Trump: It’s an “Honor” to Meet with Putin
Seems kinda beta to me.
We’ll wait for the full report. Diplomacy requires that you suck up to murderous totalitarians. We understood when Obama sucked up to Chavez, as I recall (didn’t we?), and so there is no reason to get upset if Trump plays beta male to a repressive thug like Putin.
Again, we’ll see how the rest of it plays out.
P.S. I do not plan to inhabit the comments of this post except perhaps at the Jury. As Joe Pesci said in his opening statement: “Everything that guy just said is bullshit!” That is my response to the dozens of rude comments I fully expect in response to this post. No point in writing it again and again.
[Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back, where you can discuss this post with the host if you can follow the rules. Don’t bother addressing me here.]
BUT YOU DIDN’T WAIT FOR THE FULL REPORT AND YOU NEVER SAID YOU WOULD
Patterico (115b1f) — 7/7/2017 @ 7:55 amIt would be an “honor” to meet with you
ropelight (d22e6a) — 7/7/2017 @ 8:11 amI’ll break my comment silence to say I feel the same about you, ropelight, in all seriousness.
Patterico (a048af) — 7/7/2017 @ 8:15 ami think they should both be honored to meet each other cause of at least they’re not trying to do climate change hoax all up in it to where working families get viciously merkel-raped
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/7/2017 @ 8:16 amWell, DiBlasio thinks the antifas of Hamburg need his guidance. On the whole I prefer Trump and Putin doing a mutual tonguebath.
BTW, Rachel Maddow has found something even she realized was fake news
kishnevi (bb03e6) — 7/7/2017 @ 8:23 amhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/rachel-maddow-forged-nsa-document-discredit-news-organizations_us_595ef40ce4b0d5b458e96791
It’s ironic to see Trump be courteous and to see people defend him for that because he was just doing his job. He won the Presidency in large part because he wasn’t courteous but was instead willing to say whatever he thought. Why does Putin deserve courtesy but not American politicians and their supporters?
DRJ (15874d) — 7/7/2017 @ 8:24 amMr. Trump has always been very courteous in his encounters with people. Sometimes he can do irreverent tweeters and do hyperbole and such at his rallies, but that doesn’t make him a bad person.
I think he’s quite a good role model in how he handles himself and represents America (unlike Obama who was just so embarrassing and useless.)
Obama liked to sign phony treaties at these things – that was so gay.
You won’t see President Trump doing crap like signing fake treaties that’s for sure.
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/7/2017 @ 8:29 amTrump has his own definition of courteous, hf, as do you. He calls the media scum while his Trump University guidelines e remind students that treating the media with courtesy gets you a long way.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/7/2017 @ 8:54 amThe media is very scummy. They’re trying to do demonize on Putin and Russia for naked political purposes when Putin and Russia are essential to even a mere possibility of a successful resolution of North Korean nuclear breakout.
Fortunately President Trump thinks of America first.
when the rude first lady of poland snubbed his handshake President Trump could have hauled off and smacked her on her stupid fat Polish butt but he was so nice and pretended not to notice
We haven’t had a real Statesman like him in office since the Reagan years when Ronald Reagan was president.
Lol remember how harvardtrash loser Barack Obama gave the nasty queen of leggy meggy’s britain an ipod of his speeches?
Stupid obama.
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/7/2017 @ 9:00 amPatterico,
No issue with your remarks here.
I don’t get the alpha, beta, delta, gamma insults. People are who they are. Almost impossible to change.
Nukes for one. Democrats have called us every name in the book, hello deplorables, for two.
We cannot influence Russia at this point in time with brash speech though I would say that Trump telling Eastern Europe to get their energy from us and not Russia was pretty brash.
Diplomacy is expected in foreign relations between major powers as it was with China even though they are also a bunch of murderous thugs.
NJRob (5be766) — 7/7/2017 @ 9:13 amYou’re an idiot for buying into the media’s portrayal of the Polish first lady snubbing Trump. She was looking at Melanie and didn’t see his hand. She took Melania’s hand first, then Trump’s.
Talk like a human.
NJRob (5be766) — 7/7/2017 @ 9:16 amY’know, it’s more a relief that our President can be polite from time to time, rather than bitch slapping every world leader he meets. I admit that I don’t get this post.
Trump is an awful human being. As a leader — well, I find Ann Coulter’s recent commentary instructive. He’s not doing a lot of winning for his side. His sense of humor always reminds me of Jimmy Cagney in White Heat asking if the guy in the car trunk wants some air. When the guy says yes — he shoots a gat into the trunk several times, with a bleep-eating grin on his face. Heh, heh, funny joke.
But every now and then, Trump is going to do something a normal person is going to like. He’s not going to be guilty of every charge David Frum can conjure up. He’s not going to act in improbable ways, just because that would help out Putin. Accept the fact that Comey did far more to elect the Donald than Vladamir.
The comment is that Trump seems to bring out the worst in everybody — friends and foes. I would suggest to those who agree with me that Trump is that stuff you scrape off your shoe, that you shouldn’t let Trump make you a raving loon. Nor should you let the legions of the deluded do the same thing.
Appalled (0119d8) — 7/7/2017 @ 9:28 amHaving been fanstativally wrong about Obama, will all the caveats you were offered appalled you would think you would reserve judgment for a little while
narciso (d1f714) — 7/7/2017 @ 9:40 amat dinner tonight President Trump should go up to the first poland lady and point at her shirt and say hey you got something on your shirt then when she looks down he can thwunk her on the nose!
then everyone will laugh at how stupid she is!
you have to put these people in their place otherwise everyone will say about how beta you are
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/7/2017 @ 9:42 amRob,
I was talking about GOP politicians like Jeb, Carly, Rubio and Cruz aND Republic supporters You would have realized that if you followed my link. But I also think it’s stupid to insult opponents of either Party. Obviously I am not as suited to the Trump Era as you are, plus you’ve made up your mind that Trump is right and opposing Trump is unjustified.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/7/2017 @ 9:42 amnarciso:
What’s the internet without strong opinions?
Appalled (0119d8) — 7/7/2017 @ 9:43 amSo, the meeting is reportedly going on longer than expected.
TRUMP: It’s an honor to meet you.
PUTIN: You’ll address me as “sir”.
TRUMP: It’s an honor to meet you, sir.
PUTIN: I brought along a few executive orders for you to sign.
TRUMP: It will be an honor.
PUTIN: …sir.
TRUMP: It will be an honor, sir.
PUTIN: Sasha and Anastasia asked me to say hello.
TRUMP: If I ever come back to Moscow, do you think we could…
PUTIN: No.
Dave (711345) — 7/7/2017 @ 9:44 amFirst of all Putin isn’t calling Trump (and Trump supporters) all kinds of trash names, nor is he trying to get him impeached or render his presidency impotent. Secondly, Putin is a reformed communist many of the American politicians and their supporters are not yet reformed. Perhaps if Schumer, Waters, Pelosi and their slimy ilk were polite to Trump he may reciprocate. He does seem very nice to those who are nice to him.
Rev.Hoagie® (630eca) — 7/7/2017 @ 9:47 amWhat did Heidi Cruz ever do to Trump, Hoagie?
DRJ (15874d) — 7/7/2017 @ 9:48 amHe is nice to those who are subservient. Big difference, and I doubt it will work with Putin.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/7/2017 @ 9:49 amWhat did President Trump ever do to Heidi Cruz?
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/7/2017 @ 9:50 amPutin is a reformed Commiuniat? Did you actually say that?
DRJ (15874d) — 7/7/2017 @ 9:50 amI think Rob made up his mind Trump is “right” more often than his opponents on the left are and therefore opposing Trump is siding with leftists, pinkos and seditionists. I could be wrong.
Rev.Hoagie® (630eca) — 7/7/2017 @ 9:53 amYes.
Rev.Hoagie® (630eca) — 7/7/2017 @ 9:53 amPutin is a member of the United Russia Party not the communist party. Try and keep up.
Rev.Hoagie® (630eca) — 7/7/2017 @ 9:57 amWhich add Russian nationalists who realize socialism Dorset work
narciso (d1f714) — 7/7/2017 @ 9:59 amhttps://mobile.twitter.com/derekahunter/status/883314004604723201
Yes they are ignoring the mote in their eye
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/features/2017/07/06/Qatar.html
narciso (d1f714) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:03 am“Putin is a reformed communist many of the American politicians and their supporters are not yet reformed.”
– Rev. Hoagie
Your comments defy parody. My goodness.
Leviticus (efada1) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:06 amI don’t see the point of their protests
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/07/g20-protests-hamburg-altona-messehalle
narciso (d1f714) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:13 amNot one Trump supporter here has condemned WTP for using Patterico’s political beliefs to suggest P may not do a good work or be reliable in his job.
Some people have been here for years and know what P does and how difficult and demanding his job is. This is their idea of an internet friendship. I hope they learned this kind of thinking from Trump and weren’t already that way … but this is who they are now.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:19 amNavalny is a great fellow, in fact Ben judah finds him unacceptable in so many ways, the girl band I won’t say their name, were pretty much coubterproductivd
narciso (d1f714) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:20 amPutin is our enemy, Hoagie, and he knows big lies work. He and Trump have that in common.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:22 amPutin made chumps of kind words by Presidents Bush and Obama. Trump will be his trifecta.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:24 amI read her article previously. She’s a leftwing agent of Jeb who worked on his campaign. Trump’s raving fan base that attacked her online are idiots. She’s not an ally though any more than McCain, “we can’t repeal Obamacare” is.
NJRob (5be766) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:26 amPutin in his own words on 1/25/16:
What does Rev Hoagie think of that?
DRJ (15874d) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:28 amFacts Not in evidence as you just “politely” insulted me. I’ve criticized Trump several times as I did on the last thread. The difference is, I don’t take his actions as a personal affront and he’s targeting the left who is my enemy.
NJRob (5be766) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:28 amNo ana navarro isn’t self aware enough to realize she is aiding the left like the ortegas who. Who reinvented themselves in the image of the somozas as a crony clique because for resistance figures like aleman became corrupt.
narciso (d1f714) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:29 amCan you clarify, Rob. Are you saying she deserved whatever was said or done to her by Trump and band of his idiots?
DRJ (15874d) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:30 amAre you angry at people who oppose Trump, or not?
DRJ (15874d) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:31 amAnd, yes, I try to be polite. Thank you.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:31 amCan’t argue with that and I will add that the left wants to turn us into a one party, totalitarian state where dissent is not permitted and many on the right are happy to support them if it gets their enemies. CNN trying to doxx a private citizen who they had no interest in finding is no different than Obama going after Joe the Plumber after the fact because he showed Obama was an ignorant buffoon. CNN had no clue what kind of person the Reddit guy was and didn’t care when they tried to find him and threatened him. Everything else they did was justification after the fact.
NJRob (5be766) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:32 amOne more time, for Hoagie. Vladimir Putin said:
DRJ (15874d) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:32 amUs vs Them, right Rob? So if I’m not with Us then I must be with Them.
FYI that is a cult.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:34 amBig deal. I was going to tell him He was wrong and a jerk for his remarks threatening Patterico’s livelihood, but he was already banned. No point to do so, but you made me do so just now to call you out on your BS.
Do you really think you are morally superior to the rest of us or is it just virtue signaling?
NJRob (5be766) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:35 amNo she didn’t deserve it. She’s not an ally.
NJRob (5be766) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:37 amOne more thing, Rob:
Trump has not yet personally offended me. He is a sad little person with no values but that makes me feel sorry for him, not be offended. I will be offended if he doesn’t do more to build the Wall. That was his core campaign promise and I expect him to do more than he’s done so far. He still claims he will make Mexico pay for it. We’ll see. My guess is that’s another politicians’ empty promise by a very empty politician.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:39 amTell It to President Bush after 9/11. Tell it to those calling for economic sanctions on those who do business with North Korea.
Keep on pretending reality doesn’t exist. It really is an us or them. I don’t have to like many of the people on our side, but I won’t attack them to give aid and comfort to the left who is only trying to push the destruction of my life and those who share my values.
NJRob (5be766) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:40 amYou want parody, Leviticus? The socialist cum communist mayor of New York, Bill “The Red” de Blasio took a taxpayer funded jet to the G20 to PROTEST TRUMP! That’s correct, an American mayor is protesting his own president on foreign soil. YEs, the left are not yet reformed socialists, communists and seditionists. Then he’s using said taxpayer funded et to visit his Yale educated mini-commie son in Berlin. That’s parody Leviticus.
Rev.Hoagie® (630eca) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:40 amAnd that’s what we should be focusing on. He him to his campaign promises. Pressure him and Congress to fulfill building the wall and repealing Obamacare. All the rest is a distraction that prevents us from getting our agenda passed till the left gets another crack at elections and saying their enemies did nothing with their time so put us in charge instead.
NJRob (5be766) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:42 amI think I am a far better friend, Rob.
Now explain whether Lauren Batchelder deserved her treatment by Trump and his band simply for asking a tough question. And she was a Jeb volunteer. Does volunteering in politics mean you can be personally attacked for asking a question? Or does only an “ally” get courtesy?
DRJ (15874d) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:43 amHold him to his campaign promises*
NJRob (5be766) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:43 amI know Putin is our enemy, DR. I don’t need reminding but perhaps you need reminding that Trump isn’t.
Rev.Hoagie® (630eca) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:45 amI said they were wrong. I’ve said it multiple times. Are you going to continue to badger me with the same questions phrased a different way counsellor till you get a different answer? That’s not going to happen.
Jeb isn’t an ally either.
NJRob (5be766) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:45 amBush’s definition of Us vs Them was freedom-lovers vs terrorists and their supporters, not people with political disagreements.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:46 amI don’t understand what you mean by “not an ally” so I am asking you questions, not badgering you. Not an ally of who? Trump? Democrats? Communists? Please clarify.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:47 amCome Rev, your not too far away, Philly being the 6th borough to some…lead an NYC mayoral coup while Willard/Bill not so I-talian is filming schiester films in Deutschland.
urbanleftbehind (5eecdb) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:48 amAnd one more time for DR: Putin is a member of the Unity Russian Party. So he’s as much a communist as many, many, many democrats.
So then, you get to pick and choose when Putin tells the truth? If you agree with him he’s truthful, if not, not. It’s hard for you to keep up like that.
Rev.Hoagie® (630eca) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:50 amAn ally of conservatives and limited government constitutuonalists versus statists who want to expand the power of government just with them in charge.
Roe defenders and Obamacare supporters are not my ally.
NJRob (5be766) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:52 amHoagie, Trump is keeping Transgender thinking in the schools and he’s fine with Planned Parenthood, abortion, and SSM. That doesn’t make him my enemy but I oppose those things and other things he supports.
Trump supporters like to claim common sense when criticized, but I think it is not common sense and counterproductive to frame this as a war with allies and enemies. It’s natural to fear what is happening to America but I don’t think this Us vs Them attitude is likely to solve political and cultural disagreements.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:53 amhttp://babalublog.com/2017/07/07/opposition-to-trumps-cuba-policy-wants-to-have-it-both-ways-it-is-nothing-and-it-is-the-worst-thing-ever
narciso (d1f714) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:54 amTrump is a Roe defender and Obama are supporter. He talks against them but does nothing to stop them.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:54 amYou are the one claiming Putin isn’t a communist. That makes his statement of support for communist ideas an admission against interest, Hoagie, and credible.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:57 amTrump is pushing to defund Planned Infanticide. He has already put one Justice on the Court that should know Roe was an abomination and must be repealed.
He says he’s pro-life. Not sure what more evidence you want.
But it’s better when you attack him for political positions and work to get that agenda working in our direction than personal distaste and feelings.
NJRob (5be766) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:58 amPutin is a thug. He’s a totalitarian who rules with an iron fist.
Sadly, lots of Russians love him for it like lots of Venezuelans still love Maduro and plenty of leftists loved Obama for siccong the federal government on conservatives.
NJRob (5be766) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:59 amif we want to kick nasty tranny children out of schools someone should make a law to do that (i would support this) but if the law says you have to have nasty trannies all up in your schools I think we should at least be gracious about it and try to accommodate them
they’re basically special needs children plus child abuse victims all rolled up in one foul-smelling package, so the Christian thing to do is to be gracious and try to make them as comfortable as possible before they inevitably kill themselves
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/7/2017 @ 11:01 amI find it disconcerting that so many are so full of anti-Trump hate they can’t find the wisdom to support the president when he’s abroad. I also find it way, way past time for us to be *nice* to our political adversaries. It’s time to be as nasty as they. Preferably more so. Therefore, using that criterion the answer to:
Would be Yes & Yes!
Rev.Hoagie® (630eca) — 7/7/2017 @ 11:01 amI do not agree, Hoagie.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/7/2017 @ 11:08 amDid Trump criticize Obama when he was abroad? Have you insulted someone on the basis of being Jewish?
Yes and yes!
Dustin (ba94b2) — 7/7/2017 @ 11:11 amPutin: Donald Fredovich, it is an honor and a privilege.
nk (dbc370) — 7/7/2017 @ 11:12 amTrump: It is an honor and a privilege for me, Vladimir Vladimirovich.
Putin: That is what I meant.
Trump nominated Gorsuch and I’m glad about that, Rob, but that doesn’t make Trump pro-life. Gorsuch is the one with the history. Trump’s history and words don’t support his claim that he is.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/7/2017 @ 11:14 amBeing pro-life doesn’t make you a good person.
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/7/2017 @ 11:15 amSadly, some also love Trump for dissing everyone who doesn’t adore him.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/7/2017 @ 11:15 amAll people are loved, hf, even the unborn.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/7/2017 @ 11:16 amat dinner tonight President Trump should go up to the first poland lady
You DO know that video was doctored, don’t you?
Kevin M (752a26) — 7/7/2017 @ 11:16 amOk, I’ll take the bait. What makes one a good person?
nk (dbc370) — 7/7/2017 @ 11:16 amAnd the transgenders.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/7/2017 @ 11:17 ami agree about the unborn but trannies are more likely to be pitied than loved
unless they’re uncommonly charismatic (and they have really good hygiene)
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/7/2017 @ 11:18 amNever said he was pro-life most of his life. I don’t even know if it’s a political decision or not like many of the Republicans in Congress who claim to be so yet vote against it when it counts. But he’s actually pushing our agenda forward and that’s what counts. Not his past.
NJRob (5be766) — 7/7/2017 @ 11:20 amA good person is like how Mr. Trump was so gracious and didn’t react to the Poland first lady’s startlingly rude “antifa” protest action against the president of the United States.
It’s not about turning the other cheek.
It’s about trusting that you’re on the right path and doing what the good lord wants you to do, even when people are being mean.
Especially when you’re in a foreign country where all the food has mayonnaise in it.
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/7/2017 @ 11:23 amActually many have turned on Chavez,
https://faustasblog.com/2017/07/de-blasio-rushes-off-to-g-20/
Sean Penn and Danny glover were unavailable.
narciso (d1f714) — 7/7/2017 @ 11:24 amRob, Trump has said he is pro-choice, so much that he would not ban partial birth abortion. He doesn’t say that now, of course, but do you really think he changed his mind?
DRJ (15874d) — 7/7/2017 @ 11:25 amAre you seriously pushing that fake news? Didn’t you see NJRobs’s comment at 12, and Kevin M’s at 75? This is fake-fake news.
nk (dbc370) — 7/7/2017 @ 11:26 amIf you see the video she clearly has an agenda. She probably discussed this in advance with William Kristol, who has said he’d prefer a deep state autocracy to democratic governance in America.
It was on CNN.
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/7/2017 @ 11:28 amLOL
hahahahahaha
bwahahahahahaha
Yeah let’s get Sherlock Holmes on this.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 7/7/2017 @ 11:29 amDRJ,
Read my comment at 79. You have your answer already.
NJRob (5be766) — 7/7/2017 @ 11:30 amThank you, Rob, I see your cmoment 79, although I didn’t before I posted my last comment.
You believe Trump and think that appointing Gorsuch shows he will stay pro-life as President, right? If so, I hope you are correct.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/7/2017 @ 11:37 amHappy feet.
Seen Goldbrick?
Ben burn (d30fc3) — 7/7/2017 @ 11:38 amWhat#NeverTrumpers don’t get is that despite their posturing, they are the ones advancing Putin’s interest.
ThOR (c7bb67) — 7/7/2017 @ 11:39 amWhere is the Rumpublican Pootin love?
Doncha know we’re on the same team?
Ben burn (d30fc3) — 7/7/2017 @ 11:40 amAnd they wonder why nickolodeon is beating them:
https://www.conservativereview.com/articles/reliable-sources-cnnblackmail-was-far-right-narrative
narciso (d1f714) — 7/7/2017 @ 11:43 amFree market speech?
No deletions?
I thought we were in the new age of doxxicrayiv rumpublic. That’s what devoted for. Delete the derpstate poseur of democratic past.
Ben burn (d30fc3) — 7/7/2017 @ 11:43 amEven Tom Maguire has succumbed to Rumpism. His whordes applaud as democracy dies.
Ben burn (d30fc3) — 7/7/2017 @ 11:45 amGood News and Bad News From Poland
“First, the United States has drawn a red line at the Polish border, making clear that America will shed blood if need be to defend its Polish ally. Second, the line is drawn around Poland, not Ukraine. The United States is prepared to reach an agreement with Russia over Ukraine if Russia stops destabilizing Ukraine and if it leashes its Iranian dog. The United States has sent a clear message — as the president reminded his Warsaw audience — that it will not tolerate the tolerance of terror by the Saudis or other Sunni allies. We expect Russia to do the same with its Shi’ite allies.
That is tough, but realistic. Trump is willing to negotiate with the Russians, but from a position of strength, in solidarity with our allies who have suffered historically from Russian aggression, and with unambiguous lines in the sand. It was a brilliantly crafted speech, the slickest as well as the most inspiring foreign policy address of any American president since Ronald Reagan.”
https://pjmedia.com/spengler/2017/07/07/good-news-and-bad-news-from-poland/
harkin (0842fd) — 7/7/2017 @ 11:46 amAnyway. Didn’t Trump say, repeatedly, during the campaign that he had already met Putin, in a green room (of all places), they knew each other intimately, and Putin had told Trump that he (Trump) was brilliant?
nk (dbc370) — 7/7/2017 @ 11:47 amI love this “Putin is our enemy” nonsense.
Putin is the President of Russia. Russia is not a reincarnation of the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union was an expansionist totalitarian state with an avowed intention to spread Marxist communism across Europe and Asia, and attempt to stamp out capitalism wherever possible.
Russia’s only apparent intention in terms of expansion is to exert more direct influence over some of the countries on its borders — many of which have substantial ethnic Russian populations. While that’s not nothing, its not the kind of existential threat to Europe or North America that the USSR represented.
But, whereas the US has to concern itself with only 2 countries on its borders — both of which are friendly Western Democracies who are long-standing allies — Russia has international borders with 12 different countries, of varying degrees of friendliness.
Russian is a “competitor” for influence in various areas around the world, but the only real area that it has any substantial involvement are areas around its own borders, and in certain hotspots where it has military assets deployed.
But Reagan rightfully recognized the hollowness of the threat posed — not taking into account the nukes obviously — to US interests around the world if put to the test.
shipwreckedcrew (610d75) — 7/7/2017 @ 11:50 amA win. For Putin. Going in.
Regional power elevated to former status in tete-a-tete w/current superpower. Concede differences; admit nothing; agree to everything. Then take what you want. It’s the art of the deal. For two hours and ten minutes it was just like the good old days, eh comrade?!
‘Oh Vlad. We’re glad. They put some Borat in you.’ – parody from 1974 Fab detergent TV ad
____
@67. I find it disconcerting that so many are so full of anti-Trump hate they can’t find the wisdom to support the president when he’s abroad.
Why? He works for us. It’s much more disconcerting the U.S president attacked America’s free press and a former president when ‘abroad.’ Putin played him like a radio today.
____
Today’s Beldar The Bitter ‘Watergate, Watergate, Watergate’ Words Of Wonder:
“The President is calling the signals.” – President Nixon discussing Watergate cover-up strategies with John Ehrlichman, secret White House Oval Office tapes, April 14, 1973
DCSCA (797bc0) — 7/7/2017 @ 11:50 amWatergate is a kiddie pool of arrogance
This could be Epic global conflagration.
Whoopeerr!
Ben burn (d30fc3) — 7/7/2017 @ 12:00 pmPutin’s Russia is USSR 4.0, and Putin is Kruschev 2.0. If its present ambitions seem modest compared to Vietnam-era USSR, it is only because it is still weak after its 1989 collapse. If it looks like it only wants to regain its lost satellite buffer states right now, it only means that it is its first priority. Not its only aim. Other facts belie that. Its strong presence in Syria. Its reassertion in Central America and Cuba. And its covert presence all over the Western world, as exemplified by its full-bore disinformation war in Sweden and its attempt to disrupt our election.
nk (dbc370) — 7/7/2017 @ 12:01 pmi don’t understand about the goldbrick
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/7/2017 @ 12:03 pmAt 96 – SWC,
But, whereas the US has to concern itself with only 2 countries on its borders — both of which are friendly Western Democracies who are long-standing allies
that description for the one to the south can get you kicked out of some overlapping circles, just saying.
urbanleftbehind (5eecdb) — 7/7/2017 @ 12:08 pmProtein wizdumb, dorcas.
Ben burn (d30fc3) — 7/7/2017 @ 12:09 pmOne key question for Democrats is the old labor one: “Which side are you on?” The Democratic Party used to give the answer, as Harry Truman did in 1948, that it “is pledged to work for labor.” In recent decades they’ve given an answer that was essentially “all sides, for the common good.”
Ben burn (d30fc3) — 7/7/2017 @ 12:13 pmExcellent points, nk.
Patterico (a048af) — 7/7/2017 @ 12:21 pmThe recaps of the ‘big meet’ (as they say in the mob) I’ve seen mention all sorts of subjects from Syria to Eastern Europe to cyber security to terrorism but I’ve seen no mention of fake news.
Does that mean the entire ‘Trump & Putin To Bond Over Fake News’ thread was based on fake news?
If so, that would explain this new thread about something that actually happened.
harkin (0842fd) — 7/7/2017 @ 12:32 pmI guess you missed the report about Putin pointing to reporters and asking: “are these the ones who insulted you?”
Some evidence that Trump whined to Putin about his treatment by the press.
Patterico (a048af) — 7/7/2017 @ 12:36 pmWhich means the people here who confidently assured us that no such thing could possibly happen were…
…wait for it…
Fake News!
(Which is what we currently call assertions that are wrong, under today’s approved propaganda regime.)
Patterico (a048af) — 7/7/2017 @ 12:38 pmoh i get it now
Mr. Goldstein did a nevertrump article for something – before the election I believe, and then I never saw him after that
I imagine he does the twitter
i worry about him
He got a tattoo
and i think that crazy lady is back in his state
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/7/2017 @ 12:46 pm@96. I love this “Putin is our enemy” nonsense.
Except it’s not.
He is; KGB born and bred, SWC. But flotsam from a sunken ship of state.
Your characterization of Russia now versus the Soviet Union then is astonishingly simplistic if not naive.
Putin wants to make Russia great again. Sound familiar?
He wants Russia to be acknowledged as the superpower they once were. And a determined, frustrated Putin sees himself as the current means to that end. Piece by piece he’s going after it w/t backing of a still proud Russian citizenry. Once he’s gone, that craving for what once was may flame out- but for now, don’t count on it. He took Crimea w/no opposition; wants Ukraine; will keep Syria come hell and high water and is subverting as many western institutions as he can get away with. And he has Europe by the balls w/energy dependency to weaken as many NATO members as he can.
Try to picture Russia, Europe, China- and America 20 years from now. He has. He’s clever, determined– and as Patterico rightly notes- deadly ruthless, KGB style. He’s a man w/a plan. But he will die one day. Until then, as Watergate felon Chuck Colson liked to boast,“When you’ve got them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow.”
DCSCA (797bc0) — 7/7/2017 @ 12:47 pmAnd the source for nk’s apparent prescient understanding of the Russian “long-game” is??
And by what mechanism does “Russia” intend to re-assert itself as a global hegemonic power in “Phase 2”?
After all, its “collapse” was nearly 30 years ago. Does it have a more robust industrial base now than in 1985? Does it have an indigenous technology sector? Why is it importing power generators from German manufacturers to install in power plants in Crimea? Why did it sell mothballed, unfinished aircraft carriers to China?
And Cuba is a relatively small island in the Carribbean whose primary exports are sugar and tobacco. That’s the base for expansion of Russian influence in the Americas?
shipwreckedcrew (610d75) — 7/7/2017 @ 12:47 pm@99. Little Nikita? 😉
DCSCA (797bc0) — 7/7/2017 @ 12:48 pmNot for several weeks.
It’s awful that his site just disappeared.
Patterico (a048af) — 7/7/2017 @ 12:48 pmMaybe he’s a Trump aide.
Leviticus (efada1) — 7/7/2017 @ 12:51 pm@#110. See #109.
He already has most of Europe on a leash w/energy dependency. You don’t know much about today’s Russia or the ol’USSR, do you.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 7/7/2017 @ 12:54 pmDCSCA still pimping Putin like he’s more than a miniature cowboy oligarching what wealth still exists after the Plunder of the 90s. He puffs up his barrel chest with trex arms and blows bubbles like all Trumpets admire.
Ben burn (d30fc3) — 7/7/2017 @ 12:57 pmRussia’s long game started with Ivan III “The Terrible” who first unified it. In what condition was Russia when the Bolsheviks took over in 1917? More robust than in 1985? And when did they put up the first satellite, and the first man in space, and threatened to bury us? And since strength is relative, how robust is our industrial base and how robust will be our economy or China’s, vis a vis Russia’s, in forty years, particularly if Putin continues to gnaw steadily at the roots of the Western nations?
nk (dbc370) — 7/7/2017 @ 12:59 pmGazprom is a player, but pootie has little else yo play with except his Trumplike pecker so diminutive.
Ben burn (d30fc3) — 7/7/2017 @ 12:59 pmDCSCA? I’m naive? You post is LOL funny.
There are so many institutional barriers to what you claim Putin wants to accomplish, its simply crazy talk.
Six different Western countries could collapse the Russian economy if that became necessary. R
The leverage Russia has long enjoyed over Europe through energy exports is rapidly declining because of the use of nuclear power in Europe, and increased availability of oil and gas exports from the US, Canada, and Mexico.
Syria is a failed state. The only thing Russia is holding on to by propping up Assad are a couple of military bases which gives them access to the Mediterranean. But they no longer have the military resources to take advantage of those bases even if they have access to them. But Syria in its current configuration will not persist for much longer. The Syrian military has been decimated by the ongoing civil war, and given that the Alawites to which the Assad family belongs accounts for only 11% of Syria’s population, without the unwavering support of a strong and robust military, Assad’s regime won’t survive.
More likely is that an Iran-backed government, with Russian support, will eventually take over from Assad. But that will only cement in place an intractable conflict with the 70% if the Syrian population which is Sunni.
shipwreckedcrew (610d75) — 7/7/2017 @ 1:02 pmAfter all, its “collapse” was nearly 30 years ago. Does it have a more robust industrial base now than in 1985?
The Rustbelt cratered, too. Took time and a generation or two to rebuild and retool– and its still going on.
Does it have an indigenous technology sector?
America and every other western nation w/astronauts pays Russia increasing fees to ferry crews up to and back from the space station.
Why is it importing power generators from German manufacturers to install in power plants in Crimea? Why did it sell mothballed, unfinished aircraft carriers to China?
Pragmatic use of existing infrastructure on site and a garage sale.
Jaysus. Wake up and smell the borscht.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 7/7/2017 @ 1:03 pmi can’t find any proof Mr. Putin said anything about “are these the ones who insulted you” just some sleazy propaganda slut’s word for it…
Dmitri Smirnov of Komsomolskaya Pravda
so now we supposed to get our news straight from putin’s pravda now that the cnn anderson cooper fake news is discredited?
i don’t think that’s a smart idea!
i think it is fraught with possibilities of corruption and abuse
i think we have to do critical thinking skill
“are these the ones who insulted you” doesn’t sound like a for reals thing someone would say after President Trump worked so hard to make CNN the face of fake news
he even retweetered a famous gif that was very specific about CNN (the gif made it look like CNN had an rambunctious with President Trump at the place where they do the wrassles)
plus everyone knows the most insulting propaganda sluts have been the mika and the joe, and they’re on vacation right now I believe
therefore I am do skepticism on this claim the pravda is making about the exchange between Mr. Putin
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/7/2017 @ 1:04 pmand President Trump
What’s dangerous is the cyber brain trust Putin manages. Why invest in military hardware? Cost effective offensive war.
Ben burn (d30fc3) — 7/7/2017 @ 1:05 pmIt’s awful that his site just disappeared.
hrm there was a preceding attack or mishap that had demolished much of the archives
that last time it went down, I think the site needed to be brought back up, but it was definitely feasible to restore it
but he hadn’t been engaged there for sometime and most of the community had drifted away
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/7/2017 @ 1:07 pmTillerson says Trump asked TWICE about Russian hacking…
Ben burn (d30fc3) — 7/7/2017 @ 1:09 pmTrump: Were you naughty, pootie?
Putin: Nyet!
Trump: Is that a no?
@116. Bingo, nk.
“…gnaw steadily at the roots of the Western nations.” – Well phrased- descriptive and apt for Comrade Rodent.
Some here are simply ignorant about their heritage and myopic about their desires and long term goals. They’re a proud people and not keen on being pushed aside and left behind.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 7/7/2017 @ 1:13 pmHere, they drift away because I *am* engaged!
Patterico (a048af) — 7/7/2017 @ 1:14 pmPardon me while I chuckle mordantly on being lectured about skepticism and entities being discredited….by someone who believes Donald Trump is honest.
….
….
….
Bwahahahahahahahahahahah OK more than a chuckle
Patterico (a048af) — 7/7/2017 @ 1:20 pmIf you act like a clown 99% of the time you forfeit the right to be taken seriously when you try to make a serious point.
Sorry but that’s how it works
Patterico (a048af) — 7/7/2017 @ 1:20 pmWhy does everyone ignore the Cyber warfare ongoing? Bin Laden rode under radar for seemingly ever.
Ben burn (d30fc3) — 7/7/2017 @ 1:22 pmTrump is very honest in his dishonesty.
He also decorates his warts instead of excising.
Ben burn (d30fc3) — 7/7/2017 @ 1:24 pmWhat will Hugh Hewitt say:
https://mediaequalizer.com/jeff-reynolds/2017/07/exclusive-caught-red-handed-web-bug-found-in-emails-sent-by-embattled-cnn-reporter?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=socialnetwork
narciso (d1f714) — 7/7/2017 @ 1:24 pmIn many ways President Trump has been very disruptive.
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/7/2017 @ 1:25 pmBut I think he’s been remarkably forthright about his aims and aspirations.
I know most of us who love him were mostly just glad Hillary lost.
It was a dark night, election night.
But then like a radiant sun President Trump triumphed and won!
And America has never been the same.
This ends the reading.
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/7/2017 @ 1:28 pmNot disruptive, revealing.
We now know 39 percent of voters have fascist proclivities and anti democratic principles. Trump is just a zit amongst dying white cells.
Ben burn (d30fc3) — 7/7/2017 @ 1:29 pmNarco: you put stock in Yuge Nitwit? Don’t tell paramours @jom.
Ben burn (d30fc3) — 7/7/2017 @ 1:31 pmPutting things into perspective putins successes in he caucasus, are about where Catherine the great has been against the Turks, force projection in central Asia has been meager as well.
narciso (d1f714) — 7/7/2017 @ 1:32 pmOh, and a few confused former slaves.
Ben burn (d30fc3) — 7/7/2017 @ 1:34 pmPutin is low on ammo so keyboards make sense. He clobbered Chechnya, the mouse that roared.
Aim small. Miss small.
Ben burn (d30fc3) — 7/7/2017 @ 1:36 pmBut he has armies of sociopaths bleating like Breibart in concert with the same disrespect for democracy and people who don’t agree.
Ben burn (d30fc3) — 7/7/2017 @ 1:39 pmBut don’t make PuTrump bigger than 200 lbs of microbials stuffed in a suit.
They are only a threat to their bare bones support group.
Ben burn (d30fc3) — 7/7/2017 @ 1:42 pmRussia has a base of operations that starts with Cuba, extends to Nicaragua and El Salvador with node in Venezuela and Ecuador, there are Iranian approaches
narciso (d1f714) — 7/7/2017 @ 1:45 pmGuatemala and Honduras hold the line in the first, Brazil and Argentina have moved away from the second alliance.
narciso (d1f714) — 7/7/2017 @ 1:49 pmSyria has an ice free port Putin needs to keep healthy. He’s a paper tiger. Now China, has quite the truncheon.
Ben burn (d30fc3) — 7/7/2017 @ 1:49 pm106 – “I guess you missed the report about Putin pointing to reporters and asking: “are these the ones who insulted you?” Some evidence that Trump whined to Putin about his treatment by the press.”
Or that Putin is actually aware of what goes on in the U.S. without having to be informed by Trump.
So the question remains: does Putin pointing at reporters and asking “are these the ones who insulted you?” make Trump (merely by being present) monstrously disgusting, “repulsive” — and should it “make all aware citizens feel sick to their stomach”?
harkin (fcaff0) — 7/7/2017 @ 1:55 pmSince Pootie assassinates reporters during borscht breaks yeah. You should be queasy,but don’t fret. Plenty of sociopaths for company
Ben burn (d30fc3) — 7/7/2017 @ 2:00 pm39% are nativist isolationist just like the ones who delayed relief during the Battle for Britain, and ignored pleas from Europe to help the Jews.
Theyre5like sleeper cells who never sleep
Ben burn (d30fc3) — 7/7/2017 @ 2:14 pmbenburnybro / lieawatha / 2020
mg (31009b) — 7/7/2017 @ 2:19 pmThey discussed three main topics: Syria, North korea nnd computer hacking.
Trump or Tillerson brought up the hacking, Putin denied it and Trump more or less has let it go – what else can he do? He’s not giving Putin back his two spy locations and there are more sanctions
now passed by Congress. This is going to have to be combatted with technical means. Meanwhile there
are more serious immediate dangers from the hacking. And Trump knows Putin wants to spy on him.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/06/technology/search-for-clues-global-cyberattacks.html
Microsoft wants the NSA to not hoarding vulnerabilities but they don’t want to maintain security updates for Windows XP.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/03/technology/personaltech/windows-xp-cyberattack-security.html
There’s ceasefire scheduled for southwestern Syria – southwest Syria sounds like the same area that Putin is keeping out anyway of because of Israel. Otherwise a deconfliction zone has been agreed to already and we are heading toward a partition of Syria, should the United States remain interested.
North Korea – probably no progress.
Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 7/7/2017 @ 2:29 pmThis is semanticlei, people
http://narcisoscorner.blogspot.com/?view=mosaic
Below is a piece after the Myers spy arrest showing the influence of cuba in north Africa and the middle east
narciso (d1f714) — 7/7/2017 @ 2:30 pm106. Patterico (a048af) — 7/7/2017 @ 12:36 pm
He might have. It would be like Trump.
Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 7/7/2017 @ 2:34 pmI have said this before. Trump will smile at the Russians, shake their hands, and pat their backs. After the meeting they will discover their watches, rings and wallets are gone!
Brian Epps (d5cd81) — 7/7/2017 @ 2:35 pmPresident Trump has a beautiful smile
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/7/2017 @ 2:39 pmThe Cuban program WA what nit only maverick but col day thorseness admiral dentin and Stockdale were subject tie.
narciso (d1f714) — 7/7/2017 @ 2:41 pmMarco, your blog is a mess like the message.
Ben burn (d30fc3) — 7/7/2017 @ 2:43 pmThese are the folks that Mueller relied upon fir vetting:
narciso (d1f714) — 7/7/2017 @ 2:51 pmhttps://www.investigativeproject.org/6385/paranoid-terrorist-apologism-dominates-isna
Tom Maguire has been absorbed by the Collective. He resisted like mud versus the flood. If intransigence, willful blindness and rock-headed ignorance are good qualities they get some credit. But now he does their bidding without a backward glance or much focusgoing forward.
They love Patterico btw. Ask narciso.
Ben burn (d30fc3) — 7/7/2017 @ 3:00 pmSo sen. Hatch is a puppet for isna.
mg (31009b) — 7/7/2017 @ 3:02 pmMr. Maguire’s one of the few who is willing to do the analysis
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/7/2017 @ 3:08 pm*are*
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/7/2017 @ 3:09 pmSo sen. Hatch is a puppet for isna.
he’s a dickhead sarah palin thinks he’s a rooty-toot-toot but she’s stupid
and he’s a dickhead
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/7/2017 @ 3:10 pmHe’s always been good at straining gnats while gulping down tastier things the size of camels. Good pretzel logician for the Cause.
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 7/7/2017 @ 3:13 pmPlus, I know that den of LIARS! will lurk and report back like good STASI.
They say they don’t read, but LIARS! can’t really see straight.
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 7/7/2017 @ 3:17 pmpolitics is so interesting
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/7/2017 @ 3:19 pmHi swc,
Thanks for your thoughts on Putin and America. I sumbit that people who support Trump, especially his tendency to be an isolationist, are likely to agree with you that Russia and Putin are not our enemies. They are more likely to view Russia as a rival than an enemy. In that sense, what interests do we have that conflict with Russia’s if we aren’t interested in engaging with the world?
I find that view attractive since I don’t like to send our treasure and troops around the world. But there are consequences that I also don’t like, such as leaving Assad in power in Syria. We either engage in the world or we dont, but if we don’t then Russia (and China) will try to fill the void we leave. In some places and times, that will make us enemies. Or we can cede control to those other countries and we won’t be enemies at all.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/7/2017 @ 3:21 pmDid Ben burn post under another name before today? He seems very familiar, not in content but in tone.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/7/2017 @ 3:24 pmNew here, but not new. Do you comment on Justoneminute?
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 7/7/2017 @ 3:25 pmrussia’s status as a rival or an enemy depends a lot on who’s in the white house
when food stamp was in the white house and stinkypig was his secretary of state Russia was treated as a rival
now that President Trump is in office they’ve been redefined as an enemy
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/7/2017 @ 3:26 pmSubterfuge? Heh.
There’s a real feeling that that’s subterfuge to get around pre-existing conditions,” says Grassley. “If it is subterfuge and it has the effect of annihilating the pre-existing condition requirement that we have in the existing bill, than obviously I would object to that.
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 7/7/2017 @ 3:28 pmhere’s an update on cowardly senile torture victim John McCain’s corrupt influence-peddling foundation
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/7/2017 @ 3:28 pmand replace him with what, nusra front, ahram al sham, yes the peshmerga sdp hold their own, but the free Syrians, drift toward the former, than the latter,
narciso (d1f714) — 7/7/2017 @ 3:29 pmbill’s wife must be sedated not being able to pantsuit around putin.
mg (31009b) — 7/7/2017 @ 3:30 pmScience type full of Gubmint grants and other free stuff called Den frequents the Maguire pit. Just thought I’d ask.
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 7/7/2017 @ 3:34 pmI haven’t commented at JustOneMinute that I recall, but I read it when it was linked by the Instapundit. I don’t read Instapundit anymore so it’s been years since I would have read Tom Maguire. What brought you here? You have a distinctive tone.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/7/2017 @ 3:34 pmCalled Drj…
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 7/7/2017 @ 3:34 pmI have a post or two about that mishap going back to 2014,
narciso (d1f714) — 7/7/2017 @ 3:37 pmWhat else would find me commenting except the 39%?
Actually my spouse eggs me on about the Hump.
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 7/7/2017 @ 3:37 pmI’m pretty vehemently anti-Trump, and this strikes me as being a silly thing to complain about. “It’s an honor to meet with [x]” strikes me as being a meaningless diplomatic pleasantry. It’s unfair to criticize the President for that. 🙂
aphrael (e0cdc9) — 7/7/2017 @ 3:38 pmTrumpty Dumpty.
Them eggs, you know?
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 7/7/2017 @ 3:38 pm@118. There are so many institutional barriers to what you claim Putin wants to accomplish…
Except they’re not.
Frm his POV,they’re merely problems to be worked; like sovereignty. And borders. And playing off allies against each other. And undermining western institutions w/fake news and hacking. He has a plan and a goal and getting there won’t be a straight line. But his mischief’s been making a level of progress to make Leonid, Nikita and Josef smile. If you believe the United States is going to ‘save’ Western Europe by supplementing energy resources w/short term LPG deals and such you’re whistling past the graveyard. It defies logic, long term thinking and basic geography. And it’s quixotic for anybody in the West to feign otherwise. You’re one of these people who are going to have to learn the hard way about Russia. You won’t be the first- or last.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 7/7/2017 @ 3:38 pmMr. narciso suggested this is semanticleo
Mr. JD was always really good at this game
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/7/2017 @ 3:38 pmyou might want put out rat traps, I’m just saying.
narciso (d1f714) — 7/7/2017 @ 3:39 pmThe three Stooges had Cutlet and we get Shump.
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 7/7/2017 @ 3:40 pmYou go by the Captain at JOM, right?
DRJ (15874d) — 7/7/2017 @ 3:40 pmCutley ffs
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 7/7/2017 @ 3:41 pmNope. Ben. But you won’t find my deleted missives.
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 7/7/2017 @ 3:42 pm@176. “It’s an honor to meet with [x]” strikes me as being a meaningless diplomatic pleasantry. It’s unfair to criticize the President for that.
Except it’s not.
He does have a knack to cheapen value of the term, ‘honor.’
“It’s an honor to do your show, Howard.”
“It’s an honor to be on Fox and Friends.”
“It’s an honor to use your bathroom.”
“It’s an honor to be with you, Vlad.”
“It’s an honor to be my wife.”
“My name is Pussy Galore.” – Honor Blackman ‘Goldfinger’ 1964
DCSCA (797bc0) — 7/7/2017 @ 3:47 pmWhy does it matter what general mcgoo said,
http://minx.cc:1080/?post=370548
Russia is a rival power, but in and of itself it doesn’t pose the kind of the threat it was in the cold war, now the previous administration drove many powers in north Africa, and the middle east back into it’s soviet ties, al sisi and general haftar, we have begun to restore the damage that the arab spring wrought,
narciso (d1f714) — 7/7/2017 @ 3:48 pmThat’s interesting, Benjoy burn. I didn’t know there are blogs that give commenters the power to delete comments, except for the ones that gI’ve commenters a limited period of time to edit comments. Did you post there?
DRJ (15874d) — 7/7/2017 @ 3:59 pmSorry, Ben burn, not Benjoy. I wonder why autocorrect has Benjoy in its database?
DRJ (15874d) — 7/7/2017 @ 4:00 pmI don’t proofread very well, do I?
DRJ (15874d) — 7/7/2017 @ 4:00 pmI view enemies as countries and people that would hurt us if they could, narciso. I think Putin tries to hurt us whenever he can.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/7/2017 @ 4:02 pmYeah, I wonder what droob wrote captcha code to default so moronically.
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 7/7/2017 @ 4:04 pmyes, and we didn’t go to war directly with them, but in rather painful proxy actions in Vietnam, and more limited actions in central America, which the left had a conniption over, in much the same manner they protest over involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan,
narciso (d1f714) — 7/7/2017 @ 4:08 pmDrj: Many discussions with Trumpets leaves no clue as to the Zeitgeist, if that’s not too dignified for our Orange Herbert.
Don’t try. There is no thinking going on. It’s just Schadenfreude
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 7/7/2017 @ 4:08 pmHere is another view that seems to (**) agree with swc’s view of Russia and Putin.
** I’m not trying to speak for swc so it may not be what he thinks, but it is similar.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/7/2017 @ 4:13 pmSo what brought you here, Ben burn?
DRJ (15874d) — 7/7/2017 @ 4:13 pmHe’s counting on them for the 2018 midterms…
Dave (711345) — 7/7/2017 @ 4:14 pmunder stalin, sergei Kirov was killed and the usual suspects were framed, dissident white Russians were eliminated under kruschev, stashinsky executed bandera, (serge plochky’s book is very good, of course there was markov in London, under Brezhnev, none were reasons to go to war, o
narciso (d1f714) — 7/7/2017 @ 4:25 pmIf I were one of the reporters he pointed at, I’d hire a bodyguard and invest in this Geiger counter app for my iPhone…
Dave (711345) — 7/7/2017 @ 4:33 pmjust one example, this was one of the instances that occasioned William bullitt’s turn from soviet phile (he had been Wilson’s back channel,) to foe,
http://soviethistory.msu.edu/1934-2/the-kirov-affair/
narciso (d1f714) — 7/7/2017 @ 4:37 pmthis is the other example:
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/01/kgb-defection-bogdan-stashinsky-ukrainian-nationalist-soviet-union-cold-war-spy-214592
narciso (d1f714) — 7/7/2017 @ 4:39 pmNarciso keeps mentioning Patterico and quite a number go out of their way to cuddle Putin and bloviate about deep state/Patterico as One. And you?
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 7/7/2017 @ 4:40 pmDrj you don’t seem interested in specific topics.
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 7/7/2017 @ 4:42 pmBe careful with Ben (burn). He can turn troll if crossed. He also tries to engage from time to time.
He’s here because a lot of the JOM regulars who can’t stomach Trump have ended up here.
Appalled (1a17de) — 7/7/2017 @ 4:42 pmNot so much russophiles(enemy of my enemy-domestic leftists) as they are FRANCOPHILES and I don’t mean the French.
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 7/7/2017 @ 4:44 pmI don’t cotton people talking like I’m not in the room appalled.
You can address me directly when I’m not taking fire from my flank
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 7/7/2017 @ 4:47 pmPresident Trump has many good qualities
whereas John Podesta brings a lot to the party mostly when you need to soak some corks
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/7/2017 @ 4:47 pmDilbert: Solving the North Korea Situation. Interesting idea. Ukraine gave up its Soviet nukes under a similar security arrangement with Russia, Germany, Britain and the US. Today’s Syrian gambit may be the precursor to something like this.
crazy (11d38b) — 7/7/2017 @ 4:49 pmBen burn is Semanticleo. People who frequented this blog nearly 10 years ago might remember him.
Ben, you need to calm down a bit and take a breath between comments. Give other people a chance to talk.
Patterico (a048af) — 7/7/2017 @ 4:50 pmNo problem. Just wanted to get a few things off my chest.
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 7/7/2017 @ 4:52 pmand there’s georgi markov,
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2158765/Poison-tip-umbrella-assassination-of-Georgi-Markov-reinvestigated.html
one might say the closest parallel to Litvinenko and some suggest berezovsky,
narciso (d1f714) — 7/7/2017 @ 4:53 pmwhy can’t we just nuke the norks would that be wrong
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/7/2017 @ 4:53 pmJust scrolled back through the comments and noticed someone saying narciso had Ben pegged as Semanticleo. Pretty sharp of him! That is indeed exactly who it is.
narciso, despite his screwed up keyboard and odd writing style, is a very intelligent guy, IMO.
Patterico (a048af) — 7/7/2017 @ 4:54 pmDid I ever ban you, SemanticBenBurnLeo? I can’t remember.
Patterico (a048af) — 7/7/2017 @ 4:55 pmNo president has had those balls since Truman, happyfeet.
mg (31009b) — 7/7/2017 @ 4:57 pmR.I.P. Joan Lee, wife of Stan Lee. Age 95, following a stroke. They had been married 69 years.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/joan-lee-dead-wife-marvel-comics-legend-stan-lee-was-95-1018951
Kevin M (752a26) — 7/7/2017 @ 5:05 pmI don’t recall. Funnily semanti*Leo cannot be in any text @JoM it strikes such fear, lol
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 7/7/2017 @ 5:10 pmcrazy, the Dilbert Deal won’t work. North Korea has already solemnly promised to give up its nuclear ambitions twice, and reneged both times. There is no solution that leaves the Kims in power.
Kevin M (752a26) — 7/7/2017 @ 5:12 pmAll you have to do pretty much is leave my job out of it and don’t be rude to the long-time respected commenters. Otherwise I am pretty flexible, probably too flexible actually.
Patterico (a048af) — 7/7/2017 @ 5:15 pmI feel like maybe you were a dick to JD but he isn’t here.
Patterico (a048af) — 7/7/2017 @ 5:16 pmI agree, Kevin M. The Ukraine and Libyan deals to give up nukes didn’t hold up either and neither did the British deal to return Hong Kong to China. Nevertheless, if we’re not willing to fight and I don’t think we are Tillerson and Mattis are going to have to craft some kind of mutually beneficial deal.
crazy (11d38b) — 7/7/2017 @ 5:21 pmI’m not sure what you mean. You have an interesting style, so I was curious about you.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/7/2017 @ 5:21 pmthis is like a cocktail party but where you don’t have to pay for it so you should say things good (no churlish) to where there’s no provocative like in the living room! just like how in your house you don’t let the dogs on the furniture cause it wastes your time and annoys the pig your mileage may vary
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/7/2017 @ 5:25 pmBeen dickish plenty but for returning the serve. I leave it to the words and some take exception. Is that an MP or YP?
Ben burn (d30fc3) — 7/7/2017 @ 5:30 pmoh dear
they tried so hard to come up with 3 cute noko chicks
we should nuke them for otto but maybe get the one cute chick out first
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/7/2017 @ 5:32 pmjudging by her hat she must be the omelette chef
i bet she’s never done one with avocado
oh the places you will go, sun poopi
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/7/2017 @ 5:35 pmMarcy wading in finally.
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 7/7/2017 @ 5:39 pmhttps://www.emptywheel.net/2017/07/07/trump-was-worried-hr-mcmaster-or-fiona-hill-would-spy-on-his-conversation-with-putin/
That’s almost as cryptic as narciso. I’m going to have to confess that I don’t follow.
I reviewed some of your old comments here from 2008. They don’t seem crazy over the top — at least that I saw. Anyway welcome back. Please be careful not to put words in my mouth. That is my current pet peeve. I am not saying you have but I am saying I do not want anyone to do that.
Patterico (a048af) — 7/7/2017 @ 5:42 pmhe thought they liked him for his personality,
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/07/probe-launched-french-president-emmanuel-macrons-lavish-las/
narciso (d1f714) — 7/7/2017 @ 5:46 pmThe navel gazing and word parsing for Trump might be unmatched in human history.
But not shocking from our lawyerly class who waste gazillions of hours and money using words to obfuscate and mislead and further create “demand” for their “services.”
Blah (44eaa0) — 7/7/2017 @ 5:47 pmThe most flexible thing in the world is the meaning of a word in the hands of a good lawyer.
Blah (44eaa0) — 7/7/2017 @ 5:48 pmMP-My problem- Your problem?
My meanness is defensive.Is there a problem with prose that’s descriptive and not profane
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 7/7/2017 @ 5:48 pmdailybeast and the nyt have an abundance of conservatives who live and die on what they make up
mg (31009b) — 7/7/2017 @ 5:52 pmOT: Takes a Graduate Degree in the Humanities and Lawyers to make this abomination happen …
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3972232/britains-first-pregnant-man-gives-birth-to-baby-girl/
So a women who decides to call herself a man has a baby using a turkey baster and somehow this became “Man has a baby.”
No joke, a mentally ill Psychologist and equally degenerate Lawyer walked hand in hand to introduce this into society and law.
No I have to refer to him as mom-dad or something.
Thanks.
Blah (44eaa0) — 7/7/2017 @ 5:56 pm#233 Chick is free do whatever she wants but she has no right to make me call her “dude.”
I got rights too ya know?
Blah (44eaa0) — 7/7/2017 @ 5:57 pmThat’s almost as cryptic as narciso.
There seems to be more of this impressionist commentary lately.
Kevin M (752a26) — 7/7/2017 @ 6:08 pmhttp://thefederalist.com/2017/07/07/trump-critics-ooda-loop-please-get-one/
mg (31009b) — 7/7/2017 @ 6:13 pmHey Pooterico!! Just stopped in to wish you and your new friend Ben Dana Ward Gilbert Cleo, best wishes in your future endeavors together. Pootie, do you remember what you were like, before you went THE FULL CHARLES JOHNSON?? It was heart warming to see you welcome your new friend, AFTER reviewing his posts, going back 9 years, and the concluding, that Ben Dana Ward Cleo Gilbert, isn’t wasn’t….. “Crazy!! nor “Over the top”.
Take care Poot. You chose the wrong side and you SOILED yourself.
GUS (30b6bd) — 7/7/2017 @ 6:18 pmmuch as with participant media,funded by Dubai, which gets it money from oil and gas, praising the skydragon, on a show ostensibly about latin music
https://twitter.com/DailyCaller/status/883393467254153216
narciso (d1f714) — 7/7/2017 @ 6:28 pmThis energy order is good news from the Trump Administration.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/7/2017 @ 6:29 pmIt primarily matters in the Western states where there are federal lands with oil and gas interests, but it’s good news for O&G interests in those states.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/7/2017 @ 6:30 pm(This goes to show how virulently anti-energy the Obama administration was.)
harvardtrash on-his-knees p.o.s. soros-fellator wasn’t that sophisticated
he hated the holy hell out of red states is all
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/7/2017 @ 6:39 pmthis was the reason for the sagebrush revolt 40 years ago,
http://legalinsurrection.com/2017/07/9th-circuit-denies-hawaii-request-for-emergency-injunction-over-trump-travel-order/
narciso (d1f714) — 7/7/2017 @ 6:59 pmthat was really they went after james watt, his poor choice of words were just gravy,
http://www.azer.com/aiweb/categories/magazine/92_folder/92_articles/92_kirov.html
narciso (d1f714) — 7/7/2017 @ 7:09 pmMore good news from another part of the Trump Administration:
Also, the 9th Circuit told Hawaii that it did not have jurisdiction to decide what the Supreme Court meant by “bona fide relationship” in the travel ban case. I think that’s a big win for Trump.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/7/2017 @ 7:10 pmthis is part of the same pattern I illustrated earlier,
http://www.weeklystandard.com/iran-still-on-the-hunt-for-nuclear-weapons-technology-across-germany/article/2008747
narciso (d1f714) — 7/7/2017 @ 7:12 pmDRJ,
The other two orders mentioned concerning Alaskan drilling on the North Slope and rescission of numerous Obamacide regs covering the Outer Continental Shelf may prove to have a higher impact than today’s order.
I’m very curious as to the amount of oil available under the Chukchi Sea and Zinke appears to have a plan which allows the question to be answered.
Rick Ballard (5397ef) — 7/7/2017 @ 7:13 pmcaution skydragons in flight, but regardless,
http://www.groundtruthtrekking.org/Issues/AlaskaOilandGas/ChukchiSeaOilandGasDevelopment.html
narciso (d1f714) — 7/7/2017 @ 7:18 pmThere are several blue/purple states with significant federal lands, hf. For instance, Texas has virtually no federal lands compared to the Western states. This order only applies to federal lands.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/7/2017 @ 7:19 pmYou may be right, Rick, but I would be surprised to see any significant increase in Alaska drilling. It’s too expensive to be profitable at current prices, and there are many other more profitable areas for production.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/7/2017 @ 7:21 pmah
nevada and california wouldn’t know sovereignty if it baked them a lovely marbled lemon tart with sage cornmeal crust
i still wanna see pyramid lake though
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/7/2017 @ 7:22 pmif you git them robots to drill you don’t have to pay for their sass
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/7/2017 @ 7:25 pmwhat’s the point exactly of the right working so hard to make “Linda Sarsour” famous
i couldn’t pick the skank out of a lineup of smurfs
but again no i do not have cable
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/7/2017 @ 7:38 pmMore good legal news, although this involves Texas and not Trump:
Licensed gun owners have been able to carry in Texas public college classrooms since Fall 2016.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/7/2017 @ 7:42 pmThis week, Trump’s first-ever meeting with Putin at the G-20 has put me much in mind of a book I read a few years ago, Frederick Kempe’s “Berlin 1961.” As Kempe describes it in an “Author Q&A”:
Much of the book focuses on the disastrous Vienna Summit. It portrays JFK — who thought himself quite the scholar and historian — as cocky, naive, and unprepared before the summit. But it credits him with recognizing immediately thereafter that he’d screwed up, and that Khrushchev had sized him up (accurately, and consistently with Ike’s worst fears) as a callow youth who could be pushed around.
If Putin beat up Trump as badly in their meeting today as Khruschev beat up Jack Kennedy, would Trump be self-aware enough to know it? When I heard that the meeting had run very long, much longer than planned by our side, I immediately thought: Trump must be talking about his favorite subject, himself. Yes, the POTUS apparently decided, on his own and against advice, to more than double the length of his voluntary submission to interrogation by a former KGB agent.
I’ve mentioned here before that through the Longhorn Band at UT-Austin, I share a whole bunch of friends and mutual acquaintances with Secretary of State Tillerson, an LBH percussion section leader who graduated just before I started in the band. I listened to his and Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin’ audio-only press conference after the meeting, and I found myself considerably reassured: As Tillerson pointed out, although it was Trump’s first time to meet with Putin, Tillerson has met with him — and negotiated with him — many times. With the prior episodes of Trump being a bit too blabby with the Russians (as if he could ever be anything but that, which of course, he can’t), I’m sure that Tillerson was duly sensitized to the dangers of this confrontation. One can only hope that he was able to steer the POTUS away from major blunders, but if he didn’t, we wouldn’t hear about it today.
But we’ll hear about it tomorrow, as leaked to the WaPo or the NYT, by someone downstream at State or Treasury or even at the WH. Because that’s the reality-show world we live in now — a world that makes the Cold War-era world of 1961 seem so clear and simple by comparison, really.
Beldar (fa637a) — 7/7/2017 @ 7:52 pmi always knew where that creepy damn tower was when i was there
and damn skippy i know the places where snipers might could be between the subway and my office in chicago
but i remember back at UT me and someone
we rode the elevator up to the president’s office in the main building
up up up to the president’s office
and it’s shockingly small
the elevator spits you out into the reception area and you’d have just a few steps to walk to that desk, and behind that there was an open door into the president’s office
very nice carpet though – was it green? can’t remember, but it was very
lush
we just got a glimpse and said oops wrong floor
but i bet it’s a bit harder to get up there now
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/7/2017 @ 8:02 pmright, that’s only if you look as berlin in grandular detail as kempe does, (btw president of the atlantic council, which has some bearing on other matters) as opposed to the pattern from playa giron to laos, that was certainly the way james burnham, national review’s strategy editor saw it by the time he wrote suicide of the west
narciso (d1f714) — 7/7/2017 @ 8:03 pmand the confidence you have the account in Bezos or carlos slim will be true, as opposed to tillerson is what 50/50 40/60?
narciso (d1f714) — 7/7/2017 @ 8:05 pmcertainly this is the big picture,
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/10631/eastern-europe-islam-civilization
narciso (d1f714) — 7/7/2017 @ 8:06 pmI don’t have any difficulty understanding narciso. Ben’s comments remind me a little too much of Happyfeet, especially when they both dominated this thread.
NJRob (7f4bec) — 7/7/2017 @ 8:08 pmThis is where Trump’s habit of never fulfilling a deal he makes could be a good thing.
nk (dbc370) — 7/7/2017 @ 8:08 pmGus,
you’re an idiot. That is all.
NJRob (7f4bec) — 7/7/2017 @ 8:09 pmShe’s a jihadist that is being pushed by the left as a respectable islamic leader. Make them own her.
NJRob (7f4bec) — 7/7/2017 @ 8:12 pmmy goodness you have a mean streak
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/7/2017 @ 8:12 pmI think she’s the spitting image of Ted Cruz. Linda Sansour. What do you guys think?
nk (dbc370) — 7/7/2017 @ 8:21 pmoh man that’s creepy
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/7/2017 @ 8:29 pmthat strikes me as a fairly definitive assessment
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/7/2017 @ 8:32 pmSeeing as the nazgul has been papering that other blog, with interminably long tracts of nutroots and worse, seeing hieche prenteded to have a son who died in Iraq and how me mucked the deaths of two of ourclose friends, Gus’s reaction is mild by comparison.
Yes sarsour hams fan girl, thinks jihad is something everyone engages in like pilates or crissfit was the face of the woman’s march, what could go wrong?
narciso (d1f714) — 7/7/2017 @ 8:36 pmI listened to his [Tillerson] and Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin’ audio-only press conference after the meeting, and I found myself considerably reassured…
Agreeing to not ‘re-litigate’ past differences and to press forward is hardly “reassuring.” It is, in fact, another win for Putin.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 7/7/2017 @ 8:36 pmCourtney Love? Are you sh!tting us, happyfeet? Courtney Freaking [literally] Love?
nk (dbc370) — 7/7/2017 @ 8:39 pmfun fact: she screwed kurt cobain at least the once
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/7/2017 @ 8:40 pmIf there were an election for “vile disgrace to women and all mankind”, and Courtney Love declared her candidacy, I would not only vote for her I would also volunteer for, and donate the maximum amount to, her campaign. Courtney Love? To find a viler disgrace to women than Courtney Love, you’d have to go to a maximum security women’s prison.
nk (dbc370) — 7/7/2017 @ 8:45 pmAre there maximum security women’s prisons? Somehow, I have the impression that there are none because women’s idea of security is different from men’s.
nk (dbc370) — 7/7/2017 @ 8:47 pmThe premise related here:
http://www.claremont.org/crb/basicpage/if-destruction-be-our-lot
Yes when the going gets weird, the weird go pro
narciso (d1f714) — 7/7/2017 @ 8:52 pmDavid horowitz is probablynhis successor in outlook:
narciso (d1f714) — 7/7/2017 @ 8:57 pmhttp://www.unc.edu/depts/diplomat/AD_Issues/amdipl_17/articles/sempa_burnham3.html
@18 Dave
You are not Laslo.
Pinandpuller (97d57c) — 7/7/2017 @ 8:59 pmI read maybe 8-10 comments from around 2008.
I do remember thinking the guy had been a dick to JD. But it’s been a while and I don’t remember the details.
Patterico (a048af) — 7/7/2017 @ 9:12 pmOne of my sister’s friends from college was introduced to heroin while dating C. Love some years before her marriage to Cobain. He actually would call my mom’s house from time to time looking for my sister. The calls stopped and sure enough we learned he OD’d.
urbanleftbehind (2c7224) — 7/7/2017 @ 9:13 pmOT but pert to the Longhorns here…is it wrong that UT athlethics pulled this? http://www.chron.com/sports/longhorns/article/Horns-Up-Limes-In-Corona-sponsor-Texas-Longhorns-11266845.php
urbanleftbehind (2c7224) — 7/7/2017 @ 9:17 pm#277 usually good news when that happens. Good for your sister and your family.
Blah (44eaa0) — 7/7/2017 @ 9:27 pm39% are nativist isolationist just like [George Washington] Ben burn (d30fc3) — 7/7/2017 @ 2:14 pm
Pinandpuller (97d57c) — 7/7/2017 @ 9:44 pmThat is impressive.
Patterico (115b1f) — 7/7/2017 @ 9:55 pmYou never saw it when you were here? It’s right off the 5. Any time you go up north you pass right by it.
Patterico (115b1f) — 7/7/2017 @ 9:57 pmi always planned to see it from the nevada side
i’m not an interstate person
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/7/2017 @ 9:59 pmOh. Different Pyramid Lake.
Patterico (115b1f) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:01 pmi was wondering
the 5 i only took one time past santa barbara and that was for yosemite
but me and NG used to go to SB at least once a year for to get a break from the office see some clients and do la super rica (thanks mb :))
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:05 pm@233 Blah
Babies and mammographers hate hairy nipples.
Pinandpuller (97d57c) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:06 pmthere was a thrift store down the way from super rica we both got these super neat vintage christmas decorations at
the wind-up kind with snow globes
mine must be packed somewheres
Mr. puller these trannies is bad new pls to sign my petition
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:08 pmis bad *news* i mean
not bad new
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:10 pmI don’t have any difficulty understanding narciso. Ben’s comments remind me a little too much of Happyfeet, especially when they both dominated this thread.
NJRob (7f4bec) — 7/7/2017 @ 8:08 pm
It could be happyfeet has a twin who wears an evil goatee and capitalizes.
Pinandpuller (97d57c) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:16 pm@264 nk
Was Ted Cruz a fan of the RHPS? I think head scarves and rouge are a mixed message.
Pinandpuller (97d57c) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:20 pmthat album cover reminders me of guerrero viejo
persistent lil church huh
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:20 pmIs Courtney Love Jewish?
Pinandpuller (97d57c) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:22 pmi was wondering that too
she gets points either way but i’m curious
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:25 pm@271 nk
Courtney Love is a triple threat: a disgrace to women, music and acting. I’m guessing she wasn’t really acting in The People vs Larry Flynt.
Pinandpuller (97d57c) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:25 pm@288 happyfeet
Did their new tranny smell wear off?
Pinandpuller (97d57c) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:29 pmthey just don’t add any value do i have to draw a picture
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:31 pm@294 happyfeet
Wish her Merry Christmas and if she spits in your face we won’t be any closer to knowing if she’s Jewish. Especially since it’s July.
Pinandpuller (97d57c) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:32 pmright?
welcome to my nightmare
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:33 pmdid we know leggy meggy’s britain is enduring a bit of a butter shortage?
nobody tells me anything
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/7/2017 @ 10:42 pmnk and DCSCA:
For your consideration, I provide the following link to an interesting analysis of Putin from reputable Russian journalists, according to the New Yorker — hardly a WH friendly news site.
Excerpts:
I would provide a link, but its been so long since I did one I can’t remember how.
But the author is Joshua Yaffa.
shipwreckedcrew (d40275) — 7/7/2017 @ 11:33 pmAnother excerpt from same story:
shipwreckedcrew (d40275) — 7/8/2017 @ 12:26 amFor a guy who is supposed to be Putin’s puppet, Trump sure seems to do things that Putin hates.
For anyone who supported Obama to suggest it is just projection.
Kevin M (752a26) — 7/8/2017 @ 12:40 amPatrick @ 106:
I would note that the reporting on Putin’s comment says that it was a comment he made PRIOR to their meeting, during the initial handshake and greeting that was in the presence of reporters.
So, contrary to your suggestion — which was likely made before it was clear when the comment was made — it was not the product of any “bonding” behind the scenes over “fake news.”
Frankly, taking a more Machievellian view of Putin’s comment, I might surmise that it was a planned effort by the Russians meant to suggest some level of empathy by Putin towards Trump, done for the purpose of baiting Trump critics who, in advance, spoke out about the horrors that might result if anything other than a fistfight broke out between Trump and Putin.
shipwreckedcrew (d40275) — 7/8/2017 @ 12:40 amI hope that President Trump invites his pal Vlad to the whitehouse for a state dinner. That should send the movie stars into orbit.
mg (31009b) — 7/8/2017 @ 2:40 amhttp://www.floppingaces.net/2017/07/07/left-wing-media-shoots-itself-in-the-foot-again/
mg (31009b) — 7/8/2017 @ 3:40 amhttp://americanlookout.com/another-democrat-corruption-trial-is-about-to-start-the-media-is-ignoring-it/
mg (31009b) — 7/8/2017 @ 3:40 amCan Trump put a new chief justice in charge? Roberts is just another colossal screw up by booooosh.
mg (31009b) — 7/8/2017 @ 3:51 amTexas deserves better.
mg (31009b) — 7/8/2017 @ 3:55 amHere is a link to the New Yorker article by Joshua Yaffe that was mentioned by shipwreckcrew, above.
It describes Putin’s leadership as chaotic and egotistical. I’m not sure why you seem to think that description would be difficult for us to believe, swc. It seems to be the norm for modern world leaders.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/8/2017 @ 5:26 amI’m pretty sure the term “cult of personality” originated in the Soviet Union, some time during the post-Stalin renunciations, revisionism and purges. But it’s nothing new. All successful rulers need it. Pick any one. From Peisistratos to Obama.
In any political system, and just about any gathering of human beings is a political system, the appearance of power is power. (Alinsky did not invent the concept and it was new only to some college sophomores.) It would be a mistake to think of it as “sizzle and not steak”. People follow the man who, in their minds, is the strong man who runs things, gets things done, and would be dangerous to disobey.
Dictators flourish in chaos, as long as it’s a manageable amount that they can arise above and pursue their agenda while maintaining their own position. If nothing else, it keeps their potential rivals too busy competing with each other for the advancement of their little fiefdoms and the dictator’s favor to consolidate enough power to challenge him. From a positive point of view, it keeps the government from stagnating by weeding out the lackadaisical and incompetent and advancing the energetic and capable.
And none of these things make the dictatorship any less dangerous to its neighbors. Post-Spartacus Republican Rome was a very chaotic place politically. And nobody suffered more at that time, in the hands of ambitious would-be imperators than Rome’s neighbors near and far, from Pontus to Britain.
nk (dbc370) — 7/8/2017 @ 6:05 amPerhaps but the concept owes itself to the rousseau conception of the general will, typified by napoleon, Hitler and mussolini imbibed some of those vapors. The latter directly since he was a socialist. Ukrainian and balkan politics in the interwar era like the oun and the ustache had similar routes as with peron in south America.
But the question of hacker syndicates like shaltar boltoi and their relation to the state is a curious one. They employ state resources but their motives are often at odds, its like separating early Al queda and their facilitators in Arabia or nusra front and qatar
narciso (d1f714) — 7/8/2017 @ 6:33 am“Trump mounted a wide-ranging and spirited defense of core Western values and achievements. It’s not just that we are rich and powerful. It is also that we cherish such enabling civilizational values as individual liberty, the rule of law, the political equality of women, religious freedom, and a generous and innovative spirit of curiosity and exploration. “If we don’t forget who are,” Trump said. “we just can’t be beaten.” . . .
These were the sentiments that wretched Lefties like Peter Beinart, writing in The Atlantic, castigated as evidence of “The Racial and Religious Paranoia.” “Donald Trump referred 10 times to ‘the West,’” quoth Beinart, “and five times to ‘our civilization,’” as if that was evidence of some especially twisted perspective.
It was the same throughout the gigantic and odiferous midden of “progressive” commentary. A writer for Slate screamed about “the white nationalist roots” of the speech, Eugene Robinson emitted his usual incontinent drivel in The Washington Post, sniffing about Trump’s historical ignorance and cultural chauvinism, and a former Obama advisor picked up the baton to warn about Trump’s “Dark Views Of Clash Of Civilizations.”
What would these pathetic tools have to say about Pericles’s funeral oration, delivered near the beginning of the Peloponnesian War, when the great statesman addressed the people of Athens to commemorate their war dead and remind them of what made their city such a distinctive and admirable place?”
https://amgreatness.com/2017/07/07/donald-trump-pericles/
.
I’m as honored that The President (first time I’ve called him that) spoke those words as I am relieved it’s not Madame Leader telling Europe to eliminate all borders and seize the wealth.
harkin (536957) — 7/8/2017 @ 6:38 amAs for Putin being a “reformed Communist”, he is third-generation Bolshevik and Chekist, for crying out loud. We already know he was was KGB. His grandfather was on the household staffs of both Lenin and Stalin. His father was NKVD under Stalin and survived into the “reformed” KGB. (Although he may have been officially dead around the time of Putin”s birth. He was also a Vladimir, and in that part of the world, children are usually named after their fathers only posthumously.)
Granted that Soviet biographies are about as reliable as offers of money from Nigerian princes.
nk (dbc370) — 7/8/2017 @ 6:44 amProbably but the animating principle of communism state control. Of resogurces, is nit in his repertoire, this makes him mire like the pinochet that some. Russian liberals clamored for in the Moscow chaos. Much mire a Von paper figure, to use an interwar parallel.
narciso (d1f714) — 7/8/2017 @ 6:48 amThe only difference I saw between Soviet Communism and capital “F” Fascism was the existence of a vibrant middle-class, or petite bourgeoisie if you wish, where the bosses labor alongside their workers, even if it is as ten-figure CEOs. (Lenin and Stalin were fully one-man rule Leaders, and everything was within the State.) But where the Communists exterminated the middle class thinking they could have a sustainable economy of workers and commissars, the Fascists saw them as the central pillar of the State.
nk (dbc370) — 7/8/2017 @ 7:01 amOk, eight-figure CEOs. 😉
nk (dbc370) — 7/8/2017 @ 7:04 am“We already know he was was KGB. ”
U huh. Now he’s Orthodox. Another populist is born. Didn’t Trump morph into Huey Long?
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 7/8/2017 @ 7:27 amhttp://babalublog.com/2017/07/08/breaking-news-venezuelan-opposition-leader-leopoldo-lopez-released-3from-prison
narciso (d1f714) — 7/8/2017 @ 7:31 amWhat to do when ‘submit button is hidden by text..suggestions?
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 7/8/2017 @ 7:42 amHistory seems to rhyme, to a degree
narciso (d1f714) — 7/8/2017 @ 7:45 amIntellectualizing Trump is to misunderstand his appeal. Don’t think.
Just emote.
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 7/8/2017 @ 7:57 amPatterico: you respond to GUS?
You won’t have issues w/Ben.
But Gus has more odious consorts, so..
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 7/8/2017 @ 8:12 amThat is so true. One must save the intellectualizing for such deep thinkers as Hillary or Sanders. Two corrupt charlatans preaching income equality while stealing millions. Now there’s something to intellectualize about. Or how about Agore? He’s an intellectual of the first water. He’s writing a new book “An Inconvenient Sequel: Truth to Power” is humanity’s last chance to save the Earth before it ends five years ago. Yeah, let’s intellectualize over politicians.
Rev.Hoagie® (630eca) — 7/8/2017 @ 8:17 amnk @313 — Flourishing internally through chaos is a very different accomplishment than pushing hegemony beyond your borders.
The point I made is that Putin’s Russia is really incapable of being an “enemy” of the US in the same manner as the USSR was during the Cold War, which you disagreed with in #99, and then backed up by DCSCA is #109.
But the article suggests in very strong terms that independent journalists in Russian who have been studying Putin for the 20+ years he’s been in power don’t see any “grand plan” at work.
Russia is no more capable to reasserting itself across Europe and Asia than France is of regaining control of “IndoChina”. The Russians as a people might want that, as a nation and government they don’t have the ability to do so.
If, on the other hand, the US was really looking to identify who in the world might be an actual “enemy”, that would be China.
shipwreckedcrew (d40275) — 7/8/2017 @ 8:26 amYou sound bitter reverend.
Did you vote Green?
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 7/8/2017 @ 8:28 amnk @314.
What’s the problem with Nigerian Prince money? I’m expecting a big deposit coming from the State Bank of Lagos on Monday.
shipwreckedcrew (d40275) — 7/8/2017 @ 8:29 amAnyone have an idea why antiabortion has been extended to contraception hate?
Need for baby-battered cannon fodder for wars of choice. Or a temporary alliance between Papists and protestants?
Ben burn (5dd238) — 7/8/2017 @ 8:33 amYrs look how the brief incursion in the donbas has taxed them, they’ve been able to do more in Syria marginally using airpower, but durable proxies as in chechnya are hated to cone by.
narciso (d1f714) — 7/8/2017 @ 8:35 amThe lack of any screaming headlines this morning having to do with the Trump/Putin meeting is hysterical. The Anti-Trump crowd had worked themselves into a frenzy before the meeting over fear that Trump was going to sign over Manhattan to Putin once he came within reach of Putin’s KBG mind-control tactics.
But this morning they got nothing to write about.
What’s a TDS headache feel like — you know, after indulging for hours or days on end, and then having nothing left to keep the buzz going?
shipwreckedcrew (d40275) — 7/8/2017 @ 8:37 amYes its kind of near beer, mostly complaining about ivanka
How do think the conversration with volodya actually went
After some protestations, I imagine from him, trump said there better not be anything like this again, a state connected hack of our infrastructure or even a mole in our intelligence will be considered a severe provocation.
narciso (d1f714) — 7/8/2017 @ 8:44 amActually Trump has passed Peak Poutrage some time ago. I’m starting to feel sympathy for his family.
Ben burn (5dd238) — 7/8/2017 @ 8:46 amIt’s fart-joke fatigue. First you run of gas, then the humorous nature of offending your neighbors goes stale like the odor of antisocial behaviours.
Ben burn (5dd238) — 7/8/2017 @ 8:50 amThere is another view, swc. Putin’s Grand Plan:
This was written last year when Obama was President. Putin undoubtedly savored Obama’s fecklessness and ignorance about Russian goals. But now even Democrats realize Putin is a master tactician with a global strategy.
For decades, Russia has felt threatened by the destabilizing forces of democracy and capitalism. Putin knows his best chance to consolidate power at home and in his region is by destabilizing the West (which is why Putin wants to meddle in our elections and institutions). Trump’s recent speech about the importance of the West was aimed at Putin, not Trump’s base, but Trump’s isolationist rhetoric at home suit Putin’s goals to a T.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/8/2017 @ 8:51 amWhy are you so insulting, shipwreckedcrew? It’s not helpful to talk this way. Are you emulating Trump or is something wrong?
DRJ (15874d) — 7/8/2017 @ 8:53 amNo they don’t teary its just their ox was gored, that’s all.
narciso (d1f714) — 7/8/2017 @ 8:54 amDrj: does the ‘submit button ever get obscured by your text? Thx.
Ben burn (5dd238) — 7/8/2017 @ 8:54 amI appreciate a discussion with someone who disagrees with me. It makes me think and study subjects more seriously than a chorus of approval — something Trump needs to learn. But you are not serious when you act like a Trump cheerleader instead of a thoughtful person. It’s disappointing because I know you can hold your own with anyone.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/8/2017 @ 8:56 amNo, Ben burn, I’ve never had that happen. But I have had similar weird things happen. My guess is there is something in your settings, perhaps in the size of your font?
Does it happen anyplace else? Check out another WordPress blog and see if it happens there. It may be something about WordPress. If not, you may have to reset your computer/tablet settings.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/8/2017 @ 9:00 amThat column is nearly incoherent.
Just so I’m clear — Putin is playing the Russian Nationalism card to curry favor with the European Right Wing against the influx of immigrants from North Africa, and he’s playing the Anti-American card to curry favor with the European left wing because they are Greenies against fracking.
He’s encouraging refugees from Syria to flood into Italy and other southern European countries, as well as immigration from Africa which has the largest rate of population increases.
All to destabilize the current European democracies and the EU, in hopes of driving them into the arms of the Kremlin.
Ok then.
shipwreckedcrew (d40275) — 7/8/2017 @ 9:00 amDrj: apologies for my ‘responses. I thought you were trolling me. Bad habit defensively..
Ben burn (5dd238) — 7/8/2017 @ 9:01 amI point pout kirov, bandera, and markov much more profile network targets, yet the west still worked with the soviet’s, I could also mention krivitsky, his the one that forced chambers out of the cold informed of soviet penetrations in the us got to Perle nothing was dine. Threes the Chapman ring that was perilously close to red queens network that’s in the modern era
narciso (d1f714) — 7/8/2017 @ 9:02 amLuckily we had an inside man in that network that’s what Matthews red sparrow is ostensibly about with some tweaks
Ben is like one of voldermorts minions dry we thought they were merely fools
narciso (d1f714) — 7/8/2017 @ 9:05 amThe point I made is that Putin’s Russia is really incapable of being an “enemy” of the US in the same manner as the USSR was during the Cold War, which you disagreed with in #99, and then backed up by DCSCA is #109.
I understand, and I would agree if we qualify it with “for the time being”. I am looking ahead to twenty years from now and maybe as little as ten, as Putin makes Russia stronger and the West weaker.
And I totally agree with you about China. Not only are they a people who really understand the “long game, but they’re not far from breathing down our necks right now. In a sense, they are Russia’s strongest ally both in weakening our economy generally and making us squander more of our GNP on additional military spending.
nk (dbc370) — 7/8/2017 @ 9:05 amBy the way, Ben burn, it’s off-topic but I don’t think most pro-life folks hate contraception. I do think some have problems with Plan B. It’s called contraception but it can prevent implantation of a fertilized egg, something its supporters don’t like to talk about.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/8/2017 @ 9:08 am“Ben is like one of voldermorts minions dry we thought they were merely fools”
Somehow if I could decrypt I feel it would require a linguistic lash.
Ben burn (5dd238) — 7/8/2017 @ 9:08 amPutin will not be there forever, who will be the successor, rogozin, lavrov, teddy bear kiss
narciso (d1f714) — 7/8/2017 @ 9:10 amLeak? I would say we need our military at least. Up to world war 2 levels
http://www.salon.com/2017/01/07/a-new-war-on-birth-control-trumps-victory-has-empowered-the-sex-scolds/
SexPolice Drj.
Ben burn (5dd238) — 7/8/2017 @ 9:11 amI also agree with nk that China is a greater threat to America, as is North Korea and terrorism. But I like to think the America leaders and military can address both current and emerging threats.
For this duscussion, my main point is that Russia is a threat and not a friend.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/8/2017 @ 9:12 amThere were no denunciations by American Presidents in the meetings between Eisenhower/Khrushchev and Nixon/Brezhnev regarding the crushing of Hungarian freedom fighters and extinguishing the Prague Spring, respectively. Nor were they in Kennedy’s speech in 1963 at American University when he extended an olive branch to Moscow after Russia placed nuclear missiles in Cuba.
Times – and expectations – have changed.
Lenny (5ea732) — 7/8/2017 @ 9:12 amAnd it should be dealt with at the peripheries in Cuba in south America, in central Asia, but we are playing pantomime horse
narciso (d1f714) — 7/8/2017 @ 9:15 amOK, Amanda sees boogeymen every every bed, but how likely is it that campaign to bear fruit? More likely than what happened under Obama with the harvesting of fetal parts by PP? The most that will happen is defunding PP and new laws prohibiting harvesting.
My guess is defunding PP bothers you but what about harvesting?
DRJ (15874d) — 7/8/2017 @ 9:15 amAlso, calling them SexPolice trivializes the topic, which I assume is your goal. It’s not helpful if you really want to talk.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/8/2017 @ 9:17 amIn that case, I suggest talking with happyfeet. You two have that in common.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/8/2017 @ 9:18 amWow! You sure ripped through that. I assume you oppose stem cell research?
Ben burn (5dd238) — 7/8/2017 @ 9:21 amAn interesting discussion from another blog,aegis destroyers like the ftiz are part ofcthe point defense against ballistic missiles, the crystal may have been merely an accident, but it suggests something of a strategy.
narciso (d1f714) — 7/8/2017 @ 9:22 amThat’s correct, plus I don’t think we need it. We’ve had success with adult stem cells.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/8/2017 @ 9:23 amBy the way, Ben burn, it’s off-topic but I don’t think most pro-life folks hate contraception. I do think some have problems with Plan B. It’s called contraception but it can prevent implantation of a fertilized egg, something its supporters don’t like to talk about.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/8/2017 @ 9:08 am
Well, my view is if the egg is not implanted then it is not life.
It has no way to become a human being under that scenario. Just a bunch of cells dividing itself but not growing and incapable to defending itself in the state that it is.
Blah (44eaa0) — 7/8/2017 @ 9:25 amSpecifically, I oppose fetal stem cell research — something that might help my family because we have a rare genetic disease. I have a horse in this race and still oppose it.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/8/2017 @ 9:25 amThen this discussion will be unproductive.
Ben burn (5dd238) — 7/8/2017 @ 9:25 amBlah,
And you are entitled to that opinion, of course. I understand your point. Do you understand why some people might dusagree?
DRJ (15874d) — 7/8/2017 @ 9:26 amAmanda Marcotte? Gag me with a spoon.
My Fair Blogger, by Iowahawk. A parody that describes Marcotte better than a thousand pictures, from the time John Edwards hired her and fired her from his campaign. Mildly NSFW, but I guarantee you’ll find it amusing or double your money back.
nk (dbc370) — 7/8/2017 @ 9:26 amChina, NK and Iran are much worse and dangerous than Putin ….
You know if idiot Clinton had left things along in the Balkans maybe the crazies would not be so embolden … by same token we could say the same as Reagan in Afghanistan.
No good deed, goes unpunished.
Blah (44eaa0) — 7/8/2017 @ 9:27 amBen burn
Sorry to hear that because it can be good to discuss things even if no one changes their mind. Hearing both sides and trying to understand can be beneficial, whether we ultimately disagree. But I accept that you don’t feel that way or maybe that you’ve heard it all before and don’t want to be bothered, so have a nice day.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/8/2017 @ 9:28 am#362, Sure I do but I don’t find any logic in declaring it life until it has a means of growth. And that growth engine is the women (borne women who now call himself a dude).
Gotta draw a line somewhere. To me that line makes sense in defending life. You can mix sperm and eggs anywhere you want but it does not create life.
Blah (44eaa0) — 7/8/2017 @ 9:28 amNow if you want to discuss the Christian version of SHARIA and the morality brigades fomenting laws to ‘persuade the unwashed masses to accept that narrow viewview
Ben burn (5dd238) — 7/8/2017 @ 9:30 amGlad to discuss.
Ben burn (5dd238) — 7/8/2017 @ 9:30 amAn excerpt for people who don’t click links:
nk (dbc370) — 7/8/2017 @ 9:31 am#366 may I add the pre-conditions to be call life have always been
1) Can they live/grow in the form they are in at that point in time. A zygote can not.
2) Can that form they are in result in the ability to reproduce at some later time.
So, my views are based on a rational approach to defining life even if other may disagree.
A zygote is potential just like sperm and egg are. Potential.
You break the seal when the egg is implanted because that thing, unabated is the very definition of life.
Blah (44eaa0) — 7/8/2017 @ 9:32 amAs with his previous trip to Israel and Europe, the Poland visit/G-20 Summit was also a great triumph for Trump. Just for a moment contrast Trump’s leadership with the embarrassment Obama made of himself – and still makes of himself – while abroad. Trump leaves the other European leaders looking small (both literally and figuratively) and ineffectual. The riots in Hamburg makes one wonder if Merkel sees the protesters as a useful tool or if law enforcement is simply ineffectual. Neither surmise is particularly flattering to the leader of the greatest power in Europe. The comparison favors Trump in the extreme.
My favorite moment of the trip is the photo of Putin looking up at Melania and drooling; a close second was sitting Melania next to Putin at the state dinner. Masterful! Whose idea was that? Putin came across as a horny middle schooler.
Looking back at Trump’s “honor to meet with Putin” comment, it seems more like a set up than anything else. Well played President Trump!
ThOR (c9324e) — 7/8/2017 @ 9:32 amhttp://www.thedailybeast.com/the-conservative-crusade-for-christian-sharia-law
Nuff said
Ben burn (5dd238) — 7/8/2017 @ 9:34 amAnd they can’t stop talking bout Bama.
Ben burn (5dd238) — 7/8/2017 @ 9:35 amOne the fact that bezos chief Latin American correspondent is the son in law of a former regime spy chief would be something of note to bezos readers, but its left out of the frame
narciso (d1f714) — 7/8/2017 @ 9:38 amTrump truly is a Freudian snake-pit.
The sitting position, upper body leaning forward arms resting on upper thighs, getting the Vulva hand-jive message sent to all available fans.
Ben burn (5dd238) — 7/8/2017 @ 9:40 amFor eight years I chided Bama for his timidity and and reluctance. Clearly he identified with Jackie Robinson’s philosophy of from and bear it, when he should have channeled Cassius Clays drink some Gin and TEAR IT.
Ben burn (5dd238) — 7/8/2017 @ 9:45 amBlah,
Good for you, but surely you don’t think your views are the only rational ones out there, do you? Unless we outlaw abortion — which I am not suggesting — then the issue will always be “Where do we draw the line?”
Different people will have different answers to that, and many of those answers will be rational. For instance, it is rational to say that a fertilized egg has more potential for life than an unfertilized egg, and it is potential we are talking about when we discuss the unborn.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/8/2017 @ 9:46 amRobinson’s grin and bear it..
Ben burn (5dd238) — 7/8/2017 @ 9:46 amYou really should chat with happyfeet, Ben burn.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/8/2017 @ 9:46 amExcept not about Trump.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/8/2017 @ 9:46 amGood to know Thor says it’s OK to talk about smallness in a leader. For instance, Mike K objected when I said Trump is a small man so I’ll refer him to you next time.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/8/2017 @ 9:51 amActually Trump is tall while hamster hands are small. But there is PR hooker who says even smaller.
Ben burn (5dd238) — 7/8/2017 @ 9:55 amOne is reminded of one of my favorite small films, part of what stillmans trilogy that began with metropolitan and ended in with last days of disco. What happenscwhen fake news infuses early 80s Barcelona, when it had shaken off the resraibts of a figure like Franco.
narciso (d1f714) — 7/8/2017 @ 9:55 am“Intellectualizing Trump is to misunderstand his appeal. Don’t think.
Just emote.”
– Ben burn
This is a wonderful comment, though incomplete. Trump operates on an intuition that is undoubtedly both his in-born way of seeing the world and has developed over years of wheeling and dealing. Most of his critics are intellectualizers who have little grasp of intuition and intuitive thinkers. This is why Trump’s critics view him as unmanly – intuition is an essentially female realm. Ego prevents these critics from acknowledging just how effective an intuitive thinker can be in a the world of emotion-driven human interaction which is politics. This is precisely the reason Trump’s critics routinely embarrass themselves and wind up losing to Trump. I don’t think Ben burn is far off the mark, but to attempt to disparage Trump in this way comes across as little more than sour grapes from an individual, like so many others, who can’t see the forest for the trees.
I see the entire #NeverTrump phenomenon as one in which intellectualizers are struggling with their essentially emotional response to Trump and they are hamstrung by it.
ThOR (c9324e) — 7/8/2017 @ 10:03 amBen @ 371.
Dean Obeidallah?? That’s your source???
LMAO.
You are a joke — eh, joker.
shipwreckedcrew (d40275) — 7/8/2017 @ 10:03 amWhat I obect to about Plan B isn’t that it exists but that is marketed as an emergency contraceptive and you have to read the fine print to see that it can prevent implantation. Some people won’t care; some will, but let’s be transparent about it.
Of course, FIGO claims that this is much ado about nothing because two studies say Plan B doesn’t prevent implantation. I don’t know whether or not this is true, but scientists can have an agenda just like politicians.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/8/2017 @ 10:07 amAt a dollar, they are still o ervalyed, occasionally they hire good reporters. They don’t stay like lake and rogin but they don’t stay long.
narciso (d1f714) — 7/8/2017 @ 10:08 amThey are hamstrung because they can’t comprehend the thousand-yard stare when Trumpettes are bonded to when confronted with his antics. Intuition? Maybe, like OR Barnum public reading for entertainment, but this isn’t a Nielson rating system for Reeves. It’s govern
Ben burn (5dd238) — 7/8/2017 @ 10:11 amGovernance. What a mess. Smartphone options?
Ben burn (5dd238) — 7/8/2017 @ 10:12 amThat’s good advice, ThOR. Trump is not what anyone would call a thinking man. He’s a very instinctual person.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/8/2017 @ 10:14 amShipwrecked
Attack the message rather than the messenger. It might help your ‘argument’
Ben burn (5dd238) — 7/8/2017 @ 10:15 amBen,
I have the same problem you reported when posting comments using my cell phone – I can’t get to the submit button.
I have an LG4
ThOR (c9324e) — 7/8/2017 @ 10:16 amIntuition is not well studied. Should have it in IQ tests but men write them and are uncomfortable with it’s measurement. Women excel..men dont.
Ben burn (5dd238) — 7/8/2017 @ 10:17 amSometimes it’s forward of the text, but sometimes behind.
Ben burn (5dd238) — 7/8/2017 @ 10:18 amThis is EXACTLY how I see the situation with regard to Trump, Putin, Russia, and election interference — from Paul Minengoff at Powerline:
The US engages in pretty much the same kind of foreign intelligence tradecraft as the Russians, anyone who thinks that is not true doesn’t have a clue about the US intelligence apparatus dispersed around the world.
I laughed at the “report” this week that the US intelligence community is alarmed by the efforts by Russia to get new intelligence operatives into the US disguised as Russian businessmen.
Really?? Like we don’t do that? Wasn’t that what the exposure of Valerie Plame was all about — having revealed that she was a NOC for the CIA while posing as a business executive abroad?
I KNOW FOR A FACT that folks in the US Counterintelligence community (whom I speak with daily) were UNHAPPY when Obama kicked out the 35 Russian intelligence operatives as one of his “sanctions” for the election interference.
As it was put to me “Fuck, we knew who they were, and they didn’t all know that we knew who they were. Knowing someone is a spy makes it much easier to keep track of what they are up to, and respond accordingly with things like planted disinformation to fuck up what they are doing. You kick them out, and the first thing the Russian intelligence service does is analyze how it is we identified their operatives, and then move to correct whatever exposed them. IT MAKES OUR JOBS HARDER.”
But hey, lets sanction them for interfering in an election where their efforts made no difference in the outcome.
Maybe Israel should have done that to Obama for overtly backing his opponent in the most recent Israeli elections.
shipwreckedcrew (d40275) — 7/8/2017 @ 10:20 amHeh. Maguire posts just about anything but Trump. At least he’s not obsessed. Lol.
Ben burn (5dd238) — 7/8/2017 @ 10:23 amOf course there is a disconnect between Trump supporters and #NeverTrumpers. Intuitive thinkers will be more sympathetic to Trump and reject what they see as misconceived intellectualizations. I think this is precisely the reason Trump did better with White women in the general election than most were expecting. They could relate to his intuitive world view.
I think this is part of the reason Scott Adams seems to have Trump’s number. As a cartoonist, he understands the intuitive/emotional side of humans. It’s how he gets people to laugh.
ThOR (c9324e) — 7/8/2017 @ 10:27 am@393
Yes, that’s my problem. I usually can eventually find the submit button, but I have to search around for it.
ThOR (c9324e) — 7/8/2017 @ 10:28 amHey Ben — the messenger in your case put together the message, and its built on so many strawmen and outright fabrications that its not worth the effort. Anyone who reads the piece can see its transparent anti-Christian bigotry from a Muslim-American comic who has make it his schtick since he quit practicing law in favor of doing stand-up comedy.
Using his logic, the Declaration of Independence and Constitution are Christian Sharia Law because both make reference to “God” which at the time of the writing from the perspective of the authors and signatories was the God worshiped by Christians.
shipwreckedcrew (d40275) — 7/8/2017 @ 10:29 amI figgered it was a knee jerk to offensive rhetoric. No need to splain or check out the Christian fascists for yourself. Start with Putin, the reformed lb Russian Orthodoxy.
Ben burn (5dd238) — 7/8/2017 @ 10:37 amThere is a longstanding conflict in our culture between those who fancy themselves “thinking men” and those who reject those thinking men. I think it is primarily a class-related conflict, though not entirely. A belief in the primacy of “thinking men” also suggests a resistance to the concept that all men are created equal.
This is precisely what Ronald Reagan was getting at when he famously said he didn’t like to read. Ditto when William F. Buckly Jr. stated: “I am obliged to confess I should sooner live in a society governed by the first two thousand names in the Boston telephone directory than in a society governed by the two thousand faculty members of Harvard University.”
ThOR (c9324e) — 7/8/2017 @ 10:38 amThor: where does it go?
Ben burn (5dd238) — 7/8/2017 @ 10:38 amI tend to over think, and action is often preferable. Trump kinda does action, but without considering wrongness. I call it Reckless Disregard.
Ben burn (5dd238) — 7/8/2017 @ 10:42 amSWC, I don’t think *God* or *Providence* or any other Christian identification of deity appears in the Constitution. As usual, I could be wrong.
Rev.Hoagie® (630eca) — 7/8/2017 @ 10:45 amI just caught pattericos joke.
‘Beta’ to Pootins Alpha.
Butch! Lol.
Ben burn (5dd238) — 7/8/2017 @ 10:45 amPlease provide a link showing Reagan didn’t like to read. He was a well-known reader, generally fiction.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/8/2017 @ 10:46 amButch should be BITCH! unless butch is better, lol.
Ben burn (5dd238) — 7/8/2017 @ 10:46 amBen:
I use my finger to move the image around the screen, while at the same time rotating my phone from portrait to landscape mode and back again. There is no logic to what I do – which probably explains some of my comments, too – but eventually I see a corner of the submit button and I push it.
It is odd how sometimes the button seems to be above the comment, other times below, and, occasionally, to the right of the comment.
All I can do is encourage you to keep playing with it until you find the button. It is there – somewhere. Good luck.
ThOR (c9324e) — 7/8/2017 @ 10:47 amBut he also read non-fiction. Among his favorite books were Witness and the Bible.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/8/2017 @ 10:48 amThanx Thor. I have tried to move, but sometimes it seems frozen. Keep trying..
Ben burn (5dd238) — 7/8/2017 @ 10:50 amWhen I say Trump kinda does action I mean he doesn’t personally DO anything. Like Picard he just waves his flabby arm “Make it so!”
Ben burn (5dd238) — 7/8/2017 @ 10:52 amJust in case you don’t click the link …
“Not being an intellectual” doesn’t mean he was anti-intellectual. The media portrayed Reagan as a dolt, like Trump, but he wasn’t. He just didn’t care that they portrayed him that way.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/8/2017 @ 10:54 amReagan was a different era where Tip Oneil could joke with another Irishman.
But I still wanted to shove a cream pie in his face. I always wanted to try Soupy Sales diplomacy. These days a pie is a WM
Ben burn (5dd238) — 7/8/2017 @ 11:08 amEmulating Trump or the crowd that follows Trump. They all follow the same ethic these days. Twist your words and insult you. Anything but engage in respectful conversation that acknowledges the other person’s point of view.
swc didn’t look very hard if he thinks people have nothing negative to say about the Trump-Putin meeting. My favorite is Stephen Hayes: Trump Caves to Putin.
Patterico (115b1f) — 7/8/2017 @ 11:09 amI’m not saying Reagan didn’t like to read. I’m aware that he was a reader. Reagan was the best thing that ever happened to Tom Clancy.
I’m saying Reagan once made a comment to that effect he didn’t like to read as a political statement.
I can’t find that comment right now searching the internet, so I may be wrong.
But I’m not wrong about the WFB comment or what he was telling us.
ThOR (c9324e) — 7/8/2017 @ 11:09 amWMD…
Ben burn (5dd238) — 7/8/2017 @ 11:09 amPutin is absolutely USSR 2.0. Anyone who doesn’t understand this isn’t paying attention. I recommend Garry Kasparov’s book Winter is Coming as remedial education for such folks, who (I confidently predict) have not read it. Tell me I’m wrong.
Patterico (115b1f) — 7/8/2017 @ 11:16 amstephen hayes doesn’t cite any tangible proof Russia did interference on the election
the whole “Russian interference” thing was something the corrupt failmerican fbi cia nsa sleazy-poofs made up to cover for their *own* fascist and slutty interference on behalf of a diseased ivy league trash stinkypig
the corrupt comey fbi monkeydunks never even examined the hacked server lol
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/8/2017 @ 11:17 amTried to, not did.
Bury your head in the sand. You’re the guy who thinks Trump is truthful so your opinion is not exactly credible in sensible company.
Sorry but that’s how it works
Patterico (115b1f) — 7/8/2017 @ 11:31 amCite one lie told by Trump, happyfeet.
You won’t because you think he always tells the truth.
lol lol lol you’re a clown not to be taken seriously lol lol lol
(I’ll give respect to people who earn it. Not to those who don’t.)
Sorry but that’s how it works
Patterico (115b1f) — 7/8/2017 @ 11:32 amrussian interference ference ference
daddy gave you clearance earance earance
now you rollin comey style hackin like a crocodile
making them republicans win by a country mile
stinkypig too dangerous tough like titanium
why she go give vladimir all our uranium
tricky sly that stinkypig
Russia really dodged a bullet
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/8/2017 @ 11:36 amThat’s the clown we all know and some of us love.
Stick to nonsense. It doesn’t become you to take off the clown nose.
Patterico (115b1f) — 7/8/2017 @ 11:39 amif i’m a clown let it be said i’m a clown for freedom
and raise a glass when you think of me
and i will do the same
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/8/2017 @ 11:43 amRoyal vs. Navy, but be careful cause Bernie gets what could charitably called marksmen:
urbanleftbehind (5aa899) — 7/8/2017 @ 11:46 amhttp://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-won-because-bernie-sanders-124001330.html
On President Trump’s European vacation, he stood shoulder to shoulder with Polish President Andrzej Duda, while announcing the transfer of Patriot Missiles to this often threatened Russian neighbor state.
Then he moved on to Hamburg and announce to the world that he intends to flood the European fuel market with American products, thereby undermining Russia’s primary source of foreign exchange.
But we are supposed to fret about Stephen Hayes’ speculation about what may or may not have been said between the two leaders – a critique that Paul Mirenghoff over at Powerline describes as “unfair” – and that Trump is too cozy with Putin.
Here, yet again, if one is to look at matters of substance, Trump critics fail to persuade. This doesn’t even count as “intellectualizing.”
ThOR (c9324e) — 7/8/2017 @ 12:02 pmBen and Thor
kishnevi (10c258) — 7/8/2017 @ 12:04 pmI have the same problems with the submit button and with freezing on my tablet. Maybe an Android or Chrome kink. Usually rotating the tablet or tapping the screen outside the text box works.
The Soviet Union/Russians have been interfering with American institutions and governance virtually since the revolution and – I hope – we have been interfering right back. In this, the centennial year of the Russian Revolution, I find it difficult to take seriously all this indigence and pearl clutching.
ThOR (c9324e) — 7/8/2017 @ 12:10 pmIt might be Chrome but I have an Android system and it doesn’t happen to me.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/8/2017 @ 12:11 pmIf it doesn’t matter what Trump says privately to the Russians, then why did anyone care when Obama was overheard privately asking Medvedev to tell Putin that he (Obama) would have more flexibility after the 2012 election?
DRJ (15874d) — 7/8/2017 @ 12:14 pmThOR (c9324e) — 7/8/2017 @ 12:10 pm
True and apt.
kishnevi (10c258) — 7/8/2017 @ 12:14 pmBut just as unrealistic is the attitude some seem to have that it is all an MSM hoax.
What’s Kennedy’s game? Trumped by the not so subtle suggestion he retire NOW closely aligned with narrative that Gorsuch is a Trojan Scalia cozying up to Thomas seems to have steered his decision to wait. I hope that’s the case. We’ll see next July.
Ben burn (5dd238) — 7/8/2017 @ 12:15 pm“indignance, not “indigence”
Blessed are the spell checkers, which make me look even less intelligent.
ThOR (c9324e) — 7/8/2017 @ 12:17 pmMaybe indignation?
DRJ (15874d) — 7/8/2017 @ 12:20 pmKennedy has been a bulwark against religious influence @ SCOTUS and carbuncle on fascisms ads. I hope he can hang on for two years until these decks are cleared of wharf rats.
Ben burn (5dd238) — 7/8/2017 @ 12:24 pmwe can’t say for sure what people discussed privately but we can make some good guesses
remember they were doing their talks while uglybutt merkel was hanging with a bunch of climate dorks
so they were probably laughing a lot about how stupid she is
if you haven’t seen this it’s a fun read about how the climate change hoax is being exposed in a canadian court of all unlikely places
freedom’s on the march let no one stand athwart it
not uglybutt merkel
not this shady stephen hayes character
not meghan’s loathsomely cowardly daddy
it’s our time down here but that’s all over the second we ride up Troy’s bucket
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/8/2017 @ 12:24 pmkishnevi,
The MSM has so undermined its own credibility, they have only themselves to blame for the hoax presumption. If they’d simply play things straight, they could advance the cause of informed consent and liberty. Instead, they have chosen to set aside professionalism and become advocates. It is deeply troubling.
ThOR (c9324e) — 7/8/2017 @ 12:26 pmI would enjoy talking with captcha code writers…mebbe not.
Ben burn (5dd238) — 7/8/2017 @ 12:26 pmHappy Feet must not live at sea level. Imagine his howls when refugees camp in his driveway.
Ben burn (5dd238) — 7/8/2017 @ 12:28 pmYes, indignation would have been better than indignance and a whole lot better than indigence.
ThOR (c9324e) — 7/8/2017 @ 12:28 pmTWO years..my prediction. Watergate took two.
Ben burn (5dd238) — 7/8/2017 @ 12:29 pmIt won’t be Russia that grinds him.
Emoluements…Teapot Dome was nothing.
Ben burn (5dd238) — 7/8/2017 @ 12:32 pmIndigence is a topic I care about. I drove through LA recently and there were homeless encampments on the overpasses. There is one here in the Bay Area right in front of Stanford Stadium.
ThOR (c9324e) — 7/8/2017 @ 12:32 pmIt’s a bit more than speculation. It’s based on Tillerson’s account of the meeting.
Patterico (115b1f) — 7/8/2017 @ 12:34 pmImpeachment is the Ghost Dance of 21st century liberals.
ThOR (c9324e) — 7/8/2017 @ 12:34 pmHappy Feet must not live at sea level.
577 feet up, baby. And that’s just the surface of our lake. And any refugees are going to have to come through the South Side. Good luck with that!
nk (dbc370) — 7/8/2017 @ 12:36 pmPart of Mirengoff’s “defense” is that, OK, Tillerson made an assertion (that Russia’s and the USA’s objectives in Syria are “exactly the same”) that is (to quote Mirengoff) “absurd” — but hey, don’t worry, because “there’s little reason to think that Trump, or even Tillerson, believes it.”
I’ll say that again. The argument is: don’t worry about the “absurd” thing our Secretary of State just said. Probably neither he nor the President actually believes it.
That is his actual argument, which I am not misrepresenting or exaggerating, even slightly.
Awesome.
I feel reassured now!
Patterico (115b1f) — 7/8/2017 @ 12:41 pmi live next to a vast inland sea connected to the St. Lawrence Seaway by a clever series of locks and canals
but say i lived on the west coast perhaps in a coastal village like los angeles
in this village there are many passionate adherents to the climate change hoax
one of them is a shady con artist named Elon Musk
he says ohnoes the seas are rising this is no good this is no good
and the propaganda sluts in the village echo his cries
Rising sea levels could mean twice as much flood risk in Los Angeles and other coastal cities
then elon the shady con man says hey Los Angeles you know what you should spend billions of borrowed monies on???
TUNNELS!!!
you can’t make this crap up
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/8/2017 @ 12:42 pmThOR 424 – Bingo.
Trump: Hey Vlad….can I call you Vlad? It’s Vladdy? Vladdy, it’s an honor to meet you, really, really a great, wonderful honor. You’ve got a nice biz there, a yuuuuuge biz in oil and gas…..be a shame if anything happened to it.
The missiles and NATO assurance alone have set the tone…..but the energy play will bring Putin to his knees. So simple, even a cretin can pull it off.
Lenny (5ea732) — 7/8/2017 @ 12:44 pm@344. I am looking ahead to twenty years from now and maybe as little as ten, as Putin makes Russia stronger and the West weaker.
Bingo, bingo, bingo, nk! You win the Oneida cutlery set.
You’re never going to convince some here to look at the arc of Putin’s tenure thus far in the broader context of Russian history. He’s essentially flotsam from a sunken ship of state, post-Gorby/Yeltsin and has made steady, deadly and relentlessly remarkable progress given the cards dealt him after the CCCP sank — at the expense of missteps and underestimations by western leaders fueled by greed [and corruption] from business interests worldwide.
And he has taken full advantage of every error to consolidate power and grow.
Restoring respect and clout for a now regional power to be treated as the once global superpower it was is just masterfully ballsy. It’s the art of the deal; little wonder a former New York City real estate developer admires his chutzpah.
Putin’s a pooch that only learns by having a newspaper smacked across the snout. Which is why he barks ‘fake news’ at every swipe w/t help of the frigging President of the United States no less– [‘course, Putin is the TO’s banker.] From recent meddling in western elections to stealing Crimea; battling for Ukraine; holding leverage in Syria by chaos; grousing over ‘unfair’ sanctions and even denying the two-stage, liquid fueled rocket lofted by NK was an ICBM, Putin’s peddling of ‘alternate facts'[sound familiar?] in self-interest knows no bounds. And minions- some unwittingly, some deliberately- in the West are doing his bidding by buying into any of it by seeding doubt.
“I looked and looked and looked but I didn’t see God up there.” – Yuri Gagarin, first man in space, USSR, 4/14/61
_______
Today’s Beldar The Bitter ‘Watergate, Watergate, Watergate’ Words Of Wonder:
“That’s why the cover-up, the cover-up thing will be– I wonder, I wonder… I had a strange dream last night. I can’t believe they can tie the thing to me. What’s your feeling?” – President Nixon discussing Watergate cover-up plans and options with John Ehrlichman, secret White House Oval Office tapes July 19, 1972
DCSCA (797bc0) — 7/8/2017 @ 12:51 pmAs I see OT, the goal is not to have any one power dominate not the Saudis not the Iranians or the russians
narciso (d1f714) — 7/8/2017 @ 12:52 pmPatterico @445
But that’s exactly the reason one needs to look to actions/ accomplishments. Talk is cheap. It is cheap for Trump. It is cheap for all pols. I’m still trying to come to grips with the astonishing dishonesty of the Republican Caucus when it come to Repeal. I see that as a more dishonest betrayal than anything that has come our way from President Trump. It turns my stomach.
The Missouri state motto perfectly captures my current political orientation: SHOW ME.
ThOR (c9324e) — 7/8/2017 @ 12:56 pmI hope you made the water polo team sappy geet. St Lawrence seaway indeed.
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 7/8/2017 @ 1:01 pmThere’s also that Reagan stand by, truSt but verify
http://www.davidwarrenonline.com/2017/07/08/culture-of-fear
narciso (d1f714) — 7/8/2017 @ 1:01 pmMcCain Warns Against Repealing Obamacare Without Replacement
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/8/2017 @ 1:01 pmmom says i’m not a strong swimmer
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/8/2017 @ 1:02 pm“And he has taken full advantage of every error to consolidate power and grow.”
It’s just payback for our Soviet Humps Gorby and Yeltsin the potatohead. I agree a third rate world power is tumescent until you corral the msnpower
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 7/8/2017 @ 1:05 pmmanpower of sociopaths in the former Soviet. A laptop is s minor investment when compared to military upticks.
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 7/8/2017 @ 1:06 pmI hear that a lot these days. Ignore what Trump says. Look at what he does.
The people who say that spend an awful lot of time criticizing what I say. They spend very little time looking at what I actually do (for example, still fighting a lawsuit by Brett Kimberlin). When it comes to me, all of a sudden what is said is very, very important — if it criticized Trump, that is.
But what Trump says? If it makes him look like an idiot, ignore it.
Is this consistent? Well, sure! The consistency is: make an argument that supports Trump, always.
It’s not consistent on any other level. But it’s consistent on that one.
If you’re going to excuse every stupid statement that Trump says on the grounds that what a person says doesn’t matter, kindly never criticize any of my statements again.
Patterico (115b1f) — 7/8/2017 @ 1:11 pmyou can count me out of this group that’s for sure
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/8/2017 @ 1:17 pm“Look at what he does.”
I get glazed looks when I suggest behaviors are key to truthful words.
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 7/8/2017 @ 1:21 pmThat was one of my biggest boils on Obama.
NK: As you know my visits to JOM were minimal during the campaign. Will you give notes on the zeitgeist?
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 7/8/2017 @ 1:23 pmChris Cillizza at CNN tweeted:
“OHMYGODOHMYGODOHMYGOD”
in reference to the handshake snub nothing burger.
This was the most succinct of the TDS utterances by bloggers and “journalists” over things which didnt happen regarding his trip this week.
harkin (7833f6) — 7/8/2017 @ 1:24 pmSo lopez’s release, is akin to what happened with Walesa and gavel and perhaps urban, I have to check on that. What happened in Russia, is very few real dissidents ended up on power, only Yeltsin a reformed muzik.
narciso (d1f714) — 7/8/2017 @ 1:25 pmChristie will host the 2 p.m. to 6:30 p.m. show along with Evan Roberts, a WFAN host. He isn’t the only one slotted to audition next week. Mike Valenti from WXYT-FM 97.1 in Detroit, former National Football League quarterback Chris Simms, SNY’s Brian Custer and NFL Network and WFAN contributor Kim Jones will also audition next week, the station said. Roberts and his midmorning co-host, Joe Benigno, are also scheduled to audition in the afternoon slot, the station said.
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 7/8/2017 @ 1:28 pmMark Chernoff, the station’s program director and vice president of its parent company, CBS Radio New York, previously told The Record he would consider the governor, whose term ends in January 2018.” Beached Narwal seeks position
i heard President Trump saw to it that the uppity antifa trigglypuff first poland lady only got one scoop of ice creams at dinner that night
i wish there was a picture of her stupid face when she was served lol
she was probably like hey no fair
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/8/2017 @ 1:28 pmSoS Tillerson’s credibility on all things Russia is ‘slim.’
Göring awarded Lindbergh the Commander Cross of the Order of the German Eagle.
Putin awarded Tillerson the Russian Order of Friendship.
Political wings compromised and clipped.
“Well, I guess I might as well go.” – Chas. Lindbergh, departing Roosevelt Field, NY, for Paris, 5/20/27
DCSCA (797bc0) — 7/8/2017 @ 1:30 pmIronic you mention Lech Walesa narco, but the irony escapes your ilk. Too many nostalgic nazis known as Polacks.
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 7/8/2017 @ 1:31 pmTillerson has been an asset however mitigated by the POTUS git.
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 7/8/2017 @ 1:32 pmI’m usually a fan of Hayes, but his reaction to Tillerson’s comments is hysterical, and not in the “ha-ha-that’s-funny” sense.
Hayes makes the mistake of taking bland statements made after a meeting at absolute face value. He surely should know better than that, and I suspect, actually, that he does. Key hysteria:
Hayes has fallen for the part of the Leftie narrative on this — a narrative that is indeed crafted and intended to be anti-Trump (as it would be anti-Bush if Dubya were still in office, or anti-Rubio if it were Rubio instead of Trump) because they’re Lefties.
The Russians have been trying to affect — specifically, to selectively promote or disrupt — foreign governments as long as there has been a “Russia,” certainly going back to the Czars. There’s no reason to be more “deeply troubled” by what they did in 2016 than by what they did in 2012 or 2008 or 2004 or 2000 or … all the way back to at least 1781, when fourteen-year-old John Quincy Adams went to the courts of the Czars as translator and aide to Ambassador Francis Dana. You think the Czars agents were unaware of who his father was, or the role he’d played in the Revolution, or the role he was likely to play in the nascent nation’s future? You think the Czar declined to play the Great Game with this young POTUS-to-be?
Russia is a real enemy. They’d do more if they could; they do all they can; this go-around they lucked into the proverbial birds-nest on the ground when they got into the DNC’s servers and Podesta’s emails. Yeah, there’s probably some tiny group of marginal voters for whom the revelations from those leaks was the “last straw” that kept them home instead of voting for Hillary, but was that a greater or lesser number of voters than those deterred by rainy skies or the latest Seinfeld re-runs? We’ll never know, but I doubt it.
Presumably Hayes would have the SecState make a ringing denunciation of the threat from the Russian Bear in the presser after Trump’s first meeting. That would surely make Tillerson a very different sort of SecState than any going back to Jefferson.
When I described myself as comforted by Tillerson’s comments, that described a subjective reaction on my part, a mitigation in part (only in part) of my severe concern that Trump, on his own, is utterly outmatched by Putin or any other rival world leader who’s capable of coherent thought and planning on anything besides his own personal popularity as reflected in tomorrow’s cable TV news shows. My comfort is based on my hope, my presumption (which I think is a reasonable one), that the private counsel Tillerson gave Trump before the meeting, the assistance he rendered during it, and the private counsel Tillerson gave Trump after the meeting, is very different from the deliberately bland diplo-speak Tillerson delivered in public after the meeting.
This distinction appears to have utterly eluded Hayes, even as a possibility, and he’s usually much sharper than that.
Hayes is probably right that Trump doesn’t much care about Russian attempts to interfere in U.S. elections, no more than Trump much cares about SCOTUS picks or the Second Amendment or any of a thousand other policy issues. Trump cares about Trump, and about those issues only if and to the extent that any of them impinge upon his ego and brand. But that was equally true before and after the Putin meeting.
Hayes doesn’t know, I don’t know, and no one reading this blog knows what was actually said in the meeting, or how it was perceived by Putin. As I wrote in my original comment (#254) about the meeting, I am indeed very worried by how badly Trump is likely to be outclassed and outfoxed by an adversary like Putin in a one-on-one meeting like this. I will not be surprised if it turns out that the meeting was as disastrous as Kennedy’s 1961 summit with Khrushchev, which brought the world to the brink of thermonuclear war a year later in Cuba. But I don’t yet have a basis to confirm that my fears are justified, nor a basis to confirm that they weren’t — except that Tillerson’s performance after the meeting was the kind of general diplo-speak that I would likewise have expected from SecStates for Bush-43 or -41, or from Reagan, or from Eisenhower. Tillerson does indeed have a long track record of successful dealings with Putin and Russia, and at least from public appearances he is not panicked. So I choose to find that reassuring, despite all the known unknowns (and, of course, the unknown unknowns).
Beldar (fa637a) — 7/8/2017 @ 1:32 pmWhat happened to your light, gregarious dodge sappy geet?
Tired of iron fisting with velvet gloves?
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 7/8/2017 @ 1:34 pmi don’t even understand are you doing a criticize on me?
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/8/2017 @ 1:35 pmReasonable assessment. Is Tillerson going to endure his ankle biters?
“My comfort is based on my hope, my presumption (which I think is a reasonable one), that the private counsel Tillerson gave Trump before the meeting, the assistance he rendered
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 7/8/2017 @ 1:37 pmNot critical..effusive in praise for your jolly nature seemed worthy of compliment.
Keep being Happy.
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 7/8/2017 @ 1:39 pmYes the okrana ha an overseas branch, the rabkin agentura , I heard about them from Tim powers declare, and there were likely precursors with the third section and the strelsy in the time of peter the great.
narciso (d1f714) — 7/8/2017 @ 1:43 pmoh thank you that brightens my day
which has not been one of high accomplishment so far
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/8/2017 @ 1:43 pmIf I were to rank threats to America right now on a 1 to 10 scale — with 10 being “we must launch the nukes right now!” — Russian threats to the integrity of our elections and political processes is somewhere well below five. The Norks and the Iranians and their respective nukes are up above eight.
The Dems want to paint the gravity of the threat from the Russians as being a nine. Hayes seems to have bought into that. And that’s what I’m describing as “hysteria.”
Beldar (fa637a) — 7/8/2017 @ 1:43 pmYou are welcome sappy geet.
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 7/8/2017 @ 1:45 pmI agree with a lot of this. I’m not a fan of our meddling in Syria, and while I think the Russians should be slapped down for what they tried, it’s not a huge deal to me.
Here’s what is a big deal to me: Trump gladhanding like a fool with a murderer and terrorist, and constantly minimizing and even defending Putin’s thuggery. I much prefer Reagan’s guarded approach to ruthless dictators to Trump’s role as simpleton and dupe.
Patterico (115b1f) — 7/8/2017 @ 1:49 pmPut simply, Graves proposes treating families who rely on food stamps like convicted felons on probation.
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 7/8/2017 @ 1:49 pmPresumably Hayes wanted Tillerson to sound like this after the Putin-Trump meeting:
I don’t think we’re quite at that point yet with the Russians on this hacking stuff. Until we are, I expect diplo-speak in public from the SecState, exactly the kind that Tillerson delivered in yesterday’s presser.
Beldar (fa637a) — 7/8/2017 @ 1:50 pm(Sorry, blew that link in #479.)
Beldar (fa637a) — 7/8/2017 @ 1:50 pmI agree the NorKs are greater threat from an immediate danger, but cybercrooks lead the long range.
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 7/8/2017 @ 1:53 pmSee, but you do, because you know of Trump’s character as a dupe and idiot, and Putin’s as a wily ex-KGB guy.
It’s like when people constantly tell me I have no basis to think this bad thing or that bad thing about Trump. Of course I do. I’ve been learning about his character and dunce-like demeanor for quite some time now — and that is always relevant to how I evaluate him. It’s not “bias” when I judge that he will act like a dupe based on his past behavior. It’s analysis based on observation.
Anyway I have a post coming on the Hayes piece in about 40 minutes. It’s already up at RedState; I am just giving them their usual hour-long head start. Maybe we should save the more in-depth discussion of his piece for that thread.
Patterico (115b1f) — 7/8/2017 @ 1:53 pmJeez, still crapping about Japanese denial, no worse than Iraq debacle denial. Let them enjoy their delusion as we extricate our own.
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 7/8/2017 @ 1:58 pmI stick around here because I care about you. There are many things I like and respect about you, personally and professionally, and there are many issues we have agreed on over the years. I stick around because I think your approach to Trump is wrong and I’m hoping you come around – I am working to that end.
Please notice that I am not saying you are wrong about Trump. Sometimes I think you are wrong about Trump, while other times you are clearly right. My intention is not to change those views so much as it is to change how you frame those views. At the heart of my critique is the belief that we should judge our fellows not by their words or “intentions”, but by their actions and results. My comments are usually intended to argue for this critique.
Despite the many things I have praised about Trump, there are things about our President I detest. I so dislike his personae that I won’t watch videos of him or listen to audio recordings. What I know of his speeches and comments come for transcriptions. I completely understand your visceral reaction to Trump – I make an effort control my own, with vary degrees of success. Every time our President pushes one of my hot buttons, I say to myself “This is the man who gave us Neil Gorsuch.” It helps.
Nothing I will ever say or do will have any effect on Donald Trump. You are different. You are thoughtful and introspective. My arguments have a chance with you, so I’ll keep making them.
ThOR (c9324e) — 7/8/2017 @ 1:58 pmBeldar is channeling Roosevelt and Carter for his historic context.
Hmm. LINCOLN WAS A REPUBLICAN.
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 7/8/2017 @ 2:00 pmI guess we’re back to labels and identity politics.
Matthew Dowd, ABC Democratic Party sycophant who calls Trump supporters cultists, says current violence is coming equally from left and right:
“Matthew Dowd @matthewjdowd
Replying to @rvail136 and @sean_spicier
You can’t be serious? Look at all the violence from right win crazies. Timothy McVeigh for example.”
The reply?
“Sean Spicier @sean_spicier
Look at all the right wing violence, from 22 years ago “
harkin (7833f6) — 7/8/2017 @ 2:06 pmReagan feLt with Marcos until it wasn’t sustainable he dealt with south Africa for strategic reasons, the concerns that there might have had someone like,Zuma waiting in the wings, same with the Argentine junta, until the Falklands because there was a degree of realism typified by jeans Kirkpatrick, I guess general Flynn would be the comparable model.the ouster of the Shah and Somoza was bitter medicine that brought perspective.
narciso (3f54f3) — 7/8/2017 @ 2:06 pmBut ThOR, we’re not talking about whether we are going to convince Trump of anything. We’re talking about whether it’s legitimate to criticize his spoken statements. And I have to say, I sense a very distinct double standard being applied by many here on that front, who are perfectly willing to criticize my words while telling me that Trump’s words are meaningless. I don’t think this double standard is remotely defensible — and while I continue to appreciate your kind words, I don’t think you have confronted that issue head-on in your comment.
Then don’t judge me by my words. Don’t apply a double standard — one for me and one for Trump.
If it’s all about whether you have a chance to influence how someone expresses himself, then when Trump says something stupid and I criticize him for it you would say: “I agree that is stupid but our saying so is unlikely to have any effect.” Of course, our saying that an action of his (as opposed to wods) is wrong is also unlikely to have an effect — so we should just abandon all criticism of him.
It’s a double standard. When it’s Trump, you apply the principle of “look at actions not words.” When it’s me, you apply the principle of “I’ll try to change how he frames his views.” If the distinction between me and Trump is that I will listen to you and he won’t, then you’re saying there is no reason to criticize his words or actions because our criticism will have no effect in either case.
I like you, but you’re rationalizing a point of view that allows you to criticize my words while deeming his words off limits for criticism. It’s a blatant double standard.
Patterico (115b1f) — 7/8/2017 @ 2:07 pmThor: I too had misgivings about Trump during campaign, but still entertained HOPE. Now, six months in though I didn’t vote for him, I see he has nothing except intimidation and bluster. He can’t change those spits. I reserve my rancor for people who should know better. He’s a spiritual cripple without benefit and he quashed the working class HOPE.
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 7/8/2017 @ 2:07 pmharkin,
No, not “merely by being present.”
But if — I say if! — it was the product of Trump whining to Putin, then the action of Trump, and the idea that he would do it, could be accurately described with those adjectives. (The careful reader — which, here, is not you — will note that I used those adjectives to describe the concept that Trump would engage in such an action. I did not use those adjectives in my post to describe Trump.)
So “the question” is actually a different one from the one you asked. The question is this: we are presented with the case of a small, petty man who daily reveals his obsession with the fixation that he is being mistreated by the news media. Did he manage to get through a two-hour-plus meeting with his man-crush Vladimir without whining about said media obsession? And then did Putin bring it up out of nowhere in front of the media, based solely on news reports?
Given the sparse personnel present at the meeting, we will probably never know the answer for sure. I’d bet my house that Trump brought it up. Your mileage probably varies — and if so, we’ll have to leave our disagreement there, because there ain’t no resolving it.
Patterico (a048af) — 7/8/2017 @ 2:10 pmdouble standard oh my goodness
you’re doing a tendentious framing Mr. Patterico and i will tell you why
When it’s Trump, you apply the principle of “look at actions not words.” When it’s me, you apply the principle of “I’ll try to change how he frames his views.”
When President Trump says stuff you know what I hear?
I hear a heaven-sent miracle and a blessing!
There was no rational basis for to ever believe President Trump would be our president today.
But God smiled on us, and defeated the baleful stinkypig bent on finishing Barack Obama’s evil and hellish scheme designed to thrust our poor little country into a hopelessly abject state of immiseration and hopelessness.
Four years.
This is what we know we have. Four years of a well-intentioned good man what is striving to lift America up up up.
Four years go fast – let’s make the most of them. Treasure them. Savor them.
This is a reprieve we’ve received by Grace alone – and we should never forget that.
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/8/2017 @ 2:16 pmLike that of Mubarak and gadaffi, the last was a lesson to those who would cooperate with is. A generation ago the Algerian junta so thoroughly routed the base of the his they could lecture bashir hypocritivally with it, telling him to show leniency if not mercy.
narciso (f43143) — 7/8/2017 @ 2:22 pmWe need a different color for happyfeet’s comments.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/8/2017 @ 2:27 pm“The question is this: we are presented with the case of a small, petty man who daily reveals his obsession with the fixation that he is being mistreated by the news media. ”
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 7/8/2017 @ 2:27 pmAnn’s he seems to suggest the same remedy as Pytin….assassination.
Yes, you are right about the double standard. I have one.
I judge the plumber by his success or failure at clearing the lateral.
I judge the President and most politicians by this same standard.
I judge you by a different, higher standard – though I don’t doubt, given a power snake, you’d do quick work with the drain.
If I didn’t have this double standard, I’d be reading the plumber’s blog, not yours.
That I hold you to a higher standard is a badge of honor, not disrespect.
ThOR (c9324e) — 7/8/2017 @ 2:30 pm“But God smiled on us, ” Is happy feet happy because Jesus washed them? I suspect more unchristian-like attitudes will be forthcoming not intending to bring reproach on the Son of God. Nevertheless, Pharisees gotta Pharisee.
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 7/8/2017 @ 2:31 pmTRUMP: GOD’S BLESSING.
BE GREATFUL, YOU INGRATES!
How am I doing happy feet?
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 7/8/2017 @ 2:33 pmyou got the spirit of it i daresay
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/8/2017 @ 2:34 pmIt’s not a higher standard. It’s a double standard.
For Trump, you say:
You say “our fellows” and not “people I respect less.” It sounds so lofty.
But you won’t apply that lofty standard to me.
It is a double standard.
Patterico (115b1f) — 7/8/2017 @ 2:35 pmI think you mean NAILED IT!!!
Pharisees rule (for a short time)
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 7/8/2017 @ 2:40 pmyou got the ball picklehead now you have to run with it
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/8/2017 @ 2:41 pmIf you respect Patterico then you should be glad he gives you his honest opinions, ThOR. It’s easy to respect someone you agree with. Respect also means trying to understand and accept other opinions even if you don’t agree with them.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/8/2017 @ 2:44 pmBTW my carpenter knows a lot about philosophy and I’ve learned a lot from him. I think you are being kind of elitist, ThOR.
DRJ (15874d) — 7/8/2017 @ 2:46 pmI certainly have your persona cubby holed for future reference, hypocrite.
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 7/8/2017 @ 3:00 pmI hope you are good at returning serves as I’m ranked in single digits.
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 7/8/2017 @ 3:01 pmTRUMP: Sir, about all that help you gave me in the last election…
PUTIN: We didn’t do it.
TRUMP: That’s what I thought.
PUTIN: (struggling to keep a straight face) You have my word of honor as a former officer of KGB.
Dave (711345) — 7/8/2017 @ 4:45 pmI posted this morning that Putin’s comment you are referring to was made prior to the private meeting, during the trip and grin for the cameras. So Putin’s comment was not the result of anything said by Trump in the meeting. I posited the theory above that it was a preconceived and planned comment by Putin to bait the anti-Trump press into a reaction – which given their Pavlovian conditioning the gladly provided in spades.
Shipwreckedcrew (b2849d) — 7/8/2017 @ 6:32 pmMy earlier comment is #304.
Shipwreckedcrew (b2849d) — 7/8/2017 @ 6:35 pmOne has to wonder why the default position some people take is to claim Trump’s words are meaningless, or you need to take them figuratively, not literally, or, don’t listen to what he says, watch what he does. Why is there a special formula for this president, unlike his predecessor, whom we all readily took to task when he stepped in it and on it? Why does this president deserve special care when he speaks? Why can he not be judged on what he says using the same standards we used on Obama? Is he really that precious?
It is quite possible to criticize, even harshly, this president while still not hating him nor wishing him to fail. The reflexive action I see, and almost Pavlovian, is when any criticism or critique of the president is immediately condemned, rationed away, or worse, it becomes personal as the one offering an honest criticism is attacked.
Dana (023079) — 7/8/2017 @ 6:42 pmThanks, I did not see that. Do you have a link to that effect?
Patterico (a048af) — 7/8/2017 @ 6:53 pmNot a link showing that it was made in the presence of reporters (which I know) but that it occurred before the meeting.
Patterico (a048af) — 7/8/2017 @ 6:55 pm#377
Uh, no.
As I said life is defined by two things of which neither sperm, nor egg, nor zygote qualify.
so your slippery slope reasoning is frankly stupid because it could be used it to justify killing 5 year olds.
So back to the drawing board for you since a neither a 5 year old, nor an 80 year old nor a 3 month old in uterus is anything else but ALIVE.
The rest is excuse based on feelings.
Blah (44eaa0) — 7/8/2017 @ 9:00 pm#489
Patterico, I know what actions I judge Trump by. I can see and read that. I also actually try and understand what Orange Man is saying and drawing conclusions based on that … much like Obola also.
Pray tell what actions of yours are we to do same with?
I only know you by that which u write, that is it, and to many of us you do have a double standard as it relates to Orange Man.
Blah (44eaa0) — 7/8/2017 @ 9:09 pmI have suggested that my response to a particular lawsuit matters.
Bullshit. There is no double standard and you can’t begin to articulate one.
Patterico (a048af) — 7/8/2017 @ 9:22 pmWhich play was it?
narciso (d1f714) — 7/8/2017 @ 9:23 pm