Patterico's Pontifications

9/21/2017

Jimmy Kimmel’s Dopey Sketch on Graham-Cassidy Misses the Point

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 10:00 am

A Republican U.S. Senator proposed a “Jimmy Kimmel” test for whether a U.S. healthcare plan is acceptable, and now (surprise!) Jimmy Kimmel is finding the latest Republican plan doesn’t meet it. Since we have now made a late-night talk show host an arbiter of health care, I guess we have to talk about Kimmel’s rant against Graham-Cassidy last night. I’m going to skip ahead to the unfunny sketch that supposedly illustrates the problem with Graham-Cassidy.

The “joke” of the sketch, for those who don’t want to sit through a painful two minutes of preachy and unfunny nonsense, is that Jimmy orders a black coffee. The barista pours it into a cup with no bottom, and the coffee goes all over the table. The barista explains that the cup decides whether it holds coffee or not. Hilarious, right? Graham-Cassidy: roasted!

To me, the irony here lies in these lines near the end of the sketch:

KIMMEL: You know what? I’ll just go to another coffee place. Thank you.

BARISTA: This is how all coffee shops are now. If you want your coffee in a cup, go to Canada.

Kimmel’s proposed solution is what we normally do when we are unsatisfied with a product or service: we go elsewhere. But Kimmel and his lefty pals are on a road away from choice, and towards exactly the sort of inadequate one-size-fits-nobody (except for the politically influential) service that government is so famous for.

This, by the way, is why I respectfully dissent from the views of some (like Joe Cunningham) that it is important that we pass Graham-Cassidy. Meh. I don’t think it matters at all. The only health care system that could work is one that depends on actual choice, which is only possible in a free market. But clearly Americans — and consequently their representatives — aren’t up for the sort of solutions that this would require. (I have discussed free-market alternatives for health care before –for example, here). Whether we tinker with a losing situation in this way or that way, in my view, matters little.

As I have said before, I think Rand Paul should be commended for standing against such tinkering. To whose who say: “Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good” I respond: “Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the chance to take joint responsibility for a socialistic program that will ruin 1/6 of the economy.” Or: “Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the concession that this tiny meaningless improvement to the status quo is the best we’ll ever do.

Getting back to Kimmel’s sketch: the notion that Canada is the ideal is also laughable. The conservative rag The Huffington Post in June published a piece titled Why Canadians Are Increasingly Seeking Medical Treatment Abroad:

While Americans have been crossing the border for years in search of cheaper medications, it turns out there are a growing number of Canadians seeking medical treatment south of their border, raiding their bank accounts and choosing to pay for treatment instead of being treated through their nationalized health care system. In 2014, more than 50,000 Canadians left the country for medical treatment, a 25 percent increase from the previous year. A similar number left the country for treatment in 2015.

Why would someone pay for something they are entitled to receive for free?

According to The National Post, the answer comes down to a choice between time and money ― a choice that’s only available to those privileged enough to be able to finance expensive out-of-pocket medical expenses up front.

If we had a “Barista Theater” sketch about this, Jimmy would order a coffee today, and the barista would say: “Absolutely, sir! I’ll have that ready for you in a month!”

The only answer is free choice. Kimmel’s sketch implicitly recognizes this, but doesn’t face the implications of that fact. In that way, Jimmy Kimmel is like the rest of America — which knows it wants a better system, but has been lied to about how to achieve that.

I’m done banging my head against the wall. I’m like the guy who sees the car crash coming and is powerless to stop it. The best I can do is gear up for helping the victims. But the crash is happening.

[Cross-posted at RedState and The Jury Talks Back.]

102 Responses to “Jimmy Kimmel’s Dopey Sketch on Graham-Cassidy Misses the Point”

  1. Is Jimmy Kimmel the guy who played the Bundys’ neighbor’s first husband in Married With Children?

    nk (dbc370)

  2. anything i could say would just be stealing from Mr. Roger Simon’s ideas about moral narcissism

    This is a narcissism of political and social thought, a narcissism that evolved as religion declined, a narcissism of ideas and attitudes, a narcissism of “I know best,” of “I believe therefore I am.”

    It is our identity tied up inextricably to our belief system in a way that brooks no examination.

    It is a narcissism of groupthink that makes you assume you are better than you are because you have the same received and conventional ideas as your peers, a mutual reward system not unlike the French concept of BTBG — bon type, bon genre — but taken to a national extreme.

    There is only one way to be, one kind of idea and attitude to have. There are no others. Why even bother to look, consider, or try to understand them?

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  3. Republicans still struggle to promote a credible ownership culture largely because they refuse to wrestle honestly with the hard cases; the situations in which market forces fail to allocate value effectively. Medical care is probably the most frustrating example since it stubbornly resists market solutions and affects everyone deeply.

    Health care is not a market. It lacks any of the vital features of a market. Treating health care like a market means living and dying without modern medicine. To advance a culture based on opportunity rather than government dependence, we need an alternative to state-owned health care that keeps key decisions in personal hands, preserves market triggers where appropriate, and rids us of the strangling influence of the massive federal bureaucracy. Republicans cannot do this without abandoning some cherished fantasies about the unquestionable, divinely-ordained righteousness of markets.

    In a free market, goods and services are allocated through transactions based on mutual consent. No one is forced to buy from a particular supplier. No one is forced to engage in any transaction at all. In a free market, no transactions occur if a price cannot be agreed.

    The medical industry exists almost entirely to serve people who have been rendered incapable of representing their own interests in an adversarial transaction. When I need health services I often need them in a way that is quite different from my desire for a good quality television or a fine automobile. As I lie unconscious under a bus, I am in no position to shop for the best provider of ambulance services at the most reasonable price. All personal volition is lost. Whatever happens next, it will not be a market transaction.”
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/chrisladd/2017/03/07/there-is-never-a-free-market-in-health-care/amp/

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  4. Nah, it’s just people who should know better take the inane ramblings of a gentleman of dubious masculinity and possibly perverse and unsanitary sexual practices seriously just because it’s shown on television. I can’t blame them, so do I.

    nk (dbc370)

  5. What is meant by the phrase to promote the general welfare?

    General Welfare. The concern of the government for the health, peace, morality, and safety of its citizens. Providing for the welfare of the general public is a basic goal of government. The preamble to the U.S. Constitution cites promotion of the general welfare as a primary reason for the creation of the Constitution …
    General Welfare legal definition of General Welfare – Legal Dictionary

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  6. As more exchanges collapse, we’re going to need a response, as nick fury would say.

    narciso (d1f714)

  7. Healthcare issues have languished so long in Republican catacombs that no one will believe they have concern for people. They protect property..thassall

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  8. Kimmel grand dragon of antifa is afraid of Americans having a choice in free market health care.

    mg (31009b)

  9. Pentagon budget at least as onerous as healthcare, but you know…Pentagon.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  10. also I think inventing a “Jimmy Kimmel test” pretty much disqualifies you from being taken seriously

    even if you’re just a sleazy-assed Republican senator

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  11. I once thought Kimmel was the last chance for a semi-balanced late night comedian to address politics, news events and social issues……boy was I wrong, he’s joined the herd and his braying is just as loud and nonsensical as some of the worst offenders.

    harkin (36810b)

  12. If you have the most talented nurses like Joette, Shelby, Maggie, Katie and Sara taking care of you, one can survive screwed up health care. Cape Cod Hospital Rocks.

    mg (31009b)

  13. Y’all can go on forever around the issue focusing on Kimmel. Nice Safe House.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  14. anyone else been humming rocket man all day i can’t make it stop

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  15. A non funny liberal comedian is going to lecture tax-paying Americans on health care?
    GTFOH

    mg (31009b)

  16. muy authentico!

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  17. If one of my children was in the condition of the grand dragon of antifa’s son, I would quit my job and give all my love and time to the child. He certainly could afford the time off. Scum is the new hollywood.

    mg (31009b)

  18. I keep humming Yellow D*ck Toad and I can’t get it out of my head.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  19. @nk:Is Jimmy Kimmel the guy who played the Bundys’ neighbor’s first husband in Married With Children?

    Ben Stein’s sidekick on “Win Ben Stein’s Money*”. Then co-host with Adam Corolla on the Man Show.

    *Wasn’t really his money. He got paid whatever the contestant didn’t win.

    On topic, one more exhibit in “Party of Stupid”. Yes, let’s give our political opponents a blank check to define the terms of the discussion.

    Frederick (53c627)

  20. But when asked to defend their intentions, Republican lawmakers can’t just offer a blank stare. In fact, over the last few days, the GOP pitch has basically been reduced to five talking points, each of which is spectacularly unpersuasive.

    1. Republicans have to keep a promise. Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) said yesterday, “I could maybe give you 10 reasons why this bill shouldn’t be considered. But Republicans campaigned on this so often that you have a responsibility to carry out what you said in the campaign. That’s pretty much as much of a reason as the substance of the bill.”

    That’s absurd. For one thing, it’s ridiculous to think a vague campaign promise is as important, if not more so, than the real-world effects of overhauling the nation’s health care system. For another, if Republicans “have a responsibility to carry out what [they] said in the campaign,” they’d also be extending coverage to everyone, shielding Medicaid beneficiaries from cuts, and guaranteeing protections for Americans with pre-existing conditions. Instead, GOP officials appear desperate to break those promises without explanation.

    2. The clock is ticking. Sen. Bill Cassidy (R-La.) said on Tuesday night, “We have a Sept. 30 deadline on our promise. Let’s finish the job.”

    Um, no. As New York’s Jon Chait responded, “Can you imagine being accused on national television of sponsoring a law that would hurt millions of people, and lying about its effects, and your response is “We have a deadline”? They are rushing to enact massive, permanent changes to the health-care system because of a legislative deadline? What if you said a used car was dangerously unsafe and lacked any of the promised features, and the salesman’s response was to tell you it’s the end of the month and he has a sales quota to meet?”

    3. Campaign priorities trump public priorities. Sen. Pat Roberts (R-Kan.) said this week, in reference to health care policymaking, “If we do nothing, I think it has a tremendous impact on the 2018 elections. And whether or not Republicans still maintain control and we have the gavel.”

    This is madness. Republicans have to put Americans’ health security at risk in order to stay in power? Sure, I understand the underlying argument — if GOP lawmakers do nothing on this issue, the failure will make them look bad — but that’s not a case for passing a bad bill.

    4. States that rejected Medicaid expansion through the ACA must be rewarded. Graham-Cassidy backers, including Lindsey Graham and Bill Cassidy themselves, have spent much of the week saying it’s not “fair” that Medicaid expansion states receive more federal funding than states that refused to expand Medicaid. The current Republican legislation is therefore necessary, the argument goes, to create some sense of equality.

    In other words, states that turned down federal funds should be rewarded, while states that did the right thing should be punished

    https://www.google.com/amp/www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/the-case-the-republican-health-care-repeal-plan-unravels/amp

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  21. You got it..”Republicans have to burn the village to save their jobs..”

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  22. will sleazy torture victim John McCain keep his promise to the idiots in arizona what voted for his lying ass and let this pass?

    i’m keeping an eye on this

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  23. i thot nobody watched kimmel

    Stacey Lormella (ea3b05)

  24. Merely Battle of the Network Stars:

    It’s so easy for a late night TV comic to trip up the agenda of a reality TV show president.

    “You’re on television, dummy.” – Arthur Jensen [Ned Beatty] ‘Network’ 1976

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  25. Almost 80, no grandchildren. Last time I had a major health problem I was out of pocket $40 . Four $10 office visit co-pays. All the folks who think single payer means free need to think again. In my case my group plan paid. But it wasn’t free.

    Bang Gunley (5a4596)

  26. Even Putin can’t compete with conservative pogroms and enemy lists.

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/pastebin-database-grows?utm_term=.ueXMMjXg7#.gjgVV3j2P

    Ben burn (233f96)

  27. Soory for the copy/pasta, but there is a concerted effort to garner citizen opposition by a group in an email I received from APLA Health :

    Jimmy Kimmel nailed the latest Republican bill to repeal Obamacare.
    Watch here: youtube.com/watch?v=cOlibbx5sx0

    The bill is worse than before and would cause millions of people to lose coverage. Call members of Congress NOW and tell them to oppose the Graham-Cassidy bill!

    Senate Republicans are pushing for a quick vote to repeal Obamacare, and they’re working against a September 30 deadline. After that, they can’t pass a health care bill with a simple majority and would have to work with Democrats on a bipartisan solution. We can’t let them get away with this.

    The new bill, known as Graham-Cassidy, is worse than ever. And it’s proof some Republicans don’t care at all about your healthcare. The bill ends Medicaid expansion in 2020 and leaves people with pre-existing conditions out in the cold. It also cuts premium subsidies, imposes caps on Medicaid spending, and steals funding from big states like California and gives it to smaller states that refused to expand their Medicaid programs. All this in order to give huge tax breaks to the rich.

    The bill doesn’t have many fans. The American Medical Association opposes the bill along with hospitals, health insurers, disease groups, and AARP. And a group of 10 governors including 4 Republicans wrote a letter opposing it.

    This isn’t policy, it’s theft. The Congressional Budget Office won’t have time to score the bill, so the Senate won’t even know what it’s voting on. Health experts say California could take a $78 billion dollar hit by 2028.

    Three Republican “no” votes are enough to kill the bill. But they need to hear from you! Call one or all of the targeted offices listed below and tell them “You should vote against Graham-Cassidy!” If the office asks for your city/zip and tells you to call your own senator, tell them healthcare is a national issue and that’s why you’re calling:

    Capito (R-WV) 202-224-6472
    Collins (R-ME) 202-224-2523
    McCain (R-AZ) 202-224-2235
    Murkowski (R-AK) 202-224-6665

    For more tips on how you can help #killthebill, visit trumpcaretoolkit.org
    APLA Health
    611 S. Kingsley Dr.
    Los Angeles, CA 90005
    213.201.1600
    aplahealth.org

    felipe (023cc9)

  28. Unfortunately the republicans can’t figure out a way to engage Americans to get on board with mitch mcconnell care.

    mg (31009b)

  29. *Wasn’t really his money. He got paid whatever the contestant didn’t win.

    His appearance fee for the show was $5000, and whatever the contestant won was taken from that. So, in one sense, the contestant was winning Ben Stein’s money. But the contestant wasn’t winning money that Ben had already earned.

    I kinda liked the year when Nancy Pimental was guest host.

    I was a contestant in the last year the show was in production, when Sal Icana (Jimmy’s cousin) was guest host.

    Chuck Bartowski (bc1c71)

  30. The fierce urgency of do-something-to-fix this now never fixes the problem. Spending $1.3T on something the feds shouldn’t be doing in the first place doesn’t get better by passing it back to the states. This is turning into common core health care.

    crazy (d99a88)

  31. Senatorial Crime family bribing jurors.

    I guess I missed the part where Murkowski was on a jury. And while Congressional pork is shameful and should be eliminated it, it’s not actually a crime.

    Chuck Bartowski (bc1c71)

  32. the grand wizard of antifa fails to state that his son was treated at a charity driven hospital with huge endowments. Therefore no child has or ever will be turned down for needed medical attention at the L.A. facility.
    geez.

    mg (31009b)

  33. @Chuck:I guess I missed the part where Murkowski was on a jury.

    Analogy. The Senate is not a crime family, either, but if they were likened unto one, this would be like unto bribing the jury.

    Frederick (53c627)

  34. Getting back to Kimmel’s sketch: the notion that Canada is the ideal is also laughable.

    Squirrel.

    Blame Canada.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaXsWQAI2j4

    “… and that b-tch, Anne Murray, too!”

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  35. “The Senate is not a crime family, either, but if they were likened unto one, this would be like unto bribing the jury.”

    So happy you’re starting to get it.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  36. Fully 16 vulnerable House Republicans voted “yes” on the last GOP bill but may think twice about the cuts Graham-Cassidy inflicts on their states. Check them out below.

    Knight (CA)
    Issa (CA)
    Denham (CA)
    Royce (CA)
    Walters (CA)
    Rohrabacher (CA)
    Faso (NY)
    Tenney (NY)
    McSally (AZ)
    Frelinghuysen (NJ)
    Roskam (IL)
    Bost (IL)
    Lewis (MN)
    Paulsen (MN)
    Curbelo (FL)
    Poliquin (ME)
    Here’s how much their respective states stand to lose under Graham-Cassidy from 2020 to 2026, according to a study by Avalere Health released Wednesday.

    California: $78 Billion

    New York: $45 Billion

    Arizona: $11 Billion

    New Jersey: $10 Billion

    Illinois: $8 Billion

    Minnesota: $8 Billion

    Florida: $4 Billion

    Maine: $1 Billion

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  37. If all those states had zero crimaleins health care would never be an issue.
    Round zem up

    mg (31009b)

  38. Analogy. The Senate is not a crime family, either, but if they were likened unto one, this would be like unto bribing the jury.

    I got that it was an analogy, but it was a very poorly crafted one. If the Senate were a crime family, then Murkowski would be part of the family and not part of a jury. This is more like giving Fredo a casino in Vegas in exchange for his support.

    Chuck Bartowski (211c17)

  39. @Chuck: Yeah, I know, didn’t say it was a good one, just sayin’.

    Frederick (626da3)

  40. Chuck at 42 really broke the literalist mold with his concrete form.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  41. Krugman

    Graham-Cassidy, the health bill the Senate may vote on next week, is stunningly cruel. It’s also incompetently drafted: The bill’s sponsors clearly had no idea what they were doing when they put it together. Furthermore, their efforts to sell the bill involve obvious, blatant lies.

    Nonetheless, the bill could pass. And that says a lot about today’s Republican Party, none of it good.

    Ben burn (515793)

  42. And AARP..

    American Medical Association

    “On behalf of the physician and medical student members of the American Medical Association (AMA), I am writing to express our opposition to the Cassidy-Graham-Heller-Johnson Amendment to H.R. 1628, the ‘American Health Care Act of 2017.’ We also urge the Senate to reject any other legislative efforts that would jeopardize health insurance coverage for tens of millions of Americans.”

    American Academy of Pediatrics

    “As a pediatrician, I am fearful for my patients and the uncertain future they would face under Senators Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) and Bill Cassidy’s (R-La.) health care proposal, currently set for a vote next week in the U.S. Senate. As president of the American Academy of Pediatrics, I must speak out against this dangerous, ill-conceived policy on behalf of our 66,000 pediatrician, pediatric surgical specialist and pediatric medical subspecialist members, and stop it from advancing.

    American Psychiatric Association

    “Our organizations, which represent over 560,000 physicians, oppose the new Graham-Cassidy bill and its approach to reforming our health care system. The proposal fails to protect the health care coverage and consumer protections available under current law.”

    American Hospital Association

    “We believe that coverage could be at risk for tens of millions of Americans under the Graham-Cassidy proposal. We continue to urge senators to work in a bipartisan manner to address the challenges facing our health care system.

    “This proposal would erode key protections for patients and consumers and does nothing to stabilize the insurance market now or in the long term. In addition, the block grant to provide support for the expansion population expires in 2026, thereby eliminating coverage for millions of Americans.”

    Federation of American Hospitals

    “The Graham-Cassidy proposal could disrupt access to health care for millions of the more than 70 million Americans who depend on Medicaid and the marketplaces for their health coverage.”

    Children’s Hospital Association

    “The nation’s children’s hospitals stand in strong opposition to the most recent legislative proposal introduced by Sens. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., Bill Cassidy, R-La., Dean Heller, R-Nev., and Ron Johnson, R-Wis. Their legislation would slash funding for Medicaid, the nation’s largest health care program for children, by one-third, reducing access and coverage for more than 30 million children in the program. Furthermore, the legislation weakens important consumer safeguards, and as a result, millions of children in working families would no longer be assured that their private insurance covers the most basic of services without annual and lifetime limits and regardless of any underlying medical condition. This bill would have devastating consequences for children and families.”

    American Health Care Association/National Center for Assisted Living

    “There is no question that this bill will undermine care for vulnerable seniors and individuals with disabilities who rely on Medicaid for their daily long term care. Most of the one million people who reside in nursing centers rely on Medicaid, as well as tens of thousands of seniors in America’s assisted living communities.”

    Blue Cross Blue Shield Association

    “Although we support providing states with greater flexibility in shaping health care options for their residents, we share the significant concerns of many health care organizations about the proposed Graham-Cassidy bill. The bill contains provisions that would allow states to waive key consumer protections, as well as undermine safeguards for those with pre-existing medical conditions. The legislation reduces funding for many states significantly and would increase uncertainty in the marketplace, making coverage more expensive and jeopardizing Americans’ choice of health plans. Legislation must also ensure adequate funding for Medicaid to protect the most vulnerable.”

    National Association of Medicaid Directors

    “Any effort of this magnitude needs thorough discussion, examination and analysis, and should not be rushed through without proper deliberation. The legislative proposal would not even have a full CBO score until after its scheduled passage, which should be the bare minimum required for beginning consideration. With only a few legislative days left for the entire process to conclude, there clearly is not sufficient time for policymakers, Governors, Medicaid Directors, or other critical stakeholders to engage in the thoughtful deliberation necessary to ensure successful long-term reforms.”

    Ben burn (515793)

  43. @ Ben burn #3

    So much wrong here.

    Republicans still struggle to promote a credible ownership culture largely because they refuse to wrestle honestly with the hard cases; the situations in which market forces fail to allocate value effectively. Medical care is probably the most frustrating example since it stubbornly resists market solutions and affects everyone deeply.

    They do struggle with the hard cases, because they don’t make a good case. But not because medical care resists market solutions. It can quite easily handle it, left to its devices without government interference.

    Health care is not a market. It lacks any of the vital features of a market.

    Completely wrong. It is a market. It has a limited resource people want and a means for providing that resource while dealing with the scarcity of it.

    Treating health care like a market means living and dying without modern medicine.

    No it doesn’t. Nobody has to die, there are plenty of ways to handle that.

    To advance a culture based on opportunity rather than government dependence, we need an alternative to state-owned health care that keeps key decisions in personal hands, preserves market triggers where appropriate, and rids us of the strangling influence of the massive federal bureaucracy.

    Yes, its call the free market. That is literally what it does.

    In a free market, goods and services are allocated through transactions based on mutual consent. No one is forced to buy from a particular supplier. No one is forced to engage in any transaction at all. In a free market, no transactions occur if a price cannot be agreed.

    And none of that is different with health care.

    The medical industry exists almost entirely to serve people who have been rendered incapable of representing their own interests in an adversarial transaction.

    No, it exists to provide a needed service. There is no reason people will be incapable of representing their own interests. They just have no reason to do so now because it is denied to them.

    When I need health services I often need them in a way that is quite different from my desire for a good quality television or a fine automobile.

    Actually it is not.

    As I lie unconscious under a bus, I am in no position to shop for the best provider of ambulance services at the most reasonable price. All personal volition is lost. Whatever happens next, it will not be a market transaction.

    Which can easily be handled ahead of time.

    Patrick Henry, the 2nd (e04f50)

  44. All personal volition is lost. Whatever happens next, it will not be a market transaction.

    It’s still a market transaction with the police and emergency personnel acting on your behalf. Or, you could refuse service and die.

    You are doing what leftist liars always do: conflate. You are arguing for a health insurance plan by arguing health care. The health care industry is not the health insurance industry. Health insurance is a health care payment system, health care is delivery of services. Auto insurance is a car repair/replacement system. MAACO is a car repair delivery system.

    Rev.Hoagie® (6bbda7)

  45. @ Patrick Henry, the second (#49): The commenter to whom you were responding is someone I have included on my script blocking list. But I certainly enjoyed the righteous fisking you performed there.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  46. Patrick: not gonna chase semantics but maybe you can address…”What is meant by the phrase to promote the general welfare?

    General Welfare. The concern of the government for the health, peace, morality, and safety of its citizens. Providing for the welfare of the general public is a basic goal of government. The preamble to the U.S. Constitution cites promotion of the general welfare as a primary reason for the creation of the Constitution …
    General Welfare legal definition of General Welfare – Legal Dictionary

    Ben burn (515793)

  47. How do you see General welfare?

    Ben burn (515793)

  48. Beldar is so proud of his taboos like debate

    Ben burn (515793)

  49. Rat-a-tat-tat: ever the aviator, McCain comes in out of the sun, fires off a short burst of text and shoots down wingman Graham.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  50. hope they like the 125% premium increase,

    narciso (d1f714)

  51. @54. “This is Radio Moscow. The stores are full of bread and cheese in East Berlin.”

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  52. Now if Bernie opens his yap again before 9/30 lets just script block his unsavory and unwelcome words of encouragement.

    Ben burn (515793)

  53. There are no bread lines in Eurasia…

    Ben burn (515793)

  54. Thanks for all comments Ben burn. I agree with you.

    OK, if you think capitalism can work in medicine, the onus is on you to try to fix it. Make some suggestions, or give up. Most people agree that it is not working. Too many people have gone bankrupt from medical costs or have gone without medical insurance. Its trajectory of sky high costs, almost free of the smallest market pressures, isn’t working.

    The only way you can say it works is if you’re a rich aristocrat (is that redundant?) and couldn’t care less about “the little people.”

    Tillman (a95660)

  55. @49. Wrong.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xJz9dLyRI8

    Dr. Zeius was a free market ape, too.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  56. @61. Yep. The primary objective of the healthcare system in America is to make money, not delivery quality, affordable healthcare to the citizenry– or as the Fossilized Right would call them, the market. When you get light-in-the-loafers Graham whining ‘socialism’ the tell is revealed. They simply want to protect an economic model, not develop viable solutions. The rest of the industrialized world has figured this out long ago. America will eventually as well– or simply get left behind.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  57. Cob was offby 160% in their calculations, brooking goes on step further and throws 220%

    narciso (d1f714)

  58. Thanks Tillman. Sometimes I wonder.

    Ben burn (515793)

  59. You would have to slap the cob with a small beluga. Their calculations are tantamount to saying Iraq didn’t exist

    narciso (d1f714)

  60. Graham-Cassidy, the health bill the Senate may vote on next week, is stunningly cruel. It’s also incompetently drafted: The bill’s sponsors clearly had no idea what they were doing when they put it together. Furthermore, their efforts to sell the bill involve obvious, blatant lies.

    So it is just like ObamaCare?

    Michael Ejercito (1933c9)

  61. @57. Dinosaurs doomed in the tar pit; ideologues wailing, stuck in sticky goo, sinking into extinction. What’s so astonishing is the idiocy of priorities on display; the Mother Nature has opened so many sores around the U.S. crying out for a massive infrastructure plan on top of the ‘pre-existing conditions’ rotting across the land– something both parties could agree on getting to work on immediately to help everyone– and something “posterity” would appreciate and accept paying for along w/the rest of us alive today– and these dinosaurs are fixated on the past. They’re discovering to their horror that they’re on the wrong side of history. If it wasn’t so funny it would truly be sad.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  62. @65. Remember, in West Berlin you’re a free.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  63. man.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  64. Yes one was, that’s why so many braved the trek only a few like bertild brecht went the other way, ask the Ukrainian people about the wonders of soviet agriculture.

    narciso (d1f714)

  65. @56. There can be buffeting before you break the sound barrier.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  66. The preamble to the U.S. Constitution cites promotion of the general welfare as a primary reason for the creation of the Constitution …

    The operative word here is “promote”. It specifically does not say “provide”. Promoting people to do something is not providing for them to do it. Secondly the term “welfare” means a whole other thing today than it did in 1787 when the Constitution was ratified. In 1787 the word welfare meant to be generally left alone, hence the phrase on our first coin known as the Fugio Cent: “Mind Your Business”. It was designed by Benjamin Franklin who may have had a little something to do with the Constitution. Most people think he meant it both literally and as a businessman.

    One thing is indisputable, there is nothing that requires the feds to provide any welfare of any kind and quite frankly if one is honest (a giant leap for leftists) one knows that.

    Rev.Hoagie® (6bbda7)

  67. May e if your parents had to wait in line for luxuries like sugar and milk, not to mention gourmet items like meat, you would have a clue.

    narciso (d1f714)

  68. So it is just like ObamaCare?

    If you believe that Obamacare is bad because of the reasons the poster listed, then why would you support this bill? If you got mad because of “have to pass it to know what’s in it” before, why would you support it now?

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  69. Yep. The primary objective of the healthcare system in America is to make money, not delivery quality, affordable healthcare to the citizenry– or as the Fossilized Right would call them, the market.

    Then the next time you’re sick go tell your doctor he’s no more than a selfish money-grubbing capitalist pig. He didn’t study medicine for a decade to help people, he devoted himself to empty your wallet. Then tell him you will determine his income and tough sh!t for him.

    After that you can go after the lousy food producers in America and tell them they only toil from dawn till dusk to make money and they don’t care about delivering quality food.

    Pretty soon you can take over everything or as the actual fossilized leftists stuck in the 1900’s communist revolutions you will have created Utopia.

    Then one of your fellow comrades, Tillman comes up with this stupidity: “OK, if you think capitalism can work in medicine, the onus is on you to try to fix it.”

    So the left has done it’s very best to break down the system for the Glory of the Motherland then it’s our “onus” to try and fix it? You wouldn’t listen to one single suggestion that did not include the federal government doing something. Your minds are closed by your leftist government God and the proof is the VA is exactly what you are “promoting” as you plan for 330 million people and that can’t do an adequate job for 22 million veterans.

    Rev.Hoagie® (6bbda7)

  70. Kimmel has joined the long list of used-to-be-funny people.

    Colonel Haiku (169911)

  71. @76 Hoagie, I don’t think the primary issue is with the Doctors. (My cousin is an M.D., by the way and I think that they deserve to make a very good living.) The insurance companies, drug companies and hospitals are the primary problem. They don’t care anything about our health. Too many of them only want to swindle every penny they can out of everyone they can.
    Shop for hospital services lately? No, you pick your Dr., who is associated with a hospital.
    This scam is no good for anyone except the ones at the very top of their fat, self-righteous pyramid.

    Taking advantage of ill, hurting, scared people to charge them too much is sick in itself.

    Tillman (a95660)

  72. I agree as to Drs,and especially nurses. If Dr’s are mechanics, nurses are healers.

    Tillman: what I’ve seen to compare with bureaucratic hospitals and Pharma is the group mentality of Doctor ‘group’s making what seems like attractive cost/profit sharing results in lost professional autonomy. That’s a bad thing not necessarily the physicians fault. The costs of present/former systems is unsustainable.

    Ben burn (515793)

  73. On top of that you have insurance companies involving themselves in the diagnostic process.

    Doctors know what insurance will pay for and often don’t test to their satisfaction, but to the insurer, sometimes shorting the insured.

    Ben burn (515793)

  74. Remember: in many dire medical cases timing is critical. Especially to those who save money the sooner you die.

    Ben burn (515793)

  75. Yes he used to be on the man show with carolla,

    narciso (d1f714)

  76. @78. =Haiku= Gesundheit!

    Let’s look at that list– oy vey; H comes before K, Chuckles.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmBK5GslDaQ

    “A little song; a little dance; a little seltzer down your pants.” – MTM, CBS TV, 1970-1977

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  77. @79. Bingo.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  78. They present this information as if somehow they have been “cheated” out of the ability to advocate for changes to the law. The new Republican manipulation of the facts is clever, but absolutely false none the less. Reviewing the history of the Affordable Care Act from its inception to the opening of the state and/or federal health exchanges will show that negotiation and compromise happened at consistent and continuous points as the Affordable Care Act became law, just like every other bill that passes through Congress and becomes law.

    The United States government was “shut down” on October 1, 2013. At the center of the debate, being played out in the media, is the notion that Obamacare should be defunded. When the Democrats and the President stated defunding Obamacare was “not on the table” the Republicans began their battle cry that President Obama and the Democrats “WILL NOT” negotiate. They suggest they (The Republicans) are willing to come to the table and “compromise”, as if no negotiations, committee meetings, and hearings were held to work out differences between the two parties. They attempt to demonstrate the validity of their argument with a picture of numerous Republicans sitting on one side of the table, and facing empty chairs on the other side of the table. (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/10/house-republicans-wait-at-a-table-for-dems-to-negotiate-budget/
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/progressiveandproud.wordpress.com/2013/10/05/another-acaobamacare-myth-no-negotiation-between-democrats-and-republicans-on-acaobamacare/amp/

    Ben burn (515793)

  79. @88. Bbbbbbbbut, they promised!

    How’s that Atlantic Wall, doing, Herr Trump?

    The beachhead is secure; the good guys have momentum, cutting through the hedgerows deep inland. On to Paris.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  80. That’s convoluted logic like the design for the Eisenhower memorial, the deems promised things they could never deliver, including a secure network of exchanges not to mention keeping your plan and your chief practitioner.

    narciso (d1f714)

  81. 2017 has been a blast, so far, as I watch the Democrat party’s lemming-like march off a cliff. They can’t help themselves and can’t stop the descent into insanity. Popcorn all around.

    Colonel Haiku (169911)

  82. Pfc takes a stab at the subject matter..loses grip…stabs himself.

    Ben burn (515793)

  83. the late night loser and his minions will soon be sporting rocket man t-shirts mimicking a che guevara design

    mg (31009b)

  84. 91-Col.
    I would not put it past a democrat or two switching parties before 2018

    mg (31009b)

  85. Trump reportedly got mad at McCain again and called him a “Meanie” and a “Big Dumb-Dumb Head.” (OK, not literally – it’s Trump-Speak.)

    Tillman (a95660)

  86. Will a republican ever stand up for their base as Chuck does? mcconnell care nudged off the rails by a unfunny L.A. nut job.

    mg (31009b)

  87. “This is unprecedented: senators are moving ahead with a vote on a bill that would alter the health care of every American family and the condition of a sixth of our entire economy, without waiting to hear any official, independent estimates of the consequences. The irresponsibility is as blithe as it is breathtaking. Before becoming a senator, Cassidy spent twenty-five years working as a physician in hospitals devoted to the uninsured. I find it baffling that a person with his experience would not recognize the danger of this bill. But here we are.”
    https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/if-the-us-adopts-the-gops-health-care-bill-it-would-be-an-act-of-mass-suicide

    Ben burn (96ff85)

  88. Former Pennsylvania Sen. Rick Santorum told Breitbart News in an exclusive interview that he remains optimistic about Graham-Cassidy’s chances of passing through the Senate, even with Sen. John McCain’s (R-AZ) opposition to the Obamacare repeal bill. Santorum said, “We will get this to the finish line.”

    http://www.yourdictionary.com/santorum

    Ben burn (96ff85)

  89. Will Bunch

    The truth about GOP’s plan to destroy health care is even worse than you think

    The answers may be uglier than we even care to admit. For Trump and his hard-core base of supporters, repealing Obamacare and replacing it with anything, with zero regard for what that replacement actually does or doesn’t do, would be the pinnacle of the broader effort to eradicate anything they perceive as tainted by the hands of America’s first black president. That includes the Paris climate accord, transgender troops, the DACA program for “Dreamers,” diplomatic relations with Cuba, the Iran nuclear deal, and so on and so forth — but the idea of something taking root in American life called “Obamacare” is too much to bear. (If only they’d called it RobertELeeCare — the far right would be out there with their tiki torches marching to preserve it!) …

    Except there is one other thing driving Republican lawmakers: Money. Or, perhaps more accurately, blackmail. The billionaire oligarchs who’ve fueled the GOP restoration in Washington — specifically, the oil-drenched Koch brothers — have told their political handmaidens they will block access to an astronomical $400 million needed to retain power in 2018 unless Congress kills Obamacare and delivers a huge corporate tax cut. One key donor at a recent major confab of the Koch donor network told Republican legislators that “his ‘Dallas piggy bank’ was now closed” until the Affordable Care Act is killed for good. “Get Obamacare repealed and replaced, get tax reform passed,” said Texas donor Doug Deason, according to the Guardian. “Get it done and we’ll open it back up.”

    Ben burn (96ff85)

  90. Just watch “The Barbarian Invasions” to see what even liberal Canadians think of their medical system.

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0338135/

    Patricia (5fc097)

  91. @ Patrick Henry, the second (#49): The commenter to whom you were responding is someone I have included on my script blocking list. But I certainly enjoyed the righteous fisking you performed there.

    Patrick Henry the second fisted somebody?

    Patterico (115b1f)

  92. That’s the way I heard it, as a young Big Media guy in his 30s.

    Patterico (115b1f)


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