Patterico's Pontifications

11/12/2017

UH-OH: This Poll Is Not Looking Good For Roy Moore

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 1:12 pm

If you had told me that the Democrat would be up four points in Alabama in a Senate election, I would have told you politely that drugs are bad for you. But that is the case, at least according to this poll by JMC Analytics showing Doug Jones leading Roy Moore, 46% to 42%.

The poll even shows 29% of voters more likely to back Moore after the publication of the Washington Post story alleging that he molested a 14-year-old girl in 1979. (38% are less likely to back him.) If you’re looking for evidence that Republicans deeply distrust Big Media, buddy, you just found it.

I’ll leave it to poll experts to pull this apart. For the record, I still think Moore will win. And I think he will help Trump drag the party down with him. In any event, it’s a pretty stunning result — except for the fact that, in Trump World, nothing is stunning anymore.

[Cross-posted at RedState and The Jury Talks Back.]

222 Responses to “UH-OH: This Poll Is Not Looking Good For Roy Moore”

  1. Cue chants of TDS and descriptions of outlier Breitbart poll by the Republican who worked for Moore.

    That mockery aside, I still think Moore wins. Even said so in the post.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  2. “drag the party down”??

    The GOP was already lower than a snakes belly before Trump and had been for some time. Its lowness was one of the large reasons it got Trumped.

    Fred Z (05d938)

  3. And after Doug Jones takes the Senate seat, Senators John McCain and Bob Corker will switch to the Democratic Party, to make Chuck Schumer Majority Leader, just because they hate President Trump so much. That will only mean no more judicial nominations confirmed, no immigration reform, no border wall, not one decent thing gets done.

    Let’s be brutally frank here: the choice is between one Republican who may or may not have attempted to — but still failed — f(ornicate) an underaged girl thirty years ago, or a Democrat who will attempt to f(ornicate) the whole country right now.

    If Roy Moore is elected, and sufficient real evidence against him is developed, he can resign or be expelled, and the Republican governor of Alabama can appoint a Republican to finish the Senate term. Sloppy, messy, ugly, but still better than having a Democrat in that seat.

    The Dana who can count (8110d1)

  4. we can do the slurpy Democrat abortion candidate all up in it so good

    #babypartsforsaleohnoes

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  5. Alcee Hastings
    Gary Studds
    Teddy Kennedy

    The Democrats’ outrage at poor Congressional behavior seems limited. When the House expels Hastings, I’ll accept that some things disqualify folks from office. Studds served 8 terms after seducing a 17yo male page.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  6. Patterico,

    Which is worse: a socialist who may tip the Senate to the Socialists, or someone who did some unsavory things when he was young and stupid?

    And if you don’t think this is a two-valued choice and you can opt out, tell that to the IRS.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  7. “Once a baby is born, I become a right-to-lifer.” – nevertrump Senate darling Doug Jones

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  8. Yee haw! Aint’ politics fun, y’all!

    Q! (86710c)

  9. a two-valued choice

    is this how we say “binary choice” when we think alabama people might be reading?

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  10. If Roy Moore is elected, and sufficient real evidence against him is developed, he can resign or be expelled, and the Republican governor of Alabama can appoint a Republican to finish the Senate term. Sloppy, messy, ugly, but still better than having a Democrat in that seat.
    The Dana who can count (8110d1) — 11/12/2017 @ 1:27 pm

    A Clear and Present Danger

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  11. that means the danger of electing a nevertrump socialist abortion-slurper favored by grand wizard Mitt Romney is clear and present

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  12. I believe the poll and wouldn’t be shocked to see the democrat win. I suspect that’s what this ad was about. He’s not taking any chances.

    crazy (d99a88)

  13. And if you don’t think this is a two-valued choice and you can opt out, tell that to the IRS.

    Right now it’s the Republicans who are trying to fornicate with me against my will.

    Let the Democrats pass a tax hike on me and Trump might veto it.

    Let the GOP pass one and he’ll sign it.

    You might be able to find issues where I care about the Senate moving to the Dems, but this one was a swing and a miss. Try again. Judges would be better.

    Anyway I have no say in this election anyway, so I am opted out whether I like it or not.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  14. Trump’s usual MO would be to demand a birth certificate.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  15. your link is no good Mr. crazy

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  16. Southern pride vs whatever you’d call what’s left of Moore’s campaign. This is how they flipped a bunch of seats in ’08. Republicans could have gotten behind Mo Brooks but they took him out leaving the primary to two compromised choices – the guy who let the crooked gov go or Moore.

    crazy (d99a88)

  17. where did my comment go

    Roy Moore isn’t compromised Mr. crazy he’s just being slimed with no evidence by a bunch of lying honey boo boos what wapo paid to crawl out of the woodwork like cucarachas (minimum wage cucarachas)

    And I shivered as I watched a roach crawl across the toe of my high-heeled shoe.

    one of these hoochies her only complaint is when she was 18 she had a glass of wine with Mr. Moore but she wasn’t supposed to drink until she was 19

    which, she doesn’t even say he forced her to drink it so she probably kinda made her choice right there to walk with Satan all by herself (prince of lies)

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  18. this is a response to Mr. crazy at #16 where he says Mr. Moore is compromised but where i disagree cause it’s all lies (cash for trash)

    there’s still EVERY REASON to belieber Mr. Moore better reflects the values and aspirations of Alabama voters cause of how he beat Mr. Strange so handily

    winning a primary when there’s a clear choice between you and your opponent is the exact opposite of being a compromised candidate – it means you’ve demonstrated your suitability to the people you are asking to represent!

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  19. Well, since someone brought up compromise, who is the most acceptable right of center person to be nominated in New Jersey? How badly do the Dems need a southern success story?

    urbanleftbehind (a69ce6)

  20. APPOINTED

    urbanleftbehind (a69ce6)

  21. where did my comment go

    It was trashed.

    Due to your statement that these witnesses were paid.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  22. “hoochie” and “hoochies” will now trigger the filter.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  23. “slurpy” does too.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  24. Due to your statement that these witnesses were paid.

    grand wizard Mitt Romney says we don’t need evidence anymore to make accusations

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  25. that filter sure is easily triggered

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  26. Drugs are bad for you.

    See that egg frying in the pan? That’s your brain on drugs. Right next to it is a side of bacon.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  27. grand wizard Mitt Romney says we don’t need evidence anymore to make accusations

    No he doesn’t. You’re lying. He says: “Innocent until proven guilty is for criminal convictions, not elections.” That means you take the evidence available in the public square and make a decision.

    If it’s shit evidence emanating from a guy who doesn’t know if he has three or four Purple Hearts, but your name is happyfeet and you keep Donald Trump’s backside wet with your slobber, good enough!

    If the evidence is compelling and corroborated by multiple witnesses, but goes against your partisan hackery-based conclusion, then you make shit up and smear everyone in sight.

    You are a disgusting human being. You seriously make me sick.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  28. “We’ll try to stay serene and calm… when Ala-bama gets the bomb.” – Tom Lehrer

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  29. Those polls in 2016 sure got that election right. I would imagine polling in Alabama would be even less accurate.

    I expect him to be elected and he is coming out with something that might be evidence that WaPoo paid the women.

    If it turns out there is evidence of misbehavior, he said he would resign.

    I would certainly not vote for him but the WaPoo has been so obviously unethical going back to Watergate, that nothing they say cam be trusted.

    Mike K (b3dd19)

  30. If it turns out there is evidence of misbehavior, he said he would resign.

    Um, there’s evidence of misbehavior.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  31. “Innocent until proven guilty is for criminal convictions, not elections.”

    this says to me that when you do allegations on a candidate, they don’t need to amount to proof of guilt, and the way we establish proof is with evidence

    therefore I take grand wizard Mitt Romney to be saying we can look past a lack of evidence in these matters and just go with our gut

    and my gut tells me these women were suborned

    truth be told however i think this is an unsustainable theorem, this Romney Theorem Of Guilt – indeed, I think this is an ad hoc theorem grand wizard Mitt Romney has contrived solely for the present case at hand (Roy Moore)

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  32. Remember, Mr. Feet, he let 37% of the dogs out; “Corporations are people, my friend.”

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  33. ^ 47%.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  34. now what did i trigger

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  35. is ok cause i did a misspeller on something but what was the trigger on that one

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  36. ohhh i copied your S word

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  37. If the evidence is compelling and corroborated by multiple witnesses, but goes against your partisan hackery-based conclusion, then you make s-word up and smear everyone in sight.

    the most serious charge is how he supposedly touched someone through her bra and panties on their second date

    but this is wholly uncorroborated

    the closest is how some nickel-pickle in California say oh yeah she told me about this old guy what had tight white underwears

    hello EVERYBODY wore tighty whities in the late 70s

    the underwear fashion revolution hadn’t even started yet

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  38. DC

    Unabridged version..“Corporations are people, my friend,” Romney said. “Everything corporations earn ultimately goes to the people. Where do you think it goes? Whose pockets? People’s pockets! Human beings, my friend.”

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  39. grand wizard Mitt Romney

    Are you saying that Romney is a Klan official, or is this just anti-Mormon bigotry?

    Kevin M (752a26)

  40. The 47% tape was doctored.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  41. @3. Not quite principled but reasonably pragmatic.

    Our Captain would grant you an extra portion of strawberries tonight.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  42. i’m saying he is a grand wizard (and self-styled moral arbiter)

    grand wizard Mitt Romney’s done everything he can to make it clear the Republican party has a white supremacy problem, and as such he’s done more to elevate the stature of an infinitesimally tiny american white supremacist movement than practically anybody

    why would he do that

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  43. an infinitesimally tiny american white supremacist movement until grand wizard Mitt Romney started his manic tweetings what immensely elevated their profile

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  44. If you’d told me back in 2014 that I’d be reading the sort of stuff that is posted day after day on 2017’s PP 2.wacko, I’d have told you that you were flyin’ on 11 different herbs and spices… and we’re not talking Colonel Sanders.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  45. Actually we were over macho grande seven years. But were debating the unconfirmable because we got everything else squared away.

    narciso (d1f714)

  46. Then why bother reading, let alone commenting?

    DRJ (15874d)

  47. But we’ll we busking the crawfish
    http://winwithjmc.com/archives/7578

    narciso (d1f714)

  48. They say politics makes strange bedfellows.

    Pinandpuller (3c8b4b)

  49. Bedfellows 40 years ago makes strange politics.

    Pinandpuller (3c8b4b)

  50. I have two yellow dogs I can write in come 2018. Sophie and Scrappy. I didn’t name them, they came with the house.

    Pinandpuller (3c8b4b)

  51. DCSCA wrote:

    @3. Not quite principled but reasonably pragmatic.

    It’s both. If this attempt succeeds, you can count on it: every Republican candidate, in every race in the country, will face unprovable charges that he had committed some sort of sexual impropriety with some girl — or boy! — somewhere. All the left will have to dig up is some girl who was inappropriately aged and who could reasonably have met the candidate in question, and who is a die-hard Resister, and there you go. Nothing needs to be actually true, merely credible.

    The left tried this bovine feces with Anita Hill, who actually followed Clarence Thomas to a second job, after the alleged sexual harassment occurred, and it failed, so the left let the tactic drop. Now, with Harvey Wallbanger and the others — even Mr Sulu! — in the public eye, with a special election at hand in an otherwise reliably Republican seat, well, Hell! why not try it again?

    Edwin Edwards’ formulation has been left well in the past.

    The very principled Dana (8110d1)

  52. Then why bother reading, let alone commenting?

    Upvoted

    Patterico (115b1f)

  53. It’s a,Louisiana pollster who was off by at least 100 electoral votes

    narciso (d1f714)

  54. I knew the Colonel, Sanders
    He was a good friend of mine
    Haiku, you ain’t him!

    The Limerick Avenger (8110d1)

  55. Did no one suggest to the primary loser:

    Get some Strange

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  56. It’s both. If this attempt succeeds, you can count on it: every Republican candidate, in every race in the country, will face unprovable charges that he had committed some sort of sexual impropriety with some girl — or boy!
    The very principled Dana (8110d1) — 11/12/2017 @ 3:52 pm

    If only there was a way to get that mixed race kid in Arkansas matched up with Bill Clinton’s DNA.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  57. pro-tip: don’t try to match a dna sample from Chelsea

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  58. The guy in ‘Bama’s in trouble
    Not football, there was no fumble
    He saw a cute chick
    Thought with his dick
    Now Doug Jones is ready to rumble!

    The Limerick Avenger (8110d1)

  59. @ Col. Haiku,

    If you’d told me back in 2014 that I’d be reading the sort of stuff that is posted day after day on 2017’s PP 2.wacko, I’d have told you that you were flyin’ on 11 different herbs and spices… and we’re not talking Colonel Sanders.

    Funny, if you had told me back in 2014 that long-time commenters on the right would be dismissing the same sort of accusations and behaviors of Republican politicians that they once criticized Democrats for when they were accused of them because party loyalty to the GOP would supersede any long-held values and principles, I’d have told you no way. But here we are.

    Dana (023079)

  60. If it turns out there is evidence of misbehavior, he said he would resign</em

    This is a man who, having sworn at least twice*, probably three times, to uphold and defend the Constitution, violated that oath. And had to be metaphorically dragged screaming and kicking off the bench as a result. Why should I think he'd honor a mere verbal promise.

    *On entering the military, on becoming a judge, and, if Alabama's oath is parallel to Florida's, on being admitted to the Bar.

    kishnevi (80558c)

  61. Doug Jones thought that he’d found the way
    Find a chick and get her to say
    When I met Roy
    He weren’t a boy
    But I was only fourteen that day!

    The Limerick Avenger (8110d1)

  62. dismissing the same sort of accusations and behaviors of Republican politicians

    even if Mr. Moore were 100% guilty per the wapo fake news allegations

    he’ll represent Alabama better than an abortion-loving socialist and that’s what’s important

    even if Mr. Moore were 100% guilty per the wapo fake news allegations

    he’s still morally superior to dozens and dozens of these filthy-assed senators that we know of – and quite likely morally superior to many many others whose moral deficiencies are less apparent than some of their more flagrantly sleazy peers

    as you can see all in all Roy Moore is the best choice for Alabama!

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  63. With a target like Roy Moore to work with, my bet is that as Moore himself indeed put it, there are more revelations to come. He meant revelations about the current accusers’ motives. I mean revelations of additional accusers.

    I think it’s too soon, then, to be making any predictions.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  64. This is a man who, having sworn at least twice*, probably three times, to uphold and defend the Constitution, violated that oath.

    hello Mr. kishnevi many many of the Roy Moore haters here applauded that nasty bigoted homophobic kentucky woman when she refused to fulfill her oath of office in Kentucky (Kim Davis)

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  65. @52.It’s both. If this attempt succeeds, you can count on it: every Republican candidate, in every race in the country, will face unprovable charges that he had committed some sort of sexual impropriety with some girl — or boy! — somewhere.

    We’ll see– ‘every’ may be a stretch. But there is a checkered history of this sort of impropriety in high profile local, state and nat’l public service circles. And given the recent climate of the ‘are-you-now-or-have-you-ever-been-a-member-of-the-communist-party-and-or-a-sex-predator’ times we’re going through it’s certainly going to be a higher priority in vetting any party candidates across the board. Not to mention all professions w/less public scrutiny for a time until some new titillating diversion surfaces. One thing is likely; men will think thrice about complimenting women at work on her look in a new dress, a pleasant smile or risk eyeing a shapely pair of gams– unless safely home watchin’ the Barbies on Fox News.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  66. if they’re already reduced to “i had a glass of wine with Mr. Moore when i was 18 but legally i was opposed to be 19″ then i think it’s safe to say the honey boo boo barrel’s tapped out

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  67. Sorry for the lost bracket…
    Re Jones’s ad: he refers to William C. Oates, a Confederate colonel who served in the Army of Northern Virginia, lost an arm when wounded during the Siege of Petersburg, went on to become Governor of Alabama, and a brigadier general during the Spanish American War… don’t know for sure, but he must be one of the few Confederate officers who served as officers in the US Army after the Civil War.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_C._Oates

    kishnevi (80558c)

  68. The really big loser in this is the cowboy hat.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  69. @ happyfeet,

    he’ll represent Alabama better than an abortion-loving socialist and that’s what’s important

    Oh, please, happyfeet, as if you give a rip that anyone is an abortion lover. You of all people invoking that.

    Dana (023079)

  70. pro-tip: don’t try to match a dna sample from Chelsea
    happyfeet (28a91b) — 11/12/2017 @ 4:05 pm

    National Treasure III The Smithsonian

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  71. *On entering the military, on becoming a judge, and, if Alabama’s oath is parallel to Florida’s, on being admitted to the Bar.
    kishnevi (80558c) — 11/12/2017 @ 4:11 pm

    What about when filing bankruptcy?

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  72. I think it’s too soon, then, to be making any predictions
    He’ll win. The same Alabama voters who don’t mind him calling for his personal interpretation of the Bible to supersede the laws of the US have no problem believing these charges are a plot by Satan’s minions.

    Myself, I object to his theocratic leanings, but am inclined to believe that if the Post had to go back that far to dig up dirt, there probably is not more recent dirt, and that he is one of those men who actually maintained their marriage vows despite being a politician.

    kishnevi (80558c)

  73. Um, there’s evidence of misbehavior.

    Spoken like a prosecutor I would never want to see in court.

    What evidence, if you don’t mind backing up your assertion?

    Accusations ? What if the wife comes up with evidence of payment?

    Already one detail has been disproven.

    Corfman told the Post that she spoke with Moore on her phone in her bedroom. As one woman of my acquaintance who lived in the deep South during that era guaranteed, 14 year-old girls in Alabama didn’t have phones in their rooms back then.

    Corfman, it turns out, was no exception. Aaron Klein reports that Corfman’s mother, Nancy Wells, told Breitbart News that her daughter did not have a phone in her bedroom during the period when Moore allegedly called the girl.

    Not definitive but not evidence the other way.

    I remember when George Stephanopilis went to the hotel where Juanita Broderick said Clinton raped her. He was looking for evidence her story was false. He looked out the window to see if something she had described could be seen from that window. It could. Nothing was ever said about proof.

    They call that “evidence” counselor.

    Mike K (b3dd19)

  74. The really big loser in this is the cowboy hat.

    As impressive as his pop-gun.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  75. How many accusers are there?

    How many do you need?

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  76. Oh, please, happyfeet, as if you give a rip that anyone is an abortion lover. You of all people invoking that.

    i only invoke it when i want to point out lifeydoodle inconsistency bordering on hypocrisy

    if abortion is so awful then there’s really no choice here that i can see

    nobody’s called into question Mr. Moore’s stalwart and steadfast beliefs on abortion

    and it’s curious

    you’d think a rambunctious sexual predator would be a big abortion fan

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  77. @74. What evidence, if you don’t mind backing up your assertion?

    Not an attorney, but would think an established ‘behaviorial pattern’ can be considered as a form of ‘evidence.’

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  78. He’s an abortion lover

    not an abortion fighter

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  79. Surprise. Surprise. Iowa’s Rep. Steve King throws some support to Roy Moore. He tweeted, “Judge Roy Moore told to withdraw by Senators who won’t or can’t help move Trump agenda.”

    Steve King is from Iowa but proudly displayed the Confederate flag in his office. Yea, that type of guy. Birds of a feather.

    noel (b4d580)

  80. Not an attorney, but would think an established ‘behaviorial pattern’ can be considered as a form of ‘evidence.’
    DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/12/2017 @ 4:43 pm

    His juvenile record has been sealed Mr DCSCA.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  81. Or at least obscured by time.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  82. Since you quoted Mirengoff, you could have quoted what he said about the meaning of that disproved detail

    Does Corfman’s faulty recollection about the phone undercut the thrust of that story? I spent decades working with and examining witnesses. In my view, Corfman’s mistake about the bedroom phone is the kind of error people often make when trying to remember details from the distant past. I don’t think her mistake regarding this detail bears much, if at all, on her overall credibility.

    Corfman’s claim of sexual misconduct by Moore is not a detail. If she is erring about this matter, she’s not failing to remember something incidental. Her “error,” if she’s making one, is of a different nature — a lie, a delusion, or a substantial embellishment.

    I think there are substantial reasons to disbelieve Corfman’s claim of improper sexual touching. I discussed them here. I don’t think her mistake about the location of the phone provides additional reason to dispute her claim.

    kishnevi (80558c)

  83. 17. 68. That ad probably went over the head of everybody except people already ready to vote for Doug Jones, or perhaps people who will receive or have received a more elaborate explanation via direct mail or email, blog posts or some newspaper articles.

    The idea is that the problem in Congress is that Republicans aren’t willing to compromise, as the Senator from Maine (Susan Collins) would like to see happen. That’s why he picked Maine. It was what they call a dog whistle. You’d have to be pretty much into the inside baseball to understand it, but there may be a surprising number of people who do -and he only needs to swing some of the more educated Republicans.

    The only thing is, this is a false picture of what’s going on in Congress. The real problem is that the Democrats are all voting in lockstep, and Doug Jones would too, and they can’t break away any single one of them to vote for a Republican sponsored bill.

    The reason Democrats vote in lockstep is probably due to the campaign finance system, which permits much greater contributions to a party than to a candidate and allows de facto campaign donations to a party to be directed to a candidate, not to mention anyway favored candidates getting contributions. And Democratic Senators who raise large amounts of money, like Chuck Schumer, kick in to other candidates – in fact they even get assigned quotas.

    But Doug Jones wants to say, you won’t get Bernie Sanders type legislation or no more conservative judges from him – because there’s going to be a compromise. It’s a siren song.

    The only compromise will be something that Chuck Schumer goes along with, which maybe might not be so bad, if he didn’t want to drag the whole Democratic Party along and keep it together.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e756e)

  84. Steve King is from Iowa but proudly displayed the Confederate flag in his office. Yea, that type of guy. Birds of a feather.
    noel (b4d580) — 11/12/2017 @ 4:44 pm

    One of my great great grandpas fought for an Iowa regiment. He was captured at Shiloh and taken to Libby Prison but I still think South Carolina is for lovers.

    Do you know

    About Angel Glow

    Spoiler

    It’s Bacteria

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  85. Wrote this as pushback to hf but sat on it when #18 went poof:

    You don’t have to agree with his positions to recognize he was the epitome of an activist judge and doesn’t deserve to be rewarded for it. He’s probably been a bit of an oddball for a long time – likely throughout his West Point education and Army service – who for whatever reasons (bible-beating virgin?) wasn’t comfortable dating women his own age leaving him with no way to explain his professed innocence in any way anyone will find satisfactory. While he doesn’t strike me as either a predator or playboy, looks are deceiving. I would guess he’s too embarrassed of his awkward really-late-bloomerness if he is any way telling the truth, but that seems a stretch. The testimony is damning and his response is insufficient.

    We’re just gonna have to trust the voters and trust the Senate to handle this properly if he somehow wins unless the Governor finds a reason to reschedule the election.

    crazy (d99a88)

  86. Does Alabama want a DJ in the Senate?

    Heck no!

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  87. “When correctly viewed, everything is lewd. I could tell you things about Peter Pan. And the Wizard of Oz– there’s a dirty old man!” – Tom Lehrer

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  88. “Funny, if you had told me back in 2014 that long-time commenters on the right would be dismissing the same sort of accusations and behaviors of Republican politicians that they once criticized Democrats for when they were accused of them because party loyalty to the GOP would supersede any long-held values and principles, I’d have told you no way. But here we are.”

    When I watch MTP and hear that bearded clam host conflate these specious accusations made against Moore (unproven impossible to disprove 40 years later with Bill Clinton’s misdeeds, and read comments here that aren’t that different, we are in a different era.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  89. You don’t have to agree with his positions to recognize he was the epitome of an activist judge and doesn’t deserve to be rewarded for it.

    Yes yes he tried his hand at judging and it wasn’t really his thing, but he’d make a better senator than Doug Jones that’s for sure, and it might be nice to have an activist senator.

    I’m not too worried about his sex stuff. Seems to me like he’s done sowing his oats and such. He’s like almost the exact same age as grand wizard Mitt Romney!

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  90. @81/@82. Actually, P&P, was considering more the self-confessed behavioral pattern of a 70 year old man in a cowboy hat recalling his own behavior by stating on a national radio program:

    “I don’t remember dating any girl without the permission of her mother.”

    Dad’s be damned, eh.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  91. “Then why bother reading, let alone commenting?”

    I do read because I find the many manifestations of OCD very fascinating and I comment because the dismal tide deserves more pushback.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  92. that hat’s good for when you wanna keep that hot Alabama sun off your face Mr. DCSCA

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  93. To think we once believed this pompous invertebrate would make a good president

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  94. @93. Or playin’ “‘ride em’ cowboy” with the kiddie cowgirls, eh Mr. Feet.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  95. oh my goodness you make it sound dirty

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  96. @96. See #88– and blame Tom.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  97. Sammy, to the flag-waving good-old boys of Alabama who are tired of being trashed the ad’s saying “I’m not ashamed to be a son of the south. I’m one of you. I believe in the honor of our heritage and can work with those damn yankees in an honorable way to make Alabama proud unlike my dishonorable child-chasing opponent.” It’s kind of clever. While everyone else is trashing southern heritage Jones is defending it as the honorable thing to do. I doubt it’s a coincidence.

    crazy (d99a88)

  98. He’s not the sharpest knife in the drawer

    https://www.weaselzippers.us/363909-dem-senator-dodges-on-expelling-menendez/

    narciso (d1f714)

  99. Corfman told the Post that she spoke with Moore on her phone in her bedroom. As one woman of my acquaintance who lived in the deep South during that era guaranteed, 14 year-old girls in Alabama didn’t have phones in their rooms back then. Corfman, it turns out, was no exception. Aaron Klein reports that Corfman’s mother, Nancy Wells, told Breitbart News that her daughter did not have a phone in her bedroom during the period when Moore allegedly called the girl.

    That’s exactly what I said.

    I said she wouldn’t have a phone – this was a little bit too young, and they were too poor, and the phone would be listed, and you could check it out by obtaining a 1978 or 1979 Etowah County telephone book, and I was very confident she wouldn’t have a phone. Even though was still in the era of Ma bell and universal service, still installation cost some money and there was also the monthly telephone bill.

    The original Washington Post article didn’t say where the phone was, but they did want opeople to believe she had her own phone.

    And what did Patterico say – he called her on the house phone? And I sai, that’s the problem. And someone else said she was latchkey kid, and I say that’s still a problem because he has to know when to call. It presents a complication.

    Corfman’s mistake about the bedroom phone is the kind of error people often make when trying to remember details from the distant past.

    No, this is not the kind of detail people are going to forget. because they are going to remember , or will have once remembered, the telephone number, because you couldn’t call unless you knew the telephone number – and remember also, she says she gave it out. People do remember when they got their own phone for the first time. And if it was many years later, (and we can prove how many years later it was by checking old telephone books) she’s not going to think she had her own phone then, especially if she wasn’t living in the same place.

    No, I’ll tell you why she said she had her own phone. Because the person who invented the story was much younger than her – and nowadays many many children have their own cell phones. And it is necessary for it to be her own phone for the story to work.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e756e)

  100. Liz Smith is gone

    one of her best friends was a teacher i had once when i was really little, back in my dusty little south texas town

    she’d go visit Liz in NY every year and I thought it was astounding and wonderful that such a thing could be

    stayed friends with that teacher til she died

    wonderful lady

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  101. maybe they had a really long cord for when honey boo boo wanted to plan her trysts Mr. F

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  102. Maybe, but remember in those days home phones sometimes had long cords as they did in our house for example that my sisters stretched to their limit to get the phone behind a closed door. There are better reasons to believe or doubt her than this.

    crazy (d99a88)

  103. jinx!

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  104. R.I.P. Liz Smith.

    Trump secrets never die in a safe deposit box.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  105. I’ll tell you what kind of error a person can make.

    Last week I found in writing that on September 10, 2002 I voted at the Board of Elections. (I wrote it down because I record when I voted and what tine and what number voter I was) I would have been certain that I never voted that way – I always voted at my polling place.

    It was a point with me not to us the alternate method of voting for people who worked for the Board of Elections on Election Day because I always wanted my vote counted with all the others. Yet here I made an exception, and after 15 years, (or even less) I didn’t remember it.

    Some things completely slip your memory.

    I do remember voting by affidavit ballot – probably not counted – when I moved, and I had to emergency ballots once – in a presidential election – November 2 204 and I wrote down 112 + 11 emergency ballot number 11.

    And there’s another thing I can’t remember. I also found a picture last week of some kind of a machine that accepts cash and credit cards. I recognize this – it is fsmiliar to me — but I can’t remember now where I saw this. I remember I liked the way it looked, and I saw it a good number of times, and I took a picture of it.

    This was somewhere local in New York City. But it’s definitely not a Metrocard vending machine I think because its looks haven’t changed since they were first installed I think – and it’s nothing I think you could see in a bank.

    The picture was printed on May 22, 2003 by Kodak Perfect Touch processing.(so stamped on the back)

    You see a screen (which looks blank in the picture although it might not have been blank) on the left and a mostly green plated area on the right,

    There’s a slot – actually it looks like two slots or the left slot is just black oval shaped blob – – for coins and it says: $1 10c (to the right)

    COINS 25c 5c

    (on the next line

    All the writing there is white lettering on a black background all put on top of something green.

    And then below:

    BILLS
    $50
    $20
    $10
    $5
    $1

    and a silver metal self deposit that opens up to put bills in, where it days:

    INSERT BILLS FACE UP

    And below the video screen portion on the left it says AUDIO and has Braille lettering

    And below that still, white letters on a blue plate:

    CREDIT/ATM CARD

    And I can’t remember where there was, or for what purpose it was there.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e756e)

  106. 103. happyfeet (28a91b) — 11/12/2017 @ 5:44 pm

    maybe they had a really long cord

    They had extension lines in those days (much less common now) where you could pick up the phone in another room. But all the phones would ring. They had the same number.

    That wouldn’t eliminate the risk of her mother picking up the phone.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e756e)

  107. Sammy, I am guessing you were not a teenager in the ’70s. You’ve heard of extension phones and bedroom jacks? Every teenager in the 1970s had them. No separate number. But if you needed to, you unplugged the phone in the den, parents’s bedroom, or elsewhere, stuck it in the jack in your own room, and hey ho nonny no, you had a phone in your room. As long as you returned the phone to its proper place before the parents noticed…

    kishnevi (1c16da)

  108. Alright, you do know about extension phones…(we cross-posted).

    kishnevi (1c16da)

  109. What the heck is MTP Mr Colonel Haiku?

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  110. i think is when you meet the press

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  111. Deacon Blue Blogger’s Blues

    This is the day of the contracting blog
    It started that day with that Pepe teh Frog
    Here’s where I used to read
    It seems like only yesterday
    I gazed at my screen
    Exciting, great writing
    That’s all in the past

    You tell me I’m wrong
    You say it’s a crazy scheme
    I say it’s for real
    You’re helping the other team
    Don’t bother to ask me why
    Hissy fits and say goodbye
    Just write what you feel
    I’m saying that time wounds all heels

    Learn to work the saxophone
    Work it like Charles Johnsone
    Drink Scotch whiskey all night long
    And die behind the board
    They got a name for the bloggers on teh ‘net
    When it’s their way that they’ve lost
    They call TDSers the Dismal Tide
    Some day they’ll know the cost

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  112. I don’t remember dating any girl without the permission of her mother.”

    Dad’s be damned, eh.
    DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/12/2017 @ 5:28 pm

    He’s gyno-centric if not gyno-adjacent.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  113. It’s not hard to split a phone line you just have to be careful your mom didn’t really hang up.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  114. That wouldn’t eliminate the risk of her mother picking up the phone.
    Sammy Finkelman (8e756e) — 11/12/2017 @ 5:54 pm

    Is your refrigerator running?

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  115. 110. kishnevi (1c16da) — 11/12/2017 @ 6:01 pm

    Sammy, I am guessing you were not a teenager in the ’70s. You’ve heard of extension phones and bedroom jacks? Every teenager in the 1970s had them. No separate number.

    We had extensions before we had second numbers.

    I think my brother did get a separate number at some point in the late 1970s. I never had one.

    But if you needed to, you unplugged the phone in the den, parents’s bedroom, or elsewhere, stuck it in the jack in your own room, and hey ho nonny no, you had a phone in your room.

    We didn’t have a shortage of phones. The telephone company supplied them. I never heard of having an extension without a phone there.

    Anyway, what’s the point? If anyone did anything like that, they could talk in private but they couldn’t hide the fact the phone was missing.

    Later you would have jacks without phones, but that was if someone moved into some previously occupied home. The phone company didn’t just make jacks were there was no intention of putting in a phone.

    As long as you returned the phone to its proper place before the parents noticed…

    If they’re not going to notice the phone missing, they’re not going to notie you talking either. Well, OK I see, let’s say they’re in another room, maybe the kitchen, or one is. and they could notice a ring if the phone was still there. So I suppose someone expecting a call might do that. This would only make sense if someone knew calls would be coming.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e756e)

  116. 117. Refrigerators don’t make much noise and never did.

    By the way, refrigerators have shrunk. There is more insulation now. So the inside cubic feet is less than it used to be before for the same amount of outside cubic feet. I almost had an argument with my brother about that once.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e756e)

  117. We can put the matter of the phone aside.

    Detective Colombo will have other questions.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e756e)

  118. My cousin Amy knew this girl named Sherry. I actually went to school with her sister Kim, but I didn’t really know her.

    My cousin was actually trying to set me up with Sherry. I went to her house a few times and she asked me to Football Ball. This was at least one year after I graduated, maybe two. I didn’t even go when I was in HS. I said no.

    I didn’t see her for about a year until me and my friend Barry went to Taco Bell like you do and there she was making tacos!

    I may have been a little drunk. I recognized her but for whatever reason I totally forgot why I knew her. I said,”Hi Sherry,” perhaps very enthusiastically. Her work friends were like, woo, college guy talking to Sherry!

    All I could think to say was,”I went to school with Kim. Do you remember me?”

    Yeah. She remembered me all right. Pretty sure.

    Me and Barry got Mountain Dew and tacos like you do and eventually left. Then I totally remembered Sherry and felt bad but what can you do?

    But that’s not all. I went out a few times with these other two girls. Joy and Not Cousin Amy. I swear, all we did was kiss.

    Not a year later I heard a rumor that those two girls lost their virginity to two guys that armed robbed that Taco Bell!!

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  119. If real life was TV two guys named Sam and Dean would show up in a sweet car listening to Kansas and pose as FBI agents while poking around that Taco Bell.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  120. Oh, why couldn’t Lincoln just let this trash secede? Why? Why?

    nk (dbc370)

  121. We effectively did after 1877, how did that work out again?

    narciso (d1f714)

  122. Nope. Not the same thing. We would not have had trashy trash sending trashy trash to Washington to make laws for the rest of us if they had seceded. Maybe never giving them back statehood — that might have worked.

    nk (dbc370)

  123. When the union forces pulled out of the south, the entire south resumed a reasonable facsimile of the practice before the war.

    narciso (d1f714)

  124. Punk that, I would have told Gen. Sherman to use more kerosene and hoped that enrico fermi had been alive 80 years earlier. But alas i shutteth up because neither seed was on these shores yet.

    urbanleftbehind (a69ce6)

  125. Maybe, but remember in those days home phones sometimes had long cords as they did in our house for example that my sisters stretched to their limit to get the phone behind a closed door. There are better reasons to believe or doubt her than this.

    Yep.

    Cordless phones were a thing in the 1980’s, too. Like most consumer electronics, they were somewhat upscale when first available, and the average Alabama household probably didn’t have one, but still. I owned one when I was living on a student budget at that time, so they were hardly priced out of reach.

    Dave (445e97)

  126. Maybe never giving them back statehood — that might have worked.
    nk (dbc370) — 11/12/2017 @ 6:52 pm

    Mixed message Mr nk.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  127. @115. He’s gyno-centric if not gyno-adjacent.

    Or simply gyno-eccentric.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  128. The question is not whether she had a separate phone – the question is whether she had a separate phone number.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e756e)

  129. Alabama’s a lovely and storied and magical place

    they make this egg dish there called scrambled eggs where you break the yolks on purpose and then mix the eggs up as they cook

    they serve it with toast and sometimes a savory pork product (but sometimes that’s extra)

    i’m a go back someday

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  130. 58 – happyfeet
    Standing O.

    mg (60b0f7)

  131. The grand wizardy of mittens gave us one of the worst people born – Jonathon Gruber.

    mg (60b0f7)

  132. :)

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  133. And Fina Mccarthy the kevorkuan of coal. Mittens is more gullible than jack i The beanstock

    narciso (d1f714)

  134. Or simply gyno-eccentric.
    DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/12/2017 @ 7:09 pm

    You’re a NASA guy. All eccentric really means is his axis isn’t lined up with his Second Chakra.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  135. Phone Phreaks meant something different back in them days Mr Sammy.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  136. The question is not whether she had a separate phone – the question is whether she had a separate phone number.

    Nothing in the story requires her to have a separate phone number. These are the only two mentions of a phone:

    Alone with Corfman, Moore chatted with her and asked for her phone number, she says.

    […]

    After her mother went into the courtroom, Corfman says, Moore asked her where she went to school, what she liked to do and whether he could call her sometime. She remembers giving him her number and says he called not long after. She says she talked to Moore on her phone in her bedroom, and they made plans for him to pick her up at Alcott Road and Riley Street, around the corner from her house.

    No reason “her” phone number can’t be the family’s phone number.

    Dave (445e97)

  137. she could have a phone and still be lying about everything else

    hillary clinton has an effing phone you now

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  138. @133 The question is not whether she had a separate phone – the question is whether she had a separate phone number.

    Why, Sammy, why? In fact, so far as I can tell, neither of these fall into the question is category, based on the somewhat ambiguous/vague language of the original Post reporting.

    From Breibart (somewhat breathlessly):

    Citing Corfman, the Post reported:

    After her mother went into the courtroom, Corfman says, Moore asked her where she went to school, what she liked to do and whether he could call her sometime. She remembers giving him her number and says he called not long after. She says she talked to Moore on her phone in her bedroom, and they made plans for him to pick her up at Alcott Road and Riley Street, around the corner from her house. [bold in original]

    So far as I can tell, a fair-minded observer pretty much has to conclude that (at this stage at least), the “phone controversy” is wholly “fake news”.

    Q! (86710c)

  139. this old man, said hey hon
    let’s play knick-knack on the rug
    knick-knack paddywhack!
    paula’s got a phone
    this old man’s polling is down

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  140. Youngblood residence. How may I direct your call?

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  141. (joke military)

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  142. If someone truly gave a damn before this campaign, Corfman’s mom or this ADA Teresa/Theresa could have done as the female protagonist in La Seduzione (1973) at the roughly 1:20:55 to 1:21:05 mark of the linked video.

    urbanleftbehind (847a06)

  143. Spoken like a prosecutor I would never want to see in court.

    Oh, trust me, my defendants — all of them guilty — don’t want to see me in court.

    What evidence, if you don’t mind backing up your assertion?

    Um, all the statements in the WaPo article? Starting with the statements of the 14-year-old?

    (Are you going to start explaining evidence to me, Dr. Mike K? Shall I explain surgery to you?)

    We could debate the quality of the evidence, although I certainly have no interest in a debate or any kind of discussion with you.

    I was just gently poking at your infelicitously phrased claim:

    If it turns out there is evidence of misbehavior, he said he would resign.

    Might want to tighten that up. Because if he said that and meant it (which of course he did not), he’s resigning.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  144. A guy who went to West Point and Vietnam and Law School would know where to get a Lineman’s Handset.

    THE CALL WAS COMING FROM INSIDE THE HOUSE.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  145. There’s mines seems to have recovered memory like Larry sabato re George Allen, very convenient. It didn’t come up in 2000 or 2012 as Steve said because it didn’t happen. They don’t care how they paint the south, maybe insinuating corfman is a relative. Now his theology is deeply twisted re how judgment manifest himself but ‘abortion ken’ really doesnt care about that.

    narciso (d1f714)

  146. Samuel L Bronkowiz Presents

    Alabama High School Girls in Trouble

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  147. famous lawyer Mr. Hinderaker nails it i think

    Some say that Moore’s case is different, because he is a Republican, and Republicans are held to a higher standard. That is true as a statement of fact, but it is not a principle to which Republicans should stipulate. The Senate seat at issue is important. When Jeff Sessions ran for re-election in 2014, the Democrats didn’t even field a candidate against him. For the Democrats to steal that seat now, by recruiting a troubled woman to tell a 38-year-old story that is probably false, would be outrageous.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  148. Moore was a Democrat for a while so he’s pro rated.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  149. I really feel like Moore will end up on the right side of Herstory.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  150. Oh, trust me, my defendants — all of them guilty — don’t want to see me in court.

    Heh.

    Dave (445e97)

  151. Yes he was a yellow dog probably as long as rick Perry Hp was for dukakis back then, for that .matter so was Shelby.

    narciso (d1f714)

  152. If you’d told me back in 2014 that

    … Donald Trump would win the Presidency in 2016, I would have signed the commitment papers.

    “God protects fools, drunks and the United States of America.”

    Kevin M (752a26)

  153. yay God

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  154. We effectively did after 1877, how did that work out again?

    Even earlier. Cruikshank was 1875.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  155. What evidence, if you don’t mind backing up your assertion?

    Um, all the statements in the WaPo article? Starting with the statements of the 14-year-old?

    Patterico (115b1f) — 11/12/2017 @ 7:47 pm

    How about all the obvious statements that should be in the WaPo article, but aren’t. I’ve asked repeatedly here…

    http://patterico.com/2017/11/10/another-person-corroborates-roy-moores-accuser/

    …for someone who is so sure that Corfman is telling the truth such as yourself to address my suspicions that she isn’t to address them. So far, nothing. Per the WaPo:

    She says she thought of confronting Moore personally for years, and almost came forward publicly during his first campaign for state Supreme Court in 2000, but decided against it. Her two children were still in school then and she worried about how it would affect them. She also was concerned that her background — three divorces and a messy financial history — might undermine her credibility.

    So, she had reasons for remaining silent during Moore’s first campaign. And clearly if the reporter knew that Moore’s first campaign was in 2000, that can only mean the reporter knew full well that there was a second. And indeed there was a second, in 2012.

    Corfman’s kids were grown and fully adult. Her main concern no longer existed. So why didn’t she speak out in 2012? After all this “witness” says Corfman told him about a sexual encounter she had when she was young with Moore when sometime around 2009. I don’t have an online subscription to the WaPo and never will but I have it on good authority (kishnevi) that either the reporter didn’t ask or she did and Corfman’s answer was edited it out.

    The WaPo article studiously avoids mentioning Corfman’s reasons, if any, for remaining silent in 2012. Apparently they didn’t want to know the answer. Or they knew the answer, didn’t like it, and decided it was best to edit it out of the story because it undercut Corfman’s credibility. That bothers me. Why doesn’t it bother you? It should bother anybody who is fair minded.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  156. Steve, actually it would not even occur to most people to ask. Her kids were grown up but her credibility problems remained…and still remain.
    You fixate on details even more than I do. Are you sure you’re not an aspie like me? :):)

    kishnevi (1e395f)

  157. Moore was a Democrat for a while so he’s pro rated
    He was a Democrat until 1993 or thereabouts. So this is really a Democratic sex scandal, not a GOP sex scandal.

    kishnevi (1e395f)

  158. Full disclosure; I initially misread the quote as if it said “still in high school.” I just got over the flu and my eyes are a bit blurry. But even so, it would be odd to say one’s children were “still in school” in 2000 if you meant “my youngest had just started kindergarten.” Even if her youngest was in elementary school that would have to mean her two children had attained the age of eighteen by 2012. In other words, adults.

    I can only take it that no one can provide me with a good answer because there is no plausible explanation for why she waited for five years to speak out now.

    1. She didn’t speak out in 2000 even though she really, really wanted to for the sake of her children.
    2. She told her boyfriend in 2009.
    3. Crickets chirped so loudly in 2012 that the WaPo decided it was best not to say anything about it.
    4. I’m now supposed to believe she’s a brave truth teller in 2017,

    Sorry, not buying it. She needs to explain the hole in her story’s time line for me to find her credible.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  159. sorry, institute.

    I hope The Superfriends are keeping an eye on things.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  160. He was a Democrat until 1993 or thereabouts. So this is really a Democratic sex scandal, not a GOP sex scandal.
    kishnevi (1e395f) — 11/12/2017 @ 8:40 pm

    He put on his big boy pants and became a Republican.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  161. it must be quite difficult to make ends meet on one’s hourly wages at the payday loan outlet

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  162. Well Steve57 sir, her work history shows that her skills aren’t very marketable but maybe, just maybe, she got a golden ticket. Or a fatal diagnosis.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  163. Was there sex involved? No?
    Your witness…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  164. it must be quite difficult to make ends meet on one’s hourly wages at the payday loan outlet
    happyfeet (28a91b) — 11/12/2017 @ 8:49 pm

    Free pens are a part of her compensation package.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  165. Steve, the answer should be obvious: she didn’t thimk it was worth the mudslinging she would receive. The question is not why she didn’t talk in 2012, the question is what did the Post do to get her to talk now. You’re making the same category error as others are making: the fact that the Post published this story for political purposes does not mean the story is false.

    kishnevi (1e395f)

  166. Has anyone looked up her birth certificate?

    Has anyone looked up when her mom filed divorce?

    Has anyone looked up when mom was granted said divorce?

    What is the window between those two dates?

    Does her lawyer remember a creepy babysitter?

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  167. Steve, actually it would not even occur to most people to ask. Her kids were grown up but her credibility problems remained…and still remain.

    kishnevi (1e395f) — 11/12/2017 @ 8:37 pm

    This is simply not true. Reporters ask these obvious follow-up questions all the time. Except of course if they’re conducting a soft-ball interview to make a non-credible individual artificially look credible.

    And how do you know her credibility problems remained in 2012, and still remain in 2017? Nobody bothered to ask. Are you saying she didn’t get her financial act together by 2012, and still hasn’t? How do you come by this knowledge? There’s nothing she can do about the divorces, of course, but it would do wonders for her credibility if she could point out that she’s been financially responsible for the past twenty years or so.

    This isn’t a detail. If Moore it wasn’t important enough to go public to stop Moore in 2012 then I’m going to need to know why all of a sudden it’s vitally important to go public, baggage and all, in 2017, And I need to hear it from her. Because if this were a trial and I was on a jury, and she was a witness, there’s no way I could possibly believe her unless she could explain the massive gap in this chain of facts. I could only conclude there’s something she still has to hide.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  168. Why wasn’t she in school? Because it was summertime? Nobody cared if a kid was sitting around in a car back then as long as the window was cracked.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  169. I can only take it that no one can provide me with a good answer because there is no plausible explanation for why she waited for five years to speak out now.

    You really have no idea what these women face, do you?

    In part from people like the commenters here.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  170. If we can calculate solar eclipses thousands of years in either direction maybe we could do a little checking closer to home.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  171. Sorry, kishnevi, none of the excuses you’re making for both the WaPo and Corfman are at all believable.

    “Let’s talk about 2000 and 2017,” the WaPo says, “but only a jerk would want to hear about 2012 because you, dear reader, just don’t need to know about it.”

    Really? That’s your position on this?

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  172. I wonder if these allegations have caused Moore to reconsider his belief that Obama isn’t a citizen, or that he’s a secret muslim.

    Davethulhu (6a4a84)

  173. What did the then Buffett post say about born again Christians in 1993,

    narciso (d1f714)

  174. this whole thing stinks like stinky cheese

    “pee-yew,” said the monkey in the tree to the journeyman passing below, “What’s that ungodly stench?”

    “ugh, good monkey,” replied the journeyman, an accomplished electrician. “It’s this honey boo boo story down Alabama way.”

    “Well it’s just godawful is what it is,” said the monkey. “I won’t ask the particulars. Thank you for your time.”

    “Good day, monkey.”

    “Good day, friend.”

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  175. Sorry, kishnevi, none of the excuses you’re making for both the WaPo and Corfman are at all believable.
    I am making no excuses for WaPo. I am giving the most likely reason why she didn’t talk in 2012. The credibility problems she had in the first campaign were actually greater, and she had no real motive to undergo the Internet mudfest. That should be obvious to anyone.

    The pity is that you are defending a man who took the same oath to defend the Constitution that you took when you entered the military and based his political career on consistently violating that oath.

    kishnevi (1e395f)

  176. Yet, Pat, I’m supposed to believe she was sorely tempted to be brave and stop Moore seventeen years ago. But mostly out of concern for her children she didn’t speak up. And she did confide in her boyfriend Mike Ortiz in 2009, Now she’s speaking up publicly, even though she has the same concerns now that she did in 2012.

    And I’m the bad guy, you tell me, because I need to know what changed in the past five years before I can find her story credible.

    How does that work? I don’t respond well to, “You’ll accept only the information we’re willing to give you and you’re going to like it.” If I’m supposed to believe her boyfriend from 2009 as a corroborating witness then maybe someone could ask him what she told him her reasons were for remaining silent in 2012. Or didn’t it occur to him to ask her? Which I would also find extremely odd, and would only further increase my suspicions. Maybe if we brought him into the equation it wouldn’t be the bad man beating up on the poor little woman.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  177. i remember back in the day

    when people would make outlandish allegations about a senate candidate

    they’d go on the television, they would, and speak to what we called a journalist – that’s what we called them back then – journalists

    this was a person that would ask them questions about their story, pressing them on this or that point of contention

    seems quaint now

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  178. This new living constotution where gay marriage is legitimate, abortion is a,sacrament and the govt can force you to buy a product. That one,

    narciso (d1f714)

  179. I am making no excuses for WaPo. I am giving the most likely reason why she didn’t talk in 2012. The credibility problems she had in the first campaign were actually greater, and she had no real motive to undergo the Internet mudfest. That should be obvious to anyone.

    No, it’s not obvious. How do you come by this secret knowledge that her credibility problems were greater during Moore’s second campaign than in the first? Then you said that her credibility problems still remain. So why does she want to go through the same internet mudfest now that she wanted to avoid five years ago? I tend not to believe in Gnosticism. Can you provide a link? Perhaps my questions would be answered.

    The pity is that you are defending a man who took the same oath to defend the Constitution that you took when you entered the military and based his political career on consistently violating that oath.

    kishnevi (1e395f) — 11/12/2017 @ 9:17 pm

    I’m not defending anybody. Why would I defend Moore? The people of Alabama voted him to the state supreme court twice and it appears they’ll vote for him as their Senator. It’s entirely up to them who they want as their Senator. I did find it somewhat impressive when a local network affiliate conducted man-on-the-street interviews and they couldn’t find a single person who believed the allegations in the WaPo piece. Maybe they know something the rest of us who live out of state couldn’t possibly know. Therefore I need further information before I can make some sort of determination about who is the more credible. If I’m going to be repeatedly told that I don’t deserve answers to perfectly reasonable questions or I must be a fan of child molesters then I have to conclude my original instincts have been right all along. This is nothing more than a referendum on whether or not you like Trump, which if you’re a fair minded person has nothing at all to do with who is telling the truth here.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  180. I hope the prosecutions of the Pervywood molesters begin soon. Time to clean up your own backyard, SoCal!!!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  181. 148. People use the word evidence as if it meant proof = conclusive evidence (but then they turn around and use evidence as if it meant evidence after all.)

    When someone wants to say there’s no proof, they say there’s no evidence; and then they use the “no evidence” claim to mean there’s no indication whatsover.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e756e)

  182. I would think the undercover tape (that new york magazine sat on for a year) how viablecsre the other charges.

    narciso (d1f714)

  183. perhaps the insight to be gleaned here Mr. 57 isn’t into the character of Mr. Moore

    perhaps the insight to be gleaned here’s into the character of #nevertrump

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  184. Is a person going to be treated any different reporting a potential crime versus reporting the same thing to the press decades later as an adult?

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  185. if they wait decades later they’ll be accorded the dignity befitting someone who’s useful to #nevertrump Mr. puller

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  186. I the McMartins feel pretty bad too.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  187. amateur satanist pikers

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  188. @133 The question is not whether she had a separate phone – the question is whether she had a separate phone number.

    143. Q! (86710c) — 11/12/2017 @ 7:28 pm

    Why, Sammy, why? In fact, so far as I can tell, neither of these fall into the question is category, based on the somewhat ambiguous/vague language of the original Post reporting.

    It’s a question because the question is if that is, or could be, true, and because we’re discussing what the situation is.

    Breitbart apparently bolded one thing, but they bolded the wrong thing: I will bold two;

    After her mother went into the courtroom, Corfman says, Moore asked her where she went to school, what she liked to do and whether he could call her sometime. She remembers giving him her number and says he called not long after. She says she talked to Moore on her phone in her bedroom, and they made plans for him to pick her up at Alcott Road and Riley Street, around the corner from her house.

    The question is, as I said, not whether she had a separate phone – the question is whether she had a separate phone number.

    She gave him, says the Washington Post, her telephone number, which implies it is separate number, although it might not be.

    If this was NOT a separate number, it presents problems for her story – or at least her story needs a few additional details.

    And if this was a separate number, that presents other kinds of problems, because this would be something exceedingly unlikely for her to have. She couldn’t really have had a separate number, and not only that, we could even check it, because if she did, it almost certainly was not unlisted! It is a question, therefore, that can probably be answered.

    Nor would she know to use such tricks as giving a wrong name or address, or even want to.

    So the first problem is, it is not really her number, and the second problem is, how does he make sure she is the only one who can pick up the phone.

    And if she is home alone, why does she need to use the extension in her bedroom, which she probably didn’t have either. OK, let’s say she used a Princess phone and always answered the phone in her bedroom – the problem with that is, she wouldn’t have had that. And besides the whole tenor of the Washington Post article is that she had her own separate phone number, which you could probably 98% prove that she didn’t.

    Notice by the way, this element of the story is made retractable. It is not that she gave him her number, but she remembers doing that.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e756e)

  189. 141. Dave (445e97) — 11/12/2017 @ 7:24 pm

    No reason “her” phone number can’t be the family’s phone number.

    Then why does she answer it in the bedroom?

    More important, it’s a little bit dangerous to just give it out, and why doesn’t the story say she gave him her home phone number or some other description that makes clear it’s not hers only??

    If it is the family number, (or her mother’s phone number actually, because I don’t know if there’s anybody else living there besides Leigh and her mother) there’s now an important bit left out of the story.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e756e)

  190. Steve57 @161. You’re losing sight of another thing. Corfman didn’t “come forward” in 2017, either. At one point, the WaPo use misleading language maybe to imply that she did, but they also say none of the women came forward, but rather, a Washington Post reporter, who was in Alabama researching something else (probably charity – they wrote an article he took more than a third in salary – somehow found out something else.

    He or she was tipped off in other words. But how could that have hapepned?

    Detective Columbo has other questions.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e756e)

  191. And Roy Moore was campaigning also in 1982 and 1986.

    Sammy Finkelman (8e756e)

  192. so why now?

    it’s vexing

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  193. @139. The Huntsville folks know pitching his roll with lots of yaw dropping has him tumbling toward gimbal lock.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  194. Mr Finkelman wrote:

    No reason “her” phone number can’t be the family’s phone number.

    Then why does she answer it in the bedroom?

    Maybe she was in the bedroom when the phone rang.

    The practical Dana (8110d1)

  195. The newspaper didn’t contact her in 2012, Steve. You think you’re asking some kind of silver bullet question? kishnevi has already answered your question. If the newspaper hadn’t tracked her down, the available evidence indicates that she never would have come forward at all. Make of that what you will.

    Leviticus (9b9f44)

  196. the newspaper must have provided some kind of inducement then

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  197. I do not see the phone number issue as being significant. If we assume that her story is true — and I do not so assume that — and Mr Moore did indeed call for nefarious purposes, he could have simply said, “Sorry, wrong number” if the mother had answered the phone.

    If the daughter was in her room, and answered the phone there, a typical daughter from that time would simply have yelled, “I’ve got it” when she answered, and unsuspecting mother would (probably) not have picked up the main line. If mom had answered second, the daughter would have heard her pick up the phone.

    Caller ID was introduced for landline phones during the late 1980s, after this alleged incident, so had Mr Moore needed to say, “Oh, excuse me, I must have a wrong number,” it wouldn’t have been traceable by the mother.

    The very practical Dana (8110d1)

  198. payday loan queen leigh corfman’s story is WAY different than what the other honey boo boos say

    they all seemed to have gone on dates like down to the malt shop or whatever

    leigh’s story is she went straight to his living room rug quick quick quick like a bunny

    but the other honey boo boos all describe Roy Moore behaving like a perfect gentleman

    this is so weird

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  199. The mother’s recollection about the family phones may be more reliable than the daughter’s, simply because she was the adult. But it might not be. Teenage girls in that era really, really cared about having a phone extension of their own. It’s the kind of thing they would remember and parents might not.

    DRJ (15874d)

  200. she was obviously not responsible enough to be trusted with her own phone extension

    perhaps that’s only clear in hindsight though

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  201. True, that. But not many 14 year olds, or their mothers, would have known how to handle that situation back then. It was a different time.

    DRJ (15874d)

  202. My dad would have kicked a piece of furniture and mom would have said, in a voice rich with disappointment, oh honey, this is not how we do.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  203. from Althouse on Dating Teenagers:

    commenter I Have Misplaced My Pants said…

    exiledonmainstreet said…
    A 28 year old Vietnam vet was interested in me when I was 17. I did not go out with him, but I admit I was flattered at the time by the attention. Looking back on it with middle-aged eyes, it seems creepy, but that’s not how it seemed to me at the time. His interest seemed proof of my maturity. This older man, who actually fought in a war, likes me, so I’m not just some silly kid. In retrospect, I think it was the boobs and the halter tops that did it.

    The summer I was 17, I dated a 27 year old guy who had just gotten out of the Navy; he had been an officer, too. Same as you, at the time I was flattered by the attention from this older, handsome, accomplished guy. That totally meant I was All Grown Up and clearly mature and clever and entertaining, right? Bless my little heart. Looking back, I remember how energetic and eager to please I was, and think about how much selfish fun it must have been for that guy to introduce that kid to some of the things he introduced me to. He was gone at the end of the summer, of course, and it’s a minor-to-moderate miracle I didn’t wind up pregnant or with an STD.

    Also that summer (ah, 17….), I befriended my now-husband, who was also 27, but being a fine man and a gentleman he did nothing other than kiss me, even though he absolutely wanted more and I absolutely would have gone along with it (because again, ooh look at how cool I am, all these adult guys want to be with me–teenagers are so stupid). Which brings me to,

    Women’s looks and attractiveness to men peak at 36 according to studies.

    My husband met and wanted me when I was 17, but married me at 35, and says all the time how while the wait sucked, it was worth it because I’m just as sexy as I was then, but now I have caught up to him in wisdom and maturity and he can value me as his best friend, closest advisor and life partner as well. Isn’t that sweet? :)

    Dating jailbait is a different matter altogether, of course.

    crazy (d99a88)

  204. Adults used to offer to help children then and it didn’t raise red flags. There were bad people then, too, of course, but messing with children was not something parents expected.

    DRJ (15874d)

  205. The interesting question isn’t any teenagers want to date adults, but why adults want to date teenagers. Insecurity and control issues is my guess.

    DRJ (15874d)

  206. The interesting question isn’t why teenagers want to date adults, but why adults want to date teenagers. Insecurity and control issues is my guess.

    DRJ (15874d)

  207. Woman Says George H.W. Bush Groped Her When She Was 16: ‘I Was a Child’

    ugh that family

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  208. DRJ wrote:

    The interesting question isn’t why teenagers want to date adults, but why adults want to date teenagers. Insecurity and control issues is my guess.

    Generalize a bit there? When I met my wife-to-be, she had just turned 19, and I was four months shy of my 26th birthday. First date on January 20, 1979, and we married on May 19th.

    The Dana who has been married for 38 years, 5 months and 25 days (8110d1)

  209. 14 is waaaay different than 19. Or 17, for that matter.

    Leviticus (ff0564)

  210. I did find it somewhat impressive when a local network affiliate conducted man-on-the-street interviews and they couldn’t find a single person who believed the allegations in the WaPo piece.

    Could not find anyone? Or did they simply exercise the same selectivity as the WaPo and only show the answers they wanted people to hear?

    If they truly could not find anyone it merely shows how distrusted the MSM is…

    How do you come by this secret knowledge that her credibility problems were greater during Moore’s second campaign than in the first?

    It’s near the end of the original WaPo article. Apparently you missed this detail.

    In 2005, Corfman paid a fine for driving a boat without lights. In 2010, she was working at a convenience store when she was charged with a misdemeanor for selling beer to a minor. The charge was dismissed, court records show.

    Hence the increased problem with credibility.

    If I’m going to be repeatedly told that I don’t deserve answers to perfectly reasonable questions

    I in fact gave the perfectly reasonable answers to your questions….Not my fault if you refuse to think they are reasonable.

    kishnevi (bb03e6)

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