Patterico's Pontifications

3/12/2017

McCain Calls on Trump to Put Up or Shut Up on Wiretapping

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 1:30 pm



Sen. John McCain was on Jake Tapper’s show this morning calling on President Trump to put up or shut up regarding Trump’s claims last weekend about Obama wiretapping him:

Sen. John McCain said Sunday that President Donald Trump should either retract or substantiate his claim that President Barack Obama wire-tapped him in the final weeks of the presidential campaign and added he expects more to come on Russia’s meddling in the US election.

McCain said on CNN’s “State of the Union” that he had “no reason to believe” Trump’s allegation, which the President has not supported with any evidence and which a White House official said was prompted by a Breitbart article.

“I have no reason to believe that the charge is true, but I also believe that the President of the United States could clear this up in a minute,” McCain told anchor Jake Tapper. “All he has to do is pick up the phone, call the director of the CIA, director of national intelligence and say, ‘OK, what happened?'”

I have said from the beginning that it was my view that Trump fired off a series of tweets with no special knowledge, based on a resurrection of months-old news stories that said, not that Trump or his aides or residence had been targeted by wiretaps, but that aides had been captured on wiretaps — most likely wiretaps targeting Russians. I have seen nothing to change that conclusion, and much since to bolster it. We don’t know what Obama did or didn’t do, but Trump had no secret knowledge. It was just Trump popping off the way he does.

Here’s the video of McCain.

[Cross-posted at RedState and The Jury Talks Back.]

130 Responses to “McCain Calls on Trump to Put Up or Shut Up on Wiretapping”

  1. Media suck-up McCain makes one good point. As I heard him on TV this morning, he said Trump as head of the executive branch has the means to find out the answers to these questions. We don’t need a Congressional investigative. He can just ask the people running the DOJ and related departments to show him the orders for the wire taps and supporting declarations.

    AZ Bob (f7a491)

  2. I agree, AZBob, just like when Obama “made his calls” and found “not even a smidgen” of corruption.

    I should think it wise to allow for the partisan obfuscation that surely exist during each transition between parties.

    felipe (023cc9)

  3. McCain may be right, and he may be wrong.
    But he is an expert on “popping off” about whatever crosses his mind at any given moment if it gets him on camera.

    So he and Trump have a lot in common in that regard.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  4. Not so fast…

    JOHN NOLTE: RussiaGate: Six Months. No Evidence — It’s Time for the Media to Put Up or Shut Up. “The media has not only found less than nothing, what has been found is a Team Trump behaving responsibly and appropriately in their dealings with Russian officials. Best of all, the only real scandal that appears to have been uncovered involves highly-inappropriate Obama Administration surveillance of a political rival, felonious leaks from an out-of-control intelligence community, and an extra-legal federal bureaucracy.”

    https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/259566/

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  5. “JAKE TAPPER AT SXSW: TRUMP REQUIRES MORE FACT CHECKING THAN OBAMA DID.

    Translation into plain English: Now that there’s a Republican in the White House, we don’t have someone to act as a blocking back for, and invite kids on air to sing his praises and ask for socialized medicine.”

    https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/259563/

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  6. Was there fact checking of Obama?

    AZ Bob (f7a491)

  7. Lots of assumptions by Nolte, and while the media needs to answer for their Russian hissy fit That doesn’t absolve Trump from providing evidence of his allegations.

    Sean (84dbdf)

  8. I wonder if McCloud mouth passed the secret questions in a dossier type way to the slime trapper.

    mg (31009b)

  9. Trump does require more fact-checking than Obama did. He lies much more often.

    Jake Tapper used to ask very pointed questions of the Obama flacks when they lied, which they did. I have been around long enough to remember that. Everyone here forgets it.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  10. “This time his wild accusation inadvertently prompted an Obama senior intelligence official to puncture a narrative that was consuming his presidency. Economists call this kind of thing a moral hazard. In politics we call it dumb luck.”

    https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-03-09/trump-s-run-of-dumb-luck

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  11. McCain may be right, and he may be wrong.
    But he is an expert on “popping off” about whatever crosses his mind at any given moment if it gets him on camera.

    So he and Trump have a lot in common in that regard.

    And so the whatabout…whatabout…whatabout…chorus resumes.

    When has McCain ever flat-out accused someone of committing a crime based on zero evidence, and then stuck by it indefinitely?

    JOHN NOLTE: RussiaGate: Six Months. No Evidence — It’s Time for the Media to Put Up or Shut Up.

    The media isn’t the one investigating Trump’s collusion with Russian intelligence. The FBI is; there are three on-going investigations, and they’re not because of anything the media has said. Seventeen different intelligence agencies found convincing evidence of illegal Russian intervention on Trump’s behalf during the election. Then there is also the videotape of Trump instructing Russian intelligence to commit crimes on his behalf and release damaging information on his opponent.

    Dave (711345)

  12. i remember how barack used to promise to get to the bottom of whatever scandal was plaguing his administration and then he never got to the bottom of it

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  13. Speaking of evidence, Dave, care to link to this videotape you claim shows Trump giving ‘instructions’ to Russian intelligence?

    Daiwa (d1d69d)

  14. dave’s still angry that hillary didn’t beat mr donald

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  15. But back to ‘Build the Dang Fence’ Keating 5 McCain – it was a real disappointment when my fellow Arizonans re-elected this hack. I at one time held him in high regard, but he squandered all his credibility long ago and I’m glad he lost his presidential bid, even though I held my nose and voted for him then. He’s a pot calling the kettle black if ever there was one.

    Daiwa (d1d69d)

  16. Trump does require more fact-checking than Obama did. He lies much more often.

    How is it that people can fail to understand this?

    Jake Tapper used to ask very pointed questions of the Obama flacks when they lied, which they did. I have been around long enough to remember that. Everyone here forgets it.

    Jake Tapper vs. Sputtering Bill Clinton

    Jake Tapper Grills Loretta Lynch on her Tarmac Meeting with Bill Clinton


    CNN’s Jake Tapper on Donna Brazile Leak to Clinton Campaign: ‘Unethical’, ‘Horrifying’


    CNN Host Challenges Wasserman Schultz on ‘Rigged’ Superdelegates Process

    Dave (711345)

  17. “McCain may be right, and he may be wrong.”

    – shipwreckedcrew

    He’s almost certainly right, which is what everyone here would like to ignore. The lengths people go to carry Trump’s putrid water are astounding.

    Leviticus (d4d726)

  18. Speaking of evidence, Dave, care to link to this videotape you claim shows Trump giving ‘instructions’ to Russian intelligence?

    Too lazy to Google? OK.

    Dave (711345)

  19. Oh, FFS, Dave. Really?

    Daiwa (d1d69d)

  20. Dave could you repeat that last? It came through garbled due to Hillary’s [edit] being in your mouth.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  21. Sounds like McCain is growing tired of winning, but we knew that from the way he ran his 2008 campaign.

    Fake news.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  22. She tells us there is no deep state. Umkay
    https://www.cnas.org/people/loren-dejonge-schulman

    narciso (d1f714)

  23. “MCCARTHYISM UPDATE: “Rep. Keith Ellison (D., Minn.) claimed on Friday there was collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia, although he admitted he had no evidence to back his claims.” I think Keith Ellison is on the payroll of the Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas, though I admit I have no evidence to back my claims. But I think it needs to be investigated.”

    https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/259585/

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  24. Oh, FFS, Dave. Really?

    Shocking, isn’t it?

    Yet despite his confession on national TV, there are still gaslighters screaming “no evidence”.

    Dave (711345)

  25. Paul Rand, who knows a lot about how the government spies, suggested this morning that the people being listened-in on were overseas, which is perfectly legal for the government to do, and they were /may have been caught talking to people phoning from Trump’s campaign headquarters. He mentioned that Obama himself was recorded on more than 1200 overseas conversations this way.

    Yes, it is a backwards way of spying on Americans calling their KGB handlers in Lubyanka, but if you don’t like it arrange to call your local contact at the public phone of the 7-11, tovarich.

    nk (dbc370)

  26. The methane is strong around this one…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  27. Dave could you repeat that last? It came through garbled due to Hillary’s [edit] being in your mouth.

    It was your guy who supported Hillary, not me.

    Dave (711345)

  28. Drool Alert

    mg (31009b)

  29. narciso (d1f714) — 3/12/2017 @ 4:09 pm

    But she wrote them a secret love letter.

    felipe (023cc9)

  30. “There is no such thing as ‘the Devil’.” – Lucifer

    felipe (023cc9)

  31. The EITC train is up and running after that “extra scrutiny” promised by the current administration (per anecdotes overheard at mass this morning). Jon Hamm saved HR Cockblock for another season. The firm’s founder Henry Bloch attributed his denial of membership at a KCMO country club to antisemiticism (golfer Tom Watson quit that same club afterwards in deference to his Jewish wife). I would think Bloch could get denied because he is pretty close to beyond a direct pickpocket of fellow members due to expertise causing taxes to rise for others (e.g. Illinois house speaker Mike Madigan, an attorney who handles property tax appeals for large landowners).

    urbanleftbehind (a2f607)

  32. McCain being willing to be used by the MSM with seemingly no recognition of such…..

    I’ve seen this movie before.

    Harkin (eb0b95)

  33. The previous administration regarded the taliban more than karzainas allies

    http://ww.weaselzippers.us/329005-afghan-ambassador-compares-differences-between-trump-and-obama

    narciso (d1f714)

  34. Jeez, but if we are going to hold Trump’s statements to a pedantic accuracy test, it’s going to be a long 4 years. Accept that he misunderstands everything technical, or for that matter, detailed, and view his statements as typical of a right-brained person and you’ll be much happier.

    Remember that we’ve had presidents who were anally accurate in presenting their outright lies. Trump has a kernel of truth in his statements, which is more than you can say for Obama or Mr Bill.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  35. Read the circa piece, blind squirrel mensch found one nut, then went all almond joy.

    narciso (d1f714)

  36. And no Trumpkin yet has splained why McCain is not perfectly correct in his assertion that all Trump has to do is order his subordinates in the DOJ, Central Intelligence and the NSA: “Tell me everything”.

    nk (dbc370)

  37. So everyone knew what Trump meant about Hillary’s missing emails from her secret and illegal server except the NYTimes and one commenter? Using a source that openly admitted that they would not cover Trump fairly is never a good idea.

    That story might as well haves ended with HRC saying she approved of the message.

    Harkin (eb0b95)

  38. As usual Trump is three steps ahead of the more…er, plodding thinkers among us.

    We’ll see how this turns out, whether the deep state and it’s supporters prevail over the people’s elected representatives, but personally I think the deep states cheer squad traitorous and however it turns out I think they will die regretting their sympathies.

    Or not, who knows what goes through a useful idiots head when they’re put against the wall.

    Leon (3ad005)

  39. Madness seems to be the default at the basilisk:

    http://streetwiseprofessor.com/?p=10447

    narciso (d1f714)

  40. Three lies ahead. Fast-talking snake-oil pitchman selling to morons. It will catch up to him.

    nk (dbc370)

  41. I’m all for limiting discussion of the Trump-Russia connection to no longer than, say, Trump’s support of birtherism.
    I’d also like to limit any congressional investigations of such to no more than the number of official Benghazi investigations.

    Davethulhu (18ab69)

  42. Cowards hate the courageous.

    McCain was afraid to use Obama’s middle name in his presidential campaign.

    That anyone takes McCain seriously anymore is incomprehensible to me.

    Leon (3ad005)

  43. Maverick has proven himself a knave time and again, occassnally he finds a nut, as with championing the counterinsurgency but that’s almost beside himself.

    narciso (d1f714)

  44. “Cowards hate the courageous”

    This, by the way, explains much of nevertrumpianism.

    Leon (3ad005)

  45. His only other instance,in political life, proves the point, then again maybe certain contributions from. Certain parties explain his last stance.

    My last link is a finance professor at the university of houston

    narciso (d1f714)

  46. The collector of steele’s trash, a little like guin ess’s wormold in our man in havana, was as comfortable in mavericks orbit as with trump

    narciso (d1f714)

  47. Well, yeah, Trump was braver than McCain risking catching VD from the floozies he bought with his daddy’s money. All McCain risked was getting shot down by the North Vietnamese.

    nk (dbc370)

  48. Yes I did say political life, Barry pepper’s portrayal in faithnof our fathers was affecting.

    narciso (d1f714)

  49. Of all the Presidents in my lifetime, Trump is the most blustering coward of all. Even on chutzpah, which is audacity but not necessarily courage, Obama beats him out.

    nk (dbc370)

  50. Good grief it hasn’t been two months nk, give him a year.

    narciso (d1f714)

  51. You know, cowards bluster, bluff and lie. Brave men, in political life, present themselves honestly and take their lumps.

    “But that’s not winnning”, whined the Trumpkins.

    nk (dbc370)

  52. Well, yeah, Trump was braver than McCain risking catching VD from the floozies he bought with his daddy’s money.

    Don’t forget brutalizing helpless women and peeping at naked little girls.

    He was so proud of those “courageous” acts that he bragged about them to strangers.

    Dave (711345)

  53. You’re right. I’m really railing at Leon, not Trump, and I’ll stop.

    nk (dbc370)

  54. I have said from the beginning that it was my view that Trump fired off a series of tweets with no special knowledge, based on a resurrection of months-old news stories that said,

    I think it was based on what Mark Levin said on the radio Thursday night, March 2, 2017, which was picked up by some other media. It took about 36 hours to get to the Donald trump.

    After that Mark Levin repeated his analysis on television.

    Here we can see what the New York Times referred to as Donald Trump’s intelligence briefing last Sunday: (Which he, even so, didn’t understand properly)

    http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/03/05/mark-levin-donald-trump-barack-obama-wiretapping

    Donald Trump probably knew from the start and certainly knows now, that that whole thing – what Mark Levin alleged – is at most only a possibility, not a “fact.”

    Sammy Finkelman (4a6ffc)

  55. 39. nk (dbc370) — 3/12/2017 @ 5:00 pm

    And no Trumpkin yet has splained why McCain is not perfectly correct in his assertion that all Trump has to do is order his subordinates in the DOJ, Central Intelligence and the NSA: “Tell me everything”. I think I read that Trump’s White House counsel told him that would be improper.

    And so he asked the Congressional intelligence committees to check it out.

    Sammy Finkelman (4a6ffc)

  56. When Obama and Luger were busy forcing Ukraine to give up its nukes, where was maverick?

    narciso (d1f714)

  57. If we want to cofrint volodya how about Germany spends enough on its own defense that they don’t have to drill with sticks, now keeping 1 million ‘syrians’ equivalent to 5 million in this country can’t help.

    narciso (d1f714)

  58. What? It was Clinton who negotiated with the Ukraine to give up its nukes. And it was a good thing. Ukrainian politicos are worse gangsters than the Russian oligarchs. They would have sold the nukes to the Arabs.

    nk (dbc370)

  59. Leon@41
    So refusal to be blindly loyal to Trump is treason worthy of the death penalty?

    I have no idea of who you are, where you are from, or how old you are. I was raised during the Cold War, well into adulthood by the time the Berlin Wall came tumbling down. Which means I was bred up to a certain image of the Soviet Union as hostile to our values, working against us with all the tools of propaganda and infiltration it could muster, and now I see Russia ruled by a man who was born and trained in the heart of the Soviet system–and an executive branch that is either too complacent or too naive in thinking he might be our “friend”. It’s easy for me to see the possibility that some people in the “Deep State” see a need to defend us from Russian ploys even if the Executive does not.

    Yet according to you they are traitors who ought to be shot revolution style.

    kishnevi (3734a9)

  60. Well, here we are. Trump tweets about being wire tapped by Obama himself, and suddenly all the apparent gibberish about Trump’s colluding with Russia becomes a muddled message. Expect more of this, I suppose. If there is one thing The Donald knows it is how to manipulate the media. He’s been doing it his whole life. He flipped the narrative du jour fairly easily. All the more impressive given the fact that he deals with a media machine that loathes him, as opposed to their 8 year love affair with Mr. Obama. It’s amusing.

    My problem comes down to one simple thought: this is not how a responsible press or President is supposed to behave.

    As for Trump being more of a lying liar who lies than Obama, thus the dire need to fact check him more stringently than Obama, this cannot have been written by a serious man. If you would care to delve into the shady realms of each man’s actions over the course of a lifetime, and perhaps you should before undercutting your own credibility, I would love to read how you’ve come to this conclusion. And a pithy answer just won’t suffice.

    Estarcarus (cd97e1)

  61. There e are plenty of reasons to distrust the Russians, about 20,000, which is why we don’t off on a rant whenever fancy strikes us, their support of Iran’s nuclear program is one, serving as daddy warbucks to the Castro clan, is yet another, but the previous administration didn’t have concerns about either.

    narciso (d1f714)

  62. And I know about trepov and ignatiev and pobrstdenev, so I really the model volodya is grappling for isn’t appealing

    narciso (d1f714)

  63. Two lawyers had been stranded on a desert island for several months. The only thing on the island was a tall coconut tree that provided them their only food. Each day one of the lawyers would climb to the top to see if he could spot a rescue boat coming…

    One day the lawyer yelled down from the tree, “WOW,

    I just can’t believe my eyes. There is a woman out there floating in our direction.”

    The lawyer on the ground was most skeptical and said, “You’re hallucinating, you’ve finally lost your mind.”But within a few minutes, up on the beach floated a stunningly beautiful woman, face up, totally naked, unconscious, without even so much a ring or earrings on her person. The two lawyers went down to the water, dragged her up on the beach and discovered, yes, she was alive, warm and breathing.

    One said to the other, “You know, we’ve been on this God-forsaken island for months now without a woman. It’s been such a long, long time… So… Do you think we should…well… You know… Screw her?”

    “Out of WHAT ?” asked the other lawyer.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  64. NK

    Some might say McCain downed enough US planes to qualify as a NV ace.

    Pinandpuller (aeb9b4)

  65. .Well, here we are. Trump tweets about being wire tapped by Obama himself, and suddenly all the apparent gibberish about Trump’s colluding with Russia becomes a muddled message

    It is a case of stumbling over himself. A self inflicted wound.

    Because if he hadn’t brought it up, the only story this week would have been Ryancare. Any diversions would be transparent media ploys.

    Instead half the week gets spent confirming the media image of Trump the impulsive blusterer.

    kishnevi (3734a9)

  66. I guess McCain is like the Benjamin Buttons of Karma.

    Pinandpuller (aeb9b4)

  67. Which would you rather:
    1. Win the Medal of Honor and reach the rank of full admiral in the U.S. Navy?
    2. Be the first man on the Moon?
    3. Be President of the United States?
    4. Marry a gorgeous blonde who owns a beer distributorship?

    nk (dbc370)

  68. No. 1 was Stockdale, BTW, also a Navy pilot who was shot down and taken prisoner by the NV.

    nk (dbc370)

  69. Ok, Stockdale was a Vice-Admiral (three stars not four), still ….

    nk (dbc370)

  70. When former FBI counterterrorism agent Tim Clemente told CNN the federal government records (or has access to recordings) of all domestic phone calls, was he lying? Exaggerating?

    If that was accurate, does it affect how we should evaluate Trump’s claim?

    scrutineer (e49623)

  71. Glenn Greenwald is not a reliable source, scrutineer, and neither are his “sources”. In my opinion, he’s a Russian dezininformatsiya

    nk (dbc370)

  72. For all the preening he does, he certainly hasn’t accomplished much.

    askeptic (02878f)

  73. Yes Tim Clemente’s is doggy back when he was whitewashung gitmo detainees, back in the aughts.

    narciso (d1f714)

  74. Greenwald isn’t a “source” except in the sense his article contains the CNN video and partial transcript.

    BURNETT: Tim, is there any way, obviously, there is a voice mail they can try to get the phone companies to give that up at this point. It’s not a voice mail. It’s just a conversation. There’s no way they actually can find out what happened, right, unless she tells them?

    CLEMENTE: “No, there is a way. We certainly have ways in national security investigations to find out exactly what was said in that conversation. It’s not necessarily something that the FBI is going to want to present in court, but it may help lead the investigation and/or lead to questioning of her. We certainly can find that out.

    BURNETT: “So they can actually get that? People are saying, look, that is incredible.

    CLEMENTE: “No, welcome to America. All of that stuff is being captured as we speak whether we know it or like it or not.”

    Transcript of first interview.

    Video of followup interview.

    scrutineer (e49623)

  75. Why I don’t trust him, this is the network for a country where civil liberties are a memory

    ttps://www.rt.com/shows/sophieco/218279-gitmo-torture-terror-cia/

    narciso (d1f714)

  76. 66 – “As for Trump being more of a lying liar who lies than Obama, thus the dire need to fact check him more stringently than Obama, this cannot have been written by a serious man. If you would care to delve into the shady realms of each man’s actions over the course of a lifetime, and perhaps you should before undercutting your own credibility, I would love to read how you’ve come to this conclusion. And a pithy answer just won’t suffice.”

    So much truth here.

    Harkin (eb0b95)

  77. Did Tapper ask McCain about Jeffrey Claude Bartleson? One of you legal people need to inform me what happened in that case. It’s funny how there can be a high-profile arrest reported in the media and then nothing comes after to let you know if the guy stood trial or was released because of lack of evidence or something else. The story just dies after the arrest. Very strange.

    jcurtis (567f3d)

  78. James Stockdale was the bomb.
    Even the nevertrumpers can’t compare to his resume.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  79. Can any Trumpkins?

    nk (dbc370)

  80. McCain out with friends for a night on the town encounters a nervous criminal. It’s a stick up. McCain is the kind of guy who says, “Hey buddy. You got the safety catch on.” gets everyone in his party dead.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  81. Which would you rather:
    1. Win the Medal of Honor and reach the rank of full admiral in the U.S. Navy?
    2. Be the first man on the Moon?
    3. Be President of the United States?
    4. Marry a gorgeous blonde who owns a beer distributorship?

    You can be the President.
    I’d rather be the Pope.
    – The Artist Formerly Known As

    Dave (711345)

  82. As fir CBS star odd slahi last night, there’s a bit they are leaving out, shocker

    narciso (d1f714)

  83. See if this works zulnqh8

    narciso (d1f714)

  84. Err, you guys do know that McCain married a gorgeous blonde who owns a beer distributorship, right? The joke works better if you know that.

    nk (dbc370)

  85. And in more news of the absurd:
    https://mobile.twitter.com/Yair_Rosenberg/status/840976625684602881/photo/1

    Did Alan rickman do the voice of the Marvin like droid on rebels?

    narciso (d1f714)

  86. mccain’s a cowardly trashy disgrace

    i got your pow right here you creepy brainwashed military trash-freak

    right.

    here.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  87. what i like best about john mccain is that he stood up to barack when it counted
    wait
    no he didn’t

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  88. what i like best about john mccain is that he stood up to barack when it counted
    wait
    no he didn’t

    Liar.

    He voted against both Obama supreme court nominees.
    He voted against passing Obamacare.
    He voted to repeal Obamacare.
    He voted to stop Obama’s immigration executive orders.
    He supported blocking Merrick Garland’s nomination.

    “This issue is not about any single nominee — it’s about the integrity of the Court. With less than a year left in a lame-duck presidency and the long-term ideological balance of the Supreme Court at stake, I believe the American people must have a voice in the direction of the Supreme Court by electing a new president.” – McCain on Garland’s nomination, last March

    Dave (711345)

  89. I think where Dave was at 9:27:

    ‘You have nothing to fear from Barack obama’ ambassador Stevens was unavailable to comment.

    narciso (a6bfae)

  90. John McCain is a hero. For his aiirmanship.

    Attention to citation:

    http://valor.militarytimes.com/recipient.php?recipientid=23680

    Distinguished Flying Cross
    See more recipients of this award

    Awarded for actions during the Vietnam War

    The President of the United States of America takes pleasure in presenting the Distinguished Flying Cross to Commander [then Lieutenant Commander] John Sidney McCain, III (NSN: 0-624787), United States Navy, for heroism while participating in aerial flight on 26 October 1967 in North Vietnam. While attacking the thermal power plant at Hanoi, Commander McCain, despite extremely heavy and accurate anti-aircraft fire and more than fifteen surface-to-air missiles in the air, pursued the attack until his aircraft was hit by enemy anti-aircraft fire. Although his aircraft was severely damaged, he continued his bomb delivery pass and released his bombs on the target. When the aircraft would not recover from the dive, Commander McCain was forced to eject over the target. By his exceptional courage, superb airmanship, and total devotion to duty, Commander McCain reflected great credit upon himself and upheld the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service.
    Action Date: October 26, 1967

    Service: Navy

    But he needs to shut up and go away.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  91. John McCain pressed home the attack.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  92. But he needs to shut up and go away.

    Translation: I can’t defend Trump’s syphilitic conspiracy theories, or refute a single thing McCain actually said in the interview, so I’ll just attack him personally for having the integrity to tell the truth.

    Dave (711345)

  93. But he had a great plane.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=10&v=BLMM_jf6Lwc

    “Discovery Wings Great Planes – A-4 Skyhawk”

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  94. John McCain pressed home the attack before I was born.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  95. Translation: I can’t defend Trump’s syphilitic conspiracy theories, or refute a single thing McCain actually said in the interview, so I’ll just attack him personally for having the integrity to tell the truth.
    Dave (711345) — 3/12/2017 @ 10:55 pm

    I never tried to understand this.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  96. McCain Calls on Trump to Put Up or Shut Up on Wiretapping

    John, your ‘call’ was taped.

    “Hellllooo, Mister Wilson!” – Dennis Mitchell [Jay North] ‘Dennis The Menace’ CBS TV, 1959-1963

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  97. 3. Be President of the United States?

    So, how hard can that be, really?

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  98. John McCain is like Mr Magoo, squinting through his bifocals, spraying bullets all over the countryside. Friend and foe alike ducking for cover.
    And YES he could use a double helping of sit down and shut up.

    What a wonderful world it would be if John obliged the democrats to put forward their own increasingly embarrassingly stupid talking point without his assistance.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  99. Translation: I can’t defend Trump’s syphilitic conspiracy theories, or refute a single thing McCain actually said in the interview, so I’ll just attack him personally for having the integrity to tell the truth.
    Dave (711345) — 3/12/2017 @ 10:55 pm

    i
    What are you talking about? I don’t like Trump. I have never liked Trump.
    Back when Trump insulted McCain I was probably first to say, yes, McCain is a hero.

    I dislike John McCain, too. But it’s a fact.

    http://valor.militarytimes.com/recipient.php?recipientid=23680

    That John McCain drove his plane like a stud.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  100. Fact is McCain voted for the NSA to wiretap any and all of us as the mood strikes.

    John McCain: NSA Phone Surveillance Program Is Necessary
    http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/John-McCain-NSA-surveillance-ISIS/2015/05/07/id/643210/

    Not the first time he pissed on the constitution.

    Just the most relevant example today.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  101. And Al Franken could tell a joke or two back in the day. Doesn’t make his a worthy senator.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  102. And Al Franken could tell a joke or two back in the day. Doesn’t make his a worthy senator.
    papertiger (c8116c) — 3/13/2017 @ 1:54 am

    I dispute the notion that Franken could tell a joke.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  103. Fact is McCain voted for the NSA to wiretap any and all of us as the mood strikes.

    Yeah well you’re one of us whether we like you or not.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  104. What a wonderful world it would be if John obliged the democrats to put forward their own increasingly embarrassingly stupid talking point without his assistance.

    What a wonderful world it would be if the President of the United States didn’t invent insane conspiracy theories based on zero evidence and try to pass them off as fact.

    Dave (711345)

  105. What a wonderful world.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWzrABouyeE

    Louis Armstrong.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  106. “ANDREW MALCOLM: Trump is doing what Obama didn’t do.

    Trump has been meeting all along with congressional leaders. Now, he’s had, of all people, Sen. Lindsay Graham of South Carolina over for lunch. Then, Mr. and Mrs. Marco Rubio and Mr. and Mrs. Ted Cruz came for separate social dinners. Social is what Washington calls meal-time lobbying, and what no one expected last year during the primary campaign when Trump mocked those men.

    The other evening the Trump White House had key committee members in for drinks and social bowling. The president will be working that Oval Office phone to Capitol Hill, as he has to many foreign leaders since Jan. 20.

    Trump prefers that personal touch, as he did in his real-estate dealing days, the opposite of aloof. Both he and Mike Pence are holding a series of “listening sessions” with leaders from education, small business, big business, community banks and so forth.

    Somehow, recent encouraging economic news and the administration’s legislative agenda always come up, starting with Obamacare’s repeal and replacement, then tax reform. And most sessions end with POTUS inviting attendees into the Oval Office for a once-rare, much-coveted photo in that fabled place.

    Such focused attention by a president tends to increase support and mute disagreement, while fueling positive word of mouth about him and his plans, almost like an investment in a long-term real estate deal.

    Anybody who’s been in business for almost any length of time understands that they don’t know everything — or they don’t stay in business.

    That aside, you might be having some difficulty reconciling this report of Trump reaching out and listening to the people’s elected representatives — and even to elected foreign leaders — with all that talk about Trump being a Putin-loving autocrat.”

    https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/259637/

    Colonel Haiku (94464c)

  107. @100, you can go back and look. I despised Trump. But it appears I was wrong.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  108. “A powerful mental construct – the liberal myth of a progressive utopia brought about by surrender of the individual to state control – is at risk of being swept away by a great movement to free consciousness from the controlling ideas of the liberal past. As Shelby Steele wrote in a remarkable March 6 op-ed (“The Exhaustion of American Liberalism”), we stand “at the end of something,” that something being the radical mindset that has dominated so much of American intellectual life since the 1960s.

    “The jig is up.” Liberalism no longer possesses the moral authority to control our national politics.

    Liberals are terrified of Trump because they know that their great myth, once the light of consciousness has been shined on it, will dissolve as quickly as a grain of salt in water. As Steele puts it, the “president rolls his eyes when he is called a racist, and we all – liberal and conservative alike – know that he isn’t one.” Elizabeth Warren’s Jeff Sessions rant was just that: a hysterical rant, and everyone knows it. “White guilt,” and all that goes with it, is now just tiresome noise. There is no reality to liberals’ mental myth of the enlightened state. Once it comes under awareness, it dissolves.”

    http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2017/03/the_end_of_the_worldfor_liberals.html

    Colonel Haiku (94464c)

  109. good good you’re back Mr. 57 hope all is well

    today we are besieged by snow but we must persevere for there are many adventures what await today in the city

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  110. kishnevi (3734a9) — 3/12/2017 @ 6:36 pm

    I find this comment, of yours, most satisfying, because it bespeaks of a mind in control of itself. Kishnevi knows himself.

    felipe (023cc9)

  111. For your enjoyment.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Hyn5XGEEso

    “Gangnam Style / Thunderstruck” live by the Third Marine Aircraft Wing Band

    The Arizona band won by unanimous decision the 1941 prize for the battle of the bands. They were killeed to a man.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  112. A fair point, volodya wants the Ukraine and other czarist era constructs like bears,want trout, what’s the best way to hold him off.

    narciso (bb10cb)

  113. Which would you rather:
    1. Win the Medal of Honor and reach the rank of full admiral in the U.S. Navy?
    2. Be the first man on the Moon?
    3. Be President of the United States?
    4. Marry a gorgeous blonde who owns a beer distributorship?

    nk (dbc370) — 3/12/2017 @ 7:29 pm

    That’s a really hard call. I need to step back and think on that one.

    NJRob (43d957)

  114. Just in case you guys think I made all that stuff up:

    1. Admiral James Stockdale was a Navy pilot and POW in Vietnam.
    2. Neil Armstrong served in the Navy during the Korean War.
    3. George H.W. Bush was a Navy pilot in the Pacific in WWII.
    4. You know McCain’s military record.

    nk (dbc370)

  115. “McCain may be right, and he may be wrong.
    But he is an expert on “popping off” about whatever crosses his mind at any given moment if it gets him on camera.”

    This is one of the major reason I was extremely nervous whenever McCain was running for President;

    McCain and Trump both appear to shoot from the hip a lot. McCain appears to do it largely because he likes being called a ‘Maverick’. Trump appears to do it because it keeps his opponents off balance; it’s a tactic that feeds into strategy.

    Not that I’m a huge Trump fan. Yet. The antics of the Progressive Left and the petulant Right are pushing me in that direction, though.

    C. S. P. Schofield (99bd37)

  116. To settle the dispute regarding whether or not Al Franken was once upon a time capable of telling a good joke, can’t we all just agree that he IS a joke?

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  117. Kind of disturbing. I went searching for a Franken joke worth the reprint and found Al Franken’s “McCain joke”, from Salon in year 2000.


    “I doubt I could cross the line and vote Republican. I have tremendous respect for McCain but I don’t buy the war hero thing. Anybody can be captured. I thought the idea was to capture them. As far as I’m concerned he sat out the war.”

    Sounds like Trump copped Franken’s line.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  118. What a wonderful world it would be if the President of the United States didn’t invent insane conspiracy theories based on zero evidence and try to pass them off as fact.
    Dave (711345) — 3/13/2017 @ 2:23 am

    First of all, you are going to have to narrow down which President you are speaking of. Not least since this nonsense started with an insane conspiracy theory based on zero evidence – that Russia “hacked” the election.

    Secondly, given the reporting that has been done, which Trump mangles in his relating of his accusations, his conspiracy theory may be without much evidence but its not insane.

    Lastly, I can find Donald Trump to be incompetent in his allegations and still want McCain to shut up and go away.

    SPQR (a3a747)

  119. 4. You know McCain’s military record.

    nk (dbc370) — 3/13/2017 @ 8:51 am

    Yes, I do. And I respect it.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  120. 125. papertiger (c8116c) — 3/13/2017 @ 12:23 pm

    Sounds like Trump copped Franken’s line.

    I think they probably invented it independently. The thought crossed my mind, too.

    Before the Vietnam War, they never made captured prisoners into the heroes. Prisoners who escaped, maybe, but they weren’t the only heroes. In the Korean war they worried about them being brainwashed (a Chinese Communist term, I read recently) It was something for the Korean War oprisoners just to be considered honorable.

    But Nixon made POWs heroes. This happened, of course, because of all the accusations made against American soldiers by Hanoi’s propaganda, much of which was accepted in some quarters in the United states, Prisoners of War, though, had to be innocent of wrongdoing, at least while prisoer, and at least it got understood they were treated horribly. No one seriously tried to dispute that – I don’t know about the likes of Jane Fonda and Tom Hayden, but I think they at most didn’t talk about them.

    Sammy Finkelman (4a6ffc)

  121. 4. Marry a gorgeous blonde who owns a beer distributorship?

    How about a gorgeous blonde whose family owns a Porsche dealership? I met one on a flight to Germany. I was totally in love about a quarter of the way across the Atlantic. I’ll happily buy the beer if I can make the beer run in a 911 GT3.

    https://www.autoevolution.com/news/porsche-911-gt3-vs-porsche-911-gt3-rs-1-4-mile-drag-race-gets-brutal-116121.html#agal_0

    Her family also owned a lake. Bad news the lake was in Germany. I would prefer a lake in Italy. But if I can have a 911 GT3, Germany will do.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  122. Before the Vietnam War, they never made captured prisoners into the heroes. Prisoners who escaped, maybe, but they weren’t the only heroes.

    What are you talking about? Pappy Boyington was a hero. He was also a POW. The two are separate things. Same with McCain.

    http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Military/2015/0723/John-McCain-s-air-war-over-Vietnam.-And-mine

    “…McCain’s last mission was similar, although the outcome was different. The target was a thermal power plant in Hanoi. McCain knew he was being tracked by enemy radar, but he kept on with the diving attack, pulling off target just as a SAM blew off one of the Skyhawk’s wings, sending the aircraft into an uncontrolled vertical inverted spin. Both his arms and a leg were fractured during the high-speed ejection.”

    As I understand it his plane had already been hit before the SAM blew his wing off.

    There are all sorts of reasons why someone can be a hero and still end up Hors de Combat.

    Someone you should know.

    http://talesofseasia.com/doug.html

    …Now there is a non repetitive exercise in the surface Navy called “going out on deck when big guns are firing”. If the concussion does not blow you over the side it will at least blow out your ear drums. But Doug must have slept though that safety lecture. He doesn’t know what happened. Either not being night adapted, or being without his glasses, or concussion did it, he ended up going arse over teakettle into the South China Sea about three miles off shore with no life preserver, no identification, no nothing. Meanwhile he watched the Love Boat merrily steaming over the horizon, firing at the coastline and never missing him for two days.

    There is not much to do in the South China sea at 0345. He took off his boondockers and hung them around his neck in case he needed them when he reached shore. He stripped off his dungarees, zipped up the fly, tie off the cuffs and popped them over his head, as he was taught, to make a life preserver. He reports back to you that it didn’t work. [He missed the part about old dungarees, with holes, out of the Lucky Bag would have to be kept wet if they were to hold any air at all.] So he put on his trousers, socks and shoes [Sharks? Sea Snakes?].

    Somewhere along the line he had heard that drowning was a “nice way to die”; so he thought he would try it out. He put his hands over his head and down he went – bloop, bloop, bloop. Now both he and I had heard the myth that when drowning you would get cuddly warm, all the nice things in your life would flash by in your mind and you would go to your eternal reward to the sound of music [harp?]. Doug resurfaced and reports back to us that it is all malarkey: there are no movies, there is no music and its colder than Hell!

    …It was a hot summer day when I first met Doug. I was in solitary confinement again. The Communists did not care for me, which was OK because I didn’t like them either. My cell door opened and here was this big moose standing in his skivie shorts [prison uniform of the day]: “My name is Seaman Douglas Brent Hegdahl, Sir. What’s yours?” It is awful hard to look dignified when you are standing in your underwear, knock kneed, ding toed, pot bellied, unwashed and unshaven for 100 days. I automatically recited: “Dick Stratton, Lieutenant Commander, USS Ticonderoga.” Immediately I saw that I probably made a mistake as his eyes rolled back in his head and you could see what he was thinking: “Cripes, another officer!” But notice that instinctively he asked the critical and most important question for survival: “Who is senior?” The rule we lived by was: “If I am senior I will take charge; if junior, I will obey.”

    The Communists took a siesta for two hours every afternoon which was a good deal for us as we were free from torture and harassment. I was laying on the floor on my bed board and Doug was skipping, yes, skipping around the room. I asked: “Doug, what are you doing?” He paused for a moment, looked me in the eye and cryptically said: “Skipping, Sir” and continued to skip. A stupid question; a stupid answer. After a moment, I again queried: “What’ya doin’ that for?” This stopped him for a moment. He paused and cocked his head thoughtfully, smiled and replied: “You got anything better to do, Sir?” I didn’t. He continued skipping. I guess he did learn one thing from boot camp. You can say anything you want to an officer as long as you smile and say “sir”.

    …Because they thought him stupid they would let him go out in the cell block courtyard during the siesta to sweep up the grounds period monitored by only one sleepy peasant guard. I thought that was great since it kept him from skipping and I could get some rest. However, curiosity got the better of me and I started to watch him through a peep hole we had bored in the cell door. He’d go sweeping and humming until the guard was lulled to sleep. Then Doug would back up to a truck, spin the gas cap off the standpipe, stoop down and put a small amount [Small, because it’s goin’ to be a long war, sir.] of dirt in the gas tank and replace the cap. I watched him over a period of time do this to five trucks.

    Now, I’m a liberal arts major who shot himself down, so all I can do is report what I saw. There were five trucks working in the prison; I saw Doug work on five trucks; I saw five trucks towed disabled out of the prison camp. Doug Hegdahl, a high school graduate from the mess decks fell off a ship and has five enemy trucks to his credit. I am a World Famous Golden Dragon [VA 192] with two college degrees, 2000 jet hours, 300 carrier landings and 22 combat missions. How many enemy trucks do I have to my credit? Zero. Zip. Nada. De Rien. 0. Who’s the better man? Douglas Brent Hegdahl, one of two men I know of who destroyed enemy military equipment while a prisoner of war.

    Doug Hegahl. Hero. He was an adviser at FASOTRAGRUPAC when I went through SERE in the early ’90s. I didn’t meet him as he was on vacation but I have the benefit of his knowledge. I never killed five enemy trucks.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)


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