Patterico's Pontifications

11/5/2017

Oh No — Shooting at Texas Church, Multiple Deaths, Story Developing

Filed under: General — JVW @ 12:10 pm



[guest post by JVW]

Details are coming in. A shooter has attacked the First Baptist Church of Sutherland Springs, near San Antonio. The BBC is reporting at least 27 deaths on its Facebook page. Fox News says that the shooter is dead.

More to come. What a horrible thing to happen at a house of worship on the Lord’s Day.

– JVW

374 Responses to “Oh No — Shooting at Texas Church, Multiple Deaths, Story Developing”

  1. Please help with updated reports as you learn about them. Please avoid using questionable sources, unless you qualify it by pointing out that it is a questionable source.

    JVW (42615e)

  2. The shooting was at about 11:30 am Central Time, thirty minutes into the 11:00 am services. Other victims have been transported to regional hospitals. Neither CNN nor Fox is repeating the BBC’s estimate of fatalities yet.

    JVW (42615e)

  3. The shooter fled the scene using an automobile and was pursued for approximately 8 miles before the chase came to an end. The shooter has not been identified and was reported dead.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  4. Yes, vile assholes like Chelsea Handler are already taking to Twitter to blame Republicans. Let’s not play that game until we have a better sense of exactly what has happened here.

    JVW (42615e)

  5. At least 27 people were reported to have been killed, as well as 24 injured.

    too early to take numbers at face value

    but other reports say the average attendance at a service there is 50, so that paints and ungodly horrific picture

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  6. *an* ungodly horrific picture i mean

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  7. vile assholes like Chelsea Handler are already taking to Twitter to blame Republicans

    “Curb Your Enthusiasm” star Larry David is in hot water with “Saturday Night Live” viewers after making a joke about the Texas church shooting that’s being slammed as insensitive.

    “I’ve always been obsessed with women, and I’ve often wondered if I’d gone to church in Texas when that guy shot the entire congregation, would I be checking women out in the church? I think I would,” he said in his monologue.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  8. Let’s not play that game until we have a better sense of exactly what has happened here.

    Let’s not play at all. Reaching crisis levels, not on firearms but mental health. Dysfunctional humans are rising per capita imo. The combo of daily stresses and pharmaceuticals is creating a nation of Walkers who will feed on your carcass.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  9. If you click on the Sutherland Springs trending page on Twitter, you will get a full barrage of demands for gun control. I think I am going to take a 48-hour hiatus from that app until all of the righteous anger dies down.

    JVW (42615e)

  10. “Curb Your Enthusiasm” star Larry David is in hot water with “Saturday Night Live” viewers after making a joke about the Texas church shooting that’s being slammed as insensitive.

    “I’ve always been obsessed with women, and I’ve often wondered if I’d gone to church in Texas when that guy shot the entire congregation, would I be checking women out in the church? I think I would,” he said in his monologue.

    Wait, I don’t get this. The shooting happened this morning; how could it have been referred to on SNL last night? Was he speaking of something else?

    JVW (42615e)

  11. i helpfully updated his concentration camp joke for the news cycle Mr. JVW

    i’m a giver

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  12. JVW, Happyfeet edited the story. Larry David was making a joke about the holocaust in the unedited version. Not worth the time to talk about.

    What is worth our time is to consider that tiny town losing something like one in twenty of its citizens, that church something like half. Such a concentration of evil.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  13. i helpfully updated his concentration camp joke for the news cycle Mr. JVW

    Oh yeah, I think I vaguely remember hearing something about that joke.

    You are a little too culturally hip for me happyfeet; I don’t watch Curb Your Enthusiasm or SNL, and the only time I watched Seinfeld was when I dated a girl who absolutely loved that show. It’s not surprising that it didn’t work out between us.

    JVW (42615e)

  14. What is worth our time is to consider that tiny town losing something like one in twenty of its citizens, that church something like half. Such a concentration of evil.

    Yeah, with such a small church in a small town it’s hard to believe that it was chosen randomly.

    JVW (42615e)

  15. David joked about seducing women in a concentration camp in the Holocaust. Could that have been her analogy using today’s shooting instead of the Holocaust?

    DRJ (15874d)

  16. i just saw it on drudge this morning Mr. jvw

    and your chelsea handler comment prompted me to reflect on our cultural betters, perhaps inappropriately

    but that was the honest stream of consciousness what happened here at casa pikachu

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  17. oops Mr. *JVW* i mean

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  18. Business as usual in the Land of the Free. Move along, move along . . . nothing to see here . . . no rubber-necking, please, and nothing to be done . . . a terrible tragedy, of course, but nothing to change your socks about . . .

    Q! (86710c)

  19. Never mind. I guess that’s cutting edge humor now, emphasis on cutting.

    DRJ (15874d)

  20. nothing to see here

    especially not any stories about the violent assault on Senator Paul

    this will bury those nicely

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  21. It will change things, Q. I wager many Texas churches will have armed people protecting every service. Think of it as a version of Let’s Roll.

    DRJ (15874d)

  22. The location reminds me of the shooting at the beauty parlor in Seal Beach, CA a few years back, in terms of it being a weird place for that sort of thing to happen. It turns out that it was some whackjob jilted ex-husband who was exacting revenge upon his beautician ex-wife and ended up killing a lot of people alongside of her, so I wonder if the same sort of thing will be the case here.

    JVW (42615e)

  23. What a jackalope, Larry David too, now its just a coincidence its the anniversary of ft. Hood, but why would you profane a church, this is what its about.

    Muqrin wee the son of the former crown prince under abdallah and for spy chief after prince turki

    narciso (d1f714)

  24. now its just a coincidence its the anniversary of ft. Hood

    Well, that’s an intriguing tidbit.

    JVW (42615e)

  25. I agree, JVW. in a small town and church like this, it probably is a family killing.

    DRJ (15874d)

  26. …..a terrible tragedy, of course, but nothing to change your socks about . . .”

    Well, I guess you could advocate disarming law-abiding citizens. The criminals will of course line up to comply also, leaving only the military and targets of the NFL kneelers to have firepower.

    harkin (b32ce9)

  27. Is that the Chelsea Handler that had 50Cent as a boyfriend?
    The guy who has a shooting range under his house? Hmmm.
    Some of his entourage carry guns but don’t own them, so I suppose that is a fine distinction.
    When she was “dating” 50Cent she had to see guns guns guns felons with guns and not a Republican or Trump supporter in the bunch but not a peep.

    steveg (e8c34d)

  28. This is CNN’s current story
    https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/11/05/us/texas-church-shooting/index.html
    Only says there were multiple victims and quotes a witness who heard “about 20″ shots being fired. She was across the street. If her estimate was accurate (no way to know at this point), the BBC figures are much too high.

    I know there are a few Texans here: I hope none of you are touched personally.

    kishnevi (050eae)

  29. Reported that on a typical Sunday, 50 people attend the church.

    Dana (023079)

  30. Looking through July 2015 posts finds no mention of the nine dead in a black church thanks to nutjob Dylan Roof.
    http://patterico.com/2015/07/page/10/

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  31. I’m glad I never paid attention to Larry David.

    kishnevi (050eae)

  32. @22 I wager many Texas churches will have armed people protecting every service

    As well they should. More guns seems pretty clearly to be the answer to run-amock mass shootings. In America at least. An “exceptional” nation, and idiosyncratic to a fault. Indeed, I expect that Texas is the perfect place for the legislature to impose a “mandatory carry” rule. In the interest of public safety and as an experiment – a sort of pilot program which — after, say, 5 years –should yield significant data (for Texas and the Nation as a whole) as to whether a more guns approach really has “legs”. Such a regional “infrastructure” policy will boost manufacture and the economy as a whole, as well as potentially having many other felicitous consequences. “Buy American” provisions should of course be built in, but I’m sure that leaving the many details to the Texas Legislature will provide profit and safety aplenty . . .

    Q! (86710c)

  33. in a small town and church like this, it probably is a family killing.

    probably but this is juxtaposed with vegas for me

    maybe the Dylan Roof one would be more appropriate

    but still to me this comes right after Vegas

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  34. Isn’t Chelsea Handler the comedian that has stepped down from the show biz world so she can focus her full attention on politics? If so, then I guess instead of working on an agenda to bridge the political divide in our nation, she’s gonna be working hard to drive an even bigger wedge through it.

    Dana (023079)

  35. Chelsea Handler has what?

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  36. When she was “dating” 50Cent she had to see guns guns guns felons with guns and not a Republican or Trump supporter in the bunch but not a peep

    Actually, believe it or not, 50 Cent is allegedly a Republican.

    JVW (42615e)

  37. Benny boy, it helps to look in the correct month….
    http://patterico.com/2015/06/18/the-shooting-in-a-south-carolina-church/

    kishnevi (050eae)

  38. Chelsea Handler‏ Verified account @chelseahandler 2h2 hours ago

    Innocent people go to church on Sunday to honor their God, and while doing so, get shot in killed. What country? America. Why? Republicans.

    5,498 replies 2,286 retweets 8,276 likes

    wow she’s pimping hard for the Democrats and so quickly

    she effectively exploits the still-warm corpses by pointing out

    #1 the murdered people were innocent

    #2 they that this happened in a church where God is worshiped: “go to church on Sunday to honor their God”

    #3 Chelsea explains that this is because Republicans

    that’s easier than ordering a burrito at Chipotle!

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  39. oops they that this happened in a church where God is worshiped

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  40. Shootings at a site of worship near San Antonio? What is this– 1836?? No, just another tragic day of gun play in the good ol’ USA. How many times do you have to get hit over the head to know it hurts… all the prayers humanly possible to the innocent victims, their families, friends– and every resident in that once peaceful little Texas town– now changed forever.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  41. The church’s pastor, Frank Pomeroy, is apparently ok, but he reports to ABC News that his 14-year-old daughter is among the dead. Absolutely heartbreaking.

    JVW (42615e)

  42. the Samir Al-Hajeed hoax from vegas is already being recycled

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  43. @22. I wager many Texas churches will have armed people protecting every service…

    … And Putin smiled.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  44. much like Chelsea Handler, Dick Durbin’s acting like a kid what got blood play-doh for christmas

    Senator Dick Durbin

    @SenatorDurbin

    The shooter turned his gun on people — kids — in a place of worship. America is in the grips of a gun violence crisis. Congress must act. https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/927270548740157440

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  45. I’m glad I never paid attention to Larry David.

    I stopped listening to him when he equated Dubya’s National Guard service of flying F-102s to the weekend beer runs he made for his colonel, which btw was the only effective joke I ever heard him utter.

    harkin (b32ce9)

  46. I live in West Texas, hundreds of miles from this shooting, and even though I’ve lived in Texas most of my life I had never even heard of Sutherland Springs before today. But I know small town Texas. Churches are the social centers of little towns like this, so my guess is this wasn’t about church as much as the people at the church.

    This is speculation but reports say the shooter was a lone male. My guess is this was a family problem where the husband targeted his wife, children, her extended family and friends — all of whom attended this church so he targeted all of them.

    DRJ (15874d)

  47. My guess is this was a family problem where the husband targeted his wife, children, her extended family and friends — all of whom attended this church so he targeted all of them.

    this makes sense but it seems like he had a getaway plan

    getaway plan + camos

    this is what gives me pause

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  48. Thanks kish. Me so culpa.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  49. So far, the bloodthirsty cockroach remains unidentified, and you know what that usually means. Nor have any reports surfaced indicating a swarthy young man yelling Allahu Akbar was seen running from the church.

    ropelight (e67740)

  50. The San Antonio Express News reports 28 killed with 8 more taken to Brooke Army Hospital, probably the more serious injuries. The rest are at area hospitals. The closet hospital seems to be in Floresville, which is 13 miles away. That’s a long way if you need emergency help, and it’s unlikely the hospital sees multiple serious trauma cases.

    DRJ (15874d)

  51. So far, the bloodthirsty cockroach remains unidentified, and you know what that usually means

    the FBI is on the case?

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  52. Thoughts and prayers for the people of Sutherland Springs, Texas.

    Colonel Haiku (951ecf)

  53. It’s almost always hunting season for something in Texas. People wear camo all the time, even people who don’t hunt and especially in rural areas.

    DRJ (15874d)

  54. my jacket for this part of the year’s a light camo jacket i got from the walmart in minnesoter

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  55. Again, I don’t know what happened here, but my first thought was a family annihilator because the members of small churches in small towns are often close friends and families.

    DRJ (15874d)

  56. sleazy dem rep Vicente González couldn’t get on the tv fast enough; falls for 4chan hoax

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  57. However, for a little town, this was a big church. With 360 people in the town and over 50 members at this church, that’s 15% of the town. It may have been the biggest church in town.

    DRJ (15874d)

  58. 10. JVW (42615e) — 11/5/2017 @ 12:36 pm

    Wait, I don’t get this. The shooting happened this morning; how could it have been referred to on SNL last night? Was he speaking of something else?

    Yes. Nazi slave labor camps.

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73)

  59. There is some kind of press conference scheduled shortly. They don’t have the names of the people killed, but the people in the town may find out soon.

    One woman decided to clean the church kitchen instead of attending services and so escaped the whole thing.

    There are tweets from Texas Governor Greg Abbott, Vice President Mike Pence and President Donald Trump (who said he was monitoring the situation from Japan, and did not seem to jump to any conclusions here.)

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73)

  60. Now the San Antonio paper has changed the death toll to 25. There are also reports that the shooter has been identified and is from New Braunfels, with in-laws from Sutherland Springs. It’s still early but, if so, I think New Braunfels was the home of the church bus hit by a texting driver who killed more than a dozen senior church members. Lots of sadness there, too.

    DRJ (15874d)

  61. President Trump’s tweet was very good. So was Abbott’s, Cruz’s and several others.

    DRJ (15874d)

  62. https://www.thedailybeast.com/devin-patrick-kelley-idd-as-sutherland-springs-church-killer

    Devin Patrick Kelley has been identified as the gunman who killed at least 24 people at a church in Texas, a U.S. official tells The Daily Beast. Kelley, 26, was a resident of New Braunfels, a suburb of San Antonio, according to public records. Kelley posed a photo of an assault rifle to Facebook on October 29 with the caption: “She’s a bad bitch.”

    Kelley was married and Kelley’s mother-in-law listed a P.O. box in Sutherland Springs as a mailing address. San Antonio police reportedly raided Kelley’s home on Sunday evening. A LinkedIn account appearing to belong to Kelley describes him as serving in the U.S. Air Force from his 2009 high-school graduation until 2013, after which he briefly taught at a summer Bible school.

    Davethulhu (6a4a84)

  63. Kelley was reporetedly given a dishonorable discharge and court martialed in May 2014, according to CBS.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  64. second that, Col.

    mg (31009b)

  65. Must have failed his PT test.

    Davethulhu (6a4a84)

  66. pic

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  67. Someone’s not praying hard enough.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  68. Daily Beast. Pah! Let’s see if it turns out to be a general or other than honorable discharge.

    nk (dbc370)

  69. From the press conference: A local resident got his gun and engaged the shooter as he exited the church. The resident chased the suspect, who dropped his rifle, and authoritied aren’t sure if the suspect died from a self-inflicted wound or from being shot by the local resident.

    DRJ (15874d)

  70. 26 dead, not including the shooter.

    DRJ (15874d)

  71. No names will be given until the families have been notified.

    DRJ (15874d)

  72. 23 died in the church, 2 died outside the church, 1 died at the hospital and there may be more.

    A 6 year old boy was shot 4 times and is in surgery. Other family members including his siblings were also shot.

    DRJ (15874d)

  73. The shooter was wearing all black tactical gear and a bulletproof vest.

    DRJ (15874d)

  74. Prayer may be the only safe space for some. It must test their faith to see innocents not protected. It certainly is pyrrhic to look toward heaven for respite.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  75. Someone’s not praying hard enough.
    Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 11/5/2017 @ 3:38 pm

    Yeaah.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  76. Zerohedge is being pretty level headed, stick to the facts…

    kishnevi (8d3389)

  77. Ben, real prayer is not talking to God. Real prayer is shutting up and listening to whatever God wants to tell you. Even when He seems to want to tell you nothing.

    kishnevi (8d3389)

  78. I agree kish. Prayer is private…not meant for public display.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  79. #69, h’feet, thanks for the pic. Clearly, White Trash, protein deficient, Hillary supporter, with an IQ somewhere between a screwdriver and a pencil sharpener.

    Likely considers himself a victim, and blames God/Christians for failing to recognize his greatness and worship at his feet.

    ropelight (e67740)

  80. It seems that the shooter was legally barred from owning firearms by his dishonorable discharge.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  81. Ben, you obviously have no idea of what I am talking about.

    Ropelight, I am glad your detective skills are so great that you can tell that off one photo. You need to offer your services to the FBI.

    kishnevi (8d3389)

  82. A Southern Baptist named Devin Kelly is hard to believe in and of itself.

    nk (dbc370)

  83. Bun burn is a sick little twist, kishnevi.

    nk (dbc370)

  84. That’s what I have been trying to tell you, but do they listen to zathras.

    Christians are promised eternal life but not in the world or time.

    narciso (d1f714)

  85. @80. Spasiba, comrade: “Zero Hedge’s content has been classified as “alt-right”, anti-establishment, conspiratorial, and economically pessimistic and has been criticized for presenting extreme and sometimes pro-Russian views.” – source, wikipedia

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  86. Them Russians are everywhere:

    David Sirota
    @DavidSirota

    “Hillary Clinton’s campaign is now calling Donna Brazile a Putin stooge. This is actually happening”.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/davidsirota/status/927028822456668160

    harkin (b32ce9)

  87. It links various pieces of info, and then forms an opinion, burn it down.

    narciso (d1f714)

  88. Kishnevi

    Isn’t it your responsibility to make such things clear? I mean that’s my limited understanding, structurally.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  89. I read Zerohedge. I read Wapo. I see no reason not to inform myself as to the opposition’s trends.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  90. Ben, I was as clear as could be: that you don’t understand says a lot about you.

    kishnevi (8d3389)

  91. You speak in parables?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  92. 86, that’s a plausible choice of names for anybody nowadays. Latent Patricio?

    urbanleftbehind (96a63d)

  93. I read Zerohedge. I read Wapo.

    I read Wapo. I think they don’t like Trump. Zerohedge is gotten as silly as Gateway Pundit. Try Instapundit instead.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  94. 97,yes, albeit minus the Kurt Spincter

    urbanleftbehind (96a63d)

  95. It’s odd that kish doesn’t take the opportunity to declare his faith by ministering to the Nations. Apparently it’s he who lacks understanding

    Matthew 25 14-30

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  96. This appears to have NOT been racially motivated. White-on-white. I’m gonna bet the shooter had relatives in the church at the time.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  97. Kevin..

    The point is to read everything

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  98. 97,yes, albeit minus the Kurt Spincter

    And the comments which have turned toxic.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  99. The point is to read everything

    Weekly World News? Infowars? Daily Worker?

    Kevin M (752a26)

  100. You know when I talk to God I know he’ll understand
    He say stick by me and I’ll be your God in hand
    But don’t ask me what he thinks of you
    I might not give the answer that you want me to

    Oh, well, beenburned.

    Colonel Haiku (951ecf)

  101. I read vanity fair for the humor.

    narciso (d1f714)

  102. With all the good faith and competence in the world, it’s way too early for any news outlet to have a reliable story. Is the Texas Department of Public Safety in charge of the investigation?

    nk (dbc370)

  103. I’m Jewish.
    Ein od milvado

    kishnevi (8d3389)

  104. There are already too many sign it will be memory holed like private ogilvy.

    narciso (d1f714)

  105. Col H, a good one there.

    kishnevi (8d3389)

  106. Ogilvy? Who’s that (proving your point about memory holes)?
    Google only gives me an advertising company.

    kishnevi (8d3389)

  107. A valiant fighter for Oceania on the doomed malabar front.

    narciso (d1f714)

  108. Is that the Chelsea Handler that had 50Cent as a boyfriend?
    The guy who has a shooting range under his house? Hmmm.
    Some of his entourage carry guns but don’t own them, so I suppose that is a fine distinction.
    When she was “dating” 50Cent she had to see guns guns guns felons with guns and not a Republican or Trump supporter in the bunch but not a peep.

    steveg (e8c34d) — 11/5/2017 @ 1:07 pm

    G Gordon Liddy said his wife owns a gun but she keeps it under his side of the bed.

    Pinandpuller (0b6cda)

  109. Bun burn is a sick little twist, kishnevi.
    nk (dbc370) — 11/5/2017 @ 4:50 pm

    Yeah, but even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  110. not if a blind squirrel’s trying to tell time with it

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  111. I’m Jewish.

    Ein od milvado

    kishnevi (8d3389) — 11/5/2017 @ 5:41 pm

    Thanks for teaching me Krav Maga.

    Also the hot pics of the IDF chicks.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  112. Oh, Orwell’s Minitru. I thought you were referencing the real Minitru.

    kishnevi (8d3389)

  113. I seem to remember you told me about Krav Maga!

    kishnevi (8d3389)

  114. He based it on the BBC world service.

    narciso (d1f714)

  115. Is that magazine loaded? It doesn’t need to be because I’ll drop to my knees right now.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  116. I seem to remember you told me about Krav Maga!
    kishnevi (8d3389) — 11/5/2017 @ 6:07 pm

    Lawrence Family Center. Sandy Eggo. I can pretty much bet my instructors wish I had never brought it up.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  117. http://www.lfjcc.org/

    Imagine. A goy like me.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  118. You speak in parables?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 11/5/2017 @ 5:24 pm

    You speak in Paradiddles

    Pinandpuller (0b6cda)

  119. Is that magazine loaded? It doesn’t need to be because I’ll drop to my knees right now.
    Steve57 (0b1dac) — 11/5/2017 @ 6:10 pm

    Hot Israeli chick.

    http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/6/5425/Israeli-1.jpg

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  120. Yeah, but even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

    Steve57 (0b1dac) — 11/5/2017 @ 5:58 pm

    A stopped military clock is only right once a day.

    Pinandpuller (0b6cda)

  121. but it costs twice as much so it works out

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  122. @123 Steve57

    You ever been to a mall around Christmas? They send out all the hot Israelis to sell Dead Sea Salt scrub and such. Hard to resist.

    Bet you can’t eat just one.

    Pinandpuller (0b6cda)

  123. 72. DRJ (15874d) — 11/5/2017 @ 3:51 pm

    From the press conference: A local resident got his gun and engaged the shooter as he exited the church. The resident chased the suspect, who dropped his rifle, and authorities aren’t sure if the suspect died from a self-inflicted wound or from being shot by the local resident.

    They’ll find out later, when they do ballistics tests or simply examine the caliber of the bullet. That was very early.

    Sutherland Springs had a population of about 400, and more than one church, although the two churches worked together on things. It is not on the map in a 1960s Hammond Atlas or listed in the Index (or gazetteer), and maybe didn’t exist in the 1960s. Later atlases don’t give population figures.

    New Braunfels is much bigger and is the county seat of Comal County, described as the next county.

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73)

  124. Now I’m hungry because somebody said Comal.

    urbanleftbehind (96a63d)

  125. Mr. Feet, see #77 lead by example– and smell the Canadian bacon.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  126. white males are 60 percent of total gun deaths in the United States and 79 percent of all firearm suicide victims.

    We like killing ourselves more than anyone else.

    Pinandpuller (0b6cda)

  127. dear God

    he’s just so profoundly not normal Mr. DCSCA

    he needs to repent and accept Jesus

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  128. https://www.thedailybeast.com/devin-patrick-kelley-idd-as-sutherland-springs-church-killer

    Notable update:

    Kelley was discharged from the Air Force in 2014, according to Defense Department records. Kelley was court-martialed in November 2012 for assaulting his wife and their child. A judge sentenced him with a bad-conduct discharge, 12 months confinement, and two reductions in rank to basic airman, according to an appeals court decision in 2013 that affirmed the decision against Kelley.

    Note that a bad-conduct discharge does not block gun ownership.

    Davethulhu (6a4a84)

  129. 135.
    But domestic violence often does.
    The mother-in-law attended this church. The assault on his wife and child suggests that DRJ’s suspicion this originated in a family matter is correct.

    kishnevi (dfdff5)

  130. Ah yeah, good point. 12 months could well be the equivalent of a felony as well.

    Davethulhu (6a4a84)

  131. Note that a bad-conduct discharge does not block gun ownership.

    I believe it does. Any conviction by a general court martial is considered a felony regardless of the underlying charge and, I expect, regardless of the sentence.

    nk (dbc370)

  132. Her career has gone sideways since charmed:
    https://mobile.twitter.com/Alyssa_Milano/status/927349648972500992

    narciso (d1f714)

  133. @139 nk

    The firearm in his FB post appears to be a SBR as well.

    And remember that a domestic abuse misdemeanor can void your gun rights.

    Pinandpuller (0b6cda)

  134. @136 kishnevi

    Sorry, didn’t see ya there. It will be interesting to see if there was some kind of Federal SNAFU in regards to background checks.

    Pinandpuller (0b6cda)

  135. Yes, it can. Just walk out, Pinandpuller. Just walk out.

    nk (dbc370)

  136. nk

    That was dumb of me. What do you tell a gun enthusiast lawyer with two black eyes about misdemeanor domestic abuse?

    Pinandpuller (0b6cda)

  137. It could have been a private sale.

    nk (dbc370)

  138. I looked up the law on prohibited possessors:

    law prohibits possession of a firearm by a person who has been convicted of any felony or a Class A misdemeanor involving a member of the person’s family or household, and five years have not elapsed since the person’s release from confinement or supervision. A firearm cannot be possessed by a person who is subject to certain family violence orders. It is unlawful to knowingly transfer a handgun to a person who intends to use it unlawfully or in the commission of an unlawful act, or is subject to an active protective order. A firearm cannot be knowingly transferred to a person who is younger than 18 years (without parental consent), intoxicated, or a convicted felon.

    http://www.statemaster.com/graph/gov_gun_law_pro_per-government-gun-laws-prohibited-persons

    The date of his court martial was 2012, so add a year for the sentence and then five more for the above law and he’s definitely within the prohibited period for domestic violence, regardless of whether he’s considered a felon or not.

    Davethulhu (6a4a84)

  139. I solved part of the problem by going to Bedside Baptist.

    Pinandpuller (0b6cda)

  140. Only doctors don’t like laymen talking to them about medicine, Pinandpuller. Lawyers don’t mind discussing law with non-lawyers. Everybody is presumed to know the law (honestly, that’s the law) so they might as well know it.

    nk (dbc370)

  141. If a gun was part of an abortion procedure they would hand them out to twelve year olds at school.

    Pinandpuller (0b6cda)

  142. nk

    Everybody is presumed to know malum in se. Malum prohibidum is why we need lawyers.

    I’m running a tab, right? I’m a great tipper too. Just sayin’.

    Pinandpuller (0b6cda)

  143. No, wait! Not everybody! According to the late Justice Antonin Scalia, government officials who raise a defense of qualified governmental immunity in a lawsuit for violation of a person’s Constitutional rights, are not presumed to know that they should keep their hands off of other people’s persons and property and, as a matter of fact, even Supreme Court Justices have trouble with such a radical concept.

    If you don’t believe me, you can find the link to the transcript of the oral argument in the Bongs For Jesus case on this site, but I don’t consider it worth the trouble to look for it.

    nk (dbc370)

  144. Kelley was an aggressive atheist very active on-line pushing hard against Christian belief and organized religion.

    In other words, an obsessed whackjob.

    ropelight (e67740)

  145. “This is a mental health problem at the highest level.”– President Donald J. Trump, Press conference response, Tokyo, Japan.

    Yes, Captain, sir, it certainly is.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  146. “This is a mental health problem at the highest level.”– President Donald J. Trump, Press conference response, Tokyo, Japan.

    How many mass shootings and dozens of innocent victims will it take before Trump is held accountable for failing to keep his campaign promise?

    He assured us that crime and violence would be a thing of the past as soon as he was inaugurated:


    “The crime and violence that today afflicts our nation will soon come to an end. Beginning on January 20th, 2017, safety will be restored.”
    – Donald Trump, 2016 Republican National Convention

    Dave (445e97)

  147. I have to admit when I go to church on Easter or Christmas, when the church is full, I think some evil thoughts. Like a beer can rolling down among the pews. “If someone wanted to wipe us all out, now would be the time to do it.” Then I think, what would I do about it. And would it be Christian?

    The thing is it has a basis in reality. It always has.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  148. How much you want to bet against an attack on a Coptic Church this Christmas? I will take those odds.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  149. nk (dbc370) — 11/5/2017 @ 9:34 pm
    I know enough to not go hunting with politicians.

    Pinandpuller (24819f)

  150. The thing is it has a basis in reality. It always has.
    Steve57 (0b1dac) — 11/5/2017 @ 11:02 pm

    Considering that Bethlehem is, uh, “Palestinian”.

    I went to a midnight church service with my family when I was 10 maybe. I fell asleep and my head thunked the back of the pew loudly. Nowdays that would elicit a different response unfortunately.

    Pinandpuller (24819f)

  151. “This is a mental health problem at the highest level.”– President Donald J. Trump, Press conference response, Tokyo, Japan.

    Yes, Captain, sir, it certainly is.
    DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/5/2017 @ 10:27 pm

    The line to turn in your guns and crazy kinfolk starts on your left.

    That was pretty funny, though.

    Pinandpuller (24819f)

  152. This year will be the first year I don’t make it home for the family for midnight mass. In as far as I can remember. I used to make it when I was in the Navy. My niece will get married in the spring and I can only make one trip home.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  153. will it take before Trump is held accountable for failing to keep his campaign promise

    Barack Obama was supposed to roll back the tide. He didn’t.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  154. Barack Obama was supposed to roll back the tide. He didn’t.

    So your argument is that Trump is only as bad as Obama? But unfortunately, you’re making stuff up.

    Obama said this:

    Because if we are willing to work for it, and fight for it, and believe in it, then I am absolutely certain that generations from now, we will be able to look back and tell our children that … this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal; …

    (emphasis added)

    Obama said he hoped begin slowing the rise of the oceans. If you believe, as Obama does, that human activity is an important contributing factor to that rise, slowing the rate of rise from, say, 3.2 mm per year (the rate since 1993) back closer to 1.7 mm per year (the average rate for the 20th century) is not a ludicrous thing to suggest.

    He did not say he would reverse the rise, but reduce the rate of the raise. That would be equivalent to Trump saying he would slow the growth of crime. He did not say he would “roll back the tide”; nor did he say “The climate change that today afflicts our world will soon come to an end. Beginning January 20, 2009, the planet will be restored.”

    Do you not understand that there is a difference between promising to slow the rate of increase of a harmful effect over a timescale of generations, and promising you will make crime and violence disappear overnight?

    With that said, I don’t think Obama really did much to live up to his rhetoric on the environment, so if you want to criticize him for that, you are certainly welcome (personally, I am glad he didn’t). There is a lot the Democrats could have done during their brief 2009 supermajority, but it clearly wasn’t a priority for them.

    Dave (445e97)

  155. Then I think, what would I do about it. And would it be Christian?

    The thing is it has a basis in reality. It always has.
    Steve57 (0b1dac) — 11/5/2017 @ 11:02 pm

    I have said this before, and I will say it again. The use of force, even lethal force, in the protection of innocent lives, is always a positive contribution to the virtue of justice. What could be more Christian than laying down your life for a friend? As the Master, so the disciple.

    felipe (023cc9)

  156. What could be more Christian than laying down your life for a friend?

    Taking a bullet for your friend, certainly.

    I’m less sure that taking another life, even in self-defense, is consistent with Christ’s teachings.

    As the Master, so the disciple.

    Jesus did not resist his own murder, and forgave his killers.

    “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.” – Matthew 5:38-39

    Dave (445e97)

  157. The shooter reportedly received a dishonorable discharge and 12 months confinement for assaulting his wife and child when he was stationed at Holloman AFB in NM. He currently/recently worked at Schlitterbahn as a licensed security guard. If this is true, then how could the DPS license him as a security guard with a dishonorable discharge on his record? It’s my understanding that he could not legally own a weapon so that policy needs to be changed.

    In addition, it’s fortunate (nothing about this is good, so I use that word reluctantly) that he did not target Schlitterbahn. He could have killed hundreds there.

    DRJ (15874d)

  158. Link.

    DRJ (15874d)

  159. The shooter reportedly received a dishonorable discharge…

    A Bad Conduct Discharge. He got the Big Chicken Dinner, not the Duck Dinner (Dishonorable Discharge). There is a slight difference.

    Most states treat a DD as a felony. A BCD may be a felony if the service member is sentenced to one year and one day in confinement. This airman could not have received a DD as he was convicted at a Special Court Martial. You can only get a DD at at a General Court Martial. Also, if it matters to anyone here, a person who has been “awarded” a BCD may still claim to have retained their honor.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  160. On the up side if you want to work for MSNBC or CNN a DD or BCD is probably going to be a plus.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  161. Goid point. Thank you for correcting me and clarifying that, Steve57.

    DRJ (15874d)

  162. Maybe that’s why he could get a security guard license. His confinement was 12 months, not 12 months and one day, so does that mean this was treated as a misdemeanor?

    DRJ (15874d)

  163. For every evil man, there are good men willing to step up and help. Bless them.

    DRJ (15874d)

  164. 165. DRJ (15874d) — 11/6/2017 @ 5:49 am

    it’s fortunate (nothing about this is good, so I use that word reluctantly) that he did not target Schlitterbahn. He could have killed hundreds there.

    Well, the National Rifle Association would say he wouldn’t even contemplate doing it there because there would be other people there with a gun, just like Dylan Roof avoided a college in South Carolina and went into a church instead.

    It’s interesting that, in contradistinction many of the others as he planned to escape (Dylan Roof also escaped, although he had not expected to be able to. So maybe we can say that when somebody goes into a church to kill, he expects to survive it.)

    Although maybe he had another place to go to and he didn’t expect to really get away with it for long.

    It seems like he really did want to escape more than continue his killings elsewhere. He dropped his rifle when he fled in his car after somebody confronted him with a gun.

    It seems that (as of 8:28am today CST) they hadn’t announced that they had identified him, because they hadn’t identified him in the way in which they would like to identify him (fingerprints, DNA, or at least family members viewing the body – and for this they’d probably want more than that last.)iends and acquaintances do.

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73)

  165. So he still had a gun, which was good for killing himself, but not for more mass murder. he had some kind of a survival instinct, at least so long as he could be free.

    One half remedy is just simply get rid of all these weapons that can fire numerous bullets very quickly. It is of no use to a defender. They will disappear pretty quickly if they are no longer manufactured, and magazines for them are no longer manufactured, and obstacles are place in the way of their sale. That would only have cut the death toll, though, but that’s something. The erason we have these high death tolls is because of firearms that weren’t around (in civilian hands) several decades ago.

    There is also the idea of mine to have somebody who wants to be eligible to purchase a gun give a list of people (some from both sexes) to be notified that someone has, or wants to, purchase a gun, who agree in advance to be on this list, and have them not object and have them lose something if they don’t object and it turns out to get stolen, or used in an accident or in the commission of a crime.

    At a minimum, he’d have to lie about what his plans are, and that provides an opening for detection. Psychiatrists don’t know anything but friends and acquaintances do. The NRA talks nonsense about this, and they don’t want the job of pronouncing people incipient killers, and know they can’t do it.

    DOnald trump is talking nonsense now.

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73)

  166. Sullivan laws which have been around for more than a century don’t stop slaughter in my sammeh so knock it off.

    narciso (6037fd)

  167. you can tell guns are good and necessary by looking at the people what want to take them away (bad people)

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  168. Sammy, he may have dropped his gun because he had been shot by a local resident responding to his daughter’s call for help.

    DRJ (15874d)

  169. In fact, that shot may have been what killed him.

    DRJ (15874d)

  170. While Congress frets how to reign in offshore scofflaw, the President and his cronies fly in our faces.

    The documents show that many of the wealthy individuals Trump brought into his administration have worked to legally store their money in offshore havens where they would be free from taxation in the United States. Trump has promised repeatedly to “drain the swamp,” in condemning the idea that well-connected individuals in Washington, D.C., preserve their own interests at the expense of the rest of the country.
    Among the Trump administration officials implicated in the leaks is Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross, who according to the documents concealed his ties to a Russian energy company that is partly owned by Russian President Vladimir Putin’s judo partner Gennady Timchenko and Putin’s son-in-law, Kirill Shamalov. Through offshore investments, Ross held a stake in Navigator Holdings, which had a close business relationship with the Russian firm. Ross did not disclose that connection during his confirmation process on Capitol Hill.

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/massive-leak-reveals-new-ties-between-trump-administration-and-russia-implicating-commerce-secretary-wilbur-ross-and-jared-kushner

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  171. you can tell guns are good and necessary by looking at the people what want to take them away (bad people)

    happyfeet (28a91b) — 11/6/2017 @ 7:20 am

    I didn’t automatically become good when I joined the Navy. But the government gave me a gun.

    Sure it was only a S&W J frame in .38 Special because some jackwagon…

    But I digress. It still was a gun. And I didn’t automatically become bad when I retired in 2008.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  172. People don’t like paying taxes ask the trudeau family, including prime minister zoolander re claridge and the bronfmans

    narciso (6037fd)

  173. I mention this because I recently read, maybe here, about some sea service member going rogue. And I thought, no matter what happens you’re still ours. Somebody sometime thought you belonged. In my case it was Gunnery Sergeant Holt and Staff Sergeant Norton.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=415HQ1t2ZNI

    Maybe they made an error in judgement. But now we have to live with it.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  174. they let you keep the gun?

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  175. The point is to read everything

    Weekly World News? Infowars? Daily Worker?

    Kevin M (752a26) — 11/5/2017 @ 5:36 pm

    Mein Kamph , Little women, the Dictionary, Holy Bible…yeah…everything

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  176. wow our slicked-up and cowardly friend John McCain wants to do maximum damage on America in the short time he has left

    it must be his programming

    In a move that effectively aligns the White House with Senate Democrats, the Senate Armed Services Committee led by John McCain, R-Ariz., has proposed language in the 2018 defense spending bill that would end long-held domestic sourcing protections, which require the Defense Department to rely on American-made suppliers for certain products deemed critical to national security.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  177. Trump rode into office on promises to rip up international trade agreements and put America’s economic interests first.

    Ride that baloney pony!!

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  178. they let you keep the gun?

    happyfeet (28a91b) — 11/6/2017 @ 7:42 am

    No, like the airplane I had to give it back.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  179. probably an inventory thing

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  180. e Kochs get all the ink and, recently, the Mercers have seen their (extraordinarily white) profiles skyrocket, but of all the wingnut sugar daddies presiding over the care and feeding of America’s conservative infrastructure, the Ricketts clan has been sadly overlooked by the cheap peddlers of scorn and mockery like, for example, me. No longer, though.

    http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  181. Jesus did not resist his own murder, and forgave his killers.

    “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.” – Matthew 5:38-39

    Dave (445e97) — 11/6/2017 @ 5:44 am

    Very good, you understand. Jesus stood in our place, dying the death we all deserved because of our sins, so that he could, in all justice, forgive our sins. All sins, paste, present, future.

    felipe (b5e0f4)

  182. lol, past, not paste. I am pretty sue I do not use auto correct.

    felipe (b5e0f4)

  183. All sins except the sin against the holy spirit, which is unforgiveable

    Wait..what?</em

    Heh. Look it up.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  184. From the reports I have now read, it appears the shooter had a conviction for domestic violence, and hence it was ALREADY illegal for him to possess firearms.

    So what we have is not a law problem, but a law ENFORCEMENT problem. How do we make sure that the laws on the books are enforced in real life?

    It’s easy to say, let’s pass more laws outlawing something for more law-abiding people. It’s much harder to say, let’s figure out how to make sure the laws already on the books are actually carried out, to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and the mentally disturbed.

    Seems to me that the latter agenda is one you could get a consensus on in the country. Although it would take the politicization out of it, which some people do not want.

    Bored Lawyer (998177)

  185. probably an inventory thing

    happyfeet (28a91b) — 11/6/2017 @ 7:53 am

    Same thing with the boat I’m guessing. I don’t have it. And the IRS hasn’t contacted me about it.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  186. “I am pretty sue…” Arright, what’s goin’ on?

    felipe (b5e0f4)

  187. The Smith was a lot easier to replace than the boat or airplane.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  188. Automistake is dark magic,

    narciso (48ecae)

  189. Yes bored lawyer. There seems a reluctance to discuss what to do about borderline personalities in connection with firearms. Who would you trust to do Evans? The Courts? Psychologists? Independent entrepreneurs?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  190. Not Evans…Evals…as in evaluation.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  191. Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 11/6/2017 @ 7:57 am

    Ben, my dear child, the “unforgivable sin” or the “sin against The Holy Spirit,” is not accepting forgiveness – it is our limitation, not God’s, in not believing that our sin can be forgiven. You can look up Scripture, but it is obvious you still don’t understand it.

    felipe (b5e0f4)

  192. …3For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but bad. Do you want to be unafraid of the one in authority? Then do what is right, and you will have his approval. 4For he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not carry the sword in vain. He is God’s servant, an agent of retribution to the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to authority, not only to avoid punishment, but also as a matter of conscience.…

    The profession of arms is a noble profession, because one does not bear arms for one’s own sake, but for others’s.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  193. Funny how Viacom, Comcast mca universal condenast Disney, wasn’t enough to get red quuen across the finish line.

    narciso (698fbd)

  194. Yeah, I’ve heard those unschloarly explanations like why Jacob wrestled with an angel. It’s too bad more devoted types are satisfied with superficiality than they are understanding their doctrinal pits.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  195. Steve57 (0b1dac) — 11/6/2017 @ 8:09 am

    Very well said, Steve57.

    felipe (b5e0f4)

  196. narciso (698fbd) — 11/6/2017 @ 8:10 am

    I imagine a cartoon depicting Adre’the giant climbing the “Cliffs of Insanity” with the titlte of “big media” on his back with Shrillery in tow as well as two shadowy figures identified as “Benghazi” and “Emails”. The caption below: “did I make it clear that your job is on the line?”

    felipe (b5e0f4)

  197. Felipe, my good friend, there is one other unforgivable sin.

    Do not take the Lord’s name in vain.

    This isn’t to say you can’t be forgiven if you hit your thumb with a hammer and shout out. But if you kill your kids and say you did it because God commanded you?

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  198. Even Nero, Domitian and Diocletian? Hitler, Stalin, Mao? It is my belief that St. Paul did not mean a word of that. That he was heedful of Christ’s admonition:

    Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

    — Matthew 10:16

    To keep the militants of his flock from the cross or the arena.

    nk (dbc370)

  199. All sins except the sin against the holy spirit, which is unforgiveable

    “Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit,” to be precise. My mom (who was a pentecostal minister) mentioned that to me once.

    Dave (445e97)

  200. 174. narciso (6037fd) — 11/6/2017 @ 7:14 am

    Sullivan laws which have been around for more than a century don’t stop slaughter in my sammeh so knock it off.

    They not only stop it directly, but they take it out of the culture.

    I don’t know how you can say they don’t do anything. Last week a terrorist coukdn’t use a gun and he used a truck instead.

    He actually got 2 guns – one was a BB gun and one was a paintball gun – not very deadly – and 3 knives but he didn’t use even them. He put the guns in his hands, but not the knives, and was shot.

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73)

  201. Peter was militant enough to slice off an ear when they came for Jesus.

    those who live by the sword, die by the sword then he healed the servants ear, chastising Peter in the process.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  202. Bored Lawyer,

    Good point. I wonder if his Bad Conduct Discharge and confinement would show up on his record as a domestic violence conviction? I assume it would but I don’t know for sure how military records treat this, or if federal and state governments have access to the details. Assuming the details were known and available, then something went wrong here …

    … unless he stole the weapons he used. If so, then I guess one answer is to look at whether the gun owner(s) adequately secured their weapons. If not, prosecute them.

    DRJ (15874d)

  203. For what it’s worth, 666 is the gematria of Nero, when pronounced as in Greek, and spelled pout in Hebrew. (or to put it another way, it’s the number of the beast)

    N – Nun = 50
    E – Yud = 10 (with the Yud acting as a vowel)
    R – Resh = 200
    0 – Vuv = 6
    S – Sav = 400 (Sorry, Sephardim)

    Total: 666

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73)

  204. @nk: But in any case I as talking about getting rid – just getting rid of, from everyone including the police (with maybe a few very special exceptions) of any kind of firearm that could fire off X number of bullets or more in 3, 10 and 30 seconds. Getting rid of any new ones.

    I also was talking about preventing any person from being the only person who knew, and was OK with, the fact that they had bought a firearm.

    But I was not talking of some government chosen committee or the police approving. I was talking about it being necessary for 10 people, at least three of the opposite sex, having to know and approve. With some incentives not to just hand out approval willy nilly. Like maybe they’d have to write out insurance against it being used in an accident or a crime, AND EACH OF THEM, LET’S SAY, BE CHARGED $1,000 IF IT WAS, within, say, three years.

    Obviously, how this works in practice depends upon the details.

    More: And they couldn’t buy re-insurance, or rather, it would not be collectible if they did, and would not be covered under any personal liability policy. And also a limit as to how many guns each person could guarantee/insure. And it would have to be someone else’s gun. And someone who knew the original gun purchaser. With the ability to remove themselves from the policy if they found out something.

    Which could lead to something if a replacement wasn’t found quickly, or in some cases, to an investigation, like what the secret service does with threats. This is one idea.

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73)

  205. 213. DRJ (15874d) — 11/6/2017 @ 8:35 am

    I wonder if his Bad Conduct Discharge and confinement would show up on his record as a domestic violence conviction?

    Probably not.

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73)

  206. ben-208, doesnt mean much at this point, lower-level government employees may not dislike Trump at this stage due to no mass RIFs and a restraint of bureaucratic directive (making their job seem more like a paid vacation than under an “activist” administration).

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  207. Except that Greek did not, and still does not, transliterate Nero as Neros in any declencion. It’s:
    Neron/Neronas
    Nerona
    Neronan

    nk (dbc370)

  208. My ex grew up on a farm in Medina County, adjacent to and southwest of Wilson County, in which Sutherlin Springs is located. This land south of Bexar County (San Antonio) is dry and harsh hardscrabble land — very difficult to farm or ranch profitably, and hence in general economic and population decline since at least WW2. San Antonio, with its large population and, especially, its many military bases and hospitals is the social and economic magnet for these surrounding counties. People in this part of Texas think nothing at all of driving 15 or 30 or 60 miles as part of their regular daily roundtrips to work or see family. Those who haven’t left for the bright lights of SA or the even brighter lights of Austin, Dallas, or Houston, are a stubborn and fiercely proud crew, and families are famous for holding decades-long grudges for reasons that seem absolutely impenetrable to outsiders. My ex’s mother, for example, lived not 200 yards from her own sister on an adjoining farm, yet for the last 25+ years of each of their long lives, they spoke not a word to one another — a grudge going back to a cutting (but accurate) breakfast table remark my ex’s mother had made about one of her sister’s sons upon his return to prison for some reason or another. They went to their graves without mending their feud, and indeed, they continued it long after the (violent but accidental) death of the son/nephew, “Boomie” (it’s a great country for nicknames).

    Beldar (fa637a)

  209. DRJ @176 and 177

    Sammy, he may have dropped his gun because he had been shot by a local resident responding to his daughter’s call for help.

    Someone not present in the church. Cellphones are maybe not so steeped into the culture yet that would be shooters who go to someolace without guns automatically think of them.

    In fact, that shot may have been what killed him.

    You mean he was only wounded and drove for some distance till he became unconscious from the loss of blood?

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73)

  210. It’s minimalist urban but since he seems antisocial I think Trumps fan club has more context.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  211. … unless he stole the weapons he used.

    He didn’t have to steal them. It could have been a private sale. Texas does not have a firearm owners identification law or a background check requirement for individual to individual transfers.

    nk (dbc370)

  212. 215

    Psych evals are very subjective and full of human mischief. Devising a plan that is fair to all is not a human talent.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  213. So he still had a gun, which was good for killing himself, but not for more mass murder. he had some kind of a survival instinct, at least so long as he could be free.

    One half remedy is just simply get rid of all these weapons that can fire numerous bullets very quickly. It is of no use to a defender. They will disappear pretty quickly if they are no longer manufactured, and magazines for them are no longer manufactured, and obstacles are place in the way of their sale. That would only have cut the death toll, though, but that’s something. The erason we have these high death tolls is because of firearms that weren’t around (in civilian hands) several decades ago.

    There is also the idea of mine to have somebody who wants to be eligible to purchase a gun give a list of people (some from both sexes) to be notified that someone has, or wants to, purchase a gun, who agree in advance to be on this list, and have them not object and have them lose something if they don’t object and it turns out to get stolen, or used in an accident or in the commission of a crime.

    At a minimum, he’d have to lie about what his plans are, and that provides an opening for detection. Psychiatrists don’t know anything but friends and acquaintances do. The NRA talks nonsense about this, and they don’t want the job of pronouncing people incipient killers, and know they can’t do it.

    DOnald trump is talking nonsense now.

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73) — 11/6/2017 @ 6:54 am

    You want it so much, go push a Constitutional Amendment. Otherwise, knock it off. You’re way to comfortable letting the government determine what’s acceptable arms for the populace to handle. Maybe Venezuela would be a better place for you.

    NJRob (7f4bec)

  214. @nk: But in any case I as talking about getting rid – just getting rid of, from everyone including the police (with maybe a few very special exceptions) of any kind of firearm that could fire off X number of bullets or more in 3, 10 and 30 seconds. Getting rid of any new ones.

    I also was talking about preventing any person from being the only person who knew, and was OK with, the fact that they had bought a firearm.

    But I was not talking of some government chosen committee or the police approving. I was talking about it being necessary for 10 people, at least three of the opposite sex, having to know and approve. With some incentives not to just hand out approval willy nilly. Like maybe they’d have to write out insurance against it being used in an accident or a crime, AND EACH OF THEM, LET’S SAY, BE CHARGED $1,000 IF IT WAS, within, say, three years.

    Obviously, how this works in practice depends upon the details.

    More: And they couldn’t buy re-insurance, or rather, it would not be collectible if they did, and would not be covered under any personal liability policy. And also a limit as to how many guns each person could guarantee/insure. And it would have to be someone else’s gun. And someone who knew the original gun purchaser. With the ability to remove themselves from the policy if they found out something.

    Which could lead to something if a replacement wasn’t found quickly, or in some cases, to an investigation, like what the secret service does with threats. This is one idea.

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73) — 11/6/2017 @ 8:41 am

    So you support poll taxes which are already unconstitutional. Got it.

    NJRob (7f4bec)

  215. He bought the gun in April and Texas authorities want to know How did this happen:

    State investigators said they have been told that Kelley purchased the rifle in April 2016 from an Academy Sports & Outdoors store in San Antonio. When he filled out the paperwork for the mandatory background check, Kelly checked a box stating he did not have a criminal history that would disqualify him from purchasing the weapon, another law enforcement source said.
    At the time, he listed a Colorado Springs, Colo, home address.
    “So how was it that he was able to get a gun? By all the facts that we seem to know, he was not supposed to have access to a gun,” Abbott told CNN. “So how did this happen?”

    My guess is that the federal database doesn’t include all military records.

    DRJ (15874d)

  216. Sammy,

    I have seen conflicting reports. One said the local hero who confronted the shooter was able to shoot him, despite his vest, and the shooter either dropped his gun or the hero knocked it away.

    It was also reported that the shooter died but it’s not clear if it was a self-inflicted wound or from being shot by someone else, such as being shot by the local hero. However, The Sheriff reportedly said the shooter shot himself in the head after running off the road.

    DRJ (15874d)

  217. Dave (445e97) — 11/6/2017 @ 8:30 am

    Quite right. It goes by a variety of names.

    felipe (b5e0f4)

  218. Meeting with Japanese business leaders, Trump said, “We love it when you build cars – if you’re a Japanese firm, we love it – try building your cars in the United States instead of shipping them over.”

    Gaijun!

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  219. nk @218.

    Except that Greek did not, and still does not, transliterate Nero as Neros in any declencion. It’s:
    Neron/Neronas
    Nerona
    Neronan

    Don’t a lot of names have a form ending in s?

    There’s another version, which didn’t look as good to me, and I also couldn’t re-calculate it. I found it on a website. It doesn’t have an s and adds the word Caesar or Kaiser (as it was actually pronounced in languages other than English)

    N – Nun = 50
    E – Yud = 10 (with the Yud acting as a vowel) Vowel not used in spelling
    R – Resh = 200
    0 – Vuv = 6
    N – Nun = 50 (Sorry, Sephardim)

    K – Kooph = 100
    S = Samech = 60
    R – Resh – 200

    Total: 666.

    This involves the person doing this not using a Yud as a vowel often.

    The following website says there’s an old manuscript fragment (illustrated on that web page) in which the number of the beast is 616, which would be explained by leaving off the N and pronouncing the name as in Latin. (although it could also just be a copying mistake)

    http://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/encyclopaedia_romana/gladiators/nero.html

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73)

  220. A Japanese official told reporters the country’s famed Wagyu beef would be on Sunday’s menu, prompting fears of a culinary gaffe.

    In May, Mr Trump shocked the foodie world by ordering his $71 steak cooked “well done” and (gasp) smothering it in tomato sauce.

    Asked about the prospect of a similar food snob crime against high-end Wagyu, the Japanese foreign affairs official implied a subtle dance of manners is at play.

    “We will prepare ketchup,” the official said.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  221. Moron: someone who puts ketchup on hot dogs and steak.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  222. There’s something strange going on with criminal background checks because the shooter passed a background check to work at Schlitterbahn. He was fired just over a month later. Did more information come back later or did he have problems at work?

    No matter. He shouldn’t have passed the background check at work or to get a gun. There is a breakdown somewhere.

    DRJ (15874d)

  223. Of course you can make anything add up to anything, or come close, if you work on it.

    It’s been done for Windows 95, but that adds up to 665. I’m not sure what they did to get the missing about the 1. Or maybe that’s why Microsoft was anxious that it not become windows 96. It was released in August, 1995.

    Using ASCII values of capital letters:

    W = 87
    I = 73
    N = 78
    D = 68
    0 = 79
    W = 87
    S = 83

    9 = 57
    5 = 53

    Total: 665.

    MS-DOS 6.21 works much better, except there was no such exact version

    M = 77
    S = 83
    – = 45 (dash character)
    D = 68
    0 = 79
    S = 83
    [space] = 32
    6 = 54
    . = 46 [dot or period character]
    2 = 50
    1 = 49

    Total: 666.

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73)

  224. Your interpretation of 666 is widely accepted, Sammy. But in my church, Revelations seems to be the red-headed stepchild. Although the Gospels, Acts and Epistles are incorporated into church services, no part of Revelations is, and people who talk about it a lot are looked at askance.

    nk (dbc370)

  225. DRJ (15874d) — 11/6/2017 @ 9:03 am

    My guess is that the federal database doesn’t include all military records.

    My guess would be that military records aren’t classified into the same categories as criminal records. I would guess it’s not broken down into whether or not it would have been a civilian crime too, and what kind.

    So even if the law’s exclusions included that, no one would know including maybe the buyer of the firearm, unless he had been specifically told..

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73)

  226. He answered no to domestic violence. They just take your word? What the neck is a background check? Isn’t it paid for?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  227. Actually 666 = Nero doesn’t do much for people who want to make use of that book, so that equivalency should be very much OK with your church.

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73)

  228. Steve57 (0b1dac) — 11/6/2017 @ 8:21 am
    If God actually commanded this, there is no sin to be forgiven, but if he is wrong or lying about it,this is also forgivable, once he repents, and ask for forgiveness. If he is just crazy, then this a different ball of wax.

    felipe (b5e0f4)

  229. Nero, was the prototype, not even rev 4:11

    narciso (d1f714)

  230. 237. Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 11/6/2017 @ 9:34 am

    He answered no to domestic violence. They just take your word?

    What’s the question?

    Is it something like:

    Did you ever beat your wife?

    Or more like:

    Have you ever been convicted of beating your wife?

    Now a court martial, whose underlying conduct involved domestic violence is not called a conviction..

    What the neck is a background check? Isn’t it paid for?

    Lots of people are stopped from buying guns each year, most of whom probably do not know they are ineligible. Most of whom do not intend to commit any crimes. But there are people who like to cite statistics: X number of felons were stopped from buying guns by background checks!

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73)

  231. Do criminal background checks include military records, including a Bad Conduct Discharge, or are they only based on federal and state criminal records?

    It sounds like only court martial convictions show up, so a bad conduct discharge might not appear — even if it were for domestic assault. (Thanks, again, to Steve57 for making that distinction earlier. It may be more and more important as this case unfolds.)

    DRJ (15874d)

  232. #207, S-57, the prohibition against taking the Lord’s name in vain is widely misunderstood. It has little to do with cussing, and everything to do with misrepresenting the Lord’s truth. And, it’s a powerful admonition directed especially to priests and preachers against putting their own words in Jesus’ mouth.

    Those who presume to lead others to Christ should take great care to differentiate between their own usually well-meaning but unsanctified recommendations and the revealed word of the Lord. It’s an often overlooked distinction, but one sufficiently important to be included among the foundational commandments. Cussing, not so much.

    ropelight (e67740)

  233. Meeting with Japanese business leaders, Trump said, “We love it when you build cars – if you’re a Japanese firm, we love it – try building your cars in the United States instead of shipping them over.”

    Gaijun!

    Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 11/6/2017 @ 9:18 am

    Gaijin.

    Gai meaning out, or foreigner.

    Jin meaning person.

    https://mymemory.translated.net/en/Japanese/English/nihonjin-desu-ka

    A Japanese person is a Nihonjin. A Chinese person is a Chukogujin.

    Straighten up and fly right, Mr. Burn. Because I’m not always going to be here to unscrew you.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  234. 私は信じません

    Kono Burn jin.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  235. It’s disgusting, this shooting. As are all.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  236. https://www.criterion.com/current/posts/2358-the-samurai-trilogy-musashi-mifune

    There hasn’t been a good movie made since.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  237. It appears there is a problem in the federal criminal background check process. It seems this shooter shouldn’t have been able to get a gun and neither should Dylan Roof, but they did:

    In April 2015, Dylann Roof was sold a .45-caliber Glock pistol at a Charleston, S.C.-area gun store despite confessing to drug possession a month earlier. The seller ran an NICS background check, which was delayed and assigned to an FBI official in West Virginia. The official failed to discover the confession for drug possession before three days had passed, and the sale to Mr. Roof was completed. The confession would have disqualified him from buying the gun he used to murder nine people at Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church on June 17, 2015.

    I don’t know if the seller here got immediate approval or delayed apprival, but the sale was apparently approved. We need to fix this process.

    DRJ (15874d)

  238. At the same link, only dishonorable discharges are flagged on a military background check. Also, domestic assault convictions, but I’m not sure if the shooter’s bad conduct confinement was reported that way. If it was, then he should not have gotten that gun … so my guess is it wasn’t.

    DRJ (15874d)

  239. Steve57 (0b1dac) — 11/6/2017 @ 10:52 am

    I know what you mean. I have that trilogy on dvd. I would love to have it on BD.

    felipe (b5e0f4)

  240. https://www.criterion.com/explore/157-toshiro-mifune

    Nobody does looking angry like Mifune, do they?

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  241. This shooter was deniedvs Texas concealed carry license do the Texas screening process worked:

    Abbott and DPS officials insisted that state licensing rules had worked as they should have, in that Kelley was denied a concealed handgun permit. They said current state law prohibited him from getting a licensed firearm, because of his military record and his past allegations of domestic violence.

    Federal officials who are responsible for federal gun-purchase background checks said they were investigating how Kelley was able to purchase the guns. Several investigators familiar with those background checks said the details of his military discharge should likely have precluded him from being approved, while others said they were not so sure.

    DRJ (15874d)

  242. Sorry for the typos.

    This shooter was denied a Texas concealed carry license so the Texas screening process worked:

    DRJ (15874d)

  243. It will be interesting to learn how this killer evaded the law.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  244. Steve57 @172

    If I see a shooting star im going to wish that JCVD writes and directs a movie about The Navy cloning their new recruits from your DNA.

    Pinandpuller (bd1ec1)

  245. I think I’m ok with killing an active shooter and asking God’s forgiveness at a more convenient location.

    Pinandpuller (bd1ec1)

  246. To CTR that’s Steve57 @179

    BB @183

    To quote Steven Wright, it’s a small world but I wouldn’t want to paint it.

    Pinandpuller (bd1ec1)

  247. Kelley was maybe both shot and then shot himself:

    http://www.newser.com/story/251184/domestic-situation-may-have-led-to-church-massacre.html

    Police say that when Kelley left the church he exchanged gunfire with a citizen, then led the citizen and another on a high-speed chase….At some point in the pursuit, Kelley called his father to say he’d been shot and didn’t expect to live, reports CBS News. Police think Kelley fatally shot himself—he also may have been shot by the citizen—but the details were still being sorted out.

    The chae pasted 11 miles.

    Devin Kelley had texted threats to his mother-in-law, who was not in the church that day. The pastor and his wife also were not – they were travelling,.But his 14-year old daughter was, and wass killed. The youngest killed was 18 months old; the oldest was 77 years.

    Another story:

    http://www.newser.com/story/251169/hero-describes-pursuit-of-texas-church-shooter.html

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  248. Ho-o-ol-e-e sh*t

    Yeah, now you know how I got my call sign.

    My last name rimes with Toledo.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  249. Kelley was maybe both shot and then shot himself.

    I agree, Sammy.

    DRJ (15874d)

  250. Now we learn why he could buy a gun despite his domestic assault conviction:

    Air Force Failed To Enter Texas Shooter’s Assault Conviction In Federal Database

    DRJ (15874d)

  251. Let’s have Bored Lawyer’s conversation about enforcing the laws we have, not passing new laws.

    DRJ (15874d)

  252. the US military and competence are kinda like Robert Mueller and integrity

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  253. His family had to know some of this — that he had guns, that he was angry and threatening, that he had beaten his first wife, son and a puppy. It’s hard to know what to do when your relative acts this way but is an adult, but there were warning signs.

    DRJ (15874d)

  254. You only wrestle angels at catch weight.

    Pinandpuller (d078b6)

  255. @227 DRJ

    The guy from across the road engaged with a rifle. Unless D-bag had a plate carrier many standard rifle calibers will penetrate soft body armor. Not to mention his fat head.

    A standard arrow and broad head or ice pick as well.

    Pinandpuller (d078b6)

  256. Moron: someone who puts ketchup on hot dogs and steak.
    Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 11/6/2017 @ 9:24 am

    Food Fascist: someone who cares what other people eat.

    Pinandpuller (7381a5)

  257. Of course you can make anything add up to anything, or come close, if you work on it. It’s been done for Windows 95, but that adds up to 665. I’m not sure what they did to get the missing about the 1. Or maybe that’s why Microsoft was anxious that it not become windows 96. It was released in August, 1995.

    Phil, the Prince of Insufficient Light is the ruler of Heck and the Pointy-Haired Boss’s brother. As the ruler of heck, he “darns” people who commit minor infractions, such as taking two ketchup packets when you only need one, or borrowing copier paper for the laser printer. His darnings include equally minor punishments, such as sitting in the secretary’s cubicle or being stuck with an annoying coworker for hours.

    Pinandpuller (7381a5)

  258. Your interpretation of 666 is widely accepted, Sammy. But in my church, Revelations seems to be the red-headed stepchild. Although the Gospels, Acts and Epistles are incorporated into church services, no part of Revelations is, and people who talk about it a lot are looked at askance.
    nk (dbc370) — 11/6/2017 @ 9:30 am

    So when you turn the last page of Jude does your Bible say

    *SPOILER ALERT*?

    Pinandpuller (7381a5)

  259. You cannot read it in isolation:
    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+4:11a

    narciso (d1f714)

  260. #207, S-57, the prohibition against taking the Lord’s name in vain is widely misunderstood. It has little to do with cussing, and everything to do with misrepresenting the Lord’s truth. And, it’s a powerful admonition directed especially to priests and preachers against putting their own words in Jesus’ mouth.
    ropelight (e67740) — 11/6/2017 @ 10:32 am

    It sounds like invoke or attribute would be better words.

    A. Appeal to Authority

    B. Citation Needed

    Pinandpuller (7381a5)

  261. Unless D-bag had a plate carrier many standard rifle calibers will penetrate soft body armor.

    Kelley was wearing a ballistic vest with a plate on the front

    …according to a spokesman for the Department of Public Safety.

    Dave (445e97)

  262. Who here could tell I might find something in common.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  263. Steve57

    Nihongo dekimasu-chiisai.

    Do you Sonny Chiba-brah?

    Pinandpuller (7381a5)

  264. It will be interesting to learn how this killer evaded the law.
    Steve57 (0b1dac) — 11/6/2017 @ 11:17 am

    He evaded The Law but he did not evade Justice.

    Justicia, Tierra y Liberdad

    He’s two for three.

    Pinandpuller (7381a5)

  265. Gee I hope the shooter used his blue tooth to call his dad fleeing from the crime scene.

    Pinandpuller (7381a5)

  266. 236. The Air Force, it turns out, was supposed to enter the conviction into a federally maintained database, but they didn’t. Probably because somebody’s got to know that the conviction in the court martial was of a specific offense that goes in there, and it’s not routine.

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73)

  267. My last name rimes with Toledo.
    Steve57 (0b1dac) — 11/6/2017 @ 1:35 pm

    There’s a restaurant in Cave Creek, AZ called The Horney Toad. They used to have a burger called The Tijuana Torpedo. Green chile and cheese inside the beef patty. Any relation?

    Pinandpuller (7381a5)

  268. Devin Patrick Kelley had three gunshot wounds, including a self-inflicted shot to the head, Texas authorities said. Kelley was also shot in the leg and torso by an armed citizen, authorities said.

    Just posted by CNN.

    Dave (445e97)

  269. Kelley was spotted by some people before he went into the church, and he shot them so they could not give an alert.

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73)

  270. Nihingo dekimasu, yo. Shichi nenkan toshite beikagun renraku shoku tsutomeshite immashite.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  271. If you want to leave my comment in moderation.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  272. There were 2 guns, besides the rifle, found in the church. I wonder if they belonged to some other people rather than the killer.

    One girl’s glasses were shot or shattered (not clear) and after that she hid successfully. Her brother was severely wounded but made it out of surgery OK.

    The grandmother of his current wife was killed.

    There was a family – a man, his wife, five children, and she was pregnant. The wife was killed, and 3 of the children.

    Now 2 of the 5 worst mass killings of civilians in the United States by guns happened in the last 35 days.

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73)

  273. Nihingo??!!??

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  274. Now 2 of the 5 worst mass killings of civilians in the United States by guns happened in the last 35 days.

    Crime and violence haven’t exactly come to an end, have they?

    And yet, together, Las Vegas and Sutherland Springs will constitute less than one percent of the gun-related homicides in the US this year.

    Not to minimize the tragedy or the magnitude of the crimes, but peoples’ obsession with high profile, media saturation incidents is unseemly.

    Dave (445e97)

  275. PandP,

    It’s been reported that the local resident who shot the shooter managed to hit him through a gap in his body armor. They are calling him a sharpshooter and I wouldn’t doubt it, since many experienced hunters in rural Texas can hit a small target. But it could also have been a lucky shot.

    DRJ (15874d)

  276. He is the best kind of hero — scared to death but he did it anyway, for his friends.

    DRJ (15874d)

  277. “I think my God, my Lord protected me and gave me the skills to do what needed to be done,” Willeford told 40/29 News.

    DRJ (15874d)

  278. The Third Commandment is aimed at taking vain oaths..either swearing to a falsehood or swearing when there is no need to take an oath.

    Profanity is prohibited in other verses, and the subject of false teaching is addressed by several other commandments, most of them in Deuteronomy.

    kishnevi (07cb64)

  279. Here is a link to the interview with the local hero who shot, chased and detained the shooter.

    DRJ (15874d)

  280. He is a former NRA instructor.

    DRJ (15874d)

  281. Why was only given a year, for cracking his sons skull.

    narciso (d1f714)

  282. I don’t know, narciso.

    Sammy, you were right. The local hero shot Kelley twice, once in the torso and once in the leg. Kelly shot himself in the head.

    DRJ (15874d)

  283. Steve57

    I just learned about sinook today. Interesting. I’m guessing you know what I’m talking about.

    From Eric Weinstein, brother of Bret Weinstein of Evergreen State fame.

    Mathematician and economist Bret Weinstein with powerful Joe Roagan

    Pinandpuller (7381a5)

  284. #273, p&p, no citation required, only common sense. Something so trivial as cussing is much too insignificant to be included among foundational commandments against stealing, murder, adultry, etc.

    While a strong prohibition against presuming to imbue one’s own pronouncements with the authority of the Lord is exactly the sort of transgression that belongs among the commandments.

    Priests and preachers tend to focus on cussing largely because their stock in trade usually involves frequent violation of the more restrictive definition.

    ropelight (e67740)

  285. Watashi wa okoi tomodachi.

    Pinandpuller (7381a5)

  286. #273, p&p, no citation required, only common sense. Something so trivial as cussing is much too insignificant to be included among foundational commandments against stealing, murder, adultry, etc.

    ropelight (e67740) — 11/6/2017 @ 6:21 pm

    I was unclear, and that’s my bad,

    What I’m saying is that people tell other people what to do appealing to heavenly authority, when they are given no such authority by God. Like back in the day when I bought something at a hotel and told them to charge it to the room. My dad didn’t actually authorize it. I used his name in vain. I agree with you.

    I think there’s also a difference between God’s name and what we call Him. Plus there is a name no man knows anyway.

    Pinandpuller (7381a5)

  287. I’m oki doki too, my friend.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  288. How the media inspires mass killers

    Mother Jones

    Pinandpuller (7381a5)

  289. Why was only given a year, for cracking his sons skull.
    narciso (d1f714) — 11/6/2017 @ 5:54 pm

    Warren County, Kentucky DA AMA!!!

    Pinandpuller (7381a5)

  290. How the media inspires mass killers

    Mother Jones

    Pinandpuller (7381a5) — 11/6/2017 @ 6:37 pm

    If you you’ve been like me a child of the sixties and seventies you remember the Deviil’s Brigade. There’s a scene where Cliff Robertson tries to tell Bill Holden about Dunkirk. Holden shuts him down.

    That’s a movie.

    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2577155-i-boat-captain

    https://www.usni.org/author/capt-tameichi-hara

    Please note the source of the last.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  291. I don’t want anyone to think I’m minimizing this. It’s a horrible thing, this atrocity.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  292. South Pacific Destroyer.

    If you read that, you’ll have read the book.

    https://www.amazon.com/South-Pacific-Destroyer-Battle-Solomons/dp/1591141435

    South Pacific Destroyer: The Battle for the Solomons from Savo Island to Vella Gulf Paperback – September 1, 2009
    by Russell Sydnor Crenshaw Jr. (Author)

    No. Wait one.

    Then you’ve read the book.

    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1658788.Naval_Shiphandling

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  293. Capt Albert H Brooks looked a lot like LBJ. No offense.

    Pinandpuller (7381a5)

  294. Steve57 (0b1dac) — 11/6/2017 @ 6:52 pm

    I’m a child of every decade starting in the 60’s.

    Pinandpuller (7381a5)

  295. Non taken. I have thick skin.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  296. None.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  297. The recommendations at the end of the Mother Jones piece make sense, although it’s unclear whether they’d make any difference.

    Along similar lines, I always thought it was smart how the Israelis report terror attacks.

    They never say that some group “claimed responsibility,” they say “claimed guilt”.

    Dave (445e97)

  298. There were two Dave Jones in my HS. Dave B and Dave E. I always thought that was funny. Maybe I was the only one.

    Pinandpuller (7381a5)

  299. http://military.wikia.com/wiki/HMS_Rawalpindi

    HMS Rawalpindi

    While patrolling north of the Faroe Islands on 23 November 1939, she investigated a possible enemy sighting, only to find that she had encountered two of the most powerful German warships, the battleships Scharnhorst and Gneisenau conducting a sweep between Iceland and the Faroes. Rawalpindi was able to signal the German ships’ location back to base. Despite being hopelessly outgunned, 60-year old Captain Edward Coverley Kennedy RN of Rawalpindi decided to fight, rather than surrender as demanded by the Germans. He was heard to say “We’ll fight them both, they’ll sink us, and that will be that. Good-bye”.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  300. Did you ever come across Junglefowl? I’d actually like to get some.

    OMG, Darwin was wrong

    Pinandpuller (7381a5)

  301. No.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  302. I guess you got some.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  303. P&P, when is a chicken not a chicken?
    https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/featured/1336322/war-chicken-breeds-halachic-alaysis.html
    The funny thing is that what we call chickens were unknown in biblical and Talmudic times. Chickens and only showed up in medieval times. When Jesus had a cold Mary wouldn’t have known to give him chicken soup.

    kishnevi (07cb64)

  304. I don’t know if you like fiction but if you like the thought of the USS Texas, USS Salem and the USS Des Moines reactivated for service with alien AI integration you might like

    Yellow Eyes

    Pinandpuller (7381a5)

  305. I guess I forgot to mention my locker was next to Dave E Jones.

    Pinandpuller (7381a5)

  306. Chickens and only showed up in medieval times

    I think they showed up earlier.

    they

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  307. I don’t know if you like fiction but if you like the thought of the USS Texas, USS Salem and the USS Des Moines reactivated for service with alien AI integration you might like

    Yellow Eyes

    Pinandpuller (7381a5) — 11/6/2017 @ 8:32 pm

    Who says I don’t like fiction? “The Rabbi slept late.” I said there hasn’t been a good movie since 1968.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  308. @317 kishnevi

    Thanks for that. I’m learning a lot of new words today. Reminds me of the discussions about Pronghorn and antelope and Bison and buffalo.

    Pinandpuller (7381a5)

  309. I take the Rabbinical meaning of predatory birds but I’ve seen chickens eat baby mice like popcorn shrimp. And they claw-spread all the time on Third World bus rides.

    Pinandpuller (7381a5)

  310. Chickens and only showed up in medieval times

    I think they showed up earlier.

    they
    Steve57 (0b1dac) — 11/6/2017 @ 8:42 pm

    Have you played Marco Polo with chickens? Takes a while.

    I’m guessing you know the Polynesian meaning of “polo”.

    Pinandpuller (7381a5)

  311. …I’m learning a lot of new words today. Reminds me of the discussions about Pronghorn and antelope and Bison and buffalo…

    o·le·ag·i·nous

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  312. Jews, help me out.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  313. No actually no I don’t know what chicken means in polynesian.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  314. Kishnevi can you help me out with the Polynesian thingery. Apparently you have a connection.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  315. I need to apologize. I grew up with Jews and sometimes I think I am family when I am not.

    http://valor.militarytimes.com/recipient.php?recipientid=20017

    Valor awards for Aaron Katz.

    https://www.amazon.com/Dawn-Like-Thunder-Torpedo-Squadron/dp/0316056537

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  316. I fear I’m going to give P and P the impression I don’t like fiction.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  317. I went and found the book. It was on the dining room table.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  318. This is the outfit mentioned above. Kind of like Igi or palladinos shop

    http://www.globes.co.il/en/article-black-
    cube-the-mossad-style-business-intelligence-company-1001183611

    narciso (d1f714)

  319. @328 Steve57

    I was thinking ungulates, but that’s a good one too.

    While cetaceans were historically thought to have descended from mesonychids, molecular evidence supports them as a relative of Artiodactyls (even-toed ungulates). Cetaceans belong to the order Cetartiodactyla (formed by combining Cetacea + Artiodactyla) and their closest living relatives are hippopotamuses and other hoofed mammals (camels, pigs, and ruminants), having diverged about 50 million years ago.

    Pigs got blowholes?

    Pinandpuller (7381a5)

  320. Hint: The Polynesian word polo is somewhat related to another word for rooster. Most guys no quiere el pico de eso gallo.

    Pinandpuller (7381a5)

  321. I am somewhat impressionable.

    Next time I lose something I’m going to start looking for it on Steve’s table. Some kind of Dirk Gently strategy.

    Pinandpuller (7381a5)

  322. Chickens feature prominently in Classical history, literature and culture. Without looking it up, in Aristophanes’ “The Birds”; the drowning of the sacred chickens of Rome by Publius Claudius Pulcher during the Punic Wars; and the Roman dining tradition of “eggs to apples”. Admittedly, they are not the ideal animal to herd in the Sinai, but it’s not possible that they were unknown to Jews any later than 600 BC.

    nk (dbc370)

  323. Speaking of Impressionism, there were surprising amounts of South Sea women imported into Wyoming to work in convenience stores. Tongans, Samoans, Tahitians and Fijians. Who says you can’t paint them all with the same brush?

    Pinandpuller (7381a5)

  324. @340 nk

    Weren’t chickens the famous auguries that wouldn’t eat before the great sea battle?

    “Then let’s see if they will drink!”

    Mic drop

    Pinandpuller (7381a5)

  325. I’d say you can draw a line from Mt Ararat to Malaysia and maybe a few chickens fell off a cart along the way.

    Pinandpuller (7381a5)

  326. Yes, that was Publius Claudius Pulcher.

    nk (dbc370)

  327. At one point I had an aquarium fish called the pelvichromis pulcher .

    Some girl in Latin class wondered how I knew it meant beautiful. Well, it was also three pages ahead.

    Pinandpuller (7381a5)

  328. Some girl in Latin class. OK.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  329. 286. What does Nihingo refer to?

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73)

  330. EXPERT!

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  331. What does Nihingo refer to?
    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73) — 11/7/2017 @ 1:05 am

    gaijun

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  332. In the Virginia governor’s race, which fortunately I don’t have to vote in, I actually hate both candidates. A victory by either one will be bad for U.S. politics.

    Do you want demonizing of illegal aliens, and an end to equal justice under law, or do you want scaring African Americans that the Republicans are going to kill them?

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73)

  333. That’s not a loaded question, sammeh.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  334. so the incompetent US Air Force recruited a loser-assed psycho and then unleashed a killer on a small Texas town

    good job flyboys

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  335. 350… I want the stupider crazier Democrat Party to keep heading in the going-over-a-cliff direction, Sammy!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  336. “There were two Dave Jones in my HS. Dave B and Dave E. I always thought that was funny. Maybe I was the only one.”

    I bet Dave E.’s locker was a popular gathering spot.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  337. Never forget that when George W Bush ran into massive resistance attempting to nominate crony Harriet Miers to the Supreme Court it was Ed Gillespie who insulted her detractors by taking a page from the leftist smear list to claim that Republican opposition to Miers was rooted in fear of strong and accomplished women.

    Gillespie lacks the spine to hold high office, but better a smarmy GOP jellyfish than a another member of the crooked traitors jackass party.

    ropelight (e67740)

  338. Gillespie is an organization politician. So is the other.

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73)

  339. 350. The Democratic party is too cowardly to make arguments against evil that can sound good, and insead accuse the Republicans of a different kind of evil than they are actually doing.

    I think that ad (intended to remind people of Charlottsville) wasn’t just or even mainly aimed at blacks – it was aimed at liberals or Bernie supporters – anyone who join a demonstration anywhere – and it was saying: The Republicans are coming to kill you.

    Now, thats not true. They only want to kill citizens of other countries who need medical attention that can only be gotten in the USA.

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73)

  340. They only want to send people who are escaping threats on their life back to where they came from. Because they want to enforce (sporadically of course) all immigration as currently written, and fear of crime is not grounds for asylum.

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73)

  341. Gillespie is a GOP establishment ‘yes man’ who rejected Trump’s offer to campaign for him, he didn’t want his skirts tainted by Trump’s vulgar popularity.

    I don’t vote in Virginia anymore and I’m glad I won’t have to hold my nose and vote for the transplant Jersey jellyfish.

    ropelight (e67740)

  342. Sammy, you’ve got your head so far up your ass, you couldn’t see daylight at noon.

    ropelight (e67740)

  343. Sammy, you’ve got your head so far up your ass, you couldn’t see daylight at noon.

    gropelight (e67740) — 11/7/2017 @ 6:42 am

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  344. Sammeh brings the argument clinic, the tps was temporary because it concerned the storms that affected central America back in the mid 90s

    narciso (d1f714)

  345. I wasn’t specifically talking about the tps, and with them, it may be over, except there are new things, but the practice before the bureaucrats began propagandizing the public over talk radio in 1974 – and even later – was whenever people were paroled into the United States and stayed a couple of years, was for Congress to pass a law authorizing their immigration. It’s crazy to send people away after 29 years.

    And we have Senator Grassley talking about jobs, as if there was a scarcity of jobs or a limit on them (the lump of labor fallacy) while at the same time the Republicans and others are worrying about the percentage of people in the labor force. If there is scarcity of jobs, then the number of people in the labor force an;t expand depending on how many people seek work, or if they get a better education and so on. But in truth economic growth is possible, and one person getting a job doesn’t hinder somebody else getting a job. All economic projections ae based upon hat NOT being true.

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73)

  346. We have too many unskilled people in the workforce, and conversely not enough for those with skills

    narciso (d1f714)

  347. There’s a lot more on he church shooting.

    The Pentagon really had a policy of not adding names to the database unless they got a dishonorable discharge, although the Lautenberg amendment didn’t limit itself to that; the person with a rifle didn’t save anyone in spite of what some people said – he was hearing shots and was too scared to do anything until Kelley came out, and Kelley came out when he thought he had killed everyone – he was shooting anyone who gave signs of life and in particular danger were crying babies; Kelley escaped from a mental institution where he was being held after attempting to brings guns onto base and threatening his superior officers – he was recaptured; he was investigated for rape but the investigation was dropped when he moved out of the state (of Colorado I think); he beat up a dog and was prosecuted; the child whose skull he broke was not his son, but a stepson and while he had admitted the facts he was still appealing something; and he had become a militant atheist the last 2 or 3 years, so much so that many of his friends on Facebook unfriended him.

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73)

  348. narciso (d1f714) — 11/7/2017 @ 8:38 pm

    We have too many unskilled people in the workforce, and conversely not enough for those with skills

    Actually, we don;t have enough unskilled people. They have no unemployment problem. You mean not enough people can get veery well paying jobs.

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73)

  349. Oh that’s supposed to make it better, this is a total screwup sammeh.

    narciso (d1f714)

  350. the person with a rifle didn’t save anyone in spite of what some people said – Actually, who knows where he was fleeing and how much mayhem he was intent on. He certainly could have killed LEO’s trying to capture him.

    the child whose skull he broke was not his son- It probably is easier to break other people’s kids

    and he had become a militant atheist- Sure did

    Sammy Finkelman (69aa73) — 11/7/2017 @ 8:41 pm

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  351. Capt Albert H Brooks looked a lot like LBJ. No offense.

    Pinandpuller (7381a5) — 11/6/2017 @ 7:37 pm

    None taken. But I don’t get your point.

    Captain Rooks went down with his ship. In company, I must add, the Australian cruiser Perth.

    https://www.amazon.com/Ship-Ghosts-Houston-Legendary-Survivors/dp/0553384503

    LBJ got a Silver Star on a mission where he was only an observer. And it was aborted. And none of the assigned aircrew got a medal.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  352. http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/153

    But critics always suspected LBJ had inflated the danger he faced. Now there’s reason to believe they were right. The lone member of the crew still living, Bob Marshall, the gunner, insists the plane never came under fire that day. ‘No way,’ Marshall told CNN.’No, that story was made up, put in there in my mind by the author of the book. ‘Cause we never seen Zero, was never attacked. Nothing.’

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  353. The “gunner.” I don’t know what his position was, but to call him a generic gunner is inaccurate.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  354. He might have been a tail gunner or a waist gunner or a …

    http://www.b26.com/

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  355. …Johnson you’ll recall was awarded the Silver Star for gallantry in the summer of 1942 by Douglas MacArthur. LBJ, then a member of Congress, had persuaded FDR to send him on an inspection tour of our forces in the Pacific. The trip had always seemed like a political stunt by a politician who wanted to burnish his credentials in anticipation of future campaigns for higher office. Johnson, who had been the first congressman after Pearl Harbor to sign up for active military duty, had agreed to fly as an observer on a single bombing mission over Lae, New Guinea. But before the plane could reach the target a generator went out, forcing the pilot to turn back home to base.

    Again, tell me the analogy.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  356. Not a criticism. I don’t expect anyone these days to know jack about LBJ.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)


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