Patterico's Pontifications

11/23/2017

BREAKING: The Clearest Indication Yet That Flynn Is Cooperating with Mueller

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 2:30 pm



Is Mike Flynn cooperating with Special Counsel Robert Mueller in the Russia investigation? That is a distinct possibility today, given the news breaking in the New York Times this afternoon that Flynn’s lawyers are no longer sharing information with Donald Trump’s lawyers.

Lawyers for Michael T. Flynn, President Trump’s former national security adviser, notified the president’s legal team in recent days that they could no longer discuss the special counsel’s investigation, according to four people involved in the case, an indication that Mr. Flynn is cooperating with prosecutors or negotiating such a deal.

Mr. Flynn’s lawyers had been sharing information with Mr. Trump’s lawyers about the investigation by the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, who is examining whether anyone around Mr. Trump was involved in Russian efforts to undermine Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign.

That agreement has been terminated, the four people said. Defense lawyers frequently share information during investigations, but they must stop when doing so would pose a conflict of interest. It is unethical for lawyers to work together when one client is cooperating with prosecutors and another is still under investigation.

This is not proof that Flynn is cooperating with Mueller. But it is not good news for the Trump administration on this Thanksgiving.

173 Responses to “BREAKING: The Clearest Indication Yet That Flynn Is Cooperating with Mueller”

  1. Its bad news only if Flynn has something to share.

    I’m not sure that’s the case.

    Flynn has issues going back to his time in the Obama Administration.

    I’d guess Flynn was free-lancing whatever he was doing much more than he was working from any set of directives from the campaign.

    And his motives are not to save himself — his motives right now are to save his son.

    Unless he’s got a smoking gun or incriminating recordings, he’s going to get shredded under any type of competent cross-examination.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  2. Since trump didn’t collude with russia to alter the 2016 election this is BS! As for influencing an election if that was a crime boner and netanhayu would be in jail cells!

    ever trump (e492ab)

  3. Flynn has issues with his involvement with a Turkey cleric. I think he pocketed $500 grand.

    mg (60b0f7)

  4. Do we have an actual stAtement from his atty then its fake news, if this doesnt sound like Libby shamarama I’ll eat my capm

    narciso (d1f714)

  5. It’s nice to know on this Thanksgiving Day our Captain is getting the bird.

    Sorry, Sir, strawberries are off today. Try the pie.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  6. You mean it’s bad news for Flynn if he has a problem.

    Mike K (b3dd19)

  7. He’s truly concerned with the fate of his son..a powerful pawn .

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  8. Popehat did an explainer on this:
    https://twitter.com/Popehat/status/933811885832413186
    from the last few posts in the series:

    So when someone announces they are withdrawing from a joint defense agreement, it often signifies that the lawyer’s client is cooperating with prosecutors or trying to.
    But it can also signify that the lawyer has decided that the other parties to the agreement are unreliable/dangerous/stupid and they don’t trust them.
    Anyway, if the sources are right that Flynn’s lawyer announced withdrawal from a joint defense agreement, that’s a sign of probably (but not certain) efforts to cooperate with the government.

    Davethulhu (6a4a84)

  9. Yeah, cuz not cooperating pays such dividends!!!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  10. I’m thinking Flynn has been cooperating since shortly after he pleaded the 5th in May(?). This is based solely on Kung Fu Muellers habit.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  11. The habit of tight sphincters and no loose media bowels.

    Working his Semper Fi magic.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  12. Oh, I like squids too.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  13. Its a wonder how we have this fake news, while William Campbell’s testimony goes unaknowleged and collusion seems clear between fusion gps and certain journalists (wonder if there is a cinnevtion)

    narciso (d1f714)

  14. And yet still no interest in ‘wipe that secret server’/family trust influence peddling/uranium wholesaler Hillary.

    harkin (a9a478)

  15. To those who lament the long arc in time for this investigation, it’s a wise move to move slowly to avoid a misfire. It’s just good forensics.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  16. Yellowcakers can’t seem to shake Dem Uranium Blues…

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  17. Sorry to be so negative but all this may happen on the fringe of Trump exonerating him on the ignorant dumbass provision of USC.341.64

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  18. So this bogus story, that surfaced last week was actually about a Christian leader seeking a meeting with a Russian political figure, becayae of common cultural concerns where kushner was the middle man.

    narciso (d1f714)

  19. Many Kingpins isolate themselves from the conspiracy, but Trump just isn’t that smart.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  20. Isn’t he the guy who was fired for lying?

    Kevin M (752a26)

  21. Even if there was a Russian attempt to influence our elections, it’s simply the pigeons coming home to squat. As for Trump being involved, can you imagine ANYONE who would let Trump in on a secret if they didn’t have to?

    Kevin M (752a26)

  22. Perhaps Team Trump is preparing to throw Flynn under the bus again.

    kishnevi (6fbba2)

  23. Many Kingpins isolate themselves from the conspiracy, but Trump just isn’t that smart.

    Yet to hear you tell it he masterminded an international conspiracy of many moving parts and kept it secret.

    Just like Bush’s White House secretly destroyed the WTC, or Reagan masterminded the Iran-Contra affair.

    As seen here: https://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/president-reagan-mastermind/n9509

    Kevin M (752a26)

  24. As for Trump being involved, can you imagine ANYONE who would let Trump in on a secret if they didn’t have to?

    No. But that does not rule out someone wanting a “secret” to get out telling it to Trump. BTW, there is no need to assume the “secret” had any truth to it…only that someone wanted the rumor mill to start rolling.

    kishnevi (6fbba2)

  25. Or they could just be making it up, but as with gabe Sherman’s fan fiction who knows

    narciso (d1f714)

  26. Lawyers for Mr. Flynn and Mr. Trump declined to comment. The four people briefed on the matter spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss it publicly.

    Great sourcing.

    BuDuh (fc15db)

  27. So when did the attorneys last communicate, can haberman or one of her other associAtes this or is this as ephemeral as the comedy memos

    narciso (d1f714)

  28. Are we still holding out hope that Trump is a KGB spy or something? Move on.

    jcurtis (2cec4f)

  29. Mueller has to justify those expense reports, and puffing up foreign registration disclosures, like today’s McClatchy piece (a,lobbyist for russia actually visited russia a dozen shocker) won’t really cut it.

    narciso (d1f714)

  30. A lefty complaining that the NYT is guilty of shoddy reporting
    https://mobile.twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/933903761050865665

    kishnevi (2dabdc)

  31. He makes mensch seem sane

    https://pjmedia.com/trending/burmese-beg-pope-not-word-muslims-please/amp/

    He gets bad advice

    narciso (d1f714)

  32. Obviously, Trump is a deep cover KGB asset, as was his father. We should give thanks to the likes of McConnell, Ryan, and Hillary for working so hard to save the republic and expose this. Honorable mention goes to the NeverTrump movement for soberly realizing that those in DC are working hard for the public good and deserve great respect for all they have done over the last few decades, and their current desire to return the GOP to its glory days of conservatism with the likes of the Bush and Romney families.

    Donaldo (95053d)

  33. Donaldo Duck…

    mg (60b0f7)

  34. o here’s Bob Mueller’s big, big problem.

    Byron York, one of the best conservative reporters, has leaked a guvmint confession that, just as you thought, the FBI “was never able to verify” the infamous Moscow pee-pee report that triggered the totally phony campaign against Donald J. Trump. “The FBI was never able to verify” is an admission against interest, as they say in the legal game, meaning “Oops! The prosecution doesn’t have a case!” It is indeed a confession of criminal prosecutorial misconduct, and all the perverters of justice in the FBI and DOJ have violated their oath of office and must resign. Or go to prison. Or both.

    mg (60b0f7)

  35. Ronaldo duck – boosh led thousands of Americans to their deaths in Afghanistan and Iraq. And thousands more were injured severely. thanks so much.
    hillary and her tandem boy toys mcdonnell and ryan have shown what side they are on.[Backside] thanks again. And the mahogany paneled wall crowd can’t handle the deplorable clingers of guns, bibles and the need for smaller govt as it cuts into their attorney privilege b.s. gracious. Donaldo, mittens gave us Jonathon Gruber. One could not make a worse hire for Americans than Gruber. thanks mittens.

    mg (60b0f7)

  36. “I faced great pressure because of Russia. That’s taken off.”

    Maybe its not obstruction if you say it out loud? If Mueller would have come across that Trump statement during his investigation, instead of a news report on the President’s Oval Office meeting with Russians, would he be in more trouble?

    noel (b4d580)

  37. There is a certain genius to this method for Trump. He finds a supportive audience or some “fair and balanced” network and expresses his controversial views, especially on race issues, right out there in public. Boldly going where no man has gone before.

    Then, he backs off a bit in the following days just enough to keep moderate folks from bolting. Pretty unorthodox but it seems to work for him. I call it the “reverse dog whistle”.

    noel (b4d580)

  38. Poor Donaldo was being sarcastic, mg.

    Like this:
    noel wrote: Boldly going where no man has gone before.
    And I answer: Like Al Franken and Leeann Tweeden?

    nk (dbc370)

  39. As to failing to file registration paper work, that’s a process offense which is rarely applied because half of k street would be in jail

    narciso (d1f714)

  40. Embedded Administrative State will go to great lengths to maintain its position and power. It’s a crime, brother, if they say it’s a crime. They have always been at war with the citizenry.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  41. Oh, yeah If the feds didn’t get busted for screwing Ted Stevens or getting outsmarted in trying to frame Richard Jewell, there’s no confidence they aren’t screwing the pooch here.
    Probably won’t massacre four or five dozen of Flynn’s neighbors, though.

    Richard Aubrey (415087)

  42. Remember who jewells persecutor was, Doug Jones (from bellboy) he also defended some Nazi nebbush, Arthur Jones,

    narciso (d1f714)

  43. I don’t think this is bad news for Trump. Flynn probably has other things to say. I don’t know how people can go on with this thing about collusion between Trump and Russia, when what you’ve clearly got in penetration and attempted penetration of of the Trump campaign by Russia.

    Flynn may even have been recruited by the GRU back when he was head of the DIA. He spent a whole day at GRU headquarters in 2013.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/mar/31/michael-flynn-new-evidence-spy-chiefs-had-concerns-about-russian-ties

    US and UK officials were troubled by Moscow contacts and encounter with woman linked to Russian spy agency records

    This article is the subject of a legal complaint on behalf of Svetlana Lokhova.

    US intelligence officials had serious concerns about Michael Flynn’s appointment as the White House national security advis er because of his history of contacts with Moscow and his encounter with a woman who had trusted access to Russian spy agency records, the Guardian has learned.

    US and British intelligence officers discussed Flynn’s “worrisome” behaviour well before his appointment last year by Donald Trump, multiple sources have said.

    They raised concerns about Flynn’s ties to Russia and his perceived obsession with Iran. They were also anxious about his capacity for “linear thought” and some actions that were regarded as highly unusual for a three-star general.

    ….On Thursday, [in March] Flynn indicated he was willing to testify before the FBI and congressional committees about potential links between the Trump campaign and Russia in exchange for immunity. In a statement released by his lawyer, Flynn said he had a story to tell but was seeking “assurances against unfair prosecution”.

    The house oversight committee is examining the general’s activities before he joined Trump’s White House. It is likely to focus on Flynn’s contacts with foreign nationals and will also look at fees he may have received from foreign governments, including Russia and Turkey, and linked entities.

    …One concern involved an encounter with a Russian-British graduate student, Svetlana Lokhova, whom Flynn met on a trip to Cambridge in February 2014.

    At the time, Flynn was one of the top US spies and the director of the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA), which provides information to the Pentagon about the military strengths and intentions of other states and terrorist groups.

    A historian and a leading expert on Soviet espionage, Lokhova has claimed to have unique access to previously classified Soviet-era material in Moscow. She says her forthcoming book makes groundbreaking revelations about Soviet military intelligence operations run by the GRU – Russia’s military spy agency.

    Western historians say access to intelligence agency records in Moscow has been severely restricted under Vladimir Putin. One Russian historian who has written extensively on Russian intelligence said the situation with the GRU was “a complete disaster”.

    “At least with the FSB and SVR [domestic and foreign spy agencies] there are places you can apply to view the archives, but with the GRU there’s not even a place to apply,” the historian said.

    “Maybe two or three military historians have been allowed in. Sometimes there are duplicates in other archives, but getting into the actual GRU archive is basically impossible.”

    Flynn and Lokhova were introduced to each other at the end of a dinner attended by 20 guests who included Sir Richard Dearlove – the former head of MI6 – and Prof Christopher Andrew, the official MI5 historian.

    Flynn says the meeting with Lokhova was “incidental” and lasted just 20 minutes. However, Andrew has said Flynn invited Lokhova to accompany him on his next official visit to Moscow to help with simultaneous translation. The trip fell through soon afterwards because of Putin’s annexation of Crimea, Andrew wrote in the Sunday Times.

    The Guardian understands Flynn and Lokhova remained in email contact, conducted through an unclassified channel. In one email exchange described by Andrew, Flynn signed himself as “General Misha”, Russian for Mike.

    Lokhova also listed Flynn as one of four referees who would provide selective endorsements for her book, which is expected to detail how Russian spies penetrated the US atomic weapons programme.

    Though there is no suggestion of impropriety, Flynn would have been expected to “self report” any conversation with an unknown person, especially with links to an “adversary” country, such as Russia. Lokhova has informed us that she does not have privileged access to any Russian intelligence archive and there is no suggestion that she has ever worked with or for any of the Russian intelligence agencies.

    Flynn did not disclose his conversation with Lokhova, the Wall Street Journal reported. Whatever concerns the US intelligence agencies had over Flynn, he retained his top-level security clearance.

    Price Floyd, a spokesman for Flynn, said: “This is a false story. The inference that the contact between Gen Flynn and a Russian [dual] national described in this story should be seen in any light other than incidental contact is simply untrue.”

    Floyd refused to comment on questions about the alleged email correspondence, or the potential citation for Lokhova’s book.

    Lokhova’s partner, David North, also declined to comment in detail. In comments to the Wall Street Journal he said Lokhova and Flynn “had a 20-minute public conversation” and have not “met or spoken since”. North also disputed Andrew’s account of the dinner in Cambridge and did not answer questions about the emails. [See footnote]

    Multiple sources, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said the CIA and FBI were discussing this episode, along with many others, as they assessed Flynn’s suitability to serve as national security adviser.

    The Cambridge meeting was part of a wider pattern of “maverick” behaviour which included repeated contacts with Russia, the sources said.

    After he resigned from the DIA in 2014, Flynn became a contributor to RT, formerly known as Russia Today, the Kremlin’s English-language news channel.

    In summer 2015, Flynn met Trump for the first time after being invited to do so by his team. That year he received about $45,000 (£36,000) for attending RT’s gala dinner in Moscow, where he sat next to Putin. Flynn also accepted $11,250 from two Russian firms for speaking engagements in Washington. One of them was Kaspersky Lab, a cybersecurity company with ties to the Kremlin.

    The US army is investigating the RT transaction and whether it was properly disclosed, according to a source close to US intelligence. The US constitution’s emoluments clause forbids military officers from accepting foreign government payments without the permission of Congress.

    The sources pointed to a reported remark by Sally Yates, the former acting attorney general, who had told the White House in January that Flynn was vulnerable to blackmail by Russian intelligence.

    Flynn’s spokesman said Flynn had signed on with a speakers’ bureau after his 2014 resignation, as other former senior government officials have done. He said Flynn had alerted the DIA about the RT speech before he travelled and had briefed the DIA upon his return. The spokesman said Flynn had “nothing to hide”.

    As DIA chief, Flynn visited the GRU in Moscow in 2013. He was the first US officer ever allowed inside its headquarters, where he gave a lecture on leadership. “It was a great trip,” he told the Washington Post, adding that it was fully approved. Flynn was keen to make a second GRU visit but permission was denied, it is understood….

    Sammy Finkelman (762ee4)

  44. I don’t think that Trump tweet after Wikileaks asked his son to ask his father to tweet a link to their hacked files, is what they mean by collusion. Trump didn’t even include the link, I think I read, and the whole thing may be a coincidence. (it came only 15 minutes later.)

    The latest (a week or so ago) I heard about Mike Flynn was that there had been some kind of a meeting with Turkish officials. No money changed hands, no contract was signed, and no decision was made, but they had been discussing or brainstorming the idea of kidnapping Fethulla Gulen.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/nov/10/michael-flynn-trump-turkish-dissident-cleric-plot

    And the hill reported that half a year ago.

    http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/325698-flynn-discussed-how-to-whisk-away-cleric-wanted-by-turkey-report

    Sammy Finkelman (762ee4)

  45. Again anonymous sources, now erdogans man in Washington is not flynn but Richard Armitage, yes the unindicted figure who leaked to Woodward and miller. Who was on the board of caci which along with titan ran the interrogators at Abe ghraib who was very well connected to the aliev clan in bake.

    narciso (d1f714)

  46. Where’s the Amazon widget?

    nk (dbc370)

  47. Armitage lol.

    Your new boogieman should be Rohrabacher.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  48. What’s more, People magazine got Walters to repeat the story almost verbatim. Walters denied one key element of Kelley’s version to People–that Reagan forced his way into her apartment–but reaffirmed the rest. It sounds remarkably like Juanita Broaddrick’s story:

    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/chatterbox/1999/03/gipper_the_ripper.html

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  49. The truth is general flynn is being punished for having been right on Islamic state and al quedas expansion in the middle east, Africa, north and west, for adegending agent fritz against mccabe

    narciso (d1f714)

  50. Defending, much like fr0itz and comedy sought vengeance against scooter Libby for the effrontery of an effective defense of marc rich, ironically his firm would later get the bulk of the risneft deal and his fellow marauders kurzin and chagoury would be allowed to loot Nigeria dry.

    narciso (d1f714)

  51. Consider this interesting snippet:

    http;//streetwiseprofessor.com/?p=10754

    narciso (d1f714)

  52. It was here yesterday, nk, but it’s gone again.

    DRJ (15874d)

  53. Could be some bad code,

    narciso (d1f714)

  54. It’s gone from The Jury, too. He must have had to take it down.

    DRJ (15874d)

  55. Thank you, DRJ. The daughter gave me her letter to Santa. No Black Friday stuff. If Patterico is going to bring the widget back, I’ll wait. It’s more upsetting that I can’t remember at what age we stopped peeking at her letter to Santa and told her we were Santa.

    nk (dbc370)

  56. I can’t wait to have a granddaughter to spoil. I want one just like your daughter. In the meantime, our children are grown and we give cash for birthdays and Christmas. It’s wonderful.

    DRJ (0280d9)

  57. Has anyone come-up with anything that looks like it might be a crime in all of this yet?

    MJN1957 (6f981a)

  58. Mueller has indicted three people, MJN. An indictment isn’t a conviction and they are innocent unless they are convicted, but it does allege criminal violations.

    DRJ (0280d9)

  59. DRJ,

    You forgot about the ham sandwich.

    NJRob (a06222)

  60. Grand jury hamsan indictments work for all sides you crybaby.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  61. 62. DRJ (15874d) — 11/24/2017 @ 8:01 am

    It’s gone from The Jury, too. He must have had to take it down.

    Maybe amazon just doesn’t like him advertising to people that if they want to buy on Amazon anyway, they should first go here; or maybe somebody used a shortcut and they can tell. Or maybe this is just suspicion on the part of Amazon. I wonder if anything bought in the last days or week counted.

    Sammy Finkelman (762ee4)

  62. If you are a president or governor who believes that government doesn’t work, you staff your administration with people who don’t want government to work, and your belief becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. This didn’t begin with Donald Trump and won’t end with Donald Trump.

    https://philebersole.wordpress.com/2017/11/24/how-the-trump-administration-governs/#more-78270

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  63. Something’s are so obvious been fathead Friedman can’t ignore them, mind you he got his signature story in Beirut wrong in 1982, which set the frame for subsequent events

    narciso (d1f714)

  64. Grand jury hamsan indictments work for all sides you crybaby.

    Butthurt Burnie the Deckswabber (b3d5ab) — 11/24/2017 @ 9:17 am

    Yawn.

    NJRob (a06222)

  65. Whine..

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  66. Or maybe someone has a grudge against him and is using Amazon to get even, Sammy.

    NJRob, grand juries only hear one side — which is why an indictment alone isn’t evidence of guilt — but there are allegations of illegal conduct against three people.

    DRJ (15874d)

  67. Mueller weissman and rosentein at best didn’t follow up William camobelks finding before the rosatom deal went through, that’s the mist charitable interpretation on things

    narciso (d1f714)

  68. Campbell’s findings re tenet/translogistics but as Raymond donovan ‘where does one go to get their reputation back’ what is a defense against malicious lawfare.

    narciso (d1f714)

  69. DRJ…and please indicate which one of those indictments relates to a crime even vaguely related to “Russian Interference” in our national election?

    I get, as you likely do, that very few people can survive a deep-dive into their personal affairs un-indicted if a prosecutor was so inclined. I likely couldn’t…and other than knowing DJT, where is the nexus to the original thought crime of “Russian Interference” in those indictments?

    MJN1957 (6f981a)

  70. Therein lies the question, scaluas dissent in Morrison was so on point, clarice discovered the truth about that 40 some years ago.

    narciso (d1f714)

  71. Heh. Nixon wasn’t impeached for burglary.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  72. Clarice Feldman hasn’t discovered her butt yet.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  73. which one of those indictments relates to a crime even vaguely related to “Russian Interference” in our national election?

    The one with George PApadoupolous.

    Manafort also, if it should turn out that Russia had something to do with him getting his job in the Trump campaign.

    But this is not collusion with Russia, by Trump. It is penetration and planting agents of Russia in the Trump campaign. Almost the opposite of Trump himself being a conscious agent of the Russian conspiracy.

    Everything shows that they were trying to plant people there in his campaign, and tried to increase contacts.

    For the hacking, there would have been no reason to involve Trump. The Steele dossier claimed that the Russian government and the Trump campaign split the costs for the hacking. Not very believable.

    Sammy Finkelman (762ee4)

  74. Is Clarice one of the US Jews Netanyahoo had to defend in Israel?

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  75. Israel is calling all to Israel for suppirt. Clarice? Give up that Georgetown palace for a kibbutz?

    Lol.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  76. No more duck confit for you, Clarice. Just Gefilte fish from now on.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  77. Here come teh Jooo hatred…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  78. Not much surface scratching required with beenburned.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  79. Well I do hate Gefilte fish..

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  80. Yes its like strangeloves salute, she discovered when she was at the osi how certain official fudged who they admitted under the lodge act.

    narciso (d1f714)

  81. It goes with your Moooooslim hatred kernel popcorn

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  82. “Do not be deceived: Leftism is an enigma. We need a theorem that explains not one or two aspects of Leftism, but all their traits.
    The theory must explain, first, the honest decency of the modern liberals combined with their astonishing indifference, nay, hostility to facts, common sense, and evidence; second, it must explain their high self-esteem (or, to be blunt, their pathological narcissism) combined not merely with an utter lack of accomplishment, but with their utter devotion to destructiveness, a yearning to ruin everything they touch; third, it must explain their sanctimoniousness combined with their applause, praise, support, and tireless efforts to spread all perversions (especially sexual), moral decay, vulgarity, and every form of desecration; fourth, their pretense of intellectual superiority combined with their notorious mental fecklessness; fifth, it must explain both their violence and their pacifism; sixth, the theory must explain why they hate the very things they should love most; seventh, the theory must explain why they are incapable of comprehending an honest disagreement or any honorable foe.
    And, while we are at it, if we could also explain why the Rich, who are routinely vilified by the Left number among its most ardent supporters, or the secular Jews, our theory would be very potent in its explanatory power.”

    http://www.scifiwright.com/2014/03/the-unified-field-theory-of-madness/

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  83. Hoyt for teh Win…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  84. Yes, yes. Orthodox Judaism good…secular bad.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  85. God Bless the IDF

    mg (60b0f7)

  86. MJN, as my earlier link said:

    The conspiracy charge [against Manafort and Gates] doesn’t have any direct connection to Mueller’s investigation into whether the Trump campaign colluded with Russia before the 2016 US election. It’s a general charge stemming from any joint effort to defraud the US and is tied to the allegations involving Manafort’s and Gates’ money.

    However, my link also notes that the third defendant, Papadopoulos, has already plead guilty to making false statements to the FBI about his contacts with foreigners who have tied to Russian officials. An indictment is not evidence of guilt but a guilty plea most certainly is, and his plea involves false statements regarding the timeline of contacts with apparent agents of Russian officials.

    In addition:

    The unsealed court filings showed extensive contact before the election between Papadopoulos and Russia-linked foreign nationals, raising the stakes for the White House — and throwing a huge wrench in Trump’s attempts to distance himself from Manafort.

    The White House reportedly was relieved it was Manafort who was inficted, not Flynn. That’s why Flynn’s apparent cooperation with Mueller may be a troubling signal for Trump.

    DRJ (15874d)

  87. Indicted, not inficted.

    DRJ (15874d)

  88. Orthodox are as dangerous as Jihadis. They’re just more subtle. Imagine your family having a funeral for you while you are alive and healthy.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  89. comrade ben burnee bro came to round up the jews

    mg (60b0f7)

  90. For behavior that happened before 2014 when the peregrushka was state policy, why haven’t pidesta and weber been indicted, they did the actual work, of lobbying congressmembers.

    This country was built on orthodox believers Christians as well as Jews, as much as the entrepreneurial class

    narciso (d1f714)

  91. Was that written by Sarah Hoyt or John C. Wright?

    DRJ (15874d)

  92. Whoever wrote the essay at your link, I think the motives the author ascribes to evil intentions could just as easily be the result of the Montessori teaching method where participants are taught results matter more than method, facts are sometimes disposable or at least expendable, and you should only know what your “teachers” guide you to know. It’s the secular/professional approach to life that Democrats have embraced for decades.

    DRJ (15874d)

  93. I thought the Hoyt article was the post prior to the one Haiku linked, appearing at a website that belongs to John C. Wright.

    DRJ (15874d)

  94. It’s the secular/professional approach to life that Democrats have embraced for decades.

    Maybe in public schools where reinventing the 3rs led to new math idiocy. But Montessori is less tool oriented on methods. It’s common sense applied.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  95. Even what were once benign, “helping young ones choose the right path” organizations have been infected with the sickness of progressivism…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  96. NJRob, grand juries only hear one side — which is why an indictment alone isn’t evidence of guilt — but there are allegations of illegal conduct against three people.

    DRJ (15874d) — 11/24/2017 @ 9:32 am

    I’m aware. As is Scooter Libby.

    NJRob (a06222)

  97. 94. This all boils down to getting facts from authority (I mean the kind of facts not usually associated with religion) and not the usual way.

    They are not hostile to facts – they are hostile to alternative sources of facts other than what has passed through academia, or some other intellectual environment, and rely on the wrong sources of authority. Who is an authority is very much a networking effect.

    People get authority by knowing things that other people do not. Now if you assert something that isn’t true, or that contradicts earlier sources of authority, at first you will be the only one to say it, and can gain reputation. This happened mostly in 1870-1930 period. Most academic disciplines date to that period. Later on they locked things down so that the same thing doesn’t happen to you. Rebellion or rejection was permitted only against the old sources of authority.. It worked by networking.

    You can tell when someone is making an argument from authority when they invole “science.” Karl Marx did that and a lot of people have done that since. You don’t need t invole “science” to justify your formulation of the law of gravity.

    Science is nothing but organized groupthink, and is no good. The premise is that there is only one thing that everybody must agree on.

    Things that are not true take more education to learn, and so they have a feeling of superiority because they know or are familiar with a lot of things.

    They don’t have a feeling of accomplishment, but people who run things boast of the value of what they did or helped by how much it costs, or maybe by who endorsed it.

    Violence and pacifism may contradict each other, but they are both departures from the mid-19th century conventional wisdom, and are not held by the same people. Sometimes the violence and the pacidism are applied to different causes. It can get very particular.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  98. You think it’s common sense and so you see it as goid, but my common sense says it doesn’t work at all.

    DRJ (15874d)

  99. Good, not goid.

    DRJ (15874d)

  100. I routinely use joint defense agreements in multiparty civil litigation. Sometimes they’re one-sentence email exchanges between lawyers. In one multi-party situation — involving between 30-40 corporate defendants in two partially overlapping lawsuits involving the DoJ and a like number of state attorneys-general on the other side — we literally spent a full business week of day-long meetings negotiating the details of what became a thirty-page joint defense agreement (not counting exhibits and appendices).

    It’s very hard to get forward-looking injunctive relief — a court order compelling someone’s future behavior or non-behavior — for violation of contractual agreements, and it would likewise be very hard to get money damages for someone’s violation of a joint defense agreement.

    But a lawyer who’s knowingly and intentionally done something clearly unethical — like deceiving a colleague with whom he’d made a written agreement of cooperation, whose terms required each cooperator to advise the others immediately upon dropping out of the cooperation (including due to a newly minted or changed conflict of interest) — can lose his or her license, and more easily than that, his or her professional reputation. If our clients have contractually promised each other to maintain the continuing confidentiality of our joint communications on issues within our common areas of interest in the litigation, and as part of that, to specifically give advance notice before dropping out of the agreement, then that becomes a sort of transponder through which similarly situated defendants can confirm that for the moment anyway, everyone still seems to be (roughly speaking) “on the same side.” Helping a client break that contractual promise in order to deceive the other contracting clients would be ethically improper for the lawyer, akin to giving legal advice for purposes of committing a crime successfully.

    It’s an uncertain sanction, depending as it does on the self-enforcement of legal ethics rules that are often hard to interpret and harder to enforce. But nevertheless, in the real world in at least some circles and circumstances, a joint defense agreement does function as a way for litigants who share some common interests to structure the terms upon which they cooperate with respect to those common interests.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  101. Can potential criminal defendants enter into joint defense agreements?

    DRJ (15874d)

  102. Report: Saudi Crown Prince will ‘crush’ Hezbollah with Israel

    In the Daily Mail. It seems to slightly contradict itself. It says King Salman will officially declare his son King next week, but tehn says he will be like the Queen of ENgland, which would mean hs son will be de facto king but he will retain the title. That asrt is maybe not so unlikely.

    The further part is that he wants Israel to go to war with Hezbollah. He told all Saudis to evacuate lebanon. That is not going to happen unless Israel can’t avoid it. Israel is more likely to attack in Syria, but what it will attack (in discrete attacks, usually by airplanes) is mobilization or the entry of important new weapons into the theater near Israel. If done early enough, they probably think that can avoid an all-out war. They’re just going to attack attempts to build up and meanwhile or before try to head it off diplomatically.

    Hariri has returned to lebanon, with the backing of France, now, instead of saudi Arabia, and is trying to assert a little bit more authority than before..

    Theer have been thinbgs printed in various Gulf papers about the idea of normalization of relations with Israek.

    Meanwhile bith Saudi Araboia and the Houthi are targeting hospitals in Yemen.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  103. @82 ABB

    Nixon wasn’t impeached at all. Not sure what your point is, as always.

    Pinandpuller (3e38b3)

  104. Yup, such is my understanding, DRJ. The concept originated among criminal defense lawyers, though, and then spread to civil litigation contexts.

    The Texas Supreme Court wrote a really good opinion about the public policy justifications supporting this privilege a few years ago in a case called In re XL Specialty Ins. Co. (Tex. 2012), discussing attorney-client privilege in joint client situations, joint defense agreements among multiple co-defendants, and even broader “common interest” privileges (which don’t necessarily even require on-going or threatened litigation).

    But you’ve got to tailor your agreement to the different situations that exist in criminal and civil contexts. And sometimes those overlap, as is common in fraud cases that spawn both civil and criminal charges.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  105. ABB

    I don’t think Orthodox Jews will run you over or gun you down on Shabbat or Rosh Hashana .

    Pinandpuller (3e38b3)

  106. 115.

    whose terms required each cooperator to advise the others immediately upon dropping out of the cooperation

    What’s supposed to have happened is that Mike Flynn’s lawyers have terminated their joint defense agreement (in criminal matters. though. with Donald Trump’s lawyers and that is the source of all of this speculation.

    It means Mike Flynn is probably planning to plead guilty to something and all these people think, or somebody is spinning this to mean, that that means he has something bad or incriminating to say about Trump.

    It’s trum who wanted him, montsh ago, to be given immunity so he could testify. Trump’s not been afraid of what Flynn could say about him unless that’s a big bluff. He thinks Flynn testifying truthfully could clear him of colluding in anything criminal.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  107. In a serious fight over claiming and exploding privileges, where litigants (criminal or civil) have been obliged to create a privilege log as part of an an attempted assertion of privilege, these joint defense agreements themselves are discoverable. The week-long conference I described above was an attempt for a bunch of codefendants to impose self-discipline upon the group to limit, without eliminating, the participants’ respective abilities to drop out and go their own separate ways (being excluded from further participation in the group) — especially without notice to the others who are still in the group. The plaintiff/prosecution is always going to have the divide and conquer incentive, and a big group of defendants is going to recognize that one or more of them might indeed take a deal as part of which they’ll be required to blab cooperatively. But with a good joint defense agreement in place, that should be announced by a quiet communication to the remaining group that henceforward, they ought not count on the settling defendant to keep to the joint defense agreement, including (especially) its confidentiality provisions that are intended to avoid unknowing waivers of anyone’s potential privileges of any sort.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  108. 120. Pinandpuller (3e38b3) — 11/24/2017 @ 11:10 am

    I don’t think Orthodox Jews will run you over or gun you down on Shabbat or Rosh Hashana

    Only, at worst, throw stones, although that probably violates Shabbos, not to mention other halachah. This happens mmostly only in Jerusalem or maybe Beth Shemesh. (the people who do this pronounce it mostly as Shabbos)

    http://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-Politics/Haredim-throw-stones-at-buses-in-Beit-Shemesh

    They’ve gone off the derech.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  109. No sammeh is what is observable and able to be reproduced under laboratory conditions. Yikes.

    narciso (9f4736)

  110. Remember Jason Leopold and crogmarching Cheney, yes it’s that level of authenticity.

    narciso (9f4736)

  111. John Singleton has a controversial movie coming out called Shabbas Goys in the Ghetto.

    It’s loosely based on an Amish drive-by shooting joke.

    Pinandpuller (3e38b3)

  112. 124. narciso (9f4736) — 11/24/2017 @ 11:17 am

    No sammeh is what is observable and able to be reproduced under laboratory conditions. Yikes.

    First of all, that’s an important limitation tgaht opevents you from making sattements about many thinsg. Second, they ignore it. (e.g. climate “Science.” Third, usually nopbdy othes to repoiduce what can come up is attemopting to build upon it. Fourth, the catch is “peer review” and taht can be controlled to suppress anything that disproves what is being said.

    There are numerous instances of dogma staying the same for 30 or 40 years or longer even though it was wrong.

    For years, it was asserted taht hman beings have 24 pairs of chromosomes, and pictures were primted declaring theer to be 24 pairs (48 chromsomes) even though if you looked at the picture and counted there’d be only 23 pairs. All sortsfo dogma in medical science stayed for years. If everybody ddin’t have to agree, progress would be much faster.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  113. You know, if you have a legume allergy peanuts are just as dangerous as grizzly bears.

    Pinandpuller (3e38b3)

  114. No sammeh that is Vulcan dna.

    narciso (9f4736)

  115. Sammy

    Didn’t you say “Dov” was Hebrew for bear? I think ABB must be making a joke. Like dov[s] and doves are equally as dangerous.

    I mean, in theory, yes. A dove might push you off a sacred Temple Mount but a dov will kill 42 kids for mocking a prophet.

    Pinandpuller (3e38b3)

  116. Sammy

    The Law and Order schtick is “Torn from Today’s Headlines.” An orthodox dov killing 42 kids is a story at least 2,600 years old. Jihadi doves killing hundred is yesterday.

    Another way to say it is Orthodox have killed their hundreds, Jihadis have killed their hundreds of thousands. Obviously men after Allah’s own heart. Which is not YHWH. Never was never will be.

    Pinandpuller (3e38b3)

  117. Daddy, what’s moral equivalency?

    Well son, that’s when a guy named Ben hates faithful Jews and Christians more than he hates faithful Muslims.

    Pinandpuller (3e38b3)

  118. Yes you notice ‘torn from the headlines’ means the endings are all mcguffin.

    narciso (6e50d9)

  119. @82 ABB

    Nixon wasn’t impeached at all. Not sure what your point is, as always.

    Whatever layer of bulloney you prefer.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  120. Yes he was not removed from office, but forced out for practices that had been coin of the realm for the previous quarter century, this is why I entertain the watchmen alt history (illustrations by the same fellow as give me liberty

    narciso (6e50d9)

  121. Pin scribbling If you mean bologna, you spelled it wrong

    Thank you Watchman.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  122. If you’ve read James hougans spooks he’ll apprise of this context, of course there wee private contractors like Howard Hughes that oerfirmed govt duties.

    narciso (d1f714)

  123. Infer- legal meaning-i got nothing.
    It is getting old watching mueller finance his next oceanfront purchase.

    mg (60b0f7)

  124. That’s a scurrilous thing to say about another Republican mg. Shame!

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  125. @108. Maybe in public schools where reinventing the 3rs led to new math idiocy.

    … only a child can do it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=samZhaDravI

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  126. DC

    Worse than was the war on literacy. When I asked my son’s 3rd grade teacher why he could read but not spell…

    We don’t concern ourselves with spelling because of Spellcheck

    Verbatim and unabashed.

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  127. Moore stumpers make war on Thanksgiving.

    http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/index.ssf/2017/11/thanksgiving_night_fight_at_ri.html

    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  128. @143– when the niece and nephew were going through grace school, those TI pocket calculators weren’t particularly welcomed in classrooms either.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  129. ^ grace = grade

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  130. I’m guessing they are more Jones folk. Just saying.

    narciso (d1f714)

  131. the result of the Montessori teaching method where participants are taught results matter more than method, facts are sometimes disposable or at least expendable, and you should only know what your “teachers” guide you to know. It’s the secular/professional approach to life that Democrats have embraced for decades.
    DRJ (15874d) — 11/24/2017 @ 10:21 am

    It sounds like a not fully informed jury.

    Pinandpuller (38eb0f)

  132. It’s more like the dc jury that convicted Ted Stevens, complete with an alternate in full federation uniform.

    narciso (d1f714)

  133. And that wasn’t nearly the strangest thing going on in that trial.

    narciso (d1f714)

  134. It’s funny how some stories just dissapear:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/Imperator_Rex3/status/934212970162274304

    narciso (d1f714)

  135. Only, at worst, throw stones, although that probably violates Shabbos, not to mention other halachah. This happens mmostly only in Jerusalem or maybe Beth Shemesh.

    So they are basically Irishmen?

    I Threw a Brick Through a Window U2

    Pinandpuller (38eb0f)

  136. Pin scribbling If you mean bologna, you spelled it wrong

    Thank you Watchman.
    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 11/24/2017 @ 1:11 pm

    I don’t like it no matter how you spell it. But I’m always down for fun’splaining.

    Pinandpuller (38eb0f)

  137. It referred to Alan Moore, the in iterate leftist anarchist and his version of a dystopia, a bunch of super heroes won the Vietnam war. (Well mostly the creepy Dr. Manhattan) so president for life Nixon bans them, or something.

    narciso (d1f714)

  138. Worse than was the war on literacy. When I asked my son’s 3rd grade teacher why he could read but not spell…

    We don’t concern ourselves with spelling because of Spellcheck

    Verbatim and unabashed.
    Admiral Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 11/24/2017 @ 2:44 pm

    With an admiral for a daddy he could still be one of the worst pilots and senators of all time.

    Pinandpuller (38eb0f)

  139. Of course the question of whybthe soviet’s would continue the armsrace if we had a nearly omnipotent superbeing on our side was left unstated78

    narciso (d1f714)

  140. That’s probably my least favorite Patrick Wilson movie. You know, he and Scott Foley married sisters. SF wrote and directed a movie with all of them called Let’s Kill Ward’s Wife if you like black comedy. There are actually three sisters, all married to actors, all in that movie.

    Pinandpuller (38eb0f)

  141. Really worse than the a team, he got very strange after news radio ended. Thorn is did Joe organ.

    narciso (d1f714)

  142. So did Joe rogan, foley did have an amusing cameo in justified.

    narciso (d1f714)

  143. Oh the follwup to watchmen, is even less subtle otf that were possible.

    narciso (d1f714)

  144. There was a followup to Watchmen?

    NJRob (b00189)

  145. At least one prequel, but this new one countdown came out on Wednesday

    narciso (d1f714)

  146. Sorry doomsday click ser in 1992. But very historical.

    narciso (d1f714)

  147. Ahh, thought you meant Alan Moore wrote a follow up.

    I have no interest in reading another SJW’s interpretation that’s even more anti-American and left wing than the original source material.

    NJRob (a06222)

  148. I’ve had my present cable for about seven years, and just last week discovered that my package included all the HBO channels. Since then, I’ve watched almost two hours of it.

    nk (dbc370)

  149. There are two Patrick Wilson movies that somewhat relate to current events: Hard Candy and Barry Munday. Both worth seeing I think.

    Pinandpuller (38eb0f)

  150. 3. mg (60b0f7) — 11/23/2017 @ 3:17 pm

    Flynn has issues with his involvement with a Turkey cleric. I think he pocketed $500 grand.

    No, he was involved with a Turkish publisher, who also was a big contributor to Erdogan, the Turkish head of government who recently rewrote the Turkish constitution and since an attempted coup has arrested large numbers of people (it’s even affecting people who work for thee U.S. embassy) He’s turning into a near dictator and almost ally of Russia.

    Erdogan was term limited I think as Prime Minister and became president and now president is the most powerful office. Flynn thought that since he was being paid by the publisher, he didn’t have to register as a foreign agent although what he was lobbying for were not things of concern to the business but rather were of concern to the Turkish government.

    The cleric is Fethulla Gulen, age 75, who went into voluntary exile in Pennsylvania some year ago. he founded a movement,, part of which was to infiltrate institutions of government and other institutions. Erdogan’s party used to be allied with him. Later they broke. Ergodan blames him for the coup attempt, possibly honestly, more likely dishonestly. Gulen came out against the coup and has also been against violence. The position of the United States government is it up to the courts and they need some proof in order to extradite him.

    Sammy Finkelman (762ee4)

  151. Pinandpuller (3e38b3) — 11/24/2017 @ 12:00 pm

    Didn’t you say “Dov” was Hebrew for bear?

    Yes. The “v” is a letter that can be pronounced ‘b” or “v” in different circumstances. It is the second letter of the alphabet. That ‘v” is different from the “v” of David, whch was probably originally pronounced like a “w” (and the Yemenite Jews did that I think when they lived in Yemen.) Tat accounts maybe for how the vav became used as vowel. Dovid might derive from a meaning meaning beloved, which also somehow became a word for uncle.

    I think ABB must be making a joke. Like dov[s] and doves are equally as dangerous.

    Well here what we have is a multi-lingual pun.

    I mean, in theory, yes. A dove might push you off a sacred Temple Mount but a dov will kill 42 kids for mocking a prophet.

    Talking about the Temple Mount, the terrorist group which just massacred some 300 people in a Sufi mosque in the Sinai peninsula desert is named after the Temple (the Hebrew words Beis Ha-Mikdash in Arabic. It may be a term previously used by Moslems) They changed their name to ISIS, and then changed it back when ISIS didn’t want to be associated with them because they weren’t ready to do things against Israel. Israel. (but they flew the ISIS flag) Israel also built a wall along the Egyptian border. They used to get some help from Hamas, maybe not any more, or it’s more secret.

    Sammy Finkelman (762ee4)

  152. Interesting …

    LATimes:
    As he investigates Trump’s aides, Robert Mueller’s record shows surprising flaws
    http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-mueller-record-20171122-story.html

    Newsweek:
    Robert Mueller Is a Hot Head Who Can’t Own Up to His Mistakes, Former Aides Say
    http://www.newsweek.com/robert-mueller-special-counsel-russia-aides-criticize-722670

    This can’t be good.

    Neo (d1c681)

  153. Actually his flaws were even greater:

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/05/the-wrong-man/308019/

    All too willing to be driven to an erroneous indictment

    narciso (d1f714)

  154. U.S. Senator Al Franken – that poor excuse for/example of manhood – says he can’t remember if he’d ever inappropriately grabbed a woman’s ass or anything else because he’s taken literally thousands of photos in chaotic scenes.

    Colonel Haiku (647002)

  155. Flynn’s lawyer confirmed he is not talking to Trump’s lawyers but so far only anonymous souyrces say he is talking to prosecutors, which he probably is.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)


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