Patterico's Pontifications

7/19/2017

This Means WAR: The ObamaCare Betrayal by Senators Capito and Murkowski Can Never Be Forgotten or Forgiven

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 5:00 am

As I mentioned yesterday, I am astounded that so many people want to blame the GOP’s failure to repeal ObamaCare on those who are least to blame: folks like Rand Paul and Mike Lee. As I said, the real villains are the people who voted for the ObamaCare (partial) repeal bill in 2015 — but oppose it today.

Well, Mitch McConnell will soon call for a vote on a reanimated version of that same bill. And now we’re starting to learn who the scoundrels really are.

At the top of the list of giant hypocrites, you’ll find Senators Shelly Moore Capito of West Virginia and Lisa Murkowski of Alaska — who have both declared their intention to vote against the ObamaCare repeal bill that they both voted for in 2015. As Phil Kerpen said:

They have no excuse for this, and their betrayal will save ObamaCare.

This means war.

Capito and Murkowski are the most worthless type of hypocrites imaginable. They have postured as being against Obamacare, but they never really were. They voted in favor of the (partial) repeal in 2015 — and yet they claim they cannot vote for the same bill today, in 2017.

What is the difference between 2015 and 2017? Yesterday afternoon I sent emails to the press offices of Senators Capito and Murkowski, asking them why they would choose not to vote for the exact same bill they voted for in 2015. I received no response from Senator Capito, and a canned statement from Senator Murkowski that does not remotely begin to address the questions I had asked.

So what is the difference between 2015 and 2017? I’ll tell you what the difference is. The difference is that today, in 2017, we have a president who would sign that repeal bill into law. In 2015, we did not.

Senators Capito and Murkowski knew this. They lied to their voters, straight up.

Now: we all know that there are surely plenty of other cowards hiding behind the skirts of these two senators. (Hi, Rob Portman!) I suspect that Capito and Murkowski were chosen to be the primary fall guys (or fall gals, as it happens) because they’re not up for reelection for four years (in the case of Capito) and six years (in the case of Murkowski). I think the GOP establishment is hoping that you will forget about their treachery in the intervening four to six years.

I, for one, am not going to forget. I will never forget.

I hereby pledge to donate money to the strongest conservative challenger willing to primary either of these senators on the basis of their refusal to vote to repeal Obamacare. I don’t care if I have to wait until 2020 or 2022, I am doing it. And I will vocally support that person against these Senators, and do everything I can to see that these women are unseated.

So if there are others, why pick on Capito and Murkowski? Oh, I’m willing to do the same for anyone who votes against the repeal bill. We just don’t know who they are yet. But yes, I am focused on these two senators, because they are the ones who came out against the bill first, and will give political cover for others to do the same. We have to make an example out of somebody, so we might as well start with them — pour encourager les autres.

So here’s what we do. We primary them. We never, ever forget this betrayal. This goes for anybody else who votes against having this legislation going forward. All of them get the same treatment. No more donations for any of the turncoats. If they appear on the radio, we call in and rip them to shreds for this vote. We confront them wherever and whenever we can. We pull out all the stops.

Some, I expect, will go further. Some will simply stop voting for the GOP or donating money to the GOP. If you choose to go that route, I suggest you tell them exactly why.

One final point: some of you may be asking: why am I not screaming at Susan Collins? Am I mad at Susan and Collins? Well, sure. Of course I’m mad at Susan Collins — for being a complete economic nincompoop who is furthering a disastrous socialistic healthcare regime that is going to drive health care costs into the stratosphere and bankrupt middle America. But she didn’t vote for the 2015 bill. She didn’t pretend to be for repeal when it didn’t matter. (If you want a full list of who did vote for the bill in 2015, together with an analysis of who is still in the Senate today, I did that work for you here.)

Yes, Susan Collins might be an economic illiterate and the functional equivalent of a Democrat. But Susan Collins didn’t lie to her voters with her 2015 vote. Capito and Murkowski did. Capito and Murkowsi lied. They lied — and they must pay the price for lying.

I can’t make them pay a political price by myself. You have to join me. So I ask you:

Who’s with me?

[Cross-posted at RedState and The Jury Talks Back.]

236 Responses to “This Means WAR: The ObamaCare Betrayal by Senators Capito and Murkowski Can Never Be Forgotten or Forgiven”

  1. Curious about our host’s reaction to this:

    http://www.nationalreview.com/article/449622/rand-paul-health-care-republican-plans-repeal-replace-obamacare-principles-self-interest-ron-paul

    I see that Obamacare repeal getting exactly 49 votes, with the 3 NAYS being folks who wont be facing election for 4 or 6 years.

    Appalled (96665e)

  2. they’re filthy low-class pigs

    they need to pay for being so filthy

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  3. Remember, Senatrix Murkowski was defeated in the 2010 Republican primary by TEA party candidate Joe Miller. She then conducted only the second successful Senate write-in campaign, and won the general election.

    The historian Dana (28d8ee)

  4. None of the Republican plans have been anything more than Obaminablecare Lite, because there are only so many ways you can utilize the private, for-profit insurance system to force coverage for everybody.

    The plain fact is that about half of Republicans — including me — objects to Obysmalcare not due to the way in which it attempts to provide insurance coverage for everyone, but that the government is trying to provide health care coverage for those who cannot or will not pay for it themselves in the first place. The problem is that the other half of Republicans might hate Obumblecare but agree with the cockamamie notion that the government should be responsible for providing health care coverage, and the GOP’s electoral advantage depends in part on a significant number of people who would lose health insurance or Medicaid if the current law is repealed.

    There are only two significant ways to change the laughably-named Affordable Care Act: either total repeal, with no replacement, or single-payer. Every Republican congressman and Senator knows that voting for repeal only will take away health care coverage from some of the voters who put them in office.

    Conservatism lost when Mitt Romney was defeated in 2012. The ACA had been passed, but still wasn’t in force at that point, so it could have been repealed without actually taking anything away from anybody. The option to return to the government not guaranteeing health care died in that election, and the realistic person needs to admit that.

    I’ve said it many times before: he ACA was never meant to actually work, but was simply meant to pass, in order to establish the principle that the federal government was ultimately responsible for seeing to it everyone had access to health care. That principle has been established, and it won’t be repealed.

    The coldly realistic Dana (28d8ee)

  5. Conservatism lost when Mitt Romney was defeated in 2012.

    no it lost when harvardtrash pervert John Roberts whimsically defiled our useless Constitution for to appease a few editorial boards

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  6. happyfeet:

    Y’all wanted Obamacare thrown out on a technicality, so your party wouldn’t have to do the hard work of mounting an etlectoral campaign to end Obamacare. Why are you mad that the Supreme Court deferred to the legislature (something they should really do more often)?

    Appalled (96665e)

  7. If the Democrats were smart — and they aren’t stupid — they would put together a single-payer plan, and submit it as legislation. Senator Bernie Sanders (S-VT) plan to extend Medicare to everybody is pretty much ready to go, and it would take only three Republican senators to go along with it to get it through the Senate. Count on Senators Murkowski, Collins, Portman, Graham and McCain to co-sponsor the legislation.

    If it passed the Senate and went to the House, it would face more problems, but if limited there to only citizens and legal residents, and excluded elective treatment such as abortion and ‘gender reassignment’ treatment, it might well pass the House. If a single-payer bill made it to President Trump’s desk, he would sign it.

    I hate single-payer, I despise single-payer, I abominate single-payer, but I’m realistic enough to know that it’s coming. The Republicans’ best option is to seize the policy as their own. They’ve f(ornicated) up everything else on the ACA repeal so badly that single-payer is the only real way they can gain the initiative.

    The politician Dana (28d8ee)

  8. single payer no thank you

    we’ll all die in filthy government hospitals

    what do i look like some kind of military veteran

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  9. Mr Feet wrote:

    no it lost when harvardtrash pervert John Roberts whimsically defiled our useless Constitution for to appease a few editorial boards

    How, by declaring that a tax really was a tax, and thus within the power of Congress to impose?

    Had the Chief Justice voted against the individual mandate, the ACA would have collapsed faster – and it’s going to collapse — because the other parts, such as the requirement that insurance companies cannot refuse to sell policies to people with existing conditions, would have remained in place.

    The sadly realistic Dana (28d8ee)

  10. Veruca Salt’s gorgon visage, is disturbing, as is her penchant for a sales tax for alsaska,. Ms. Caputo what is she good exactly, (paraphrasing Edwin starr) the best choice was raese back in 2012

    narciso (d1f714)

  11. Riddle me this: How many of the 49 who are going to vote for repeal are doing it because they know Capito, Murkowski and Portman are going to vote against? The exact same way they voted for repeal in 2015 knowing Obama would veto it. In other words, staged theater by the entire Senate GOP caucus, with Capito, Murkowski and Portman cast as the villains (or tragic heroes depending on your point of view).

    You really take “those people” at face value?

    nk (dbc370)

  12. She had to fill the plutocrat seat vacated by Jay Rock.

    Single payer if it’s inevitable, must come only as a dividend, well into the future, of a much more restrictive immigration, much stingier welfare/good stamp, much more protective of native industries, and much more hard on domestic street crime landscape. In some ways a surrender may embolden the current admistration to Take it to eleventy on the other platform planks.

    urbanleftbehind (cdc82b)

  13. They Lied? How many should die?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  14. It IS inevitable, urban.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  15. That’s like swallowing a face hugger, yes veruca inspired all sort of hr giger visions. Look at charlie gard anx say thats the answer

    narciso (8b8c31)

  16. BEING LIBERTARIAN

    “America is one of the only countries where consumers can’t buy pills, products or services from other nations. An American patient can’t fly in a doctor from another nation to get a cold pill from Canada under current law. Laws that stifle international trade is likely the single largest reason for the high cost in medicine. If doctors and nurses from other nations could practice medicine here and if pharmaceutical companies had to compete with the rest of the world, the price of drugs, services and more would go down rapidly. This is a basic fact both the right and left are bribed to not ever mention. It’s something I could see even Bernie Sanders hanging out with Milton Friedman and saying it’s a good idea, but with Pelosi and Ryan in power, it’s never going to get mentioned.”

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  17. Hard to believe this was in March.

    ““Together we’re going to deliver real change that once again puts Americans first,” Trump said at an October rally in Florida. “That begins with immediately repealing and replacing the disaster known as Obamacare…You’re going to have such great health care, at a tiny fraction of the cost—and it’s going to be so easy.”

    Trump also argued on the campaign trail that electing a Republican-controlled Congress would allow him to quickly dismantle the health care law and pass other pieces of legislation. “With a Republican House and Senate, we will immediately repeal and replace the disaster known as Obamacare,” Trump said at another event. “A Republican House and Senate can swiftly enact the other items in my contract immediately, including massive tax reduction.”

    “We will [repeal and replace Obamacare], and we will do it very, very quickly,” Trump said during the final week of the campaign. “It is a catastrophe.”

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  18. He does realize we have 11 times canadas population, no country is,larger than 1/5 of ours?

    narciso (55a2c4)

  19. ‘Cause God forbid that we provide healthcare to people, especially women and children. How dare us! We can’t be like Israel or our mother country, England, ’cause they’re wussies and we’re stiff-upper-lip rednecks cowboys and we’re fine with watching people grovel for their healthcare and go into bankruptcy. We can’t be like other, civilized countries! Get real!

    Tillman (a95660)

  20. Every man, woman and child for themselves!!

    Let them eat fake! healthcare.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  21. I understand your frustration and anger at the mushy three but McConnell, Ryan and their leadership teams are the problem. They argued repeatedly that majority rule by leadership drafted must-pass legislation was an assault on our democratic republic and the reason for the heightened partisan fight to the death of every piece of major legislation under the reign of Pelosi, Reid and Obama.

    So what’s the difference now? Where is the return to regular order they promised would return with republican majorities in the House and Senate? What have they done with the majority we gave them? Logrolling and pork barrel buyoffs that everybody hates didn’t go away by abandoning the normal legislative process they’re just run out of the speaker/leader’s office instead of the cloakroom.

    McConnell is infamous for keeping his cards close to his vest. We don’t know what his ultimate objective is but you can be sure he’s hiding it by pushing the dissenters to the front by pushing a bill he’s told us for months couldn’t pass. Is he trying to pass it or prove it can’t pass? I believe the latter. What comes next is unknown but it won’t be friendly to limited government free market principles or he’d be showing it to us.

    crazy (11d38b)

  22. Some would remark that doctors and nurses are already here in triplicate. The requirement borne by entitlement programs, not just Medic-are/-aid but also good stamps and WIC, to service the domestic (and later same-hemisphere) poor, not colonial legacy as in Britain and France, could be the biggest contributor to radical Islamic terrorism taking root here. Those programs created a need from doctors on down to grocery store and lower end hospitality to have personnel where domestically educated and otherwise had no interest.

    urbanleftbehind (cdc82b)

  23. Hobbes had republicans in mind for brutish Leviathan public welfare.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  24. Sorry to keep revisiting the PREAMBLE but it does have a key thought about this subject.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  25. @22 A well-intentioned safety net for the few becomes a spider web for the ambitious and a hammock for the rest.

    crazy (11d38b)

  26. Whistling through Graveyard Club.

    A Cameo With Jane Austen
    Kathleen Flynn of the NY Times talks about Jane Austen. All very interesting, especially because of the star turn taken briefly and anonymously by a JOM commenter:

    We learned that many scholars were tackling the analytics of Austen. A team at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln had, among other feats, cataloged the use of free indirect discourse in the entire corpus of her work. And txtLAB, at McGill University, had mapped her novels along with those of other female 19th-century novelists “on a sliding scale of sociability vs. interiority.”

    That prompted “Catsmeat” to take a bow at 6:08 PM. The permalink is glitching for me so here goes:

    Totally off-topic on a day when we’re all really mad, but still–my austen.unl.edu datamining site on Austen’s free indirect discourse got a mention today in the NYT in a piece on new computational approaches to Austen–doesn’t name me, but just a “team at the University of Nebraska,” but I do happen to be the PI (and motive force and chief sufferer when it came to figuring out all the FID in each novel).

    So there you have it – JustOneMinute bracing for the future while peering into the past.

    Posted by Tom Maguire on July 19, 2017 | Permalink

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  27. McConnell is the respectful sort who would not be caught in the holla after dark, the Canadian mob was one of the more amusing elements of justified.

    narciso (55a2c4)

  28. Burnie and our other resident leftist really want to enslave the American people. They just want more slaves.

    NJRob (7f4bec)

  29. Yeah we’re Southern Democrat Kleagles, Nutjob. Fascists and liberals hard to identify under those hoods. Lol.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  30. Nick Hanuer..

    “Don’t say I didn’t warn you. And don’t console yourself for a minute that in electing a fellow plutocrat, our side won. President Trump isn’t on any side but his own. And his strategy to make America great again by bringing back an old industrial economy that no longer exists is as substantive as his early morning tweets about Cable news hosts. After his trickle-down policies—like ripping away heath care from tens of millions of Americans so plutocrats like us can get giant tax cuts, or just enacting giant tax cuts for us, and calling it tax reform—inevitably exacerbate the already extreme inequality that helped sweep him into office, those pitchforks will be angrier than ever.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  31. The KKK was a Democrat organization. Glad you finally admitted it. I see you are still ticked off that the Republican Lincoln freed the slaves.

    NJRob (7f4bec)

  32. Taboo painted a very dark picture of regency England, for much of that period the UK almost singlehandedly was,fighting an insugent revolutionary power, the Spanish were putting up some resistance as with the Austrians but on balance.

    narciso (d1f714)

  33. Do you believe health care is a right,” Matthews asked quizzically.

    Burgess replied, “I told you. It’s a responsibility.”

    And that launched one of the most contemptible moments I’ve seen on cable television ever.

    Matthews: “No. Is it a right like life or is it a right like the right to bear arms or a right in the Bill of Rights? Do you have a right to health care provided by the federal government?”

    Stupid framing, Chris. The federal government is regulating the healthcare delivery system, not providing healthcare. But it set up the question for Burgess well.

    Burgess answered, “You have a right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.”

    Matthews: “Not health?”

    Burgess: “I’m a physician. If someone has a right, that means you take my skills and the fruits of my labor. That is what you’re telling me.”

    Matthews: “I’m just asking. I’m not telling you anything. I want to know where you stand.”

    Burgess: “I told you where I stand. It is a responsibility that people have to have the provision for taking care of their health and their family’s health.”

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  34. Nutjob: Here I thought Whigs and Know-Nothings were extinct and there you are!

    You do know Republicans were the liberals of 19th century?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  35. Curious about our host’s reaction to this:

    http://www.nationalreview.com/article/449622/rand-paul-health-care-republican-plans-repeal-replace-obamacare-principles-self-interest-ron-paul

    I like Jonah, but I just got through taking him to task over this. He does not mention the real turncoats Capito and Murkowski once.

    Everybody has decided we must blame Rand Paul and Mike Lee, almost the only people who actually care about genuinely repealing ObamaCare, rather than the show vote we had in 2015 or the fake repeal they tried to foist on us in 2017.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  36. I don’t blame them…I blame Trump, patterico.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  37. Riddle me this: How many of the 49 who are going to vote for repeal are doing it because they know Capito, Murkowski and Portman are going to vote against?

    Nope. I said as much in the post. But we can’t know who they are, because of the cover they are getting from Capito and Murkowski. So we make an example of the ones whose names we know.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  38. Heh. When someone changes Party, do their spots change?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  39. Of course, there’s only so much blame the elected officials deserve.

    The American elecorate is ignorant about econpmics and loves free goodies. They are driving this.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  40. Are labels a reliable guide to behavior? Enquiring minds…

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  41. Riddle me this: How many of the 49 who are going to vote for repeal are doing it because they know Capito, Murkowski and Portman are going to vote against? The exact same way they voted for repeal in 2015 knowing Obama would veto it. In other words, staged theater by the entire Senate GOP caucus, with Capito, Murkowski and Portman cast as the villains (or tragic heroes depending on your point of view).

    You really take “those people” at face value?

    nk (dbc370) — 7/19/2017 @ 6:32 am

    Winner Winner Chicken Dinner

    The 49 who vote to repeal do so in the comforting knowledge that once again they won’t have to be responsible for the aftermath of what such a vote would actually mean because they know it won’t pass.

    Kabuki Theater.

    shipwreckedcrew (39d859)

  42. They also know that physical health is essential to the pursuit of happiness.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  43. I don’t blame them…I blame Trump, patterico.

    First, that’s mostly wrong — not that he couldn’t be better, but this is on the Senate right now.

    Second, you’re against ObamaCare? Really?

    Patterico (115b1f)

  44. Now we need watchdogs to insure no more sabotage of ACA to hasten demise.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  45. A well-intentioned safety net for the few becomes a spider web for the ambitious and a hammock for the rest.

    Did you make that up? Because that’s really, really good.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  46. It’s a halfmeasure, Patterico. And Trumps lack of leadership, confused messaging led to defeat.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  47. In 2013 Trump said the buck ( leadership) stops at WH.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  48. “Hoo cudda knowed health insurance was so complicated?”

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  49. It was designed to fail, that was the pledge Obama made in 2007, that won him the Iowa promary.

    narciso (d1f714)

  50. The American elecorate is ignorant about econpmics and loves free goodies.

    Who’s getting the goodies now are health care providers who are all to often getting away with highway robbery. Republicans seem to be perfectly fine with that, and that’s why we’re in this predicament in the first place.

    As I keep mentioning, capitalism has proven that it doesn’t work in medicine for a whole host of reasons. Who price shops while having a heart attack? Moreover, my wife says that she no longer goes to Minor Medical facilities because they won’t tell her or won’t tell the truth about whether their doctors are in network or not. It’s a scam.

    Tillman (a95660)

  51. The thread of consistency is stable. Human nature makes free healthcare abusive because they have no incentive to NOT seek attention for minor things like abdominal pain..freebies…heh.

    Now free trade and human nature…well we’ll just have to overlook those shenanigans becuz, you know. BIZNESS

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  52. There is some middle ground here. Make people have some “skin in the game.” Charge for every service and prescription. Just don’t go nuts with greed and cause them to go bankrupt. Is that too much to ask?

    Tillman (a95660)

  53. Ben is the sort that actually thought corbyn won, he also apparently thinks anarchists have won at any time in recent history, as if iron heel, was never writtem

    narciso (d1f714)

  54. Why do conservatives favor property over people?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  55. #50, a judge deciding that Health Care Providers needed to get paid post haste nudged the State of Illinois into finally breaking the budget deadlock 5 days later.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  56. Do you imagine face-lifts and and breast implants will dominate the ledger?

    Uh huh.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  57. i like property cause of it stays where you put it usually plus you can clean it up to where it won’t give you the hepatitis, and sometimes it even appreciates in value (good investment)

    people are ok but obviously they have many flaws

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  58. Patterico, you’re focusing your anger too narrowly.

    From the time Obamacare was first proposed, you’ve been played by the GOP. They needed an issue to act as a banner for partisan political purposes, and the ACA was it. They had no real desire to oppose it on policy grounds. When the TEA party came along, they co-opted that as quickly as they could. Their only real goal was to win elections and keep power in DC. Trump can not oppose them because he needs them more than they need him.

    What’s the evidence they only wanted to use Obamacare for political purposes? This: that they had no plan at all on what to do to replace it agreed among themselves before Trump won. Every antiObamacare vote and speech before November 2016 was made with the knowledge that it was purely for show, with no real world consequences other than making the base happy.

    If I were you, I would start from the assumption that everyone who doesn’t actively support repeal when repeal is a real world option is among the hypocrites. Cruz, Paul, Lee would be the kernel of truth. Assume everyone else is the enemy unless proven otherwise.

    kishnevi (2f2588)

  59. Ben at #23:Hobbes had republicans in mind for brutish Leviathan public welfare.

    Um, so you think the divine right of kings includes Medicare for All?

    Appalled (96665e)

  60. Thanks to “sticky pricing,

    …multiple sclerosis drugs that sell for less than $1,000 per month in the UK now cost about $5,000 for Americans.

    Read the whole, short article: http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/26/opinions/us-health-care-prices-rosenthal-opinion/index.html

    Tillman (a95660)

  61. Who’s getting the goodies now are health care providers who are all to often getting away with highway robbery

    Yeah, those lazy doctors, nurses, technicians, hospital administrators, etc. How dare they desire to have an income comparable to — oh I don’t know — a halfway successful malpractice attorney or a government flunky bureaucrat who manages an Obamacare exchange? They study hard at school — real school where you have to learn math and chemistry and anatomy and physiology and engineering — and then hope to have a lifestyle similar to that of a stevedore at the Port of Los Angeles, or a county clerk in Kankakee? Why the nerve of them!

    JVW (42615e)

  62. Burnie, you’re right. Your ideology doesn’t descend from the traditional Democrat. It descends from the Stalinist and Leninist camp.

    “Starvation and slavery for all… but the ruling class.” That’s Burnie’s motto.

    NJRob (7f4bec)

  63. occasionally they do something right

    https://twitter.com/RMConservative/status/887656723825254400

    narciso (d1f714)

  64. …multiple sclerosis drugs that sell for less than $1,000 per month in the UK now cost about $5,000 for Americans.

    I’ll tell you what: I will oppose drug manufactures colluding with patent attorneys to make it harder for generic drugs to make it to market, if you will oppose personal injury lawyers colluding with government regulators at the FDA to create impossibly high hurdles for new drugs to be tested and approved on the market.

    JVW (42615e)

  65. “They lied to their voters, straight up.”

    You’re sounding a lot like happy – always a good sign.

    During the Obama presidency, Ted Cruz explained to the American people – from the Senate floor, no less – exactly how Republicans vote on bills in such a way that they can claim to be on one side, while actually supporting the other, all in an attempt to deceive their constituents. The GOP leadership in Congress, Cruz demonstrated, facilitated this con.

    On this particular bill, the liars may be with Senators Shelly Moore Capito of West Virginia and Lisa Murkowski of Alaska (I bet there are actually others, who are being sheltered by the GOP leadership), but the problem runs far, far deeper.

    It is precisely this sort of sleaziness that creates Trump voters and allows his existing supporters to dismiss the President’s more superficial shortcomings. They see it as a matter of proportionality, and rightly so.

    ThOR (c9324e)

  66. Great post, Pat.

    ThOR (c9324e)

  67. 50. Let me amend that say “Republicans and Democrats seem to be perfectly fine with that…”

    Both of them are swilling from the same trough on this issue.

    Tillman (a95660)

  68. So getting back to reality, with so many leftists being exposed in the Republican party which will guarantee the left taking over in a few years and passing Governmentally Rationed Healthcare, how long before they steal our 401(k)’s to pay for it?

    NJRob (7f4bec)

  69. perhaps if they extended the time, in which the patents were active, but apparently according to the tpaa, they’ve actually shortened them

    narciso (d1f714)

  70. consideration of the same topic

    https://spectator.org/and-all-for-the-want-of-a-spine/

    it’s much the same with a real or Potemkin brexit across the pond,

    narciso (d1f714)

  71. “Both of them are swilling from the same trough on this issue..”

    EXCELSIOR! Although the barnyard pigs will insist THEY Are more equal than the rest.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  72. Have you a better solution, other than private subsidies for immortality research, appalled?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  73. Btw..getting any respect from JoMers?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  74. I am with you, even though, as I read now, they are somehow stage-managing the debacle so that they will not have to vote at all for repeal. But we can’t let the electorate forget.

    Peaceful revolution is not easy nor quickly won. So I will keep trying even though I may never see the return to our founding principles. It’s worth the fight. That’s what I keep telling myself.

    Patricia (5fc097)

  75. Only a fool believes grandstanding politicians casting a free vote. A repeal of Obamacare without dealing with the fallout to those tax-paying self-employed REPUBLICANS who have had to accept Obamacare as reality for the last 5 years would be irresponsible, a blunder and stupid.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  76. “The thread of consistency is stable. Human nature makes free healthcare abusive because they have no incentive to NOT seek attention for minor things like abdominal pain..freebies…heh.

    Now free trade and human nature…well we’ll just have to overlook those shenanigans becuz, you know. BIZNESS”

    I thought Shirley, they will be incensed at the suggestion….alas, conscience makes cowards of them all.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  77. …how long before they steal our 401(k)’s to pay for it?
    NJRob

    It’s a feature, not a bug. The very idea of having the IRS in charge of your healthcare should have a shiver run up any sane mans spine but for leftists it’s akin to achieving orgasm.

    Rev.Hoagie® (630eca)

  78. riffing off that Spectator link, I’d be interested in knowing if our Texas contingent thinks this is an accurate portrayal

    https://spectator.org/texas-is-reconvening-its-legislature/

    kishnevi (2f2588)

  79. VOX

    The Affordable Care Act was a heavy lift, and there are many who deserve credit for its passage — notably Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid. But I don’t know anyone involved in that effort who thinks it could’ve been done without Obama and his White House.

    The GOP’s repeal-and-replace effort was also a heavy lift, and it’s been done without the productive involvement of Trump and his White House — in fact, Trump often made the process considerably harder.

    The core problem is Trump has no idea what he’s talking about on health care and never bothered to learn. “Nobody knew health care could be so complicated,” he famously, and absurdly, said. His inability to navigate its complexities meant he couldn’t make persuasive arguments on behalf of the bills he supported, and he routinely made statements that undercut the legislative process and forced Republicans to defend the indefensible.

    Trump’s post-election promise of “insurance for everybody” with “much lower deductibles” set up a standard Republicans had no intention of ever meeting but kept having to answer for. At his occasional meetings with wavering members of Congress, he’s made superficial political arguments to people who had deep policy concerns. The discussions left legislators feeling insulted and annoyed that the president hadn’t bothered to do the barest amount of homework.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  80. Trump lacks professionalism…lol.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  81. THE WAR ON FACTS

    “The CBO’s reports on health care made it a target

    The proximate cause for the Republican attacks on the CBO is the agency’s habit of pouring cold water on attempts to repeal and replace the Affordable Care Act. Each and every time the CBO has looked into GOP health legislation, the verdict was damning.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  82. 62. As if only those in the medical profession work and are not bums. You don’t like bums, JVW? Then by all means, suggest the law be written such that we give health care for all, except for bums*. We don’t like bums. That would be better than completely turning a blind eye to the problem anyway. (*Children under the age of 18 can not be classified as bums.)

    Tillman (a95660)

  83. This is yet another indication of the Trump Administration’s political incompetence.

    The WH should have been bashing the Democrats from Day 1 about their obstructionist refusal to consider a better insurance system. They should have been talking about “the impending failure of Obamacare” and the need to replace it with a working free-market system. Trump should ahve been talking about the many many working, tax-paying families that were forced into this failing system and how the Democrats would not own up to their mistakes and help fix it.

    All the folks who had their policies cancelled and now had to deal with cancer, etc with the narrow networks imposed by the ACA should be trotted out and made the face of reform.

    That’s how competent administrations orchestrate a big political change. This one just twits.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  84. So, to do Patterico one better, it’s not Murkowski or Cruz or Collins or Lee. It’s Trump who is WORSE at leading Congress than even Obama. Nothing will work with a troll at the tiller.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  85. Bravo Patterico. Hit the nail squarely on the head.

    Bill Saracino (ad0096)

  86. Cbo projections were only off by 160%,let’s go with them.

    narciso (d1f714)

  87. Trotted out on what media Kevin?

    NJRob (a25531)

  88. To bring a few facts to the table, lets consider how hard this vote — a vote for straight repeal without a replacement ready — is for an elected official who has to face a constituency back home. Not a political constituency, but real people within their states.

    Recall: A key feature of Obamacare was to give states the option to expand Medicaid eligibility to bring more people into the system who are at that time uninsured but did not qualify for Medicaid before Obamacare. For those newly added to the program, the Feds picked up 100% of the cost, rather than just 60% for those already in the system. That subsidy is set to begin to be phased out starting in 2020. The only cost to the states was administering the program with more recipients.

    The stated purpose for doing this was to get uninsured people into some form of “insurance” program so that they could seek health care at clinics and doctors offices, and not in hospital emergency rooms. The providers would bill Medicaid for the services, rather than have hospitals simply eat the cost of treating people who could not pay and didn’t have insurance.

    Medicaid expansion began in 2013.

    Repealing Obamacare would end the 40% subsidy being paid to the states for these additional enrollees. The old compensation rules would now apply if these new enrollees were kept on Medicaid by their states.

    So how many people are we talking about? Lets look at some examples from the states with the “moderates” who are the ones balking at straight repeal:

    Pre-2013 Enrollment v. 2016 enrollment:

    Ohio: 2.16 mil v. 2.8 mil (30% increase)
    W.Va: 350,000 v. 562,000 (59% increase)
    Nev. 352,000 v. 630,000 (89% increase)
    Alask 122,000 v. 187,000 (53% increase)
    Ariz: 1.2 mil v. 1.75 mil (45% increase)

    Lets look at a couple others where the more conservative Sens demanding complete repeal come from:

    Utah: 294,000 v. 306,000 (4% increase)
    Tex: 4.4 mil v. 4.7 mil (7% increase)
    S.Dak 115,000 v. 119,000 (3% increase)

    All these numbers are available from an interactive map on the Medicaid.gov website.

    So I have a bit of a hard time accepting a comment like Sen. Thune made on Hugh Hewitt’s show yesterday when he said

    “Well, it is. It’s a make or break moment, and I think that we need to, each of our members needs to face the music. And we all need to be held accountable for our positions and our votes. And we had, again, a vote a couple of years ago in 2015 where everybody was, had a chance to go on the record on this, and now we’re going to get a chance to actually follow through when it matters.”

    There are a ton of states with GOP Sens who are voting “Yes” on straight repeal when the result back home would be devastating to their home state budgets.

    Lets look at some numbers in Ohio, and what straight repeal would cause to happen:

    Medicaid is the largest source of federal funding that states receive. Changes in Medicaid enrollment and the cost of healthcare can impact state budgets. For instance, in Ohio, the percentage of the state’s budget dedicated to Medicaid rose from 21.3 percent in 2010 to 37.4 percent in 2015.

    During fiscal year 2016, combined federal and state spending for Medicaid in Ohio totaled about $21.74 billion. Spending on Ohio’s Medicaid program increased by about 33 percent between fiscal years 2012 and 2016.

    Most of the increased spending in Ohio is the result of the expanded enrollment. So if you take away the federal subsidy for the expanded enrollment, Ohio is now on the hook for the 33% increase — for a program that already consumes 37% of the entire state’s budget.

    This scenario is repeated across every state that expanded its Medicaid program as a result of Obamacare.

    So, the TRUTH IS THAT THERE ARE A LOT MORE GOP SENATORS THAN JUST MURKOWSKI AND CAPITO WHO WOULD VOTE AGAINST STRAIGHT REPEAL IF THEY DIDN’T HAVE THE COVER OF KNOWING THE VOTE WAS GOING TO FAIL BEFORE IT WAS TAKEN.

    Straight repeal is an unmitigated disaster on the budgets of 30+ states.

    The only way to avoid the budget crisis would be for the Gov. and state legislatures to kick all the new enrollees out of Medicaid.

    That’s a vote-winning strategy — coming right at the time the GOP as a party controls more governorships and state houses than at any time in the history of the country.

    But hey, let’s just insist on ideological purity because its the “right thing to do.”

    I hate Obamacare too, but as I posted yesterday, this fight is lost. Making modifications to the program as it exists is pretty much the best that can be hoped for now.

    shipwreckedcrew (39d859)

  89. How do you defeat leftists with an “R” after their name Kevin?

    Remember how angry the establishment was that Cruz and Lee defeated their cronies. There’s a reason for that anger.

    NJRob (a25531)

  90. Don’t discount the pitchforks at Clownhall shipwreck.

    They value constituent face-time.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  91. I hate Obamacare too, but as I posted yesterday, this fight is lost. Making modifications to the program as it exists is pretty much the best that can be hoped for now.

    The problem is that we then acknowledge that progressivism will always win: government programs are always permanent and can never be closed up, advocates of big government have no responsibility to tell the truth when proposing huge entitlement programs, and whatever the left don’t get this time around they can just come back and demand next year. It won’t happen overnight or even in a few years, but this capitulation ultimately paves the way for single payer in this country.

    JVW (42615e)

  92. Ben at 74:

    Healthcare is very hard as an issue, and all alternatives have downsides. What makes the most sense is government subsidized catostophic care, and people pay for their own regular medical care (or don’t, as they prefer). Really, what insurance is supposed to do is prevent a disaster from ruining somebody. The HMO model of Obabmacare and most Dem favored options encourages overutilization, and then arbitrary health rationing, when a doctor shortage can’t handle the overutilization.

    While I, and you, can have a preferred end state, understand how difficult it is to get from point a to point b. We have been miles froma free market approch to healthcare since the government decided to subsidize employer provided healthcare through the tax code.

    The nice thing about the repeal and don’t replace approach is that, if successful, it forces the Democrats to get into the game to come up with something else, rather than heckle from the sidelines. But it does so at the risk that it all falls apart, and a lot of innocent people get harmed. I sympathize with the Senators who understand the risks, and can’t sign on for that reason, but I don’t respect their hypocracy.

    #75 Opposiition to Trump is not respected or even really understood at the JOM comment section, and it causes them intense pain and anger when I indulge in it. So, mostly, I’m Self-Exiled, because stating my opinions over there is functionally trolling that site.

    Appalled (96665e)

  93. “What makes the most sense is government subsidized catostophic care, and people pay for their own regular medical care (or don’t, as they prefer”

    Preventative care is recognized by the Industry as cost effective and the lack could spike those catastrophic events and attendant costs. If people need eggs and bread the cost of what seems minor for a dr.visit might be shelved for a visit to emergency room.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  94. JVW — I think there are things that can be done on the margins that make Obamacare’s path to single-payer less inevitable, and buy some time while key parts are gutted in a more piece-meal basis.

    I just haven’t figured out what the constituency is that prevents Congress from making health insurance plans marketable nationwide. A huge barrier to holding down the cost of insurance is the fact that the plans have to be offered on a state-by-state basis, with State laws and rules forcing insurers to adapt their plans to the parochial demands of the political powers in those states.

    Congress and Trump could wipe that out by simply passing a law striking down barriers to interstate marketing of insurance plans — the Supremacy Clause and Commerce Clause would sustain that against challenge.

    Allowing portability of insurance coverage between jobs would also be step towards eliminating the “pre-existing conditions” coverage mandate. Many people remain in their job, and lack mobility, because their medical coverage depends on their employment, and if they switch jobs while suffering from a serious medical condition, they risk losing coverage under a new plan. So, someone on long-term drug therapy for AIDS might be hampered in changing jobs if they think a new employer’s insurance plan would exclude coverage for their problem on the basis that its a pre-existing condition.

    If there was insurance portability when moving from job to job, that wouldn’t be an issue and there would be one less reason for the preexisting condition mandate now in the law, which is a huge driver of increased premium and deductible costs.

    There are many other individual tweaks to Obamacare that would begin to steer it away from the path to single-payer which could probably be passed without the kind of controversy now being experienced.

    shipwreckedcrew (39d859)

  95. #98 — Actually, the studies on this are all over the map, and the experience of HMOs was that their catastrophic costs did not go down. It’s much of the reason HMOs disappeared from the marketplace, or converted into PPOs in the years before Obamacare.

    Appalled (96665e)

  96. Appalled: the geeks that populate the JoM drunk tank are equally deplorable…the worst humanity has to offer.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  97. Yes, I know. HMOs need an ROI of 180% using their financial objectives so not cost effective using their avarice index.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  98. This is off-topic, but is a follow-up on a comment I made in another post.

    DRJ faulted Trump for not getting his appointments up to the Senate for confirmation.

    In Thune’s interview with Hugh Hewitt yesterday, he provided some interesting facts on this issue:

    At the same juncture in Obama’s first term, with the Dems in control of the Senate, the GOP had allowed 90% of Obama’s nominees to be confirmed by voice vote. That means no debate on the nominee, no debate. The nomination is brought up, unanimous consent to a voice vote is requested, no objection from the GOP, and the nomination is confirmed by voice vote.

    At this point, only 10% of Trump’s nominees have been confirmed by voice vote allowed by the Dems. You can’t have a voice vote if there is a single objection because it requires unanimous consent to suspend the rule requiring a roll call vote.

    Further, at this point in Obama’s first term, the GOP had attempted only 8 filibusters — meaning the Dems had to invoke cloture and take a vote so limit the time for debate.

    With far fewer nominees actually sent up than was the case 8 years ago, the Dems have already mounted 30 filibuster attempts.

    At the current pace of Senate confirmations, which are being dragged out by Dem stalling tactics, it would take Trump 11 years to get Senate confirmation on all required nominees.

    shipwreckedcrew (39d859)

  99. #101 — Now Ben, you know how much trouble Hillary got into for labelling everyone “deplorables”…

    Appalled (96665e)

  100. “being dragged out by Dem stalling tactics, it would take Trump 11 years to get Senate confirmation on all required nominees.”

    Mirrors banned in Trumpland?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  101. Burning bridges seems like Trumpet delight, appalled. They can dish it out though..

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  102. Preventative care is recognized by the Industry as cost effective and the lack could spike those catastrophic events and attendant costs.

    Bull. That’s what clinics are for.

    If people need eggs and bread the cost of what seems minor for a dr.visit might be shelved for a visit to emergency room.

    So you’re claiming these *people* will choose eggs and bread over a doctor visit. What if they choose cigarettes and booze, should we subsidize that too? How about pot and heroine? After all we don’t want people *shelving* those doctor visits. You sound like those whacko feminists who insist if Planned Parenthood is defunded those same *people* won’t be able to buy a $3 pack of condoms or get $10 worth of birth control pills. Yet they all seem to have X-Box, Cable and the latest cell phones. Go figure.

    Rev.Hoagie® (630eca)

  103. I like some of these GOP conservatives who are sounding like firebrands on this vote — now I’m reading the transcript of Hewitt’s interview with future President Tom Cotton.

    But I still see Kabuki Theater between the lines of his comments:

    Of course, Hugh. I don’t see how any Republican senator who voted just 18 months ago for this very piece of legislation could now flip-flop 18 months on with Obamacare still inflicting so much harm on Americans, and the fact that we campaigned on this for four straight elections. So I’m pleased to see that Senator McConnell, after much hard work trying to craft legislation that could win the votes of 50 senators is now going to return a bill on which again, 49 Republican senators have already voted, and Luther Strange and John Kennedy will vote.

    To me its just so transparent that these guys knew Murkowski and Capito were going to vote no — neither is up for re-election, passing straight repeal would be horrible for their states, and they are pretty safe in their seats. They become the beards giving the rest of the GOP caucus cover to vote Yes.

    Its just not an honest debate.

    I understand why McConnel went behind closed doors to craft his replacement bill. But seeing the disaster that results when leadership just dumps something on the desks of the rest of the Senate and says “Vote”, the right way to do this would be to simply have a couple of bills created through the committee process, so that more hands are involved in the crafting — maybe even a Dem or two that feels a bit at risk in the next cycle.

    Joe Manchin in W.Va. is being given cover by Capito voting no. He’s popular, but is in a deep red state. If Capito was a “yes” on some form of repeal, it would highlight in W.Va. that Manchin is a “no” in line with Schumer and Pelosi.

    Donnelly in Indiana could be put at risk by voting the opposite of Todd Young.

    Same for McCaskill in Missouri and Tester in Montana.

    But they let the Dems completely off the hook by allowing them to sit on the sidelines while the GOP leadership created the bill behind closed doors.

    shipwreckedcrew (39d859)

  104. Rev. Sammich: there’s toilet paper stuck to your shoe.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  105. That’s what clinics are for.

    Which clinics? Public health clinics, by definition, are paid by your taxes.

    Doc in a box or 24 Hour quick service clinics? Their charges are about the same as a regular doctor’s office, or a bit more to allow you to run in with no prior appointment.

    kishnevi (2f2588)

  106. They will go to single payer. And charlie hard is the ghost of Christmas future.

    narciso (d1f714)

  107. Breaking: Trump now *opposes* 2015 repeal-only bill.

    Profiles in leadership:

    “I’ve been here just six months. I am ready to act. I have pen in hand, believe me. I’m sitting in that office. I have pen. in. hand.”

    Dave (711345)

  108. So you’re claiming these *people* will choose eggs and bread over a doctor visit. What if they choose cigarettes and booze, should we subsidize that too? How about pot and heroine? After all we don’t want people *shelving* those doctor visits. You sound like those whacko feminists who insist if Planned Parenthood is defunded those same *people* won’t be able to buy a $3 pack of condoms or get $10 worth of birth control pills. Yet they all seem to have X-Box, Cable and the latest cell phones. Go figure.

    Rev.Hoagie® (630eca) — 7/19/2017 @ 10:22 am

    Dead on. Government welfare and our lack of a real education system has created 2 generations of narcissistic babies who don’t understand the concept of delayed gratification. A pox on their houses for destroying our nation.

    NJRob (a25531)

  109. 111 and 114, how is that fundamentally different than Single-Payer as Dividend from falsely labled “War on POC”?

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  110. I hereby pledge to donate money to the strongest conservative challenger willing to primary either of these senators on the basis of their refusal to vote to repeal Obamacare.

    So here’s what we do. We primary them. We never, ever forget this betrayal. This goes for anybody else who votes against having this legislation going forward. All of them get the same treatment. No more donations for any of the turncoats. If they appear on the radio, we call in and rip them to shreds for this vote. We confront them wherever and whenever we can. We pull out all the stops.

    Pat,

    I’m with you in regards to donating money to “the strongest conservative challenger” to these RINOs and I thank you for being one of the few, the proud, who actually offers a solution to the RINO problem, e.g., primary them all, regardless of their seniority. I think that this is definitely something that’s been needed for a long, long time.

    Here’s the concern from my point of view, though:

    Take the Obamacare clusterflub. It has been utterly exasperating to have to endure the naked RINO-ism of the GOPe but, unfortunately, they’re not alone. It has been astounding the amount of allegedly “conservative” intellectuals and pundits that have pushed for a “compromise” vis-a-vis Obamacare, to include keeping most of it, because (according to them) if the conservatives don’t “fix” Obamacare, the system will collapse, the Republicans will get blamed and lose Congress. Therefore, their “reasoning” goes, the single-payer will be the next logical step to “solving” the problems of socialized medicine that have been created by socialized medicine.

    But if the Republicans can draw up their own plan for socialized medicine, then somehow everything will work swimmingly.

    Good grief. It’s like watching the biggest car wreck in history in slow-motion. It is the living embodiment of Einstein’s truism, “Insanity [is] doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.” We know how it ends — how it always ends, no matter when or where on the planet it’s tried — yet the pols, the pundits and a pile of “conservatives” still think that “somehow” there’s a version of socialized medicine that will, somehow, work this time.

    There’s nothing “logical” about insanity just as there’s nothing “logical” about slavery. As such, you can’t have “conservatives” who think that government control of healthcare is justified. If you do, then you’re merely arguing with the socialists over how much freedom the government should be permitted to take from people. It’s a moral argument that we have to make and we’re not making it.

    Until “conservative” means X — not “most” of X, not “some” X, not X when it’s politically advantageous for re-election — then the “strongest” conservative candidate is not necessarily meaningful.

    I wish you success in your endeavor. We’re gonna need it.

    J.P. (9e0433)

  111. 114. Dave (711345) — 7/19/2017 @ 10:51 am

    Breaking: Trump now *opposes* 2015 repeal-only bill.

    He’s been swinging back and forth on this so much that it’s probasbly easy to figure out where he really stands.

    He’s for this bill, but he doesn’t want it to end there, and believes it would force the Democrats to negotiate, and that if they do not, that McConnell should abolish or limit the filibuster rule so that 60 votes aren’t needed to pass practically anything.

    Trump also believes that even if the bill does not pass he can still create an impossible situation for the Democrats, where doing nothing is intolerable, and he can maybe do that simply by inaction.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  112. And might I suggest this:

    Make it known that not only are you going to primary everyone who doesn’t hold the line on something as crucial as this vote but, should McConnell or Ryan or any of the other RINOs succeed in their primaries, that you will not be voting for them. (You don’t have to vote for the socialist; you just don’t vote for the RINO. It’s almost as bad for the RINO.)

    J.P. (9e0433)

  113. Trotted out on what media Kevin?

    Fox, for a start. Others later if the WH kept at it. W was HATED by the MSM, yet his message generally got out. Palin was DOUBLE-HATED, but everyone knew her position on drilling.

    But it’s been a vacuum of leadership from Trump.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  114. 21. crazy (11d38b) — 7/19/2017 @ 7:01 am

    McConnell is infamous for keeping his cards close to his vest. We don’t know what his ultimate objective is but you can be sure he’s hiding it by pushing the dissenters to the front by pushing a bill he’s told us for months couldn’t pass. Is he trying to pass it or prove it can’t pass? I believe the latter.

    The person he’s trying to prove that to is President Donald Trump, and maybe also some of his advisers, like maybe Mike Pence.

    By the way, nk@11 is right – once the bill is known to be doomed, you can’t read anything into the votes of people who vote for it – they may no more want this to become law than they did on December 3, 2015, and may not even really be willing to go along with this as part of a legislative strategy of chicken.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  115. He’s all over the map. Called it ‘mean with Populist VETO pen in hand, ready to repair his Huey Long fantasy. Blue-collar fake.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  116. 118, Donald Trump might well set himself to become the 21st Century’s version of John Lindsay if he works more closely with Democrats to craft the post-repeal Health Care Bill.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  117. The Dana @4

    I like those terms Obysmalcare and Obumblecare. How come nobody ever came up with that before, or did you get them from somewhere?\

    Theer are alternatives to single-payer, besides total repeal or the status quo (which is actually not viable, but then, neither is the status quo ante)

    Medicare for all is just the easiest thing to write. The problems come a couple of years down the road.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  118. SWC,

    Also involved are the premium-paying but ailing citizens who had their individual policies cancelled (relieving the insurers of legal obligations to continue coverage to now-sick persons). They were forced to buy Obamacare policies, generally at higher rates with poorer coverage, but at least they *could* buy new insurance.

    A simple repeal of Obamacare would leave them high and dry. No coverage, still ill, no insurance company required to take them in (and none will). Even the former high-risk pools are now gone.

    What do you suppose the chances are that the Trump-hating press would pick up on this and make it a meme?

    Kevin M (752a26)

  119. these women are trashy and contemptible liars

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  120. The troublew with Trump on this issue is that he has no idea what a good system would look like. He does know that what he’d consider good is if it wouldn’t run in for alot of criticism. And believes it is not neyond huiman ingenuity to devise something – he just doesn’t have any idea of how to go about even having other people invent something.

    He’s banking on Chuck Schumer coming up with something that makes a majority of Republicans happy.

    He’s just trying to force Schumer to offer something like that, because Schumer probably isn’t going to pull the Republicans’ irons out of the fire if he can help it.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  121. @120

    But it’s been a vacuum of leadership from Trump.

    Tiana Lowe at NRO must be psychic. She wrote this before Trump’s “I’m leading by waiting in my office” comment today:

    Critics have used Trump’s apathy toward specifics as a defense: He would have signed any bill, so the onus was on congressional Republicans to bring him something to approve. But the president is not supposed to be just an “R” and a pen waiting at the finish line. Leading not just the White House but the Republican party as a whole, Trump bears the central responsibility for selling a true Obamacare repeal and, hopefully, a market-centric replacement — be it now or in the future — to the American people.

    (emphasis added)

    Read the whole thing.

    Dave (711345)

  122. 16. Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 7/19/2017 @ 6:49 am

    An American patient can’t fly in a doctor from another nation to get a cold pill from Canada under current law.

    But he can break the law, and probably won’t get stopped.

    They can also go abroad for cheaper surgery – and in california, go to Mexico for surgery that they can’t get under Medi-Cal because they can’t fuind asurgeon who will do it.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/medicaids-potemkin-health-coverage-1500419200 (Behind a paywall)

    Last week a group of Medi-Cal beneficiaries sued the state for creating “a separate and unequal system of healthcare, one for the insurance program with the largest proportion of Latinos (Medi-Cal), and one for the other principal insurance plans, whose recipients are disproportionately white.” One plaintiff had her gallbladder removed in Mexico after she spent more than a year trying to find a surgeon who would treat her. The doctor in Mexico had warned she was at risk of death if she put off the surgery, so her family paid for it out of pocket.

    Also:

    The shortage of doctors accepting Medi-Cal, together with the surge in enrollment, brings patients to the emergency room instead. ER visits by Medi-Cal patients rose 75% over the past five years, according to California’s Office of Statewide Health Planning and Development. The Santa Clara report says that in the first three quarters of 2016, Medi-Cal enrollees in the county were more than twice as likely as the privately insured to visit the ER for outpatient care….

    Before ObamaCare, Dr. Cornforth says, many indigent residents would seek treatment at low-cost rural community health centers or clinics along the Mexican border. Now Medi-Cal patients with minor maladies are inundating ERs, where they get free care and take up beds needed for patients who require urgent treatment. He says a sister hospital had so many Medi-Cal patients streaming in during flu season that it had to erect a tent outside the hospital.

    The problem is that Medi-Cal reimburses providers at between a third to half of the rate that private insurers pay. Doctors complain they lose money on each Medi-Cal patient they see. That’s why only 55% of primary-care physicians accept new Medi-Cal patients, according to a recent study from the California Health Care Foundation. When physicians were asked why they cap the number of Medi-Cal patients they see, 78% cited the program’s low payments.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  123. Emergency room care by the way is an example of irrational pricing. There could hardly be anything more low cost and efficient, but lots of overhead is loaded onto it.

    So we have now Urgent Care Centers, which in many ways is like an emergency room without the overhead.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  124. Trump yesterday: “Let Obamacare fail, it’ll be a lot easier.”

    Trump today: “Inaction is not an option.”

    Dave (711345)

  125. 117. J.P. (9e0433) — 7/19/2017 @ 11:12 am

    (according to them) if the conservatives don’t “fix” Obamacare, the system will collapse, the Republicans will get blamed and lose Congress.

    What could cause them to lose Congress is making things worse for people, or for state governments, like the bills that have been brought to the floor. They can’t pass bad legislation.

    narciso @49 @ 7:58 am

    It was designed to fail, that was the pledge Obama made in 2007, that won him the Iowa promary.

    Obama didn;’t make a pledge like that – his political enemies found the radip interview and it wa snot designed to fail but to be afirst ste,. like the Civil Rights bill of 1957. It was supposed to be good but just not good enough for enough people.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  126. 131. Trump today is pushing the bill. Hed ratehr have the bill because it will force Schumer to come to the table sooner.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  127. ‘Break a law and not get stopped..”

    You mean like illegals? I guess we’ll just have to wait until Sessions gets more power and leverage. He opposes grey market product re-entry. Trump? WTFK?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  128. Politico

    Despite laughably declaring Monday that he’s signed more legislation than any president in history, Trump went 0 for 2 this week while Obama notched a 2 for 2 record without lifting a finger. Obama’s greatest domestic achievement, health care reform, and arguably his greatest foreign policy achievement, the Iran nuclear deal, both appear to have triumphed this week despite Trump’s most fervent desires. The New York Times’ Peter Baker writes:

    As Tuesday dawned, [Trump] faced the reality that Mr. Obama’s most prominent domestic and international accomplishments both remained intact.

    In neither case has Mr. Trump given up. He instructed his national security team to keep rethinking the approach to Iran with a view toward either revising or scrapping the nuclear agreement. And he publicly called on Congress to simply repeal Mr. Obama’s health care program without trying to immediately pass a replacement.

    “We will return!” Mr. Trump tweeted Tuesday morning about the collapse of his health care effort.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  129. Trump is consistent on one thing: stealing as much as he can to get to that elusive $10b target.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  130. Eric Ericsson

    “Most new presidencies find a rhythm and stride by July of their first year. They all make mistakes. They all have missteps. But they eventually find their groove. This presidency shows no signs of doing that and this new normal is something from which I would rather move on. It is, however, here to stay. We have more than a year of this before we even have a mid-term election.

    Six months feels like an eternity.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  131. * Obamacare was not designed to fail, but to be a first step, like the Civil Rights bill of 1957.

    It was supposed to be good but just not good enough for enough people. The way Medicare could be considered a first step toward Single Payer.

    131. Trump doesn’t truly believe it would be a lot easier for him if Obamacare failed, or if he does he thinks it will be easier for him but take longer to get anywhere.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  132. 135.

    “We will return!” Mr. Trump tweeted Tuesday morning about the collapse of his health care effort.

    A la General Douglas MacArthur.

    In today’s paper:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/18/nyregion/no-rest-for-a-man-92-whose-work-went-to-the-moon-and-back.html

    His sons produced a scrapbook of news clippings. One photo showed MacArthur landing in the Philippines, but Ed Fastook pointed to a figure off to the side. “There’s Dad,” he said.

    “Tell him abut MacArthur landing,” Gene Jr. urged his father.

    “When he first got there, they carried him in so he wouldn’t get his feet and shoes wet,” Mr. Fastook said. “After the newsreels got there, he went back out and walked in.”

    (How and why MacArthur’s feet got wet are not matters of settled history. The general landed on Leyte in the Philippines in October 1944, having promised two years earlier to return and push back a Japanese invasion; he also came ashore on Luzon in January 1945. On both islands he walked through the surf, though whether out of necessity or theatricality is difficult to discern from a distance of 73 years.)

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  133. Of course McArthur had escape the Phillipines before his triumphant return.

    I always preferred an everyman like Bradle.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  134. Trump’s just trying to keep us confused and obscure his secret plans.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  135. It is said that MacArthur was ordered to leave the Philippines. How reluctant he was to leave is a matter of some dispute.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  136. His genius, no…Prescience and sagacity know no earthly bounds.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  137. More powerful than a locomotive, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound…

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  138. Obamacare was not designed to fail, but to be a first step, like the Civil Rights bill of 1957.

    The Civil Rights bill of 1957 was designed to stop lynching in the South and provide federal enforcement of voting rights. Then the Democrats joined together and referred it to James O Eastland’s committee of old southern fossils, who gutted it. In the end it provided a toothless commission to study the matters.

    JFK voted to send it to committee ad did most Democrats and almost no Republicans.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  139. CRA of 1964 was War as was Obama care.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  140. Johnson, guilt-stricken over JFK muscled it through by hook and crook.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  141. Obama guilt-stricken?

    It could have been over his having had him some white privileges.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  142. 99. shipwreckedcrew (39d859) — 7/19/2017 @ 10:02 am

    I just haven’t figured out what the constituency is that prevents Congress from making health insurance plans marketable nationwide.

    Insurance companies don’t like it, and neither do state insurance commissioners, because it createws greater uncertainty about the risk pool, and many consumer advocates who say very very bad or misleading insurance policies could be sold.

    There are the dangers of:

    1) Fake insurance

    2) Insolvent insurance

    Democrats (mostly) don’t want state policy overridden. For instance, New York State has community rating with no extra charges even for the pre-existing condition of age. Everybody at every age gets charged the same high rate. Obamacare lowered premiums for many people getting individual insurance in New York State because many people could get subsidies.

    In states where there is not already a death spiral selling across state lines could send locally regulated insurance policies into one. A law striking down barriers to interstate marketing of insurance plans could result in almost all insurance policies being regulated by only six or seven states or so. Like credit cards.

    And there’s no constituency for it, except people who are for it in principle.

    I’ve also read that it won’t by and large save any money because very few insurance companies will offer policies regulated by out of state regulators. There are a few places it is legal and it hasn’t happened. They can’t offer lower rates for the same coverage because insurance companies offer lower rates by negotiating with hospitals and doctors in exchange for narrow networks,and a policy which is not geared and designed for a locality will not have done that.

    But maybe the reason nothing has happened is that those states that permit out of state insurance don’t have very many regulations on insurance that would be avoided by going out of state. For this to mean anything there would have be differences in mandated coverage.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  143. Crazy wrote:

    McConnell is infamous for keeping his cards close to his vest. We don’t know what his ultimate objective is but you can be sure he’s hiding it by pushing the dissenters to the front by pushing a bill he’s told us for months couldn’t pass. Is he trying to pass it or prove it can’t pass? I believe the latter. What comes next is unknown but it won’t be friendly to limited government free market principles or he’d be showing it to us.

    The Distinguished Gentleman from Kentucky represents a poor state, one in which former Governor Steve Beshear’s (D-KY) Medicaid expansion reduced the uninsured rate from 19% to 7%. Current Governor Matt Bevin (R-KY), the TEA party challenger to Senator McConnell in 2014, who said he would reverse his predecessor’s order, backed off of that, and while he now has a plan to require some work for the able-bodied to retain Medicaid, it’s a tough sell.

    The simple fact is that the Majority Leader’s home state is one of the greatest recipients of the ACA provisions expanding Medicaid! Does anyone really expect him to be the 51st vote to repeal the ACA?

    He has to do what he has to do to remain Majority Leader, but, in the end, he will not let the Bluegrass State lose the Medicaid expansion. If we don’t get to single-payer in time, and the ACA isn’t replaced, count on Mr McConnell to try to retain the federal portion of Medicaid spending in the expansion, rather than let it fall back on the Commonwealth.

    The Dana now back in the Bluegrass State (2f144f)

  144. The esteemed Mr Finkelman asked me:

    I like those terms Obysmalcare and Obumblecare. How come nobody ever came up with that before, or did you get them from somewhere?\

    How ’bout Obaminablecare? :) While I came up with those myself, I can’t imagine that I’m the only one who did; it’s possible I heard one or the other elsewhere, and it registered only subconsciously.

    Theer are alternatives to single-payer, besides total repeal or the status quo (which is actually not viable, but then, neither is the status quo ante)

    Medicare for all is just the easiest thing to write. The problems come a couple of years down the road.

    Expanding Medicare to cover everybody is single-payer, as far as I am concerned; one could quibble about minutia, I suppose. I am convinced that it would be a slow-motion disaster, but the ACA is one already.

    Sachi ab Hugh’s 2010 article about her father’s treatment under Japan’s single-payer system is the most telling one I have ever seen, and the Veterans Administration hospitals scandal was hardly surprising, given the need to cut costs. But with the principle established that the federal government will be ultimately responsible for providing health care coverage, there’s little else that can be done.

    The wordsmith Dana (2f144f)

  145. I think his guilt-stricken-ness was over his mom contracting lung cancer and not having a health insurance policy (Gore milked this scenario re his sister par excellence albeit toward the more directly responsible tobacco industry with the 1996 DNC “Why?” speech).

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  146. Serious question: how many Republicans could support the current Affordable Care Act if they hadn’t laden it with the name Obamacare? How much of the opposition is due to not wanting our loathsome 44th President to get the credit for it?

    The Dana who recognizes the power of words (2f144f)

  147. @55. Why do conservatives favor property over people?

    Slaves to history.

    “Fortunately there are not enough men of property in America to dictate policy.” – John Hancock [David Ford] “1776” 1972
    _________

    The vintage bouquet of conservative whine; sour grapes ferments bitter dregs.

    _________
    Today’s Beldar the Bitter ‘Watergate, Watergate, Watergate’ Words of Wonder:

    “First, it is going to require approximately a million dollars to take care of the jackasses that are in jail. That could be, that could be arranged.” President Nixon discussing getting Watergate hush money funds to payoff Watergate burglars with John Dean and WH Chief of Staff HR Haldeman, secret White House Oval Office tapes, March 21, 1973

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  148. Lets see, the usual R suspects/suspect R’s plus maybe Tim Scott deep down inside.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  149. Affordable Care Act is a gay turd cause it forces you to buy crappy insurance you don’t even want cause it’s so stupid

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  150. Why do leftists favor communism over capitalism?

    Slaves to the state.

    The pathological need to control others. Or kill them if they won’t obey.

    Rev.Hoagie® (630eca)

  151. @154. To the Dana Who Recognizes The Power Of Words:

    Howzabout a fresh pitch: instead of “Repeal and Replace” try “Replace and Repeal.”

    “The Best Just Got Better!” — advertising tag line for failed ‘New Coke’ – Coca-Cola Company, 1986

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  152. CLEEKS LAW

    today’s conservatism is the opposite of what liberals want today: updated daily.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  153. Have a Coke and a vertical smile!

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  154. #161, that’s what Cosby really meant to say in that ad campaign!

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  155. Rumpelstilskin Party on ‘how can we screw it up some more?’

    AXIOS

    The goal seems to be to get something passed, regardless of whether it just repeals parts of the Affordable Care Act or tries to replace them.

    When asked whether the vote would be on repeal, the latest version of the Senate replacement bill, or some other replacement plan, Finance Committee Chairman Orrin Hatch said, “It could be all of the above, but at least one.” He said Trump’s message to the caucus was to “unify and get things done.”

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  156. Of course, there’s only so much blame the elected officials deserve.

    The American elecorate is ignorant about econpmics and loves free goodies. They are driving this.

    Patterico (115b1f) — 7/19/2017 @ 7:43 am

    I would go even further, Patterico. The elected officials deserve little to no blame. All they are trying to do is please their constituencies and get re-elected. They are (rightly or wrongly — my guess is rightly) afraid of the fallout stemming from those who would be negatively affected by a vote to change Obamacare.

    I inwardly shake my head every time I hear people rail against politicians. They should be railing against the electorate.

    norcal (2adf03)

  157. In the other items, department, gee, thanks a lot, Kris (see exact middle of article)!
    http://thehill.com/homenews/news/kris-kobach-trump-voter-fraud-commission-we-may-never-know-if-hillary-clinton-won-popular-vote

    And found this while there also, put it in the cognitive dissonance department:
    http://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/341860-boyfriend-of-journalist-shot-and-killed-on-tv-running-for-virginia-state

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  158. I’m late to the party, but I share in your shock.

    Unfortunately, Murkowski isn’t up for re-election until 2022.

    How to explain the flip-flops by Portman, Murkowski, Capito (capitulate)?

    Even if we suppose that some voters in their states are now politically addicted to that sweet, sweet federal taxpayer money (as Ted Cruz feared would be the case), isn’t Obamacare still overwhelmingly harming more voters that it’s helping? Harming them a LOT?

    I don’t get it. I didn’t get why John Roberts saved this unconstitutional turd when even Coin Flip Kennedy wouldn’t, and I don’t get this.

    Mitch (341ca0)

  159. It could be the case, #166, that the class of voter described by Kevin M. who is the one truly twisting in the winds of higher premiums and decreased offerings, might be disproportionately distributed in deep blue and swing states where there numbers are dwarfed by those in employer group insurance combined with those in medicaid-expansion enabled plans.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  160. I inwardly shake my head every time I hear people rail against politicians. They should be railing against the electorate.

    In this case, they should rail at both.

    During the 2016 election campaign, Donald Trump, in his ignorance and duplicity, repeatedly promised that everyone would have the absolute best coverage “at a tiny fraction of the cost”, that nobody would be worse off or have to sacrifice anything, and it would all be “so easy”, etc, etc. Rainbows and unicorns too, I promise you!

    Compared to such dishonestly inflated expectations (which Trump, needless to say, hasn’t offered even a hint of how to meet), any *real* plan was guaranteed to look horrible.

    “I will give you everything.” – Donald Trump, campaign rally, 26 May 2016

    Dave (711345)

  161. The American elecorate is ignorant about econpmics and loves free goodies. They are driving this.

    Elitism.

    The ‘American electorate’ understood trickle down economics well-enough:

    “Senator, don’t piss down my back and tell me it’s raining.” – Fletcher [John Vernon] ‘The Outlaw Josey Wales’ 1976

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  162. Krauthammer last night was excellent in explaining how tort reform would likely result in major savings and much better access for specialized care without costing the gubment one thin dime. He believes 1/4th of tests/procedures are purely defensive medicine.

    Where’s the impetus for such reform? Shirley, everyone decrying the meeeeeeean repeal of ACA can support less expense and better access at no public cost.

    Ed from SFV (3400a5)

  163. I didn’t get why John Roberts saved this unconstitutional turd

    He explains why pretty clearly in his opinion.

    I read the whole thing back in 2012. It wasn’t the ruling I was hoping for, and I’m not a lawyer, but his reasoning wasn’t hard to understand.

    Dave (711345)

  164. Politico says House conservatives are launching a late effort to force their colleagues to vote on an outright repeal of Obamacare…

    What could go wrong with freedom caucus to cock it up.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  165. Tort reform, tax reform…all from the same accounting firm, right?

    GALTRIGHT SHRUGS.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  166. @130 Sammy

    Ben Burn likely thinks ERs and casinos are run on the same model.

    Pinandpuller (66fc0c)

  167. I’m with you, Patterico. These hacks need to be beaten in the primaries.

    mg (31009b)

  168. @132 Sammy

    Like The 14th Amendment was the first step to gay marriage.

    Pinandpuller (66fc0c)

  169. You read my earlier comment pin..

    Slot machines in hospitals could generate revenue as well as award sufficient cash without side effects. Lotto scratcher example…$10 ticket with two chances to win…appendectomy or cash equivalent for another procedure. Up to three winning tickets could be used for the same surgery. There would have to be rules.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  170. @135 Ben Burn

    Is that your way of saying Obama built a wall around health care and Iran?

    “Winter is coming.”

    Pinandpuller (66fc0c)

  171. The ‘gateway’ amendment.

    Another example of slippery slopes.

    “Dogs and cats, living together…”

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  172. why don’t we just let corrupt, useless p.o.s. attorney general Jeff Sessions fund all the health cares with unconstitutional asset forfeiture

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  173. Adam Carolla has a bit about hooking up a coin slot to people who are on life support. As long as you keep feeding it ma stays alive.

    But what about when the government won’t let you feed the meter? Municipalities have made it illegal to feed other people’s parking meters.

    Pinandpuller (66fc0c)

  174. It turns out Obama’s most irritating quality; his slow march, was real, not fake governance for that nano second on Tee Vee, but for the enduring future, was his greatest triumph.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  175. People in S California should believe in slippery slopes.

    “It’s raining cats and dogs. I just stepped in a labradoodle.”

    Pinandpuller (66fc0c)

  176. Wow..compound, run on..

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  177. A real triumph of the will some might say.

    Pinandpuller (66fc0c)

  178. I will be revising my Jackie Robinson versus Cassius Clays rant.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  179. They should have released the Obamaforming Device on Washington before we were subject to it.

    Pinandpuller (66fc0c)

  180. At the current pace of Senate confirmations, which are being dragged out by Dem stalling tactics, it would take Trump 11 years to get Senate confirmation on all required nominees.

    And if he could utter 4 coherent sentences in a row, he’d call them out on this and demand changes to Seante rules that allowed a President to staff his administration. Call it sabotage. Call it an attack on the government. Call it passive-aggressive treason.

    Tell them that unless it stops and the administration is allowed to function, the DoJ will start looking at their business dealings and tax returns.

    But Trump will do none of this. He will just post incoherent tweets that are best ignored.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  181. Don’t bring a baseball bat to a fistfight?

    Pinandpuller (66fc0c)

  182. If you can dodge a draft, you can dodge a bat.

    Any thoughts on Mayweather vs McGreggor?

    Pinandpuller (66fc0c)

  183. No. Jackie wanted to wade into racists but he tempered his anger for the sake of the future of baseball and blacks. Ali just said to hell with that.

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  184. But Trump will do none of this. He will just post incoherent tweets that are best ignored.

    i bet he surprises you

    he’s a stupendous leader and he has many insight into the art of the deal

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  185. Does happy feet know DEAL was ghost written?

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  186. you’re just saying that for to try to get my goat

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  187. Just your Pet Goat..

    Ben burn (b3d5ab)

  188. when Mr. Ace does tweeters it always has something to do with baby goats

    he has layers

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  189. plus he did a link to this post which is a warm and collegial gesture

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  190. 194.Does happy feet know DEAL was ghost written?

    I don’t know. Does he know It takes a Village, Dear Socks, Stronger Together, Living History and Hard Choices (which I thought was a Bill Clinton book by the title) were ghost written for Hillary? Does he know the Bible was ghost written for God?

    Rev.Hoagie® (630eca)

  191. Patterico @45 wrote:

    A well-intentioned safety net for the few becomes a spider web for the ambitious and a hammock for the rest.

    Did you make that up? Because that’s really, really good.

    Yes, I did. My thoughts on the subject are heavily influenced by folks like Walter Williams, Thomas Sowell and Daniel Mitchell so I know I’m not alone in describing our safety net as something too many get stuck in and too many others are happy staying in. The phrase is just my way of putting it all together in a pithy and hopely memorable way.

    That’s a high complement from one who uses language as skillfully as you do. I was away from the web until now so I only just noticed your comment but I greatly appreciate it.

    crazy (11d38b)

  192. “We” primary them… “We” never, ever forget this betrayal. You have to join “me.” So I ask you: Who’s with “me?”

    ??? Interesting rally cry but thought you left the GOP last year. It is the Republican Party – big tent stuff… not the “Conservative” or “Libertarian” Party.

    ________

    Ouch. Regardless of your political persuasion, sympathies and best wishes to John McCain, news breaking he’s diagnosed w/a brain tumor.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  193. oh that’s terribly sad news

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  194. Sen. John McCain diagnosed with brain cancer – The Washington Post

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/…/sen-john-mccain-diagnosed-with-brain-cancer/

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  195. when all the birds are singing in the sky

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  196. @203- amended: WAPO gets it wrong again– revised its header in seconds from ‘cancer’ to ‘tumor’:

    John McCain, Republican senator from Arizona, diagnosed with brain tumor

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  197. I wish McCain no ill health.

    I also am furious with him for insisting on gaining another term last November. His hubris and narcissism have cost this country dearly.

    Ed from SFV (3400a5)

  198. his fondest wish was to die in office Mr. SFV

    on the taxpayer’s dime

    to take that away from him would be so cruel

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  199. Weird and perhaps at this moment inappr question…can a sitting Senator be appointed to replace a retiring Senator from the same state? If yes could McCain stage his resignation at a point close enough to the Nov. ’18 election that Flake could be appointed to the seat (thus not up for re-election until 22) and resultingly an open seat election for his current seat?

    urbanleftbehind (7cd4e3)

  200. Err, no. An appointment to fill a vacancy in the Senate is only good until the next general election under Arizona law.

    nk (dbc370)

  201. the comments on this null set shrubbery thread are a testament to Senator McCain’s legacy

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  202. Illinois, too. Without researching it, I figure it’s required by the 17th Amendment that Senators be elected to the extent that it is practicable and appointments are only temporary.

    nk (dbc370)

  203. I’ve known people who died of a glioblastoma. The only thing to be said for it is that it’s pretty quick.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  204. Peter Daou
    (@peterdaou)

    Sad news. CNN reporting @SenJohnMcCain has brain cancer. Wishing him well. One of the few Republicans showing patriotism in this tough time.

    i have a cd this douchebag produced for his now-ex-wife, who was one of those wispy 90s chicks

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  205. them’s some nasty lyrics girlfriend

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  206. 211. nk (dbc370) — 7/19/2017 @ 6:02 pm

    Without researching it, I figure it’s required by the 17th Amendment that Senators be elected to the extent that it is practicable and appointments are only temporary.

    It’s possible to go more than two years, although increasingly states don’t do this. Congressman Charles Goodell was appointing by Governor Nelson Rockefeller to fill the seat of Senator Robert F. Kennedy in August 1968 and there wasn’t an election until November 1970. JFK’s seat was filled by a placeholder from Jan. 1961 until Nov 1962 by which time Ted Kennedy had turned 30. Kirsten Gillebrand was appointed Governor David Paterson to replace Hillary Clinton on the recommendation of Charles Schumer at the beginning of 2009 and there wasn’t an election until Novembe 2010 – and again in 2012 for the full 6-year term, but despite that being somewhat easy pickings there wasn’t a serious challenge to her either time.

    Senator McCain should turn to the same doctor Jimmy Carter did and call 212-CHOICES.

    Sammy Finkelman (7915f9)

  207. Last week Courtney Love and now the Daous. I worry about the company you keep, happyfeet.

    nk (dbc370)

  208. When you’re 80, the best thing you can do is stay away from doctors altogether. Don’t let them tinker with you and don’t let them cut you.

    nk (dbc370)

  209. At least he has good government healthcare. mayo clinic doesn’t except medicare. Oh! I need to buy a black dress.

    congresswoman mcsalley (fd6402)

  210. AND learn the difference between “except” and accept.

    Icy (fcd883)

  211. Weird. Cassius Clay got paid to beat up other black guys. Kind of a mixed message.

    Pinandpuller (66fc0c)

  212. AND learn the difference between *government healthcare* and government paid for health insurance.

    Rev.Hoagie® (630eca)

  213. AND learn that the Mayo Clinic does accept Medicare as partial payment.

    Icy (fcd883)

  214. AND stop being a d-bag.

    Icy (fcd883)

  215. @213 hf

    The Daou of poo.

    Pinandpuller (66fc0c)

  216. Mayo accepts Medicare. It does not accept Medicare “assignment” whereby Medicare sets the rate for a procedure, but it still cannot charge more than 15% above the Medicare rate.

    nk (dbc370)

  217. I’ve said before I used to deliver durable medical goods. My wife didn’t realize you need a script for medical grade O2 (If you go to an oxygen bar you might as well be sucking on an air compressor).

    Anyway, if I got called to the ER I would usually give the person a concentrator, an E bottle on a dolly and a sixer of B’s.

    Whether they used them a weekend or four weeks insurance or Medicare got charged for a month. Usually when the patient was released I would bring back all the bottles untouched.

    We would break the seals and blow them out and put them in the returns pile.

    Sometimes Dave would hook a plastic tube up and try to shoot you in the nuts with a mini marshmallows-no homo.

    Pinandpuller (66fc0c)

  218. Well, that’s Medicare’s fault. It does not only set the rate, it also sets the duration for a treatment or hospital stay. That does not always work out for the patient or the hospital, because people don’t recover from disease or injury according in accordance with government regulations; and like you just pointed out it does not always save Medicare money.

    nk (dbc370)

  219. Could McCain have a liberal democrat fetus in fetu?

    Pinandpuller (2d12cc)

  220. Is it strange that McCain carries a wicker basket around and occasionally talks to it?

    Pinandpuller (2d12cc)

  221. I did like how trump had the Three Amigos seated next to him at his lunch pep talk/scolding.

    “Dad’s home.”

    Patricia (5fc097)

  222. Is it strange that McCain carries a wicker basket around and occasionally talks to it?

    yes it is good catch

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  223. John McCain outlived Michael Jackson. And Michael took so many beatings from Joe he couldn’t raise his hands above a kid’s head.

    Pinandpuller (2d12cc)

  224. Condolences to the family of Mary Jo Kopechne.
    Drunk Ted got away with murder.

    mg (31009b)

  225. From Wikipedia: “Ozymandias” represents a rendering in Greek of a part of Ramesses’s throne name, User-maat-re Setep-en-re. The sonnet paraphrases the inscription on the base of the statue, given by Diodorus Siculus in his Bibliotheca historica, as “King of Kings am I, Ozymandias. If anyone would know how great I am and where I lie, let him surpass one of my works.” The Greek historian really distorted names. This Ramesses named a lot of places after himself, and is probably mentioned in Exodus 1:11.

    His mummy is now in Paris, I believe.

    Sammy Finkelman (980460)


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