Keystone State, we bought a small farm in Kentucky as our retirement home. Three years later, I retired, and we’re back home in Kentucky.

    By the official poverty rate calculation, Kentucky is 47th, while the Pyrite State is 35th. However, by the new supplemental poverty rate being used by the Census Bureau, the state with the highest poverty rate is, you guessed it, California!

    The Dana who retired to Kentucky (b9e22c)

  366. https://www.forbes.com/sites/anthonynitti/2017/12/02/winners-and-losers-of-the-senate-tax-bill/#4091478b254d

    Tony Nitti , CONTRIBUTOR

    I focus on tax policy, court decisions and planning opportunities.

    Opinions expressed by Forbes Contributors are their own.

    “As tends to happen this time of year, I awoke this morning to find that a friendly Elf had mysteriously manifested itself in my living room. Only this time, Oscar wasn’t alone. He was toting along something else that, like Oscar, wasn’t here when I went to bed, but that had miraculously became a reality as I dozed: 479-pages of brand new tax law…”

    Sammy Finkelman (e70ce9)

  367. Hawaii has the lowest land tax in the nation.

    mg (60b0f7)

  368. Casualty losses and unreimbursed business expenses are abolished?

    Casualty losses doesn’t usually make up for thieves and hurricanes but really? And why should unreimbursed business expenses not be deduced. (Both are I think limited to only amounts over 2% of AGI)

    Sammy Finkelman (e70ce9)

  369. There’s an interesting YouTube guy named Gad Saad. He’s ethnically Jewish, from Lebanon originally. His family fled to Canada to escape anti-semitism (I know, FM, right?). He’s an atheist now. An evolutionary behaviorist. And I guess his name means “oil”?

    Gad Saad Talks to Dave Rubin

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  370. Hawaii has the lowest land tax in the nation.

    mg (60b0f7) — 12/3/2017 @ 12:51 pm
    They keep making more.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  371. No i would say his position is consistent re prisecutorial overreach:

    http://www.nytimes.com/books/98/12/27/bib/981227.rv034104.html

    narciso (d1f714)

  372. I lived in Kentucky until I was 31, when I moved to Virginia for work. Fifteen years there, then two in Delaware, then fifteen more in Pennsylvania. While in the Keystone State, we bought a small farm in Kentucky as our retirement home. Three years later, I retired, and we’re back home in Kentucky.

    The Dana who retired to Kentucky (b9e22c) — 12/3/2017 @ 12:43 pm

    So you know all about touchback immigration and The Holy Hand Grenade.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  373. I repeat..Douchewitz.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  374. Socialists to the left of me, Roy Moore to the right, here I am…

    noel (b4d580)

  375. So you know all about touchback immigration and The Holy Hand Grenade.

    No but I’ve heard of Brokeback Mountain and the Holier-than-thou brigade.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  376. What about Chappaquiddick?

    3. A President can’t keep track of everything his staff does.

    4. The press is blowing the whole thing up.

    5. Whatever Nixon did was for national security.

    6. The Democrats are sore because they lost the election.

    7. Are you going to believe a rat like John Dean or the president of the United States?

    8. Wait till all the facts come out.

    9. What about Chappaquiddick?

    10. If you impeach Nixon, you get Agnew.

    11. The only thing wrong with Watergate is they got caught.

    12. What about Daniel Ellsberg stealing the Pentagon Papers?

    13. It happens in Europe all the time.

    14. People would be against Nixon no matter what he did.

    15. I’d rather have a crook in the White House than a fool.

    16. LBJ used to read FBI reports every night.

    17. What’s the big deal about finding out what your opposition is up to?

    18. The president was too busy running the country to know what was going on.

    19. What about Chappaquiddick?

    20. People that live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.

    21. McGovern would have lost anyway.

    22. Maybe the Committee for the Re-Election of the President when a little too far, but they were just a bunch of eager kids.

    23. I’m not for breaking the law, but sometimes you have to do it to save the country.

    24. Nixon made a mistake. He’s only human.

    25. Do you realize what Watergate is doing to the dollar abroad?

    26. What about Harry Truman and the deep freeze scandal?

    27. Franklin D. Roosevelt did a lot of worse things.

    28. I’m sick and tired of hearing about Watergate and so is everyone else.

    29. This thing should be tried in the courts and not on TV.

    30. When Nixon gives his explanation of what happened there are going to be a lot of people in this country with egg on their faces.

    31. My country right or wrong.

    32. What about Chappaquiddick?

    33. I think the people who make all this fuss about Watergate should be shot.

    34. If the Democrats had the money they would have done the same thing.

    35. I never did trust Haldeman and Ehrlichman.

    36. If you say one more word about Watergate I’ll punch you in the nose.

    A. If the person is bigger than you: “If you say one more word about Watergate I’m leaving this house.”

    B. If it’s your own house and the person is bigger than you: “What about Chappaquiddick?”

    Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/syndicated-columnists/article187662578.html#storylink=cpy

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  377. 344

    I think the most regressive tax we have is FICA. …

    Actually it (at least the social security portion) isn’t regressive at all when you take the benefits earned into account.

    James B. Shearer (951d11)

  378. This guy wins Jew of the Week over Dersh, Bibi and all other comers: http://mobile.twitter.com/SInow/status/937428755232018434

    urbanleftbehind (468cdf)

  379. Socialists to the left of me, Roy Moore to the right, here I am…

    noel (b4d580) — 12/3/2017 @ 1:41 pm

    Now you’re starting to get it!

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  380. 387. What about Bobby Kennedy authorizing the bugging of Martin Luther King?

    What about Nixon’s tax returns being audited?

    Sammy Finkelman (e70ce9)

  381. turn California into more of a feceshole than it has already become

    I strolled along the beach in my shorts on Thanksgiving Day. But the terrible SoCal winter is upon us — some nights the temp will drop into the high 40s and days get down to maybe 60.

    Just terrible.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  382. What about Paula Jones’ tax returns being audited? Does that count?

    Kevin M (752a26)

  383. Chicago’s the same temps…for a couple days more at least.

    urbanleftbehind (468cdf)

  384. Liberals always play the Nixon card, before that it wee the hoover card.

    narciso (d1f714)

  385. Mr M wrote:

    I strolled along the beach in my shorts on Thanksgiving Day. But the terrible SoCal winter is upon us — some nights the temp will drop into the high 40s and days get down to maybe 60.

    Just terrible.

    And I remember winters in Antioch: never cold enough for snow, but cool and rainy and generally miserable.

    Today on the farm it was 71º F, and I worked outside clearing some brush.

    The Dana who lived in the Pyrite State until second grade (b9e22c)

  386. Northern Cal is much colder.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  387. Chicago’s the same temps…for a couple days more at least.

    Those were the mid-winter temps. Right now the nights are about 55.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  388. 305. That’s not a calculator. It’s tables or graphs. It does it by income group, (nationwde average) but not by situation.

    Sammy Finkelman (e70ce9)

  389. Rev.Hoagie says, “the government has no moral right to steal my money by force and give it to anyone…”

    Brace yourself Rev.Hoagie cuz…. thats what governments do.

    noel (b4d580)

  390. I am also sure that you do a lot of good work at your church, Rev.Hoagie. In all sincerity, I applaud you for that.

    noel (b4d580)

  391. This is why we can’t have nice things. Because some envious, resentful assholes, elevating their jealousy and small-mindedness into a faux morality, will elect governments who will take them away from us.

    nk (dbc370)

  392. Hey, I don’t like getting taxed either but when this Congress gives me a temporary $500 tax break at the same time they are giving EACH Trump kid a 200 million dollar break with this estate tax repeal, I aint happy.

    And please, for the last time, please don’t tell me they already paid taxes on that wealth. They. Did. Not.

    noel (b4d580)

  393. Five hundred years from now someone could say, “hey, why don’t those billionaires pay taxes like the rest of us?”

    Well, little people, thats because in 2017, in their infinite wisdom, the Republicans decided that billionaires would not have to pay estate taxes and, since then, generation after generation have passed all those growing dynasties on…. without paying income or estate taxes. Each time getting a new “basis” which updates the valuation of that property at current value…. so they can sell some of it without capital gains taxes either.

    Isn’t that nice?

    noel (b4d580)

  394. “And I remember winters in Antioch: never cold enough for snow, but cool and rainy and generally miserable.”

    All Californians should be happy for that rain, we’d be SOL without it. NorCal is generally never miserable. Miserable is SoCal, with its outlandish price of housing and staring at the rear end of the car in front of you for several hours each work day, if you commute to work. That’s only a problem in the Bay Area up north.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  395. Whose money is it, anyway. There will never be enough in the way of taxes in the Democrats’ world. Penalizing the productive, who pay the greatest share of taxes, is game for fools.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  396. You should write one of those “as a longtime Republican, I am outraged about __________…” letters to the NYT, noel.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  397. Like warren buffet, bill cares and Zuckerberg have been dutifully paying their estate tax, snorfle. It goes into foundations.

    narciso (d1f714)

  398. The lament of every loser and evolutionary failure: “It’s not fair!”

    Go [rhymes with duck] yourselves. People may have a moral duty to provide for their children; they have no moral duty to provide for your children.

    nk (dbc370)

  399. OK Haiku, here goes…

    As a longtime Republican, I am outraged by Roy Moore….. and billion dollar tax cuts for the wealthy being pawned off as a middle class tax cut…. and the stupidity of folks who think either is fine.

    noel (b4d580)

  400. nk says, “The lament of every loser and evolutionary failure: “It’s not fair!””

    OK Statistically speaking, I am very likely making a lot more money than you. So, if you have to pay your taxes and mine both, you wouldn’t complain? Is that what I am hearing?

    Cuz I really don’t want to pay taxes while Ivanka, Don and Eric do not. Unlike you, I do think that is “unfair”.

    noel (b4d580)

  401. Our Windy City barrister wrote:

    The lament of every loser and evolutionary failure: “It’s not fair!”

    Go [rhymes with duck] yourselves. People may have a moral duty to provide for their children; they have no moral duty to provide for your children.

    Bravo!

    Ever since Karl Marx, the left have had the odd notion that people would somehow treat everyone else’s children the same as they treat their own. After all, if the dictatorship of the proletariat meant anything to Herr Marx, it was that no one would seek personal advantage for himself, or advantage for his children. All that formulation took was ignoring all of human nature.

    The Dana who appreciates nk (b9e22c)

  402. The lament of every loser and evolutionary failure: “It’s not fair!”

    The left always act as though “All men people are created equal” is their creed, but it’s ridiculous: wee are not identical, and some of us are created with traits which give us advantages over others: higher intelligence, greater height, better looks, more physical ability, and so on. Then, after the accidents of genetics are given, we have some who simply work harder than others.

    yet the left somehow seem to believe that all should be rewarded equally, regardless of their performance. No, no, no!

    The Dana who very much appreciates nk (b9e22c)

  403. OK Statistically speaking, I am very likely making a lot more money than you.So, if you have to pay your taxes and mine both, you wouldn’t complain? Is that what I am hearing?

    For not picking my parents more carefully? Or the place and time of my birth? Or my chosen career path? That’s nobody’s fault but my own.

    nk (dbc370)

  404. OK noel , here goes…

    As a long time Republican I cannot understand why people who disagree with anothers take on taxes find it necessary to demagogue that they are stupid or don’t care about the poor. Can’t you make your case based on facts rather than the usual leftist name calling? I am also outraged, outraged I tell you, that you keep insisting Ivanka, Don and Eric don’t pay taxes. Have you copies of their taxes by which to prove this constant assertion? You do realize there are millions of people in this country who pay no taxes whilst you do, some who even get refunds on taxes not paid.

    Based on what statistics are you “very likely making more money” than nk? And couldn’t those same stats be used in reverse since you actually don’t know his income?

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  405. CEOs definitely work 300 times harder than the average employee in their companies.

    Davethulhu (6a4a84)


  406. 417.CEOs definitely work 300 times harder than the average employee in their companies.

    People are not paid based on how “hard” they work but by the value of the work they perform. Go home, study economics then com back and play again.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  407. Thank you, Dana. I appreciate you, too. But we are both in danger of being excommunicated from humanity by the Assembly of Egalitarians. 😉

    nk (dbc370)

  408. My piece goes up on RedState tomorrow morning, and I will cross-post it here an hour or more after its publication at RedState. It’s 2840 words and I have worked hard on it.

    It goes out on a pretty big Townhall mailing list. This is a chance for your host to raise his profile a bit. Sharing would be appreciated.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  409. Rev.Hoagie…. I said that supporting Roy Moore or the deceptions in this tax bill is “stupid”. Yes. Still think so.

    You ask if I have seen the Trump’s kids’ taxes? I was referring to the estate tax impact on the Trump kids but somehow I doubt we’ll ever see any Trump tax returns, father or kids.

    You know how Donald likes to keep his promises. Did you believe him when he said he’d release those returns? Uhh.. that would have been stupid too.

    noel (b4d580)

  410. higher intelligence, greater height, better looks, more physical ability, and so on. Then, after the accidents of genetics are given, we have some who simply work harder than others.

    You left out the #1 predictor of wealth: Having wealthy parents.

    Davethulhu (6a4a84)

  411. CEOs definitely work 300 times harder than the average employee in their companies.

    Nope. It’s what the stockholders and boards of directors want to pay the CEOs and average employees to get them to work for them.

    nk (dbc370)

  412. Rev.Hoagie says, “People are not paid based on how “hard” they work but by the value of the work they perform. Go home, study economics…”

    Did you tell us how that applies to tax-free billion dollar inheritances? Repeated over the centuries, especially if Republicans in Congress get their way.

    noel (b4d580)

  413. I had a noel-esque schadenfreude this afternoon when my wife and I were leaving for dinner. I live on a corner and my driveway is almost at the intersection. As I came around from the garages I noticed a white sports car in my driveway. When we got down there I saw it was a new Tesla. I wondered why a Tesla was on my property and as I got out of my car to investigate my neighbor came driving up. Seems his latest ostentatious vehicle purchase had it’s battery die right on my drive. This guy has a Rolls Royce Ghost, a Porsche Cayanne and the Tesla was for his wife. I wished him luck and we drove off to dinner. When we got back the Tesla was gone. I chuckled all through dinner at all the cussing and yelling that must have transpired while we dined.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  414. Eh, if he can afford those cars, he can afford a tow-truck or a portable charger without getting stressed over it.

    Dave (445e97)

  415. Patterico in RedState tomorrow. I’m not jealous.

    noel (b4d580)

  416. Well, a little. But I don’t want to get em going.

    noel (b4d580)

  417. If it had been my driveway, I could have lent him my generator and power cord. 5,000 watts enough for a Tesla?

    nk (dbc370)

  418. He didn’t even give us, his friends, a chance to look over his big article and provide feedback before sending it off to the mega-site.

    I’m hurt. :)

    Dave (445e97)

  419. Schadenfreude? Hoagie. Stop that. Just Freud…. when I am talking to you.

    noel (b4d580)

  420. 420. At 209 (yesterday at 8:30 PST) you said you had already completed it. Did you do some more work on it afterwards? If not, why the long wait? Does Redstate try to stagger out its posts, or were you trying to release it simultaneously in several ways??

    Some news about the bill that wasn’t mentioned here: At 9 pm Friday night Senator Schumer made a motion to adjourn until Monday morning. (Of course this was partisan) It was voted down and the bill was passed sometime around 3 am in the morning. That’s when Donald Trump’s phone rang.

    When the Saturday newspapers went to press it looked like it was going to pass, but that’s all they could say at that point..

    The only Republican Senator to vote against it was Bob Corker because the Senate Parliamentarian had ruled out of order or something (why?) his proposal to raise taxes if a large deficit was projected in some future year (details are not easily mentioned, but this would be interesting.)

    Looks like Trump agreeing to a continuing resolution for three months in September really did enable a tax bill to pass, which I would have thought never would happen. Of course it helped that since this concerned revenue and spending, pretty much any relevant amendments were in order, which wasn’t the case with the health care bill. They still had to cut policy to fit the CBO scoring, even if they didn’t believe it.

    The next government shutdown comes at the close of business December 8. There will probably be a two week extension (the can’t agree on anything else that fast) and they’ll try for a longer one later. Nothing will go past the expiration of DACA in March unless DACA is extended.

    Sammy Finkelman (e70ce9)

  421. 344 388. That’s true. The benefit calculation is about as opposite as you can be. Theer are three levels of value.

    Sammy Finkelman (e70ce9)

  422. At 209 (yesterday at 8:30 PST) you said you had already completed it. Did you do some more work on it afterwards? If not, why the long wait? Does Redstate try to stagger out its posts, or were you trying to release it simultaneously in several ways??

    It’s supposed to go out to a large email list, so I have edited the very long post quite a bit. It’s gone through more than 80 revisions, I believe. When writing for a larger audience my usual OCD nature intensifies. (My usual posts undergo more revisions than you would probably guess, although errors do slip through when I am in a hurry.)

    This is a project coordinated with Townhall and it’s not time-sensitive in the same way that breaking news is, so publication in the early morning hours of a Monday morning after a major Saturday morning vote is not too much of a delay.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  423. And yes, RedState does stagger its posts at least every half hour, or every 15 minutes for nonfeatured posts. We have a calendar to coordinate it all. I publish posts here, as a general rule, at least an hour after they publish at RedState — for posts that are cross-posted. My more idiosyncratic offerings are exclusive to the crowd here.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  424. 411… you are so full of shi beans, noel

    Colonel Haiku (11439f)

  425. Long time republicans such as noel – has been the problem in America for decades.

    mg (60b0f7)

  426. Ward, don’t be so hard on The Beaver.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  427. Could you be a little more specific guys? Just saying I am a “problem” or “full of beans” doesn’t give me much to go on here.

    noel (b4d580)

  428. I strolled along the beach in my shorts on Thanksgiving Day. But the terrible SoCal winter is upon us — some nights the temp will drop into the high 40s and days get down to maybe 60.

    Just terrible.

    Kevin M (752a26) — 12/3/2017 @ 5:01 pm

    All the streets are brown (All the streets are brown)

    And this guy is gay (and this guy is gay, NTTAWWT)

    I’ve been hit up for change ten times today(Ten times today)

    I’d have low taxes if I wasn’t in CA(wasn’t in CA)

    No Income Tax State Dreamin’

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  429. Don’t call me beaver. OK call me Beaver if you want but “full of beans” is a little insensitive.

    noel (b4d580)

  430. Everybody loves Beaver. Well, maybe not everybody. But, you guys would get all wound up if I’d elaborate.

    noel (b4d580)

  431. Teddy’s financial-disclosure reports reveal that his net worth more than doubled from any previous filing. In 2006, according to Roll Call, “the senator listed five family trust funds worth $45 million to $150 million. Kennedy estimated that those trusts distributed $500,000 to $5 million in annual income.” Prior to 2006, Teddy’s filings listed assets at less than $20 million. (Congressional rules permit members to report assets in broad categories, with a top category of “over $50 million,” and don’t require reporting of assets not used to produce income. As a result, any estimate of net worth based on them is necessarily approximate and typically underestimates the actual total.)

    Since only the Kennedy financial advisers know the details of the mostly blind trusts, it’s impossible to know what made them more than double in value over a single year. What’s clear is that Teddy passed away near the peak of his financial net worth. His 2008 filings—which included information on his finances through December of last year—continued to show assets between $45 million and $150 million.

    Ted Kennedy’s high-performing trusts were the brainchild of his father, Joe, whose plan for the millions he had earned from scratch was to manage his family’s holdings from the grave with a long-term strategy: have their wealth serve as the base for consolidating the power for several generations of Kennedys. Joe set up his first trust fund for Rose and the children then-born in 1926. Another was created in 1936, and yet another in 1949. The last one was the trust through which Kennedy planned to distribute most of his wealth to his 28 grandchildren. At the time of Joe’s death, in 1969, it was estimated he left about $400 million, much of it from real-estate speculation, including some of the land that now comprises Lincoln Center. There never was a highly visible Kennedy family business. (Although the common perception is that the Kennedys made their fortune through liquor distribution, Joe had left that in 1946.)

    Who Gets Teddy’s Millions(Hint noel it’s probably not who you think)

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  432. I strolled along the beach in my shorts on Thanksgiving Day. But the terrible SoCal winter is upon us — some nights the temp will drop into the high 40s and days get down to maybe 60.

    Just terrible.

    Kevin M (752a26) — 12/3/2017 @ 5:01 pm

    Maybe 50 people have told me to “move” because I am not thrilled about SALT deductions being repealed.

    They fail to understand that tax policy is not the only reason people live where they do.

    If I whined that the overall mix of factors favored living elsewhere, but woe is me I cannot move, then it would make sense for people to advise me to move,

    But that is not my complaint. Even with this garbage tax bill, California is the best mix of factors for me. Everyone is different.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  433. What? Leave me out of it. I was nowhere near the Kennedy compound that night. Jeesh. Was I even born?

    noel (b4d580)

  434. JFK did drop tax rates. I wonder if there was a correlation

    When Jack became president, he provided the first public insight into the Kennedy holdings, that he was entitled to family trust funds worth about $10 million. He got $500,000 a year from the trusts, which after heavy taxes left him just over $100,000 to spend. On his 45th birthday, a year before his assassination, Jack had received one-half of the principal held in trust for him, with the remaining half kept under the control of Joseph P. Kennedy Enterprises, a New York City-based holding company set up by his deceased father.

    I wasn’t great in the maths but that looks like an 80% effective tax rate. Wow. Rich people really did used to pay a lot in taxes. I’d cut my taxes too. And start a war. And get off the gold standard. Open up a few more Cabinet agencies fer sure.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  435. Oh. I thought you said “Noel is not who you think”. Whew.

    noel (b4d580)

  436. Brace yourself Rev.Hoagie cuz…. thats what governments do.

    noel (b4d580) — 12/3/2017 @ 5:45 pm

    Rev Hoagie didn’t wreck five planes during the Vietnam War so he definitely didn’t get his money’s worth.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  437. Cuz I really don’t want to pay taxes while Ivanka, Don and Eric do not. Unlike you, I do think that is “unfair”.

    noel (b4d580) — 12/3/2017 @ 7:11 pm

    I’m certain they draw a salary and pay taxes. I’m sure each grandchild gets $10,000 a year on their birthday as well. Or $5,000 on their birthday and the rest at Christmas. Or Hanukkah.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  438. He’s not teh Beav, noel is more like Larry Mondello.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  439. I’m certain they draw a salary and pay taxes. I’m sure each grandchild gets $10,000 a year on their birthday as well. Or $5,000 on their birthday and the rest at Christmas. Or Hanukkah.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5) — 12/3/2017 @ 9:26 pm

    Is this what you want to leave begind?

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  440. behind.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  441. Is this what you want to leave begind?
    Steve57 (0b1dac) — 12/3/2017 @ 9:57 pm

    behind.
    Steve57 (0b1dac) — 12/3/2017 @ 9:58 pm

    More. My kids already didn’t get my green hazel eyes or slightly decent complexion.

    An occasional spark of originality or A Dog’s Breakfast

    Pinandpuller (c8611b)

  442. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=13&v=O2MTZ3VpyrY

    This was no doubt written by a Marine. So, Natch, I have to correct the spelling.

    Devil Doc FROM 3/3 signals in a Helo in AFGHANISTAN by shuffling

    Devil Doc is Marine Corps speak for a Navy Corpsman.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  443. The man shooting the video no doubt knows a million things more than I do about shooting a rifle. More than I know about spelling.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  444. Same goes for the Corpsman. And I don’t even want to go into what he knows about First Aid.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  445. I was thinking eddie haskell

    mg (60b0f7)

  446. Sherriff Clarke needs a job in the Trump administration. This man gets it.
    Clarke and Col. West is who I want in my fox hole. You no trumpets can sit with lil marco and miss lindsey.

    mg (60b0f7)

  447. You insult Col. West by placing him within the same earth works as “Sheriff Little from Chickasaw County”.

    urbanleftbehind (468cdf)

  448. mg says, “Long time republicans such as noel – has been the problem in America for decades.”

    You have a guy who campaigns for President saying he is “going to release my taxes”. Yep, right when that audit is done. This guy claims that the previous President is born in another country. (Two birth certificates and announcements in the paper say otherwise.) He then claims Ted Cruz’s dad was in on the Kennedy assassination. Then, later, “nobody talked to the Russians”. Then “This tax bill is going to cost me a fortune.” Those are just for starters.

    OK… so now you can see…. noel is the problem.

    noel (b4d580)

  449. Ted Cruz woulda won for sure if it wasn’t for them rumors about how his daddy shot Kennedy

    it’s so unfair

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  450. I regret my primary vote for Ted Cruz. What a simp. He should have proved his smoking barrel Texas bonafires on those oakley-wearing Hoosier peckerwoods.

    urbanleftbehind (468cdf)

  451. I haven’t even had my second cup of coffee and bam, there is happyfeet. This may be a long day.

    noel (b4d580)

  452. You insult Col. West by placing him within the same earth works as “Sheriff Little from Chickasaw County”.
    urbanleftbehind (468cdf) — 12/4/2017 @ 3:31 am

    Was this aimed at me?

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  453. urbanleftbehind says, “I regret my primary vote for Ted Cruz. What a simp.”

    No need to be so hard on yourself.

    noel (b4d580)

  454. Not at all, Steve57…its a response to m a post at 458. Something off about that Clarke, might be dealing with a conservative version of Joe Jackson or Mel Reynolds

    urbanleftbehind (468cdf)

  455. Patterico article up on RedState….. “The GOP Tax Bill: A Betrayal Of Conservative Values”

    Honesty isn’t always rewarded these days. But I appreciate it.

    noel (b4d580)

  456. poor noel is not getting his way anymore. The silent majority will take care of you self appointed elitist monkeys.

    mg (60b0f7)

  457. Clarke is the only sane official in that county, the mayor is a slughead so is the police chief

    narciso (d1f714)

  458. And by “silent majority”, you mean the 38% supporting our leader?

    noel (b4d580)

  459. Oh wait, he is the “elitist” billionaire. Country Clubs and golden toilets. Penthouses, limousines.

    But no, up is down. Noel is the elitist.

    noel (b4d580)

  460. Unlike say John Kerry, who parked his yacht in another state, to avoid taxes, yawn.

    narciso (d1f714)

  461. He is so sane, that under his patron Walker and successors, the role of the S.O. was reduced to park ranger and jailer. In all those intervening years, he NEVER put together a 287g app, granted he might have been getting the whip cracked at him by the Ryanite Dairy factions.

    urbanleftbehind (468cdf)

  462. Magic eightball, would suggest so.

    narciso (d1f714)

  463. Trump’s lawyer just endorsed Roy Moore!

    noel (b4d580)

  464. Rosetta Stone be damned, the spanish word for Whataboutism starts with the plain N.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  465. Just in the last day he criticized the FBI and the Special Prosecutor. But he endorses Roy Moore?

    Up is down.

    noel (b4d580)

  466. Well, Moore (and certainly Strange) might be on the opposite of an Alabama-specific spectrum of conservative Republican from Sessions (Brooks was the natural heir in that sense).

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  467. Note the paradox

    http://streetwiseprofessor.com/?p=10761

    narciso (d1f714)

  468. Conyers\noel\2020

    mg (60b0f7)

  469. Look i know corrupt city polituvs , we had a commissioner (a fellow high school alum) who was caught doing real estate fraud,(his wife was sleeping with his atty, during the trial) a mayoral candidate who was running her own scam, another who briefly went bonkers.

    narciso (d1f714)

  470. Urban voted Cruz?

    boink!

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  471. Sometimes you have to be tactical, and lets not forget he is to the core Ivy League trash, his true colors would have shown up after year 2 or 3.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  472. Believe me I know. Voted Glibertarian just to see what happens.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  473. “Just in the last day he criticized the FBI and the Special Prosecutor. But he endorses Roy Moore?”

    Yes, Democrats know the Feebs and the Special Counsel are above reproach.

    Colonel Haiku (11439f)

  474. Stop teh charade, noel.

    Colonel Haiku (11439f)

  475. What chased him out of Australia?

    In 1984 Moore spent the better part of a year in the Queensland outback, where he lived and worked with the Rolfe family, the hard-working, deeply religious former owners of Telemon. But how he ended up there and what drove an ambitious 37-year-old assistant district attorney to this remote outpost has mostly remained a mystery.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/dec/03/why-did-roy-moore-escape-to-australia-clues-remain-in-the-outback-wilderness

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  476. Embrace your leftwing suck, don’t mince around it.

    Colonel Haiku (11439f)

  477. You da mincer kernel.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  478. To meet with Mick Dundee, everyone knows that.

    narciso (d1f714)

  479. How cool if Mueller is Person of Year.

    Lol. Trump would sh’t!
    https://www.redstate.com/sweetie15/2017/12/04/shortlist-times-person-year-announced/

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  480. Something creepy like Eric Prince of Darkness…Christian Soldat of Death.

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/aramroston/trump-administration-mulls-private-rendition?utm_term=.meWYY7r58#.cwG66RWP0

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  481. Prince is sending up angels in his perverse Rapture beliefs.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  482. Something else we should be grateful for..Evangelicals really do care..about way, I have no idea.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  483. Watch teh crybabies whine, mate
    Watch teh crybabies whine
    They’re a laughable breed, mate
    So watch teh crybabies whine
    Altogether now!
    Tie teh Rear Admiral down, sport
    Tie teh Rear Admiral down
    Tie teh Rear Admiral down, sport
    Tie teh Rear Admiral down
    Keep teh wackadoo cool, mate
    Keep teh wackadoo cool
    He’ll be acting the fool, mate
    Just keep teh wackadoo cool
    Altogether now!
    Tie teh Rear Admiral down, sport
    Tie teh Rear Admiral down
    Tie teh Rear Admiral down, sport
    Tie teh Rear Admiral down
    ‘N’ roll him on to his back, Jack
    Roll him on to his back
    He is way off teh track, Jack
    So roll him on to his back
    Altogether now!

    Colonel Haiku (11439f)

  484. Get Prince to rapture your carcass, kernel.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  485. Maguire, the head of that outfit, misrepresented his rank in the company, in order to sell his tps report, early in the Iraq war.

    narciso (d1f714)

  486. “I think not having the estate tax recognizes the people that are investing,” Grassley said, “as opposed to those that are just spending every darn penny they have, whether it’s on booze or women or movies.”

    -Sen. CHUCK GRASSLY

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  487. I can believe what I set off.

    And now I have to ask, can you put a Ford v8 in a Mazda other than a Miata?

    http://monstermiata.webs.com/v8monsterkit.htm

    Because there’s a Protege I have my eye on.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  488. Mazdas are like aluminum cans, at least the 626 was, dont do it.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  489. It would probably simpler and easier to get an old Subaru and swap in a turbo Legacy engine.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  490. Plus I can pack out a quartered elk.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  491. Mg- you can end up like that 500 years into life in South Africa, Australia or Florida, and thats without getting it on with the help. Zola Budd’s parents (Afrikan mom, British dad) in a side to side picture were illustrative of this dichotomy (it has been scrubbed from die Internet, but I remember it from a 1984 Sports Illustrated).

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  492. At this point you may justifiably be wondering why I’m not contemplating the WRX swap.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  493. Yes, Admiral. That Grassley quote is really something. “I think not having the estate tax recognizes the people that are investing,” Grassley said, “as opposed to those that are just spending every darn penny they have, whether it’s on booze or women or movies”

    Thats says it all. Right there.

    But what would you expect from the Senator. He is a buddy of Rep. Steve King who represents the 4th Northern Confederacy district of Iowa. Confederate flag-waving whacko-bird.

    noel (b4d580)

  494. Yeah these about-to-retire and septugs are getting a little mouthy on that front. But to be fair, Grassley probably sees that torpor from his fellow rural and suburb Iowegians as much as from inner city DesMoines, Davenport or Cedar Rapids.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  495. Noel it reveals the derp affection held for working classes

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  496. Noel

    You can call me Ben. The Admiral is for haiku.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  497. Patterico: on 12/3/2017 @ 8:13 pm

    This is a project coordinated with Townhall and it’s not time-sensitive in the same way that breaking news is, so publication in the early morning hours of a Monday morning after a major Saturday morning vote is not too much of a delay.

    It’s not the delay. The delay could have been longer, and maybe it would be more thoughtful, or incorporate more ideas. It is the delay after it was completed – which stretched out more than 24 hours, and seemed to be verging on 36 hours – that I wondered about.

    That’s why I asked if you revised it after you said it was completed.

    Now you said you cut it down in size. Could we see, maybe, some of the missing parts? Or maybe better some ideas that were in it (if you think they are good)

    Of course there are better times and worse times to release things, and sometimes it makes sense also to space things out.

    Sammy Finkelman (e70ce9)

  498. He apparently has a boat. A motor boat. I retired a lietenant commander. If I had a motor boat I’d be calling myself El Capitano di Frigatta.

    But I only have a canoe.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  499. Il Capitano di Frigatta.

    Jeezus.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  500. Ba bah bamba.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jp6j5HJ-Cok

    I can order dinner in Spanish.

    Yo no soy marino. Soy Capitan.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  501. marino.

    Marinero.

    Jeezus.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  502. I thought I was good with languages.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  503. Blame automistake.

    narciso (4346c7)


Powered by WordPress.

Page loaded in: 1.5042 secs.