Patterico's Pontifications

9/3/2017

Relax. It’s OK That You Voted for Donald Trump.

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 4:30 pm



Those of us who refused to vote for Donald Trump often find that, if we criticize Trump these days, people respond with some variant of “BUT HILLARY!!” Here is a typical exchange:

ME: Trump’s latest statements show that he cares more about himself, his image, and his crowd sizes than he cares about the country.

TRUMP SUPPORTER: At least he’s not Hillary!

These responses are genuinely puzzling to those of us who opposed Trump. Hillary Clinton is not the President of the United States. Conservatives who opposed Trump are happy about that. We didn’t want either Trump or Hillary to be President. So why do people keep bringing her up? She’s ancient history.

Today I figured out why people do this. I figured out why many people are so reflexively defensive of Trump.

They’re justifying their decision to vote for him. And they see every criticism of Trump as a criticism of them, for having voted for him.

You, the reluctant Trump voter, think that if I criticize Trump, that I am reproaching you for having voted for him.

When I write: “I criticize Trump for action x” you, the reluctant Trump voter, read my statement as saying: “I criticize you because you voted for Trump.”

But I’m not criticizing you for having voted Trump.

I’m not. Really!

Relax. It’s OK with me that you voted for Donald Trump.

I understand you. I understand why you did what you did. You didn’t vote for Trump because you thought he was a great guy. You didn’t vote for Trump because you believed all his promises, or because you thought he was honest.

You just really, really hated Hillary. You didn’t want her to be President.

I get it. I didn’t either.

I have always said — always — that I fully understood why someone would vote Trump in a general election against Hillary Clinton. (If you voted for him in the primaries, that’s a different discussion entirely.) I’ve never criticized a general election vote for Trump. I’ve never criticized the people who cast that vote.

But some people are — no offense intended — a bit defensive about it.

This realization explains why every time I criticize something Trump does, I get a chorus of BUT HILLARY! in response. If you are reinterpreting my criticism of Trump as a criticism of you, then “BUT HILLARY!” makes perfect sense.

But that’s not what I’m saying. I’m not criticizing you. I’m just criticizing Trump.

Trump supporters often tell me that I have to accept the fact that Trump is president and get past it — as if I need to be told that. I’ve said many times that I accept it. I think y’all need to accept it too. His election is a given. He’s there in the Oval Office.

And now, if he acts like a buffoon or a jackass, or fails to make the “great deals” he promised us, or wastes his time on Twitter, or shows an obsession with crowds and his own ego at the expense of the nation, he deserves criticism for that.

If I level that criticism, I am not criticizing you.

I’m criticizing Donald Trump. Not you.

I respect people who cast a vote for Donald Trump to avoid Hillary Clinton becoming President. I also respect people who, like myself, found Trump a bridge too far and could not bring themselves to cast a vote for the man. If you can respect my position, I can respect yours. (If you can’t respect my position, and you’re going to throw in with the crowd that talks tough and calls other people names but runs from every actual real life fight, that is also a different discussion.)

So please. Stop taking it personally if I criticize Donald Trump. It doesn’t mean I’m attacking you for having voted for him. I know you weren’t taken in by him. I understand the fact that you considered him the lesser of two evils. You and I are cool as far as I’m concerned.

Shake on it?

[Cross-posted at RedState and The Jury Talks Back.]

393 Responses to “Relax. It’s OK That You Voted for Donald Trump.”

  1. There will be all sorts of reactions to this. But the post is directed at my friends who fit the description in the post: the reluctant Trump supporters who voted for him in the general election to keep Hillary out of office.

    You and I might disagree about the long-term effect of Donald Trump taking over the Republican party. But the point of this post is that I do not mean my criticisms of Trump as a personal attack on you.

    The post is intended as a sort of olive branch. Whether it’s taken that way is out of my control.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  2. i wish i’d voted for him i really do

    wish it with all my heart

    i’ve enjoyed having him in there, being president and all

    he gives me the courage to hope

    i’d lost that, and that was a dark time for me

    but not no more!

    ring the bell and pass the bottle there’s a merry glint in my eye again!

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  3. Well said. We should be willing to criticize and hold Trump accountable, just like we did Obama. Criticism should be honestly considered, but the critic should not be immediately dismissed as a Trumper hater just because they saw something negative in him. That is simply an excuse to ignore what could be a very solid assessment of the president at that given time.

    Unfortunately, by dismissing the critic right off the bat, it conveniently relieves one from having to seriously look at the validity of the criticism.

    So much of the response to Trump depends on an individual’s willingness to be honest, and what is really at stake: Trump, or one’s own reputation.

    Dana (023079)

  4. So much of the response to Trump depends on an individual’s willingness to be honest, and what is really at stake: Trump, or one’s own reputation.

    I would add party loyalty to this mix as well.

    Dana (023079)

  5. If you don’t like Hillary, why would you vote for a man who said:

    “I know Hillary and I think she’d make a great president”?

    A man who donated thousands of dollars to trying to get Hillary elected president?

    And donated thousands upon thousands more to Hillary’s friends Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Chuck Schumer, John Kerry, Jimmy Carter, Charlie Rangel and Anthony Weiner?

    Hillary’s flaws are innumerable, but one thing she didn’t ever do was endorse an obviously unfit moron like Donald Trump for president, whereas Donald Trump did endorse her.

    Dave (445e97)

  6. If you don’t like Hillary, why would you vote for a man who said:

    “I know Hillary and I think she’d make a great president”?

    you just don’t get it

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  7. The policy errors were mostly due to half measures but even those like the very mild immigration pause have been subject to much nshing of teeth, when Monica Crowley was run out of contention by a spurious representation you did not correct

    narciso (d1f714)

  8. yes yes CNN did fake news on Monica

    it was a vicious and baseless attack

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  9. When I fins someone on FB or LI complaining about Trump’s latest outrage, I simply reply “I sleep very well in the knowledge that HRC is not POTUS”. The idea is not to show that Trump is better, it is to simply rub their noses in it.

    When they are outraged at everything, it just pisses them off more to remind the that Hillary is probably drinking alone in the dark.

    Darth Chcolate (6710fb)

  10. I’m one of those guys you are referring, Patterico. I was a Walker guy in the primaries but once Trump won all I could do is either vote for him or nobody because I surely wasn’t voting for that Hillary thing. We had enough leftists for a lifetime and see where it’s brought us.

    That said I really don’t think you’re attacking me when you attack Trump. As you stated “You and I might disagree about the long-term effect of Donald Trump taking over the Republican party” which is okay now that Trump won. My concern was the long-term effect of Hillary on America.

    The thing is the hitting on Trump is relentless. It’s on all the channels 24/7. I get it when I turn on my computer every day first from FiOS then fro AOL. Never, ever, ever a nice word about the guy. Anyway, sure I’m shakin’ your hand. I have no reason not to, you’re an honorable guy.

    Rev.Hoagie® (630eca)

  11. I figured out why many people are so reflexively defensive of Trump. They’re justifying their decision to vote for him. And they see every criticism of Trump as a criticism of them, for having voted for him.

    Interesting.

    OTOH, Don’t really see ‘many people being reflexively defensive’ about voting for Trump. They’re proud of it; show up at rallies and such. They knew what they were getting, the ‘Full Monty’Access Hollywood tape et al. You may have it backwards- perhaps it’s the POV/position as to how anybody “in their right mind” could have possibly been suckered into voting for Trump in the first place that’s seeking a rationale; a justification and defense. It’s a natural enough. For some, he was merely the lesser of two evils or a protest vote against the powers that be; for others, a tactic in line w/a grander strategy: a means to an end. But setting aside the idiosyncrasies of the electoral system, just tallying the popular vote alone shows he ‘lost’ and she ‘won.’ But that’s ‘ancient history’ now, too.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  12. Well aol isn’t that big a surprise, the uffington has nested their like a facehugger but the tone is almost uniformly negative. The Dean Rhodes network for instance had hagiographic profiles of Alec baldwin and the thevblack panthers.

    narciso (d1f714)

  13. There is an old Jewish joke that is appropriate here. A rabbi, freshly ordained, was hired by a small town for their position. As he was settling in his family, the local sexton (that’s like a lay assistant) came in and said, “So-and-so just died. Your job as rabbi is to give the eulogy.”

    Not knowing the person, the new young rabbi went door to door to ask about the deceased. But everyone could only speak ill of him. “He was a terrible miser.” “He beat his wife.” “He never attended prayers.” And on and on.

    So the rabbi showed up to the funereal with nothing to say. He stands up and announces, “Is there no one who has anything good to say about the deceased?” Total silence. Again, “Can no one say anything nice about him?” Again silence. “Please, can’t anyone think of anything positive to say about him?”

    Then a small voice from the back of the room piped up, “Yeah! I knew his brother from the the next town. He was even worse!”

    * * *

    Yes, Hillary was worse. But that’s not saying much.

    Bored Lawyer (fe5e63)

  14. I’m a falling out of favor of Trump. He can’t drain the kitchen sink right now. All the generals can go pound sand. Give me a Captain anyday. You have to show me more than your wife, Mr. President.

    mg (31009b)

  15. Yes forcing out general Flynn, was perhaps his greatest error, and McMaster has pushed all the dissident thinkers out of the nsc

    narciso (d1f714)

  16. And I don’t buy the silly argument you have more policy input on the outside, specially when the replacements are swamp rats

    narciso (d1f714)

  17. I’ll stipulate pleasure at the apparent lesser evil having prevailed but his Platoons of Pepes are already deserting and revolting proles are notorious for receiving more than a full measure of what they deserve. The minimal results achieved to date are absolutely no guarantee of anything like a rosy future.

    Rick Ballard (48cc19)

  18. when Monica Crowley was run out of contention by a spurious representation you did not correct

    There was nothing spurious about the plagiarism charges against Monica Crowley.

    Andrew McCarthy disingenuously cited a copyright lawyer, who argued that Crowley probably could not be successfully sued for plagiarism, but the charge was academic dishonesty, not copyright infringement.

    Plagiarism charges against Monica Crowley were not “debunked”

    Dave (445e97)

  19. “Yes, Hillary was worse. But that’s not saying much.”

    True.

    But it is something.

    People who expect politicians to be wonderful, outstanding, fantastic individuals are very weird. Politicians are by nature grandstanding egomaniacs. People in general are not wonderful, outstanding, fantastic individuals.

    He’s better than average, though maybe not by much. Let me paraphrase George Carlin: “Think of how rotten the average politician is, and realize half of them are worse than that.”

    That’s why the howling at and about Trump by those more or less on the same side as Trump annoys me. It denies reality and is useless in helping Trump see the best path.

    From where I sit way up here in the mouse of Canada, fearfully watching the American elephant rolling and lumbering around, I worry that very highly respected American conservatives like Patterico have completely blown any influence they might have brought to bear on Trump by their intemperate language.

    “Hey there Trump, you stupid, egomaniac, lying, asshole, how come you’re not listening to me?”

    Fred Z (f6c4c3)

  20. Well your countrymen through out a dependable fellow in Harper for prime minister zoolander.

    narciso (d1f714)

  21. I’m one of those guys you are referring, Patterico. I was a Walker guy in the primaries but once Trump won…

    Walker was my first choice as well, I even donated money to him when he announced his candidacy, but he quit more than four months before the first votes were cast in Iowa…

    Dave (445e97)

  22. Anyways I’ve been watching German productions of Guido brunetti, with English subtitles, there’s also offerings of montalbano.

    narciso (d1f714)

  23. I never took it personally. I just felt that you were moving through the stages of grief somehow at your own pace. Kinda like me when I think about Jerry Brown and the CA Dems. I like everything about CA except the economic and societal wreckage they have produced, and I just can’t get over it, and I really don’t want to move yet. Maybe I need counseling or something.

    Patricia (5fc097)

  24. My sentiments exactly. There are some things that President Trump has done that I really like. There are things he’s done I really don’t like. I believe that if Hillary were elected, there would be NOTHING she does that I would like.

    Romey (0e14ab)

  25. i couldn’t be complicit in what california’s doing on people there

    it’s deeply, deeply wrong

    feudalistic and callous

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  26. You moved to Illinois, pikachu I hope the benefits package was worth it.

    narciso (d1f714)

  27. We have water and weather.

    nk (dbc370)

  28. Make that “four seasons in the year”.

    nk (dbc370)

  29. Having grown up in jersey, winter is overrated.

    narciso (d1f714)

  30. it’s not forever

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  31. It just felt like it was:

    http://datechguyblog.com/2017/09/01/damned-if-you-do/

    narciso (d1f714)

  32. Clueless. Totally clueless.

    But hey, that’s your problem.

    tom swift (2e70e0)

  33. @ Patricia,

    I like everything about CA except the economic and societal wreckage they have produced, and I just can’t get over it, and I really don’t want to move yet. Maybe I need counseling or something.

    Lol, Patricia. Feel the same. Kids were here talking about moving to Montana and/or anywhere but Cali, and I got a little nauseous… Maybe Cali is the quintessential love-hate relationship: can’t live with it, can’t live without it, even though we’re better taxed to death and “progressing” further and further left.

    Dana (023079)

  34. Re 26, I think home heating assistance is the yoke by which the blue and weak red maintain their hold on their electorate. Its why IL and NJ wont recover and why AZ, TX and FL wont flip.

    urbanleftbehind (847a06)

  35. Dana, my parents grew up in California. So did I, in Southern California. Undergrad, grad school, postdoc, biotech, and my experience as a faculty member.

    In my 40s, I moved to the Pacific Northwest. It is lovely here.

    Maybe I will keep moving North!

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  36. That would be 29), but that’s not the reason.

    narciso (d1f714)

  37. pastor osteen’s admitting now his garish jesus palace never flooded

    i accept his word for it he was just being cautious by leaving people out in the soup

    that’s probably what jesus would have done too

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  38. 27, we also have municipalities that arent stingy with road salt…you actually are expected to have a pickup or SUV in NWI. Wisconsin is dry cold so it doesn’t matter as much.

    urbanleftbehind (847a06)

  39. color season’s almost on you guys my uncle just got a fancy convertible he lives close to the wisconsin and i was looking at all the fun 2-3 day road trips they could do

    i ended up just making myself all kind of envious

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  40. You know, pretty much all the Republicans in Congress pre-date Trump. There’s a lot they could be doing, that their majorities give them the power to do, but they aren’t doing any of it.

    For example, repealing/replacing Obamacare. In the end, a lot of excuses and no action.

    And that’s why we got Trump, when you get right down to it. The Democrats are too busy with identity politics and bathroom issues, and the Republicans don’t seem to have interest doing anything with their seats but warming them.

    Trump, let me hasten to add, isn’t a solution. I’m starting to think he is God’s judgment on the electorate, a lesson on limiting the power of government.

    Frederick (1096b5)

  41. Tribalism.

    A deep need within human nature is to belong to a community (tribe). Being affirmed is another deep-seated desire. These are each elements of the phenomena you describe, Pat.

    Identity politics of a sort.

    I fully admit the difficulty in criticizing Reagan, and more recently, Cruz. I identify with them. Deeply. It takes work to accept they (therefore myself (unconscious self)) are wrong. It is an icky realization to have to process.

    Anyway, Sowell teaches to always honor and value self-interest, human nature, when seeking to understand economic motivations and behaviors. The same holds for politics. Or anything else.

    Ed from SFV (3400a5)

  42. Doesn’t have to rise as high as Obamacare either.

    Passing a budget within our means, for example. Confirming judges. That sort of thing. (Blue slips are not an excuse anymore than filibusters are, those rules can be changed.)

    We’ve seen activist Congresses in our lifetime. Why not now? Trump can’t be blamed, it’s mostly the same people now as two years ago.

    Frederick (1096b5)

  43. @Patterico: Donald Trump taking over the Republican party.

    But this hasn’t happened. He got nominated, yes, but he’s not the boss of the Republican party. The Republicans in Congress predate him, mostly, and they’ve been doing whatever they want. Their plans didn’t include repealing Obamacare, for example–for the simple fact that they don’t agree on what they want to see in Obamacare’s place, and that’s nothing to do with Trump.

    If the GOP wants to go to superdelegates or something they can prevent outsiders from getting nominations, perhaps. Not sure going in the Dem direction on this is the smart move.

    Frederick (1096b5)

  44. not one of these filthy senators had a word to say about sleazy deranged John McCain’s juvenile cowardly antics

    that tells you all you need to know really

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  45. De mortuis nil nisi bonum.

    nk (dbc370)

  46. yeah that’s not really a me thing

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  47. It’s okay that you preferred Hillary and wanted her to win because TRUMP.

    But she didn’t and the nation will go on for another few days as well. Get over it.

    NJRob (7f4bec)

  48. It’s okay that you preferred Hillary and wanted her to win because TRUMP.

    But she didn’t and the nation will go on for another few days as well. Get over it.

    Who are you talking to? The air? Some ghost?

    If it is a commenter here, be specific.

    It can’t be me.

    Patterico (10a746)

  49. did we know Susan Molinari is the Vice President of Public Policy and Government Relations at Google

    I feel like nobody told me this

    (this keeps happening)

    Molinari, now acting as Google’s Vice President of Public Policy and Government Relations, has been responsible for the company funding a number of right-wing organizations, shifting away from its previous support for renewable energy, and politically supporting politicians who have been criticized by environmentalists for their alleged anti-environmentalism. In 2013, under Molinari’s leadership, Google came under fire for its support of ALEC.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  50. the one what preferred Hillary was Mr. Dustin

    i can’t think of anyone else what did

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  51. Mrs bill paxon, they’ll launched that coup attempt against newt in the 90s, which didn’t succeed but did put blood in the water, eventually newt was replaced by that upstanding gent Dennis hastert, who among other things let abramoff off his leash. The clique found a way to get rid of delay as well, it only took three tries by Ronnie earle

    narciso (d1f714)

  52. I have lots of problems with Trump but that doesn’t mean I am ashamed to have voted for him. And I don’t take it personally if he is appropriately criticized. I do have a problem when he is wrongly attacked.

    I am having trouble with the premise of this thread.

    AZ Bob (f7a491)

  53. @54. I am having trouble with the premise of this thread.

    See #11. You’re ‘line of country’ is similar. It may be less about what ‘you’ voted for and more about those who opposed him trying to grasp/process/rationalize/accept why you’d not naturally have voted against. A status quo vs. change thing.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  54. have lots of problems with Trump but that doesn’t mean I am ashamed to have voted for him.

    Who said that?

    You don’t say “but Hillary” to me all the time either.

    Patterico (db58a6)

  55. the one what preferred Hillary was Mr. Dustin

    i can’t think of anyone else what did

    I didn’t see Dustin in this thread though.

    So NJRob has confused me.

    Patterico (10a746)

  56. I am curious about how far people would take the “anybody but Hillary” logic (granted, it is harder to go much farther than a moronic, mentally unstable, self-admitted sexual predator who, himself, endorsed Hillary – but I digress…).

    What if it had been:

    Hillary vs. David Duke?

    or

    Hillary vs. Charlie Sheen?

    or

    Hillary vs. Terry Nichols?

    or

    Hillary vs. Jerry Sandusky?

    or

    Hillary vs. Bernie Madoff?

    Would you have voted for Hillary’s opponent in all of these scenarios?

    Dave (445e97)

  57. I had been holding out against hope that Trump would reprise Slim Pickens’ role as Major Kong and gleefully piggyback a nuclear bomb as it descended upon and detonated at ground zero in our nation’s capital. That’s clearly not going to happen. Instead, Trump will be run out of office and the GOP will be tarnished by that as well as their inability to govern. And so mid-terms will be a disaster for the Republicans, who will be unable to fumigate the stink from the GOP & Trump brands. Democrats will return to power, misinterpreting the carnage as a mandate, and overreach, as they always do. All the while an overdue recession will tighten the screws even further.

    We can then expect ordinary Americans to band together, without regard to political ideology, providing the impetus for a vicious revolt. This may take two years, or five. But what comes after Trump will not be pleasant. Trump’s ability to make a deal or whether someone voted for him will be nothing more than quaint notions that won’t even qualify as footnotes when the history is written.

    Lenny (5ea732)

  58. R.I.P. Walter Becker — guitarist, bassist, songwriter, one half of Steely Dan

    Icy (d8e186)

  59. I’m still not ashamed that I voted for Evan McMullin, although his turn from being a promoter of conservatism to attacking Trump for anything and everything has soured me on repeating that vote in the future.

    Icy (d8e186)

  60. Patterico: have you not figured out that we DONT CARE if you think it ok we voted for Trump. He was not my first choice but I am nnot as unhappy now as I was under Obama with his lawlessness. However you SHOULD CARE that WE CARE that you did not vote for Trump and continue to undermine on EVERYTHING he does. I respect you a lot less.

    sd Harms (84960b)

  61. It’s rarely difficult to discern disagreement with what Trump does by virtue of rational views of what Trump does versus disagreement with what Trump does due to visceral hatred of Trump.

    Richard Aubrey (0d7df4)

  62. So when his budget cut discretionary spending, yawn, when it showed at least a red light to the regimes in havana and their minime, in caracas, which operates like a Berkeley, now as wall prototypes
    Are being bandied, so the objections are mostly perceived microagressions.

    Where he has fallen short is with the rhodes road show, which favored another Russian client, were headed into a proxynwar over Ukraine is that what you want?

    narciso (d1f714)

  63. Comment #10 above tends to say what I’d like to say better than I can say it. That and the never-Trump crowd still sometimes seems to want him to fail. He has is very real problems that are self-inflicted. But I’ve held my nose many times in the voting booth, including for Walter Mondale when I was younger and on the other side, and the one that really, really made me gag – John McCain in 2008. McCain has distressed me enough in the past 9 years that I sometimes wonder if knowing what I know now I’d still vote for him, and I strongly suspect that I’d vote for a third party candidate. Yet I also understand why he’s the ultimate never-Trumper.

    I think a lot of responses like some that I gave earlier are in part because I’m commenting on a site where I at least believe I can reason with Trump detractors and the constant over-the-top HuffPo and CNN drumbeat makes it just about impossible to refrain from defending Trump when you come across someone with legitimate gripes about him but who is rational.

    Lazlo Toth (a52ca5)

  64. Aai’ve often stated lasso I voted for the huntress, the one who actually earned of what was to come, he jusrpt happened to be on the ballot, I didn’t know at the time he had stabbed her in the back in the form of the Jones memo, that Mccain gave her up as readily as his first wife that stood by him through his long Poe status, for a beer heiress.

    narciso (d1f714)

  65. I didn’t see Dustin in this thread though.

    So NJRob has confused me.

    Patterico (10a746) — 9/3/2017 @ 11:14 pm

    The number of emotive threads and comments about Trump are tiresome. I know they get the most hits and comments, especially by the same few leftist trolls, but I fail to see how they are useful unless they are cathartic. If they’re helpful in some way to help people get over the election, carry on. But, if they are just a way to maintain bitterness and hold a grudge, get over it.

    My remarks were just meant as a general “bah, humbug” to the entire premise. I don’t care when lefties like Dave, ASPCA, Burnie and the rest rant about Trump because they’re lefties. He could create full employment and they’d complain that government personnel were losing work from the lack of unemployment claims. It is what it is.

    But you are better than that. When you focus on specific policies or debates your writing is so strong. But when you talk about Trump, it’s constantly personal. Like your cheap shot about his wife.

    I remember you giving the benefit of the doubt to Obama over and over even though we all knew he was a dyed in the wool Stalinist. You’ve never done the same for Trump and I understand why. He’s been in the public eye much longer and has a messier public persona. But you still never took cheap shots at Obama that you take at Trump.

    Like your last post on his lack of “deal-making.” You cannot make deals when your own party refuses to support the platforms they ran on. They are liars and cheats who tell their voters one thing, then vote for the exact opposite. But you blame Trump for these actions instead of holding the individuals who are betraying their own promises.

    Carry on.

    NJRob (7f4bec)

  66. Trump knew what he was getting into but he still promised “great deals.”

    And this is Patterico’s blog. He let’s you come here and criticize him but even that’s not enough for you. You want him to shut up about certain topics when you disagree with him. As a commenter said in another thread, that’s nonsense.

    DRJ (15874d)

  67. He suspect Ted, trusting Ryan and mcconnnell was like sending my puppy to the taxidermist for a haircut,

    narciso (d1f714)

  68. It’s tragic, this soul- searching. It’s like Ichabod Crane and the Horseman looking for his head.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  69. Relax Patterico, it’s OK you didn’t vote for The Donald. Everyone makes a mistake from time to time. That’s why they put erasers on pencils.

    Just be glad there were enough sensible voters who ignored your wrongheaded political assessment and worked to elect the right man when it counted.

    The sting of criticism you feel now stems not from opinions expressed prior to the election, but from your nearly uninterrupted subsequent fault finding. So, give us, your loyal friends and admirers, a break – We forgive you, won’t you forgive us?

    ropelight (db9e35)

  70. The arrogance is breathtaking but they learned from the master.

    DRJ (15874d)

  71. Trumps the DACA Disco Duck.

    It is right for there to be consequences for those who intentionally entered this country illegally,” Lankford said in a statement. “However, we as Americans do not hold children legally accountable for the actions of their parents.”

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  72. Login | Register

    Scarborough On Wall: More Mexicans Leaving U.S. Than Coming In
    By Susie Madrak
    20 Share on
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    9/04/17 6:30am

    2 hours ago by Susie Madrak336
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    Morning Joe co-host Joe Scarborough asked Katy Kay about the likelihood of the Republican Congress giving Trump his beloved wall.

    ADVERTISING

    “Last week, you had the head of the Freedom Caucus saying, ‘Wall, schmall.’ Even the Freedom Caucus are saying, ‘We’re not going to shut down the government to give Donald Trump money for the wall that nobody needs,” Scarborough said.

    “Right, and the president is saying yes, that’s something he considers a possibility,” Kay said.

    “Everybody now seems to accept, except from the White House, officially, that Mexico is not going to pay for this wall. Sara Huckabee Sanders was asked about that. She said the president didn’t say that Mexico wasn’t going to pay for the wall.

    “They twisted themselves into this ridiculous situation where he spent all that time saying we’re going to have the wall. We’re going to get the Mexicans to pay for it. It’s patently obvious the Mexicans are not paying for it, and the Republicans are saying, ‘We don’t want to pay for this wall, either.”

    “Illegal immigration is down,” Scarborough said. “Mexicans that came here and went across the border illegally are going home. I mean, more are going home than coming here. This suspect the huge upsurge we saw during the Bush and Obama administration, and they were starting to go back before Donald Trump ran for president.

    “Are you suggesting that facts contrary to a Trump platform are dispositive?” Jon Meacham said.

    Meacham said the wall promise and now the debate about the finances “are a perfect metaphor for the entire drama of 2016/2017.”

    “It’s an effective communications political weapon. It’s not particularly fact-based. it’s probably never going to happen. and, yet, the 30 to 35% or so of hardcore Trump supporters are probably going to stick with him on it.”

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  73. Like the milquetoast stories upthread who wonder how they can lose to commissar corbyn for real.

    narciso (d1f714)

  74. If all this happens, Trump could end up with only the narrow constituency of his former Bete Noire El Jeb. Reagan at least waited until year 6 of 8.

    urbanleftbehind (2895f9)

  75. Yes, but imagine the stenchpower of the distilled essence. Parts per billion still toxic for the Body Politic.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  76. If Beto Oroarke comes out for a wall on the dual condition that Dacans are amnetized and the first foundation pours are in west TX and NM (which gets several others in line), is Trump tempted to screw Cruz in his reelection (“all that talk, but the other guy got the Wall rolling)?

    urbanleftbehind (2895f9)

  77. No, children are not responsible for the crimes of their parents, nor should the fruits of poison trees thereby be allowed to trespass in perpetuity and put down roots in the soil of others.

    ropelight (db9e35)

  78. Is this the reasoned commentary you are striving for:

    http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/trumps-decision-on-daca-expected-tuesday

    narciso (d1f714)

  79. Trump’s presidency isn’t the biggest domestic problem in America the expanding administrative state and the impotent republican majority that prefers political brinkmanship to regular order and the rule of law to keep the favor factory open is. Arguing about the boss’s personal foibles and failings may be satisfying at happy hour but does nothing to advance the principled values and policies so many of us share. Nor is it the biggest international problem for US. There is probably less agreement on how to use the tools of national power in dealing with the threats we face but more agreement among us on the need to do it.

    Mattis, Tillerson and Kelly demonstrate in both words and deeds daily how to live with the boss’s shortcomings and advance the nation’s interest. This site is at its most persuasive when it stays focused on problems and solutions as they do and less effective when it’s bogged down on the petty and personal.

    The founders left US with the framework and tools for living with and dealing with our problems and faulty leaders that has stood the test of time despite the efforts of many to pull us apart. We’ll survive Trump if we stay focused on righting the ship and save the rest for his post-presidency.

    crazy (11d38b)

  80. Crazy has a good thought but have you considered the Chernobyl effect on the Republican Party? The clean up after his parade will be filling Trainloads of road apples in his hoary wake. People will not forget that Republicans delivered the Trump.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  81. It is right for there to be consequences for those who intentionally entered this country illegally,” Lankford said in a statement. “However, we as Americans do not hold children legally accountable for the actions of their parents.”

    Fuzzy thinking and dishonest rhetoric. We are making roughly 7 billion people in the world “legally accountable for the actions of their parents” (conceiving them for a start) by not making them U.S. citizens or residents. The only difference between them and the Dreamers is that their parents did not manage to sneak them into the country.

    nk (dbc370)

  82. 83, stand on the corner of Madison and Pulaski or 79th and Cottage Grove in Chicago and say that, weve put up with that poison since the Truman administration. Thats why when push comes to shove, Planned Parenthood will survive, true concern from many not withstanding.

    urbanleftbehind (2895f9)

  83. The biggest domestic problem in America is peace and prosperity. It has led us to decadence and frivolity and our country is rotting from within like a person who has both Type II diabetes from overeating and STDS (you know where those come from).

    nk (dbc370)

  84. Ach! The morality police!

    Bring back Prohibition..of some sort.

    “You people are enjoying yourselves way too much”

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  85. So a round of mandatory conscription and a depression will fix that.

    narciso (d1f714)

  86. “Hillary vs. David Duke?

    or

    Hillary vs. Charlie Sheen?

    or

    Hillary vs. Terry Nichols?

    or

    Hillary vs. Jerry Sandusky?

    or

    Hillary vs. Bernie Madoff?

    Would you have voted for Hillary’s opponent in all of these scenarios?”

    Straw Man Olympics

    harkin (a92711)

  87. Keep them guessing for 6 months..tee hee.

    ========

    In a nod to reservations held by many lawmakers, the White House plans to delay the enforcement of the president’s decision for six months, giving Congress a window to act, according to one White House official.

    According to this latest probably-intentionally-leaked “plan”, in other words, Trump would be willing to summarily deport 800,000 people brought to this country as children, a pure sop to his racist base—unless the Republican-led Congress got its act together in the next six months to stop him.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  88. “We’re going to do this in a very nice way..”

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  89. No. You’re not all racists. But all perception is selective so you have that going for you.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  90. 91, you know when Bannon poo pooed the prospects of a military response to North Korea, that sealed the fate of the Dacans…no cannon fodder necessitated.

    urbanleftbehind (2895f9)

  91. #88, ulb, you’ll have to stand-in for me, I haven’t been in Chicago for nearly 50 years. But, back in ’64 to ’70 the city’s big shoulders were strong enough to support a young man’s wake-up journey into the unforgiving responsibilities of adulthood, and please don’t get me started on the blasted weather.

    ropelight (db9e35)

  92. The arrogance is breathtaking but they learned from the master.

    DRJ (15874d) — 9/4/2017 @ 7:38 am

    Assuming you are referring to Trump, it seems fairly disingenuous to put the blame on a newcomer. A some point, the buck must stop where it belongs.

    And well said at 85, crazy… and RIP, Walter Becker… I was fortunate to see the Dan at UCI in ’74, good memories of very outstanding musicianship and songwriting.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  93. Ben… your entire boil-on-a-cyst schtick is tedious.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  94. Tedious…(excellent grouping)

    Thanks Rangemaster.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  95. And what a patronizing, condescending post. All it lacks is https://www.amazon.com/Hand-Shock-Buzzer-Electric-Thumbsup/dp/B004WIRWSO

    Be sure to use the link at the right!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  96. Our esteemed host wrote:

    I figured out why many people are so reflexively defensive of Trump. They’re justifying their decision to vote for him. And they see every criticism of Trump as a criticism of them, for having voted for him.

    Uhhh, perhaps you have failed to consider that a lot of people really do like him. They like that he is something the GOP has lacked for a long time, a fighter, someone who doesn’t meekly submit to media criticism, but fights back against it.

    Supposedly, President Trump is going to cancel DACA, with a six-month time frame. If he does so, that would be the President keeping a promise, another mostly unheard of thing by Republicans. Given your criticism of Republican senators who voted against repealing Obysmalcare, I’d think you’d appreciate that. He has cancelled many — not all, and not even enough — of Obama-era government regulations. He is going to sabotage Obaminablecare, by not ‘helping’ with funds to keep it sputtering along. He is ending allowing ‘transgenders’ to serve in the military. He has stepped up enforcement of our immigration laws.

    Not everything he has tried to do has been successful, but a lot of his supporters are giving him a lot of credit for trying. They aren’t trying to somehow justify their votes for Mr Trump, they’re still very proud of their votes for him, and will proudly vote for him again in 2020.

    The Dana who voted for Gary Johnson (f1c5f8)

  97. Why we observe Labor Day

    The Haymarket Affair (also known as the Haymarket Massacre or Haymarket Riot) was the aftermath of a bombing that took place at a labor demonstration on Tuesday May 4, 1886, at Haymarket Square[2] in Chicago. It began as a peaceful rally in support of workers striking for an eight-hour day and in reaction to the killing of several workers the previous day by the police. An unknown person threw a dynamite bomb at police as they acted to disperse the public meeting. The bomb blast and ensuing gunfire resulted in the deaths of seven police officers and at least four civilians; scores of others were wounded.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  98. 100.Ben… your entire boil-on-a-cyst schtick is tedious.
    Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/4/2017 @ 8:28 am

    Every blog has its trolls, Colonel. I consider them a necessary evil. But they are occasionally good for a laugh. For example look at comment #58 by Dave. It would make as much sense if we replaced “Hillary” with Trump. Would he then vote for Trump? Does it matter? Of course not. He’s mentally masturbating.

    Rev.Hoagie® (630eca)


  99. Supposedly, President Trump is going to cancel DACA, with a six-month time frame. If he does so, that would be the President keeping a promise..”

    Simultaneously lying out of the other side of his cake hole.

    “Were going to do it in a very nice way” Torture!

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  100. How about those of us who voted for Trump because if we were going to have a batshit crazy President, we figured he would be more amusing than Her Shrillness?

    Seriously; I agree that Trump is a self-centered jackass. I’m not sure, by any means, that that is the worst thing on display now. For instance, it is less idiotic than the Democrats who are jabbering about removing Trump on the grounds that he is mentally unfit.

    Uh, Democrats? That is a huge can of carnivorous Lovecraftian worms you REALLY don’t want to open.

    C. S. P. Schofield (99bd37)

  101. I did not vote for Trump. One of the reasons is I live in California and it was an easy “principled” decision to make. But I have done similar things before when the outcome was less certain.

    I don’t do this because I think it will make any difference, it is just because if I vote for the lesser evil, the two parties will continue to think I want the evil they offer.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  102. Ah the lizard principle, which modern tories have proven.

    narciso (d1f714)

  103. @104 Why we observe labor Day by resident troll Ben burn. Wrong as usual.

    In 1882 a couple of socialist cats named Matthew Maguire and Peter McGuire, both members of the Socialist Labor Party, proposed an official workers’ holiday in New York to be called “Labor Day.” Both men were also active in their respective labor unions, with Maguire belonging to the International Association of Machinists and Peter McGuire general secretary of the Brotherhood of Carpenters and co-founder of the American Federation of Labor. (Busy little pinkos, weren’t they?)

    While historians differ over which man was principally responsible, our Marxist friends nonetheless had success, and on Sept. 5 of that very year, 1882, the United States saw its first official socialist Labor Day celebrated in New York City.

    As the popularity of New York’s Labor Day gained momentum in urban centers across the U.S., President Grover Cleveland (yes, a Democrat) signed legislation in June of 1894 declaring Labor Day a national holiday to be held, like New York’s own, the first Monday of every September.

    He was not re-elected.

    As you can see the “holiday” was begun in 1882, four years before the Haymarket Riot though over the years sloppy journalism along with sloppy history and the design to *hide* the socialist/communist roots of the holiday have conspired to do their best to obfuscate the real origin of the event.

    For more go to Canadianfreepress.com and look up an article by Matt Barber from September 4, 2016.

    Rev.Hoagie® (630eca)

  104. Dave asked us:

    What if it had been: Hillary vs. David Duke? or Hillary vs. Charlie Sheen? or Hillary vs. Terry Nichols? or Hillary vs. Jerry Sandusky? or Hillary vs. Bernie Madoff?

    Would you have voted for Hillary’s opponent in all of these scenarios?

    As a Johnson voter, I have the obvious answer. Thing is, all of the ‘suggested’ opponents would have been less bad for us than Hillary Clinton!

    What?” you’re saying, incredulously. Simple: most of them were small-minded petty people, out to make a quick buck or hurt only a few people at a time; even Mr Sandusky, to put it crudely, didn’t hurt that many people, not compared to the damage to our entire country Mrs Clinton would have done.

    Under Mrs Clinton, DACA would be continued, and our immigration laws would remain unenforced. Under Mrs Clinton, Neil Gorsuch wouldn’t be on the Supreme Court, but someone like Elizabeth Warren would. Under Mrs Clinton, the response to Kin Jung-un would have been to send North Korea more goodies. Under Mrs Clinton, the Secretary of Defense would be homosexual, and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff would be ‘transgendered.’ Under Mrs Clinton, Defense spending would continue to decline, while welfare would rise.

    The American left are not just wrong, they are dangerously wrong. There was a time, not so long ago, when the left were still patriotic Americans, who simply had different ideas on what was best for our country, but that is no longer the case. Today’s American left are now the anti-American left, the people who want to tear us apart because they think that the US is too rich and too powerful, the people who denigrate Christianity but excuse every excess of Islam, including female genital mutilation, the people who denounce everything which has been good and has worked for our people and our economy. At least Bernie Madoff wouldn’t have been that bad!

    The Dana who didn't vote for either Trump or Clinton (f1c5f8)

  105. Cops are often used as enforcer during Joe Lunchbucket uprisings. Haymarket was just one instance.

    People complain about the corruption of Unions but the Statists forced it.

    Teamsters started as peaceful demonstration, but were forced into an alliance with organized crime because of the organized local political criminals. They hired enforcers just like the State did. That screwed the Union pooch.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  106. Perhaps the offense Trump voters (both supporters and reluctant voters) feel when Trump is criticized becomes greater when it’s delivered with sarcasm, and a mockery (of the candidate). They feel condescended to, given they pulled the lever for him. They then, by extension, believe the sarcasm and mockery is aimed at them. But, if that were true, then criticism leveled at Trump without sarcasm and mockery, would be received, or at least given consideration without a reflexive attack on the one criticizing. Except that we’ve all seen, at least at this blog, that that isn’t so. I’ve been diplomatic many times in my criticism of Trump in posts, and yet there has been the same predictable, reflexive attack in return, to the point of being labeled an “hysteric”. So, it’s not difficult to see that for a large swath of voters, criticizing this president, in any form, no matter how polite and without condescension, is simply verboten.

    All of this is a cautionary tale of sorts to never become so invested in a politician that we shy away from being an equal-opportunity critic when the situation demands. Never have such loyalty to a leader that we are willing to overlook that which is flagrantly unacceptable and/or unconstitutional. One willing to rationalize that which they they would never accept from a president from the opposing party, only serves to weaken the State of our nation just a little bit more. Not holding Trump into account as much as we attempted to hold Obama into account, is dishonest and ultimately harms everyone.

    Dana (023079)

  107. Ok Dana. That excuse wont fly. If you think an honest mistake, repeated daily is worthy of applause I will give y’all a golf clap.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  108. Just for the record, I do not, never did, want Hillary to be our president (Unlike Trump, who very much wanted her to be president and said so). I think Hillary is foolish, inexperienced, and extremely unethical, and her presidency would lead to disasters.

    When I said Trump was worse than Hillary, which is something I think most Americans agree with, I was insulting him harshly.

    This is off topic, as the election is over. But I think reasonable people can disagree about whether Hillary or Trump were worse, and vote however they want. However, I insist that all reasonable people know that both of them are unworthy of power.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  109. The Dana who didn’t vote for either Trump or Clinton (f1c5f8) — 9/4/2017 @ 8:53 am

    Good comment, Dana.

    felipe (023cc9)

  110. I will say the candidates on the board menu was near a dumpster.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  111. 112.Historians confused…Hoagie certain!!!

    I hate to disappoint you Ben, but that’s not a headline it’s a fact. Thank you. The historians you read are confused. Historians who actually want to keep a history of America accurate even with our foibles and errors are the ones I rely on. I try to avoid leftist “historians” as more often than not their agenda gets in the way of the truth. And I always avoid the ones who not only think America is never right but who actually believe America is evil.

    I realize for you leftists everything is an opportunity for propaganda and to move the narrative. That’s why we can’t believe a word that comes out of your collective mouths. A long time ago you stopped being wrong and became deliberately misleading.

    Rev.Hoagie® (630eca)

  112. If you think an honest mistake, repeated daily is worthy of applause I will give y’all a golf clap.
    Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 9/4/2017 @ 9:15 am

    Yet Ben continues, daily, to post his mistaken comments, expecting applause. His self-awareness being zero.

    This is me being charitable.

    felipe (023cc9)

  113. I will say the candidates on the board menu was near a dumpster.
    Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 9/4/2017 @ 9:20 am

    And now you have established your whereabouts.

    felipe (023cc9)

  114. I disagree Hoagie. America isn’t evil, it just needs to actually live by a creed of Christian principles and make this Nation what it was intended. Don’t you want us to reach our potential? Or are you suspicious of such a future?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  115. Hoagie’s account is the correct one. I looked it up, myself, years ago because I have foreign relatives who celebrate May Day. The “May Day is the real Labor Day” BS is Comintern BS.

    nk (dbc370)

  116. Felipe is back to insults…then he’ll wonder why I hit back.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  117. Rev.Hoagie® (630eca) — 9/4/2017 @ 9:25 am

    There are two Christian tenets, among many, which you bring to mind, Hoagie. Chastisement of the wicked, and instruction of the ignorant. Your comment covered them both. Well done.

    felipe (023cc9)

  118. ‘I looked it up

    Lol.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  119. You Christians really should get your facts from the Bible.

    ‘Look it up’

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  120. You had me nodding while reading Dana, right up to the last demonstratively silly and erroneous statement:

    Not holding Trump into account as much as we attempted to hold Obama into account, is dishonest and ultimately harms everyone.

    Whaaa? You’re kidding, right? Exactly when did the newspapers, network and cable news, adadmics and academies, Hollywood and celebrities, TV, movies, teachers ANY leftist organization from BLM to CPUSA and last but not least the Congress of the United States ever try to hold Obama to account for anything?

    Other than that kudos on the comment.

    Rev.Hoagie® (630eca)

  121. Where is ‘chastisement’ of the wicked and instruction of the ignorant found in scripture? I’ll wait.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  122. Why do you find the truth insulting? Do you think that because we both respect sincerity, that I will tolerate trolling and remain silent? That it is you that pushes the boundaries of behavior in a guest, causes me personal embarrassment, since I have attempted to befriend you. Al I can extend you to now, is Christian charity.

    felipe (023cc9)

  123. Felipe..there’s more.

    “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. [14] [b]

    15 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.

    16 “Woe to you, blind guides! You say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gold of the temple is bound by that oath.’ 17 You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? 18 You also say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gift on the altar is bound by that oath.’ 19 You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20 Therefore, anyone who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21 And anyone who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it. 22 And anyone who swears by heaven swears by God’s throne and by the one who sits on it.

    23 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24 You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.

    25 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26 Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  124. 128… Please, for the love of God, leave him waiting! It may be our only hope.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  125. Ben, there are none so blind who refuse to see. Go in peace. If I find your ruin on the roadside, a victim of your fellowman’s hatred, I will dress your wounds and out gold into the hands of the innkeeper.

    felipe (023cc9)

  126. While historians differ over which man was principally responsible, our Marxist friends nonetheless had success, and on Sept. 5 of that very year, 1882, the United States saw its first official socialist Labor Day celebrated in New York City.

    I don’t know if you can call it Marxist, because Marxists did it on May 1. Labor Day was in competition with them, and an attempt to reduce their influence. The reason Samuel Gompers endorsed it was maybe t take it away from politics.

    As the popularity of New York’s Labor Day gained momentum in urban centers across the U.S., President Grover Cleveland (yes, a Democrat) signed legislation in June of 1894 declaring Labor Day a national holiday to be held, like New York’s own, the first Monday of every September.

    He was not re-elected.

    Because of the depression! Also, he was a gold bug.

    Sammy Finkelman (33d055)

  127. Ahhhhhhhhhh! Too late.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  128. and out put gold into the hands of the innkeeper.

    felipe (023cc9)

  129. LOL! Sorry, colonel.

    felipe (023cc9)

  130. Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 9/4/2017 @ 9:40 am

    Ben, those verses apply to you. Your self-awarenes is truly zero.

    felipe (023cc9)

  131. See? Ask and ye shall receive no honest answer from conservchristianity.

    Can’t even corroborate their closely held ideology.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  132. 62. Icy (d8e186) — 9/4/2017 @ 3:17 am

    62.I’m still not ashamed that I voted for Evan McMullin, although his turn from being a promoter of conservatism to attacking Trump for anything and everything has soured me on repeating that vote in the future.

    This same sort of situation could happen again, but Evan McMullin himself is not likely to be on the ballot again. He turned out to be worse than thought.

    I don’t know if my write-in vote in New York was even counted.

    Sammy Finkelman (33d055)

  133. Wrong Felipe. You should know your bible. Matthew 24 was written specifically to religious hypocrites. I’m not the one lionizing his Faith and bragging about how compassionate I am.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  134. Well I took HF out of my filter, so I guess Ben will fill in his spot. See you later ben-orator.

    felipe (023cc9)

  135. Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 9/4/2017 @ 9:48 am

    Ben, I am sure that I am not the first, nor will be the last, to inform you that your grasp of scripture is erroneous.

    felipe (023cc9)

  136. Felipe: Teach me how great teacher.

    Lay out my misunderstanding of Matt 24.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  137. Well, that is one troll I will no longer be bothered by. Thank you Milhouse, wherever you are, for your well written code.

    felipe (023cc9)

  138. #110, Dana’s response to Dave’s question, I agree Dana: Hillary would be worse than any of the other named candidates, much worse actually.

    It’s not conjecture, it’s cold fact, her record proves it. The blood already on her hands likely exceeds that of any Klucker Grand Dragon. Too bad Hillary’s mentor, the late Klan Klegal Senator Robert Byrd (D-WV) isn’t around to set the record straight.

    ropelight (db9e35)

  139. Very convenient Felipe.

    You’re a credit to your religion.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  140. Dana made a good point about the current climate being short on tolerance for criticism of POTUS. Yet I see Hoagie extend his hand so shake our host’s hand in acceptance of the olive branch. This, I find pleasing.

    felipe (023cc9)

  141. extend[ing] his hand to shake our host’s hand

    Yeesh.

    felipe (023cc9)

  142. 58. Dave (445e97) — 9/3/2017 @ 11:36 pm

    Would you have voted for Hillary’s opponent in all of these scenarios?

    How about Hillary Clinton vs. Bill Clinton, if that were possible? And what would such a contest mean?

    Sammy Finkelman (33d055)

  143. Matthew 23 NOT 24.

    bible-bangers know nothing of what they bang on. Most egregious ignorance.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  144. Dana 113, well said — especially the last sentence, because this isn’t solely about what the media and the elites think. Blogs and social media make a difference now, so it matters when everyday people evaluate their leaders’ decisions based on partisanship instead of principle.

    DRJ (15874d)

  145. How about some Monday music.

    felipe (023cc9)

  146. ropelight,

    To me, the danger is that Trump leads to a decade of liberals getting elected President. I think it is short-sighted to think it can’t happen with any President but especially this one, because his polls are so low.

    It is also short-sighted to think there is only one Hillary. All the Democratic leaders will do what she would have done, but likely with more ability and competence. One term of Trump has done little (so far) to undo what Obama and his Democratic Congress did, but it will be a disaster if his Presidency ushers in the return of the Democrats.

    DRJ (15874d)

  147. well the law, had become exceedingly complex over a 1,000 years, one thought 10 rules would suffice, but the multitude, covering all aspects of human endeavor, had become suffocating, also there was not anything resembling a welfare state in that era,

    narciso (d1f714)

  148. You’d think a lawyer would understand the phrase “binary choice”. Either Trump or Hillary was going to be elected President. Folks who did not vote for Trump were directly helping Hillary by weakening the only alternative to her. Res Ipsa Loquitur to coin a phrase. I went from Carson to Rubio to Cruz in the primaries, but the choice in November was castor oil – which is unpleasant – or arsenic – which is fatal. I do not understand folks who could stand idly by and risk arsenic being applied to our freedoms.

    Bill Saracino (ad0096)

  149. We’ve addressed that before, Bill. Your binary choice has short term and long term consequences. I think Patterico is thinking long term.

    DRJ (15874d)

  150. For instance, see my comment 153.

    DRJ (15874d)

  151. prospect. so I’m disappointed with his middle east policy, and the impact on domestic security, he has advanced considerably on Islamic sanctuaries, but they are no longer in raqqua but in western Europe, every day we see signs of it, plus we have new fronts opening up in Myanmar, with the rohyinga army, which follows the model of the kla, or other ethnically basically Islamic insurgencies,

    narciso (d1f714)

  152. one year, drj, it’s felt like four, but the year is not even over, I would have thought that simple self interest, would have focused the attention of the congress, on a few items, but the grishenko
    narrative, seized their attention,

    narciso (d1f714)

  153. and I’ve given examples how other center right figures, are subject to lawfare, by the usual suspects, whether it’s thyssen/Krupp (there’s a certain irony I’ll admit) or the whole fusion/preveson clique

    narciso (d1f714)

  154. felipe, am I correct in recalling that it was you who pointed me to (and perhaps wrote?) some sort of software magic that could tell my web browser not to display selected commenters’ comments here? I didn’t bother to pursue that possibility at the time, but my appreciation for such a product has grown. If I’m not misremembering the source, could I ask you (or whomever, if I am misremembering) perhaps to re-post that information? Thanks again in advance, if so. If I’m misremembering, thanks anyway for your continuing comments here, which I always find to be of interest and usually find myself in agreement with.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  155. And what a patronizing, condescending post.

    Some Trunp supporters are very sensitive, I have noticed. It’s usually the ones who claim not to be.

    Patterico (3418b2)

  156. Felipe seems to be using that software, but it came from Milhous.

    Sammy Finkelman (33d055)

  157. Folks who did not vote for Trump were directly helping Hillary by weakening the only alternative to her.

    By that logic, those who didn’t vote for Hillary were directly helping Trump by weakening the only alternative to him. All you can say is that those who didn’t vote for Trump didn’t help Trump, but you can’t claim they helped the opposition.

    Chuck Bartowski (bc1c71)

  158. For me too, please, felipe. And what browser and platform are you using?

    nk (dbc370)

  159. Narco has something called narcisolater that blocks inconvenient facts.

    I think it’s an excellent idea.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  160. 152- felipe
    indeed. the strings last time were great.

    mg (31009b)

  161. FWIW, this post didn’t strike me as condescending, but rather, exactly the opposite of that — a straight-forward and plain attempt to speak directly, candidly, and respectfully to Trump voters in the specific effort to reassure them that he can and does respect people who voted for Trump as the lesser evil compared to Hillary. That hasn’t deterred, or even much slowed, those who have responded with contempt and with complete disregard of our host’s actual words, because they were too busy projecting their own assumptions about our host’s positions onto him so they could then denounce him in “good conscience.”

    I well recall that the “binary choice” argument was thoroughly aired and discussed, by our host and many, many, many commenters from at least the moment that Trump wrapped up the GOP nomination through election day itself.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  162. FWIW, this post didn’t strike me as condescending, but rather, exactly the opposite of that — a straight-forward and plain attempt to speak directly, candidly, and respectfully to Trump voters in the specific effort to reassure them that he can and does respect people who voted for Trump as the lesser evil compared to Hillary. That hasn’t deterred, or even much slowed, those who have responded with contempt and with complete disregard of our host’s actual words, because they were too busy projecting their own assumptions about our host’s positions onto him so they could then denounce him in “good conscience.”

    Yeah, it’s kind of amazing to me. It was intended explicitly as an olive branch of sorts. The argument is: “It seems like you feel like I’m attacking you when I criticize Trump, but I’m not — because a vote for him was defensible.

    A lot of Trumpers on Twitter, reading only the headline, are calling me condescending (or condensing, as one Trumper put it). It seems that an actual reading of the post would reveal the opposite intent.

    But yes, a “complete disregard of [my] actual words” is happening to some degree, and is indeed par for the course. Witness NJRob, whom I will address next.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  163. Beldar (fa637a) — 9/4/2017 @ 10:46 am

    I beleive it was Milgouse who provided the code. The code is tricky to convey since it contains info that interferes with this sites software in displaying it. Milhouse had originally privided a link to this code to bypass the problem. That link is somewhere on a past thread. In the past, I have attempted to convey this in a cobbled comment, but it has always proved unsatisfactory.

    felipe (023cc9)

  164. The number of emotive threads and comments about Trump are tiresome. I know they get the most hits and comments, especially by the same few leftist trolls, but I fail to see how they are useful unless they are cathartic. If they’re helpful in some way to help people get over the election, carry on. But, if they are just a way to maintain bitterness and hold a grudge, get over it.

    Wow, NJRob. This comment confirms that you were referring to me when you wrote this:

    It’s okay that you preferred Hillary and wanted her to win because TRUMP.

    But she didn’t and the nation will go on for another few days as well. Get over it.

    That’s bad faith in the extreme. Accusing me of preferring Hillary and wanting her to win is a deliberate misreading, not just of my post, but of everything I have said on this blog for well over a year.

    I don’t talk to people who argue in bad faith. There’s no reason to do it. All it does it make me angry while achieving nothing. So I won’t do it.

    Consequently, I am putting you in the “do not respond to this person any longer” category unless you give me a damned good reason to take you out.

    Sad!

    Patterico (115b1f)

  165. I, for one (and maybe the only one?), have no personal emotional investment in Trump — I would have voted for a hyena for president, had it given any indication that its emphasis would be to stop, if not reverse, the country’s accelerating slide farther into unlimited federal governance and the subordination to the state of personal liberty and responsibility. AND if it were electable.
    Re: campaign “promises.” Trump is a salesman. It’s what he does: he sells. Hyperbole is his first language. He is a good salesman. He’s not a logician (much of the time he’s not even coherent.) Most of the population, I’d warrant, has little interest in parsing out the political speech of presidential candidates. What grabbed them/us, is that Trump was the only candidate who dared to openly defy D.C. and its willful ignorance of the dissatisfaction of that segment of the population who is (are?) not being well served by those who pretend to represent them. He seems to be doing what he can, given his own inexperience with the political swamp, his lack of a stable of sycophants ready to step in and do his bidding, and that his “own” party refuses to accept his election and seems even to be working at cross purposes.
    What I would like to see in criticism of Trump & what he has or has not accomplished, is at least a nod of the head toward the handicaps & the toxic bureaucratic and media environment under/in which he is endeavoring to address policy reform/revision (and yes, his own personality traits are fair game, but not the only factors.)
    I am not a regular here, so perhaps it’s been done & I’ve missed those posts. My bad, and sincere apologies, if so.

    ColoComment (e457e2)

  166. it’s a variation on greasemonkey, that a certain poster came up with, cannot defeat the positronic brain, though,

    narciso (d1f714)

  167. Folks who did not vote for Trump were directly helping Hillary by weakening the only alternative to her.

    By that logic, those who didn’t vote for Hillary were directly helping Trump by weakening the only alternative to him. All you can say is that those who didn’t vote for Trump didn’t help Trump, but you can’t claim they helped the opposition.

    Indeed. I did not vote for Hillary. Where is my praise for thereby helping Trump?

    Arguments like this are premised on the assumption that the Republican is owed my vote. Therefore, if I do not cast it for the Republican, I have taken something away from him.

    It’s a false premise. Nobody is owed my vote. Trump did not earn it. He had no entitlement to it.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  168. This is what I am talking about:

    the code

    javascript:(function($){‘use%20strict';var%20n=/^(Ben burn|jmann|Luke|Cruz%20Supporter)/i,aa=$(“.fn”),end=aa.length,i,el,v,p;for(i=0;i<end;i++){el=$(aa[i]);v=el.text();if(n.test(v)){p=el.parents(".comment-body");p.children().not("span,br,.reply").hide();p.css("padding","1em%200%200%203em");p.css("cursor","pointer");p.click(function(){if($(this).children()[0].style.display==="none"){$(this).children().not("span,br,.reply").show();$(this).css("padding","");}else{$(this).children().not("span,br,.reply").hide();$(this).css("padding","1em%200%200%203em");}});}}}(jQuery));

    felipe (023cc9)

  169. @153 DRJ said:

    To me, the danger is that Trump leads to a decade of liberals getting elected President.

    I understand what you’re saying but a decade of liberals getting elected president would have happened if Hillary won too. As a matter of fact Hillary herself would usher in a decade of liberals beginning with Obamba. If she were in 8 years that would be almost two decades of leftists (the only liberals left are classic liberals and they’re on the right).

    At least by electing Trump we signaled we are all not going quietly into the socialist night and we did give some Leftus Interruptus to government as told by the cacophony of leftist sobs and cries.

    Rev.Hoagie® (630eca)

  170. It was intended explicitly as an olive branch of sorts. The argument is: “It seems like you feel like I’m attacking you when I criticize Trump, but I’m not — because a vote for him was defensible.

    nevertheless Mr. patterico this feels a bit disingenuous to me as much as it pains me to say it

    and i will tell you why

    you participated – quite enthusiastically – in sleazy evan mcmullin’s vicious no-platforming campaign against our friend Milo Yonandippledoppolis

    and this was something what caught me quite by surprise and I’ve yet to understand why you involved yourself in it, but i have difficulty squaring that unfortunate episode with the sentiments expressed in this post

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  171. the dagger does come in handy, he can match it to the ones ryan and McConnell have stabbed in his back the last eight months, btw, the latter also received monies from blavatnik, the fracking king of ny, along with schneiderman, and Obama back in 2014

    narciso (d1f714)

  172. nevertheless Mr. patterico this feels a bit disingenuous to me as much as it pains me to say it

    and i will tell you why

    you participated – quite enthusiastically – in sleazy evan mcmullin’s vicious no-platforming campaign against our friend Milo Yonandippledoppolis

    Holy non-sequitur, Batman!

    Also factually false as stated. You will fail to find links and quotes to support your assertion.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  173. Hmm, that actually worked, I think. Anyway:

    To use the code, create a new bookmark in your sidebar and place the code in the location box, then provide a name in the name box. Go to a post, then click on your named bookmark. The code collapses the comments of those named in the names section of the code. Change the names from my list to yours. Don’t forget to use the proper separator.

    felipe (023cc9)

  174. to be sure i’m going by memory

    i fear revisiting those dark times would be grievously triggering for me, and all the best therapy pups are in houston just now

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  175. For nk:

    I am using Firefox (I know!) on Win 7 pro (He77 no, 10 must go!) But the code is browser and opsys independant. it should work on anything – thanks to Milhouse!

    felipe (023cc9)

  176. 152… Nice, felipe! Back atcha http://youtu.be/yBcr4bWve5g

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  177. “A vote for him was defensible..”

    Ok. Continuing support for him post-election is what, more defense mechanisms and justification?

    Ben burn (a59c08)

  178. yes, it’s a tough crowd:

    http://english.alarabiya.net/en/News/gulf/2017/09/04/Houthis-decide-to-arrest-Saleh-and-transfer-him-to-Saada.html
    even with a program, you can’t tell the players

    narciso (d1f714)

  179. @ Hoagie,

    You had me nodding while reading Dana, right up to the last demonstratively silly and erroneous statement:

    Not holding Trump into account as much as we attempted to hold Obama into account, is dishonest and ultimately harms everyone.

    Whaaa? You’re kidding, right? Exactly when did the newspapers, network and cable news, adadmics and academies, Hollywood and celebrities, TV, movies, teachers ANY leftist organization from BLM to CPUSA and last but not least the Congress of the United States ever try to hold Obama to account for anything?

    Other than that kudos on the comment.

    Rev.Hoagie® (630eca) — 9/4/2017 @ 9:35 am

    I’m not talking about them, I’m talking about us: you and me. Whether they’re dishonest, partisan shills, we shouldn’t be.

    Dana (023079)

  180. Looks like orders have gone out from on high, but time will tell… https://twitter.com/mitchellvii/status/904678726545403905

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  181. And I’ve stated my disappointments, in part throwing dr. gorka and general Flynn overboard, you consider that a good thing, I’m surmising because who knows why anymore, it’s curious how haymarket resembles Charlottesville, the left can be as irresponsible as possible, consider Alexandria, and yet their transgressions, and I’m being charitable are barely noted,

    narciso (d1f714)

  182. What a hoot!

    “So glad that departing President Barack Obama took the time to pen a “Dear Don” letter for incoming President Trump.

    POTUS 44 went full professor in his do as I say, not as I did admonishments.

    “We are just temporary occupants of this office. That makes us guardians of those democratic institutions and traditions — like rule of law, separation of powers, equal protection and civil liberties — that our forebears fought and bled for. Regardless of the push and pull of daily politics, it’s up to us to leave those instruments of our democracy at least as strong as we found them.”

    Obama’s IRS persecuted conservative groups. He used intelligence agencies to investigate the media. There is increasing evidence that his Justice Department — at his guidance — snuffed an investigation into Hillary Clinton. And it now appears his administration actively spied on the Trump campaign, unmasking monitored conversations involving Trump associates.”

    http://www.bostonherald.com/news/columnists/tom_shattuck/2017/09/shattuck_too_bad_our_former_prez_didn_t_bother_to_take_his_own?amp

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  183. Dear felipe #177/182: thank you very much! I will have to give that a try. I’m not good at html, but it’s worth a try, and I very much appreciate your posting it again. There are many people here who post things worth reading, and I would like to contribute more myself. Your code might help with the former!

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  184. I just performed a quick test of the code by copy/paste. It failed. The code displayed in the comment is correct, but the code copied into the bookmark introduced spurious characters which prevent proper execution.

    EXample:

    This part of the correct code is: javascript:(function($){‘use%20strict';var%20n=/^(Ben bur…

    The code copied into my test bookmark: javascript:(function($){%E2%80%98use%20strict';var%20n=/^(Ben%20bur…

    The bold has come from nowhere in place of the ‘ character. Maybe you will have better luck.

    I suggest that if your bookmark is inoperative, that you make the corrections to your bookmark from the code in the post. I know, it is a drag. Would it be better to search this site for all of Milhous’ comments to find where he provides his link?

    Anway, I tried. I failed.

    felipe (023cc9)

  185. From this perspective, one can see why a certain very large gentleman made it his choice for a final stand… https://twitter.com/HistoryToLearn/status/900190980619460609/photo/1

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  186. And it now appears his administration actively spied on the Trump campaign, unmasking monitored conversations involving Trump associates.”

    Repeating things over and over doesn’t make them true.

    Davethulhu (3a2442)

  187. hrm

    and so we come to the matter of Peter Schiff

    That’s what’s really bothering me about Trump is the hypocrisy, because when Trump was a candidate and he got elected because by and large he told the truth about the phony nature of the recovery. Obama was out there talking about how great things were, and Trump was like BS, it’s not that great.”

    True enough I suppose, and I’ve always felt Mr. Schiff is one of our more reasoned and helpful voices, particularly when addressing economic issues.

    But I think if we were to examine this issue of “hypocrisy” more closely, we’re liable to find the most glaring examples to be those evidenced in a comparison of how the CNN Jake Tapper fake news propaganda slut media used to discuss the food stamp economy, with how they discuss the recovery, such as it is, since President Trump was elected.

    I was struck just this morning by the barely-restrained glee with which propaganda slut Devin Henry constructs a narrative centering on the economic effects pertaining to the aftermath of the recent hurricane in Texas.

    But the credibility Devin Henry’s breathless poopy-twaddle suffers greatly in context of the steps we know the administration has taken to mitigate Harvey’s impact. Steps any description of which which Mr. Henry wholly fails to include in his panicked screed. I include a bit more detail below than strictly required to make my point, and this is for the benefit of Mr. DCSCA (particularly the part in bold).

    After yesterday’s RBOB gasoline futures expiration blowout, the Trump Administration is pulling out all the stops to try to reduce shortages of gasoline and try to calm down soaring prices. Driven by massive refinery outages and fears of deliverable supply, gas was on high octane. The September RBOB gasoline futures surged at one point higher by more than 28 cents a gallon, driving the wholesale price of gasoline to the highest level in over two years.

    Retail prices also hit a new high for the year according to triple A and you can expect more price increases, if not spikes, coming at the pump. A release from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve and a temporary waiver of gasoline specifications should take away some gasoline upward price pressure.

    The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency on Wednesday granted a waiver on low-volatility conventional gasoline requirements to 12 more states in response to fuel-shortage concerns. The decision opens the door for expanded E15 sales through Sept. 15 in some areas. Still, despite the waiver from the government, deliveries against the expiring RBOB futures contract will get no such waiver. Worries by traders about the amount of deliverable gasoline added to yesterday’s massive RBOB run.

    In a press release, the CME Group said, “the Exchange has determined that the EPA waiver will NOT apply to September 2017 gasoline deliveries against the RBOB Gasoline Futures contract, based upon the timing of the EPA waiver, which was issued late in the trading day during the expiration of the September RBOB Gasoline Futures contract, as well as our assessment of the current state of the marketplace in Exchange-approved terminals in New York Harbor.”

    So, given the tendentiousness of the CNN Jake Tapper fake news propaganda slut media, to what extent are we to perceive “hypocrisy” when President Trump offers a counter-narrative?

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  188. yikes

    that should read as follows:

    But the credibility *of* Devin Henry’s breathless poopy-twaddle

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  189. there has been some marginal improvement,

    https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t15.htm

    the hill is more absorbent than most fishwrap.

    narciso (d1f714)

  190. 🦑 tastic!!!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  191. henry, seems to regard oil as the black blood of the earth,

    ://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/348887-fossil-fuel-officials-take-key-spots-on-new-interior-royalties

    narciso (d1f714)

  192. Repeating things over and over doesn’t make them true.
    Davethulhu (3a2442) — 9/4/2017 @ 12:25 pm

    Nor does repeating “Repeating things over and over doesn’t make them true” make them false.

    Rev.Hoagie® (630eca)

  193. @92: “I chose option A.”

    Who the hell talks like that, anyway. Oh. Right. Your first wife back in ’75 who’d lecture you about the joy and comfort of Earth Shoes then badger you to take out the trash in the middle of the 4th quarter of Monday Night Football as Cosell bantered with Meredith over the slow-mo replay of pom-pom action by the Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders. That’s who.
    ____

    @170. No surprise from a clean, preened bird of similar feather. It’s essentially end stage rationalization from the losing end of the ideological stick: denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  194. Patrick, I have sent you an email with Milhouse’s code attached.

    Everybody, I’ve sent the code to our host who may, or may not, find a way to provide it to you.

    felipe (023cc9)

  195. well then

    more and more evidence accrues seemingly by the day that placing vapid weirdos fresh out of the seedy US military – besotted as they are with social justice – into civilian positions of power and authority is most unwise

    but then there’s Tom Cotton, who’s come a long way since his silly letter-to-Iran days

    every sentiment expressed in the linked piece does much credit to Senator Cotton

    good for him

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  196. to be sure i’m going by memory

    i fear revisiting those dark times would be grievously triggering for me, and all the best therapy pups are in houston just now

    I presented evidence of Milo’s statements about young boys. I do not recall calling for him to have no platform to speak anywhere. If some college group wants to invite the guy, let him speak and let there be no violence or threats of violence.

    I do recall asking whether an organization like CPAC should consider him to be someone who represents conservative values and should be given a prominent platform there. Here is my post presenting the evidence, and here is my quote:

    Make up your own mind about whether Milo Yiannopoulos appears to advocate older men having sexual relationships with boys as young as 13.

    And if it appears that he does, you must decide whether that is an opinion that you want representing you as a conservative.

    What that has to do with this post, I have no idea.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  197. @202… says the embittered old bird who – far from Stepney or Knightsbridge – gets his kicks watching old TCM films and dreams of Melania Trump walking the tarmac.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  198. Trump’s Rumored DACA Abolition Is the Right Thing to Do and the Right Way to Do It. Well said, counselor.

    This has always been a job for Congress. Obama had this right before deciding to whip out his feel-good pen and leave this for others to clean up.

    crazy (11d38b)

  199. had sasse, said anything of consequence, re lopez, or a host of others
    https://www.caracaschronicles.com/2017/09/04/when-i-stretched-my-arms-i-could-touch-two-opposite-walls/

    narciso (d1f714)

  200. Nor does repeating “Repeating things over and over doesn’t make them true” make them false.

    Interesting, where else have I used that turn of phrase?

    If you believed, actually believed, that the entire United States intelligence community was co-opted by shadowy forces intent on overthrowing an elected President, would your only response be to complain on internet forums? “Obama wiretapped Trump” is wingnut virtue signalling.

    Davethulhu (3a2442)

  201. i gave it some thought and i feel that a relitigation this matter can only compound the harms already suffered by our friend Milo Yippernipulous

    i apologize for being unfair to you Mr. Patterico – clearly, when my broad-brush allegation is set against the carefully-worded posts you and Dana wrote on this subject, that my allegation can only be said to be overstated

    I’m left to wonder though, how very much different would your posts have been constructed if you *had* intended to participate in sleazy Evan McMullin’s vicious no-platforming campaign

    as for what it has to do with this post I shall leave that for others to adjudge

    but as for me, my recollections of these previous discussions, imperfect as they may be, certainly do inform how I read this post

    (it was an alarming development, owing primarily to the viciousness with which Evan McMullin prosecuted his campaign, and one that lingers yet in the back of my mind, for it then when I myself realized just how dangerous and fraught these years have become – particularly for individuals what have something controversial to voice)

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  202. @206. =Haiki!= Gesundheit!

    She’s a natural walking the runways, too.

    “Don’t hate me because I’m beautiful.” Pantene ad, 1987

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I45-zWJtvfM

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  203. forgive me

    i should have set down the following:

    for it *was* then when I myself realized

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  204. For example look at comment #58 by Dave. It would make as much sense if we replaced “Hillary” with Trump. Would he then vote for Trump?

    As usual, you miss the point. I didn’t vote for either of the two major party nominees I deemed unfit in 2016. Nothing could have persuaded me to vote for either of them, regardless of who their opponent was.

    But Trump’s apologists claim that no matter how badly he disgraces this country, and himself, it’s all OK because he’s not Hillary Clinton.

    Given that some of you are OK with Trump, it seems reasonable to ask what other unsavory types might be acceptable in the “not Hillary” category.

    All the hypothetical candidates I listed were chosen because share (to a greater or lesser extent) Trump’s flaws:

    Bigotry (David Duke)
    Ignorance (Charlie Sheen)
    Advocacy of political violence (Terry Nichols)
    Sexual predation on the weak/young (Jerry Sandusky)
    Fraud and corruption (Bernie Madoff)

    And they also (to Trump apologists) share one of his alleged virtues: not being Hillary Clinton.

    Dave (445e97)

  205. The point Milo was being showcased for his views on gamergate which segued into the real life arcade of the pulse night club which showcased the willfully blindness exhibited by future mayor of the capitol ofvthr resistAnce Michael signerm

    narciso (2d0a15)

  206. I’m a go for a walk and think on something I been puzzling over

    is there merit in the aftermath of a widespread disaster such as we’ve seen with Harvey

    if a pikachu were to say

    ok

    those poor people their pantries are a ruin and millions of tons of refrigerated food is lost

    and so as i say, is there merit in this case

    would it be helpful

    if a pikachu in say Illinois were to resolve to forego a few trips to the grocery store and make do with what he’s set away

    or is that an overly-precious sentiment ignorant of the scale of the US economy and of the manner in which such goods are distributed

    I’m inclined to the latter, but i really don’t know

    i suppose it would be an executive at the Kroger Co or at dirty white supremacist Walmart that could speak to this most authoritatively, though it may not be in their own best interest to do so

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  207. That’s bad faith in the extreme. Accusing me of preferring Hillary and wanting her to win is a deliberate misreading, not just of my post, but of everything I have said on this blog for well over a year.

    I don’t talk to people who argue in bad faith. There’s no reason to do it. All it does it make me angry while achieving nothing. So I won’t do it.

    Consequently, I am putting you in the “do not respond to this person any longer” category unless you give me a damned good reason to take you out.

    Sad!

    Patterico (115b1f) — 9/4/2017 @ 11:32 am

    Except that I explicitly stated what the point of my comment was in the same post that you just cherry picked from after staying that others were doing the same to you.

    My remarks were just meant as a general “bah, humbug” to the entire premise. I don’t care when lefties like Dave, ASPCA, Burnie and the rest rant about Trump because they’re lefties. He could create full employment and they’d complain that government personnel were losing work from the lack of unemployment claims. It is what it is.

    But you are better than that. When you focus on specific policies or debates your writing is so strong. But when you talk about Trump, it’s constantly personal. Like your cheap shot about his wife.

    I remember you giving the benefit of the doubt to Obama over and over even though we all knew he was a dyed in the wool Stalinist. You’ve never done the same for Trump and I understand why. He’s been in the public eye much longer and has a messier public persona. But you still never took cheap shots at Obama that you take at Trump.

    Like your last post on his lack of “deal-making.” You cannot make deals when your own party refuses to support the platforms they ran on. They are liars and cheats who tell their voters one thing, then vote for the exact opposite. But you blame Trump for these actions instead of holding the individuals who are betraying their own promises.

    Carry on.

    NJRob (7f4bec) — 9/4/2017 @ 7:23 am

    What do you disagree with in my post and how can you claim I singled you out when I explicitly stated that the remark was a generalized comment about the tenor of those that post and comment here.

    But it is your blog and you choose to respond to others as you see fit. I respect that and follow the same policy. I’ve avoided directly responding to Dustin since our dustup a few months ago. Fences/neighbors and such.

    NJRob (89e97f)

  208. Nobody made a mistake by not voting for Trump — unless they ACTUALLY voted for Hillary.

    It takes no effort whatsoever to find fault with someone that wears certain faults as a badge of honor.

    Icy (d8e186)

  209. I have always said — always — that I fully understood why someone would vote Trump in a general election against Hillary Clinton. (If you voted for him in the primaries, that’s a different discussion entirely.) I’ve never criticized a general election vote for Trump. I’ve never criticized the people who cast that vote.

    i would suggest it was every bit as reasonable if people were to have cast a vote for President Trump during the primaries

    he was the one who most evinced a willingness to fight

    and compounded that virtue by evincing a willingness to fight for the issues that were most important and top-of-mind for Republican voters

    the context of course is important

    and the previous two nominees provide that context – Mitt Romney and John McCain – these were passive timid cow-like creatures what could not rouse themselves on behalf of voters on very much at all

    and so it came to pass, that towards the end of the nominating process

    people were faced with a choice between the spirited Mr. Trump, the execrably dishonest obamacare-loving weenie John Kasich, or the increasingly bizarre Ted Cruz who barreled into Indiana screeching about bathroom trannies with Carly Pupperoni in tow bwapping about MOAR BOATS and gesticulating wildly towards wiggly jiggly fetuses left on a table what existed only in her mind

    it was all a bit much taken altogether, and to look at these three and come away with a preference for the refreshing Mr. Trump

    i can find nothing unreasonable about such a decision

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  210. @196. =sigh= There’s plenty of product Mr. Feet; America is awash w/gasoline. SPR release minimal & waiver a standard precaution; chiefly a PR ‘government at work’ ploy to dampen ‘panic’ but it won’t mean much. Extra tankers were ordered, trafficked, and rerouted coming in w/refined product as well. Distribution is always the key; tanker trucks can’t deliver product in five feet of flood waters to stations awash w/dead electric pumps and possibly contaminated storage tanks underground. But tank farms are flush, pipelines reversed, reopened and repaired if necessary. All’s well ’til Irma comes-a-callin’. Watch that track once she blows through ‘Cuber’ and maybe heads into the Gulf.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  211. Irma will most certainly do us the kindness of not heading into the Gulf.

    Fair play remains a fundamental principle of nature.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  212. But you are better than that. When you focus on specific policies or debates your writing is so strong. But when you talk about Trump, it’s constantly personal. Like your cheap shot about his wife.

    Where did Patterico get the idea that NJRob singled him out? Could it be here?

    DRJ (15874d)

  213. It’s okay that you preferred Hillary and wanted her to win because TRUMP.

    This is a simple and direct question: NJRob: when you said the above, were you addressing me?

    If your response is anything but a definitive “no” then I am done with you.

    If it is a definitive “no” then DRJ has a good question. Why, when I asked you who you were addressing, did you let loose with a barrage of comments directed specifically at me?

    But let’s take the questions one at a time.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  214. It’s also so very amusing to read people in this thread who (i) go on and on about the will of voters (and judgements regarding how they voted) who (ii) did not vote themselves.

    Hmmm. There is a word very near “hypotenuse” in the dictionary that applies.

    But nothing new.

    I honest don’t care how anyone votes. That’s the ticket for carrying on about politics, whether or not I agree with a person. But it is the price for admission. Anything else suggests a pronounced lack of seriousness about issues.

    It’s one of those cosmic questions, sort of like the people who repeatedly put words in Patterico’s mouth. Just ask him. He is happy to clearly state his position. And this business of Person “A” telling everyone what Person “B” means without Person “A”‘s input…well, isn’t that one of the major problems in our weird, weird world at present?

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  215. And this business of Person “A” telling everyone what Person “B” means without Person “A”‘s input… well, isn’t that one of the major problems in our weird, weird world at present?

    no this is not a major problem in the whirl

    major problems are include fed policy, pension tsunami, and chinese-noko nuclear bombs

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  216. Annnnnd…we can tell by the seriousness and care with which you address those topics in a thread Patterico posted about voting.

    You really do stink the place up.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  217. And if you get to call people perverts, and twats, and hoochies…

    Well heck, I get to call you a troll.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  218. This is a simple and direct question: NJRob: when you said the above, were you addressing me?

    If your response is anything but a definitive “no” then I am done with you.

    If it is a definitive “no” then DRJ has a good question. Why, when I asked you who you were addressing, did you let loose with a barrage of comments directed specifically at me?

    But let’s take the questions one at a time.

    Patterico (115b1f) — 9/4/2017 @ 2:28 pm

    No.

    NJRob (89e97f)

  219. my goodness

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  220. Giuliani pre-bulging hematoma would have been the ruthless racebaiting VP either McCain or Romney needed. Romney got waylaid by a 1 -2 punch possum playing young black voters and mormo skeptic evangelicals.

    urbanleftbehind (e8118a)

  221. plus he was unable to make anything like a remotely convincing argument about obamacare Mr. leftbehind

    but at least he lied much less about this than did the dishonest and dishonorable Senator McCain

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  222. Hmmm. There is a word very near “hypotenuse” in the dictionary that applies.
    Simon Jester (c8876d) — 9/4/2017 @ 2:44 pm

    Heh.

    felipe (023cc9)

  223. This is a simple and direct question: NJRob: when you said the above, were you addressing me?

    If your response is anything but a definitive “no” then I am done with you.

    If it is a definitive “no” then DRJ has a good question. Why, when I asked you who you were addressing, did you let loose with a barrage of comments directed specifically at me?

    But let’s take the questions one at a time.

    Patterico (115b1f) — 9/4/2017 @ 2:28 pm

    Because I respect you.and find your thoughts and remarks interesting and informative the vast majority of the time.

    It’s your blog so when you choose a topic I direct remarks to you when I’m speaking to you. But in those situations I use your name and a paragraph break.

    I’ve never been one to spam several posts in a row to discuss multiple issues. At most you’ll find 2 in a row with a very rare occasion of 3 when something pops into my head that I forgot to add.

    I do not understand when you post open topics like you did last week with the heading Trump and the line you posted below it, “Nobody cares about anything else.” But that’s your call.

    I think you have a much better base of commenters that could gladly discuss other matters, but a handful of people derail those threads to talk about Trump.

    NJRob (89e97f)

  224. Where did Patterico get the idea that NJRob singled him out? Could it be here?

    DRJ (15874d) — 9/4/2017 @ 2:23 pm

    That was directed at Patterico. But the tenor of the remarks as well as the discussion was vastly different. Make of it what you will.

    NJRob (89e97f)

  225. So who were you addressing when you said that, NJRob?

    Patterico (115b1f)

  226. There is a real chance that everyone can express their point of view here. I hope so. No, I don’t like silly histrionics. But that’s me. I continue to think Patterico’s point in this thread—that criticizing DJT is not the same as criticizing his voters—is solid common ground for everyone.

    I will make it a point to state when I approve of some of DJT’s actions, and grumble about others. Isn’t that where we all should be?

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  227. I think you have a much better base of commenters that could gladly discuss other matters, but a handful of people derail those threads to talk about Trump.
    NJRob (89e97f) — 9/4/2017 @ 3:09 pm

    I think this is the sad truth, but what, freedom of speech and so forth, can be done? It is a very hard thing for our host to ban anyone, due to his very good character. If he can take, can’t we?

    felipe (023cc9)

  228. I know. “Says the guy with the filter.”

    Well, that is what it takes for to remain sane.

    felipe (023cc9)

  229. felipe, if you can get that things working, I’m all over it.

    There is much that is good here.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  230. I blame Trump voters. The primary voters. Drove right past the showroom with the Cadillacs and Buicks, and went to the gypsy car lot and picked a ’73 Pinto as our option versus the Democrat ’66 VW Minibus. But that’s water under the bridge now.

    nk (dbc370)

  231. There is much that is good here.
    Simon Jester (c8876d) — 9/4/2017 @ 3:29 pm

    Yes, there is. I have forwarded the code to our Host. It may help, to lobby him, to make it available to his readers.

    felipe (023cc9)

  232. nk, I am only one of those academics you sneer about. But I do know a lot about how those folks think—and the lower income/social class from which I originate.

    I believe you are dead right about the primary system. And I think that Democrats and Republicans can come together on this: it’s broken. Something needs to be done. I’m not smart enough to know what that is.

    I continue to think that folks need a real civics course; the stuff in school at every level serves a particular narrative. And that narrative serves a power structure. Everything else is window dressing.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  233. Felipe is such a good person.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  234. My remarks were just meant as a general “bah, humbug” to the entire premise. I don’t care when lefties like Dave, ASPCA, Burnie and the rest rant about Trump because they’re lefties. He could create full employment and they’d complain that government personnel were losing work from the lack of unemployment claims. It is what it is.

    NJRob (89e97f)

  235. I think this is the sad truth, but what, freedom of speech and so forth, can be done? It is a very hard thing for our host to ban anyone, due to his very good character. If he can take, can’t we?

    felipe (023cc9) — 9/4/2017 @ 3:23 pm

    Yes.

    NJRob (89e97f)

  236. 1. So you think it was supposed to be clear you were referring to Dave etc. from that quote?

    2. What is “the whole premise” of the post? Can you articulate it? Bet you can’t! Bet you read the headline and started commenting right away.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  237. If someone took the time to articulate the “whole premise” of the post, they’d be hard-pressed to criticize it, I think.

    If it’s too difficult, Beldar got it right upthread.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  238. Patterico,

    What do you think is constructive about attacking Trump personally? About calling his wife a paid something.

    I read the entire thread and thought it was patronizing. Not one of your best works. I mentioned in my post that I directed towards you when I think you’re writing is exceptionally strong and that your distaste of the man affects how you write. That’s my opinion and yes it’s colored by the constant vitriol I see expressed in the world at large on a daily basis.

    Have you considered taking a step back, looking at this post in the context of the past several posts and think how the reader will perceive it.

    Your call.

    I look at Trump as a horribly flawed man, but the only chance we have to stop both socialism and globalism from destroying our nation over the next 4 years.

    I’m not going to attack his personal faults as long as he isn’t joining the left in trying to destroy the country. They will do whatever they can through the politics of personal destruction to neutralize Trump and eliminate any possibility of going back to a Republic. I refuse to help them.

    When he makes poor political decisions I’ll join in trying to persuade him to make the right ones. I am very disappointed in him letting General Kelly eliminate some honest voices and forcing them to quit or be fired. I’m not a big fan of waiting another 6 months for DACA to be repealed as that should’ve happened months ago. I think any resolution on DACA must include building a wall, funding it and stopping all illegal immigration including chain migration. But that’s on Congress to create and on the President to say he won’t sign a bill without those terms.

    NJRob (89e97f)

  239. https://theintercept.com/2017/09/04/undercover-in-north-korea-all-paths-lead-to-catastrophe/

    SK: It’s interesting to be analyzing North Korea in this period of time in America because there are a lot of similarities. Look at Trump’s non-stop tweeting about “fake news” and how great he is. That’s very familiar, that’s what North Korea does. It’s just endless propaganda. All these buildings with all these slogans shouting at you all the time, constantly talking about how the enemies are lying all the time.

    Those catchy one liners, how many words are there in a tweet? It’s very similar to those [North Korean] slogans.

    This country right now, where you’re no longer able to tell what’s true or what’s a lie, starting from the top, that’s North Korea’s biggest problem. America should really look at that, there’s a lesson.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  240. Again, NJRob.

    What is “the whole premise” of the post? Can you articulate it?

    Patterico (115b1f)

  241. Kevin D. Williamson:

    Trump wrote of the third lady that he chose her because he wanted to be able to enter a room with her and make other men envious — to see “grown men weep” — a very strange admission that his satisfaction in his marriage rests neither with himself nor with his wife but with third parties who might ogle her. (His cuckoldry-obsessed fans must surely have noted this.) But envious of what? Asked during a public appearance whether she’d have married Trump if he weren’t rich, she answered: “If I weren’t beautiful, do you think he’d be with me?” There is a certain clarity in that, one of a very familiar sort.

    Indeed.

    As I said, there is a word for what she is. That’s not a cheap shot. It’s a factual observation.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  242. two words actually

    “first lady”

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  243. I mentioned in my post that I directed towards you when I think you’re writing is exceptionally strong and that your distaste of the man affects how you write.

    I think your love for Trump affects how you write.

    Does that sound insulting? Gee. How about that. My mirroring your comment to me sounds insulting. Why, that almost could mean . . . what?

    What is “the whole premise” of the post? Can you articulate it?

    Patterico (115b1f)

  244. “first lady”

    Nah, “first lady” does not rhyme with “door.”

    Hint: it’s one of your favorite words, happybigot. I think it’s moderated, actually, because we are too nice to say it here.

    Our restraint doesn’t change what she is. We all know it.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  245. i’m not a bigot i love all god’s children except for trannies and people with garish tattoos and creepy losers what went to harvard and also Jennifer Lawrence has been getting on my nerves lately

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  246. It was intended explicitly as an olive branch of sorts.

    ‘Acceptance’… of sorts.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  247. I know o prefer Amy Adams, I haven’t seen passengers OT the last hunger games on general principlale

    narciso (d1f714)

  248. Melanoma is a less odious version of Mnuchins squeeze.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  249. As I said, there is a word for what she is. That’s not a cheap shot. It’s a factual observation.

    Indeed. Maybe a word – or two.

    “Cheap and vulgar!” – Carol King [Joan Blondell] ‘Gold Diggers of 1933′ – 1933

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  250. I must have missed the monebt when turbo tax geithner or lunch box less wife was fair game.

    http://www.imdb.com/name/www.imdb.com/name/nm2325602

    narciso (d1f714)

  251. @257. Ben, some trophies have a lot of brass.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  252. NJRob:

    I’m not going to attack his personal faults as long as he isn’t joining the left in trying to destroy the country.

    That’s an interesting way to put it. if he does something you don’t like, does that mean personal attacks are fine? IOW would you support Patterico’s rhetoric if you thought Trump was hurting the country?

    DRJ (15874d)

  253. @251. Uh, no Mr. Feet. Actually she’s Third Lady.

    But still a pleasure to watch her comings-and-goings boarding AF1.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  254. yes yes the last hunger games is on my netflix but i think i’m just kinda done there

    she’s not a good person

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  255. @251. Uh, no Mr. Feet. Actually she’s Third Lady.

    the point is there’s simply no way – not without boldly striding into the forbidding realm of the ahistorical – that Melania Trump can be said to be morally inferior to any of the trashy broads what have held the office before her

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  256. I must have missed the monebt when turbo tax geithner or lunch box less wife was fair game.

    If someone is going to forthrightly acknowledge that they sleep with a man (or perhaps merely sleep in his general vicinity) for money, you … can admire the honesty, I guess. But there’s not much else there to admire.

    I keep coming back to what I would teach my kids. By now they know enough on their own to know what such a person is.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  257. Melanoma is a less odious version of Mnuchins squeeze.

    Mnuchin and Scaramucci both scraped the bottom of the trophy hooch barrel

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  258. As long as she doesn’t go urinary..

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  259. the point is there’s simply no way – not without boldly striding into the forbidding realm of the ahistorical – that Melania Trump can be said to be morally inferior to any of the trashy broads what have held the office before her

    She’s morally inferior to virtually every woman I personally know. As for other First Ladies, I don’t know. Perhaps they have all admitted trading sex with their husbands, or the illusion that they have sex with their husbands, for money. I honestly don’t know, even if I tend to doubt it.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  260. If someone is going to forthrightly acknowledge that they sleep with a man (or perhaps merely sleep in his general vicinity) for money, you … can admire the honesty, I guess. But there’s not much else there to admire.

    Entrepreneurism! Free enterprise! Capitalism! 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  261. But we’re distracting NJRob from articulating, in his own words, the thesis of this post.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  262. Melanoma is just the beard for Ivanka.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  263. oopers i need to qualify i love people with garish tattoos if they’re my relatives

    that’s just different plus a lot of their tattoos are jesus-related so what can you really say

    i just make pretend i was born into a Lutheran biker gang

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  264. @266. Mr. Feet! Trophies are made of brass for a reason- it’s cheap and malleable.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  265. Patterico, I think that this takes us all back to the failure of the primary process. I know plenty of far Lefties that hate Trump and HRC equally….the latter because her working the system “stole” their candidate’s chances.

    Now, the concept of a Sanders Presidency makes me shake my head, but that is what they wanted.

    Perhaps, if we could find a way to fix the system, we could avoid the two individuals that ran against each other for the Presidency.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  266. Entrepreneurism! Free enterprise! Capitalism!

    Yeah, it’s kind of like addressing the issue of her blatant and undeniable plagiarism by praising her eye for a good passage.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  267. And Patterico? If there is a way to apply that filter that Milhouse wrote, it would make a lot of folks happy.

    So to speak.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  268. Perhaps, if we could find a way to fix the system, we could avoid the two individuals that ran against each other for the Presidency.

    Instant-runoff voting for crowded primary fields.

    If this election didn’t cause that concept to become instantly popular, it never will be.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  269. And Patterico? If there is a way to apply that filter that Milhouse wrote, it would make a lot of folks happy.

    So to speak.

    I can’t figure it out. I have talked to my tech guy about it before but it never went anywhere.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  270. ‘Gold Diggers of 1933′

    What a great film. Pre-code Hollywood at its sauciest.

    And Joan Blondell puts Mail-Order-Melania to shame…

    Dave (445e97)

  271. If I could block enough people I could be alone with my thoughts, so precious..

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  272. Again, NJRob.

    What is “the whole premise” of the post? Can you articulate it?

    Patterico (115b1f) — 9/4/2017 @ 5:04 pm

    The premise of the post is that your criticism of Trump is of Trump, not of his voters or his supporters. You understand why people voted the way they did even though you made a different choice. You expect people to understand that your critiques of Trump are of him and have no bearing on those who support him.

    NJRob (7f4bec)

  273. No snark button?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  274. NJRob:
    I’m not going to attack his personal faults as long as he isn’t joining the left in trying to destroy the country.
    That’s an interesting way to put it. if he does something you don’t like, does that mean personal attacks are fine? IOW would you support Patterico’s rhetoric if you thought Trump was hurting the country?

    DRJ (15874d) — 9/4/2017 @ 5:42 pm

    Honestly,

    yes.

    Because the left has no compunction about getting personal and using the politics of personal destruction. I didn’t make the rules, but I will use them.

    And yes, you could use the quote about the devil and tearing down every law to stop him.

    NJRob (7f4bec)

  275. But we’re distracting NJRob from articulating, in his own words, the thesis of this post.

    Patterico (115b1f) — 9/4/2017 @ 5:49 pm

    I’ve answered every question you’ve posted towards me.

    NJRob (7f4bec)

  276. But we’re distracting NJRob from articulating, in his own words, the thesis of this post.

    Patterico (115b1f) — 9/4/2017 @ 5:49 pm

    I was on the road. Didn’t see that you made several requests. As you can see, I’m on my computer now and not my cell phone.

    NJRob (7f4bec)

  277. @279- Footlight Parade had some juice to it, too. Still does: Blondell, Cagney, Keeler and Powell.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  278. @271. Family values: Mr. Reagan called his second wife, ‘Mommie.’ Mr. Trump calls his first daughter a ‘hottie.’ 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  279. It’s creepy creep stuff for paperback porn…no joke DC.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  280. If nothing else, Patterico, you got happyfeet to say something nice about a woman. I think it’s a first.

    nk (dbc370)

  281. Melania’s so good i like how she seemingly floats above it all so gracefully

    she’s got a true strength to her, and she’s embraced her outlandish new circumstances with courage and determination

    but all the while keeping sight of her duties – most importantly as a mom but also as a companionable wife

    she seems to have her sights set on a far horizon visible clearly only to her

    it’s quite lovely

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  282. Whatever became of Ivana?

    Does she still have the restraining order?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  283. “she’s got a true strength to her..”

    She’s from the Balkans, right?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  284. @291. She wrote a book or two.

    One titled, “Free To Love.”

    No kidding.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  285. the point is there’s simply no way – not without boldly striding into the forbidding realm of the ahistorical – that Melania Trump can be said to be morally inferior to any of the trashy broads what have held the office before her

    Normally I ignore your verbal diarrhea, but I’ll engage with you on this one. What specific moral failings would you attribute to either of the previous first ladies: Laura Bush and Michelle Obama. Both are apparently devoted to their husbands, and are each others first and only spouses.

    Davethulhu (3a2442)

  286. Late last night I watched Jackie, starring Natalie Portman in the title role, which was released last December and is now on premium cable channels. I’m a fan of Portman’s acting in general, and she was particularly well cast for this film. Billy Crudup played “The Journalist” and the late John Hurt (in one of his final performances) played “The Priest” — both fictional/composite characters used as plot devices to prompt her many flashbacks. The film focused mostly on the time between JFK’s assassination and funeral in late November 1963, with another heavy concentration on her February 1962 televised tour of the just-redecorated White House. Unlike most films about the Kennedys, this one was not a complete whitewash, not a hagiography of either JFK or Mrs. Kennedy. Rather, it portrayed Mrs. Kennedy as having a broad and deep stripe of hypocrisy and manipulativeness — an keen and ironic awareness of the play-acting that both she and her husband were constantly engaged in, and a fierce determination to manipulate the reporting about them to ensure the consistency of the “Camelot” narrative — that I was quite surprised to see, but that I suspect is pretty close to the historic truth.

    This dialog from the film seems relevant, perhaps, to the discussion on this post about Mrs. Trump, whom I think may reasonably be described as a “gold-digger,” but whom I have no inclination to label with any more pejorative terms:

    Jackie Kennedy: Jack and I hardly ever spent the night together. Not even that last night in Fort Worth.

    The Priest: Your husband loved you, Mrs. Kennedy. I’m sure of it.

    Jackie Kennedy: I seem to remember there being more to our vows. Don’t look at me like that. I was first lady of the United States, women have endured far worse for far less. There are two kinds of women. Those who want power in the world, and those who want power in bed. Of course, now what am I left with? When men see me now, what do you think they feel?

    The Priest: Sadness. Compassion. Desire, maybe. You’re still a young woman, Mrs. Kennedy.

    Jackie Kennedy: I used to make them smile.

    The quote presumes that all women want one sort of power or the other, or perhaps both, and I don’t think that’s fair. Nor do I think that premise accurately describes very many of our First Ladies. Barbara Bush and Laura Bush surely demanded and got fidelity from their spouses, so perhaps the had “power in bed,” but I honestly don’t think either of them perceived themselves as thirsting for “power.” However, Hillary Clinton, at the farthest extreme end of the spectrum, quite obviously had zero power in bed but desperately thirsted for power in the world, and at various times wielded quite a bit. As for Mrs. Trump, I suspect she would be entirely content simply to be Trump’s last wife; she’s clearly got the age and health advantages going for her, but then there are those precedents that must be quite worrying, Trump having “fired” so many wives and girlfriends before her.

    I don’t have much fault to find with Mrs. Trump, and the small faults I could mention are very subjective matters of taste and style that I don’t find worth mentioning. They’re counterbalanced to some considerable degree by other matters of taste and style of which I do approve. She’s clearly been an asset to Trump in his foreign travels, for example, in exactly the same manner that Jackie Kennedy was to JFK.

    In general, I think there’s not much upside in criticizing First Ladies or other spouses or family members of politicians unless and until, like Hillary, they cross the line from being a spouse or family member into being an actor, a principal in the political arena, on their own behalves, to a degree beyond dutiful public support.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  287. Oh, Davethulhu: I’m sorry for the bizarre moments in your future after you wrote the above.

    You are not wrong, of course. But here the nonsense comes.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  288. @288. Or a season of ‘Dallas’… we do love to hate our JR Ewings.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  289. Beldar, that was a really wonderful comment. Thank you. THAT is why the comments section here can be valuable.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  290. Our other choice for First Lady was Bill Clinton. I usually deride the “binary election” meme, but some thoughts just cannot be avoided.

    nk (dbc370)

  291. #295, Beldar, thanks for the timely and thoughtful comment.

    ropelight (db9e35)

  292. I beat up Melania enough before the election. Called her Ginger McKenna and said she wasn’t fit to be within a mile of the White House. But then I saw her at the inauguration and I was very impressed. And she sealed the deal when, after the inauguration, she stayed in Manhattan which is around 200 miles away from the White House. So I’ve relented. I never could be mean to a woman for very long, anyway.

    nk (dbc370)

  293. you don’t get to be first lady of the united states without making more than a passing acquaintance with the perverse and obscene

    clean hands?

    not a one of them

    murder cocaine bulimia alcohol shoplifting adultery and astrology

    it is this sea of iniquity a first lady must navigate

    some manage this with grace and courage (melania)

    others struggle, and grow cold and bitter (laura bush, pat nixon)

    but all of them are dangerous

    they draw upon the mystery and the power what attend this dark sisterhood

    and they work their evil magicks without mercy or remorse

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  294. Re downsides of criticizing politicians’ spouses: I’m discussion only rational people of reasonably good faith here. There is a small sample of the public so filled with hatefulness and pus, so devoid of decency, that they applauded, for example, Donald Trump’s tweet comparing his wife’s looks to Ted Cruz’. Unfortunately, one of those people is the single most frequent commenter on this blog, hence my hope for a working script to filter out selected commenters.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  295. Memo to Trump:

    Dolly Madison Ice Cream.

    Yum!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  296. Beldar, I suspect we will need a GoFundMe or KickStarter to get that taken care of.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  297. Oh, Davethulhu: I’m sorry for the bizarre moments in your future after you wrote the above.

    You weren’t wrong.

    Davethulhu (3a2442)

  298. It’s not a good feeling when pieces of your yute keep falling away… https://youtu.be/GD_DyoB4Cjs

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  299. @300. …thanks for the timely and thoughtful comment.

    Indeed Roper! Great to know, hot showers, warm food, power and cable TV are up and running in Houston… isn’t it.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  300. Dave, I have no answers. I just hope the comments section doesn’t end up like this.

    https://youtu.be/33zPlnhymCU

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  301. @302. murder cocaine bulimia alcohol shoplifting adultery and astrology…

    Not to mention touring Pacific battlefield hospitals, graves and… and U.S. coal mines, Mr. Feet!

    “Hello, this is Eleanor Roosevelt!” – Miles Kendig [Walter Matthau] ‘Hopscotch’ 1980

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  302. How has sally Quinn having been a practicing witch, not enter into this. Its like i don’t know you people anymore.

    narciso (d1f714)

  303. Simon Jester (c8876d) — 9/4/2017 @ 6:45 pm

    That. Was. Funny! Thanks, SJ.

    felipe (023cc9)

  304. @311. ??? Musta missed the bewitching Ms. Quinn at President Bradlee’s inauguration.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  305. Thank you Beldar for your timely comments.

    NJRob (7f4bec)

  306. Reputedly her fist vuxtim was a jealous rival, the second her for boss clay felker

    narciso (d1f714)

  307. Must be a new thing. There was Ed Debevic’s rock and roll diner where the staff made a point of sassing the cusotmers but then they’d all break out in song and dance routines out of the blue, too. Fun place. It was table service. We’d tell the servers, “You’re being too nice, we’re not leaving you a big tip”.

    If Weiners Circle is what has replaced it, it only illustrates the deterioration of culture under the Millennials.

    nk (dbc370)

  308. Footlight Parade had some juice to it, too.

    Does it have a tight close-up of a 21-year old Ginger Rogers singing a verse of We’re in the Money in pig-Latin?

    No?

    Well, thanks for playing…

    Dave (445e97)

  309. @317. Blondell pix you posted ain’t Ginger, either. No? Thanks for playing.

    Do catch ‘Shanghai Lil’ and ‘Honeymoon Hotel’ in Footlight Parade… makes GD of ’33 blush with envy.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  310. BTW, narciso, I gave Robert Goldsborough’s Nero Wolfe another chance. “Murder in E Minor” is not bad at all. And in reading the Stout books, I saw how much Stout’s style had also changed between 1935 and 1975. But the main reason is that I finished all the Stout books. 😉

    nk (dbc370)

  311. I love Stout’s Nero Wolfe but I haven’t read the Goldsborough versions.

    DRJ (15874d)

  312. “Re downsides of criticizing politicians’ spouses: I’m discussion only rational people of reasonably good faith here. There is a small sample of the public so filled with hatefulness and pus, so devoid of decency, that they applauded, for example, Donald Trump’s tweet comparing his wife’s looks to Ted Cruz’.”

    I applaud that mainly for the fact that Donald Trump himself did the retweet, rather than simply relying on under-the-table paid hit jobs on things like her nude photo shoots in private and insinuations in public.

    Ted’s a big boy lawyer and knows when to lie and when to comply. But even a master debater can’t argue his way out of brute realities like:

    ‘I became wildly successful in the private sector and attracted all sorts of beautiful women, you did the Washington thing and there wouldn’t have been a chance in hell of you beating Hillary in a conventional matchup, and even if you won, you would have gone Ryan-lite establishment as soon as you had to begin governing, so don’t you even DARE try to argue and quibble your way past me!’

    SEE ALSO: Mike Pence vs. Tim Kaine for the a boring but much starker expression of the accomplished man versus the PARADE OF NASALLY-VOICED, POORLY-SOURCED ASSERTIONS DISGUISED AS ARGUMENT.

    Lawyers, who often mastered verbal warfare due to personal deficiencies in other categories, hate having the domain that they mastered prove utterly and completely useless to them…and by a subhuman NON-LAWYER, at that! So much so that they might hold grudges against the people who rhetorically undercut them so thorougly forever, even when everyone else has let go, and moved on to winning.

    Dysphoria Sam (dbb233)

  313. I’ve only read two so far, DRJ. “Archie Meets Nero Wolfe”, which is what the title says — Stout had never written about it — and I liked it very much. I just finished “Murder in E Minor”, which is Goldsborough’s first, and I enjoyed it as much as any of the Stout books.

    Have you seen the HBO series? They’re all available on YouTube. Here’s the pilot.

    nk (dbc370)

  314. Sorry, A&E not HBO.

    nk (dbc370)

  315. Mr burn wrote, well above:

    America isn’t evil, it just needs to actually live by a creed of Christian principles and make this Nation what it was intended. Don’t you want us to reach our potential? Or are you suspicious of such a future?

    I, personally, would love to see such a future, but I suspect that you would not. For our country to “live by a creed of Christian principles” would mean that homosexuality would be outlawed, divorce would be disallowed, bastardy punished, indolence rewarded with hunger, Islam prohibited, abortion prohibited, and just a whole host of things our good friends on the left would find appalling.

    Pater noster, qui es in caelis, sanctificetur nomen tuum. Adveniat regnum tuum. Fiat voluntas tua, sicut in caelo et in terra. Panem nostrum quotidianum da nobis hodie, et dimitte nobis debita nostra sicut et nos dimittimus debitoribus nostris. Et ne nos inducas in tentationem, sed libera nos a malo. Amen.

    The Catholic Dana (f1c5f8)

  316. … well at least it’s not Gary Johnson or Jill Stein

    Neo (d1c681)

  317. Mr Finkelman wrote, well above:

    I’m still not ashamed that I voted for Evan McMullin, although his turn from being a promoter of conservatism to attacking Trump for anything and everything has soured me on repeating that vote in the future.

    This same sort of situation could happen again, but Evan McMullin himself is not likely to be on the ballot again. He turned out to be worse than thought.

    I don’t know if my write-in vote in New York was even counted.

    New York tabulated 176,598 votes for Gary Johnson, 107,934 for Jill Stein, 10,373 write-in votes for Evan McMullin, and 50,890 votes listed as write-ins and ‘others’. But, in the real world, only those votes for Hillary Clinton counted in the Empire State, since she won all 29 electoral votes. Realistically, the only people whose votes counted are those people who voted for Donald Trump, in the states that Mr Trump carried.

    I was hardly thrilled by Gary Johnson, but he was on the ballot in Pennsylvania, and this I knew my vote would be tabulated, where a write-in vote for Patrick Frey — a serious consideration, actually — would simply have been listed as “write in,” indistinguishable from a vote for Donald Duck. Plus, a write in vote would have been more difficult to be certified, so I chose not to exercise that option.

    Mr McMuffin having gone off the deep end doesn’t somehow make your vote for him dishonorable.

    The Dana who voted for Gary Johnson (f1c5f8)

  318. Christian principles, not dogma Dana.
    The beatitudes? Golden Rule, love Thy neighbor stuff. You know the hard stuff, not another SHARIA.

    Ben burn (7e5fb8)

  319. Our esteemed host wrote:

    It’s okay that you preferred Hillary and wanted her to win because TRUMP.

    But she didn’t and the nation will go on for another few days as well. Get over it.

    That’s bad faith in the extreme. Accusing me of preferring Hillary and wanting her to win is a deliberate misreading, not just of my post, but of everything I have said on this blog for well over a year.

    I don’t talk to people who argue in bad faith. There’s no reason to do it. All it does it make me angry while achieving nothing. So I won’t do it.

    We knew that you didn’t vote for either major party candidate, but, as our host, and thus the target for so many slings and arrows, perhaps a sidebar-linked article for reference, telling us for whom you did vote — or if you simply didn’t vote in the presidential election — would be something of a blog PSA.

    After all, some of us have not been on this site daily, and there’s a lot that can, and does, get missed.

    The mystified Dana (f1c5f8)

  320. Mr burn shows the typical apostate’s knowledge of Christianity:

    Christian principles, not dogma Dana.
    The beatitudes? Golden Rule, love Thy neighbor stuff. You know the hard stuff, not another SHARIA.

    Do you really need me to cite chapter and verse? I mean, I can, easily, but this one quotation encompasses them all. Matthew Chapter 5:

    17 Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I came not to destroy, but to fulfil.
    18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished.

    The beatitudes? They were part of the Sermon on the Mount, the same sermon from which verses 17 and 18 have come. The prohibition on divorce comes from the sermon, verses 31 and 32.

    Christian principles are the obedience to the laws of God, as clarified by Jesus. The mushy ‘Christians’ and leftists and apostates and agnostics seem to think that Jesus was some sort of Peter Pan, fairy godfather in the sky, but that’s because they are ignorant of what he said, or are too ‘modern’ to take it seriously. Those of us who are serious about our faith, who have done something really radical like actually read the Bible, as in all of the Bible, can readily see the superficiality of those who claim ‘Christian principles’ but who are so very obviously unfamiliar with what those are.

    The Bible scholar Dana (f1c5f8)

  321. Our esteemed host certainly got one thing right:

    Arguments like this are premised on the assumption that the Republican is owed my vote. Therefore, if I do not cast it for the Republican, I have taken something away from him.

    It’s a false premise. Nobody is owed my vote. Trump did not earn it. He had no entitlement to it.

    The Democrats have made the same argument to me, that if I voted for anyone other than Hillary Clinton, I voted, de facto, for Donald Trump. Nope, sorry, but no; I voted for who I voted, I had said, in advance, on my humble site for whom I would vote, and I gave my reasons for voting as I did.

    Quite frankly, I was stunned by the outcome of the election. The last time the Republican candidate carried the Keystone State was 1988, and while the majority of the land mass of Pennsylvania is ‘red,’ the dense urban vote in foul, fetid, fuming, foggy, filthy Philadelphia usually overwhelms the people of better sense. In 2012, Mitt Romney got no votes at all in 57 precincts in Philly. I had assumed that, with the lovely Mrs Clinton leading in all of the polls, and with the Commonwealth’s history, a vote for Mr Trump was going to be the wasted vote. Fortunately for our country, I wasn’t the only one stunned by the outcome of the election.

    The Dana who voted in Pennsylvania (f1c5f8)

  322. You’re welcome. Sometimes if you want things don I have to do them myself.

    The Rev.Hoagie® who voted in Pennsylvania (630eca)

  323. Our honored host wrote:

    Trump wrote of the third lady that he chose her because he wanted to be able to enter a room with her and make other men envious — to see “grown men weep” — a very strange admission that his satisfaction in his marriage rests neither with himself nor with his wife but with third parties who might ogle her. (His cuckoldry-obsessed fans must surely have noted this.) But envious of what? Asked during a public appearance whether she’d have married Trump if he weren’t rich, she answered: “If I weren’t beautiful, do you think he’d be with me?” There is a certain clarity in that, one of a very familiar sort.

    Indeed.

    As I said, there is a word for what she is. That’s not a cheap shot. It’s a factual observation.

    Would I have married my darling bride (of 38 years, 9 months and 17 days) if I hadn’t found her beautiful? That’s part of attraction for anyone! Would she have gone out with me if she hadn’t found at least something there she liked? Kind of doubtful.

    Melania Trump was responding to sarcasm with sarcasm: she was a very successful model, could not have lacked for suitors, and didn’t need Donald Trump’s money. If all she was after was money, and didn’t like Mr Trump, she could have quite easily found someone else with a lot of lucre whom she would have liked more.

    The not horribly ugly Dana (f1c5f8)

  324. As a Republican I agree that nobody is *owed* my vote, your vote or anyone’s vote. That said had Hillary won Pennsylvania she would be flooding America with illegals and moslems as I type. So in reality it was America that was owed your vote against the best possible choice to beat Hillary: Trump.

    You did not let down the Republican Party as they hate Trump. You did not let down your friends and family who deserve better than another eight years of leftist policies. You didn’t even let down all us *deplorables* who are just sick and tired of the same bullsh!t promoted as “conservatives”. You let down the Republic by putting your petty hatreds before stopping possibly the worst person on earth from running and ruining the Best country on earth.

    There are many patriotic ways to serve one’s country. I went to the jungle in Nam and killed people. Not real pleasant but I had to do it. I went into a voting booth and voted for George H. W. Bush, Bob Dole, George Bush, John McCain, Mitt Romney and Donald Trump and none were real pleasant either. But the first five have merely perpetuated the farce of two parties. At least Trump made the leftists cry, burn flags and tear down statues. That’s all America has left. And frankly at my age that’s all the fight I have left in me. I am very close to just saying “screw it” and moving to my home in Bermuda and divesting everything in America.

    Rev.Hoagie® (630eca)

  325. don’t go Mr. Hoagie America needs you

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  326. Exactly, Dana there is a place fir social justice, but that is in the personal sphere,

    narciso (d1f714)

  327. Mr Jester wrote:

    Patterico, I think that this takes us all back to the failure of the primary process.

    Other than the fact the primary process did not produce the nominees you preferred, how was it a failure?

    Hillary Clinton and her allies certainly had their nasty thumbs on the scales in the Democratic primaries, but that didn’t really matter; in the end, the lovely Mrs Clinton got 3 million more primary votes than did a guy who wouldn’t even run as a Democrat for his Senate races.

    There were something like 17 Republican contenders, and Donald Trump beat them all, fair and square. Mr Trump won 44.95% of all of the primary and caucus votes cast, and 41 total contests. Ted Cruz, the second place candidate, received only 7,822,100 votes and won only 11 contests. In Pennsylvania, a late contest where Messrs Cruz and Trump were the only candidates remaining, Mr Trump thumped Mr Cruz, 56.61% to 21.67%. (I voted for Mr Cruz in the primary.) It was a pattern which kept going through the primaries: as fewer candidates remained, Mr Trump’s winning margins increased.

    In both cases, the parties nominated the candidates that the party voters chose! The primary processes didn’t fail in the slightest; the winners were the ones the voters preferred.

    Heck, you could even say that both party primary systems produced the candidate most likely to win: Mrs Clinton won the popular vote, by a substantial margin, and Mr Trump won the election!

    The political scientist Dana (f1c5f8)

  328. Hoagie:

    You did not let down the Republican Party as they hate Trump. You did not let down your friends and family who deserve better than another eight years of leftist policies. You didn’t even let down all us *deplorables* who are just sick and tired of the same bullsh!t promoted as “conservatives”. You let down the Republic by putting your petty hatreds before stopping possibly the worst person on earth from running and ruining the Best country on earth.

    This is a sad comment.

    DRJ (15874d)

  329. Our gracious host wrote:

    Trump wrote of the third lady that he chose her because he wanted to be able to enter a room with her and make other men envious — to see “grown men weep” — a very strange admission that his satisfaction in his marriage rests neither with himself nor with his wife but with third parties who might ogle her. (His cuckoldry-obsessed fans must surely have noted this.) But envious of what? Asked during a public appearance whether she’d have married Trump if he weren’t rich, she answered: “If I weren’t beautiful, do you think he’d be with me?” There is a certain clarity in that, one of a very familiar sort.

    Indeed.

    As I said, there is a word for what she is. That’s not a cheap shot. It’s a factual observation.

    I have to ask: how is this qualitatively different from the ‘credentialed media’ people who attacked Mrs Trump for wearing stilettos as her husband and she were heading for Marine One, en route to Texas?

    The coldly realistic Dana (f1c5f8)

  330. One more time, with the entire comment:

    As a Republican I agree that nobody is *owed* my vote, your vote or anyone’s vote. That said had Hillary won Pennsylvania she would be flooding America with illegals and moslems as I type. So in reality it was America that was owed your vote against the best possible choice to beat Hillary: Trump.

    You did not let down the Republican Party as they hate Trump. You did not let down your friends and family who deserve better than another eight years of leftist policies. You didn’t even let down all us *deplorables* who are just sick and tired of the same bullsh!t promoted as “conservatives”. You let down the Republic by putting your petty hatreds before stopping possibly the worst person on earth from running and ruining the Best country on earth.

    There are many patriotic ways to serve one’s country. I went to the jungle in Nam and killed people. Not real pleasant but I had to do it. I went into a voting booth and voted for George H. W. Bush, Bob Dole, George Bush, John McCain, Mitt Romney and Donald Trump and none were real pleasant either. But the first five have merely perpetuated the farce of two parties. At least Trump made the leftists cry, burn flags and tear down statues. That’s all America has left. And frankly at my age that’s all the fight I have left in me. I am very close to just saying “screw it” and moving to my home in Bermuda and divesting everything in America.

    Rev.Hoagie® (630eca) — 9/5/2017 @ 10:05 am

    DRJ (15874d)

  331. Adjective Dana,

    I think Patterico and the media can point out what people say and wear, just as we can draw our conclusions about those things. What Melania Trump says and wears isn’t a big concern for me but there were times that many here, including me, cared about what Michelle Obama said and what she wore.

    Maybe it’s because modern campaigns aren’t solely about the candidates but also their families. We want to give the First Families their privacy, but the fact is candidates willingly use their families for PR and make them fodder for these discussions. Remember how Trump used Melania for the airplane photos? That was not a way to preserve her privacy.

    DRJ (15874d)

  332. Could’ve cared less what michelle 0bama wore, but her lies were troubling.

    Colonel Haiku (28a3f0)

  333. Stop taking it personally if I criticize Donald Trump.

    SteveD (4d28b8)

  334. ‘Stop taking it personally if I criticize Donald Trump.’

    Hey, at least he’s not Obama.

    SteveD (4d28b8)

  335. “would mean that homosexuality would be outlawed, divorce would be disallowed, bastardy punished, indolence rewarded with hunger, Islam prohibited, abortion prohibited, ”

    Please to cite chapter and verse for my own edumacation not to mention your own

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  336. I have immense respect for the Master…his recent disciples, not so much

    History seems to support the viewpoint considering how churchy types have perverted his teachings.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  337. I’ll start

    James 4:12New International Version (NIV)

    12 There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  338. jesus loves the little children all the children of the whirl they’re so precious in his sight that’s why they call him jesus christ cause of how he loves the children of the whirl

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  339. This is the heart of my critique of the showboat Christians who deliberately pray in public to show how righteous they are.

    They (christians) are superior in attitude and inferior on developing the fruits of the spirit. They engage in social movements to manipulate Caesar’s laws making them like Pharisees and Sadducees. Cites on request. Be very specific.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  340. there’s no such thing as Sadducees

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  341. I can’t believe that Mr burn is stupid enough to ask this:

    “would mean that homosexuality would be outlawed, divorce would be disallowed, bastardy punished, indolence rewarded with hunger, Islam prohibited, abortion prohibited, ”

    Please to cite chapter and verse for my own edumacation not to mention your own

    Laws against homosexual activity: Leviticus 18:22; 20:13 (declaring that the sentence for homosexual conduct is death), 1 Corinthians 6:9-11; 1 Timothy 1:10; Jude 1:7; Romans 1:26-28; Hebrews 13:4.

    Laws against divorce have already been cited, Matthew 5:31-32; Matthew 8:9; Mark 10:2-12; Luke 16:18.

    Laws against illegitimacy: Deuteronomy 20:21-22 and 20:28-29.

    Indolence rewarded with hunger: 2 Thessalonians 3:10.

    Islam prohibited: Exodus 20:3; Deuteronomy 5:7. Islam is not mentioned specifically, as it was an ungodly theology created long after the Bible books were written, but the Bible specifically states that we may have no other gods before the Lord.

    Mr burn, your ‘edumacation’ concerning the Bible and Christianity is really sorely lacking; you ought not post comments which make you look as ignorant as you are.

    The Bible scholar Dana (f1c5f8)

  342. Mt burn wrote:

    I have immense respect for the Master…his recent disciples, not so much

    History seems to support the viewpoint considering how churchy types have perverted his teachings.

    And yet I have cited for you chapter and verse. Perhaps you might consider that you are the one who appears to be ignorant of Jesus’ teachings.

    While there are a few nearly contemporary records outside of the Bible which note that Jesus was an historical person, the Bible is the only record we have of his teachings.

    The very Catholic Dana (f1c5f8)

  343. Re #349, which says, in part: “Cites on request. Be very specific.”

    Don’t hold your breath.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  344. That’s the Law Covenant Dana. Jesus x
    Capped those protocols. He Fulfilled them as he intended. Now Mary Magdalene, the hooker, was not condemned as were the reigning hypocrites. He was really down on your judgemental directives aimed at OYHERS…

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  345. Matthew 7

    21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  346. Because she repented, not apologized a word that means next to nothing.

    narciso (bb1198)

  347. Christians should be more concerned with working out their OWN salvation. They have more than enough to occupy their time.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  348. Should Christians get involved in political movements?

    ‘Live by the sword, die by the sword’

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  349. heh, 6 of the last 7 comments are Ben’s. Let me guess; He’s going on about religion, isn’t he? I bet I could best him (which would not be hard, and thus no source of accomplishment for me) without even reading his comments. Repent, Ben.

    felipe (b5e0f4)

  350. I gotta check the copyright laws. Because a collection of Ben burn’s comments would make a volume titled “Exercises in Fatuity”.

    He’s gonna tell us what the Bible “literally” says and what is “literally” Christian. Ha, ha, ha, ha!

    nk (9651fb)

  351. Felipe: I doubt you have the strength to extinguish a candle.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  352. Nk is a metaphorical Christian? I can see it.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  353. Hee, Hee. Two more comments. Nothing for me to read there. Just turn away, Ben. Save yourself.

    felipe (b5e0f4)

  354. There doesn’t seem metaphorical christianity has much support…now this method has tons..https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_literalism

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  355. Trumps emergence got a lot of help from our shrinking numbers of white entitlement.
    White Christians accounted for 80% of the U.S. population when Jimmy Carter was president; that number had dropped to 54% by 2006, and white Christians now make up only 43% of the U.S. population, as the number of people unaffiliated with any religion has swelled.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  356. Welcome to Ben’s Christian Sciency Reading Room. Not on your reading list before now.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  357. Now watch Dana skate by..

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  358. The Hill

    The letter cites a number of comments Trump has made over the past month about North Korea after the country test-fired intercontinental ballistic missiles and carried out its sixth nuclear test.

    On Sunday, the most recent nuclear test proved to be its most powerful to date. Pyongyang claimed the detonation successfully tested a hydrogen bomb that could be loaded onto an intercontinental ballistic missile.

    After the test, Trump said “we’ll see” when asked whether the United States would attack North Korea.

    Defense Secretary James Mattis also warned Sunday that any threats to the United States or its allies would be met with a “massive military response.”

    In August, Trump threatened to bring “fire and fury” upon North Korea and tweeted that military options were “locked and loaded.”

    In its letter, the ACLU, which said it “does not take a position on whether military force should be used against North Korea,” highlighted the constitutional authority delegated to Congress to declare war, along with quotes from several framers about the congressionasl role in declaring war.

    The group also argued that military action against North Korea would violate international law absent a U.N. Security Council resolution authorizing it.

    “The Congress, as representatives of the American citizenry, has exclusive authority under the Constitution to decide whether the president may use military force,” the letter concluded. “Particularly in the wake of your recent threats of military action against North Korea — with allusions to the possible use of nuclear weapons against another country for the first time since World War II — we urge you to make clear that you will refrain from use of force outside the scope of the Constitution and the law.”

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  359. where were these filthy ACLU pussyhatters when our diseased stinkypig secretary of state joined with captain food stamp and coward-ass sleazy disgrace-to-his-uniform war hero john mccain to rain bombs down on libya i wonder

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  360. Esquire

    In religious ritual, water takes away sins. In crime novels, it conceals them. The Epic of Gilgamesh, an ancient Sumerian text, has an account of a great flood that parallels that of Noah and his ark, except that the Sumerian text is better written.

    The gods–those of the Anunnaki–were weeping with her,

    the gods humbly sat weeping, sobbing with grief(?),

    their lips burning, parched with thirst.

    Six days and seven nights

    came the wind and flood, the storm flattening the land.

    When the seventh day arrived, the storm was pounding,

    the flood was a war–struggling with itself like a woman

    writhing (in labor).

    The sea calmed, fell still, the whirlwind (and) flood stopped up.

    I looked around all day long–quiet had set in

    and all the human beings had turned to clay!

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  361. Mr burn wrote:

    That’s the Law Covenant Dana. Jesus x
    Capped those protocols. He Fulfilled them as he intended. Now Mary Magdalene, the hooker, was not condemned as were the reigning hypocrites. He was really down on your judgemental directives aimed at OYHERS…

    Really? Jesus “capped those protocols?” Nope, ‘fraid not, for he actually defined when he would have fulfilled everything, in Matthew 5:18:

    For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished.

    Have heaven or earth yet passed away?

    Jesus forgave sin, and while the specific forgiveness of Mary of Magdala isn’t documented, we see the lesson in John 8:1-11, and the woman caught in adultery. Jesus forgave her sin, but also commanded her to go and sin no more. He did not say, keep on doing as you have been, and it’ll all be OK.

    Jesus did not free us from the law; he made the law more strict. Not only was adultery still against the law, but simply lusting after someone was equated with the act itself. Not only was murder against the law, but hatred of someone was equated with murder.

    There’s a big difference between what you thing Jesus should have taught and what it is documented that he said.

    The Catholic Dana (f1c5f8)

  362. YOUR EMPHASIS,not Jesus’s, is to highlight what others should be doing whereas Jesus focused on Christians getting THEIR act together. Note the links and scripture supporting my contention that Christians best work out their OWN salvation. Stop preaching as though you are exempt from the Parable of the Talents. Stop browbeating the congregation of man with super righteous bleating and moralizing and think if what He said to Peter when he lopped off an ear.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  363. It isn’t about Trump.

    Until you understand that much, you don’t understand anything, at all. You can’t understand that statement, so we glance at you, with sympathy for your inability to comprehend that simple statement… then, we say, ‘Well, he isn’t Hillary.’ …because, that’s all you *can* understand.

    If you take Trump down, or render him ineffective, we’ll simply use a bigger hammer.

    It was never about Trump.

    Warren Bonesteel (138dd5)

  364. To rnexpe t that Benn would understand theology when he doesn’t get history economics or mathematics is a tail order.

    narciso (d1f714)

  365. I love hammers always looking for a nail.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  366. Burned’s “bible” is Alinsky’s “Rules for Radicals”, although rules for radishes would work just as well

    Colonel Haiku (6724fa)

  367. Try teh decaf, bennie.

    Colonel Haiku (6724fa)

  368. Maybe old testament explains it better

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Judges%2013

    narciso (d1f714)

  369. Relax, don’t do it… if you want to read thru it.

    Colonel Haiku (6724fa)

  370. What the hell — again Maverick!? (though if P. Ryan was a victim, no one would cry):
    http://www.yahoo.com/news/mccain-whitehouse-bipartisan-appeal-scotus-221424007.html

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  371. Warren Bonesteel @380.

    Are you telling us that you work for the Russian government?

    nk (9651fb)

  372. Dana? Are you seeing the Shekinah lamp?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  373. Dana is shy.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  374. Or perhaps Dana simply doesn’t spend all of his days looking for Mr burn’s silliness.

    The Dana who doesn't spend every waking moment on the computer (f1c5f8)


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