Patterico's Pontifications

8/15/2017

When We Told Trump To Be A Uniter And Not A Divider, We Didn’t Mean This

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 9:30 am



Donald Trump has finally fulfilled his role as The Great Unifier . . . in a way. Namely, he has unified Latin America against him, at a time when we need their support against the incipient dictatorship of Nicolás Maduro in Venezuela.

Trump recently said: “We have many options for Venezuela, including a possible military option if necessary.” According to the New York Times, this statement is, if anything, helpful to Maduro — because it has appalled leaders throughout Latin America. Yes, yes, I know, it’s the #FAKENEWS!! New York Times. But they have a lot of quotes from Latin American leaders to back up the assertion.

President Nicolás Maduro of Venezuela had become a pariah among fellow Latin American leaders as his beleaguered country staggered toward dictatorship. But a threat by President Trump to use the American military against Mr. Maduro’s government has united those leaders in a different direction: demanding that the United States keep out of the region’s affairs.

“The possibility of a military intervention shouldn’t even be considered,” Juan Manuel Santos, Colombia’s president, said on Sunday during a visit by Vice President Mike Pence to the region. “America is a continent of peace. It is the land of peace.”

. . . .

The dispute began last Friday when Mr. Trump, speaking with reporters about an escalating standoff over North Korea’s nuclear weapons, suddenly added Venezuela to countries where he said he was considering military intervention.

“We have many options for Venezuela, including a possible military option if necessary,” the president said.

The remark was immediately seen as bolstering Mr. Maduro domestically, where he, like his predecessor, Hugo Chávez, has long warned of United States coup plots and invasions. But it has also left Latin Americans in a difficult position, forced to choose between one country accused of dictatorship and another being called an empire — or to simply condemn both.

Peru, which has taken some of the toughest stands in the region against Venezuela, issued a statement on Saturday condemning possible use of force, and Mexico said the crisis could not be resolved with soldiers. Brazil said renouncing violence was the “basis of democratic cohabitation.”

We’re often told that we should look at what the President has done, not what he has said. (Even that metric is not looking so good for him these days, by the way.) But that’s not how it works with diplomacy. Words matter.

Naturally, being the New York Times, the newspaper overstates the case, and praises Barack Obama for actions that actually deserved condemnation. For example:

Under President Barack Obama, however, Washington aimed to get past the conflicts by building wider consensus over regional disputes. In 2009, after the Honduran military removed the leftist president Manuel Zelaya from power in a midnight coup, the United States joined other countries in trying to broker — albeit unsuccessfully — a deal for his return.

Not mentioned: the fact that Zelaya had violated the constitution of Honduras, and had deliberately flouted an order from the country’s Supreme Court. Also not mentioned: the fact that the members of the military had an arrest warrant for Zelaya issued by that same Supreme Court, arising from those violations. Also not mentioned: Zelaya was a puppet of Obama’s buddy Hugo Chavez, and a friend to Obama’s other buddies, the Castro brothers. While the forcible exile of Zelaya was not really defensible, there was a case to be made for his arrest and removal from office — but Obama leapt to Zelaya’s defense and declared him to still be the legal President of Honduras.

So let’s not praise Obama as the master of restraint in Latin America. But ill-considered threats of military force are not a great idea either.

[Cross-posted at RedState and The Jury Talks Back.]

232 Responses to “When We Told Trump To Be A Uniter And Not A Divider, We Didn’t Mean This”

  1. albeit unsuccessfully

    He meant well!

    That’s always the leftist excuse for failure.

    Patricia (5fc097)

  2. I really hate to take a poo on a wonderful thread right out of the box but…SO WHAT? You are just helping to broadcast another anti Trump salvo by the media. You even proved it by showing in your last paragraph how the same guys you’re broadcasting for BS’d their way through fake news about their idol, Barack Hussein Obama.

    Hate to say it Patterico but any time Trump farts the media, the commie students of antifa and the universities, and celebrities by the billions go apesh!t. It’s lost it’s uumph, it’s passion and it’s ability to convince anyone but fellow Trump haters or retards not aborted in Iceland.

    Regardless of what Trump says, regardless of what Trump does the aforementioned groups will hate him and find fault and you as well as I know it. They have made it their life’s work to destroy Trump and his *deplorable* followers to teach a “lesson” about electing one of the unwashed or they will be perfectly happy watching the Republic tear itself apart. Which, if you have not been watching, is exactly what these leftists are encouraging their followers to do.

    Rev.Hoagie® (630eca)

  3. Moderation? I haven’t been in moderation for a year. What did I say?

    Rev.Hoagie® (630eca)

  4. While the forcible exile of Zelaya was not really defensible, there was a case to be made for his arrest and removal from office

    There may not have been alegal case, because Honduras did not have an impeachment clause in its constitution. It later got ridiculous when a new election was deemed not wuite acceptable by some.

    The people who deposed Zelaya were reduced to arguing that Zelaya had effectively resigned by advicating a possible additional term.

    You can also argue there is always a right of the people (as was argued in the United States in 1787)

    Maduro tried this in Venezuala. Maduro has torn up the constitution with a supposed refernedum but quite illegitamately because the vote did not have the support of the population,

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  5. What exactly was Trump talkng about anyway? If anything

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  6. Yes I’ve shown how Santos is letting the guerilla run rampant, so what is the solution with cars whose actual military leader is planning a hit on a us senator, the oas hasn’t done anything about the Castro regime for 60 years

    narciso (d1f714)

  7. Honestly this is one of the places where Russia Cuba and iran converge:

    http://babalublog.com/2017/08/15/the-revolution-in-venezuela-is-over-and-they-won

    Words just words, a balm for the fallen over the last few months

    narciso (d1f714)

  8. The NY Times readers in South America will be aghast.

    harkin (fcaff0)

  9. President Trump’s statement can’t help but to build regional pressure on the failed Maduro regime, while emphatically underscoring that the US has interests in South American stability and security that we continue to take very seriously, notwithstanding the fecklessness of the previous 8 years.

    I don’t see any downside to this.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  10. So, we get accused of military intervention when it isn’t a possibility, therefore we cannot make it a possibility or we will make their predictions right?

    Dejectedhead (4d67e1)

  11. They don’t do anything of consequence Mexico in the 70s even gave sanctuary to various guerilla groups, so did Venezuela support the sandinistas to their own dissenter like the iguana 47 its a duff
    They get the president snow treatment of district 8

    narciso (d1f714)

  12. Carpetbaggers are mot appreciated:
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/argentine-president-macris-coalition-gets-strong-support-in-primary-election-1502690977

    Unlike hrte, corrupt officials the the Panama papers do not get an out.

    narciso (d1f714)

  13. Greetings:

    That President Obama, of whom you speak, didn’t he have something to do with having billions lent to Brazil’s PETROBRAS oil company and piggy bank for all the corruptocrats throughout its government. Apparently, though, not enough to save Lula from criminal charges or Dilma (First Female President ) from impeachyment.

    11B40 (6abb5c)

  14. Ah yes car wash involving odebrecht has tentacles reaching put all over the continent, they built that legion of doom opera house that flooded that first day in miani

    narciso (d1f714)

  15. Actually miguel estrada made a very good brief defending zelaya a wannabe Chavez, ouster.

    narciso (d1f714)

  16. Not a banner week for His Greatness. 3 business leaders pony up and step down, in response to His “anemic” performance on the Nazi/anti-Nazi question (not normally a tough one, Stateside); another (Wal-Mart) also rebuking The Orange Man on that score; and generally bad reviews from everyone from soup to nuts. And these durned Latin-Americans, tough couple of days/week indeed. And the South Koreans have chimed in as well! Seems they’d like a vote on their incineration, and don’t feel His Greatness’ performance of late (on the fire and fury (etc.) front) has been particularly helpful. I do hope the man doesn’t blow a gasket; or if he does, I hope he blows it big, quick, proper and non-metaphorically.

    Q! (267694)

  17. Since the President hates the media so much couldn’t he really taunt them by refusing to tell them anything of value? Imagine if the exchanges were something along those lines:

    Media jackass: “Mr. President, do you consider a military response to be on the table in regards to the situation in Venezuela?”
    The President (smirking): “We are considering any number of options.”
    Media jackass: “Yes, but is military intervention one of them?”
    The President (dismissively): “Time will tell.”

    This would serve the purpose of inflaming the media, and when the inevitable leaks come from the White House or Pentagon he can just deny and/or disavow them. But that strategy would involve restraint and tact, so we know that it is simply impossible with the present cast of players.

    JVW (d23c84)

  18. Let’s ask the people of oil rich Venezuela if they’d like to see US Marines run their whack job of a would-be dictator out of the country and replace his corrupt commie bureaucracy with an administration able to run a fair election and keep food in the stores.

    ropelight (072508)

  19. They fired Alk The works who actually knew how to extract oil, ropelight, now role teicity along with toilet paper is a memory, forget about food

    narciso (d1f714)

  20. @17 I’m sure you’ve thought this through to a far greater degree than I have, rope (Let’s ask the people of oil rich Venezuela if they’d like to see . . .), but what about the Sunni Venezolanos versus the Shi’a Venezolanos (and there may be others to worry about as well!), when we’re doing the asking and potential running out and rebuild and all? A little birdie seems to want to be telling me something, but I just can’t make it out clearly right this minute.

    Q! (267694)

  21. Ropelight, did you ever hear of the Roosevelt corollary to the Monroe Doctrine? And did you ever consider that when Latin Americans say Yanqui go home, they are seeing it through the filter of a hundred and fifty years of North American intervention and filibustering*?

    *Back in the 1850s, when Southerners were thinking about expanding slavery to Central America, the word had a second meaning which dropped out of use in the intervening years.

    kishnevi (bb03e6)

  22. Utterly jaw-dropping presser.

    “Steve Bannon is not a racist… Wait a minute… wait a minute… excuse me, excuse me… fake news… I’m not finished!” – President Donald J. Trump, 8/15/17

    Aren’t you?

    “Don’t be stupid, be a smarty, come and join the Nazi Party.” – Mel Brooks ‘The Producers’ 1967

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  23. Trump bigfoots self on Monday statement; reaffirms Saturday position on Charlottesville; blames ‘both sides’… and more. Oh. something about infrastructure, too.

    If you wanna watch a person talk about building bridges then blow them up seconds later, it’s a must see presser.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  24. Yes William walker kish, we went through this in the 80s, with the contras, read bob pagans early work, the Salvadoran guerrillas which weird crushed by the force our armed then diplomacy brought the ‘truth commissions, and a fmr guerilla ceran is now president there, this is the concern about Columbia, why pastrana and uribe informed trump what was going on there.

    narciso (d1f714)

  25. @21 & 22 – No link to video? you unmitigated bastard, you!

    (from nyt . . . President Trump on Tuesday insisted that he did nothing wrong on Saturday when he declined to specifically condemn Nazi and white supremacist groups, asserting that “before I make a statement, I like to know the facts.”

    Well, there’s a howler right there, eh? I’m literally on the floor already! (Now to find the video and the other jewels. Looks like he’s back to munching on Bannon’s … thingy, to beat the band.)

    Q! (267694)

  26. That President Obama, of whom you speak, didn’t he have something to do with having billions lent to Brazil’s PETROBRAS oil company and piggy bank for all the corruptocrats throughout its government. Apparently, though, not enough to save Lula from criminal charges or Dilma (First Female President ) from impeachyment.

    no

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2011/03/17/dispelling-the-petrobras-loan-myth-as-obama-heads-to-rio/#4156b28f6077

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  27. @24. LOL The single best imagery from it all is a photo of CoS John Kelly down cast, standing there in silence, in the lobby of Trump Tower listening to it all as it unfold.

    Truly a presser SNL will be hard pressed to top.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  28. Icing on the German chocolate cake: David Duke tweets thanks to President Trump for his honesty and courage to tell the truth….”vindication” after Trump tower presser.

    If Kelly has any self respect, honor– and balls, he’ll resign after this.

    “Dukie, if this thing blows up, the Feds will be the least of our problems.” – ‘Kid Twist’ [Harold Gould] ‘The Sting’ 1973

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  29. In the previous administration the zetas and the sinaloa cartels (that’s El chapo-s gang were provisioned by the aft, there was a similar operation for Honduras castaway.

    narciso (d1f714)

  30. @24.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YA8M13AEYr0

    Watch it all the way through.

    Then start drinking schnapps.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  31. As I understand it, there’s five (5) now that have peeled themselves off the Manufacturing Council, and the Wal-Mart “rebuke” to boot. I wonder if more will pull up stakes, given Trump’s tweet re: their fellows (“grandstanders”) and his performance today. And if so, will it ultimately make any difference in the least. I no longer make predictions in that regard (I may be dumb, but I’m not stupid) but one might feel at least that things might possibly be … adding up, at long last.

    Q! (267694)

  32. http://heavy.com/news/2017/08/john-kelly-disappointed-mad-head-down-photo-pictures-trump-charlottesville-blame/

    We’ll see just how much brass there is in the balls of this ‘general.’ His son died and he has served– and now he’s going to stand by as CoS and serve for a genuine full-blown “Nutzy??”

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  33. @31. After that presser, expect more.

    “Day ain’t over, yet.” – Curly Washburn [Jack Palance] ‘City Slickers’ 1991

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  34. Seeing as he seems to be firing pro Israel people and keeping rhodes road show people
    on two continents he can see himself out.

    narciso (d1f714)

  35. @28 DCSCA

    Would a drone strike on DD make you happy?

    All signs point to “no”.

    Pinandpuller (975b5d)

  36. @35. ‘Sauerkraut’ or Cabbage Patch Kid?

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  37. DCSCA

    I’m part German and I don’t care for cabbage or nazis.

    I haven’t seen comments from you about the literal black shirts attending the protest.

    Are you one of those ANTIFA-deniers?

    Pinandpuller (975b5d)

  38. Black bloc, as with the 9/11 denialists being dubbed truthers calling them antifa puffs their ego, its tjr same occupoopers with new trash bags

    narciso (d1f714)

  39. yes yes antifa’s even more astroturfy than those occupy dorkwads were they just shower more

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  40. @37. =yawn= You want kraut w/that dog cuz it don’t hunt. But you do like the beer, the schnapps, the strudel und frauleins. Sehr gut!

    I’m part Anglo/Saxon, Welsh, German, Swiss and French so consequently, always at war with myself.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEDWDAMRBeU

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  41. Listened to part of the presser and it was a disgrace game of baited Qs.

    It certainly wasn’t journalism but the lowest common denominators will be calling for blood.

    Meanwhile, America wonders what actual news may have happened.

    harkin (af9684)

  42. @37 I think I understand moderately well the issues presented by the white supremacists/removal protesters marching in Charlottesville. What is it that you believe I should know about the literal black shirts and the Charlottesville affair? Credible & informative links (together with whatever commentary/analysis you think useful) would be appreciated. Obliged.

    Q! (267694)

  43. @40. Listened to part of the presser and it was a disgrace game

    Yes, he was.

    A full blown Nutzy on display to the world:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWF8iRCan7I

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  44. Its the rizzogto press/ journalist no ‘what has enchanted you’ like Jeff zeleny.

    narciso (d1f714)

  45. DCSCA

    If you were Polish you could complete the WASP since you dropped out of church.

    I can just imagine how stoked you were when they started zip tying little old ladies in front of abortion clinics.

    Pinandpuller (975b5d)

  46. @44. If I were Polish I’d of sued Jack Benny.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  47. After a day of work at the Engineering Research Center at the University of Arkansas, Kyle Quinn had a pleasant Friday night in Bentonville with his wife and a colleague. They explored an art exhibition at the Crystal Bridges Museum of American Art and dined at an upscale restaurant.

    Then on Saturday, he discovered that social media sleuths had incorrectly identified him as a participant in a white nationalist rally some 1,100 miles away in Charlottesville, Va. Overnight, thousands of strangers across the country had been working together to share photographs of the men bearing Tiki torches on the University of Virginia campus. They wanted to name and shame them to their employers, friends and neighbors. In a few cases, they succeeded.

    Mr. Quinn, who runs a laboratory dedicated to wound-healing research, was quickly flooded with vulgar messages on Twitter and Instagram, he said in an interview on Monday. Countless people he had never met demanded he lose his job, accused him of racism and posted his home address on social networks.

    Fearing for their safety, he and his wife stayed with a colleague this weekend.

    “You have celebrities and hundreds of people doing no research online, not checking facts,” he said. “I’ve dedicated my life to helping all people, trying to improve health care and train the next generation of scientists, and this is potentially throwing a wrench in that.”” – NYTimes today.

    Sorry dood they are the left and they answer to no one. Not when the NYTimes was printing ofc Darren Wilson’s address, not when CNN was going after the guy who made a Trump video and ID’d the wrong guy. Not when Buzzfeed was waiting for Justine’s plane to land so they could tell her that her career was in the toilet.

    Get used to it USA

    harkin (af9684)

  48. NBC News reporting WH officials “stunned” at presser; say Trump “went rogue.”

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  49. Wow – turned on CNN for a few minutes.

    If you listened to the presser, Trump completely condemned the murderer and also the nazis and racists but pointed out some there were merely protesting the removal of a civil war statue and they had a right to do so.

    He also pointed out that some of the counter protestors were masked, carried baseball bats and did violence.

    On CNN they are reporting this as if he participated in a lynching while quoting mein kampf.

    They are breathlessly reporting his presidency is over, we can only hope they are as accurate as when they said his campaign was over following the pussy tape.

    harkin (af9684)

  50. Q!

    You may call me Picard or Jean-Luc if you prefer.

    I wish I could convey this to you in the voice of an Uzbek I used to work with:

    ANTIFA, I think mehbe they are bad guys.

    Pinandpuller (975b5d)

  51. DCSCA

    Has anyone ever said you have Wesson-ality?

    Pinandpuller (975b5d)

  52. I watched most of that press conference. Trump called the media out for not holding the antifa types to account for their incessant violence. The media are unabashed fans of this extremely violent fringe… never a negative word to say about them.

    I read some of these posts – e.g., DCSCA – and I see these posters’ wheels are turning, but their hamsters are officially dead.

    Colonel Haiku (470cbb)

  53. ANTIFA, I think mehbe they are bad guys.

    ROFLMAOPIP

    The rest of the world knows Neo-Nazi, white-supremacists and KKK’ers ARE bad guys.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWF8iRCan7I

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  54. @49 Disappointingly unhelpful, Pin. To call it thin gruel would be to defame that plate.

    Q! (267694)

  55. DCSCA

    Tell us when Trump runs over reporters with a golf cart.

    Pinandpuller (975b5d)

  56. “On Monday, more than 200 SJW zealots held a protest inside the American Museum of Natural History in New York City to take down the supposedly “racist” statue of former President Theodore Roosevelt. The protest’s organizers, NYC Stands with Standing Rock and Decolonize This Place, also called for Columbus Day to be renamed Indigenous People’s Day……

    ……While the protesters managed to create a disruption at the museum, they failed to take down Roosevelt’s statue mounted outside thanks to 25 police officers who stood guard.”

    http://www.dailywire.com/news/19741/leftist-activists-demand-new-york-museum-take-down-michael-qazvini

    If Trump commends the police officers for doing their jobs, is he “defending racists” as CNN claims on their crawl tonight?

    harkin (af9684)

  57. @50. you’ll have to ask my buddy, Smith; he’s a real pistol, PeePee.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  58. @52 DCSCA

    Did they have a right to protest? When the protest was revoked, were they funneled by police through ANTIFA?

    Pinandpuller (975b5d)

  59. Feel free to ask your brother if nazis still have civil rights when they aren’t breaching the peace.

    Pinandpuller (975b5d)

  60. Did you cry a little when the counter-protestors were killed at draw Mohamed day?

    Pinandpuller (975b5d)

  61. @54. Tell us when he drives one. The tea ‘toadler’ chauffered from tee-to-tee.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  62. =Haiku!= Gesundheit!

    I watched most of that press conference… And still haven’t had those cataracts taken care of. Next airing, listen to the Nutzy instead.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  63. Q!

    I wasn’t even talking to you in the first place.

    ANTIFA is Heckler’s Veto United.

    I’d swear some of you are Dense by Design

    Pinandpuller (975b5d)

  64. @58. Whoa, back-up. That’s a Dodge… Challenger.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  65. The ones that wee pointed out by the FBI informant pin, how that isn’t a scandal.

    narciso (d1f714)

  66. CNN seems to be the only with its bowels in an uproar over Trump condemning Antifa. Understandable. Antifa protests are CNN productions. CNN gives them scripts, signs and directs them where to pose for the cameras. Don’t know whether it busses them in and pays them, too, but wouldn’t doubt it.

    nk (dbc370)

  67. only *MSM outlet*

    nk (dbc370)

  68. They are probably their major audience like msnbc’s was ubl’s till they got rid of keefums, then he had to switch to Al jazeera

    narciso (d1f714)

  69. @65. It’s not that; you have to watch the whole presser to appreciate a full blown Nutzy in flower. It makes Kim Jong Un appear sane and George W. Bush sound like Einstein– the man, not the dog.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  70. Trump will never be thought articulate. But what went on in that presser today – media shouting out questions, interrupting the POTUS – you sure never saw that during any Obama press conference. They are as transparent as gossamer and they don’t even bother to hide their bias and they deserve all the contempt that comes their way.

    Colonel Haiku (470cbb)

  71. “On Monday, more than 200 SJW zealots held a protest inside the American Museum of Natural History in New York City to take down the supposedly “racist” statue of former President Theodore Roosevelt. The protest’s organizers, NYC Stands with Standing Rock and Decolonize This Place, also called for Columbus Day to be renamed Indigenous People’s Day……

    this happened in October 2016. Why is it being reported “On Monday”? I think I know the answer.

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  72. Common Sense, Honesty and Accountability are flowers that don’t grow in Lefty gardens.

    Not even in the collective ones…

    Colonel Haiku (470cbb)

  73. Columbus was a very good sailor unlike John McCain who crashed everything

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  74. @62 Pin – I’m concerned; have you had a stroke?

    Q! [¶]I wasn’t even talking to you in the first place.

    Cf. Me at #41, and you at #49:

    Q!
    You may call me Picard or Jean-Luc if you prefer.
    I wish I could convey this to you in the voice of an Uzbek I used to work with:
    ANTIFA, I think mehbe they are bad guys.

    (then me at #53)

    Maybe a little lie-down, at least, wouldn’t go amiss? Really, pal; you’re not getting any younger, you know. (Sorry, the “Picard” etc. and Uzbek voice comments might should have tipped me off earlier that you might be, you know, smelling burning rubber whilst playing with your duckies in the tub . . .)

    Q! (267694)

  75. Don’t give a darn what our resident leftists think. The President was fantastic today.

    Called out all parties involved in violence in Virginia and specifically took the media to task for not admitting the role the leftist antifa played in Virginia.

    The media’s girl crush with violent leftists needs to end.

    NJRob (025c4e)

  76. 71. =Haiku!= Gesundheit!

    Common Sense, Honesty and Accountability are flowers that don’t grow in Lefty gardens.

    Whereas fields and fields of edelweiss bloom endlessly in the high and Righties.

    [BTW, Colonel, w/sincere common sense, honesty and accountability, good to see you back posting, fella.]

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  77. harkin (af9684) — 8/15/2017 @ 3:22 pm

    In fact, CNN was worse. They are pretending the Antifa thugs were not there or were at worst a minor presence. They claim peaceful Leftist protesters were simply attacked by violent Nazis. Someone who actually depends on CNN will think Trump’s statement of the facts at the press conference today was another outright lie.

    kishnevi (fb4c79)

  78. there’s a lot of love in this thread tonight

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  79. @73. The President was fantastic today.

    He certainly was; along with a ride in Chitty, Chitty, Bang, Bang on a trip to Uranus.

    “=clang-clang= Bellevue!” – Doris Walker [Maureen O’Hara] ‘Miracle On 34th Street’ 1947

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  80. @76

    violent Nazis

    I’m glad Trump was there to stand up for the peaceful Nazis.

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  81. Remember all the reporters that wept with the wandering coma’s passing., Kevin , they have rarely given a tinkers about Cuba, and even less for Venezuela.

    narciso (d1f714)

  82. 78
    No, Trump was very clear on the fact that violent right wing thugs and violent left wing thugs brawled with each other. CNN chose to pretend to the left wing thugs don’t exist.

    kishnevi (fb4c79)

  83. http://www.wral.com/82nd-airborne-responds-to-man-wearing-hat-at-charlottesville-protests/16882549/

    “After photos of the Charlottesville rally went viral this weekend, members of the 82nd Airborne Division discovered that one of the white supremacists at the rally was wearing their division’s hat. The veterans rightly pointed out that supremacists probably shouldn’t wear their hats, since, you know, the entire point of their division was to destroy Nazis like him.”

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  84. Q!

    As I recall my black shirt questions were to DCSCA. If you want to join in I have no objections but I save homework assignments for the nonce.

    Stroke-no.

    STTNG

    I just remembered another Uzbeki I worked with. (Both guys named Murodjon interestingly enough)

    Something he used to say is germane,”I am a very fast driver.”

    Pinandpuller (975b5d)

  85. driving fast is not sustainable – NOT SUSTAINABLE – for the erf unless you in a tesler and even then there’s the second-order carbon emissions from the burning itching coal and natural gas power plants what you charge it up with

    plus wear and tear on the tires

    and plus also driving is so white privilege anyways

    Henry Ford was a nazi you know

    i’d hate to be one of *his* effing statues

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  86. https://www.someecards.com/news/weird-news/tiki-torch-company-releases-statement/

    “TIKI Brand is not associated in any way with the events that took place in Charlottesville and are deeply saddened and disappointed. We do not support their message or the use of our products in this way. Our products are designed to enhance backyard gatherings and to help family and friends connect with each other at home in their yard.”

    “March!!!” – Herr Strachwitz [Harry Riebauer] ‘The Great Escape’ 1963

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  87. DD and Jesse Jackson both have the right to walk around NYC feeling uneasy when approached by young black males.

    Pinandpuller (975b5d)

  88. @82. Sour kraut is gut, eh, Pee-Pee.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  89. The 82nd Division was formed in 1917. It became airborne in 1942. I suppose you can say it was formed to fight Germans.

    nk (dbc370)

  90. An interesting story, recall the interrogation of abu zubeydah well one of the fbi interrogators Sufan was appalled but the other gaudin has been through sere training as part of his time in the 82nd, so he understood the process

    narciso (d1f714)

  91. Q!

    Don’t get me wrong, it’s nice of you to take time out of your busy neurosurgery practice to try and help a stranger.

    I do think that picturing me in a bathtub says more about you than me.

    Pinandpuller (975b5d)

  92. It’s still a violation of the UCMJ for military personnel to subject prisoners to “SERE training”. That’s why Gitmo and the CIA’s and FBI’s civilian psychos.

    nk (dbc370)

  93. @78 Davethulu

    Peaceful nazis. Peaceful socialists. Peaceful trade unionists. Peaceful Jews. Peaceful me and peaceful you.

    Pinandpuller (975b5d)

  94. Peaceful nazis…

    Occupied pieces of:

    Albania
    Austria
    Belgium
    Byelorussia (part of the USSR)
    Channel Islands (part of Britain)
    The Crimea (part of the USSR)
    Czechoslovakia (absorbed half, the other half forming the country of Slovakia)
    Denmark
    Estonia
    France
    Greece
    Latvia
    Lithuania
    Luxembourg
    Netherlands (Holland)
    Norway
    Poland
    Russia (partially)
    The Sudentenland
    Parts of the Transcaucus region (part of the USSR)
    Ukraine (part of the USSR)
    und a peeza Yugoslavia!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  95. It’s weird how people can say he’s not my president, but he for sure is the nazi’s president.

    Pinandpuller (975b5d)

  96. Oh, und zee peaceful nazis also occupied all of North Africa west of Egypt, a large part of Italy after the country changed sides in 1943 und were hungry for a hefty piece of Hungary in 1944-45.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  97. @95 Oh, bless your heart, Pin . . .

    I do think that picturing me in a bathtub says more about you than me.

    Not to worry. The tiny little ducks covered up just everything ever-so-easy.

    Q! (267694)

  98. @98 DCSCA

    You do know Trump is president of THE UNITED STATES right?

    Are you saying some illegal alien nazis invaded Charlottesville?

    Pinandpuller (975b5d)

  99. He may have slept through that, signed has decades charlottesville capital of the resistance kind of like district 13

    narciso (d1f714)

  100. DCSCA

    If you own a car, would you mind if I hired ANTIFA to come by and detail it for you?

    “Just a good old boys”. Waylon Jennings

    Pinandpuller (975b5d)

  101. @104- Why dontcha march by Walmart on the way and pick yourself up some tiki torches– BIG Pre-Oktoberfest Sale!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  102. “But ill-considered threats of military force are not a great idea either.”

    I doubt Trump is thinking in unilateral action. And I doubt he means he will get rid of Maduro. More likely he will work with the OAS or the UN to get food to starving Venezuelan citizens. That’s not an easy job in a dictatorship where anyone not affiliated with Maduro is considered an enemy of the state. And that may include a multi-national force to protect distribution centers.

    People who dislike Trump will always assume the worst. In reality his foreign policy efforts have been quite good, especially getting both China and Russia to support the US in the UN over N Korea. And he backed young Kim down with no loss of life. He does not believe in Strategic Patience, as his predecessor did.

    Corky Boyd (67ed11)

  103. “Oakland 2009, Akron 2009, Pittsburgh 2009, Santa Cruz 2010, Oakland 2010, Los Angeles 2010, Oakland 2011, Chicago 2012, Anaheim 2012, Brooklyn 2013, Ferguson 2014, New York City 2014, Baltimore 2015, Anaheim 2016, Chicago 2016, St Paul 2016, Milwaukee 2016, Charlotte 2016, Standing Rock 2016, Oakland 2016, Portland 2016, Washington DC 2017, Berkeley 2017, Anaheim 2017, Berkeley (again) 2017, Berkeley (again again) 2017, Olympia 2017, and Portland 2017. This is a list of overwhelmingly leftist protests [that turned violent]…..

    …Part of the left labeling all conservatives as bigots or enablers of bigots and all leftwing activists as moral crusaders includes prominent reporters in the mainstream media. Already, what happened in Charlottesville and its aftermath have received equal or more prominent coverage than James Hodgekinson’s mass assassination attempt. Much of the press corps and major voices on the left see no difference between conservatives and white supremacists……

    ….They have lost their ability to distinguish because they see anyone to right of them as equally awful. It affects the media’s coverage and it affect’s the left’s willingness to engage in dialogue. They less and less see their opponents as opponents and more and more see them as the enemy….

    ……Because so many on the left are unwilling to call their own to account and, instead, vest virtue in their violence, there will be fewer conservatives willing to call their own to account. There will therefore be more of this sort of thing and even less moral clarity. Violence will begat violence and as the media refuses to be fair in its coverage, reporters will have a harder and harder time finding conservative voices who care enough to speak up. And after all, why should they? They’ll only be labeled bigots by the left for something else.”

    http://theresurgent.com/here-is-why-the-violence-is-going-to-escalate-and-escalate-quickly/?utm_content=bufferc3818&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

    harkin (af9684)

  104. DCSCA

    Like Dennis Miller, I’m an inactivist.

    Pinandpuller (975b5d)

  105. It would likely require the support of neighboring govt and as a real authority like Mary o Grady not I have pointed out, Santos is paving the way for a left takeover.

    narciso (d1f714)

  106. happyfeet

    Did you have an incredible journey with Sassy and Shadow?

    Pinandpuller (975b5d)

  107. @81. Every stew needs seasoning– whatz cookin’ Happy?!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  108. Much of the press corps and major voices on the left see no difference between conservatives and white supremacists

    It seems like Trump suffers from a similar disability. CNN pretends Leftist thugs don’t exist, while Trump claims some of those rightwing protesters were only there to support leaving the statue of Lee, and were not white supremacists. Balances it out, I suppose. (I haven’t seen anything to suggest any of them were something other than supremacists. And if I were an idealistic neoConfederate, who was there, I hope I would have the sense to leave when I saw a platoon of Nazi flags carried by a bunch of men shouting an updated version of Juden raus!

    kishnevi (d99923)

  109. It was a dark journey my friend through valleys dark treacherous and oppressive.

    Thank you all for your cards and letters and whoever sent the peabnut bubber cookies (favorite).

    I stand before you a free pikachu, possessed of both voice and insouciance, but a chastened one as well.

    For to be free is not merely to cast off one’s chains, but to live in a way that respects and enhances the freedom of others.

    And that is what I intend to do hence and also forth.

    I will stand with you my brothers and sisters and with our noble and beleaguered President (Donald Trump) (figuratively).

    And together we will have many adventures!

    And also we will not destroy any statuary.

    So if you were lookin to sign up with some kind of statue-destroying pikachu gang – just keep on walkin.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  110. Its like the dreadful westboro Baptists, they would have made cotton mather flinch, but they often have found a reason to be there (The European obsession with them is seen in kingsman) now people carrying commie flags like the Durham demolition team, we they are ok to cnn.

    narciso (d1f714)

  111. happyfeet (28a91b) — 8/15/2017 @ 6:52 pm


    There is only one thing I can say to that.

    nk (dbc370)

  112. This occasioned iowahawks special report on violent journalist, well two years before

    https://mobile.twitter.com/pspoole/status/897625599254175744/photo/1

    narciso (d1f714)

  113. still

    it’s a lovely dream

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  114. Anyhow, now that you’re back I can stop defending Trump. I have three Jack Vance novels (I had four but I already read one) and seven Nero Wolfe novels pining for my attention.

    nk (dbc370)

  115. The original not goldaboroughs follow up

    narciso (d1f714)

  116. thank you so much Mr. nk

    people have really been giving Mr. Trump the dickens

    et tu, walmart?

    which – how annoying is that I was just starting to rely on jet.com

    now what?

    maybe costco?

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  117. @narcisco:Its like the dreadful westboro Baptists,

    Democrat and civil rights hero Fred Phelps. Tells you all you need to know. The history and views of the Westboro Baptists, pretty much all named Phelps or married to people once named Phelps, are in high standing with one of the Democratic party’s most loyal constituencies–and they can be used to tar other Christians and the Right, at least for people who don’t know anything but the Narative they read in the papers.

    Frederick (c8a679)

  118. Remember pikachu, red queen o. The board once upon a time.

    narciso (d1f714)

  119. Costco might be a white Sox fandom situation, great company and largely competant, but your future fellow patrons are ayholes.

    urbanleftbehind (53100b)

  120. I liked the one Goldsborough book in which Archie and Nero first meet. That is original and good. Stout had never written about that.

    I tried two of the follow-ups (which imitate the regular Nero Wolfe mysteries) and only got through a few pages. The style is just not the same as Stout’s.

    nk (dbc370)

  121. @urbanleftbehind:but your future fellow patrons are ayholes.

    Are you maybe thinking of Whole Foods instead?

    Frederick (c8a679)

  122. i’m still struck how not once has President Trump shown any inclination to use or leverage charlottesville for any kind of political gain

    while the cnn jake tapper fake news propaganda sluts are going all newtown on it and they’re not fooling anyone (unless you count simpleton ceo-trash from bentonville)

    but the most disgusting had to have been Orrin Hatch, who couldn’t wait to pimp out his dead brother

    god that was gross

    his dead brother who, by the way, died while he was still in the habit of worshiping at a church that at the time quite proudly refused to ordain black people (cause of they were black)

    these sleazy filthy senate codgers get more obscene and nasty by the month it seems

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  123. Goldsborough should have known that. One of Stout’s books had Wolfe solving a case by noticing that three stories, purporting to be by different authors, had been written by the same person. Goldsborough was already a professional writer, 45 years at the Chicago Tribune, and he could no more change his style than he could change his face.

    nk (dbc370)

  124. I’d say both. Costco at least presents that rugged pre-Ectopia image of the Great Pacific Northwest through its Kirkland imprimatur. Much of that dated back to the. “Costco has great pay and full benefits” meme used to malign the Walton ship, but it probably has more goodwill across spectrum in this Rowe-Trump age. Costco also faced some heat in their handling of a vet who brandished a weapon inside a warehouse store and was killed by LV Metro police some years back.

    urbanleftbehind (53100b)

  125. costco was all up obama’s butt though if i remember right

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  126. @113- Big White sale at JC Penney’s, Tapping Tootsie!

    Muslin sheets, too!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  127. @urbanleftbehind:Costco at least presents that rugged pre-Ectopia image of the Great Pacific Northwest through its Kirkland imprimatur.

    Huh. I’ve been shopping at Costco 30 years, and the image I have is giant jars of mayonnaise and checkers who called out and typed in 4 digit numbers instead of scanning. And Kirkland to me suggests a couple of exits on the 405, with some giant medical buildings and car dealerships.

    Frederick (c8a679)

  128. if i see one more stupid CNN Jake tapper fake news propaganda slut article about how challenging it is for highly-subsidized yet nevertheless plucky solar panels to deal with a stupid three-minute effing eclipse I’m a need a therapy dog

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  129. jet used to carry Kirkland before the rabidly hateful and divisive corporation we call “walmart” bought it

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  130. A close friend of mine likes to joke about how a Costco card is so easy to get that it offer no meaning exclusivity. And I like to counter that the 5% of the population that can’t get it together well enough to qualify for Costco membership is the same 5% that make Walmart what it is.

    Frederick (c8a679)

  131. From the parts of Chicago suburbia where high property taxes make you take the whole family to Costco solely for a lunch of samples, perception of Kirkland miles do vary.

    urbanleftbehind (53100b)

  132. If you want the old-time Costco experience, when it really was a wholesaler, go to the business Costco. You can buy queso fresco 10 pounds at a time.

    Frederick (c8a679)

  133. if i do costco it’s more for costco.com than to go to the store

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  134. @happyfeet: In my experience there’s no savings at costco.com. In-store is cheaper, if they have it in store.

    Frederick (c8a679)

  135. i ain’t got no car and they tag the carts now to where they freeze up when you get em off the lot

    and there you are with you ten pounds of cheese and a cart what won’t roll

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  136. no it’s not for savings so much

    i got a system now where anything i can get online i get online so i only have to shop at mariano’s or jewel for meat and produce and sometimes cocktail stuff

    i get dairy at cvs

    but like detergent or any kind of consumer packaged good i get online

    it was working really well with jet but now that walmart’s declared hate on the president I can’t justify giving them my monies

    it feels dirty

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  137. @happyfeet: they tag the carts now

    What crime-ridden hell-hole do you live in? I’ve never seen a tagged cart at a Costco.

    They should never have tried to bring Costco to foreigners; I don’t think its an idea that survive out of the PNW without changing beyond recognition.

    @urbanleftbehind: There’s one Costco business center in Chicago, i highly recommend you try it. You can get a giant box of those convenience store pastries, or a box of wire whisks.

    Frederick (c8a679)

  138. i may have made the tagged cart part up

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  139. ghetto target in NoHo though had these carts where the wheels would lock if you got too far away from the store

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  140. california had a place called Smart & Final which was very bulky but not as much of an ordeal as Costco

    i liked shopping there and they never got all hateful on the president, which I think reflected well on their sense of priorities

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  141. @happyfeet: I will tell you a true PNW story. I was at a golf course with some buddies, one of whom was a recent transplant from New York. There was a box of tees. Each of us took as many we thought we needed, two or three. He hung back, asked “These are free?” Yeah, we said. “You only took one or two?” Yeah, we said, not sure where he was trying to go with this. He shook his head at our simplicity, and explained, “In New York, someone would have taken the whole box.” We didn’t believe him. Who would take a box of tees? They just have them there if you need some.

    Frederick (c8a679)

  142. lol i remember one time in Vicksburg Mississippi I went to a store that had those self-serve boiled peanuts – these were the bbq ones so i got some but i didn’t get a whole cup, which, you pay by the cup

    and the checkout lady was all sweetie you need to go back and fill that cup up

    i can’t remember what i said but i was endeared

    i’d love to summer there sometime

    rent a place on the slope down to the river

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  143. I wish I’d filled my Costco cart up with those wire whisks. I can never seem to find them when I want them.

    That’s what Costco was in the old days: a place for people who plan ahead, and can tie up capital in ten pounds of mayonnaise or two years’ worth of windshield wipers, and can pay an annual membership fee.

    Frederick (c8a679)

  144. yes yes i need more spatulae

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  145. Occupy Oakland @OccupyOakland

    We won this night. We will control the streets. We will liberate the land. We will fight fascists. We will dismantle the state. This is war. Become ungovernable!
    ___

    These are the sh**birds that some are comparing to Allied troops at Normandy.

    harkin (af9684)

  146. @119 nk

    So you’re on the JV team?

    Pinandpuller (975b5d)

  147. @129 ULB

    Sorry to correct but he did not brandish his weapon.

    A CSR noticed his gun when his shirt or jacket rode up. He was apparently unaware of Costco’s TOU and the clerk called it in as if the guy pulled the gun. Somehow all of The in store footage got erased.

    With a cloth?

    Pinandpuller (975b5d)

  148. Meh. Just another day-in-the-life of the chip off the ol’block…

    In 1927, Donald Trump’s father was arrested after a Klan riot in Queens

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/02/28/in-1927-donald-trumps-father-was-arrested-after-a-klan-riot-in-queens/?utm_term=.bc442b82d983

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  149. Detained and discharged. See newspaper clipping at Snopes. http://www.snopes.com/donald-trump-father-kkk-1927/

    nk (dbc370)

  150. hello happyfeet
    I’m thinking of burning all my patagonia and under armour clothing. And go back to wool.

    mg (31009b)

  151. @154 DCSCA

    Was Ted Cruz’s abuelo there too?

    Pinandpuller (3d7c5b)

  152. Moderation? I haven’t been in moderation for a year. What did I say?

    Retards.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  153. I added that word to the filter years ago. I found that abusive comments often used it.

    I released yours though. It wasn’t abusive.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  154. @154. =yawn= All that and more’s in the WaPo piece, clippings et al.

    On Memorial Day 1927, brawls erupted in New York led by sympathizers of the Italian fascist movement and the Ku Klux Klan. In the fascist brawl, which took place in the Bronx, two Italian men were killed by anti-fascists. In Queens, 1,000 white-robed Klansmen marched through the Jamaica neighborhood, eventually spurring an all-out brawl in which seven men were arrested. One of those arrested was Fred Trump of 175-24 Devonshire Rd. in Jamaica.

    It’s not clear from the context what role Fred Trump played in the brawl. The news article simply notes that seven men were arrested in the “near-riot of the parade,” all of whom were represented by the same lawyers. Update: A contemporaneous article from the Daily Star notes that Trump was detained “on a charge of refusing to disperse from a parade when ordered to do so.”

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  155. @156- Believe he was clamming off Ford Island making maps of Oahu at the time.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  156. Time for people to quit buying products made by companies that hate you.

    mg (31009b)

  157. Trying to get my wife from buying amazon and use it as a product identification check then buy it at another site.

    mg (31009b)

  158. 159. To quote The New York Times: “By internet frenzy standards, that’s proof enough.”

    nk (dbc370)

  159. There are a lot of people who want everyone who disagrees with them to shut up. They don’t get what really makes America great.

    DRJ (d35869)

  160. Odd how they didn’t point that out in his obituary in 99, I cry fake news, in All too real news mittens beclowns homself

    narciso (d1f714)

  161. looks for all the whirl like pervy mitt romney coordinated his message with meghan’s sleazy war hero daddy

    pervert said this

    No, not the same. One side is racist, bigoted, Nazi. The other opposes racism and bigotry. Morally different universes.

    p.o.s. war hero John McCain:

    There’s no moral equivalency between racists & Americans standing up to defy hate& bigotry. The President of the United States should say so

    the irony is how sleazy war hero john mccain has worked so hard to get americans killed in afghanistan fighting the taliban (and succeeded – but he’s not done yet)

    then he embraces taliban values here at home!

    he’s a very sick person

    #warhero

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  162. The colectivos are what a deputized black bloc would be like.

    narciso (d1f714)

  163. One of mitts lead supporters vanderslip was targeted by fusion gps just like their in country. Counterpart, derwick associates went after halvorsen.

    narciso (d1f714)

  164. Usually they got Charlie pierce to do this:
    twitchy.com/samj-3930/2017/08/16/remove-head-from-arse-before-tweeting-esquire-writer-compares-antifa-to-wwii-vets-gets-blasted/?utm_campaign=twitchywidget

    narciso (d1f714)

  165. It’s that kind of clear, incisive, discriminating reasoning that won the Presidency for McCain in 2008 and Romney in 2012.

    nk (dbc370)

  166. It crosses ovEr the tufnel line, whereas esquire eliminates it. Carrying over from the salon its cinstructivist think Ala turchenko that enables this foolishment, my grandfather intuited this 30 years ago

    narciso (d1f714)

  167. Latin America is a land of piece, sr Santos you just ended a civil war what went on 50 years.

    narciso (d1f714)

  168. Trumps moral bona fides took a giant dump. He had the deer in headlights look but that’s his genius: eleventy-dimensionsl chess.

    Ben burn (05b387)

  169. Here are seven things you need to know about Antifa:

    1. Antifa uses fascist tactics to achieve its goals. Antifa is to anti-fascism what Stalin was to freedom. Antifa is fascism personified. Despite calling themselves “anti-fascist,” members of Antifa routinely deploy fascist tactics to shut down, intimidate, harass, and bloody their political opponents. In fact, the group gained national visibility after viciously targeting Trump supporters at an event in Berkeley. “They’ve shown up previously at Berkeley to shut down a ‘free speech’ event hosted by provocateur Milo Yiannopoulos, leaving damaged property, fires, and assault victims in their wake,” notes Conservative Review. Before that, Antifa thugs expressed their rage about Trump’s presidential victory by burning down liberal meccas like Portland and Oakland. Throwing rocks through Starbucks’ storefronts, slashing tires, burning parked cars, smashing windows at auto dealerships, shutting down public transit, and attacking police, these thugs effectively took control over major city centers in the days after Trump’s electoral victory.

    2. The Department of Homeland Security labeled Antifa’s actions as “domestic terrorism.” “Shortly after Trump’s election, anarchist and far-left protesters rioted in Portland, bringing at least a million dollars’ worthof damage — and resulting, in the eyes of the Department of Homeland Security, in ‘domestic terrorism,’” explains Politico. The Antifa group in Portland, known as Rose City Antifa, is particularly violent. The group has actively targeted Republican organizations and student groups, threatening to shut down events with violence. The left-leaning Oregonian newspaper has called Rose City Antifa’s rampage the worst political violence in a generation. “Their actions — conducted anonymously but brutally — show them to be punk fascists,” said the paper’s editorial board.

    3. Antifa uses “black bloc” attacks to promote violence, sow chaos, and evade law enforcement. Like their counterparts in Europe, American leftist activists often promote violence and reap chaos through time-tested tactics such as black bloc assaults, which feature thousands of black-clad and masked self-professed anarchists destroying everything in sight with hockey sticks, baseball bats, metal poles, trash cans, and virtually anything they can get their hands on.

    The tactic was popularized by leftist rioters during the 1999 World Trade Organization protests in Seattle. Since then, it has been deployed by an eclectic blend of leftists at both college campuses and international summits in an effort to terrorize those who promulgate problematic points of view, including capitalism, patriarchy, and alleged racism.

    4. Antifa’s garbled ideology is grounded in Marxism. All Antifa members seem to share an aversion to capitalism. Beyond that, Antifa’s political aim cannot be pinned down to one issue or cause. Ultimately, these violent leftist activists do not appear to have a coherent, let alone unified, message. When they riot, activists air their grievances about everything from climate change to transphobia in an effort to espouse whatever fashionable leftist talking point is popular at the time.

    5. The mainstream Left is praising Antifa. Berkeley’s student newspaper isn’t the only one celebrating the thuggish group for their violent tactics in the age of Trump. From Esquire to Slate to The Nation, mainstream liberal publications are glorifying Antifa’s “resistance,” reframing their violent tactics as “defensive” posturing against the Trumpian America’s supposed plunge into fascism. Paranoid and conspiracy minded, the mainstream Left has abandoned all sense of political decorum to embrace vigilantism. And even liberals who aren’t explicitly praising Antifa are refusing to condemn their behavior. “Trump’s rise has also bred a new sympathy for Antifa among some on the mainstream left,” asserts The Atlantic.

    6. The vast majority of Antifa members are pitiable losers. As The Daily Wire’s Aaron Bandler reported, 9 in 10 Antifa members are still living in their mother’s basement. Citing a report by Heat Street, Bandler noted “92% of the protesters at these anti-fascist rallies that are believed to have committed violence still live with their parents.”

    While Antifa claims to support “diversity,” the group’s rank-and-file is comprised mostly of single, unemployed young white males (far-left Antifa meet “alt-right” neo-Nazis and white supremacists).

    7. Antifa conflates speech with violence, believing that “offensive” rhetoric, “hate” speech, and micro-aggressions should be counteracted with macro-aggressions, or physical violence. Internalizing the social justice warrior (SJW) gospel, Antifa has come to believe that speech itself is tantamount to physical assault. As a result, Antifa deploys violent tactics to shut down speech they don’t like. We saw that vividly in Berkeley.
    X
    “In the name of fighting for those ideals — and putting a stop to ‘hate speech’—some antifa protestors will employ militant tactics or violent means such as vandalism,” explainsTime.

    Antifa’s tactics aren’t just violent but counterproductive to their poorly-articulated goals.

    “It just makes [antifa] feel good — they think they made a point,” Mark Pitcavage, a domestic political extremism researcher with the Anti-Defamation League (ADL), tells Politico. “But their tactics are counterproductive. They haven’t made any dent over the years with those tactics. … And it gives the white supremacists an unbelievable amount of publicity.”

    http://www.dailywire.com/news/19717/7-things-you-need-know-about-antifa-michael-qazvini

    Colonel Haiku (470cbb)

  170. Charles Pierce

    All the hinges are gone now. The rails are far behind. The trolley is missing and presumed lost. The president* came down to the lobby of his Manhattan tower, ostensibly to sign an executive order on “infrastructure.” He then took questions and we all went on a magic carpet ride through what he really thinks about the events in Charlottesville last weekend. For three days, whatever sensible people remain at Camp Runamuck have been trying to find some way to run damage control on the president*’s initial, ridiculous non-response to those events, whereupon, on Tuesday, the president* stepped up to the mic and blew all that work into tiny bits. Quite simply, the only president* we have lost his sh*t so badly on live TV that he’ll never be able to find it again.

    QUITE SIMPLY, THE ONLY PRESIDENT* WE HAVE LOST HIS SH*T SO BADLY ON LIVE TV THAT HE’LL NEVER BE ABLE TO FIND IT AGAIN.

    Ben burn (05b387)

  171. The Left is an EPIC FAIL model, they are well on their way out and they will continue to lash out and do as much damage to the country as they can. It’s how they roll.

    Colonel Haiku (470cbb)

  172. Charlie pierce, snorfle, the only quibble is calling them antifa, they ate the occupooprs

    narciso (d1f714)

  173. Very persuasive Col. Sanders.

    Ben burn (05b387)

  174. Ben reminds me of Samuel l jacjsons query in pulp fiction, no I’m not going to repeat it.

    narciso (d1f714)

  175. Slaughter of English language sycophant.

    Ben burn (05b387)

  176. Yes coronelli you have to dial down the ambient noise. To hear what is actually go g on.

    narciso (d1f714)

  177. Get some glasses or small- motor functionality ffs.

    Ben burn (05b387)

  178. There he is… lashing out.

    Colonel Haiku (470cbb)

  179. Autocorrect dirsnt often do that.

    narciso (d1f714)

  180. Colonel haiku @175. The Atlantic has a very good article about this. The magazine came in the mail yesterday.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/09/the-rise-of-the-violent-left/534192/

    It’s not about Charlottsville; it’s about Portland Oregon. It’s similar to this because the only people killed were by a neo-Nazi, except that that case is worse than this one, because in that case the neo-Nazi killed two people, but here he killed one person.

    And yet he finds the core of the trouble is with the violent left. That’s the headline. And in the body the author, Peter Beinart, condemns both sides equally, like Trump.

    A politicized fight culture is emerging, fueled by cheerleaders on both sides.

    This article was noted in today’s Wall Street Journal column by Holmam W. Jenkins Jr.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-loses-corporate-america-1502836332 (behind a paywall)

    Mr. Trump was essentially correct when he warned, in his initial, widely-panned comments, about danger from “many sides.” In one of those quirks of old-style magazine publishing, the Atlantic dropped a story, dated September, that went to press before Charlottesville and yet details the “The Rise of the Violent Left,” especially the Antifa movement that was in the middle of the Charlottesville brawl.

    Mr. Trump, who perhaps actually paid attention to his Charlottesville briefing, may just have responded the way 99% of Americans would have to the full story. Or the way European publics in the 1920s and ’30s did when they saw Hitlerites and Stalinists battling in the streets and wanted nothing to do with either.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  181. Trump U. students prefer Victimology as a career. Double major in WHINE MAKING. Check out Ace/Maguire for corroboration

    Ben burn (05b387)

  182. Of course an arsonist would claim the police will persecute him, Sammy.

    Ben burn (05b387)

  183. Its weak tea, but that’s what one cam expect from a publication which had issues with basic biology, every one once in a while thetecid a great piece by graeme wood, but mistluy its Tennessee coated twaddell.

    narciso (d1f714)

  184. But ill-considered threats of military force are not a great idea either.

    Amen. Trump and Obama are and were too ready to make this mistake.

    Interesting to see Juan Manuel Santos characterising [South] America as a “land of peace”, though, as he is well aware of recent Venezuelan-Ecuadorian-Cuban collaboration in boosting radical militancy within his own country.

    I suppose for a given value of “peace” he’s right. Colombia is in enviable shape after a fifty-year plus insurgency but is still picking up the pieces, no thanks to the policies of Maduro’s predecessor.

    JP (f1742c)

  185. ““I watched those very closely, much more closely than you people watched it, and you have – You had a group on one side that was bad and you had a group on the other side that was also very violent. And nobody wants to say that, but I’ll say it right now. You had a group, you had a group on the other side that came charging in without a permit and they were very, very violent.”

    His secret knowledge is way advanced.

    No one can dispute his omniscience.

    Ben burn (05b387)

  186. That’s what I mean Jp, but the view is prpple wiser than me, suggest Santos is making the situation worse. Venezuela was the proverbial saw that was nailed dry to support a whole continent of leftist from Mexico to the cape

    narciso (d1f714)

  187. When we begin to see ads like this placed by *radical rightists* there will really be violence from the “radical right”.

    http://admin.americanthinker.com/images/bucket/2017-08/199960_5_.png

    BTW, Nazi’s are still leftists regardless of how much they deny it. Or as Hitler said:

    “We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are determined to destroy this system under all conditions” – Adolf Hitler, May 1, 1927.

    In Maxine Water’s words: “Resist we much”.

    Rev.Hoagie® (630eca)

  188. If Trump had more sense, he could clarify things. He said a couple of things that were wrong. The protesters were not just people who opposed getting rid of the statue. The murderer’s side was a much smaller group of people, and drawn from all over, while the counterprotesters had many more people and were local including the woman who was killed. The violent people were a small percentage of the large crowd they attracted.

    There probably weren’t any good people on the murderer’s side.

    The thing is the Antifa people are much more anti-free speech, while the other side doesn’t so much want to shut people up as to kill them. The neo-Nazis and most of the current day KKK types don’t find anything immoral about killing, but they are very careful because of legal consequences, including possible civil liability. They are happy if somebody kills someone without being told, or so they say.

    The Antifa people are much more of a threat to freedom, and to inflict non-life-threatening injuries on people, while the killer’s side is much more of a threat to individuals but not to freedom.

    The violent left justifies the killing of police, or maybe Republican politicians, while the violent right justifies killing the grass roots of the other side. They are not mirror images of each other. Trump didn’t equate them either but he seems to have amde Antifa worse, although they are less prone to killing – since they still oppose murder except in special cases, while the other side lacks a belief that murder is morally wrong. That’s why they make a hero of a man who was responsible for the deaths of approximately 2% of the human race. That’s what you do when you want to abolish the Sixth Commandment. It doesn’t exist anywhere in their whole ideology. Now they know better than to act on it.

    It’s do not pass go, but go to jail right away, and maybe get capital punishment, if they don’t get killed right away by police.

    But some of their members are stupid, riled up by the other side, and have the opinion they may be powerful because they are opposed so heatedly, and because of the claims by their leaders that they have a friend in or at least someone neutral in the White House. Their leaders are getting a lot out of this. Money and some status at least.

    That goes for the other side too actually – the one that needs some moral justification to attack people. They need the punishment to fit the “crime” and they’re not ready to justify killing people for exihibiting “racism.” They also go in for victories, and count it as victory anytime they shut someone up, or cost someone a job, and if anything they want to repeatedly punish someone, which wouldn’t be possible if they were dead. While the neo-Nazis have no hope of any victories in society at large. They can only maybe pretend to have achieved a victory – like maybe staging ademonstration is a victory.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  189. Supremos planned another gig in Lexington Ky. McConnell grabs their facemask.

    Ben burn (05b387)

  190. Regarding Venezuela, I read this:

    Some people have resorted to mining bitcoins, because it is about the only way to make money in Venezuela. Bit coiunds are expensive to “mine” because they require a lot of electricity but electricity but electricity is very cheap in Venezuela because it is subsidized, and probably also inflation isn’t catching up with the charges. Bit coins can be used to buy food.

    But Maduro and company noticed this, however, and so they started to crack down, like anything else that lets people make a living in Venezuela. Mining bit coins is not against any law in Venezuela, but people are arrested on trumped up charges – maybe improper use of electricity. Sometimes the police then continue to mine bit coins using the equipment they confiscated.

    Now some people are resorting to mining “Ether” which is not quite as profitable as bitcoin, but uses less equipment and with which authrorities are less familiar with.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  191. Sammeh there is no food , no toilet paper, even if you have the money, they are that (reacted)

    narciso (d1f714)

  192. I have two stories about Chalottsville from Aritz Seven,.

    One is people menacing a synagogue on Saturday.

    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/234003?

    The head of the Beth Israel congregation in Charlottesville, Alan Zimmerman, wrote in his column on his community’s experience with the neo-Nazi demonstrations in his city.

    “On Saturday morning, I stood outside our synagogue with the armed security guard we hired after the police department refused to provide us with an officer during morning services. (Even the police department’s limited promise of an observer near our building was not kept — and note, we did not ask for protection of our property, only our people as they worshipped).

    “Forty congregants were inside. Here’s what I witnessed during that time.

    “For half an hour, three men dressed in fatigues and armed with semi-automatic rifles stood across the street from the temple. Had they tried to enter, I don’t know what I could have done to stop them, but I couldn’t take my eyes off them, either. Perhaps the presence of our armed guard deterred them. Perhaps their presence was just a coincidence, and I’m paranoid. I don’t know.

    “Several times, parades of Nazis passed our building, shouting, ‘There’s the synagogue!’ followed by chants of ‘Seig Heil’ and other anti-Semitic language. Some carried flags with swastikas and other Nazi symbols.

    “A guy in a white polo shirt walked by the synagogue a few times, arousing suspicion. Was he casing the building, or trying to build up courage to commit a crime? We didn’t know. Later, I noticed that the man accused in the automobile terror attack wore the same polo shirt as the man who kept walking by our synagogue; apparently it’s the uniform of a white supremacist group. Even now, that gives me a chill.

    “When services ended, my heart broke as I advised congregants that it would be safer to leave the temple through the back entrance rather than through the front, and to please go in groups.

    “Soon, we learned that Nazi websites had posted a call to burn our synagogue. I sat with one of our rabbis and wondered whether we should go back to the temple to protect the building. What could I do if I were there? Fortunately, it was just talk – but we had already deemed such an attack within the realm of possibilities, taking the precautionary step of removing our Torahs, including a Holocaust scroll, from the premises.

    “At the end of the day, we felt we had no choice but to cancel a Havdalah service at a congregant’s home. It had been announced on a public Facebook page, and we were fearful that Nazi elements might be aware of the event. Again, we sought police protection – not a battalion of police, just a single officer – but we were told simply to cancel the event.

    “Local police faced an unprecedented problem that day, but make no mistake, Jews are a specific target of these groups, and despite nods of understanding from officials about our concerns – and despite the fact that the mayor himself is Jewish – we were left to our own devices. The fact that a calamity did not befall the Jewish community of Charlottesville on Saturday was not thanks to our politicians, our police, or even our own efforts, but to the grace of God.”

    Zimmerman writes, “We will get back to normal, also. We have two b’nai mitzvah coming up, and soon, Rosh HaShanah and Yom Kippur will be upon us, too.”

    He relates: “A frail, elderly woman approached me Saturday morning as I stood on the steps in front of our sanctuary, crying, to tell me that while she was Roman Catholic, she wanted to stay and watch over the synagogue with us. At one point, she asked, ‘Why do they hate you?’ I had no answer to the question we’ve been asking ourselves for thousands of years.”

    The answer to why they hate is plagiarism – leaders of such group have very little imagination.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  193. The second story is about someone saying what is going on:

    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/234004

    Republicans Overseas Israel Chairman attorney Marc Zell attacked the media and the leftist American organizations which are attempting to bring down US President Donald Trump.

    In an interview with Arutz Sheva, Zell said, “I hate the Nazis, they should burn in hell with the KKK and all these anti-Semitic and racist groups.”

    “But those guys went in and they applied for a permit with the city and the city turned them down. They turned to the federal court…and got an order that required the city to let them march.

    “And when that happened there was a call to the public…to come in masses and they did. they vastly outnumber the Nazis. they came for one thing, to have a head-on collision, a violent head-on collision, and that’s what happened.

    “Donald Trump called it straight – there’s no side that has a monopoly on righteousness or violence. That’s the message, that’s what the president said. He’s to be commended for it, I’m behind him.

    “The people who organized the counter demonstration, that had no permits, no legitimacy, they were out to cause havoc – and they did.”

    Do these people have funding from somewhere? According to Zell, the answer is yes – and one of the many sources of funding leftist organizations is George Soros.

    Zell believes that the real goal of all this violence is to bring down Trump.

    “They have one goal – to de-legitimize President Trump and his administration and to bring them down,” he explained. “If they can’t do it through Russia collusion or North Korea or something else, they’re going to do it through this Nazi canard.”

    In a Hebrew interview with Arutz Sheva, Zell emphasized that the idea isn’t new.

    “It’s part of an organized plan since the eighth of November to slander, to embarrass, and to bring down the US President,” he said.

    “If you don’t like a statue we can talk about it. But this kind of thing, where it ends up in violence and death and injuries – that is not the American way, and it has to stop.”

    On Tuesday, Trump himself said, “Not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me. Not all of those people were white supremacists by any stretch.”

    “What about the alt-left that came charging at, as you say, at the alt-right? Do they have any semblance of guilt?

    “You had a group on one side that was bad. You had a group on the other side that was also very violent. Nobody wants to say that.”

    Trump may have ranked them the wrong way in terms of evil. In terms of effectiveness it’s reversed.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  194. 198. narciso (d1f714) — 8/16/2017 @ 8:45 am

    Sammeh there is no food , no toilet paper, even if you have the money, they are that (reacted)

    People can order online with bitcoins, and there are some Florida companies that will ship. Probably they have to order in some amounts to avoid confiscation.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/09/big-in-venezuela/534177/

    A person running several bitcoin miners can clear $500 a month. That’s a small fortune in Venezuela today, enough to feed a family of four and purchase vital goods—baby diapers, say, or insulin—online. (Most web retailers don’t ship directly to Venezuela, but some Florida-based delivery services do.)

    See also: (from May maybe before the crackdown)

    https://news.bitcoin.com/bitcoin-helps-venezuelan-families-avoid-starvation/

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  195. Looking at comments from lickspittle Trump blogs. Dissidents rising like sap.

    Encouraging sign there is less tolerance for bile.

    Ben burn (05b387)

  196. I see they’re having a memorial service for the dead communist protestor in Charlottesville. When they a finished tearing down all the statues and monuments of our history will the book burning finally begin?

    Rev.Hoagie® (630eca)

  197. Well. There are none of the essentials in that country, but Tommy boy imagine a Commie Ralph kramden.
    Diesnt want anyone to enjoy such luxuries

    narciso (d1f714)

  198. The Antifa peole are (falsely) self-righteous, but the opposite side doesn’t believe in right and wrong.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  199. 203. She wasn’t a Communist protester. She used to read things and cry over them. She was a whigh school graduate and went to work for a law firm with no experience based on a personal recommendation. She worked as a paralegal in bankruptcy and didn’t want to take off time because she so much wanted to save people from losing tgheir homes through foreclosure.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  200. Jonah has an excellent article today on NRO:

    Whatever its status at the White House, the alt-right thinks it will replace the traditional Right. It won’t, for the simple reason that the vast, overwhelming majority of conservatives are patriotic and decent, just like Americans generally. They don’t want anything to do with people who want to overthrow the Constitution and set up racial Bantustans.

    No, the real threat to traditional conservatism is the mindset that made it possible to form even a theoretical alliance with the alt-right in the first place: the idea that winning and fighting are self-justifying.

    Over the last decade, many on the right have convinced themselves that the real problem with conservatism is a lack of will. They admiringly quote left-wing activist Saul Alinsky and claim that “we” have to be like “them” by doing whatever is necessary to “win.”

    Read the whole thing…

    Dave (445e97)

  201. Yes therein lies the tragedy, innocent people like heather get caught in the crossfire.

    narciso (d1f714)

  202. But conservatives co-opted Alinskys playbook Dave, stole thunder like Clinton did Welfare Reform.

    Ben burn (05b387)

  203. Sammy, stop jabbing your pointy facts at Hoagie’s narrative bubble.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  204. Dave is right that the majority of conservatives are decent people. They are showing up every day.

    Ben burn (05b387)

  205. Perhaps our advanced development as human beans will assist us to avoid repeating a bloody reenactment that cost hundreds of thousands of lives.

    Ben burn (05b387)

  206. http://althouse.blogspot.com/2017/08/remember-that-donald-trump-destroyed.html

    “In 1979, when he was a relatively unknown New York real estate developer (the mind boggles), a 33-year-old Trump acquired the historic Art Deco Bonwit Teller building, only to demolish it a year later to build what would become Trump Tower. He promised, however, to save two 15-foot-high bas-relief panels that adorned the Teller building and donate them to the Metropolitan Museum of Art should he be able to remove them. Despite his word, the ‘pieces that had been sought with enthusiasm by the Metropolitan Museum of Art…were smashed by jackhammers yesterday on the orders of a real estate developer,’ as the New York Times report from the time tells it.”

    trump told Vanity Fair around a decade later

    Who cares? Let’s say that I had given that junk to the Met. They would have just put them in their basement. I’ll never have the goodwill of the Establishment, the tastemakers of New York. Do you think, if I failed, these guys in New York would be unhappy? They would be thrilled! Because they have never tried anything on the scale that I am trying things in this city. I don’t care about their goodwill.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  207. Trump never said he himself actually favored preserving statues of Robert E Lee.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  208. Alinsky/conservative Google

    https://www.google.com/search?q=alinsky+conservative+strategy&oq=alinsky+conservative+strategy&aqs=chrome..69i57.13933j0j4&client=ms-android-verizon&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

    Ben burn (05b387)

  209. 210.Sammy, stop jabbing your pointy facts at Hoagie’s narrative bubble.

    I’m sorry Leviticus, did I once again step on a commie’s toes? This woman may very well have been a unicorn loving house saver but she was illegally counter protesting with a group of communists. Maybe she thought she was in line for a Dairy Queen but I think the idiot knew exactly what she was doing and exactly who she was with. Or are the Nazis bad and the commies good all of a sudden?

    “Counter protestors”

    https://kakistocracyblog.files.wordpress.com/2017/08/img_0489.jpg?w=700&h=394

    https://kakistocracyblog.files.wordpress.com/2017/08/img_0493.jpg?w=700&h=367

    Rev.Hoagie® (630eca)

  210. White supremacist fa&&ots should not kill Commie paralegals even if Commie paralegals are counter-protesting paralegally. Commies bad does not make Nazis good just like Nazis bad does not make Commies good.

    nk (dbc370)

  211. I thought we settled that at Yalta.

    nk (dbc370)

  212. “Paralegally”. With “para” as in paramilitary. I’m inclined to believe the conspiracy theory that the authorities welcomed Antifa to start trouble that would lead to the white supremacist protest being shut down.

    nk (dbc370)

  213. The protesters were there illegally. The communist front group “Peoples Action For Racial Justice” was not supposed to be near the Unite-the-Right rally and instead sent in Antifa thugs.

    Do you believe if one of the Nazi’s was run over by an antifa commie there would be all this hoopla? Meh.

    The left has you and all the media concentrating on a few Nazis when there are hundreds of thousands of communists active in this country. S stated at Moonbattery:

    Most everyone can agree that we don’t like Nazis. But what exactly is a Nazi? Is a white supremacist a Nazi? Is someone who doesn’t think Southern heritage should be erased a white supremacist? How about someone who thinks that hiring should be based on merit instead of Affirmative Action?

    In the name of fighting Nazis/white supremacists, “antifascist” fascists — and the local governments that eagerly pander to them — are destroying Civil War memorials right and left. The war of extermination against Nazis, racists, white nationalists, et cetera is so indiscriminate, statues of Joan of Arc and even Abraham Lincoln have been attacked.

    Right now here in Philadelphia the BLM and antifa coalition (yes, they collude) are demanding the statue of former mayor Frank Rizzo be removed and destroyed. Returning from U of P hospital yesterday June and I saw a few protesters on Chestnut Street with signs demanding the removal of the statue of George Washington from in front of Independence hall because he was a “white supremacist and slaver”.

    So my “narrative” remains: When do they start burning books?

    Rev.Hoagie® (630eca)

  214. So my “narrative” remains: When do they start burning books?

    The Nazis? Based on history they could start at any time.

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  215. Longtime Clinton crony and Governor of Virginia, Terry McAuliffe, conspired with Charlottesville police and Antifa to set the stage for violence. They have blood on their hands.

    The police barricades were designed to allow only two exits from the park, both on the South side and into the waiting throngs of well armed Antifa thugs. Both exits inevitably funneled the two hostile sides into direct confrontation and resulted in equally predictable violent mayhem.

    The police ignored a safe escape route to the protected North side of the park, in the opposit direction from the waiting Antifa thugs, which is proof enough the police orchestrated the bloody confrontation by arranging to pit the two sides together in confined combat.

    This is yet another example of how the new Left operates: what they hate is what they have become.

    ropelight (072508)

  216. apropos of nothing, I read up of Constantine’s predecessor, back in the premetaxas days:

    http://www.wow.com/wiki/Panagis_Tsaldaris

    narciso (d1f714)

  217. @33 & 35 (e.g.,) Well there you are, DCSCA – and I’m just an over-cautious old granny:

    Amid C.E.O. Exodus, Trump Disbands Top Business Panels 2:24 PM ET NYT

    Q! (267694)

  218. @225. LOLOLOLOL so he quit them?!

    It’s such bad press to try to quit something that no longer exists.

    That would be ‘fake news.’

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  219. Panama has been remarkably peaceful, and almost amazingly prosperous, since the U.S. removed Manuel Noriega from power with an invasion in 1989.

    gahrie (d51b5b)

  220. President Trump helped develop a nice property in Panama City

    it looks like a sailboat!

    yay President Trump!

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  221. Up to a point, thhos party got into poerr, but has been placed by center right candidates on two recent occasions, moscoso an mattineli, but a funny thing happened, martinelli who was anti Castro and Chavez was replaced by varela who is decidedly not and they fizzed an indictment against him.

    narciso (d1f714)

  222. narciso @231. What country are you talking about? Panama?

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)


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