Patterico's Pontifications

9/30/2017

No Matter How You Look At It, It Looks Bad

Filed under: General — Dana @ 10:07 am

[guest post by Dana]

Optics matter. They mattered then, they matter now.

Yesterday, a clearly desperate and distraught Mayor Carmen Yulin Cruz of San Juan, made a plea for help for her ravaged island:

I will do what I never thought I was going to do. I am begging, begging anyone who can hear us to save us from dying. If anybody out there is listening to us, we are dying, and you are killing us with the inefficiency.

So, Mr Trump, I am begging you to take charge and save lives. After all, that is one of the founding principles of the United States of … America. If not, the world will see how we are treated not as second-class citizens but as animals that can be disposed of. Enough is enough.

Since Hurrican Maria devastated the island of Puerto Rico, there has been an ongoing struggle to get relief aid directly to the people because of issues in the supply chain: due to the devastated infrastructure, truckers can’t be reached to transport the aid, roads have crumbled or been blocked as a result of the storm, there is a diesel shortage, and on it goes. In a nutshell, per a shipping company official on the scene, “The problem has been with the logistics, the parts of the supply chain that move the cargo from our terminal to the shelves or to the tables of the people in Puerto Rico. This hurricane was catastrophic.” According to recent reports, 44% of Puerto Ricans do not have fresh drinking water, and it may take months before electricity is restored.

President Trump, who had received fairly good marks for the response in Texas and Florida, could not resist taking the frustrated Cruz’s comments personally instead of taking them with measured grace and understanding. So, in a series of early morning tweets from his golf resort in Bedminster, N.J, the world was reminded of just how small and thin-skinned this president is, and how he makes nearly everything about himself. And in doing so, he took the attention away from the incredible work first responders are doing and put it on himself:

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Following these tweets are several tweets about the amazing work by the first responders, but unfortunately, they got back-burnered so that President Trump could defensively lash out at a mayor who is facing an Herculean task. Also, predictably, the President blamed the “Fake News Networks” too.

In an interview, Cruz explained that her number one goal was to save lives:

“Actually, I was asking for help. I wasn’t saying anything nasty about the president,” Cruz said on MSNBC following the tweets. “It’s not about politics, it’s not about petty comments, it’s about moving forward, putting boots on the ground and saving lives.”

Unfortunately, for this president, being “petty” is exactly what he far too frequently excels in being.

As I’ve said here at this blog many times over since Trump was elected: There is no doubt the media and the Democrats, working in tandem, look for any opportunity to get this president, so for his sake, he should stop giving them so much to work with.

–Dana

470 Responses to “No Matter How You Look At It, It Looks Bad”

  1. Dana wrote this excellent post and was about to publish it when I stepped on her with my stupid post written in two seconds. I insist on publishing this one and I am going to shut down comments on mine and ask them to come here.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  2. Nice balanced piece, d.

    Ben burn (266dcf)

  3. “If anybody out there is listening to us, we are dying, and you are killing us with the inefficiency.”

    This is a forgivable statement, given the circumstances, but not an accurate one.

    Frederick (a81afc)

  4. why is mayor trigglypuff all up in msnbc while puerto ricans are dying

    this is genocide

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  5. Responding to Frederick from The Jackass post since those comments are closed:

    The military knows how to handle disasters like this and can act quickly with many resources. And, in fact, the DOD is now sending more resources including planes and helicopters. I doubt they will only help “at the edges.”

    By the way, isn’t it inefficient to have too few resources? Are you saying the DOD should not send in these resources because they aren’t needed?

    DRJ (15874d)

  6. Americans, in general, don’t appreciate it when their efforts to help are characterized as “killing us with the inefficiency” and “treated not as second-class citizens but as animals that can be disposed of”.

    This is the sort of thing that makes the American public want to wash its hands of the rest of the world; especially hard to take from Puerto Rico.

    Forgivable, yes, but not accurate and not fair. Enough comments like this, and a lot of mainland Americans will want to rethink our relationship with Puerto Rico. If we’re so awful to them, then independence seems like its overdue.

    Frederick (a81afc)

  7. history much?

    this post ignores what happened when the hapless George W. Bush took crass inflammatory “animals that can be disposed of” style comments with measured grace and understanding

    completely and blithely ignores it in an opportunistic rush to smear the president

    thank God America Reese’s Pumpkins though President Trump understands the sick opportunistic game Mayor Trigglypuff’s playing here

    he’s a great man and he’s gonna take care of business down there on that benighted lil island in spite of how crass shameless and extortionary they are why because they’re Americans

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  8. @DRJ:Are you saying the DOD should not send in these resources because they aren’t needed?

    I’m saying that there are limits to what can be done with those resources, and too much at one time can be as bad as not enough, because those people need to supported, and they can’t be supported without infrastructure, they just become another burden.

    You can work from the outside in, is all. The more you do, the more you can do. At the beginning it’s going to be slow.

    Frederick (a81afc)

  9. A lot of hard work and tax-payer money will go into this rebuild. A third of the P.R. population works for the govt.
    With all the Puerto Ricans leaving on cruise ships to get asylum EBT in the U.S.A who in hell is going to clean this up?

    mg (31009b)

  10. “At the beginning it’s going to be slow.”

    Because it’s an island?

    Ben burn (266dcf)

  11. Surrounded by an obstacle called ‘water ‘

    Ben burn (266dcf)

  12. @DRJ: “at the edges,” I should clarify, refers to the “edges” of the problem, not the actual coastline of the island.

    The places where there is still a little something are the places where you start. Picture a sort of Swiss cheese where there are pockets of Puerto Rico still functioning. Helicopters can help get things there, but they can’t do much for the places outside the pockets. The pockets have to be expanded from within. As the pockets get bigger, more help can be sent to make them bigger yet. An exponential process, but it starts slow. Dumping too much into a pocket, more than it can accept, makes the problem worse.

    Frederick (a81afc)

  13. With all the Puerto Ricans leaving on cruise ships to get asylum EBT in the U.S.A who in hell is going to clean this up?

    i want to be in america everything’s free in america

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  14. I don’t have strong opinions about this woman like I am supposed to. She may or may not be hyperbolic but I’m going to cut her some slack because her island seems to be in a desperate situation. I have not followed all of this closely enough to form an opinion as to whether the federal government’s response is inadequate, but I do know that Trump was spending a lot of time talking about the [expletive deleted] NFL and the [expletive deleted} national anthem at a time when maybe he could have shut his [expletive deleted] trap for once and try to resemble a semi-mature person for just a day or two. Whether any of that has graver consequences than moronic optics I don’t know. These folks are Americans so let’s just do what we can to get them help.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  15. logistics are logistics

    it’s one of the few things our incompetent and overpriced military is actually decently good at

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  16. Because she mistakes talking to maddow and vanderbilt with action, has she been in communication with general Buchanan, who is running the operation?

    narciso (d1f714)

  17. Next time Trump had better send the military or cruise ships in for mandatory evacuation days in advance to save their azz.

    mg (31009b)

  18. I wish I had been as good at excuse-making for Barack as y’all are for Trump

    Ben burn (266dcf)

  19. yeah you wish

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  20. If we have to rebuild the slums of Puerto Rico up to U.S. Building codes – It will cost three fortunes.

    mg (31009b)

  21. I wonder if General Kelly even mentioned this hurricane to Trump?

    mg (31009b)

  22. A more balanced view, alas it doesn’t fit on a tea shirt

    https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-09-30/no-trump-didn-t-botch-the-puerto-rico-crisis

    narciso (d1f714)

  23. Thaaaannnk you, mg at 21…its possible the Kelly – Luis Gutierrez beef led the general to slow-foot a lot of communications and commands.

    urbanleftbehind (ae66bf)

  24. thanks narciso @22

    mg (31009b)

  25. How dangerous and willing to help would a spry Hugo Chavez would have been with 4 dollar oil at his sails.

    urbanleftbehind (ae66bf)

  26. Should be much more than our federal government pitching in to assist. Hopefully, the Catholic Church and others are helping with this, it’s an enormous task… immediate assistance and then the Feds focus on infrastructure work. I wonder if the Puerto Ricans and politicians who pushed to shut down our military base on Vieques regret that now?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  27. I’ll buy a one way ticket for beenburned if he’d like to pitch in and focus the energy he spends running his mouth on something more productive.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  28. Funny you say that, ulb:
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vargas_tragedy

    Sean Penn and Danny glove were not available to comment

    narciso (d1f714)

  29. Did Luis make bail?

    mg (31009b)

  30. That might be their only salvation, becoming the willing Seoul of the carribean.

    urbanleftbehind (ae66bf)

  31. they had it made
    kick us out
    genocide

    mg (31009b)

  32. Again, as dear leader has suggested, the ‘optics’ reign supreme with each daily disaster. In spite of all Trumps preparedness and responsible governance of disaster relief, Puerto Rico is largely Hispanic and that optic remains.

    Ben burn (266dcf)

  33. That’s a group that had been sufficiently cowed by a gay Pakistani gunman into splitting their vote last year, but now…

    urbanleftbehind (ae66bf)

  34. Sen. Clinton in Puerto Rico in support of Vieques protesters

    New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton arrived in Puerto Rico on Saturday to visit environmental activist Robert F. Kennedy and a New York labor leader jailed for protests against Navy bombing on Vieques island.

    Clinton has said her one-day visit is a “gesture of solidarity” with protesters.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  35. I’m wagering that they knew how fragile that infrastructure was, as we discover with the port Arthur facility, grenfell towers etc.

    narciso (d1f714)

  36. @ happyfeet,

    this post ignores what happened when the hapless George W. Bush took crass inflammatory “animals that can be disposed of” style comments with measured grace and understanding

    completely and blithely ignores it in an opportunistic rush to smear the president

    Happyfeet, I don’t care who the president is. If he makes this about himself and and can’t keep his childish mouth shut during the aftermath of a devastating disaster, he deserves the criticism. It’s not like Trump hasn’t seen the fallout when he refused to bridle his tongue on previous occasions. He’s a grown man, for God sake, let’s let him assume responsibility for that which he freely chooses to do, shall we? He chose to unnecessarily provide red meat to the circling sharks.

    Also, I am not intentionally ignoring anything with this post. I’m just not going to play your whataboutism game because I don’t care. Trump is the president now. And Trump owns anything that he does. As I’ve repeatedly stated, the quest of the MSM and Dems to use any opportunity against a Republican president is nothing new, as you’ve also indirectly pointed out with your Bush comparison. So, because it’s a well known fact that R presidents will be under constant attack, that just makes Trump dumb to not heed the very clearly posted warning signs, no? He should ask himself these two questions before he pulls the Twitter trigger: Is it necessary for me to say this, and will this help people? More often than not, the answer will be no.

    Dana (023079)

  37. Hendrix’s remarks about the Comfort drives home the point that disaster response readiness a good reason to keep the Navy well funded.

    felipe (023cc9)

  38. These folks are Americans so let’s just do what we can to get them help.
    Patterico (115b1f) — 9/30/2017 @ 10:33 am

    Yes, they are Americans. They are family. I am US Navy, blue to the bone. When Kim threatens Guam I’ve got family there. These are no distant strangers. Ask me about the Philippines. And, while you’re at it, Puerto Rico.

    The Kearsarge ESG is delivering supplies right now. You should all genuflect to the mighty, mighty US Navy.

    Which the leftards are working to ruin.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  39. you are killing us with the inefficiency.

    Bese mi culo, peja.

    nk (dbc370)

  40. After Katrina, I don’t put any faith in anything a Democrat in those American Bangladeshes says.

    nk (dbc370)

  41. So you want to be a d***. That’s fine, too.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  42. Semper Fi, Squids.

    Ben burn (266dcf)

  43. @ narciso,

    A more balanced view, alas it doesn’t fit on a tea shirt

    https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-09-30/no-trump-didn-t-botch-the-puerto-rico-crisis

    If this is directed at me and my post, I don’t thinks it’s fitting. The post is not criticizing the administration’s response to the disaster. It’s criticizing Trump for once again undoing goodwill with the public because he is in able to stop taking everything personally, making it about himself, and not keeping his yap shut. A number of articles I’ve read, including yours, are positive about the response and make clear to point out the on-the-ground difficulties of getting aid into the hands of the people.

    Unfortunately, no matter how well the disaster has been responded to, the president himself has just taken attention from that and put it back on himself. Shame on him.

    Dana (023079)

  44. Your post is fine, Dana. My quarrel is with La Senora Alcaldesa. Are those pallets of water behind her while she’s complaining that people don’t have clean water to drink? Maybe she wants us to parachute in some waiters and busboys to pour their water for them?

    nk (dbc370)

  45. it’s a tendentious and unsupported characterization to say Mr. President Trump is making this “about himself”

    that’s not what the tweets say

    these incisive tweets challenge Mayor Trigglypuff’s nasty and childish assertions that the United States of America is killing american citizens with “inefficiency” and treating them like “second-class animals” and plotting “genocide” on them – assertions that she asked the sleazy CNN Jake Tapper fake news propaganda sluts to broadcast “all over the world”

    this idea that America should allow such calumny to be broadcast “with measured grace and understanding” is frankly not a supportable contention

    (and especially unsupportable knowing as we do what happened when the deeply incompetent Bush administration allowed this exact narrative to propagate unchallenged)

    Mayor Trigglypuff’s insane rantings are dangerous – dangerous to the puerto rican people (read comment #6 carefully) and a gift to the sneaky russians and the dirty chinesers and the filthy CNN Jake Tapper media who seek to destabilize America and degrade her standing in the world

    however sleazy corrupt incompetent and shameful the US Military has become, it is *not* an instrument of puerto rican genocide

    period full stop

    and good on President Trump for not letting that pass unremarked

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  46. The Mayor was apparently OK when “her people” were bombing the mainland.

    http://dailycaller.com/2017/09/30/san-juan-mayor-praised-convicted-faln-terrorist/

    “Hello, San Juan. Freedom forOscar Lopez Rivera.. soon he will be with us. We have to thank every Puerto Rican man and woman, who for a long time, many of us didn’t know Oscar Lopez Rivera. He was fighting the fight,” she said.

    “We’re going to give you more details when we welcome this great Puerto Rican patriot in a cause that unites us and to know that, in spite of our differences, we can do big things in this country,” she continued.

    Yulin Cruz added, “This great celebration is going to be in the streets and it is going to be extraordinarily large. So do come by starting Thursday to celebrate what our hearts scream for. Thanks, President Obama. Long live Oscar Lopez Rivera.”

    Lopez Rivera was sentenced to 35 years in prison for his involvement in the FALN, a Puerto Rican separatist group that was responsible for more than 100 bombings in the U.S. during the 1970s and 1980s.

    Four people lost their lives in 1975 when an explosion happened at Fraunces Tavern in New York City, an attack the FALN was responsible for. The organization was also responsible for seriously injuring three NYPD officers in several bomb attacks on New Year’s Eve in 1982.

    If the mayor wants a sugar daddy to do all of the heavy lifting for her–Fine:

    I will do what I never thought I was going to do. I am begging, begging anyone who can hear us to save us from dying. If anybody out there is listening to us, we are dying, and you are killing us with the inefficiency.

    So, Mr Trump, I am begging you to take charge and save lives. After all, that is one of the founding principles of the United States of … America. If not, the world will see how we are treated not as second-class citizens but as animals that can be disposed of. Enough is enough.

    Otherwise, if she wants an independent Puerto Rico–Have at it.

    https://panampost.com/frank-worley-lopez/2015/07/29/cut-the-government-workforce-or-wither-puerto-rico/

    For example, the governor has pointed out that Puerto Ricans enjoy 30 days of paid vacation every year, 18 sick days, and 14 paid holidays. That amounts to more than two months of annual paid leave for every employee. That is great for employees, but bad for business, which in turn, is bad for jobs.
    ….
    For starters, of the 900,000 people who have jobs in Puerto Rico, roughly 300,000 work for government.

    The government is corrupt in Puerto Rico. Mayor Carmen Yulin Cruz of San Juan is a “leader” in that government.

    BfC (5517e8)

  47. See, happyfeet, you can say something I agree with 100% when you try. I mean your comment #47.

    nk (dbc370)

  48. :)

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  49. See, happyfeet, you can say something I agree with 100% when you try. I mean your comment #47.

    I curse nk for making me click on a muted happyfeet comment.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  50. My uncle Tony, at the close of WWII, pulled into Napoli. Naples fore the ignorant. And encountered a who loved Americans. Who couldn’t stop boasting about loving Americans. Yet he kept saying “Merde de Can.” If you say it fast enough it sounds like “American.” But in the dialect it means “dog s***.”

    My uncle Tony delivered exactly what the guy was asking for.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  51. I brought it up, because it included some areas of improvement.

    Anyways seeing as the us got is the only dependable form of assuatance, pit bill and mark Cuban notwithstandigly, it seems like foolish grandstanding.

    narciso (d1f714)

  52. Happy feet,

    Do you think there was a more effective manner in which Trump could have pushed back? And do you believe his pushback was rooted in defending the efforts of the many, or was it about defending himself personally?

    Dana (023079)

  53. Dana,

    Do you think the Mayor of San Juan could have been a bit more circumspect regarding her praise for a bombing wounding&killing Americans/civilian wounding/cop wounding/cop killing terrorist organization in the beginning of 2017?
    https://www.britannica.com/topic/FALN

    The FALN first surfaced on October 26, 1974, when five large bombs exploded in Manhattan—in the Wall Street area, in Rockefeller Center, and on Park Avenue—causing considerable property damage but no injuries. The FALN claimed responsibility for these acts, as it did later for bombings in Puerto Rico. Throughout the following year, the FALN boasted of a series of bombings, beginning on January 24 with a Wall Street explosion that killed four people and injured more than 50 and climaxing on October 27 with nine nearly simultaneous explosions in New York City, Washington, and Chicago that produced only property damage. Bombings continued sporadically thereafter.

    -BfC

    BfC (5517e8)

  54. So is Leftist trigglypuff Mayor going to distribute all the water and food stacked around her or is that all just for her and her fellow Leftist elites?

    Sandra (5b76ae)

  55. judging from this thread Dana I’d say President Trump sparked the exact conversation that was needed

    this was effective, what he did

    and shamefully, it was entirely necessary, but that’s on Mayor Trigglypuff

    but now it is time to do halps on the puerto rican peoples!

    folks see how your trigglypuff mayor is bogarting the goya?

    first thing to do is shove her ample ass out the way, rise up, and take your share!

    but it looks like we have quite a selection of tasty goya products, and this can be very confusing

    the discerning puerto rican will be he who makes a bee-line for the refried beans!

    there’s so much you can do with refried beans – bean dip or burritos or tacos or chalupas et cetera – you know this of course (you’re poor), but you may not know about happyfeet’s tasty soup in which the refried bean is the star ingredient

    here’s a reasonably close recipe

    what’s great about this soup is you can make it all in one skillet, if you have a deep one not just a frying pan what you can salvage from the ruins of your storm-tossed hovel – otherwise your regular soup pot is fine

    first do the bacons – if you do not have bacons, this is clearly genocide, so shriek like a tranny what had her hormones taken away until the United States Military brings you some bacons

    as prep you may or may not want the chicken stock or broth but you can get by without – i use a shelf-stable consomme mix which i have because I am prepared for hurricanes unlike you and I do 4 cups – this recipe says two cups and that’s ridiculous – you want to fill up your skillet – you can always simmer it down if you need to

    then you want to saute your chipper-choppered celery and onions in the bacon grease – i use a full cup of each

    the spices listed are correct – oregano and garlic and chili powder, but the portions are ridiculously fussy so let’s say add all three to taste – but do NOT add salt that would be unwise

    skip the cilantro, salsa, and tortilla chips

    it’s refried bean soup for christ’s sake you don’t have to try and make more of it than what it is, and if you want a splash of acidic serve with lime wedges what people can add as they see fit

    so you add the refried beans in with the sautee and let them warm up and yes let them actually cook for a bit as you combine them with the sautee

    then add the water and spice and whatever else – it’s a marvelously flexible recipe

    adding a bit of cheese or even evaporated milk is a nice way to punch up the texture, but add this last so you don’t muck up your family’s remaining cookware

    now remember our motto: no green is obscene!

    and a hearty peasant soup like this wants for some hearty peasant greens

    so chop up some collard greens or turnip greens or whatever grandma says is edible growing out back or by that providential creek Mayor Trigglypuff was talking about

    you don’t want to cook them but you can blanch them if you must

    just sprinkle a handful into a bowl and ladle the soup over them and then use some as garnish as well – this will balance the soup nicely as well as fortify you for the activities one does on a remote island what is surrounded by water

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  56. When Trump is specifically named in this illogical rant by the Mayor, he can’t be blamed as the one making it personal. Pin that one on Mayor Helpless.

    tom swift (ecaa8f)

  57. Do you think there was a more effective manner in which Trump could have pushed back?

    Do I think there was a more effective manner in which to push back? Certainly. For Trump? Probably not.

    Perhaps landing 50,000 troops in San Juan would make the Mayor feel better, but I’m thinking not. She’s just attempting to make ANY criti9cism of her handling of this Trump’s fault. And it’s surprisingly east to do.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  58. *easy

    Kevin M (752a26)

  59. There is no doubt Mayor Cruz is a leftist. She also made derogatory comments about the response. My point is, President Trump had a moment to react with dignity and compassion knowing that the mayor is in a bit of dire straits at the moment. This is not the time to lash out at her. It takes the attention off of the good work being done by good people on behalf of Puerto Rico. While the conversation may need to had, I don’t believe during a horrible aftermath is the optimum moment. As I stated in the post: optics matter.

    People can criticize Mayor Cruz and her politics all they want, and I likely would agree. But with regard to the post, it’s not about her and her politics, it’s about how the President of the United States’ responded to a desperate mayor’s words. Is this really the time to push back, and is the manner in which Trump did, the most effective way to represent himself and his administration before the world? I think not on both accounts.

    According to FEMA’s twitter feed: “More than 11,800 federal staff representing 36 depts and agencies are on the ground in PR and USVI, including 800+ FEMA personnel.” How about POTUS simply tweet that, how about a tweetstorm with nothing but all the numbers of first responders, the donations that have been made to aid groups, the number of volunteers giving up their time, all on behalf of Puerto Rico? How about pushing back by pushing the positive facts, which are irrefutable and speak volumes? How about not attacking the mayor personally? Just a thought.

    Dana (023079)

  60. oh, god, a wall of happytext. My metaphorator will overload.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  61. It takes the attention off of the good work being done by good people on behalf of Puerto Rico.

    ok

    how is this post different in this respect than what you allege President Trump’s reaction to Mayor Trigglypuff’s intemperate rant to have been?

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  62. oh, god, a wall of happytext. My metaphorator will overload.

    this was hurtful for me to read

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  63. Dana,

    The mayor isn’t asking for help. She’s blaming Trump for all her problems so that her constituents don’t blame her. Trump is simply making it hard to see who the bad guy is. Pretty sure she used some of the words she did to goad him — goading Trump is now part of the Democrat playbook. As it should be, I guess.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  64. Perhaps President Trump should have just cut to the chase, and simply pointed Mayor Cruz (and the public) to the FEMA Twitter page, where they are providing regular Hurricane Maria relief updates, making it very clear that immense efforts are being made to bring relief to the residents.

    Dana (023079)

  65. She is no doubt doing that, Kevin M., but so what? President Trump is the most powerful person there is, so it would be wise for him to start understanding how to wisely wield that power and generate some support for him. He has a bad habit of getting in the way of his own good press.

    Dana (023079)

  66. fema fema foo where are you we got some work to do now

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  67. “goading Trump..”

    If only that weren’t so easily done.

    Ben burn (266dcf)

  68. If only he were emotionally secure..

    Ben burn (266dcf)

  69. i love how in those pictures on the fema twitter almost all the uniform people are covering up their tattoos

    very classy except for just one guy and he looks to belong to the local popo

    optics do indeed matter

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  70. it would be wise for him to start understanding how to wisely wield that power and generate some support for him. He has a bad habit of getting in the way of his own good press.

    Well, yes, but leopards and spots.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  71. If only that weren’t so easily done.

    I am surprised that Hillary was unable to do that in debate. One meltdown was all she needed.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  72. Off-topic: I was reminded that I had hyperbolically claimed during the primaries that Trump’s supporters were so welded to him that he could come out against FOOTBALL and they’d not bat an eye.

    And now he has and *I* agree with him. F!

    Kevin M (752a26)

  73. love it

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  74. What arrogance by mayor dip sh^t wearing a disgraceful ad across her breasts. Only a commie democrap could stoop to that level.

    mg (31009b)

  75. No, that’s not how those people think. When they scream at you, you have to scream back. If you respond reasonably, they think they’ve got you cowed and they will try to take your wallet.

    nk (dbc370)

  76. People forget we don’t have a president hell bent on bending over and enjoying it.

    mg (31009b)

  77. Chick Fil-a still around…ditto NFL.

    Minority squeaky-wheels make noise like Vikings with wooden swords..do little real damage.

    Ben burn (266dcf)

  78. If her number one priority is saving lives then she shouldn’t be praising terrorists…..

    This is not disagreeing with her politics, this is condemning her past actions and giving no regard for her current agitprop complaints.

    Full disclosure, I lived in Puerto Rico over a year on a couple projects, the people in charge and on the radio curse the United States daily and say it should have no say in what the people of the island do……all while demanding even more US financial support.

    An island that should be paradise is in reality a dysfunctional craphole covered in garbage….except for the privately-owned tourist destinations.

    Remember a few years back when Bush sent an aircraft carrier to assist at a devastated area and the media ridiculed him on how inept and tone deaf that was, that the last thing the people needed was a mobile air wing?

    When it was pointed out that aircraft carriers had huge water purification and medical facilities, instead of praising the move they just crawled back under their rocks.

    harkin (d40afa)

  79. What must drive Alinskyites nuts is that it’s a very bad idea to try to make Trump live up to his own book of rules. (That’s Alinsky Rule 4.) 😉

    nk (dbc370)

  80. This story makes it seem that Trump doesn’t mind toying with people’s lives to protect his image, even if it means a bad outcome for some Puerto Ricans. Who could have seen that coming?

    “[W]hen people treat me badly or unfairly or try to take advantage of me, my general attitude, all my life, has been to fight back very hard. The risk is you’ll make a bad situation worse, and I certainly don’t recommend this approach to everyone. But my experience is that if you’re fighting for something you believe in — even if it means alienating some people along the way — things usually work out for the best in the end.”

    Bad luck for Puerto Rico that it has to primarily depend on government to help. That’s always a bad bet, no matter who is in office, but especially when the President is as thin-skinned as Trump.

    DRJ (15874d)

  81. Here is what Pres Bush did with Katrina:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_government_response_to_Hurricane_Katrina

    President Bush signed a $10.5 billion relief package within four days of the hurricane,[7] and ordered 7,200 active-duty troops to assist with relief efforts.[8] However, some members of the United States Congress charged that the relief efforts were slow because most of the affected areas were poor.[9] There was also concern that many National Guard units were short staffed in surrounding states because some units were deployed overseas and local recruiting efforts in schools and the community had been hampered making reserves less than ideal.[10]

    And here is what the “locals” said:

    Due to the slow response to the hurricane, New Orleans’s top emergency management official called the effort a “national disgrace” and questioned when reinforcements would actually reach the increasingly desperate city.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/corrupt-n-o-mayor-added-post-katrina-woe-article-1.2327296

    Nagin cut an impressive swath as mayor — muscled, bald and polished. He would “Ray-Ray” folks, strolling through tense situations with a line of ready patter and a practiced swagger.
    But he was so aggressively ineffectual that even primary patron Reiss was ready to dump him. Then the hurricane hit, and Nagin went off the deep end.
    President George W. Bush, whose failure to respond to the disaster incited a backlash, was finally blowing into town five days after Katrina. He needed the mayor to be his friend, or at least appear friendly.
    Nagin enjoyed a long shower on Air Force One before showing up at the conference table wild-eyed and trembling.
    Still, Bush got the picture he needed, his arm slung around Nagin’s shoulder. It was the beginning of a beautiful friendship.
    It lasted even as Nagin got flirty with Louis Farrakhan.
    Ten days after the flood, with New Orleans still under water, the mayor persuaded a utility company CEO to whisk the Nagins off to Dallas in a private jet.
    Many wealthy New Orleans residents retreated there after the storm.
    Nagin was fresh from an appearance on “Oprah,” where he spewed phony hysteria about Superdome atrocities. It was the beginning of a disastrous media tour.
    In the Dallas airport on the return trip, he squeezed in a lovely chat with Farrakhan. The Nation of Islam leader floated the possibility that the levees had been bombed.
    Rather than loudly say no, Nagin fudged things a bit. He then hurried home to have dinner with Bush.
    The mayor was on a roll.
    Nagin was living his very particular — some would say peculiar — dream. Shortly after Katrina hit, Nagin feverishly told an aide that he finally knew God’s plan for him: to “rebuild a new New Orleans.”
    In 2006, facing a reelection campaign, Nagin sought divine intervention. He opened his remarks at a Martin Luther King Day celebration, declaring that he spoke just that morning with the slain civil rights leader.
    While the great Rev. King didn’t come right out and say it, it seemed he wanted Nagin reelected.
    Nagin then boldly declared it was time to rebuild “a chocolate New Orleans.”

    Can you please provide me some quotes regarding “President Bush attacks Ray Nagin”?
    Delays do to the constitution and interpetations (plus State and Local governments are responsible for first responses in storms:
    http://www.mdchhs.com/federal-disaster-response-legislative-reforms-since-katrina/

    Perhaps the primary reason for the delayed federal action was the President’s perceived lack of constitutional and statutory authority to assume command of the response by the National Guard or to override Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco’s refusal to allow a unified command structure for active duty federal troops and the National Guard. That perception resulted from a narrow interpretation of both constitutional principles and the Posse Comitatus Act, which prohibits the use of the federal military to enforce domestic laws in most cases. In 2006, to resolve this lingering uncertainty, President Bush urged Congress to enact the Warner Amendment to the Insurrection Act. This Amendment granted the President explicit authority to employ federal troops to “restore public order and enforce the laws of the United States”[2] without the consent of the affected state to respond to a major disaster or emergency. The Warner Amendment was subsequently repealed in 2008, as it faced much opposition having arguably represented an unjustified expansion of presidential power.

    Pres. Bush did things so that the next response(s) would move better.

    Pres. Bush acted “presidential” and got attacked (he rarely ever defended himself against these types of attacks). So, now we get Pres. Trump who does respond to attacks (for better or for worst).

    And from Pres. Trump’s response, he was defending the many per your own quote of his tweets: “10,000 Federal workers now on Island doing a fantastic job.”

    And where are those 300,000 Puerto Rican government workers? On vacation/leave?

    BfC (5517e8)

  82. “On results: “You can’t con people, at least not for long. You can create excitement, you can do wonderful promotion and get all kinds of press, and you can throw in a little hyperbole. But if you don’t deliver the goods, people will eventually catch on.”

    ALL the people, or 65%?

    Ben burn (266dcf)

  83. The female mayor nagin had time enough for using a generator to print up t-shirts instead of warming some babies formula.

    mg (31009b)

  84. BFC- their on cruise ships heading to Florida to get on asylum EBT.

    mg (31009b)

  85. Just read the truckers union is stopping drivers from delivering goods. All that stuff is spoiling in those containers. Trump should either declare martial law or pull the fu## out.

    mg (31009b)

  86. After talking about all that the citizens of Puerto Rico were doing to recover, to help themselves, Lt. Gen. Russel Honore said the best thing that could be done to spur recovery is to “give everybody a tank of gas to get the trucks moving, stores opened, streets clean. Until that happens, we’re at a standstill. That would be my recommendation.”

    “What is your reaction to the president’s tweets this morning?”

    “I have no reaction,” he said tersely. “The mayor is living on a cot. I hope the president has a good day “

    Ben burn (266dcf)

  87. why are US Army generals invariably so trashy anymore

    trashy and stupid and arrogant

    i don’t think you can chalk it all up to Obama

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  88. it goes back at least to the execrably low class Colin Powell and sleazy butt-weasel Wesley Clark

    but they weren’t the norm

    now they are

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  89. Petraeus was scum as well. One hand on his typewriter and the other hand on hers.

    mg (31009b)

  90. yeah he had a lot of people fooled for a long time

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  91. 84… the days of the Democrats getting away with their effortlessly evil ways are ending, beenburned. Suck it up, grow a spine and get used to it.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  92. These low life union thugs need to be jailed. Including the breast advertising mayor.

    mg (31009b)

  93. Mg, I thought the Ricans were “aess” people, not breast people.

    urbanleftbehind (ae66bf)

  94. Dana, a question:

    If Trump had his people doing the utmost to get supplies to Puerto Rico and other affected areas, if he knew that an unprecedented effort was under way, and then the recipient of this effort called his effort “genocide”, why shouldn’t he tell her off?

    The only real issue I have is using Twitter (ok, 2, using Trump’s brain, but we’re stuck with that).

    Kevin M (752a26)

  95. The shirts come from San Francisco, likely before all transportation was cut off

    narciso (d1f714)

  96. A fitting punishment for the West Point commie is taking over for Petraus at the Humane Society of his first marriage.

    urbanleftbehind (ae66bf)

  97. Reports are the administration handled much of this pretty well:

    https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-09-30/no-trump-didn-t-botch-the-puerto-rico-crisis

    But NO MATTER WHAT THEY DID the Democrats were going to blame everything on Trump. It’s their remaining raison d’etre. Of course he’s pissed.

    As far as the damage, Puerto Rico’s government is like Detroit’s. “Ineffectual” is the kindest thing you can say. Everything that was destroyed was rotting anyway. It’s not a big fall from “nearly destroyed” to “destroyed.”

    Kevin M (752a26)

  98. People are dying but I am going to play politics on TV. Yikes.

    Mental.

    Poor Biggie (987b85)

  99. And the NeverTrumpers reaction as usual bizarre. Excuse away the degeneracy, inaccuracy and immorality of their position, while lambasting Trump over tweets, that in essence, are accurate.

    Part of our # culture and moral preening of the do nothing class living off the Govt teet.

    Poor Biggie (987b85)

  100. Dana, a question:

    If Trump had his people doing the utmost to get supplies to Puerto Rico and other affected areas, if he knew that an unprecedented effort was under way, and then the recipient of this effort called his effort “genocide”, why shouldn’t he tell her off?

    You didn’t ask me, but I’ll answer. If I were in the Oval Office, I would not make it about me and about whether people were being “nasty to Frey” but about the response and how to make things better. And I wouldn’t be at a [expletive deleted]ing golf club while I took potshots at an official on an island suffering from a catastrophe like this — allowing the media to contrast my kick-back golfing weekend with images like this:

    Patterico (115b1f)

  101. She’s just attempting to make ANY criti9cism of her handling of this Trump’s fault. And it’s surprisingly east to do.

    Actually, logically speaking, no he is not. But when are pathologized with TDS it is simple. Like in the Middle Ages where the Devil was everywhere and everything blamed on the devil.

    Easy, well accepted. Mental. Illogical. Nothing to do with the Devil or Trump.

    Poor Biggie (987b85)

  102. wherever the advertisements fit, urbunleftbehind. I’m sure mayor dip sh^t has a plan.

    mg (31009b)

  103. Politics is more than fair when pressing Politicos Elite. It’s their bowels that need to move and a good emetic is key

    Ben burn (266dcf)

  104. I have a new addition to my comment script. Congrats to Poor Biggie on being #4.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  105. Media was not this upset when Obama golfed after people’s head’s got chopped off.

    Poor Biggie (987b85)

  106. Her people are on strike, they won’t deliver the goods we gave them.

    mg (31009b)

  107. Oh lovely, and a supporter of FALN Terrorists.

    OK, hope she drowns in the water.

    Poor Biggie (987b85)

  108. Paul Krugman retweeted the tweet about Mayor Trigglypuff waddling around in raw sewage with a bullhorn

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  109. Dan McLaughlin has the right of itTrump Charges Into the Democrats’ Trap on Puerto Rico.

    All Trump needed to say was, “She’s a Democratic office-holder and it’s in her political interest to play politics, but we can’t afford to get distracted by partisan name-calling during our rescue efforts.”

    Beldar (fa637a)

  110. Dan McLaughlin says it nicely:

    On the first point: there’s a time and a place for partisan combat, and a tone that the president ought to set even when others are throwing brickbats. People want the man in charge to seem like he’s in charge and focused on helping them, not on his public image or personal feuds. Realistically, there is only so much a president can do in this situation; much of the federal response will be determined by the available assets and challenges, and the president is rarely someone expert in the nuts and bolts of this stuff. But the man in the big chair remains the visible symbol of the relief effort, and he should project that. Moreover, the visual of Trump sparring with a lower-ranking Hispanic woman (San Juan’s Mayor) and more or less accusing Puerto Rican workers of laying about waiting for help just plays into every bad narrative about Trump, and that’s not just bad politics; it undermines the confidence of folks on the ground that Trump actually cares about them.

    The same goes for Trump’s immediate complaints about Puerto Rico’s dysfunctional government and its impact on the island’s water and electrical infrastructure. That’s all true, and it’s a fair part of the story to note that the island was already in a precarious state that made it vulnerable to a disaster like this. But Trump’s bull-in-a-china-shop approach to the question was not the right way at the right time to deliver that message. He’s Puerto Rico’s president, too.

    He notes that Democrats are playing politics, but that doesn’t excuse Trump’s stupid behavior.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  111. Hah. Beldar’s comment and mine were published the same minute.

    Great minds think alike, and sometimes so does mine.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  112. 103… excellent photo opp for teh mayor… well played.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  113. And they don’t give a farthing, she is charging murder by action or indeference, a lesser charge that
    put scalice in the crosshairs.

    narciso (d1f714)

  114. “The more Trump personalizes the story, the more he lets cash-strapped media outlets save money and catch the low-hanging fruit. ”

    Heh. Trumps learning curve is verklempt.

    Ben burn (266dcf)

  115. Trump lovers will seize on what I am about to say, of course — and perhaps give me names to add to my comment blocking script. But I just realized something.

    I probably have a lot more in common with a Democrat who believes in big-government ideas I reject, but who is honest and who angrily rejects the loudmouths, extremists, and assholes on his own side — than I have in common with the dishonest loudmouths, extremists, and assholes on “my” own side.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  116. 103… excellent photo opp for teh mayor… well played.

    It’s a better photo op than playing golf, isn’t it?

    Patterico (115b1f)

  117. Bah, blew the link in #112, it ought have gone here.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  118. Poll:

    The real victim in all this is:

    A) The mayor of San Juan.

    B) Donald Trump.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  119. You got the link right the first time, though, Patterico.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  120. “I probably have a lot more in common with a Democrat who believes in big-government ideas I reject, but who is honest and who angrily rejects the loudmouths, extremists, and assholes on his own side — than I have in common with the dishonest loudmouths, extremists, and assholes on “my” own side.”

    Wouldn’t it be wonderful if we reached an understanding..

    Ben burn (266dcf)

  121. 122: C. People who’ve grown weary of this nonsense.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  122. The lopes rivera supporting sanderista, whose priorities are lgbt and seiu, I suppose there are more extreme figures in public life.

    narciso (d1f714)

  123. God Bless America

    mg (31009b)

  124. World events don’t register w/our Captain until he sees a ‘reality’ the rest of the world sees on the TeeVee. When that’s looped 24/7 by cablers, friend and foe, he plays to the video and audio narrative accordingly for his audience.

    Optics.

    So kudos to San Juan’s Mayor Carmen Yulin Cruz for ‘distracting the dinosaur’ with some flash-and-bang television dramatics of her own to flag our Captain’s attention; like shining a flashlight at a tyrannosaurus rex. As our Captain said, it’s an island. In a big ocean. You can’t drive trucks there. Just like Jurassic Park, eh, sir.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  125. Dan McLaughlin’s been a very butthurt self-professed nevertrump from the very beginning

    of course he’s gonna try to do Katrina all up in it

    just ask yourself what would a CNN Jake Tapper fake news propaganda slut do

    and bam that’s what nevertrump does

    every. single. time.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  126. Forget optics.

    Do you want the California DMV (department of motor vehicles) running your rescue operation, or do you want the military command and infrastructure (with the President as Commander in Chief)?

    If you want a fast/coordinated response–You do not complain about it to the media, you make intelligent & coordinated requests up the chain of command.

    BfC (5517e8)

  127. World events don’t register w/our Captain until he sees a ‘reality’ the rest of the world sees on the TeeVee. When that’s looped 24/7 by cablers, friend and foe, he plays to the video and audio narrative accordingly for his audience.

    This is true.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  128. Apparently the mayor hasn’t made it to the Joint Command Center yet where everybody else is coordinating the common wealth, local and federal response.

    crazy (d99a88)

  129. 119… yes, it certainly is. He should be down there wading thru sewage too. The symbolism must account for something, right? Some people are able to see this as just another attempt to diminish the POTUS. That dog don’t hunt… well maybe it does in Democrat/alt-left circles.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  130. The real victim in all this is:

    the rest of Puerto Rico what’s suffering while Mayor Trigglypuff spends her days colluding with msnbc and accusing the US Military of doing genocide on the puerto rican people who need bacons so they can enjoy some hearty soup

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  131. “World events don’t register w/our Captain until he sees a ‘reality’ the rest of the world sees on the TeeVee. ”

    But he is responsive when he sees his word-of-the-day like “optics”

    Ben burn (266dcf)

  132. Forget optics.

    Do you want the California DMV (department of motor vehicles) running your rescue operation, or do you want the military command and infrastructure (with the President as Commander in Chief)?

    If you want a fast/coordinated response–You do not complain about it to the media, you make intelligent & coordinated requests up the chain of command.

    I’m not so sure. As DCSCDCSCSCA points out, the quickest way to break through Trump’s yippee-dog attention span is through the teevee. If Fox and Friends had covered this days earlier, the Jones Act would have been waived days earlier.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  133. @131. We know our Captain well.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  134. Captain Queeg

    Ben burn (266dcf)

  135. Can’t wait for the Ken Burns version of events.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  136. 119… yes, it certainly is. He should be down there wading thru sewage too. The symbolism must account for something, right? Some people are able to see this as just another attempt to diminish the POTUS. That dog don’t hunt… well maybe it does in Democrat/alt-left circles.

    “Symbolism” is part of the office. It’s why Trump will indeed be visiting Puerto Rico even though that will accomplish nothing. It’s why Bush chose to stop playing golf during a time of war, Obama should not have golfed after James Foley was beheaded, Chris Christie should not have sat his fat ass on a beach that he had closed down or campaigned in New Hampshire while his state faced a giant snowstorm — etc. etc. etc.

    It’s part of the job. Trump is fucking up this part of the job. Maybe because he doesn’t care whether it seems like he cares about Puerto Rico. But to act as though he is entirely blameless in all this ignores political reality. And that’s true in normal circles — not just in Democrat/alt-left circles, whatever alt-left circles are.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  137. i wonder if at any point while she was standing boob-deep in raw sewage talking to a guy in a boat a light bulb maybe went off over her head

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  138. 122: C. People who’ve grown weary of this nonsense.

    I agree. Somehow, though, I think you and I disagree about what “this nonsense” refers to.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  139. Get that red-headed fellow over there, that one there!
    Lt. Keith: Sir, it’s impossible to tell which one is red-headed. They’re all wearing their helmets.
    Lt. Commander Philip Francis Queeg: Keith – you’re an idiot!

    Ben burn (266dcf)

  140. ok Mayor Trigglypuff

    coffee break’s over

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  141. Man I love this script.

    I can tell happyfeet is really excited about something on account of all the comments he is leaving.

    Yet I have no idea what he is saying. And that is pleasant.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  142. “I agree. Somehow, though, I think you and I disagree about what “this nonsense” refers to.”

    Well, let me clarify it then. I’m weary of this putting every day’s events and reactions to them under the microscope. I’m weary of all of the nonsense that has been alleged and willfully reported by people who are ostensibly smart enough to know better and then disappears like it never existed when the gas is let out of the balloon and I’m tired of Trump not growing into the job.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  143. Pres. Trump actually has a bunch of experience dealing with government agencies as a civilian (buildings, resorts, multi-national government experience). And Trump’s own company(ies) employed ~22,000 people (in 2012)–More than are on the island now:

    http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/04/politics/fact-check-trump-small-business/index.html

    And as an example of “getting it done” in New York City:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wollman_Rink

    The rink was closed in 1980 for a proposed two years of renovations at $9.1 million. Six years after the problem-plagued work was still not completed by the city, Donald Trump persuaded Mayor Ed Koch to let him complete the work in four months at $3 million in order to have it open by the end of the year. Trump finished the job in just four months at a final cost 25% below the budget and for no profit. [3][4] Koch initially objected but later agreed. The city had originally planned to employ the resource-saving – but largely untested – chemical compound Freon to generate ice, but instead time-proven brine was used. The rink reopened to the public on November 13, 1986.[5][6]

    Have problems with Trump? He was certainly way down on my list of preferred candidates. But to accuse him of needing “…he quickest way to break through Trump’s yippee-dog attention span is through the teevee…”. There is no proof of that. If that was the only way he got anything done, his companies would have died long ago.

    Trump has also been managing (or letting the military manage) the war with ISIS pretty nicely so far… It seems he can walk and chew gum at the same time.

    Did he push the limits in private life–Yep, sure did. Is he following the law now (like Bush did and Obama did not)–Yep.

    If Trump only deployed resources based on a CNN teevee report from a crack pot Mayor of San Juan, a whole lot more people will die.

    BfC (5517e8)

  144. “whatever alt-left circles are.”

    Just think of them as you did “alt-right”

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  145. The PRs in Chicago love them their coffee breaks, they take 5 a shift and call ICE on their much more productive coworkers during 4 of those breaks.

    urbanleftbehind (ae66bf)

  146. “Blameless in all” what, exactly? Are you saying you don’t think the U.S. has mounted an acceptable response and is providing disaster relief under very difficult circumstances? Just what are you saying other than the usual you don’t like anything about Trump?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  147. TDS is strong pathology.

    I doubt the NeverTrumpers of this world would be able to handle even 1/1000 of the irrational criticism POTUS does.

    Worse yet, they think the Left is doing this because they don’t like the Loudmouth. They, as usual, put aside the last 40 years of history of the Left attacking nice ones and not nice ones yet make excuses for them.

    Well, good news, first they come for the Lawyers. Anyone with two brain cells and knowledge of history knows the Left will consume them in their fire quickly. Hard to get too upset about that when it happens.

    Then they can bathe themselves in virtue for opposing the right cuz they were not nice guys or something all the while having their families destroyed, fortunes eliminated and asses tosses in jail and tortured.

    Poor Biggie (987b85)

  148. “Blameless in all” what, exactly? Are you saying you don’t think the U.S. has mounted an acceptable response and is providing disaster relief under very difficult circumstances? Just what are you saying other than the usual you don’t like anything about Trump?

    I thought what I was saying was pretty clear:

    “Symbolism” is part of the office. It’s why Trump will indeed be visiting Puerto Rico even though that will accomplish nothing. It’s why Bush chose to stop playing golf during a time of war, Obama should not have golfed after James Foley was beheaded, Chris Christie should not have sat his fat ass on a beach that he had closed down or campaigned in New Hampshire while his state faced a giant snowstorm — etc. etc. etc.

    It’s part of the job. Trump is fucking up this part of the job. Maybe because he doesn’t care whether it seems like he cares about Puerto Rico. But to act as though he is entirely blameless in all this ignores political reality. And that’s true in normal circles — not just in Democrat/alt-left circles, whatever alt-left circles are.

    How anyone can read that as a claim about the sufficiency of our response is beyond me. I have already said in this thread that I don’t have enough information to express an opinion about the extent of the response:

    I don’t have strong opinions about this woman like I am supposed to. She may or may not be hyperbolic but I’m going to cut her some slack because her island seems to be in a desperate situation. I have not followed all of this closely enough to form an opinion as to whether the federal government’s response is inadequate, but I do know that Trump was spending a lot of time talking about the [expletive deleted] NFL and the [expletive deleted} national anthem at a time when maybe he could have shut his [expletive deleted] trap for once and try to resemble a semi-mature person for just a day or two. Whether any of that has graver consequences than moronic optics I don’t know. These folks are Americans so let’s just do what we can to get them help.

    That would be what he’s not blameless about, so please do not attribute opinions to me that I am not expressing or I’ll just add you to the ignore list. I don’t intend to spend my valuable time repeatedly reading and responding to distortions of what I write.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  149. I’m weary of all of the nonsense that has been alleged and willfully reported by people who are ostensibly smart enough to know better and then disappears like it never existed when the gas is let out of the balloon and I’m tired of Trump not growing into the job.

    Uh-oh sounds like someone is coming down with a case of TDS.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  150. That mayor ought to be rescued and brought aboard the USS Shinola.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  151. I remember when George Bush was assaulted by the Media with lies for Katrina. This time NeverTrumpers engage in same.

    Always wanted George Bush to speak up and defend himself. Never happened and his second terms imploded quickly as a result.

    Folks here do not understand the Left. That is why they throw down with them to attack Trump.

    Poor Biggie (987b85)

  152. 154… see how much better that reads than “F*ck Trump! He’s the lowest form of human life, etc., etc.”, ad nauseam?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  153. Give the guy a break, Colonel. It’s just been a few months. You think Hillary would be better?

    Patterico (115b1f)

  154. Patterico,

    TDS is not finding Trump a boor. He is and always will be.

    TDS is finding common cause with Leftism cuz you don’t like his style, in spite of the fact he is the only one actually fighting for anything remotely “of the right.” You are a Mitch McConnell type. All talk, no real action and certainly never willing to risk your personal comforts in any material way to do the right thing.

    NeverTrumpers are arm chair generals who bemoan the savagery of war while sipping your scotch and espousing nonsense on how to win the war with low body count. You have admirable intellect but not an ounce of wisdom. Idiocracy which permeates our Graduate Degree Class.

    Poor Biggie (987b85)

  155. Hell, what do I know, I’m just an old white man.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  156. An unvarnished report from the ground on the devastation, federal response and logistical difficulties from a Puerto Rican native and Director of the Joint Air Component Coordination Element.

    “It’s a lack of drivers for the transport trucks, the 18 wheelers. Supplies we have. Trucks we have. There are ships full of supplies, backed up in the ports, waiting to have a vehicle to unload into. However, only 20% of the truck drivers show up to work. These are private citizens in Puerto Rico, paid by companies that are contracted by the government,” says Col. Valle.

    “There should be zero blame on the drivers. They can’t get to work, the infrastructure is destroyed, they can’t get fuel themselves, and they can’t call us for help because there’s no communication. The will of the people of Puerto Rico is off the charts. The truck drivers have families to take care of, many of them have no food or water. They have to take care of their family’s needs before they go off to work, and once they do go, they can’t call home,” explains Col. Valle.

    In one effort to get more drivers out, Governor Ricardo A. Rosselló of Puerto Rico has temporarily waved some hazardous materials requirements for truck transportation. Additionally, some truck drivers from outside the island have been brought in, and more are coming, however it’s not a fix-all. “We get more and more offers to help, but there is no where to stay, we can’t take any more bodies, there’s no where to put them.” Col. Valle says, adding that their “air mobility” is good, and reiterating that getting more supplies or manpower is not the issue.

    When asked three times what else Washington can do to help, or anyone for that matter, three times Col. Valle answered, “It’s going to take time.”

    crazy (d99a88)

  157. I’ll see your sarcasm and raise you a hundred “F*ck Hillary Clinton”s

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  158. Fergit it crazy..its just the ‘optics’.

    Ben burn (266dcf)

  159. I don’t bother raising because I don’t care about her any more.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  160. That much is clear.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  161. Or to put it another way, NeverTrumpers are Lt Daniel Kaffee. Trump supporters are Colonel Nathan Jessup.

    NeverTrumpers are Harry Truman, Architect of the Korea Problem, and Douglas McCarthur Trumpers.

    Gotta break some eggs if you want a nice breakfast.

    We have gone full blown pu$$y amongst our Graduate Degree holders of the “Right.”

    Luckily for the Left, they have not. I admire their crazy. It works. Like Jihadis. It works.

    Poor Biggie (987b85)

  162. HELLO THIS IS YOUR MAYOR

    IF YOU CAN HEAR MY BULLHORN SWIM TO ME

    I HAVE MANY GOYA CANNED FOOD

    HELLO THIS IS YOUR MAYOR

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  163. Add me, don’t add me, it’s all flatulence in the wind anyways.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  164. PB, stop the cribbing of the Intellectual Yet Idiot (IYI) screeds- it’s much better from it’s actual author Nicholas Basin Taleb.

    urbanleftbehind (ae66bf)

  165. That much is clear.

    Said as if there is some reason I should care about Hillary Clinton.

    Did you get the news? Turns out she lost.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  166. It appeArs exactly like the Katrina playbook, and we see how they leveraged those deaths to secure their takeover of congress.

    narciso (d1f714)

  167. #170, Yes, IYI is exactly correct. But hardly cribbing anything. Concept has been along for a long time. Used to call them propeller heads in school. Taleb simply came up with new version of an old moniker. Good for him if it helps him sell books and win admirers.

    Poor Biggie (987b85)

  168. I think Trump should put on his overalls and jump in the water with $100 bills pasted on his person. Have everyone take pictures … maybe hand out some more Medicaid Cards, lord knows half the Island is already on welfare. Might as well make it 75%. And given the Island is destroyed they will have about as much access to quality health care as most Medicaid Beneficiaries have.

    But Trump with the Benjamins and Medicaid Cards …. just raining money. Then maybe the FALN Loving Mayor might shut up, and NeverTrumpers complaining about a man defending himself from the daily smear machine.

    Poor Biggie (987b85)

  169. Did you? Trump is not the person you wanted to see win the White House. The same holds true for most of your readers, including me. However, he did win. And he has been under attack ever since. Some choose to add to the cacophony. Some don’t. Some have learned to shout it, some won’t. But sooner or later baby, here’s a ditty say you’re gonna have to get right down to the real nitty gritty.

    Keepin’ it real… you’ll thank me later.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  170. 172… es la verdad, narciso.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  171. One more added.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  172. Narciso, it was only 4 years, but one hell of an egg fart (Obamacare).

    urbanleftbehind (ae66bf)

  173. You’d think with 50% of the Island on Welfare and 85 Years since the last major hurricane to hit, they would have had some time to prepare. I mean, not like every year about 5-10 storms don’t just jog right past them.

    I dunno, bury the electric lines, reinforce roofing, cut down over grown trees. Like, prepare for what is a statistical certainty.

    But no, Trump’s fault and he best be quiet and not respond. Be like Bush, and let them destroy you. At least Historians and Lawyers will wax poetically of your dignity and decency (and utter failure as POTUS)!!!!!!

    Poor Biggie (987b85)

  174. Put another notch on your cane, Iceberg Slim.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  175. Patterico (115b1f)

  176. I supported Cruz but be real, he would have been swallowed by DC and the Media already. We need savages to conduct this war.

    Poor Biggie (987b85)

  177. If only all the pop psychologist could turn their TDS into billable hours … they’d be rich. Every comma, every adverb and adjective …. windows on the soul and ultimate revelation of his satanic heart.

    Poor Biggie (987b85)

  178. There’s a war going on. What will it take to wake some of us up to that fact?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  179. Well, Trump is a bad guy, of poor moral character, and yet it is still not true that the rest of America is neglecting Puerto Rico, “killing” them, or treating them as “disposable, lower than animals”, and the tweet Patterico posted at 4:07 is not accurate when applied to Puerto Rico. It’s Narrative. There are people who want very much for everyone to believe it is accurate.

    Anyone who cares about what Trump tweets, will find out what the mayor of San Juan said about the people who are doing their best to help her.

    Frederick (a81afc)

  180. I think at least 50% of voting Americans will check out what the USA has mobilized and done for its Territory and the backlog that is Ms. San Juan’s part of the workload and find her unable to un-ass herself and go direct some frickin traffic or something beyond standing in front of pallets of food throwing criticism at the people who paid for the food, shipping and delivery.

    You are all most welcome for the long run-on sentence

    steveg (e8c34d)

  181. #184 Work Camp and Hate Speech Laws for the Right’s Intelligentsia and Legal Class. That might snap them out of it. Worked in Cuban and Venezuela. We are heading that way as we speak — 20-30 years away at the rate we are going.

    Poor Biggie (987b85)

  182. 183

    Psychic dollars are enough.

    Ben burn (266dcf)

  183. The Mayor of San Juan closed down her refugee centers about 5 days ago (apparently–The translation is a bit rough):
    https://www.metro.pr/pr/noticias/2017/09/25/gobernador-arremete-alcaldesa-san-juan-supuesto-cierre-refugios.html (Spanish)
    Google Translate:

    Governor lashes out against mayor of San Juan, of course closure of shelters
    “If she does not want to attend to them, we will attend them,” said Rossello

    SAN JUAN (CyberNews) – Governor Ricardo Rosselló Nevares on Sunday attacked the mayor of San Juan, Carmen Yulin Cruz Soto because he allegedly does not maintain communication with the Central Government and is taking refugees to send them to the Convention Center.
    “This is not happening with other areas of Puerto Rico. We have broad communication with all the mayors and when there is a situation that is worked. But what they are doing is closing without saying a few shelters and sending them here knowingly. Everyone knows that this shelter is for specific cases of medical issue, “Rosselló Nevares told a news conference.
    “But you know what? We are going to receive them here. If she decides to remove them from another place, we will find a place for them to be safe. So all who take out, know that here we are going to receive them and we are going to relocate them where they and their family are safe, “he added.
    Rosselló Nevares mentioned that if there is a problem with shelters in San Juan, what the mayor should do is communicate to look for alternatives.
    “If she does not want to attend to them, we will attend them,” he said.
    On the other hand, the first executive called on the mayors to send representation every day to the Convention Center, so that they constantly update the situation in the city councils.
    He informed that several air routes will be made for the municipalities of Maricao and Las Marías, to bring supplies to these towns that in case the access by road is complicated.

    Regarding Hillary–Somebody should be telling her that she lost the last election (and tell the other such as CNN, Washington Post, et.al.):
    Hillary Clinton Tells Carmen Yulin Cruz “We Are With You” After …Bustle-45 minutes ago
    Clinton calls out Trump administration’s response to Puerto Rico … CNN-Sep 24, 2017
    Clinton pressed Trump to deploy hospital ship Comfort to Puerto …In-Depth-Washington Post-Sep 26, 2017

    BfC (5517e8)

  184. the tweet Patterico posted at 4:07 is not accurate when applied to Puerto Rico. It’s Narrative. There are people who want very much for everyone to believe it is accurate.

    I agree that there is no reason to believe it is actually accurate. That’s not why I posted it. I find the story amazing (and it’s true — it came from the Howard Stern show) — and the absolute narcissism and cluelessness that Trump reveals there . . . that is indeed being replicated in his publicly expressed attitudes about Puerto Rico.

    The way that he, like a psychopath, worries more about the stains on his marble than the human being who stained the marble with his blood — that is quite similar to the way he openly worries more about his image and the idiotic NFL sh!t (which he just tweeted about again the last hour) than he seems to worry about the people of Puerto Rico and their very desperate situation.

    There is certainly a narrative that would be in play no matter what he did. And I have no reason to believe the narrative is actually true. But is Business as Usual for this dumb f*ck to a) play into narratives like this by being the immoral scumbag he is, and b) for his posterior-lickers to defend him over it.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  185. “guy bleeding to death”

    there’s nothing in that story what suggests the guy bled to death and wouldn’t you imagine if the guy *had* bled to death we’d know who it was?

    yes indeed we would

    i admired President Trump’s honesty and self-deprecating charm before i’d heard this story now I love him even more

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  186. @PAtterico:The way that he, like a psychopath, worries more about the stains on his marble than the human being who stained the marble with his blood — that is quite similar to the way he openly worries more about his image and the idiotic NFL sh!t (which he just tweeted about again the last hour) than he seems to worry about the people of Puerto Rico and their very desperate situation.

    All true. But we’re not “killing” them, treating them as “disposable, less than animals”.

    Every frickin’ time we help people, we get our hands bit….

    If people in Puerto Rico really feel that way, okay, we’ll get them through this one. And then they’re better off on their own then subjected to people who treat them as “disposable, less than animals”. Hope they can figure out how to fund their Medicaid expansion.

    Frederick (a81afc)

  187. From CNN transcript:

    FEMA administrator Brock Long defended a series of tweets from President Trump blasting San Juan’s mayor for criticizing the relief efforts following Hurricane Maria.
    In an interview on CNN, Long suggested that Carmen Yulin Cruz, the mayor of Puerto Rico’s capital city, has failed to connect with FEMA command center set up on the island to help with the relief effort.
    “The problem that we have with the mayor unfortunately is that unity of command is ultimately what’s needed to be successful in this response,” Long told CNN’s Fredricka Whitfield.
    “What we need is for the mayor, the good mayor, to make her way to the joint field office and get plugged into what’s going on and be successful,” he continued, adding that, “I think that’s the bottom line on that tweet.”

    In other words, start working and stop giving interviews to make cheap political points.
    Try to get those pallets behind you to the people that need it.
    Organize a bucket brigade passing cans of food and water hand to hand, mobilize and whatever you can.. the deaths in San Juan during the storm are on the Hurricane and after the hurricane, on her. Not Trump, not the mainland people, it is her job to be prepared, but since she is woefully and illfully prepared, her only play is to blame Trump.
    Because the Media and the never Trumpers will reflexively excoriate the President. She’s a useful idiot personified and is up for the “Nagin Award” 2017. The Nagin Award is like the Darwin Award, except the Nagin involves genetic morons killing others rather than themselves

    steveg (e8c34d)

  188. “disposable, less than animals”

    the hoochie mayor was trying to inflame a very bad situation Mr. Frederick for personal political gain

    she’s a very crappy mayor, and also she’s evil

    but President Trump skillfully (and quickly) derailed her attempt to foment America-hate

    good on him he’s a ducky ducky doo

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  189. @169. =Haiku!= Gesundheit!

    “This is Radio Moscow. The air is always fresh and clear in East Berlin.”

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  190. Why don’t you guys get it?

    If you live by ‘optics’ you die by optics.

    Ben burn (266dcf)

  191. But we’re not “killing” them, treating them as “disposable, less than animals”.

    Assuming that we’re doing everything we can, I agree. But someone in a desperate situation is going to speak with desperation.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  192. $1.6 billion in Medicaid to Puerto Rico, FY 2015, and exempted from Federal personal income tax.

    Lots of luck on independence, guys. Surely better than being yoked to that bunch of racist scumbags on the mainland who treat you as “animals that can be disposed of” by trying to help you. “Enough is enough”.

    I hope not too many boys and girls from the mainland die in the aid efforts; and I hope none of the Puerto Ricans serving in our military die either. I hope some of them will come back home and help you make your way in the world as a free sovereign people.

    Frederick (a81afc)

  193. @patterico:But someone in a desperate situation is going to speak with desperation.

    As I said, forgiveable if so. But judging from her history I don’t think she’s only saying it on account of the stress. Perhaps she’ll apologize after a bunch of people from the mainland get killed putting her city back together. We’ll see.

    Our aid, and those deaths, will happen regardless of what she says, of course.

    Frederick (a81afc)

  194. Every frickin’ time we help people, we get our hands bit….

    Puerto Ricans are American citizens by statute, and the U.S. government has an obligation to help them. There is nothing wrong with American citizens criticizing how their government handles its obligations.

    DRJ (15874d)

  195. As I said, forgiveable if so. But judging from her history I don’t think she’s only saying it on account of the stress.

    I haven’t really looked into her history because for some reason I don’t find it that relevant at a time when these people are in desperate straits. I’m not out to validate or attack her beliefs, because I don’t care about them right now. I could not care less if she is a Democrat or a Republican or a radical leftist or rightist or whatever. It seems like the problem there is the biggest issue now. Doesn’t it? I’m impatient with anyone on the mainland trying to politicize it right now, and I’m inclined to cut slack to people on the island for whatever they say, no matter who they are.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  196. @142. Thing is, Patterico, will the citizenry grow ‘weary of the show’ or merely numb if not indifferent to it.

    Personally, suspect the numbness has long set in w/t ‘normalization’ of bad calls and the usual responses in the media, both left and right. Never saw it, but The Apprentice was on the air a long, long time. Even as ratings flagged, it managed to draw an audience longer than one– or two– presidential terms.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  197. @DRJ:There is nothing wrong with American citizens criticizing how their government handles its obligations.

    You are right, of course, they are Americans by statute, and you notice I have been including them as Americans in the every commment–Americans who pay no Federal personal income tax, and who periodically hold votes on secession. The mayor of San Juan feels that we treat them as “disposable, less than animals”, and if the people of Puerto Rico broadly share that belief than after the crisis is over and they are back on their feet they should seek their own destiny without such awful people as us holding them back.

    Frederick (a81afc)

  198. It would be nice if our Jackass in Chief would STFU about the NFL but that’s just my opinion I could be wrong (I’m not).

    Patterico (115b1f)

  199. @Patterico:It seems like the problem there is the biggest issue now.

    Indeed, sir, we will aid them regardless of what names she calls us or how many of our young men and women in uniform die in so doing. That is the right and proper thing to do.

    Frederick (a81afc)

  200. @196. When you have no shame and savvy at spin, there are no bad optics, Ben.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  201. There’s a lot of that “can’t stop thinking about it” crap going on these days and, unfortunately, many of the people who can’t are verbalizing/writing all of these thoughts they can’t stop thinking.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  202. Personally, suspect the numbness has long set in w/t ‘normalization’ of bad calls and the usual responses in the media, both left and right.

    I’m not sure if this is exactly what you mean, but one interesting (and distressing) aspect of the Trump presidency is just now accustomed we have become to the current occupant of the Oval Office saying the most obviously crass and/or laughably dishonest sh!t. It’s not like previous presidents didn’t occasionally say something eye-opening or grossly dishonest, but with this guy it is so constant that something that would have started a three-month controversy with any other president is overshadowed by the next such thing within eight hours, rinse and repeat.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  203. @204. It’s gold. Even by Trump standards, it’s astonishing how much media yardage he’s gotten out of it- nearly a dozen news cycles and counting.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  204. #191
    hf
    Trump usually can take boring story about a guy who is bleeding and spice it up by saying “he was bleeding to death”.
    My take is guy was bleeding. Eventually if his blood does not clot due to hemophilia or whatever, the guy would’ve died.

    I wonder sometimes about how Trump would’ve retold the wicked witches story about being under sniper fire in Bosnia.
    Certainly it’d be more entertaining.

    A long time ago I read a book named Charlie Wilson’s war (much better than the movie) and Trump reminds me of Charlie Wilson. People forgave his bombast and foibles because “that’s just Charlie”.

    Charlie Wilson was from the Bible Belt, yet managed to hire Miss Texas to work in his office and when asked why his office was stocked with cocaine and Miss this and that from all over Texas, Wilson was quoted as saying: They can be taught how to type, but you can’t teach them to grow t*ts.
    And everyone back home in the Bible Belt just said “oh well that’s our Charlie”

    steveg (e8c34d)

  205. Keep writing the truth, Frederick and Steveg!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  206. @196. When you have no shame and savvy at spin, there are no bad optics, Ben.

    True, at least with the base. They couldn’t care less whether Trump is at a golf club or tweeting idiot sh!t. They probably like that. Because they are idiots.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  207. @Patterico:ust now accustomed we have become to the current occupant of the Oval Office saying the most obviously crass and/or laughably dishonest sh!t

    Well, you practice democracy with the electorate and media and political class you have. I never watched his show, but millions did. I never thought he was Presidential material, but millions thought he was the best of what was on offer. And here we are.

    Frederick (a81afc)

  208. @208. Yes, you got it, Patterico. Spot on.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  209. I want Sully Sullenberger for POTUS.

    But I hate to do that to a nice guy.

    Ben burn (266dcf)

  210. Trump usually can take boring story about a guy who is bleeding and spice it up by saying “he was bleeding to death”.

    but for reals if you click back to the source he never says that

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  211. This is just daffy, but it reminds me of fatty Moore’s prognostication a year ago re the Rust Belt versus FL:

    http://www.dailydot.com/upstream/lady-gaga-donald-trump-puerto-rico/

    urbanleftbehind (847a06)

  212. Actual sourced Trump empathy article from 3 day old incident.

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/09/29/trump-delays-air-force-one-to-call-officer-injured-in-motorcade-crash.html

    President Donald Trump delayed Air Force One’s departure from Indianapolis on Wednesday until after he was able to talk with a motorcycle officer who crashed in the motorcade to the airport.

    Initial reports said Trump called the officer during the flight back to Washington, but the Indianapolis Metropolitan Police tweeted Thursday that the president delayed the flight.

    “#BREAKING: Thank you @Potus for delaying wheels up to speak with injured Officer Turner. #ThankYou,” the tweet read.

    BfC (e11dea)

  213. R.I.P. Monty Hall

    Icy (22554e)

  214. No, that’s not how those people think. When they scream at you, you have to scream back. If you respond reasonably, they think they’ve got you cowed and they will try to take your wallet.

    nk (dbc370) — 9/30/2017 @ 12:57 pm

    I have to stop and wonder. You have to think beyond your guns. I don’t respond like a Macaque when someone screams at me. And at the same time Donald Trump is not your daddy. I don’t expect him to go down and personally rebuild a freaking dam.

    I know in the popular mindset that SEALS are percieved as the ultimate bad@##es in the Navy. But I would nominate submariners. When you are 300 feet below sea level in the middle of the Pacific you have no one to rely on except yourself.

    http://www.hookelenews.com/bell-tolling-ceremony-remembers-lost-submariners-killed-in-wwii/

    If you can rip yourself away from Waikiki you can see the bell the Argonaught left behind.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  215. @Stev57:But I would nominate submariners.

    Anyone below the waterline, really. They have to keep the surface ships afloat long enough for every one else to get off, and a lot of them gave up their own chance of survival by doing so.

    Frederick (a81afc)

  216. Which coffin lid… 1… 2… or lid number 3?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  217. 218… heretic!!!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  218. Once one stops looking at Trump as a president and starts watching him as a television personality, everything falls into place. It’s all for the cameras– and he knows his audience.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  219. @219. It’s curtains for Monty Hall; all three. R.I.P.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  220. hf
    #216

    What I am saying is: I don’t care if he said it or not.
    Trump will always embroider the plain, embellish here and there and everywhere.

    Its what he does, and through the news today, I don’t care.
    Its a disagreement some have over a communication style, but again, at this point in time, I do not care

    steveg (e8c34d)

  221. All gave some. Some gave all. My contribution to national security was to every once in a while hike down to the mess deck and eat what the troops were eating. Just to make sure it was adequate. And they didn’t have to stand too long in line to get it. Also that they had plenty of boot polish because flight deck boots aren’t waterproof but if you smear enough shoe polish on them they do a pretty good job of keeping the water out.

    My dad the sainted senior chief taught me that. And more.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  222. The mayor of San Juan feels that we treat them as “disposable, less than animals”, and if the people of Puerto Rico broadly share that belief than after the crisis is over and they are back on their feet they should seek their own destiny without such awful people as us holding them back.

    Some Texans are open to secession, Frederick, and many Red State folks believe they are not treated well. My guess is that a lot of them are Trump supporters. Do you feel the same way about them because they criticized the American government?

    DRJ (15874d)

  223. If you, like me, criticized Obama for playing golf minutes after making an announcement about James Foley’s beheading, and for golfing during the disastrous flooding in Louisiana, and yet are defending Trump for his tweets today, then guess what, your partisan underpants are showing. Optcis matter when one is the president, no matter who it is that is president. The optics sucked for Obama, and they suck now for Trump. But guess what, in these instances the presidents chose the bad optics. It was their decision. It was insensitive, unnecessary and tarnished their own images. It was their choice, and their choice alone – no matter what anyone else said or did. Presidents are not children who try to justify their poor choices awith a “But he did X first!” excuse. For if they do, they are still childish beings.

    Dana (023079)

  224. The boot polish thing was only a real concern when we were operating in the freezing cold near the Aleutians.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  225. The co text to that event, was Obama had suppressed any contrary reporting, on Islamic state, notably coming from general fLynn and probably that FBI analyst that ran afoul of mccabe. Certainly the coast guard commandant indicates all available were propositioned to deal with this matter. But narrative tuber alles

    narciso (d1f714)

  226. Puerto Rico is not a State, DRJ, and unlike a State they may have independence at any time for the asking. If they really feel about us as the mayor of San Juan and described us, they would be better off independent, and they would go from us with nothing but warm wishes for their success.

    It has nothing to do with criticizing the government, DRJ. She said “killing” them, treating them as “animals that can be disposed of”. That is simply a lie. No one is doing either to Puerto Ricans.

    Frederick (a81afc)

  227. Have you seen our hurricane Maria?
    The craziest storm in the sea.
    You’ll know her the minute you see her.
    She pounded our island to bits.

    — When I go back to San Juan.
    — It won’t be there, it’s all gone.
    — Everyone there will give big cheer.
    — Everything there will be drear.

    nk (dbc370)

  228. @Dana:But guess what, in these instances the presidents chose the bad optics

    You know what, Dana? Most Americans who bother to pay attention are going to look at both statements, “killing us”, “treating us as animals to be disposed of”, and compare it to “it should be a community effort, 10,000 Federal now on island doing a fantastic job”, and they are going to reflect on which is a more accurate description of the situation in Puerto Rico.

    An electorate composed entirely of people like yourself would not be fooled by this, of course. But that is not the electorate we have.

    It’s one thing to criticize Trump, but it’s another to slander the people who are risking quite a lot of money and lives to help you.

    Frederick (a81afc)

  229. Trump is the real victim here!

    Patterico (115b1f)

  230. @Patterico:Trump is the real victim here!

    You don’t say to whom this is directed. I care little what the mayor said about Trump. I take great offense to what she said about the rest of America:

    “If not, the world will see how we are treated not as second-class citizens but as animals that can be disposed of. Enough is enough.”

    Frederick (a81afc)

  231. was finally able to find an unedited version of Mayor Trigglypuff’s obscene and hateful ranting, and it’s interesting what the edited versions like the one above don’t want you to see

    she says…

    we are but one nation

    we may be small

    but we are huge in dignity

    and in our zealous for life [sic]

    so i am asking the press to send a mayday call all over the world…

    […]

    so Mr. Trump [not President Trump] I beg you to take charge and save lives

    after all, that is one of the founding principles of the United States of North America [yeah she says the United States of North America]

    if not the world will see how we are treated – not as second-class citizens – but as animals that can be disposed of

    so Triggly’s sending every signal that she doesn’t consider Puerto Rico part of the United States

    Triggly’s saying she doesn’t consider Puerto Ricans to be Americans

    which is very interesting in context is it not

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  232. There are some parallels with the Catalan/spain dichotomy, that came to the fore with the discovery of the El ratty and furthered by an illegal referendum

    narciso (d1f714)

  233. Trump is not playing the victim. He is on control. Which is what the mayor of San Juan asked for (she is abandoning her post and duties).

    BfC (f81d0b)

  234. Dana @ 9/30/2017 @ 5:08 pm, if you want to take on research project go back and look how and why I criticized President “If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor, we’re working with the moderat Mullahs in Tehran” Obama. This guy I can’t accuse of saying one thing and doing another because unlike his predecessor I can’t accuse him of saying one thing.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  235. You seem easily offended.

    DRJ (15874d)

  236. Yes I’m offended at Kate hall type grandstanding, from someone who apparently hasn’t bothered to stay in contact with the people running the relief operation.

    narciso (d1f714)

  237. You don’t say to whom this is directed. I care little what the mayor said about Trump. I take great offense to what she said about the rest of America:

    “If not, the world will see how we are treated not as second-class citizens but as animals that can be disposed of. Enough is enough.”

    Fair enough.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  238. People are dying in large numbers and half the country doesn’t have power or drinking water, so some are drinking whatever they can find like animals. So tell us again how offensive it is to say they are dying and living like animals. Or tell us how they aren’t real Americans.

    DRJ (15874d)

  239. Are you talking to me, DRJ? I’ve never been easily offended. Just ask the SEALS who allowed me onto the six-by for the half hour trip from White Beach to Kadena just so they could see who would gross out the intel guy. Or the submariner who vomited…

    No better not go there. I’ve largely blocked that out of my memory.

    Not. Easily. Offended.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  240. If memory serves, after Vanguard 1 exploded on the pad at Cape Canaveral back in 1957, the Soviets, through the UN, rubbed a little salt in the wound by offering the United States technical assistance in the wake of their Sputnik successes.

    Wonder if Putin has offered any aid, backdoor or front, through commercial or international organizations to score some points.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  241. @DRJ:o tell us again how offensive it is to say they are dying and living like animals.

    That is not what the mayor said. I quoted her exact words enough times.

    Or tell us how they aren’t real Americans.

    I have never said this–I have explicitly included them by saying such things as “mainland Americans”, “the rest of America”, etc. But the mayor, in her unedited remarks, distinguishes Puerto Rico, “one nation” “but maybe small” from the “United States of North America”.

    Frederick (a81afc)

  242. It will take time, to restore the infrastructure, which is the basisfor everything.

    narciso (d1f714)

  243. No, Steve57. That was to Frederick, not you.

    DRJ (15874d)

  244. Frederick, who takes personal offense when Puerto Rican officials complain about how the U.S. government has responded to damage from the hurricane.

    DRJ (15874d)

  245. The mayor of neighboring guaynabo, has a difference of opinion, or is it only Mrs velez, who seems more in tune with Anderson cooper and Elizabeth warren, who is the only reliable witness

    narciso (d1f714)

  246. she’s very offended herself at the beginning of her rant that FEMA has requested documentation

    she seems to think the rules should not apply to Puerto Rico

    and she’s not complaining per se

    she’s saying very clearly that if Mr. Trump doesn’t perform to her expectations tout suite there will be an international propaganda campaign that labels the United States of North America a genocidal state

    it’s a crude and extremely thuggish variety of extortion

    this woman is very very sick and evil

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  247. if nevertrump had a moral compass they could see this woman for what she is

    but alas

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  248. @DRJ:Puerto Rican officials complain about how the U.S. government has responded to damage from the hurricane.

    No, DRJ, that is not what I am objecting to. I would appreciate it if you would stop mischaracterizing what I have written by using vague paraphrases instead of what I actually said. If you’re not sure what I meant I am happy to clarify.

    Frederick (a81afc)

  249. People are dying in large numbers and half the country doesn’t have power or drinking water, so some are drinking whatever they can find like animals. So tell us again how offensive it is to say they are dying and living like animals. Or tell us how they aren’t real Americans.

    DRJ (15874d) — 9/30/2017 @ 5:51 pm

    How many Puerto Ricans have you showered with, DRJ? Puerto Rico is an unincorporated territory of the United States and has been since 1898. My former outfit had a little bit to do with bringing them into the fold. Per capita Puerto Rico contributes more members of the armed services than any state.

    What do you think we aren’t doing for them? The Kearsarge Expeditionary Strike Group (ESG) was on scene. Sure, those ships had to do storm avoidance but they got there as soon as they could. After providing relief to the Houston area following Harvey.

    I am not easily offended but one of my failings is that I am easily angered. Hillary Clinton angers me. She tweeted on the 24th that dumb@## Trump needed to send the USNS Comfort. Well, the comfort got underway on the 27th and the editors at the WaPo think that the tweet had something to do with it.

    If any of you think that Hillary’s tweet had anything to do with cancelling leave, victualing, supplying, and fueling that ship I have beach front property in Nebraska to sell you.

    But more than that the Kearsarge is a hospital ship. She brings with her the Arlington and Oak Hill. Arlington is a San Antonio-class dock landing platform; I have definite issues with that. But in addition to the six hundred casualties the Kearsarge can handle the other two big amphibs bring significant medical capabilities.

    What do you people think happens to wounded Marines? We, the United States Navy, go and get them. And bring them back to the boats.

    Hillary Clinton is both a liar and an idiot.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  250. “So tell us again how offensive it is to say they are dying and living like animals”

    Doesn’t take a hurricane for that to be true. As I write this, some people are dying and some are – indeed – living like animals, right here in the US and all around the world, for that matter.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  251. she’s very offended herself at the beginning of her rant that FEMA has requested documentation

    [Insert comment containing the words “spray paint” here.]

    nk (dbc370)

  252. “How many Puerto Ricans have you showered with, DRJ?”

    Steve… have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? I think it’s some number greater than one, but less than twenty five.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  253. @Col. Haiku:Per capita Puerto Rico contributes more members of the armed services than any state.

    Yes they do. If Puerto Rico chooses independence, I am selfish enough to hope that those young men and women choose to stay with the rest of America; it could be argued, however, than an independent Puerto Rico would need them more.

    In fact I would favor open borders and free trade with an independent Puerto Rico, given our shared history; if they would I agree I would agree.

    Frederick (a81afc)

  254. Sorry, steve, that was your quote, not the Colonel’s.

    Frederick (a81afc)

  255. The most likely result, is a large cohort will move to south and central Florida, changing the political complexion of the state.

    narciso (d1f714)

  256. @narcisco:The most likely result, is a large cohort will move to south and central Florida, changing the political complexion of the state.

    Regardless it would be the right thing to do, I think. Since they’ve been American all this time, it would not be fair not to give them the free choice.

    Frederick (a81afc)

  257. DRJ,
    I do not believe that the federal government’s response to Maria in Puerto Rico was one hair less conscientious than its response to Harvey in Texas or Irma in Florida.
    I believe the difference in the results on the ground are due entirely to the fact that Puerto Ricans are not Texans or even Floridians.
    I further believe that La Senora Alcaldesa No Es Salerosa
    1) Behaved like an aggressive panhandler,
    2) and her motives were insincere, to wit:
    a. Democrat vs. Republican partisan politics;
    b. Pandering to Puerto Rican nationalism; and
    c. Shifting the blame for the shortcomings of the local response.

    nk (dbc370)

  258. I haven’t heard any Puerto Rican official complaining of the federal response. I have some experience with this sor of thing. Please bear with me for a second.

    Puerto Rico is an island. I can drive from Dallas to Houston. I can drive from Texas to Florida. Look it up; you’ll see semis stacked up on the interstates just waiting to deliver relief supplies following Harvey and Irma.

    You can’t drive to Puerto Rico.

    Although I have to suppress my service pride and admit that Marines are not entirely useless in an emergency (latrines, they taught me, what goes in must come out and adding an epidemic to a natural disaster does not solve your problem) something tells me the Kearsarge ESG has deployed for for this mission without its normal outfit of the 26the Marine Expeditionary Unit and something more than its usual Construction Battalion and Fleet Surgical Team allotment.

    The Kearsarge ESG and its support train is self sustaining. It’s not nothing. The additional four hundred beds the Comfort would bring is small beer compared to what this ESG brings to Puerto Rico. Getting Puerto Rico’s hospitals up and running is the important thing and no one is better able to accomplish that then the Seabees.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  259. PS. Google Translate to the contrary, “salerosa” does not mean salty.

    nk (dbc370)

  260. The average number of deaths per day in Puerto Rico so far this year is 80. Bodies aren’t supposed to be buried until the death is certified by the government so they are stacking up. Any report which doesn’t identify the normal average daily count while writing about overflowing morgues is engaged in propaganda.

    Rick Ballard (c15cdb)

  261. I’m sorry DRJ, you don’t need to answer that.

    As for me, I’ve showered with more than 25 Puerto Ricans and no. No romance was involved. It was at AOCS and aboard an aircraft carrier. I didn’t have a choice. I had to.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  262. We waited several days to send the military, Steve57. Instead, the government relied solely on FEMA and local governments, probably because it worked in Florida and Texas. But Puerto Rico is more remote and had less of an infrastructure before the hurricane. I think it was reasonable to expect a military response would be needed. And they just sent the Comfort. Why wait a week for that?

    DRJ (15874d)

  263. Ok, full disclosure. The showerings also took place aboard USS Belleau Wood (LHA-3) and USS Dubuque (LPD-8). I’ve got the coffee cups somewhere.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  264. I will be glad to ignore your comments, Frederick. But sometimes you are hard to ignore.

    DRJ (15874d)

  265. Steve57,

    I am complimenting the military but wondering why the government didn’t deploy it sooner. It sounds like you believe I am saying the opposite of that.

    DRJ (15874d)

  266. We waited several days to send the military, Steve57.

    this is not true

    hurricane maria sauntered into puerto rico on September 20

    Hurricane Maria Update: Sept. 20, 2017:

    More than 1,700 U.S. Army Soldiers and U.S. Army Corps of Engineers Headquarters civilians are in Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands to help citizens recover from Hurricane Maria. (U.S. Army)

    ergo therefore qed we had our tatters all up in it from the git go

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  267. That is certainly a plausible view, nk, but I don’t agree. There was no reasonable way an island nation could suffer this much damage and respond without military assistance, but the military was not sent for dasys. FEMA can’t clear and build roads, or provide entire hospitals and power plants in a week. The military arguably can, and that is what is needed — and clearly would be needed.

    The USS Wasp was in Dominica providing relief since the hurricane. It’s not like there were no resources available. They weren’t sent.

    DRJ (15874d)

  268. 103 – boy, that tweet sure found its target audience.

    harkin (d40afa)

  269. @264. There’s an element of ‘storm fatigue’ to this mix; three big slams in a month or so– and we’re only just past seasonal peak.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  270. Yeah, found it. My USS Dubuque coffee cup. Ship’s motto, Our country: our heritage, our future.

    What the h3ll that is supposed to mean I don’t know. And I must have lost the one from the Belleau Wood.

    As far as taking a long time, I don’t see it.

    http://wtkr.com/2017/08/30/uss-kearsarge-and-uss-oak-hill-head-to-texas-for-hurricane-harvey-relief/

    If you want to have a conversation about the Navy being too small what with the NORKs and the Russians and the CHICOMs and the natural disasters I’ll be happy to have that conversation.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  271. “As for me, I’ve showered with more than 25 Puerto Ricans and no. No romance was involved.”

    I was feeling some concern but then read your disclosure in post 270, Steve… whew, good to hear no soap bars were dropped! Check this one out>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/mpbgic82y7nPxYg03

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  272. Military personnel in Puerto Rico are now at 5,000 and growing, hf, in addition to the thousand (or more) of military personnel already on the island.

    DRJ (15874d)

  273. I bet this past week seems like a long time to the people in Puerto Rico, Steve57. I think the ships detailed at the link (that are going there now) could have provided needed assistance.

    DRJ (15874d)

  274. yes yes they adapt as the situation develops

    i’m so happy how good they’re doing

    but honestly if the puerto ricans are gonna be like the execrable Mayor Trigglypuff and have an attitude about it I think everyone involved has other stuff they could be doing

    what do we think about sleazy war hero John McCain’s bill to just repeal the Jones Act for Puerto Rico

    i think that’s goofy and if anything would only serve to enshrine and consecrate the Jones Act for all time

    if it’s too suck-ass for Puerto Rico then it’s too suck-ass for real America

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  275. Of course it has, the damages to infrastructure, outkibed in 150 are staggering, but that is different from the categorization that the mayor of guaynabp has for example not concurred on.

    narciso (d1f714)

  276. DRJ @ 9/30/2017 @ 7:20 pm, I’m sure it did seem like long time. But as Elvis says, only fools rush in. Your article notes that the Wasp was on its way to her new duty station in Sasebo. That strikes me at me heart, Nihon wa ore no dai ni Furusato. Japan is my second home town. I was on a commission that planned USN support to Yokosuka in the event of a natural disaster.

    I may not have answered your questions adequately. All I know is that Navy Seabees are clearing roads and reestablishing power. Navy helos are delivering supplies. Like me coming to Texas, they got there as quick as they could. The Navy is something of an old lady when it comes to storm avoidance. I like many in the Navy think Halsey should have been court martialed for crossing the T of Typhoon Cobra. He lost two ships and hundreds of aircraft and men. It was the largest unanswered loss the USN suffered in WWII.

    Mounting a relief effort on an island that has its entire infrastructure wiped out is not an easy task. Kind of like the Normandy invasion. Or …

    https://www.amazon.com/Hell-Pay-Operation-Downfall-1945-1947/dp/1591143160

    Aside: if the chapter on the medical planning for the invasion of Japan doesn’t scare the h3ll out of you then you are not human. That and the part about the Navy not realizing until it was too late they didn’t have enough Purple Hearts to go around.

    As far as the federal response to Maria I don’t see how it could have been better.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  277. 103 – boy, that tweet sure found its target audience.

    I bet it did, yes.

    I’m not that target audience, by the way. Your snide and nasty implication to the contrary.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  278. Malaguena Salerosa, the South Texas version.

    nk (dbc370)

  279. People who leave comments designed simply to insult me are just going to get added to the block list. You can insult me once and have me see it. After that, you’re gone. Today was a banner day for that. I won’t regret seeing fewer insults.

    I will have to rely on others to tell me when someone says something bannable.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  280. Just as with tube epidemic of collisions which merchant vessels, the sequester has made the avaliabulity of combat and support all that more critical.

    narciso (d1f714)

  281. I believe I added three people today.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  282. Halsey resumed command in late May 1945. After a few days, in early June 1945, Halsey again sailed the fleet into the path of a typhoon, designated Connie, resulting in six lives lost, and 75 airplanes destroyed, with 70 more planes badly damaged. While ships sustained crippling damages, none were lost on this occasion. A Court of Inquiry was convened once again. After lengthy deliberations, the Court suggested that Halsey be “reassigned,” but Admiral Nimitz rejected the Court’s suggestion due to Halsey’s “prior service” to the Navy.[8] Halsey remained in command of the Third Fleet for approximately eight more weeks, until the cessation of hostilities on August 14, 1945. He was promoted to Fleet Admiral on December 11, 1945 and retired in March 1947.

    oh my goodness

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  283. A timeless classic.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBlbAvcQruc

    Navy LSE during VERTREP

    Now happening round the clock in the environs of Puerto Rico. Short of becoming casualties themselves I don’t know what more they could have done. Or for that matter Trump, other than putting on hip waders and rebuilding dams.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  284. And the rationale behind crossing the t, was what exactly again?

    narciso (d1f714)

  285. Ot, I know its a small thing, not really, but not siding with our Kurdish allies really stinks. I don’t know what tillerson us thinking?

    narciso (d1f714)

  286. I said above:

    I probably have a lot more in common with a Democrat who believes in big-government ideas I reject, but who is honest and who angrily rejects the loudmouths, extremists, and assholes on his own side — than I have in common with the dishonest loudmouths, extremists, and assholes on “my” own side.

    With this realization, I’m less and less interested in hearing from that latter group.

    I am not on your side.

    I am not a Republican.

    I am sorry that your love of Trump makes you have the sadz when he is criticized. But I do not care to hear your complaints. I am done reading them from people who have nothing else to offer.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  287. You’ve got the enemy ships lined up one behind the other, like ducks in a row, that’s the upright of the T, and only the first one can engage you, while your fleet, the crossbar of the T, sales across and each of your ships lets off salvos down the upright, sinking them one after the other.

    nk (dbc370)

  288. Actually, Mr. Feets:

    https://ww2db.com/battle_spec.php?battle_id=79

    …On 18 Dec 1944, divine intervention interfered with human action again. Admiral William Halsey and his Task Force 38 were caught unaware amidst refueling when Typhoon Cobra struck them to the east of island of Luzon of the Philippines. Halsey’s weather experts misread the track of this impending storm, and the admiral sailed right into it. As the heavy swells caused by 60-knot winds tossed his ships like children’s toys, Halsey’s ships scattered over 3,000 square miles. By the time he issued a typhoon warning to his captains, he had already lost three destroyers Spence, Hull, and Monaghan.

    ww2dbaseAboard the carrier Monterey, aircraft in the hangar deck slammed into one another “like pinballs”, Gerald Ford recalled. It was inevitable that fires broke out. Captain Stuart H. Ingersoll was ordered by Halsey to abandon ship, but Ingersoll thought that “We can fix this”, and Ford, among others were the heroes who battled the bitter fire and eventually put it out, saving the carrier.

    ww2dbaseAboard the carrier Cowpens, the scene was similar. A Hellcat fighter, despite being triple-lashed, broke loose and smashed into the catwalk, starting a fire. Even as the firefighters attempted to extinguish the fire, a bomb handling truck rolled across the hangar deck and struck the tank of another fighter. The 100-knot winds even ripped out a 20-mm gun emplacement right out of its mounts. In the end, Cowpens survived, but the Hellcat that smashed into the catwalk did not…

    I don’t know where you are getting the idea Halsey lost no ships. Me, I’m taking the word of Gerald Ford who was a stud and was a Fighter Direction Officer in the Monterey.

    And, Pat, if someone tells you I said something bannable please check it out yourself. I never make a comment purely to insult anyone. I only make comments if I believe I have something informative to say. Somebody may find that insulting, but then truth is the new hate speech. If I don’t believe I have anything informative to say I can go weeks without commenting.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  289. nonono

    these were separate typhoons

    Halsey resumed command in late May 1945. After a few days, in early June 1945, Halsey again sailed the fleet into the path of a typhoon, designated Connie…

    who does that?

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  290. Somebody who has to go some place where there’s a war going on?

    nk (dbc370)

  291. Cobra in Dec 44
    Connie in June 45

    Happyfeet’s quote talks about Connie
    Steve’s quote talks about Cobra

    Did Halsey manage to to sail into two typhoons in seven months (and both named with C-names, yet)

    kishnevi (1f8073)

  292. Ever hear of a war being rained out?

    nk (dbc370)

  293. Getting struck in port, is something differing to sailing into a typhoon, ymmv,

    It does appear that the mayor of guaynabo as well as the govs account is at variance with Mrs. Cruz, now the media tomorrow will take pains to hide that fact.

    narciso (d1f714)

  294. The Army would call it enfilade fire. A formation is “in enfilade” if weapons fire can be directed along its longest axis. Or, the long arm of the T.

    My admiral in Carl Vinson once crossed the T of a hurricane. It scared the h3ll out me. And to tell you just how old I am we spent two weeks in Subic Bay repairing the damage. The Vinson was made of thick steel but that storm caved in the bows.

    So I had lots of good liberty but now I live in North Texas. Yeah, I know we have a gulf coast but now I live about as far away from the ocean as you can get in America because the ocean SCARES THE [BLANK] OUT OF ME!

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  295. i’m just taking it all in

    how is his name not a verb

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  296. Want kamikaze the original description of a typhoon, as it was meant to drive away invading fleet

    narciso (d1f714)

  297. who does that?
    happyfeet (28a91b) — 9/30/2017 @ 8:16 pm

    My admiral. His call sign was “Ho Chi.”

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  298. Divine Wind. Two storms, which sank the fleet of Kublai Khan when he tried invade Japan, in 1274 and 1281.

    nk (dbc370)

  299. Another name for the Kamikaze was Sakura, falling cherry blossoms. There’s a song, too. My daughter used to sing it. In Japanese.

    nk (dbc370)

  300. I think our host doth protest too much.

    Poor Biggie (987b85)

  301. I vaguely recalled that, yes nature should disabuse us of our arrogance to mastery of thecplanet, but it doesn’t seem to work that way

    narciso (d1f714)

  302. We were a professional outfit. Why, with a little creative accounting we could downgrade the Class A mishap the Carrier Air Wing commander caused when he landed his F-14 into the six pack aft of the island into a minor write-off. Hardly worth talking about.

    Of course, and as much as it pains me to say it, at that time F-14s needed to be destroyed. Back in 1992 my squadron was well on its way to winning Tomcat Follies at Miramar. What really should have put us over the top was or skit. We held an All Officer’s Meeting in a life raft in the O-Club pool. We were waiting for “Ogre” to form a quorum when he parachuted in after his plane broke.

    But then VF-2 rented a tank and crushed all our fighter cars and took the trophy. And my hat’s off to them because if we had thought of that first we wouldn’t have had Sedan Deville with a keg in the trunk just waiting to be crushed.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  303. The fun never ended. I recall glancing up from my task at hand to the Pilot Landing Aid Tv. The PLAT was really the only show in town, on in almost all spaces. And I’m thinking, why is that A-7 landing in afterburner? Then it strikes me, A-7s don’t have burners.

    The guy somehow managed to catch a wire while he was several feet off the deck, then slammed down so hard it drove the nose wheel up into the intake. The flames shooting out of the exhaust was the engine consuming itself and the metal parts of the landing gear.

    For the unfamiliar:

    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-_NM3wcx_LXs/UrIDeSp0pBI/AAAAAAAACX0/nQ4_eZXi3eQ/s1600/A-7_Corsair_II_Wallpaper_ljd8u.jpg

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  304. What did they replace the tomcat with, want that the time of the tailhook purge?

    narciso (d1f714)

  305. so did nobody click the linker to watch the unedited obscenely hateful trigglypuff rant?

    i left an easter egg for someone to discover

    it’s so fascinating what they didn’t want us to hear

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  306. here’s what you haven’t heard our skanky Mayor Trigglypuff say in the heavily-edited cnn nbc or cbs renditions of this hateful rant:

    so i am asking the president of the United States to make sure somebody is in charge that is up to the task of saving lives

    they were up to the task in Africa when ebola came over

    they were up to the task in Haiti – as they should be

    because when it comes to saving lives, we are all part of one community of shared values

    see what the nasty scrunt did there?

    her examples of American largess are those of decidedly *foreign* aid and assistance – she’s not citing Texas and Florida

    she’s playing a very very nasty game and she honestly couldn’t be more sleazy and revolting

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  307. now go back up to Dana’s youtube up there and watch how they edit that out

    nasty stuff huh

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  308. Could you hum it in five notes?

    narciso (d1f714)

  309. i’m not kidding Mr. narciso

    we’re being played

    well not me

    but y’all are

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  310. Well that interesting what where the fatalities in west Africa in 2014, in Haiti four years earlier (we’ve leave out the import of cholera for this discussion)

    narciso (d1f714)

  311. remember though – vile Mayor Trigglypuff says it’s *not* a “good news” story that the casualties in Puerto Rico were so low

    we haven’t talked about that yet

    but the CNN Jake Tapper fake news propaganda sluts seem to think it somehow reflects badly on the president of the United States of North America

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  312. Another name for the Kamikaze was Sakura, falling cherry blossoms. There’s a song, too. My daughter used to sing it. In Japanese.

    nk (dbc370) — 9/30/2017 @ 8:30 pm

    Sakura means cherry blossom. The Sakura Matsuri or cherry blossom festival is a big deal in Japan. NHK, Japan’s equivalent to the BBC, monitors and reports on the Cherry Blossom “Front” as it moves from south to north along the archipelago each spring.

    The Sakura are revered for their beauty, and are known for their short lives. Hence their symbolic tie to the young men who volunteered for suicide missions.

    As an aside, these weren’t insane people. I’ve met some of them. Japan had a lot of suicide weapons stocked up at the end of the war. Not just planes, but boats, submarines, even frogmen who were supposed to march along the seabed and afix mines to US Ships. Stupid! Stupid! Oh, and I also met some of the guys who were assigned to train them. They knew at the time it was stupid, as the trainers were in the rare position of being rotated back to Japan to share their combat experience. And they were to a man grateful we ended the war by nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

    Japanese aviators so rarely returned to Japan (unlike USN aviators who routinely rotated back to become flight instructors) they had a rueful joke that the only way they’d ever go back to Japan was in a box.
    They thought when they signed up for that business that they were going to spend their lives defending their homeland, their families, in the service of their emperor who was in fact their god at the time.

    As a further aside, I played a small role in providing their AEGIS (Kongo class) destroyers Anti-Ballistic Missile capability. When I was stationed in Japan and the NORKs started acting up my money was no good in the bars and izakayas near my apartment. They didn’t know about my work, they didn’t know about what business I may have had with their destroyers, but they knew I was in the USN and they were glad me and 7th Fleet were there.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  313. @ Steve57 (#283): My dad, as an extremely junior officer serving in-theater under him on occasion, had a low opinion of Adm. Halsey, but acknowledged that opinion could and did vary (especially as between career and non-career officers), depending on how much one valued aggression over prudence. My dad thought Halsey was reckless with men’s lives.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  314. Well it was a fundamentally different regime in the 80 and 90s, than that of the war years, even though their were some reminders like sasagwa and kodama.

    narciso (d1f714)

  315. What did they replace the tomcat with, want that the time of the tailhook purge?

    narciso (d1f714) — 9/30/2017 @ 8:51 pm

    The Tomcat and Crusader mafia will tell you that the Navy didn’t replace the F-14 with anything.

    Hornet drivers will tell you different. YMMV.

    And yes that was around the time of the Tailhook purge. I joined the pre-Tailhook Navy and to be honest I liked it a lot better.

    We had an unofficial motto back then. We work when we’re at sea. Lord knows I have nothing against women. Any woman who has ever had the slightest contact with me can tell you that. But the average age of any Sailor is about 19. When there were no women on combatants I felt like I was part of a professional organization. When Congress put women aboard I felt like a high school hall monitor. You couldn’t keep the boys and the girls away from each other with a crow bar.

    In 2008 I retired and now I have no idea what they do at sea but apparently it’s the same thing as Vegas as the capture 10 Sailors off Farsi Island seems to indicate.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  316. That appears so, seems a heck of way to run a railroad though.

    narciso (d1f714)

  317. I was leaking out kishi because his influence was mostly in the 50s, although his involvementvon the peninsila. sets a shadow re hid grandson shintaro Abe and north Korea.

    narciso (d1f714)

  318. Beldar, I have no personal experience with Halsey. Nor do I have any particular beef with him. I do agree he was reckless with men’s lives and frankly less than honest. Spruance was the better admiral.

    Halsey relieved the skipper of the USS Helena for no valid reason whatsoever. The Helena was shepherding a formation of battered ships back to New Caledonia (I think, somewhere in the South West Pacific where Halsey was in command). A Japanese submarine torpedoed the USS Juneau of five Sullivan brothers fame.

    As commodore of this motley crew the skipper made the decision to not remain in what was later called “torpedo junction” and look for survivors. No officer on the scene imagined there would be survivors. One second the Juneau was there, then there was a massive explosion and ship parts falling miles away from her last known position but no ship.

    Despite making what one officer described as the gutsiest decision he ever saw anyone make, and signalling a USAAF B-17 on a reconnaissance mission to search for survivors, Halsey second guessed him and relieved him of command. Halsey essentially accused this fine officer of cowardice.

    Only Spruance, then Nimitz’s Chief of Staff, had the good sense to ask the CO how many functioning destroyers he had with him. The answer was One. He had one fully mission capable anti-submarine warfare capable ship with him (USN cruisers in WWII were strictly surface warfare combatants; Japanese cruisers carried torpedoes and that was the death of more than one of them).

    With one known IJN submarine in the area it would have been suicide to keep his crippled task force in the area. Spruance knew that, Halsey didn’t.

    Frankly I can’t really blame Halsey. He was a known commodity. Nimitz’s indulgence of Halsey is one of the few black marks I can find on an otherwise stellar career. Chester Nimitz’s own son remarked on it. Nimitz junior was a submariner, and he was dining with his father at Pearl after rotating off his command tour of the USS Haddo en route to another command when the Battle of Leyte Gulf was playing out.

    Halsey’s battle group was nowhere to be found, off chasing Ozawa’s decoys when Kurita’s center force went charging into the amphibious operations area.

    Thank G_d for Taffy Three. Don’t forget to visit the memorial when in Sandy Eggo.

    When Nimitz was informed that Halsey had gone charging off leaving the back door to the invasion fleet unguarded, his son said to him, “It’s your own d#mned fault.”

    And it was. Halsey would relieve a good officer in a nanosecond. On an impulse. I say he was less than honest because he knew in short order that he had screwed up by relieving the skipper of the Helena and he came up with several stories trying to make excuses for himself in the following years. But Nimitz never relieved Halsey despite having good cause.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  319. It has gotten worse, narciso. DEOMI, the Defense Equal Opportunity Management Institute.

    Imagine giving the gender, race, ethnic, and “queer” grievance studies department at Oberlin college a role in national defense. Yeah.

    https://www.popehat.com/2015/04/27/tumult-at-oberlin-in-wake-of-emotional-support-animal-companion-initiative/

    …Oberlin administrators announced the Emotional Support Companion Animals Program for Everyone, affectionately known as “ESCAPE,” last week to an eager student body. “This is a safe space,” said Walter Green, the college’s Executive Vice-President for Redress of Grievances. “And we choose to make it safer with the help of the nonhuman companions with whom we share Mother Earth.”

    “The nonhuman companions’ choices will also be part of our community dialogue,” he added.

    With that, Oberlin launched an ambitious plan to supply each student and faculty member with an animal companion to support their emotional, spiritual, and socioeconomic needs, drawing from a large population PETA recently liberated from various forms of servitude across the midwest. Excited undergraduates lined up outside the Nifong Student Empowerment Cooperative, waiting their turn to choose and bond with a companion. “We needed this. We needed this to get through this year from hell,” remarked Sophomore False Consciousness Studies major Lauren Haller, as her friends jazzhanded in an affirming manner….

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  320. You didn’t ask me, but I’ll answer. If I were in the Oval Office, I would not make it about me and about whether people were being “nasty to Frey” but about the response and how to make things better. And I wouldn’t be at a [expletive deleted]ing golf club while I took potshots at an official on an island suffering from a catastrophe like this — allowing the media to contrast my kick-back golfing weekend with images like this:

    It wouldn’t matter. They’d find a shot of you picking your nose, and that’s what they’d run. Trump just lets them go home early.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  321. But yes, if, somehow, Trump were able to just stand in front of a lectern and talk about how the Mayor’s political spin on everything was unfortunate and how, as we speak, we were sending additional help, it would be great.

    And the press would run “Trump admits more help was needed, vindicating mayor.”

    Kevin M (752a26)

  322. Of course, if we had a real president we’d be talking about something more interesting meaningful. Trump is, if anything, tiresome. Even if you agree with much of what he is doing, his Drunkard’s Walk way of getting anywhere is exhausting. I cannot imagine the electorate will be up for 8 years of this.

    Please God a challenger.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  323. 269. DRJ (15874d) — 9/30/2017 @ 6:52 pm

    Why wait a week for that?

    It took that long for the problem with business as usual (which includes handllng emergencies) to come to the attention of Fox News.

    Now Trump was implicitly criticized by the Mayor of San Juan for not doing enough. He shoots back: What happened to the local government and people in Puerto Rico – i.e., just >i> whose inefficiency are we talking about here?

    Now that may be wrong or partially wrong. There may be problems also with the federal aid effort.

    Trump later realizes that, in saying it should be a community effort, he seems to have criticized the ordinary people of Puerto Rico, and praises first responders, leaving his criticism only for the inability of people in official positions in Puerto Rico to get their employees to show up for work.

    (Probably the fault is mostly with upper management. Many of these people, I’m guessing, may have abandoned their posts – they are probably on salary, and will still get paid, so that’s not a a worry for them while meanwhile they are taking care of their family’s problems – or are unable to rise up to the occasion and do something a bit original to get things organized.)

    Trump also further states, in almost a more-in-sorrow-than-in-anger manner, at least for Trump, that the mayor’s motive for criticizing him (and saying you are killing us with the inefficiency is personal criticism of the president * ) was politically motivated, proven, it is implied, by the fact that a couple of days before, (when less had been done) she was complimentary to him. There may be a logical fallacy here because maybe the problem on;y developed later. She could also have been insincere both times.

    ————–
    * Trump takes the word “you” to mean himself.

    In any case, Mayor Carmen Yulin Cruz doesn’t make any specific request, except that Trump should “take charge and save lives.” What does she mean by that?

    Maybe it could mean shake things up some more. Trump thinks it’s just political. He did appoint a 3-star general.

    Apparently the general says he’s not getting enough resources (to police the area, or maybe to do things safely or to ensure the supplies aren’t stolen, and that there’s no mob etc..)

    Sammy Finkelman (a784d8)

  324. 179. Poor Biggie (987b85) — 9/30/2017 @ 4:06 pm

    I dunno, bury the electric lines,

    They could at least bury the telephone lines, and they probably used to have a significant percentage buried but they ust be all using cellphones now. And cell phone service can get knocked out.

    The problem with the water is exaggerated. The water people can get may not meet standard quality requirements, but to get diseases started you need pathogens also, so they probably have some time, weeks or even months, before a problem develops. This is important to bear in mind.

    313. In Haiti, a cholera epidemic occured because the United NAtions aid nrought cholera (Nepalese troops had it) Did she seriously praise the relief effort in Haiti? A lot of money was spent on stupid things and siphoned off, too. The Clinton Foundation was involved with that one.

    There seem to be two ways food and eater gets distributed.

    One way, the Red Cross, say, announces it will distribute it. Long lines develop, and people find out they only get small bottles and 4 snacks, and they prevent people from getting seconds (maybe by recording the names – no, they can’t check all the names aaginst each other, can they? Are they using a computer?)

    The other way, very high prices are charged, and people pay in cash, which they can get from the rare functioning ATM. (with phones out, credit and debit cards don’t work) People also have a hard time just getting to supermarkets because roads are blocked and there is not enough gasoline to go around, although that’s getting better.

    We discovered that having generators isn’t enough in a truely wiidespread disaster, because there’s a problem (naybe being fixed in Puerto Rico now) with getting diesel fuel for the generators.

    Two patients in one hospital died last week because their hospital ran out of fuel for its generator. Women whom doctors never would consider scheduling a birth at home are giving birth at home. (No way to get to the hospital, to communicate with the hospital etc.)

    Sammy Finkelman (a784d8)

  325. Discussion of Puerto Rico electricity situation after Irma but before Maria:

    https://theintercept.com/2017/09/12/in-wake-of-hurricane-irma-vultures-eye-puerto-ricos-electric-grid-for-privatization/

    It’s actually a very fair (if possibly incomplete) article.

    Sammy Finkelman (a784d8)

  326. Maybe its fake news like the Russian ads for Hillary and the election hacks that ended up at unemployment division in Wisconsin, but the narrative is more emotion than fact.

    narciso (d1f714)

  327. It does seem like trusting the same rizzotto tray media, who were in the tank for Hillary, is nit wise:
    http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2017/10/everything_thats_not_sexism_is_racism.html

    narciso (d1f714)

  328. I dunno mg. Seems like the caller’s belief that her corrupt mayor and governor necessitates that the help should come from someone else…

    “If Cuba and Venezuela want to help and we are grateful for that; and that the government denies their help, the government denies Cuba’s help. …That they reject Venezuela’s help, …Look for God’s sake! Tell me how is that possible, we need help.”

    crazy (d99a88)

  329. That vargas ‘genocide’ seems nit to have made it to those shores, heck its vaguely recognized over here.

    narciso (d1f714)

  330. As far as the federal response to Maria I don’t see how it could have been better.

    Steve57 (0b1dac) — 9/30/2017 @ 7:46 pm

    The outer bands of Hurricane Maria hit Puerto Rico on Tuesday night, September 19, 2017. The winds and rain continued with hurricane force until Wednesday night/Thursday morning.

    On September 25, Trump tweeted that Puerto Rico’s power grid was devastated. He also mentioned its damaged infrastructure and massive debt made the local response more difficult.

    The military commander arrived Thursday, September 28. He took his first tour yesterday, September 30, and pronounced the damage as the worst he’s ever seen.

    I think Trump should have sent the military sooner or, if he did (and I don’t think he did because he sent FEMA and relied on it to mobilize resources), they should have gotten there sooner.

    DRJ (15874d)

  331. The New York Post has what at first glance looks like a special opinion column running scross the bottom of page 7 by Jorge Rodriguez, the “CEO of PACIV, an international engineering firm based in Puerto Rico that works with the medical snd pharmaceutical sectors” but is actually some sort of statement issued and previously published elsewhere a few days ago by now. At the New York Post it is dated Saturday, 30 September 2017 17:19

    At Buzzfeed the link is http://blabber.buzz/politics/conservative-news/236142-inept-puerto-rican-government-riddled-with-corruption-ceo but I can’t find a time.

    The Post headlines it:

    Isle’s corruption is an unnatural disaster

    Here is most of it: (it also can be found at Buzzfeed)

    :

    For the last 30 years, the Puerto Rican government has been completely inept at handling regular societal needs, so I just don’t see it functioning in a crisis like this one. Even before the hurricane hit, water and power systems were already broken. And our $118 billion debt crisis is a result of government corruption and mismanagement.

    The governor Ricardo Rossello has little experience. He’s 36 and never really held a job and never dealt with a budget. His entire administration is totally inexperienced and they have no clue how to handle a crisis of this magnitude.

    For instance, shortly after the hurricane hit, the government imposed a curfew from 6 pm to 6 am and then changed it. Now, it’s 7 pm to 5 am, and makes no sense. The curfew has prevented fuel trucks from transporting their loads. These trucks should have been allowed to run for 24 hours to address our needs, but they have been stalled, and so we have massive lines at gas stations and severe shortages of diesel at our hospitals and supermarkets.

    I’m really tired of Puerto Rican government officials blaming the federal government for their woes and for not acting fast enough to help people on the island. Last week I had three federal agents in my office and I was so embarrassed; I went out of my way to apologize to them for the attitude of my government and what they have been saying about the US response. When the hurricane hit we had experts from FEMA from all over the US on the ground and I was really proud of their quick response. The first responders and FEMA have all been outstanding in this crisis, and should be supported.

    I have 50 engineers that I have sent out pro bono to help local companies get back on their feet. This includes getting people gasoline and cash, and helping them connect to others that can assist with repairs without delays.

    I won’t allow my people to work with the local government.

    I see that there is some kind of report that fuel trucks are now being exempted from the curfew. They are also going to get security. Jorge Rodriguez did not say anything about possible reasons for he curfew.

    Sammy Finkelman (a784d8)

  332. 336. With Katrina in 2005, it was FEMA that was interfering with eople helping other people unofficially.

    Sammy Finkelman (a784d8)

  333. Jorge Rodriguez did not say anything about possible reasons for he curfew.

    Easy to understand. Been to PR lately? Or for that matter, any Latin American Country?

    Poor Biggie (987b85)

  334. Lin Manuel Douchbag wants Trump to go to hell for doing 1,00000000 more than any PR Politician including himself.

    Poor Biggie (987b85)

  335. He deleted his previous text, because narrative.

    narciso (d1f714)

  336. 316, 317.

    Puerto is a special case or a special case of something that got a lot worse recently.

    It’s been mentioned in passing in some news article in the past year or so that Puerto Rico now has a growing crime problem (I would guess because of penny wise and pound foolish cutbacks in government spending) and that is one of the reasons why many Puerto Ricans have moved to Florida (particularly near Orlando) with the other big reason being the economy. Of course right now, the economy of Puerto Rico is in a coma.

    Luis Miranda Sr. has a special opinion column in the New York Daily News (which apparently is still virulently anti-Trump in spite of thefact that Mort Zuckerman sold it) He accuses Trump of having called Puerto Ricans lazy when he said they want everything done for them. Then he says that his brother Elvin (Lin Manuel’s uncle) spemds five hours every day in line to retrieve pallets of food for people in his home town of Vega. He says other people – I can’t figure out what he is saying – have been working nonstop to openn lines of communication to “barrios” buried under debris? He sys his son, Ln-Manuel, as worked day and noight to raise money.

    So let’s see what the “hard work” is:

    1. Standing in line – which is hard and at leasr time consuming but a horribly inefficient way of distributing food.

    2. Attempting too re-open phone communication (probably without the ability to do so)

    3. Raising money in the continental United States.

    Trump didn’t say anyone was lazy.

    Sammy Finkelman (a784d8)

  337. Overview of Federal Efforts to Prepare for and Respond to Hurricane Maria

    A lot of things happened across the USG before Trump’s 9/25 tweet and before GEN Buchanan, the DOD military liaison to FEMA, moved forward to the military HQ his one-star had set up to push harder on restoring rebuilding the island’s infrastructure.

    As a survivor of multiple hurricanes and the devastation they bring I recognize the mayor’s frustration that comes from not knowing when the power and the normalcy it brings is coming back. I also recognize the frustration that comes from the loss of normal communication and the uncertainty that comes from why the heck somebody can’t do a better job doing ________. I also recognize the overwrought hysteria she brings to her TV interviews which doesn’t appear to be shared by the people working behind her or the people walking and driving the streets of San Juan behind her in her 9/29 8AM CNN Newday interview.

    The devastation is enormous and will take months-not days to overcome but the federal response is also enormous as FEMA’s website chronicles – facts that are overlooked while politicians engage in lobbing insults at one another. Reviewing the timeline and supporting documentation, most of what the mayor was complaining about is refuted by the facts.

    crazy (d99a88)

  338. I’m sorry – I meant 346 & 347 not 316 and 317.

    The New York Daily News also has another artile which say that the commander of the Recovery Field Office for Puerto Rico at the U.S. Corps of Engineers, Col. James DeLapp says that the siuation now reminds him of what Iraq looked like after the 2003 war. That makes sense because the United States knocked out Iraq’s electrical system during that war. The difference is though that the U.S. bombed key intallations, but here key installations like power plants and electrical substations are mostly Ok – it’s hw wires tht have been knocked down.

    95% of the island’s residents (or customers?) remain without electricity, and more than half without water, or at least water the way it is supposed to be. Only about 10% of cell phone towers are working. Food, water, medical and other supplies remain stuck in port because of a shortage of drivers [and I don’t think that means, or that Trump meant to say, that drivers were lazy] and of fuel and passable roads.

    A lot of gas stations are still not open – only 714 out of approximately 1,100. (Many that have been running out of fuel the past week and there are long lines, and so what’s been happening is that when there is no more gasoline, some cars stay in place so they’ll be first for the next delivery the next day. In Loiza they waited 10 hours for gas. I don’t know if that’s between deliveries or the time it took for someone to get to the head of the line. Of course while people are standing in line for food or gas they can’t do much of anything else.)

    Slightly under half of the island’s 456 supermarkets are open (this is all probably as of Friday maybe) but many are low on stock.

    Only a few of Puerto Rico’s 69 hospitals have generators operating at full power, and dozens of critically ill patients have been airlifted. Even hospitals that have generators don’t know that they are going to have fuel. They only get 2 or 3 days worth at a time – they can also try to stretch it out, of course. Good parts of the electrical grid might be out of commission for months.

    Sammy Finkelman (a784d8)

  339. 284. – “I bet it did, yes.

    I’m not that target audience, by the way. Your snide and nasty implication to the contrary.”

    What’s snide and nasty about pointing out that you’ve both been played, Dana calling the mayor “desperate and distraught” and facing a “herculean task” (like stopping the interviews and t-shirt printing to making her way to the FEMA office?), all to make another Trump is “petty” post?

    Played. You both were the exact target audience.

    harkin (166824)

  340. Having just spent a week without municipal power and digging out from downed trees and branches Irma saw fit to fling all over town destroying utility transmission and distribution but sparing the power generation facility. After the first 72 hours the single biggest problem is the lack of communication and the uncertainty it brings particularly answering the “when” question – when are the streets going to be open – when is the power coming back – when is the bubbling lift station gonna stop dumping raw sewage out of the manholes, etc. You can have all the battery or generator powered radios and TVs in the world but if local officials aren’t regularly briefing local radio/TV you’re left dependent on the neighborhood rumor chain. Scrolling through the online Maria photos I see countless examples of Puerto Ricans doing the same thing we did which is clear the branches and debris from the roads that you can to allow the first responders and emergency supply distributors to get to where they are most needed.

    Our federal, state and community emergency response team were well organized and efficient in managing the community response and recovery operations but their lack of regular public briefings left us simmering in the dark – that’s the number one item I’d critique them for.

    Comparing available information with media reports it seems clear the same applies to Puerto Rico leading to the confusion and resentment evident in the San Juan mayor’s interviews. The common wealth and local officials should be on the air on a fixed schedule updating the public on what’s being done and explaining what to expect about what hasn’t happened yet.

    Meanwhile I’ve still got branches to trim and clear while much of the yard waste mountains remain waiting for pickup.

    crazy (d99a88)

  341. 353 – Crazy – your post just made me think of something unique about Puerto Rico.

    A lot of the utility lines are “in easement”, meaning they run along the back and/or sides of private residences. Back when I was doing a utility audit on the island getting to these poles was impossible because so many properties were mini-fortresses (think of an iron security screen door built along the entire property footage). Entire residential street frontages were basically iron bars.

    The electric company had HUGE lift trucks with gigantic arms so they could park in front of the houses and swing the bucket OVER the homes to get at the lines.

    I can only think this will impede and not enhance restoration efforts.

    harkin (be4c6e)

  342. my sister just got her harvey trash picked up last week

    but she already got her check from insurance and she’ll be made whole more or less

    her first thing was a temporary fence for so the wuppers could go out back and get eaten alive by mosquitos

    she lost her deep freeze but that’s ok she hadn’t filled it with any moo for awhile

    then she made king ranch chicken

    she didn’t get any t-shirts made

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  343. ??

    mayor trigglypuff meets twice daily with both MSNBC and a rotating assortment of CC Jake tapper fake news propaganda sluts

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  344. huh

    *CNN* Jake tapper fake news propaganda sluts i mean

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  345. Thank you for that link, crazy. AS I read it, until Sept 27, the military response was limited to the existing National Guard, some Coast Guard assets, and the Kearsage and the Oak Hill — which were covering both Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands. The DOD expanded its response on Sept 27 by ordering in additional assets that are arriving this weekend.

    I’m sure it is difficult to get things accomplished in Puerto Rico, which has a poor government and suffered devastating physical damage. In that sense, it is similar to New Orleans and Katrina. At some point it makes sense to point out to Puerto Ricans that their debt, corruption, and government inefficiency were contributors to their suffering. But we know those things, too, and we should also know that more So good be needed in Puerto Rico.

    I agree the Mayor’s statement and demeanor was overwrought and not helpful, but politicians using overwrought, inflammatory rhetoric seems to be the order of the day.

    DRJ (15874d)

  346. you can imagine though that foreign countries like Mayor Trigglypuff’s “small island nation” are very sensitive when a bunch of foreign warships just show up on their doorstep

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  347. Good point Harkin. We learned it takes about an hour to reconnect a broken line and about 4 hours to set and connect a broken pole after the roads (or alleyways) are cleared enough to get to it. Our 3 local crews were augmented by others who were brought in as they could be used rather than brought in all at once to sit until they could get to work. From everything I see that’s exactly what the Commonwealth and Feds are doing but PR’s level of destruction is much, much greater and going to take a lot longer. As others have noted restoring the status quo would be inadequate so they’re undoubtedly going to end up with a largely entirely new and updated electrical system on somebody else’s dime.

    Regular radio/TV updates at fixed times they can tune to is what Puerto Ricans need not overwrought fear-mongering by an overwrought public official. Desperate calls about dying and starving people who are neither dying or starving doesn’t help anyone. Every additional relief worker added to the island also requires food and shelter – a point that seems to be lost on the mayor.

    crazy (d99a88)

  348. ““small island nation” are very sensitive when a bunch of foreign warships just show up on their doorstep”

    When I was there (2006) the local political chatterers celebrated that they had kicked the US Navy out of Vieques and Roosevelt Roads.

    Now maybe not so much.

    harkin (be4c6e)

  349. independencia! yanqui go home spurtled Mayor Trigglypuff as she ventured once more into the dark and swirling waters to steep her ladybits in raw sewage

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  350. Senator MArco Rubio was on Face the Nation. He said things have started to turn around since probably Thursday night when general buchanan got there. But when things are done right it still takes afew days to see the results. It was/is Marco Rubio’s opinion that only the military had the logistical capability to handle this thing. He also said that there will time later to figure who is more to blame or what could have done better.

    At first things were done like with Texas and Florida, where the federal government waits for local authorities to tell them what they need. That model did not work in Puerto Rico. The phrase Marco Rubio said he used was aid was getting to Puerto Rico, but not to Puerto Ricans.

    The government of Puerto Rico was using a hub and spoke distribution system that relied on (78) munipalities – but the municipalities were in many cases not themselves functioning. OK now I wonder did someone want to make sure the proper politicians in Puerto Rico got the proper credit? Or is there no other way anybody knows how to do things?

    There are some 3,000 shipping containers in San Juan. Today or yesterday about 300 or 400 of them went out. FEMA went out and bought some of the supplies so they could distribute it. I guess that shows the military influence.

    A reporter who happens to come from Puerto Rico and who has family there – named Dominich? was on NBC’s Meet the Press. He said the problem with the politics in Puerto Rico is that everyhing is about the issue of status – commonwealth or statehood or independence [which actually only gets about 5% support – SF] and whoever can make the most eloquent argument for their position gets elected, but that doesn’t help with the ability to run things.

    On one of the programs it was mentioned that there was a hospital in the last week that called in the middle of the night and said they were within 2 hours of running out of fuel for their generator. That person didn’t say what happened. Did they get it? Did they not get it? If so, was the curfew a factor? Was the estimate wrong? Did they shut off lights and save something for vital needs? What, what?

    Sammy Finkelman (a784d8)

  351. We’re on the same page DRJ. Placing more supplies and people on the island beforehand would have left them at the mercy of Maria as well. FEMA’s doing a much better job than they’re getting credit for because of this silly catfight. Thankfully the deathtoll is remarkably low and hopefully will remain low given the widespread destruction of roads and structures.

    crazy (d99a88)

  352. 361. crazy (d99a88) — 10/1/2017 @ 9:04 am <block As others have noted restoring the status quo would be inadequate so they’re undoubtedly going to end up with a largely entirely new and updated electrical system on somebody else’s dime.

    Regular radio/TV updates at fixed times they can tune to is what Puerto Ricans need not overwrought fear-mongering by an overwrought public official. Desperate calls about dying and starving people who are neither dying or starving doesn’t help anyone. Every additional relief worker added to the island also requires food and shelter – a point that seems to be lost on the mayor.

    Sammy Finkelman (a784d8)

  353. Sorry, scratch silly. it detracts from the point

    crazy (d99a88)

  354. As others have noted restoring the status quo would be inadequate so they’re undoubtedly going to end up with a largely entirely new and updated electrical system on somebody else’s dime.

    The bondholders who hold much of the debt of Puerto Rico’s bankrupt electric utility (which used to give free power to municipalities among other things) are going to put up a lot of money (not just because their investment is worthless without it) but because there’s some sort of a pre-existing federal program (that doesn’t require new legislation) that pays something like 75% of the cost of an upgrade if the local utlity pays approximately 25%. I need to find that newws article again.

    Every additional relief worker added to the island also requires food and shelter – a point that seems to be lost on the mayor.

    What they’ve been doing in Key West – part of which was as destroyed by Irma as Puerto Rico was by Maria – is flying aid workers and out every day, so they sleep somewhere else in Florida. And of course a lot of people evacuated. There’s now an evacuation in Puerto Rico – from a place where I guess the chances of catastrophic flood are less than 15%

    Thankfully the deathtoll is remarkably low and hopefully will remain low given the widespread destruction of roads and structures.

    It’s not so easy for people to get killed by a hurricane. A lot of shelters are good enough, and even out in the open it’s almost a freak accident if somebody gets killed. People try (and usually succeed) in staying alive. Earthquakes are much worse.

    But it is pretty easy to knock down wires and cell phone towers and make trouble on roads (that nobody was on during the time of the hihtest winds of the hurricane)

    Sammy Finkelman (a784d8)

  355. you can imagine though that foreign countries like Mayor Trigglypuff’s “small island nation” are very sensitive when a bunch of foreign warships just show up on their doorstep

    happyfeet (28a91b) — 10/1/2017 @ 8:54 am

    The Kearsage, Oak Hill and Wasp spent the first week after the hurricane at the Virgin Islands, not Puerto Rico. The local newspaper ran a story about their contributions. It also notes that the local government and FEMA are jointly in charge of the recovery efforts, and it is their job to call for military support. That does not seem to have happened in Puerto Rico for a week.

    DRJ (15874d)

  356. I understand how hard this is, and also that FEMA is stretched thin after hurricanes in Texas, Florida/the Keys, the Virgin Islands, and Puerto Rico. FEMA promptly asked for military support in all but Puerto Rico, and it was given and made a difference — especially in the Virgin Islands. They don’t seemed to have asked for military assistance in Puerto Rico for several days.

    DRJ (15874d)

  357. Thankfully the deathtoll is remarkably low and hopefully will remain low given the widespread destruction of roads and structures.

    ?

    Mayor Trigglypuff and the wanton CNN Jake Tapper fake news propaganda sluts want you to know that this is NOT a “good news” story

    perhaps another t-shirt is necessary

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  358. how many people make a genocide?

    mg (31009b)

  359. our laughably incompetent John McCain Navy can’t just deploy at the drop of a hat

    #1 regulations require all sailors to be provisioned with no less than a 30-day supply of their preferred hormones

    #2 there can be no cargo ships within a 600 nautical mile radius of the destination – and after a hurricane this takes time, and not all of this process is under military control, so sometimes there’s just inherently a bit of a waiting game

    #3 the new No More Tears policy necessitates advanced scouting and patrols to ensure there’s no Iranian boats in the operational “safe place” zone

    this is all for the welfare and safety of our tatters – they can’t be effective if they’re not focused 100% on mission

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  360. I need a link for 373, hf. The fact that the Navy was in the Virgin Islands undercuts everything you say.

    DRJ (15874d)

  361. people also forget that when you involve the corrupt gold-plated US Military in anything, everything involved is going to cost 10 times more than it would if you relied on a civilian effort

    and so the question has to be asked and answered conscientiously:

    is a remote ungrateful and hateful little island nation like Mayor Trigglypuff’s puerto rico really worth the expense?

    and why is the international community not doing more?

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  362. the international community hates our guts

    mg (31009b)

  363. perhaps we round up all the tree hugging eco warrior climate change
    junkies and unload them on Puerto Rico where they have no electricity

    mg (31009b)

  364. Our military can do things no one else can do. God bless them.

    DRJ (15874d)

  365. a day late and a dollar short our military is under president Trump, just read the papers or blogs – or read the mayor boobs chest

    mg (31009b)

  366. Our military can do things no one else can do.

    for $600 billion dollars a year you’d kinda hope so

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  367. 375. happyfeet (28a91b) — 10/1/2017 @ 10:10 am

    people also forget that when you involve the corrupt gold-plated US Military in anything, everything involved is going to cost 10 times more than it would if you relied on a civilian effort

    That depends. That depends. It’s probably exactly the opposite here. What the military money on is design and production of something new. There are different kinds of people involved. Of course it does cost more if you could, or were allowed to, rely on volunteers.

    Sammy Finkelman (a784d8)

  368. happyfeet:

    and why is the international community not doing more?

    That’s probably because it is included with the United States. The United States pays for practically everything in this world – well not quite. In return, the U.S. gets the freedom to make decisions on its own without having to deal with somebody else’s stupid decisions. If it doesn’t want to.

    There were some efforts made to do something in the case of Katrina in 2005, like with the Netherlands/Holland, but I don’t know of any offers of help came in for the hurricanes this year. Maybe they did and the media didn’t cover it.

    That raises the question:

    What’s going on with Dominica or Barbuda? Also destroyed. I think by Irma, though. U.S. news outlets don’t seem much interested in them now, now that all the tourists are evacuated. The media actually didn’t cover Puerto Rico very fast.

    Two of the three U.S Virgin Islands, and maybe all three, are also heavily devastated, and that got more attention, but their population (and area) is much less than that of Puerto Rico – 3.4 million people they say (does that include the people who left Puerto Rico in the last two years?)

    Sammy Finkelman (a784d8)

  369. do you think we’ll end up with an honest approximation of how much this ends up costing?

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  370. Population decline in Puerto Rico – and this is all before the hurricanes:

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-26/puerto-rico-s-mass-migration-puts-florida-in-play-for-2016

    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/03/24/historic-population-losses-continue-across-puerto-rico/

    Among Puerto Rico’s counties that saw the largest population losses between 2010 and 2015 was San Juan, home to the island’s capital city and largest metro area. That county’s population declined by 40,000 people (-10%) to 355,000, by far the largest numeric drop of any county. Nine other counties saw population declines of at least 10% during this time….

    Overall, the island’s population was an estimated 3.47 million in 2015, down 334,000 from 2000 – a 9% decline. Three-quarters of this population loss has taken place since 2010. Puerto Rico’s population declined by 7% from 2010 to 2015, compared with a 2% loss from 2000 to 2010.

    Population growth was once the norm in Puerto Rico. The island’s population grew by 10% from 1980 to 1990, and by 8% from 1990 to 2000. But as the effects of a decade-long economic recession have mounted, Puerto Ricans – who are U.S. citizens at birth – have increasingly moved to the U.S. mainland, with many settling in Florida. In addition, fertility on the island has declined in recent years, adding to population loss.

    I guess 3,400,000 is the current estimate. A 7% decline from 2010 to 3,470,000 wold mean about 3,731,000 in 2010.

    Sammy Finkelman (a784d8)

  371. Sure seems like it would’ve been helpful to still have a base there.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  372. i think i read where Barbuda’s uninhabited now

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  373. Seems like the distribution bottleneck is the result of a PR Teamsters strike. The Union is using the tragedy as a bargaining chip.

    The ports are jammed with relief supplies and ships are waiting off-shore to unload, but the local Teamsters refuse to deliver life-saving food, water, and fuel till they get a new contract guaranteeing more money, better health coverage, and enhanced retire packages.

    But, our media and other two-faced Dems would rather look the other way, ignore the greedy Teamsters depraved indifference to the life-threatening plight of their fellow islanders, and pretend it’s all Donald J Trump’s fault.

    ropelight (051652)

  374. And that’s the rest of the story…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  375. time to head to the next f-u true post

    mg (31009b)

  376. trump post

    mg (31009b)

  377. So in fact, it was the reality that our coast guard and navy are overattetched, doing relief operations, another gift of the sequester.

    narciso (d1f714)

  378. 372. mg (31009b) — 10/1/2017 @ 9:57 am

    how many people make a genocide? </blockquote A genocide has to be on purpose. As for the number, it could be maybe even 50 people if it’s a small enough group, but probably nobody would take notice unless there’s several thousand people affected.

    I think that according to the genocide treaty it’s enough if the goal is to eliminate a population group from a locality without even killing any. That’s the treaty. What’s going on in Burma is definitely genocide by any definition (not mere “ethnic cleansing”) and I think the goal is simply to get rid of the Rohingya in western Burma.

    See now this:

    http://www.smh.com.au/world/torching-of-rohingya-villages-continues-in-myanmar-despite-denials-20170923-gyncga.html

    Pressuring the Myanmar government to stop the flow of refugees is only pressuring them to kill a higher percentage and to cover it up better. The only possible solution now is sending in a military force to occupy a piece of Burma, or resettling them maybe in Syria (as peasants they won’t suffer too much under Assad, and Assad needs to replace his people and elect another, having dissolved his people a la Bertolt Brecht.)

    Creating, say, a new independent Rohingya state would open the field for al Qaeda to seize control. There are many Rohingya in Pakistan, but they lied to get in, or to stay, claiming to be Bengali and have arrived from Bangladesh when it was still East Pakistan. This migration stopped by the early 1980s. The whole thing is an open secret. In recent years the Pakistani government started to crack down on false identity documents, and not renewing them, and is leaving people without legal income. But the Pakistani military might be interested in creating a cat’s paw or two, like they did with Afghanistan and for that matter, al Qaeda, and they started to do this with the Rohingya, which has probably motivated the acts of genocide.

    India and Bangladesh could be the principal occupiers of western Burma, but to do so against the consent of Myanmar government requires at last backing of the United States, and some threat of military force. For instance, the homes of people in the military might be targeted by a few cruise missiles (after proper warning to evacuate)

    Sammy Finkelman (a784d8)

  379. The rohyinga are not ancient sammeh, as that bostum link explained, and the dirty little secret is china is the beneficiary of resources in arrakhine.

    narciso (d1f714)

  380. The mayor of San Juan walking around with a bullhorn like Joe Clark makes as much sense as Tom Brady selling peanuts while the Patriots defense is playing. What happens when if she finds someone? Does the camera operator have a radio or a satphone and GPS beacons or IR beacons?

    Too much Capricorn One in this.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  381. You know it was a phony photo-op, and I know it was a phony photo-op, and the media know it was phony photo-op, but the people who get their news from the media will not be told that it was a phony photo-op.

    nk (dbc370)

  382. Last week I helped my friend stay put. It’s a lot easier’n helpin’ ’em move. I just went over to his house and made sure that he did not start to load sh*t into a truck.- Mitch Hedberg

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  383. I believe Trump can invoke the Taft-Hartley Act to suspend the Teamsters strike. But first he’d have to find a competent lawyer.

    nk (dbc370)

  384. You know it was a phony photo-op, and I know it was a phony photo-op, and the media know it was phony photo-op, but the people who get their news from the media will not be told that it was a phony photo-op.

    shouldn’t someone tell Mr. P though

    i know if i were him i’d want people to tell me

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  385. Thank you, Sammy.

    mg (31009b)

  386. 387. ropelight (051652) — 10/1/2017 @ 1:10 am

    Seems like the distribution bottleneck is the result of a PR Teamsters strike. …

    The ports are jammed with relief supplies and ships are waiting off-shore to unload, but the local Teamsters refuse to deliver life-saving food, water, and fuel till they get a new contract guaranteeing more money, better health coverage, and enhanced retire packages.

    I didn’t read this, but this kind of thing sounds very possible.

    A question is, if so, how did everybody miss this story? Is the language barrier so great for the reporters?

    The Teamsters are the mising truck drivers, right? What percentge of them anyway are Teamsters? Did the Teamsters threaten people they call scabs?

    Sammy Finkelman (a784d8)

  387. the communications situation is so genuinely dire still teh CNN Jake Tapper fake news propaganda sluts have an extraordinarily free hand at crafting whatever narrative they like

    much more so than during Katrina even

    President Trump should accept this measured grace and understanding, but he seems to be going another way

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  388. oops President Trump should accept this *with* measured grace and understanding

    ugh i hate when i forget entire words it’s not how i was raised

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  389. I’m not convinced there is a strike. It could just be problems communicating with truckers and organizing relief efforts. At least one logistics company, Crowley of Jacksonville FL/Puerto Rico, says it has prioritized delivery of FEMA cargo, and FEMA is now providing food and water to 60 Puerto Rican communities. Crowley says the cargo on the docks is not FEMA cargo, which probably includes commercial cargo and cargo donated by charities for relief efforts.

    DRJ (15874d)

  390. plus there’s lots of puerto rican gangsters

    you fill up your truck and then

    well you hear them first

    it sounds like people snapping their fingers

    then all these puerto ricans start dancing around your truck and they’re singing and dancing and they take all your stuffs!

    they’re called The Sharks and they mean business

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  391. To clarify, Crowley says the cargo on the docks is not FEMA cargo because the FEMA cargo is not being delayed at the docks. Instead, it is being trucked to FEMA receiving centers in various communities.

    But it is also true that a Sept 25 Crowley press release noted distribution problems with truckers and with recipients:

    09/25/2017 04:41 pm

    With more than 3,000 loads of food, supplies and other cargo on its terminal in San Juan, Puerto Rico, and more on the way, executives with said today the key to providing relief to citizens impacted by Hurricane Maria will be expediting local transportation and distribution of the cargo.

    “We want to get goods to people as quickly and efficiently as possible, and to do that we need our customers to work with their truckers to take delivery of their cargo,” said Jose “Pache” Ayala, vice president, Puerto Rico services. “Once that begins to happen with greater frequency, we will need customers to unload and return empty containers so that we can bring more cargo to the island, which is suffering and in great need of life’s necessities.”

    “The road to recovery starts with people making personal sacrifices for the greater good,” Ayala said. “Just as many of our employees have stepped up to unload vessels under difficult circumstances, we are hopeful that shippers and their truckers will act quickly to help get cargo to the people who need it most.”

    That is vague enough to mean several things. It could signal trucking problems, including truckers not willing to work, and even problems with people taking loads for personal use instead of public assistance.

    DRJ (15874d)

  392. Maybe we could pull some MRAPS away from Baltimore and Ferguson, MO.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  393. “Col. Valle is a firsthand witness of the U.S. Department of Defense (DoD) response supporting FEMA in Puerto Rico, and as a Puerto Rican himself with family members living in the devastation, his passion for the people is second to none. “It’s just not true,” Col. Valle says of the major disconnect today between the perception of a lack of response from Washington verses what is really going on on the ground. “I have family here. My parents’ home is here. My uncles, aunts, cousins, are all here. As a Puerto Rican, I can tell you that the problem has nothing to do with the U.S. military, FEMA, or the DoD.” . . .

    “The aid is getting to Puerto Rico. The problem is distribution. The federal government has sent us a lot of help; moving those supplies, in particular, fuel, is the issue right now,” says Col. Valle. Until power can be restored, generators are critical for hospitals and shelter facilities and more. But, and it’s a big but, they can’t get the fuel to run the generators.

    They have the generators, water, food, medicine, and fuel on the ground, yet the supplies are not moving across the island as quickly as they’re needed.

    “It’s a lack of drivers for the transport trucks, the 18 wheelers. Supplies we have. Trucks we have. There are ships full of supplies, backed up in the ports, waiting to have a vehicle to unload into. However, only 20% of the truck drivers show up to work. These are private citizens in Puerto Rico, paid by companies that are contracted by the government,” says Col. Valle.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/us-military-on-puerto-rico-the-problem-is-distribution_us_59ce5906e4b0f3c468060dee?ncid=engmodushpmg00000003

    Colonel Haiku (43fb26)

  394. Haiku: came in to post same thing…

    The question now is…….how to blame Trump????

    harkin (be4c6e)

  395. looks like army clown russell honore’s got some glory days angst going on

    poor little man

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  396. Here’s the next paragraph of Haiku’s article. Wonder why it wasn’t posted.

    “There should be zero blame on the drivers. They can’t get to work, the infrastructure is destroyed, they can’t get fuel themselves, and they can’t call us for help because there’s no communication. The will of the people of Puerto Rico is off the charts. The truck drivers have families to take care of, many of them have no food or water. They have to take care of their family’s needs before they go off to work, and once they do go, they can’t call home,” explains Col. Valle.

    Davethulhu (3a2442)

  397. 400, if that’s true, shoot them on sight, then separate out those with a false CDL from the chaff on the outgoing ICE flights from the mainland and have them drive the trucks.

    urbanleftbehind (e8c03f)

  398. god helps those who help themselves true story

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  399. Not terrible difficult to find:

    Major U.S. labor unions are organizing truck drivers to help with relief efforts in Puerto Rico as the island continues to grapple with the devastation wrought by Hurricane Maria last week.
    The Teamsters union and the AFL-CIO, a federation of more than 50 unions, are working together to recruit truckers to travel to Puerto Rico and help distribute a stockpile of relief supplies

    http://money.cnn.com/2017/09/30/news/teamsters-union-puerto-rico-hurricane-maria/index.html

    Don’t let me stop you from wishing death on people though.

    Davethulhu (3a2442)

  400. Not a good time for a Teamster’s strike, though, Squid🐙🐙🐙

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  401. It’s a strike, Chulthu.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  402. lol teamsters

    they would’ve had a plan in place already if this was a real thing

    scroll and scroll

    all teamster piggies care about is slopping piggy teamsters

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  403. Sounds like a good project for that San Juan mayor.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  404. It’s not a strike, you just have poor reading comprehension.

    Davethulhu (3a2442)

  405. To be fair blowing a .04 will get a CDL holder a DUI and without potable water beer might be all there is to drink . During a winter heating crisis the governor or president eased back on some time restrictions on drivers hauling propane. Maybe some similar Gordian knot could be cut.

    Is there any plan or drill for natural disaster on PR? I mean, most families or employers will tell you to go meet up at X when stuff goes down. Was there ever a plan to bring Mohhamed to the mountain of plastic water bottles?

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  406. Is there any plan or drill for natural disaster on PR?

    man you funny man make me laugh hahaha

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  407. The Puerto Rican Teamsters Union, Frente Amplio, is refusing to move the product, Cthulhu, do your homework.

    Here’s a little something to help wash the cares away…

    http://youtu.be/bcvF6SI0A8s

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  408. Hard to get a plan together, Pinandpuller when your busy designing, printing t-shirts to advertise on your chest People are dying.
    Damn, she could be a fortune teller.

    mg (31009b)

  409. it’s just such a stark contrast – the can-do spirit of texas and florida set against the helplessness and whining of puerto rico

    Mayor Trigglypuff educated a lot of people about who these people are

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  410. 419, im all good with that waiver so long as it’s not this swill

    urbanleftbehind (e8c03f)

  411. someone please please please invite nasty-ass Mayor Trigglypuff to the 2020 Dem convention

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  412. The Governor says military aid is increasing.

    DRJ (15874d)

  413. it was always ever going to

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  414. It may just seem this way but whenever there is some disaster in a city or state run by Democrats the mayor or governor or whatever spend more time whining and complaining to the media than they do helping, planning or cleaning up the mess. Plus, they send an awful lot of time and energy trying to blame someone, anyone, from a different party who is at least 1000 miles away. And as mg noted if the mayor has the time and resource’s to print shirts she is guilty of fraud and corruption. When a ditzy b!tch goes out of her way to blame a president for her local disaster I have to wonder if she’s afraid the corruption will surface.

    I read somewhere that 1/3 of the labor on the island are government employees. That cannot be fiscally supported. There is no way two out of three people can support the business of a healthy economy and pay all the taxes necessary to maintain the current government staff and those who are and will retire. Impossible.

    Rev.Hoagie® (6bbda7)

  415. spending literally billions upon billions of dollars on an inconsequential and bankrupt third world country that hates everything we stand for?

    this feels dirty

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  416. They actually call themselves the broad front, that was the political party of the for tupamaro, re that other thread, that welcomed the gitmo detainees

    narciso (d1f714)

  417. 10-1,75% of those govt. workers are on a cruise ship heading for EBT America.

    mg (31009b)

  418. The group, headed by Puerto Rican Independence Party legislators Juan Dalmau and Denis Márquez, also includes former independent gubernatorial candidate Alexandra Lúgaro and Popular Democratic Party (PDP) Rep. Manuel Natal, who said he was authorized to announce that the vice president of his party, San Juan Mayor Carmen Yulín Cruz Soto, supports free association.

    ;…]

    In a group statement read by Natal, it said that while “keeping our particular identities, embedded in our unshakable nationality, the time for those who believe in national sovereignty has arrived–some through independence and others through free association–to make common cause in the face of the assimilational onslaught and demand the tools and political powers Puerto Rico needs to build the prosperous future we yearn for.”

    these people do not want to be americans

    they hate us

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  419. which would explain the murderous terrorists they sent over to kill us i guess

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  420. wonder what gary gulred thinks

    mg (31009b)

  421. he’s gone dark huh

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  422. probably banned

    mg (31009b)

  423. I probably have a lot more in common with a Democrat who believes in big-government ideas I reject, but who is honest and who angrily rejects the loudmouths, extremists, and assholes on his own side

    I’ve heard such Democrats exist, but have never been shown convincing evidence of such. Much like Bigfoot.

    radar (e845ad)

  424. maybe he means John Kasich

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  425. Alan dershowitz and Jonathan turkey are probably in that category, miss yulin Cruz is decidedly not, I linked the roundabout way she became mayor of San Juan, in a previous thread

    The far leftists never go away

    http://nationalinterest.org/commentary/jos%C3%A9-mujica-uruguays-robin-hood-guerrillas-9066

    narciso (d1f714)

  426. Good for him, it’s about damn time. He d be President if he hadn’t try to stiff the first responders unions.

    urbanleftbehind (847a06)

  427. Asians I know feel about him, the way I feel about Charlie cheetah

    narciso (d1f714)

  428. Ahians, colloquialism for state residents, portman has nearly as much a dussapointment.

    narciso (d1f714)

  429. 403. DRJ (15874d) — 10/1/2017 @ 1:04 pm

    …At least one logistics company, Crowley of Jacksonville FL/Puerto Rico, says it has prioritized delivery of FEMA cargo…Crowley says the cargo on the docks is not FEMA cargo, which probably includes commercial cargo and cargo donated by charities for relief efforts.

    That explains something I heard on I think Face the NAtion today: That FEMA had bought 300 or 400 containers so they could be delivered.

    Now why would that make sense unless everything else was being held up? It’s either overplanning, or maybe there is an unofficial wildcat Teamsters strike with the truck drivers, however, not refusing government cargo in order to, with the complicitly of allied politicians, hide this fact from outsiders to the island, and especially, Donald Trump because maybe yes, he could invoke the Taft Hartley Act.

    But he can’t invoke the Taft Hartley Act if nobody in Washington knows about the strike or understands what’s going on here as a strike. But then it would be difficult to get an injunction here since the truck drivers have an excuse that they can’t get to work.

    The mail isn’t being delivered either in Puerto Rico. The only way to actually get anything to anybody is to get on a pplane, if they cab, and personally deliver it.

    Sammy Finkelman (3bf6ea)

  430. I’ve heard such Democrats exist, but have never been shown convincing evidence of such. Much like Bigfoot.

    aphrael is one.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  431. 433, happyfeet (28a91b) — 10/1/2017 @ 4:30 pm

    the vice president of his party, San Juan Mayor Carmen Yulín Cruz Soto…[and others decided] to make common cause in the face of the assimilational onslaught

    these people do not want to be americans

    they hate us

    No, no no. No more than the southerners who seceded in 1861 hated the rest of the United States.

    These people want to be at the top levels of political power. Even if Puerto Rico became a state, they can’t hope to win top office in the United States, and maybe not even to be a cabinet member (too much competition for one thing) so they want their own country – where they also wouldn’t have the impediment of the United States constitution or federal prosecutors getting in their way. This has nothing to do with hating the United States.

    Sammy Finkelman (3bf6ea)

  432. Patterico @445: I think radar means Democrats holding elective office.

    Sammy Finkelman (3bf6ea)

  433. i remain dubious Mr. Finkelman

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  434. 413. Quote from a CNN story posted by Davethulhu

    Major U.S. labor unions are organizing truck drivers to help with relief efforts in Puerto Rico as the island continues to grapple with the devastation wrought by Hurricane Maria last week.

    The Teamsters union and the AFL-CIO, a federation of more than 50 unions, are working together to recruit truckers to travel to Puerto Rico and help distribute a stockpile of relief supplies

    Well, that would be one way to hide the fact that there actually is a strike –I mean is it really easier to get drivers from the mainland than to find the local drivers and help them work??

    I mean, they could even bunk at their base, at least as well as continental United States based drivers.

    It could be that the Teamsters Union in Puerto Rico wouldn’t consider these kind of workers scabs, especially if they’d be only temporarily working for temporary employers, and meanwhile they buy themselves some time. and also gives just enough relief to prevent other action from being taken to stop this..

    If the Teamsters Union is recruiting them, they’d avoid employers whom the local Teamsters Union tells them to avoid. Now if this is correct, is the question.

    All this about the Jones Act, and needing more supplies and about the overwhelming percentage of drivers not being to get to work (after a week) and recruiting replacement drivers from the continental United States and and complaining about the inaction by the president and FEMA could merely be a smoke screen to hide what’s going on. They may not want to end the strike or whatever is going on..

    Sammy Finkelman (3bf6ea)

  435. happyfeet (28a91b) — 10/1/2017 @ 6:46 pm

    i remain dubious Mr. Finkelman

    There’s no reason not to think this is business, not personal.

    Sammy Finkelman (3bf6ea)

  436. as we’re doing so much to help

    i think these complaining and butthurt puerto ricans

    when they hear the national anthem

    at best they take a knee

    *at best*

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  437. Patterico, re: #445: truth gets in the way of narrative, snark, brain-damaged name-calling, and lazy nonsense. It’s all about slogans and hate these days, isn’t it?

    And the people with power at present like it that way.

    Simon Jester (d856de)

  438. is genocide a slogan or is it more of a mantra

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  439. The European version of this sideshow is here:
    https://mobile.twitter.com/EagleKeeper15/status/914656261014265859?p=v

    There was no widespread support for independence, it had to be astroturfed like occupy/antifa

    narciso (d1f714)

  440. Theer are some web sites that say there is no strike, and that the fact that the national Teamsters Union is recruiting drivers proves there is no strike, but I think that could more likely be used to prove the opposite.

    And what’s this?

    https://bigleaguepolitics.com/police-audio-mayor-carmen-yulin-not-allowing-anyone-distribute-supplies

    …A prominent truckers union linked to left-wing political parties across Latin America is reportedly intentionally blocking the deliveries from the Port of San Juan, according to multiple accounts.

    A self-identified police officer of a currently in Guaynabo [sic] called into a Spanish-language radio program to describe what happened. Jennifer Puentes published footage of the emotional, stirring interview.

    The female police officer said, “I need to pass this information out because the stuff that is being brought from the U.S. it is not being distributed. They are not allowing the Puerto Rican people to receive the donations.”

    “The mayor Carmen Yulin is not allowing anyone to distribute…We need…What us Puerto Ricans need is that the U.S. armed forces to come in and distribute the aid,” she said.

    She said that people in Florida, and “artists” are helping with the relief efforts, but she does not know how many others are helping due to having “very limited communication” on the island.

    “What else are we going to do? You tell me, what else are we going to do?”

    “But I need to speak for the people, because the people are suffering. Because I, as a cop, along with other police partners we are seeing it,” she said.

    No wonder maybe she didn’t want to co-ordinate with other mayors.

    Sammy Finkelman (3bf6ea)

  441. I probably have a lot more in common with a Democrat who believes in big-government ideas I reject, but who is honest and who angrily rejects the loudmouths, extremists, and assholes on his own side — than I have in common with the dishonest loudmouths, extremists, and assholes on “my” own side.

    And I probably have more respect for a Kapernick, who despite his inabilty to understand what has made the US and western civilization so successful, does understand the gamesmanship of power than someone with whose principles I may agree but who doesn’t understand the battle being fought. Loudmouths, extremists, and a55holes (note how P can use vulgarities but the rest of us must resort to childish deceptions) indeed.

    CFarleigh (094b61)

  442. Loudmouths, extremists, and a55holes (note how P can use vulgarities but the rest of us must resort to childish deceptions) indeed.

    Yeah, you’d think it was his site or something. Asshole!

    nk (dbc370)

  443. The trouble in Puerto Rico is lack of logistics distributing aid. The governor of PR, Rosello just announced that he had reach a deal with the Teamsters in Puerto Rico, that will allow all the thousands of containers now in San Juan to be delivered to the distribution spots.

    The union was holding up the deliveries of supplies as part of an effort to deal with other issues that Puerto Rico is dealing with. One of which was a cut on working days that was passed just prior to the hurricanes Irma and Maria, and other fees that they wanted to negotiate.

    Neo (d1c681)

  444. the governor had to make a deal with the sleazy slimy p.o.s. teamsters before they agreed to do their jobs and distribute aid to people

    wow

    teamsters these days are a whole nother level of trash

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  445. @459 got a source for that?

    Because when I google your post, it leads to an un-cited comment posted yesterday by “Islamic Rage Boy” on the Ace of Spades blog.

    Davethulhu (3a2442)

  446. Yeah, you’d think it was his site or something. Asshole!

    As noted somewhere else, this “take my ball and go home” bit is quite the childish cop-out. Hiding the thoughts and ideas that cause one too much cognitive dissonance. It’s like sticking your fingers in your hears and spouting “la-la-la I’m not listening”. And it’s not like running a blog is some huge financial burden. The time invested in the posts far exceeds the financial costs, and if it doesn’t, you’re doing it wrong.

    CFarleigh (5b282a)

  447. It’s like sticking your fingers in your hears and spouting “la-la-la I’m not listening”.

    In your case, more like walking away from an importunate panhandler.

    nk (dbc370)

  448. “see” Farleigh’s snot
    “see” Farleigh scold
    “see” Farleigh on this blog nine years old

    “some” like his snot
    “Some” like his scold
    “some,” like him, are nine years old

    felipe (b5e0f4)

  449. -make that-

    “some,” like him, on this blog are nine years old.

    Hey, I’m an old man, whaddayawant?

    felipe (b5e0f4)

  450. My OCD has kicked in:

    See Farleigh, fraught
    See Farliegh, scold
    See Farleigh, on this site, act nine years old

    Some, like him, fraught
    some, like him, scold
    some, like him, on this site, act nine years old.

    There, I feel better.

    felipe (b5e0f4)

  451. CFarleigh:

    And it’s not like running a blog is some huge financial burden.

    I think you should start a blog to express your opinions. Why burden Patterico’s blog when it’s so easy and inexpensive to start your own?

    DRJ (15874d)

  452. 459. Neo (d1c681) — 10/1/2017 @ 7:33 pm

    The governor of PR, Rosello just announced that he had reach[ed] a deal with the Teamsters in Puerto Rico, that will allow all the thousands of containers now in San Juan to be delivered to the distribution spots.

    The union was holding up the deliveries of supplies as part of an effort to deal with other issues that Puerto Rico is dealing with. One of which was a cut on working days that was passed just prior to the hurricanes Irma and Maria, and other fees that they wanted to negotiate.

    Well that proves there was a strike.

    Donald Trump actually seems to have known that, because when he read one of his tweets over again:

    Such poor leadership by thee Mayor of San Juan and others in Puerto Rico, who are not able to get their workers to help. They

    you see that it is consistent with a REFUSAL by workers to help, and not, as I thought at first, inability to get in contact with them etc.

    The only thing then is, Trump decides then to go into a riff about the (politicians in Puerto Rico?) wanting everything to be done for them and it should be a community effort (with the word “community” here not seeming to make much sense.)

    He does that instead of criticizing the Teamsters or the fecklessness of the officials in dealing with them.

    That didn’t help the people of the United States understand what is going on. He throws out some boob bait fror the bubbas instead of telling the truth.

    Maybe he was warned not to comment because that could spoil negotiations.

    Sammy Finkelman (30b6b6)

  453. I can’t find any confirmation of a strike or any deal ending a strike. Where did that come from Neo?

    DRJ (15874d)

  454. I wish that Trump would stay off his twitter account and just get down to business. I agree that it’s not always productive and almost always not Presidential. However, I do sort of understand some of what he does–George Bush didn’t respond to about 98% of the criticism directed at him–and look where that got him. All I recall is leftists and Democrats referring to him as a chimp, a Nazi, a babykiller, etc.; the media joined in; and the narrative never changed.
    So long as the mainstream media takes up the cause against Trump and all republicans or conservatives, it doesn’t make any sense to just accept their narrative. Otherwise, tomorrow, we’ll be picking up newspapers and magazines (if print still exists) to read about all of the people the evil President let die in the streets while the ineffective mayor gets a pass.

    ROCHF (877dba)

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