Patterico's Pontifications

9/16/2017

Report: Trump Will Not Withdraw from Paris Climate Deal; UPDATE: Denied by White House

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 1:51 pm



Details at RedState.

[Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.]

125 Responses to “Report: Trump Will Not Withdraw from Paris Climate Deal; UPDATE: Denied by White House”

  1. Hi.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  2. according to the European Union’s top energy official.

    the sourcing here seems pretty thin

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  3. Jovanka strikes again!!!

    urbanleftbehind (847a06)

  4. the sourcing here seems pretty thin

    “Since the source is an official from the European Union, and not the White House, take it for what it’s worth.” — My RedState post.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  5. On 1 June 2017, U.S. President Donald Trump announced that the United States would withdraw from the agreement. In accordance with Article 28, as the agreement entered into force in the United States on 4 November 2016, the earliest possible effective withdrawal date for the United States is 4 November 2020. If it chooses to withdraw by way of withdrawing from the UNFCCC, notice could be given immediately (the UNFCCC entered into force for the US in 1994), and be effective one year later. On August 4, 2017, the Trump Administration delivered an official notice to the United Nations that the U.S. intends to withdraw from the Paris Agreement as soon as it is legally eligible to do so. The formal notice of withdrawal cannot be submitted until the agreement is in force for 3 years for the US, in 2019.

    so i don’t get it

    why isn’t the wsj reporting that the Trump Administration has delivered an official notice to the United Nations rescinding the previous official notice?

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  6. They’ve denied it. I updated the RedState post.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  7. I hope this isn’t true. If it is, we have an idea what Schumer and Pelosi talked with Trump about over dessert after the dinner when the DACA deal was done. I hope this is all they talked asbout. I really hope they didn’t talk about judges.

    DRJ (15874d)

  8. oh sorry i just googled up the wsj report

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  9. They always deny everything. Was this a leak to change the news from DACA to climate change, and thereby make the base happy again? If so, it will work.

    DRJ (15874d)

  10. The have this down to an art: Leak, Deny, Blast the Media, Please the Base. The next step should be Blast the Media.

    DRJ (15874d)

  11. this has more the stink of the sleazy climate change hoaxers wanting a climate change news peg post-Harvey/Irma to further their own propaganda

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  12. Pretty soon, all you will have left is “but he does support law enforcement”.

    urbanleftbehind (847a06)

  13. President Trump’s a true friend to the beleaguered carbon dioxide molecules.

    He’s done nothing to further prejudice on them – in fact he’s fought for their rights in many many different ways – from a regulatory rollback unprecedented in our lifetimes to robustly support for pipelines and domestic energy production!

    The United States is a sanctuary country for carbon dioxide – a shining city on the hill powered by clean efficient domestic coal and natural gas.

    And God bless America!

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  14. If this was Trump, he should be careful using the WSJ. He needs some media allies.

    DRJ (15874d)

  15. oopers *robust* support i mean

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  16. UPDATE x2: So does the White House denial make this a complete non-story? Not necessary. Gabriel Malor:

    Yup.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  17. The skydragins demand tribute, like the giant mutant stargoat.

    narciso (d1f714)

  18. Wait they are citing Glenn ‘the hack’ thrush as evidence.

    narciso (d1f714)

  19. No.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  20. Malor was citing Thrush reporting the denial.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  21. The initial claim was made by an EU official, as explained at my RedState post.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  22. really does seem a lot like this coincides with a concerted fake news propaganda slut campaign to do some climate change hoax all up in it

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  23. So the name of the official is Alan smithee,

    narciso (d1f714)

  24. Whether it’s a real story or a lie, is this the British retaliating for Trump’s leak/tweet about the “loser terrorist” that was “in the sights” of the British police?

    DRJ (d35869)

  25. You see there is evidence the suspect was known to local authorities, although perhaps for petty crime nit jihadist sympathies

    narciso (d1f714)

  26. I read somewhere that the way the agreement is written up it takes two years to withdraw.

    Anyone know if that’s true and the US is on the hook for agreed on contributions till official withdrawal?

    harkin (fc9aef)

  27. i heard that too

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  28. I come here for the hottest fake news and the denial!

    Just imagine… https://twitter.com/horowitz39/status/908856015424167936

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  29. I dispute the premise that as a matter of logic or necessity, either the report was true or else the denial was true.

    Trump contradicts himself constantly, on matters great and small, as part of his constant spew of con-man word salad. He doesn’t know or care about accuracy or truth as general concepts. His statements, his assurances, his signed written words signed in blood and sworn on an altar in the Sistine Chapel — all equally disposable on a whim.

    Will he reverse the pull-out? The only possible answer is: He’ll say and do whatever on any given day, at any given moment, he thinks is best for the Trump Brand. What he says at any given time isn’t meaningless, but it damned sure is unreliable.

    Kudos to our host for publishing the denial quickly and with equal prominence. That’s better than this gutless, narcissistic weathervane of a POTUS deserves.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  30. I agree, Beldar, that the fact that the White House denial doesn’t tell us much of anything. Neither does the EU official’s statement. But yes, Trump has often contradicted his own spokespeople — on the issue of why Comey was fired, whether he was ending DACA, whether this official or that was fired or not, and so on.

    In my opinion leaping to the conclusion that any of this is fake is a conclusion no better than a guess. We’re always guessing with this guy.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  31. @ harkin (#28): A nonbinding agreement with no enforcement provisions can say what it likes about how much advance notice one ought to give, or for that matter, can say what it likes about being perpetually binding. Doesn’t matter. The U.S. isn’t “on the hook” for anything except in the fevered minds of the Great Global Warming Co-Religionists who treat tweets from Bill Nye the Not-a-Scientist Guy as gospel.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  32. @ DRJ (#7): Thanks to the quid pro quo by which Trump secured Ted Cruz’ endorsement in exchange for committing to limit his SCOTUS picks to the List of 21 (now 20), Trump’s as far out on that particular limb as a dedicated and life-long oath-breaker can be pushed. Pelosi and Schumer have many other, softer subjects on which they can work their wiles as con artists conning the con man. Unless and until there’s another SCOTUS vacancy, it would be more efficacious for them to focus on those other areas, so I doubt they’ve spent time working on him about judges. But when that time comes, if they’re still sweethearts, they surely will.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  33. Mr Harkin asked:

    I read somewhere that the way the agreement is written up it takes two years to withdraw.

    Anyone know if that’s true and the US is on the hook for agreed on contributions till official withdrawal?

    That might be true on paper, but there’s no enforcement mechanism. If President Trump tears up a copy on the freshly-mowed White House lawn, what are the other nations going to do, send in UN troops?

    The realistic Dana (ca408e)

  34. A deal to deal is a deal.

    So ‘dealightfully’ Trump.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  35. So is the Paris Climate Deal administered by the Vogons?

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  36. You have got the gist of it

    narciso (d1f714)

  37. People need to stop going to Trumps dumps so the moron and his family go bankrupt.

    mg (31009b)

  38. Mr. Maguire has a nice encapsulation of the sloppiness what’s all up in this attempt at journalism by the wall street journal

    What does the top European official mean when he says the US won’t renegotiate but will review the terms of engagement? Couldn’t that encompass pointing out problematic requirements and having them modified or re-interpreted more favorably to the US? Wouldn’t that be a re-negotiation, even if the diplomats agree that no one wants to call it that?

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  39. That new stance was reportedly vocalized by White House senior adviser Everett Eissenstat, “participants” told the WSJ.

    Everett Eissenstat was put in place by rapidly anti-semitic US Army general HR McMaster and a sick-in-the-head goldy sacky named “Gary Cohn”

    he directly reports to this sleazy Gary Cohn sacky-thug

    Gary Cohn’s tried to ass-jack the messaging on climate change before:

    President Trump’s views on climate policy are “evolving” after European allies personally pressured him to reverse his vow to abandon an international agreement to limit greenhouse gas emissions, a senior White House adviser said at the Group of Seven summit here on Friday.

    Trump is considering remaining in the 2015 Paris environmental accord, a decision that would be a striking turnabout for a president who during his campaign pledged to scrap the agreement and has routinely labeled climate change a “hoax.”

    “His views are evolving,” said National Economic Council Director Gary Cohn, who accompanied Trump at the G-7 summit. “He came here to learn. He came here to get smarter.”

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  40. What do they say about scorpions pikachu? Gary has a bit too much gab re charlottesville.

    narciso (d1f714)

  41. Now I’ll grant you there is no one in his inner circle that reufirced the middle and working class perspectives that zit showed were the key to his victory, but that a fish if a whole different flavour

    narciso (d1f714)

  42. But those who have whining about bannon and see him as no better than a denebian garbage scow don’t get that benefit if the doubt.

    narciso (d1f714)

  43. oops that should have been *rabidly*

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  44. In balance Everett seems good people:
    https://ustr.gov/archive/Who_We_Are/Bios/Everett_Eissenstat.html

    narciso (d1f714)

  45. Bloomberg identifies the main culprit as EU warmunist Canete interpreting remarks made by Eissenstat. Eissenstat’s legislative advisor background suggests Canete is indulging in ‘keep hope alive’ antics. The President could end this with a “not one dime” statement because the Paris Accords won’t proceed another millimeter without US$ funding.

    Rick Ballard (1eda47)

  46. Turns out he is a hypocritical wet poppie
    https://projects.icij.org/panama-papers/power-players/

    narciso (d1f714)

  47. That’s another in the same manila folder as Mike Rowe and Round-Up commercials.

    urbanleftbehind (28c431)

  48. My favorite is Trump crossing the Delaware.
    https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2017/07/donald-trump-art-paintings-mad-magazine

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  49. McMaster told ABC This Week that Trump may keep the US in the Paris climate agreement.

    DRJ (d35869)

  50. Ivanka/McMaster liberals are wearing Trump down, Drj.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  51. ugh creepy douchebag McMaster’s the anti-semitic posterboy for why you don’t trawl the US military sewer when you’re staffing up an administration

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  52. Unhappy feet feels Trump has made his first gaffe.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  53. no there’s still no indication we’re not withdrawing and President Trump’s been very, very good about the regulations and putting people in key positions to roll back obama’s climate change hoax policies

    these weak-minded jew-hating turds he got from the military need to go is all

    and fascist goldy-sacky thug Gary Cohn should have been fired several weeks ago

    time for a little housecleaning is all

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  54. I’m not convinced there is anything to wear down, Ben burn. It’s more like what side of the bed he wakes up on.

    DRJ (15874d)

  55. On the upside thanks to leftism it is now racist and transphobic when black and hispanic chicks refuse to have sex with me. I identify as a native American lesbian.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  56. A sports story for JD or anyone who likes football.

    DRJ (15874d)

  57. I also identify as a Senator from Taxashuccets. Where do I go for my pension?

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  58. Wait… so this was fake news? Or a report of some fake news?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  59. what’s really alarming is this silly climate change hoax is what addams family reject hr mcmaster and his little dog everett are worried about these days

    failmerica’s not in good hands with these two bimbos

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  60. 55… Why would the NSA be commenting about “climate accords”?

    As I was typing, I just watched McMasters tell Chris Wallace:

    “No it’s false, it’s a false report, the president has decided to pull out of the Paris Accord because it was a bad deal for the American people and because it was a bad deal for the environment.”

    Fast-talkin’, slow walkin’ No-hair Sam.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  61. Mr. Colonel the sleazy little worm what started this whole contretemps off is named Everett Eissenstat he was hired by and reports to McMaster, who obviously perpetrated this

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  62. It’s chum; he’s fishing for deals in U.N. waters this week.

    “You’re gonna need a bigger boat.” – Chief Martin Brody [Roy Scheider] ‘Jaws’ 1975

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  63. No, really, coronello, check out my high cheek bones. I needs senator and at least tenure at ivy league skoolz.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  64. Yes, Steve, you saw how much interest teh tale of Fauxcahontas held for the Democrat operatives with bylines, aka Teh Media.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  65. sleazy anti-semitic US Army general HR McMaster probably had a hand in this trashy nonsense too i bet:

    The NYPD has arrested a 33-year-old woman accused of splashing the “Charging Bull” sculpture on Wall Street with blue paint to protest the U.S. pulling out of the Paris Agreement.

    […]

    “I’m putting up blue lines throughout New York City to represent rising sea levels as a comment on the United States’ potential withdrawal from the Paris Accord,” she told the tabloid. “And I’m hoping they become so ubiquitous that members of the U.N. will see them and reaffirm their commitment to the agreement.”

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  66. 31. Beldar (fa637a) — 9/16/2017 @ 4:15 pm

    I dispute the premise that as a matter of logic or necessity, either the report was true or else the denial was true.

    Both are true. The report is true, but it was always true, and so the denial is also true. The withdrawal announcement left an opening for staying or going back in.

    Sammy Finkelman (58e1fc)

  67. i guess them sleazy-slimy republican senators are starting to realize their do-nothing approach to life isn’t really working for them

    GOP eying ‘blue slip’ break to help Trump fill the courts

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  68. oh good lord now p.o.s. climate change pansy rex tillerson’s hiking up his skirts and doing herself a lil do si do with his anti-semitic friend mcmaster

    “I think under the right conditions, the president said he’s open to finding those conditions where we can remain engaged with others on what we all agree is still a challenging issue,” he said on CBS’s “Face the Nation.”

    at least unlike the supremely useless McMaster he manages to at least hint at what a nakedly anti-american document obama’s paris agreement is:

    “If we can construct a set of terms that we believe is fair and balanced for the American people and recognizes our economy, our economic interests, relative to others, in particular, the second-largest economy in the world, China,” he listed the terms.

    weak tea but it’s the failmerican state department after all

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  69. Blue slip is what Mitchy’s beard is gonna wear when she gets some interstates built.

    urbanleftbehind (28c431)

  70. Thw White House actuaklly said something a little bit more accomodating than what Miguel Arias CAnerte said after themeeting in Montreal.

    He only said that the United States will “try to review the terms on which they could be engaged under this agreement” – in other words, a side agreement – while Sarah Huckabee Sanders tweeted that the U.S. is withdrawing “unless we get pro-American terms” – in other words might actually stay in if the agreement could be rewritten.

    The big objection is that agreement doesn’t do anything to move carbon dioxide emissions from the United States to China.

    It would be better if Trump was aiming to just kill this. It’s an almost unimaginably stupid idea, that everybody knows cannot possibly move the needle, and takes a socialistic, “government controls everything” approach.

    And it is both a distraction from other measures if you think this is a problem – like spewing sulfer dioxide over the Arctic or fertilizing the South Pacific – forms of geo-engineering that stand a chance of working (The PAris accords is geo-engineering that’s guaranteed not to work.

    Or adaptation like building seawalls or direct action to rprevent hurricanes.

    And it’s a distraction from things that really cause human suffering.

    It’s not climate change that’s causing the Rohingya to flee Burma

    North Korea, by the way, by eploding a few nuclear bombs in the attmosphere, could affect the climate alot more than anything anybody else is doing.

    Muclear winter is, after all, a possible solution to global warming.

    Sammy Finkelman (58e1fc)

  71. I hope Hurricane Jose turns/misses the East Coast, DCSCA.

    DRJ (15874d)

  72. Tillerson was on a Sunday show and (like McMaster) has left the door open for staying in the Paris climate accord. It feels like liberal winds are blowing at the White House, which was bound to happen with someone with Trump’s mindset, history, and ideological emptiness.

    How can he make his pesky base ignore the weather change? Dribble it out over several days, enjoy all the good press and happy life metal friends and relatives, plus no one is talking about DACA anymore For Trump, whether as a businessman or President, there are no principles and every day is a new day:

    A friend of Axios took the time to read Trump’s 1987 book “Art of the Deal.” Here are the passages that stood out now that Trump is president:

    On a daily schedule: “I try not to schedule too many meetings. I leave my door open. You can’t be imaginative or entrepreneurial if you’ve got too much structure. I prefer to come to work each day and just see what develops.”
    ***
    3. on flexibility: “I never get too attached to one deal or one approach. For starters, I keep a lot of balls in the air, because most deals fall out, no matter how promising they seem at first.”I
    ***
    6. On exaggeration: “The final key to the way I promote is bravado. I play to people’s fantasies. People may not always think big themselves, but they can still get very excited by those who do. That’s why a little hyperbole never hurts. People want to believe that something is the biggest and the greatest and the most spectacular. I call it truthful hyperbole. It’s an innocent form of exaggeration, and a very effective form of promotion.”

    This is Art of the Deal applied to the Presidency. Like it?

    DRJ (15874d)

  73. Rush Limbaugh said it would last week or the week before. First of all, it would weaken because
    of wind shear. The top of the hurricane has winds going ina different direction. Also hurricane systems don’t last long, and this is far out to sea – hurricanes that have hot land have originated closer to land.

    Sammy Finkelman (58e1fc)

  74. “… happy life metal friends and relatives …” should be ” …happy liberal friends and relatives … ” although both kind of wsork.

    DRJ (15874d)

  75. @ DRJ (#80): Thanks for the laugh! The Singularity is truly approaching when our autocorrect blunders start making meta-jokes. Freud thought it was just our unconscious minds making those slips. Now it’s our artificial intelligences helping out too.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  76. Tillerson, McMaster, and Kelly are in the position of being Eddie Haskell’s parents, trying both to influence Eddie for the better while rationalizing his obnoxious wisecracks to everyone else at the PTA meeting.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  77. They should tell him that 1) he’s working too hard and his health in danger; 2) he is neglecting his wife and young son; and 3) he needs to play more golf for fresh air and exercise; therefore he should spend as little time at the White House as possible and as much as he wants at Manhattan, New Jersey and Florida, and not to worry, they’ll take care of everything.

    nk (dbc370)

  78. Boy, I am so looking forward to the Emmys tonight. Do you think they’ll avoid politics for once?

    /naïve

    Kevin M (752a26)

  79. I’ll probably catch the orvillr the first hour, and some Colombo episode on another channel

    narciso (d1f714)

  80. What about the undermining of American intelligence agencies, upending of traditional alliances, cosying up to dictators, enormous policy vacuums and legislative defeat on health care, attacks on overseas women’s health organisations, multiple firings and resignations, general bellicosity, and possible obstruction of justice, not to mention collusion with the Russians?

    would it were

    so far if anything the Trump Administration’s been a bit dull

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  81. @ narciso (#86): Interesting link, thanks. Despite the author’s epiphany, I still wanted to smack her for the “He Who Shall Not Be Named” crack. Which is to say: The author’s epiphany was about her cousin from Alabama, and was welcome; but she remains spectacularly clueless about herself and her blind spots.

    If she came to dinner with me, I’d end up saying repeatedly (but hopefully without shouting): “Escúchame sobre Hillary y los Clintonistas y la prensa. Esúchame, por favor.”

    Beldar (fa637a)

  82. That is a great link, narciso. My favorite part:

    “Oh God, you didn’t vote for Trump did you?” I asked, half in jest, because at that point in my life I’d never actually met a Trump supporter.

    “As a mat-ah-fact aaah deed,” she said in her deep Southern drawl.
    ***
    U can’t f…ing believe it,” I said, raising my voice and pulling over to the kerb. “You mean I’m driving around Sydney with a f…ing Trump supporter, and she happens to be my cousin.”

    Her reply was mint-julep-on-the-front-porch composure, spiced with challenge. “Don’t tell me you think that woman would have made a better president of our country?” she said evenly.

    “Are you out of your mind?” I screamed. “Donald Trump is a psychopath. He’s a sociopath. He’s a pathological narcissist.”

    IMO virtually anyone could have beaten Hillary. Buckley’s famous first 400 names in the Boston phone book might have won. That says far more about Hillary than it does about Trump.

    DRJ (15874d)

  83. But this is the part I want to remember:

    But to what end? So that I could download all my old judgments, opinions and biases (conscious and unconscious) with her? So that I could debate the “facts” and “truth” as I saw them? That would hardly constitute listening, it certainly wouldn’t be true dialogue. It would be just more of the same sound and fury; one ego (mine) trying to convince another ego (hers) who was right.

    We used to actually talk here, to dialogue. That rarely happens in the last two years and I miss it.

    DRJ (15874d)

  84. Except only one did beat the clinton/obama machine, this switch likely will follow his fellow wallaby Jonathan swan to politic 2.0, axis.

    narciso (d1f714)

  85. ““You know, our [carbon dioxide] footprint dropped by over 18 percent from 2000 to 2014. How? Because of government mandate? No, because of innovation called hydraulic fracturing and horizontal drilling,” Pruitt said.

    He then poked at German Chancellor Angela Merkel, suggesting she is a hypocrite for turning her back on emissions-free nuclear power while prodding the U.S. to do more to reduce greenhouse gases.

    “If Chancellor Merkel … really cares about reducing CO2 in this world, why is she going away from nuclear?” Pruitt asked. “It’s so hypocritical for countries to look at the United States and say, ‘You need to do more.’ Really? So, we’ve reduced our pollutants under the Clean Air Act [criteria pollutants and CO2].”

    Germany turned away from nuclear power in 2011 after the accident at the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Plant in Fukushima, Japan, after a tsunami caused an international outcry against nuclear power. Germany gets 40 percent of it electricity from coal and is highly dependent on energy imports to sustain its economy, according to the nuclear industry.

    Merkel has been a leading critic of the Trump administration for deciding to leave the Paris climate change agreement, which seeks to reduce carbon and other greenhouse gas emissions from fossil fuels.

    “The environmental Left has truly created this mindset that somehow environmental protection is ‘do not touch.’ Really? When we are called to feed the world, really? When we are called to power the world. When we do it better than anyone in the world already,” Pruitt said.”

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/epa-chief-scott-pruitt-calls-out-germanys-angela-merkel-as-climate-hypocrite/article/2634380

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  86. Pull!

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  87. Trumpster sure giving people the run around this pas week.

    Love Movement (987b85)

  88. Not to conflate climate with weather, but with explicit acknowledgement that recent hurricanes are indeed “off topic,” I’ll share my observations after a very pleasant weekend of sports TV viewing (in which the ‘Horns outclassed and ought to have beaten USC, the Texans won convincingly, and the Astros clinched the American League West at home in style), as a consequence I’ve seen a substantial volume of television advertisements bought by domestic and foreign car & truck manufacturers:

    I’m struck by the extent to which, and aggressiveness with which, manufacturers are now competing to offer the most generous-seeming promotional discounts for Houstonians obliged to buy new cars and trucks as a result of the storm and flooding. I assume comparable ads are running in Florida.

    I’m not knocking these promotions or these companies, nor denying that there may be some element of genuine altruism in these offers.

    On the other hand, for the last three weeks, everyone in America has surely been muttering, while watching videos of flooded vehicles by the acre: “Wow, a bunch of people are going to be busy repairing what can be, salvaging what can’t, and buying new for what’s still needed.” These floods present many industries with sudden unanticipated demand, with corresponding economic opportunities. I’m okay with that if the resulting economic transactions are free and well-informed; buyer and seller should then both end up better off.

    What’s interesting, though, is that the companies seem to be deliberately avoiding specifics that can be compared apples-to-apples. One major American auto maker started by offering storm victims their employee-discount pricing. Another offers 90-days or six-months no-interest financing. Another offers straight cash rebates. In the last two days, some have started being deliberately open-ended, with promises that these promotional discounts are “on top of” all of their other promotional offers.

    And then there’s the super-premium market. I think I heard a Mercedes Benz commercial yesterday with Don Draper’s voice-over assuring us that flooded-out Texans should definitely NOT WORRY, because in its relentless pursuit of excellence, Mercedes Benz will indeed still be open for business and selling their vehicles whenever we want to come in to buy one. (Presumably at the regular price; Don didn’t say, precisely.) I’m tempted to say that the “real Don Draper” — meaning the character Jon Hamm played on “Mad Men” — would have told his client that was awfully weak sauce amidst these competitive but alluring promotional offers. But whoever the Mercedes Benz advertising counterpart to Don Draper is, the company seems pretty pleased with him/her/it, and certainly with Jon Hamm’s mellifluous voice.

    Every one one of these promotional incentives has a present cash value that could be calculated and compared by examining the underlying contracts. Every one of those companies knows the exact present cash value of its own incentives, and within a few pennies, the present cash value of its competitors’ incentives. But yet they don’t talk about their competitors’ offers directly, nor permit their own incentives to be easily compared to anyone else’s on anything but sentimental terms. (“Wow, what a great offer from Subaru, I’m not sure how much it was worth but they had Husky dogs in their commercial!”)

    So even in this sudden catastrophe-created boom market, sellers do want to compete, but don’t want to be too easy to figure out. They certainly want the APPEARANCE of being altruistic, too, but not enough to prompt them to put aside the smoke and mirrors that their ad departments prefer.

    Now the reason I’m not knocking these companies or these promotions is: The market can handle this just fine. Consumers who really care, to the penny, what these different offers amount to on a net present-dollar basis can do the homework, ask the questions (probably without leaving their computer keyboards), and create a spreadsheet comparison if they wish to take that trouble. Or maybe there’s a website that does that calculation on a dynamic basis with real-type updating through users’ phone aps. I dunno; wouldn’t surprise me.

    But most of us don’t bother to go to that much trouble, preferring instead to simply apply some highly subjective but mostly adequate (and mostly downward) modifiers when we’re figuring out which companies have earned good karma post-disaster. And probably Chevy knows its market as well as Mercedes Benz knows its.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  89. Trust issues abound in the military persona dominating the adult power faction as a concept, but McMasters has a sab of my trust as an Eisenhower type. But Ike, had much more talent as General, than President. Having Kelly and McMasters puppet mastering Trump is worrisome. The saving grace is having an Eisenhower bad rather than Trump horrible.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  90. Btw..DC: 98 also a jab @ Cronkite.:)

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  91. OT – New subject because I hate this crap and need somewhere to vent.

    The Hill has an OpEd today on why the Trump Dossier is a critical intelligence took in the hands of the FBI, and why the appearances coming up in the House by FBI Director Gray and AG Sessions where they are going to be asked about the Dossier are potentially bad things for US Intelligence.

    The OpEd was written by Asha Rangappa, who the OpEd identifies as an Associate Dean at Yale Law School, and was formerly a Special Agent with the FBI in the “Counter-Intelligence Division of the FBI Office in New York City.”

    In her piece she just throws out as facts many issues that are a matter of dispute — like whether the DNC emails were “hacked” by Russia, or whether they were downloaded from DNC computers onto a thumb drive and then given over to some third party. There has been a serious technical analaysis done – -which I don’t pretend to understand for a second — which comes to the conclusion that the documents were downloaded at a speed that precludes WiFi as being the method they were obtained, and the speed confirms that the likely method of obtaining the documents was via a hardwire download such via USB port using a thumb drive.

    She says some former CIA “officer” who has reviewed the dossier finds it “generally credible” for what it purports itself to be which is simply raw intelligence which may or may not be 100% accurate in all its details.

    So far nothing exceptional there.

    But then Ms. Rangappa starts to explain why its important that the Russians or other foreign governments not know what US intelligence has uncovered or confirmed, and vice versa, lest they change-up their operations after we have already figured them out, and she claims House GOP inquiries about the dossier, how it came into existence, how the FBI obtained it, and how the FBI made use of it during the election season, put intelligence activities against the Russians at risk.

    Since I know a bit about this subject, and I personally know folks involved in these kinds of issues — and because I have never before heard of Asha Rangappa — I decided to do a brief Google search to see who she is.

    Remember, main stream media and political publications like The Hill hold folks like this out as “experts” whose views you should trust and respect.

    Ms. Rangappa has been Assistant Dean at Yale Law School since 2005.
    She graduated from Princeton in 1996(??) and Yale Law School in 2000.
    She clerked for one year for a Circuit Court judge in the First Circuit.

    But I thought The Hill said she was a former FBI Counter Intelligence expert?

    Yeah — from 2003 to 2005.

    Trust me on this — I was around that field for a long time, and still have a decent reach into that field — someone right out of the FBI Academy who is sent to New York City to work Counter-Intelligence is not given anything really important to do for several years. Its an area of work where you must demonstrate your competence and expertise in the necessary trade craft before any of the folks you are assigned to work with will trust you with anything important. Cases in counter-intelligence are built over a period of years, and no one wants to see a boatload of work go down the drain because some idiot Yale Lawyer right out of the Academy thinks she is smarter than everyone else.

    And trust me on this too — veteran FBI agents have a high degree of skepticism about anyone who goes to Law School and then forgoes a legal career in favor of becoming an Agent. The new hires who get a bit of deferral in terms of skepticism are people who move from local law enforcement to the FBI, and former active duty military.

    Asha Rangappa, expert on counter-intelligence. Give me a break.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  92. One of the amusing bits re the dossier was rhwcnotion that the rosnwft privatization had anything g to do with trump, notably carter page, but that deal was glencore (whuxh was march riches old firm (guess what some of his partners like chagoyry and kurzun were up to,)

    narciso (d1f714)

  93. John Philip Sousa is best known as the “The March King” for the 137 marches he wrote, many while he was director of the Marine Band. But he also had a passion for trap shooting. He organized the first national trapshooting organization which became the Amateur Trapshooting Association, and authored a number of articles on the topic. Sousa registered more than 35,000 targets and was quoted in his Trapshooting Hall of Fame biography: “Let me say that just about the sweetest music to me is when I call, ‘pull,’ the old gun barks, and the referee in perfect key announces, ‘dead’.”

    I accidentally closed the window I was responding to. So, what the h#ll.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  94. How this piece of rubble got any traction, got any traction, yet the miniaturized warheAds from 2013 wee a practical cipher.

    narciso (d1f714)

  95. “veteran FBI agents have a high degree of skepticism about anyone who goes to Law School and then forgoes a legal career in favor of becoming an Agent”

    Not questioning your premise but a point of order: Gun culture FBI might have those purist notions but the agency recruits just like the NBA and the CIA. Nerds have to earn creds in combat to get respect from that wing.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  96. @84/85.

    Good television is rare.
    But it’s a very promising medium.
    Someday it’ll be well done.

    “Television is a God-damned amusement park!” – Howard Beale [Peter Finch] ‘Network’ 1976

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  97. seriously, what comment thread doesn’t need the search terms “trapshooting” and “dead?”

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  98. shipwreckedcrew

    I would simply be happy if the FBI stopped supporting DNC Propaganda points and get back to enforcing our Nation’s Laws. Like with the IRS, Hillary and the rest of the rot including indicting Comey and McCabe.

    But hey.

    Love Movement (987b85)

  99. I think the topic of comparative advertising is very interesting, Beldar. Car companies don’t often use them but the link has a few examples.

    DRJ (15874d)

  100. That’s very perceptive, swc (#100)! A few minutes more googling reveals that Asha Rangappa appears to be a career college administrator at an excellent law school. She is not a member of the Yale Law faculty. She doesn’t teach at Yale Law School. She hasn’t published scholarly papers according to jstor.org, so she’s not a scholar. Her law degree appears to have been a waste after her ju

    dicial clerkship; she is not licensed in Connecticut, where she’s apparently worked since 2005. Her title of “Associate Dean for Admissions & Financial Aid” means she gets to put her thumb on the scales that decide to whom Yale Law admits and gives money — a nice sinecure but one having little to do with counterintelligence, unless the target of the counterintelligence is, perhaps, Harvard Law.

    I’m impressed that she “founded Yale Law School’s first theater troupe, the Court Jesters.” Perhaps she wasn’t a spy or a counterspy, but played one once, in a skit.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  101. Beldar- The mindset of the ad-boys engineering the consumers brain to buy crappy subaru vehicles seems borderline criminal.

    mg (31009b)

  102. “FBI stopped supporting DNC Propaganda points..”

    Just stop..

    Trumplandia was an actual place in New York FBI.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  103. More examples of car comparative advertising. It seems like the high performance manufacturers are more willing to do these ads. Maybe their sales are more susceptible to hard times, or maybe they see less downside/risk because their products are so good.

    DRJ (15874d)

  104. DRJ, that is indeed an interesting set of examples at your link. I thought I was going to have a really good opportunity to develop some expertise on the legal limits of what competitors can and cannot say about their competitors in their advertisements a few years ago: I got hired to take over defending a business disparagement dispute between two tax preparation firms. But at the same time my client was deciding it needed me or someone to replace the lawyer it originally hired, who’d been expensively ineffective, its competitor fired its general counsel, whose successor decided that before firing its expensively ineffective lawyer, she and I ought to talk. We had a very pleasant lunch, talked about the judge and her likely frustration with the case, and a variety of other topics. We continued chatting by email and worked out a walk-away settlement later that week. My client was astonished that I had worked myself out of a job within 48 hours after filing my notice of appearance, but sometimes that happens, and all the lawyerly fun of well-paid conflict must be foregone for the greater good.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  105. Ben burn,

    Would you agree the FBI did not treat the Clinton email investigation, or almost any investigation involving the Clintons, like normal investigations?

    DRJ (15874d)

  106. That must certainly be another great story, Beldar, in every sense of the word.

    DRJ (15874d)

  107. Bentley says it all.

    mg (31009b)

  108. Jon Hamm sold out with the HR Block “Get your taxes won” gig…reminds me of another broken/deferred promise.

    Those Chevy focus groups look like they could give Tinder a run for their money, though. Lots of attainable targets –especially if your at the luxury brand focus group down the hall.

    urbanleftbehind (847a06)

  109. DRJ: your wording makes it necessary to say no, the FBI did not conduct normally. However, the circumstances were far from normal.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  110. http://dailycaller.com/2017/09/17/tucker-trump-thinks-tv-more-accurately-reveals-the-publics-beliefs-than-polls-do/

    Is this NEWS? EPIPHANY? Is Lowest Common Denominator an unfamiliar idea?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  111. 96. Beldar (fa637a) — 9/17/2017 @ 5:02 pm

    manufacturers are now competing to offer the most generous-seeming promotional discounts for Houstonians obliged to buy new cars and trucks as a result of the storm and flooding.

    They’re not actually obliged to buy a car, but they may soon have insurance money, and they are much more likely to buy a car. THe New York Times reporter in Houston lost two cars, one owned by the New York Times, and I think he wrote in an article that he’s using someone else’s (not so good) car till the NYT gets him another one, and they decided to lease rather than replace his wife’s car.

    How many cars will actually be bought is very variable, and that’s why they are offering discounts, although apparently deliberately making them different from what any competitor offers, so it is difficult or impossible to calculate which is worth more or even what they are worth. Mercedes Benz does not compete on price, but they did want to advertise availability and remind people about the car.

    .

    Sammy Finkelman (58e1fc)

  112. 100 shipwreckedcrew (56b591) — 9/17/2017 @ 5:29 pm

    That;s interesting.

    But then Ms. Rangappa starts to explain why its important that the Russians or other foreign governments not know what US intelligence has uncovered or confirmed, and vice versa, lest they change-up their operations after we have already figured them out,

    Maybe it’s the U.S. intelligence agencies that ought to change their operations.

    Anyway, she’s arguing the Russians might change their disinformation tactics. If they don’t, that means it is still working. What good is that? Isn’t there some value in more people figuting out the past?

    By this logic, publicizing the anti-Magnitsky efforts of the Russians, as Patterico is about to do, is a bad idea. Maybe the Russians might take notice if too many people read it, and improve the way they work.

    Sammy Finkelman (58e1fc)

  113. Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke has recommended cutbacks or other changes to nearly half the geographic national monuments he recently reviewed at the request of President Donald Trump, according to a report sent to the White House and reviewed by The Wall Street Journal.

    interesting to read in context of the fake news about “Paris Agreement withdrawal”

    this is far outside the portfolios of both Tillerboobs and anti-semitic US Army general HR McMaster both

    happyfeet (28a91b)


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