Patterico's Pontifications

5/4/2017

The House Voting On Health Care Today

Filed under: General — Dana @ 6:51 am

[guest post by Dana]

The vote is today, and the White House is feeling “optimistic” about it:

[T]he American Health Care Act would nix the requirement that most Americans purchase insurance, but it would keep in place a provision allowing younger Americans to stay on their parents’ health plans until age 26.

The Republican proposal would repeal the ACA’s tax credits, which are based on income and the cost of health insurance in their local market, and replace those with less generous tax credits based on age.

The most contentious element centers on how to deal with patients that have pre-existing conditions, such as cancer, asthma, or diabetes. The Affordable Care Act bars insurance companies from discriminating against those with pre-existing conditions. The GOP bill would weaken that protection by allowing states to seek a waiver for insurance companies to charge people with pre-existing conditions higher premiums than other consumers.

In an effort to woo moderate Republicans who feared that would put insurance costs out of reach for many sick patients, GOP leaders and the White House agreed to include an extra $8 billion to help patients with existing health problems.

Both Speaker Paul Ryan and House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy say they have the necessary votes. Republicans can only afford to lose 22 votes and still be able to pass the bill.

(Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.)

–Dana

185 Responses to “The House Voting On Health Care Today”

  1. Good morning.

    Dana (023079)

  2. How much editorializing in those two paragraphs ‘less generous’ by whose standards and charging a risk premium is ‘weakening the protection’

    narciso (e8a6ee)

  3. Good morning, Dana.

    But 238 (Republicans) minus 193 (Democrats) equals 45. Which is what made the last failure so jaw-dropping. What am I missing this time? The Freedom Caucus again?

    nk (dbc370)

  4. narciso, I read a number of pieces about it this morning, and frankly, I was hard-pressed to find any that didn’t include such obvious editorializing and selective use of adjectives.

    Dana (023079)

  5. Meghan McCain’s hateful cowardly brainwashed and deeply damaged daddy’s Republican Main Street Partnership has emerged as the greatest stumbling block to obamacare repeal

    i’ll be curious too see how many of these ones vote today to keep doing obamacare all up in it

    and that’s the importance of today really

    cowardly trashy useless paul ryan republicans have to go on record

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  6. No the Tuesday group is probably still not happy, they want rocky road.

    narciso (e8a6ee)

  7. It’s maddening I know an editor who has to red pen most of the ap gunk they send him

    narciso (e8a6ee)

  8. But Jimmy Kimmel says babies will die…….

    harkin (bb95ff)

  9. jimmy kimmel lol

    network tv trash gonna be trashy

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  10. Who would have thought Adam carolla would turn out the sensible one.

    narciso (e8a6ee)

  11. Who would have thought Adam carolla would turn out the sensible one.

    narciso (e8a6ee) — 5/4/2017 @ 7:17 am

    Actually I would have. I’ve listened to his podcasts, not regularly, but on occasion and he seems to make all kinds of sense. I take it he was once a general contractor.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  12. That was partially rhetorical they were partners in the man show, back in the daym

    narciso (e8a6ee)

  13. -Blocks federal payments to Planned Parenthood for a year.

    In early April, conveniently timed news leaked that Ivanka Trump met with Planned Parenthood president Cecile Richards to apparently “seek common ground on the contentious issue of abortion.” Now, a new (and extremely in-depth) New York Times profile on the First Daughter provides more insight into that conversation — including the fact that Ivanka told Richards the organization should be split in two.

    […]

    According to White House officials, Ivanka’s proposal was an attempt to “find a common-sense solution” (even though the organization doesn’t use federal funds on abortion services). Planned Parenthood officials reportedly found Ivanka’s proposal to be “naïve” and a demonstration of how little the First Daughter understands about the group’s mission, particularly the importance of reproductive choice in women’s health.

    specifically:

    She also had a proposal: Planned Parenthood should split in two, Ms. Trump suggested, with a smaller arm to provide abortions and a larger one devoted to women’s health services.

    i can’t find any fault with our friend Ivanka here

    so that’s nice for a change

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  14. It still renders too much to moloch, they forget the other side is a ‘cook book’

    narciso (e8a6ee)

  15. still i think it was ballsy of her to go to that low-rent bull-d-word cecile and make this proposal

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  16. Ivanka is indeed naive if she does not understand that Roe v. Wade was the best thing to happen to the Grand Old Plutocrats since Reconstruction. If not for Roe v. Wade eliminating the natural born Democrats on the front end and stirring up the pro-life people on the back end, the Democrats would have a 70% plus majority nationwide. GOP politicians should secretly donate to Planned Parenthood (and I wouldn’t be surprised if they all do).

    nk (dbc370)

  17. why does jimmy kimmel continue to hoard all those millions of dollars in the bank when he could be helping poor people pay for health insurance policies for their sick babies?

    hasn’t he made enough money?

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  18. I think there will come a reckoning for that kind of thinking, as it was in the time of Jeremiah and elijah

    narciso (e8a6ee)

  19. re #s 8 & 9, concerning Jimmy Kimmel.

    Recall this?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwIyLHsk2h4

    Hollywood showing its concern and how it prioritizes. GLZ.

    Gary L. Zerman (ab669e)

  20. that’s so cynical Mr. nk

    R’s wake up every day thinking what can i do today to convince one young african-american girl to choose LIFE and then they plan their day accordingly

    doing the Lord’s work, they are

    Every time you hear a baby’s laughter you should stop and think hey if it wasn’t for Republicans that laugh would have been a choked stillborn scream in the womb.

    Nevertheless, they persisted you see.

    And they will never ever stop.

    This is called conviction maybe you should look that word up mister.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  21. 3. nk (dbc370) — 5/4/2017 @ 7:05 am

    But 238 (Republicans) minus 193 (Democrats) equals 45…What am I missing this time?

    Every switch of a vote from yes to no, reduces the difference by 2. 45 divided by 2 is 22.5

    Sammy Finkelman (9668e6)

  22. 8. harkin (bb95ff) — 5/4/2017 @ 7:09 am

    But Jimmy Kimmel says babies will die…….

    Propaganda by hospitals and doctors and the AMA. New born babies will be treated because of EMLATA, passed in 1986, which applies to any hospital that takes Medicare. Doctors and hospitals might not get paid.

    Of course the baby might also not be insurable.

    Sammy Finkelman (9668e6)

  23. She also had a proposal: Planned Parenthood should split in two, Ms. Trump suggested, with a smaller arm to provide abortions and a larger one devoted to women’s health services.

    happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/4/2017 @ 7:39 am

    i can’t find any fault with our friend Ivanka here

    so that’s nice for a change

    But they won’t do it, because Planned Parenthood and the Democrats as well, are not trying to avoid the issue. Planned Parenthood actually wants to leverage the otehr things it does to provide support for abortion.

    Even though they are not technically being paid for abortions, how overhead and other things are assigned affects how much they charge for other things.

    Sammy Finkelman (9668e6)

  24. Got it. Thank you, Sammy. I was thinking in terms of abstention and not switching votes.

    nk (dbc370)

  25. The problem with the bill’s approach to pre-existing conditions is that, when states get waivers, ir is easily possible that not enough money will be put into the High-risk pools, and the people in the high risk polls will still be charged very high premiums, and not premiums everybody else is charged, and so they don’t go into he high risk pools. Plus people won’t even know they should apply.

    The math in Obamacare doesn’t work, and nothing else will work that doesn’t leave some people out in the lurch unless more money is added.

    Sammy Finkelman (9668e6)

  26. Yeah, nk – shouldnt supposed white nationalists (not nationalists who happen to be white, Rev.) be sticking up for PP?

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  27. Cynical? Good people will not have abortions except for compelling reasons and there is no reason for government to encourage bad people to perpetuate their kind. If bad people want to kill their babies, let them kill their babies, and let God judge them.

    nk (dbc370)

  28. Romney and his posse started this nightmare.

    mg (31009b)

  29. can’t argue with that

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  30. Romney and his posse started this nightmare.

    Thank you Mr. mg this gets overlooked far far too often, and it’s detrimental to all good things when people fail to see Mitt Romney for what he is.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  31. You dont think we shall be judged collectively for not trying to prevent it, there’s always a rationalization for murder theft, avarice et al

    narciso (e8a6ee)

  32. Mittens he was linked by Gruber who tried out another hot take, high risk pools are like internment camps.

    narciso (e8a6ee)

  33. We prevent it the way Christ did, not the way the Pharisees did. We soften the hardness of their hearts, not stone them.

    happyfeet, did you think when I said I had changed my views on abortion I was only saying it to bug you?

    nk (dbc370)

  34. The current issue is regarding having the govt pay for the sacrificial daggers is that a preeminent function

    narciso (e8a6ee)

  35. well kinda

    here

    this story of loss has a happy ending

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  36. Not even a particularly appropriate government function. Except to the extent of enforcing medical standards. Totally different question.

    nk (dbc370)

  37. But they won’t even allow that, yet it is apparently a funding priority.

    narciso (e8a6ee)

  38. chop chop when are these idiot depraved chuckleheads gonna vote already

    i’ve already gotten SO much done today

    what’s wrong with these people

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  39. this is kind of a fascinating peek at a whirl we don’t encounter much in our pedestrian everyday life and you learn interesting toids of fact for example:

    Unlike most abandoned mines in California that were shut down because there was no more gold; the Governor Mine was shut down because President Franklin D. Roosevelt ordered all gold miners to work at iron mines in order utilize their mining skills to make weapons in World War II.

    this one has a cool youtube that goes along with it

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  40. 40, that reminds me of the old Army commercial boast “we get more done by 9:00am than most people do all day”. Of course Ice Cube made a certain one word edit in the preface to his one rap about Killing Sam (cuz he’s not my m-f uncle).

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  41. Donuffin Congress.

    Eliminating the mandate good. Eliminating the mandate without eliminating the conforming policy requirement (where I have to pay for maternity coverage whether I want it or not) is going to raise premiums astronomically because fewer people will stay in the pool.

    nk (dbc370)

  42. The rumor of the day is that the GOP’s bill forbids spending money on a border wall. Anybody know if this is so, and if it is, why we’d want that?

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  43. Yes that spring surprise, from whizzo chocolates, who the heck knows why anymore

    narciso (aeaccc)

  44. As the esteemed Porter at Kakistocracy pointed out:

    Insurance is you paying me a premium to indemnify you against the risk of loss. That is the risk of loss, not its certainty. That’s a fundamental difference for the few commenters hateful enough to acknowledge it.

    In the words of its liberal authors, it barred “discrimination” against people with preexisting conditions. But the truth is Obamacare does discriminate…against people without preexisting conditions. This being a drearily familiar model to that of the US “civil rights” framework. (screwing one group in favor of another)

    In any event, the Obamacare underwriting ban meant two things: insurers couldn’t a) deny coverage to people who would cost more than they could pay, or b) charge higher premiums for the sick.

    But mandating coverage for a known condition with known costs isn’t actually insurance at all. (once again the left hijacks a word and changes its meaning) It’s simply cost transference. If there’s a 100% chance you are going to cost me $100,000 year for a $10,000 premium, you’re not asking for an insurer, you’re asking for a patron. And the unwilling Obamacare patrons are the young and healthy people forced to subsidize the $90,000 difference.

    The whole idea that insurance is a “right” and that everybody should be covered for everything regardless of cost is what the left propagandized Obamacare to be. The entire concept is an economically, medically and socially impossible idea not designed to actually help the sick but to tear apart and bankrupt the republic.

    Like everything else the phuking left does, I might add. It’s time to stop playing with these seditious criminals.

    Rev.Hoagie® (630eca)

  45. Japan has struck so-called “flammable ice” at a new offshore test well as the resource-poor country works to exploit a revolutionary energy source.

    The Japan Oil, Gas and Metals National Corporation said it was flaring gas from the drillship Chikyu after methane began to flow from its test well in the Nankai Trough, off the coast of Mie prefecture in central Japan.*

    this is the energy source pedicure-lovin jerseytrash p.o.s. fascist cory booker wants to make off-limits to America

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  46. nk pointed out:

    Eliminating the mandate good. Eliminating the mandate without eliminating the conforming policy requirement (where I have to pay for maternity coverage whether I want it or not) is going to raise premiums astronomically because fewer people will stay in the pool.

    Porter continues and answers you, nk:

    So if I understand correctly (and I’ll grant I may not), tonight’s latest repeal iteration would allow states to reinstate medical underwriting at their discretion. Liberals are naturally howling at the excavation of immoral states’ rights. This being a concept about which they were writing sonnets some 30 minutes ago when it involved voiding federal immigration enforcement orders.

    Though the presumed reform legislation would exert an undeniable gravity. States that choose medical underwriting programs (i.e., conservative states) will heavily incentivize in-migration of healthy people for the lower rates and out-migration of the old and sick in recoil from higher rates. Thus liberal states will lose their subsidizing payers as they gain healthcare consumers.

    That suggests a very poor prognosis for bruised Berkeley antifas. And I don’t know what health outcome could possibly be better.

    Rev.Hoagie® (630eca)

  47. Like everything else the phuking left does, I might add. It’s time to stop playing with these seditious criminals.

    Rev.Hoagie® (630eca) — 5/4/2017 @ 9:42 am

    YES!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Colonel Haiku (9298f8)

  48. How can anyone forget the Obama – Snowe show? Olympia, baby, you knifed us.
    Her vote was devastating.

    mg (31009b)

  49. With the new spending bill the porkaholics force fed the voters, I have a hard time believing this bill will be to my benefit.
    Can only judge it when it is forced upon me at a later date.

    mg (31009b)

  50. C.J. Roberts put the nail in the coffin with his booosh doctrine ruling.
    Vote 3rd. party

    mg (31009b)

  51. I dunno, FNC is pushing the signing of the religious freedom EO, might be trying to hide a struggle for vote #23.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  52. speaking of voting,
    that nasty barack guy is interfering with france’s election
    by endorsing that nasty macron cretin
    obviously, barack hates women
    if he liked women, he would endorse le pen

    i can’t wait for the media to start calling him a misogynist

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  53. narciso, that was a good summary.

    In my opinion, the only solution is to make insurance what it was before LBJ. That is to allow insurance that is insurance and not prepaid care. Insurance companies don’t want to write insurance for individuals. They want to “administer” health plans funded by employers. Obamacare was the same concept only funded by the feds.

    Where they have had skin in the game they have lost badly. Processing claims is expensive.

    I have been a fan of the French system for years. I think it would be a good model for Medicare reform.

    I have had this posted since 2007 on my blog.

    For the young, catastrophic insurance is far cheaper. For pre-existing conditions, what the French do is to pay for that diagnosis out of a special fund. Otherwise, they use regular insurance.

    One huge problem for HSAs is the penalty doctors pay for discounting for cash. That’s why we see them dropping all insurance. It is illegal to participate in Medicare and offer lower prices to cash patients.

    If a doctor these days has a contract with insurance companies (Before I retired 20 years ago I had 276) offering a cash discount will cause him/her to be dropped from the contract.

    Mike K (f469ea)

  54. The Affordable Care Act bars insurance companies from discriminating against those with pre-existing conditions. The GOP bill would weaken that protection by allowing states to seek a waiver for insurance companies to charge people with pre-existing conditions higher premiums than other consumers.

    AKA: Death Panels.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  55. Preventative care: the GOP led House just voted on a provision to exempt itself from the very health bill it wants to impose on the rest of America. Now there’s a confidence builder.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  56. You really don’t understand anything.

    narciso (c823d8)

  57. @58- No, you don’t. ‘Na-na-na-na-na-na-na, hey, hey, goodbye.’

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  58. AKA: Death Panels.

    How is a higher premium for a greater risk a “death panel”? And it’s not even a risk, it’s a given. By all rights it’s uninsurable. It’s like trying to buy homeowners for a burnt down house.

    Rev.Hoagie® (630eca)

  59. @58- No, you don’t. ‘Na-na-na-na-na-na-na, hey, hey, goodbye.’
    DCSCA (797bc0) — 5/4/2017 @ 11:30 am

    “devastating” argument. Poor narciso may never recover from the eye-roll.

    felipe (b5e0f4)

  60. To hear the Democrats on C-Span, we’re heading back to the days of frontier medicine and VA-like compassion. Shameless, goddam liars.

    Colonel Haiku (9298f8)

  61. 58… no narciso, the huckster surely does not…

    Colonel Haiku (9298f8)

  62. Zounds how can I compete with camelbert curd?

    narciso (f5d7b5)

  63. DCSCA’s just doing his best screeching drama queen impersonation of estelle parsons in bonnie and clyde

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjVPv5aO_no

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  64. @61. ‘never recover.’ — TrumpCare 101.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  65. @65- And it was an Academy Award winning performance, too!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  66. of the 20 Rs who voted against the repeal bill, a full 14 of of them are corrupt bought and paid for socialism-loving trash that have joined with execrable disgrace-to-his-uniform coward John McCain to form the Republican main Street Partnership

    Charlie Dent (PA)

    Leonard Lance (NJ)

    Dan Donovan (NY)

    Pat Meehan (PA)

    Barbara Comstock (VA)

    Jaime Herrera Beutler (WA)

    Dave Reichert (WA)

    John Katko (PA)

    Ryan Costello (PA)

    Frank A. LoBiondo (NJ)

    Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (OINK)

    Michael R. Turner (OH)

    David Joyce (OH)

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  67. *Main* Street i mean

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  68. Yes but AT least its not freedom filth, right David spade.

    narciso (f5d7b5)

  69. yes yes Andy Biggs of Arizona is the only member of the freedom filth what voted to do yummy hot sticky obamacare all up in it for eternity

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  70. From Billy Bush to Rose bush. Desperate for any image of a win, JR is throwing a party in the Rose Garden for House GOPers bussed down from the Hill who voted for legislation that’s not even gone to the Senate.

    What a show!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  71. Ryan: ‘We’ve been working on this for 7 years.”
    Trump: “We’ve been working on this for 8 weeks.”

    What a show!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  72. mom would always tell us only to water the base of the rose bushes and to never get the leaves wet cause of some sort of mildew issue or something

    i just did what i was told

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  73. DCSCA, Just purse your lips and whistle. [YouTube]

    papertiger (c8116c)

  74. Happy, Andy Biggs represents one of those famous bouncy AZ districts and is a member of that other M religion.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  75. he needs to repent and find Jesus I think

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  76. My favorite thing about Jason Bourne, in the middle of high speed pursuit, while playing the part of the rabbit, he can glance at a road map in a foreign country, and never misses the exit while weaving through oncoming traffic.

    What a show!

    papertiger (c8116c)

  77. Enough can’t be said about the leadership role played by Mark Meadows and the Freedom Filth (please note the capitalization scheme, happy) in getting this bill through.

    “(OINK)” – LOL

    ThOR (c9324e)

  78. yes yes all in all (except for weirdo socialist Andy Biggs) the Freedom Filth against all odds *did* manage to make a positive contribution and keep their promise to vote to repeal the obamacare

    and that is something we should all grudgingly acknowledge

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  79. The “preexisting condition” group is welfare, pure and simple. They should get Medicaid and have an option to pay more.

    Obamacare is Medicaid with higher income limits, anyway.

    I doubt McConnell will get this through the Senate without ending the filibuster of legislation.

    The Senate is no longer the “world’s most exclusive club.” The Democrats are all insane and I don’t see them recovering.

    They may turn out to be the Whigs unable to cope with Trump, like the Whigs could not handle slavery.

    Mike K (f469ea)

  80. if Jason Bourne didn’t exist we’d have to make him up

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  81. Mike K (f469ea) — 5/4/2017 @ 10:48 am

    One huge problem for HSAs is the penalty doctors pay for discounting for cash. That’s why we see them dropping all insurance. It is illegal to participate in Medicare and offer lower prices to cash patients.

    If a doctor these days has a contract with insurance companies (Before I retired 20 years ago I had 276) offering a cash discount will cause him/her to be dropped from the contract.

    But it is perfectly legal and expected for doctors and hospitals to charge higher prices to cash (non-insurance) patients.

    What’s going to be the story witgh my friend. He hhad Medicaid, but evidenbtly he delayed in reapplying, mailed it in too late, so his coverage expired March 31 and the new one will start June 1. He saw a podiatrist, and at that point discovered he wasn’t covered. He doesn’t know what the bill will be.

    I think maybe they have to charge, but they can settle for any amount.

    Sammy Finkelman (9668e6)

  82. Mike K (f469ea) — 5/4/2017 @ 1:23 pm

    Obamacare is Medicaid with higher income limits, anyway.

    It includes that, but the the policies bought on the exchanges are not Medicaid.

    There’s no asset test for Obamacare and there’s no clawback, like the $15,000 bill another friend of mine received a few years ago from New York State for going on Medicaid and then getting a job.

    Not that they’ve made any serious attempt to collect. That would happen if she won the lottery.

    Sammy Finkelman (9668e6)

  83. “Here’s my prediction: A month from now, we’ll be laughing about all this handwringing (about ObamaCare repeal). In the mean time, the conservative EOs will continue to flow and Gorsuch will be on the court. I’m looking forward to a very good month.”

    ThOR (c9324e) — 3/29/2017 @ 9:49 pm

    I was wrong. Should’a said “five weeks from now.”

    It was a good month, wasn’t it?

    ThOR (c9324e)

  84. Hope this bill gets fixed in the senate!!!
    lol

    mg (31009b)

  85. i love how good President Trump’s doing

    he actually got Paul Ryan to pass a piece of major legislation, which is something obama never even tried to do

    that’s AMAZING

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  86. But it is perfectly legal and expected for doctors and hospitals to charge higher prices to cash (non-insurance) patients.

    I don’t think you understand. They HAVE to charge “retail” prices to everyone or be illegal.

    A lot of people, perhaps including you, don’t understand how health insurance works.

    Let’s say you have a policy that has a 20% “copay.” You go to a surgery center for a small surgery. You see the bill and pay 20% of it after insurance pays “the rest.” What you don’t realize is that the insurance company has a contract with that hospital; or surgery center, What they pay is so heavily discounted from “retail” that your “20%” may, in fact be more than what the insurance company pays.

    Now, I have not been in active practice for 20 years and things may have changed but, if I look at the EOB on an office visit to the pain doc I used to see about my back, he was getting 10% of his billed charges.

    Private insurance, which I no longer have except Medi-Gap, keeps secret their actual payments. It is a “trade secret.”

    You don’t know what the real payment is. The reason for cash practices is that the doc can charge everyone the same and do away with a third of his/her overhead. That is the “back office” that bills insurance and Medicare.

    One of the reasons I had 276 contracts when I was in practice is that all the insurance companies and HMOs had different requirements and different networks. It’s one reason most doctors have sold their practices to the hospital. That puts the overhead on somebody else and you just get a monthly salary, although it usually includes big time incentives to follow rules.

    Most rules are about rationing care and, when I was still in practice, some GPs got “bonus” payments equal to their annual salary. If they admitted too many people to the hospital or had too many get surgery, the bonus went away.

    Hospitals were eager to buy up practices as they thought Obamacare was going to be a bonanza for them. Now, when exchanges are going broke and insurance companies are pulling out, guess where they plan to save money ?

    Your knee replacement.

    Mike K (f469ea)

  87. vívosmart HR+ (by Garmin): Because tagging her like a shark would be wrong. [YouTube]

    papertiger (c8116c)

  88. 12. This bill superficially sounds better than what it is. Some members of Congress have succeeded only in fooling themselves.

    1. It ends the mandate. It substitutes a 30 percent surcharge (for 2 years only) to customers who’ve let coverage lapse for more than 63 days in the past year. This won’t work any better than the mandate does in getting people to buy high priced policies.

    More people will go without insurance like the CBO says, unless , as President Trump has said, new policies whose premiums are no larger than the tax credit get created, (and the process is made easy and seamless, with no up front payments required – taht will need to be done too, if you want near 100% enrollment.)

    This can be expected to happen, but will take time (but maybe the transition period is long enough) and people will take even longer to find out about them, unless insurance companies marketing departments send people multiple pieces of mail and make lots of robo calls to the people who are not on the do not call list and advertise on the Internet, and maybe radio and TV.

    That insurance won’t be very good, but will be free. It will probably be catastrophic that kicks in at well above the prices most people buying it can afford to spare, limited in areas of coverage (no maternity, no drug addiction etc.) Almost useless insurance, that nobody will ever be interested in benefitting from (if someone doesn’t want to use it, it helps the insurance company) but it will be at no cost, and it will exempt people from the 30% surcharge, as well as give the purchasers the benefits of the discounts from list price negotiated by the insurance company.

    No effort seems to have been made to help people cover the high deductible. It could be done, for instance, by loans from the IRS, or by adjusting someone’s anticpated future Social Security benefits, and accepting some losses.

    2. Ends the Obamacare tax increases. Democrats will accuse of Republicans of only being interested in this aspect of the bill.

    3. Changing Medicaid from an open-ended program that covers costs to one that gives states fixed amounts of money annually by age perhaps sounds good to an uninformed person, but the waste, fraud and abuse present in New York State won’t magically disappear. A few things can cut costs quickly, of course, like keeping people out of nursing homes.

    Work requirements are not terrible, if fairly imposed on people who can do the work, but the civil service unions don’t like them because they could substitute for municipal, state and county workers. Right now I think where they exist they are not supposed to do jobs that the entity otherwise pays people to do. That makes this make-work and just adds to the costs.

    4. The change in insurance subsidies to a fixed amount means many people will not be able to afford their current policy, but like I said, new, inadequate and virtually useless policies geared to the tax credit might be created. A really innovative company might actually create some limited insurance that made sense – maybe super-high catastrophic combined with an amount of benefits 60% of the people might use some of.

    5. That the high risks pools are supposed to cover people with serious, expensive-to-treat diseases is right. Supposed to but they won’t in reality.

    It is much too easy to underfund them. This could be done right. There must be an open ended appropriation. You can minimize the actual costs by auctioning off the reinsurance.

    Sammy Finkelman (9668e6)

  89. 88. Mike K (f469ea) — 5/4/2017 @ 2:04 pm

    They HAVE to charge “retail” prices to everyone or be illegal.

    But they don’t have to collect the bill now do they? They can settle for less, now can’t they? This only applies to the original bill, right?

    Q. Do they have to report failure t pay in full to a credit reporting agency like Transunion?

    You go to a surgery center for a small surgery. You see the bill and pay 20% of it after insurance pays “the rest.” What you don’t realize is that the insurance company has a contract with that hospital; or surgery center, What they pay is so heavily discounted from “retail” that your “20%” may, in fact be more than what the insurance company pays.

    That I didn’t know.

    Private insurance, which I no longer have except Medi-Gap, keeps secret their actual payments. It is a “trade secret.”

    That I read this year.

    Now this is something that Congress should correct. But they’re writing the bill(s) so quickly.

    I would change the law so that cash payers could not be billed more than 15th percentile of whatever non-casash payers were billed. Thats a first step toward reform. It probably can’t be done in isolation.

    Sammy Finkelman (9668e6)

  90. Hospitals bill all sorts of people all sorts of charges and many of those people never pay anything.

    harkin (bb95ff)

  91. The first obamacare bill started in the Senate so it’s natural that Corker and McCain et al are butthurt.

    Maverick wants to cut the House bill open and crawl inside like Luke Skywalker or Rob Roy McGreggor.

    Pinandpuller (5c670b)

  92. Private insurance, which I no longer have except Medi-Gap, keeps secret their actual payments. It is a “trade secret.”

    Not true. I can go online and see what the official charge was, what my insurance paid, and what I should pay as copay/deductible. I saw my GI doctor Friday. He charged $155, was paid $67.14 by CIGNA, and I am supposed to pay $28.78. I had a colonoscopy yesterday. Those bills are still in process, it seems. But in due course I will see the figures.

    kishnevi (4a5f25)

  93. Donde Ted?

    There’s no massaging the lies from the GOPe and DJT that this is a meaningful repeal. I am bitterly disappointed that the Freedom Caucus went along with this. I’m not shocked, though.

    We were granted a reprieve of sorts with the defeat of HRC. We refuse to accept it.

    Iowa lost its last exchange provider, aka the total collapse of Obamacare there. I believe Virginia is on the precipice. And what does the opposition party do with this gift? Sign up for more Obamacare.

    Ed from SFV (3400a5)

  94. When these pathetic hacks have the exact same health care as me, I will feel better

    mg (31009b)

  95. go-litely, kishnevi!

    mg (31009b)

  96. It will probably be catastrophic that kicks in at well above the prices most people buying it can afford to spare,

    You mean like Obamacare ? :)

    The premiums for catastrophic insurance are low once the mandates are eliminated.

    I can go online and see what the official charge was, what my insurance paid, and what I should pay as copay/deductible.

    OK, Maybe that is different now. The last I heard it did apply to facilities.

    They HAVE to charge “retail” prices to everyone or be illegal.
    But they don’t have to collect the bill now do they?

    You read about those doctors in the newspaper. Accepting the Medicare payment, not the “allowance,” as payment in full is ILLEGAL ! The Medicare law was intended to pay only 20% and MediGap policies pay the rest but also have deductibles.

    Mike K (f469ea)

  97. That should have said Medicare was intended to pay only 80% and the rest was supposed to control utilization.

    MediGap pays the 20% but also has deductibles.

    Mike K (f469ea)

  98. http://www.syracuse.com/politics/index.ssf/2017/05/trump_rolls_back_johnson_amendment_allowing_churches_to_endorse_candidates.html

    That’s the most honest headline/version.

    The rest seem to be going out of way to misinform.

    President Trump’s executive order targets church involvement in politics – USA Today on MSN.com

    LGBT groups condemn Trump’s religious liberty executive order – (CNN)

    Trump Just Signed A ‘Religious Liberty’ Order Even Evangelicals Aren’t Enthusiastic About – Huffpo

    papertiger (c8116c)

  99. I was wrong. Should’a said “five weeks from now.”

    It was a good month, wasn’t it?

    ThOR

    It just barely squeaked through the house and now Trump will have to somehow get his healthcare bill through the Senate.

    So your claim that Obamacare would be repealed in a month hasn’t come true yet.

    Gorsuch remains the only thing Trump’s defenders can list among his clear accomplishments. That one’s getting a little stale.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  100. socialist trash like Dean Heller are promising to smear all that gooey sticky-sweet obamacare all up in it cause his trashy nevada trailer park constituents lurv them some welfare

    it’s a trashy welfare slut state, and he has to represent the medicaid-slut citizens of nevada

    but…

    in return for all the welfare though you’d think Dean Heller’s trashy constituents wouldn’t mind a little nuclear waste

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  101. the sleazy lying welfare-loving republican governor of nevada Brian Sandoval

    his mouth is basically a penis holster for the obamacare (if obamacare had a penis which it does not)

    getting between nevada trash and their welfare, it’s a perilous thing to do

    let’s be careful out there

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  102. Dustin remember that chemical weapons dump south of Damascus, that Putin predicted Trump would missile strike next?

    http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/israel-carries-airstrike-iranian-supplied-arms-depot-damascus-outside-airport/

    Syrian state media said Israeli missiles hit a military position southwest of the airport, but did not mention arms or fuel. It said “Israeli aggression” had caused explosions and some material losses, but did not expand on the damage.

    How does one protest to the media when your chemical weapons cache gets blown up by by a third party? It’s a conundrum.
    Does the Don get partial credit? How about Vladimir?

    papertiger (c8116c)

  103. Trump will have to somehow get his healthcare bill through the Senate.

    lol this isn’t Trump’s bill this is the bill the de-nutted Republican party thinks is the very very best they can do while they’re transitioning into a democrat-lite welfare-addicted tranny party that loves them some wiggly fetuses and jesus

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  104. lol this isn’t Trump’s bill

    Have some balls, happyfeet. Trump is out there taking credit for this bill passing the house as his victory. His fans in this thread are among the man explaining this marks a success near Trump’s first 100 days. Trump owns this bill. If it passes and improves our lives, he will gain political capital. If it fails or if it makes our lives worse, he is responsible for the failure.

    ustin remember that chemical weapons dump south of Damascus, that Putin predicted Trump would missile strike next?

    Not really. Busy week.

    Does the Don get partial credit? How about Vladimir?

    It’s so odd to me that folks who seemed reasonable not that long ago are out there asking if I’ll give credit to a murdering dictator like Putin, like they support him. WTF?

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  105. Meantime, the media has formed itself into two wings:
    1. “Meh, he didn’t do much of anything. He’s a failure.”
    2. “He over-reached! Sue him! Impeach him!”
    And they’re cancelling each other out, but maybe it’s because they compete for advertisers, or because they’re trying to show their “independence” after eight years of being [what Colbert said] for Obama.

    nk (dbc370)

  106. trump needs this bill to move on with his life and do tax reform

    you failmericans and your crappy health care, if perverted Mitt Romney (who invented it) and his shiny-slick useless boy toy Paul Ryan can’t unbreak it, they have to buy it

    and own it

    and sleazy welfare queen ohio-trash like burn victim John Kasich, they get to own it too

    but it sure as poop isn’t President Trump’s fault what you failmericans done on yourself

    you had the greatest health care in the whirl lol

    and now all you pathetic losers is gonna die in filthy roach-infested government hospitals

    just like your soldiers

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  107. Hang in there, Thor! The naysayers gonna naaaaaaayyyyyyy and the H8rs, well… the glass will remain empty for some.

    Colonel Haiku (9298f8)

  108. yeah y’all just ignore the h8rs

    President Trump’s doing all he can with what the good lord done give him

    he really did inherit just an ungodly mess

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  109. trump needs this bill to move on with his life and do tax reform

    Bwahahaha. Trump is going to have a blast answering questions about how any tax proposal must benefit him personally, which is why he hid his returns like a coward.

    he really did inherit just an ungodly mess

    happyfeet

    Obama? Is that you? Oh no, sorry I thought I heard Obama whining about inheriting a job he asked for… but it was Trump’s guys.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  110. no it’s me

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  111. Another example of the capricipiousness of the deep state.

    narciso (220ef7)

  112. 114. They’re really playing dirty but his proposal to move ONA to the WH is a bad idea.

    crazy (d3b449)

  113. So the military has been slashed to world war one levels, the health care system is on life support, its taken three years to return us to where we were in 2011, re Islamic state

    narciso (220ef7)

  114. Meanwhile didn’t Mattis’s people say this was for legit reasons?

    OMG WHAT IF TRUMP IS THE DEEP STATE

    Next on Alex Jones with a special guest… via Ouija board.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  115. Based on what whereas Brennan, Rhodes st al still hold their clearances

    narciso (220ef7)

  116. that be troubling, narciso.

    mg (31009b)

  117. Mattis’s Chief of Staff approved the suspension. This is Trump’s own people fighting for the President’s ear.

    nk (dbc370)

  118. Bwahahaha. Trump is going to have a blast answering questions about how any tax proposal must benefit him personally, which is why he hid his returns like a coward.

    Why would it matter if any tax proposal benefited Trump personally or not? By that standard only increases in taxes would ever be acceptable as any reduction would benefit people at higher levels. That’s like saying if Trump air conditions the White House it’s no good because he benefits from the cooler air. That is a childish, and typically leftist response.

    Secondly, the reason Trump did not reveal, or nefariously hid as you so nicely put it, his taxes just may be why they are kept confidential by the IRS: they are nobody’s business. The same reasons you would not publicize your taxes also apply to him. Plus, other people are involved in his taxes who do not deserve public scrutiny. Why don’t you reproduce your taxes for us all and let’s see them. You have nothing to hide, right? Until you do you need to STFU about anybody else’s personal finances.

    Rev.Hoagie® (630eca)

  119. Considering what the ona has been a party to in recent memory? In the kredo piece, every agency in the govt has been weaponized

    narciso (220ef7)

  120. Exactly hoagie recall how we pressured into voting for the overseer of the irs in spite of five years of tax avoidance.

    narciso (220ef7)

  121. This is going to be interesting at the state level, should this come out of the Senate unchanged.

    On the one hand, you have GOP-heavy self-employed and early-retired people who continue to be responsible about insurance. They will resent being dragged over the same coals Obama dragged them over.

    On the other had you have the deadbeats who only signed up for insurance because it was $12/month and no copays, and had decades of untreated conditions they suddenly wanted to treat. Everyone else will resent having to pay their bills for them.

    Then there are the blue states, which have to get the companies not to abandon them wholesale for places where they can go back to the old rules. I’m pretty sure they CAN keep them in-state, but it will get all pushy-shovey first.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  122. I’d swiftly take away that clearance, Clarence!

    Colonel Haiku (9298f8)

  123. i don’t like comments what say bwahaha

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  124. Another demonstration of why these democrats, their lackeys in the media and fellow running dogs are the enemies of America… http://bigleaguepolitics.com/exclusive-leaked-screenshots-reveal-buzzfeed-director-wishing-trump-assassination/

    Colonel Haiku (9298f8)

  125. I trust that price will continue the work, but he needs a roadmap to do the administrative fixes.

    narciso (220ef7)

  126. It’s always reassuring how level headed the left is:

    http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_590b8052e4b0d5d9049a7ab5?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009

    narciso (220ef7)

  127. She just can’t give up the rizzotto tray

    https://mobile.twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/860222218453876740

    narciso (220ef7)

  128. @ #131

    Even I can see that math not working out. How was $600 billion taken from the rich supposed to cover $1,000 billion of programs for the poor?

    Creative folding of the money?

    papertiger (c8116c)

  129. On the bright side, the NY Rangers won. Series tied at 2.

    NJRob (68f3b2)

  130. The left has traveled the final steps from subversive to treasonous. They cannot face the election of Donald Trump and have become completely unhinged. They are mounting protests daily over every single thing posited as news by the media. They are well organized and they intend to seize power at the next election. Whether or not they win will be irrelevant. They will never again allow The Deplorables to pull off a victory even if it means the complete dismantling of the Republic. Our country is in trouble. There is a seditious juggernaut calling itself The Resistance and the Antifa trying to overthrow the Constitutionally elected government of the United States. They crush Free Speech, attack and disrupt opposition speakers and otherwise use fake news and gestapo tactics to usurp the rights of Americans. This needs to end regardless the cost.

    Rev.Hoagie® (630eca)

  131. Good Allah!

    nk (dbc370)

  132. Antifa is the sds/panther alliance, which edegenerated into weather/bla the resistance is actually more troubling since it is the support system/ infrastructure

    narciso (220ef7)

  133. 135… teh Resistance… these people – and most of the Left and not a few #NeverTrumpistinis – have a pathological need to romanticize what they do, to view themselves as heroic. They need to portray themselves as virtuous, a cut above in ALL they think and do. It’s fascinating, albeit pathetic…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  134. They actually think the handmaid’s tale is plausible in this country, the only improvement from the original is Yvonne strahowski (The blonde from chuck) is playing the dunaway role.

    narciso (220ef7)

  135. Ahhhh. The perfect way to end this day:

    President Trump tells Australian PM Turnbull, on camera, tonight: “You have better healthcare than we do.” Australia, of course, has universal healthcare.

    Thank you, Mister President.

    “D’oh!”- Homer Simpson [Dan Castellaneta] ‘The Simpsons’ Fox Entertainment TV

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  136. You never co pay 20% of list price unless out of network. You co pay 20% of the contracted rate which normally is 50% or less, of the the list price.

    And cash pay patients are the most abused and done so because Insurance Companies are pigs who legislate themselves a competitive advantage over uninsured folks.

    Quite repulsive given self pay patients are cheaper to service and usually consume less gratuitous services.

    Worst is Medical, those piggies will be at your office every day wasting time if you let them … then you get paid maybe 20% of list if lucky,

    Anyway, even MD s don’t understand the system nor the economics of managing the business.

    Blah Blah (44eaa0)

  137. Medicaid , not Medical … auto correct sucks

    Blah Blah (44eaa0)

  138. President Trump tells Australian PM Turnbull, on camera, tonight: “You have better healthcare than we do.” Australia, of course, has universal healthcare.

    Thank you, Mister President.

    This isn’t much of a newsflash. Those paying attention are well aware that Trump is a fan of socialized healthcare. He is, after all, completely detached from the reality Americans live with, and he would not have to see any of his loved ones use this universal healthcare.

    The only saving grace is that Trump wasn’t able to completely flip flop on day one and was forced by conservatives to replace Scalia with a reasonable conservative. Of course it was McConnell who really made that happen.

    Why don’t you reproduce your taxes for us all and let’s see them. You have nothing to hide, right? Until you do you need to STFU about anybody else’s personal finances.

    Rev.Hoagie

    I’m not running for president, boot licker. Trump’s made his personal business my business quite plainly. Our government is intertwined with his hotels and other operations now. Millions and millions of my tax dollars go straight into Trump’s business. Perhaps when I do something like that you’ll be justified in asking for some transparency into my affairs, but right now you’re just a screaming man-child with no point, resorting to cussing.

    You’re a disgrace.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  139. Just so my feelings re clear:

    Rev.Hoagie

    It’s interesting how Trump’s fans have time for all this complaining about their feelings. I suppose most of them don’t work, and those who do, do not work hard.

    Hoagie, your picture that you don’t give a damn about Americans says everything I ever suspected about you. Your repeated screaming to “STFU” and you don’t give a damn what I think betrays the truth. The obsession with what I think defined you guys. You have no point of view of your own and have defined yourself completely around fear of political opponents. By your own choice, you’re owned completely by those who disagree with you, and it sure looks miserable.

    Cheers!

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  140. No link? Sorry but there’s just been too many time that “President Trump said… ” turned out to be
    “The Washington Post pulled this out of their rear today…”

    papertiger (c8116c)

  141. Remember when the media in tabernacle choir like single voice claimed President Trump did know that Andrew Jackson died before the beginning of the Civil War?

    Remember that? Good times.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  142. Whereas somethings are implausible to make up:

    https://www.google.com/amp/www.breitbart.com/big-hollywood/2017/05/04/cher-gop-health-care-bill-threatens-funding-treat-asthma/amp/

    Trump wasn’t just speaking about the past but the near future.

    narciso (220ef7)

  143. Btw rev, myself Thor, Steve I believe all voted for Cruz if memory serves.

    narciso (220ef7)

  144. I mean even with a link the chances of Trump having actually said that damning whatever it was only go up about 5%.

    Without nothing to back it? Foggetaboutit

    papertiger (c8116c)

  145. There’s also the fact Australia is about 7% of our population.

    narciso (220ef7)

  146. Remember when the media in tabernacle choir like single voice claimed President Trump did know that Andrew Jackson died before the beginning of the Civil War?

    When was this? Or, in other words, how long did it take for Kellyanne to read the Cliff’s Notes to him?

    nk (dbc370)

  147. And I thought the Left had a corner on Moral Narcissism, Dustin. Wow.

    Not to worry Reverend. We have a corner on Smith and Wesson.

    ThOR (c9324e)

  148. @144 Dustin

    You pay millions and millions in taxes? Congratulations!

    Or do you believe in collectivism after all?

    I’m sure you just misspoke.

    Pinandpuller (967d52)

  149. dustin, i imagine it must be a terrible burden to be so superior to everyone else

    there you are running a sub-four minute mile while the rest of us are at the starting line still trying to figure out how to tie our shoelaces

    no wonder you become visibly frustrated so easily and so often

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  150. @153, if you can shoot drunk or sober, scared or calm, and hit center of mass, a S&W Centennial is all you need. And if you can’t shoot that well, you need to invest in more practice ammo, not a different pistol.

    And if you live in an area infested with too many goblins to handle with a Centennial, upgrade to a rifle or shotgun.

    P.S., bad news friends. I called Albright’s gun shop in Easton, MD, on behalf of a friend.

    http://www.albrightsgunshop.com/

    I know it’s cliche to say, “I’m just asking for a friend.” But seriously I retired in 2008 and I have no reason to lie. Or since I’ve moved to Texas to go duck or goose hunting in Maryland. I was asking for a friend who is still in the Nav, still in Japan, and has reason to go to D.C. for conferences. I did the same thing back in the ’90s. Sometimes during duck season. Because of the time difference I told him I’d look into it for him.

    Albright’s gun shop does not rent shoguns to visiting hunters anymore. This is a tragedy that is beyond my ability to express. But I don’t blame them one bit, not in the current atmosphere. In fact, if you live in or near the eastern shore of the Chesapeake, support Albright’s gun shop. They are good people and deserve your support.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  151. Btw rev, myself Thor, Steve I believe all voted for Cruz if memory serves.
    narciso (220ef7) — 5/4/2017 @ 10:04 pm

    I can now be hated by everybody. This has been a goal of mine since I was fifteen.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  152. And I thought the Left had a corner on Moral Narcissism, Dustin. Wow.

    Not to worry Reverend. We have a corner on Smith and Wesson.

    ThOR

    Nothing I said praised myself in any way. Sad when a commenter I like is dishonest, but I didn’t really leave the typical Trump Defense Force anything else to work with I guess.

    Strive for honor.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  153. if you can shoot drunk or sober, scared or calm, and hit center of mass, a S&W Centennial is all you need

    Nice and simple, Steve!

    You pay millions and millions in taxes? Congratulations!

    Or do you believe in collectivism after all?

    I’m sure you just misspoke.

    Pinandpuller

    LOL I wish! Yeah I had a stupid there.

    Nevertheless, among the many annoying things for conservatives like me is how the GOP doesn’t appear to care about Trump using taxes for palaces and golf, after eight years of righteous comparisons of Obama to Bush over the same issue. Trump makes his personal business the taxpayer’s business, and it’s perfectly reasonable to expect him to release his tax returns. Those saying otherwise are basically just boot lickers. It’s one thing to say you voted against the other scumbag and it was a tough choice. It’s another to actually become a fan of the swamp and corruption of either party, just because it’s the ‘right’ party.

    This doesn’t make me superior… it makes me normal. The majority of Americans believe Trump should be ethical and transparent, on tax returns and many other issues. There’s no more moral superiority to asking for honesty than there is in stopping at a stop sign. The guys feeling uncomfortable about the concept of a moral compass are just insecure.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  154. Nope. We’ll be needing a link first. Patting yourself on the back for gossip don’t cut the mustard.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  155. I take it Dustin that you don’t have a problem with what I said. I was passing along a lesson I learned from Bushido. It’s not possible to choose to be brave on the battlefield and not on the Tatami mat. If you’re going to be brave, you have to be brave all the time, anywhere. You can’t choose where you’ll be skilled in the use of your weapons, and where you’ll be incapacitated.

    Because you don’t know when your moment will come.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  156. Not at all Steve. I generally enjoy your comments and you’re clearly a nice guy.

    I never had a chance to learn anything from bushido or anything like that, but I can appreciate the simplicity of a quality revolver.

    Because you don’t know when your moment will come.

    Another reason I urge others to not walk away from right and wrong just because Trump puts Republicans in an awkward position.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  157. I should have said reinforced by Bushido. Bushido isn’t the only code that teaches this.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  158. …and you’re clearly a nice guy.

    I’ve failed. Nice guy doesn’t cut it in the Octagon or on the Seven Seas.

    http://acepilots.com/korea_hudner.html

    Thomas Hudner and Jesse Brown
    US Navy Corsair Pilots, Heroes of the Korean War

    I wanted my successors to be love makers and life takers, not nice guys.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  159. Someone needs to change their tampon, Dustin.

    mg (31009b)

  160. Or do you prefer a kotex?

    mg (31009b)

  161. Australia used to have what was probably the best health care system in the world.

    The hospitals were built by the states and the doctors were paid by what was called “Medicare” and were private. Private patents and welfare patients were treated by the same doctors in the same hospitals and everybody was happy. Surgeons did surgery and let the GPs do post op care, which I thought was problematic but otherwise, it was a great system.

    Then about 1987 Labour ran on a platform that they would pay for healthcare and it would be free. If they were elected, you could just stop paying your Medicare premiums, which were paid at the Post Office, as I recall. They were elected and people stopped paying Medicare.

    The slight problem was that no one had thought about how doctors would be paid. So they weren’t. GPs told their patients, “No tickee no washee.” Surgeons were not paid for a long period.

    Care rapidly deteriorated and I recall stroies in OZ newspapers about patients who had been months with painful kidney stones who could not get care. I don;t know what has happened recently but I doubt it is as good a system as it was before Labour dismantled it.

    Mike K (f469ea)

  162. The monkeys at Sanno Shrine
    Love their little red suits
    I was asked last night to the Ebisu Feast
    Sea bream in the soup
    And sea bream on my plate
    Eat it up yum

    nk (dbc370)

  163. Bushy dos will never lose their appeal.

    nk (dbc370)

  164. Bushido was an elaborate way to control neurotic bullyboys with swords (and to, in fact, induce the neurosis) developed during the Tokugawa period. As a philosophy for a person in any other place and time, it’s about as useful as putting on a wolf skin to sneak up to a herd of buffalo.

    nk (dbc370)

  165. Heads up, mg… https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PwRg_Cqhs6U

    Colonel Haiku (9298f8)

  166. 171: channeling another current Chicagoan “eeewww, furries! Hate them as much as trannies”.

    And more directly to ‘Feets, life shall not be stopped .

    urbanleftbehind (60e229)

  167. babies are so good i like them a lot but i still agree with how Mr. nk said

    you have to let go and let god

    let’s sing a praise song

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  168. Contraception and abortion are so widely different as to almost not belong in the same dictionary.

    nk (dbc370)

  169. Trump makes his personal business the taxpayer’s business, and it’s perfectly reasonable to expect him to release his tax returns. Those saying otherwise are basically just boot lickers.

    That arguable. I think the media makes his business everybody’s business for their own nefarious reasons. Either way it is not “perfectly reasonable” to expect him or any one else in this day and age of identity theft and computer hacking to release any personal information. It is not “perfectly reasonable” for a business person with tax returns intertwined with hundreds of other peoples and companies to release their private information. Finally, in a world of honest and impartial news media it may be considered by some to release personal items but I ask: would you release any of your personal information to these jackals who call themselves journalists today?

    The majority of Americans believe Trump should be ethical and transparent, on tax returns and many other issues.

    The majority of American believe a lot of things that are wrong and the majority of Americans also believe in a lot of things they do not apply to themselves. Ethics have nothing to do with releasing ones taxes and transparency has nothing to do with a man’s income unless he’s under indictment for tax fraud. There is no Constitutional nor legal requirement for Trump to release his taxes to the likes of Maddow, Colbert, Matthews and their leftist associates. If he did he would be a damn fool in my opinion.

    Dustin, what possible good could Trump derive from showing those people his taxes?

    Rev.Hoagie® (630eca)

  170. Hoagie… in America… in THIS country, I’m concerned about anyone who thinks it’s wise to ask ANY American citizen to put their tax return out there for all the world to see. American citizens’ taxes are no one else’s business but that citizen and the IRS. If their has been wrongdoing or fraud, the IRS will seek a complaint and -if warranted – prosecution. That is how things are here, we’re not some banana republic.

    Because here – in THIS country… mouthing off using Democrat and Democrat-operative-with-byline gotcha tactics doesn’t command respect, admiration or add inches to your dick.

    Colonel Haiku (9298f8)

  171. @156 Steve57

    Can you still rent hunting dogs?

    Pinandpuller (5c670b)

  172. Steve57

    The only time I’ve been to MD, Baltimore specifically, was Easter weekend of 2001.

    When the church my BIL was pastoring left the service for a pot luck in the basement an all out Jerry Springer brawl broke out at the behest of a teenage love triangle.

    Never been back.

    Pinandpuller (5c670b)

  173. @159 Dustin

    You just sounded a lot like the public lands people who talk about their millions of acres of land.

    We let other people steward our lands and our collective taxes. Some people suck and some people do OK.

    Honestly, Trump has payed hundreds of millions in taxes and he’s found a way to get some back and benefit thousands of his employees and the communities who have supported his businesses.

    If the president of Chik fil-A did it I’d applaud him too.

    Pinandpuller (5c670b)

  174. Colonel @177. I agree 100% and the President would be a damn fool to put out his taxes. Nobody has to reveal their taxes and anyone who calls for it should go first.

    Rev.Hoagie® (630eca)

  175. For too long, Republican pols stood in line to serve as dutiful tools. Not Trump. Trump’s reflex has always been to blow off the demands of the “Gotcha” crowd. He was the Cartman Candidate after all (“Screw you guys, I’m going home”). It is a healthy reflex and I commend him for it. There’s a lesson to be learned, though I have no faith in the GOP caucus to learn from its own missteps.

    That’s not to say I am unhappy about the “show us your taxes” whining, especially coming after the Rachel Maddow beclowning. I’m not unhappy at all. There seems to be a long line of people who are auditioning to be the next Maddow. Good for them. I hope they keep it up.

    ThOR (c9324e)

  176. You’ll know it’s a good plan if they abolish Medicaid nd pput Mdicaid people into the same thinng that’s for people with incomes just above it.

    Sammy Finkelman (9668e6)

  177. I don’t go in for all this financial disclosure, It’s only used to make false insinuations against non-corrupt people, and never used to make assertions that sink in against truly corrupt people.

    Sammy Finkelman (9668e6)

  178. 126. Kevin M (25bbee) — 5/4/2017 @ 6:16 pm

    This is going to be interesting at the state level, should this come out of the Senate unchanged.

    I would expect an increase in state taxes, especially the sales tax, but maybe they could get some “infrastructure: money and cut down on what the state spends on roads, bridges etc.

    Sammy Finkelman (9668e6)


Powered by WordPress.

Page loaded in: 0.5298 secs.